Haz from Infrared has a Interesting Discussion with Logo Daedalus 🚀 Infrared Content Catalog

it doesn't work for some reason with uh

discord but uh cool

it's working

do it on my phone

yeah how you been man

pretty good man you know um i've been uh

today i was just watching like i'm going

into like andrew sullivan like the guy

who's like the national security council

chief right now um i was watching his

[ __ ] with on the aspen institute

uh it's pretty spooky stuff

oh yeah what's what's going on

um do you know what the aspen institute

is

no idea

it's uh it's like this old like eugenic

thing created in like the like 1940s

like you know it was created by like the

carnegies the rockefellers uh you know

these sorts of people gates lumina ford

foundation

etc um but this is like they have like

their own youtube channel and they have

like talks with people and it's like uh

no one ever watches them but um

like this has a thousand views on it but

it's uh

it's that it's like the national

security advisor just like laying out

what the biden foreign policy is gonna

be

um i think it's like mysterious so

what's what's actually going on on that

front

uh it's really not that mysterious right

they're just saying like he's just

saying like we have to like defend

taiwan against china you know and uh

that uh that's our foreign policy

basically like there's a lot he uses a

lot of euphemisms and he doesn't go that

deep into specifics but that's the gist

of it

one thing that's kind of spooky is that

he specifically says that taiwan's

approach to fighting this information

is something that we should uh

use here

what's what is uh taiwan's approach

that's what i've been looking into like

right now i'm trying to

look into that

i feel like that would be uh spooky

though

whatever it is

how are you doing man um

you know i'm debating that guy again

tomorrow the hegelian fake alien guy the

fake [ __ ] yeah a guy's a [ __ ] poser

man he's uh he like it's just really

funny like he was like he doesn't even

know what the [ __ ] he's talking about

yeah um

it's just [ __ ] exhausting you know

it's just tiring

but

you know uh i was meaning to ask you

and i didn't mean to ask you someone in

chat wants to know what do you think

about the

the us leaving afghanistan to like give

china problems

i don't think that's true i don't think

that's happening because actually um

like i saw that but actually like biden

was just saying that they're sending

more troops to afghanistan now to defend

the afghan government force yeah uh i

could go you there was an npr article

right to evacuate the embassy

um let me just read it

i have it up i like tweet okay biden

deploys more troops following taliban

advances afghanistan that was a 5 a.m

this morning

well

yeah i think people who are saying that

is kind of a cope like this idea that

like like that's actually kind of almost

putting too much of the competence into

the hands of these people when like

they're actually just like uh

they're like larping as if they're as

like capable to do uh what we did in

like the earlier part of the 20th

century but like they are also like a

moribund institution themselves they

don't really uh

you know what i mean like they don't

have that they're not like we're not

dealing with like [ __ ] like

alan dulles here like these people are

they're they're stupider and they're

worse out let me let me tell you

something i was debating

i was debating someone

yeah and i want to debate them again

and they told me that according to the

the survey which is 100 reliable called

the survey of the afghan people and like

a bunch of others actually the taliban

are extremely unpopular in afghanistan

and that the majority of afghan people

want the us to stay

and that it's uh according to the people

that pulled right like that was like so

yeah yeah so my question is is that

if that's true

and that like the

asking the us and nato to stay is the

expression of like

national self-determination then how

come the minute the u.s like pulls out

the taliban [ __ ] rapidly takes

everything over how does that work

oh well we all know that legit well this

is one of the things i was pressing amy

on in the debate right where i was

talking about like legitimacy like what

legitimacy means like what a government

you know what i mean like if a

government has or does not have

legitimacy so it's like the reason why

the taliban is able to do that is

because they have legitimacy you know

what i mean it's like because people

will reckon you know like that's what

affords it it is like an actual like

fact like it's a possibility space or

however you would want to put it in a

political action

and um that's why i mean obviously like

the taliban was never like unpopular or

something it's like they were just

against our interests

yeah i mean um

the whole thing with amy is like i don't

know i do have criticisms of her but

like i just don't want her to take it

personally you know

like i'm not like a hater you know but

so you want to like a hater but i'm more

of like you know like if you're

hammering on the same thing for like

over a year and there's like been no

growth in like your your development

yeah like i'm trying to like

like be like if you're not going to like

grow and you're not going to like

progress and you're not going to like

produce new insights then like then

you're just taking up space

so this is something that's really

important to learn from

dialectics right

when you when you get into a one-sided

position

you end up

basically assuming

the thing

you're attempting to contrast yourself

uh from but in another way

like i'll give you an example of this

this is like the best example i can

think of so i remember a lot of those

leftists who were like super

against wokeness right and liberals

woke liberals and sjws whatever

which is great right

but then maybe yeah sometimes

yeah yeah but then something strange

started to happen right

they went beyond the mere opposition to

the like phenomena of woke people and

started to kind of like attack the

material source and what i mean by that

is it's like then they started to go so

far as to say that

all

nationalism is uh to be opposed as like

a result of liberal wokeness like as if

malcolm x was secretly like a [ __ ]

you know secretly he was like this like

they made it seem like they didn't

understand the difference between people

who are being opportunistic with

something real and the real thing itself

is that if that makes sense so yeah in

actual fact what they ended up doing

was assuming the very position of the

professional liberal managerials

in their kind of universalistic

condemnation of like black

separatism or nationalism and um

anti-colonial it's like i get it i get

how woke people

use those as a kind of whatever slave

morality or whatever they want to say

and you know they use those as a kind of

extension of wokeness treating it like

uh

national self-determination movements

around the world as some kind of um

marginal groups resisting oppression i

get that but

that they're it's like they're they're

they're confusing that with the thing

itself that like the thing in itself you

know what i mean yeah they they

they

well it's like because they're right to

note that a lot like when if like joe

biden starts talking about malcolm x or

something like that like that's not

like the cynical deployment of these

things uh like severed from their

historical meaning

and uh and just like presented in that

sort of idolatrous fashion is always

like a bad thing it's it's why the

hegelian idea of negation of negation is

so important because the whole point of

it is basically like

when you the negation itself must be

negated like what i mean by that is that

you have to arrive

at like a deeper sense of positive being

and i'll give you a concrete example

like for example like in revolutions

right

so usually in a revolution what happens

is that the revolutionaries who are

urban right primarily urban

they go about

attacking the you know the old order

within the urban confines and they you

know they go crazy and then

something strange happens

the countryside rises up

um seizing the moment and basically

affirming all of the

affirming the real positive being of the

revolution

and just because they don't do it on the

terms of this uh urban people the the

revolutionaries become the

counter-revolutionaries right that's the

the oldest story in the book the

revolution happens then the countryside

wakes up and the revolutionaries become

the counter revolutionaries because

yeah the cities become in the crosshairs

it becomes like it's almost like a

[ __ ] comedy like a tragedy right well

yeah i'm gonna apply this to like the

bible in a way where you can even see

like you know like moses is like leading

people towards the promised land but he

like doesn't get to go into it like

that's also happens with like uh like

revolutionary movements where it's like

uh

like because the countryside is like

ultimately what has to you know like

everyone has to like take take it in you

know the the ruling class of the

revolution or whatever is um they kind

of have to abolish themselves also that

yeah it is like very hegelian but i get

all my dialectics from like just what i

would call like divine ironies or

something or like contrappasso yeah

but it's exactly the same thing

you know and and so i i don't know i

mean um i think in the case of amy i

just think she kind of dwells in this

like

unhappy so the unhappy consciousness

yeah yeah yeah where it's like it's this

permanent negation and it's it's you're

coming full circle

and kind of arriving at a position that

epitomizes the very thing

you

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drove to um contrast yourself with in

regards to so for example like i agree

with a lot of the stuff amy says she

talks about how like she

the way in which capitalism devours the

traditional

you know what there there was an

argument amy kind of had with you that i

kind of was a little bit sympathetic to

amy with and it was the thing about

feudalism so i agree with you in the

sense that

feudalism um from our i mean feudalism

was an entirely corrupt

thing right especially toward the later

stages it was pretty much it was pretty

much the modern capitalism but

disguising itself in the old

feudal forms right that's pretty much

kind of what happened um

but there is this kind of

truth in the in the idea that

utilism did represent this kind of

substantive

uh

substantive like life

like tradition and culture and

substantive social bonds and a sense of

coherent meaning in life and things like

that

and just this kind of consistency i

guess if that makes sense

um

and not necessarily just feudalism but

traditional life in general before

modern capitalism

and capitalism kind of the capitalism

pretty much overturns all of that so

that and this is a really traumatic

thing like you know this is like proper

the popularization is what

it's called you know

and landlessness and all that following

the enclosures and [ __ ]

and

although necessary it's like not

necessarily something to be celebrated

right but

i don't know i kind of disagree on that

point oh really yeah go ahead i'm not

i'm not like you educated about history

so you could well it's just like

like well futile like you know feudalism

is like it has like its own development

and like be like you know you can't like

equating where it's like there's this

notion where we had this sort of

timeless like uh enclosed space of like

harmony that was the medieval world like

it was always rife with his own

dialectics and like it was a time of

like a lot of warfare they were like on

smaller scale than what is possible

under capitalism things like that like

certainly like uh technology and like

the progression and all of these other

ways affords more evil just as it

affords more good

but i like uh i i don't think like

there's so much we take for granted like

on the smallest level that um like mass

literacy for instance right like

math literacy is like i think uh like

really the the that's like uh the

foundation right like like

what we don't even know what it's like

to be a surf like and not be able to

like re like you literally like you

can't imagine or like put yourself in

that consciousness precisely because i

know it's totally alien no no i i

completely agree it's it's kind of like

dialogue like that the kind of um did

the

the um

the image of the kind of like meaningful

wholesome past is something created by

yeah it's like actually this notion of

you lost yeah

as a production of capitalism because

like people weren't

yeah like but i still think i still

would insist though that despite all the

things you talked about

there is still a way that pre-modern and

traditional life

made life somehow

bearable and like there wasn't an

existential crisis every generation is

what i'm trying to say like people

somehow just survived and

they had traditions that they passed on

and there was wars and there was a lot

of turmoil and chaos but

um yeah but like but anytime like let's

say like you know then they start going

like oh like we're gonna start reading

books and then like they start reading

books and they're like hey like we have

our own ideas and then it's like oh like

now i'm being put to death no yeah i

mean

that's usually something that happened

like

in cities right like with the guilds and

medieval city i mean i'm not just

talking about the medieval um

europe i'm also talking about like

also asian

uh traditional asian societies as well

and the islamic world and so on and so

on yeah it's like no i don't think those

things should be erased or like

disappeared but i think that those

things like the spirit of those things

can be preserved and like that's part of

what i think the 21st century is

probably going to be a lot of with like

china especially i'm not i'm not trying

to like i'm not one of those like return

to the i'm not one of those people who's

uh trying to look romantic you're not an

anarcho primitive no i'm i'm not

romanticizing pre-capitalist life um

there's a reason why

modernity was necessary not just from

like a utility not from a utilitarian

perspective but like historical

perspective necessary but

i do think that it is it does kind of

follow the hegelian

drama of like you uh original being in

the negation and then the negation of

the negation and to me

capitalist modernity is that kind of

negation you know

yeah so now like that's what i'm saying

is like we're at the point of where it's

like like we're starting to look more at

like the pre-capitalist societies yeah

and stuff

not return to them because yeah but

still just like you know to to to to

bring them back like through like

through this sort of uh

yeah yeah marshall mcluhan called this

like the retrieval function of like the

a new media ecology like every time

there's a new media environment you

actually are also it like serves as a

means of retrieving things that were

like lost like from the past yeah um so

and like uh i think that's like a huge

thing of like what's happening right now

and um

in general

so but

the thing i don't get about amy or i

think i kind of get it but that's why i

disagree with her is um

so it's like it doesn't seem like she's

willing to accept

that the the subjective truth she has

arrived at

is is reproduced in objective reality

independently of like her and what i

mean by that is like

i mean okay you want to talk about the

working class uh traditionalism or

something it's like look at china that's

what china is china

yeah yeah exactly china is the very

china is like the very site at which the

subjective truth you've arrived at

exists objectively you know

it's it's precisely where

not just china but it's like that is

precisely the site of where people

like she talks about the way capitalism

breaks down tradition culture and

the working class and but the examples

of people who have united

populist working-class authentic

working-class movements with their

culture and tradition and national

whatever like in um

the socialist countries and in china it

seems like amy

is really dismissive and like not open

to

exciting i just don't think that she

reads much or is like that interested in

like and i'm not saying this to like

insult her because i was actually very

much in a similar state before too like

i was in a state like before i learned

about china i was the type of person who

was like oh you know like i've read so

much about marxism and philosophy like

like how could it possibly be that the

world is already reconciled in some kind

of way like china oh china's just like a

capital yeah any why like they're doing

they're doing something without my

sanctions yeah exactly

china's just like foxconn and the

[ __ ]

suicide nets and it's like

but you don't really realize i think

it's it's an inability to understand

like an authentic

objective reality of otherness like

there is a real otherness out there

that's independent of you

absolutely and the fact that it's like

the east itself like they eat like

because what is the east but like china

frankly um

that is a

like extremely like sort of like

symbolic in my mind and like um the more

i've like gotten interested in china and

read more about it like i see more of it

in like things or like how my own

intellectual development like led me to

this interest or in it like i feel like

it's been a very natural progression

like uh same people don't really

understand like i i remember believing

like all the [ __ ] about china and i

just like had never had any reason to

look into it more and then i started

taking it like very seriously because i

was like you know this is like one place

that i actually don't know like i'm not

super well versed in

china and like the history of china and

all this stuff and it's like so large

it's like such a huge um thing to you

know start to wrestle with or grapple

with

but you know like reading like ezra

pound and all these other people uh like

chinese stuff and like i've i've always

loved like loud sin and like transit

like uh chinese philosophy was always

important to me even when i was like a

teenager so

you know

a kind of natural not all natural but we

just have a prejudice that when we

arrive at a subjective truth we are

somehow above objective reality and

objective being

and the eastern way of thinking um

i don't know if this is the eastern way

of thinking or just maybe the pre-modern

way of thinking

is actually the opposite that when we

exhaust our

subjective

capacities

we just reveal the extent of our

finitude in relationship to objective

reality in other words like we we become

humble to the fact that like the world

is so much bigger than us and

so much

there's so much more

to it than we could have imagined now

you can call that the world you can call

it god you can call it being but

it's it's like

when we subjectively arrive at a truth

we we're not raised above reality we're

precisely brought to

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our finitude in relationship to it

and i think that's i think that's a

really important lesson of marx and

marxism because you know if you really

think about it the first example of this

the thing we're talking about is marx

himself

mark's

um

i mean he reached the pinnacle the

height of thought

itself at the time

uh which was hegelian philosophy which

he mastered

and

marx was brought to the very humbling

conclusion that

the the the real truth of this

thought this subjective truth if you

will

or absolute knowledge or whatever the

real truth of that was

something that already existed in

reality which was the proletariat it was

a

and of all things the proletariat right

like of all things

uh the the most kind of destitute

landless and

kind of

yeah i mean there's some extent to which

i feel as if um when people make or like

marx's own like criticisms of hegel and

things like that i wonder how much of it

is like filtered through

um because like he's marxism is like

isn't the same generation of hegelians

but like this is like going down the

line of apostolic succession or whatever

of hegelianism that uh like a lot of uh

like the people who came after hegel

kind of aren't um you know they aren't

hegel himself so they are like uh i

wonder how much of like certain parts of

it were emphasized or not in his own

education because that's how i've like

interpreted hegel generally right

because like the real like he says like

the right like you know the like reality

is like the ultimate principle like um

yeah that's the whole point you know

like no matter what you know uh yeah

it's it's it remains to really be known

if i think i think the reason i think

it's really hegel's philosophy of right

and the way in which people were using

it that

remarks represented that hegel got

himself into like a problem

um kind of but it's like but it's like

it's not higgle so much as like the fact

that like hey

and then there's like 50 more years you

know like then like

yeah definitely definitely i mean um

i do think you know marx did arrive at

something unique

it wasn't just yeah what he does it what

i think what marks it like the more the

bigger thing is is that marx is bringing

hegel into like conflict with the school

of like british empiricism you know like

british and like political economy like

that's like he's uh there's a there's

like a general long like um pretty

interesting just intellectual history of

things passing for back and forth

between like germany and uh and england

um like just in like the reformation too

or like you know you could think of like

calvinism versus lutheranism as a sort

of dialectic and things like that um

that that i think is like what is the

most uh influential thing about marx is

like that straddling that line yeah i

agree and you know um

to me i think it's it's kind of sad to

see like

i don't know i don't want to keep [ __ ]

talking amy especially kind of rude like

she can't even know i wanna actually i

just like wish you would like try harder

you know it's like just like like if you

like i'm not i think that she has like

her heart in the right place you know

generally but it's just like and i see

this happen with a lot of people but

it's like if you if you want to be like

a writer and like produce like new

insights into this sort of stuff and

like you're devoted to this in like a

real sense and not just kind of in a

like

um sitting back and like you know just

like doing whatever uh gets a lot of

retweets and stuff like it's just

it that's just seems like like i'm bored

of talking about how western leftists

are [ __ ] [ __ ] or whatever and

it's like frankly it's like if you can't

produce something better than what

they're producing you're just like being

like what i was going to say like i just

find it weird how

cause i i don't know i've known about

her tweets

her twitter presents for like a few

years

so i've known like i have i've not been

a podcast guy but i know like the

limited extent of like her criticisms

and how much like especially like the

war and [ __ ] which to be fair she called

that [ __ ] right like she talked to me

yeah no no she's like that all that

stuff is like she was like totally on

point for a lot of stuff but the thing

is one of the things that kind of

disappoint me is it's like how do you

come to a conclusion of like left com

endnotes type of

you know what i mean like isn't that

exactly like

i remember like she was always so

critical of these like ultra left

rules and like anarchists and like chaz

but it seems like it's come full circle

and now like um

she's adopted this kind of position of

these endnotes left com type of people

i don't see how those people are like in

any way

representing um

the working class i think it's it's just

a complete defeatism it's just that's

like the the red that's the

defeatism

yeah it's like kind of just like

nihilism um and nihilism is really

popular and it's like probably the

biggest problem that we have to confront

i think is just like nihilism so there's

a sense also i think like like uh

um a lot of these people like post

leftists going into like you know kind

of like conservative thought or whatever

like kind of being like disenchanted

with the western left then like are like

oh like i also like i'm disenchanted

with uh the everything historically that

has ever been called the left that's

right that's exactly it and it's like

at what point this is this was i guess i

would pose this question to her if i had

a chance to talk to her i would just ask

at what point

is everything fake in a farce like for

example

the kind of traditional family life

that you find so human and anything any

substantive content of humanity

whatsoever what's to say that this too

isn't just some kind of like

trick of capitals so and for the

bourgeoisie to reap because left comes

will i mean it logically follows from

the views of left comms that

things like the family

much everything we consider

substantively human are just like

the result of capital and the result of

the bourgeoisie and like you know like

at what point

do you lose the ability to reference

what capital took away

like what substantive humanity has

capital taken away in the first place if

everything is just

capital everything yeah

everything's capital like

like why should anyone you know what i

mean like all this populism that amy

seemed to like support

i don't see how left calm thinking is

compatible with populism like the whole

it's not what they say is that like oh

populism is just

another expression of bourgeois you know

democratic uh

you know yeah yeah yeah like it's it's

just it's just like the like this is

like a you know i've been reading a lot

of i was like rereading some marks and

angles stuff like the letters and like

so i wanted to read marx's writing on

china and like his coverage of that

stuff but so i was stumbling into a

bunch of other stuff but uh like him

writing about the critical critics or

whatever like he has this whole thing of

like uh calling them the critical

critics like the double critics like the

super critics the ultra critics or

whatever

like being um like and their inability

to have like a substantive project

because of this uh this sort of a

pathology of um just like uh you know uh

if you can just like uh that's the

unhappy consciousness as we've been

saying you know it's like if you don't

have any vision

of like there being any sort of positive

project or good in the world you know

like you're gonna you're like basically

like in this sort of warped gnostic

cosmology where like the only escape is

like is uh just through your like pure

in subjective rejection of things and

and to be clear it's not just amy like

i've spent the past like few years

witnessing people that i thought were

like super

end up in this trap of one-sidedness

where they they

it's it's like i mean you have to think

about how how do things that like

marxist would call revisionism and

whatever opportunities how do those

things happen it happens because

there's a lack of a kind of dialectic

insight there's a lack of an ability to

keep hold of the essence of things

and

that this kind of one-sidedness leads

people to conclusions that completely

betray the essence of their original

position

yeah i think it comes out i think i

think that is the story of the post left

in general i think that's like what

explains them you know like

they've just come full circle and

they've they've gotten themselves into

like a uh

a trap

well they're effectively like this

already happened in the 20th century and

this is where the neocons came from you

know like it's not really

that weird like this it's like this has

just already happened before

many times it's like a pretty standard

cycle in american politics actually um

and it's like really sad because most of

the time like uh it's like warping um

people's uh desires to do something that

would actually be good but just like uh

to like to defend uh

you know the [ __ ] national security

state you know like you end up being

like i you learn to love big brother

basically it's like this that's like uh

you could say that sort of thing

what kind of happened was like

they ended up realizing like oh it's

about western civilization and the

judeo-christian

legacy that makes possible marxism and

communism in the first place yeah but

that's all fake like they even admit

that like that's all um they like say

like this is like just the the noble why

we're telling like they're they take a

lot of inspiration from some parts of

plato that other people don't read

specifically about like the nocturnal

council in uh the book of the laws which

is like basically what the cia is is

like the conception of like the

nocturnal council

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i've never heard of it but yeah that's

like strauss yeah if you read like um

this is like uh you know that was their

big thing is like that you have to have

like this machiavellian nocturnal

council who's like cloaked from um other

people's not like the public's knowledge

of what they're doing but because

they're working for their ultimate good

i have another question for you um

so i see you talking about the tradition

of commonwealth as opposed to

yeah maybe what else and i was thinking

commonwealth to me is very similar to

res publica right or it is it's very in

its and beyond res publica it's also

very similar to

other denotations of like common

civilization you find in other cultures

i mean i i guess maybe in the islamic

context it would be like the caliphate

or something and then in china

would be like you know some kind of

i don't know what they would call it but

all of these cultures seem to have

some kind of like

common

an acknowledgement of just like a common

good right that is instantiated in the

form of the politics yeah you know what

i mean but like like can you imagine

like otherwise like i guess this is sort

of the racist argument is that like like

oh other con other cultures conceptions

of the common good are like so

diverged from ours that like they're not

even the same similar they don't contain

like the same sort of things yeah yeah

um

so i guess my question would be though

like

what actually distinguishes the the

commonwealth the english commonwealth

from these other kinds of because you

know for example like

in history there's all every kind of

mate polity and

has some kind of common good right

so i

if we understand what distinguishes

commonwealth maybe we have a better idea

of like

america right in american soil yeah

well basically uh like the commonwealth

is the notion that like that it is just

identical it was like how they

translated the republic republic into

like english basically right because

like republic risk publica like this is

a latin term but like when it was like

the english laymen or whatever like the

commonwealth men and who like fought for

cromwell and stuff their whole notion

was that um every like all the people in

the gov like should be

uh you know capable of like governing

essentially right and like they're like

so not only are you like uh was this had

to do had to do a lot with like land

reform and stuff but it was like um it

had a lot to do with uh the this is like

where the chartists and stuff come from

too like that like wanting um universal

suffrage and things like that so um

that's like where a lot of uh our

tradition comes from in like the the uh

this is like where socialism and all

this stuff comes from right is like

people talking about like how do you

manage the commonwealth and things like

this like what like you have to like

first like produce the commonwealth so

that like that is the state that you

have right and uh there were times like

you know uh massachusetts for instance

is uh the commonwealth of massachusetts

it's not technically a state because

it's been a commonwealth longer than it

was a state

you know um

i saw a tweet you shared you retweeted

that said and and the notion of

commonwealth contrasts with the

machiavellian neo-roman views

you know specifically what that's

referring to

i i think i have an

idea um

well there that this is like a big um

chain like this is like a development

that happens in like the uh like anglo

or like british uh imperial like party

system um

where it it it's like a long story you

know like it has its own like dialectic

within it right like uh there's like

that's so it's like hard to give like a

really a short summation on that but um

basically like there's a there's a

there's just a difference in the way the

political economy works between um who

are called the commonwealth men and like

you can trace their tradition to like

the chartists but also to like the wigs

mostly like more of the uh and like uh

but uh but uh in america they were like

the uh the the radical wigs or like the

true wigs is what they call themselves

and um this is like from

what's his name like gordon and

trenchard wrote this book called kato's

letters which was like their uh this is

like the what this is like the text that

really informed most american political

thinking at the time of the revolution

but uh there was this other school of

like um that kind of comes out of like

the british east india company um

of like political economics political

calculation and that's like sort of

where all these like technocratic

notions come from like for instance um

like neo-liberalism is itself like over

100 years old as a name because like you

go back to like the peel lights and this

is like bentham's friends and stuff like

trying to institute the panopticon and

doing like police reforms um they were

like they considered themselves like

progressive liberals right like they

were like we have to we're we're like

we're the man they're a sort of

nocturnal council idea too right where

they're like we are sort of like the

vanguard of the people so we have to

like manage these things and we have to

manage them and like you know we can't

ask the people because if we let the

people manage it themselves they [ __ ] it

all up right so yeah it sounds to me

that the basic distinction is this you

can some sway so with the notion of

commonwealth you have

some kind of like economic

social contract if you where people are

given a piece of the pie

kind of govern themselves

right to be a part of it

yeah the neo-roman view or whatever uh

the machiavellian i don't know what

would have the political economy

you have a kind of more

central uh

government

which treats people as things

does it it treats them as kind of like

an object of

administration

towards some kind of unknowable end do

you think do you think that's like kind

of

yeah yeah yeah that's pretty good that's

pretty good yeah yeah so that you can

also see like in the seeds of that right

where like our are sort of things that

are closer to communism in america

establish themselves in libertarianism

because they're like very skeptical of

this notion of

like they hate like the current

government right because they call it

communism because they imagine communism

as this like central dictating like

force that like determines what you're

doing and treats you like an object etc

and they're like correct to diagnose our

situation as that and and it's and like

they're they're correct in so many ways

they're just misled by like parts of the

like conservative like military

establishment to like be anti-communist

for foreign politic foreign policy ends

you know like uh

but uh but

you know they're they're not wrong to

like hate what they're calling communism

and

the thing is is that what they're

calling communism is just like

progressive liberal imperialism well

that's the thing is that a lot of people

don't realize that even if you go as far

as back as marx

um

marx was pretty clear that

uh i think we discussed this before but

marx was critiquing the kind of um

universalism of the bourgeois state

according to which

um

humanity has no existence but an

abstract kind of existence that

and and that as a matter of fact

capitalism was just the

expression of this fact

it's not like when marx critiqued

private property and this is i actually

we should address this because i

remember that tweet and then this dumb

[ __ ] like quote and he's like oh yeah

what marx wanted was more cool locks and

this guy's so there's a few things to

break down with like a [ __ ] stupid it

was like podcasters or chapo people what

they were saying

so it's important to understand that you

have to read marx's critique of private

property very carefully

marx

doesn't critique private property in the

sense of you know he has some kind of

perverse desire to like make everyone a

singular object of one will

marx actually recognizes in private

property

um some kind of estranged human i guess

essence

and

part of that

um insofar as it relates to the

relationships between other human beings

all the some of the things we associate

with private property such as like

independence uh dignity um even privacy

uh honor

those things for marx are precisely

destroyed by the institution of private

property so mar when marx critiques

private property he's not so much

critiquing a quote unquote kulak's like

these kind of like peasant independents

he's critiquing the centralizing and

universalizing institution

uh

instantiated in the state of private

property he's not critiquing the essence

of private property which for him is

something human um objectively human and

real he's critiquing

the

um private property as an institution so

it's it's almost like marx is critiquing

what americans think of as communism

right

the second actually

just like one last thing

is we need to be very clear with these

[ __ ] people because they're trying to

rewrite history when they say kulak

right

the kulak was not some kind of like

independent peasant who was moderately

well off

those were the middle peasants and in

the debates in the late 20s during the

soviet union there were three factions

so there was bukharin

who was wagering on the kulaks who were

like the top ten percent of peasants

very wealthy and they were very

parasitical right

there was trotsky who was wagering on

the poor peasants who were also a

minority they pretty much had nothing

and you know they were almost like

destitute like very very poor peasants

right

and and that's where these [ __ ] bread

tube podcasters are coming from they are

wagering on like the marginal and the

very poorest of the poor right but

stalin's position was the middle peasant

uh and the middle peasant was the

overwhelming majority of peasants

and they were not koolocks they were

middle peasants and that though that was

the subject of stalinism

so yeah they're they're trying to

basically say that the peasantry are the

peasantry as such

are koolocks

which is yes the exact opposite of the

experience in history the the what

they're just [ __ ] trying to disc uh

in so many words

basically prove that they're just

[ __ ] trotsky's they're trotsky's who

hate the peasantry from the perspective

of um

urban uh

urban and you know uh rationalistic

modernity you know yeah because they're

just like this object that's in the way

because they they like none of these

people are actually working class people

or very rarely are they or if they are

they um their their ascent has been

through adopting the sort of like

progressive liberal like trotskyite like

you know kind of like anglo-socialist

like fabian democratic socialists this

sort of perspective this is like what

they've cultivated their like social

capital as like going into like

university or whatever this is like you

know such a [ __ ] common story so so

like to them like their note that like

the peasantry is uh actually in their

way because uh they they want to just be

able to um you know direct like they're

imagining themselves when they're uh

crafting their policies and their minds

or whatever as like just like directing

people around and they're like oh these

people right these people wouldn't just

like do whatever they're told

you know to do i think they're trying to

gaslight us as to the i think this is a

something i would say is that marx's

proletariat was inevitably going to

merge and alter the peasantry in other

words there was always a peasant element

to the proletariat itself if you look at

how marx talks about the proletariat he

speaks of them in the in a redemptive

sense that they are it's almost like

they are peasants struggling to

reacquire land

they are

there's they are a dignified humanity

that's lost everything

but which is reacquiring its humanity

right

but what these people think marx is

talking about is is some kind of like

marginal even lumpin or criminal you

know i don't know i don't know what they

are

brooklyn hipster who who's like

disaffected because they got kicked out

of their you know suburban house with

their parents like that's not what marx

is talking about in fact

the proletariat marx and engels talk

about is in in ways profoundly

culturally conservative

you know engels talks about how

the proletariat puts up signs saying

thieves will be shot on sight

it thinks like that you know like things

that these people would would assume was

like kulak type behavior which is this

kind of

sense of independence and um

discipline and honor and things like

that like that

that those were asked the proletariat

was not just some kind of monstrous

depravity it wasn't just some kind of

like mass of lumpin

slum dwelling criminals

and you know

marginalized people

the proletariat was

um

a class

that was uh

the salt of the earth yeah

yeah yeah it's it's almost like they're

the salt of the earth but who were

displaced from their earth

that makes sense yeah struggling to

re-acquire it and struggling to

recapture it right yeah and the reason

and then yeah no what happened

yeah what happened in the 20th century

more or less was that

the proletariat merged again with the

peasantry they it was revealed that the

proletariat i mean like that's why when

we speak of the working class today

we're we're referring to like a

peasantry in america right but it is

also i think i would argue it is also

the proletariat marx was talking about

it's just that this proletariat

um

reacquired some kind of like peasant

existence but an existence that was

fundamentally altered by

the proletarianization if that makes

sense yeah well the thing is is like

they're the they're who are they they're

the people who bear like the brunt of

all of this you know like they're the

people who bear that like bear the

[ __ ] cross

uh of like all of this sort of paul like

everything that happens in the state or

whatever so like that's like part of the

reason why like you know this class of

like western leftists especially like um

they uh they don't real like they're not

usually of this class of people um yeah

themselves it's because they they only

recognize the proletariat as something

negative they only they think the

proletariat just means like people who

are poor and people who are mad and

disaffected with life

but i mean that's not just this is not

the case that that also refers to

d-classed

like criminal elements that marx does

not consider

um yeah

yeah like the lump in doesn't just

include like criminals but it's also

like [ __ ] like hack journalists and

[ __ ] like that you know i mean it's

today like the london would be like the

actors like yeah are like killer clown

psychos who have just gone crazy and

just

complete psychotic um deranged people

no i think the lump in or like like i do

think that like you know you look at the

like that i would call like the project

of choppa chop out trap house why is it

called trap house like why is it

affecting the it's like it's already

affecting this lump in veneer of like

we're in the [ __ ] trap house and you

know what's pathetic is that

within for example american black

culture there is a genuine authentic

national element

like a yeah a genuine culture real

culture real soul right so a lot of like

black culture and music

it seems like it's only lumping whatever

but it's not it's it's also giving

expression to an authentic yeah well do

you know what that so here's the idea

here's the thing with with chapel chapel

literally just abstracts the element of

like

criminality from the soul and from like

the national so they are lit the chapel

was literally like the true lumpin

like called platform

yeah it is this is what we've been

saying for forever i mean uh we were

calling them the lump in bourgeois for

like years ago even but that's like what

it is and and as you were saying there

is like this element of like authentic

culture and like let's say like rap like

rap music like celebrates ostensibly

like the trap house and like you know

drug dealing and criminality and stuff

but that's not true like that's that's

true of like what like record producers

are like funding very specifically you

know it's not like and like true

and even then even two white teenagers

right yeah even even in the case where

it is though it's like

um

the the fact of running a foul with the

law is

is is a part of the reality because the

law doesn't respect the sovereign

uh it's it's like that in in any case

where you have one nation occupying

another

one of the forms of not resistance but

just inevitable things that are going to

result is a lack of respect for laws i

mean they're not your laws and it's a

form of resistance to disrespect the law

when the law does not represent you you

know

um

and also i mean a lot of the times

there's tragical element like not

necessarily

that this is like all good [ __ ] it's

just like this is life this is the

struggle of life

and all all of those like things

chapel trap house like

like let's be let's be [ __ ] woke and

just be like they are literally [ __ ]

that like that is cultural appropriation

yeah that's what it is like it is a

genuine sense of like appropriating and

whitewashing

that you know

yeah

so 100 and the thing is is that uh it's

like it's also like this is why uh like

they they don't they don't appreciate

that there's also like in what if you

want to call it white culture or like

white working class culture uh they

fundamentally can't understand that

stuff either like uh

that's what i'm

that's why they're so parasitical

because they're trying to steal black

culture

and that's and that abstraction is all

they have they are literally just like

this lumping parasitical

yeah

these like brooklyn podcasters or

whatever the [ __ ] these chapel people

it's like basically you can look at it

like this man so they it's like you you

can like the democrats or the real

racist thing is like also true so um in

this sense in this sense right like they

have this notion of like the cool black

gangster or whatever and um and like

this is a guy who's like too cool to

like be involved with anything and like

doesn't really really care or whatever

and uh and uh you know and like does

drugs and it's like you know really cool

whatever has a fan club etc and um this

is like their no [ __ ] this is their

notion of like authenticity or like this

is their conception of the proletariat

and it's like them imagining themselves

as being like

like that person

and then um so like they can't recognize

like uh like oh like johnny cash is

basically the same thing as a rapper you

know or like there's like country

musicians there's like this whole other

element of like

white working-class culture which is the

exact same like it's literally like just

a twin growth in american culture um uh

expressing like the same sentiments

in uh like the sa oh in the forms that

are like pretty much identical like you

listen to like a talk in blues album or

whatever and it's like this is just it's

all just rap or like early like you know

villains sounding like they're both

they shy away from that is because

they're trying to avoid the real meaning

of these things which is their authentic

working-class uh origins they want to

turn it into something that justifies

their lump and so

it's almost like they're trying to use

other people to justify their own like

social depravity basically yeah and like

like you know like they like uh they're

constantly bragging about like you know

when they're on tour they're like oh

yeah we're doing so much coke and

ketamine and we're going clubbing and

it's just like you're this is a podcast

for the working class like is this what

like the working

like it's like here's the thing i don't

have a problem with people having a good

time in their own way but the way chapel

like

just

see here's the thing this is what you

got to think about when you're working

class smokes weed and drinks beer yeah

when you're when you're in a working cl

when you're in a uh sorry when you're in

a political

or theoretical state of mind

you're you're in a reflexive state

you're not

you're not like expressing yourself

spontaneously you're doing it in a

reflexive way right

and then the when you're enjoying

yourself it's not really reflexive it's

more spontaneous authentic and whatever

what what i find so cringe about chapel

is the way they conflate these two

things that when they're tweeting about

like oh yeah i'm doing coke and going

clubbing and [ __ ] they're making a

[ __ ] political and ideological

statement intentionally like a very

reflexive calculated

statement to try and like

pretend to be a certain style

and

to me it's that that's why when i first

heard about chapel

like when i first heard about them i was

like okay i'll give them a listen on

youtube like what do these people sound

like this i heard i heard about the dirt

bag left in chapel so i was assuming

that these people sound like working

class like

super down to earth like and i listen to

them and they [ __ ] sound like nerds

they sound like very stiff

uh nerds who are not

sponsored it's mixed very smug ironic

and just like it's like how the [ __ ] is

this

what kind of [ __ ] like uh fake

appearance are these people putting on i

see right past this [ __ ] well the thing

is is that they launder like the there

are like the working class element of

the show was like amber and matt

christman those are two people they both

came from like working class backgrounds

but part of like what the show is is

like laundering like and they're also

the only people with anything of

substance to say that isn't just like

riffing on like stereotypes or whatever

um which is like what felix does and

felix is very funny at doing that but

felix comes from perhaps the wealthiest

lineage out of all of them he's from

[ __ ] like hyde park royalty in

[ __ ] chicago so um

and like like men occur is like from

like you know

publishing aristocracy essentially and

um

so like they're not actually like those

two particularly aren't and uh like

virgil wasn't is not like a working

class type of kid either so there you

could even see like these sorts of

splits within the show like you could do

a sort of mini class analysis there i

guess yeah i guess i thought i was gonna

like i was gonna be listening to like

authentic jimmy door type people who

just

talk how they but no they're i i when i

listen to them i i [ __ ]

i was hearing very um

very reflexive kind of like

just

just like if if you showed me this was a

podcast of like

graduate student nerds

i would not be able to tell the

difference you know

yeah i mean it's the same class i mean

like like like that's it's all the same

um these people like their world is like

very a very small uh set of cities uh

like you know like you just look at like

where they go and like what what they

conceive of as like the country they're

not

in like they've no interest in the vast

majority of of america you know and uh

they're actually more interested in some

ways in like british politics than they

are in under

yeah then in understanding like where

like the real history of like you know

like they'll write off someone like ron

paul as being like they'll just be like

he's a neo-nazi or something you know

what i mean like and it's like it's more

opposite

yeah i mean that's the american left is

very like anglophile it's very much like

fascinated with like british aesthetics

and oscar wilde and

uh it's just yeah

yeah it's just like that's why that's

why people in america

like associate like communism

with

this sort of like uh aristocrat like

this sort of like that's like kind of

like british really and it's because it

is like in america like that's uh yeah

they're all like

progressive here's some stuff some

paradoxes that i want to talk about

i watched the speech by ron paul the

other day of him in congress

he's just like talking about

he's going against the neocons it was

like in the 90s and i was like god damn

this [ __ ] was really like this

is really a subversive dangerous yeah

you know uh and i get everything you

were saying but i was trying to think

about

a certain historical irony which is

how the [ __ ] did it come to this because

the school of thought he represents like

he's an austrian or whatever right

kind of

that doesn't that come from a very kind

of like elitist aristocratic yeah

european lineage of like the

austrian you know

aristocrats who were

a reaction against

you know what i mean

yeah there are like these weird ironies

as to how that became a sort of populist

um

uh

like uh it it's it has a lot to do with

like bi-medalism in like the 19th

century and like um the gold standard

was considered like it was like

advertised in some ways is like a

populist thing um it's a pretty

complicated question like how that

arises in uh american history like

american history is like super unique

too

the first populace were against the gold

standard

but yeah it seems like the populists

like ron paul they wanted they wanted

their they made their whole career off

of

jack

well the question is like about like the

bank right and like ron paul's against

the fed and the fed is like definitely

like bad like a guy like and like so so

in some sense there's like a way in

which i've been thinking that like

communism in america will be implemented

through like strict constitutionalism

um so like imagine like you know like

like if we actually wanted to like have

communism and we were like okay step one

we're gonna eliminate like all

departments of the state that like don't

exist in the constitution so what are

you doing there like you're getting rid

of most like 99.9 of like the military

industrial complex like overnight if you

were to do that right so like and like i

think you actually do have to do that

before you could start implementing like

policies that would be for the public

good in such a way that the public would

feel as if they are owning it and it's

not being imposed upon them

yeah

because it right now is being imposed

upon them right like

you know what i mean i i no no i mean

like here's the thing what i know from

dialectics is that yes um this kind of

return to the roots and the origins and

this kind of like leveling of the

american state this is what a lot of

people don't understand is that

a lot of marxists don't get this is that

when he

like

this is how lenin distinguished himself

right

so

this is why one-sided thinking is such a

problem so let's say you were in russia

right in the early 1900s

and you're thinking okay

the basic marxism 101 is that the

bourgeoisie has to

win power and then this will

open the space for the proletariat right

and then the logical conclusion is okay

let's just trail behind the liberal big

bourgeoisie in the cities and then

then it'll be our turn right we just

wait our turn

yeah but then lenin comes and he says no

the real

fundamental class distinctions are

happening in the countryside

between the bourgeoisie and the

proletariat

and that in the countryside

even

this is

it's not yet elaborated in the form of

mao's primary and secondary

contradictions but it's super

interesting so

lenin says

the

this peasant mass almost as a whole

irregardless of its internal class

antagonisms represents a popular

democratic petite bourgeois element

which the urban proletariat must enter

into alliance into an alliance with

in other words

the the seed of the bourgeoisie the

essence of the bourgeoisie is also in

the countryside too

but

so you'd think oh so why not just

support um

the city bouzouzzi if if the essence of

the bourgeoisie is in the countryside

then what's the difference because it's

precisely because there's a difference

between the essence and the appearance

or the content in the form

like

the very real material essence of the

bourgeoisie is being reproduced in the

countryside

and this will be our opportunity as this

will only be the proletariat's

opportunity to seize hegemony which is

going to be in this um

this class differentiation that's going

on among the peasants

um

so

it's it's like there's a dual revolution

going on there's on on the one hand

there's the internal class struggle

between the proletariat and the

bourgeoisie

then on the other hand there's this

wider

struggle going on between the

establishment in the cities

and

uh and the people in the countryside and

that mao finally

goes even further than lenin and he says

even the urban proletariat are not

necessarily revolutionary it's just the

peasantry

the site of the real class struggle is

going to happen among the peasantry and

meanwhile

the peasantry is the revolutionary force

in regards to the establishment

so by returning to the essence

you clear the way and i think that's

that's how i interpret the ron paul

thing by returning to the essence of

constitutionalism or whatever

you are returning to the very seed out

of which this like horrific

big government was able to emerge but

that is not the same

as supporting the current established

big government itself yeah no like the

thing that like the thing is is that ron

paul's like it's a it's a it's a fresh

start it's like a new opportunity like

like yes

it is the very same constitution that

made that gave rise to the current uh

big government but by returning to the

constitutionalist origins

you are repeating i guess jesus writes

uh

in his repeating lenin he's talking

about de loses repetition when you

repeat something you're not actually

just

um reproducing the same thing

repetition is the site of novelty

so i was i was thinking like

like ron paul's relation to the state

also is sort of like in the kind of like

dialectical sense that like the

bolsheviks were whatever where he's like

yeah like i'm participating in this but

what he does is he mostly vetoes or like

votes against everything you know what i

mean like he's just like he's like there

but like he's like on strike kind of in

a way like he i don't know what i don't

know what the last thing he voted for

was but um i think that that like like

say so you say like we had the whole

party a whole party like taking up more

and more space um devoted to that ron

paul line of voting against every single

thing until like everything that was

like all of these unconstitutional

things or whatever were dissolved so

it's just like you just keep like that

is one way in which

this could actually manifest itself is

uh just like by like not having like an

activist participation but creating like

a party that's essentially like a party

on strike to like

i do think there's a lot of limits to to

ron and again it's almost like it all

comes back to a lack of dialectics

you know like i think ron we we should

also really assess why ron paul failed

you know we should have a face oh yeah

no i'm not saying to like to like

emulate everything he says but what i

mean is um i think that like the people

that uh were motivated by that um are

like these are the like uh or like you

know people who listen to alex jones or

things like this like these are these

people are like written off by the like

urban elite or whatever uh the the like

uh bourgeois socialists who uh they're

written off entirely i'll tell you what

our situation is in general just to give

a broader scope

so

during

the time of marx and lenin

we were dealing with a situation of

constitutional nation-states

right

bourgeois democracy as we know it

um

and then after world war ii something

peculiar happened and this was actually

stalin's last speech

stalin's last speech was in the past

the we had the era of the bourgeois

democrat with it this constitutionalism

guarantee of rights and all that kind of

stuff and stalin said now

all of this is being trampled over this

kind of new deep state

or imperialism is taking over and

casting all of that aside just like in

fascism and stalin says something

interesting he says the task of

communists the world over is to

um

carry on this the banner of the former

bourgeois democracy

and defend in almost in a conservative

way that kind of sounds like ron paul

defend

his old

rights and so on and so on so

we have to really understand that

the reason ron paul is so

subversive and potentially revolutionary

is because

what warrant did the american state have

to grow

into what it became

like what right did it have to do that

it has no [ __ ] legitimacy

it has zero [ __ ] warrant it has zero

sanction it has zero right it has zero

legitimacy it's this monstrous deep

state that did not consult the

foundation of the state the social

contract it transgressed the bounds of

the constitution and it's basically kind

of like an illegitimate state

yeah right so absolutely regardless of

the question of whether

um

so now another question is is there a

material being to this kind of like

supplement to bourgeois democracy

yes obviously there is but we can only

actually arrive at it

um we can only arrive at it as something

like for itself by returning to the

origins returning to the roots

and

establishing um a state

uh

establishing a real people state

um in a determinate way in other words

like it's almost like

how the american revolution happened

it's almost like communism would be the

self-consciousness of the current

american empire that makes sense

yeah i mean i'm saying like as you were

like laying out i'm saying this is uh

how the american revolution actually

happened right is that the americans

they said like we're being denied our

like ancient liberties like we're being

denied our liberties

as english of englishmen that's why we

have to become americans

yeah yeah and that i'm saying this is

like like we're being denied like the

america like our the american republic

our liberties our traditions have been

denied that is why we must become

communists a lot of people don't know

this a lot of people think that the

american revolution was just a few old

guys coming together and deciding that

the institution of monarchy was

unjustifiable and then they just decided

to leave that's not what happened they

they were very conservative saying the

parliament the british parliament had no

sanction it had no

justifiable right according to

english tradition it had no right and

that the only way we could preserve the

old real english tradition is by

becoming americans by no longer becoming

englishmen and that's actually the real

dialectic of revolution

revolutions do not happen

when you ex nihilo say the world is

illegitimate and i'm going to conquer

the world based on what i think is right

actually that's a pathology that mirrors

fascism when you think about it yeah and

in italy in germany

fascists did not draw from any prior

legitimacy they just said you know what

we're you know might is right we're just

gonna take power and do what we want and

when i see a lot of leftists in america

assume the same mentality like it's the

same thing this is just a displaced form

of psychological fascism in reality

communist in america will have to be

very similar to people ron paul and and

have to actually

trace the determinate origins of

the internal contradictions of the

american state and the first

most obvious form of that contradiction

is with regard to the betrayal of

america's own institution uh the

betrayal by america's institutions with

its own um

founding document the constitution the

u.s government is infringing upon the

civil liberties that it had promised and

guaranteed

yeah to its citizens in the form of the

constitution and um

communists just act like that it's not

like oh who cares it's just bourgeois

democracy but who's why democracy does

not beco you don't overcome bourgeois

democracy by independently arriving at a

better system

who's why democracy is overcome because

of its determinate internal

contradictions

and this internal contradiction is

very evident in the contradiction

between the imperialist

uh american empire and deep state with

uh the constitution

yeah i mean this is like my thing like i

have no problems these days because like

i mean i kind of come out of a similar

like devotion to a lot of like what ron

paul stood for in like 2008 when i was

like much much younger and um because uh

like i my whole thing is uh like owning

my own stuff like i just want i want to

have my own i want to have a house i

want to be able like to own my own means

of production right like i want like i

want to have like a little workshop and

like i want to be able to build things

you know or like i would like to

be involved in a community where like

say i could like rent out access to like

industrial machinery so i can like build

furniture or things like that like these

are the sorts of things that i i'm like

kind of like intellect tinkering and

like you know building stuff um and i

always got along with people like that

like you know engineer tinkerer like diy

kind of like open source type people or

people and uh like right to repair

people like the the people who are just

like really interested in like they're

like i own this thing like i own this

car i want to be able to like know how

it works and i want to be able to like

fix it myself and i want to be able to

like fabricate the pieces i would need

to fix this myself and this is all stuff

libertarians want like this is what they

actually want if you talk to them they

want these sorts of liberties around

like their own means of production and

over like some aspects of their

consumption which they're denied now

and uh like you know it's like

libertarians they're totally right to

consider the fact that like if you grow

like if you like make a loaf of bread or

something and you want to go just like

into the town of park and you're like

putting up the little stand and you're

selling your bread like the that a cop

could come over and be like do you have

a business license like that is like a

like why is that you know what i mean

like i think in communism why would

there be any problem with that so my

whole point is like communism

like the way that we should be talking

about it is like it is what would and it

would mean about owning more things it

would mean that you would have more

property it means that you would have

like it's not about losing anything it's

there's only things to gain

like you don't have to give something up

like aesthetically in this sort

inexorably bound up

with state institution

um

marx does not actually talk about the

objective essence of private property

in the sense of like

private property being something beyond

something

uh that's given recognition in the form

of state the state so when marx for so

somebody would be like oh that's just

the petite bourgeoisie fantasy but no

the petite bourgeoisie for marx and

marxist historically

wasn't simply what you're talking about

is like the bait a basic humanity of

like the peasants and just humanity in

general whereas the the boop the petite

bourgeoisie

may have feigned some kind of

independence and the the biggest

examples of the petite bourgeoisie that

were used at the time was the urban

bourgeoisie like the small shop owners

and craftsmen but they fundamentally

relied upon the centralizing um order of

the states that they lived in

at the time like

it wasn't just like that these were

people like doing their own thing they

fundamentally

were

given

recognition and so they were their

premise their existence by some kind of

recognition you know

so

this thing you're talking about i think

a lot of um

marxists don't understand uh

that was given for more

what i'm trying to say like yeah

marx is actually much more like the

normal guy yeah than people like the

ability for a human being to

independently fulfill their existence

and live independently truly freely i

mean

i mean think about the examples marx

gives for communism does marx say that

communism is no marx and engels mocked

this idea of communism and they're

critic of barracks communism with their

critiquing during and during this notion

of barracks communism you look at what

marx described about comics he was like

you fish in the morning you eat in the

afternoon and you hunt in the you know

marx was very

that was given for marx that this kind

of tinkerer type of thing of

the individual

fully realizing their abilities their

yeah the expression of their humanity

that was always given for mark and and

even if you go to lenin right if you

read lenin lenin state in revolution

lenin's very libertarian lenin says

that

after um the withering away of the state

the way in which social life will be

regulated will be based on

uh the moors the customs the traditions

of people

common sense it's almost like

some kind of like english conservative

you know

yeah one thing um i was thinking about

um i was reading uh i was reading i read

the other day all of marx's letters to

his wife because i'm always interested

in that and um mark's actually had like

a very good marriage like and like he's

like a big like romantic like big on

monogamy and like you know like he was

like you know what i mean

people don't understand marx people

would call marx of fascists today let me

tell you

yeah exactly

if you if you read

the way marx talked about the pairs marx

was all about these fundamental ironies

when marx talked about the paris commune

he talked about the hero heroism of um

the women in the paris commune and he he

described them

he said they were heroic like they

possessed the womanly virtue like the

women of antiquity like the women you

read in ancient greek tragedies like he

had he had this very powerful almost

like today would be considered very

reactionary

description which is like evoking this

deep

kind of primordial sense of honor and

virtue which for marx is re-emerging in

the modern context in the form of the

proletariat like this idea that marx was

like a vows who was just like oh you

know like a jellyfish who didn't you

know care about any of these things

i don't i don't know if anyone has that

idea but it's just not [ __ ] true marx

would be considered profoundly

conservative i was thinking i was

thinking um how part of like on the like

irony like lump in bourgeois socialist

types like they have a thing that they

call like wife guys and i've often been

called the wife guy also you know where

you're like at where you're like

actually like you're like in you're like

proud of your marriage and things like

this but this is mark stewart marx is

totally a wife guy like he was very

devoted to

like well

he was a he was like a real person you

know like a kind of like a complete

human being he wasn't like

like living like you know what i mean

like

i remember a journalist who went to

interview marks he was describing when

he said mark strikes me as a very plain

like middle-class guy he doesn't seem

like he's like

it's like he doesn't seem like a bakunin

type of like degenerate you know yeah

exactly like yeah

yeah bakunin is like vaush and and like

he's like you know like [ __ ] these

like hideous troll looking women and

like you know like

just like has bad taste and just like

smells bad and just like shows up to

like say edgy [ __ ] that like doesn't

make any sense

you know like that's that's bakunen

yeah i mean um

yeah i mean uh i don't know i think

it's it's you know i is what i try to

say is that

for all the people who

have this americans have this warped

idea of communism and marxism i want to

ask them this question i mean the fact

that there's communist states that

endured wars and that kind of stuff

you realize those people went through

all of the [ __ ]

they exhausted the whole breadth of like

human

reality whether it's war tragedy loss

um fam strife in the family over then

the need for honor bravery all of those

like ancient greek whatever virtues all

of those classical conservative values

they had to

you know there's a i don't know like for

example just think of like

i don't know like um

the chinese uh

the long march or the war against japan

like do you think these people were just

like um

liberals or like woke liberals who were

like politically correct no these people

were [ __ ]

in life and death situations

and they had to deal with actual reality

he had to deal with the actual reality

of humanity like in all its brutality

and all of its [ __ ]

horror and it's all of its yeah and

depth and all of its like ambiguity like

they yeah they're not

anti-authoritarians either like there's

no like that's another thing marx also

talks about marx and engels i don't know

if there's angle maybe it's the angles

but i don't really care um we're saying

that like anti-authoritarianism is just

like is a sabotage because like the

whole point is for the working class to

be have authority like like you know

it's like it's like and it's sort of

also the similar to like the the the uh

the liberal opposition to like gun

ownership and things like that in

america like the second amendment is

deeply you can build communism off of

the second amendment and this is sort of

why um i like closely associated in some

ways or at least i looked up to when i

was younger especially uh someone like

cody wilson because i always saw that at

that implicit in like the notion of um

and like you know that's more

complicated and who knows like what the

whole purpose of the ghost gunner was or

if it's being used for um you know like

[ __ ] weird cia [ __ ] or whatever yeah

but yeah i i don't really know who um

that is or whatever but

but his whole idea was like you know

what

uh

can you check your twitter right now

yeah

okay

yeah i know i get it yeah i get it i

know it's [ __ ] suss and [ __ ] but what

i just mean like that sort of maker like

tinker like the people attracted to that

are the people who should be attracted

to communism

don't worry dude

yeah it's all like i i'm like i'm like

sometimes mystified by like because like

i know like there's like weird [ __ ]

around people that like i talk to and

i'm often like associate with people who

end up getting tied into other weird

[ __ ] but i think that's like i'm just

like open to that sort of stuff i guess

like we're like looking for the good in

that stuff like i'm always trying to

look for like what the good is in

something even if i'm like very critical

of it so i think that that sort of

project of like like 3d printing you

know 3d printing is something communists

should be talking about like you know

what i mean like this is yeah yeah i

agree i agree yeah but

instead they want to talk about [ __ ]

you know like falc or fully automated

luxury and it's

it's it's the most [ __ ] like

shameless thing i can think of it's like

oh yeah conveniently like your specific

fantasy like the thing that would

support your lifestyle the most is like

universal project

of the american people get the [ __ ] out

of here

yeah these people they like they're not

interested in like what normal people

are interested in like

like they don't like uh like what a lot

of people take pride in

in america

i mean um

i i don't know it's it like i said

it's really easy when i put things this

way it's really easy for me to

show conservatives

this like view of communism and [ __ ]

but american leftists make it so [ __ ]

hard they make it yeah no they're

actually saboteurs

[ __ ] and then

all and then but look at the reality of

the majority of people in america

calling themselves like communists and

leftists and [ __ ] it's like they're

[ __ ] ruining it you know

yeah i mean there's a there's an extent

though where like everything begins with

like the rectification of names so i

don't know if it's necessarily correct

to like give up that framing and to like

like that's why like i think a lot of

like these like third positionist type

people or whatever they're like oh we

have to call it like

like labor

capitalism or and it's like no i'm like

we are the authentic then like we should

like this is what i liked about what

you've been doing we're like i'm a

capital c communist like you like put it

with the capital like spell it with the

[ __ ] capital blame it and just like

it's going to be ruthless but we're

going to have to like destroy the left

yeah i you know i'm going to be debating

a guy on tuesday his name is like keith

woods

and i think that yes the debate's going

to be about

whether china is fascist and he's

arguing it's fascist because um yeah

okay so i've already been arguing with

him right so he's citing a james gregor

and you just need to look into this

guy's biography because he just set up

like he's like he's set up like an

eugenics institute like his actual

project is rehabilitating the term

fascism

because they're all [ __ ] the actual

fascists it's like how how has how can

there be fascism without

um

using the state as an arm to re reboot

the military-industrial complex and

like how was their fascism without that

has there ever been an example of

fascism that wasn't

a military

you know chauvinistic military um

project

well like basically what they'll look at

is they'll say like their whole thing is

defending hitler like i'm not kidding

like this is all they care about if you

start arguing with them it's going to

come down to like world war ii

historiography and who the quote-unquote

capitalists were supporting so their

whole thing right is like oh the

capitalists are supporting the

communists because fascism was actually

the real communism which it doesn't make

any sense because it's like

i mean like it seems to the extent of my

knowledge is factually wrong but also

and why would it be in the interest of

the communists to like aid i mean sorry

why would it be in the interests of um

why why else

would there be a [ __ ] move to

initiate the german expansionism and

this enslavement of europe the conquest

of europe

like what point would that be if not to

serve the aims of the german capitalists

well they're going to make a distinction

between um when the capitalists like

people like shacked or whatever were

supporting hitler like in the 30s and

then when like you know things change in

like world war two and like when they we

start going to war like the anglo-sphere

going to war with them because they're

gonna they're gonna point you like

basically hitler uh printing their own

currency so like that is you know that

uh that was a threat to like uh

international financial control over

germany so there is a degree in to which

um that that dialectic is like correct

and like so that um there was a degree

there was a point where it was like you

know they would support stalin like that

like temper like temporarily

i get that world war ii was definitely a

war between rivaling

imperialist and capitalist um

forces but

i i don't see like um

i like you have to think about what le

what got what led it to that point you

know and i don't see how

taking

the way in which english um capitalists

supported the nazis

can be taken out of that you know

yeah i know exactly like the thing is is

like they're like but there's also this

idea they think like that hitler at some

point had saw like actually had

sovereignty or like had the possibility

of winning or in any respect but i don't

believe that that was ever really

remotely possible the independent

currency is like it's it's very similar

to the eu you know

yeah uh yeah kind of um it's like it's

pretty complicated i mean that's the

thing is like this sort of debate gets

down into like hyper specifics and

they're gonna be annoying and like

trying to they're gonna like say like

that uh the the

like for instance i just kept saying

like i'm gonna using the common turns

definition of fascism where it's just

like the rule of finance capital like it

just finance capital that's what fascism

is like that's why you can point at like

goldman sachs right now and be like

that's fascism well he answered the

question i'd have for them is like how

do you explain the businessman's plot

yeah

you know like exactly

uh

prescott bush and all of these

like super establishment

deep state kind of people

literally wanted to model america's

government off of

fascism um yeah ironically this is also

like the kind of more anglophile wing

too because there are all these like

internal descents between like uh

between fdr stalin and churchill for

instance yeah um where like there's in

some ways where fdr was like much closer

to stalin than to churchill oh yeah but

and like there was a degree to which

like america was like kind of owning the

british empire at that point in world

war ii like and afterwards like during

the sweats canal crisis and things like

that we were sort of like uh trying to

like have one over on the british empire

but i my contention ultimately is that

like the british empire like

ultimately like won you know what i mean

like that and like reclaimed america and

like we even described described this

time period and i think it was through

like this sort of 60s hippie sort of

[ __ ] like we call it the british

invasion yeah but i think that's like

not a joke you know like that is and

this is sort of what kubrick

was showing in his films and it's also

something that thomas pension writes

about right like it's something that

like i don't think it's absurd this is

like a degree to which larouche was

actually right about a lot of this stuff

yeah his he was like obsessed with the

british and the good reason i guess

well but i think that that's also if

we're saying we're going back to the

root like there isn't like we like

that's part of like motivating these

people it's like we don't want like

seven like you know alex jones saying

1776 will commence again like i yes 100

percent

[ __ ] the british get the tories out of

here like [ __ ] the anglo financial

system that is like this empire which is

like always been the enemy of the

american republic like i think this is a

very powerful and i think it's true

yeah i mean um

i think dwelling in this kind of

contradict apparent contradiction like

between

libertarianism and

communism will produce the correct

result

this is what like deng xiaoping is

perfect the perfect like point to

do this on

yeah

i mean it's like it's very clear it's

not a question of idiot

trump could tell people

any policy and they would agree with

they don't yeah exactly

any like eternal principle

but yeah yeah yeah no like like trump if

the thing is if trump was a communist

and he was saying all of the like and he

was like came out and he was like you

know what guys like i've become a

communist like that would just mean that

all the trump fans would become

communist that's all that it would mean

exactly you know um

this is kind of really off topic but

speaking of larue she always talks about

the so-called venetian banks like venice

or whatever

yeah that is a there's a lot of real

history to that though really

yeah

like it always fascinated me because we

talk about like the renaissance

um

got um

you've got a

sorry i got a message we got a uh a lot

of

we already talked about like the

difference between the machiavellian

type of thing

i wonder to what extent

that's where it all began you know

basically well you know it begins at the

very beginning you know everything's

always everything and you know so it's

like when did anything begin man it

began with the [ __ ] foundation the

cosmos you know yeah but like you can

trace all of this stuff back like as far

as you want i would say you know it

begins with [ __ ] uh tammy mabel man

you know

yeah i agree

very true

um

uh thank you d salon appreciate it

uh

yeah i don't know um did you hear that

biden is starting to like ramp up in

somalia now

oh i'm sure man i mean there's it's all

[ __ ] now man it's carte blanche for

[ __ ]

[Music]

no one's paying attention anymore that's

a thing you know it's like it's a like

uh and it's uh there's i don't know man

like i i don't trust a lot of this [ __ ]

like the the

it's also [ __ ] sauce man like

everyone gets wants to like uh

to like have an easy path to power

basically right so like they're gonna

like try to reach out to entrench powers

already but that's not like a way

forward that's that's never going to

work and all that's going to do is

meaning that like you're going to become

instrumentalized by this thing that

already exists so

you know you have to actually build

an independent like movement

like something that is not connected

like something that is like actually

rejecting the legitimacy of this power

structure that's and like

like not that's the only way forward um

i see all these people and they end up

trying to like plug themselves into some

pre-existing structure but that's

all of them don't work like something

radically new has to happen

yeah

i agree yeah i mean

i don't know it's it's definitely a

complicated you know like for example

i'll tell you something a lot of the

people that watch me and listen to me

they come from california of all places

you know

um and it seems like believe it or not

calif it seems like something is going

on in california like there's a lot yeah

i feel it man i'm there

you live there

yeah i moved to sf dude i'm in the i'm

in the belly of the beast now oh [ __ ]

you live in oh

yeah no dude it's actually been really

uh enlightening to be here because i

have um like i like was just at a party

yesterday talking to like like people

who like work for facebook and things

like that right so like i'm talking to

like the like the technocrats like the

two like the sort of um

like they're like the central planners

of the american economy you know these

uh like the consultants for these sort

of like investment banks and things like

this and um these people are uh these

people are also i don't think um outside

of the reach of like what you could call

radicalization or whatever because they

are uh they

these people in any sort of like they're

not bad people they are very talented

people and they're they're just directed

towards like um

the the ends that they're you know being

directed towards but they have a lot of

talent and these sorts these are the

sorts of people that you would actually

want to like be working in the public

good because they have a lot of talent

the problem is is that like they're like

possibly the most like naive or

manipulated class in other respects

because

by being like

afforded like pretty cushy conditions

and stuff like that that doesn't

actually afford them like happiness

they're actually usually kind of

miserable or sad or like lonely they're

usually like um you know they do a lot

of like psychedelic drugs and stuff like

that or like they're constantly like

working out or trying to like min max in

some other respect because they don't

they like are alienated too like they

they want

that they see the like ruin of this

country also and they are just as

confused as like anyone else

yeah

um so definitely see what you're

coming from

but like they but they also like

inhabits more purely the ideology than

others because they are um

they uh they are actually like building

it you know like they are actually like

uh

involved in the process of uh building

like this sort of tech economy and

things right and uh they have like they

think out the uh their like liberalism

or whatever more than say like a chapo

dsa type person those people are just

like mystifiers but these people are

like committed to like telling what they

they're very authentic people you know

they're not lying they're not

bullshitters

california is like known for the

opposite

well i mean specifically like coders

like the tech

people like they're they're like they

are just talking about like systems you

know what i mean like they're very

authentic like they're not gonna like

you really like if you're talking about

the sales guys or something they'll lie

to you but you're talking about

engineers they're not going to lie to

you

yeah it makes sense you know i don't

this is off topic but lauren southern is

online on twitch do you know who that is

oh dude trust me man i every right wing

person like you might have been more

involved with the left but like i've

been like chilling on the right i guess

for a long time so i know all of these

people wait

to debate her tonight does she she doing

debates tonight

um i i i don't know man she's not very

smart i mean she's mostly just like you

know she's like a she's like a a gun

girl or whatever she can she's like you

know like she's she plays that hasn't

been like she's on the platform i would

expect her to be a platform but

shout themselves out

yeah i don't know man it's funny so why

you guessing

a lot of platform and not it is kind of

arbitrary like in a very uh real sense

yeah

it's positive from yeah democrats i

don't know you could argue with her i

think honestly like you'd probably

have more you could have more productive

um debates with people on the right than

you would with leftists because leftists

are encourageable and they're hopeless

yeah i agree

um

yeah

pretty crazy

like for instance uh did you see vosh

with charlie kirk

yeah that was so [ __ ] stupid kirk

rolled him kirk isn't even that smart

but he's a smarter person i'd rather

have charlie kirk on my team than bosh

really

yeah i think charlie kirk is like i

think that he is a better person

probably in his day-to-day life i think

he's probably like you know if he had

kids you'd probably be a good father you

know what i mean i don't think that's

true bosh

so i would i would coach a soccer team

with [ __ ] charlie kirk i wouldn't

coach a soccer team with vosh i i i can

agree with that definitely

guys how do i call in how do i do it

just in case i uh

i decide to do that how would i do it

like do you have a number

or is it through her discord i don't

want to go under discord

um

lauren southern

that she wants to like debate lefties

join the yeah yo you know what's [ __ ]

crazy samantha that would be good

content wait that would be good

samantha's modding for her

how the [ __ ] is samantha modding for her

oh it's the official twitch politics

discord oh you know what

i'm tempted i'm kind of

thinking i mean if you're gonna get on

that i will definitely dip out because i

just want to watch you do that frankly

but uh but i just wanted to like just

like you know people in the chat are

saying like i hate that i like charlie

kirk more than vox no you shouldn't hate

that that's a correct opinion like

that's like you should like destiny more

than bosh because destiny is a more

authentic and like a better person

frankly than these sorts of leftists

like like

it's so [ __ ] to like divide things

by this sort of ideology um like this is

something i like about mao like his

whole thing is about like everyone

fundamentally is like redeemable like

you can reach everyone like i i think

you have to have that faith and you have

to have like that good um you have to be

like a charitable person

with uh people who are being authentic

but people who aren't being authentic

like these sorts of like posers like you

do not deserve they don't deserve

authenticity either because they will

never give it to you

yeah you know that's so [ __ ] crazy

all of like the streamers who are like

samantha's there um sanso and they're

platforming lauren they were [ __ ]

getting mad at me

no [ __ ]

it's what the [ __ ] it's so weird

that is so weird honestly

yeah

communism is the cool kid club no [ __ ]

that [ __ ] [ __ ] that [ __ ] no no these are

like

these are people who are getting

involved in like drama because it's like

oh you're talking to right wingers or

whatever but like they're like literally

hosting lauren southern like what the

[ __ ] is going on

yeah exactly exactly that's like there's

so many fun ironys of that um yeah like

there's like frankly frankly those type

of like a narco leftist or whatever are

like the absolute worst uh people in the

country like they're probably they

actually have like they're like less

redeemable in some ways even than like

the oligarch because

like

they act as if they are like oligarchs

like they want to be like they they

treat the world in the same way it's

because of my crisscross theory of

politics is correct it's like yeah dude

we have the same theory on that actually

plus the authoritarian right that's why

they're like friends with lauren

southern

yeah it's the same [ __ ] man like that's

like you go you go far enough into like

the whole earth catalog like anarchist

thing and then you like look and you're

like oh wait a minute like i'm doing

human sacrifice rituals for

for for the [ __ ] uh for nature for uh

the god of nature

um

let me type

i think you want you want right

libertarians and left authoritarians are

like the same thing it's the same thing

yeah it's the crisscross

and also another another thing is also

like the the mysticism thing right

because like

lib left is like associated with like

like new age [ __ ] and stuff and then

yeah yeah that's connected to [ __ ]

like nazi occultism and [ __ ] yeah you

have like also like the types of

christianity you could see manifested in

those ways right in those like four

corners yeah yeah

like it applies to yeah the

authoritarian left and the libertarian

right are way more like uh

traditionalists kind of instead of the

new age stuff they're more into like the

you know just like conservative or

christian whatever

like full culture also yeah

yeah because like that's like one thing

that you have to actually press like the

authoritarian rightists on or whatever

on their appreciation of like cult folk

culture they hate folk culture they're

like they're constantly pissed off at

folk culture what they like is like this

like bourgeois like um like bourgeois

medievalism

or or or they they're obsessed with this

this is what i they never understands

like their neoclassicism which is what

it is is [ __ ] it's the aesthetics of

modernity it's literally the

quintessential yes

aesthetics of modernity it's like that

is modern art neoclassicism

like so much so that the the the [ __ ]

modern art that they decry which is like

what the like bauhaus and the [ __ ]

yeah it was a revolution against that

[ __ ] that yeah that came from

neoclassicism that that was like a you

know direct lineage

so

yeah um

that's the thing that's the thing i

don't get with like these [ __ ]

so-called trad people and they're like

oh we have to defend the west but like

what is the substantive content of this

west you're talking about because it's

literally just

negation abstraction and criticism

you know well i think that there is like

stuff to defend right like for instance

like you know i was saying like death to

america along with america like that's

how i feel with like the west in general

the thing is is like yeah i i mean that

but when these people are like oh yeah

like we have to protect the west or

whatever it's like oh yeah you mean like

like proofst than like herman melville

and like emerson and bro

they no they don't mean that's what i

mean like what they mean by the west is

they mean

like modern they mean modernity

basically like they they don't care

about the actual like substantive

content of like pre-modern

or whatever you know america and europe

like they don't give a [ __ ] about that

they [ __ ] care about

um

this like the cartesian cogito and it's

like

tyranny thereof you know

yeah they're actually there's like

they're ultra libs they're they're uh

they just wanted to they're like they're

like so they're like i tried being a

classical liberal but you actually need

to like suspend uh liberalism in order

to defend liberalism which is why i'm a

fascist now so like i have i want to

like use illiberal means to defend

liberalism that's basically all it is

that's literally exactly what it is it's

like right on the nose that is exactly

what it is

yeah i mean it's like and like i try to

like i don't know like the i hope you do

well with the keith woods debate or

whatever but those guys are really

[ __ ] annoying they kept like uh like

i was arguing with them on twitter and

like all 20 of them in their group chat

or whatever would like like each thing

and be like you're getting take this l

pick this l like they're like psyopping

themselves into thinking that they're

like winning like they have to like

create the illusion of like might makes

right like like look we're ratioing you

because we like posted this like sassy

gif reply and it's like these people

aren't authentic like they they they're

not serious

yeah that's they're just posers too the

thing is is that a lot of them come from

the like ultra leftist background too

yeah that's the thing they're [ __ ]

left comms i i know that [ __ ]

yeah they're like they're like dude

their criticisms of ml is literally left

calm criticisms

that's the thing it's like oh yeah we

did not abolish commodities and yeah

that's left yeah or they'll go like

they're like yeah you didn't you didn't

abolish commodities which means that

it's actually fascism but that means

it's actually based because i'm a

fascist and it's like well shut the [ __ ]

up like you're actually just mystifying

everything you're just making it harder

for anyone to understand [ __ ] and you're

not serious you're not engaging with

this authentically you're pretending to

but you're only like why are you reading

these books it's because you saw them on

like an infographic of like base right

wing fascist like literature background

stuff and so they just like read these

things and check them off and they'd be

like oh i've now i've read like the

literature and it's like did you read

marx first and they're like uh you i

don't have to because

it's all [ __ ] [ __ ] they're all

posers

yeah

definitely

it pisses me off though because like i'm

serious you know i'm like a serious

person is the thing like i'm not like

people like call me like an irony cell

or whatever but when i use irony i'm

using it for like serious purposes you

know i mean like i'm very serious about

the concept of irony also i think that

it's like a very important thing i'm not

like that flippant about my own use of

irony

yeah i agree

um i have to use any just like hardcore

seriousness is my thing well if you go

to the bathroom i'll just a field

questions from your chat oh yeah yeah

sure sure um yeah dude uh one thing

before i go though just remember like uh

tos you know

yeah yeah i won't do any i'll i promise

i'm sorry yeah i don't know all the tos

should i'm sorry yeah yeah and if you

don't know just like you know it's like

it's super yeah i'll err on the side of

like real of a caution i'll be uh on my

dinner table conversation [ __ ]

okay man appreciate it okay i'm gonna be

right back okay so for instance i'm not

gonna answer the the thing about the

taliban

[Laughter]

i support everything i like the office

and i am basically chimp i love

liberalism guys

all right

nods are asleep now uh no i don't play

among us

no i don't i played it once with my

friends when we were drinking it was uh

it was okay

thanks for reading my poetry book what's

my favorite color i probably i always

like purple i was always like i always

like like you probably know that if you

see like what i make like images or

whatever i i like like black white and

like purple like silver and gold i don't

know

um

workers co-ops i have nothing wrong

there's i have no problem with workers

co-ops i just don't think that you can

make literally everything into a workers

co-op you know what i mean like there's

these people who are like

everything has to be a worker's co-op

um

let me see it's kind of scrolling fast

now moon landing um

i don't know man i go back and forth on

that frankly i don't know depends on how

i schizo i'm feeling

uh interesting things about william

blake many people wouldn't know i mean

feel like most people don't know

anything about william blake but uh um

[ __ ] i mean his whole life's interesting

one of my favorite things is like he got

like he got like arrested for like you

know yelling at like uh the the cops

basically

uh main currents of marxism it's a good

book yeah read it it's good i don't know

i don't have strong thoughts on it i

guess do i play chess yes

i'm not super great but i like playing

blitz chess devil's chessboard yes

devil's chessboard is a good book if you

read that

what do i think about the jfk death i

mean obviously he got [ __ ] taken out

by the cia i mean let's be real here

uh my podcast is uh if you go into my

twitter account it's uh my in my

profile the patreon for it it's on the

pseudodoxological podcast network with

like me papa and edberg but mine's

called read books

we're going to be reading edmund spencer

right now um

do i know soviet chess history not like

super deeply i know a lot about uh like

like the history of like chess puzzles

and stuff like that because i studied

nabokov a lot

why don't i block those sassy jif

midwits on twitter because sometimes uh

you like quote tweeting or whatever

you're sort of trying to like sublate

like it is kind of like a hegelian

process like the quote tweet so

sometimes you want to have around these

like people who embody like the

something that's like the absolute

opposition to you because then like your

arguments with them can sort of

represent that dialectical overcoming of

their argument at least i hope that's

like the only reason why i don't block

everyone i do block a lot of people but

i only block people if they seem like

fundamentally unserious

if they're like serious then like i give

them a chance i'll give them like three

chances usually

cool

all right what a good question puerto

rico us relations it's super [ __ ] holy

[ __ ] puerto rico is like so abused by us

man like it's so bad i have a lot of we

have a lot of puerto rican followers

they're uh they're really getting uh

like i mean they have to deal with so

much of like that rockefeller like

liberal imperial [ __ ] like that was like

their country was just a [ __ ] like

petri dish for like eugenics programs

and all this sort of [ __ ] no one [ __ ]

knows anything about it man

it's [ __ ]

let's see what lauren southern saying

around hating white people that's not

productive that's not helping my

okay my politics are based around hating

canadians ugly pirate we are over time

uh to everyone

everybody's listening uh lev is has like

the first time ever talked to lev like

and it popped up he had a poster of karl

popper over his shoulder so i knew

exactly lev is like a great example of

that i like going on there if only

because lev is uh lev is himself a

liberal imperialist and you can see that

and how he governs his own show like he

is a liberal but he's in he's so

imperial and like he wants absolute

totalitarian control over his own show

so he kind of represents perfectly his

own ideology

like the unironic like lib thing is like

so common on twitch it's like the the

main thing on twitch it dominates

yeah i mean the thing is is because like

like well i mean destiny is like the

best the best example of that but that

seems like a fundamentally serious

person right he just takes like the like

he's like he's very self-conscious of

what it means to be a liberal he's like

i'm a consequentialist i'm a utilitarian

you know what i mean like

he checks all the boxes and he like owns

it the thing is with the as you said

about him right like he just hasn't had

like he hasn't had like the moment to

like see what liberalism actually is you

know like he believes in the ideology

but like he he he really has studied it

and he does really believe in it

yeah i mean um

i wanted to set up something between him

and conspot but

destiny was not like operating but maybe

you know maybe he will

yeah i mean the thing is is like uh

i don't what does he have to gain really

or like he he also like the problem with

like liberals is like the the they they

only accept conversations on their own

terms and their terms imply their their

conclusions so basically arguing with a

liberal they're just basically like

putting a gun to your head and saying

like agree with me agree with me accept

my hypothesis except like they always

have to construct a fiction too they

never talk about reality would you ever

uh

would you ever like debate one of these

like

logic logic debate lords

um i i mean the thing is is like what is

a debate you know what i mean like uh i

think the form of the debate like what

does it mean is like we're gonna have to

like uh so it's gonna be like it starts

off and it's like okay we're going to

argue about definitions and then we're

going to argue about like whether or not

the hypothetical or analogy presented is

actually applicable and we're just going

to do this

struggling to do this for like hours and

it's just going to suck it's always

really boring i mean that's like you

know it took me so long to like actually

create a debate with amy about china in

that whole stream because everyone's so

averse to actually having a substantive

discussion it always turns into these

like games of definition and i debated a

guy named ask yourself and we debated

for two hours uh about me trying to tell

him that

i don't have to clarify what the word

bad means

yeah yeah i think something's bad oh

what do you mean by that i i think i'm

opposed to it i don't i don't think it's

good i don't know it's not it's not even

that it's not even that if he's like

okay why do you think it's bad it's like

okay i could tell you but he's like he

was literally saying what is bad and

it's like do you mean it's against your

preferences

like what i mean it's bad like why would

i i'm using the word bad you know like

what no but don't you know that

bad just means down vote you know like

that's all it means

and like like so like the thing is right

like that's what liberals do like

they'll be like you have to accept a

frame like they won't even be able to

start a discussion unless you like join

they're like they're they're like the

saw game right they're like they're like

welcome to my twisted chamber of my

thought experiment and it's like

like do you pull the lever like who do

you kill

liberals that's how they argue they're

like terrorists man yeah

well i called him a computer i said you

know you're literally a computer dude

you live in the computer

yeah they do because

the thing is is like uh i like william

blake because william blake uh will

actually give you like the symbolic

vocabulary to see the reign of yuri zen

and like the [ __ ] uh masonic liberal

demiurge like literally carved into the

world all around you in america

especially in san francisco man it's

like i was like on me the corner of

mason and turk ave and i was just like

oh man like i felt like the [ __ ]

spooky energy like i'm like a it's a

it's it's it's literally like carved

into the world this sort of like uh uh

liberal deism like most people are still

deist like you talk to destiny who'd be

like well you know the simulation

hypothesis

and it's like this is just deism dude

like you're an 18th century deist

yeah

very true

that's what they all are nothing's

really changed like uh you could say a

lot of like this sort of like discord

server like politics is just like our

form of like a technological freemasonry

where it's like this is like everyone

has their like lodge

and it has like you know you've got

these like you you uh you move up and

you get badges and you have like

different titles and things it's

literally like like micro targeted

freemasonry

that is so true

yeah so it's weird because people are

really alienated from like why did

everyone in america join all these

freemason things and it's like well

[ __ ] why are you on discord servers

dude

like it's the same thing yeah that's oh

my god yeah yeah

[ __ ] club

um

like we're this is like like so that's

why like i've been trying to do it like

self-consciously promoting it with a

sort of ironic detachment where i'm like

i'm we're the raw secretions um because

like that's what everyone's

fundamentally doing they're making their

own little raw secretion college like we

are like

even unconsciously we're replicating

like the the forms of socialization and

you know institutions and things that uh

are our tradition here in america

there's nothing wrong with fraternities

there's nothing wrong with like you know

having societies like that i think

yeah i mean i don't know i just think on

discord it's like

there's so many psychos and weirdos

yeah dude i mean same thing with [ __ ]

mason halls man but there's also a lot

of was like salt of the earth [ __ ]

people

at least with those it's like you have

skin in the game and like it's your

identity like discord is anonymous you

know so it's like there's so many

[ __ ] stupid

that goes on just because of that

yeah

i know man it's a it's a it freaks me

out because um i'm more and more spooked

out by like the early like the early

days of the internet and like it's ties

to the like whole earth catalog type

people and um like using that uh [ __ ]

cults like do you ever look into like

the cult of the dead cow and stuff it

was this like hacking group that mold

bug and beto o'rourke were a part of

like in the 90s what

did you not know this no i just called

the cult

google the cult of the dead cow that

beetle auroric and mold bug

yeah

the [ __ ] is that

yeah

a computer

media organization founded in texas

how big were they yeah they must have

had like thousands of members right

it wasn't that big because this is like

early days of the internet right but

like there were no this is not the only

one of these there were tons of these

like hacker little groups and stuff like

that but the thing is is that they were

instrumentalized by the state department

early on to do things like cyber warfare

against china like in the 90s wait wait

mold blood was in it

yeah he's

listed in the key people thing

yeah he had a different pseudonym what

was it

i forget which one it is

in this [ __ ] oh [ __ ] yeah

yeah man it's like gen x uh culture dude

this is like a you should check out some

of the early using that stuff you can

read all these people who are now like

powerful like venture capitalists and

stuff and they're just like arguing

about like uh battlestar galactica or

whatever the [ __ ] like unusednet like in

the 90s

the which seeks to apply the universal

declaration of human rights

to the internet

the thing is is that i like i like

curtis i've actually met him i don't

know if he would talk to me anymore but

um i think he's like he's like he's a i

think he's a serious person i don't

think that he's like trolling or being

uh mentious mole bug curtis yeah

i think he's an authentic person like i

think he's not i think he's like serious

you know but is he like a government

agent or something or well his family is

that he self-admittedly like that's what

his family is like his family is like

you know state state department type

people

yeah i mean uh that's that's just how it

is man yeah the early internet culture

stuff is what i've been thinking about a

lot and um like sort of like the

encyclopedia dramatica stuff and like

how much people who are behind a la mode

i don't know what that is

all right uh i'm a loot whatever

like another hacker thing

i don't know

i think they were inspired by hakeem

oh dude hakeem bay is a [ __ ] [ __ ]

uh nightmare that sort of [ __ ] too like

burrows and like the whole like tangiers

connection where they're like going over

to like dude [ __ ] opioids i used to

read the things i one of the i got into

this rabbit hole because i used to read

um nick land's old old like blog where

him reza and mark fisher would like

talk with each other

yeah

and that kind of put me on a rabbit hole

where like i found a lot of like weird

just

early internet stuff you know

yeah i mean i like grew up like

idolizing that [ __ ] you know what i mean

like that was like uh what i thought was

like the coolest [ __ ] ever like i was on

on the bitcoin wave in like 2009 or some

[ __ ] like i always knew about this

no

no i was in literally i was literally

like 15 and i had no money like i didn't

have a job or anything and i remember

telling my parents i was like can you

give me like 500 so i can buy this

cryptocurrency and they're like why what

is it for i'm like well you know it has

inelastic demand because it's used on

the dark net drug markets so i think

that it would be a good investment

like like like they were like what like

what the [ __ ] is wrong with you

dude

what the [ __ ] did peter's there's a guy

named mudge

uh let me look at all these people so

this guy he's

in darpa

uh who's this guy

he's in mit

and what the [ __ ] dude this is so weird

and better aurora where did that do you

want to know a funny follow-up story to

that a funny follow-up story to that is

um after bitcoin like took off and i was

like showing my parents and i was and

they're like oh my god like wow we

really should have given you that money

like holy [ __ ] and they're like and my

dad was like if you ever have a sure bet

like that ever again like let me know

and i will do it like no questions asked

so the day after donald trump announces

that he's running for president i call

my dad and i go put 500 on donald trump

winning right now this is the the for

sure thing and he was like you're

[ __ ] great

that's fun

it's hilarious

oh my god

so did you really think he was gonna win

yeah i knew it i literally like had a

vision like i was like i tweeted the day

of actually i have like a record of this

saying like donald trump is the

president america deserves and he's the

president america will get and that's

absolutely true and i knew that he was

going to win the entire time like i

could just how was my question for you

what do you think about 2024

he could win he could win 2024 pretty

easily i think

yeah i've been thinking the same thing

but i think that would possibly like

destroy the country that might even be

like like i don't know like

like yeah like i don't know if people

can handle that um i

i don't know man but i don't like i

think he could win but like also like

like the fact that he could win means

that maybe like 2024 will be like 2020

and like 20 times worse you know what i

mean because like that's the only way

that it was possible for him to not to

have won last time right was like all

this [ __ ]

do you think like the delta variants

gonna cause chaos before then or what do

you think we're doing this forever man

um i could just quote you on andrew

sullivan or whatever he said he wanted

he one of the goals of the biden policy

the blind doctrine now is to make uh

public health a permanent national

security concern so what do you think

that means like if you translate that

out of ideology speak

[ __ ]

yeah you're right 100 right

yeah i mean this is like uh yeah so so

that's why also right if we're talking

about civil liberties and stuff like

that that actually is the perfect thing

to rally around

under these conditions because we're

actually being denied our civil

liberties

and that's what everyone in the working

class recognizes

well yeah i mean uh on that note though

i think

yeah confused

you should argue uh you should argue uh

lauren southern that would be funny um

we'll see yeah um

all right it's always a pleasure to have

you on man

yeah man it's a good talk nice talking

to him i just wanted to like get some

[ __ ] out because i've been thinking

about stuff and it's easier to talk to

you than to get [ __ ] on [ __ ] break

the rules or any of these other things

yeah yeah true

um

all right man we'll talk again

all right man see he saw the if you want

to shout like your stuff out like the

his logo yeah it's the lego

title

it's logo daedalus on twitter and then

what's your podcast

the podcast it's uh the pseudo-doxology

podcast network you can just find it on

my twitter account though um yeah we're

kind of pretentious so we use like

obscured words and [ __ ] uh it's a good

form of encryption though you know keeps

the normies out keeps the [ __ ] shitty

people out so um yeah go do that i wrote

a novel or a poetry collection you know

you can probably [ __ ] pirate those

two i don't really care but uh i just

wanted to chill and talk to y'all and

get the word out you know so peace out

everyone

thank you so much

bye-bye hello

uh hello

thank you so much vermillion appreciate

it if i missed any of you guys sorry

about that

um let me see if i missed anyone chris

morlock thank you desolano with the one

you have any suggestions for

californians pertaining to the recall

election

no i don't know anything about that

uh chris morlock appreciate you man um

let me read through anyone else i missed

vermillion

britsu thank you for the sub ben

uh

[Music]

okay

neat already gotcha

all right see you later logo