Haz vs Your Environment Seattle (Karl) | InfraredShow Debate 🚀 Infrared Content Catalog

so guys um

we're gonna debate a guy

and let me show you who the guy is this

is the guy we're gonna be debating

and let me explain to you what happened

and why we're debating him

this is the guy we're debating

okay so this guy

last night sometimes i check my clips

right i check my clips

and last night i found a clip

where it was the most viewed clip on the

of the last 24 hours because i review

those right

this guy clipped something in our

channel

where he finds one part where we're

listening to bloom chan and i'm

attacking chapel and this is the song

it's playing

right

this is the song that's playing

let me show let me show you

this is the song it's playing

[Music]

hey this is like

a very

first of all this song means a lot to me

personally that specific bloom chin song

means so much to me

okay because this is the song we were

playing

when i finally started to get in the

groove of debating and i'm like wow

infrared's gonna rise to the top through

debates

and it reminded me of a leader battle

angel

for some reason and i just it's just

very close to my heart the song right

and bloom chin in general is because you

know i spent a long time in isolation

i don't know if you guys know that

where i had no friends no contacts no

nothing and i i didn't work out in

silence when i would go to the gym and

i'd be preparing my weights i'd be

listening to music a lot of time i was

listening to bloom chen

right just

the spotify profile just going down the

list

because to me bloom chin this was in

2019 represented

the 2020s and it's just like i had this

optimistic feeling when i would listen

to

whatever her name is blooms and the

german artist was like

this is just like how people in the 90s

must have felt going into the 2000s

that's how i felt in 2019 thinking about

how

in a few months it's going to be 2020

we're going to be entering the 2020s and

i had a very just yeah i had a feeling

it was my time now to like be out in the

open and this is the new era it's the

2020s

and it was just a really nice vibe you

know

it that's i love that 90s and 2000s type

of music because

it combines like

you know like electronic repetitive

music with melody right and i used to be

like a type of guy who only liked to

listen to like

really ugly sounding like avant-garde

electronic that had no sense i was like

yeah man this is all that made or

whatever you know that [ __ ] but then

i started to embrace melody right and i

don't know it's just music is a very big

part of my history right

so when infrared started

bloom chin

was what i would use for the intro music

because

and music like that that type of genre i

would use it for the intro music

and while the intro screen was playing

it was showing beijing's new airport

right

uh

with the infrared logo and [ __ ] and it

got me hyped right

it got me hyped and it just felt like

this is a totally new aesthetic totally

new vibe and i'm ready for the new era

right i'm ready for the new era

um

and and i'm specifically by the way

contrasting the infrared aesthetic with

that music and that aesthetic i'm

contrasting that with what i think are

the 80s obsessed chapel

the podcasters bread tube all of those

people are obsessed with the 80s right

but me

i'm more kind of moving toward not only

the 90s but the early 2000s because to

me the 2000s were a feeling of like

you're entering a new era it's just the

future basically this idea of the future

and

that's a that was a very deliberate and

conscious decision on our part to just

make sure

how are they obsessed with the 80s

are you stupid dude do you not know

about synthwave and

uh what is that [ __ ] ugly purple

aesthetic that they use the synth wave

and the [ __ ] they love the synth

music and they did stranger things vibe

and they're hipsters and they're wearing

like that you know spunky 80s you know

shut the [ __ ] up [ __ ] you know what i

mean

80s is more like a return to normal yeah

vaporwave whatever 80s is more 90s is

more like a return to normal after that

80s cringe and then the 2000s is like a

completely new era right

when the 2000s dropped

um

unfortunately it's like y2k didn't

happen right

when the sooner the 2000s happened

you started to see a repetition of like

people rediscovering the 60s

and then 70s in the early late 2000s and

early 2010s it was the 70s the 70s

aesthetic was what was big right then

when around 2015 2016 that's when the

80s thing took off right i started to

notice this in 2016 when 80s started to

uh

take off i was like why is this 80s [ __ ]

being revived

i was like oh okay i understand why

but um

yeah so anyway

you know uh

this is why i challenged this [ __ ] to

a debate this [ __ ] uh

disgusting creature to a debate

i just challenged them because even

though the clip only got 90 views it

pissed me off so much because this is

okay let me tell you what happened

he took a clip

of one of the bloom chen songs one of my

one of my favorite ones by the way it's

not like a random one either it's

literally one of my favorite ones

and he goes infrared listens to

alt-right meme music

and

uh while attacking other leftists

now what i'm interested in knowing

is

how many of you knew that was alt-right

meme music did any of you know that i

[ __ ] didn't know that

and i looked it up

on know your meme the thing and it said

oh there's a meme where

if something's nazi they they they play

a song and i don't [ __ ] know

but

you know i have a very eccentric music

taste in general

and this disgusting slanderous leftoid

stupid [ __ ] piece of [ __ ]

was literally

because people see like how's why is

your music so eccentric this guy's

finally making sense of it oh it's

alt-right meme music he's dog whistling

to the upright

and i got so mad because

this guy is my enemy i actually [ __ ]

hate this piece of [ __ ] thank you

natsuki because

the idea of bloom chen being taken away

from you music that is so close to my

[ __ ] heart

and

it's such a huge part of infrared

history and my own history because this

guy [ __ ] decided it was an alt-right

symbol [ __ ] you [ __ ] i don't care if

[ __ ] hitler himself listened to this

music in his car this is my [ __ ] you

don't i don't give a [ __ ] [ __ ]

you stupid [ __ ]

that's like people who freak out over

pepe the frog you know what i mean

i don't give a [ __ ] [ __ ] if i like

something i like it

i'm gonna listen to it on stream

right

and it pissed me off so much and then he

said while he's attacking other leftists

so i'm gonna there's a few things i'm

gonna debate about one we're gonna

decide whether he was justified in

claiming that uh i was listening to

alt-right meme music

and that was actually the intention

behind whatever

second thing we're gonna talk about is

whether or

not uh leftists deserve to be protected

and not attacked and critiqued

whether like leftists are a protected

class in society then you can't attack

other leftists

leftists

these are the two things i want to cover

all right so i'm going to tell this guy

right now whoever he is get your [ __ ]

[ __ ] ass and show you

now

in the show cue voice channel i'm going

to drag you up

right now

what up

[ __ ]

no one can hear you

your mic doesn't [ __ ] work

hello

yeah of course the [ __ ] nerd doesn't

know how to [ __ ] work

hello you know of course the [ __ ]

nerd doesn't know how to [ __ ] work

hello

you know of course the [ __ ] nerd

doesn't know how to

these are chapel viewers by the way

hello

ah [ __ ] i was using the wrong ah [ __ ]

okay first order of business why is

bloom chan alt-right music go ahead no

no no no we're we're gonna cover

something first unban me

no i'm not gonna unban your [ __ ] ass

okay okay that's a dodge

why is that a dodge you're here now

nope you're gonna unban me or it's a

dodge

dodging what

you're going to unban me so i can fully

participate in this content or it's a

dodge

why is it a dodge what is it dodging

yeah i'm you're literally in voice with

me right now who's dodging what

what a [ __ ] coward he's literally

trying to [ __ ]

back out of the debate now

i don't know i i wanted to debate this

is great we can make some great content

i love it

unban me

why you so you're gonna give me orders

no

no no that it's an agreement no you will

why why why either why agree to debate

or

no

no why i'm not going to accept your

blanket orders why why do you need the

chat

do i need to unban you so your [ __ ]

mic works you [ __ ] [ __ ] why do you

need to be unbanned

that's right you will and by amaze that

my mic works

you will unban me so you can't engage in

the use of reason though right you're

just going to market this order

this arbitrary condition that is

completely devoid of anything

we're going to agree that we are

creating content together

and that includes i'm participating in

chat

you're participating in vc don't worry

about chat

no

what

carl let's explain why bloom chen is

alt-right music go ahead i don't know if

you speak german so do you know what the

lyrics of that song are is that she's

preaching uh

uh white nationalism or something

because that's what you put in the title

you said while he's listening to

alt-right me music it's very curious

that you knew that that was an alt-right

meme supposedly and i didn't which

actually incriminates you who actually

fits the demographic of an alt-righter

as a white and yes you are white you are

a white male

excuse me leftist you know you're a

white male right you're a white male

game death

the number one

demographic of the alt-right as proven

by studies

developers in silicon valley number one

demographic of the alt-right i'm a

[ __ ] arab

from metro detroit michigan

i'm an alt-righter

i don't know about your alt-right

subculture carl why don't you tell us

more about these alt-right memes we may

be unknowingly be participating in the

fact that you knew that incriminates you

and he doesn't defend himself so he's

literally just getting destroyed

i'm winning the debate now he's he's too

scared to even

say anything

he's just getting rolled over he can't

even defend himself

you're too scared to unban

why should i unban you

you have to give me a reason give me one

good reason why i should unban you

okay here's the new terms i'm gonna say

ready donate me your balls

and then we can debate

how many dollars

your balls your your balls go to a

doctor get your balls removed and send

them to me

you is this like infrared wants my balls

or infrared once my balls are

which one is it

ouch you actually thought that was funny

and you're a grown man who looks like

this saying that

you that's literally

that is what i am

yeah you're an alt writer you're an

alt-righter

actually that's appropriating my culture

so you should you should back off of the

german slurs

that might be tos you should watch out

you're an alt writer you're a member of

the alt-right

not actually yes you are you fit the

demographic of the alt-right

listening to music is way less

incriminating than fitting the exact

profile and demographic of an old writer

all while knowing the finest intricacies

of their subculture the fact that you're

aware of alt-right subculture and such

an intimate level of detail incriminates

you to teach your channel about

meme culture yesterday you were trying

and failing really badly i wonder where

you got that information from are you

not being careful about your information

hygiene

what information and how was i failing

you tried to say that something awful

was the peak of rational discourse

no that's not what i said actually

that's what you said i said the matter

of expression that dictated the terms of

uh discourse on something awful was

based on like this plain spoken explicit

discourse

which is true

that's all forum discourse by the way

i literally participated in that [ __ ] i

know what that [ __ ] was you told me the

papa power book meme is like the peak of

of discourse like like that's rational

even their memes were like loaded with

the implicit pretense of a like rational

subject who takes things at face value

even the cheeseburger memes and the uh

fire and my laser memes and all that

kind of [ __ ]

those were not those were nothing like

the memes that would proliferate around

the 2015s and 2016 no they were

qualitatively different entirely

though those memes by the way weren't

based on irony

is that why the subconscious is that

what the subconscious effect that meme

is going to have is that what it's going

to do

what mean

the memes from ytmnd the like so this

song which reminds you of yeah

sorry not 19. 2019 you said it reminds

you of 2019 or 2020 yeah when it came

out in 1998

and

all right what's your point

that's when i just started listening to

it and discovered it and that's the

meaning that i placed it in the context

of are you trying to say that memes like

are imminently and like metaphysically

loaded with meaning rather than being

ascribed meaning for certain reasons

like you actually think a meme actually

carries

some metaphysical subconscious substance

this is what you said on your stream oh

quote me yeah call me call me where i

said that memes carry some kind of

metaphysical unconscious substance

rather than being phenomenal forms that

we relate to our that relate to our

subconscious because of the way we

ascribe meaning to them

when did i say that's so [ __ ] stupid

that's like saying

that's like that's just superstitious

that's just the superstitious 385

seconds into the stream you said memes

give expression to cultural and

unconscious realities of course they do

does that mean they're imminently

metaphysically loaded with like some

kind of magical substance that gives

them reality independently of the

context within which they actually

express meaning like you actually think

a meme is like a magical supernatural

totem that exists independently of the

way in which it actually expresses

things to human subjects you [ __ ]

[ __ ]

you are failing very hard you're failing

very badly because you're being tested

you are you are expressing to us what

the purpose and scope of memes are

okay how am i failing how am i failing

okay hey carl carl carl slow down a

little bit hold on a little bit you said

you put words in my mouth and you said

that i said that memes imminently like

as a fact of their metaphysical

existence their scientific natural

constitution the electrons and the

[ __ ] uh photons that go into their

projection on the screen or the material

that they're made out of in real life

like metaphysically speaking are already

latent with meaning rather than the fact

that there are is always a meaning for

us which is embedded

and entwined

within our world of meaning as human

beings

right when did i say that a meme as

you're trying to imply is inherently and

imminently

um

metaphysically loaded with the meme

substance in quotes holy [ __ ] did you

delete the vod

no i didn't

okay let's find it

give me the exact quote too

we're waiting

it's loading

because i wrote it down and those words

that i said you objected to so so i'm

going to play it back to you

yeah

what did you write down

the title of the clip

to cultural and unconscious realities

no i did say that it just seems like you

don't know what that means that doesn't

mean that a piece of music or a picture

is metaphysically loaded like with some

magical mean substance it's all about

the context and meaning ascribe to it

the burden of proof lies upon you that

in the context of

the meaning being conveyed

as far as that song sir that i was dog

whistling to the alt-right that burden

of proof lies upon you the fact that the

alt-right

read your mind

is this some why would you make the

assault but why why did you claim that i

was using that song as an alt-right meme

if you can't know it i i actually didn't

say that what did you say no what did

you say

you're playing an alt-right meme wait

hold on is bloom chen the artist is she

a member of the alt-right she's the

artist of the song

why not she made the song so is she a

member of the alt right

nope

that's not the cultural context in which

this became a meme

well okay so so at what time period did

any use of this song become an alt-right

meme

after what time period

about 2004

okay so after 2004 anyone who listens to

this song or enjoys this song or is

interested in this song

is basically a member of the alt-right

no i don't think so well the song became

imminently and inherently like

essentially an alt-right meme after 2004

is that what you're saying i think it's

funny as hell that's what i think

after 2004 you're saying that this

became an alt-right mean yes

yes

when did the alt-right come into

existence

it was in its proto

evolution okay let's look let's look up

the term

alt-right all right term alt-right was

coined

when i think

2014 maybe oh so you're saying that

someone took a time machine and and

went back to 2004. because you

completely reject dialectics hold up

what is wait we're kidding wait hold on

okay okay are you forgetting your theory

come on wait wait wait what does that

have to do with dialectics the alt-right

didn't exist in 2004

the group of people and what they did in

the cultural

you know the genesis of the alt-right

existed no one did it

no it didn't it existed in the dialect

no that's literally not true that's

demographically not true the alt-right

actually formed out of discontented

means again haas tell us what dialect

well we don't have to bring up

dialectics right now and don't worry

we're going to get the dialect dialectic

we're going to get the dialectics when

we talk about leptism you said that we

should ignore we should ignore chapo's

stupid memes and focus on their theory

and i want to get to your theory tell us

what dialectic well you keep

interrupting you stupid [ __ ] you dumb

[ __ ] you worthless [ __ ] brainless

stupid little [ __ ] because you keep

[ __ ] interrupting me and he won't let

me talk do i need to meet you little boy

do i need a mutual little boy do i need

a mutual little boy

do i need a mutual little boy

come on

the alt-right demographically came out

of discontented former occupy

ideologists and those groups their age

in 2004 they weren't even [ __ ] old

enough to constitute the alt-right at

that time wrong

no it's not wrong on the ground and

occupy not all white

not all white nationalists were

alt-right white nationalism has existed

since like

you know at least

well and it depends you could say 100

years you could say half a century

whatever

you know since birth of the nation even

before then whatever i don't care what

period you put on this

nazism thank you okay was hitler an

alt-righter

he existed within the dialectic of the

alt-right

since you're mentioning dialectics what

does that mean concretely because i

actually i'm going to call your bluff

that you don't know what the [ __ ] you're

talking about come on

no no what but i'll let you all

the burden of you is to explain what you

mean you said something you said it is

it was part of the dialectical uh

history of the alt-right what does that

mean concretely

you have the

existence

of a thing as you observe it today

you you've you look at

what

it its context in culture and history

you look at what it will become

you can you consider the the truth

behind the thing okay

let me stop you right there

you just said a bunch of meaningless

word salad [ __ ] diarrhea [ __ ]

actually what you're implying since i'm

gonna like spit it out for you because

you don't even have two [ __ ] brain

cells to rub together to express what

you actually intend to what you actually

mean to say is that the alt-right is an

eternal platonic form that has existed

forever as an uncreated divine existence

since the beginning of creation so to

speak and that it has merely evolved in

different ways across time and history

and context but that's precisely the

opposite of dialectics dialectic says

that there's a dialectic of content and

form which means that forms don't exist

forever in the same form there's a

dialectic such that forms disappear and

they arise and they disappear and they

arise such as the only real essence that

survives across history is precisely the

contradiction itself that's what

dialectics is

so so you and i both said something that

is wildly different from the definition

but yet both of them

inhabit the essence of the definition

which is

the metaphysical contradictions

and the solutions okay how does

dialectics justify the claim that hitler

participated in the alt-right

well

because of the cultural influence of the

right the cultural influence of

nationalism fascism and all these

related topics

within the alt-right but but you're

saying imminently speaking you're saying

imminently speaking like hitler himself

was part of the alt-right

no

you said that

okay so it was hitler part of the

alt-right or not imminently speaking

no okay so now he's not okay we got that

so why is bloom chin's music imminently

speaking part of the alt-right after

2004 as you said because it was co-opted

but that has nothing to do with

imminence

you know what imminence means

i clearly don't because you keep using

that word can you google it for me

google the word imminence on google

that's called how do you spell that i m

a n

a and c i think or e and c

yeah that's not a [ __ ] word uh you

you want imminence

a imminence

i m m e

sorry i m

a

n e

n c e

look it up

that's why both of those come up as

words that's interesting okay i because

my autocorrect put me i don't give a

[ __ ] can you read it right nice nice

uh the doctrine or theory of eminence

holds that the divine encompasses or is

manifest no look up the definition of

the not don't look up the doctrine of

imminence on wikipedia look up what

imminence means the definition of being

inherent exclusively existing within

something okay so it basically means

that something is within itself

not taken from an external perspective

yeah and i keep saying no and you don't

believe me

okay but you just said that after 2000

you said a number of things you said one

the alt-right existed in 2004 two

that

any use of the word any use of the song

by bloom chan after 2004 was imminently

an alt-right meme no

i did not use those words what did you

say specifically

i said it was co-opted by the alt-right

wait wait but if i

rewind and i when i said

when did it imminently become i asked

you when did it imminently become an

alt-right meme and you said after 2004

basically answering the question which

was loaded with the assumption that it

was imminent

you had a sneaky you made an error

because you're a little [ __ ] and you're

a [ __ ] and i [ __ ] dominated you

you've got your ninja adjectives and you

want to redefine your definition so that

we don't i don't listen listen listen

carl carl carl your skull i'm in your

skull right now your skull there's a

hole in your skull right now and i'm

making myself comfortable there

you understand carl

sorry what

of course you understand

now carl let's get back to the point

if it's not true which is now what

you're claiming

that the song is not imminently an

alt-right meme why are you justified in

making the assumption

what we've resolved this right we've

resolved this no we haven't resolved it

yet carl

you said after 2004

it became an alt-right

what does that mean does co-op mean

imminently change the substance of the

song itself

so if that's not what it means how can

you be justified in attributing any

use of the song to be a dog whistle to

the so-called alt-right which we

actually haven't established even

existed

at that time in history

i i justify it by my existence here

today

what does that mean i'd like to i'd like

to thank uh the chinese communist party

for planning to build 160 nuclear

reactors in china yeah nuclear is based

but they're not eliminating oil you know

that right well

they have no plans to that they will

reduce oil use okay but they have no

plans on eliminating it because they

care for their citizens they actually

care for them well they just want to

reduce pollution for their own citizens

and you need to reduce oil consumption

so carl carl carl you're pivoting really

hard and we're still we still haven't uh

gotten to where you can justify making

that clip that you did you asked me

about my justification and it's in the

utility of being here

what does that mean

it's in the utility of being here

it's your justification is in the use of

being here

yes

how how does that make any sense

i'm telling you i'm a [ __ ] climber

man

that's what i'm telling you you're a

cloud chaser oh you did it for attention

yes i'm admitting i'm fully conceding

the point of the debate that is the

entire point

oh so you're just gonna surrender and

submit to me like a [ __ ] no no that

that's that that was the entire

justification the whole time

was to come on the show

right

so you also take back the thing about uh

how attacking other leftists

i i don't really [ __ ] care about

chapo i i really don't like them

okay

so carl

i don't know what sense of manhood you

had before coming on here but i just

took your manhood

which means which means carl carl

your magic juju juice that like you know

like if you feel like you know you have

some kind of swagger around women before

if you had any

i took it all i took it all from you

i took it all from you

which means now which means now you

don't have an ounce of manhood left in

your body and in your soul oh no

oh no yeah

are you single

i'm married you're married your wife's

going to cheat on when are you when are

you moving in after this debate your

wife's cheating on you trust me

with you

can i not watch no

oh [ __ ]

but i'm just telling you she's going

gonna cheat on you after this debate you

lost your manhood

you know that can happen right you can

lose your manhood

what if it happened before

i bet it did happen before but whatever

bit of it you regained you lost

entirely

and it's not going to come back

all right

infrared and carl's manhood there we go

how old are you carl so are you i'm old

which is which means what

older than 40. so where'd you share that

clip

um i think i shared it

[ __ ] where did i share it i think i

shared it on dgg

really you shared it on dgg wait and

you're a leftist

uh i'm an independent

so you're not a leftist

i don't know i i don't really know what

that means are you a socialist

um

i'm not

really clear what that means oh you're

like an indecisive [ __ ] you can't just

own up to anything again this really

sucks is what i know wait so i know okay

you're a lefty right so you went in

virtue signal to dgg

who hate you people

not as much as i do but they [ __ ]

hate you people

and your people hate them

and you went and begged them my people

you went to go beg to suck their dick

just to come at me

so much for left unity carl

are you a leftist is is that your does

your definition of leftism include both

me and you

uh i hate american leftists and canadian

ones

i mean i i've and british

and they were pretty nice to me they

talked to me about nuclear it was really

based oh they they the ccp usa here in

seattle talked to me about nuclear

there's no such thing as the ccp usa

uh the communist party in the usa the

people who the cp usa the the falun gong

oh is that

they're not related to the chinese party

so chinese communism is different from

american communism

the cpusa is a changing party so i don't

know it's not related to the chinese

communist party so they're different

yeah it is it's part of the same

international uh affiliation

okay

okay that that's clear

so nuclear is your ultimate culp

right because otherwise we're going to

[ __ ] uh fill up the atmosphere with

uh carbon dioxide we're going to be

above uh 500 ppm and we're going to get

like you know oh you know exactly how

the climate works do you know exactly

how the climate works

i don't know exactly i know a [ __ ] of a

lot for someone who plays i don't think

you know anything about how the climate

works i i know of a [ __ ] of a lot about

the how the climate works i don't think

you do

can you tell me what a sankey diagram is

yeah i don't think people who know what

sankey diagrams know how the climate

works either can you tell me how albedo

works no

can you tell me how infrared

radiation works

uh actually

i do know a little bit about that

oh god

i'm happy for you uh so yeah so so when

in when heat travels to

the ground level of earth and then

becomes heat and then becomes emitted

into the upper atmosphere

what prevents it from escaping into

space

carbon dioxide

that's what it is yeah but

no yeah i get that it's just that i just

think people don't really know as much

about the climate as they think they do

like is it not a giant chemistry set is

it not like we're all here on this one

earth

with

the atmosphere contained by gravity

and all circulating around i i do i do

recognize there's a measurable climate

change and a warming of the climate

change and that it makes sense that

there's a man-made uh

contribution to that

but

i don't think people really know

what if there's countervailing

tendencies

um

if there's other factors we're just not

aware of if our assumptions about the

nature of thermodynamics can hold water

forever i just you know i'm more

open-minded i just don't think you know

everything we we have conducted an

experiment where we have raised the co2

content of our atmosphere

and the temperature has traveled with it

since 1850 yeah i get that

no i get that i get that but

i get that the temperature has been

rising corresponding

to um

[Music]

the uh

emission of carbon dioxide into the

atmosphere i get that

but

and by the way i'm not i'm not even like

literate on anti-climate

anti-uh sorry

so-called climate denial i don't even

know the other side of the story is what

i'm trying to say so i'm just rolling

with the assumption

i'm just rolling with the assumption

that the the the predominant narratives

are correct right i'm not even

challenging them but even with that

i don't think you know enough to say

that

that's simply the end of the story that

it's just the climate's just going to

continue to heat up

and it's going to heat up to a breaking

point that will lead to the complete

apocalypse of everything on earth i mean

there's you know have you are you aware

of uh

but that's not actually what the

literature says

and we just had a new report that came

out this year it's called the ipcc

wg6 sorry wg2 a r6

that's wg2 ar6 yeah

i would i would tell your chat about it

if i wasn't banned in chat i would post

a link but i'm banned in your phone you

can't post links anyway so shut the [ __ ]

up and stop bitching about it describe

it to your chat and then they could go

[ __ ] google it

okay

so

what what about this report is relevant

to what i said

because it describes the systems it

describes uh the the agreement in

evidence

uh it shows us what parts of the world

that there's strong evidence for climate

change resulting in weather pattern

changes and what parts of the world are

okay did i deny that climate change has

a man-made contribution

you said that we didn't understand i

don't think we understand the full

effects it's going to have on the

climate or about how the climate works

all we know is that the

heat

all we know is that there has been an

accelerant

um supposedly there has been an

accelerant on

within the past 200 years since the

industrial revolution

in the heating of the planet that's what

we know we don't know like what the full

implications and consequences of that we

don't know the

uh

we don't know like

where that fits within the climate as a

whole

we know that if we allow the climate to

warm

more than 1.5 degrees

to two to about two degrees hotter than

before the industrial revolution we will

lose the last ten percent of the uh

coral reefs it will go they will go from

it ninety percent lost yeah there's too

many there's too many assumptions here

that i just don't buy

sorry i just don't i'm not doing this

agreement high evidence and high

agreement in that piece of evidence it's

because and i'll tell you exactly what

it is listen whenever whenever whenever

you conduct any signs listen whenever

you conduct a scientific uh

examination or hypothesis or theory

you're you're isolating certain

variables which you can be certain about

right

so you always have to involve a finite

number of variables

my only contention and issue is is that

the earth is too complex

to actually match and fit

in a way that you can be absolutely

certain of

the models you're projecting and within

which your experiments are being

conducted and within which you're

reaching the conclusions that you are

i'm not denying that the evidence if in

the theory you know the experiments and

examinations you're doing that there's

like a correlation between the

hypothesis and the evidence all i guess

stuff but you're not understanding that

that's all finite

you don't have enough you don't have

enough information in my view

no no this is the incompleteness theorem

you're talking about no it's not the

incompleteness theory

within a closed system no it's not the

[ __ ] it's not the [ __ ] uh

godo's whatever incompleteness that's

not what i'm talking about

it is when we are within a limited

system we have bounds to our

observations and the reproducibility

that's not what it means that's not what

it means either hold on that's not what

it means either if you try to go outside

that system yes that's not gordo's

incompleteness that's not what godot's

incompleteness means nor was that what i

was referring to come on google it for

me then

i'm not i don't need to go google it

because i know what godot's

incompleteness

is got it correct

dodge all goals incompleteness says

is that

if i remember correctly

um

there's no airtight system there's no

airtight axiomatic uh system that a

system is always going to have an

exception within it that can't be

accounted for within the system itself

that's the extent of uh that's basically

the simplification i'm familiar with but

i wasn't talking about why did you bring

up something i wasn't even talking about

no because it's related

no it's not related the only thing i'm

trying to say is that your paradigm of

understanding the climate and the planet

may be limited or flawed

why how is it flawed

um i don't know there's so many loaded

assumptions like for example about

how the climate how the earth's uh how

the climate the earth's surface

uh the ecosystems within the earth how

all of these things work i just don't

buy the idea that scientists have

mastered this

but you do agree and the reason the

reason i don't buy it

here's why i can't buy that scientist at

mass for this because i'm looking at

the explanatory value

of the paradigms they're using and being

able to explain to us

how

these things came into being in the

first place like how do ecosystems

develop in the first what's their origin

how does the climate in ecosystems and

the um the lower layers of how all of

these things interact i just scientists

are nowhere near a position of being

able to really understand that there's a

lot of hypothesis is there's a lot of

conflicting hypothesis

but ultimately you know they just

i don't i think when you make these like

big claims like oh the science is

showing where it's the words the end of

the world i don't buy it i don't think

you know enough

uh

to be able to come to those conclusions

i i certainly personally don't i do know

some scientists in

climate change who in geology in nuclear

physics uh and and i'd be happy to tell

you more about these people uh i know

i'm talking to you right now

right okay well i know that i'm not an

authority on these subjects either but i

speak to these people i sp and so i

guess you're just gonna have to trust me

bro like that's all i'm not gonna trust

you you you already prove that you say

things just to get clout so you're not a

trustworthy or a credible person but i

admitted it didn't i told the truth and

that's truth telling and there's there's

no value in your moral system for

truth-telling is that is that you wait

how do i know you're telling the truth

you do not because i told you

well you told me that because i got you

in a corner that you couldn't get out of

no you just had to ask me you didn't

have to put me in a corner you just had

to ask but i got you in a corner you

couldn't even escape so you just

submitted it didn't have to show up here

i actually rearranged my schedule that's

that's like saying when like uh

when khabib has mcgregor in a [ __ ]

headlock or something and he taps out

that

that that that mcgregor was being honest

mcgregor was being honest about tapping

that's great yeah he didn't have a

choice dude

you have nothing on me in a headlock you

you barely have like three times the

followers that i do on twitter uh i

don't really stream on twitch i mean

you've got a twitch following but i hell

i roll with some of these streamers just

like you uh i'm happy with my position i

didn't need to be here i'm happy to be

but you said the only reason you're here

you said you said the entire reason for

your actions was to be here

right

and you put me on and i thank you for

your platform and hey if you unban me

i'll give you a three month sub

i don't want a three month sub from you

how about a six month sub no i don't

want anything from you okay

that's fine

that's it that's really pathetic that

you're offering me money too

yeah

it's your choice you could we could make

great content together man

no we're not gonna make any we're not

making any content together i'll be on

tiberius dee's channel later tonight

i don't know who the [ __ ] that is that's

all right he was here before you

okay

so

you're still coping about the fact that

you know oil is not going anywhere right

uh i know that definitely we will uh we

will pretty much burn the environment

out before oil is gone when you think

that's gonna happen

uh i i don't think it's gonna happen

because i think we're building enough

clean energy to to sort of escape uh the

the heat death of the planet no we're

not we're not so when is the world going

to end whoa whoa whoa whoa you said you

said before that you weren't sure about

this and now you're sure no i'm

operating under your assumption right

just for you

you don't even know what my assumptions

are your assumption is that the world is

going to end unless we move to cleaner

energy we're not moving

we're not moving to cleaner energy

nearly as fast enough according to your

own models so what is the world gonna

end

fast enough to preserve the coral reefs

that's one thing

we need to move faster china based

building 160 nuclear reactors that's the

right speed

china probably you know to be honest

with you it's more likely that china's

pursuing alternative energy to [ __ ] the

petro dollar not not because they

believe in dooms they have no tears for

the petrol dollar we we can we can and

capitalize yeah but it's it's

geopolitics it's geopolitics

i'm perfectly fine by that but yeah

anyway what i was trying to say to you

is um

assuming that you're wrong in your

optimism when is the world gonna end

oh uh probably about four billion years

from now when the sun engulfs when is

when is uh the life when is the planet

going to be uninhabitable for human

beings

in about four billion years that's when

that's not even true

like scientifically speaking that's not

when do you think the sun is going to

envelop the orbit the earth is projected

to be unhabitable for human beings

much before it becomes enveloped by the

sun

so i don't know where you got the idea

that it's going to be four billion did

you read that in what report did you

read that in

look it up

no i i did i've read all the ipcc

reports in the last five years and there

none of that shit's in there when will

the planet be

uninhabitable for

humans um

oh is it going to be like some freaking

leftoid

conspiracy website so the planet

uh it could be as little as 150 million

years let's see

planetary habitability

um

a high obliquity would probably result

in dramatic change in the climate and

may destroy the planet's habitability

yeah it's not going to be in four years

dude i mean four billion years

well that no well you asked me when it

was going to be completely uninhabitable

i think that you know okay when when is

the climate apocalypse gonna happen

what define apocalypse come on man

it means a complete breakdown in the

world's ecosystems and the destruction

of most life on earth and all that

we could

in the worst case scenario if we uh

eliminated nuclear energy and gave up on

renewable energy and started uh

quadrupling the amount of fossil fuels

produced uh we might have some runaway

situation and this is in

wg3 ar6

we might see

uh

something like that in about 400 years

oh who cares then

that's a [ __ ] republican talking

point right there that's 400 years from

now who gives a [ __ ] yeah yeah who [ __ ]

gives like like i've reproduced i

certainly care have you reproduced

why but why are we all getting worked up

why are we all getting worked up about

something that's going to happen in 400

years under the conditions that you have

said we're going to be the worst

possible scenario

you said that would be the worst in the

worst case

it's in 400 years why are we making that

why is there so much alarmism right now

then

politics

i'm i'm guessing because that's that's

the big republican talking point is that

it's all fake uh we shouldn't be acting

so quickly we don't need to act well i'm

listening to you you've said under the

worst

conditions

it's gonna be in 400 years what about

greta thunder and all that

[ __ ] yeah

she said she said we're destroying the

planet

well we are

and if we destroy the planet less

quickly it'll so it's but you said on in

the worst case scenario we're going to

destroy it in 400 years right but we're

still we're slowly destroying the planet

you know do you know what a budget is do

do you have to budget your money or you

you another yeah i'm saying [ __ ] the

planet i don't give a [ __ ] about the

planet but we were all supposed to care

because this is gonna happen like in

five years or something right

uh well so the the the five years or the

twelve years thing that's 20 30 that's

not actually the deadline that's the

first benchmark date and this is what a

lot of people when's the deadline wrong

the dead well okay so there's kind of a

deadline by 2050. let's say that's the

first deadline there's the deadlines

always change right but yeah they do

there's there's 20 50 there's 2100 and

then uh you know by 2100 if we haven't

figured this [ __ ] out uh we're probably

not going to be able to change our

trajec trajectory yeah but i'm going to

be dead by then right and so is everyone

here

yeah i'm i think i'm going to be dead by

2050.

okay

uh i don't care

and

so

[Music]

shatter donated five dollars do you know

why russia and china don't care okay

here's a good question thank you chatter

have all of their most populated [ __ ]

cities on the coastlines the planet will

be fine the people are [ __ ] no but

he's saying it's not true so when are

the oceans gonna rise and swallow those

coastal cities

um

it depends which coastal city you're

talking about the the most populated

ones that matter

um

[Music]

at our current trajectory

uh we'll see things like uh around

between 2050 and 2100

we will see things like king tides that

cover the miami airport

king tides

yeah that's the maximum that's like a

really big tide that happens if you if

you've ever lived on the coast you know

what a camp tide is

so

it's uh so miami's going to be gone 2050

to between 2050 and 2100 no more miami

well they might still exist they just

might have to move off of the strip

right so it's just the airport is the

issue

well the airport's pretty far inland i

mean like this is like miami's moving

like uh three or four miles to the west

okay they can have miami i don't care

what about uh

what about like other cities

yeah i'd have to look it up miami's is

the one i know because it's a really

good talking point

okay

so all this so we have to stop eating

hamburgers

because in 400 years in the worst case

scenario

uh if you

switch your meat consumption from beef

to chicken or pork or uh you know

synthetic

substance you are massively reducing the

co2 footprint of your consumption who

cares about co2 footprint

you're well that we're talking about the

climate okay if i dig a hole in the

ground and fart in it is there no co2

going to be released and i dig the whole

i fart in the hole and i cover the hole

inconsequential if you eat four grams of

chicken

versus four grams of beef you are saving

like ninety percent of the co2 if you if

you keep using if you keep eating

chicken instead well who cares

okay

who cares yeah 400 years who cares i'll

be dead

freaking jim in hoffman no we'll figure

something out by then 400 years

you'll love this conversation we're

going to end up on the joe rogan show

look infrared

it's in 400 years we'll figure something

out before then

400 years we'll we'll be [ __ ] uh

we will have revived magic or something

i don't know 400 years in a long time

dude

i'm not worried about

i will find a way to survive in 400

years

i'm not i'm not like down with the

fairies and dragons i mean i'm a nerd

but i don't think it's real man yeah but

we're probably gonna to like rediscover

we're probably going to like rewrite

everything we know about

electromagnetism and nuclear science and

you know all this kind of physics it'll

be too late it'll still no our

understanding of physics as we know it

will be completely changed by then

that's a wild thing to hope no it's not

i'll use you we don't even know anything

about electromagnetism we stole the

thermodynamics all the stuff we take for

granted we actually don't they're not

actually consistent did you do you

believe in the second law of

thermodynamics

i read your stuff and uh man this gets

me so heated i i just don't you actually

believe in the second law of

thermodynamics

it's it is pretty well established man

then it doesn't line up with the um

inconsistencies between statistical

thermodynamics

and uh practical thermodynamics

have you ever been to

the ligo facility

no is there big [ __ ] there the place

it is it is not far from where i live i

in fact had a live stream from ligo a

while ago it is a place where

we use the fundamental forces of the

universe to detect colliding black holes

that's i don't care there's no such

thing

if you think that the second law of

thermodynamics is [ __ ]

[ __ ] you should go talk to those

engineers it has been disproven no you

you gotta go talk to the people who are

actually using it every day to do

science because no you you have to

explain it to me okay tell them to come

on tell them to come in vc and explain

it to me i'm not gonna go to them who

are they [ __ ] busy

who are they they probably believe in

genes they really think jeans are real

yeah they probably do yeah [ __ ]

dumbasses what do i care what they think

yeah

cool

probably think mendel is still uh

correct

what

yeah exactly mendel mendeloid

what

yeah exactly we really think mendel was

like a real scientist and he was right i

think i i remember mendicino i remember

california i i don't want to go back

there

you probably think mendel is correct

what

are you talking about the scientist

mendel yes

oh

what

he was disproven long ago

i i've this is some weird [ __ ] trash

talk man gregor mendel what the [ __ ] was

full of [ __ ]

i i don't doubt it

and you you you actually believe in

science like you you think these

scientists know what they're talking

about don't you

uh i believe i don't believe people i

believe evidence and so the person shows

me evidence uh i tend to

sympathize with them i tend to have you

seen the evidence of the inconsistencies

of the second law of thermodynamics

i have not have you oh look it up

no i i have you

yes i have and who who showed it to you

and and how did that how did they go

thank you

jnr i've seen the evidence myself

i've seen the inconsistencies myself

it is an experiment experiment that you

can repeat

yes

is it something like from zerka because

i brought all people

experiment to him and he [ __ ] flip

wouldn't even hear it what experiment

uh you you you launch a drone at sunset

and you can get a double sunset

so

and and that proves the earth is round

okay

and

you think lysenko was wrong

i have no idea

okay

and

you you believe in like the big bang and

stuff right

uh i think that

we have some point in the past

in history uh where we cannot observe

past because yeah so how can you say

that that's the beginning of the

universe

i i don't say it's the beginning of the

universe i say it's the beginning of the

observable you probably believe in the

multiverse theory

uh i don't know uh i i'm not sure about

uh

the different models of quantum

mechanics uh i i watch a little bit of

pbs space time and there's like

whether or not you can do faster than

light data transmission using these and

and it it seems like uh like multiverse

would mean that that's impossible do you

even know what the ultraviolet

catastrophe is

the

ultraviolet are you talking about like

the uh

the the

phantom gravity collapse or whatever

that is the ultra violet catastrophe

you don't even know what it is

i i mean

have you have you heard half the [ __ ]

that i'm talking about i mean

measuring dicks now

yeah you're just the fake scientist so

you know what they're talking about

this is a wild one okay what is the

origin of the discovery of the so-called

uh

the uh this the

nuclear

orbiting atoms

what's the origin of

atoms being conceived as or okay first

of all do you think electrons are real

yeah show me an electron show me i'm not

sure

i saw the stream i saw this stream was

boring as [ __ ] uh i i can talk to you

about nuclear i can talk about nuclear

yeah we're talking about atoms right now

you think electrons are real when

nuclear fission was discovered how it

was discovered all that stuff that's my

specialty you you know what is an

electron define it uh

an electron is a fundamental particle

that's a part of the atom that's a

composition of three quarks uh has a

negative one unit charge uh relative to

the positrons positive one unit charge

is a ma a really really small mass like

basically it's like [ __ ] pocket

change to an atom is how small its mass

is so what is the electron itself

it's a composition of

no it's not a composition you can't say

when you divide something and manipulate

it that it's a composition of the result

and atoms all atoms are are compositions

of subatomic particles and all those

subatomic yeah the particle you're these

you still have an atomic paradigm of

atoms which

proves to me you don't even know what

you're talking about

compositions of quarks so that i mean

this is particles quarks are you so

quarks

are not imminent existences they're a

result of measurements just like atoms

themselves as well as all the subatomic

particles you and me are the result of

measurements

no we're not the result of measurements

you dumb [ __ ] that's what you don't

that's what you scientards don't

understand we are not the result of

measurements web camera and that web

camera is

presenting yeah i am not reducible to

the [ __ ] camera second of all no the

the camera does not constitute a

measurement

the camera does not constitute no it

doesn't okay measurement is an

intervention in reality

it doesn't it's not simply a way of uh

you know like recording or reflecting as

a mirror the true nature of reality it

literally intervenes in reality and

changes it

i'm sorry i'm writing the marker a

camera

is an intervention

not a measurement

no

the opposite the camera and measurement

is an intervention a camera is not a

measurement until it's placed within the

context of

an experiment or some kind of

measurement of reality by a subjective

human being imminently speaking a camera

is not a measurement of anything

the product of that camera is a

measurement

that's what i'm talking about no keep up

no

the product insofar as it serves as a

measurement

the output of the web camera is how i am

seeing you that doesn't make it a

measurement you dumb [ __ ]

a measurement begins and ends somewhere

for usually for a reason for a specific

reason

your nose ends at my eyes no

that's not that doesn't constitute a

[ __ ] measurement that doesn't

constitute a measurement okay when you

put your hands over your eyes do you

even know what a measurement is

isn't the [ __ ] perception you dumbass

measurements are measured in abstract

quantities that's what a measurement

means

i'm going to quantize you how do you

think that you're saying you're not

quantifying me that's why it's not a

[ __ ] measurement

just because you're perceiving me my

camera works the ccd

captures photons quantizes them encodes

them transmits them over the internet

that's how all of this works yeah that

doesn't imminently make it a measurement

imminent

yeah

it's only measured it's only a

measurement when it's being measured by

someone

is is imminent like your safe word for

like i don't know what i'm talking about

i usually have to use that word for

scientars who don't understand that the

way they describe reality and reality

itself aren't actually the same thing

i think you're hiding behind that word

can you get through a stream without

using the word imminent

uh can you get through a stream without

being a soy little [ __ ]

i am that's what i am oh you're not

one's in the chat if he's not you are

the shod

i am the soy

you are so i have an emo i was i was

designated soy i have the domain

soyadol.com you type in soyal.com right

now you will come to me on the stream

talking to you right now i am yeah you

don't have to you don't you don't you

don't have to persuade us of that don't

worry

you don't have to persuade us of that

so

is science a cope for all of like the

things in life that lets you so we're an

atheist right

yeah

and science is basically how you find

meaning in the world after you lost it

all

no i think i have fun i i think think

there's a lot you think reality is

meaningless

no i think it has a great deal of

meaning i think like no no no no

how does it have meaning

well we're talking to one another what's

the meaning of being here

in reality

in reality what's the meaning of reality

what's the meaning of all creation and

all being meaning of reality reality is

it is it is what i perceive and it is

what what i

get out of the world is that i exist and

i think and i am

and here i am

it is what does that mean what does that

mean what i observe

it is

it is the the now it is the

what's his face the um

the

i forget that writer

that talked about the

[Music]

uh basically memes basically the origin

of memes is is what is now it's what

what's happening what's it we're

interacting we're producing something

we we are that is real what does that

mean

i just explained it to you so this is

your metaphysical absolute a bunch of

word salad nonsense this is your god i

was not i was i'm not an expert in

metaphysics like you clearly are yeah

well you well i'll tell you what you are

you're basically like a guy who

takes for granted everyone else's uh

metaphysical assumptions and you just

take that to be like a holy religious

truth

i don't think that medical physical

assumptions are genuinely so did science

make you feel comfy and secure that like

you know the world and you're safe from

it because you know it i think that

science lets me know

that if i don't slow down before i get

to the bottom of the hill i'm gonna

[ __ ] die that's what that's so who

cares what's the meaning of life why

does life matter why is life worth

living why should we fear death life

matters because

i know that i will not exist beyond

death i will not have a memory who cares

hold on who cares

i care

why

because i exist

so what

i have survival because i i have this um

you know not just instinctive but

intellectual

interest in surviving

why

because i want to why

i i'm telling you i want to survive why

why because

otherwise

there is nothing

and there's nothing anyway you're just

admitting there's nothing anyway no i

either something [ __ ] exists right

now

what is this

uh the microphone in front of me the

mouse so your whole life is for the

microphone

um no i i mean it is becoming a lot of

fun it's it's definitely enjoyable and

uh

and i and i thank you for this time this

has been uh

so let me let me let me tell you what

you don't live because of a survival

instinct or because you just want to or

for an intellectual reason you live

because you serve a cause

unconsciously

that you are blindly devoted to and are

unable to even articulate on explicit

terms

because you're basically like a soy [ __ ]

like you believe in the mainstream

ideology of our ruling society

but you lack the necessary uh capacity

of criticism to even know

what it is you're living for

and i have been you know just

brainwashed by the mainstream society

and i need to you know rise up and

follow the infrared infrared is rising

all that stuff

in order to cure myself of this brain no

i just think you should be honest about

what it is you really do believe in

what what do you suppose that is

what do you believe in

yeah what do you think

i think you believe in

you believe

here's what you believe in

you believe in

the authority

of

the institutions that rule our society

i i kind of don't like

the authority of the institutions like

i'm i like i i live less than a quarter

mile from the chazz from the the capitol

hill protest here in seattle yeah i see

so what do you think about let's talk

about that what do you think of chaz

uh well first you have to understand the

origins of chaz uh it was a police

walkout

and we found the evidence

there was an evidence that the um you

know chief

best uh basically

walked out delegated to a lieutenant and

the lieutenant basically said okay

we're going to move all the evidence out

of the east precinct uh and then at some

point

the command came down because

he didn't want to [ __ ] allow

protesters in front of the east precinct

uh and he he threw a

a maga fit

and said that it was unacceptable and

then they decided

as a unit as a force unit to

to evacuate the east precinct uh and the

lieutenant on staff i forget his dumb

name uh he

used the justification of the arson

threat

and later on there actually was an arson

attempt

and my community my community prevented

that arson from taking that building

because that's our building because our

taxes paid for it is a community okay

the the cops left so what do you think

about chas the capitol hill autonomous

zone

uh i i think it was a a little mimi like

the name autonomous zone yeah was

literally a meme and was meaningless

but what do you think about the the

garden they made

oh uh i'm i met farmer he's he's a

decent dude

they said the garden this garden is for

black and indigenous people only and

they're plant allies

i didn't hear well okay allies that was

the sign they had it

i i didn't see that sign and i met

farmer and so i'm sure that like do you

think it was a good farm

no i just knew him by the by the

nickname farmer

uh

so

what about the lynching of two black

teenagers

there was no lynching

there was

there was gunfire there was were they

not shot and killed

there was one execution by an unknown

individual and there was one uh personal

conflict uh outside of the ball field

actually just wait the two black

teenagers were in the car and were

killed

by the chazz

yes that was the ex well we don't know

who it was there was two executions

yeah

no the in the car the second person

survived and i think that we found uh i

think we found the person they were from

uh south of seattle they weren't even a

seattle resident the person who who did

the mur the merc killing of those kids

who who drove through the ball we i

actually saw the footage and it was

literally the chas

i would love a link to that i would love

it yeah they were they had guns they

were walking around with their rifles

and they covered for each other after it

happened sounds like

different unrelated footage

i saw the footage of the car when after

he died and they were all huddled around

him

and they had guns on them

love to see it

you you could you could i can't show it

on stream because it's tos no you can't

so you're denying the lynchings are you

so you deny lynchings now i don't think

it was uh can you call it a lynching yes

can you actually call it yes because it

was a bunch of white people in jazz

who definitely literally executed black

teenagers from outside the community

lynching defined lynching

a racially motivated execution of two

black

individuals of a black person is

lynching any any execution any racially

motivated

yes uh i don't know if it was racially

motivated yeah it was

i don't know how i can prove it

go ahead

because the culture of leftists antifa

is from white people and when outsiders

who are black came because they came

from a different culture and didn't care

about their dumb

you know [ __ ]

they um

they executed him

as an outsider just like in the old

times you're telling me you're telling

me that

they didn't kill farmer they killed

someone else

yeah

okay

i mean this is this is why all this is

like i'm talking to lauren southern

again

um

well she would be more honest than you

are then that much is very clear

if you say so

this is some wild stuff man

yeah um

as we can see

you are very willing to tear down other

leftists and that's why we started this

conversation and i'm glad that why do i

owe anything to other leftists that's

what i want to know it's like why do i

owe anything to them

well if if you are here for the

revolution

wait wait in that revolution what what

revolution were you are you talking

about which one

the the difference the jazz one

the defeat of capitalism you're either

here for the defeat of capitalism

okay what does the defeat of capitalism

what does the defeat of capitalism look

like in real life what does that look

like

oh in real life

yeah that's that's a great question i

think that uh we would have uh

very little political influence from

uh from people who hold

capital okay

carl carl from a to b

from a to b from a to b

you said these people i'm attacking are

the decisive elements who are going to

lead oh no to the defeat of god you're

trying to [ __ ] ninja in

an adjective that i didn't use okay you

said that i i if i'm for the revolution

yes that i would not be attacking other

leftists

uh i think that you would support them

in some limit yeah okay

so and you define the which implies that

these other people are necessary for

said revolution and said revolution

they are contributing to the

contributing to the revolution sure and

said revolution means the defeat of

capitalism so i want to know how you get

how are you getting from a to b in what

way are they contributing to the defeat

of capitalism that's a different

question how are we going to get to the

revolution and i actually actually

no carl you said if i was for the

so-called revolution which we're

implying is a real thing not something

that exists in thin air

that

i would not be attacking other leftists

right

my question is how

that's it

how can that be true

because if you are

dismantling the seeds of the revolution

you are controlled opposition

what can you prove to me that these are

seeds of the revolution in the first

place

is not

every

every revolutionary act a seed of the

revolution

uh

what would you define as a revolutionary

act

holding a space and ejecting

imperialist okay

holding a space that's a good example

like chaz right

so

holding a space

in no way

constitutes

as far as i can see a revolutionary act

it does not contribute to the defeat of

capitalism in any meaningful sense

people told me you were a class

reductionist i told them they were liars

and now i feel like a fool i feel like

you know holding

all praxis hostage for a violent

revolution is just disgusting it is

actually controlled opposition it is

going to

defeat listen you are the one who

introduced the phrase revolution into

this conversation so i'm just trying to

understand

what the [ __ ] we're talking about you

pretend you're a revolutionary but i

think you're controlled opposition

i think you're an um

i'm a conservative revolutionary

oh um

is that different from a color

revolution

uh no it just basically means that i

don't see revolution as a voluntary act

i see it as an imminent fact of

reality itself that there are

revolutions in the forces of production

and that political revolutions

are the way in which that social

revolution in the forces of production

find expression

uh so far as the state is concerned

and

taken in that sense

a so-called revolution is a very

conservative affair

it doesn't involve some kind of like

voluntary you know

occupying a space or maybe doing some

melodrama it involves having a correct

insight into the reality that actually

already exists

what do you do in your revolution

you're saying words and you're not

saying what you do well the the the idea

that

you

you want to continue interrupting me

go ahead

the idea that you do the idea that

i didn't hear anything you said the idea

that you do something for the revolution

implies that you're not already doing

stuff right so it's a matter of you're

already doing things so what things are

you gonna do and what things are you not

gonna do and actually not doing the

things that you're already doing are

just as

meaningful as doing something from

scratch

in other words sit in my gaming chair

i'm a revolutionary

well would you prefer if i move the

gaming chair to uh chas and sit and sit

in chad's instead

hold the rifle don't

if i don't move if i don't go to work

i'm a revolutionary

to be honest if americans didn't go to

work

that would be a political revolution 100

percent

rise up

i mean literally it's literally true if

americans just stopped going to work

that would lead

to a revolutionary situation 100 percent

you're saying that all gamers are all

right so basically you're

you're you're bad jacketing all of your

potential revolutionaries

why you know what bad jacketing is

i didn't say gamers i said white male

devs

encoders in general are the demographic

of the alt-right so that one one of you

come and accuse me of being alt-right

who's an arab from metro detroit

you know you're shooting yourself in the

foot

i didn't introduce

i didn't begin this by accusing you of

being alt-right would we begun this by

you accusing me of that

no no incorrect i accused you of using

an alt-right meme

yeah and you conceded and said that you

only did it for cloud

right that's right

yeah so

you talk about words like revolution but

they don't actually mean anything in

real life

it it it means the defeat of capitalism

which we didn't really get to you wanted

to talk so even even then

even when you're pressed to even define

what that means you can only define it

negatively

i it means the defeat of the thing i've

convinced myself

i don't like okay what is capitalism on

what is capitalism

capitalism is the you know using

uh

monetary value or some other thing

in order to acquire a means of

production which you least to a worker

and then you require that worker to to

to give you a product of their labor in

order to continue accessing the means of

production

that's why that's capitalism

i just talked about the means of

production

i don't i i heard that but i didn't i

don't see how that's capitalism

specifically

i used money to buy a thing and said hey

if you work on this thing you give me

most of the value that you make that's

not true continue to have a job

yeah but that's actually not what

capitalism is

oh tell me what capitalism is

so first capital just means

money you use money to make more money

through commodities it's very simple

right that's what capital is the

generation of more money than you

started out with through the use of

commodities that's what capitalism is

one stock market

that's what you know

so you know that cat you know that's

capital capitalism is when stock market

nah

that's capital means

something that generates more money than

it started that was inputted inside of

it yes i i think we we we arrived at the

same definition but i was trying to use

really simple words no you didn't

because you you implied

you implied that in order for completely

you implied that in order for there to

be capital

like there always has to be the

hiring of workers or whatever that's not

true

there's forms of capital that exists

what no show me show me how capitalism

survives without workers

obviously you need workers in the

aggregate sense of the word capitalism

but

that's just not specific enough or

simple enough to describe what

capitalism is

i i think that's the fundamental basis

for describing capitalism because no

it's without workers capitalism

it's not and here's why here's why

because labor is something that's always

existed and all you need to do to

understand the place of labor within

capitalism is apply the same simple

concept so if capital if a capitalist

society

is one in which production occurs or

economic activity occurs primarily for

the purpose of producing money for the

sake of money

then in this case

you could just say labor serves as a

commodity through which the laborer is

going to earn money or

the capitalist through the labor is

going to earn money

it's one in which the labor becomes a

commodity labor itself becomes a

commodity

and it becomes a commodity because the

prime want of life so to speak is not

labor it's money right so you don't need

to

have it be as complex as you said all

you have to say

is

capitalism is one in which

capital

or the pursuit of profit and the pursuit

of money

is the primary want of life and the

economic life in general

that's capitalism

capitalism is when money

um yeah it sounds like you didn't listen

to what i said so i because you said a

lot you're just the bad student jointed

things you you you had a lot of

disjointed words what exactly was

disjointed okay okay have you read

marx's capital money is the thing of

life do you know what mcm is

i got no idea about mca is does it sound

like meaningless and disjointed to you

it uh right now yes okay good because

it's actually uh

it was actually it's actually a formula

actually yeah yeah it's actually a

formula invented by marx

karl marx i don't know if you know the

guy he invented the formula mcm to

describe what capital is

and it means money commodity

and more money money with a

little thing on the end of it

so

that's like a very basic thing in

marxism right

okay

so it's not just money as you're

implying i said it's

economic activity

for the purpose set in motion to produce

more money

right and how is that different from

using the product of someone's labor i

mean i i just define the same thing

because it's inessential because it's

inessential

everything is put into use why is money

essential to capitalism

why because money is the actual ends of

capitalism not the the hiring of labor

explain to me a company company town

then

everything is for-profit in a company

town

the whole reason there's a company town

is because it secures better profits

it's all for money and profit

but you don't actually get legal tender

you don't give legal tender to the

worker you you get the product

i understand but it's the reason for

that is because it saves costs

with within for the company to

ultimately produce more profit for

itself what why is it but what if the

company is just digging a hole why does

it need to involve money

what are you taught then it wouldn't be

a company

it would just be an association of hole

diggers

who are doing it for unknown reasons i

don't know

okay all right all right very

interesting economic theory

are you stupid or something like what

are you clearly clearly what do you mean

why don't they just dig a hole do you

even know what a company is dude

why is

a company the definition of a company

and therefore the definition of

capitalism and

by you dependent on the existence of

money

of course

money is essential to capitalism

i do not see that or understand why it's

because capital itself capital itself

can be defined by the formula mcm

which is money commodity using that

money to invest in a commodity the

selling of that commodity to produce

more money than you started out with

and how is what i said not redefining

money

how have you redefined money

i i said it was a thing i just left it

at that i said a thing to get a to get a

beans of production to give to the

worker and then you take the workers

the value that they produce and you you

take keep why does that happen if we

accept your botched and wrong

description of how it happens

why does it happen words it clearly is

botched so you're saying capitalists

just want the value for

like explicitly or consciously

what do capitalists want what is a

capitalist want

capitalist wants to increase

their value

without expending personal labor

that's not true at all

oh

is it

that's a small capitalist can just be

someone who

doesn't hire any labor and is still a

capitalist you know that right

and they're not exploiting anyone

how how are you how are the exploitation

is um you're using it in a morally

charged way

how are you you how are you a capitalist

without labor

because you are small capitalists so

you're producing things and you're

selling them

you're trading stocks and you're a

capitalist and downstream of those

stocks you're telling me there's no

labor if you're making a business where

you're not hiring anyone it's still a

business

you're a small capitalist still there's

still downstream labor involved

is warren buffett not a capitalist

according to you

absolutely is and there's still labor

involved in his holdings

what labor

warren buffett you're seriously like

the

pacific energy corporation there's labor

involved there

okay and the companies involved on the

stock but in that okay then by that

logic everyone's a capitalist because

there's labor involved and

even even when you buy up even when you

buy a pack of toothpaste laboratories

you're a capitalist i'm a capitalist

i've got a 401k

okay

you still haven't actually demonstrated

why your argument and why your

definition is better than mine

i i it's pedantic really

uh and and i'd be very happy if you're

saying you're saying capitalism is when

you take the means of production from a

worker and

use it to what

to take their value

when you

owning the means of production take the

value from the for what

what for what reason does a capitalist

supposedly own the means of production

in order

oh i'm gonna thanks for the follow

okay um the capitalist

owns the means of production

um

to

entice a worker to

to ask that worker i i think you don't

understand that capitalists don't care

that much about workers they're just

using them for for a reason right

why are they using them

well you wanted me to avoid uh

inflammatory statements and so that's

why i'm trying to dance through your

hoops and if you want me to avoid not

avoid that i can just say capitalists

want to exploit workers and just say

don't you understand oh okay so the

ultimate ends so anyways the ultimate

ends for capitalists is just to exploit

the workers

that's the ends of their activity it is

to get value out of them to use a

non-insurance statement so you're saying

let's uh let's let's do a hypothetical

let's say

there's a factory called big

al's uh

plunger factory right

and this is a

factory with 300 workers in it

okay and big al owns that factory

okay he owns that factory big house 500

pounds and he's you know he's

he's a big fat capitalist and whatever

so big al uh plunger factory

he's got three remember he's employing

300 workers right so big al

is now faced with a choice right his his

factory is you know

not profitable i know that doesn't

matter but it's not profitable

what's profit it's not is it is the

money

i don't know what's profit i guess we

have to debate about that too now what

is profit

i i mean if you want to hedge your

definition on the existence of money

that's fine

i just said it's not

profitable

okay so it's not profitable

um but he's not losing money he's just

you know he's not gaining any new money

right

not gaining as much as he should

he's not gaining any he's just he's just

getting enough to stay afloat basically

stagnating yeah so

big al is now faced with a choice

um big al has got some extra money right

one lucky day

and big al has the choice

to hire

15 new workers

right

now big al's 15 new workers

are not going to

add anything right this is going to be

15 workers and it's going to be the same

result right more or less

or let's say it will add something but

it's going to be like a negligible

edition right he's going to get like

0.1 percent more profit than he

otherwise would right

or he can use the money

to get a machine in which he's going to

lay off 50 workers

now if big al is a what does it mean for

big al to be a good capitalist in this

scenario

it depends if he can afford to piss off

his workers or not because

if they are in a negotiation between

labor and the capitalists then uh those

let's just assume there's no unions

there's no negotiations the workers are

not organized what does it mean for big

al to be a good capitalist in this

scenario

which choice would he choose

he would choose to lay off workers and

get exactly the same but do we have an

issue here because you just defined

uh being a capitalist you just said cap

the ultimate ends and goal of

capitalists is to exploit workers but in

this situation big al has the option to

exploit 12 more workers

and he instead of that he's choosing to

lay off 50 workers who she's no longer

going to be exploiting right so

but you agreed that big al would be a

better capitalist if he laid off the 50

workers and got the machine so how is it

the ends he's getting more value he's

getting more value this way and and

let's be clear okay how is he getting

more value that's it wait that's

interesting how is he getting more value

more exploitation yeah getting more

value

is more exploitation wait wait hold on

how is he getting more value

he's getting the same productivity

out of

250 workers he's getting more value from

those 250 workers than he got from 300

right

um

you do do you know what value is because

he's actually not

that's why there's a crisis in

capitalism according tomorrow you said

he had a choice you said he had a choice

to either maintain his current

productivity but the workers are not

going to be hold on no no wait

the workers will not be those 250

workers

to be clear the 250 workers will not be

doing anything new

okay they're not going to be like

working harder and they're not going to

be expending more energy they're going

to be working the same

way in which they did before the only

difference now is there's a new machine

that

produces more than the 50 workers before

we're able to produce and for less money

too

yep

so he's cutting costs and he's producing

more

and that value

ought to go to the workers right okay

whether it goes at all to do this or

that let's leave that on the back burner

for now let's ask the questions

is big is big al yeah i'm totally afraid

of that is big al exploiting

more or less workers after he made that

decision has a good capitals

you're moving goal posts again you're

quantifying

the number of explained workers versus

how much exploitation is occurring and

the value lost by those workers

is the is the quantum of exploitation

what

you're running away again so he was

wait okay hold on so big al is

exploiting these workers

uh because he fired them

no he's no not those those workers let's

hope they get a better job yeah they're

gone they're out of the picture so he's

no longer exploiting them anymore

he's they are free of his exploitation

yeah yes

so

how is he how is uh is he exploiting

more people or less people

i goalpost move man he is increased his

exploitation of the workers out under

him but they're doing the same thing

that they did before they're not working

harder each person is producing more

value than they did previously

but they're not getting more no they're

actually not oh no you're you're

confused about the value of the the hand

motion versus the value of the output

you're confused

explain how i'm confused

you're confused about the motions of the

hand

on the machine versus the value that

machine produces

the workers are not going to be let's

say the workers aren't even going to be

using that machine that he bought goal

post move you've moved the goal posts

well it doesn't even make a difference

though anyway it's like

how easily

because you're

dodging so he's he's just exploiting

them more

yeah because they're losing more value

now

they could be producing they could

keeping that value they're not doing i

already said they're not doing anything

differently keeping that value for

themselves they could be keeping that

value for themselves oh okay come on let

me get this straight so he's

he's exploiting them more than he was

before

because they're they're entitled because

you're beginning with the baseline

assumption that

whatever profits this company makes

regardless of the workers performance or

anything like that the workers are

entitled to

and that is called a socialized

workplace

congratulations that's basically hold on

hold on it's carl carl carl carl carl

it's not that's not what socialism means

at all

okay yeah

socialism is when potato sack got it

so carl

what does exploitation mean to you

um something that ought to belong to me

or something that does belong to me is

either stolen or converted or um uh

obstructed uh oh okay so

okay you i what if i said hypothetically

like your balls belong to me and you

have to go to the doctor get them

removed and send them to me you're

exploiting me by withdrawing them

but you they don't actually belong to

you why not

because they don't how do you i'm saying

they do they ought to really well they

don't because we live in uh carl balls

we we they don't belong into me because

we live in a system called carl balzism

instead of hosbosism and in right yeah

and i want

i it ought to be that they belong to me

so you're exploiting me by not giving me

them

because i'm resisting your frame i'm

exploiting you this is this is some high

quality

you're exploiting me

i sure am i'm exploiting you for your

content right now if a capitalist

invests in a machine and with the

profits

that he's getting from that machine

laying off the 50 workers if he doesn't

give the money to the workers

and i'll go sign the affiliate agreement

and then i can actually exploit you

right now

you're exploiting me you i i'm entitled

to something that you think you own

and it's actually i'm going to say it

ought to belong to me so that means

there's actually exploitation going on

i've already given more

initial okay so let me look up the diff

let's look up the definition of

exploitation come on let's look up the x

definition of exploitation exploitation

definition thank you for that

okay

and this one the action okay there's one

two as the act the act

or fact of treating someone unfairly in

order to benefit from their work

or the action of making use of and

benefiting from resources so both of

those definitions imply

that exploitation is when something

isn't when something should belong to

the worker

but that something that is actually a

feature of the workers work is being

taken from them

by the capitalists in this case

right you do you just undefined

capitalism is that is that what you

wanted to do did you want to

concede the victory to the capitalists

has

is is that what you're going hold on but

you can't just say you're that ex

there's exploitation

hold on you can't just say that there's

exploitation

because you're entitled to

something you're not getting that you

feel you should get exploitation would

be when something is actually being

taken from you

you don't have to say it should belong

to me it does belong to you except the

capitalist is taking it

right that's exploitation

exploitation isn't when you say oh this

should belong to me if i have no choice

but to work for a capitalist or i die

that is exploitation

what i think i think that it's

monumentally unfair

as your googled definition shows

it is right but it's it's unfair because

it's unfair because it's someone else's

work

it is it would be my labor

producing a thing out of that machine no

it wouldn't product no it wouldn't be

is not the product of my labor mine even

no it wouldn't be it wouldn't be yours

it and it would be unfair in that case

right

it should no because you're not doing

anything different than you were doing

before

are you turning into an ancap really

who cares let's say i'm an endcapper i'm

a capitalist can you actually debate

this

doesn't matter who i am carl your job is

to debate this persuasively i'm debating

from a very firm position and i think

that the product of my labor ought to be

mine and otherwise to say otherwise is

unfair okay

uh your balls are the product of my

labor send them to me and

that that would be unfair because we

both worked on this content

no but i i think it should belong to me

though is the issue but i contributed

this content with with me not here and

you saw that you saw that when i was

silent you were so frustrated you were

so angry no

you you actually said that you're not

going to talk until i unban you and you

talked anywhere so so angry at that

point

okay carl what if i told you that

according to marx himself like from his

own writings

workers are actually paid the exact

price of their labor

in a market

no in a market where labor has been

commodified yes

it's still exploitation

yeah but

why

they're getting paid the exact

value of their labor

so far as value is

expressed in price owning the means of

production

because if if they owned the means to

production

they would not work for a capitalist

okay but that's not how you defined

exploitation before you define

exploitation before as

undiminished or sorry diminished you

define exploitation as the diminished

why the worker ought to belong to the

worker

i've been very

firm on that i've been very how does

marx define exploitation i don't [ __ ]

know

don't [ __ ] okay you defined

exploitation established i don't know a

[ __ ] thing about mark you don't so

why you don't you said you said exploit

hold on chapel you said exploitation

you my chapel

said hold on you said you said you said

[ __ ] i need a dollar

you need you said exploitation is when

uh something that belongs to the workers

in this case the value of their labor is

not being given to them

right

but marx disagrees mark says that

workers get the exact

uh value of their labor in the form of

price

they get the exact exchange value of

their labor they get they are paid by

the capitalist the exact exchange value

of their labor

and chapter and page let's have it

okay so you're questioning it

i i would love chat can you get the

quote

yeah give me the quote because it sounds

like marx is pretty

not based pretty yeah [ __ ] yeah get

the quote i don't i'm too tired

to look it up yeah

is that hamburger that hamburger

destroyed you man jeez

i only drink beer

that that keeps my energy up

and i'm sorry that you chose not to put

my camera on stream because i love your

sword uh and i got a sword of my own i

actually think i could block chat

where's the do you have the quote

like just like that just two swords you

sent it to me uh before

right there

here we go here's the quote equivalent

has been exchanged for equivalent for

the capitalist as buyer paid for each

commodity for the cotton for the spindle

and the labor power its full value there

you go

that's remarks

page number

sorry

page number i can't see your [ __ ]

chat i'm banned okay so we don't have a

physical copy of the book right now so

we're not gonna actually get the page

number

but i can give you like the chapter

but yeah let me uh give me the chapter

so this is the economic manuscripts

this is the economic manuscripts

i say sorry capital volume one part

three uh section

one

and what's the words i think it's

section two actually

yeah section two

i i'm i'm not seeing the words uh in the

chat

it's [ __ ] pixelated as as [ __ ] okay

the words are

the spindle and the labor power out of

such

sorry

wait let me find it

oh

there you go

the word it's in section two actually i

think it's every condition of the

problem is satisfied while the laws that

regulate the exchange of commodities

have been in no way violated equivalent

has been exchanged for equivalent for

the capitalist is buyer paid for each

commodity for the cotton the spindle and

the labor power it's full value

i mean unless i read more context it

sounds like marx is not very great in

this case

i guess not i'm i'm betting there's some

context here

what do you suppose that context is

because i think the context is that you

left this

have completely perverted marks and

talked out of your [ __ ] ass about

what marx actually said wait this whole

time

is that sorry an accusation is that an

accusation now that i'm standing marks

hello

hello yeah

is that the accusation that i'm standing

marks

that you're what

i'm reading a standing

standing stand the like like the eminem

song am i standing i think no your your

uh crowd has is claimed that on the

authority of marx you're getting this

theory of value from

who's my crowd name name name of person

all twitch

i just yeah [ __ ] hassan i just talked

with uh tom foolery about hassan he

doesn't do enough bosch

uh he slips a lot

um

i kind of like the idea that um

we might be able to get

a

creative marketplace independent

of the uh

existential dread

of existence so it's like we have this

existence

thinker do you like

i

i don't like very many thinkers i like

my own brain it works pretty well

you like your own brain

i i think uh i've read a couple chapters

uh where did you get these ideas from

you you just read everything yourself

i read a couple chapters of what read

book

uh the bread book is uh conquest of

bread you might look it up someday in

that book did the uh karpov can teach

you about all this stuff you're talking

about how you taught me that the working

people cannot purchase

with their wages the wealth they have

created

oh okay that's what it said

yeah

okay um

okay what if i told you that that whole

book the conquest of bread i'll take

each page roll it up i'll wipe my ass

diarrhea filthy ass with it

if you're if you're trying to like piss

off kapotkin i'll laugh at it because i

don't i don't what if i told you marx

already did that in capital

that's amazing i'll have to read it it

sounds like a great read

yeah

and i won't even use it today that's how

much i'll be sure that it absorbs my

[ __ ] [ __ ] destroying the environment

good not used good

good are you literally

you litter you should save

the the trees i recycle though i know

recycling is i don't recycle i don't

recycle yeah it's terrible

you care about the turtles

wait what turtles have to do with

recycling plastic

micro plastics yeah do you care actually

yeah actually no thing or two i think

that we should switch to more

compostable things i i love when the

turtles suffer actually

i sleep soundly at night when they

suffer

that's wild man

yeah

it is this is some class a trolling and

and take it from me someone who yeah

hold on so wait i want to get back to

the part where you're saying that

according to the theory of value

um i i don't cite theory of value i i

cite what i think capitalist

exploitation is so it's capitalist

exploitation

that workers are not getting 100 percent

of the profit

well that is something we could discuss

i think that it could be

a better share than it is today

uh but i don't know

if it needs to be a hundred percent i

i'm honestly not sure

so what's exploitation

if you are

if you are forced to work for a

capitalist or suffer death that's

definitely exploitation

there is no modern

economy in a modern society in which you

are forced to work for a capitalist or

suffer death

but this is america no not even in

america

oh i don't believe that i i see

thousands of homeless people on the

streets of seattle

and some of them have died

and i believe

yeah because of drug overdoses and

diseases

people freeze to death on the street

and drug overdoses are a uh a salve on

the the first of all there's such a

thing as homeless shelters

not really not around here we're [ __ ]

full up especially if you're a young man

there's no there's no homeless shelter

for you if you're a young man and your

mother goes into a homeless shelter they

turn you away because that is a mother's

shelter that's okay but you're not

you're not in a modern society you don't

die just because you don't have a job

i'm a [ __ ] you live a really shitty

life

but you don't die we definitely okay i i

love to i'd love to see that happen i

would love to live in america where

people you know you know you know the

thing that pisses me off too is that

like i know people who don't have jobs

who live off the government too

like i know people who just live that

life why does that offend you

it doesn't it doesn't i don't even know

how they do it but they do it

and they're not dying dude

they don't have a job i found a way they

found a way to survive under capitalism

that that's yeah but they're not dying

because they're not getting a job

some of them are

right

some people die when they do get a job

what's your point

well maybe they would have a safer job

if they could own the means of

production

why do you think that

i know that if

if i was able to own the means of

production and avoided a job that could

cost you mean if if workers were able to

vote on every decision a company makes

that would also that would that's the

only form the ownership could take

well or they could just not work for

that employer

those are two good solutions so how can

a you own the means of production

in a company that hires more than two

people

no no

i wouldn't i wouldn't be a member of a

company i would own the means of

production i would have

like uh you know a media channel or i

would have a 3d printer okay but we

still have to grow food

okay we still have to grow food build

houses make real [ __ ]

and you know there's still physical

things that need to be done instead of

sitting on your ass on the computer so

can you snap out of it and get into

reality and explain to me how we're

going to own the means of production

not quite

i i think the socialized workplace is

the solution for the big tasks

definitely for things like a nuclear

reactor we have a pretty based as [ __ ]

uh public power okay

so you're saying so do you think workers

know what's best for them

uh so we have 27 puds that all

uh contribute to this public power

corporation uh and no there are bosses

in that corporation there is a boss

there are managers and directors and

there's safety inspectors all of these

people are workers

not all of them put there so it's the

same thing we're just gonna change the

name

no no but here's the thing you missed

and you you just [ __ ] got blown the

[ __ ] out because you missed this i said

it was 27 puds owned this public power

corporation none of them are owners

um you realize most

companies of scale are publicly owned

and don't have like

one i don't mean they're traded on the

stock market i mean literally owned by

public utilities that's just a different

form of an already socialized

that's just the different form of the

same socialization most companies don't

have one or two private owners most

companies even when people say privately

owned they're just contracting it to the

government most big companies are

socialized in their ownership you

[ __ ] idiot no no that's [ __ ]

that's yeah they are they're just a lie

you're gonna [ __ ] tell me that rei

and ibm have the same ownership

structure that's [ __ ] no they have a

different management and administration

structure

no they have the same management and

administration structure ibm and rei

they have different ownership what the

donor should mean

it it means there's a stock a money

share in a company

and that money share in the company is

held by an individual or corporation or

utility or government entity

so how how do the workers own the money

they i i said they didn't

so how do the workers own the company

i said they did not

own the company in the the other one you

mentioned the pp the pp5 comp whatever

the [ __ ] the other one not the ibm the

other one

yeah the public or rei or the public

power coverage

those are different co-ops they're not

quite they're better socialized they're

not perfectly socialized

i think these are models for a better

workplace i think that uh the the public

power corporation is a really good one

because it's the the citizens okay how

do workers own it

i [ __ ] not listening to me

it's a public power corporation it's

owned

by the constituencies

in what form

they have government entities that are

puds puds have bonds that are collected

from property taxes in those

constituencies

how do the workers own it

i didn't [ __ ] say the workers owned

it you're gonna repeat this five times

is the [ __ ] police interrogation are

you a cop

so what would it mean for the workers to

own the means of production

i i said these were transition so these

are more transitional than final state

these are good examples of better

socialized workplaces that exist in the

real world

what does that have to do with owning

the means of production

i it's better than a capitalist owning

the means of production

that's what it is

why

am i gonna get to finish the description

of why

can i can i actually go into it

go into it

okay so

uh 27 puds all contribute to this public

power corporation we can all vote

on how that public power corporation

works

and we get to set the salaries of those

employees all those salaries have to be

competitive

but they don't get to issue stock as

part of compensation they don't get to

say oh the ceo gets millions and

millions of dollars from this nuclear

plant no that goes back to the utilities

that goes back

goes back to

all of the uh all of the constituencies

get the benefits hey dumbass

[Music]

you know that can only work for a hey

you know that can only work for an

enterprise that's already a natural

monopoly meaning it doesn't have to

worry about like keeping a competitive

edge on the market and expanding and

shrinking and growing and innovating

it's a natural monopoly whose purpose is

really just

well it's it's it's what they call a

natural monopoly it's a utilities

company utilities companies

in contrast to commodified since the

1950s we we've had we've not

decommodified uh d

d structure d um [ __ ] what's the texas

grid called it is a

deregulated

[Music]

a deregulated that that's not the point

that that can't apply universally

that's why deal in examples and this is

my favorite [ __ ] example

[Music]

so

we've got

about

i think 900 people working for this

public power corporation

uh

and it's it's pretty [ __ ] based

they've got a nuclear reactor they're

producing energy for the pacific

northwest

low carbon energy really good

[Music]

uh so i see you're walking away i don't

see it on

here but i'm watching the stream so um

how what's up chat uh do i have you yeah

i do i do

oh [ __ ] years later we're no closer to

you explaining what it means for workers

to own the means of production

well the workers so if we transition

from the public owning this to the

workers owning this then the workers

would get to decide

uh a little more directly how

how everything works

okay

except

workers so do workers

know what's in their best interests

i think the ceo of energy northwest can

you answer my question directly you

dodging [ __ ] [ __ ] he is a worker he's

still a worker

he works for the public you dodging [ __ ]

does a worker know it's in their own

best interest

the line worker or the ceo they're both

workers

all workers

not all of them

so if workers owning the means of

production just means workers get to

directly decide on how their [ __ ]

company is operated

they get to decide this is the stupid

way of administrating a company you dumb

[ __ ] why don't they get to elect a ceo

why the [ __ ] wouldn't they get to elect

their ceo

i'll tell you why they shouldn't elect

their own [ __ ] ceo

because very rarely is a company

reducible to one shop or one floor

it's not that the team of workers who

have a boss bossing them around it's a

[ __ ] company of scale and knowing

what an effective business leader is

gonna be and negotiate with other

businesses that's what business is about

politics and negotiation and all that

[ __ ] workers don't know a goddamn

[ __ ] thing about what that takes okay

i believe in workers i know that you you

hate the working person but i love the

working person i think that the people

who work at energy northwest uh have a

really good relationship with their

leadership i i think that you know they

have regulators and they have unions

they are [ __ ] [ __ ] smart people

they know what they're doing

workers can't elect a [ __ ] leader a

ceo

of a company

because the ceo of a company

has to rise on the merit of their skills

and on the merit of their abilities and

what they've proven in the past and

their precedent and their things like

that it's not based on [ __ ] how

popular they are

have you never worked among employees

have you never had a good manager

a theo is not a manager you [ __ ]

idiot

why isn't he a manager most workers will

never interact with the ceo in their

life

i then interacted with two of my ceos

three no three three of my ceos well

most workers won't

i i wish they would uh it's great to be

able to give feedback like that

why it's just a waste of their time

i don't think so i think it's like

saying workers should have to decide the

[ __ ] safety inspections what the [ __ ]

do they know about all that [ __ ] workers

aren't scientists they're not engineers

they're not [ __ ] experts they don't

know they're not the people who should

be responsible for all that

people

at energy northwest are engineers and

scientists

they actually go to school for this [ __ ]

well i'm actually talking about real

working class americans and not

professional managerials

these are working class americans they

live in a place called uh real by

definition they're professionals

they're professionals

is is that it

is it because they're professionals they

are engineers or scientists in their

hands they're they're not

working class people no they're not

working class they're not working

knowledge workers are not workers is

that your is that you want to oh no

they're not

[ __ ] no they're not

communication workers of america to [ __ ]

off that you're not workers yes i tell

each and every one of them to [ __ ] off

actually awesome awesome

every single silicon valley look this is

what i'm going to tell you my union

every single

every no i'm going to explain it to you

every single silicon valley employee who

works at google whatever i wish there's

more union busting more long hours of

work more uh less pay and i want more

discipline for them

they're cool locks just like you and me

is that it

yes

based we're

we're too cool locks in a voice chat

talking about working people

yeah except i don't represent the class

of streamers

that's why i go against every [ __ ]

streamer there is

based

oh um so we are past my window uh and so

true to my promise i lasted the whole

however [ __ ] many hours i had to

offer uh this is it because i got my

talk with uh tiberius d in an hour

i'm gonna go eat and chill out uh uh

this has been thoroughly entertaining uh

thank you everyone uh please support

nuclear i accept your surrender goodbye