Haz vs Xena | InfraredShow Debate
2021-10-22
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what up dumb [Β __Β ]
unmute
what do you want
trans issues why
um
because that's what i usually talk about
on here um i joined the server okay i do
i want that's what i talk about
i mean that's what i talk about okay
yeah um i joined the server because i
saw
i think i saw a video against um
it was you and perspective philosophy
um
and then
i watched that debate and then i watched
some other ones um and it seems like you
kind of have this like
um
the kind of aesthetic of like a alpha
bro male that's trying like way too hard
it's a little cringy um but then i kind
of went to the community and i mainly
disagree with the community i'm not sure
if you
agree with their takes um but
essentially
i think that
we should
allow children
to receive hormone blockers
um and if like doctors agree we should
probably allow them to
get um
yeah i i
i just don't know
yeah i just don't agree with that it's
okay so what do you not agree with
specifically
i i don't think someone can make a
decision like that for a child
do you think we can make any medical
decisions for children
uh that concern their actual like saving
their lives and their medical health but
not in terms of their sexuality i don't
i don't think they wouldn't be in terms
of their life i don't believe well it
wouldn't be well it wouldn't be in terms
of their sexuality it would be in terms
of their mental health
right but it's it's in the name of their
mental health i get that but for
purposes of uh determining their
sexuality i just don't think it's not
determining sorry not determining their
sexuality but like uh
medically altering them in a way that
pertains to to their you know sexuality
so to me i just mean their gender
yeah sure because it's also not
determining that either
well gender and sexuality are related
right
i
i don't think they're interchangeable or
synonymous
i mean maybe they're related but i don't
know how that can they're not synonymous
in the sentence so that's why i was
getting confused um but by the way like
hormones like hormone blockers or just
regular like hrt
um this isn't like trying to change your
gender um this is if the kid is already
expressing um some type of um usually
like gender dysphoria like hate for
their body
um they go to like a therapist and then
that therapist signs off so they go to
an endocrinologist that endocrinologist
you're saying children are expressing
their faith hatred for their body
yeah yeah like uh how old are these
children
um sometimes they're seven sometimes
they're they're usually like teenage
range like uh 13 14 but um specific yeah
i i don't know
which if you're seven years old
i'll give you an example of this sure so
when i was six years old
six five five to seven right
um
i uh
was crying a lot
and i was crying because i wanted to be
16 years old i'm not making this up i
wanted to be like 18 and the reason was
because i was watching drake and josh in
those shows
and i was like i i want to be like older
i want to live the life i'm sick of
being a kid i don't want to be a kid
anymore i'm not it sounds might sound
funny i'm not even lying about this and
i would cry to my mom and i'd be like i
want to be 17 i'm 17.
and
i'm not saying that's that's like an
analogy to trans people
who as adults
uh express this
views about uh that they have gender
dysphoria but
i'm just saying like as a kid people
kids
express all range of emotions yes
it's not enough to like
so if these emotions are consisting of
like
uh
like a large
um
feeling of like hatred towards your body
in gendered senses not in like oh i'm
fat oh i'm like this type of thing it's
usually in like oh um i am
like i'm a guy i look like a guy i'm
going to grow up to have huge muscles
i'm going to have like a lot of facial
hair and that makes me really disgusting
i've known people
i've known like people who grew up
and they would tell women who would tell
me for example that they grew up always
can thinking of themselves like as a boy
for example right and they i mean yeah
yeah i've kind of grown up the same way
like i'm a tomboy but i've never had a
feeling of like oh i really want to be a
guy um and i'm like close
when you can express something as a
child but then when you're an adult you
change your mind right and to me sure
that's why we that's why we give like um
children at like really young ages um
like to what like if it's if it's like
12 or like 14 or these young ages we
usually give them like hormone blockers
um because those are pretty reversible
i i don't know about if how are they
reversible i don't
um they kind of just like haul puberty
so imagine if you're like um your body
and how i i don't think like puberty or
sexual development or those kinds of
things are well known enough to be able
to come to the conclusion that you know
this is not going to be a life
alternative
they've been researched for like
over i don't know 25 they have not been
well researched actually this
this i mean
do you have any facts about this
i
all i can say is it's not well
researched like i don't know what you
mean
okay i mean so like you're saying it's
not well researched yeah i mean do you
have
um
do you have a study that says it's not
well researched no there's no no no what
i'm saying is do you have like the
current research and you can like point
out how it's not well researched you
don't have to like i don't have enough
money but i i know that i know that not
enough is known oh you know about it
that's fine so how um it's okay if you
just know it so what's specifically not
well researched about it
okay the way the human body works
specifically how sexuality works how
puberty works and how sexual development
works is not well known
um
i mean in general it's not
any type of like endocrine clinics or
anything or
that's not relevant it's not known for
example why puberty happens at the time
it's not it's not known it's not known
for example
what the factors that go into specific
uh developmental trajectories
for uh you know a given person and their
body and their development it's not even
known for example and this is what i
know too it's not even known like what
height you're gonna your puberty is
going to take you to actually it's not
yeah sure yeah these these are all
right now it's it's not known uh you
know if you're gonna be able to grow a
beard it's not grown like you can you
can look at your parents and roughly
guess and people say oh that means it's
genetic but they haven't found the genes
and actually haven't pinpoint the actual
mechanism by which it actually happened
so these yeah
okay so you can not know how it actually
happens but you can know that it does
happen so like i don't know i'm i'm
personally not like a mechanics person i
don't really know how a sync works but
like from me using a lot of empirical
evidence when i like turned the cold
water on the sink cold water comes out
so i'm guessing if i push the cold water
the cold water comes out unless the sink
is broken or whatever so like um like we
can we can study something even if we
don't know how it works
yeah i have a quote that some random
person in my chat said little is known
about the long-term side effects of
hormonal puberty blockers in children
with gender dysphoria although the
gender identity development service
advises this is a physically reversible
treatment if stopped it is not known
what psychological effects may be it
also not known whether hormone blockers
affect the development of the teenage
brain or children's bones side effects
may also include hot flushes fatigue and
mood uh alterations and i'm gonna tell
you yeah sure so these are so yeah i've
never claimed that um
that there isn't like any types of side
effects to them i never
well
they're they're not what i spend this is
the national health system
what i said okay so what i said was that
the reversible which i'm pretty sure you
said in that quote no it's not what it
said it said that the
gender identity development service and
i'm not sure their bias actually
advises this is a physically reversible
treatment they've stopped and so they're
saying going off of their word i don't
know i don't know how reliable their
word is okay well well i don't know how
reliable your quote is but if you are
relying on it it comes from the national
health service of the united kingdom so
that sounds pretty
okay well look so i said that it was
reversible if we don't know any um if we
don't know i i really don't believe it's
reversible i don't believe it's
reversible how do you why do you not
believe that is it just because i don't
buy it i don't i don't buy that for
example at such a crucial moment of a
child's development you can just take
hormone blockers and that's not going to
have implications for your long-term
development if you cut them off and
reverse them i know how such small
things influence such development
um i mean there's probably not been as
much testing as if the person like
um goes off of hormones or not if there
hasn't been enough testing then don't
push it off
can i
finish so what i was saying is i don't
think there's been a lot of testing um
where they
where someone has gone on pd blockers
and then gone off of puberty blockers
for a long period of time i don't think
there's been a lot of those things
because not a lot of people like
de-transition out of the amount of trans
people that already exist well so having
that amount of study would be or having
that amount of research might be hard
because i think a lot of people
um stay on it and the people who do stay
on it seems like it's working pretty
well for them so i think we should
continue providing the medication yeah
because that's why we figured out if
anything goes wrong if anything does go
wrong maybe we can revoke it um but from
what i've seen so far it doesn't seem
like there's any type of like big
negative effects from it
yeah but you just said that not like
there hasn't been a good amount of
studies uh for that specific
circumstance which means you don't know
enough to know whether
uh
you can you should be able to push this
on kids it's like if they want to
reverse it you're not pushing it on kids
it's a permanent decision you're making
for that's not a permanent decision
also like you're not pushing it on kids
so usually in these um appointments when
you're trying to get like puberty
blockers what happens is that
um the they usually have like a
therapist session refer them to an
endocrinologist so they have like um an
endocrinologist is like a hormone person
i don't know if you okay yeah look i
it look it's a it's a nice sounding name
but at the end of the day these people
don't know
um you don't think they're in their
child's mental health no i i don't i
really don't
absolutely not you don't think people
who study in their fields might know a
bit about those fields no i don't i
don't think they know anything about
them
um
i
okay well how do you
well here's why because just because
you're putting a name on it and you're
creating a profession and paying people
okay no no you're not putting a name on
your profession you're training um for
around like eight yeah well you just
interrupted me so you didn't actually
hear what i was saying whatsoever so
okay if your human changes just because
you call it something and then there's a
profession centered around uh pretending
like you know things and finding
patterns and you know doing all this
kind of stuff doesn't actually mean you
know the object you're pretending to
know in actual reality right you're an
endocrinologist uh there were people who
were um phrenologists back in the back
in the day right where they were
measuring uh or looking at people's
skulls and seeing how that
influences or determines their
personality so just like just because
you have a profession and people are all
they're working on and that's what they
do for a living doesn't mean they know
the [Β __Β ] mysteries of childhood
development and childhood psychology and
childhood mental health and things that
people haven't even been able to master
for like thousands of years and we're
still not even really close to being
able to understand that
uh
do you think
yeah so like i would love to be shown
like proof that these people really have
unlocked the secrets of childhood mental
health so much so
so much so to the point where you can
make decisions for children uh impacting
their adult futures and long-term
futures so this is the case for every
single medical field no it's not because
wait no no no here's the difference
it's absolutely not because in other no
no in other in other medical schools
fields say for psychiatry usually you're
getting medical treatments because you
already have life-threatening or
life uh harming whatever diseases and
pathologies which you have no other
choice but to treat in a way that
medical professionals would be required
in that's why for example yes it's true
for every other medical profession but
we know that those things will help you
for example in saving your life or
preventing a long-term impairment of one
of your your functions in your body you
don't know with a hundred percent
certainty but it more or less works now
this is the decision you're talking
about this is something besides like one
sentence
go ahead um yeah sure so like
uh
what what i'm saying was the logic that
you could use um earlier where you're
saying that like we don't know
everything that could happen this is
used in every single medical field no i
just explained right
i just explained why
it's a basic risk versus reward
situation for all the other ones
okay yeah sure and it's the same for
transgender people no it's not it's
people
it's absolutely not the risk
a lot of these people when they go to
therapists um they usually talk about
like suicidal ideation in terms of
gender dysphoria so a lot of these
things
i don't think if children are talking
about suicidal ideation that
any psychological in terms of like
chemicals they should not be uh be given
chemicals in response to that in any
capacity whether it's uh pills for uh
psychological psychiatric pills for
their mental health or uh i don't
believe in any of that for children
whatsoever you don't believe in helping
children through medication
um look you worded that in such a
weasley [Β __Β ] way or you don't believe
in helping children with medication yeah
of course i do do i believe children's
psychological problems should be
addressed with chemicals no i don't do
you think we should help children's yeah
sure i mean i was asking a question so
that i could clarify the position so
um are you saying that we should
not give children any medication to help
them with mental problems
no
uh
no you're not saying that or yes i don't
i know you are no i don't think you
should
um
okay i mean
so wait really you don't think we should
give children i don't think you should
give seven-year-olds who are too hyper
ritalin and all this other dumb [Β __Β ] i
don't think you should give children all
these [Β __Β ] pills and chemicals which
are gonna [Β __Β ] them up in the long term
[Β __Β ] no i don't think you should i mean
i mean yeah if they're gonna [Β __Β ] them
up in the morning but they are [Β __Β ]
them up in the long term and we're
seeing it in real time you think i would
let my kids you think i would let a
doctor give my kid [Β __Β ] pills they're
going to alter how their brain [Β __Β ]
works [Β __Β ] no i was raised by my parents
the way my parents were raised by their
parents and so on and so on sans maybe
thousands of [Β __Β ] years we didn't
have any of these [Β __Β ] pills and
we've been doing fine i'm not gonna
raise my [Β __Β ] kids in that way and
and as far as i know about americans and
the american people are concerned they
also have traditions of raising children
that stretch back hundreds and hundreds
of years that weren't in need of these
chemical brain altering things for their
[Β __Β ] kids so yeah i don't i i'm
completely against that hundred thousand
[Β __Β ] percent
okay so you just like
like this is just a hard line you draw
it on like
uh
like any type of
meditation that would help a child with
their mental problems you don't want to
ever like no no chemicals whatsoever
um
and that's just like
that's just like a morality thing for
you that's that's nothing else like you
would apply that to every other
situation
what what are you talking about
um
can't think for a second
can you mute can i think okay
let's say if you had a child
um
that was
like
really um like they had some type of
like
mental disorder um and this might cause
them to like commit suicide uh what oh
and what mental disorder are you
referring to this is just a hypothetical
i i don't believe that's how the brain
works though i don't think you just have
mental disorders that randomly cause you
to commit
you know random acts i'm coming from the
perspective of psychoanalysis so it's
you're going to have to okay
i'm trying to give a hand you're going
to be hard pressed to give to convince
me that highly subjectivized and highly
experiential things like so the reason
i'm giving you a hypothetical here is so
that i can um try to understand where
your moral value is basically
you're wasting time you're wasting my
time right now you're wasting my [Β __Β ]
time i mean you can you don't need to
explain to me the abstract merit of
hypotheticals
there's no medical disorder that
randomly has people commit suicide it
doesn't exist in reality okay well it's
not how the brain works so it's it's a
hypothetical premise on the false
assumption of how brains work
okay but
okay let's say listen i know you're
trying to copy all of your speech
patterns and mannerisms from [Β __Β ]
destiny but why don't you actually
listen to what i just [Β __Β ] told you
you are making the false assumption that
the thing the reason why people have
suicidal ideation all this kind of stuff
is directly caused by chemically
identifiable um disorders in the brain i
don't buy that paradigm of [Β __Β ]
mental health yeah or psychiatry
whatsoever so the hypothetical is
premised by an entirely entirely
according to me false view of psychology
in the first place
um yeah i don't i don't buy that either
however that's not what i was assuming
what i'm trying to give you what i'm
trying to give you is a situation in
which you could you could say for
example they may have just you could you
could try and say for example and they
need help you can try and say for
example someone can be born with a
severe case of autism
according to which they engage in highly
destructive and self-destructive
activity for example they're hitting
themselves a lot and they're doing all
this kind of things that yeah like self
injurious behavior yeah yeah yeah
there's forms of extreme autism which
fall into yeah yeah i i actually studied
this so yeah i know
yeah
okay yeah yeah so okay in those cases if
there's some type of like pill you can
give them that might alter their like
chemistry
um but it like works 100 of the time um
would you be okay yeah sure a sedative
or something like that sure otherwise
the alternative is is they're going to
die right okay i'm i mean
but you have to understand you have to
understand that when you're talking
probably injured you don't know if
they're gonna die like they're just like
hitting their head against the wall like
i mean well there's a high there's a
high risk that they're going to yeah
they're constantly engaging in self
injurious behavior yeah yeah
just like if a person's um constantly
engaging in suicidal thoughts where they
yeah but here's the difference yeah the
difference in the case of suicidal
ideation is that that's a highly
subjectivized phenomena which is
mediated
which is mediated actually by
consciousness it's something mediated by
consciousness in a case of severe autism
and people engaging in this repetitive
extremely uh dangerous self-destructive
behavior that's not a highly subjective
uh behavior mediated by the intro some
labyrinth of consciousness it's almost a
kind of spontaneous pathological
activity that they have four reasons
that we can at least know cannot be
addressed in the form of uh external
environmental um
uh intervention like and for example in
the way in which you talk to them and
and deal with them like they as far as
we don't even know per se but for now
there's no way we can deal with that
whatsoever
in any other way besides giving them
some kind of sedative or giving them
some kind of pill which will calm them
down and prevent them from engaging in
this
behavior which is destructive to them
and others but that behavior can't be
like psychoanalyzed right that behavior
is just something they're doing almost
like
uh autonomy like an almost kind of like
autonomously right without any
subjective or conscious clear subjective
or conscious mediation whatsoever like
for example they're not doing this
they're like they're not like um oh yeah
i'm hitting myself and i'm hitting
people because i'm sad or because my
feelings were hurt or because i'm upset
they are just doing it and you don't
know why they're doing it right so
and you can't communicate them with in
any way to figure out why they're doing
it so in that case yeah there's no issue
but that doesn't comprise what i would
that doesn't fall under the rubric of
what i would call children's
psychological um
children's psychology because that's
more a case of physio physiology in that
case if it's something that's not uh uh
subjective or consciously mediated then
it's physiological at that point right
but in the case of children's psychology
and their mental issues and their highly
subjective consciousness whatever yeah
you don't respond to that with pills
that's something i fundamentally believe
okay so i'm trying to um so it seems
like you would respond to it by pills
though if it was like a one hundred
percent guaranteed no
it has nothing to do with even even if
it was a sixty percent guarantee the
five
100 is irrelevant even maybe in some
extreme cases 15 percent might suffice
because they're engaging in a
physiologically based not psychological
physiological based highly
self-destructive form of behavior to
themselves and others it's not about the
percentage of how much times the pill
would work it is about the nature of the
phenomena which needs to be addressed in
the first place which is not
psychological in a sense that i'm
referring to
first of all if you're using a um
if you if the reason they're hitting
themselves or doing some type of
self-injurious behavior or having
thoughts of suicide if these are um no
these are
like chemicals
if
not if they're having thoughts of
suicide if they are spontaneously and in
almost involuntarily harming themselves
or others which is something that
happens in severe cases of autism and
maybe something like down syndrome or
things like that okay but we're not
talking about suicidal ideation ideation
okay okay we can we can scratch that and
come back to it later so um
so sure if someone's having like
self-injurious behavior um and
if the
problems are with like the chemicals in
their brain or whatever um and then you
give them a pill to regulate their their
brain chemicals um and it works ninety
percent of the time and ten percent of
the time it it might make their like
bones slightly bigger um but it would
like
dramatically help with their like uh
life do you think that we should give
them this pill or are you kind of
against it well let me address the way
you just phrased that in two ways right
the first one is you said their brain
chemicals that's not
the case of uh these cases that we're
talking about are not down to some like
uh arbitrary measurement of brain
cancers we're talking about a
physiological difference there's a
physiological difference for example
people who have down syndrome have
different number of chromosomes so it's
not just a matter of uh brain chemical
difference they have a very clear severe
physiological difference sure it's not
brilliant it requires them to be
addressed in a different way so
and then second of all second of all
okay second of all
the percent is irrelevant if they are
engaging in behavior in which they
cannot be controlled they cannot control
themselves where they're constantly
hitting themselves and others need to be
sedated
the risk and reward factor has obviously
tilted to the point because this is
something again
not being mediated by consciousness
something that's not highly subjective
but strictly physiological the risk
reward factor has shift just like if you
got cancer or if you got some kind of
disease right but even if you found a
study in which you found that 80 percent
for example of transgender people will
grow up if they don't do this to engage
in self-injurious behavior you can't
treat it as the same thing because it's
not an involuntary involuntarily
spontaneous physiological thing it's
something highly subjectivized and
mediated psychologically and mediated
consciously so it's in no way comparable
do you think that um subjective things
in which you like uh mediate consciously
do you think that these things can be
operationalized or no absolute this is
the number one prejudice of american
psychiatry and my answer is a resounding
no it can't
wait why not like it seems like because
these things are not reducible to their
physiological substrates and if you
target their physiological substrates in
order to affect the output you are
probably just harming and butchering uh
this person's uh uh health their
physical how do you know that like it's
because it's not physiologically
reducible
a subject is not physiologically reduced
yeah i
yeah i
yeah i know um yeah so it's like you
can't operationally control as someone's
subjective conscious experience with
chemicals well no
you're not sorry the word operationalize
is to mean like um to
uh
measure something subjective in an
objective way so instead of like um so
like something subjective is like
walking across the street um so like
what does that mean like we have to
operationalize to figure out uh how do
you like walk across the street so um if
you like walk across the street halfway
but then kind of like go off the like
crosswalks a bit and then go back on it
and then finish is that walking across
the street like we have these different
types of measurements and we group them
in so that we can um do like statistical
analysis
yeah i don't think you can do so under
the paradigm of modern psychiatry and
under the paradigm of modern natural
science i don't
um
and the reason because
unlike in natural science you are
dealing with an object which is not just
an object okay in natural science you're
just dealing with object in this case
the
uh the observer themselves
shares the same uh subjective uh
uh
position of annunciation so to speak as
the so-called object
well isn't that kind of like um
doesn't this like a scientist falsely
objectivizes the other while not taking
into account they are just doing so
they're making a subjective intervention
upon another subject in the disguise
that it's merely objective don't you
think that your reasoning here um kind
of loops back into itself like um you're
saying
it it sounds like this is what you're
saying i'm not saying you are i'm trying
to get more further clarification um
it sounds like what you're saying is
that
in soft sciences
or like social sciences what they're
doing is they're taking subjective
material and um they're operationalizing
it into objective material to study it
and this is bad because it's not
objective material so what's like
important about objective material am i
missing something because they're not
the same thing
i mean
why does that matter towards whether
because it's not actually objective
that's why
i mean
yeah but if something highly correlates
to like one factor you can would you
maybe you haven't actually isolated the
cause but if you're treating it as
objective you can be very dangerous
you're treating the cause as an
objective even though it's not even
practically speaking you're intervening
in such a way so as to treat the cause
as something objective
by targeting the physiological
substrates when in fact it's not
objective so it's a very dangerous thing
you're doing
wait okay even
even if you're measuring things that
objective you cannot say there is an
objective cause you can never do that in
science okay but unless you're so far
an objective intervention in someone's
physiology that is what you're doing
uh
can you say that in different words
in so far as the conclusion of such a
study is going to allow you to uh
intervene in people's physiological uh
constitution with chemicals and pills
and all this kind of [Β __Β ] you are
[Β __Β ] doing that
um
you're doing mine
you are treating it as objective
oh
and you're treating the cause you're as
objective because you're
well no you're not treating yes you are
you fundamentally are treating the
causes objectives so if you would
so like usually in like scientific
studies
um they always i don't think they ever
say like this is the reason this happens
this is the cause 100 percent but
they're usually
implied in the method of treatment what
is what does operationally implied mean
it means in the measure of the way in
which the treatment works implies that
that is the cause
um
i
but but they don't they don't yes it
does the way the treatment
works implies that it's the cause
what what study does this that they
imply it's the cause every single one
that's relevant to what you're talking
about no they usually say they have a
sort of like correlation and that they
should further continue into their
studies to figure out if the correlation
um they can repeat this
gina whatever your name is xena it's
like xena whatever
you are not listening to what i'm saying
if this study is going to lead you to
the conclusion that the solution is
we're going to prescribe these pills
you are basically saying what the cause
is
um
well this well they're saying the
solution is to do this because it seems
like it's working and we should keep
going yeah but you don't know what the
cause is in the first place yeah sure
you never it just seems
but you don't know what the cause is in
actual reality so what actually are you
doing you don't know this is why they
say you're tampering with something you
don't know
it just apparently works
but what are the side effects what are
the long-term implications what are the
long-term results right you don't know
these things
because you don't know the cause but you
make it seem like you know the cause
when you prescribe the pills in this way
you're implying you know the cause and
you [Β __Β ] don't you have you ever
looked at a medication bottle i'm pretty
sure on them they say like oh by the way
we don't know if this will help this
yeah
yeah but guess what
yeah but guess what like physical
medication as well yeah but like i said
in all modern science it's a matter um
okay first of all first of all
listen we are talking about the
so-called social science not the hard
science which is why scientists do these
as well hard sciences do these as well
all science does this but it's not the
same because in that case you are
operating under a paradigm of how human
physiology works
how you understand how the psychological
sphere works is entirely different
i mean
uh that's because it's not saying unlike
in the
unlike in the case of the hard
physiological medical sciences where
there are attributable causes and
effects or at least apparent causes and
effects
can you show me um a study that is of
the hard sciences and like biology or
chemistry that um that say like this
causes this can you like one obviously
those exist they don't do that yeah they
do
obviously they'll say this causes this
reaction this causes uh this uh result
obviously they do that
i'm pretty sure obviously they say this
causes this adverse reaction most of the
time or for this person
most of the time yeah sure they might
say like this has a correlative factor
no they don't say they say it causes no
they don't the first thing you learn in
every single science um like department
is correlation doesn't equal causation
yeah but that doesn't mean that these
hard sciences don't deal with causation
they do they demonstrably do
but they don't
yes they do just because they reject the
view that correlation is causation
doesn't mean they don't seek to discover
the actual causes of things yeah yeah
sure in their studies
yeah exactly they do seek causation but
that doesn't mean they say what you're
talking about is absolute you're talking
about epistemology whether it's
absolutely known if this is the cause
and obviously they don't claim that but
they still are saying it's the cause
they still do
they still
so i'm pretty sure you're saying that
like the main point is that it we don't
know everything it could have this side
effect it could have this side effect
yeah and what they'll say is that the
risk reward is this they talk about
listen it's risk and reward
sure the risk from awareness right but
the reason it's risk and reward
is is listen
the reason it's risk and reward is
because you can't deal with it just by
thinking as far as we know maybe we'll
get to a point where we can master
some kind of ancient wisdom or
spirituality where we can do that but
for now if you have for example uh if
you have a bacterial infection inside of
you you take a z-pack or something and
you don't know all you don't even know
what you're doing your body really you
really don't know but if you want to
stop that infection from getting way
worse and killing you you just take the
pill and that's what happens but when it
comes to something that's
psychologically and high mediated
consciously mediated highly subjective
when you're treating the cause of that
in the same way you're doing something
very dangerous
you're doing that the same way because
you are you are you are you are
withdrawn
you are withdrawing from and abandoning
your basic human subjectivity and
objectivizing you at your most
fundamental level
any type of non-uh over-the-counter
medication is going to be more risky
that's why they don't put it over the
counter and you have to go through like
okay
it has nothing to do with whether it's
risky when i say you're doing a very
dangerous thing i'm saying you're doing
you're engaging in a fundamental act of
uh denying your own subjectivity more or
less how is it dangerous
how's it dangerous because you're doing
because you're doing things to yourself
you're doing things to yourself which
are not only known in terms of their
effects and so on and so on but
there is no clear
relationship between the so-called
psychological result the subjective
result and what you're doing with
yourself
there's there's usually pretty high
causation
well yeah that's that's that's why they
conclude that like we should try to
continue doing this thing it's because
it has um a correlation yeah but you
don't know what's happening in that case
you don't actually know what's happening
it apparently works
right
but you don't actually know what's
happening i guess but like i mean you
don't know what's happening in every
single scenario we could say that yeah
yeah but here's the difference since
it's something consciously and
subjectively mediated right you're not
dealing with it on the terms of its
actual existence and expression in the
form of
subjectively and psychologically and so
on you're not dealing with the phenomena
in the cradle of its actual essence
you're dealing with it like it's an
objective natural scientific uh
phenomena that's reducible to that
rather than for example addressing it at
the surface level
um
so in this case the correct thing would
to do for example
would be to focus on the symptom and not
look for a physical cause just focus on
the symptom
um
yeah so it seems that's what for example
psychoanalysis does not mean
psychoanalysis focuses on the symptom it
doesn't look for the actual physical
cause
are you done
go ahead
okay i did you just didn't let me before
um yeah so i think we were talking about
um
like what's the
what's the difference between
uh the subjective consonant like
the subjective um or not measuring
subjectivity uh you
record the subjectivity and then you
measure
um it through you record the recording
of the subjectivity and then measure the
recording of the recording of the
measurement because it's an infinite
recursion you know that right
right
it's this is the basic kind of german
idealist kantian paradox what you're
talking about is an infinite recursion
you can't draw a real line between
objective and subjective when the object
is subjective
okay okay please don't go down this like
um what's it called
going down this road you have come to a
place in which this is a place of
enlightenment not the place of anglo box
this is a place where we do talk about
content
all these things to take seriously all
issues in all matters where i'm not
getting trapped in your dumb ass anglo
box this is not university this is not a
medical school
if we're talking about i can youtube you
know i can just mute you right i mean
you can mute i mean you can mute me if
you really don't want to hear what i'm
trying if i don't want you to go ffffff
do that [Β __Β ] again i'll meet you
okay
um so if we're talking about it's not
trying to sound like destiny
okay
i know you say okay just like he does
too
okay so if we're talking about
subjectivity okay
so if we're talking about subjectivity
um versus objectivity
and we're trying to show the difference
between these and then you bring up an
argument in which you say
uh oh well
you see the
um
it's an infinite recursion what is
subjective what is objective it seems
like we kind of like break the whole
system and we were arguing
uh under
a uh like a premise already like
of
like how we were understanding these
concepts but it kind of seems like you
broke the concepts um and we have to go
back and fix them so that's why i was
not wanting to go down that path because
it seems like what happens is like uh we
were already working with like a pretty
well understood like difference between
what is subjective what is objective and
then you kind of just like broke that um
it's okay if you want to go down that
road let's go down i don't know what the
[Β __Β ] you're talking about so let's go
down
okay sure so um i'm guessing i would say
subjective is usually something that you
can't like um
like physically measure that you really
have to
okay well what would you say subject you
can't really physically measure uh dark
matter or most things in quantum
mechanics modern physics are not
physically measured they're just based
on mathematics so i would not agree with
that definition of subjective
i mean can't you like
uh
okay so what's your definition of
subjective then
yeah subjective concerns the very
position of the annunciation of the
subject the embodied subject and the
conscious being
who is uh
intervening in the natural world the
natural so-called object of natural
science uh in such a way so as to
measure it so as to quantify it and and
so on and so on and the reason we draw
this cartesian distinction after
modernity is because we draw a fine line
between us our consciousness i who i am
my identity uh my self-hood and all this
kind of stuff we draw a distinction
between this the observer the subject
the conscious being and the world
outside of us which is apparently uh
outside of our
consciousness and outside of our
subjectivity and which is therefore
treated according to modern science as a
kind of dead
uh
dead thing something that's not
a person not a subject not something
with thoughts not something which
reflexes
reflects upon itself and has the quality
of self-reflexivity okay so for example
a stone does not reflect upon what is a
stone who is a stone what does the stone
do it's just a stone right that's all it
is so an object is a strict cause of the
subject
um
okay i'm gonna try to summarize this
because um
i said a lot of words
i'm just trying to educate you that's
the issue
okay yeah so i'm trying to get you to
educate me so that's why i'm restating
the sentence in my own words so i can
understand it so we can continue with
the conversation
can i do that go ahead
okay sure so um
i'm guessing you're saying that like
subjective is something that you can't
uh observe with your consciousness no
objectives no
okay
so
um can you
say it in a way you would think i would
understand yes i'll say it one more time
okay it has nothing to do with uh it's
not about whether you can observe it or
not it's about whether you can
externalize it and objectify it in the
first place and embody it as a thing
that is outside of you or outside of the
sphere of discursive intercommunicative
rationality if you want to go down
harmony whatever you want to call it it
is something you can externalize into a
thing
it's something you what do you mean by
externalize
something outside of the realm of
consciousness language subjectivity and
so on and so on and agents and so on and
so on so it's outside the realm of
thought
consciousness subjectivity
um
wait
okay
if it's outside the thought um like you
can't
think about it that's subjective
if it is something that is not for
itself it's only for you
does it make sense better it's only in
itself like a rock it's not for you it's
not for itself you are the subject for
whom
it appears or it appears to be relevant
or significant or whatever like you know
the word subject and grammar right it's
pretty much the same thing we're talking
about a rock
would be the object you would be the
subject because the rock imposes its
significance its relevance for your
sphere of experience for you
in itself you don't have any business
with that rock
but you are the thing you are what the
rock is for as far as your world of
meaning is concerned
the rock exists for you
and when
what it is in and of itself is not
relevant to you
um
and that's not relevant to me because i
can't know if the rock exists
it's not relevant to you because insofar
as you make it relevant you become the
subject of the manner by which you
interact with it or think about it or
um deal with it
uh with the rock
yeah insofar as you make this ront and a
rock an object of your
uh concern you are the subject of the
rock
um
so
what do you mean by concern
if you think about it interact with it
or make it concern yourself with it in
any capacity
so if i think about the rock that means
the rock is subjective
you are the subject the manner by which
you are you are you are engaging in a
subjective
process you are thinking about iraq a
rock doesn't think about itself because
it's an object
iraq doesn't think about you as far as
you're concerned at least because
there's no language that mediates any
relationship between you and the rock
okay i understand it just clicked okay
cool so um
okay so how can we translate these
concepts to what we were talking about
earlier
well you're the one who wanted to
clarify the difference between
subjective and objective well yeah
that's because it seems like okay let's
let's uh translate it then
if you are taking a given psychological
uh phenomena a given psychological
subjectively linguistically
consciously mediated phenomena
in reality
and treating it like an object
isolating it uh as an object for example
at that moment
oh are you just against like western
forms of medicine
um
i'm advocating right now ultimately my
position is not relevant but for let's
say devil's advocate i'm just advocating
for a normal modernist position on the
question of modern science
you are
beyond the shadow realm of uh
you are beyond the threshold of what i
would consider sanity with the way
you're describing it i consider uh the
modern sciences progression into trying
to treat the subjective phenomena as a
objective natural scientific phenomena
to be a form of civilizational madness
right but
insofar as we're going before this
neoliberal period or whatever yeah the
basic modern position is that there's a
difference between a subject and an
object subjects are rationally
discursively
mediated beings through language and
through thought and so on and so on and
the objective natural world is something
outside of us the minute you start to
treat human being as an object outside
of us
in this kind of way you engage in a type
of barbarism that's the modern western
position
um of which we have departed from
significantly i don't really care if
it's the modern western position um
but
like
okay
so
um
what is
what does this have to do with the um
like
what does this have to do with the
overall point it seems like what we were
talking about before was um you had a
problem you are trying to address a
psychological mental
uh whatever subjective phenomena
in an objective way
um
how else would you treat it
of course subjectively
but how do you measure something
subjectively you don't you don't measure
it that's the thing you don't measure
how can you measure an individual
experience you can't
yeah you if you like objectively measure
it that's fine but like okay so can't
measure someone's actual subjectivity
how do you make any studies off of
subjective experiences then
that's why i think uh modern psychology
is all [Β __Β ] throw it in the garbage
uh okay i gotta throw it in the dumpster
all of it burn it all like they burned
like the mongols sacked the library of
baghdad like uh julius caesar
accidentally destroyed the library of
alexandria burn burn burn destroy all of
it fahrenheit 451 yeah okay of course um
got it
um
yeah okay and um so you're saying that
the
like you just can't
uh give a
objective reason for a
um subjective experience
no
and what's the reason at least if we're
in the realm of modern science no yes
well
i mean
you you can do it if we operate from the
basic cartesian distinction which is the
founding of modern natural science and
the medical field and everything no you
can't
[Music]
um
what do you mean no you i mean i can't
can you measure love measure love for me
um you can
okay sure you can um go ahead and give
people a survey and then you can say hey
have you felt and loved before and then
they could mark yes or no and you mark
those numbers down as one and two and
then you can start uh pushing putting
this on so
your inputs and your outputs are
basically what are they going to output
on the survey so for example the way you
would interact with that operationally
would be you know you would produce a
different all this time they said no
they didn't love their mother right
you're not actually addressing the core
of their experience though in any kind
of way you know how you address the core
of their experience you'd say let's talk
about your mother that's what freud said
he said sit down let's talk about your
mother let's walk through your
experience as a child let's actually
explore that let's not treat it as a
static objectified output
because we're lazy and we don't actually
care about people's inner experience we
just care about the extent to which they
comprise
phenomenal impressions on our horizon of
experience you're basically saying oh
get this phenomena you're just treating
the phenomena's output not actually
addressing its actual essence or its
actual uh real cost well measuring the
output is how we figure out no it's not
because listen this is why americans are
[Β __Β ] up in the head you are different
you are
you are all you people of the medical
establishment you are manipulating
everyone's output because you're sick of
people complaining and whining and
you're doing it to such a point that you
give them all these pills and they
become zombies all the outputs fine but
inside deep inside in their subjective
experience they are screaming and then
when they go and commit suicide you go
huh well we gave them all the pills and
we did all this oh i wonder why they
went and committed suicide because you
didn't even [Β __Β ] interact with them
in a human way you treated them as a
[Β __Β ] object and you just gave them a
bunch of [Β __Β ] pills to solve their
[Β __Β ] problems because you were sick
of the phenomenal output without
concerning yourself in any crypt
critical capacity whatsoever for the
real cause
so
i'm not a psychiatrist by the way yeah
but through the medical establishment
and your consensus has led to the
so-called crisis of mental health we are
now experiencing in america
i mean i blame you
okay
uh
okay
so
um
yeah so the
i think what you have a problem is is
people measuring
things
um in an objective way but i'm measuring
subjective things yeah in an objective
way yeah
um yeah that's what i meant sorry
so
um how do you measure things in a
subjective way and if you can't which
you can don't measure it measurement
implies quantification sure so how do
you human interaction how do you know
treatment how do you know the treatment
for i'll explain to you how you know
how do you know if a treatment for a
subjective um problem is helping you
cannot treat a subjective problem from
the perspective of medical uh natural
science you can't
i would say go seek religion go seek
psychoanalysis go seek spirituality
that's how i would respond to it and let
me tell you why the d here's where the
line begins and ends wait when you are
talking about how to subjectively help
someone you're implying two things
you're dealing with two things
let's say there's someone who's [Β __Β ]
miserable with life and i want to treat
them right
there's two things that are being
implied here one i'm assuming a state of
subjective happiness a baseline norm and
i'm saying you know what this person's
miserable but they could be happy
because i know happiness i've
experienced happiness why don't i try to
interact with them in a way so they
could see what i'm able to see right
that's how that's one so you are
assuming a premise that happiness is
possible as a human being that's an
extremely subjective spiritual whatever
you want to call uh assumption because
what if the from a philosophical
perspective what if the miserable person
is right and they're actually true what
if they're correct what if there is no
meaning to the world that if we are
honest with ourselves about what our
place in the universe and in the cosmos
is we should be [Β __Β ] miserable there
are philosophers who have written that
the only honest thing humanity can do is
collectively commit suicide right this
is a this is up for contention that must
be dealt with spiritual and
philosophically it's not a given you
can't just assume that people should be
happy or people should be okay so that's
one of the ways it's subjectively loaded
the second thing you're going to be
assuming
is that you can communicate with them in
such a way that as a human being as a
subject you are basically the same as
them that you like them are human and
that even though you don't know them
uh you are you are
living in the same world as them living
in the same universe as them and sharing
the same subjective discursive uh
rational whatever you want space as them
not you're not some scientist in other
words who's above them who's going to
solve their problems and cure them
magically you are no different than them
you're just another [Β __Β ] guy right
you're going to communicate them get on
their level and they're going to come to
an understanding that you are just like
them and vice versa and so on so you're
going to work with them in a way that is
mutually imperiling both your
subjectivities you're not going to be a
scientist sitting in his ivory tower
who's just assuming that his
subjectivity is safeguarded and
unaltered and he's just going to treat
this person like an experiment you as
the person intervening in this person's
life you're going to put your skin in
the game you're going to put your own
heart on the line too right that's what
it means to help a friend in need when
you have a friend in need who's suicidal
and depressed you don't go up to them
like you're an impartial scientist who
doesn't you know who's outside you're
gonna say look dude i get it i
understand i'm miserable too you know
like and then you give them words of
encouragement you do things like that
you be a human being who's able to get
on their human level those are the two
things you have to be assuming when
you're talking about subjectively
treating someone things like
quantification things like measurement
that kind of [Β __Β ] doesn't [Β __Β ] figure
into it
wait okay
so
how do we figure out if like um these
types of like subjective ways of
of treating subjective measurements how
do we figure out yeah yeah what the [Β __Β ]
did you just say
subjective ways of treating subjective
measurements what the hell yeah
like if you have like a therapy there
are no measurements there are no
measurements so exactly more objective
whatever that means objective there's no
measurements can i speak so if you have
a um
if you have a
person who's going through a really
tough time
um
and you know you're trying to be there
for a friend
um
like and then it's like oh cool
um you know maybe this helps them would
it not help this person how do we know
um you don't think maybe we should
that's the contingency of a subjectivity
yeah we don't know so so is there
because i think there's a way that we
can no no if we combine these
experiences so let's say like this
person had this experience this person
had this experience this person had this
absolutely not we're all kind of human
there is no
mutual subjective interaction in that
case whatsoever
you don't think we can ever make you are
trying to
you are trying to foreclose a mutually
subjective experience and substituted
with taking the sum total of subjective
experiences and producing an objective
result and you can't do that
um
i mean you can
no you can't by definition you can't i'm
pretty sure wait can you repeat it
hello so
can i repeat it no i'm not gonna [Β __Β ]
repeat it i'm sick of you asking me to
repeat [Β __Β ] that i've been trying so
hard
so [Β __Β ] hard for you to understand
something so [Β __Β ] simple you're
treating it as objective but it is
actually not objective
wait um you're not okay you're not true
you can treat it like it's objective but
in reality it's not if you agree
where is the objectivity then in that
you're not treating the um subjectivity
with like an objective statement um if
you're going through like a therapeutic
approach um you would be measuring it in
objective standards which isn't um that
isn't you interacting
um with the human at that point like you
would be uh you would be doing this
listen from the perspective of modern
science modern science not the monster
that is outgrown that lives now modern
science is in cartesian modern science
so-called psychological health begins
and ends when you say as a human being i
am no different than you i don't know
something objectively that you don't
know but i have found a way to
understand the wisdoms and the trials
and tribulations of reality let's say
i'm your father i'm your grandfather
that can help you or i'm someone in your
life whatever but
ultimately i don't have knowledge in the
sense of modern science which is going
to solve your problem we're all here
we're all here i don't know something
you don't [Β __Β ] know right we're all
here sharing the same uh
we are all here no you don't not in the
sense of objectives
we are all here experiencing reality in
real time i don't know something in
terms of someone's spiritual
psychological conscious predicament
that they don't know in the sense of the
knowledge relevant to modern science i'm
here just like you're here i'm dealing
with the fundamental torsion the
fundamental cut at the heart of being
that gives rise to self-reflexivity and
subjectivity the fundamental melodrama
of human being of human ontology i am
also at the mercy of that just like you
are we have in a sense the same problem
okay i don't have a solution to the
problem uh you don't have because i have
the same problem and
the only thing we can do is i have
learned to come to peace with this
problem in a specific way right but i
don't i don't i haven't found a way to
abstract myself from this problem that
is subject object division
um
okay
um
i have a question for you
yeah
um
would you say you're a confident person
okay would you yeah
yeah yeah i would do um so like
if you are trying to explain like let's
say someone like a close friend comes to
you um and they say hey
um
well i'm not feeling very confident i'm
i need a solution
would you say well this is a subjective
experience i don't i could never know
what you're facing
um and i could uh no you know this is
this is that you literally listen to
like any type of other situations or
anything or are you generally i want to
ask the question one question no the
knowledge you know yeah yeah i'm so
smart by the way you're so smart open
question
are you and maybe i'm not i'm not doing
this to make fun of you i mean i don't
make assumptions
do you have like a physiological uh
impairment that doesn't allow you to
like um
communicate with people or like
understand what people say you have like
a language disability problem anything
like that i should be aware of before i
uh
let's talk about this because i'm pretty
sure i remember saying pretty clearly
that language is what mediates
uh the common
mutually subjective experience
between subjects so no you don't say oh
i could never know you get on their
[Β __Β ] level what's going on why don't
you have confidence how do i give my own
[Β __Β ] check that's the worst example
you could give you go by example and if
there's still a barrier a fundamental
barrier that you can't like the reason
why you have objective natural science
is because there's a barrier i can talk
to a rock all i [Β __Β ] want there's
some kind of barrier that can't be
bridged right
now if you're a humanist whatever
barrier is going on between you and
another human being you're gonna try the
hardest you can if you're a friend to
cross that barrier if you fail you bring
your friend to someone else and you keep
trying and you you bring them to a holy
person you bring them to a chef you
bring them to a priest you bring them to
somebody and uh someone who's smarter
than you
but ultimately the truth is you have the
same problem that they do
um and this most of the time most of the
time how it works
is if there's if you have a depressed
friend most of the time
is that the person can't help their
friend
because if they were honest with
themselves they're no better they would
also be depressed too it's just they're
too stupid to realize it right if you
come from a perspective for example of
uh psychoanalysis or psychology
something like this
then it's going to be different because
you have acquired an interest in these
things because you are yourself trying
to cope and deal with this pathologies
or it can even be religion right if
you're a very spiritual person you say
oh i understood where you were that's
why i adopted religion that's how jesus
saved my [Β __Β ] life and prevented me
from [Β __Β ] i'm not me personally but
i've talked to so many [Β __Β ] people
who are coming around the place jesus
saved my [Β __Β ] life it wasn't for
jesus i would have [Β __Β ] killed myself
so many people have told me that right
so yeah everybody has
the same problem basically not the same
form of this problem but nobody's above
somebody else where they're going to act
like there's some kind of a lab quote
scientist who know who has some kind of
yeah you know objective isn't anybody
else but some people are more like
experienced just like you said
what these scientists you are talking
about are spiritual pygmies they're not
experiencing anything if i wouldn't [Β __Β ]
their wife they would cry and break down
entirely
don't tell me these scientists are
experienced people they are experienced
in nothing nothing that concerns the
fundamental wisdom of human experience
now their experience when going to
school and being eggheads and writing
[Β __Β ] on their clipboard and whatever the
[Β __Β ] they're doing but they are not
experienced in the sense of fundamental
human experience don't give me that
[Β __Β ] my [Β __Β ] grandma more
experience than scientist
okay so do you think your grandma is
more experienced on something that maybe
she hasn't read a lot about um versus
like a person who's read a lot about a
subject talked to a lot of people on the
subject has like um done a lot of this
okay listen destiny clone destiny clone
number five thousand four hundred and
forty four yeah but you don't which you
seem to not [Β __Β ] understand right and
your destiny voice is so [Β __Β ]
annoying by the way
what we are talking about you're not
just talking about reading something
you're again that something is something
fundamentally subjective so don't get it
twisted and try to weasel your way into
making this announcement say oh do you
think that maybe a nuclear scientist
knows more about your grandma than how
to on how to operate a nuclear reactor
yeah obviously but we're not talking
about the same [Β __Β ] things here are
we
just stay on topic about how to best
help trans people um let's say like
trans people are really struggling um
with like their identity they're saying
hey listen you know what here's what i
believe if you're an adult if you're an
adult you do whatever the [Β __Β ] you want
do whatever you want do whatever you see
fit i'm not gonna bother you
but i'm against you pushing this on
children
um i wouldn't want to push it on
children i'm against you putting
hormones on children manipulating with
children's sexuality uh giving them
hormone ball blockers and puberty
blockers that are going to permanently
alter them for life you know there could
be a guy what if there's a little boy
he was destined to grow up with a really
big beard really strong muscles super
tall really big manly man you give him
these blockers then he regrets it and
then for the rest of his life he's going
to be more feminine right and you just
took something away and he'll never get
back testosterone i don't know like
no you took away for something from him
he will never get back
that's what he wanted right
he was too stupid to know what he wanted
because he was a [Β __Β ] seven-year-old
child because he was a seven-year-old
child he was too stupid to know what he
wanted that's why you go to that's why
you go to a therapist
therapist where's the therapist [Β __Β ]
know even doctors don't know [Β __Β ] i went
to the [Β __Β ] doctor once uh about a
[Β __Β ] something stuck up my [Β __Β ]
nose and all there's nothing in her nose
nothing your nose i blew it out there
was something in my [Β __Β ] nose
even doc you acting like these people
know everything in the [Β __Β ] world and
they don't this this is a personal
example and that's not like there's
plenty of examples of plenty of people
you know
has unlocked the secrets of the human
mind
even [Β __Β ] doctors don't even know how
our body works but we still do it anyway
because we have to but when it comes to
our mental subjective space you
understand modern science rests upon the
assumption that my body is different
from my head my consciousness my soul
i'm gonna my body breaks so i go to the
doctor fix my body when you're targeting
the inner experience of consciousness
and subjectivity with pills and [Β __Β ] you
are violating someone's humanity at its
most visceral level when they're a
[Β __Β ] child
um
okay and gender identity is one of those
things that our inner
inner visceral experience you are
altering with something of a child they
don't know anything it's a child a child
doesn't know anything and you're gonna
[Β __Β ] make a decision a life altering
decision that's gonna impact them for
the rest of their life hell no
um i don't i haven't seen any uh
information that shows you
a robot you're a robot
uh well
you're pooping pretending listen you've
trained yourself to talk like destiny
and talk like a robot because this is
how you cope with the
this is how you cope with life to be a
robot this impartial robotic type of
person i see right past you xena i see
right past your robotic facade i see
right past the robotic facade
you're an emotional person you're gonna
break down and and cry in time in your
life you're you're not you're not some
robotic uh destiny type of person you're
sorry you're not
you do that because it makes you feel
powerful it makes you feel elevated
makes you feel above the world you're
not above the lord you below the world
uh okay wait are you saying i'm below
by you saying i'm below the world
doesn't that make you feel like you're
above the world and that's what you're
trying to do with you except it's true
except it's true okay
yeah
uh okay so how much destiny have you
watched
um i watched them back in uh 2018 but i
don't know how that has to do with any
of those would you learn all his ways of
talking
um
okay well it sounds like you've watched
a lot of hassan
i didn't watch a lot i didn't watch that
much on what about john circus because
that's the guy i'm most familiar with
john circle but even then i don't copy
him
one to one
people have said my cadence no people
have said sometimes my cadence resembles
him
you are a hundred percent destiny in
every way you speak we're talking about
that
really am i yeah 100 100
yeah yeah i'm not that's a cope
that's a pope
you you even try to laugh like destiny
what is wrong with you you're like a
skin crawler you're like you're walking
around in destiny's skin you're like be
it's like you want to be destiny himself
um
i mean not really i share that creepy
you're literally creepy
you know he's his own person right
you're an over excited fan you're an
overly enthusiastic fan and you might
even be like that stephen king i tell
destiny worry for these people because
you seem to be like that stephen king
movie where you're going to capture him
what's that movie where the the fan
captures the author
what's that movie guys what's that movie
everybody knows that movie the she
captures the author let's hope let's
hope you're never in a room with me
but
because you are a robotic broken record
you keep saying things i've already
addressed you're not moving past what's
already been addressed and addressing it
in a new way you're just saying the same
thing you did before
okay you've literally said that like um
that like
you can't treat any type of subjective
science this is a pretty like
uh crazy claim oh we live in a crazy
world don't worry
okay
so i'm trying to uh there's no
subjective science all soft science is
[Β __Β ] it's not science i think that
all this is what i believe oh you know
here's what i believe all non-stem
education
uh all non-stem hardcore science
education should not only be bankrupted
destroyed abbas and so on but in a legal
way a legal way ceremoniously by the
government government will do it
ceremoniously bulldozed and burned down
corrupt to me personally
huh that sounds really corrupt to me um
and all the people who are peddling
these false pain they should all be
thrown in jail that's what i believe too
dude i love just taking away people's
freedom of speech i agree i i think
that's because our freedom of speech has
led to the abuse of children so i want
to protect children
um
okay do you have any evidence um
showing that like
there is some type of like abuse towards
children why why not this is so silly
this is what la khan calls the discourse
of the university why do you demand
objective evidence when you know very
well that i qualify giving children
hormonal blockers a form of abuse why do
you need evidence there is nothing
empirically industry you think that's
abuse right there is nothing empirically
in dispute right now nothing is
empirically speaking in dispute you look
at one thing like for example you see
boscis for example it's not empirically
in dispute that vosh is saying pedo [Β __Β ]
but you just deny it's pedo [Β __Β ] right
so you don't have to say what is the
evidence you have to say why are you
calling it pedal [Β __Β ] you don't need to
this copium of uh
evidence is your copying you got
evidence you got evidence you got
evidence i didn't know what you
you got evidence
so i i didn't know what you meant by
child abuse but now you have evidence
you didn't know what i meant by child
abuse
yeah i asked it do you have evidence you
asked it
uh
i mean aren't you streaming you have
evidence that you just asked me the
question are you streaming
um
look it's getting late um i'd love to
talk to you again you have you have any
evidence that um it's getting late
um
and do you have any evidence that you
consider it good to talk to me if you um
if you're just going to keep doing this
um you you have any evidence of what i'm
going to keep doing no let's let's shift
to washington
let's let's shift
i just got it
or whatever yeah i just got told you
defend vascular pedophilia so let's talk
about this type of stuff um
like i don't know if you're gonna
uh keep doing this type of well i mean
it's do you have any evidence like i
don't know dude
let's talk about your defense of washes
uh pro pedo takes
pro pedo tanks yeah
you defended them in the before right
i uh i think i said i'm pretty sure that
a lot of the clips that people were
posting were taken out of context and i
don't think wait they were taken out of
context from the discord
um yeah people were posting clips okay
yeah situate their context properly
um sure so i'm pretty sure there's a
clip um i'd have to look back on it
um i'm pretty sure there was a clip
that said
um
oh vash was saying like
i think it's totally okay
for
um
for people to
um
have like
or people to like
um use child pornography
for time some type of uh
for some type of value to be gained in
society uh he said this type of claim
um
but the thing was it like cut off right
there and uh the rest of the claim was
if we are going to
um allow
different types of uh
what are they called like um
things you produce
uh yeah things you produce if we're
gonna allow different types of things
you produce and like buy
um if we're going to allow these types
of things to be made by children in like
uh child labor places so he was trying
to like compare it to that it was a
really like bad comparison uh it sounds
really bad but like hold on hold on
but vos knows that there's no way we
already are having
i'm not like hold on we are already
consuming computers and all that kind of
stuff so the only meaning that vos could
be saying is oh we should just allow we
may as well allow if we're going to
continue
yeah so he was anti um
he was trying to give an argument
against uh
i think he was talking about like a
vegan discussion
um and he was saying like
uh
yeah he was talking to like a vegan and
he was saying like the hypocrisy
of
um
a situation in which
someone
would say i'm not going to yeah but
that's a you know that's a pro pedal
porn cake right he's defending petal
porn in context now ultimately he may
believe there's another ultimately
ultimately he may claim that he's that's
the rape of children right no no
ultimately he may believe that in the
big rock candy mountain there shouldn't
be any but insofar as we live in this
fallen depraved world we may as well
have it right
um
and here's what's interesting is that
what about the other clip where he just
straight up said there's nothing morally
wrong with it
uh i'd have to see the clip i want to
watch it right now i'm not super well
read on this yeah do you want to watch
it now
yeah can you like share your screen yeah
we're going to go on and do it right now
peter wiley
wow
i uh so
my original claim that i made was i
don't think he said anything like
pedophilic um
someone in the discord uh
link it to me link it to me uh so
and the discord
i'm going to show you what i actually
have a few of these children i'm going
to show you a few of these actually
because there's actually a lot so we're
going to just see
some not all there's way more than this
right but
sure yeah
yeah
i mean
i don't know what the point of this is
like yeah sure i just want to see if
this was all taken out of context
okay sure i mean like
i don't know what um
i'm not like a huge
vosh viewer person so i'm not gonna know
every single like clip or whatever sure
sure
yeah we're gonna see um
we're gonna see right we're gonna see if
this uh holds up so let's look at vaush
and uh
i'm gonna mute my mic and i'm gonna give
you a chance to watch
all right cp is free if you're can you
pause the defensive path
no it's just a delay
not paying for child pornography then
there was no wait it wouldn't be a delay
can you shut up so we can you're you're
interrupting it you're not streaming it
yes i am there's a [Β __Β ] delay
wait no there isn't if you if you share
your screen there's no delay
i'm not gonna share my stream on my
screen
um i thought you were going to share it
on the uh on like no just watch it on
twitch so the audience can see too wait
wait wouldn't it be easier to
just um have like your youtube
like tab and then go to your share
screen thing on discord and then share
it so that we can watch it in real time
no just do this
okay let me let me open up your screen a
second
there's gonna be a delay
okay i have to open up your stream
i think it's gonna give me another cp is
free
yep
if you're not paying for child
pornography then there is no argument in
favor of morally condemning people who
get it
i would not say that it is uh unethical
for a person to purchase child
pornography it's just morally neutral
it's not ethical it's not unethical
should a consuming child be legal i
think that that would be yes more legal
and more ethically consistent yes
we didn't like cut off right there in
the clip
you want me to play it again
didn't it cut off right there you know
the context for why he said that
um
oh [Β __Β ]
um i mean i don't know the exact context
but i do know it's cut off like you
could
i mean
let me let me ask you uh let me ask you
i don't even know how to put this on
let me let me read you something from
walsh's discord if you need the evidence
i can send it to you from disney can you
tell me the context of this where this
would be uh permissible
well wait if the sex spot is just a toy
then why does it matter if an adult
[Β __Β ] a kid robot
um
so
i mean he's probably being edgy i mean
is that it
now he's talking about lolly sex bots is
that just edgy
um
i mean
i mean technically like
if you uh
he's not wrong like if you have a uh
like it's not harming a children that's
that's why the cake is funny i think
wait there's nothing wrong with that
i mean if you're if it's not going to
lead you to harming actual children if
you're just like looking at like you you
don't think that the fundamental
pathology
of pedophilia
is something inherently [Β __Β ] up
and you want it you think that you think
it's okay if there's actually a
pedophile
acting upon their uh
fantasies as long as no children are
involved
as long as no children get hurt yeah
i'm anti-children getting raped so as
long as you're actually cultivating
you're promoting the culture of children
eventually getting hurt well yeah yeah
if we if we're promoting something that
would lead to children getting raped i
wouldn't that of course it would happen
what do you think the fantasy comes from
um
you people you [Β __Β ] people and by you
people i mean you left this you boycott
all media dave chappelle video games for
the slightest smallest [Β __Β ] right it's
not politically correct but you're okay
with robots that are made in the image
of children for people to uh have sex
with yeah if it leads to you you're okay
if it leads to less children getting
raped then yeah
are you okay i think it just speaks for
itself no i really just think this
speaks for itself are you not for things
that give children i am 100
against pedophilia in all its
manifestations
i mean i think every pedophile belongs
in prison
oh i'm at the minimum
at the minimum
i mean whether they harm children or not
that's kind of [Β __Β ] um
anyone who has pedophilic feelings who
has uh engaged in any type of
pornography whether it's involving real
people or not anything of that matter
should belong in prison
so
um
i mean
all culture which promotes the abuse of
children should lead to criminal charges
that's my view
um
i mean yeah if it leads to the abusive
children yeah
all culture
no which gives expression and fantasizes
about the abusive children should be
criminalized
um
i think if you're fantasizing about what
[Β __Β ] i believe
a [Β __Β ] believable thing right
unfucking believable i care about
outcomes when it comes on like [Β __Β ]
believable oh okay so unbelievable dave
chappelle dave chappelle can't tell
jokes on netflix but this isn't allowed
right
okay what do you think about dave
chappelle
what do i think about dave yeah should
he should was netflix responsible in
giving him a platform
um were they responsible in giving him a
platform i mean yeah that's like
objective yeah
it's okay
with you're asking are they were they
responsible i mean yeah they were no
were they was it a good thing you agree
with their decision the black the hosts
just hang yeah
um yeah sure i don't i don't think like
these types of things should be
prevented from being on netflix
okay
what about
uh what about um
white supremacists on twitch or on uh
youtube what about them
um i think as a as long as they're not
um like contributing to some type of
like
advocation for harm uh i'm i'm not
really one for like silencing people
what if they just okay what if they just
want to fantasize about it like what if
there's a game on steam where white
supremacists want us fantasize about
committing hearts of iron for
no were they for example the game hatred
and games where people fantasize about
committing highness acts of violence
against minorities would you would you
be okay with steam having that on their
platform
i mean yeah it's fine you okay with that
yeah it's called call of duty
that's what the game does yeah
that's not
[Β __Β ] punching people so you're okay
with the steam game like uh ku klux klan
role-playing game
um
i mean yeah sure you okay with it
you would not protest have an issue
i mean i might be like that's a little
rude but
what about if it was against sexual
minorities
wait just second what the [Β __Β ]
are you playing music in your background
no
okay i just got some like epic battle
music from somewhere i don't know where
it came from
what if it was uh against like sexual
amount like transgender people and stuff
you would not have a problem with it if
they're like if it's a game
um so i mean i would have a problem with
it
so if okay during how you're doing wait
i just gave you an example of a clan
role-playing game where you're attacking
racial minorities and black
there's no type people like outside
consequences for these things so like if
you ask me no there's no such thing as a
vacuum everything is related
sure so it not in a vacuum yeah i'd
probably not be okay okay so steam i'm
not talking about a hypothetical world
i'm talking about now are you are you
listening to something no i'm not i'm
talking about now
on steam
now like right now right not a
hypothetical vacuum on steam
are you okay with uh uh nazi and ku klux
klan and this kind of violent stuff
um now just write how it is how it is
now
am i
if they made a game out of it yeah um
yeah i'd probably be not really for that
okay so when vows talks about how he
can't wait for there to be uh or how
sorry he anticipates
that um if you really want to f children
wait 20 years for vr lollyporn and don't
tell anybody you use it you said you
kind of agreed with him about the robots
and the vr porn
did your mind change or what because you
said you agreed with him
well i
um
i'm trying to figure out how the best
way to phrase this is
[Music]
i
agree with him in the sense that like
if that is
something that would
prevent you
from
going out and like harming
uh wait but that's not okay hold on hold
on hold on
however we're not talking we're not
talking about that we're talking about
here and now
we're talking about
future sex robots because it's tech
listen your original argument is that
technically shut up shut up your
original argument was not about the
consequences leading to less harm you
said since children are not being harmed
in the consumption of this media
minorities including trans people are
not being harmed in the consumption of
this violent video game hypothetically i
was talking about yeah and yeah you
managed to say you managed to claim that
you're against it right but when it
comes to pedophile content you're for it
it's okay
so in the background of these issues so
like if we're if we have a game
um
so the problem with like these like
situations since they're not in a vacuum
you have to like uh figure out what
would be the things that would happen
from these types of situations and in
some situations i don't know i don't
know what happens when pedophiles watch
wall-e porn um but that's not what you
said before are you walking back your
position now because your position
before was that since children are not
involved there's no issues i thought we
were talking about in a vacuum but
there's no way you said since no we're
not no one mentioned the vacuum so i
don't grant you that assumption okay no
one granted nobody was talking about a
vacuum i don't mean
when you say like hey um if you
had um a train
and uh you could switch the train tracks
so that you'd kill one person instead of
five people would you do it and then i
in a vacuum i would think oh yeah i
would do that however if we actually
think about like the situation and
everything like me going and doing that
xenon xena xena you're trying to weasel
your way out so let me walk it back to
you i read out a quote by wash well wait
if the sex box is just a toy then why
does it matter if an adult [Β __Β ] a kid
robot
we did not talk about a vacuum we didn't
talk about the real world consequences
we talked about none of those things all
you said was that yeah i agree with him
because an actual child is not involved
and we went through the course of
argumentation on that basis then i gave
you examples of violent video games
where minorities including trans people
are not involved obviously it's just a
video game and there's you're committing
acts of violence against them and you
managed to muster the ability to say
that you would be against this well why
initially did you say you had no issue
with what was said so
because i'm assuming in this interaction
that there's um like if
the pedophiles like watching wally porn
um then they're not going to be
going out and like raping kids because
they can do something that wouldn't harm
kids but if they just want to harm kids
um and this is like leading them towards
that then yeah that's kind of [Β __Β ] and
i wouldn't want to wait wait hold on why
didn't you say that oh i'm i'm just
assuming that uh you know you didn't say
that you said because kids are not
involved there's no issue
[Music]
um
you said you agreed with vox
because you agreed with the sentence i
said don't talk about arming kids i said
specifically it's because it's not
harming kids you said that way after
when i cornered you and it's because
it's not harming kids i'm pretty sure in
this no that's not what you said
you said because it's not harming kids
in concern
so that's what i meant but then when i
said for example this is what let me
explain to you what actually happened
since your memory is so short what i
actually said in response was you're
promoting
[Β __Β ] up i don't really care what i said
and
you're trying to [Β __Β ] cover up what
happened i am the one who said oh so you
want to foster a culture that's going to
lead people to commit kids oh no in that
case no i just agree with the opposite i
agree that it's not going to so when
only when i brought up the fact that
it's a culture that promotes pedophilia
which is self-evident fact you decided
to adopt the opposite position but
for example in the case of games where
you're committing violence against
minorities
all of a sudden it's common sense that
we should all agree that oh if you're
doing it in a video game you're
promoting a culture that fosters
violence against minorities then why
isn't it that when you have sex robots
you're not promoting a culture that
promotes violence against children why
is it okay to have pedophile content as
long as children aren't involved but not
content that is promoting violence
against minorities why do you have this
this why is it that one is okay not the
other
okay it's because
um i don't think that the ideation
towards like wanting to kill minorities
is the same as like wanting to have sex
with why not
because i think um the ideology of
like nazism and white supremacy sure i
think these things are more of
i think these things
are more
because they want to see minorities dead
um and not because they get like
satisfaction that's not necessary
so like and they don't i don't think
they get satisfaction from it
i don't think there's a visceral racial
hatred underpinning that ideology from
which they do get satisfaction
so do i have to just merely add the rape
can i
okay so in both situations um
if you if you're gonna say something
that i already anticipate i'm gonna cut
you off
by the way yeah that's fine and if you
if i don't uh
i don't finish i'm gonna cut you off
so
um
okay
when we so there's two different
variables there is wanting to
actually do it just because you like you
want to do the thing and then getting
pleasure from seeing
the thing uh so
yeah i already anticipate your [Β __Β ]
argument shut the [Β __Β ] up you're saying
pathological sexual satisfaction is not
inherently ideological it's a
physiological pathological sexual
satisfaction so yeah first of all that's
making two assumptions one the
assumption that violent racial hatred
and violent hatred against minorities is
not fundamentally pathological in a
psychological sense every psychoanalyst
would disagree with you on that point
the second assumption that you're making
which is other analysis
the second assumption you're making
which is fundamentally [Β __Β ] wrong is
that all i would have to do according to
your own logic if we live in this la la
land according to which there is no
psychological pathology of satisfaction
and enjoyment which is not merely
ideological in a racial hatred against
minorities is add the variable of okay
what if it's just a simulator where you
can rape women i'm an incel misogynist
simulator where people massage incels
have fantasy of being able to rape women
commit violence against women okay and
so i can i can make all of these um
all of these examples the last one is
qualitatively different so you're not
going to put it under one umbrella okay
the last one is qualitatively different
because the last point i'm going to make
the last one doesn't i'm going to make
it any ideology behind it it's just
amazing to make all of these
okay i'm going to make all of these
um
all these situations clear okay so
um i think
it's okay
uh
for you to if it's like let's say you
have a desire to do something and then
whenever you do if you could do that
thing but nobody gets hurt
um that desire would like go away
um and like for for the period of time
and you would be like um
that problem would be resolved including
violence against trans people in a video
game yeah sure if you have like some
type i'm not saying by the way for the
audience i'm not saying in a video game
like oh i just get like i'm saying like
a steam game yeah piece of media
yeah
um well so i'm not sure if like these
things should be like held to the public
if they're for these types of things
because i think that can have some like
negative implications but oh [Β __Β ]
it's not going to lead to any harm to
children at all in the long term
yeah why are you now so wait but you
intuitively
intuitively intuitively you understand
children
if it doesn't ever lead if it doesn't
ever lead yeah but intuitively speaking
you know that's not true for a video
game where you're engaging in violence
against trans people intuitively you
seem to understand
no no
intuitively you seem to be able to
understand that in that case of course
it's gonna have real world implications
because
the reason is because in this situation
um i'm assuming that the person who
wants to
uh
like kill the trans people in the video
game actually wants to kill trans people
in real life and is like going to do it
why not
um
well yeah however in both situations
um if
the person who's like killing the trans
person in the video game if that's going
to help them um not kill trans people in
real life i would want them to i would
rather them have a video game where they
can kill trans people okay sure so why
do you make the intuitive assumption
that the pedophile is not going to lead
to an outcome of more children being
harmed but in the case of a trans game
it is going to lead to more trans people
being harmed because i think the um
the difference between these is like
pedophiles usually
they're um they just have like an
attraction to something so there's no
ideology involved right yeah i don't
think i don't think there's like a
belief there so
okay
then let's since we're not gonna agree
on that point let me give you something
that you probably should be able to
agree on why is it that there's ideology
involved in a rape simulator then what
if a guy is just horny and wants to and
has a kink where he fantasizes about
committing sexual assault against women
yeah and then he goes into like a rape
simulator or whatever yeah on steam in
it and uh
and this is like closed off to the
public no it's a public just like the
pedal [Β __Β ] it's a problem okay i
wouldn't want it to be public in in
every single situation
yeah i don't i i
can the pedal robot can be public
no
but but valsha said well wait if the sex
spot is just a toy then why does it
matter if an adult [Β __Β ] a kid robot
when did he say that it's gonna be
public on steam
it's a sp
how else does this robot be obtained
um you could go to like a therapist to
like um
like you think voss is implying this is
a therapist uh if form a therapy the
therapist i mean it might be
well that's an assumption
but let's also an assumption to assume
it's going to be like a public thing on
steam that everyone's going to be listen
listen i want to explain to you the
actual context even though it would be
just as disgusting and highness we can
go down that route i want to just
clarify so you can't gaslight the
audience about what actually happened
bosch was implying in his discord thing
that it is completely morally uh
neutral nothing morally wrong it's just
a bot doesn't matter if an adult [Β __Β ] a
kid robot because it's just a toy and
you said you agreed on that there was no
implication about therapy there was no
implication that this is going to be
closed off from the public yeah he said
he said point blank period if there's a
sex bot an adult is [Β __Β ] it and it's
a child uh
it looks like a child or whatever
there's nothing wrong with it because
it's just a bot it's just a robot it's
just a toy right
yeah this is well so
yeah in that situation also he never
made an assumption that it is going to
be public so you can't like assume that
yes there is listen unless he wants okay
the burden of proof would have been on
him to clarify that it shouldn't be
public because
if he didn't want it to why would he
assume it's not going to be public why
are you assuming it is going to be
public because point blank period he
said there's nothing wrong with it and
the reasoning he gave wasn't because
it's therapeutic or because maybe it's
reduced maybe i disagree with the
reasoning
is that it's just a toy
the reasoning
is that it's just a toy you may be
researching uh medical stuff logic is
not your strong suit he said it's just a
toy he didn't say it's because it's
fantastic otherwise he would have
qualified why there's nothing wrong with
it
are toys inherently therapeutic unless
is that what you mean that we should
assume toys are inherently therapeutic i
think the contrary is true i think the
contrary is true toys when most people
talk about toys they're talking about
something that you just get publicly you
don't get it from a doctor to be for
play for pleasure
okay so in that case i disagree with
vasha's that part of oh oh oh
so
we have to go through all of them
we have to go through all this great
from a common sense perspective you know
what you [Β __Β ] said you know what you
[Β __Β ] meant i just caught you with
your tail between your [Β __Β ] legs and
then you walked in
you're a [Β __Β ] power not only are you
a creep not only are you a pedophile
apologist you're a [Β __Β ] coward
[Β __Β ] coward yep that's me yeah you
are a [Β __Β ] car why don't you have a
seat
why don't you have a seat right over
there have a seat
okay
have a seat right over there once you
have a seat
this is bolsters community by the way
ladies and gentlemen this is the people
that are making these reddits about me
this is them
caught in 4k out in the open this is who
they are
can you can you listen
to whatever can you listen after you
walked it back like a [Β __Β ] coward you
know what you originally said you know
what you meant you know what you said
that you agree with vosh you know
exactly what was [Β __Β ] implied nowhere
were anyone talking about therapy
nowhere could you justify
selling this idea to us that oh i
thought it was implied it was gonna be
for therapy i thought it was implied it
was gonna be for therapy i thought it
was implied that it was gonna be in a
vacuum i thought it was implied no you
[Β __Β ] didn't there's no indication
anywhere on [Β __Β ] planet earth
anywhere under the [Β __Β ] night sky
anywhere under tengri's blue sky that
[Β __Β ] there was that [Β __Β ]
implication you agreed with vosh point
blake and period and you walked it back
after i broke down why you're a [Β __Β ]
hypocrite after giving you the example
of a steam game
simple as that
um
so
um
so what i was saying in the very
beginning
was that i think
it's
why are you shaking
okay
so um what i was saying
in the
uh
i didn't assume it was going to be like
a public thing because fascia's
statement never said i want this to be
like a public application let's see okay
so you you thought it was going to be on
mars because he didn't
specify it was going to be on earth i
didn't think it was because it was going
to be on mars wait but he didn't specify
it wasn't going to be on mars so we
should just roll with the assumption
that's what you thought right okay but
these we should just believe you right
if i say oh i thought volleyball it was
going to be on mars
this is if you say this thing is okay i
am going and then i say yeah this thing
is okay in this scenario
you don't qualify under what conditions
not just agree with it when it's not
being qualified
well if you oh okay look if you want to
uh could you're a liar you didn't agree
with boss's original taste well as long
as there's no children involved it's
okay then you kept adding qualifiers
because they kept cornering you and
showing and exposing the pedal nature of
vosh's community
um
file vows community auto file vgg
profile vgg add no file
okay
um
i don't [Β __Β ] yo
yeah
yeah keep dancing keep having fun keep
having your [Β __Β ] fun i am having fun
yeah keep having your [Β __Β ] fun
by the way you have solidarity with
those workers at netflix
wait am i outside right there no you
have solidarity with them
do i have solidarity with them i mean if
they want to protest they can
well they're all going to get fired
um
that sucks
too bad they're all going to get fired
what does this have to do with anything
yeah how how much longer do you think
the american people are going to take
their intelligence of being comprised a
bunch of [Β __Β ] pedophiles
how long before we start passing laws
putting people in prison for advocating
for the things you involved do
um i would hope never because we have no
it's gonna happen
it's gonna happen
do you not believe in the freedom of
speech [Β __Β ] no not when it comes to pedo
[Β __Β ] no
i don't believe in free speech in that
case no
no i don't
it really is the red fascism
it's the uh
anyone who's not a pedophile they call a
fascist nowadays
okay so i don't i don't care your insult
bounces off me
like bullets bounce off superman
yeah
you've called me a pedophile this entire
pedophile supporter pedophile apologist
pedophile adjacent and voss is a [Β __Β ]
creep who's in all
we have everything but the proof that
he's one himself everything but that
all arrows
indicate one direction all arrows point
in one direction
all arrows point
everything but absolutely
we have everything but absolute proof
is this
is this what you do you just like scream
at people and then like
um
i don't know dude
how long is that destiny reenactment
gonna help you cope
gonna help you cope
for how long you're gonna keep coping
pretending to be destiny what's the one
name
where it has the the one guy with like
the
um the crying thing behind a mask and it
says you're coping you're coping
[Β __Β ] out of my [Β __Β ] vc
biggest [Β __Β ] copium i ever seen in my
[Β __Β ] life