Haz reacts to Vaush vs Jackson 🚀 Infrared Content Catalog

let's go can you hear me

yeah I can hear you just fine can you

hear me

yeah a little bit loud let me adjust my

bum can you talk again

I'm streaming on my end too so I gotta

all right I think we should be good

audience it's not good

how are you doing good how are you

doing wonderfully all right no reason to

uh continue with the pleasant tees are

you ready to get into it

yeah I mean as you know there's a lot to

get into so

um I guess I'll just start off by saying

uh for for the audience who doesn't know

me I'm a relatively new streamer

political streamer I've been doing this

for about a year and a half my name's

Jackson and uh I am I'm not a journalist

but I've been following this story very

closely and I was frustrated by some of

the things that you said on your stream

regarding both the general findings of

the opcw investigators and of my own

views on the subject so that's why we're

here we're going to talk about it

I'm sure all right so a little bit of a

preamble before we get into this I

suspect this is probably going to be a

waste of time because I have a lot of

experience debating Holocaust deniers I

know that generally speaking when people

form their opinions based on

conspiracism it's usually not because

they actually have a vested interest in

the facts uh it's usually because they

have like a set of biases that existed

beforehand and they'll engage in like

selective reasoning to adopt any beliefs

that they can use to post-talk justify

those you know pre-existing biases I

guess we'll see how much of a waste of

time this turns out to be so I wasn't

that familiar with the specifics on this

incident until I guess last night holy

[ __ ] what an idiot dude prepping right

yeah I'm not familiar with like every

conspiracy theory out there I also don't

know much about like Alex Jones claims

about Sandy Hook sometimes you gotta

like pack that stuff in it's also like

completely irrelevant to anything a

progressive should care about so but I

looked into it and the information in

favor of my side was so overwhelming and

so compelling that by the end of this

conversation I legit ultimately believe

that you're continuing to disagree with

me can be attributed only to mental

illness or willful dishonesty I actually

believe like At first I thought like oh

God this is going to be like a really

confusing and granular issue where like

it's going to be really tough to

understand but the more I looked into it

I realized that this is such an

unbelievably difficult issue to contest

the general narrative on that like wow

you know but again like I'm coming into

this with a little bit of bias because

I've I've interacted with a lot of

members of the broader like Gray Zone uh

Jimmy Dore community and I have let's

say like a negative opinion of them you

know

um but I don't know maybe you'll change

my mind we've you know had some pleasant

interactions I guess I'm open to that

[ __ ] them up being adjusted so you

wanted to talk about the opcw report uh

the chemical weapons attack on Duma or

alleged chemical weapons attack and all

of the implications and possibilities

there to four is that correct

yes

okay wonderful yeah we don't have to

talk about anything besides that do you

mind if I give some initial context

though this isn't something my audience

is that familiar with I want to explain

like the broader context if possible

happily go for it

yeah okay so Bashar al-assad is a brutal

tyrannical far-right dictator

um and he has over the course of the uh

Syrian Civil War engaged in many acts of

barbarity against his own population

both political and Military uh which has

led to the death of nearly a hundred

thousand civilians attributed to him the

displacement of millions there have been

dozens of chemical weapons attacks that

have been attributed to him and verified

by a number of international

organizations designed to engage in

peacekeeping and find facts so the uh to

fake all of like those chemical weapons

attacks beforehand would be like to to

assemble the evidence in such a way as

to form dozens of false flags that

tricked so many orgs internationally

it's it's like unfathomable so there's a

history of the use of chemical weapons

by Assad's regime wait wait wait sorry

before you continue it's just important

to get some of the facts right and by

the way I know you labeled me as an

Assad Defender on your uh on your stream

title I I have no problem saying that

Assad is a brutal dictator and I do not

defend him what I'm here to do is defend

the whistleblowers and the investigators

who were sent on behalf the opcw into

Duma but what I will say is that you

said a bunch of uh International groups

and activist groups had confirmed

weapons attacks that's a pretty broad

statement this is actually the first

time that the opcw has ever been able to

go on the ground in Syria and

investigate a chemical weapons attack

and that's why this is so important so

um all other previous uh chemical

weapons attacks uh have usually had uh

you know key evidence that was passed

through these Rebel groups these Saudi

funded Al-Qaeda linked Rebel groups like

jayashal Islam

um and in addition to that a lot of

these previous attacks have been

contested

right uh so we're beginning already so

first of all you can't really claim that

you're not defending Assad when you're

making the claim that numerous and

highly credentialed accusations against

hassad with regards to him engaging in

crimes against humanity are fake like

that'd be saying like I'm not defending

Hitler I just think that Auschwitz

birkenau Was A POW Camp and the deaths

there were the product of like Allied

bombing train lines so they couldn't get

food there

um I mean this isn't really what we're

here to talk about if you're one I

encourage like any audience all he does

is

compare people to Nazis that's all he

does estimations on the use of chemical

weapons that range from ayali 32 is the

conservative number that most people use

there are some orgs that claim that it's

in the hundreds uh there have been many

International organizations that have

directly observed the use of torture

unlawful killing the bombing of

hospitals the indiscriminate the

shelling of Civilian areas Collective

punishment the slaughter of political

dissidents the deprivation of food and

water the destruction of key

infrastructure so we agree Assad is not

a good guy so we agree so

I just want to make sure we're in

agreement on that before we continue

yeah I saw it I saw it as a bad guy it's

just you were just saying like actually

these things haven't been confirmed

before and they were all passed through

no no no no no no no no no no no no no

no no not all the things that you just

said I said that a lot of the key

chemical weapons attacks have been

contested by very reputable sources for

example one of the most notable uh that

the U.S had indicated was a major major

chemical weapons attack the alleged

chemical weapons stack and ghouta was

actually uh it was contested by a number

of individuals it was contested by uh

Seymour Hersh in the London Review of

Books and in addition to that

um actually Barack Obama confirmed that

these reports were false of alleged

chemical weapons attack when James

Clapper told him that the evidence of

theolog Syrian chemical gas attack and

Guta was not a slam dunk and they

shouldn't act upon it

so saying that evidence is not a slam

dunk and should not be act upon is not

the same as repudiating the existence of

those attacks to begin with well no no

no no you alleged that the definitively

wait no wait please you allege that

Assad without a doubt perpetrated all of

these attacks that's what you said no it

did not wait I did not say that yes he

did what it said is that there was under

wait please wait hold on what I actually

said was that there was undeniable

evidence which has been corroborated

across many International peacekeeping

organizations that the use of chemical

weapons has taken place in Syria the

majority of which have been attributed

to Assad for many of these chemical

weapons attacks it is logistically

impossible to determine who actually did

it we don't always have the ability to

factually determine the exact

circumstances that led to backtrack and

decontamination in an area however a lot

of these are very heavily like uh

inferentially like attributable to Assad

and I think I'll also five percent of

them tend to be I'll also add before we

continue on here that

um a lot of these key organizations that

you are citing uh like Human Rights

Watch for example I'd imagine is one of

the ones that you'd cite for uh you know

claiming that there are all these

chemical weapons attacks

um they all differ in how many actually

took place based on the evidence and the

validity of it so some of these groups

allege that there were over 300 chemical

weapons attacks that took place some

allege that there are only 30 and even

in those 30s that there's still huge

problems with with the amounts that uh

the evidence that's used to suffice the

claim that Assad was responsible so I I

think we can both you know argue our

heads off on these previous chemical

weapons attacks but what we came here to

talk about today was the opcw cover-up

scandal in Duma

a cover-up Scandal is a pretty strong

term but uh anyway I think it's that's

what the whistleblowers

when pointing out the fact that there

was a tremendous amount of evidence of

previous chemical weapons usage by Assad

in Syria you instantly left to his

defense wait hold on it's always alleged

um because he denies all of it no if if

you instantly not enough evidence then

then it's not alleged

it's interesting that you don't call

yourself an Assad Defender when your

apparent defense of the regime extends

beyond the one incident where we have

whistleblowers what extends broadly to

the entire range of information we have

on the subject again this is supposed to

be about and conspiracism is always like

a rabbit hole because again I've argued

with Holocaust Den Iris did you know

there was one investigation from the Red

Cross that found that there were no

deaths at this Camp back in 1933 that's

curious like you can go down to forever

but if you want you can take a look at

the use of chemical weapons in the

Syrian Civil War I'll put it this way

okay stay on topic has been so

significant and so extensive and so well

documented that to fakely to falsely

attribute all these instances to Assad

would require a greater false flag

operation than literally any other

effort in human history I would believe

that as readily as I would believe that

the existence of Auschwitz birkenau was

faked by like Jewish American

journalists who like why do you keep

bringing that up and took photos of like

a summer camp and put like iron rot

fences around it to convince this is all

he knows how to talk about he only talks

about Nazis that's it if you want but

again we can only like go into so much

so your claim

oh God we haven't even gotten to what

happened okay so on April 7th in 2018 in

the city of Duma which is about 10

kilometers away from Damascus

um there was a a Syrian Rebel occupation

of the city this occupation had taken

place for about six years at that time

the city was under heavy shelling at the

time from Assad's forces

and um then the following things

allegedly took place

two uh mi8 helicopters which are used by

the Syrian Air Force

dropped uh chemical weapon payloads on a

neighborhood in the city of Duma uh

releasing chlorine gas I think yes

allegedly which killed about 32 people

uh led to the displacement and injury of

hundreds or uh more which were then they

went off to hospitals and what have you

um and keep in mind that the key

investigators who are on the ground in

Duma uh they they can prove Beyond a

reasonable doubt that the helicopters

that were claimed to have been seen did

not drop any of the cylinders that were

seen on the sites so what you're saying

is incorrect but we haven't gotten to

that yet okay we'll get to that don't

worry so anyway here is the evidence I

suppose on my side

um so here's what we'll have would have

needed to have taken place but wait is

your content is your suggestion that

this was a false flag the chlorine bombs

were dropped by U.S or Syrian Rebel

forces or is your contention the same as

the Russia and Syrian governments that

there was no chlorine gas released

there's no definitive uh you know

outline as to what actually took place

yet because the investigation was

stopped the the key fact-finding mission

team members were forced out of the team

and they weren't able to complete their

investigation so if you read in the

actual uh it's also incorrect but I'm

asking you no no no it's not incorrect

happen listen vosh you're the one who

spent all last night on Wikipedia

reading about this what do you mean

finish my point let me finish my point

so

um if you read the first draft report

you will find that they left open

multiple different Avenues or

opportunities so what could have

actually taken place in Duma and what

was responsible

for the alleged attack

okay so the argument by the Russian and

Syrian governments was that there was no

attack that chlorine gas was never

released in that area is that an opinion

that you share or do you believe that

the Russian Syrian governments are lying

or otherwise working off incomplete

information according to the

investigators who are on the ground

there is the potential that there was a

non-chemical related attack

a non-chemical related attack yes

because we both agree that that there

were there were over 40 people who died

correct

that is correct so we're like bombs were

dropped or like what kind of attack the

city was being shelled at the time are

you saying that it was like artillery

fire I'm not they they weren't able to

identify that you can see very clearly

though that the people uh who were

filmed at at the scene had uh you know

foam protruding from their mouths

um but they weren't able to identify

that and I'm not going to act like me

being some YouTube streamer has any more

information on the subject than what

they have provided but they did leave

open the Avenue that uh there was a

non-chemical related attack and they

also said they weren't able to find any

sort of outlying evidence that suggested

that there was a chemical attack

um that wasn't sarin or chlorine

so the term leaving open the Avenue in

this case means nothing when it comes to

investigations like this especially ones

that are done weeks after the actual

attack it's almost impossible to

deductively prove anything the most you

can do is use infidence to inferentially

try to arrive at the most likely

conclusion

hold on wait well no no you just made it

claim so I'm going to refute that you

made a claim so I'm going to refute that

um if you if you believe that there's

that you know there there's uh no

evidence to suggest any of this stuff

and considering it's all open Avenues

then uh we're you know we're left in the

dust and who knows what's going to

happen who know what who's know what

happened

um why don't I said okay re reset what

you just said then

I said that when it comes to

investigations on the ground that are

done weeks after an alleged chemical

weapons attack is very rarely possible

to definitively prove anything Eagles

winning by the way so a possibility or

leaves room four doesn't really mean

much in this case because potentially

they could leave room for anything

that's no no it doesn't because it makes

such investigation it doesn't because

they had indicated that it was highly

unlikely that chlorine was responsible

for this attack uh it was found in there

was like chlorinated uh you know we

haven't gotten to the specific claims

yet I okay so we'll save that for later

we'll save that for later we'll save

that for later so if you believe that

that you know there there's no way that

we if you think it was a false flag or

not I already answered that question

vosh I literally already answered that

question the problem Ross is really

talking about memes your political Camp

aren't just saying uh we have questions

he's not a debate well you're debating

me you're not you're not debating people

in my political Camp you're debating

there have been

strong definitive claims made by the

Syrian and Russian governments that

there was no chemical weapons attack do

you share their opinion that there was

no chemical weapons attack

there's no evidence of a chlorine gas

attack they left open the opportunity

that there was a non-chemical related

attack this is logic that's what the

investigators there's no evidence you're

not making an absolute claim it could

have been responsible for the open

Avenue of a non-chemical related attack

the investigation was compromised by

opcw Executives before that could have

taken place

okay we'll get to that don't worry okay

so your argument then is that there was

no chemical weapons attack but there may

have been a conventional attack no

that's that's not my that's not what I

just said

okay would you mind repeating because I

need you to commit to a position because

if your position here is we have

questions then I said even have a

position to attack and I'll just like

listen so gosh this is this is the third

time I'm going to have to answer this

question the inspectors told us that

there was no chlorine gas release that

caused this attack that's what the

evidence shows us the first interim

report

or the first interim draft report the

draft report do you mean the unreleased

report that was uh not representative of

the entire opinion of all those present

the one that was drafted by the uh what

was it investigator B the Alex character

the one that was later responded to in

internal emails that weren't released by

Wikileaks until six months afterwards

that proved there were scientific

reasons why many of the claims made in

the draft report were contested that

report we'll get to the Integrity of

Inspector B and I know you have

questions about that but let's save that

for later because you're jumping around

right now so my my I'm not trying to

talk about any inspectors yet I was just

asking if you thought there was a false

flag attack because I need to know which

wrong look all right all right for the

fourth time Bosh for the fourth time

what I'm saying is there's no evidence

that chlorine gas was released from the

cylinders which is what the U.S alleged

was responsible for this attack okay so

you you got that right you want to

repeat it for me so I know you can hear

me also the the op pcw in their report

that the organization we're talking

about and the final report but the opcw

investigators who actually were on the

ground in Duma investigating this they

found no evidence that chlorine gas was

released from the cylinders okay

so where do you know that exactly from

the reports that they did

really yes

because the person that you're referring

to this Alex the one okay we'll get to

the Integrity of the of the inspectors

later I know you want to jump around uh

but I want to answer your question

answer your question because this is the

fourth time I've had to repeat myself so

that's the first part of my answer the

second part of my answer is that they

left open the Avenue that there was a

non-chemical related attack that took

place they didn't allege who's

potentially responsible for that for

that potential non-chemical related

attack and they also left open the

potential for there to have been a

chemical attack with a chemical that was

not identified on the scene though they

noted that that was highly unlikely so

you're so your argument the reason why

like you and people who agree with you

call people like U.S state Department

chills who want war with Syria is

because you have the incredibly bold

position that there was a possibility

that some other explanation may have

been left over open in term draft report

that was later contested through

Internal Documentation that was Kept

Secret from the public for months and

then released in full and responded to

in a final report your claim is that in

an initial draft there was a possibility

of there maybe being another case you

don't have any stronger claims to make

than that what I'm alleged there is

damage consistent with the drop of those

oh no no no we'll get to that we'll get

to that out of their mouths we'll get to

that explosion of the metal or the

hydrochloric acid or the hypo um

if you just want to throw out stuff

really if you want to throw out stuff

really quickly without actually going

through each point I can do the same I

can do the exact same thing I won't give

you any opportunities

so let's just go over it then okay so

let's let's so wait wait wait wait

before we do before we do there's one

last thing I want to say because you

continue to say you continue to say that

the inspection is [ __ ] him [ __ ]

him the original draft reports as you

cite it and you you try to insinuate

that because it's a draft it's not valid

even though it was peer reviewed by four

other team members and also none of the

points have been refuted by opcw

Executives in that draft report

by opcw Executives you think they've

been refuted

in internal email documentations they

responded to claims made in that draft

document and the final one included

really passages which addressed concerns

levied by the draft report you're

referring to yes really I would love to

see that because what I reviewed doesn't

mean accepted that's why it wasn't

published

no it wasn't published because they

omitted key information to sharply

deviate from the from the uh findings of

the initial inspectors who are on the

ground in Duma

by initial inspectors are you referring

to Alex because Alex never left his

command posts in Damascus why do you

keep referring to all the people on the

ground in Duma as the people who wrote

that report Alex wrote that report Alex

wrote the report there was a

fact-finding mission team though that

collected all of the information for

that and we will get to the Integrity of

the inspectors later if you want to

because I think that's worth discussing

or we can discuss that right now if

you'd like to no we haven't even gotten

to like the so when we're talking about

conspiracies I find that it's actually

better before digging into the

conspiratorial elements to actually talk

about possible Alternatives okay so you

don't seem to be willing to commit to

the Syrian and Russian narrative on this

particular issue which is fine I mean

you're not like employed by Syria or

Russia that I know of

um but we can talk about the likelihood

of other possible explanations for what

took place there so if it was a

non-chlorine-based attack

why were there 32 or so corpses found

with death markers uh a representative

of death by chlorine poisoning the

foaming at the mouth is caused by the

acids that form when chlorine gas comes

into contact with moisture like moisture

in our throats and in our eyes that's

how they died I can't show these

pictures or videos on stream because

they're highly graphic but there are

videos taken at the time and afterwards

of corpses piled up in these buildings

with death markers that are directly

indicative of the causes of chlorine gas

poisoning were they killed by shells and

then somebody like

spray canned foam in their mouth or like

enough to convincingly like trick medic

crisis teams or how would that have

happened

so

um you just alleged that the the

symptoms of the victims were indicative

of a chlorine attack is that what you're

saying

or the corpses the fact that they were

foaming at the mouth that is absolutely

consistent with the symptoms of chlorine

death and not like trauma or uh like

shelling yes so that being so it will

not cause that so that would be

consistent with a mass chlorine attack

like what we've seen happen in you know

previous world wars where you have huge

clouds of you know chlorine that are

consuming uh regions of you know of War

for hours on end

um it it's not it's not indicative of

what took place here and according to

the toxicologists who are again on the

ground in Duma and who met with some of

the leading international experts on

toxicology one of which was from a NATO

State uh they they found that with

respect to the consistency of The

observed and reported symptoms of the

alleged victims with possible exposure

to chlorine gas or similar the experts

were conclusive in their statements that

there was no correlation between

symptoms and chlorine exposure in

particular they stated that the onset of

excessive frothing as a result of

pulmonary edema observed in photos and

reported by Witnesses would not occur in

the short time period between reported

occurrence of the alleged incident and

the time the videos were recorded

which is interesting because it was

later indicated in criticisms of the

report that came from my side of the

aisle from people who do believe that

this actually took place that no those

conditions can actually take place in as

little as 30 minutes depending on the

concentration of the chlorine gas in the

air now conveniently from my narrative

these bombs were dropped in enclosed

areas these weren't dropped into the

street they were dropped into a roof in

a bedroom meaning that the chlorine gas

exposure was in a highly concentrated

area so there are open Windows there was

an open testimony of a green Cloud

shortly after the dropping of these

canisters now highly dispersed chlorine

gas wouldn't produce visual effects like

that but highly concentrated Hinkle is

so good he's literally the best debater

I've seen yet he's better than me he's

the best debater I've ever seen and

highly contained on the internet I'm

curious what those sources are are those

the white helmets

no those are not the white helmets who

who are they who are those sources

if you'd like you can give me a moment I

can look up the specifics of the witness

testimony okay he's good at debating

facts I I mean I think it's important to

point out that uh the toxicologists who

were reporting on this they did rule out

chlorine gas as I I as I just said

um do you do you happen to know more

than the international uh leading

toxicologists who are reporting on this

this is another uh interesting element

of conspiracism that I like so your

claim is that the opcw reports are

flawed that's the entire claim you're

making here my claim is that the

toxicologists were incorrect you're

making the inaccurate assumption that

the only ways in which the opcw could

possibly be incorrect are against The

Narrative of the Syrian government I'm

not alleging that I'm alleging that the

final report omitted I'm alleging no you

just said that I said something which I

didn't say I'm alleging I'm alleging

that the final report I'm alleging that

the final report omitted key information

that the toxicologists engineering and

Ballistic experts and the fact-finding

member or team members fact-finding

mission team members uh found on the

ground and by omitting that information

they sharply deviated from the findings

of the initial investigators who are on

the ground and used it to paint an

outcome that insinuated that a core

foreign gas attack was responsible when

the toxicologists as I just read you

said that it was not possible

huh so yes you do believe that the opcw

report was inaccurate I believe that

there are I believe they emitted

information okay so that's different

again so wait hold on this is these

that's different I'm contesting right

now essentially when information lines

up in a way that's inconvenient to your

narrative you can explain it away with

internal bias meddling these inspectors

these inspectors are not politically

minded these are international I know

you're upset

he's so [ __ ] uh experts so were all

of the people who found that there was a

clause he's so flowery the opcw was not

the only organization at the ground on

Duna by the way nor at the other

locations all he talks about is

narratives and ideology he doesn't stick

to the facts have already agreed this

was a chemical weapons attack

the U.S expertise World already agrees

with me watch the us would have to rely

on that all right the US the UK and

France

the US the UK and France all pointed to

the opcw to lead the investigation into

this and the investigation omitted key

information that was found by the

information you keep repeating this but

we haven't even gotten to that yet and

what you're saying well you keep

misinterpreting what I'm saying I don't

know if it's because your dad

remember the question that I initially

asked you was how did all of these

corpses with foam at their mouth show up

with deaths that are consistent with the

effects of chlorine gas exposure they're

not I just read to you that the reported

some this is this is according to the

toxicologist that the observed and

reported symptoms of the alleged victims

with possible exposure to chlorine gas

or similar the experts were conclusive

in their statements that there was no

correlation between the symptoms and

chlorine exposure so I don't know why

you keep alleging that they were

consistent with chlorine exposure when

the world's leading toxic toxicologists

have said that they are not what so what

else happened to them

they didn't identify it because they

were forced off of the fact their Force

off the investigation so this is this is

not correct so let's break down some

possibilities here so there's a claim

then that an alternate source of death

might have been the product like

something else might have killed them

what could have killed them that would

have led to there being foam on their

mouths and to demonstrate all of the

symptoms of pulmonary edema keep in mind

the the the the testimony of the

toxicologists was not that these deaths

symptoms were inconsistent with chlorine

gas only that the symptoms demonstrated

rapidly compared to what is expected

with heavy exposure to chlorine gas so

the symptoms are consistent only not

within the time scale the toxicologists

Define no I'm gonna I'm gonna repeat it

I'm gonna I'm gonna repeat it I'm gonna

you you just made a statement you just

made a statement you just made a

statement you just made a statement you

just made a statement you just made a

statement and I'm going to refute that

so you said that it's due to the time

frame I'm gonna repeat repeat the

toxicologist uh you know findings one

more time for you here they said and I'm

not cherry picking here they said that

the experts were conclusive in their

statements that there was no correlation

between symptoms and chlorine exposure

okay that's that's that's the sentence

okay

so we're familiar with the minutes of

this meeting we've already heard you

thank you so well you're just making

stuff up so it's important to repeat

what the inspectors thank you

read the document okay you will find

that the reason why they did so was

because

um the onset of the pulmonary edema uh

was uh was done too rapidly okay it's

not because the frothing at the mouth

wasn't consistent with the effects of a

chlorine gas exposure additionally

here's another quote that's what they

just said though that's what they said

please please

the experts were also of the opinion

that it was highly unlikely that victims

would have gathered in piles at the

center of the respective apartments at

such a short distance from an escape

from any toxic chlorine gas to clean or

air so what's interesting is the

toxicology report said dude why would

people be piled into like a super like

close together like in like you know

internal contained environment with

minimal ventilation when these bombs

were dropped on apartment buildings the

chlorine gas load being dispersed in a

highly contained area this wasn't a

formal report these were minutes from

one meeting the reason why these were

leaked is because this is one specific

set of um of of findings not even

findings necessarily but of assessment

that disagreed with the overwhelming

plurality of evidence found else-wise

this is only one point of a broader

question that I'm asking you by the way

which is how the hell are their corpses

with frothing mouths at this site if

there was no chemical weapon attack

chlorine gas there is evidence for which

will get to later but other nerve agents

there isn't evidence for what else would

have caused it

as the uh as the uh vectors and

whistleblowers noted they would have

been able to uh potentially identify

what was responsible for this had the

investigation not been compromised

and also you continue to say that you

continued

you just said like five different things

so let me continue here thank you you

said that this was a poorly ventilated

building there was there was a massive

gaping hole on the top of the roof there

was open windows and there was multiple

avenues for people to leave the building

and go out into the open where they

would have been able to have fresh air

um the toxicologists pointed out that it

didn't make sense in addition that in

the short time period

in the short time period between the

reported occurrence of the alleged

incident and the time that the videos

were recorded that they would have been

able that they would have had that onset

of excessive frothing or a pulmonary

edema

Jackson the city was under siege but

there were open Windows there were open

Windows please hold on and you hear your

roof get blown out it's your receipt so

you so you acknowledge that there was a

gaping hole in the roof too

this doesn't sound like a very contained

building there were people in the lower

floors of the building all they heard

was the roof get blown out where were

the bodies found gas is heavier than air

it's sank to the lower levels which is

where most of the corpses were found it

was not a highly contained building

there were open Windows there was there

was very clear avenues for people to

leave the building such as doors and

there was a gaping hole in the top of

the building which is where uh in in the

the uh the cylinder was found okay so in

in one of the cases so yes thanks

so wait I know so I I I get this

sometimes when I argue with like wannabe

Jackie Chan's who think they could Kung

Fu their way out of like assault uh if

you're in Syria and your city has been

under shelling from the government for a

long time now you hear your roof get

blown out people are screaming dust is

going down

thank you so much

imperator thank you so much appreciate

it a lot

gas attacks you head to Higher Ground

but the gas was coming from the higher

ground this was a worst case scenario

for the people in the lower levels there

were there was no there was no evidence

that chlorine was released from those

cylinders though so you keep saying that

chlorine sinks you keep saying that

chlorine sinks and that you know they my

claim is that my story is consistent

with an explanation as to why these

people would have experienced the

effects of pulmonary edema quickly

because they were in a contained

environment and because they died in an

area where there would have been minimal

ventilation because chlorine gas travels

downwards it's

not a contained building that will

address shortly all right I'll let you

finish is that all

um uh for that point for that point

yeah okay so how do these corpses get

foam on their mouths so you continue to

say that this was a contained

environment it wasn't there were open

Windows there was a gaping hole in the

roof standards of chlorine I just let

you talk I just let you talk and granted

I've let you talk a lot in this stream

so far so please let me just talk

um there was open Windows there was a

gaping hole in the roof there was doors

that they could have exited and again

the toxicologists pointed out the fact

that it would not make any sense uh

first of all that there was a

correlation between the symptoms and

chlorine exposure in addition to that

they said that the onset of excessive

frothing as a result of pulmonary edema

observed in photos uh would not occur in

the short period of time reported in the

reported occurrence so unless you can

you know can talk concoct the situation

unless you concoction unless you unless

you unless you can concoct a situation

in which these victims were just running

around in in the building and somehow

the windows were uh you know I I mean

there's no evidence that the windows

were shut the windows were open sinks

wait okay I'm not done I'm not done and

then in addition to that there's no

evidence there's no evidence that

chlorine gas exited those cylinders

okay so hold on that's a separate claim

so if chlorine gas was released from

those cylinders the concentration of

that gas and the lower levels of that

building would have been sufficient to

produce the um the effects of pulmonary

edema extremely quickly do you know for

a fact that these toxicologists were

familiar with the limited environment in

which this gas was exposed probably not

because they specifically say in these

minutes that they found it highly

unlikely the victims would have engaged

in the behavior that they then died

engaging in so it seems like the only

thing the toxicologists knew were a

couple of biomedical pieces of

information on the corpses not the

broader context in which they were

killed addition so for them evidence

exists a pulmonary edema taking place

near instantly in severe concentrations

of chlorine gas since chlorine gas so no

no that that depends that depends on the

concentration of chlorine it depends on

the concentration of chlorine that it

was released at all considering that it

was contained within the building and

that it's heavier than air and that the

death took place in the lower level this

is a very strong indication that if

chlorine gas was released it would have

been able to be released in amounts

significant enough to cause pulmonary

edema

toxicologists were working off limited

information that's not that's not an

accurate characterization that is not an

accurate characterization vosh for the

frothing to develop they would have had

to been there for a prolonged period of

time based on the concentration of

chlorine you the the the sources that

you're citing referring to instantaneous

deaths from chlorine exposure are in

world wars where you have massive clouds

of chlorine consuming open warfields and

sinking into trenches where troops are

stationed this is completely different

we had we had we had open roofs open

windows and two cylinders which the the

inspectors which the inspectors which

the inspectors found did not leak

chlorine if you can prove to me how the

inspectors uh or that if you can prove

to me that chlorine came from those

cylinders this would be a different

scenario but the the inspectors the

inspectors could not find that chlorine

came from the cylinders

normally when I talk with guys like you

they start to realize they're out of

their depth and they don't stop talking

because they know every additional point

is another nail in their grave touche

my point we're like 1 20th of the way

through this I did way too much reading

on this to let you get you read you read

Wikipedia you read Wikipedia bellingcat

and and relied on Patrick hillsman in

your DMs for information on this you

should have a very easy time by the way

another thing Holocaust deniers like to

say oh yeah you got your information

from the ADL and from X Goldberg

historian okay what the [ __ ] rather than

just assuming that it's not valid based

on the preconceived biases you have

about their agents okay if I wanted to I

could just scream that you're an RT

agent I'm trying to actually own you

based on evidence well you're wrong that

you're wrong that pulmonary edema would

would develop quickly based on the

circumstances

so again this is the final thing that

I'll say assuming chlorine gas was

released and we'll get to that

um the evidence available is consistent

with the development of pulmonary edema

quickly because the toxicology minutes

report again not a report it was just

minutes like that were cataloged this

wasn't like a formalized report that was

verified these are literally just

minutes from a meeting from people who

didn't have a full understanding of the

info as made evident by the minutes

where they indicated that they couldn't

believe people would engage in the

behavior their corpses were found

engaging in they claimed that pulmonary

edema couldn't be said in that quickly

but the evidence shows that there's

actually plenty of um circumstantial

like surrounding conditions which may

have led to it developing much faster

than three two to four hours possibly

within 30 minutes so with all that said

can we get back to the original question

how did corpses with foaming mouths get

there I would love to get back to that

original question but your premise that

there would be you didn't even answer

your premise your premise your premise

that there would be a rapid onset a

pulmonary edema is completely Reliant

upon the concentration of chlorine okay

yeah we're gonna get to that but we're

only talking about it I can't wait

pulmonary edema being evident in cases

like this obviously we'll talk about the

likelihood of chlorine being released

later but we have to get to this point

by point we're only on this point

because you couldn't answer the question

why are there corpses with foam

you just did answer the question I think

four or five times I gave you my answer

do you remember it did he answer why

there were corpses with foam he doesn't

know he said exactly what the inspectors

on the ground found that how did they

get there I don't want what the

inspectors found because the evidence

sides with me I want your own no one

knows it's the point I don't allege to

have that because because I'm not an

inspector and the inspectors who are

investigating that their fact-finding

mission investigation was compromised

before they could have alleged what was

responsible for something that didn't

happen but there's no just don't look at

any of the corpses with the foaming

mouths guys it didn't happen just don't

look at them all right we can move to

the next one okay that's fine what is he

talking about okay they they wanted to

invest no it's fine no it's fine it's

fine we're only we're just beginning we

have to move faster than this okay so

with that being said what about the

numerous witness reports of the um of

the helicopter uh the Syrian government

was the only agency that had any control

of the airspace over uh Duma the Syrian

Rebel forces just didn't I haven't found

any evidence that they had a functioning

air Air Force in that region so what

about all the um the witnesses who spoke

not only to the opcw claiming this but

also to journalistic organizations that

showed up before the opcw could

what regarding what

the existence of the helicopter the two

helicopters that flew in the air over

Duma the two helicopters that were found

to have deported from the dumare air

base just 15 minutes before they arrived

at that location in Duma And the fact I

mean we could also rope in the fact that

the Damage Done to the two buildings

that have the cylinders dropped in them

were consistent with Damage Done uh by

very heavy cylinders being dropped from

a couple hundred meters

so a few things on that uh first of all

the the opcw investigators found tons of

inconsistencies in the uh testimonies of

the people on scene who you allege to be

uh uh Witnesses of these uh helicopters

these two Russian helicopters

um but what I will say is there it's

possible that there were helicopters

listen listen please listen just let me

finish there is a possibility that there

were helicopters I don't know their

their you know flight routes and on that

given day but what I will say is that it

is highly unlikely that you had two

helicopters flying that close to the

ground in an area that was uh that was

controlled by jayashal Islam which is a

saudi-backed extremist militia group

that had Advanced artillery access that

could have easily you know shot those

two helicopters out of the sky they it

makes no sense that they would have done

that especially considering that they

were just on the bridge

cities

but they're just on the verge of

regaining control of Duma uh jayashal

Islam had already began to uh release a

few of the prisoners earlier that week

on Wednesday so it made it would make no

sense for them to have done that because

they knew helicopter bombings wait first

of all they were currently shelling the

city and second of all helicopter

bombings from the Syrian Air Force take

place constantly sure that's like there

was no way

ongoing reality of the Syrian Civil War

Boss you didn't let me finish so it's

possible that there were helicopters

sure but Ian Henderson's reports on the

ground

found that there there was no evidence

that suggested and that it was

improbable that helicopters actually

dropped the cylinders in Duma we'll get

to Ian Henderson don't you worry buddy

um so I just think it's interesting

think that like one of the claims you

made to discredit the helicopter one was

like uh and why would they even drop

bombs from helicopters anyway when it's

something they've been doing like all

the time for years like just a just like

a reflexive exactly for years

control of this area so as they're

trying to regain control of this area

and then on this day where they knew

they were on the verge of regaining

control uh jayashal Islam had already

indicated that they were about to

negotiate

um a controlled release into it the

idlib province why would they continue

bombing it makes no sense knowing that

if they did if they did at the time if

they did you alleged that there were

chemicals you alleged that there were

cylinders that they were chemical

cylinders you alleged one one claim at a

time are you saying Assad wasn't

shelling Duma at the time you're saying

like why would they helicopter bomb Duma

they were why would they do a chemical

attack at the time like the question

that's what you allege wait we need you

need to answer one point at a time I'm

not letting you run away from that why

I'm not letting you run away from that

either you wouldn't have reason to bomb

the city when they were currently

shelling the city not bomb they use

chemical attack long history of shelling

the city and it's very interesting but

what you allege is far different you

allege that the helicopters drop those

chemical you know alleged chemical

cylinders you're mixing up wait hold on

you're mixing up claims again you're

getting confused

is that not what you alleged is that not

what you alleged is that not where you

left is that not what you like

very soon you don't want to answer the

question there's no wait wait wait is

that how you like you can't wait wait

please don't turn into like I hypocrite

levels of brain dead yet please

let the helicopters drop the cylinders

right

so you claimed that Assad would have no

reason to bomb Duma

engage in a chemical attack boss I said

they would have no reason to to bomb

with chemical cylinders you didn't say

no reason you just said they would have

no reason to send helicopters they have

no reason to bomb with chemical

cylinders which is what you allege

wait no you didn't actually say that you

said they would have no reason to send

helicopters in a bombing run there's a

lesson

helicopters in a bombing run

they did have reason to do that no they

have no reason to drop chemical

cylinders about chemical cylinders yet

we're talking about helicopters okay

hold on so you're saying then that they

did have a reason to send helicopters on

bombing runs not chemical bombing runs

but a bombing run because they were

already shelling the city

Syria the Syrian government had a long

history of shelling Duma in an effort to

regain control but what you are alleging

is that chemical cylinders were dropped

there which has been ruled out by Ian

chemical cylinders yet we're just

talking about the act of bombing with a

helicopter which you said they didn't

have a reason to so again for like the

fifth time do you believe then that

Assad did have reason to bomb with

helicopters considering he was currently

shelling the city just not with chemical

weapons but you do believe he had a

reason to use helicopters to bomb the

city not on chemical weapons but just

with conventional armaments not

necessarily but the allegation is that

those helicopters dropped chemical

cylinders we know that we need can we

take it one claim at a time instead of

you trying to run from this one by

jumping to the next one why would they

not have a reasonable claim here

that helicopters dropped chemical

cylinders into the buildings that is the

principal name by you so the principal

claiming on right now is whether or not

they would even have a reason to bomb

the city so they had a long history of

City they had a lot of reasons

we had a long history of [ __ ] it's a war

yes

they had a long history of they were

currently are you shorting out right now

they were currently on that day April

7th 2018. you know the chemical weapons

are a drastic [ __ ] measures you not

understanding different levels to

attacking Rush cylinders

idiot that is your claim are you broken

do you not know your own art you can't

you need to answer this one and then we

can move to the chemical weapons are

more devastating than conventional would

have had a reason weapons helicopter

sorry over that City not necessarily

didn't but they were shelling the city

at the time not necessarily but your

claim is that they dropped chemicals why

not necessarily why would they not be

willing to bomb the city when they were

currently shelling it and have bombed it

many times before because they were on

the verge of regaining control not

necessarily they could have I don't know

that's not what the investigators were

looking into okay and why did they make

that claim why were they shelling the

city

your claim your claim that we are here

to debate is whether or not those

helicopters dropped chemicals onto

buildings you can't make that serious

claims and then get mad when I call you

out on them if you made the claim you

can still be on the verge of winning and

shelling the city at the same time okay

so let's talk about the chemical

cylinders okay so you're acknowledging

then that the Assad did have

justification or like a reason to send

helicopters to bomb Duma because I'm not

already showing it and he's bombed it

many times before there's not

necessarily not necessarily

well then what then can you use two

different tactics boss what are you just

saying selling is not the same as using

helicopters are you like between his

like legs right now like what why can

you why are you making claims and then

refusing to defend them

because it they they it could have been

I don't know that's not the

investigation and I'm not going to

allege to know this okay but what I will

say let me finish

no no no let me finish it's possible I

don't know I'm not gonna act like I

purport to know this but what I will say

is that uh Syria was on the verge of

regaining control of this area which had

been under control of a saudi-backed

extremist militia group that was

torturing civilians in Duma for years

and years this is just a propaganda run

this has nothing to do with the claims

being made right now no no everything to

do with it because I'm getting to the

key Point here I'm getting to the key

Point here the fact that they had pretty

much you know there was there was people

within jayashal Islam who had indicated

that they were ready to negotiate uh an

exit from Duma into idlib and they had

already released some of the hostages on

Wednesday so there was no reason

because why would they continue that

again it's very possible that they did

continue shelling that's why I say not

necessarily I don't know but why would

they continue shelling if they were on

the verge of regaining control and there

were already voices continuing where

they asked dude if you want to know why

ask Assad they were shelling the city

that's not a statement so Syrian

government doesn't really really that

has nothing to do with your principal

claim though your principal claim is

that these helicopters dropped chemical

weapons that's what we're here to do did

you bring it up

you're the one

yeah

why were there witness reports saying

there were helicopters there watch let's

talk about your allegation that the

helicopters dropped these chemical

weapons I wish Hinkle would just say

that shelling is not the same as using

chemical weapons I wish you would just

say that at the time that the alleged

chemical weapons attack took place like

right over that area I'm not going to

purport the investigators didn't

investigate that and and you can't

purport to know that either but what you

do purport to know is that

suggesting they were paid off

what

oh why did all of those dozens of

witnesses confirm they saw helicopters

drop those bombs on locations two and

four I didn't say that they were paid

off I said that the opcw investigators

were on the ground found inconsistencies

with the witnesses uh on the ground is

there witness testimonies of course

they're going to find inconsistencies

but the overwhelming majority of people

at that area confirmed that they saw

helicopters drop those bombs okay

the ballistic and Engineering experts

were on the ground investigating this

they said that there was no evidence to

suffice that uh the helicopters

definitively dropped those alleged

chemical cylinders into the buildings

and that's your principal claim that's

what I want to talk about are you

referring to Ian Henderson right now yes

Ian Henderson was never there

that that is a false claim what are you

talking about mixing up wait hold on one

second where's the rep where's that

report from the um

wait hold on with respect to

investigator a did you really just say

that Henderson he wasn't there would you

really just say that you really just

said that you're saying it wasn't on the

ground in Duma he was literally gosh he

was literally taking measurements in the

building he was literally taking

measurements he worked off a drawing

that he did off of the actual opcw

reports remember no reason why history

were rejected was because his

measurements were inaccurate

is over off because it's literally over

wrong and they weren't let in fact

actually wrong

pcw no no that's not the official claim

from the opcw that's actually a claim

from that's a claim from bellingcat the

The 0.08 Meters off that's a claim from

Bellingham

image matching software to make that

claim Ian Henderson was on the ground

taking measurements in the building but

you said he wasn't there what are you

talking about you just said I'm not

there wait can I read the report yeah I

said it because I briefly mixed up

inspector a and inspector B it's hard to

keep up with little conspiracy stuff I

corrected myself like two seconds

afterwards I know you're gloating

because this is the closest you're

getting to a w in this conversation but

let's take a deep breath and read this

report okay so this is from the opcw on

Independent investigation into possible

breaches of confidentiality reports okay

and they said with respect to inspectors

huh go on

wait what'd you say go on go on CE you

now come on don't be a coward what'd you

say I was just [ __ ] with you I was

just [ __ ] with you I was like is this

the doctored report but go on uh okay

gotcha very nice you know is this uh is

this from a Goldstein you know very very

common joke are you familiar with from

your kind anyway with respect to uh

inspector a he was not a member of the

fact-finding mission so that's that's a

lie

wait hold on okay described by the

investigators inspector a played a minor

supporting role in the investigation of

the Duma incident and he did not have

access to all the information gathered

by the FFM team including witness

interviews laboratory results and

analyzes by independent experts so

inspector I'm almost done please

although inspector A's assessment

purports to be an official opcw FFM

report on the Duma incident it is

instead a personal document created with

incomplete info and without

authorization so to be clear when you're

saying that an on-the-ground team found

inconsistencies and evidence of a

helicopter dropping a bomb what you're

actually saying is that one guy who

wasn't a part of the fact-finding

mission produced an unauthorized and

incomplete report that didn't when he

didn't have access to the broader

information available to the FFM team so

not a broad team Justin Spector a so I

was prepared that you might make these

claims because these are the claims that

have been leveled by OPC uh W director

General Fernando Arias but they are

completely false and I have images of op

pcw documents that can prove you wrong

but first I just want to Briefly

summarize wait what that were you

alleged that he wasn't a part of the

fact fish fact-finding mission team

um earlier on you alleged that he wasn't

on the ground uh so opcw documents

describe hinder and I'm just briefly

summarizing here but I have all the

links if you want me to send them to you

OPC okay opcw documents describe

Henderson as an FFM member fact-finding

mission team member enlists him among

the mission personnel and add the group

of inspectors and and in the group of

inspectors on the Duma Mission they also

list Henderson in the group of

inspectors on the Duba Mission uh that

he was a part of the team conducting the

technical Secretariat visits and the

office of the director General also

noted uh and I have pictures for all of

this that it would be happy quote happy

if he visits to the cylinders in the

hospital are led by Ian Henderson so

this is this is a debunked claim that

was espoused by the opcw director in

general yes I will but these claims were

espoused by him and they've been

debunked and this is the same guy that

the inspectors are alleging omitted key

information in this investigation and

I'm now going to send you those so if he

was part of the FFM then why did he have

to produce a personal document with

incomplete information and no

authorization the document that he would

release

sorry I'm just trying to send you these

so give me one second

okay wait no hold on please don't send

me grainy screenshots that look like

they could have been from like a World

War One training manual please give me

the actual documents that these are from

foreign

ADP type stuff right here I I'm gonna

need the actual documents these are from

time I do this people are like oh you

just dismiss every source

you asked for the documents and you

don't like the source name while you're

posting these we can review the broader

question which is why so many witnesses

claim that helicopters were present at

the scene

all right okay we're spamming Wikileaks

wait do you have like citations in here

or did you literally just send me 500

pages they should be no no no this is

the first draft interim report you're

just sending me like random [ __ ] didn't

the first draft interim report come out

before Ian Henderson published his

undocumented report wait what was the

timeline sorry sorry sorry wait wait

wait

my apologies I didn't mean to send that

last one but the other ones the other

ones wait and there's one more because I

actually sent the wrong one

are you sure you're not just link

dumping everything on Wikileaks to me no

I was actually very prepared so I had

the leaked documents ready for you

okay well I appreciate that Hinkle is

winning hard seconds my boss is losing

badly dude very badly I've never seen

him lose this badly to anyone yeah the

engineering assessment was published by

it was Henderson's engineering report it

wasn't like a it was a personal document

it was published in early 2019 so that's

that

that's that's saying that it's a

personal report is incorrect but we'll

get to that in a second because I'm

trying to send you the last thing here

wait What official supervision did that

report undergo I again we'll get to that

in a second but let me please just

finish sending you this okay I'll look

at these but you still need to explain

to me why so many witnesses saw

helicopters no stick to the [ __ ]

evidence boss you demanded evidence and

he sent it to you so go through it this

is do not claim to have seen uh them

dropping uh the the chemical cylinders

that that is

helicopters were present over the site

at the exact instant people started

dying

you're already moving back on your

claims because you know that was an

incorrect statement no one claims to

have seen them dropping those cylinders

and in addition to that the inspector

Ian Henderson who I just pointed out

here is part of me so wait can you

answer the question did they hallucinate

the helicopters or did helicopters from

the Syrian government just happen to be

directly overhead right as the false

flag happened I'm not going to purport

to know that the investigators didn't

look into that but what I will say is

that the witnesses don't claim that they

dropped the cylinders and Ian Henderson

who was a part of the fact-finding

mission team uh the odgs

helicopters when they left vosh you just

tried to discredit the guy who did the

report that found that there was no

evidence that those were dropped from a

helicopter the the cylinders

cylinders yet we're talking about what

have we been talking about for the last

few minutes what have I been imagining

that's exactly so wait this is the

reason why our this conference station

feels like it's really discontinuous is

because every time you can't answer a

question you move to the next one that

you know

him to answer all these questions I just

back he just doesn't know these

documents explain why dozens of

witnesses claim there were helicopters

present at the attack you're the one

who's jumping from from

why did he have to explain that he's

going to retract the claim that Ian

Henderson was not a part of the

fact-finding mission team how about wait

one point at a time you realize that was

the original point we were making right

I haven't even gotten to any of the

Whistleblower things yet you keep

wanting to jump to them because that's

why

you made the claim before me you made

the claim you said you wasn't a part of

the fact-finding mission team and I did

Witnesses all like like overwhelmingly

like the vast majority of people

interviewed say that helicopters were

present at the scene

but again how is he supposed to know

consistencies with the witness

testimonies they don't allege that the

helicopters dropped the cylinders and

Ian Henderson who is the investigator

claimed that there is not evidence to

suffice the allegation uh that the

helicopters drop the cylinder so you you

continue you continue to bring up this

point we need to break the loop can we

break the NPC dialogue tree I'm so happy

to break this loose we had already

broken this Loop and then you made the

claim that Ian Henderson was not a part

of the fact-finding mission team

I gave you the documents and then you

went back to the to the to the argument

that you're trying to say regarding the

Witnesses in these documents that say

what you say they say you just provided

me like links to WikiLeaks articles so

pull them up and read them they're

highlighted okay so I would love to but

it takes me time to do that so wait

there's an echo on your end why is there

an echo what happened uh uh uh I could

not tell you that there's an echo

uh hello

yeah there's an echo coming from your

end do you have earbuds in

did it just start

it just started like a minute ago

uh uh

no everyone on my Instagram so I think

it's something on

guys I have to pee really bad is your

audio being broadcast I have to be

really bad being picked up on your

speakers yeah but I mean it has I

haven't changed anything it has been for

this entire time guys I'll be right back

I gotta pee okay I'll be right right

back I gotta be really really bad I can

move to this I'll just turn I don't want

to miss this you again

do you think there were helicopters like

why did all these Witnesses claim there

were helicopters was it a coincidence

that Syrian Air Force helicopters were

just hovering over the area right is

this alleged attack took place I don't

know vosh and the investigators did not

look into that but what they did look

into was whether or not helicopters

could have dropped those cylinders I

know okay one side one second I'm gonna

rate the volume so I can hear it while I

be a guy who was discredited by the rest

of the organization and published a

personal report that was never filed

officially you said don't you said the

investigators you just said he was

discredited by the investigation

um I just and your your allegations for

that was that he was not a part of the

fact-finding mission team I proved that

wrong and I also pointed out the fact

that the office of the director General

said they'd be happy if the visits to

the cylinders in hospital were led by

Ian Henderson in addition to that I just

want to point out that Ian Henderson is

a he is a chemical in engineering

ballistics expert expert I know authored

the study uh and in addition to that in

addition to that he he took measurements

on scene which you claimed he didn't he

served with the opcw for a total of 11

years so far and in 2005 a senior opcw

official wrote that Henderson has

consistently received the highest rating

possible

so you just said it was discredited and

I'm trying being discredited in one

report doesn't mean that like your

entire career has to be a legacy of

failure

you're the echo again wait why do I hear

the echo again can you like I don't know

that's that's your problem dude it's not

on mine

it's wait

is is this how limited your knowledge of

how the world works is it is my problem

because I'm hearing my echo it seems

like every single time I bring up the

fact that

your claim about Ian Henderson not being

on the fact-finding mission there's

somehow an echo but we'll try to figure

this out

just put earbuds in do you have earbuds

volume down not for my PC

everyone on mine says no Echo that

that's that you can't wait do you know

how Echoes work you can't hear Echo

because I have earbuds in I heard all of

this guys I was in the bathroom hearing

all of this I can't believe this pivot

he's literally pivoting wouldn't you so

[ __ ] hard what talking about the echo

I've never seen that this is your way

out isn't it this is worse than

Destiny's pivot what are you talking

about I said that you can listen

Echo it's very distracting everyone on

my end can hear it how many people are

watching on my end okay I have seven and

a half thousand people who can attest to

the existence of an echo okay okay let's

figure this out let's figure this out

um we've been streaming this entire time

and we haven't had an echo issue I did

not change my volume levels did you

change any of your volume levels it

wouldn't matter I have earbuds in

well

my audio isn't being broadcast on a

speaker

can you still hear it

Echo

yes yes

wait it's a little bit lower did you

lower the volume

doing the [ __ ] is this

try again

oh wait I don't hear it now I don't hear

it now we did it

let's go we did it all fixed let's get

it

okay so you have no alternate

explanation for the presence of

helicopters at the scene

no it's not it's the way this is our

explanation for helicopters at the scene

um there's one witness according to the

witness testimonies who alleged to have

seen this helicopter beyond that there's

no information surrounding them having

like Drop cylinders which is your

principal claim we're not talking about

dropped cylinders we're talking about

the helicopters one claim at a time and

no it's not one witness there were many

witnesses that corroborated this

information there were people who talked

with uh ngos and journalistic

organizations immediately after the

attacks took place well the original the

original report says that around our

1900 I just pulled this up on the same

day a witness reported uh seeing a

helicopter so that's just one witness I

don't know if you have more but you're

again your principal claim is that the

that the your principal claim is that

the uh

helicopter was responsible for dropping

the chemical uh cylinders but I'm just

saying there were helicopters there

again okay

let's just say that let's just say I'll

agree with you that a witness claimed to

have seen a helicopter let's just go

with that and let's continue on wait

multiple Witnesses not one witness there

were dozens of them that corroborated

that information according to the opcw

report uh the the original reports uh

what was the original report what's that

what was the original report

the the you mean the one that you label

as being just a traditional report

yeah so you mean the Alex draft report

the one that wasn't published okay the

original report right so yes the report

so let's continue on here because I'd

love to hear your evidence evidence for

why or how you believe the cylinders

were dropped from the helicopter wait so

wait okay so we're conceding the

helicopter Point okay gotcha so there

were helicopters now we're talking about

the chemicals no one knows

wash no one knows I never said that

there weren't I just said not

necessarily but let's continue

okay so let's try to build this up piece

by piece so do you acknowledge that

there were

um chlorine gas canisters found at the

at locations two and four

uh there were cylinders there

okay and do you acknowledge that uh the

cylinders were consistent with the

method and the technique that would

traditionally be used to deploy a

chlorine uh chemical weapons attack

uh

uh what are you alleging is a is a

typical way to deploy chemical weapons

attack are you referring to dropping by

a helicopter

no I mean that the canisters themselves

were of the appropriate Dimensions

contained the appropriate

um mechanical components to

um contain uh highly pressurized

chlorine gas essentially that these are

the types of Munitions that would be

used to do such a thing these are also

consistent basically with the types of

designs that have been used in previous

chemical weapons attacks

um in Syria

so

I I yeah I don't contest that

okay

how do you suspect those arrived there

the houses

concluded that there was no evidence

that a helicopter dropped them first of

all and they said no I'm not that

question wait please thank you stupid

it's not the [ __ ] burden of him

[ __ ] know about the person who

[ __ ] knows better just for you to

answer Obama engineering

engineering investigations you're

talking specifically about the one that

was published by not published even that

was produced by Ian Henderson just be

specific with your language okay there

were other engineering reports that

disagreed with what he said you're

talking just about Ian Henderson the

engineering report that was uh that was

that was asked to have been uh that was

asked to have been led by Ian Henderson

yes uh and that that report found that

uh there was a higher probability

I'm quoting this

that both cylinders were manually placed

rather than being delivered from

aircraft and then it goes on at location

four where a cylinder was found on the

bed the study determined that the

cylinder was too large to have

penetrated the hole in the roof above at

the other site location two The observed

damage to the cylinder into the roof it

allegedly penetrated were incompatible

with an aircraft bombing ballistic

experts and that this this part is not a

quote ballistic experts also said it was

more likely that the crater had been

made by an explosion probably an

artillery round a rocket or a mortar

with bow cylinders the study concluded

and I'm quoting again the alternative

hypothesis that the cylinders were

manually placed and that the craters

were caused by other means produce the

only plausible explanation for

observations at the scene

okay so a couple of questions then

um if this is the case you do realize

Ian Henderson did conclude that there

was a chemical weapons attack or at

least that was where he believed the

evidence lead you're the one making the

claim that there was no chemical weapons

attack but in doing so you're citing

evidence from an engineering report from

a person's whose conclusion aligned with

mine that there was a chemical weapons

attack where is your evidence that Ian

Henderson claimed there was a chemical a

chemical attack

have you read his report I'm asking you

for the information sure I mean we can

go and read the report if you want well

you're stating it like it's facts so I I

figured you'd have it in front of you

that was his conclusion yes

so where did you get that

from his report that there was a

chemical weapons attack

he said that the evidence LED in that

direction yeah he was under the

impression not that there wasn't a um

chlorine gas attack but rather that it

was placed there the implication was

that Syrian rebels had done so which is

the reason why it wasn't published

because the opcw is legally uh

disallowed from making any claims as to

the agents who are responsible for the

any uh alleged chemical weapons attacks

citizens documents seem to like suggest

that it was Syria implanted and for that

reason it wasn't published so

I don't believe that it and I I could be

wrong about this but I don't believe

that Ian Henderson claimed that uh there

was a chemical attack I could be wrong

what I do know that what I do know well

you're you're you continue to claim that

he said that without a you know beyond A

Reasonable Doubt but

at any point wait please do not lie

about what I've said okay I said that he

believed the conclusions indicated that

as the the evidence inference okay wait

wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait

no he did not say that he did not say

that vosh you're making this stuff up so

again please one more time just so I

don't get get it wrong here what did you

say what did you say his claim was not

that there was no chemical attack only

that the um the canisters were no you

said you said he said there was an

attack I remember what you said I don't

remember what you said no because a few

seconds ago you said that he said that

there was a chemical attack but that it

wasn't carried out I'm trying I'm sorry

I'm trying to be like specific with my

language and it keeps not working

because you keep not hearing okay I'm

going to be as specific as I can with

this line is the echo about to start

coming in again Bosh you said that Ian

Henderson claimed that there was a

chemical attack yes he did he did say

that so I remember pretty sure what I

said was that the report was principally

on the method of the canister's delivery

no you said he said that there was a

chemical he literally [ __ ] can someone

get the clip of him saying it does not

indicate that Henderson someone get the

clip of him saying it he [ __ ] said it

no you said that no vosh vosh you're

changing your words now now you're

saying that he didn't contest that there

wasn't a chemical attack a few seconds

ago you said that Ian Henderson did that

he did believe there was a chemical

attack but that it was not helicopters

who who carried out the attack and that

it was likely manually placed so you're

changing your words here but what I will

say is that uh he did believe that it

was likely a manual placement uh you're

lying about him saying that there was a

chemical attack and if you're not and

you know if you believe you're not lying

I'd like you to cite this but you can't

because you're lying

um and I like how like with you've been

like uh like weaseling off like

everything that you've said

slightly more you're trying to [ __ ]

Gaslight us we have evidence

when we have evidence gas lighting only

works there's no evidence

I asked you for citations on a claim

about helicopter sources and you linked

to be five articles I said hey are these

really all relevant and you were like uh

uh actually hold on wait and you were

like no wait actually I sent you 200

irrelevant Pages no did you contest the