Haz vs KingSpartan15 | InfraredShow Debate

okay let's do it

yeah awesome uh yes so

i think you could probably change my

opinion on patriotic socialism but i

still don't

think

i fully

grasp exactly how you see patriots

patriotic socialism moving forward when

discussing like

where this country is materially headed

and how that path

you know affects the working class in

america relative to the destruction of

imperialism right because

well my my perspective on patriotic

socialism is

this country and i don't really see what

you mean by america isn't a civilization

so maybe we could talk more about that

but

i see america definitely as a

civilization and it's part of you know

it's

the heart of western civilization and

it's the heart of nato and

these

the way america is materially built on

the surface of the earth meaning like

the actual physical structure of america

the phone lines the trains the cars

this is its own american reality it's

you it's unique

uh relative to other countries in the

world because imperialism is directly

tied into the economy which materially

is reflected in the society itself when

you look at how the trains are about how

many i mean i live in los angeles right

now

and i agree this city is [ __ ] satanic

and one of the reasons why is because

there's like

horrible horrible traffic everywhere

because it wasn't designed with people

in mind it's not like north korea it's

not like china the civilization itself

is

it materially exists as a different

being on the planet

than these other civilizations so i

think when you when you talk about

patriotic socialism

i just don't see a path forward for

which you can unite the american working

class together

against the deep state

when this country runs on the deep state

meaning that in the short term at if if

if the imperialist nature of america

were to collapse in on itself in the

short term

this would be destructive for american

society in total

so when you when you're when you're

leading an american patriotic socialist

movement

what what

what are you binding what vision are you

bringing like the people through like

what vision of the future are you

bringing the people through because to

me i see a

a future that is

very much coming it's already coming and

i don't think it really fits in your

framework

but i'd like you to explain that to me

more if you could

the um

the future you're talking about is

socialism

okay

it's a revolution in the forces of

production

we just lack the political will to um

be worthy of it basically but yeah it's

every revolution in the forces of

production

does take the form of some kind of

socialism right in history

okay because it requires the state to

intervene in some kind of way

specifically

um to

basically um

to initiate policies and actions on

behalf of the majority of people it to

to retain sovereignty and retain its

existence right

so

when you so you said a lot of things you

said you don't see how in the current

direction how can the working class be

united against the deep state but the

working class is already being united

against the deep state it's just that

communists or socialists are not leading

the effort

and

there's a there's a big um mistake

people make

and actually someone raised this in my

discord and i can address it right now

which is like

what is the relationship between

politics and like directly the standard

of living or how easy it is to live and

what we depend upon so like for example

you could say well americans way of life

is dependent upon

the unequal

economic relationship between the united

states and other countries

well this is a really bad uh

simplification of understanding like

global systems theory and understanding

could i interject really quick

go ahead

could you repeat what you just said

there sorry i i'm

i'm my mind's going a million miles

repeat what

the that's the very last thing you said

the um so for example a lot of people

say why would americans rise up when the

american way of life is dependent on

like for example

deep state's policies

right right

so someone raised this uh point in my

discord and they were basically like

well you know what lenin is arguing

against caleb maupin

because caleb is saying that the essence

of communism is to increase the

productive forces and raise people's

center living and he pointed out how

lenin was arguing against these um

german social democrats who were saying

that a revolution in germany right now

would lead to a decline in a

deterioration in the standard of living

and therefore it's not in the workers

interests to pursue it

right

so here you have direct evidence of

lenin contradicting maupin

but the issue here

is that first of all it doesn't take

into effect into account time right

there's a temporary sacrifice that has

to be made for the long term

uh

right standard of living being raised

right so that's the issue of time that's

not being taken into account but the

more fundamental problem posed by this

is what is the relationship between

people's political interests and their

immediate standard of living and way in

life the truth is is that it's indirect

even if

americans are not going

to let

um a deterioration in their standard of

living

stop them from opposing imperialism and

opposing the ruling class

because there's no direct relationship

between those things it's an indirect

relationship and if it's an indirect

relationship

they will feel the effects of their

struggle and their action maybe in the

form of um

a deterioration in their standard of

living but that's a side effect of

struggle human beings will sacrifice

their way of life politics is not about

direct

um

consumption

politics is about a war within like the

symbolic order it's about a war of

meaning right it's about a war

of being right and for this war

if since politics is an extension of war

people will even give their lives for

this war right it's not it's not a

question of people will be unwilling

because they don't want to lose their

standard of living

they don't have a direct political

relationship to their standard of living

to begin with their standard of living

will rise and fall

and their political

relationships to the state into the

political class war has no

they won't feel the direct relationship

right it's not like for example

the signifier

that's being triggered when people rail

against the deep state is i'm gonna have

less stake for my barbecue

the signifier specifically pertains to

an issue of corruption an issue to um

warfare right it's not

it's not directly about consumption

yeah but be like are you speaking you

you talk you said earlier and you're

kind of alluding to it here you know in

america i i think really america is a

unique case because you mentioned

political will you know

to me it's like

how so in this country

political will in what sense like what

is the alternative because to me this is

just like a phenom like american

politics to me is not really a war like

maybe you know politics if you're

talking in a broad universal sense sure

but like to me american politics at this

point is is mostly just

you know the pentagon operates entirely

on its own for the most part

like the cia is really working

independently and the white house acts

as a pr room

for

the face of

the american civilization like you know

when they when they put these

people out for the state department

whether it's biden or trump like they're

all actors like at the end of the day

they're all actors they're not

those individuals that are then

conceptualized in our mind and it starts

crafting our narrative which is the

basis from which almost every american

is going to operate at

you know because like even

what i'm saying is even in america if

you look

at

communities like jimmy dore i love jimmy

dore i love jimmy dore

i think he's a great guy but like if you

read his community like they are very

much anti-china he said

something decent about china and the

whole his whole today in the stream his

whole chat was going against china oh

that all the hospitals are falling apart

and they're reflecting institutions that

exist that are interwoven with the

military-industrial complex so

i think it's a lot simpler though i

don't think you have to talk about

institutions and the military-industrial

complex i think you just talk about the

fact

that for reasons that actually might

relate to the propaganda coming from the

military-industrial complex one way or

another

there has come to be an association

between china

and

the all-encompassing tyranny of the

government uh and specifically like the

new type of tyranny that western

governments are attempting to um

they see in china a dark future more or

less right so this is because they have

acquired a false

understanding of china if they're

presented a china in a different light

actually even just based on facts

is that phenomenon possible like is it

possible for there to be a movement

inside of america in 2022 or within the

next 10 years in which it's

majority it's just accepted broadly that

it's okay to have a popular view on

china because let me tell you like i was

just reading it i don't even play tennis

i was reading a tennis magazine at my

friend's house the other day and i turn

one page and it's like the most

ridiculous yeah we have a lot of

anti-china sentiment and propaganda i'm

realizing

so

what i realized

recently is that it's like

it's so beyond

like everything you hear bad about i i

don't think it's it's it's a

metaphysical um impenetrable like

mystery i think

i don't think it's i think it's very

easy to convince people that china is

not in fact the thing i've done

i've done it to a bunch of people you

know my friends did it to me um you know

i used to watch [ __ ]

oh my god i used to watch bosh dude for

a while i was [ __ ] terrible

but i was i got out of that luckily um

[ __ ] i debated him when i first became

an ml and i did a i didn't do a great

job because i had no idea what the [ __ ]

i was talking about but

yeah and a whole different

thought

but um i just don't i just i still

when you talk about patriotic socialism

so like you

yeah i think we really need to get to

like the point of what the contention is

right we need to get to the point of

what the issue is the contention is that

i i don't think patriotic socialism as a

community can coexist with the

mechanisms in society that american

people are bound to

like which one specifically

um

just like the way society is

the social sphere we live in is very

much based on consumerism and that

consumerism is very much based on the us

united states

ability to sanction other countries

that's actually not true um

so this no the structure of a consuming

china is becoming

yeah but america doesn't really produce

anything it's like

anymore that doesn't help america or

americans

okay

there's a very wrong view of consumerism

according to which we are like the fat

guys in wall-e and everyone's our slave

because they make things for us

but i don't i don't think that well no

i'm sorry let's

please

not

mistaken this for me saying oh there's

no more i don't care about nuance first

of all i don't care about nuance

i care about

good generalizations okay so there's

good generalizations i don't it's not

that it's wrong because it's more

nuanced it's fundamentally wrong

because it doesn't it mistakens the

it mistakens what makes a country have

an industrial edge a country is going to

be more powerful and more successful

when it's manufacturing things and it

doesn't matter who it's manufacturing

things for okay

it's just manufacturing things and it

owns those means of production

nationally right so the fact that we

don't produce anything here doesn't mean

that

we're in some kind of dominant position

it actually means that jobs are becoming

worse in quality for the majority of

people and therefore the spending power

of people

is becoming pegged to credit and debt

specifically debt printed by the

government or debt taken on personally

which is enslaving them to the banks

so

i mean like that specific problem you

described of us not producing anything

has literally been the source of

a lot of the populism within america

against the status quo because people

are not content

but if you look at that populism look

where it goes

like

i don't think it's gone anywhere i think

it's still here

but but it's very much into the

establishment like that like what are

the anti-establishments and right okay

and

i don't think i just

based what is the popular space in

america because if you're talking about

a populist base like tucker carlson's

base which tucker carlson occasionally

has good views on some things tucker

carl says carlson's base is just like

the purest form of liberal you can get

yeah but i i i also think you are

engaged

i think you're you're engaging in

something called idealism

i know the scientific like you can i

know what it is but i don't think you

know you know what i'm gonna say though

i think what you think is that

what is you're not actually addressing

where populism comes from or what it

actually is

you're addressing its established

manifestations right that exists now

yeah

which which which which makes it

impossible for you to anticipate future

forms of populism

and no not necessarily okay i don't i

don't see why that would be the case

you're saying right because since i'm

since i'm observing the current yeah

there are a lot of ambiguous forms of

populism that have not been established

into a neat box yet but isn't that

something different because to me

yeah why not i don't see how it's

different for example where new yorkers

i'll explain why i think it's different

i think it's different because the

actual because the populism exhibited in

america is an individualist

manifestation to borrow a word you just

like it's not populism like in the ussr

or in china like it's just not when when

populism american comes up it's banned

all together

uh

we don't give a [ __ ] about anyone else

but it's not an actual sense of for the

people like tucker carlson's base

doesn't really give a [ __ ] about people

like you no that's all you know helen

all populism

is by your own definition

individualistic you know because when i

say band together i don't give a [ __ ]

about anyone else that's that's that's

materialist populism no because now

you're a pl now i don't mean that as an

idealistic universal i'm not saying ban

to everyone who bands together is

abstractly bad and if you come together

then that's bad because no that's i

think you you don't know what i'm saying

at all i'm saying

all populism is based not on morality

not on compassion not on empathy but

actual material interests of people

right so yes it's it's always by

definition

but as you bizarrely describe it

individualistic okay it's not moral it's

not based on having concerns

no it's not based on morality i agree

it's not it's not compassion it's that

compassion has nothing to do with

politics compassion is for puppies

and possibly like yeah compassion is

like a uh you know it's like a

it's like i don't wanna say icing on the

cake but it's just a byproduct of of

something that exists more more

fundamentally yeah so i mean it's it's

it's so it's

when you say they band together we don't

give a [ __ ] well that's what all

populism is

okay so let's so let me put it this way

if you if you

i don't think necessarily like

you're talking about

you're interpreting it as if i'm saying

it abstractly and and you're saying that

the phenomena so like you're saying the

phenomenon in china for example the

collective you don't think there's a

collective

force that is fundamentally different

between chinese populism and american

populism because when you look at

american populist movements they tend to

be

white nationalists like does that count

as a as an american you're not talking

about populism you're talking about the

super structural apparatus

that is giving ideal form to the popular

well yeah i mean aren't they tied so the

difference is that china has a leading

communist party that is the only

difference is that the communist party

in china leads the populist sentiment

that's the only difference that's the

only difference that's the only

difference between america and china is

that

is that there's a communist party in

china and that's the only difference or

do you think that the con that the

reason there's a communist party in

china is because there were there was a

history behind china which led towards

that becoming a reality which is just

materially extremely different from the

history in which america was built upon

it's both okay obviously china's unique

history in civilization

hey can you just stop [ __ ]

interrupting me

okay

it's obvious that china's unique history

okay

gave rise to the circumstances out of

which communists would be victorious but

you cannot underplay

the role of communist consciousness and

the role of the competence and

effectiveness of communists specifically

in being not obviously there is a

historical reason i'm just saying

um that doesn't say anything

prescriptively about what communists in

america should be doing we can't sit

here and say oh we don't have the

correct historical conditions to rise to

power because we're different than china

we are different from china and

competent communists should be able to

articulate those differences and also

with it we need also a better theory of

why russia and china were more disposed

to communism and if we have that type of

reflexive theory communism can be

victorious in the west and in america

and that's been the whole purport of my

project is that the reason communists

have failed in the west in america isn't

just because of differing historical

factors but also because of the

insufficient theoretical insufficiency

of the communists in these

countries that have disallowed them to

actually learn from the experience of

russia and china

theoretical like do you mean how they

actually applied theory or do you mean

they actually just didn't know theory

themselves

western communists did not know how to

interpret

and learn from the victory of communists

in the soviet union in china like for

example western communists did not

interpret mao's victory in china by

trying to have an american populism and

translate that into american conditions

all they did was try and replicate the

ideological fanaticism of the red guards

during the late stages of the cultural

revolution

completely sidestepping the point and

the meat and potatoes and the essence of

why communism was victorious in china we

can translate this essence into america

we just have to know what we're doing

and communists in this country don't

know what they're doing

but like

the idea that you just need better

communist leaders in america to then

free the minds of the the americans

living in america no we don't need to

free their minds we just need that

that's backwards from the way it would

go like you can't just you can't just

present good ideas to the american

people that are totally not in alignment

with their

crafted reality of what they live in due

to growing that's literally what's

happening that's already happening about

how western communists were so

unsuccessful yeah yeah

because they they grew up in the west

and even they were

reflecting their own you know

society

you're you're basically you're engaging

in this like philosophical confusion

about the relationship between free will

and determinism right

and of course marxism leninism has a

very specific articulation about this

relationship and it's that freedom is

insight into necessity so being born in

the west is not an excuse for being

ineffective it may have made it so it

was less easier to for you to stumble

into victory just because of the passive

result of your environment and your

conditions around you but the whole

point of theory and consciousness is to

be able to learn from those things so

when in in china and russia when

communists accidentally and it's not

because they're superior humans in

russia and china it's because yes those

conditions enabled them to be victorious

in ways that weren't possible here but

then it's our task to correctly

interpret why that was so that it can be

replicated here we are not the passive

result of our environment that's where

i'm that's where i'm like that's where

the train of thought just i can't follow

you there because it's like you're

already looking for you're like oh well

why didn't it work

we have to figure out how it will work

you're assuming like your analysis of

the past is on the assumption that it

can work in the future when

why

so why can't it work in the future

because i don't

it applies to marxism as a whole hold on

that whole thing applies to marxism as a

whole

you're assuming marx was assuming that

socialism can work in a future on what

basis well the whole point is to

establish a scientific relationship to

reality including the reality you live

to in the west and just have that

working relationship you're not

promising any future outcome you're

establishing a specific relationship

between the organization the party and

the class the working class once you

establish that relationship that working

relationship everything proceeds from

there that's the step one that

westerners can't do

okay

so i i can ask let me ask you a question

then so like in a in a

communist america led by patriotic

socialist

all the ships all the navy ships all the

uh air all the f-35s that are

you know

malfunctioning i wish i could worry

about that i wish i could worry about

what i'm saying i wish i could worry

about what we're gonna do with our

[ __ ] military when literally step one

right now is just having a working class

party that is based in the working class

that draws support from us at least a

significant minority of the working

class like that's just step one what

you're talking about is step nine

thousand 9999 and by the time we get

there who [ __ ] knows what anything we

don't even know what anything will be

like

by the time you get there it's just

going to stay the way it is because then

then at that point when you already okay

so what you're saying is that you just

want an excuse to sit on your couch and

do nothing

no well then how do you know it's going

to be the same you're like inventing

this cops to justify some ulterior

motive to just sit on your couch and do

nothing how do you know it's going to be

the same you don't know that nothing sit

on the couch and do nothing but

i'm not saying also to that it's

possible to lead a

communist movement in america that

is

that takes on the identity of being a

patriotic socialist and because because

you say you say as part of the patriotic

socialist identities you you know you

want

it's not an identity it's not an

identity every every you

there's an identity behind the

patriarchy no it's there is not there is

not that identity has been forced upon

us because those people are different

from us

and they are trying to identify us

well i'm not talking about the one

that's forced upon you i'm just talking

about there's no identity it's not based

on an identity okay sure sure

maybe i didn't use the best choice of

words there but i was getting at

something else what i'm saying is

when you say you want to you know bring

america to a better future right because

you're connecting with working-class

americans that are not all going to be

watching marxist-leninist streams

and reading theories so you kind of have

to meet the people where they're at when

you're you know doing this right that

people do not give a [ __ ] about ideology

they don't they don't yeah they don't in

the terms of actually like being active

and going to do so you don't have to

meet them in the middle ideologically at

all you just have to actually address

their reality correctly in a way they

understand

yeah i guess

i guess the the

the issue is that when if you're

anti-imperialist and you're anti uh

if you're if you're

if you're essentially anti the

established order like the immediate

short term which you've acknowledged

earlier is going to be a rough ride it's

not going to be pretty like it's just

not

so i mean when you're leading a

patriotic socialist movement and you

want what's best for america and you're

dealing with people who don't give a

[ __ ] about ideology so they're not

thinking

oh i read satan revolution i understand

you know that

the the future is coming and you know

like it's not going to be like that and

you're selling them a reality that

you're going to bind selling anything

for america

trump's movement

yeah has led to a considerable risk

of the political situation in america

deteriorating right

i i mean trump made me an ml so okay

and also the economic situation as a

result

and people don't care because yes

ideally we do want a better society we

want to pursue that but if as a result

of that conflict

you're going to have

um you know troubles and economic

troubles

a side effect that is completely

immaterial okay it has nothing to do

with the motivations for why people are

going to be loyal to the political

movements they do they're not going to

say oh well we're not going to side with

trump because trump is leading to

instability to say i don't care about

instability i care about what's right

and what's wrong and trump's right we

want to fight we're not going to let the

enemy win and in pursuit of fighting

their enemy they don't care what's going

to happen they don't they don't care if

it leads to an economic breakdown or it

leads to some kind of political turmoil

and that's that's it's not because trump

has brainwashed them into an ideology

it's it's because they've they've had

it's because it's because the it's

because struggle itself

and waging this struggle itself this war

itself

has already shifted

or

initiated them

into being

soldiers of a political war

if you're a soldier of a war your

primary concern

is no longer about your immediate

personal interests

it's about who's going to win this war

your side or their side earlier earlier

you were saying populism is just a

matter of personal interest and no one

thinks no i was granting you

your bizarre and arbitrary claim that

populism is just individualism and i

said okay by that definition all

populism is individualized first first

let me i gotta introduce i didn't even

say

yeah yeah you said you said the tucker

carlson you said american populism is

individualistic

every single person it doesn't matter

it's not it's not material to the point

it's not material to the point what you

said was tucker carlson populism is

individualistic okay well i said okay

then by that definition of individualism

all populism is individualistic no i why

why would i think that i said i think

that

oh you think oh you're saying you think

all populism is individualism if you're

by your definition

yes

okay yeah i wouldn't myself call it

individualistic but if you're going to

define individualism that way then sure

all populism is individualistic

but you haven't correctly described

trump tucker carlson's populism as

individualistic because tucker carlson

supporters are not primarily concerned

with

make making all the decisions that are

going to lead to the most optimal

individual outcome as far as

economic stability is concerned

when they talk about

fighting for okay let me i'm just gonna

like i don't know if i have to do this

microsoft paint or something

it's actually very simple right here

right okay

when you create a political movement

around

um increasing everyone's wealth and

having a better standard of living okay

that can itself be the impetus for a

contradiction with other political

factions or political sides of the aisle

right

that can lead to a war

and it's the war that matters

and that's primary okay so if you

actually want to fight for a better

standard of living or a better world

winning the war is the most important

thing not being consistent with the

principle you uh have defined yourself

on the basis okay

so

because political that political war is

the basis of your political faction

so if if i want to fight for a better

standard of living

i have to paradoxically engage in

actions and decisions

that will lead to a worse standard of

living right

yeah that's a natural consequence of my

position my vision

being politically antagonistic

okay so i'm in america

uh the the reality is that

we have been inundated with

anti-communist propaganda for

decades it means nothing it means so

this is what i'm saying is is what

you're saying now essentially the fact

that most americans are are

anti-china

i i don't it doesn't faze me i i i'm

just i can't respect i cannot respect

american communists

who are intimidated or impressed or

overwhelmed by the ideological superfice

when you look at the meat and potatoes

and actually try to understand what

people really and essentially mean by

these ideologies

you will not have this lack of

confidence of being able to persuade

people

that your

position is correct like okay well

everyone was you're it's like it's like

it's like it's so childish oh people are

saying mean and bad things about

communism it's almost like a child this

is this is what it's like this is what

it's like i'll explain to you what it's

like not about it it's it's it's like

it's like a child it's like a child

having a teddy bear that they project

all of their feelings of goodness and

warmth and kindness on and then they see

other people

pissing and [ __ ] on this teddy bear

and they just can't get over this

superstition that these people are

pissing and [ __ ] on their sense of

warmth and wholesomeness when what those

people have in mind when they're

[ __ ] on the teddy bear is that the

teddy bear is an actual an [ __ ] and a

murderer or something and it's like you

can't get over that it's the teddy bear

you cannot get over that it's the teddy

bear that's that's being incriminated

here

is it the teddy bear china yeah the

teddy bears the word china or communism

or anything else just like you're saying

it's an emotional response and i'm

saying

because china and communism is your

teddy bear

you're not focusing on what it actually

means you're just focusing on the

superficial word and the superficial

ideology instead of what it actually

means in reality you're just focusing on

like

the specific way you cope with reality

through ideology instead of actually

caring about what the ideology is

supposed to really and essentially mean

ideologies and words are supposed to

make our reality more intelligible so

communist ideology is not hold on hold

on communist ideology is not supposed to

be a [ __ ] coping mechanism that we

have this sensitive attitude toward it's

supposed to make our reality clearer and

more intelligible than it otherwise

would be that's what scientific

socialism is so i can care less if

americans harbor superficially harbor

anti-communist views because i know

what they think of when they think of

communism is not what i think of when i

think of communism it has a utility

that they can be shown the utility and

it will completely change the meaning

right you're acting i feel like you're

acting those if you're in a vacuum with

the american people post

you know

trump era because there's going to be

other competing forces and other

coercive forces and other you know it's

not just yeah and

the science the science of marxism

predicts

the science of marxism predicts that all

of those forces will fail because they

don't have a scientific relationship to

their own material object they don't

have the scientific language to describe

the actual historical and material

forces that they are attempting to

articulate in reference

so what happens though i mean

if you're leading a patriotic socialist

movement and let's say you know

different a different variety of

patriotic socialists comes up that does

adopt the anti-china and does have a

pro-imperialist name which may very well

happen okay yeah and they do want to

keep the military industrial complex

they do say china is bad and they want

freedom individually it probably will

happen at this pace honestly

yeah it probably uh aoc

that's probably what's going to happen

yeah and i think it could happen with

the movement you essentially see

yourself as a sure

i mean the social democratic movement

gave rise to fascism

yeah so

what's your point

well my point is that i think uh

i think

the reality is that the patriotic

socialist movement is

really part of that phenomenon that's

occurring right now

is that like it's it's adopting the

aesthetics no because even fascism all

even fascism is ultimately condemned to

fail

it may temporarily acquire power but

ultimately it's condemned to fear german

communists were right when they said

fascism would ultimately fail it did

ultimately fail and the result was that

in the eastern part of germany

communists acquired power

i mean fascism had one goal which was to

wage and win war and it lost it lost its

wars

the italians lost in ethiopia

humiliatingly and then they lost in

world war ii i mean is that comparable

to the to the american you know

is that really comparable i mean i don't

see what you what your point is because

yes is it possible that opportunistic

forces will have an easy time hijacking

communism or a communist movement to

conv because they have because they have

the power of the vested monetary

interests who will fund them and and

yeah whatever that are gonna fund them

of course

but

we never said this wasn't gonna be a war

it is communists have to remain

steadfast in their position

uh hold the line and keep fighting

no matter what you know what but

but tucker carlson is that then he he is

essentially the bastardization of

populism is he not i mean it's like we

don't know we don't i don't think he's a

bastardization of populism i think he is

a spontaneous populist

he's not a scientist

the danger isn't going to come from

tucker carlson the danger is going to

come

when the deep state the democrats in

other words the people behind the

democrats at the very least

start getting behind this fake form of

populism to use against china

that's what's going to be the issue and

that's why communists need to be very

careful

and very steadfast

in keeping the pressure and keeping the

heat

on the deep state and the forces behind

the great reset as long as we direct

popular anger

against them and as long as we wage war

against the democrats and the elites

they will not be able to accomplish this

deception

okay yes seriously

you're saying it you're saying

you know you're agreeing that reality

essentially is going to move forward you

know based on

the current structure that exists but

that

that's not necessarily an in you know

that's not really impeding your

development of a patriotic socialist

movement no my our slogan is the cpusa

2036.

by 2036 which is more than 10 years from

now

our goal is pretty modest we just want a

reformed communist party

that is a mass movement of millions of

people and that's what we want in more

than 10 years we don't we're not saying

we're going to be in power in 10 years

we're not saying we're going to be

president in 10 years we literally just

want a workers party movement by 2036.

but this is the thing

do you want to

that that clears thing up i mean i

definitely

have a different

view on it than i mean but

how what do you mean by

we're not going to become

are you suggesting that one time

eventually do you want to

have someone run for federal office i

mean

possibly

we'll see what we want is a political

platform and you're kind of working are

you not

we want our own corporation we want our

own corporation we want our own way of

generating money

of billions and billions of dollars

potentially

you want to work in order to have a

independent political existence we want

our own corporate machine to participate

in the house of representatives in

congress and sure

of course

nothing's off the table

nothing is off the table

if you are successful

unless there's a drastic collapse of

this country in the states already

smashed and destroyed if you are

successful in having someone attain the

office of presidency then you've already

been compromised like

if you get that again you are thinking

of everything in terms of end goals

and you're not thinking of things in

terms of what the meaning of aspiring

toward that end goal is for a struggle

so when you run a candidate you're not

necessarily expecting to win you may win

who knows you're open to whatever

outcome

is this pre-destruction of the us state

you know what i'm saying like like

ultimately as a communist you you would

need to smash the american state before

anything else no i mean no you don't

aspire to smash anything

i don't mean i don't mean you don't you

don't aspire to smash anything

you merely prepare yourself for a

collapse

which is what communists have done and

or prepare yourself for a revolutionary

circumstance which are unlikely but you

still prepared for it to happen when it

which is effectively the same thing as a

collapse right so when the moment comes

you seize the moment but beyond this no

you don't smash anything per se

and

it's a kind of like a fallacious

smash is a little bit of a you know it's

it's a fallacious way of reasoning

though you're saying

if don't you need to this you need to

dismantle at some point

the uh

a huge sector of the economy needs to be

just totally turned on its head and like

banking and i mean because if you turn

the military the reason why i focus on

the military-industrial complex so much

is because every single other industry

that exists in america is interwoven to

it

if you if the military-industrial

complex fails the entire system of

america failed it's all connected the

banking is connected to military they're

industrial complex and the banking's

left you know i mean it's just

it's all one network of blood flow so

what what exactly is your point

i mean

i've i don't have i was just

saying that i don't think uh

i didn't really have a point

in that in that sentence i'm just

responding to what you were saying but

yeah

responding to what

i don't know one of the things you said

bro i forgot okay what i was trying to

say is that

running and aspiring to become president

doesn't mean

doesn't mean you're gonna be president

at all costs so it doesn't mean for

example that oh if it push came to shove

would you compromise with the

establishment if you could be president

no of course not no yeah okay so

aspiring to be president doesn't mean

that it's about the end goal

of being president as the ultimate ends

okay the ultimate ends

is squarely defined by the institution

of the communist party and not by the us

government okay so the ultimate ends is

securing the proletarian dictatorship

serving the people being a tribune of

the people that's serving the interests

of the working class that's the ultimate

interest

i just yeah i don't see that as being

possible i think if you attempt to enact

like this patriotic

socialism movement on on a large scale

then uh what do you mean on a large

scale can you please explain what you

mean on a lot longer i don't think

patriotic socialism

existing on twitch or youtube is the

same as

um as the so how are you not a crab in a

bucket

i am doing like

the bit like what the the most i can do

as a human being

which is media

and you're a crab in a bucket bitching

that i'm just on [ __ ] twitch right

now and then i'm not king of the [ __ ]

universe like what do you want from me

i don't i don't know it's like i try to

do one thing

one simple thing and i'm held to the

standard of being the universal god

emperor of the [ __ ] universe and

you're complaining that i'm just on

twitch or i'm just on youtube well what

do you want from me you want me to just

do nothing like you and sit on my couch

what what actually do you want from me

i think i just don't think you should be

what should i be doing instead of of

doing this

i mean you're doing what you're doing is

fine okay so why are you why are you

saying i don't think if it's on twitch

like why are you being a crab in a

bucket

like

just saying something isn't possible

before it even is able to happen i mean

i'm just starting media i've just

started this right

like

this is a very fresh nascent tendency

that's emerged

nothing has yet come of it and it's like

you're complaining that nothing has come

of it okay well you're saying nothing

will ever come of it how do you know i

mean why are you saying that well i

think because the history of

of america suggests that it's just not

phenomenal let me ask you a question

before you've ever heard of me okay okay

before okay before okay i'll ask you a

question before you've ever heard of who

i was ever right would you have been

able to predict that infrared would come

into existence

really

definitely yeah so you predicted

infrared

i was in i was in the very beginning

but you predicted that infrared

was going to exist yes because my

friends were also becoming a male

so you predicted infrared and social

patriotism

um

i mean the socialist patriotism

i feel like you focused on more recently

but that's something i'm specifically

doing i'm not like the other mls what

we're talking about is what you came to

debate about right so would you have

been able to predict that a new tendency

was going to emerge that they call

patriotic socialism

before it even came into being i think

has it not already existed in uh

in history before this was there not a

patriotic socialist movement in america

which okay the answer is obviously no

so you keep

when this is what happens when there's a

new thing that emerges and you keep

talking about history it's very clear

you either don't have an adequate

understanding of history or you're not

able to anticipate events as they're

unfolding in real time

okay yes

i mean you could be right i i will say

that you could be right so i mean

you're not you're not wrong in the sense

i'm just trying to understand i can't

say anything with 100 so what is the

problem i'm just trying to understand

the problem

um

i don't really i don't really have a

problem i just don't necessarily see it

being successful long term but i don't

think that doesn't mean you can't try i

mean you can try and if you do well and

everything stays on course and

you know you don't get co-opted because

yeah but we're you're here to debate

socialist patriotism or whatever so it's

like

what yeah i said what i have to say i

still think that imperialism harm you

know the death of imperialism will harm

the

material reality of the american working

class yeah uh okay assuming

okay assuming that's true assuming

that's right i mean that's true yeah

why is it relevant

well because i think if you i think when

you are in a declining country and

you're leading a patriotic social and

socialism movement the

the logical

step forward for an american who's been

inundated with propaganda their entire

life

is to go towards a reactionary turn of

china did it or

uh

you know they will be that's already

happening and what we are what we are

telling them and what we're trying to

say

is that you cannot go back to the past

and we want to build something instead

of um

cope and say oh china's the problem we

just get rid of because in actual fact

hold on because in actual fact we're

correct we're actually right it's not

just ideology we're right okay

the the reason for america's decline

isn't just because of china it's not

even because of china it's because of

america's own internal contradictions

and as patriots

we want

to

understand those contradictions and be

worthy of them okay so i just don't see

i don't i just don't see what's like

look what are what exactly are you

saying you say okay i think this will

happen what does that have to do with

what we should do

uh

i mean i don't want to like i know

you're

i'm just not a big

you talk about all the time but the use

of the american flag a lot you know it's

like so okay let me ask you a question

let's say we just ditch the american

flag and use a red flag what difference

do how does that help one probably not

probably no

do you think it it even makes it worse

probably

i would just say using the american flag

probably makes your like your ability to

grow your your movement is probably

worsened by using

why

because i think instead of tapping into

people people's actual

self you know when because the working

class a lot of working-class people know

all right what does the american flag

represent to the working class

i can't speak for the working class in

that like okay i i i come from michigan

and i hang around with these people and

i grew up around them and stuff so i'll

tell you what it represents

okay i know what that in that sense yeah

i know

it represents who it represents a part

of who they are okay it represents their

home yeah they represent the part of it

it represents their their the place they

grew up it represents their parents

their family

their homeland it represents their

apple pie

and everything that makes them american

and different from others that's what it

represents okay yeah and freedom and

democracy tn what what that's that's

ideology i'm talking about at a very

unconscious it's not just ideology

because yes it is because what democracy

do we have none okay so it represents

that's why i said it's freedom and

democracy tm so without having to care

about any ideals the american flag

represents to these people

their way of life who they are their

history their culture their parents

their family whatever okay their

barbecues whatever

their food whatever

yeah and their way of life okay working

class people it doesn't but okay i agree

with some

for a lot of working class people that's

not the case but for some yes it is but

i don't i don't i'm not gonna i'm not

gonna for the american working class

okay they're not exceptional

abstract uh you know idea that the

american working class loves and

worships the american flag and they all

love the american flag that's just not

true like that's just not true so

you know it's like i i i i first of all

listen

you were taught from a young age to hate

plato so you hate generalizations right

you hate generalizations you always you

think it's somehow like you're making a

point by saying there's exceptions to

the general trend and it's not actually

a point because it's you're not actually

talking about anything you're not

talking about anything okay no i am

because i'm talking about the base of

people what essential point are you

making by saying not all working-class

people are fond of the american flag

because what's the essential or is there

a symptom

yeah because

i'm not saying it's you're wrong for

taking this route but okay

i don't think this is the viable route i

think this is the route that's i think

the route that you're on can you tell me

what significant portion of the working

class takes issue with the american flag

percentage-wise i have no idea no what

group what specific form that's relevant

because the working class is a form

you're saying there are exceptions

within the form those exceptions do not

assert themselves as having any

significance until they themselves

become a form so what specific form of

the working class has a problem with the

flag

because if there's no independent form

then

it literally means nothing that there's

a small exceptions that have a problem

with the flag nothing

wait and what form are you talking about

then that

okay you are saying not all

working-class people

are fond of the flag right

but if as a general trend

if as a general trend the form of the

working class

does

is fond of the flag right as a general

feature of their form

such that if there are exceptions they

come at the expense of the identity of

the working class as a form okay

what is the point of saying there's

exceptions

i was saying that there's exceptions

because you were talking about the

working class in general like it's some

sort of monolithic okay again again

please learn plato instead of reddit

plato

is about

idea it's about forms right

generalizations you hate generalizations

and you think they're not relevant and

that generalizations can have no

currency because there's exceptions i

don't think i don't think they can have

no currency i just think it's important

like right so let me explain to you

plato can i explain to you plato so from

plato if there are exceptions to a

generality

then those exceptions come at the

expense

of that specific form let me give you an

example if for example it is a general

trend for

let's say um

for goblins to

love ass cheese keep keep this up right

goblins love ass cheese it is a general

trend of goblin-ness the form of being a

goblin they love to munch on ass cheese

you understand

if there are some goblins

that do not

like to munch on uh ass cheese

this is for a reason

that comes at the expense of them being

goblins so insofar as it is a feature of

goblin their goblins they like to munch

on ash cheese if there are some goblins

that don't like to munch on ash cheese

it is for reasons that are different

and come at the expense of their

goblin-ness

so that's plato you think people who

don't

like or do not uh

view the american flag favorably

are like those goblins that don't yes

it's not it has nothing to do with them

being working class

it's for some exceptional reason

really

i don't think you can delineate it like

that even if it's for an exceptional

reason that reason is still tied to

a reality that does objective it's

everything's interrelated okay but yeah

it is not a quality of working-classness

to oppose the american flag

it's not a quality of working classes to

oppose it

is this what you're saying is in general

it's not equality

yes in general working class people are

fond of the flag there are group

exceptions like minorities which is what

i thought you were talking about

but you're talking about individual

exceptions those are completely

meaningless

no i don't i i mean i was talking more

broader if the exceptions are not groups

it is literally immaterial

just by nature okay reddit teaches you

to use this argument in a debate that

when someone attributes features to a

certain identity

they say well you're treating it like a

monolith

yeah that's called reddit uh thinking

okay

no one is saying every single person

who's working class when you trip

generalities

generalities do not deny exceptions

that's that's not generalities can still

be real even if there are if there are

exceptions to it

okay

so and but i'm saying the point of

bringing up that not everyone worships

the flag is because it was in context

related to

your patriotic socialism is going one

direction where i'm saying i see

communism in america

a communist movement going the other

direction where it doesn't lean into

that and i'm saying there is absolutely

potential within the working class

to not identify it doesn't really matter

what they identify with because you know

i agree i'm not i wouldn't have a

[ __ ] where do you identify that

potential

to be against the flag

and patriotism

where are you seeing that potential of

the working class becoming

anti-patriotic

i don't really see that in this country

on a mass scale that's why

i don't that's why i don't think a

communist movement is really going to be

successful

outside of

what

just actually occurs within materiality

i think amer i don't want to be sound

like a doomer but like i pretty much

think america is uh

not really like um

conscious at all like there's no actual

like conscious or collective

consciousness so what

so i think you're operating with like uh

i don't need consciousness i don't need

consciousness i'm already conscious who

do i care about others

i don't need people to already be

conscious when the whole point

is to struggle within the consciousness

that exists i don't need people to

already be communist that's what you're

saying

in effect what you're saying is that

people are not ideologically disposed

enough to my uh consciousness well i

mean you're going to be

completely immaterial identifying as a

patriotic socialist and so are the

liberals in trump's movement so i mean

i'm saying it's like you're not really

just you're not really distinguishing

yourself as something unique

because i'm i'm pretty sure the last

time i checked i call myself a capital c

communist so i'm pretty sure i am

distinguishing

i don't really under i never really

understood like i've watched your stream

of [ __ ] on i've never really understood

what you mean by capital c communist

i never really it literally is what it

sounds like a capital c unapologetic

communist it means we're not communists

with nuance we're not communists who are

explaining oh but um we are we were

distancing ourselves from the ussr and

real communism we are capital c

communists and we are in good faith

embracing all of the intuitive

connotations people have of that we just

think that at the conscious level they

are misinterpreting the meaning of that

but like does this have something to do

with like you know like

like on another one of your streams you

spoke favorably of the us constitution

like why why why you do that

because it's a nice simple clean

constitution

you know i mean that to me that's just

you're leaning into liberalism because

you're you're pulling people from

a liberal movement and they're gonna

stay liberal

what what do you mean liberal first of

all what are you talking about liberal

liberals don't give a [ __ ] about the

constitution

yes they yes they do but they don't

liberals literally keep talking about

how oh we want to rewrite the gun and

change our constitution liberals don't

give a [ __ ] about the constitution i

don't want to do anything with the

constitution shit's going to crash and

burn on its own you know like that's

that's

that should be the communist outlook

like not not oh the constitution

is a document and the uh american

revolution was a rebellion against the

british crown i mean

the american revolution was a

was a

revolution of

an american bourgeois against the

british

bourgeois so i mean

it's like not it wasn't just the

bourgeois it was the island

it was the bourgeoisie alongside the eu

men and the small farmers and the people

against the british as a whole it wasn't

just this bourgeoisie

it wasn't it led and financed and run

yeah

yeah but it it also was in the material

interests of all the other classes too

but see it's like you're to me it seems

like you're crafting there was nothing

essentially bourgeois about it

really i mean don't think the fact that

it

no

it wasn't bourgeois in a sense of coming

at the expense

of the interests of the eu men and the

workers i mean

it was bourgeois only in a historical

sense it wasn't in this sense i mean i'm

gonna say i'm gonna say it i know you're

gonna react [ __ ] horribly but it did

come come at the expense of the native

people who were here so i mean i just

don't think that's what's your point

what my point is that

the brutality that is involved in that

historical

yeah reality

is part of the current historical

reality and it's part of the

constitutional material materially it is

part because it is it is literally

materially materially connected go ahead

how is it that when

construction because the physical

construction of the object known as the

constitution of the united states of

america was only possible

to be created the way in which it was

created which is which required every

single atrocity that was committed

before even okay first of all why did it

essentially require identified

to me the only reason you would speak

and i don't think i'm not sure you

actually think that like i don't know if

you consciously think that the

constitution is some

good clean document or if it's just you

falling into what i was talking about

earlier which is you're a communist who

has a

you are all over the [ __ ] place can

we focus on one thing at a time

how is it

first of all even if it was true that

from for from determinist historical

reason

uh all the stars had to align for the

constitution to be produced in the way

it was

what essentially about our constitution

entails the uh genocide of indigenous

people go ahead

when you say ascent do you mean like the

abstract ideas in this country just the

word it's just please use common sense

ascent what necessarily about our

constitution

must entail the genocide or repression

of indigenous people

i mean the the the way in which the

constitution was set up is reflected

yeah that's not that's that's that's the

whole point even if that's true

even if i grant you that that's the way

it was set up

yeah why does that entail that it is

necessarily

it necessarily entails that now

okay so you need to understand you don't

understand logic none of the issues you

don't understand

i'll explain logic to you

the conditions of the necessity of a

thing in the historical sense say

nothing about what that thing

necessitates in a contemporary sense

so i mean could you apply this logic to

the confederate flag like could you say

that the confederate flag for some

people in the south doesn't mean the

historical oppression what does the

confederate flag mean

i mean are you asking me are you yeah

what does it mean what is it what is the

confederate flag what is it the flag of

if well i mean are we gonna talk on like

a general basis what is it the flag of

the confederacy okay and there you go

it's literally that simple

but it's not that simple yes it is

no it's not it's the flag of the

confederate states of america the

constitution

is a working document that is part of

our state

that guarantees us certain liberties and

rights

it's not just a [ __ ] uh flat it's not

a symbol

you think it actually guarantees

certainly it is it actually legitimately

yes it does legitimately

legitimately yes it [ __ ] does

dude

i literally went to law school only for

one year and already there i can promise

you

because the constitution operationally

literally does secure us rights

and they do try to find loopholes and

circumvent in the best way they can but

there are some things in our

constitution that are so clearly and

unambiguously written that the

government corporations and businesses

literally cannot get away with certain

[ __ ] because of what our constitution

guarantees they do but they do

but they really

yeah okay why can't they throw me in

jail right now okay throw me in jail

right now for this twitch stream why

wouldn't they want to wouldn't they want

to no they can't why would they want to

do that why would they no they would

love to just let you sit here and if

they don't think they literally cannot

do whatever they want i have not studied

the history of supreme court cases in

this country and court cases in this

country they can't just do whatever the

[ __ ] they want our constitution does

protect us like

at the end of the day the working class

gets [ __ ] and you know i'm in la

there's homeless people all over yeah

you know a big issue i'm hearing i keep

hearing this thing i'm in la you where

you live does not represent this country

at all no

you don't i mean i think it i think it

does yeah okay well then okay i'm i'm

from michigan i've lived in la for 45

days and your city

is literally as far removed from regular

america

as [ __ ] timbuktu okay

in no way does la represent it

represents a part of america but it

doesn't represent amer like you don't

have

well what i'm saying is that it

represents a part of america that it

represents our [ __ ] media hollywood

that's what [ __ ] hell is this and

nothing more which exists all throughout

yeah but it's only

the difference is the difference is what

la represents is a tiny part of my

michigan okay it's a tiny part of my

michigan tiny tiny part

most of my michigan has not you don't

find it in la

you don't find my people in la you don't

find your character in la you don't find

the way of life here in la you don't

find

you don't find the industries here that

you find now you don't find that in l.a

okay no but la is the consum is the you

know it's like the uh

the actual location at which american

consumerism is just fully unleashed and

people are fully no it's not that's not

what makes la significant at all and i

mean that the significance really is

hollywood

the significance is aesthetics that's

what ella is yeah and movies and all

that [ __ ] but yeah it's aesthetics in

general that's la's significance

[ __ ] what we what were you talking about

what i'm trying to tell you okay

yeah

yeah so so i don't i don't see uh

what i'm saying when i s to me when you

say all these things about it it gives

his rights and i don't really care about

the pro like

you know what miranda rights are do you

know what miranda rights are i couldn't

read you like the miranda rights but i

know i know yeah do you know what they

are they know like the what freedom it

gives you

i

means you don't have to talk to cops

when you get arrested right yeah you

don't have to talk to them when you get

arrested

right that directly comes from our

constitution directly beat the [ __ ] out

of you if they want

so and that's what then you can sue them

you can sue them

yeah and then lose

like you think because some people sue

and win that that's generally what

happened even in a court overwhelmingly

biased against you

violating the miranda rights directly

through beating you up is such like a

one-sided one-sidedly illegal thing

they wouldn't be able to get away with

it but see this this is my this is my

whole issue with patriotic socialism

because you were i agree with a lot of

what you're saying you know i definitely

see what you're saying all this stuff

but like now we're idealizing the us

constitution we are talking about how it

grants us rights

we're talking about the american

revolution yeah no no no

granted someone in my chat said it's

it's expensive

to sue someone that's true it is a

business but i'm just saying

so i'm saying the material reality of

what you're saying is not the ability to

sue in the first place and win is

something our constitution gives us

that's a low bar man

okay well what what what do you have

against why are you trying to get rid of

the few liberties that we do have i'm

not trying to i'm not trying to so

what's your problem with the [ __ ]

constitution

what is the issue with the constitution

what's the problem with it i don't even

know how to answer what is the problem

with the us constitution i can't i'm not

like i don't is there a problem with

with us having miranda rights and free

speech and is there a problem with all

that

what's the problem no i think it's like

these things are not removed from the

law from larger society itself can you

please be

specific in what you talk about

yeah like in what i just said just just

say things that are real and don't just

throw

meaningless like just say something real

can you say something that refers to

reality specifically like that has

content

what i'm saying is uh

you all the liberties that you're saying

that we have we don't we don't have

that's pretty much my point like you're

saying do you want to get rid of them so

how how will how will getting rid of our

constitution giving is true liberty you

don't get rid of but the thing is you

don't get rid of it so why are you

saying

so but you're talking about the

constitution right now right

you

yeah because you want to lead a

communist movement but you also want to

idealize about the u.s constitution and

why because i said it's a simple and

clean document

that does guarantee a certain

he guess what he guess what yeah yeah

the constitution guarantees rights it

does not do that it does not do that it

is a piece of paper it is literally a

piece of paper that's it that is the

most soy rick and morty reddit [ __ ] i've

ever heard in my [ __ ] life

that the constitution's a piece of paper

it is materially it

you there uh uh uh um uh a uh a throne

is just a chair that's all it is just a

chair

it doesn't represent anything else i

don't have no other meaning it's just a

chair or i'm not trying to diminish its

historical significance that's the

dumbest [ __ ] i've ever heard okay first

of all

the constitution provides communists a

mandate

upon which a war against the deep state

in the ruling class is possible our deep

state is entering into contradiction

with our constitution they don't like

how the constitution gets in their way

the constitution provides us a mandate

the spirit of the document

the spirit of that document is itself a

mandate with which communists can wage a

war against our ruling class

the spirit of that document is communist

is a mandate that will allow communists

to wage war against the ruling class in

this country

i don't think this would the the concept

well then you're [ __ ] wrong even ron

paul knew this ron paul knew that the

[ __ ] they were doing was against our

constitution and he was right

what what do you mean the [ __ ] they were

doing like the invasion of the wars and

the [ __ ] fed and the printing of the

[ __ ] all that [ __ ] nowhere in our

constitution

is that allowed nowhere in our

constitution

is the deep state allowed

exactly look at you you're up you're

literally arguing the opposite point you

are now it's nowhere nowhere is it

allowed in the constitution yet it still

happens

that's my argument so the whole point is

to uphold the constitution against them

holy [ __ ]

yeah so you want exactly you want to

co-opt a symbol that's

that's already proven to be totally

[ __ ]

fake and just and a pr tool for barack

obama and george bush and trump and

hillary to just wave around the u.s

constitution the u.s constitution it's

like that's what you're talking about as

giving us rights in a country that

literally [ __ ] murders people around

the world okay i'm gonna translate what

you said i'm gonna i'm gonna translate

what you said into meat and potatoes so

when i talk to intellectuals like you

you raised some contrived convoluted

[ __ ] point about how well the

constitution has already proven its um

farceness by being uh existing alongside

the very things that contradict yourself

but when i talk to an ordinary working

class [ __ ] guy and i'm just like yo

let's stand by our constitution and

fight the deep state and fight the

ruling class and fight bill gates like

hell yeah brother i'm on board with it

it's like this [ __ ] works when you talk

to ordinary people but when i talk to

you you raise all of these needless

pointless intellectual convolutions that

have nothing to do with the [ __ ]

point at hand

i mean

i just what is the point you're saying

well the constitution has already proven

that it's [ __ ] because why because

it it wasn't able to prevent the deep

state all that proves is that the

constitution all on its own isn't enough

that's the significance of the communist

party the communist party needs to be

the one to defend and uphold the

constitution against them and what's the

[ __ ] problem i mean what you're

saying is so stupid it's like saying oh

oh oh

that's like saying china is evil and

here's why china is evil because cha why

why why mao are you trying to unite

china china itself is what made possible

the breaking up of china

and the century of humiliation so how

could you how could you stand by uh

chinese patriotism and uphold china when

that very thing is what allowed china to

uh it's like such a stupid [ __ ] point

i mean you're totally wrong there

because china is not america and china

does not run on imperialism

no okay you know what yeah it is no no i

am going to lock you down logically i

did go to law school for a year and what

you're saying is so infuriatingly

[ __ ] out of the ballpark logically

speaking you just made a logical

comparison you just said

you made a logical point how can you set

the constitution against the deep state

when the constitution itself

despite not allowing the deep state

exists alongside the deep state proving

it's its efficiency logically speaking

you can say the exact same [ __ ] thing

about china in regards to its century of

humiliation why would you uphold china

and try talking about saving china when

china itself despite its essence being

against uh

imperialism and the spirit of chinese

civilization contradicting british

imperialism how could that itself allow

for how could you how could mao talk

positively about china when china itself

is what led to the qing dynasty and the

century of humiliation it's literally

one for one the exact logical form and

when i present you this [ __ ] fallacy

of thinking you come to me to say well

china's different because it's not

imperial it's not imperialist what does

that have to do with what you said about

the constitution nothing

i mean

in general if you're talking about like

civilization to civilization and you're

trying to say since china

you know has

uh troubled history i'm not talking

about civilization to civilization i'm

using an example to demonstrate how your

point about how just because the thing

exists alongside a thing that

contradicts it doesn't mean that thing

is already condemned or ruined or proven

it's uh inadequacy or it's like

why are you talking about civilization

why

where in the constitution does it say

there's no deep okay so now you're

backtracking and saying and and because

that argument failed you have a new

argument which is that i think that hope

i think that and that is part of your

like

because the constitution sets very clear

parameters of what our government is

supposed to be

and a deep state just is acting as a

shadow government that is nowhere

sanctioned within the constitution

the parameters of our government are

within the constitution the deep state

is not within the constitution it's

literally that simple

but that

since the deep state isn't mentioned in

the constitution or discussed then it

has no legitimacy

so what makes the constitution so

legitimate

it is the founding document of the

american state

but i mean in terms of like uh

being a cornerstone of a communist

movement because it sounds like that's

like what because if patriotic socialism

was initially more like earlier in the

call

i would i i see what you're saying now i

just don't i

i don't see

the uh

the reasoning or the or the

to me it's like a failure in like uh

in recognizing that the constitution is

inseparable from the society that

existed back then which then led to

today and i know this is kind of what

you've been saying thank you so based

okay so

thank you

what you are trying to say is that

there's no contradictions everything is

the way it is because it had to be

and it's an essential feature of the

thing

the only thing is this is this is where

this is where your lack of education and

philosophy comes in okay

what you're saying is technically true

all that is real is rational is but

hegel put it right

yeah but how do you know what's real or

not how do you know for example that the

way the world is now

is essentially real rather than for

example undergoing a process of conflict

contradiction antagonism and destruction

how do you how you're saying okay well

you're trying to you're trying to set in

a populist way the constitution against

the deep state well the constitution

itself is what led to the deep state so

how can you separate the two okay

how do you know the deep state is our

final form though why can't i say the

communist movement is our final form why

is it the deep state is our final form

how in what way and how could the deep

state be your final form what do you

mean by that like your final you're

saying the deep state is the ultimate

culmination of the constitution

i don't know about the ultimate

culmination okay well then you're not

saying anything then because i'm saying

i'm saying the communist party is the

ultimate culmination you're saying the

deep state's the ultimate culmination is

the culmination of the

of the

aspiration of western individual rights

the the fetishization of western

individual rights is what leads to the

deep state being able to is is that a

scientific statement what you just said

no i wouldn't say so

why would you say that

did i commit a sin or something what's

wrong you committed something worse than

a sin because sins are often

some of the biggest sins are made with

intelligence what you just said was just

thoughtless

how is it thoughtless

you said the the deep state is the

culmination of the western idea of

individuals

yes it's like the deep state is like a

uh is to me it's like uh

the deep state is when you

are anarch when you have leftists that

are anarchist essentially what enables

the deep state yeah like the deep state

is not inseparable from the

individualism that is observable within

american society it's like the fact that

we live in such

how is american individualism

essentially

the deepest that they reflect it's

they're both reflective of the same

thing like even if that was true what

about the essence responsible for the

deep state but the reality that created

the deep state functions and is

premised on individual western

individuals

which is tied into the club jackson

which is part of

okay everything is interrelated the sun

and the moon and the stars and my own

shining ass what is your point in

america

what is the essence what is the essence

what is the essence

what's your point

patriotic socialism would be

i just by pointing out things are

related or share an origin or share a

reality does not tell us whether they

are essentially related or whether they

essentially share a reality

because the ideals you are exposing

tells

you know is what would show me the

direction in which

your movement is headed like if you want

to go for instance like you you wonder

complaining on the streets like what you

know my viewer account is 400 maybe

you'd get more viewers if you just

uh

you know like maybe that's the reason

why is because it's not really

attainable by

by pushing that sort of

like

so why why okay

so why was i at 600 and rising in the

fall

i mean la had a big part of it but i

think i mean oh was it la or was it

because of this grand general problem of

my whole ideology

um

what is stupid i hate this stupid soy

[ __ ] so [ __ ] much i'm about to say so

many slurs i gotta stop myself i can't

[ __ ] believe what you're [ __ ]

saying you're sitting here and telling

me this is like when people say when the

ussr is about to collapse oh this is

because the whole ideology of marxism is

flawed really you decided it's flawed at

this specific moment when there are

these specific particular reasons for

why it's happening shut the little [ __ ]

up you literally represent laziness

idleness giving up you represent the

most [ __ ] [ __ ] mentality i can

[ __ ] think of where when one thing

goes wrong when one thing goes wrong

instead of focusing on music i'm just

gonna give up as a whole this whole

thing is [ __ ] fruitless i've gone as

far as i [ __ ] have i went from 600

average to yeah four or 500 average now

as of the past two weeks and now you're

saying well what if this incriminates

the entire

entire theoretical project you're doing

i'm not i don't you are a [ __ ]

parasite you're a crab in the [ __ ]

bucket the minute i go down by five

viewers you to latch on and spread this

whole [ __ ] narrative about why the

whole thing is [ __ ]

you haven't been here to build anything

up all you do is give explanations for

why [ __ ] falls you never know the meat

and potatoes and the spark and the

creative fire that gives rise to

something you don't have the creative

fire in your [ __ ] stomach to build

anything creatively so you sit here and

nibble on every small [ __ ] failure

someone does and try to explain it oh

the reason this guy lost the fight this

reason this guy lost the fight was this

great you know [ __ ] about why someone

hey shut the [ __ ] up don't pretend and

sit here like you know why someone would

lose a [ __ ] fight when you've never

even been in the [ __ ] ring i'm not

even saying you lost the fight i wasn't

even like don't [ __ ] sit here and try

to [ __ ] give these explanations for

oh has is down 100 or 200 viewers

tonight it's it can't be because he

streamed late

it can't be because he streamed later

than usual it's although the whole it

has to be it has to be something that

can literally not explain

when you asked me don't didn't i say la

isn't that what i said yeah which

contradicts

you know you were talking about how you

have four why are you talking about my

views nobody even mentioned my [ __ ]

views we were talking about reviews

maybe that says this whole thing you're

doing is not viable yes i said give up

and be like you you're right in that i'm

wrong about that you're writing that i

was wrong about that i don't know why

you get so [ __ ]

because it's because so many people do

it and it's [ __ ] infuriating because

because all these people think that oh

really all these people think

like why you're like on it i mean i know

this [ __ ] probably is on your mind a lot

which i yeah yeah yeah so the minute the

minute i go down 100 viewers all these

[ __ ] lazy losers who have never built

anything in their whole [ __ ] life can

try to create a narrative and try to

create a monopoly of

trying to explain why it's happening as

if they know anything about streaming or

know anything about what i'm [ __ ]

doing here in the first place

yeah

i understand i understand that

i did

i didn't really mean it in like a super

pejorative sensor like i wasn't i really

was not trying to make a bigger point

but

yeah i mean

i was just kind what i was really saying

is that

uh i just don't see the

[Music]

the react i just don't see the reality

you do really

but that's also i'm not coming at this

from the perspective like you think i'm

coming from that from the box that

you've constructed of that

you know you think i'm like a parasite

and i want i think you you know i'm

criticizing your effort to build i'm not

doing any of that what i'm saying is i

just don't i just don't see the vision

you see and that's what i'm debating

about but i'm not trying to include so

debate about it yeah i mean

yeah sure i mean yeah

i do not mean to uh okay just get to the

debate part

yeah

um when you're talking about the uh

constitution and [ __ ]

yeah

yeah so

why but why don't you instead of

harnessing patriotic socialism outside

of the constitution thank you uh thank

you sub bass appreciate you

go ahead

is it only something to relate to the to

the americans that

that are like is that the angle that you

come at it with it's like that's where

the popular bit that's where the popular

consciousness exists is within the

american sphere so that you know using

the american flag is what's going to

lead people wait can you can you repeat

your question

what i'm saying is

are you appealing the patriotic

socialist movement is it appealing

with the like are the reasons you're

using the constitution actually because

you think it's a good document or do you

think it's good to use that

idea as a as a way to relate to common

working people do you actually love your

mother or is it just because she's your

mother

i love my mother for everything she's

done

which is because she's my mother so i

love mine so it's the same exact thing

it's literally the same exact thing

you are making it seem like oh i i've

i've found a contradiction

if you were to begin from a blank slate

you has would not probably have

uh

made the constitution as it exists you

probably would have made something else

but this notion of reality is wrong in

the first place reality is not something

we make from a blank slate

it's something we inherit from something

we don't individually create so

constitution means i have to humble

myself to realities i am not in control

of

what but

okay so then what prevents you

from leading like

if you're using all this american

lithography

do you think this doesn't turn into a

predom and i don't not trying to like

you know invoke like an accusation of

racism but it's like don't you think

that would primarily lead to just a

vastly majority white party in america

or do you think the it would be a

majority white insofar as our country is

majority white

but you don't think it would be like uh

it would adopt a white identity

no

why

when you say things like white identity

you're saying all of the black latino

mexican whatever people in this movement

they should have a problem why why bring

up race

i mean it's not an it's not really

necessarily about quote-unquote bringing

it up it's just the fact that uh

you know

in our liberals our communist movement

would be significant look my channel is

already significantly less white

than the dsa

yeah of course yeah i believe that

so what is your point

probably there may even there may even

not be a white majority maybe it'll be

majority uh mexico and latino and maybe

they will be the vanguard maybe black

will be the vanguard who knows

it doesn't matter yeah i mean i believe

that's i believe i believe

that that's the vision i just don't know

it just has to be something that isn't

going to exclude anyone

and is going to be able to win the

majority

but do you do you not think that like

using the american flag is going to

include some people

no because there's nothing inherently

white about the american flag

i mean i think i think i have a

different opinion on it

it why is the american flag inherently

white

it's not that the american flag itself

is inherently white but that

the

basis

of people

the american people the the

history of the worship and admiration of

the american flag tied into

um

the establishment really

it really is the establishment when i

when you're at a sporting event or

whatever and they play the national

anthem

uh before the game

like to me i'm witnessing like a [ __ ]

satanic ritual you know like when i'm at

a game i'm not i'm not witnessing lower

the american i'm i'm witnessing ordinary

people

engaging in a sporting event and how can

you how can you how can you i don't

think there's anything wrong with that

how can you separate that event and that

admiration away from the

i'm not trying to because i'm not trying

to create a punk rock movement of

rejects and losers and exiles i'm trying

to help kick start a movement

for normal people people who do

go to the [ __ ] football game and

listen to the anthem with their family

and have normal lives i'm not here to

[ __ ] make a movement for freaks and

punk rock freaks but you'll go to the

you'll go to the event you'll you'll

worship you know you'll stand up and

honor the american flag and then you're

going to say that china is actually good

right

why not that's right because because i'm

saying those events as they exist today

are part

so you're saying there's something about

going to a sporting event and listening

to the flag the anthem

that is essentially anti-china

yes i mean

how please explain

because materially the

jets that fly overhead are

part of

the us military's

apparatus physical apparatus

and there and it's being worshipped

though so you're talking about the jets

now not the anthem but i mean

they're they're all it's all tied

together it's not they're not separable

why how can you separate these you can't

okay

well i'll tell you what the feelings and

intentions of the people at those events

is not to worship the military yeah but

that's just what exists in their head i

don't really care what exists in there

like that okay well what i'm trying to

tell you is that you can rally the

majority of people against the uh the

deep state and the people who control

our military

without

without um

and that can be perfectly compatible

with the same thing that attracts people

to want to enjoy sporting events and and

listen to the anthem before the game

starts

but it's it's just like don't you want

communists to

actively recognize the american state

in its current form as an enemy of them

and people abroad

i mean like what do you mean by the

american

state um the deep state i would say that

i would think the american state

the deep state okay

i mean the deep state really is the

american people don't like the deep

state people like their country

when they don't like the deep state like

and yet they they use iphones that were

made and

a lot of people don't want a deep state

because they want a different way no

they don't want the deep state at all

they don't want really because i think a

lot of people wouldn't give a [ __ ] if we

wage

war as long as the deep state like

stopped doing [ __ ] publicly or you know

censoring people on twitter you know

which is not

possible what's not possible

what you just said it's not possible for

us to wage war and at the same time

maintain the democratic civil liberties

at home it's not possible

it's never been boss i mean lenin talked

about that lenin talked about how

imperialism

came at the expense of democracy

and came at the expense of the ability

to just maintain simple civil liberties

they talked about this in their

theorization of fascism fascism was the

culmination of imperialism for a reason

that's what justin trudeau is doing

right now against the truckers

with his emergency powers where's the

democracy in this

that is 100 percent

essentially tied to canadian canada's

involvement in uh american imperialism

is justin trudeau using those emergency

powers at home to curtail the civil

liberties of the canadian people yes

it's the same power that lets them wage

wars around the whole [ __ ] world

all right now i have a question in the

related kind of

the the trucker protest if these events

start happening in other countries do

you think it's communist job

it's it's like our job from america to

vocally uh support these

movements happening in other countries

being

you know

what do you mean we can just have

solidarity with them

just like we do with the canadians

are you saying should we intervene no

well i mean what if what if it what if

these events even if the original

trucker pro

protest was

organic and and

and true

how do you know that these events when

they spread into other countries aren't

co-opted by by

essentially deep state how do you know

the trucker protest right now isn't

compromised by deep state

how do you know i'm not compromised by

deep state money

i mean i guess periodically it's

impossible to know but

so what is the point of the question

i i mean

i guess

there wasn't really a

specific point i was making

from your perspective

but um

[Music]

yes do you have any other questions for

me

nope

all right i mean [ __ ] i think i uh

i think i got a better understanding of

what you're

saying but i just i just don't see

how like how how can you

you view yourself as like an individual

actor like outside of the

reality you live within you

when you

endorse like uh

their their virtuousness the american

flag like you right i mean

what do you mean

the virtuousness of the american flag

i mean when you when you're when you use

the american flag as it as synonymous

with

or compatible with communism aren't you

essentially kind of the american flag

yeah i'm going to tell you what using

the american flag means okay yeah so the

american flag represents something for

the american people

so when we use that flag what we're

doing

is we are

recognizing them in a specific way we're

saying we know what this means to you

and we understand that

and we recognize that

and

we also represent that

we represent you

do you i mean do you do you represent

like do you i mean i don't think you i

don't think the communist vision really

represents a majority of what americans

want

i think get the [ __ ] out of this country

then just leave

i don't i'm sick of people who want to

live here so badly and just say

what's the point of living here tell me

why you even live here then

why i don't you just enjoy this

defeatist position so much either stop

being a communist or leave i'm not

why do you love this idea that

everyone's bad and you're good

i don't i don't think i'm i don't think

i'm good necessarily i don't think i'm

good

i don't think i have the answers

but

i just i don't understand what the

[ __ ] point is why even be here

why even be in america

i mean i was born here i was born here

so do you think that if someone who

lives in china or russia or any other

country in the world

can have the same attitude as you

and just say oh i'm i i you know

i just personally think everyone here

is um

a lost cause and i just want to sit

around and be a bum and complain and

then be pessimistic and i'm just gonna

sit around and be a bum and that's it

you think they tolerate that any other

country in the world

you know our [ __ ] problem here in

america we have too many bums in this

[ __ ] country that's our problem we

tolerate this bum mentality far too much

in this country that's the problem

mentality here it's just indicative of

liberalism

no it's indicative of the fact

that people think this country's somehow

exceptional where you can just be a bum

and and uh you know you don't have to

actually fight for your country and your

people

and you can just you can just be in this

position where you can be like hassan

with a three million dollar mansion and

a porsche and just [ __ ] and complain

about the hogs and all this kind of [ __ ]

yeah and anti-work subreddit that's the

real problem with this [ __ ] country

honestly is that too many people are

comfortable being asleep

and you know not showering and all this

[ __ ] [ __ ] and that's really what

the problem with this country is

and

i think it's high time that communism

you're putting don't tolerate this now

you're putting blames on the individuals

because you're looking at it from no i'm

putting the blame on how communists

tolerate this defeatist bum mentality on

their own ranks when we should be the

last people to enable this [ __ ]

attitude and and and [ __ ]

you know what we should be saying to

people who say

the collapse is coming so you you want

to be opportunistic okay look if you

don't if you don't believe in the if you

don't believe look if you do not believe

in the american people you should not

have a public presence you just

privately believe in whatever the [ __ ]

you want don't come in public and start

saying [ __ ] because you're either just

gonna you're just gonna be objectively

siding with the status quo and nothing

more i'm not saying you have to be a

communist and you have to believe in the

american people i'm just saying if

you're gonna have a public presence and

call yourself a communist in this

country you better be [ __ ] about that

otherwise just

you know privately anticipate whatever

you anticipate

i believe in the people but i don't

believe in the people winning through

electoral politics and any

any the only way in which i could see

a communist party engaging in electoral

politics if they are

so strictly

principled and that they do not kowtow a

drop

to either party and and essentially

operate

within their own corner

but

i don't know is like patriotic so like

what is the does patriotic socialism

entail like smashing the democratic

republican party and then you know

having one you know one it entails a

third party

it's a it's at their end does it coexist

like do you guys see yourself

co-existing with republican and

democrats or is that just like not

really knowable what do you mean

coexisting

well i mean if you're gonna like be

successful as a patriotic socialist with

some with like an electoral platform

then

like where are the republican democrats

they are political

opponents

they're rival parties

they're going to crush the [ __ ] out of

us

like

then literally just sit on your couch

and eat hot it's because you need to eat

eat your potato chips on your couch just

sit on your couch eat potato chips and

get high what do you want me to say

i

i don't i mean

i think you should be more i think you

should

draw a larger distinction

between you and the

establishment than using

the same

or adopting an aesthetic that

this

all right

i'll create a populism

that's based on punk rock music and no

gods and no masters

no that's that sounds that sounds

dumb

why does it have to be that

so what should it be what's your

anti-establishment american flag

oh like so we should weigh just red

flags

you don't have to be like i mean

you can wave a communist flag

okay

and how is that different from larp

what is it okay what does that flag mean

to people what does that mean to to

people what does it actually mean

that flag hasn't has

what an american flag means in a

populist context is we represent the

real people and the establishment

doesn't right so that's what that means

and they already know what the american

flag is

i feel like the american flag

for a lot of people just represents like

the military

like just straight it's just straight up

the military

i think that's like

majority of americans when they think of

america and the american flag they just

invokes imagery of them

is that not you don't think that's true

and why shouldn't we want to

win people from the military

how do you how do you don't you think

you're taking the approach where you're

like gonna adopt these people in and

then you're gonna change their minds we

want military we want we have supporters

in the military we want supporters in

the military

we want to support a lot of supporters

in the military that's what we want we

want soldiers to be honest

it was in the military they would just

quit they would have to quit them how

could they hold

your views oh why so they can just sit

on their [ __ ] ass like a bum and

benefit from imperialism like you

you think a soldier is more guilty than

you are

um why because the soldier's not a

hypocrite they're actually

so so you're so tired you're better than

a soldier why would you want to quit

i mean i don't know what you mean by a

soldier is not a hypocrite why should

they have to quit the military

why should they have to quit

why so so i mean it's gonna be hard to

hold positions like i hope the ameri

that i want you know the chinese state

to defeat the american empire and then

also serve in the american military and

get deployed to taiwan okay like how do

you think that

it's

you

do you know who

brought the bolsheviks to power

no

the military the soldiers

that's what lenin said

do you know what war lenin opposed

but the war the war

with germany

he opposed it

okay

who made the stopping of that war

possible

none of these were the american military

i mean

you're right it wasn't the american

military because i'm talking about

russia right now

it was the russian soldiers

yeah okay made it possible to stop

fighting

so if you have a problem with war

against china

you're going to want

soldiers to be your allies because

they're the only ones who can stop that

[ __ ] war if it came to that point

i do not i don't think soldiers would be

capable in america of stopping a war

themselves so who would they're put

under like

rigorously what could stop a war what

could stop a [ __ ] war

like how could communists in america

stop a war how could anyone or any force

stop a war unless soldiers no longer

become willing to fight

china could beat the [ __ ] out of the

american military i guess is the only

way

okay

so does it hurt for china to have allies

in the military

i mean i would assume the united states

of america would [ __ ] kill those

people if they found out but

i mean it would help china

like you're saying it would help if they

have like

supporters in the military that support

their country

or do you mean like spies

can you please tell me what you are

saying

i don't i don't remember honestly

too many points

we were out we were we talked about like

five things in the last three minutes

are you high

no not right now i'm just tired

but i mean

i mean

i my larger point still stands that

you're like engaging in the mark the

free marketplace of ideas

like like you're going to have soldiers

in the u.s military that idealistically

agree with you but they're going to be

in the united states military and you're

going to they've already been through

like rigorous indoctrination programs so

i don't know how you're gonna have huge

numbers but you're relating this to past

historical events in china i mean uh in

russia and the ussr at the time but

i don't

i don't see how are you suggesting that

american soldiers would actually help

stop a war or deployment to taiwan

how does that actually how does how do

american individual soldiers with their

ideological convictions stop a huge

real apparatus

by not fighting

so i mean you got to have a [ __ ] you got

to have win a majority of the military

well that's what you try to do

i just don't think that's possible in

the united states

but

but

it's still good to have supporters in

the [ __ ] military

like how do you get those supporters

though like

the same what do you mean the same way

you get any other supporters

you think it's impossible to convince

soldiers to be against imperialism

i think it is impossible where did most

of the donations for ron paul come from

ron paul's

not a communist he says anti-imperialist

things yeah that's all that matters here

so where does where was a huge portion

of ron paul's support coming from

i'm assuming it's the military right

okay back in 2016 where was the most

amount of donations coming from for

bernie sanders

who was also against the wars at that

time

was it the military it was

so the military seems to be

the thank you atari the military is

inherently disposed to populism it

always has been

because they see on the ground

the difference between

what

they're ordered to do and what actually

happens they see on the ground the lies

and the hypocrisy and they don't buy

into the [ __ ] of the establishment

because they're the ones on the ground

dealing with reality once they see the

horse so you're talking about soldiers

who have seen the [ __ ] horror of what

no no even if they've never seen a day

of combat people in the military can see

the operational difference between what

the establishment tells the public and

how [ __ ] actually works

which makes them cynical toward the

establishment and more disposed to

populism

i don't bernie do you do you think

bernie was really an anti-imperialist

force in 2016 he was signaling against

war yeah he was

but he didn't mention the sea like the

cia he doesn't talk about disbanding the

cia or any

no real threats

just ended up being totally

milk toast

so it's like

and that's a long shot that's a lot he

doesn't he doesn't talk about he does he

does

he doesn't talk he doesn't talk about

giving me head either

okay

and

i'm not sure

yeah

that's the point i'm really not sure i'm

really not sure what you're trying to

get

at like

you're not sure i'm what i'm trying to

get at him no i'm not because the whole

point was that the military

can support so you're saying what if he

was against the cia then he wouldn't

have gotten the support he did from the

military well ron paul was against the

cia and you know a bunch of people from

the military still supported ron paul so

what is your point

ron paul was also is also

pro establishment in many ways no he's

not he fought he's against the fed he's

against the banks the corporations and

the awards

he's a liberal who believes in running

as a republican that's a republican

ticket and he believes in getting enough

republicans into the senate and into the

and into the house of representatives

where we're going to vote in against

anti-imperialism right ron paul is just

a liberal i don't

like because it's like he can say those

things idealistically

america's bad we should end the fed uh

the military industrial complex is evil

but then you also do you are listening

all you're doing is

established by it by those entities all

you are doing is critiquing ron paul

from a strategic perspective

you are saying nothing else you're

saying his strategy doesn't work all

operates reflects the fact that at the

end of the day he's still

liberal and

no everyone

if ron paul is a liberal to you

everyone's a liberal

ron paul is absolutely liberal yeah

believes in the american system believes

in the american but if you ask most

americans they're not going to say he's

a liberal

no because americans don't understand

what liberalism really is you're smarter

than everyone words have no meaning only

you give them meaning harder it's that

material reality happened to lead me to

to this conclusion not under my own will

i i arrived at my marxist line

not because i'm smarter than anyone

i figured it out or i have a big brain

it literally happened involuntarily i

became a marxist leninist involuntarily

it was not my

so um i don't think that can we get to

the point

the point is that like the

the fact that you don't recognize ron

paul as a liberal and i'm saying he is a

liberal because the way in which he

engages with with the reality okay but

of course but to most people most people

to most people to most people including

those soldiers he was different from

liberals

say that again

to the soldiers who are relevant in

question he was different to liberals he

represented anti-war anti-establishment

anti-cia views that's what he

represented to them if his strategy

doesn't ultimately realize that

that is immaterial to the [ __ ] point

at hand

why is it immaterial a strategy because

it doesn't say anything about what he

represents to the soldiers and why they

supported him they didn't support him

because he had a failed strategy they

supported him because they liked the

[ __ ] he was saying

but so

what's what's your point there though

like

my point is that back to the original

[ __ ] point

in no way does the indoctrination or

whatever the [ __ ] you're talking about

of soldiers in the military make them

non-disposed

to populistic and anti-war views

okay yeah i think i would agree with

that

well that's what we were arguing about

on a mass scale in a way that would

actually affect any 60 of veterans are

against war with russia

that sounds like a mass scale to me

what's the i wonder what the numbers are

for like people currently

you're not going to get accurate numbers

because those are institutionalized not

going to tell you what they really think

it is true that like i do know

i have met veterans that that are

fervently anti-war but

what i see is like all this anti-war

fervor still regardless of whether those

soldiers are you know when you know they

see ron paul as a liberal like or if

they just like the ideas that he

how does that

lead to change like how does that lead

to change electorally like because you

say political will what you are the one

who said

that most americans think of the

military when they think of the flag

i think the essence behind it yeah okay

well that's why we went down this

dialogue tree of soldiers

soldiers could definitely be

open to being communist but i would

still say in the

a majority of soldiers are not gonna be

in the image of a communist like they're

gonna be reflecting the reality that

you know veterans maybe because

especially veterans who saw combat i

would

you know definitely but

i don't i don't disagree with the

strategy of appealing to

forces you know

soldiers that are in the military but

it's like are you trying you're trying

to build like a mass movement of

americans that is

premised on all the idealization of all

the same symbols same cultural icons

same attitude towards

the founding of the country and then

it's just going to be communist or

socialist

like it's like each each in each thing

like

indicates

like that it doesn't really feel anti

like to me the american flag is just

throw a sat i mean i know it's my own

perspective and i see how someone could

see it as antsy establishment

i'm gonna explain to you the problem

you're having right now is that you're a

guy

who just reacts to things after they

happen and doesn't understand how things

actually work

so listen after let's say there is a

communist movement and it's a patriotic

movement whatever

you're gonna sit here in vc with someone

for like four hours and be like well i

get how that is and i i don't understand

how this and you're like you're gonna

take for granted

that movement having already come to be

without knowing anything about how it

happened because all you like to do is

talk about things

that are within your reach

because you ultimately have the ideology

of a couch potato you just want the

remote and the potato chips and the

controller to all but be in your reach

while you sit on the couch and that is

your entire ideology it's literally the

eye it's literally the ideology of a

couch potato that's your whole [ __ ]

stick here

i said i think it's ridiculous like

frame it like that because it's like you

you're you're like so bought into that

this supposed that opposing

viewpoints is like just being a potato

just like feels ridiculous doesn't it

no it feels very accurate

it feels very very accurate actually i

really feel this is on the nail

i don't understand what you are even

trying to say even after this whole time

i don't even know

what you're actually trying to say i

don't know what the point is though i

don't know what the actual point is i

don't it's well i think the overall

point is that like your

tendency to readily accept like these

standpoints of

the

constitution

you know gives us rights and protects us

and

the you know the revolution was a

rebellion against the crown it's like to

me it seems like you're reframing

history through like a lens in which you

wish was coming

or like not wish was communist or that a

lens in which you can then

try to grow your movement by

creating this ideology in which the

essence of america was actually

communists at its founding or

yeah that's what communists say about

all human history which is why marx said

communism is the riddle of history

solved

but is the like

i mean uh

brought it up once before but like how

is the

means by which the 13 colonies set up

how is that

not part of simply western individuals

that existed

in its original home

communism came from the west how is it

not part of western individualism

i mean yeah the theory came from the

west but

why does that

why would that make it western

why would the same thing but for yours

why does the constitution reflect

western individualism

in a way that makes communism impossible

yes

i think the way in which class relations

have been established in this country

is a product of

the nature in which

the country was established and

you're reflecting back

back upon the history of which the

country established

and reinterpreting it as being part of

human fundamental nature which is

socialism i agree that like collective

essence

of humanity is fundamentally socialist

default

is social

but

how can you say that that since the

default of humanity how is the american

revolution default

how does that represent

or closer to

what

you're saying interesting that the

american revolution and the

establishment are you on shrooms lsd

um

no

what are you actually asking me right

now what are you actually asking me

i'm asking you

[ __ ] i don't even remember what i was

saying i i was asking you if uh

like how can you reframe

the american revolution as

as somewhat of a socialist phenomenon or

the establishment of america as a

socialist phenomenon oh my god it's just

like a pointless confusion that if you

used your common sense would not be a

problem why is this a

problem for what is it a problem

communism

okay let me okay i have to explain to

you like the philosophy of dialectical

time is that what you want do i have to

explain to you the philosophy of

dialectical time about how the essence

of what something is actually arrives

from the future and isn't buried in the

past and the archaeo modernism of how

for example the future actually realizes

the essence of things in the past these

are all convoluted philosophical

[ __ ] things

that aren't needed for people to [ __ ]

understand or make sense of it when the

soviets

talked about ivan the terrible or

alexander nevsky or the historical

heroes of russian civilization that were

not explicitly communist i mean regular

people understood it and it wasn't a

problem you seem to think that normal

people give a [ __ ] about philosophy and

they don't they care about what makes

sense

now you should really be asking me is

how could it make sense that you could

reinterpret american history through a

communist lens well it makes perfect

sense it's been done before there's no

reason it wouldn't [ __ ] make sense

you don't need to talk about philosophy

to answer that [ __ ] question

i mean

colonial expansion

america's an undefined thing it's not

set in stone or defined okay and if

communists are the best equipped

to represent the american people and

make sense of their historical

experiences and their tradition through

scientific socialism that's something

they would prove in reality that they

would succeed the history and destiny of

america thereby revealing the essence of

what america always was the whole time i

mean you're making it seem like the

founding of america is something

finished and it's not it's one chapter

in a larger history that is never fully

finished in some kind of idea the whole

the real question is why would

communists be the best

succeed

and seize hegemony over this

and i will tell you the answer lies in

scientific socialism

being

a more correct literally correct way of

relating to the world and reality

like you've put out like a

a list of policy quote-unquote policy

changes

is that um is that the basis of which

like the patriotic socialist movement is

like is the patriotic socialist movement

like uh these are our policy changes

no that's no it's not it's literally as

it's

it's literally as simple it's literally

as [ __ ] simple as saying

i'm a socialist and my ground zero my

ground from which i begin is not a blank

slate or an ideal to conform reality to

but the actual reality i live in which

is a country specifically the american

country and that i want

to serve what's in the best interests of

the american people and that is how i

want my socialism to be framed

and i don't want social to be framed in

terms of an alien foreign ideology that

comes at the expense of people's real

lives it's like that [ __ ] simple

and i don't know why it's being

complicated so much

you mean you don't know why like people

on twitter and [ __ ] like take you or

people onto i don't know where the

problem is coming from i don't know what

the problem is here

i don't [ __ ] about it i don't

i just don't

necessarily like uh fully believe in

specific future but i you know i i don't

think it's like uh

i don't think it's like a

evil phenomenon or something all right

well you can have your reddit socialism

and good luck

i do not have reddit

yes you do

no i do

you you want to have a reddit debate

socialism where you just type on reddit

you're the type that wants to type

like 10 000 paragraphs on reddit and

that's just what you want to do you just

want to type paragraphs on reddit

absolutely

i don't do that though so you can say

that but it's like you just want to

pontificate and type reddit's right type

paragraphs on reddit

but it's like i don't do that so when

you tell me that it's like i'm like what

the [ __ ] where the [ __ ] is he getting

this from you know so where do you type

your paragraphs i don't type paragraph

i don't

type or argue like in paragraphs with

people

like you i think you have this concocted

idea of your haters and that's you're

pretty you are

and that's like it's like

you shouldn't do this really you're like

imagining me in the vein of your haters

i just don't know where the problem's

coming from

i mean if you i think the problem for

most people is coming from

it's sort of

i don't say like american-centric but

it's like

yeah

you're not gonna agree

i just don't i don't see like the

i do see like i don't

agree necessarily and

you can explain it further if you want

but that the founding of america isn't

over

like don't you think there's like clear

distinctions between like

previous states of society

post

colonialism or not in terms of what they

mean no i think meaning is never

finished it's always open

i guess that's it you're saying like the

media

with patriotic socialism the meaning of

the american flag is

different from what it is prior

or do you think it already like

i just don't see how it

you differentiate on a mass scale but i

feel like we're going in circles but

i'm actually not saying it's different

i'm saying

you've taken that meaning for granted

what do you mean like i've interpreted

it

narrowly or what

like what do you mean i took it for

granted

i don't understand

you there can i be honest with

you when i talk to you it's a lot like

how you go to a hookah bar

and there's a guy who's microproducing

on shrooms

and he starts a conversation with you

and you don't know where it's going and

you don't know what he's trying to say

well i mean

it just it's just he he talks so long

and you keep trying to say okay what is

the point

and it's almost like he's talking about

nothing

and just

for just nothing at all

i mean the reason why is because i see

like the reason why i bring up so many

different things is because it's not

like

it's like the reason why i have the view

i do have on patriotic socialism is

because of an aggregate of many

different individual things that when

put together

form

somewhat of a

i don't know

unsuccess like i don't want to say

unsuccessful because you're right in the

fact that like infrared does exist and

patriotic socialism does exist but

uh

i just

yeah i don't really

but i don't i don't when i say i don't

really believe that patriotic socialist

future has like a strong

will have a strong grip doesn't mean

that

i don't think you should be trying

but

i just don't i think it's inevitable

that when you adopt this framing of

american history inside of america

talking to americans they're not gonna

vote

[Music]

or energy even directed against

the forces of imperial like how like

is this patriotic socialism i guess

not it's not trying to voluntarily

end

imperialism through electoralism i just

don't i don't see like what the future

of patriotic socialism is but i guess it

can just

play out

however it does

hit what are you asking

like how does patriotic future have this

patriotic socialism actually implement

quote-unquote its agenda like through

what mechanisms attack

through the us government

through the party

through the party

so it could be so it could be

independent of the u.s government

we don't know we just want a communist

party is that so much to ask to have our

own communist party

why does it why does it have to be this

hard to have our own communist party

[Music]

i mean

there is a kind there is a comment

that's it there you go there is and

that's what we're fighting for

but isn't that communist party that

currently exists in america kind of

kneecapped and says ridiculous [ __ ] all

the time yeah and that's why we're

sending our people there because we want

to take it over

[Music]

okay

[Music]

so then i mean is the the future of cpu

usa like cpusa 2036 like

what is that

is that just when you take over the

communist party and then

lead like a

mass movement

yup

[Music]

all right

[Music]

do you see here's here's the question

though

[Music]

do you ex would you exclude people

from the communist party who are who who

do not like the american flag but are

still marxist

yes

so if you're a marxist leninist and you

support china and you hate the deep

state and you want to

put hillary clinton in prison you

[ __ ] hate the elite and

you think both parties are just a

[ __ ]

pr

mechanism for deep state

but you hate the american flag because

you notice that the bombs that are

dropped in syria have the american flag

on them

i'm not saying you have to or that's the

correct position abstractly but i'm just

saying let's say that's the reasoning

why let's see if you're a wrecker you

should not be allowed in the party 1000

no matter what so if you [ __ ] hate

the american flag yep if you raise

problems about that [ __ ] flag you

should not be allowed

there are a lot of comments in history

well um

what was the black panthers party stance

on the flag did they love the flag

they weren't part of the communist party

they created their own party that was

only for black people

yeah and they didn't like the flag

because they were a black exclusively

black party why would they care about

the [ __ ] flag they wanted to make

their own nation

i just don't see how like how could you

in like

if there are a group of people who have

been wronged by the us state

and they hate the american flag how

why the [ __ ] they then they have two

options

and they have two options

either fight to be separatists

and form their own state create their

own party to advocate independently for

their own interests or work within the

american state

and thereby have to tolerate the [ __ ]

flag if you want to work within the

american state you win the majority

which means you respect the [ __ ] flag

if you don't want to go down that

approach

then you can fight for

separatism or some [ __ ]

and i'm fine with that i'm fine with

that

you're gonna just disqualify like a lot

of [ __ ] like people yeah i am i am i

am going to disqualify every [ __ ]

person who wants to [ __ ] on this country

while this country feeds them

go form your own country

this country feed them from your own

country

because it's not really just this

country that feeds the americans

i don't i don't care i'm sick of people

who want to just be here and [ __ ] on

this [ __ ] country

while

what then stop trying to play listen if

you want to create

how could you how could you how could

you have this position when you know

that america [ __ ] bombs the [ __ ] out

of other country

like how the [ __ ] can you because we are

still our own [ __ ] country

but why are you disqualifying communists

who [ __ ]

because they're bums because they're

[ __ ] bums that's why they're [ __ ]

bums and i'm sick of communists being

the party of bums

cause i'm against bums i'm against

brooklyn [ __ ] professional

managerials in their [ __ ] lofty of

[ __ ] apartments sitting on their

[ __ ] ass on their [ __ ] pillows

bitching and whining and saying

i don't want bombs i'm sick of the bums

they'll hang an american flag up for

sure

no they won't the [ __ ] brooklyn

professional managerials were saying

i'm against this country then [ __ ]

leave then leave

a lot of them love them here

like a lot of them are fervent 99

hate america 900 pretend to hate america

yeah listen we're not gonna have a

[ __ ] party

where people

are trying to

literally

go ahead go ahead

well you're trying to win the majority

of people

and you want to work within the the

system of this country within the state

of this country and somehow rule over

the majority of people

while [ __ ] over those [ __ ] people

and telling them hey [ __ ] you [ __ ] your

flag and we're going to be the tyrants

of your lives

no it's not going to [ __ ] happen

why is the flag represent those you were

talking about how the

meaning of the flag is continuing or

changing it can change right like the

meanings someone how someone interprets

the flag

can be different from person to person

right

no i think

no

just know i don't care about exceptions

i don't care about exceptions

generalizations are correct exceptions

mean nothing

i don't care about individual exceptions

i am i care about reality i don't care

if there's a redditor who has an opinion

and likes to

take lsd and talk about [ __ ] for five

hours and to no avail i don't care about

those exceptions it doesn't matter

politically

[Music]

i don't think you know what you're

looking for here or what exactly it is

you want

no i mean i i do know it seriously

sounds like

it's an aggregate of multiple different

things in which i think culminate it

really sounds like you are micro dosing

on shrooms

to be completely honest

i mean

the the real reason why is probably

because i'm on a live stream i haven't

been on a live stream really really long

so my mind is running like a lot

so i'm thinking about [ __ ]

that's the actual reason

[Music]

but you know i'll come when it comes to

like something simple like

let's say your car was stuck in the snow

and

you are just trying to convince someone

to help you get the car out of the

[ __ ] snow

why don't you give why what like why

doesn't why don't you give him as much

of a hard time as you give me right i'm

trying to do something very simple you

give me a really hard time

when it comes to something simple like

let's say someone's car is suck stuff

okay someone's car is stuck in the snow

they say hey

can you help me and you say okay listen

i'm i'm gonna stay here and we're gonna

talk about it and you sit for five hours

talking about the quantum mechanics

involved in getting the car out of the

snow

why

either get it out of the snow or don't

it's not actually that complicated

but what does this have to do with what

we were talking about

because it's like i'm doing something

very simple social spatialism very

simple

and you're just over you're needlessly

overly complicating it for no reason

[Music]

i just say what like why do you have

this like uh you have to you know you

can't be against the american flag like

why why don't you just

allow both

like why is the why is that the signify

for what constitutes like

someone who's you know capable of

joining patreon

[Music]

because if you're gonna whine about the

flag it probably means you're a [ __ ]

wrecker

who's just

where it means you recognize that the

american state is a [ __ ] farce and

murders people and that's what's

associated with it then you can go form

a punk rock band and leave the party

alone like you're just engaging then

form a punk rock band

culture

no i'm not i i i i don't i don't it has

no political meaning that the america

america's a farce okay then i i don't

know what to tell you go form a punk

rock band

that's literally culture liberal culture

abortion

that's what it means

[Music]

like funk rock man

okay i'm gonna explain to you a

communist party

is supposed to be

made up of sober-minded professionals

who serve the people fight for the

people be champions of the people in a

sober very pragmatic sober

down to earth common sense kind of way

work for the people

it is not a medium to vent your moral

indignations and your moral

disappointments

and ideals it is a very simple

professional kind of thing okay so when

you have people come

and raise problems with the [ __ ]

america's are far so i we did we don't

have time to deal with

the angst of teenagers please understand

and

respect what a communist party is

supposed to do

it's not so it's not an outlet for

teenage angst it's not

so

every communist who wanted to burn the

american flag

exhibiting teenager

absolutely

[Music]

i think that's like solely an american

perspective i don't think that's it no i

think if you burn the american flag and

you live in this country

it's probably because you're a teenager

with teenage angst

[Music]

you think there's a difference between

when you live in

i don't care about people who are

disappointed in the ideal of america i

don't

i don't take those people seriously i

think they're children

i care about people who care about the

material reality of america not ideals i

don't care about ideals

i care about people who want to fight

for people who live in that breed in

this [ __ ] country and fight for the

working class of this country that's

what a communist cares about it's not

about

the farce of this or that i don't that

means nothing at all it's absolutely

immaterial can you eat a farce

can you eat one

like are you asking if arsenal's

material can you eat it can you eat a

forest can you

what can you do with a farce what is

that

[Music]

okay that's where you that's where you

have a problem it means nothing it is

absolutely completely meaningless

why are they why do you think burning

the americans means that they're upset

that the idea of america is first rather

than them just recognizing them

[Music]

to them

because you said it's because they

recognize america's a farce

[Music]

okay well i didn't i didn't mean because

of that idea specifically i meant

because they recognized

you know is the imperialist

you know

nation in no way does recognizing

imperialism

justify burning the [ __ ] american

flag when you live in this country this

country feeds you houses you clothes you

it builds you it everything in this

country made by the working class for

you

when you [ __ ] having a problem with

your electricity or your gas you call

the working class to come and fix your

[ __ ] house the truckers of this

country shift good give you your goods

ship these goods

and you live in this country and then

you disrespect everyone by burning the

flag because of imperialism

what does that have to do with the

people then live in a different country

but why why is it it's like you narrow

it down to one thing it's like the

american flag represents

like you're mentioning oh the people who

come and

fix your car

what about the police who will come and

beat the [ __ ] out of it

so there's a problem with this country

are you going to be positive and and

want to fix the country or help the

country

so why are you bitching about it then

leave if you don't like how the police

treat you i if you don't like how the

police treat you in this country then

you fight for a better country or you

get the [ __ ] out

[Music]

what you don't do is sit around and

wreck the party

stay away from the party the party's

here to help the country the party's not

here to [ __ ] on the country because the

country disappointed you it's here to

help the country and help the people

that's what the parties are for we don't

want people we're just gonna sit around

and [ __ ] and whine and wreck we don't

[Music]

see it is like you don't want people who

[ __ ] in my number these are all things

that are associated with burning the

america like why is it even i'm not i

didn't even talk about burning the

american fire i was just saying

if you're if you do not

you know

agree agree with displaying it or

anything like that

just it's like you're protecting

[Music]

like the

the essence of the

communist party is that like the

american communist party

you think like why does burning the flag

pose an actual issue

because it's stupid and edgy and

reflects an adolescent's mentality

okay what about just like not what about

hating the american flag but not being

like a weirdo

[Music]

not just i don't want to say hating it

like you're a psycho but what about just

like not playing it or not being fun

is that you can't well the party's gonna

fly it

so are you gonna make a problem out of

that are you gonna keep it to yourself

i mean if you if the if the patriotic

socialism

was actually pro-china and

anti-establishment and

going somewhere and flew the american

flag

if it was actually working then i would

keep it to myself

so there you go every time there's going

to be a problem you're going to say the

reason is because the flag or the flag

is a cruise a demonic

no it's not no then yeah get the [ __ ]

out of the

i don't we don't need that

we don't need ankle biters

it just see like it just seems so odd

that you i mean it seems so odd that you

can recognize how [ __ ] horrible

the only thing that the only way it

could make sense is if you're purely

coming from the point of if you live in

this country and you're some sort of

anarchist

because because i'll tell you why

because in my heart i have already

destroyed the world in my heart the

whole universe has been destroyed in my

heart i'm over it i'm over the

apocalypse i don't [ __ ] care anymore

i'm over it now i live in reality and i

care about the real world all of that

moral [ __ ] i don't care about that

world you think you're living in that

world is already gone in my heart so i'm

concerned with reality now i live in

reality i don't care

i don't care i just don't care about

how morally

inconsistent or immoral america is or

how wrong its ideals are i care about

actual material reality that's what i

care about

how are those like how are those things

separate

[Music]

just think of me as a cynical kgb agent

can you just think of me as that because

it's like that simple

your cynical kgb

trying to bring communism

i don't have the naiveties you have it's

just that simple

some of the [ __ ] you say makes sense to

me and then

this [ __ ] with

you know having this staunch view on the

american

it's flag about like the flag

of the flag itself

the actual practice

including the people who don't

[Music]

that's where my that's that's really

where i think it's like that's where

it's revealing that's like where my all

my criticisms have had a i've been hey

this is the this is our country

this is the flag of our country

grow up

or stay in peter pan forever

just stay away from the party

we live in the real world this is our

flag of our country

represents our people

the country we live in we are living in

it

[Music]

just

sober up

when we're anti-imperialist by the way

we mean it

you know when we say we're

anti-imperials we actually mean it which

means that we actually do believe it's

realistic

to stop the wars and fight against

imperialism it's not like an ideal

utopia we have we actually are serious

professional business-like people

who are saying

yes end the wars yes fight the deep

state yes

um institute the hamilton

system of alexander hamilton yes build

up the productive forces these are all

very realistic things

we're proposing we're not doing it from

a perspective of

redeeming childhood fantasies or uh

imposing utopias or ideals this is

something we actually take seriously in

a business-like way

how do you in a business-like way

[Music]

you seriously make the case to the

american people

that

the wars

not only go against their interests

but are being created by people

who are directly responsible for their

remiseration which is literally true you

tell the truth

and they already know that by the way

they're already saying it even without

our intervention

american imperialism

has a ruling the ruling class of

american imperialism is not the people

so do you just like uh

do you just like put all the

navy [ __ ] warships and into the museums

like do you still operate that's what

what do you mean that's like five

million years uh steps away

hypothetically if we got to power what

would we do with all these surplus

military weapons we probably wouldn't

need

probably recycle them

probably like um

you know we'd probably beat the swords

into plowshares and and make something

productive out of them i don't [ __ ]

know probably sell them or do something

yeah i'm saying it's a pretty big pretty

big issue considering that no it's not

yes a lot of the american economy is not

only on investing in new military

equipment but it's also about

maintaining and we'd make an economy

that's based in

investing in infrastructure like china

does instead of the [ __ ] military

yeah good luck

okay well i don't see what's so

unrealistic about it when a country of

1.4 billion people already showed how it

can be done

because you're going up with people

against people with

[ __ ] and and i'm and i'm and we're

taking them on and we're not blinch

we're not flinching

what

like if you're an actor if you're an

actual threat to that established order

they're just they're gonna [ __ ] kill

you

okay then i'll be a martyr

well i'm not saying you need to be a

murderer i need you i mean then then i'm

taking that risk i'm taking that risk

i'm taking that risk

okay i'm taking that risk

you would need that

i don't care i'm taking the risk

anything happens to me happens to me i'm

in a very good mental state

i have never had bad thoughts mentally

so if they do some [ __ ] to me

uh

that's something i'm risking

if you're communist then you have to

have

soldiers who are willing to fight for

you no you don't no you [ __ ] don't

know you [ __ ] don't because 100 no

you don't

100

no you don't if the government

stop [ __ ] interrupting me and stop

wasting my time you don't need [ __ ]

soldiers because we still are a country

of laws and if the government just

decides to kill every communist

arbitrarily guess what that will have

legal ramifications for our state

what

you think they're gonna have legal ram

yes he will it'll have random there have

to be a clue of some kind the

constitution would have to be formally

suspended and it would have all sorts of

ramifications even if it would be a

crisis of legitimacy yes

[Music]

it's like what makes you think at this

point in reality that these forces will

be bound by these by the constitution

i just don't think you understand how

the world works it's just that simple

ah thanks man it's really

[Music]

i'm saying is that like you really want

to be a threat to these things and you

number one you're gonna have to have

people who are willing to fight for you

and defend

for

it's [ __ ] enough

[Music]

it's honestly enough okay

[Music]

we're out [ __ ] long man i'm sorry i

just

it would never end

there's always a new [ __ ] dialogue

tree

there's always a new [ __ ] dialogue

tree