Hasan Doesn't Know Anything About Marxism

i'm really stupid can you educate me a

little bit on marxism i don't know what

it is for real marxism is just a theory

on how uh commodity production works

under a capitalist organization of the

economy how we have evolved under the

induction okay this is not true

this is literally not true

this is such a shitty way to fucking

talk about marxism dude like

i know it's hard

but talking about commodity production

is a very specific part of marxism but

it's not really like the essence of what

marxism is you know marxism is about a

way of relating to history and society

and even philosophy being you know it's

it's a very specific thing to just say

like commodity production you know it

sounds really pretentious we have

evolved under the industrial revolution

and onwards to have our current

capitalist uh production

this is probably the worst like this th

what do you just said is flat out wrong

to be actual

the truth is is that um marxists

have had a very rough time explaining

how we got to the capitalism that you're

looking at here with amazon mark the the

basic idea is marxists were the best at

talking about the old capitalism but

this one is marxist don't really know

how we got here you know um

it's just a really silly thing to say

this is that's not what marxism is the

relationship between those who produce

the work the workers versus those who uh

profit from the labor that you put in

the bourgeoisie the capital owners no um

plainly false he's talking about the

labor theory of value but the labor

theory of value came from the classical

economist that was it wasn't marx's

sweeping insight that all workers are

being ripped off by the capitalists that

was something he he was getting from the

classical political economist um i know

i'm kind of being like an actually type

of guy but i want you to actually think

about it if you're gonna talk about

something so specific as marxism you

should get it right you should actually

talk about like marxists marx's origins

and his break from hegel and his

humanism and his dialectic and you

should talk you should vaguely be able

to sum those kinds of things up his

materialism you should be able to sum

those things up is this fine for normie

hassan fans that's what i'm trying to

say i don't think it is for normie you

you don't have to talk about marxism you

just talk about anything else the

ultimate goal is to democratize the

economy okay

this is flat out wrong this is the most

wrong thing i've ever heard of marx and

engels both routinely mocked people who

were overly enthusiastic about the word

democracy i'll give you a few examples

of this in history marx used to talk

about the charlatans and quacks of

democracy marx and engels were disgusted

at the name that lazily and the others

were coming up with for the workers

party in germany which was the social

democratic party in letters between marx

and engels they were like ah what a name

what a horrible name and then engels

furthermore talks about how bourgeois

equality is a relic of the democratic

past and that communism is going to

overcome this notion of equality since

human beings are not actually equal

they're only equal in the formal sense

for the democratic bourgeois state so

the idea that marxism is just

democratizing the economy is really

bizarre that's not true that was a

propaganda talking point of the social

democrats who actually weren't uh all

marxists that was one of their talking

but oh we just want to be democrats for

the social sphere as well but even then

they didn't actually mean by democracy

workplace democracy that's a way recent

invention than just uh the way that we

theorize how our current governance

should operate in a ideal world like

democracy should operate in a certain

way right with means of accountability

in the form of elections kind of like

that okay hassan where does marx ever

talk about that where do where do

prominent marxists talk about that at

but for the workplace there's a there

are multiple different ways of arriving

at that end goal but the ultimate goal

is

is for workers to own the means of

production hassan's the only guy who

just talks out of his ass in front of

like 30 000 people and gets away with it

okay so the idea that the end goal is

the democratization of the economy marx

and engels never talk about a

democratization they talk about the

proletarian dictatorship and they

outline the manner by which uh socialist

um command of the economy might happen

and they're very clear that it's through

scientific means it's not based on

elections uh whatsoever actually one of

the famous reproaches of anarchists like

bakunin toward marx was that the marxist

socialism would be like some nightmarish

technocratic dictatorship of scientific

experts dictatorially controlling the

economy and eliminating the

contingencies of human freedom so he

doesn't know what he's talking about on

that count then secondly but the

ultimate goal is for workers to own the

means of production so when he says the

ultimate goal is for workers to own the

means of production there's two things

wrong right marxism doesn't speak in

terms of ultimate goals marx talked

about how talking about end-stage

societies was undialectical because

societies are always changing um and

that second

that communism is not an ideal society

it's a real movement that's what's

marx's view marx didn't think of

communism as a as some kind of like end

goal society when marx did talk about

communist society though he doesn't

actually talk about workers owning the

means of production he only talks about

it in the negative like for example he

says he talks about it like

hypothetically in a communist world

where there is no money and or

hypothetically in a communist world

where there is no division of labor you

can fish in the morning whatever like

he'll he'll give you examples like those

but then again he doesn't really do that

to illustrate what communist society is

going to look like as much as it is to

like create hypotheticals that help us

understand capitalist society better the

idea of workers owning the means of

production and democratizing the economy

is a good propaganda talking point that

organ mass organizations oftentimes uh

were saying publicly but this is not

what the essence of marxism is yeah

marxism is what informs the praxis of

the organizations it's it's not like the

propaganda an organization puts out is

not the same thing as the theory that

goes into it propaganda is something

that's created to win people over and to

formulate things in a way that's going

to gain the support comedies have never

worked in real life people who believe

in it are delusional yeah

well capitalism isn't working in real

life right now so okay fair sure

communism never worked in real life okay

how about that let's just say so that

this is why i think like hassan's

position is super weak it's mainly

because you could just say yeah

communism does work it actually did work

in history for what its goals were at

the time which was to industrialize

countries create a minimal standard of

living and educate people and provide

minimal health care it worked very well

doing those things and he could also say

and beyond that it works very well in

china you could use the china exam

china's an example of communists in

power who are ruling the country and

implementing a system that works very

well for eliminating poverty it did it

okay those very same metrics of success

are also literally not working in real

life right now under a capitalist

organization of the economy so what do

we do we just keep crying about how

communism didn't work or do we try to

fix the system that we're currently

existing under yeah honestly no wonder i

doesn't debate destiny because destiny

could just easily say some shit like

well the system currently may not be

working but we can isolate the specific

things about the system that aren't

working and deal with them in a

accordingly why do we have to like start

something from scratch and that and he

would win that argument if he said that

i would rather say something like um

yes capitalism seems to be failing but

we should always keep in mind that

capitalism has failed before it failed

in 1929 it failed during the end of

bretton woods in the 70s it failed in

2008 and somehow it keeps on chugging

it's really not enough to say it fails

you know how is it is how has its

existence been prolonged by so much

especially the 1929 crisis the great

depression may we fix the system that

we're currently existing under through a

series of reforms pretty sure this is

capitalism work

you can't even get health care dude are

you gonna reform your way into fucking

communism you can't even do basic shit

dude you were jumping for joy like it

was some kind of victory that you got

biden elected working really you think

it's working it's working for you maybe

because you're on twitch you can watch

me you know we're okay this is something

i know is really stupid hassan i don't

know if you know this but there's a ton

of people who watch twitch who also work

and there's a ton in who in my community

and i know it for a fact watching twitch

is not a fucking measure of wealth in

america slowly destroying the fucking

planet because we care more about the

profit motive than the lives of the next

generation that will come before us yeah

but here's the thing i don't want to be

the guy that have to like bring this up

but you realize that communist states

were not like eco-friendly because they

were they weren't the goal is literally

not to profit so a lot of lefties will

tell you shit like oh the reason carbon

emissions go up is just for profits

it's not really true um states whether

it's russia even america really

struggled to meet the demands of their

population to keep the jobs and keep the

standard of living or create a standard

of living and it's almost like profit is

a secondary thing if you think these

corpos only exist to get profit you're

super naive they're all in bed with the

government and they fulfill political

goals the main issue is is not so much

that people care too much about profit

the main issue is that we don't have the

like institutions to deal with the

climate problem like for example we

don't have the organization to mobilize

people to evacuate people to shelter

people things like that we don't have

that relationship between government and

even when coronavirus happened in

america like it was chaos you know i'm

doing all right okay i am working for uh

you know the factory owner is working

for those who are executives at massive

corporations working for the fucking

finance bros but it's not working for

you hassan that's really all well and

fine but you also work for those people

and you are like a propaganda arm for

them as well that's the truth dude like

you know hassan you've why has twitch

allowed you to get away with things that

no one else can get away with you're

like one of the biggest streamers on

twitch is that because you're like this

big threat to the corporations i don't

think it is i just don't i think

corporations tend to love you and it's

almost like the biggest political

streamer on twitch is none other than

you you know you'd think here's why i

kind of like destiny right and i don't

know him personally but i kind of like

him more than hassan this is why you'd

think that twitch would appoint destiny

who's like the biggest establishment

chill of all time you'd think a guy like

that would be the biggest streamer on

twitch right but he's not he's actually

not really liked to as far as i know by

the same people he chills for on the

daily like destiny's just naive he just

thinks like one day they will accept him

and they're never gonna accept him right

hassan talks shit about these people and

they love him they actually love him

it's like destiny is a full-on like

calls himself a neolib he's just like

yeah i defend you know establishment

whatever it don't make no sense we here

in the united states of america live

under the comfort of being a part of the

labor aristocracy so

oh my god

okay the first thing i want to say is

hassan speak for yourself dude hassan

you're the fucking labor aristocracy

dude you're like a west you pampered

west coast guy who worked for tyt and i

don't hate you for it but like you dude

you are not the same as a fucking west

virginia coal miner okay so why don't

you speak for yourself dude and i'm

saying this as someone who comes from a

very privileged background i would never

lump all of you in with my specific

background like it's not we dude it's

just you our relationship no matter

where we are as a worker our

relationship with the means of

i bet hassan goes to like lefty

gatherings and and if they don't know

who he is he's like yeah i'm an amazon

worker

when hassan joins the dsa they're like

what's your profession i work for amazon

you are the true proletariat like a

soundtrack like yeah i'm a worker but

i'm just like i get more money no dude

you're not a worker

oh the entire system is run by

exploiting the third world the global

south and you kind of recognize that so

you're like yeah it's kind of working i

have mcdonald's uh things are all right

for me i can fucking order a big mac and

shit you know but it's not you no longer

leftist reform capitalism what when if i

ever strayed away from social democracy

in the short term socialism in the long

term like it's literally always been

what i've advocated

you and and you can't even get bernie in

the primary short term you know a lot of

people would look at me right guy like

me i'm a marxist-leninist so they're

like oh what's your issue with hassan

it's probably because he's not too

radical right and the truth is i think

hassan is too radical i think hassan

talks about how he wants a social

democracy and he can't even get a bernie

democracy in the democratic party

hassan can't even formulate an act

greater than voting for joe biden so

hassan i think even your social

democracy is too radical you're two

leftists you're way too leftist for your

ambitions you know you should rethink it

but guys is it is it a coincidence that

the biggest streamer on twitch

is pretending to be like this

anti-corporate anti-establishment guy

i will give you guys the test

you want the test i have a perfect

litmus test so you can see who's faking

it and who's real ready ask them what

they think about jimmy dore

forget about they can call themselves a

communist they can call themself a tanki

whatever just ask them what they think

about jimmy dore

if they bitch about jimmy dore yeah

their establishment that's an

establishment guy

day one i've been advocating for that

and a lot of people like a lot of

marxist leninist for example fucking

hate that approach okay because i'm a

fucking revisionist that's not why

i'm i'm a real marxist leninist right a

lot of these other guys they're they're

larping right they're larping my views

are gonna be very similar to what you're

gonna find in actual marxist leninist

communist party members and i'm gonna

i'm gonna give it to you from that

perspective the issue with you hassan is

not that we have an issue with your

reformism because that's just ver

doesn't mean anything right you can you

can say that you want the big rock candy

mountain as your end goal it doesn't

matter it's not what's decisive what's

decisive is the positions you're taking

in concrete material terms in our

political which classes do you virtue

signal to and which classes do you

condemn and oppose and you're against

jimmy dore which means you're on the

side of the establishment you're

affiliated with bread tube tyt limousine

this kind of fake pmc leftists we do a

class with hassan we marx the

slenderness they're not going to judge

you for your etiology we don't care

about ideology trust me

marxist leninists who are in power

and who are big and big they're big

enough to like be mature

they don't care about your ideology it

doesn't matter what matters is your

class

which class do you appeal to and

represent that's what we're going to

focus on right that's why jimmy dore

never has to fucking mention the name

karl marx and we will like jimmy dore

because he represents the interests of

the american working class so we're

going to actually entertain jimmy dore

we don't really care about etiology

ideology doesn't matter that much

if anything ideology usually just gets

in the way you know this idea that we

marxist leninists are like super idiot

ideological is not true ideology clouds

your judgment etiology's something you

look out for you know

real mls are very pragmatic very

pragmatic some youtube videos here and

understand that you're against the

concept of meritocracy but i don't

understand how people would be pushed to

progress even myself i wouldn't be

pushed to do more if i wasn't rewarded

dude you wouldn't be pushed to do more

in this current organization of the

economy the point is i'll explain it to

you easily okay

people just don't have the opportunities

but i think they would if they had them

and if you're if you're living in a

democratically controlled

workplace why would you push yourself

honestly you're not going to have the

opportunity to have your own piece of

land and do your why would you you

wouldn't i wouldn't i would just sit

around being as lazy as possible when i

worked for someone else i was still

doing something that i loved okay and i

hassan you're not a fucking worker okay

working for your uncle at a youtube

media organization is not quite the same

thing as being a fucking construction

worker you're not a worker dude can you

please stop with this nonsense

i worked really fucking hard at it but

the fruits of my labor were never mine

okay i had to do everything i can to

make my own way within that corporate

structure even though it was a startup

so i had a lot

right

hassan gets on camera in front of 30 000

people and tells them that he's the

proletarian marx is talking about

hassan's uncle exploited his labor his

labor was exploited by his uncle dude

that is labor exploited by his uncle

this is the true proletariat

a lot more leeway a lot more bandwidth

to be able to experiment with certain

things and uh because of a lack of

division of of labor there i was able to

show that like this is literally what

i'm doing but they could very easily

take away my ip give it to other people

cut my fucking time having power isn't

the same thing as class i don't know

so americans have this stupid idea in

their head that class is the same as

power and it's actually two different

things

so material relations to production are

not defined by how much power you have

uh in society they could be an

indication of how much power but power

isn't actually what's essential power is

political okay so what he's talking

about is like workplace politics right

that's what he's talking about it's not

class is not that okay um class is not

just being in a position of power it's

also possessing a certain relationship

to the mode of production not just the

means of production but the mode of

production so that's important to keep

in mind i'm and tell me you can't do

that anymore you have to do this instead

that is alienation from your labor okay

this is a

i i like how i just ended and talked to

jackson but the the fucking kick w's

keep on rolling hassan

yeah when mom tells me i gotta eat

finish my broccoli that's alien no it's

not what alienation is okay it's not

it's not

anywhere close to what alienation is

okay i mean i think you're trying to

argue that this is like the workplace

culture of alienation

but that's not even true either because

i just think you're a baby whether

you're working for a

socialist state or you're working for a

company you do have to do what you're

told because the necessities of

production have no regard for your

arbitrary individual will you have to

submit to the necessities of production

like if we need it let's say we're in a

socialist planned economy if we need you

know 10 000 units of iphones for this

small town i mean you could say that oh

but i don't i don't feel like producing

these iphones like you could that's what

the necessities of production you know

like it doesn't matter what you want you

have to submit to some authority if like

angle said if you're on a ship you have

to listen to the authority of the

captain because the captain's steering

the ship you can't sit around and

democratically decide how you're gonna

steer the ship the way you steer the

ship is gonna be you're gonna have to

submit to engineering and physics and

the ocean and it's like that's not

alienation dude that's not alienation

but words of advice is

why don't you not talk about it just

stop talking about things you don't

understand

and haven't studied

but you have to virtue signal to your

chat make it seem like you're like this

knowledgeable guy about marxism and i'm

telling you right now you're not i mean

like

probably some like discord

chomsky guy like

educated you i don't know but

what you're saying

what you're saying isn't true

marx's concept easily uh defined by

alienation from your labor you have no

control over what you do you go into

work and you your fucking boss tells you

that's not i'm pissed now dude that's

not alienation alienation remarks is an

extension of his humanism so for marx

the idea is that the mode of production

let's just say functions in such a way

that is radically alien from humanity it

seems we get this experience that

there's like an ai or some kind of

monster controlling everything and

that's coming at our expense and it is

completely indifferent to the reality of

our humanity that's more the kind of

alienation thing but just not having

control is not alienation because

control requires knowledge and

information if let's give the example of

this young woman does she have knowledge

of all of the technical logistics

information and whatever that determine

the necessities of production and

ultimately determine why she has to do

the shit that she does she doesn't she

knows she doesn't have that no single

individual does which is why high

information hierarchies and forms of

authority must exist in any real uh

modern economy what you're gonna do here

are your key performance indicators that

you have to hit here are your targets

that you have to hit and you're

basically a cop yeah but that's not

alienation hassan that's not alienation

you want to know what's a really good

example of alienation hassan a way

better one than the one you're talking

about which the fact that people try to

fill the holes in their social lives and

their fundamental loneliness by watching

streamers and thinking that these

streamers give a shit about them that's

alienation hassan this shit you're

talking about is not yeah you have to

fucking obey the necessities of

production those are not determined by

someone's will they're determined by

objective reality which you want to know

what an example of alienation really is

one time i lost i watched the miss

kiff's stream not all of it but i just

clicked on it right this was like a year

ago and the dude was just staring at a

wall and people were just giving him

money and the chat was going so fast

there were so many viewers and i

couldn't help but feel really unease of

looking at i was like look at all of

these people swarming trying to like

gather the warmth and attention of this

guy they just want that warmth and it's

like it's like a fucking it's almost

like a factory farm of alienated souls

lining up to have a chance at fulfilling

their loneliness and they'll never be

noticed and it's not that i thought miss

gives a bad guy for it it's just that i

thought it was a sad reality

that's alienation or your bosses

obviously you don't that's not desirable

of course you're not going to fucking

work super hard it's mo it's the most

human thing to want to work for as

little as you possibly can and get paid

the most that's what you want as a

worker and your boss wants to extract

the maximum amount of surplus value from

you so they want you to work as hard as

you possibly can for the least amount of

money they can pay you and get away with

basic principles of how

this is going to be true for any economy

of scale hassan even if you create your

anarchist federation of democratically

controlled factories it's going to be

the same thing as that except there's

just going to be people who like it's

gonna be uh anarchism hassan will be the

same thing but plus excuses they're

gonna be like well isn't this the same

thing as the thing before and they're

gonna be like actually no because the

democratic congress elected this prayer

and they're gonna talk to you for like

12 hours explaining why it has to be the

same thing it actually doesn't matter

what economic system is going on if you

have a modern economy of scale that

discontinuity between the interests of

management which are long term and the

interests of workers which are short

term is going to be there it was there

under socialism it was there in

communism and you just have to deal with

that you know that's an issue of scale

it's not an issue of you know managers

being greedy if the managers want to

fulfill any goal whatsoever that's what

you have to do

capitalist organizations of the economy

works this is like normal human shit the

point is if you had an ownership over

the means of production if you had more

ownership over what you were doing if

you had more control

so

hassan's a twitch streamer so he's

saying this and i bet you anything in

his head he's talking about like

well you know i have a computer here and

i can control my streams and what's the

problem and when you think of it that

way there's no problem but when it comes

to industries of scale and anything of

scale no individual is going to have

ownership or control you're gonna have

to obey realities that are entirely

outside the scope of your individual

comprehension over what your output was

going to be you would be excited to work

you would love what you're doing even if

you're doing something that is back

breaking menial you would still

recognize that this is necessary work

yeah guys it's just like streaming like

if you could be a streamer like me and

make 50k a month and choose the times

you'd love it i love it that's the same

thing but for all society and and coal

miners

okay any coal miners in the chat guys

just be more like hassan okay it's that

simple just elect aoc and more people

like aoc and tell your local congress

people that you wanna you wanna be

streamers cause that'll make you happy

that you must do because you're

achieving something for yourself and the

example i will always use is look i

fucking work for myself dude i do that's

why i don't mind

come on come on come on did i not get

did i not fucking call that this dude is

so transparent did i not call that come

on you gotta give me that i called that

shit mind streaming fucking eight hours

a day when i limit my hours like that's

why i didn't mind streaming 42 percent

of the entire year last year because i

get to dictate the terms yeah i have 30

000 micro managers who tell me like dude

what the fuck i can't believe you're you

know changing your hair or i can't

believe you're fucking uh you know not

covering this like weird thing that i

want you to cover it's fucking bullshit

but i can ban them i have complete

control when you're in the service

industry or when you're in a job you

don't have that control yeah you're good

you're managing to suck your car okay

you will get fired and when you get

fired

on social safety nets that are

lackluster

even his chat is kwing dude hassan is

literally teaching his chat that marx

doesn't mean that you're gonna be just

like the twitch streamer

guys marxism is this idea where like

everyone's gonna be like a just like

hassan like a twitch streamer and like

you're gonna have your own computer

you're gonna be able to ban whoever you

want i mean what people have to work in

mines and factories and we still have to

do like construction labor and no no no

no no it's just okay dude i'm sorry

hassan is literally the marie antoinette

of so i used to think contra points was

that okay no hassan is the marie

antoinette of political twitch the dude

is literally out here just saying let

them eat cake he is literally the marie

antoinette of fucking political twitch

okay ineffective and also you will lose

your fucking health care which is

terrifying i no longer have those fears

i have still some alienation from my

labor obviously but having said that

oh my god oh my fucking god dude you're

a millionaire dude what do you make in a

month you make like at least 200k a

month and this bra is talking about

alienation from brock come on man get

there get the fuck out of here because

you know amazon still owns and operates

these platforms they still have certain

regulations that i have to abide by i

have contracts that i have contractual

obligations that i need to follow all

that good stuff however uh guys so

marxism is this radical idea that like

there should be no rules okay you do

what you want

ever i have significantly less

alienation from my work so my goal my

hope is that people can all get to a

point where even if they're fucking

cleaning toilets so what hassan means by

socialism is the gig economy like

doordash you're gonna be taking gigs

well i mean to be fair everyone can just

um you know open only fans right

everyone can just do that you own your

own means of production it's yours

that's not alienation that's not

alienation right hassan because they own

the means of production that's not um

that's not alienation sex work quote

unquote that's not alienation that's not

alienation that's that's the road to

socialism

okay even if they're in the service

industry they recognize that what

they're doing is bettering their own

lives they are getting positive

incentives rather than the negative

incentives of lack of remuneration if

you are fucking fired because everything

that motivates us right now under our

current design under our current

organization of the economy is the fear

that you will fucking die

the fear that you won't be able to put a

roof over your head fear that you won't

be able to put food on your table

clothes on your back if you don't work

you're not gonna get those things

that's true for any society people have

to work hassan that's why lenin said he

who does not during the war time because

it's a fucking war he said he who does

not work will not eat if you want to be

lazy then why should you be entitled to

fucking anything so what socialism means

you just get to be a bum you don't have

to work literally twitch twitch streamer

socialism what about ubi i'm for it i'm

for it but i look i want people to be

able to work less americans work too

long but you're still gonna have to work

you gotta work dude life is work

what's my job i'm a bum dude i'm a

twitch streamer but the difference

between me and hassan is that i'm not

out here trying to tell you that this

lifestyle and this profession i'm

pursuing all the worker that socialism

and workers are just going to be able to

live like that that's not true that's

not fucking true sure but i would say

using yourself as an example is kind of

confusing because you're not it's not

the same as working nine to five a

fucking mcdix how would marxism make

working a fast food place more rewarding

what would ease the alienation there was

an incredible example from a pizza place

that i will show you okay this

there was a chatter called him out he

literally had to have a chat or call

them call him out

a pizza shop there was a pizza shop uh

in ohio that decided to distribute a

day's profit amongst his employees for

the only one for one day for one fucking

day turns out you know what happened

there were 220 orders the shop shared

that it received about 6 300 in sales

and 1 200 in tips which

that's an interesting example it's not

enough for a study to qualify like a

conclusion for a study that's that's a

good example but the issue is that that

has no that doesn't have anything to do

with your points

just because profits are being shared

doesn't mean they don't have to obey

authorities and rules so that's not a

good example hassan they don't have

control over how many pizzas they're

gonna have to sell for example and how

many pizzas they have to make which

would be divided amongst his employees

it thanked all its customers they got 78

dollars an hour that when adjusted to

their regular fucking uh payment which

is like around 12 an hour or whatever

the fuck if they're lucky implies that

whatever that difference is is literally

what is known as surplus labor value

please stop hassan please stop what is

this

what is this dude can you stop please

never talk about marxism again value

only happens at the aggregate level it

doesn't happen at the fucking level of

pizza shops

and even at the level of the pizza shop

the law of value is still happening so

just because you're paying everyone

equally doesn't mean there's not surplus

value going on there is

you just don't know what you're talking

about so hassan

marx's capital

uh and marx's theory of exploitation

doesn't mean

that many capitalists don't want to pay

their workers enough and that's why

there's crisis

it's because of the very form of value

itself

that gives rise to crisis and gives rise

to surplus value it is not because of

the amount of money capitalists are

paying their workers

what you are generating for the business

that you are not getting back

capitalists understand it as profit it

is the most normal thing in the in a

capitalist uh organization of the

economy now this is one way that you can

immediately remedy the situation okay

profit is not

surplus value is not the same as profit

dude

wouldn't you have to subtract some of

that to pay for ingredients and

utilities and rent yes of course of

course now in a democratic organization

what you do with the 75 000

or what you do with the additional money

that you have generated in the form of

profit would be democratically decided

on so in a democrat this is the dumbest

shit i've ever heard why would a fucking

pizza worker know the how to to invest

capital wisely to grow the pizza shop

just because you fucking make pizzas

doesn't mean you know how to market

doesn't mean you know how to get the

right location it doesn't mean you

actually know

how to invest the capital in the right

machine you don't know all those things

just by working at one

this is the dumbest shit i've ever heard

product design in a workplace like this

doesn't automatically mean like you

fucking uh distribute all of the fucking

dollars back to the workers themselves

workers themselves could get together if

it's a small pizza shop and decide hey

you know what we are going to take a

pool of these funds that we are going to

accumulate over the course of the

fucking month and we're going to spend

it on marketing this is going to be our

marketing budget budget marketing

expenditure they're going to say hey

we're going to buy cleaning supplies

like extra cleaning supplies because i'm

the janitor and i'm saying like we need

addition

you know hassan what you're talking

about is workplace culture not a

fundamental transformation of the

relations of production and that's not

something that's just political or

happens voluntarily

but here's the thing hassan that i just

want to get it to you

there's such thing as a balance

so

china has a better system where there's

a balance

the input of workers should be going go

into consideration they should listen to

the input of the people on the ground to

know about you know what do they need

what kind of cleaning supplies do they

need

what kind of you know

things would make it easier and more

productive

but there should be no sovereign control

they don't necessarily know

you can have input without giving full

control additional cleaning supplies

that would make this way more efficient

that's how you would operate rather than

socialism by the way hassan doesn't

actually contain any prescriptions about

how workplaces have to be run so a

socialist pizza shop whatever that means

could also

not pay the workers shit

and still be socialist

now would it be culturally socialist

that is it thank you osama diaz that's a

different question but materially it

would still be socialist china has no

sovereign control well so here's the

system china has so china has

institutions within a given um

enterprise which is accountable to the

workers the workers elect

representatives and these

representatives have a mandatory seat on

the uh board of directors and they have

the power to win they have the mandatory

seat and that is mandated by the

communist party now do they have all the

seats no do they control everything no

but they have a profound degree of

control that is and it's mandated by the

communist party that they have that that

level of um

input

with a top-down approach where you're

just like yeah fuck you here's what you

get once again that's revenue you fool

dude shut the fuck up it doesn't matter

okay let's

okay limit that then like lower it by a

thousand dollars who gives a fuck idiot

why is this so fucking hard for you to

understand like we're we're talking

about theory right now okay no you're

not hassan this is not theory shut up

hey it doesn't matter if it's 78 is that

a 78 it's fucking 60 an hour okay let's

see that's still three x what you would

more than three eggs that's a fucking

six sex of what you would average what

you would make average and this doesn't

mean that like all work is equally paid

okay who takes the risk from lawsuits

and whatnot a shared pool of funds

brother just like when you have a union

i i'm shitting on co-ops at this point

just to like play the devil's advocate

but no that's not true your shared fund

is not the only thing that's going to be

in trouble when it comes to lawsuits you

literally fucking pay like because

lawsuits aren't just about money they

mostly they are but they're not just

about that a union dues so you can hire

your own lawyers against the corporation

that decides to hire anti-union lawyers

okay that's how it works it's literally

how insurance works thank you

for the

hassan thinks co-ops are socialism when

in reality co-ops exist under capitalism

and they may not exist under socialism

it has nothing to do with socialism

proper socialism is about something that

is at the scale of countries socialism

happens at scale of countries it doesn't

happen at the scale of a pizza shop

jeopardy contestant that said what is

insurance we use it all the time in

every other aspect of our thank you

anonymous gifter

lives collectivize the wins and

collectivize the losses so union is

gonna fight the case what omega law if

everyone uh had a stake or a percentage

ownership in the business both in the

means of production that they buy into

with their labor over the course of an

extended period of time then yes they

would literally do it it's like if

you're think about it from the point of

view of your fucking daddy's business

they they will but

at that point they're very privileged

because most people

most jobs are waste of time dude

most jobs are low paying

not because they have to be low paying

per se

but because they're bullshit jobs that

don't need to exist in the first place

and you're basically forcing those jobs

to exist by like turning them all into

co-ops

that you probably have right your

daddy's gonna do it okay question for

the chat why do we have a service

industry

think about it

because the american worker works eight

hours a day and doesn't have time to

serve themselves so they created an

entire industry just speaking and that

industry too is an eight-hour workday

and it's a feedback loop so you waste

people's time and you keep you prop up

industries based on people's waste of

time you see how it works so the service

industry you they make the people work

eight hours a day and they don't have

time to attend to their own services so

what does this do creates more service

industries when people serve themselves

at restaurants um what people can do is

make their own food most i think most of

the food people should consume is from

their own kitchen

like i want to have a family and i want

to have family food

and i want a wife who likes to cook call

me sexist whatever but who likes doing

it i'm not saying i want to force her

but like who likes doing that and that's

where i want to get my food

i don't want to get food you know

i don't want to get it from restaurants

you know

i want a wife who makes me food

and that's that's how it should be

right and if we if we had a shorter

workday

we can spend more time

with our families and we can spend more

time making families and also

making

babies