Sultan vs Sondsol Debate

hello hello can you hear me

i can't yes i can alrighty how's it

going my friend

no it's going pretty well up until you

[ __ ] dm'd me

oh well we don't have to talk if you

don't want to if you're so if this is

going to stress you out too much we

don't have to talk buddy

no i'm not stressed i'm just i'm just

annoyed by

people who think they know about the

subject so well

but they don't actually know anything

well i mean i already told you in dms

what i feel

comfortable talking about and what

topics we are going to talk about that

you

are wanting to talk about so if you are

if you're

if you're raring to go let's go like

which thing i'm completely comfortable

with uh

with all of the topics handed to me

all right well what what is it that i

know so much about

that you're that you're irritated at me

for for pretending to know so much about

the basics just the pure basics

economics or

economics but mostly ideology

okay okay so

which do you think is more important

though

i'm pretty sure economics is more

important but i'd like to address

ideology first

sure we can address ideology

okay so first of all wait what's with

the topics you gave me i need to check

i forgot oh i i asked you for the topics

you want to talk about russia you wanted

to talk about ideology

once i got some eo on on your end

i'm not listening to this stream no i i

think i

think it's my mind

okay so about russia

you told me you weren't that

knowledgeable about russia

uh i'm moderately not knowledgeable

about russia but you said that putin was

trying to socialize the economy or

something

he is he's developing the productive

forces

okay in what way

for example for example his

nationalization of the

aerospace industry and his

development of that industry in a way

that

would benefit the workers that are

working inside the [ __ ]

aerospace industry the way

the way he's uh

the way he's been developing russia

lately with uh

state capitalism uh similar to

similar to the reforms in china

makes it seem do you really think that

nationalizing

one one industry is no this is just an

example

it's just an example okay gotcha really

quick i i'm

do you have earphones we can we can keep

talking if you don't but

earphones is i think the problem here

i have headphones on you have headphones

on

yes oh okay i don't know where the echo

is coming from we can keep talking

though

so so from my understanding

basically when the ussr collapsed and

then

um boris yeltsin was in charge

right he basically cranked the

liberalization thing

up to 11 and uh

12 people basically owned all of russia

and then putin threw one of those guys

in jail for not agreeing with him enough

and then uh here we are

now there's still essentially an

oligarchy

in russia do you do you disagree with

that

whatsoever i disagree with that because

that's just a manipulation of the facts

the fact is on the ground is that

putin is using putin is using the

entrepreneurship and the knowledge in

the

in the economy of these 12 oligarchs

to benefit the country he controls them

they don't just do whatever they want

the ease he's in full control of what

they do and what they don't do

well sure he may be in control in

in so far as if you don't do uh if you

try to do things that um are

against me then i'm going to throw you

in jail but do you think that that's the

way that a country should be run

it's not against him personally it's

against it's against the

the working-class people yeah his vision

is to benefit the working-class people

it's to benefit the proletariat

it seems like his vision is to uh have

some kind of

united russian uh like that

state based off of the ethnicities of

people

so like they'll go and protect ethnic

russians kind of in the way that they

were doing in

um early 20th century you do know you do

know

the russian russia is called the russian

federation

for the reason it has more ethnicities

than

than any any western country i

really doubt i really doubt it's just

protecting ethnic russians

making an ethanol state that just does

well i don't know if he's making an

ethno state

uh like in the way that we would think

about it um

but like certainly some of the speeches

that he's getting literally for example

they protected all sections in

georgia they protected tatars and crimea

they protected other minorities and

uh in foreign nations both of those

sound like that's incorrect

didn't the tartars and um

crimea not really get much of a say in

the the annexation that russia did

they voted for russian the referendum or

at least the

grand majority of them

so yeah you i

so when we're talking about this you

think that russia is

uh that putin is trying to basically

create um

or move more towards a soviet-style

economy is that what you think or i'm

i'm just trying to like figure out

what the what the baseline of this

conversation is supposed to be

what you're what you believe

no he's he's turning because obviously

the soviet system failed

and uh he's turning he's turning to the

lessons lead from

china because china is still a thing

china is

still succeeding in what they're doing

but the assad

clearly didn't know what they were doing

especially at the end

so what he's doing is turning to a more

dangerous to a more tangist approach

to marxism

okay so why does why do both china

and russia seem to have these these

forms of socialism that they're moving

towards

that involve uh oligarchs in their

country

because that feels very antithetical to

the to the tenants of

of socialism or the ideals of socialism

because because if you want a base for

socialism you need a strong economy

you need a strong

economy the thing with that is

uh oligarchs can help with the

centralization and state capitalism too

but to grow the economy

you need a phase of capitalism or a

phase of uh

of uh market basically a free market

do you think the thing was that is for

example the nep that senate

that was that was a basically a

primitive form of

thanks thought lenin basically copied

was basically [ __ ] teaching lenin

like

what to do okay do you think that

um because

it feels like this is the exact same

kind of thing that um

happened like i'm not comparing modern

russia to

nazi germany in anything but economics

here

right um but they also

allowed people to um have

huge uh corporations and and large

businesses

as long as they were in line with the

state's thoughts and as soon as they

stepped outside of the state's

um wishes they were also nationalized so

what is the difference between

what like putin would be doing versus

hitler in that sense

okay well first of all first of all

there's like many incorrect things about

that comparison first and foremost is

the nazi ideology is not against

uh capitalism it's uh it colludes with

it it uses it as a tool

to expand its uh ideological sphere

isn't that what putin is doing with the

oligarchs

isn't what putin is doing with the

oligarchs

to use them in order to create

associations no no no

putin is using the oligarchs to

expand expand his control over the

economy to develop the economy

and this is a temporary phase but

nazi nazi germany was not

it it was not a temporary face for nazi

germany

nazi germany was just seeking profit it

was seeking revenue

to to feed its war machine and continue

the war

but how do you how do you know that that

was not a temporary phase we

we wiped them off the [ __ ] map before

they you know

finished their what do you mean nazi

nazi nazis would literally helped

to get to power by corporations like

groups group style and like other banks

and stuff like that

right and i'm saying that there's

there's also

the state using oligarchs in soviet or

not soviet russia sorry

in modern day russia in order to

develop their economy right

the the the maybe they're developing the

economy like each other but the thing is

the goal of developing the economy is

very different

yeah well yeah i wasn't saying that the

goals were the same i was just saying

that no

you were saying you were saying that

they're both using

capitalism to to advance their ideology

and that's the same goal basically but

that's not true

but wait no you just agreed with me you

just agreed that they're both doing the

same thing but for different reasons i

didn't

speak to their reasons you

you said you said that they're both

doing it to advance their ideological

thoughts or ideas ideologies

yes but that's not the thing nazi

germany

nazi germany they weren't doing it to

advance their ideology because

capitalism

is not against their ideology they're

just doing

it because what are you talking about so

hate capitalism

what do you mean fascist state

capitalism what are you on about

first fascists and captors

i'm sorry i didn't hear you right there

but absolutely fascists

fascists and capitalists are two sides

of the same coin

if you disagree if you disagree you're

[ __ ]

dumb you just don't know what you're

talking about

capitalism leads to consumerism

right which fascists say is degeneracy

and is like a brain rot right they call

people that are not all capitalism leads

not all capitalism leads to

consumers

there's many types of capitalism that

i'm talking about like this is how

fascists see capitalism

fascists might see capitalism but in

practicality their way of thought their

way of

their way of economics is also

capitalist

uh okay

i don't think that fascism has any kind

of

uh coherent economic

prescriptions to it um

but we can when i'm talking about

fascism

i'm saying i'm talking about the

historical examples

such as italy nazi germany etc etc

right but they didn't really care about

they would

nationalize things that were outside of

the purview of the state and then they

would

um or like outside of what the the state

wanted and then if someone

was um and then they would privatize

things that they didn't want to deal

with

right they don't really have no but all

for example

in germany virtually all capitalist

structures

in germany after the nazis took power

stayed intact like

like uh krupstall porsche messerschmitt

they all

they even used them to develop their

military industry to feed the war

machine

they didn't they they naturally all the

infrastructure

right and they in order to build

infrastructure throughout germany and

i mean that was a massive failure but

why the

um god damn i turned off my xbox again

with my coke can son of a [ __ ] okay

i'll just

leave it off for now um anyways

uh so they they definitely

nationalized a great many things in

order to

achieve their political goals right do

you disagree with that statement

whatsoever

i disagree with that statement because

for example the term privatization was

literally

coined to describe the the economic

policies of nazi germany

nazi germany was just they weren't just

nationalizing that's just no they were

nationalizing and privatizing

nationalize how how do you nationalize

and privatize

can you like explain that different

industries were either nationalized or

privatized they didn't go all the way

into nationalization they didn't go all

the way into privatization

at that time well first of all then

that's not an economic policy it's not

describing an economic policy yeah

because fascism doesn't have

a coherent one no that's just capitalism

because first of all first of all if

you're gonna talk about nationalization

nationalization doesn't equal socialism

that's like

pure basic [ __ ] socialist thought

well i i agree that these things it's

like rectangles and squares

right one like if like uh soviet russia

would have

a fully nationalized economy right

and we do consider that one socialist

but just it's not just the

nationalization aspect of it

right there was a word

i forgot the words i need to try and

check

try and find it but nationalization it's

it's

it's not nationalization it comes with

socialism but it's not socialism

there's a lot there's a lot of nations

that have nationalized and they haven't

been socialist

that's just i don't know i don't your

logic just doesn't seem coherent to me

i i think perhaps we're talking past

each other because i don't understand

what you're

you're saying either when we're looking

at

russia right when we're looking at

modern-day russia

what what leads you to believe that this

is a country that is

trying to create a socialized

nation

well they're trying to create a

socialized nation

because for example putin has praised

the us sword in the past that means he's

a socialist

that's it i think that's a good enough

explanation

so putin has said nice things about the

ussr in the past and so

he's trying to move

yeah he also has the same aesthetics

why did he bring back the the cossacks

then

if he likes the aesthetics of the ussr

why is he bringing back all these

traditionalist

aesthetics to the to modern day russia

he isn't though but he is he really

isn't because

because if you no no no no because

really

the stalin the stalin era the stalin era

the stalin era had very traditionalist

very traditionalist aesthetics for

example

have you seen the stalinist buildings i

don't remember what they called them in

russia

they are very traditional they look they

look like tsarist palaces

socialist realism is generally more

traditional

i'm not talking about buildings i'm

talking about appealing to

imperialist russia and tsarist

aesthetics cossacks are

literally an inherent part of soviet

aesthetics anyways

they they persecuted the the cossex

because they were the the the czar's

henchmen

you know that's right that's that's not

true that's

literally not true sex cossacks cossacks

were part of the word

they were the first ranks of the botch

of the revolutionaries

do you know do you even know what you're

talking about i'm using the wrong word

one second let me let me

look this up yeah you should probably

look it up

okay

so if you even disbanded the caustic

units in the soviet union

or soviet army

because right now and here's like a

picture of them

right here the the cossacks

in uh modern day russia

are essentially acting as putin's proud

boys

and they're appealing to like the the

traditional

uh russian aesthetic they're uh just

comparing

the pure fact you compared russian

cul-sax to the proud boys shows that

you're in the anglo-box

you're stuck in the western mindset i'm

making a comparison

that people in my audience can

relate to that's a

very bad comparison it's not a bad

comparison

they beat the [ __ ] out of people that

don't agree with putin

wait have they done that which have they

done that though uh

well um i know there was like a 60 year

old guy who lost

80 percent of his vision because a bunch

of cossacks beat him up because he

wasn't

um he was uh a badmouthing putin in

public

being racist right now is that is that

what i

understand from you

what are you talking about because

cossacks are

are in ethnicity you're just you're just

generalizing an entire ethnicity

dressing up like this right uh

okay i don't know okay

so again

i look up cossex right

look up the images

russia's cossacks return right

as in like a unit of people right right

here

and they go around and they hit people

and they beat people up that don't agree

with putin this is

just true well first of all i need a

citation for the

beating up and stuff like that the

incident where they beat up

second of all it's an ethnicity it's not

a political group

one car sack might be a it might be a

socialist another car sack might be

uh i don't know what he wants to be a

tsarist i don't care but that's an

ethnicity you can't just generalize it

and say that car sacks are

also [ __ ] right deserves a beating

[ __ ] right deserves to be right

deserves a beating why

because they're obnoxious about it like

why why

why would i care about you crushing into

a church and

being obnoxious being what about russian

opposition leaders

being attacked by navalny

yeah if navalny if navalny was being

attacked by the

by putin he would have already been dead

well i mean he was poisoned by the guy

so i don't know he was poisoned

but somehow russia let him get out of

russia and go to

germany to get treatment i don't know

but

if i was control i wasn't in control of

a nation i

just poisoned the guy inside it i

probably won't let him get out and get

treatment i don't know maybe it's common

sense i don't think like

your community can understand it but

wasn't he already on a plane

he was on a plane in russia he was in

novosibh

okay yeah he was in siberia

he wasn't just in western russia

what is what how does this blow

this is something that is

internationally accepted to

have happened right it was using the the

the nerve agent uh nova

something right

which is something that only even even

then even then even then why would i

care if he was

poisoned because we're talking about

specifically that it's a

an example of a country that's

socializing and i don't think that it is

i think it's a

an oligarchy that's run by an autocrat

socializing socializing does not mean

socializing does not mean inherently it

does not mean democracy

does not it does not mean a uh

western democracy specifically because

democracies exist

russia is a democracy it's just not a

western democracy

zone so a democracy that doesn't

uh follow the rules of

democracy is fine as long as it's

someone that you like

again this shows this shows that you're

in the anglo box because

it's a west what does anglo box mean

tell me what anglo box means

the west you can't wait hold on really

quick you keep on appealing to anglo box

instead of actually making arguments

no no no i'm making arguments you're

just not understanding

what i'm saying is western democracy

it has rules of western democracy is not

the only type of democracy

the ussr was a democracy

for example cuba was cuba is still a

democrat

it's not a western democracy it's not

the democracy you would say

you'd think of as uh like france and

germany

yeah we're like there's dictators that

doesn't really seem like much of a

democracy to me does it

democracy demo stalin literally

for example if you're talking about the

us

stalin literally proposed to

stand down from a seat multiple times

and people wouldn't let them

that that's not that that has nothing to

do with

what i said it does it does because

because the people want them that's

democracy

he stayed in power despite

he uh look okay

i don't know what what this conversation

is anymore i'm really

um i think you're just frustrated that i

am incredibly frustrated

i don't even know if we're having a

debate at this point you're just saying

things

those are the things you are true but

yeah i'm trying to get you out of your

invested mindset i'm trying to show

you in order for you to get me out of my

western mindset you have to

completely change my mind on what it

means to have a democracy where you vote

on your leaders and

on you know representatives voting on

your leaders doesn't equal democracy

what is democracy

democracy democracy is the act of

representing the people

and just voting for your leaders doesn't

automatically mean

that's the only the only way of

representing your people

so

how do the people have representation if

they're not

voting and having a say in their

government the soviet union had votes

though

they had votes for people that were

chosen by the state in the same way that

china does oh they had votes for the

local soviets etc which would

eventually indeed that were sanctioned

by the state

they weren't sanctioned by the of course

of course there's a line of thought

that wouldn't be exceeded but the thing

is

you the party line was very diverse

you had a lot of people in the party for

example

how would the u.s such have collapsed

if you didn't have people like gorby

inside the party

people like people like uh

yeltsin inside the party you wouldn't

have if you didn't have reformists the

u.s side wouldn't just

have collapsed from the inside

uh it collapsed from the inside because

its economy wasn't

able to last because it was bloated

it had a lot of ideological reasons

behind it

the ussr collapsed this is just true

because

of the of the bloat of its economy and

the inefficiencies

there within that is that is

not true that is false this is 100

percent true

i don't know the reason the u.s fell the

reason the u.s thought

fell was reformists

reformists trying to replicate what

china had did and trying to

to turn to turn uh

more federalized to a more federalized

state and giving

russians and ukrainians and lithuanians

more power in their own

uh nation-states

of course yeah they tried to do they

tried to liberalize

their economy a little bit and open up

markets a little bit but they did it too

late because their economy was already

[ __ ] and on

uh on trend to collapse

no they did too much not too late

because the economy shouldn't have been

liberalized that much the economy

plus the i don't remember the exact uh

exact vocabulary for it but there was a

a difference in the reform between china

and uh and the us are the u.s side had

a system basically from the top to

bottom

privatization and china added

from the bottom to the top just so i can

understand

you're saying that the the ussr or sorry

ussr

had their their system was

privatized from the top down i'm sorry

yes

after the fall of the soviet union or

no turing in the last few years

okay and you're saying that china's is

from the bottom up

yes

and because for example for example

the way the way china conducted that

fort

with the the uh

land distribution and stuff it was

it was very uh very hell i called

decentralized it was basically up to the

people

up to the locals

in china or in russia in china

okay

it if it's it okay i want to stick to

russia really quick all right

because the question i was about to ask

was gonna guess off topic

why

why did the soviet union collapse

it collapsed because of corruption from

inside the party

deterioration degeneracy

what do you mean degeneracy

for example the the

the how do i call it the push for

reformism the push for

national identity the push for all of

that

that caused that caused the degeneration

in the party line caused the party line

to deteriorate it caused

party members to become more and more

nationalistic

more and more uh more and more

uh greedy more and more um

selfish etc etc

okay you realize that right now modern

russia is incredibly nationalistic

incredibly about national identity

over basically anything right

modern russia isn't the u.s source

though

right i'm trying to see what because you

probably you do you

you like the ussr right

i don't oh you don't okay i was

operating under the assumption that you

liked the ussr

maybe that makes more no no i'm actually

i'm actually

[Music]

i don't know what that means

oh okay is that the correct

pronunciation

yes okay cool so is that

did is that just like a popular

sentiment amongst them

yes we we were more supportive of china

we we never we know because the u.s

starts

since we have a lot of our population

kazakhstan the u.s star was always

influencing us trying to influence us

against china etc

okay so

ussr bad modern russia good

because of the nationalism

yes basically and not not only that

russia russia also russia also has a

very different

approach to very different approach to

the reformism

and to the to the state capitalism phase

the development of the productive forces

that uh then the u.s sought

like they they basically copied the

chinese system

you think that right now russia is

trying to move towards

a system like china's i'm trying to

understand your point is

yes yes that is my point

okay i don't understand in what way

besides besides you saying that they're

just that they are

nationalizing a few industries

i've listed i've listed i've listed that

industry as an example right right

there's many industries being

nationalized by the russians right now

okay so the the way that i understand

the

chinese economy to work is basically

that there

is a um a

mostly nationalized economy

that has opened up to

a liberal free market so that they can

trade with the rest of the world

right now the way the way that chinese

economy

works is that the

chairman thing he orders

the changes in the economy like the

development of a certain industry

the extraction of certain resources etc

and then the the changes are carried out

and and then trade is conducted with the

with the free free liberal markets

outside

to to make capital reinvest into

the chinese economy etc to develop the

productive forces

okay so which part

of what i said was incorrect then

because you said you what did you say

again repeat

so i said and mine was less in depth

than yours but i feel like you said the

same thing

that there is a a mostly nationalized

most of the industries or

firms in china are nationalized

but it has opened up to the free market

so that they can

increase the the capabilities of their

economy they can increase their wealth

right

if you if you put it that way yes but i

don't remember you putting it

exactly that way okay

so

how how is this the same as russia

because i don't see that happening in

russia right now

putin orders the oligarchs putin orders

the oligarchs to do the

changes they do the changes they invest

here they

they pull money from there etc they

they sell resources to the west like

their

oil and gas pipelines to the eu and then

they reinvested into their own economy

and then they developed their economy

developed the productive forces

and finally reached socialism and uh

one day they'd reach the lower stages of

communism

so so by having

12 incredibly rich oligarchs and telling

them hey

if you don't do this then i'm going to

put you in jail right but you can still

reap the benefits of this decision

that will so you go from oligarchy

to controlled oligarchy

and then it just becomes socialism

well you can put it this way but it's

more gradual than that

i'm basically basically uh

they start with an oligarchy to develop

the productive forces

then after that after the

getting an oligarchy getting a few

entrepreneurs who

invest go around make profit

you control them you put you put them

under your hand you start

you start ordering them around and

gradually

you eliminate them one by one

and then you get to socialism

and then after socialism you get to

uh you get to

communism by 2050.

okay how do you know that this is his

plan to get rid of all of the oligarchs

are you just because he's already got

he's already he's already eliminated a

few oligarchs

right for for disagreeing with them

politically right

right but that was that was a that was

more of

a public excuse

so because if you look at the chat

you're look you're reading into his

decisions

you have to read between the lines you

have to have the

the intellectual narrative is the

problem

you have no idea no it's not my own no

it's not my own narrative

it's just if you have a basic

understanding of geopolitics and how

politics work

you would know that putin doesn't want

people to know that he's a socialist

why because that would hurt him

do you not know how so how the how

calling someone a socialist would hurt

them nowadays

it would hurt them in the in the us

it wouldn't probably hurt him all that

much in russia or in the east

it probably would because socialism

socialism nowadays is tied with the

with the atheism which side with

basically progressivism and

it's that's not really going to work in

a traditionalist nation such as russia

well most of the people in russia or at

least the the last polls that i saw

most of the people in russia that are um

that were alive back during the soviet

union want to return to those days

of of soviet control

over the yeah but do you think do you

think old people are the majority in

russia

huh do you think old people are the

majority in russia

i i'm just like going based off of the

the things that

the the polls said right people who

lived

through the soviet union people that

lived through the soviet union say that

that was a better

life than they're living now because

right now there's

such massive wealth inequality right

that they i don't think it's because of

the wealth inequality it's just because

the soviet union the soviet union

and its heyday had uh

they had a better economy in general

they were bigger they were uh

they were more subsidized stuff

people lived better at the time

okay and so the economy of soviet russia

was better than the russia

the the economy of russia today that

putin has been in charge of for 20 years

temporarily it was but the

the the economy the economy of

uh the us thought wasn't going to land

it was

doomed from the start yeah i agree with

that centrally planning

an economy is really [ __ ] stupid

right which isn't the central

plan it wasn't the central planning it

absolutely was but

even at that right when we're looking at

the the soviet russia like soviet

russian quality of life and the quality

of life in russia today that putin has

been in charge of for 20 years

all right no no no no no but

the for example then you the new ccp

party plenum said that

it will take china until 2075 to achieve

sorcerers

so developing the productive forces

isn't just something that you do over 20

years it takes time

right but developing the the forces of

production all like

you should be able to stabilize an

economy and create an economy that's not

so bad that people are struggling to

survive

all right literally that's all western

propaganda

russia is actually like pretty rich

their their gdp is pretty uh pretty low

they're they're relevant in geopolitics

because they have a a pretty strong

military and they have the most

nukes in the entire world and that gives

them a lot of geopolitical

um sway right

but in terms of their economically

economically economically they're uh

they're pretty they're pretty powerful

the gdp

and yes the gdp doesn't really mean one

trillion dollars

yeah and they have 100 million people

so that's like pretty good

that that's equivalent to

a much smaller country and it's the

largest country by land mass

you do know you do know that most of

russia is just

not even habitable though

but the resources that you that are in

siberia for example

right italy has a higher gdp

germany has a higher gdp

yeah germany of course but italy italy

is just

a western nation anyways they are always

is always

yes but germany i'm talking about italy

i'm saying that

italy just uh western nations always

help each other out

russia is alone basically

well western nations were helping each

other out during the 20th century

because

they had liberalized economies russia

did not

now russia has a liberalized economy

they could

do [ __ ] that's just false

does not it absolutely has a liberalized

economy

that's the force yeltsin it's controlled

by the state it's uh

it's an ep phase

in what way is russia's economy not

liberalized

that's what the problem was with boris

yeltsin he went way too hard

into the liberalization and it [ __ ]

over the country because only 12 people

owned the entire [ __ ] country

putin literally undid all of that putin

no those those same people still own the

country

he eliminated a bunch of them it's it's

just it's just

a temporary roadblock it's it's going to

take time to eliminate all of

but it's clear that putin putin wants to

bring

back uh state control over the economy

because putin putin applied the practice

of deng xiaoping and joshua

i i i want to appeal to you as like a

just like a a person to a person

like do you you realize how much

conjecture that you're putting into this

right that

that you're just saying that it's

happening because it is happening

and well we don't really have evidence

for it but that's because putin is

a mastermind that doesn't want people to

know he's a socialist right but he's

definitely trying to follow the

the same thing that uh well the thing is

it's not my fault

if you can't if you can't understand

basic geopolitics and

in between i'm going off of what you say

right because what you're saying it

doesn't

match realities so far as i can i so as

far as any reality that i can tell

right sounds like there's a lot of

ideological

bias that's going into how you're

perceiving the world if we're going to

talk about ideological bias i think

you're

you're really you're very biased

i don't know why do i even subscribe to

that you could call me biased towards

the su

towards a certain ideology is enough to

to make you biased towards uh sides for

example your defense of navalny

that alone i didn't wait at what point i

defend navalny i said one thing

you you clearly you were clearly biased

in favor of lavon

all i said was that he was attacked by

the by that group of people the

cosmetics

literally in the anglo-box ideology i

don't know what's up with uh

you and your community it's just all

it's just all i don't know how to

describe it it's just all right

you're just saying anglo box in that i'm

defending the volume when i didn't

actually say yeah because you you are

defensive

you are defending your defending is uh

you are defending the world

i don't care about navalny per se what i

care about is having a democracy in

which people are able to vote for a

candidate that they enjoy

right that they like that they think is

going to do better for the country

getting [ __ ] assassinated didn't it

polls didn't pause show that uh

most most russians love business

uh what which polls ones that are

conducted by rt

or like state media or no no no they

were told

about how i'm sure that a lot of i'm

sure that a lot of russians

support putin i don't deny that right

wait hold on really really you want a

democracy really if you want a democracy

then

a democracy would have put in charge

right and on democracy wouldn't also try

assassinating anyone that could pose a

threat to that person's

rule i would definitely assassinate

someone who

who has been trying to destabilize in

that

the nation by winning ethnic rivalry

because religious strife etc so you are

so yeah would you would you support the

assassination of mlk

in the us mlk did not cause ethnic

strife he was he was driving foot rights

he pointed out i don't know

uh there was absolutely ethnic strife in

the united states

during the time of martin luther king he

wasn't playing he wasn't promoting a

race war though

he was the thing he was promoting he was

promoting black rights

what do you think at the time people

were seeing martin luther king is doing

they were say they would probably say

well first of all first of all

i want to point something out i want to

point something out

i want to point something out the fact

that you're

the the fact that you're comparing mlk

to navalny

i'm not comparing them i'm going off you

are you literally

i'm not complaining because you said

hold on really quick let me explain

what what you said was i would

absolutely assassinate someone that was

causing

um religious political ethnic strife

in my con in my country mlk

absolutely was playing off of the

political and ethnic strife that was

happening in the united states between

white people and black people so that he

could okay so

that is exactly what i did your twist

and the goal of the conversation

just shows how biased because

you went from saying you went from

saying what the [ __ ] went from saying

you went from saying mlk was causing

ethnic strife to mrk was playing off of

there was

that's what i said in the first place my

friend you did not you said he was

causing and now you're saying he's

playing

off and then second of all second of all

mlk did not cause ethnic strife

he was asking for rights but just

purely insulting for purely insulting an

ethnic group isn't the same as asking

for rights

those are completely different

all right are you saying that mlk

was insulting white people

i'm saying navalny was insulting ethnic

minorities

i'm not talking about right now because

you're comparing between the two

i'm not comparing them you said that you

would want to assassinate people

that that caused strife in the united

states a lot of people at the time

during the civil rights movement saw mlk

as someone that was causing a lot of

civil strife in the united states and a

lot of [ __ ] white moderates were

saying

well i i like martin luther king but you

know

i wish that he would just you know uh be

chill about it right

the the you know yeah well the thing is

how because

people like you would absolutely tell

people doesn't matter

how people saw doesn't matter because uh

there's a really famous quote facts

don't care about your feelings

[ __ ] mlk

was not cause he was not going around

insulting

he was not going around insulting ethnic

minorities he wasn't going around

you're not engaging with what i'm saying

no i am

though i am though and even then even

then if you're if you're going to talk

if you're going to talk about oh the

assassination of

mlk and stuff like that the u.s

literally was assassinating political uh

rivals they assassinated right but you

would be in favor of that because they

were doing things that were caught that

were perceived at least

as causing strife in the country at that

time and you don't want there to be

strife you want there to be

some kind of unified uh uh

idealism as to what the country is right

and so if we're looking at

no no looking at

[Music]

ethnic minorities it was clearly it was

clearly going to

it was clearly going to [ __ ] with the

national stability and the national

the national uh co coherence

i don't know how you wanted don't you

think that mlk

uh was attacking the the social

coherence of the united states

by saying that we're not going to

put up with being second-class citizens

anymore

not really no he wasn't attacking the

national cohen

he was just he was just trying to

advance he was trying to advance his

people's rights that wasn't [ __ ] with

the national coherence of the nation

it absolutely was because it was really

coherent before where you know

the the whites knew that the blacks knew

their space and then

they they had all the [ __ ] uh they

had all the

segregation and then black people said

we actually don't want to deal with this

anymore

we're not going to deal with what the

the current order is

right the current social order is

and so that that literally that

literally wasn't talking true because

another another crucial point another

crucial point

in uh in this discussion is that

mlk was doing it out of ideological

thought

mlk was not backed by foreign powers

navalny is being openly backed by trump

and by then he's

he's basically a geopolitical pawn he's

the

one guido of russia basically

i i think that if i'm stuck in an anglo

box you're stuck in

an eastern box like you have no idea

what the [ __ ] you're talking about

yeah i'm i'm pretty sure i'm pretty sure

you're just

you're just talking out of your ass at

this point you have

you have no valid point you haven't made

a single right you'll say something

you'll say something really [ __ ]

funny

right like i believe in i like democracy

but then you'll say that

assassinating or or attacking or

imprisoning

political opponents is fine in your

world view

in order to maintain a democracy again

again

that would be independent again

that's not how a democracy works no it

that's just that's just your impression

of a democracy

a democracy is

i study this in school i know different

political systems and a democracy is not

a system in which you can imprison or

assassinate all of your political

opponents

and have it still be a democracy

again again do you consider the us a

democracy

uh yes i can consider the u.s a

democracy

okay okay and in the u.s there was

assassinations

there was political arrest there was

political backlash there was political

uh

oppression yeah so so if you consider

the u.s a democracy and they still have

assassinations political oppression

imprisonment etc you realize that

there's no

you realize that there's like a spectrum

and there's a scale of things that are

more or less

democratic okay but where where do you

decide with that scale and

and then it's not democracy well i think

that if people are able to

run for office without being

assassinated that's probably a good uh

a step in the right direction if we're

talking about and in russia

and russia like the communist party for

example transfer to office every year

you think that do you think that's not

uh you think that's not the people that

run for uh

when people run for office in russia

they know they're not going to win

you can watch interviews with them they

know that they have no idea of course

they wouldn't win because

putin is more popular the only person

that tries to win

is alex navalny alex

alexa if alex was in charge

if alexander was in charge

hold on hold on i'm not talking about if

alex navalny was in charge i'm talking

about the thing is

the thing is the reason is

shut the [ __ ] up shut the [ __ ] up listen

up listen up listen up

the reason the reason why it's rare in

the us

the reason why it's traded in the us is

because the u.s opposition is very weak

there's two parties in the u.s and

the only two parties that shawn are the

democrats and the republicans

that's all that is

there there are more than two parties

right yeah but the

are you gonna [ __ ] call the

libertarians relevant

no i don't think that they're a viable

political party

but there are two viable political

parties but you can make your own

political party without being

assassinated

but that's just symbolic doesn't really

matter

because the system is there to block any

other

any other uh parties or ideology

you can you can run as a democrat and

speak out against democrats though

so what are you saying i said that you

can run

as a democrat and speak out against

democrats and not get assassinated

you can't run as a democrat and speak

against democrats

yeah and you're not going to get

assassinated and

and how how's that working with aoc

well she's been elected into office

twice and so as ill and omar

and so as rashida talib people

the the the progressive wing of the

democratic party is growing

every election cycle the progressive the

progressive wing of the democratic party

is just regressing because elan omar for

example voted in favor of giving aid to

israel

aoc voted in favor of capital police

they're just they're just progressive in

favor of capital police

yes you realize that capitol police are

people that are inside the capital to

make sure that people don't come in and

try to assassinate them right

it wasn't it doesn't just assassination

because for example you think

you think the republicans were larping

at the [ __ ]

capital event or whatever that happened

a few months ago you think they would

assassinate the [ __ ] democrat

well they had a news out there so also

an idea behind it but

the capital police was a budget

expansion it was a two billion dollar

expansion for the local police

department

it's not it's not just the [ __ ] how

did aoc vote on something for

local police departments two billion

dollars for the local police no

aoc wouldn't have voted on that she

literally did though that's impossible

what do you mean that's impossible

federal

she's a federal politician she doesn't

vote on things for local

municipalities are you saying that uh

like federal funding that would go

towards

municipalities

hello are you there look at this oh i

sent you

sorry i don't have this thing open let

me see

the capital police said basically the

washington dc

uh department is dc isn't just

patently untrue what do you mean

what do you mean it's on true it's in

front of you

i think i think you're just stuck yeah

you're just stuck in that mindset again

it's just stuck in the beta mindset

just

okay for the u.s capitol police in a

supplemental piece of legislation passed

by a single vote

um rather than investigate the failings

and hold those responsible accountable

okay this is about january 6. you

realize that right

and this is for the capitol police

they work for the federal government but

their jurisdiction is for washington dc

that's the capital police it's for all

of dc

good uncontroversial items such as

funding for the accrued overtime and

mental health counseling but the broader

measure

raised the fundamental questions about

the accountability and the permanent

creep of security forces that have

turned the us capital into a fortress

so this by splitting their vote they let

the budget expansion

but you this is like you're saying a

bunch of stupid [ __ ] things

it isn't stupid you're saying that it's

the local police department saying that

it's the local police department of

washington d.c but washington dc has

their own police department

has nothing to do with the with the

capital police washington dc

washington dc wasn't a state at the time

it's in their jurisdiction

didn't the vote pass with washington dc

to become a state

uh it might have passed in the house but

not in the senate yet all right

number two the congress and the senate

do not have

any sway over the the internal workings

of washington dc

they have their own mayor they have

their own city council

they might they might have they might

have their own mayor and their own city

council

but the capital police the capital

police the capital police has just

gotten a 2 billion dollar expansion

the capital police isn't just the

capital police isn't just

responsible for the capital it is

it isn't though it's literally also

responsible for washington dc

it's not i don't know what you're

talking about

okay look really quick do you have do

you have my baby i don't know really

quickly really quick do you have do you

have my stream up

oh yeah i do so cap it

tall right that is uh the capital

of a country right is

a is like the the the main city right

do you agree with that

so the way the way the way you start

the way you're talking to me is it's

just it's just

uh you're thought you're basically

talking down to me

i'm talking about because you're

incredibly [ __ ] stupid like you have

no i

think i think i think i think you're

just you're literally just stupid

you're in denial you're in denial that

the us is less democratic than china and

russia

oh that's that's nice that's not false

that's not false if i watch it

but i don't want to i don't want to hold

on real quick i don't want i don't want

you to pivot away

right that was a really clever and and

fun way for you to try and pivot away

from this point that you're getting

blown the [ __ ] out on right

but again and again again again capitao

i have someone who lived in dc for four

years who can testify that the capital

police is also the police of washington

dc okay well

your your friend that lived in uh in

washington dc for

for four years doesn't know anything

about the [ __ ] city that they live in

sorry buddy

um if you're if you're

if you're just gonna deny it like that

if you're just gonna deny it on my own

website let's see

capitol police

where does it say that

our mission

our mission protect the congress its

members employees visitors and

facilities so it can fulfill its

constitutional and legislative

responsibilities in a safe secure and

open environment

again if you're going if you're just

going to deny

if you're just going to deny a person

who's actually lived in washington dc

for four years

the well if they don't know what they're

talking about they don't know what

they're talking about i'm not completely

knows what he's talking about more than

you

you've never even touched you've

probably never even visited dc

what have you ever visited dc i have

oh wow did you did you see people

walking around with

with capitol police on their chest i

don't remember i was three years old

basically basically the capital police

are specifically for city governance and

some buildings whereas the

other federal bodies that do the informa

enforcement on federal land

so in the city itself the capital police

is also

is also in control

you just have confirmation bias it's not

confirmation bias it's looking up

information on

on the spot and finding out with a two

second google search that you're

just wrong on something but that's fine

i'm not strong on the future i don't

care about this point

because like you're just saying that

you're right and that's basically been

this entire conversation

you just no because i know i know that

actually

hold on i know that

it vladimir times i've i've proposed i

proposed

i've proposed for the an actual dc

native to get into the vc and explain it

to your dumbass

because clearly you don't [ __ ]

understand points you're just

too [ __ ] you're not on the same

intellectual level you're just [ __ ]

dumb you're just [ __ ] stupid that's

stupid as a rock

you can't [ __ ] understand that can

you tell me the difference between the

the the capital and the capital of the

united states

the capital the capital is the is the

the government building the main

government building the capital

is the city yeah but basically what you

don't understand

is that the capital police it isn't just

for the congress it's also responsible

for

basically the building of congress and

it cannot it's not just

local law enforcement but that doesn't

mean that it's it also it also

operates in the dc city area the urban

metropolitan area

that's what you do they protect

congress right there's different there's

different buildings all over

the city that the capitol building or

the that the capitol police protect

no that's just no that's just not true

they ought to just

put the federal do you think

they literally have dc metropolitan

police

they only operate in dc it's a local

[ __ ] police department it's basically

a local police department

okay yes we agree we agree on that they

relocate the metropolitan police do

no no no no i'm talking about the

capital police

of course they're basically a local

police department they fill

they fill the they fill the role of a

local police department in dc

then why does dc have its own police

department

because because dc isn't just going to

be guarded by the capitol police

as you said it's in conjunction

what role do you think that they have

the exact same roles

when they're when they're working in

conjunction with each other

what things do you think that the

metropolitan the captain police

and the metropolitan police are very

similar it's just that

they have different jurisdictions that's

the thing

and their roles aren't the exact same

because the capital police has more of a

uh an anti-anti-uh

anti-crowd role anti-protest role etc

etc

okay well i i'm i'm glad that's what you

feel you understand about the way that

municipalities and the capitol police

work

um

what else literally there's literally

like six police forces and

and [ __ ] dc it's the most heavy

probably the heaviest

they probably have the fbi they probably

have um the cia they have all sorts of

[ __ ] law

enforcement agencies to intelligence

agencies all over the [ __ ] city

you're right

okay okay okay and they just funded

basically two billion dollars

[ __ ] aoc funded two billion dollars

to a local police department

not to the local the police department

okay this is [ __ ] stupid i can't

[ __ ] believe this we need to move on

because you don't know what you're

talking about i don't know i don't know

you're just being stupid about it

i know the difference between a local

and capital police department

but how about how about we talk about

like the fact that russia isn't

a democratic state again all right

because we still haven't

if you're going to say the us is a

democratic state then russia definitely

is a democratic state

can you explain to me what might really

quick

let me see if you understand why i might

think that can you explain to me why i

might think that the us

is more democratic than russia

it can it can be described in two words

see this is what i'm talking about you

have western biases you have western

biases you just

you just assumed what i was about to say

yeah because you kept on saying that

anglo box every time you don't have an

argument you just say i have an anglo

box and western bias

all right that's because obviously you

you've just i don't think that you

actually understand

i don't think you would you just i don't

think that you actually understand

why i would think that the us is more

democratic

than because you're american because

you're american you have a superhero

reasons what reasons

because the system in russia oh oh

the democrats and the republicans are

the opposition

oh they're like they're actually facing

each other they aren't actually two

sides of the same coin they aren't

they aren't they aren't just in

reinforced by the system

this literally they're basically fake

opposition

they give you they give you the

sentiment of the democrat

for democracy but there's no democracy

in the u.s

also to say that the dc capital police

who's just going to guard who's just

going to guard the few federal buildings

is getting 2 billion dollars

i don't know i don't know about what

kind of what kind of things do you think

that that

no no no we're not i'm not letting you

pivot off of this because you're too

[ __ ] stupid to talk about law

enforcement

the political system though because you

can't talk about the police know about

smart enough to talk about

that i'm hoping that you can talk about

the political system

we gotta talk about the political system

if you're going to if you're going to

give

two billion dollars to just a police

department that's scouting federal

buildings just like that

that doesn't make sense that's way too

much that's way too much

all right so political systems what is

the what what sort of things that i

would would someone look at the us and

say it probably has

more more democratic

uh aspects to its political system

than the modern state of russia

because i can point you just because it

seems just because it seems

like it has more democratic uh

democratic influence in its system

doesn't mean it does because in

practicality

in practicality opposition in the us

is basically fake opposition it's not

real opposition

you're literally just dodging you're

dodging the fact that the us is more the

third

and then the then what do you mean that

there's no

do you think that all which opposition

do you think is controlled

is it the democrats that are controlled

or is it the republicans that are

controlled opposition

they're both they're both contr they're

both

serving the same goal they're just

giving you

they're just giving you they're giving

you the sentiment

of having control they're giving the us

population

the sentiment of a democracy the

sentiment of being a part of

the the the process of choice making

i okay so i don't necessarily disagree

right but we can look at the ways in

which

progress happens in the u.s and how it

generally

tends to uh match with the sentiments of

the populace

right and see that there is a

correlation

on how that happens right

no that's just purity at all what about

what about things like lgbt rights where

people

were were in favor of again

lgbt rights and all this i depaul is

just

away again i'm not doing it right now

i'm going i'm going i'm giving a

specific example

i can give you another one if you're if

you're scared of gay people we can talk

about uh

we can talk about how i'm not i'm not

scared if anything i'm just saying hey

then let's talk

about it no okay okay i'm gonna talk

about it yeah just let me finish the

sentence

all right basically uh lgbtq rights and

all of that stuff and blm

and all of this all of this id poll it's

just a way to distract you from the

from the real problem the real problem

with the system

the real problem with the system is that

you're just being distracted by the

democrats and the republicans into

thinking you're

actually in a struggle with for

something

even though the real struggle is the

class struggle where you're

struggling with the elite you're

struggling with the

system in place that won't [ __ ] that

won't [ __ ] change

do you really think if we just had class

parody that people would suddenly be

super okay with gay people

and trans people yeah yeah

you think that the num the only reason

that people would

would be angry at trans people is

because they're poor

again do you believe in materialism

yeah okay and it all ties back to

material

to material uh to the material situation

of people

that's why that's why all the

transphobia et cetera

because for example racism racism is

just a way to

to just it's just a way to blame

your your material problems on someone

else same for the lgbt homophobia and

all of that

once everyone wants everyone racism is

just a way to blame it on

on other people where do you think that

racism

came from when did our current

conceptualization of racism

start if by ours you mean near western

countries

is this is like a very western thing

well the 1800s would probably be a good

[ __ ] good i guess

okay i didn't ask when i asked what what

conceptual where did where did it come

from

came from slavery it came from it came

from

how the us was founded on bloodshed the

us was founded

on the fact that so basically the way

that we conceptualize race today

right is because white people were

trying to justify

the way that they treated black people

right

they weren't trying to blame their

problems on black people

they just they were it was unironic

white guilt

right they had to justify and say that

black people were literally other

other beings they weren't like really

really human they were sub-human

right and that's why it's okay for us to

enslave them right and those

scientific racist type arguments

persisted for a long time

and basically went throughout the

the population for a long time

and we're still trying to get out of

that right

again i think that's i think that's

pretty false because the

conception of face

oh you cut out hello

yeah hello can you hear me i can hear

you now yeah you said the conception of

raceway

the conception of racism the conception

of racism

uh in the us was driven by

uh it was driven by how

white people they basically it was their

material situation how they felt more

powerful they felt more stretched than

black people

and at one point when the when black

people freed themselves when there was a

all uh the the abolishment of slavery

etc

they they just started thinking that

black people were leeches

off of that uh off of their um

that reaches their wealth because black

people were just

poorest and uh how are they doing

we didn't even have social programs back

then

they were leeches because their pure

existence that

they their just existence just meant

that they would consume food they would

consume more water they'd consume more

stuff than gender

to like their basic needs that would

probably be put to better

uh uh to better causes by

in the view of like white rich white

people who use their own very

interesting me all right so you think

that white people

hated black people because they were a

waste of resources

after the after the abolishment of

slavery yes

holy [ __ ]

you you really are you really have no

conceptualization of

how the the situation in

the u.s

again i don't know i don't know what

you're talking about

when we're talking about what we're

talking about i don't know i can't i can

explain it to you i know that

i know that you really yeah

yeah of course they did at this point at

this point

you're just you're just talking out of

your

ass all of your points and basically all

of your points are basically

backing the us they're backing they're

backing the democrats they're backing

the old us system

you're just trying to justify i haven't

even had a chance to

actually just join the questions

trying to justify u.s new imperialism in

the world

i don't know you don't know what my

ideology is

yes you clearly do you clearly do

how the in what way

in this conversation did i support u.s

neocolonialism

the first of all pointing out that

russia

and china are both not as democratic as

the us how the u.s

and the democrats are the actual

opposition to the republicans etc

etc yeah they support neocolonialism

you're literally supporting the us

you're supporting neocolonialism

plus you support navalny i don't know

yes you do yes a democratic framework in

a country

so you what you will do is you will go

you'll go into a topic

and then you will pick out one thing

that you don't like that i said and then

you'll say that that is

proof that i believe a thing that has

nothing is completely disconnected

from the conversation that we were

having this is incredible this is proof

though it is proof though

it's proof though but you can't point

any proof other than the fact that

that's a lot of proof so far you've

pointed out so much

i'm so i'm so proud of you what proof

i've sent i've sent you articles

i've given you examples yeah [ __ ] you

haven't sent [ __ ]

you don't even understand how the dc

police work so i don't know what the

[ __ ] you're on about

again again here's literally like you're

[ __ ] better

like legit so when you read these books

do you have to have like a thesaurus

next to you

at all times in order to understand all

the words like i don't understand how

you can read

all this theory and like

i love how i love how as soon as it's as

soon as it gets to the point where

i don't point out that you don't have

any actual idea

you just start calling me irrelevant

this is what i do

i don't give a [ __ ] though nina yeah i'm

sure you don't give a [ __ ]

the fact that you're embarrassed

what a democracy is just a debate about

a country that assassinates politically

it's just better debating it's just

better like you should legit abandon

this

and even then you and haas you're

comparing me to us i literally destroyed

house

house destroyed you and i destroyed

house i literally can indict

i'd indirectly destroyed you even before

the debate

that's how bad you are at the [ __ ]

debate you should legit

you should legit turn into like a gaming

[ __ ]

stream or something yeah you're clearly

not good enough

i i don't know in what way that i

yeah but i don't give a [ __ ] i don't

even know if this has been a debate this

is

kind of like you're just soy you're just

soy

you just saw all of your political views

what does that mean to you

even your computer doesn't like you it's

[ __ ] crashing on

you're so [ __ ] ugly you make your pc

really quick what is it so [ __ ] okay

your pc crashes

you're just so [ __ ] ugly oh my god

oh my god yeah it's like literally

sweating you're sweating that's how hard

you're [ __ ] losing

it's just i think so so why am i losing

right now

you're just losing the debate you're

just losing that a bit

because i am no because you

all of your points have been destroyed

you you just which points

your personality is not charismatic like

me

you're you're not as smart as you've

been sitting

through like a million different points

that don't have anything to do with what

you believe

uh no no i think it's just you'd not

understand the points you're just not on

you're just not smart yeah you're just

like

you're doing 4d chess in this

conversation by talking about

by talking about imperialism

to be a democracy kid you're dog walter

you're literally dog walter

i'm dog that's right hey

what

again you'll keep begging for me too

please i'm begging you please tell me

what a democracy is you're just [ __ ]

dumb

you're just dumb i'm so dumb i'm sue i'm

so dumb

yeah really quick can you can you can

you tell me why russia is more

democratic than the u.s

yeah i don't care i have to hop off rtsg

oh i'm sure

you have to hop off you'll always be

losing you'll always be losing

yeah i have so you're running away yeah

yeah you're losing i'm not

i'm not running away it's 10 pm running

away i don't know why

running away because you don't know what

a democracy is okay you lost

you lost you're [ __ ] dumb at this you

should legit

rtsg on top you're always on

you'll always [ __ ] lose i'll always

[ __ ] lose

at least i know what a democracy is all

right buddy

oh did he hang up

uh