What Marxist-Leninists can learn from Accelerationism 🚀 Infrared Content Catalog

this guy's name is urban maoism

uh i've known him for a little bit on

twitter um

he's part of the uh cave twitter that's

where

cocky came from if you guys don't know

who kaki is shout out

he's one of the original guests of this

show and um

yeah uh i think he also knows ed berg

and

those types of people but this guy's

really based he's really cool

um alright i'm bringing him now hey

what's up man

hello hey man what's up hey what's up

yeah it's all good for sure for sure man

uh how you doing yeah pretty good

um yeah sorry i'm i'm i think yeah i was

just sort of

you know because you know the delay on

the uh on the stream

yeah uh we should get the show about you

know i want to sort of talk about the

anglo-saxon stuff and the normans and

the conquest and

doomsday at a later date you know we

don't need to get that shit ironed out

you know

yeah yeah we got it yeah it's it's been

everything pretty much is my fault when

it comes to scheduling anything

hey man don't worry about that man i've

been like that's the thing like i've

been seeing the way you've been sort of

going along this like uh

this this this tendency sorry this

trajectory and i feel like

i didn't want to sort of intrude on it

you know like i like what you've been

doing and i like this

sort of like the the way things have

been going but like this is why i wanted

to come on tonight because like

i saw you sort of i tuned in whilst you

were sort of like you know

like having a kind of uh you know like

seeing like becoming kind of like

pessimistic or seeming you know it

seemed like a little bit pessimistic and

i feel like you know

we got to hold the line a little bit you

know like we got to make sure we don't

fall into any kind of pessimism you know

we got to stay optimistic you know

yeah i agree i agree yeah i mean the

topic that we wanted to talk we're going

to talk about is

uh is gonna be super in-depth and uh

i myself wanted to like prepare some

things to talk about it too because uh

it's gonna be about the origin of the

anglo meme but

the meme is on the surface misleading

because

um well i don't want to spoil it but

we'll uh

yeah just to sort of entice the fucking

the chat a little bit i just want to say

like um you know

the people who call themselves

anglo-saxons today you know the

whites anglo-saxon protestants you know

they're sort of like the wasps

these people are not anglo-saxon okay uh

what you understand you know as

americans and even as english people you

might be watching and people across the

world

what people understand is anglo-saxons

what has been taught to you is what

anglo-saxon means

is not at all what anglo-saxon means it

is something which is a complete

uh fabrication a complete uh room sort

of

um a vulgar romantic uh version

of anglo-saxon society which is grounded

in a post-norman conquest ideal

uh but yeah i don't want to spoil too

much yeah yeah and i think um

it'll really help allow us to clarify

like what we're talking about when we

talk about the whole anglo thing you

know on show so

yeah um

but uh anyway um i think there was a few

things you wanted to

yeah i i just all i wanted to sort of

talk about is that like i think that you

know people

i saw like whilst you were talking and

you were sort of you know really like

you know

sort of bearing your heart out you know

to people uh in the stream and i saw a

lot of people in the chat sort of just

like

kind of repeat like slogans and kind of

just sort of like

chat like it normally is but i feel like

you were trying to get at something

there you know like people are kind of

i feel like a lot of people kind of

missing the point of what you were

trying to say there and i think like

it's really important that we realize

that like you know we need to

we do need to hold a line and we do need

to show ourselves as kind of a have a

strong face and

have a strong sort of um presentation

towards the world and towards the sort

of

internet left and all the rest of it but

at the same time we need to like sort of

have the moment to sort of take a step

back and analyze ourselves right and i

think it's really like

you know you you you you and like sort

of the

the collective viewing for collective in

general like you're very good at like

sort of them trying to kind of

communicate new ideas and very

interesting ideas

through a lens which is pre-established

and through a continuity which is

re-established and i think it's very

important

and it's good work i'm sorry pardon me

it's very good work that you're doing

you know i think it's very important

work actually

um but i think that people in in the

community need to sort of like

i don't know sort of like engage with

the kind of um

lesson the kind of sloganeering lesson

the kind of like i like the whole you

know gorillas and sons and all the rest

of it you know it's good shit it's fun

shit

it's very good it's good to get the

energy up but i feel like

sometimes like we need to you know slow

down a bit cool down a bit you know read

engage discuss study i don't know i feel

like a lot of it like

we can fall too easily into this kind of

like um

advertising and slogan hearing and

propaganda without the substance

or you know that i think really backs it

up you know and that's what

what's interesting about infrared as a

phenomenon really is something which is

um

gets across new ideas and new meaning

and and and gives like meaning to

something which is

you know yeah been there for a long time

but it's not really

you're not really reached into the

surface you know what i mean sorry this

is the thing

it's 3am right now and i'm a little bit

drunk so bear with me

yeah i mean yeah i understand what

you're saying i mean um

we definitely gotta return to kind of

maybe not exactly the way it was in the

past of infrared but

we definitely do have to start

dropping more pills so to speak and um

yes uh

i've just you know i've kind of talked

about why i've been hesitant to do that

but i realize now that i gotta

i gotta get with the program you know i

just can't

i can't let the haters define me

entirely

you know they're inevitably gonna define

a little bit about me but

i can't let them have everything you

know

yeah that's the thing man i mean you

know you're totally right

saying you know your enemies always

define you and that's the thing like you

know

like your enemies will define you until

you win you know like

until you win your enemies will always

define you and that's the thing

you got to always push on to win and

that's the thing that's the the victory

is you know it it seems very like you

know hard to see it seems very sort of

like clouded right

but it will happen it will happen i do

think so

it's like i you know personally like i'm

you know i'm sort of interested like i

don't know i find myself in a kind of

crisis of uh politics uh right now and

in general just sort of all the time

just because it seems very you know

cloudy and um

impossible to really delineate these

things in like real meanings right you

know in terms of like

left right you know marxist socialist

communist

it seems very hard to sort of pin these

things down and ground these things in

reality when

uh reality seem you know seems to sort

of slip away from you all the time you

know like all these things seem to slip

away constantly

and all these words and all these

phrases and all these symbols and images

seem to sort of like

always like collapse in on themselves

and become sort of parodies of

themselves

but i think it's you know it's it's it's

like i used to be

you know i used to be for quite a long

time a member of a

marx islamist political organization and

i found like

just the kind of the lack of creativity

and the lack of um

an ability to engage properly with um

the dynamics of uh

you know sort of with this like

approaching and approaching post-modern

life you know

approaching post-modern condition like

even these these phrases are very hard

to say you know if we are living in a

sort of

post-modern world or whatever you know

it's like

it it i just feel like a lot of marx

lemonists in the west um

have been unable to sort of face the

future right

like face the world that we're living in

the face the world we're coming into

and i think what sort of made me sort of

uh you know

really engage and really enjoy your show

is the fact that you were sort of

uh uh you know not it's not just a sort

of question of updating something that

already exists right but

actually introducing new meaning and new

new ideas and

and viewing these things into like a

real uh something which is

as you say you know worthy of uh of the

post-modern world right like worthy of

the contemporary world

yeah i mean um a lot of people don't

know this as well but um

a lot of us started out in the same way

we at first we were naive

western ml's of some kind and then we

went through that kind of

phrase of um

seeing that it was just too dogmatic and

too rigid and too inadequate

but now it's kind of full circle because

i think we've come to appreciate that

the way that the meaning of marxism

leninism has been dictated

in the west uh

the the meaning of that that

uh word phrase marxism leninism for the

countries in which it has been

it has actual history and authority

um it's completely different it means

something completely different there you

know

and the west westerners have not done a

good job of actually translating what it

means

into the west and that's why when we

think of marxism leninism as westerners

we do think of those kinds of really

rigid dogmatic

you know people who

very interestingly you know they they

posture about

being simple and concrete and all the

things all the ideas you and i acquaint

ourselves with and explore

are just nonsense and you know

meaningless

bourgeois eclecticism or something

but but in order to posture about having

a

simplistic and crude you know

position you have to show for it in

reality

and western marxist leninists do not

have much to show of

at all in terms of what right completely

i mean like you know the the western

marxist feminism to me seems like it's

sort of like

i don't know like sort of some of the

things i've been thinking of recently it

feels like it's kind of like

you know like i know you sort of you

chat shit about like kajev in the past

right but like

the way kojev writes about hegel right

it seems like he's kind of like

turning hegel into this like atheistic

like uh this like inversion of the

kingdom of god

right you know sort of like creating

this like fucking like esheton this like

perfect state right and i feel like

a lot of marxists kind of like read like

in marks or

a lot of them don't read marks or

whatever you know but like read around

marxism

um towards this idea of like the sort of

idealized kingdom of god on earth right

this kind of like

eschatological communism and it just

feels like it's you know one of the

things i'm really refreshed by in terms

of your content right

is is you're the first person i've seen

in like proper marxist leninists you

know who goes by the

the the you know the tradition he goes

by the actual tradition who says that

like

communism is the real movement actually

means it you know like

a lot of people sort of use these

phrases and use these terms but it

actually doesn't have

a real meaning behind it because it the

theoretical like backing does not

actually support that you know

like uh yeah and and communism you know

communism is not

the eschaton right like communism is not

heaven you know

communism is basically like it's it's

it's it's part of the process of history

you know it's not this like

it's not this like echological fucking

end point right it's like it's a

it's something far far greater than that

you know as much as that sounds strange

to say that

there can be something greater than that

you know and the problem though is that

you know a lot of westerners especially

bread tube when they're using these

phrases like communism or socialism

they're pretending to use them with

authority as though

someone has sanctified their specific

meaning of those words

but when i ask them to show me anywhere

in marks where

you know their dogma dogmatism can be

justified

they always come up short um yeah

and you know it's it's it's it's

ultimately coming back to this thing

where if we introduce this kind of

darwinian environment of

no assumptions and the best meaning will

have to

prevail um

to clarify that what i mean is that um

if we strip the pretense to authority

these type of bread tube and even as

established ml's in the west have over

words like socialism and communism

and you know introduce this you know

environment where people will actually

have to

explore the meaning of these words and

actually have to persuade people as to

which meaning makes the most sense

uh based on what we know about history

these people won't survive

they just won't um you know

uh it's it's ultimately the fact that

the meaning of socialism and communism

is no authority exists

which just you know just makes that

meaning

self-evident and uh

may especially there's no authority that

can that sanctifies one specific

definition as eternal and true there

just

isn't an authority i think people are

struggling to understand that there's no

knowledge authority when it comes to

these words you actually have to do the

work

of trying to make sense of them

right i mean something that i think

that's you know something that's that i

think you know

something i gleaned from being a sort of

i suppose an activist and a marxist

learners group for a long time was the

fact that like

i i started to understand as time went

on that like right so we need to sort of

think about what a capitalist is right a

capitalist is somebody who is actively

sort of in command of production right

so necessarily right to be a communist

somebody is trying to sort of

uh uh move towards uh the you know to

move towards the

the the sublation of capitalism right

you you sort of like

you have to be active right you have to

be actively engaged in that struggle you

have to be actively pushing for that

struggle whatever that might mean and

however that might materialize

right but it's about like the active

movement right the real movement right

it's something i think this is like the

powerful like what i think is

interesting and powerful about

sort of your your your phrasing of like

um mark's mentalism in the age of

multi-polarity right it's a recognition

that you know we are no longer um you

know with with the hyper connectivity of

the world and with the sort of

uh the the the the massive rapid

transformation of communication

technology um and also just you know

exchange et cetera et cetera

uh we have sort of now come face to face

with the fact that

you know like our world can no longer

really be defined just by the sort of

local place that we used to you know

we used to define the world by and like

our kind of like the the

what we engage in is becoming more and

more of a choice right in terms of like

we have more and more sort of free

freedom in regards to how we engage with

the world in such a strange way right

like and i think you know the the how

how china sort of like um and basically

china and russia etc

how they sort of present um themselves

to the world so i'm i'm probably

rambling right now i am

no you're not please i do apologize for

that don't worry yeah but yeah i i think

you know it's like the way sort of china

and russia have had their

incredibly long and incredibly rich

histories of um political uh uh

movement and politic and economic

movement right like we we no longer have

the sort of luxury

of being separate from them right

because of how hyper-connected the world

is and how

integral actually china is and

specifically china to the world economy

and to the western markets and

and also russia now to the political um

uh uh sort of the political scene

especially in the american context and

in the british context it's less so but

again

we had the uh the would you call it um

the scribble case right in england um we

had all

that bullshit go on right like russia is

integral to to our experience in britain

as well in the same way that china is

uh to england and america and the rest

of the world and also how russia is to

america in terms of the russian bots

problem right like

we no longer sort of have the kind of

like how hyper-connected we are it's

it's you know it's something that like

has been developing

and brewing for a long time but it's

specifically heightened during the cold

war

um and something which we sort of were

like allowed to forget or allowed to

sort of

re re-mystify i suppose against like you

know to sort of like re

border ourselves from i suppose like

from you know

during the kind of like 1990s the kind

of victory of the west over the rest of

the world

uh supposedly like we were sort of able

to sort of push up these barriers again

whilst

constantly expanding constantly

interconnecting constantly globalizing

and sort of bridging all these gaps and

borders together like you know and

breaking down these barriers

and now i think the people who you know

were profiting so much from that sort of

disintegration of barrier

are now trying so hard to create

artificial barriers

in strange places and strange ways to

reassert their authority and i just i

really you know

i think they're kind of they're they're

fumbling you know they're fumbling at it

you know

yeah i mean um that's that's the perfect

way to put it and i really

think it's interesting the angle you're

coming from is is the angle of hyper

connectivity whereas a lot of people

assume multi-polarity maybe means more

disconnect

but you have to think dialectically it

also actually

entails uh more hyper connectivity so i

really like you put it that way

another thing i um kind of uh remembered

you said

was about that if we're communists it

means we're somehow

actively relating to the real movement

communism and you know a lot of people

say how could you be a communist with a

capital c

when you're not part of a formal

communist party because that's the

meaning of you know being a communist

and also

being a party within the orthodox

marxist leninist perspective

is the primary means by which an

individual can establish an active

relation to the real movement

but the way i put it basically is that

this is going to be like such the

biggest bullshit cop-out but i genuinely

believe

this you have to think about what how

land

thinks ai has relevance for time

basically that there's something in the

future reassembling

the past in real time the same thing is

true for what it means to be a communist

today i think i think that's

absolutely that's the significance for

me of cp usa

2036 and 2036 is an arbitrary

year it's just denotes of course it's a

big number it's a big number which means

future

right exactly precisely precisely i just

thought that the number for some reason

just

worked the best for that sounds

fantastic man i mean it's like

you know and of course you can see this

in real time like how this number has

meaning because you see people

you know they hear the you know cpu and

say 2036 is like yeah fuck it out see

the usa tell me 36. you know like they

you know

people agree with it i agree with it i'm

not even american i agree with it you

know

like i think it's sick it's fucking sick

yeah um and that's the thing people need

to really go back and fucking

um watch the first episode of infrared

right like that's like the

the thing i'll say to the chat is go and

watch the first episode with infrared

with

uh with with cocky duty like watch that

thing that's

i mean some of the fucking stuff you

discuss in that is fantastic

it's fantastic like it's really great

conversation

and i think you know this is the thing

you were talking about earlier with the

kind of the way infrared has changed i

really i think you know

you you need to i i really i think both

of them have

absolutely equal uh value right

absolutely equal merit

i think you may perhaps you know to give

perhaps you know the smallest bit of

criticism perhaps you can sort of

synthesize it

in a better way or whatever you know i

don't know like it's not for you to work

on that i

know i i agree with that 100 it's

yeah i i need to focus on actually

in at least um accelerating the

dialectic between them

you know and putting that dialectic to

work you know because

yeah i think at this point maybe i've

kind of deviated too

far from it but you know cocky to me

represents a corner of the internet

that i think needs to be given

um needs to be given popular

representation

um like and we need we need to be up to

this promethean task

of distilling but not

uh erasing or forgetting because there's

obviously things that the layman is not

going to be able to understand

from you know the whole cave twitter

crowd or whatever but there's

so many brilliant people in that crowd

and i don't wanna i know everyone hates

being flattered but i would consider you

among them

there's so many brilliant people from

that crowd who

who um people just don't know about and

they should know about and uh

i think there's something maybe if

there's anything insane about

what we're doing at infrared i think

it's basically this idea that

we can actually confront bread tube with

this

and if you know about cave twitter you

know how like

fringe and just i mean comparatively

fringe and i mean it's called cave

twitter you know

yeah as a broad bro it's also dead right

i mean this is the best thing about

caves to it it's completely dead

and it's like but it still exists you

know it's it's dead but like there's

there's still people who are active who

are associated with

the whole thing you know yeah

no these circles still exist and he's

like sort of like you know these little

groups and these little groupings and

these like

connections still exist they get lost

over time and the actual name has been

like

lost to time but yeah i i think it's

kind of funny to think about this like

yeah this is this guy i was you know i

said this other day onto it you know

like there's a conference

it's kind of like a confrontation

between like um brett even cave twitter

you know like gave to it as kind of

i just find it fascinating that the

people have broken out into

from the cave to it i think of course

you've got people like matt matt

calcuhoon

it's in a gothic and all that who sort

of made name for himself as the kind of

um

the the the fisher scholar right like

you know and other people like that but

um yeah i think people you know like

like like fucking edberg and his like um

his work with campbell and i mean oh my

god like campbell's like sort of um

transformation from like the probably

the best frog twitter guy

to being like the best sort of postcard

with a guy or whatever you know it's

like it's it's fantastic like it's

amazing to see these things happen

but like to see ed burke sort of like

you know and yourself as well and with

infrared like you know to see these kind

of like um

you know what what i mean out of cave

twitter funnily enough is the kind of

like tanky side of it right is the kind

of neotanky side of it

the people who kind of you know the

marxist leninist and the the sort of

like futurists

um side of cave twitter it's like

optimistic you know the optimistic side

of cave twitter

is the one that's coming out not the

kind of pessimistic

like landian like zeno fucking feminist

bullshit like the kind of you know i

want to just live in a hole and be

degenerate kind of like shit you know

like

the people actually like no i want to

affirm humanity and i want to be

i want to be alive i want to be a human

being like and i want to be a communist

first and foremost i think that it's

fantastic that that is what's breaking

through

you know back in the the glory days of

like 2017

and 2018 when i think that was the peak

right or maybe i was too late

totally yeah um once i was also like i

was also late to the game

oh okay yeah nice um

yeah it's good uh but um

one of the things i noticed was that

some one thing that confused me because

i

i had views that preceded my encounter

with uh

cave twitter i think you know i had been

a zizekian

vaguely a different type of zizekian

than most

but one thing that kind of confused me

was that

there was an association between

optimism so to speak or um

maybe the the revolutionary clinical

position and a type of naive

super naive tech bro optimism of silicon

valley

which was associated with the l left

accelerationists

and at first i was confused but when i

actually read and engaged with the left

acceleration is

i realized why they had such a bad rap

because they kind of were

that that naive but

to me the kind of big capital c

communist optimism from the 20th century

and stalinism and maoism and so on

bore nothing in common with the naive uh

silicon valley kind

it was an optimism that acknowledged and

but at the same time

persevered to what we would consider the

darkest and most

pessimistic nihilistic uh moments of

despair that that

humanity faces i mean they weren't they

were

i guess in a sense optimistic but they

were by no means

naively so so but one of the things i i

i mean we all it's it's a dead

trend but one of the things i

appreciated about the you know

landian pessimism uh maybe maybe even

the one that was unique to nick land

himself

was that at the very least it

acknowledged the bottom

of the pit like the lowest moment of

despair

that a human being can face as as given

expression

ideologically and politically and

theoretically

um i appreciate it because uh

once you put that into reality

i can finally look at that and say we

can

overcome that we can persevere through

that

totally totally i think the greatest

like

nick land is a gift to marxists on like

multiple levels right

like gifts to anyone who wants to

critique capital on many many many

different levels he's a fantastic writer

on many levels but

one of the most important levels of that

i think is the fact that something for

marxists and i also think christians and

and religious people in general

uh muslims christians etc to to sort of

like to resist against in a certain way

you know to actually overcome in a way

which is actually like

uh authentic you know to take what is

there and to to basically

turn it against him you know like land

wants to sort of

override humanity completely right i

mean his whole like meme is that he what

he sides with the productive forces

against the people

right yeah you know like i i i think

it's like

and you know and on a certain level it's

like i think you know

i do have my sort of my my moments and

my sort of points where i'm like ah well

you know i have a sort of a massive like

kind of you know reactionary uh impulse

you know

all the people who hate me on twitter

you know listen to this you know this

will give you a lot of ammunition but

you know

like i have my sort of reactionary

impulses where i think like yeah fuck it

man i just i just love human beings i

hate technology blah blah blah you know

like

but that is another form of nihilism at

the end of the day it's a complete form

of nihilism

you know like this is the thing you know

what's been great you know like sort of

watching your show is it sort of it's

made me lazy you know

you you you you guys have already sort

of kicked me up the ass it's like okay i

have time to actually fucking read heidi

you know properly like actually read

heidegger and it's like oh my god what a

revelation you know what a fucking

revelation

like it it it's truly broadened my

perspective immensely in terms of how a

human being relates to

themselves and and and to the world you

know

and yeah that that's his aside anyway

um i think land um i consider him one of

the most brilliant

thinkers in the canon of marxism

and i've always viewed land as

a challenge and those marxists

in the west i mean i don't think chinese

intellectuals have to care about

land so to speak but those marxists in

the west

who cannot face who cannot um

face land's challenge i consider them

the epitome of hypocrisy and uh

weakness and sterility i mean i would

much rather

have a guy like nick land who gives

expression

openly and honestly theoretically uh

to all of the most pessimistic

despair that dwells within our heart

then then a lot of you know so-called

marxists and socialists and obviously

bread two

types who do give expression to this

ugliness

and wickedness and bitterness and

nihilism

but very indirectly and passively and um

unconsciously uh it's like almost like

in a way

you just have to watch someone like vosh

to get the same feeling of despair than

when you read land

but the difference is that the land is

open and honest about it and he actually

makes sense of it in some way

theoretically and

owns up to the challenge it poses to us

as human beings whereas even though land

surrenders to the challenge

and embraces it

but i also uh really agree with you when

you said

the the position against technology is

the other side of the same

coin it's just as uh it's also

nihilistic

[Music]

but you know at the same time um it's

also extremely reductionistic

to kind of i i hate the kind of

people who think like lawyers and just

try to dig dirt on others and be like oh

well you were flirting with this and

joking around with it

and that means you wholly identify with

it and it's just

obviously we all have reactionary

tendencies and we all

entertain different you know we're

we are we all have a spectrum

but not maybe yeah okay yeah i'm not

ableist

sorry guys don't cancel yeah

i mean you're totally i mean you know

it's the thing that is really refreshing

about people on the sort of cave twitter

end of things compared with other kinds

of like um

sort of i don't know like sort of like

cd scenes that exist

uh on the internet right and political

and philosophical scenes or whatever the

fuck like it's you know cringe to talk

about this shit or whatever

but like you know the thing that is

interesting about cave tourism is

actually engaging about it is people are

more open

to discuss like ish jews let's say like

you know what is the actual

importance of like you know the eurasian

movement right like what is the actual

importance of like uh people from as

disparate as like how can leftists

interact with

uh uh nick land how can you know or like

how can people of a sort of

socialist or communistic sort of like a

tendency interact with land and interact

with dugan

interact with these strange uh sort of

post-modern figures who represent

something which

to the sort of like uh more boring you

know

uh marxist more boring leftists is just

this kind of like terrifying like you

know oh no it's uh

it's not modernist it's not like uh

within my very strict frame it's not

within this like very cool you know cozy

20th century model that i've constructed

around myself or this like

you know to broaden it to this like very

cozy post-french revolutionary model

right like

you know these people who sort of seem

to repudiate everything that i've you

know thought about and everything i

think and

all of my modern history or whatever

like the feeling that's good about cave

twitter and the thing that's good about

these kind of you know tendencies and

these kinds of like

scenes is that they are actually open

you know i had a great discussion the

other day with some people

uh about you know why i think that like

um

uh uh you know the the russian radical

scene right radical politics is

like an indication of the breakdown of

of like um

of modernism right and like you know in

russia you have like uh

on the one hand obviously the national

bolsheviks that everyone fucking hops on

about

you have other movements you know you

have rneu you have all these different

movements and you know

mars all these fucking little strange

tendencies strange groupings and things

uh which in their like in in their

language and their symbolism sort of

combined the entirety of their own

nation's history in itself right like

you have combinations of like you know

the the the sort of like the imperial

eagle with the hammer and sickle with

like sarah nicholas and stalin

and you have all these sort of

combinations and convergences and i

think it's really like an attempt i

think to sort of like

this is not something that's fully

formed yet i'm still trying to sort of

work this out and like write some stuff

on it but like

um so you know watch this space or

whatever but like you know it's like i

i think it's sort of really trying to

like create a new language right i think

it's like people are trying to sort of

through like sort of assembling and kind

of like experimenting and you know

alchemically experimenting with like all

this like old language and this old

forms these 20th century forms

really trying to break through i mean

like something that caleb talks about

all the time

and and to the good reason is the fact

that like in china

now um mao and confucius are taught side

by side

you know and that's such a significant

thing that's such a significant thing

that people just don't

just discuss you know and feel like

again i like caleb for this because he

discusses it and he realizes how

important this is you know

like the civilizational importance of

this like it's something which

draws together a sort of a consistent

thread throughout all of history right

as a way to kind of break through into

the new world that is coming you know

the new reality which is coming

which is which is going to you know

which is materializing more and more as

like

we sort of flow towards like out like

disintegration more and more and more

and more there are forces in the world

which are actively trying to be

ready for it and to sort of present

themselves to it and and use everything

that has been learned

uh not falling into dogmatism and not

falling into sort of

weird little like axioms and weird

little codings and things like this as a

way to kind of like defend themselves in

themselves against it right

we're trying to you know as i think you

you have the right language for this to

be

worthy of it right like i think it's

something that you see in russia

specifically and in russia

and in china specifically right like the

in the west we've kind of been sort of

caught up in in in rejecting right is a

way as a sort of

coping mechanism a defense mechanism and

i think it's really dangerous for

for westerners to kind of act like this

because it means that like you know

you know like as much as you know we

like to sort of talk on you know harp on

about like how great china is like

there are great things in in in i don't

you know believe in western civilization

as a universal like total thing right of

course there's many different

western civilizations right like england

is a civilization right

like you know france et cetera germany

there are many different forces

civilizational forces you know they

exist right

and and and they they should they

deserve and they need to sort of

confront

the the new world the coming world in an

authentic way

and i think you know russia is just

ahead of the curve on this right i feel

like

i mean you know when lenin talks about

like the sort of the weak link in the

imperialist chain right i think there's

a kind of similar dynamic going on right

where

where russia is kind of like the weak

link in the post-modern chain

but i mean that's like a massive suit

right now you know but like i think it

kind of

is you know yeah a few things um you

said a lot of really interesting things

the last thing you said i think you know

i always try to emphasize this

um to me learning from china isn't about

copying uh chinese culture but it's

actually

about learning learning about how we can

reconcile

the the popular and national realities

of our own specific countries and their

histories and

their traditions how we can rediscover

those things

after modernity and that does apply

to the west as well especially europe

and

uh obviously uh obviously also the uk

as much as we have the anti-anglo meme

you know

the uk is full of uh real national

realities

among which include the english reality

reality of the english people

um yeah and these are

this is uh there is here a civilization

uh real history and civilization it's

just that

uh after this period of modernity that

civilization has been

exclusively defined in the outward form

by colonialism and imperialism and so on

but there are latent forces

latent national realities that have long

been forgotten even within the west

that i think uh only the chinese

model provides an example of right now

to exhume exhume sorry if i'm saying

that correctly

to unearth you know and rediscover

um and uh another

america is a little bit more complicated

though because america is not really a

nation at all

but that's i guess a separate

conversation but um another thing you

mentioned was about

russia and literally my own thoughts

personally and also

in our collective it's it's literally

like we're

we've arrived at the same thing

completely independent from each other

because

actually also that way of describing

rush of

all of these seemingly amorphous and

um chaotic as you put it alchemical

combinations between different forms

as a way as a way in which this

deeper striving to break out of

classical modernity

is being given it's exactly how we're

looking at it as well and actually

russia specifically um

uh russia specifically has a unique

way of giving expression to that that

very contradiction between

uh forms which i've located

in theological terms of the

specificities of

russian orthodox christianity to me

just to elaborate a little bit more

about this to me the same contradiction

you're describing whether it's the

national bolsheviks and all the other

types of crazy

contradictory syncreticisms and stuff

this fundamental dwelling within paradox

and contradiction i think you can even

find this in the novels of

a guy like nabaco what's his name nabak

the guy who wrote lolita

but he also loves a guy yeah he also

wrote another novel

uh pale fire pale fire

and it's about the same thing it's about

this dwelling in contradiction

um which which was the emblem of the

russian empire the double-headed eagle

and what is that if not the

contradiction

east and west right and then it's not a

coincidence

that's fascinating the soviet union the

hammer and the sickle the peasants who

represented the eastern

russian national kind of tradition and

then

the hammer which represented the kind of

western modernity

so russia i fee i think has always

related to the fundamental contradiction

and in hegelian terms the contradiction

is the absolute

object it's a contradiction each

civilization just relates to it

differently but the way

russia specifically relates to it is

through this type of dwelling and

freezing specifically

freezing the contradiction in time and

then dwelling

in not the form of the contradiction but

the contradiction in the form if that

makes i

i myself sound ridiculous without saying

this but

but how i put it better of course we

have to sound ridiculous when we talk

about these things you know because it's

a

ridiculous subject matter right i mean

like postmodern versus identity is

ridiculous like

yeah of course of course um

i think it's really interesting what

you're saying about orthodoxy though

right i mean because like the orthodox

russian orthodox church like it grounds

itself on this kind of like adoration of

the church fathers right

it grounds itself on this idea that it

is like the

true church which finds its lineage

right back to the foundation of jesus

christ right and it sort of

it goes right back to the church far as

it grounds itself not so much as the

catholics do

the thing about the catholics that

fascinates me is the catholics kind of

sort of ground themselves on this like

legal document essentially right

that like essentially like the you know

the the emperor sort of

gave to to the pontiff like the dominion

over rome and all this stuff but it

turned out to be a complete forgery

right whereas

the russian orthodox church doesn't rely

on this the russian orthodox church also

doesn't rely on a pontiff you know

it has multiple patriarchs and and you

know whole

very very dynamic uh ecumenical

hierarchy

um in relation to like all the

metropolitans and and

and the patriots and all that stuff but

it grounds itself on like this intense

like ritual this intense like asceticism

you know and this like

the desert fathers and this kind of like

removal

against in a way and you know from from

um

from the world right and it is this kind

of like you know like you know that um

that zine that was created by those

american uh converts to russian

orthodoxy uh

uh sort of death to the world um you

know it's this sort of like

and it typified it comes from a quote

from i can't remember which church

father it was but one of the church

fathers

who basically was saying like yes you

know like uh uh the world

means pleasure worldly pleasures the

world means like you know these kind

yeah you know

christian stuff all the rest of it you

know but yeah it's it's interesting you

know like

orthodoxy kind of grounds itself much

more in this kind of the contradiction

between the hebrew and the hellenic

traditions right in a way which

catholicism does not as much openly

confront right or openly discuss

whereas you see in in russian orthodoxy

i don't know so much about greek

orthodoxy

to be said i don't know much about it

but i do know a little bit about russian

orthodoxy in this regard like

it grounds itself much more in this kind

of contradiction in this strange

uh relationship between the hellenic and

the hebrew right and and certainly i

think science more with the hellenic in

this regard right it's much more sort of

like platonic

um in in its attitude towards faith um

you know if my flatmate hears that he's

a proper christian he'll probably give

me shit for this because it's probably

some

incorrect interpretation but you know no

uh

everything i know it's it's it's precise

about russian orthodoxy

it is precisely that contradiction it is

the contradiction

um between maybe um the old testament

metaphysics which i think orthodoxy is

still grounded within

and yeah

and then um hellenism which

well let me clarify what i mean by that

i think

by the old testament metaphysics i mean

the kind of

almost demyergic kind of almost

spinoza-like view of the imminence of

material imminence right is that kind of

makes sense

yeah i mean if you see like you know in

in like uh in sort of the interaction

between

like um like like abraham god right like

all the conversations they have with

each other it's incredibly like you know

there's something like

christianity like christianity proper

like um has this relationship of like um

you know like like god is through christ

right christ is is is the

corporealization of god

and and the prioritization of god so you

have like the father son of having

how he goes holy spirit right but like

you know christ is like

god made flesh or god made matter right

god corporealized

um but you have in the old testament

some

themes on the surface to repudiate that

in the fact that god speaks directly to

abraham

i'm not so i'm not i'm not a fantastic

biblical scholar i can't give it

intuitively speaking marx also talks

about it in the connotation is basically

that

judaism was more a religion of imminence

whereas christianity is kind of a

religion of transcendence you know marx

writes

that christianity is the sublime thought

of judaism

and that's the way he would he put it

into expression but

i think that or the way orthodoxy

relates to um relates to contradiction

is basically that

it dwells in this moment of

contradiction in which

yes we are still within the old

testament world

but there is one moment of transcendence

of transcendence

which which is um which is a moment

of contradiction a type of hole or a gap

in this iman this um material world of

pure imminence there's some type of hole

some type of gap within it which is this

moment of transcendence

which is this moment of transcendence

that

resulting from the uh crucifixion or i

don't know resulting from such a

horrible way to put it

but um sure to me uh to me

the um oh yeah yeah this is what i want

to say

that's why that's how i this freezing

within the moment of contradiction the

necessity of giving expression to the

contradiction by dwelling within it by

freezing it in time

i think the orthodox idea of the um

catahound is that how you say it

catahound yeah

the the the the thing that prevents

the apocalypse to me apocalypse the way

i interpreted the orthodox apocalypse

is this kind of uh consequences

for the old metaphysics that is uh

opened up by the chris the christian

transcendence actually being realized

like so to recap basically like you

begin with

the metaphysics of the old testament and

then there is a moment of

transcendence in uh christianity

but the consequences this transcendence

has

for the metaphysical old testament world

are not yet realized and they must it

must

continually be postponed and cannot be

allowed to be realized because this

means

uh this means the end of the world and i

think another way to you can you can

then um there's so many ways of actually

interpreting that and looking at what

that means

it also reminds me of it to me it's very

kantian in a sense it reminds me of kind

of

the way in which uh

the way in which the consequences of um

the kantian transcendence which is a

more

technical philosophical world are not

allowed to be

realized metaphysically or else the

phrase kantians use for this is

metaphysical enthusiasm if we go out and

try to actually develop

the thing in itself or the absolute

object

we're engaging in a type of metaphysical

enthusiasm this is

how kantians reproach uh hegelians

actually

um and there's this weird affinity or

proximity between russian civilization

and kant i mean in in the modern age i

mean i mean you can see this uh

reflected in the neocontinent trends

that lenin was dealing with at

his time but also um beyond that and

another thing i wanted to say finally

was that

another way of looking at the concept

because you mentioned the the

significance of the patriarchs the

church fathers

i think the main significance of

sociology are you familiar with what

this is sociology i'm not no

i'm not i'm not so much not basically a

guy his name is vladimir

solo i forgot his last name um he was a

russian

theologian mystic who introduced a

fourth

um some type of fourth

i don't know what to call them elements

to the trinity which was the div

which is the feminine the feminine

uh divine essence the feminine divine

basically

and there was a fourth right and uh this

is basically the beginning of what's

called

sociology now this same guy actually i'm

going to look him up right now so i know

his name

um hold on so it's his name was

um vladimir so love

so love you so love you that's how you

say it so love you off

he became a type of syncretic who tried

to bridge

russian orthodoxy with western

catholicism

western eastern christianity but the

reason why

uh the reason why

he introduced it okay instead of

laughing just correct me dude i don't

maybe it wasn't the trinity he was

talking about something else

um i think from what i'm seeing now i

think i think you're

you are right you know in what he's

saying you are you are correct it is it

is an introduction of a fourth

uh instance in the trinity yeah okay

yeah just uh just

it's been i'm kind of dusty on this you

know it's uh it's been a long time since

it's really interesting i'm sort of

skimming over it but it is really

interesting stuff and yeah yeah but you

know what i'm sorry

to cut you off a little sort of actually

continue continue oh okay sorry just

really quick

the way i put it is that um the reason

why it makes sense that he was a

syncretic is because he was actually

making something

that was always implicit in russian

orthodoxy

this you know feminine essence you know

because femininity in the west in the

history of civilization is associated

with mystery

the unnamable sacred you know

prohibited uh

aspect of reality um he he put that in

explicit terms and he translated

something that was untranslatable

he made it intelligible from the western

perspective

but in reality russian orthodoxy

also other eastern religions including

islam they are always latent with this

type of

feminine divine but it only works

like practically it only functions

in religious terms if you don't actually

name it directly if you name it and

explicitly reference it

it becomes something else does that make

sense

yeah yeah totally i mean you know what

this has got me

thinking is that like and this is

definitely gonna

gonna i think this definitely quite

something quite interesting for you and

sort of your um your critique of uh uh

anglo-saxon sort of what you call

anglo-saxon like uh modernity and all

that is

if you look into like um people like

john d right

like who was who's like you know uh you

know queen elizabeth's uh court

alchemist uh

diviner all the rest of it right um and

also the guy who funnily enough

came up with the term british empire so

that's a whole kind of one in itself

right

but like he he was functioning with this

idea that there is a hidden fourth in

the three

right a quadrantity in a ternary right

and and and sort of

he was working from this like um

hermetic uh

uh tradition you know like he was kind

of like a um you know protestant

mystic you know although you know

someone in the chat will probably

critique me for saying that but whatever

i'm just trying to be simple um but you

know like he's a

protestant um person mystic but like you

know he he was you know pushing for this

whole like he thought he could

communicate

with angels et cetera et cetera he was

sort of you know kind of landing things

like communicating with the outside

right you know like he was kind of like

communing with uh the outside and sort

of you know informing himself based on

this and kind of

trying to like immunitize uh the end of

the world trying to immunize the

apocalypse essentially

uh through this process talking with

angels but like he was foundational him

and people like francis bacon

and like william shakespeare et cetera

all these like fundamental people

um were very very influential like he's

just never talked about right

but like not so much but people like

bacon and shakespeare who who are in his

circle

right like you know although i say

william shakespeare you people um need

to look up the work of a guy called

alexander war so they can get um

red pilled on the uh who shakespeare

actually is

so i just you know put out people look

up alex on the wall get red pill in the

shakespeare question

um yeah like people who are running in

john d circle um were all sort of

obsessed with this idea of a hidden

fourth in the trinity right but

they were sort of functioning on this

like hermetic idea that the hidden force

was man right the hidden fourth was man

himself right and there isn't sort of a

masculinity there right there's a kind

of like

there is you know it's not just about

men men but humanity but it's a

masculine humanity

um and it's not this kind of appeal to

wisdom it's kind of like the hermetic

like

uh uh wisdom that is sort of the divine

spark of of mankind that is part of the

hidden you know the hidden forth in in

the trinity

right and i think you could probably if

you look into this you could probably

get a better critique than i can

um of the distinction between eastern

um sort of like eastern uh theology

versus like uh

anglo-saxon english theology so i think

you know that that probably be quite a

good rabbit hole for you

more so than me um but yeah that's what

i want to say on that matter i think it

just reminded me of that because i think

there's something quite interesting

there

the connection actually might be more it

might be more relatable actually because

um the sociologists the way they would

describe the meaning of the sophia is

that the sophia is the body of humanity

represents the body of humanity yes and

uh kojev

alexander kojov was also very much

influenced by uh

by sofia his work on the state

his specific work uh i have it right

here the

outline of the phenom notes on the

outline of the phenomenology of right

this was actually directly um influenced

by

the sociology the sociology which takes

into account

the body the body of humanity as opposed

to the

the classical modern state which is just

this kind of uh

the logos or the mind right

but anyway um not to i'm not not to

ramble in that direction but

to go back to the um thing you were

saying about baekhyun and john d

and stuff you know what i find so

tragical is that it

is i'm trying to think of the movie that

this reminds me of

that explores this

specific tragedy but when we go back in

time

and we read about these people and

actually read what they write in

including friend people like bacon we

come to

realize that they tend to be almost uh

very agreeable like you tend to read

them and

you think wow they're actually on to

something you know

but yet even i uh very often will be

like oh the the dogmatic baconian

metaphysics

and you know obviously i'm shitting on

anglo you know dogmatism and but when

you actually go to the

roots and the origin you will find

something

uh very different than what the kind of

the dogmatic consequences of it that's

what i think is what i mean why it's a

tragedy like

when you go back in time

the call the um the original

thing was different than its actual

consequences

if that makes sense um

the consequences in terms of like the

way people

filled in the blanks uh yeah

i mean you can say the same thing with

marx right exactly

yes it's like i feel like that's what

you're leading with this right i mean

you can say the same thing with people

like marx and you know

sorry for the chat but you can say the

same thing with lennon and you can say

the same thing with all these people

right i mean it's like

it's very unfortunate um i mean

something i was you know

sorry to sort of like kind of derail

quite a bit back

but it's something i was thinking about

in terms of the british empire like um

i don't know it's something that as i

kind of like um

prelude to the discussion we're gonna

have later on i think that sort of like

there's something very sort of strange

that's like happened um as a response

to like sort of this like you know

massive you know it's just you know

thing about john d and all that like

and break bacon like thinking about like

you know this kind of like um

the british empire sort of does feel a

little bit to me like it was kind of

like resolving a lot of like

england's kind of very very strange um

internal contradictions with itself

right i mean like

the kind of relationship that england

has always had between like

it's uh anglo-saxons uh celtic celts

and uh normans right i mean like there's

a sort of three poles of like

english civilization the kind of the

germanic uh anglo-saxon pole

uh the kind of celtic pole and the kind

of like french um

uh also very roman uh normans right uh

and how they imported it right i feel

like something

about like brexit right as a moment um

kind of feels to me because a lot of

people kind of like sort of

don't sort of understand where what

brexit is i think

like brexit like to them sort of feels

like something which is like

purely like this kind of irrational

stupid you know

proletarians being stupid you know oh

they don't understand what their best

interests are

they don't understand like what they

need in this life they don't understand

like what is best for them

and it's like it's not that they don't

understand you know what's best for them

or what is necessary for them

it's that they know that what is told is

the best for them is not what's the best

for them

you know they understand that actually

like to live

properly to live and exist properly uh

you have to have a little bit of

risk involved right and to assert

oneself and to assert oneself as

a collective body even if that

collective body is not understood as a

collective body as

just yet but it's becoming as such right

i think in england and in britain we're

kind of rediscovering a sense

of like nationhood and a civilizational

importance

i think what really comes apparent as

time is going on

is that the people who are the real

successors to the british empire

the real pro-imperial forces are the

remainers the people who vote remain

because you know fundamentally i think

they're the people who sort of they want

a seat at the table you know they want

to be big they want to be strong they

want to sort of like

you know hold both the special

relationship with you know the biden

america and all that you know

of course they were skeptical about

america when trump was in office now

that trump's out of office they're not

skeptical about america at all

uh has to be expected right like but you

know they want to maintain their like

relationship with the big powers with

america with germany with france with

europe all this shit

they they don't really want to uh they

they don't really want to sort of exist

by themselves alone and and actually

interact with the world on a sort of

equal footing with the rest of the world

right they want to be a part of this big

club this big powerful club

uh where they're alone they're they're

separated from the rest of the world and

separated from like real countries right

they want to be sort of better than that

and i feel like that's the real

successor of like empire

i know this is a massive tangent and

derailing but it's just something that i

i feel like

i needed to say you know i think i think

it's relevant because

empire can mean different things uh

empire british empire obviously

has a very specific connotation

but one thing i've noted before is this

idea that

sometimes empire seems like it's

interchangeable with polarity

and the uk uh

of course the crown the what the british

crown represents is reactionary

but a big i like to say big people's

polarity

maybe is possible within the uk

on the basis of equal relations between

the constitutional

nations but um yes i totally agree

that i was i'm 100 with you when it

comes to your view and

analysis of like 100 that this was

exactly our analysis the remainers

represented empire and in the sense of

yeah

when i always use the word uh anglo

uh empire or whatever they are the

remainers are precisely the epitome of

that

precisely 100 this is the thing this is

exactly why this is exactly where we and

we're not going to get into it now this

is exactly why we need to have our more

long-form discussion

where it's not like 4am and i'm not like

drunk you know oh shit

i'm so sorry no no don't worry about it

man i mean you know i'm animated you

know like this is a good conversation

um but yeah the only problem i have is

i'm running out of cigarettes but yeah

like uh

it's yeah this is something that we need

to get into properly because i feel like

this is the thing about like

what like to me and to sort of some of

the people that

i'm talking with and sort of working

with um on like you know our own sort of

political projects and things

is we see something in the anglo-saxon

tradition

um in in anglo-saxon kind of you know

principles of um

there were tenergamot and the fox moots

and the um

the system of like uh meeting places

these are some of the hundreds

um with with elective monarchy uh with

the kind of anglo-saxon judicial system

with the relationship between

anglo-saxons and the vikings um

a lot of a lot is there which has been

lost to

time uh which i think still has its

remnants

in the foundations of english

civilization

that has been sort of like become like

like sort of i don't know how to

describe like dormant code

or like sort of sleeper code within it

which i think has been

partially re-awakened by the brexit vote

um and it's something which is you know

i mean this is

another thing we have to talk about

especially is jeremy corbyn right

big problem with the left is jeremy

corbyn because the americans

i mean i remember like when you know

like people like chapel trap house or

whatever people you know groups like

chapel traps or whatever they fucking

love jeremy corbyn and that's exactly

the problem

right with these people love jeremy

corbyn and that is who loves jeremy

corbyn you know

it's like sorry go ahead no no no no no

no you're going oh i was gonna say one

of the memes i have that i always say

but i never i don't actually say it

often on stream i say it like internally

is that

the biggest problem of the american left

and the british left

is the other the other like the biggest

problem for british

left is america america is the number

one problem the americans are shitting

it up

for the people in uh the uk but also in

uh

it's our elites both of our professional

managerial elites

are bad influence like we for example

you know that guy nathan robinson

yes i do like he he represents the worst

of that

as it's being influenced on uh on

america but

at the same time that both of our elites

are the worst thing for both of us

we can also exert good influence

based on a new type of insurgent

like to me the ideal is the unity

between what you

think i've you saw the primordial anglo

people like the real which is rooted in

the people it's not

the what i what i say on stream like

when i mean by anglo i mean like these

elites which yeah yeah

something uh demotic nick land user

likes that term you know the word

demotic is like

the root word is deimos so people and

yeah

yeah um and american demos

demotic these two can have a positive

mutual

relationship but i own 100 percent this

is the real this is the real special

relationship which should exist right

the special relationship

i don't know if this word is so popular

in america uh this this phrase special

relationship but it's something that's

trying to run a lot over here

to do with al kakari to the to america

is they call it a special relationship

the real special relationship between

the p should be between you know as you

say the demos of

the anglo-saxon people uh and the celtic

people with

the america and you know specifically

brexit i like to use that as an example

again

to actually because it's a it's a way of

thinking about the problems we have in

america so people will approach me and

be like

well well that's kind of chauvinistic

because then that means you're against

the irish people and the scottish people

and you're siding with english

chauvinism and then i said listen

the status quo in the establishment is

what sanctifies that chauvinism

when you return to the primordial roots

you can reset the relationship between

these different national peoples on a

new and fresh basis

and that's how i respond to people in

america when they say well the populists

in america are not

really good on racial politics and then

i said

but the establishment here is what

sanctifies racism

when you go back to the roots in the

people

it's yes you're going to begin with all

this prejudice and racism and chauvinism

but only then will you have the

opportunity to reset

the relationship for example between

white and black

america on a new basis based on a new

footing between equals

it's always the establishment that

hypocritically

sanctifies prejudice while at the same

time pretending

that it's the sole recourse against it

the the the british establishment which

was pro-remainer

always pretended that it was the epitome

of anti-racism

and that oh look at where london

progresses and we're all

a you know we have no racism we have no

prejudice it's all you know uh

multicultural diversity and

but they're they are the they are the

structural and political

incarnation of the real

the reality of uh for example chauvinism

that exists in the

united kingdom yes many of the

remainers may be racist and chauvinist

but it's an open confrontation with that

uh based on

a dialogue between

revolutionary partisans and ideologists

and the people it's an open kind of um

way of uh confronting that and

by confronting i don't mean like you

know uh canceling i just mean like

engaging with it working with it and

yeah somehow addressing real disclosures

yeah a real discourse yeah exactly a

real dialogue between

the progressive forces and the people

oh that's the only hope there is because

um the way i this is maybe gonna sound

super complicated and convoluted but

the way in which establishments and

institutions

interpolate the population

incriminates those establishments

for all of the racism and chauvinism and

so on that may prevail among them in

other words

if you want to look at the cause the

real cause

of racism and so on in the united

kingdom

you don't blame the people you look at

the institutions and establishment which

is

which has hegemony over interpolating

them

only a new basis for the their interpret

interpolation will allow a platform for

some

new type of change to happen

completely i i think i think you know

it's it's like

if you think about you know the people

who you know if you think about it i

used to be a part of the markzware's

organization which was both

um pro brexit and pro um irish

independence at the same time right

which is seen by establishment you know

figures and pro-establishment figures

who are absolutely not establishment but

think they want to be you know

you know you deal with the same people

in in in regards to voucher or whatever

person's like vouch

uh but we deal with the same people in

terms of our left right who's sort of

like say like oh how can you be

pro-brexit

and at the same time pro-irish unity

right it's impossible to have that

position right

but it's not at all impossible to have

that position it's actually completely

correct to have that position

it's it's it's completely you know it's

absolutely completely adequate to have

that position

right it's something which is like it's

been it's been sort of stolen from us

the

the ability to sort of make clear that

like brexit is not

an expansionist sort of like perspective

position of england

sort of expanding itself over the whole

country right it's a position of

england and uh scotland and uh ireland

and wales being able to assert

themselves as real entities that exist

as as real things which exist outside of

this universalizing

her germanizing force of of europe and i

think this is the thing that i think

the next phase of the brexit movement

right which is not over

brexit is not over brexit is not an

event brexit is a it well

it was an event the cause of process to

unfurl and revealed

to people in this country the

possibilities of political action

in terms of asserting sovereignty

asserting autonomy

and asserting uh what is now uh

nationalism right now a kind of

nationalism that in the future

will be more than a nationalism we above

nationalism

um something which is it takes the core

of nationalism the the impulse

both the progressive and the reactionary

impulses which which lend themselves and

sort of

are are revealed by nationalism and into

something else i mean

you know the way that the trump right

you know the way that people always

compare trump to brexit

is actually completely correct in

comparing them right

in terms of like demagoguery like people

like boris johnson nigel farage and

donald trump

all give like a reason and a sense as

you would say a sense to

um to to two people's uh uh actually

existing impulses actually existing

resentments and passions and rages and

feelings and

and and intense you know in intense

passions right

uh it gives sense of them but these

demagogues do slip away

in time right these demagogues are only

representations of these things right

they only give sense these things in

time

but the actual these people do not

manufacture in themselves these

positions right

brexit was not manufactured by nigel

farage it was brexit even itself is not

like what brexit really is

like the word itself is incredibly

problematic right uh it it it's brexit

and

nigel farage and all these figures and

all these movements and events and

things

are indicative of a wider process of

people rediscovering themselves

in face of a rejection of universalism

in face of a reject and it's exactly the

same thing

and this is the thing that i'm trying to

get through to people in my university

um which is an incredibly like liberal

progressive woke university

i'm trying to get across to you know

post colonialism decolonization and

brexit are basically exactly the same

position

it's exactly the same position and and

you know this is the thing which like

you know i think this is why

fourth political theory and dugan sorry

you know to piss people off right

you know like uh dugan is so important

in this regard is understanding that

like

no to be effectively anti-racist is on a

certain level to assert some kind of

thing which looks like nationalism right

like the rejection of universalism

requires some kind of ugly

uh or or not requires but comes about

with an ugly face initially right it's a

kind of ugly face which then becomes

beautiful in time you know

like it's something which yeah yeah you

know

i'm rambling but you see what i'm saying

here right no 100 100

i do want to save a lot for our talk but

one thing i'll add to that is that uh

one of the things that intrigued me

about

2015 corbin for all his faults

the original one was this idea of

reindustrialization

and the revival of the uk's national

economy because

that's where where the fuck did that go

where the fuck did that go yeah

yeah that's what really stuck with me

as something that leftists in the uk i

think

should have focused more on was this

fact that

what let's be basic marxist what in

reality does the eu

mean for the people of the united

kingdom it means the reign of financial

parasites

and the complete repression and

annihilation of the actual

national industry and economy that is

the lifeblood

and you know the

economic foundation of british

sovereignty

basic national sovereignty and

uh this was completely dropped and gone

and uh to me that i feel like that is

actually

how we can analyze break not reduce

brexit in this vulgar marxist way but

we can analyze brexit as some type of

longing for

some type of return to having a real

economic foundation as opposed to

the eu means for the uk

turning the uk into a service economy

now what people

what what people with any dignity would

ever accept

such a you know degrading arrangement of

what being rendered service workers

uh not having any you know

you know the history of le this long i

know i don't want to ramble too far

about

the the land pill not the nick land the

actual land reform pill

in the uk specifically there's such a

deep and primordial significance

of land in in relation to politics

you know you go back to the land in

closures which was the origin of

proliferation

and then i'm sure you have a lot more to

say about even further back you know

with the norman conquest and before the

norman con conquest

no people can exist without land and the

eu

meant a new type of fundamental

landlessness

and after and uh in the midst of the

british people's deindustrialization

yes completely and i think something

that the british left needs to

um needs to confront in themselves

is uh their fidelity to um you know the

labour party and especially the uh

the sort of the kind of the myth of old

labor the myth of

uh people like um you know like uh and

this is going to be very contentious for

any people who are british listening to

this who left us sorry about this but

you know

no actually marx leonardo is usually

good on this right they understand why

uh old labor is bad but you know

um people like naib evan and clement

atlee right especially time and athlete

like

clement atlee was the beginning of like

you know i sort of like started to think

of it like sort of like

you know the the five heads of marxism

leninism right

the kind of like the three heads of of

like english

like the the kind of transformation of

england and britain in general

um so i have a bit of an english

chauvinist in my language but you know i

am what i am

um but you know like uh the sort of the

three heads

is uh clement atlee margaret thatcher

and tony blair they are one continuity

they're very clearly one continuity

because what happened on the clement

abbey with the sort of development of

the war

and the kind of the the massive shock of

the war the trauma of the war plus the

sort of

massive explosion of um productive

capability and

and and information technology that

happened because of the war you had this

ability to sort of you know the slogan

of

was you know uh we've won the war now

let's win the peace right and what that

meant was

let's apply what we have learned during

the war to society let's mechanize in a

way which is actually information based

right

it's like that let's mechanize um and

it's kind of like cybernetics basically

right it's like

let's organize society according to this

like um

it's like uh like like like

nationalization is kind of like a logic

of like

uh organizing society based on merit

organizing society based on like

efficiency

and what that led to with the massive

like you know production of um

uh sort of the construction of like

council flats and like

uh great for people who are living there

right people who lived through horror

and needed somewhere to live and needed

life and needed like

fantastic in that regard right but you

can't help but sort of notice if you

look into it for a little bit

that there is a direct continuity

between that development

and what later happened with thatch's

financialization and then later on with

tony blair's

managerialization right like there is a

direct continuity there that the

groundwork was

with and i don't like to think to you

teleologically but i think this is quite

this is quite correct i do think you

know uh this this this construction of

like um

the nationalized economy the

nationalized state

um state-owned industry in this way in

this capitalists you know

keynesian way did lend itself very much

to thatcher's

um uh financial revolution that took

place you know

and i i think you know the british left

really has to contend with this right in

their own history because they're so

wedded to to clement atlee they're so

wedded to like

the institution of the national health

service the institution of the welfare

state so much as it is nowadays but

you know the welfare state as this is

the thing people don't realize that

most council flat buildings were meant

as temporary tenements right

not most but a lot of them a lot of them

were met as temporary tenants there's a

place called excalibur estate

which still exists to this day which is

temporary like

um housing units very like you know like

basically prefab

units which were meant to be torn down

within years of their construction and

they exist to this day right

it's these things were meant to be

temporary and they were meant to be

temporary because

as we see through history as what is

revealed in time is that these things

would be replaced by

the privatization right the

nationalization led directly to

privatization

uh it's a one-to-one right it'll be

straight into it

and i think it's something that the

british left has not been able to really

you know there's someone interesting i

think that

you you would you would you'd be

interested in um there's a sort of

movement within the labour party which

is kind of interesting they're kind of

like

uh small c conservative like social

conservative

socialists uh the blue labor movement

people like maurice glassman

you know about that yeah i've heard of

blue labor yeah

yeah yeah i would recommend looking into

maurice glassman like a lot of the stuff

written about him especially on his wiki

like the wikipedia page for blue labor

is full of bullshit

and a lot of like you know the faith

family and flag that's never been like a

slogan of blue labor it's just a

complete construction

by the media but you know like uh his

his like

maurice glassman's whole assertion is

basically that like we need to sort of

re you know he's very much kind of this

like um soft

social democratic version of dugan i

guess like you know it's like

he wants to like reject the progressive

teleology he wants to reject this idea

of like um

progress it for the sake of progress

right and he wants to understand like a

deepening of the relations between

people

uh but i think he he's very good in

terms of analyzing the problems that

that were caused by labor the labour

party in regards to like

uh transforming itself out of its own

tradition and into something which is

wholly suited for

uh financialization and then later on

tony blair's like management economy

information

uh knowledge economy you know that's

something the british left has not been

able to deal with and corbyn was not

able to deal with that at all because

he was caught between these two poles

right of like um reopening the pits

reopening the mines you know

renationalizing the economy which was

then drowned out in this like

uh left left leftization whatever the

fuck you'd call it like

this aesthetization of left is a

sensitization of managerialism

and this kind of fidelity to the

professional class um

you know it caught between these poles

and the left in this country cannot push

beyond that right it cannot seem to push

beyond

these two poles of managerialism and

nationalization

but there is so much more that we are

capable of in this country right

we our history stretches back way before

world war ii

you know like we have a rich history in

this country the labor movement has a

rich history

and and the fact that we sort of define

it as something which happened after

clement atlee

prime minister labour party government

initiated the welfare state it's such a

cupped mindset

and it really like it pisses me off i

almost definitely did not like respond

to your point and i just went on a

ramble no

yeah i'm so glad i know there's a lot we

have to say

but there's a few things the first thing

is that dude

you literally are on the money about why

we have problems in america with the

fucking green new deal bullshit

like the new deal

the new deal is the same dude it's like

there's a direct continuity between the

new deal

and reagan and then yes bush yeah and

clinton i mean

because clinton was kind of our blair

but to get add more to your point

you're you're veering into territory

that i'm too scared to present to my

audience sometimes because i presented

in the beginning

in our streams but basically my crazy

idea was that

if by socialism we mean you know

some type of total politicization of the

economy

more or less we're living in socialism

already and actually

neoliberalism in the west is the most

advanced and sophisticated form

it's more socialist even than uh the new

deal and the

british nationalization you're talking

about it's even more

more state uh politicization of the

economy than before

yeah and and my every even a lot of

people who support me were like dude

you're a fucking idiot

and i just like okay you're not ready

then you're not ready to

learn about why this is the case but you

are so 100

on the money um about that and um

and there's a few things we have to note

here is that one thing is that

the word privatization is always so

misleading because what privatization

basically means is that

first the state establishes some type of

control

over the economy and then it

it it then selectively chooses what it

opens up

uh to quote unquote the private like for

if the state is able to privatize

something

that in itself attests to a profound

level of

already socialized uh an already

socialized

economy and um yes and and my whole pill

was basically that marx and

engels were anticipating this total

politicization of the economy in the

form of their anticipation of the

inevitability of socialism

and actually the thing that

distinguished marx and engels

with their dialectic view specifically

their materialist dialectic view and

scientific socialism

was basically for them scientific

socialism wasn't a total

you know total um utilitarianization of

the economy and people

it was a way to recognize

that this that there's a contradiction

in this universalization and

it's precisely this contradiction

contradiction that gives meaning to

the social in socialism our common

sociality is not um is not

total politicization it's something that

resists

total political uh control the epitome

of

quote-unquote socialism as we put it in

in modern-day sense

was hegel's philosophy of right and marx

was precisely critiquing hegel

because for marx hegel's political

whole politicization of society uh

neglected that there's a fundamental

material

substance or maybe even essence of

humanity and society which

resists this and which cannot be

reducible to the terms of

formal formalization and politicization

um so and there's another thing of note

is that

there's something very specific about

world war ii here that's a common thread

and it's also why people like you and me

are always going to be accused of being

fascists or right-wing adjacent yeah

you know it's like yeah it seems like

the only

thing the left can have today it

somehow it needs to return to the

primordial origins

of what was constructed in in the

aftermath of world war

ii not to return to world war ii not to

return to the new deal

but return to the origins of those

things and to me i placed that timeline

roughly in the early 20th century and

late 19th century with the populace

and to me the left like to me the way i

look at it is that

we're witnessing an implosion of the

post-world war

ii managerial state and

this implosion is unleashing all of the

latent forces

that composed it in the first place

like you had an evolution in in america

from the populists and the southern

democrats

all these people into the modern

democratic party so the implosion of the

democratic party also means the

unleashing of these

same forces that that made it up

so yes we see the same thing in england

we see in britain

we see the same thing over here as well

in in terms of the fact that you know

it's something again going back to the

to glassman and blue labor something he

always points out which i think is

completely correct is that um

the origin of the labour party um in you

know the labor movement

the cooperative movement the labour

party it comes from

in fact not from kind of what people

would consider as like actually like

sort of like

abstract idea of worker organization but

the concrete reality of

institutions like burial societies right

because in this country i don't know how

it is in america but in this country

what used to happen to poor people is

they would be chugged in massive pits

called pauper's graves right where they

had wooden gravestones or no gravestones

at all

and there would be no real commemoration

of them

and what what the what the sort of germ

the sort of the the original

initial sort of embryonic form of the

labor party and the labor movement in

this country was

was uh uh one significant part of it was

the burial societies

which which actually like gave meaning

to people's lives and meant that

in death they could still have meaning

right

and this is something which has been

completely lost in the

because now we have obviously everyone

has a fucking you know everyone is like

you know either burnt or you know

cremated or they are buried and there's

a gravestone that's just a given but

that was something that was struggled

for

right and people missed the the struggle

of the of the workers is not

principally just only this kind of like

level of like

power in the in in the in in in the

total political

sense but it's also a power of a meaning

of life right it's a power over like

uh your you know your abilities you have

meaning in your own life and a big part

of that is your meaning and death how

your memory hey you're you're remembered

in death

and that is something which labour

movement in its embryonic form

struggled for was burial having uh the

ability to be buried and have a

gravestone and that was something which

the embryonic form the labor movement

the legal party

struggled for and that's what started it

this level of camaraderie around death

right this is another reason you know

there's a reason blue label calls itself

blue labels it's not just because it's

like a joke on like uh

you know uh like people say like red uh

democrats in america or whatever you

know

vaush says like retarded shit like that

you know like fucking you know

or like blue republican all this like

retard shit

like it's this thing the blue labor is a

joke on that but it's also a joke on

like you know also the mental health

crisis it's okay to be sad sometimes yes

that's true it is okay to be sad

sometimes but it's also

about you know the melancholia of

existence right like existence is

is suffering life is suffering and to

give meaning to that suffering

is one of the most important things that

a person can do right

alleviation of suffering is very

important but meaning to suffering is

the only way which you can lead to an

alleviation of that suffering right

and this is something that's been lost

so many things have been lost

but yeah it's something which you know

this is before world war ii

this is before managerialization this is

before nationalization

this is before financialization right

this is before the kinds of modes of

struggle

which are defined by i don't know what

you want to call it high modern you know

whatever you want to call the post-world

war ii era like

you know it's something which we are so

like caught in and struggling within the

sort of

the axioms of like uh post-world war two

political developments and world war two

political development you know you see

all these people talking about

stressorites and nazballs or whatever

they have no clue what these words mean

these words have absolutely no relevance

to the contemporary situation

nas balls are you know an eclectic i

mean you only think about

what what lebanov actually believed

limanov believed nothing

liminolov was a nihilist you know like

liminoff was disgusted by the world

you know like i respect him as an artist

you know as a creative like i sort of

you know i like to make art myself so i

respect him as an artist and a political

artist right

but like the only person who gave

meaning to the national welsh fix was

dugan and he fucking left the party a

long time ago you know

like uh and it's like you know people

still talk

he used the word nasball as a way to say

like you know what you know in that

video where you're like i don't i don't

watch vouch except for through you

because i don't want to fucking watch

vouch you know

i only watch you watch your critiques of

vouch because i need that fucking

director's commentary shit i need that

fucking commentary on him otherwise i

can't fucking stomach it

but like you know he's just disgusting

you know but like the way he sort of

talks about like um

what was it you know like the nas ball

vortex idea right where it's like

oh yeah they'll come and they'll say to

you like uh oh you can have workers

rights but you need to

get rid of trans people and whatever you

know and embrace the family it's like

well you know the nazball's actually

rejected the family right the original

like you know the

where limanov actually you know one of

the major moments in the national

bolshevik party

uh after he like left prison and all

that like was no we need to create a

russia which is against the family

you know and we and he thought he was a

pederaster as well right

he's more similar to vaush than vaush

would think right is more of a nazbal

than he fucking would like to admit

he's a fucking pedophile so there you go

like it it it's it's you know it's like

strasser right as well it's a

meaningless label it's a meaningless

term stressorite is like

very specific to an internal um internal

like a dispute within the nazi party

that has no relevance to anything today

you know it's like the same way that

like you know i mean

you know you want to think about like

the nas balls oh are they left are they

right that means nothing

right when the naz balls came about like

the left and the right was monopolized

by the cp the communist party what meant

what was meant by left and right was

internal division between the communist

party

there was no left and right outside of

that there was the punks and the

dissidents

and the sort of rebels and the

nationalists they were not defined

necessarily by the left right that was

in state power right

it's just yeah it's this very it's a

very bizarre thing that people sort of

use these labels and use these terms and

like

you know i'm accused of being announced

but i'm on the same list that you're on

right this closeted nas ball list right

like

i'm on this list of people on twitter

that are like the bad knicks right you

know

the fucking the evil it's it's it's very

funny that people sort of use these

terms without realizing what they mean

you know like

you know this is something we should

talk about more in a in greater depth i

think later on

oh yeah i think it all goes back to this

just world

anyone who's outside of the managerial

state

is a somehow related to nazism because

the managerial state defined itself

after in the aftermath of world war ii

but one of the things they're missing is

also the but they took on nazism you

know they took on nazis

exactly managerial state in america and

britain took on and

and basically made nazism more efficient

you know

they were real nazis yeah um

this i don't want to keep you up because

you know uh i understand but uh

one thing i wanted to say is that the

thing you mentioned on blue labor and

the significance of death

you know it's very heidigerian heidegger

specifically um writes

and gives significance to the way in

which uh

life is proven or somehow given me

meaning

in terms of our relationship to death

our finitude

um so i i'm very interested in you

you've really um sparked my curiosity in

blue labor and

i really like what you mentioned about

the significance of blue

um there's also a kind of blue

tone i guess to the channel that i want

to have

in that same way that it's just um

if blue means this kind of depth of

um this kind of fact of our finitude and

how we deal with that and how we can i

don't want to say cope

but how we can basically um confront

that reality and acknowledge and just

accept and almost uh i don't want to be

too islamic but surrender before it

right surrender before this

stop trying to um conquer

uh this aspect of life

if this makes me a conservative of some

kind well i guess i am a conservative

to me there's different meanings of

conservative conservative can mean

trying to denounce reality in some way

and then in that sense i'm not a

conservative

i'm not a conservative who's trying to

you know

create a standard of purity upon which

to

impose upon reality but if conservative

means

the rejection of vanity and the

rejection of this attempt

to kind of conquer our reality and

impose you know some type of

total um rationalization

or total uh

total uh so-called uh progress

quote-unquote

yes i'm a conservative i i think there's

uh

yeah well then again it's the same thing

as saying one is a high targaryen

oh yeah i mean you know we're talking

about here like the distinction between

you know they told me again about the

sort of

the the the interwar years right

relating this back to world war two like

sort of the the the development of you

know where heidegger came from that

conservative revolution

um uh a school right like people like

schmidt and

and you know most interestingly people

are god's younger as well you know

fascinating person in terms of this you

know

someone that like you know of course

like you sort of think about like you

know like schmidt is the political

younger is the artistic and heidegger is

the

philosophical right i mean they sort of

typify like a very very interesting

and it's something that i think you know

really was um a miss

in in in england right that you know

that we didn't have a conservative

revolution because i think we were

definitely ready for one and uh

in terms of like how the the development

of schools of thought you know like

i'm not this is not you know if the

people who are going to clip this out of

context like i'm not saying

i completely agree with everything that

conservative revolution or people like

carl schmidt

said just to make that clear um i just

think that

it's you know these sort of the people

who like dealt with the trauma

of world war one um and and came out of

that with a trying to make sense of it

in a way which wasn't just like as they

saw

this vulgar reactionary uh uh politics

and philosophy which was just like you

know like dugan in the fourth political

theory sort of talks about like

in the analogy of the of a dying man

right he talks about like

a man with a cough you know like a man

has a cough and and like progressive

people want to sort of just sort of like

say like oh well the cough is actually

good you know the cough is something

which is we we

like the cough you know the cough is all

right but then the reactionary is like

oh we want to treat the person's cough

we want to treat the symptoms you know

we want to get rid of symptoms

the appearance of the cough needs to be

done away with but like the thing that's

important about the conservative

revolution

is that they sort of you know as dugan

like says you know like uh

again this is gonna be great for people

who don't like me to clip out of context

but anyway

um like you know the duke and says it's

like the conservative revolution wanted

to just

go back to exactly what started the

cough in the first place and questioned

that you know deal with that

deal with this not with the symptoms

with the cause deal with the cause

itself

and this is something which comes out of

great trauma you know you want to

compare that to the national bolsheviks

into that you know

the trauma of the 90s the trauma

of of perestroika the trauma of the

soviet union's collapse you know

and you want to talk about what's

happening right now with the brexit

movement

the trauma of the industrialization you

know

it's an intense moment an intense thing

intense process rather

um which leads to a lot of traumatic

response right

and and to make sense of that trauma and

not for those for

this this sense making to be endlessly

foreclosed by these

useless right-wing demagogues and you

know like hitler to the conservative

revolution was this

you know right-wing demagogue who

essentially just foreclosed on any

possibility of real fundamental change

and real

you know the communists also didn't

engage with the conservative revolution

in a fundamental way you know they they

kind of had little like radic had his

um policy of national bolshevism which

led him said no that's fucking stupid

don't do that and so you had you know

whatever that was pushed to the side but

yeah you know like we don't we don't

have the ability

at the moment to sort of uh because you

know all these all these things have

become so like

we have these like psychic triggers in

our brain which stop us from engaging in

things we don't have the ability to have

a conservative revolution i think i mean

we do have the ability but we sort of

it's endlessly foreclosed upon the

ability to have it because we're sort of

pushed against it by these phrases these

terms which are meant to turn us off

turn us against we're meant to be

endlessly progressive

or we're meant to be the bad alt-right

you know like those are the two things

we're sort of allowed to be

and i think we should be allowed to be

much more than that you know in the way

we think

i think we should be allowed to sort of

and we are allowed fundamentally we're

human beings we have free will

you know we're endowed with that with

that with that fundamental thing free

will

we are meant to be able to think beyond

these bizarre fucking axioms right

these bizarre fucking psychic triggers

that have been encoded within us to sort

of make us like flinch

uh or like love it or not really love

but sort of orgasmically react

to fucking certain triggers and sounds

and words and colors

uh you know i mean the science of

advertising is a big part of this but

like

yeah i think today is necessarily we

need something which is kind of

akin to the conservative revolution but

also akin to the bolshevik revolution

right like we need we need

new forms of response to trauma and

response to

the decay and the death of a world which

is gone

right i mean you know go back to

gramsci's whole interregnum thing right

like

make sense of the monsters right yeah i

mean um

a few things you know the um

the thing a lot of people miss about the

conservative revolution is that the way

you just described it it's perfectly

a perfect description of how you can

understand

marx's adjacency to this kind of

conservative revolution

i mean you can say that exactly the same

thing about marx marx also has

a similar relationship to modernity um

he he it's and then um if

i don't want to keep like name dropping

people but specifically

jijek's writings on de luza's repetition

i think what we're talking about here is

repetition

to repeat something to truly repeat

something

doesn't just mean to do the same thing

as

uh what was the past but to really

confront these this origin

as you described it so to repeat the

moment in which the sick man

gets the disease isn't simply you know

just repeating the exact same past but

it's a type of

new confrontation new confrontation with

it

so i completely agree with you about

this kind of um

significance of repetition and then

another thing

uh i think that there was

an indirect adjacency between the

bolshevik revolution

on the one hand and the subjective

revolution the conservative revolution

in germany

but the reason they couldn't be united

is because on the one hand

the bolsheviks were defending the

objectivity of their revolution

and they saw um

the german conservative revolution as

not suff

adequately recognizing that objectivity

on the other hand

the conservative revolution thinkers in

germany

viewed the bolshevik revolution too

subjectively they just reduced it to a

type of

subject subjective doctrine and actually

interestingly

heidegger and the rest of them to the

extent that they recognized any

significance of communism they just

would read

lucox specifically

so yeah you have this type of uh

contradiction going on where the

subjective element was being monopolized

by people like lucox and others

who i don't think i

said this this got me in trouble when i

said this i said lucox was a

western social democrat and he was never

someone who were preaching oh i remember

this yeah

people made fun of you because you said

lukas was a kantian i mean how the fuck

can you

like how could how can you disagree with

that like

yeah i mean it's it's it's very strange

sometimes i say things and i'm not

always aware like

people are going to take it literally

like obviously lucox supported the bulls

revolution

he rejected the politics of western

social democracy all i meant was that he

was

secretly like he was implicitly like he

still had prejudices from social

democracy

that he didn't um discard

but anyway

um going back i think i completely agree

with you today that we need

a new type of engagement with this

thinking

and also uh to apply it and repeat it

again today and i think this this

assumption that

marxism is irreconcilable or even

marxism leninism is irreconcilable with

that

is an unjustifiable assumption i think

people

they just don't distinguish the

objective aspect of marxism leninism

from

the subjective form

and the way we make sense subjectively

of marxism leninism

we have the whole what lenin would call

the whole treasure of mankind at our

disposal

we can't limit it to a narrow range of

you know halal literature

we have to engage with everything you

know but that doesn't mean we

somehow become so arrogant so as to

confuse that for the objective

significance and way in which marxism

leninism

cements and coheres uh

definite real and objective uh

historical continuities and formations

and uh reality specifically in the form

of states

yeah completely um i think that's a

perfect perfect note to end on this

conversation

yeah you've really uh opened my eyes to

the fact that this

uh this i think this will be the seventh

episode of infrared but when we uh

have our official show with you

i mean i'm really looking forward to it

because um also am i i've been looking

forward to it for a long time i just i

just didn't want to sort of impose

myself you know i just wanted to like

i was really enjoying watching like how

uh you

were like engaging with these like

fucking like weirdos you know these like

internet weirdos and i was enjoying that

a lot i didn't want to like derail your

train right but like

you know i'm very glad i tuned into

today's stream because like you know

when i tuned in you were

you know ranting about this shit and it

was like you're ranting about you know

like you know the

the the sort of the limits of this kind

of this this attack this debate bro kind

of tactic right and it's like yeah i

mean they're

you know i think it's fantastic

entertainment right it's fantastic

entertainment and it is good

in terms of like building a an audience

an audience base right

but i think you're you're right in terms

of like there needs to be a sort of more

dynamic like a more um

how do you say like um uh more stuff

going on right you know you know what i

mean like i think

yeah yeah i mean uh i completely

appreciate it man and i think um

you really gave us you really spoiled us

with some really good content

tonight because i i i right like because

i do come across as a suit all the time

you know you um from my perspective at

least you are a very

concise and clear speaker i mean i never

thought you were ever rambling i never

thought you were veering into you know

an unintelligible direction

but to be fair a lot of people who

regard me as like the epitome of

somebody who rambles and makes no sense

at all

so maybe it's not so much a compliment

if it's coming from me

i'm sure people in the chat would would

agree though that you're a very clear

and

you know concise thing i don't think

anyone can

i i can't see how anyone could say you

know you're not uh making any sense

well thank you i appreciate that i

appreciate that yeah this has been a

fantastic conversation and uh yeah also

it's a testament to

how much i can drink and still maintain

a clear train of thoughts

oh jesus wow yeah that's even more

impressive

like i i struggle to you know suck my

own dick over here you know

you know it's more of a detriment than a

quality you know being an alcoholic or

whatever

no i i struggle to speak that well when

i'm sober

so that's really yeah that's what that's

it's really cheap

well you know it was definitely a

pleasure man it was really a pleasure

and uh thank you yeah do you wanna

do you want all these weirdos in chat to

follow you on twitter

it's up to you if you want um you know

be ready to be disappointed uh most of

the time i just post images

and you know like jokes you know but

like yeah like uh i guess you know

urban maoism if you want to follow me

let me uh yeah

let me get the link

i'm going to spam the link in chat

yeah our twitter got banned

unfortunately but

i know i know it's like i mean but this

is the thing i think this is probably

quite a good thing for you though right

because like

you've seen that like you know these

fucking dickheads like they

you know the these like weird neocon

cult like

this like kevin whatever the fuck his

name is like

these people are meaningless you know

and like you know this and we all know

this in the audience right like we

understand these people are absolutely

fucking meaningless like

and like yeah like you know the content

can be good and we don't have to engage

in and it is we we are all one thing

here you know like

the content is good and it doesn't have

to sort of veer off into sort of

engaging with these stupid little cults

you know

these stupid little neocon meaningless

absolutely meaningless little cults that

can like

surprisingly get people actually have an

effect you know it's amazing like

the internet is so bizarre in this

regard that these meaningless

motherfuckers can have an effect

but yeah it's quite a good moment i

think for the

for you know infrared as shit you know

like you know to

show that like yeah we don't we as a

fucking you know

like chat and as a thing don't have to

fucking engage with these motherfuckers

you know

oh yeah definitely definitely well

um i definitely look forward to our i'll

i'll try to get better with the

scheduling

you know this week i have some bullshit

due wednesday

um but maybe we can figure something out

for

after that because from wednesday to

sunday i think i should be completely

cleared out

so i'll get back to you all right and if

you want to uh the way to contact me now

because the twitter's gone is just uh

on discord you know so just dm me on

discord and i'll be able to see it

but uh i'll be in touch man hopefully we

can we can this thing out

all right well you have a pleasant

evening you too you too thank you so

much

all right man see you later