INFRARED RUMBLE: MASSIVE SERVER-WIDE DEBATE

wo

the time has come

yes thank you charm hole and go ahead and unban charmhole

and charmill stop fucking roun getting bann in my bucket server

the time has come

to put our funk and foot down

and be clear about something

that doesn't seem like it was very clear

we

are

one hundred percent

marxist leninist

in the age of multipolarity in the post covered world we are orthodox marxist ltinists

and infrared is different from other

communist

communities in that

we don't ban people for having opposing ideologies

we don't ban people for not being marxs sclins if you're not a marxist slinist

and you want to be part of the infrared community

stick around

you're welcome

we won't ban you

we don't care about your ideology

we care about what you can contribute in terms of knowledge and in terms of insight

so on and so forth

we will not ban you for not being marxist lenderess and for not sharing our ideology we will not

we will not we've never done that

by the way we've never done that

but

there's a difference betweenfrared which is the dan shau being

internet platform

where we

allow for we are chinese style communist which means

we believe in a dialectic of a unity of opposites the infrared main line

and then the opposite of the line which is the eclectic and ambiguous views

of opposing ideologies and people with opposing views and we tolerate both

in order to strengthen

the first line so this is two line struggle developed by mous the on within mouss it on thoughts

and let me teach you about two lines struggle

two line struggle does not mean the eradication of all other lines by one line

it's a unity of opposites

the other line must be allowed the false line the erroneous line must be allowed to breathe

must be a lot to have free and open expression

in order for the correct line the party line

to be maintained

just like dang shauping

he did that with the economy there's two lines

the socialist five year plan of the communist party

and then the wild and ambiguous market forces

influenced by international capitalism

which thy shelping allows to develop

in order to strengthen and consolidate chinese socialism

this is the chinese

dialectical logic of un and yang the eastern wisdom

that infrared has adopted

and many people don't understand that

now why are we doing this then

what's the problem the problem is

the overall guiding infrared vision has been distorted

what infrared in particular

not an individual who may or may not be part of the infrared community but the collective

the collective vision of infrared

has been distorted

it's becoming obfuscated

certain things that i have said in the past are being taken

and erroneous implications

and conclusions are being drawn from this there's a number of them

infrared

has begun a study and an interrogation

of various forms of non western and western for that matter

alternate histories and alternate interpretations of history

and different forms of sovereignty and different proto forms of socialism and the essence of socialism

the camon sociality the fucking

fundamental meaning of land reform who is the good guy who's the bad guy

the mere exoneration of sultan abdulhammad the second

against the

freemsonic

young turk movement for example

the view that

the zardum of muscovie

the ching dynasty the mongol empire mongol modernity all these new ideas the reconciliation

between marxism and religion

and traditionalism

this is the joyous

golden age of marxist leninist thinking in the united states

thanks to the infrared movement and there is nothing like it

there is nothing like it

this is a golden age a breath of fresh air revitalizing communism in the west

which is what we're doing

which is what we're doing

although

some are drawing false conclusions from this

which i consider to be erroneous

there are those i heard this morning

from my mad's

that there are some people in the server

defending imperial japan

claiming that imperial japan is

doing something similar to russia today

with russia's special military operation saying oh japan was based because it was non western

i've heard various deviations

i've heard whispers of people

mounting

a campaign to exonerate

gladio operatives

during italy's years of led

i've heard

i know of directly

this

franco posting nonsense where there's this cult of personality of franco that is trying to be pushed by one poster in particular

and there's a handful of people that seem to be jumping on board

why are all these things false and wrong i'm not just going to sit here and call them fascist

we are going to have a struggle session

and we are going to make a critique of it

and we're going to discuss

and vehemently debate

these various deviations

of the infrared mainline because they are deviations they so much one manyreciate accidentally got bem from saying the n word from the server i didn't know any better can you and ben me discord name is johnny rebel lives number eight thousand seven hundred twenty three

why would you say the n word are you black

why would you say it why would you say the nword

that's not an accident

ok

that is not an accident i'm sorry to tell you what what kind of funcking accident is that you accidentally said

the n word

no you know what you were doing

you can't accidentally say the god i mean what did you did your hands on your keyboard

tight the wrong

i mean what do you mean it was an accident

couldn't possibly be an accident i mean you even get banned from the goddamn telegram

for that stupid shit

no end word allowed we're pretty lenient on free speech

when it comes to every fuck and word in the book

no one word

i have instituted this policy of no end word

because infrared is in fact part

of the conspiracy of the ire world empire thanks so much

destiny's crack dealer

the black world empire

and kara boga theory

on r t s g august will tell you more about that

but infrared

is a block

organilak organization now we doing it with a hard heart it was stupid i just didn't know it was a rule ok

well mo mods to give me the four one one on who this person is and whether they should be on band

the mods will know

thank you for the five by the way

infrared

we are

a black

organization

we read what du goan has said about this matter dugan has said everything about this matter

that needs to be said

so

we tolerate free speech

no one word

period

by the way the telegram you can you can say anything you want no one word

that's our rule no en word

anyway

ok

let me tell you something

because people need to be clear about this shit ok

infrared has a main official guiding ideology and then we let you guys believe whatever the fuck you want you can really have any ideology you want we do to give a fuck

as long as the main acknowledging

the main guiding ideology is acknowledged as the official one

the official one is being diluted

by our right deviation

and also there's the left deviationist because the left deviationists are also in the server and they're always constantly calling for you to get bann oll ban this person ban that person

so i'm not i goant to make it very clear

i'm not giving

room to the left deviationist

we're going to crack down on the right deviationist

and we're going to be cracking down on the left deviationist

both of them at the same goddamn time the golden stalinist centor will prevail

ladies and gentlemen

that's what's going to be happening tonight

the golden

stalin's center will prevail

ok

that will prevail

every

your telegram

infrared is a one hundred percent

marxist leninist

guiding principle guiding ideology

deviation is the must be confronted

through debate

we're not going to ban you for being a deviationst

but we will debate you

and even if you don't agree with us in the end at least the official infrared line

will be immortally established and enshrined in stone tablets so no one can represent the official infrared position

i don't want to see

these people

who are putting infrared globes and then fucking mussolini

on their goddamned twitters

that's you that's not us that's not the official infrared line

you got it

we are marxterssleaniness

now

we're not going to get our panties in a bunch

forre you doing that

we don't give a fuckus

the internet at the end of the day

but i mean people they're putting on a fucky infrared globe and then

some hitler shit

it's not what we stand for

you're trying to hijack the infrared

guiding ideology

to serve your own ends and it's dishonest

it's dishonest

you need to be honest about what infrared stands for

because it's very clear and canonical now we may be tolerant of other ideologies

because we're not poseason we're we're we can debate anything we don't give a buck

and i think the community is more than well capable

of debating anything we're not scared

of other ideologies

ok

it's the cia whatever it is

we're not it's inevitable we're not scared of utter ideologies

but we need to put our foot down and make it clear

where infrared stands

on these issues infrared is marxism leninism chinese style

which means we have that yin yang

dialectic we believe in the unity of opposites

we believe in the unity of the correct

and we give breathing room for the false

so we're not here to exterminate other ideologies

or even the false line it's two lines struggle uphld the guiding line of infrared

give breathing room to the false line

in order that we may self critique ourselves

better

stronger than ever before

then shallping mousted tong thought

style marxism lenism that's what we stand for it's the most unique political community on the funcking internet

you go to midwestern marxis discord and you bann you for being a maga communist

we don't ban you for being any ideology in our discord server and that's why the far right tends to gain so much prominence

on twitter

when they're like oh there's this far right person

on infrared's discord

or on infrared telegram yeah because we don't ban for ideology

and when when there' is free speech

the leftist it's like there's a big fish which are the far right people and they gobble up these leftists like their little chicken nuggets

because lft is our put these you can't fok and defend yourself

you can't debate yourself you can't assert your position

so you get gobbled up

by the right is because your position is bankrupt it's indefensible

you are incompetent you're a fucking loser and you've been comfortable with this position you have because of big tech censorship

you have always been in your comfort zone

to the point where your position has never been challenged

so all of a sudden you have to confront these right wing people

and you're not used to being able to do that right because you're a fucking pussy who's hiding behind censorship

and they're gobbling you up like you're a little chicken nugget you're pathetic

it's not my fault you're a fucking shitty incompetent debater

don't come at me and complain about shit

you are incapable

of debating on

that's what we've always had but why do i have to intervene i have to intervene now because

i don't want to ban the franco guy babasla i don't want to banhim he's a good guy

he's a good guy

but i've warned him so many times stop with the franco shit it's fucking annoying

because it's like spam now if you want to have some nuanced tovi youw and be like oh

and during the cold war franco was not that friendly with nato and you know he was friends with fidel castro that's like nuance that's nuance work i'm not

i'm ok with nuance

i don't care actually right

but when it's getting to the point where you're making

wlame of liberation

style info graphics

just like the dumb shit he does with saddam it's like

what is up with these funk and ideologies where you just find some random strong man leader

who has no relevance any more

and you're like oh this should also be integrated with communism saddam was also a communist oh franco was also wherees the shitp come from

right it's annoying it's spam it's stupid

we're here for the future now

i have some disagreements

with the jaho wing of the community the jaho stuff is gaining some prominence as well i'm fine with it

but i've also

have had criticisms of that too

but at least the jahu people are forward future oriented

where they're like we love robots we want

amazon to automate everything we want you know complete automation

elon ust we botic ai future i mean like that's all great stuff

that's kind of in line with the infrared vision

which is why we don't really crack down on it

because it's

ultimately

helping the infrared kind of

make a tankee infrared vision right

but

what the fuck is this franco stuff i mean what even if you're right which i don't think you are

what is it what good is it right what do we learn from what

frankol was a funcking loser

he had to rely on u s loans

after that he was onne

puppet of spain's dynastic

spooky

landholding elite class

and the spanish royal family b thank you shame appreciate you

we cannot allow foreign forces to infiltrate our infrared movement

think about csantus and trum

purge the dissenters and frank we're not going to purge anyonus we're going to debate thing all about dialectic sauceas someone who is far right i welcome the intellectual discussion between the two in order to reach a synthesis of ideas

yeah we do debate we don't do this banning shit that's pussy shit

and the banning that we do if listen a lot of people have complained he has

i got ban in your discord if you got bann in my discord blame discord don't fuck and blame us we don't want our server to get fucking banned

that's why we banned you it's not because we want to ban you from the community

goud diuscord makes a spuck and banu

so you put our server in danger somehow blame discord don't fucking blame me

if you got bann got it

if it was my way

no one would the only listen if it was my way this is what would get banned ready

anime

would get banned

all sexual content would get banned and the n word would be banned and that's it

literally that's it

that's it no sexual content no pornography

no anime

no on word

everything else you can fuck in

say

that would be my rule for an online community

i'm not discord won't let me have that freedom

so

you got to take it to the telegram

i'm not a pussy that's why we allow free speech by the way getting your panties in a bunch because of a fucking ideology shut the fuck up bitch

i don't know i di pt i dit i out europe didnt debta

you don't bitch

why you so insecure

but we uphold the infrared line

we phld the infrared line and that's what fucking matters there's an infrared line

marxism ltinism in the age of multipolarity in the post gover world wen i to present stalin as we i present may was

capital c communist

make a ank's rising

maga communism

is here to stay

we've got a clear line

it's a clear golden stalinist center there's the right deviations and there's the left deviations

and it's a golden soalinist center and it's a very consistent

coherent vision

we have going here and infrared

you understand i'm here to reassert the infrared line

to make it clear to all to make it clear to the world

more why did you get kicked out of the thiscord i mas bring him back unless he committed some egregious

horrible crime

bring them back to debate

carlo go bring him back to debate he wants to debate about it

i

the franco nonsense

will be confronted i don't know i the boss is going to be debating but

what is this shit about imperial japan i'm hearing ok

we're going to be debating this shit about imperial japan so much carl appreciates i want to talk about franco morphos number eight thousand six hundred eighty nine got kicked out the discord

thank you so much carlo appreciate you

but thank you so much p js ideas is to admit intellectual absolutely that's what i've always believed

when it comes to an online comi's what i always believe

how are we going to reach the masses if you're too fucking scared to tolerate

someone who has an opposing view than you it's so fucking stupid

if you don't do what i do you end up like midwestern marks of discord

were theyre banning maga communists it's so fucking stupid

how different are we from midwestern marks

'unlike ninety nine percent of issues

not different at all right

but i but because we disagree about the revolutionary strategy in the united states

i guess

and the baristas

that's grounds to fucking ban us were the same as neo nazis a

so fucking stupid like how's starian is that

right

we're not going to end up like that where you where's the line right

that's what left is do they ban everyone ban every opposing view is just sectarianism we're not going to do it

our primary contradiction is anti establishment at the end of the day

word

if we're on the same i mean even people who shill for the establishment are allowed in the discord

right

but

it's like

we don't see other people who are fighting the establishment as dangerous

unless the wrecking that initiative

and they're fucking up our optics and they're their feds and wreckers and shit then yeah fuck them right

but i don't give a fuck if someone is like some right wing guy

who's against the establishment

how is that a danger to me how is that a threat to me it's not

but what i'm concerned about is up holding the infrared line within our community

to make it clear where we stand what this vision stands for and to clear the record on what i have meant

and the things i have said in the past

reflecting my own positions

so this is just as much a struggle session within the infrared community

as much as it is

has al been clearing the goddamn record as far as where i stand on these several issues

o

red you got banned

from

from midwestern marxs discord right

yeah

that is hilarious

at is hilarious anyway we're going to be doing this now so this is this imperial japan

guy

so if a mob wants to come in here and give their side of the story

go ahead

so that go domet yourself and speak

what you want me to say

first of so prisdom says you were comparing you mean semi a samia whispered in your you know no me was shut the fuck up first of all

i have not talked to samira about any of this

you stop making assumptions no no no

so shut the fuck up about that

prism told me

that you were saying something about japan being the same as russia' special military

what were you saying what was that what was that jibber jibber about go ahead n no no no

now

now that's just simere taking me out of context

samira has nothing to do with this is

its to me as yes it has everything to do with why because prisoner right prison get in here

because clearly there's a mis what dose presum know about boss

he doesn't know prisers prism w one shut up prisons the one who told me we're going to have prison supports godi insst he supports goti insist what

well you don't know gond defuct his niece

i i i'm we're going to have prism come in here and clarify what's going on i don't know what the fuck's going on

someone get prism in here

or is he not available

so what is this gandhi ok first of all

we're not going there

yet

we're going to first

ok what is this shit

about imperial japan go ahead

okay so

that

blue cap

that i'm mentioning samuah

the what

all of a sudden

i can't say the words

we're on you tube di you ust you word that's not a lot on you tube

a know i said blue cap

what is that you know

the emocy man you know what it means

blue

i don't know what that means

okay

a

that is something that

a puzzle piece in your brain

ok

you mean a puzzle piece ok go ahead

yeah ya

ok so puzzle piece samua

we went into a

ight

i don't even know how she was defending the c p i

the indian communists supporting

the and c

against

bos who was the legitimate leader

of the ion sea

who was the

who was youpos a ten collaborator

hoor did japan collapse

but he fought for

indian independence the mutiny of nineteenred and forty six would have not occurred

if it went' for thet the communists wanted india's independence

but

h of course they wanted it what

so they opposed as they alsopos collaborating with japan didn't they

um

ok have you heard of mouse quotes

on japan

on the imperial army

what did he say

okay

so i already pasted it in v sitcha but i said of course so this is from isworth i said of course the invasion was bad

in relation to

japan's invasion of

came to china and china as a whole but we should not look at this bad side alone

on the other our hands japan has done us a great favour in china

if japan had not occupied

half of china the chinese people would have not awakened

in this respect we have to

tank

the japanese imperial army so what the st moles dialectical thinking but

yes yes but the thing is the thing is prism or samira prism is a

clone of simuliting i was saying that let the acting equivocating mouse

a pragmatic approach

in rather than looking at

purely a ideology because sami was was saing

oh we should

support weseuch

always critically opposed

japan because they're

the fascist state when in a felt these are you now i told you don't me are god to like you me like you said no you compare that's abt that's all i said i was not involved in your debate brok

like i don'll know ww you're dragging me into this sh ok so who who whispered in your ear who

other than samea

its clear as you sell us soce is in a debate i mean this is what you said did you not std you not compare to the n no

i dijdt wasn't obviing to the debate

i didn't take part in it but i was listen to that shoit you compared to this i

the point when i was okay i will get to the russeeting the special military operation how i was equivocating

a the point i was making

' was that

mau in his case saw that

the japanese attacking china was an opportunity to seize national

the a sip the same way that

ozerd hind and bos

saw away

leads

a

the indian national movement because the i and c so fucking wasn't but the was hold on there's a difference

so ma was saying

he was dialectically speaking about how the japanese created the chinese resistance against the japanese

and that the chinese resistance awaken the chinese nation

he wasn't saying we want to take this opportunity to pragmatically align the japan and its plans

for the east asia greater prosperity i mean a satanic evil

disgusting horrific

anti human

klous swab asian cklous schwab world order which is what japan was creating dee growth

depopulation genocidal

you know completely sa tanic godless anti human

you know

yeah system in east asia

the asian great reset is what they called it

you you know what

ok i'm calling you oh youh

so

you're saying these

these indian leaders were

collaborating with japan

but there were anti colonial indians within india

who opposed the british colonization who had the support of the soviets by the way

who didn't find it necessary to collaborate with the japanese

i mean what is japan doing in india why is japan in india

okay okay so what what did the c p i do what what what

brilliant maneuvers did the c p i do to achieve india's independence

what during the whole what did the boo guys do what did he do

oka so both

he gathered fifty thousand indians who had left to die in malaya

by the british

because

without the indians britain would have

completely lost

the world war because they did not have the manpower

so

what bos did

who was

that

syopt out of the i and c leadership because he proposed

the revolutionary accent just the same way mau did

and just the same way ak of our i would

instead being replaced by the soy cock

gandhi

who

all the british

i'm glory

anglo boxes will say oh he achieved india's liberation no it was bos

because without him the mutiny of ninethunenred forty six

which occurred after the trial of the three generals

who in fact

we're not all hindu natalists as a lot of

angli's impirasis were claimed

one was hindu

one was muslim i don't mean about i would and one was sikh

i don't i don't care about that listen

the problem is india has never been independent

because they just gained a formal independence

but the indian ruling class has always been

closely in bed with the british empire even to this day

so i don't know what independence there is to speak of

whether accomplished by gandhi or boz i do not see a real independence

i see india still part of the commonwealth

indias never actually truly seceded from the british empire of course the british were not going to let india go

just like that

i wasn't boz who was responsible for that it wasn't gandhi it

never really happened to begin with

so to s so so what you think

a nascent light

so what about the kemalis example in turkey what kamal didn't

create his own create a naation out of nothing for example of course indians could have done it the same way

it was the fact that the iron sea allowed the continuation of british administration and british institutions and allowed for

at all

all the systems in place which

robbed india of its wealth and why india is still far behind of china behind china to this stay what would collaboration with the japanese have en sailed

do

just because

your

tactically

aligning

with someone

doesn't mean that they're going to

completely

completely subjugates you of course and chinaing it makes no sense because if you were the real leader

now that was just the circumstances of the second world war

why not

plan to ally with the soviet union

to liberate india

because the soviets weren't willing to

and

so

o

one they didn't want to

first of all

w why would they

go behind the british like for example this is one of the main reasons tito

and stalin split over

the issue of greece stalin agreed with the british

we will notellow

greek communists to rise up

and we will let you keep your sphere of influence

now

and of course this made sense because

stallin wants it to

keep his fear in the east

and this is

ah oh so what it what you means was there that such an agreement was kept

with regard to india

because the the borders of india and the soviets were

wek

by purpose drawn like that

have you ever noticed the afghani border between

uh india

now modern day pakistan

and the soviets now modern day i think

touji kis stan

do you notice that little slipverer

on well that's wy this because it was drawn so that the soviets and the

british wouldon't collide

they want to keep a buffer zone

and that's what ends

although

the soviets you could say were ideologically different from the russian empire they continued that policy

of

freezing diot

great game that of it a that was happening in the eighte hundres of the critical element is of course china

right

because china

threw off

the japanese invaders threw off the yoke of the japanese invaders of course china was still partially colonized by the british

and the british still had ambitions to keep china

in their own quote unquote sphere of influence

so

why could there not be an anti colonial revolution on the part of india without supporting

japan

without ally because the indians were

purposeflly being starved off

purposely be being fed of propaganda around fifty four thousand grains

of not thousand grains thousand tons

of rice were being exported out of bengal during the bang at that time i'm not denying a bengal famine i'm not denying it yet i was saying thath the japanese were bombing

s

military targets

relief to that famine

which comes into contradiction with the view that

the u s asar told britain that india is there is now the u s is our cultivated its own relations with india

and this ya but this in

these the military and political alignments of india only

fully materialized under the crucified era

and that's one

india really lye in that was when india was aligned with

the remnants of the british empire in the form of j f k

and the others who were creating a

packed against china

that'

but india the reason why india's foreign policy is formulated the way it is is because of the i and ss legacy which wouldn't have been the case if

boce was in power instead this is the wrong equivocation you're making oh what difference

which one man

over another be in the political struggle it has everything but the reait what you're missing is that imperial japan was destined to defeat that doesn't seem to fit

within that greater strategy by bos

you had the valiant chinese people the korean people's

resisting the japanese aggressors

you had the u s asar eventually come and get rid of japan out of mancheria

so on and so forth so why is bos has hedging his bets on an untenable

imperial japan fundamentally onteno i mean

japan

is quote unquote imperial japan what precedent

for a fuking empire exist in japan what history of any emby mean japan is a fuking island

there's no hinterlands

and had to parasitize

the rest of asia

it's a completely art it's like hedging your bed siding with israel

it's a completely fake synthetic artificial

imperials it's a completely hyper modern

barbaric ideology they created with no historical organic basis

how is it wise to collaborate with imperial japan

and hedge one's bets on the greater so called greater east asia

prosperity s fear

as as

replace the words

okay so you said uh hyper

a individualistic or modernistic society barbaristic island

h you

does that sound familiar yeah but oh yeah they beli anglo empire

yes india was on the

only toay that

no one denies that

but japan

in the immediate short term

was untenable

even from a pragmatic perspective

it's untenable so even if even if it wasn't moral

it was also unwise to want to strategic or tacticle alliance with imperial japan

when the defeat of the japanese imperial aggressors was one hundred percent certain it was a complete certainty

with or without the british by the way the british what of the british do

it was the chinese and koreans and others

who carried the brunt of the struggle against the japanese was the u s tsar

and then also admittedly america and the pacific islands at least

so

what did the british have to do with it

the british fought the japanese a little bit

not nearly as much as the other

forces fighting japan at the time

yeah that

but that's the points both

didn't have to

y

was only relying on japan as a tactic support before japan

he was considering having

um

the germans invade to iran to secure in india's independence now you can say oh no not hitler not hitler hitler bad ok so we get it hitler is

the boogie man but you know we have other people in history like

gusa felt to enybd the business s but i don'ts

hitler ok yeah i don't care that's the point i don't care about i knowledge i don't care about you molism

or posit sre but that's what i'm saying you're wrong about because even from a cold pragmatic perspective

it's foolish to ally with a

madman like hitler

in addition to imperial japan no prospect of victory no chance of victory at all

but that is the poin for example burma

the first prime minister of burma ong son the father of ong song suchi

he wouldon't have

gain independence for burma the way he did if he hadn't let the japanese

go to his country and had the japanese

formally declared burma's independence and we had you know what iy s sentence afterward

the british

assassinated him

and installed a siup government in

in his place which was eventually coupd so there i a military so that's what happens when you rely on foreign powers to secure your independences that of digging deep

and the soil of your own people to do it

this guy bos you're talking about why couldn't he rally the indian countryside

and the indian peasants

to achieve the liberation of india that's what he had to them on his side he had them on his side i did it i always did it w he did

hang on raising a ma

gov he could have waged a massive huge people's war

against

british britain he went to japan instead it makes no sense to me

relying on foreigners to liberate your own people how is that

how was that

so how did how did check seccheve that how did he achieve national leadership sign up to frank you go the ninety tens and i su him do you think he just

at tact he just had all the information about

about how to conduct the northern offensive no he went to the japanese military school

to get all this inforceust want they will always need went to that was military school and he came back to china and he rallied the chinese people

and then also he rallied some of them by the way because they ended up going to

that's what you're missing here what what did mao do mao went to the countryside and he won the chinese peasant which is why

sorry

crag my voice

that is why

the chinese won the chinese awar

right

that's your you have he couldn't have done that if the opportunity of world war two never occurred

if it

he would have his ishes have what do you what do you know about the long march

what do you know about the one nine hundred thirty s what the communist party was doing then in china

yes of course i know they were organizing and creates o their own movement so they lost

half of them met on the long marchs

bways went down on japan

and mao went down to the people

ok youre you're saying this as if bos was located in tokyo

waiting for the japanese orders no he was

all he was given was fifty thousand men

to march into india not nothing else by the japanese

and he had complete o control the you know we sat with them he how you win the nationalation of india without rallying the whole of the indian mass how can you

has how can you

rally the people if

all

all the news outlets there is no way of communicating

of national liberation when all of the countryside is

is

propagated through this cast system imposed by the british

and the

the

liberal muslim league which was

an anglo siah

so what was what was imperial japan's plan for the caststem you think you thing imperial japan as we what do you think imperial japan could have survived a dozen more years after the war of course not

bos one

need to rely on japan if he had all of india

it's like saying oh the p r c needed to rely on the soviets hell no mao

as soon as

cusp came into power mouth disregarded the soviets he could say fuck you i don't need you i will conduct my own people's revolution i will lead the tot world

i will i don't need your

bucking revisionism to guide my own ods is setting up india for disaster

regional how could you know that if you were if mo died i mout died in the long march you would be saying the same thing no i was you know i wing to disclose

is allying with imperial japan which is the enemy of all the peoples of asia

and the he wants to build a state

based on this alliance

how does that square if india wants to cut its

reliance on the west and be a regional power

how the hell is india going to have

friendly regional relations with its neighbors

when india is out here saying yeah we are we owe our independence and our statehood to the

people who exterminated and tried to enslave and kill and slaughter all of you

um how does that make sense its seems h

regionally it's a complete disaster

what for india to

tactically i ally with the japanese in the short term

yeah

as so

what what other option would they have had

continue with the bridges for another on hundred years no they would have

no because

for example you can wage an anti colonial war of liberation against the british

as india is not china india is not china india does not have the mattle of he

mantle of heaven

there is not a centralized organ for the indians to rally behind there is a like you were saying there is not

a unifying di force there was an anti colonial

movements in india

it was very diverse you're right but

there could have been one that imer i mean china

would have been more than happy to assist india in its war of liberation

against any foreign power

that was actually china's policy for a long time that china went to war and fucking korea

to do the same

so

you know

of course china would have helped india

liberate themselves

from the british

why didn't boz make our alliance with the chinese maybe should'

he was such a great leader

how could he communicate communicate with mao

across all the terrain not tom you know the same guy i mean anything but japan

oh anything but sp how could mouse supports

how couln malpa support bars in india like

what kind of mental gymnastics are you trying to pull

the soviets would't help

the later you could not helping all saying

listen

it's very clear

from the trend of history

britain was not planning on keeping its overseas

direct empire

i mean in africa it's embarked on its deconization it was planning the same for india there's no doubt about that whatsoever

because the americans

under roosevelt objected to the european empires america is the factory you're missing here

america wanted india's independence that's what you're missing

so but in i don't buy this idea that will both did was necessary for india's independence i don't buy that at all

i think indiak would have become independent either way the only difference is that boes was trying to make

india is some kind of ally of japan's

greater east asia co prosperity spere whatever

and be basically an accomplice to the imperials of japan hedgemons

plans for the region

so what about the and cs continuation of english institutions

luck

like yeah but that's that gond the gone if you have relotion and you dont to the ninetund real that's the point i'm trying to communicate to you

india's real revolution

india's real anti colonial movement

would have to be from the ground up and yet if you need foreign help for that just like the chinese needed help from the soviets

the chinese would probably be more than happy to assist the indians

toward that end

oky

and to

this so do you

from what you' goat a would you claim boss is some sort of fascius

were hitl the right

as some people are claiming he i don't know enough abouttom to say that but i do think he's a loser in history because he lost

saddam

was a loser because he lost

franco was a loser because he also lost

why is there this cult of losers that starting to emerge

in the infrared server that is the question we're here to

i mean what is with this thing where you fight you fixate on this

relatively maligned historical figure

like flame liberation is really the guy who started it with saddam right

he started with saddam and he creates a cult of saddam

based on what what's the relevance

why not learn from the failure and move on and try to do something better

i don't like the cold of allum is

the problem is a sign of

they're trying to make it seem like this guy's stalen

was a loser he wasn't a fucking loser salin was a huge har my fucky say salon was a lose say all it' a hollan was not like bos

he wasn't like franco he wasn't like saddam

was like these other people he was a winner he actually won

he didn't and mo was intalled stalin was in mou

and the i was always w smile was a winner to by the way

ma was yeah but mark maw was very close

u was disclose to losing and you wouldnow regard it the same way if i think my was a winner on hundred percent winner

winer material yeah because the angles of history guar guaranteed

by

miraculousness that he won

yat of i believe i believe which would have happened li there without japanese assistance

which you cannot deny mao could not have achieved national

le leadership

without the japanese occupying

and weakening the right k m t and the right devious devianants

not even the fucking

soviet that's not so ax in with in mouth want to give ut this ans to the start you that's like a chicken egg whatever stupid dilemma because it's like well the k m t also wouldn't have existed

without the significance of

japan's you know modern i mean even do chinese communist

learned from

before imperial japan

the second iteration of it at least you know in the tens in the twenties

yeah japan was like the center of asia because it was the closest to the west

so

that was something that was going to happen inevitably is what i'm trying to say japan

had prying

i mean he was preying on china that was inevitable

so you're saying oh ma wouldn't of rose par without japan invading

the cam t wouldn't have existed without that wider context that gave rise

to the japanese invasion so that's what you're missing

yeah but to

the the problem with your argument that

we cannot venerate people who lost in history like for example you could just say oh s sun was a loser

mobuay was a not mobuamb there all the long live the new china the all and i there's a century this long live shch in pang

long go toard gena paso today long life nows tonge calong pler top as the chena well ta

do we go therey are n we to everyone is creena fosso you asked them what

what's our political future like we' got to learn from skar and

carry that forward right

now you contrast that go to iraq today and ask you about saddam

some people may be nostalgic for him right

but there's no real's not he's

provoking these big ideas among

masses of be oh yeah we got a

nobody believes you can go back to saddam in any meaningful sense

but what difference with st

the difference with saddam is we know for a fact

that he was

propagated by the cia we know for a fact that he overtoow the leftist facts and within the baats party he was a right deviations supported the by the cia and as soon as he got power he executed all his

all the meaningful bahatis who supported unification with egypt

and the was united was it's similar in the case with

franco

you know

there's a difference between a leader whos successful

and then you know

but what is this reverence of this cult of lo i mean

listen

what is significant about

bos

being upheld today what is significant about that

he left he left

one

he left andre shoko

i

you what is significan why the need to exonerate bos in the collaboration with imperial japan

couldn't you at least say oh i wanted

it's good for anyone to fight for india's independence but the whole

alliance with the birl japan was a mistake why is that something that needs to be defended

ok

let me tell you this

we

first let me get my

barbell

and i'm going to do curs w so i tell you this

so first sof

you need to realize that

just because i bought

dames

achieve

he's nr aims

the intensiones were there

that

then

but the problem is

british propaganda and

the way indian or society was organized

it couldn't allow him to penetrate the indian's subconsciousness he only had

ten years

to achieve this

even less

ands

of course the british

like i'm saying

did not allow

for

hear his message and when they di

after the trials that tried to

eight

let me find the convictsion they were given

for ok so s grass maybe i admittedly i don't know the indictment against the generals was wage quote wagingle war

against the king emperor

and i could easily say i don't know that much about bos sungrass you want to take the floor and

what do you have to say about this because all i know only information i'm getting is that boz was a guy

the indian national

movement or whatever

the army

he was collaborating with imperial japan to liberate india

i mean i get the whole thing that gandhi was a cock i have no objections to that

it's just i'm what do you have to say sungross maybe you can illuminate it

a little better for us

i just think that allying yourself

with the tiger

was a bad idea

mao was on a fucking dumbass

an ally with the japanese

uh i don't know anything about this fucking bos guy i'm not indian history nerd or whatever

but i think

allying yourself with japan is a stupid idea

yeah that seems to be my view as well right

i think the important question in re here

is that like this guy has yet to provide any evidence

to prove that beaux would not end up becoming

uhm

is not any different from just being an indian version of step on

bandera

or wanging well in china i just said that his generals and his ideology were pros nothing to do with idiology me let me let me

and it doesn't matter t was sort by ideology m right so that

both i see how lot of them bys k bose thellines with japan was a failure objectively right

ok that happened in the past it was a failure

now meanwhile the legacy of japan's atrocities for the chinese and for the koreans

and for other people

in east asia and south asia i mean

very clear and the let the legacy of that is very clear right

so why do you need to die on the hill of offending chinese and jaa

koreans and others

by saying oh yeah if i were to go back in time i would have o i mean

what is the point of saying that what significance does that have here and now what it what what is the implication of that right now

see the problem with

to like no no

india

is its own front china is its own front the chinese could have beaten the japanese all it wanted

the tink i'm saying is what this happened in the past you're making it seem like this is happening now and it's not

it happened in the past

so why are you trying to exonerate

the japanese effectively it's kind of what you're doing you're kind of like oh yeah

the japanese aren't that bad

can you see how that's not

a disaster in the eyes of someone who's chinese or korean

well i could say the same thing if i were a ukrainian i would say to you

oh

isn't it harmful that you're defending glover of fer's comments

ondo hold on n more di suppos it hold on n more no not true

yeah exactly n that's why why do you agree with question no no no no no that's where you lose me

you're trying to compare the claims about stalin in relation to ukraine

to the actual real

the atrocities committed by japan

against the people of east asia as if that's even close to being comparable

and it's not

let me tell you

you know that the

like

we are talking about a

systemic policy of extermination enslavement and subjugation

based on a satanic hyper modern ideology adopted by the japanese

i mean we are talking about one of the world's most underrated evils

in all of human history i mean we are talking about the return of satan on earth

the incarnation of satan that's liter i mean

the japanese

the imperial japan is probably the most evil empire in the history of humanity that i can think of

and yes even

in some degrees

in some aspects they were even worse than the nazis

right

so

that's very clear to me

but they're try from the sameo how from the same clot how that

how is that comparable

to stalin in relation to

ukraine

is what i'm trying too i'm not saying it's comparable i'm saying i could make the same equivocation that you were placing you gon't know what i'm s no how you could not im somehow you offending koreans and japanese your koreans and chinese you know i stating the case for both

versus the incest clique of gandhi

and his buffoon ss nobody are f on working i don't defend gandhi i don't like gandhi no one here likes him

but

so do you support the position that the c p i was carrying out the positivist and stalen line by

goodness

by wholeheartedly supporting thed i and c

without

that

objecting at all a against the

nonviolence statements the

the i and c continued with the c p i for decades until the one nine hundred sixty four split

when the right deviusations in the fn party finally said

no we want to

wholehearted support the i and see led by stptm dong

so

the point i'm making is that

what good did the communist line in india have

like there are people claiming here the c p i

benefited india by ally look look stald in the stalon line in china

was not necessarily

you know

conducive to mous success mou had a break with that line

so i understand that i'm not saying dogmatically that every

thing that was aligned with the soviets position has to be upheld

but you need to talk about what does that mean to actually

create an anti imperialist movement

i why are you venerating bos instead of saying

a real anti colonial movement

both now and in the past would have been going down to the soil of the people

and building a national movement

from there

so can you name one other person or one other on organization in during that time they exatly one may a it was a only one may very well have not existed

but then if you want to talk about lost opportunities

why not say

why not try and reflect on the mistake of india's communist and say the indian communists

should have been more like the chinese

and went down to the countryside yeah even if that means objecting to the orders from m

the common turn in the soviets

building an indian national kind of movement a communist movement in india

with indian characteristics i mean

why because we're talking about missed opportunities in the past this is my point

bose did not succeed

and this so therefore when you're trying to say oh yeah both you're talking about a missed opportunity because it clearly he failed right

so if we're going to pick and choose what missed opportunities we

refer to

why not just say something like

we need to reflect on the failures of the indian communists

at that point in time

there may have not been anyone who is pursuing the correct line

at that time which

i mean that doesn't seem to be all that

hard to accept it's like

look at the state of india after the war

as you recognize it's still controlled by the anglo institutions

it was it was not as and both was failed he was a failure it wasn't successful

so you need to reflect on the failures instead of trying to

i mean

look i get that people don't like bos

but

that's not a hill to die on to defend him just because others don't like him becuse he still failed

defending him on the internet i change that failure like or ss some sort of god to be venerated

the problem is the way people try to analyze the mal s of history i agree with you

the indian communsts sl have adopted the mao s looksndo was won over by them and i can't say the words integrated in ad like boba lovever say ben a mau oh

the startn line was completely correct it should have been wholeheartedly adopted adopted in india when the material conditions and the political institutions in india

the colonial overreach in india was completely different

from the way that spain was and how

it was the correct line to support the republicans

and the spanish communists against the franquis unlike some i cannt say the word

ire sank like baba loss

was so yeah i agree

the similar but not identical maois position would have been

the ideal but we can't talk about ideals we can only talk with that's my problem you are talking about an ideal

because ultimately boes failed

so treating thehim as anything but a failure is just an ideal

so if you're going to pick and choose your ideals you may as well have a good one

instead of choosing one

that is objectively going to destroy

the diplomatic relations within the infrared community between the indians

the chinese and the koreans

but there's no other person you can look up to

night

wh why is there a need to look up to someone

yes you can look up to some ancient

indian warrior in history and look up to them

why do you need to look up to someone

and india's recent modern history to be missed the problem with the saddam worshippers and the franco worshippers

and these other worshippers

it's

completely pointless why do you need to look up to anyone

why you know what i mean like

look up to stalin if you and you i need an indian guy to look up to ok there's some sure there's plenty

in indian history to look up to

that didn't collaborate within the

imperial japan wrern't failures

plenty of successful indian warriors to look up to in history

plenty

okay but those came after the war like b t r

who he was even are even india's pre modern history you can look up to them

i mean if it's if it's about i need something

to look up to to invigorate my

sense of indian national pride

and willingness to fight for my country i mean

there's plenty

you can draw from

india's a thousands of year old civilization you don't have to

die on the hill of some failed

you know

failed endeavor by bows

what i'm trying to say

f

it would be stupid of me if i was a burmesd and i wouldn't say that

oh h

um

fok i'm forgetting to name you know the first but need it was a failure though no it was not

yeah there was't a failure becausd know

so what were the

whites in burma doing

all they did was

always say all do

the moderates a the moderates are european elite

well

opportunists although they were pragmatically supporting the japanese at first but then when they realized that

britain would finally have

have to be forced to give them independence because the japanese

finally gave the burmese a taste of freedom although

it wasn't of course

a pure freedom but

im

political

freedom un likeke the british who work

intent on keeping political and economic control

whils the japanese would have

for sirre ket

economic control and military whatever but burma's independence was very quickly disposed of and that's why it was a failure

but what the person that burmese look up to is still on son

and there is no one elseant

but then you're basically looking up to a corpse

looking up to a failure you want to be successful look up to someone who's

a winner

so i could just say the same thing for stal and he failed by allowing mo

but he' still onant ho

usteve took power after him i could say the same thing that he failed does this just like yeah look

stalin w you cannot see that there's a similar equivalent by stalin if stalin succeeded

but he also made some mistakes

this initiative to burmese independence

failed you have

being one year or two years independent is not a success sorry to say it's not

but the burmese could not guarantee that independence unlike the soviets who had an economic

and political

structure that was g es and youn get into the history all you want

anyone who cast their lot with imperial japan failed so the lesson we learned from that is

look i'm an arab

arabs have a problematic

historical relation to hitler in some regards

not completely

from what i know a lot of the arab world was against hitler

some of them though

we're sympathetic with the way the germans

we're fighting

a you know france and britain

it's very kind of common sentiment somewhat common sentiment in the arab world to say yeah i'm so glad

the hitler was fighting these people who were occupying our country

but when you actually get to the authoritative

arab

national movements the communist movements

the s s n p

the naceri is the b even the both is right

and you ask them about hitler they're like look that's the past

that was clearly a mistake because hitler was a disaster

he was a failure he attacked the soviets he he

was a horrible no good guy

we don't want to do that hitler stuff we're not

here to idolize hitler

the iraqi officers that were trying to work with the germans who completely failed i mean

they're not there's not going to be huge portraits of them sitting in an arab red square any time soon

because they're like you know what

that was a failure

we're looking forward to the future we don't want

we're not nazis we don't want to be nazis

the collaboration with the germans didn't go anywhere

so it's like

i would understand if it was kind of like that but in your case you're trying to

exonerate the collaboration with the japanese

like imagine i'm talking i don't care about thislit and i don't care whether japan would be communist

fastest

democratic i get to you're ry to say it makes no sense there's no difference from what w i s you should my is a ok wll you you should care about though

is that you're waging an attack

against the chinese and the koreans

when you are

defending a pragmatic alliance with imperial japan it's i'm trying to say no i'm not

but i could say mow you know you know you're missing you know what you're missing is that you're missing the fact that japan and great britain are essentially the same force

they're the same for i agree i agree

no you don't agree because you're saying one is better than the others o p i have notons one is the one the other

if you're choosing one you're choosing the other

i think so i'm talking about the of the light situation

for talking about fancy example utyy what was noany rashid ali bari faky like aar example the autumans what choice they have they have so i

get fuck by the russians

and have the russians

i

liber liberates all of

the balkans quote unquote liberate but

that's another topic

i

four

ally tactically with the devil that they know the british and the french

now these are

this is purely an ideological this is the metronic approach of

simply

choosing not no it's howers that in south it's the jimber jabber approach

ok

were rek

it's the ip zipper chipper approach that

for on hundred years unlik the

post war no no

because post war ia this and what you're at the post you're trying to die on the hill of imperial japan which no longer exists

china and korea still exist

so what you're effectively doing is you're saying i want to ally right now with what some

some elements of the japanese deep state

a lot allied to america

no because current japan

no

o oh

japan has no place in to your politic japan is w current form

dependent on u s head mny o so why w i have so i don't why can't we say i

imperial japan was a disaster

and move on

why why can't it be that simple

i'm not referring to the ideology or the i know you're i know you i don't care and i don't p

no some i' be in a puzzle piece right now because sometimes it's literally that simple

because you have to understand what you're communicating you're doing a lot of intellectual jibber jabber

you need to understand wh you're actually in practice communicating

you're saying something it that's pointless what is the practical mean potatoes

consequences of what you're saying that's what we have to ask

i know you're trying to intellectually die on some hill and it's consistent logically and intellectually

but

why though what's the practical result

what because there needs to be a p youtist why you need to be not positivist

structure that we need to follow just like the stalin light there needs to be something not based on ideology or based on the

so ways you india can replicate with bos did now

no because it's as though it was the on that welient then what's the point

the point is there needs

the jibber jabber that is gandhi and his clique that has been venerated and poped up ok for gandhi i agree i don't like gandhi

so wa ok but youus ms and isn't that any different than samiras who were saying oh but the i and c was correct in supporting the indian i and c against

japan because

the japanese imperialists and this and that

but then again we have

places like

ok so the japanese lost that's why we sent

venerate pos but what if in the case of the russian ukraine

a special military operates and brussel loses it could very well happen there is the possibility can happen

no no's russian anything can happen now in the geopolitical sense unless andlesy russian people e destroy the least likely thing can always happen

at least likely that's all i would say the difference is whatever happens

with the war i will always support

the donates lohans people's republics

it wouldn't matter if russea was let by

a fascist state a communist state

putins us a liberal us or whatever it's not abot on nas youre say listen a sometime talk to gjimber jabber i don't like the jimber jabber i'm hearing too much ideological

phrases i don't like i don't like being overwhelmed all these phrases andk i want to focus on me potatoes

and

listen

the differences

you don't have to

be part of the cult of gandhi and all the implications of that

why don't you focus more on trying to build something new instead of looking toward failed

leaders in the past what can you learn from bos that's what i'm trying to ask

okay what can i learn from both allright so

here's what i can lear

ok

why didn't both succeed well

first he

he

although he had the opportunity to lead the and se

he allowed for the gandhi clique and the

for anglo

forces in the y and sea to take hold

now

it's not like he had all

foresight so i don't know how you could prevent that

unless you go and do a foolstunt in his purch

like salent did which i'm not saying is

any sort that but you can do that in india's

condition of colonial

a back i so i don't know how in so many words

just tell me what you can learn from

you're an indian patriot and you want to liberate india from british empire

and you want to make india great and all this stuff

so what are you going to learn from boz right now what's the takeaway

that you cannot support the one that

feeds your hand who also steals from your hand

so what is that for example

the one that

i don't know what what di you learn as a chinese proverb i cannot follo you ok lif what me you what can you learn from bos besides him not being gandhi

that's a better

question for

that's

that's

just like in the case with mao

which stalled in

the revolution does not come

with white gloves worn it comes torou the barrel of for god's not so that i'm not i'm not hearing anything from the ver useless platitudes

yeah what ok

again

these are this is what about the same so are you saying you want

what about bozs strategy

is successful and you can learn from it

because i can learn from my strategy

a i can learn from stalins strategy in the wisdom of like

stalins

like they have successful things they did that i can learn from

what about boz was successful you can learn from

night

okay

i don't think

bse

like

the situation he was puting he couldn't perform the same thing that mau stun and could have given his situation he was exiled by the bridgest matter yeah look dud

do you think

even with all the persecution against mau he still could fight

in the

in the jungle of it was there were a mountain maybe you would have been someone i' moving to son see dude

if it wasn't mao maybe it would have been some one else k i'm just we've gone through this a long time

yeah i know it history isn't made by people i maket for a fuck a loser aor was a loser he'd be a loser but he wasn't

so we have to ask the quest rather look up to and i hold i got saying communist slashed down got who revisit that our one teve twenty protest yeah

so's like a star game an example

ah

a guy named bagat singh

who farmers in the twenty twenty protest were looking back to because it was useful

what's useful a bout bos what can you learn from it what can you take away

what's why is he a thought leader

ask yourself that question why is he a thought leader

but bagan sing all he did was murder a cop

what the

because he probably well he probably wrote things

ok revolutionaries

okay even uh

fucking tinkers like spangler wrote sings did he achieve anything with thatts other than cultivating the not his ideology know

no you know i don't talking care about writers

they can write their soy i i don't lin action this is moust oflini socialism and action

this is giovanni gentila actual idealism

you don't care about learning and studying

not only care about

launching yourself into action

and failing immediately like bos did

why do't you sit at least if i launch myself into actiion i can learn from it

i can learn so what are you on line

ok what do you learn from boz then

we w i learned that india's conditions versus china's conditions

mouse apico what do you learn by bom with a twenty twenty three india right now what do you learn from bos how does he help you

that's it

y

for example india

um

rather than allying with

um russia like they've been doing for the past century

tactically although playing with the west at the same time they should be

working with the with the east

instead of japan in this case it would be china

because

they are geopolitically closer and have geopolitic to cobt

interest in having an india

that is working

ok bilaterally so and having trade ties ok

so

if you want india to work closer with china how are you gon to

deal with are you going to you know

exonerate bos publicly and not piss off the chinese and damage relations with them

what

give me proof that the current p r c would give us it abouts

bo's legacy

in china bs never thought and schina bs never genocide korean i knows i never gave so i think china is a little bit sensitive

when it comes to the legacy of imperial japan

because as you may not know here the there is this cult of japan in asia

that's centered in the japanese deep state and has some currency

a in south asia as well which is kind of just

trying to exonerate imperial japan

which is kind of geopolitically opposed

to china's interests as an ideology

okay but i don't want

that

here's the ting i do not want to exonerate japan

or the war crimes or the biological unit they had i am not defending these how can i fucking de fend things that are written on paper just like the

fucking holocaust i cannot i am just arguing

on the basis of pragmatism of what you can do in the meat immediate syts

bos could not achieve that successfully but it has been tried in places like

uh kepar

where ok at first

m

a right so you're saying your lesson from boz is to be pragmatic

yeh you need bos to learn that lesson

because people like

on or mout as soon as they started

sewing their true colurs and sewing that they will align with one block implicitly

they fucking got oussed they fucking got themselves sought

they got

two bullets in the back of the head

and was declared it i deal with this cult of losership that's jus like

i don't care about the callt to losers where's the success show me the success i'm not seeing any success

okay h

what success you want oka for example

eh mustafo kemal in turkey where about him

you think he's not successful way to go guerrilla warfare against s he was and then theky and then turkey joined nato and was hijacked

yeah because i of ismts of hismts you want to the truth you want to the truth the british let him win

british let him win that's the the british let him win so the did you know anything about the war supported the turks the soviets without the so try to say the british didn't put that much effort into trying to yeah they really really did not

yeah the british got what they wanted why

taking my they were focus on the russians

they already had constantinople

they had already

had it locked and key under the say i you know the did with it and didn't do anything with that they just let the turks take it

yeah be good

because at first it was promised to the russians and russa got fught

so they didn't have any fucking clue what to do with it's the could have given it to the they had n plan

they could have given it to the greeks and they actively chose not to

they were they could have given ite the actually could after the word green problem was the greeks i start where weres all right we're past the relevance of this we're ending this

debate with uh slvet i think i've tried to make my peace as much as i could

we don't want this jibber jabber this imperial japan ibber jabber ok

period

ah now let's go and um

let's bring up

but boss love

to come and stand to trial

foror the franco shit

ok

now this is the one everyone's been waiting for a lot of you guys have been scapegoating b bosslaw

but

i'm not trying to single him out but it is an example of the deviation ism going on

and the infrared community and the infrared service so let's go ahead and bring on bavosla

the resident

i'm sorry i just saw mean those

it

i have to show you guys the speeed

not to shit on b bosl but

but bostil does this thing

we're hold make an info graphic for franco putting some

quote

that seems to kind of be somewhat positive toward the soviets or whatever

and then they'll you it just like flame deliberation does by the way

and then someone in the server decided to

applied that logic to george soros and i just saw it passing by in the chat and i just

i thought it was really funny right

because honestly yeah this is like i it's true like you know like

this is

the equivalent of that in my eyes is just so fucking silly and annoying

and

it's

mmhmm

you know what i mean i'm sick oft the end for and by the way

no matter the outcome of this debate

i am unilaterally banning staning a much over of america when

ok i am

issuing right now so everyone can hear it

i am unilaterally

banning all

franco infro graphics

period

because they're fucking annoying me personally

they are spammed every day so often so consistently

and i'm banning them completely

because i'm sick of seeing them

i i was imagine being a random guy who joins the infrared server

interested in a

futuristic oriented marxism leninism

and you just see a bunch of fucking spam of franco's face and some fucking quote

that's not what we're here to be just because you're one guy

by sak you mayor

abse loudly despised the spanish republic

but being against franco is kind of in aaging there it's like you can't just be one guy

who likes franco wh you impose that to define the character of our entire community

do that selfish

we're not going to ban you for your opinion

but you're not allowed to try and hijack the whole infrared vision for this dumb lark

ok

so i'm unilaterally banning the infographics

forever

and no warnings

this is my last warning because i've already warned hi before about it

this my last one

no more franco info graphics

this is a marxist line in the server futuristic oriented

we don't need these fucking stupid flame of liberation infol graphics

period thank you g i appreciate you

long live us

thanks t x

but isn't t x also being accused of some shit or is that another guy

now t x has given me like a shit ton of money

so it's

you know

i don't know how much i can shit on him

because he's literally donated me like

three hundred dollars

but t x is also

isn't it t x union a gain in v c two and you're going to stand trial as well

you can't bribe me dude

you can't bribe me

ok

you can't bribe me

i

i'm incorruptible

i appreciate the money and i appreciate the support

but i'm not bribable dude i'm sorry

thank you for the money but

come on man

can't be bribed here

all right now we're going to have baboslo

get in

all right here it is

so what's this

sobo bos i've told you

yeah the franco stuff weeks ago and you're still doing it

and now i come to this we've come to a debate on thisens civil war or

ah yeah my thesis is that franco was a puppet of spain's landowner ruling class

and spain's royal family and their dynastic noble lineages and all that shit

and that's what franco was during the spanish civil war

and that moreover the classification of

franco's side as nationalist is a complete lie

there's nothing nationalistic about them in particular

they

were called that as a form of propaganda

even the

boogeois freemasons were bo wasi nationalists

so i'm not sure what the significance of that label is

i think franco was just a parochial

strong man

now do i think franco was a fascist

probably not

because fascism is ultimately about the waging wars of aggression

i

through the military industrial complex

however

ah

didn't spain

have a war

a colonial war

in the post war period

a you talking about the efney war

let me look it up

ok

can i tell you my main argument while you're doing that

wait wait wait i have to find this o

i

that was over

west sahera i believe in

the whole thing complicated if you ask any

spanish person or an indigenous person from

that region because

so the there's the the war yeah there was the western saharyea those two

the working i was there was a good chunic of indigenous i want to be their own nation and not be a part of morocco either

i in terms of westahara there was a lot of people who wanted to be like

their own nation be have their own as movement which who i see yeat and y the way so morocco also was waging a colonial war so it was kind of like

both sides were pretty morocco as you know is a fake puppet government

of the french the spanish and others

and i wholeheartedly support the saharawi people

to this day

fighting against it

so here's my argument

so firstly our main contention is that i believe that franco's faction in specific

was the best faction to possibly come out of stress of a war i believe that

out of the national or you caln call them rebels if you want

i believe that he was the best i

who else do you have in the national seaar of ladesma

he was the one who want to ally with the anarchists he all supported their program of extreme speculazation

closest thing to a spanish nazi in my opinion

um he had a few loyalists throughout

to spain

but overall

on

franco sidelined him and allowed for his

demise

otherly on you had

jose antonio

he wasn't wasn't as bad as ledsima but he had

a lot of qualms about industrialization

in terms of agreeing reform is better than ik we're wasting time here i don't ok so i'll snip tother part of les under the republicans

the republicans

in my opinion were

irredeemably flawed

in their regard to the

i'm going to speak of referencing so focused on the stalinist fact yt which is what infrared supports ok so we don't we don't care about the other guys we like the stalinists

okay so just on the sums okay

so jose diaz

i believe that he was flawed because

he back in i believe he is one of the

probably the best people within the spanish communist party

but even he backed up

so

the right of the regional separatists

to secede from spain and this would ultimately have led in my opinion

to the disintegration of spain as a country

well

because lein supported the same thing for the former russian empire

and had the soviet union unified it like never before

when all was said and done

so how is that an indictment on jose dias

well because i believe beaus the nationalists in spain were

much more

anti

communist explicitly like

especially among the basque and

especially at the time they were they wouldn't have saw i di with ose ids at all thing about the ukrainians and all the others

other regions in this look

that's a temporary thing

a the right one is alo nation thanks so much p j

that would have been rectified down the line somehow i'm sure there would have been some kind of conflict to ring that in

but yeah

hold on when you have when you have a monarchy

rather than a nation state

you're going to deal with this tribune i mean same thing happened with the russian empire right but it was unified like never before

i don't see how that's an indictment on those ideas

but i believe that

the overall

the right to secession would have

open them up to foreign game like foreign

plays had

spain's sought like unity as a nation that is what beyon what s would a have to russia though

whatll i think that

in spain's case they would be surrounded by

all these like western nations that could easily so was play

no rush ad the eastern bloc

surround well at the time yeah russia had very hostile powers

surrounding it on the e of the october revolution had the german empire

they have the austria hungarians they have the romanians

they had the checks the slovaks

no

they had a lot of people that were against them right near their borders

the polls

oh so even if i grant that

i

i would argue that so it's pretty irredeemable the fact that

that

p c e the spanish communist party

enshrined the idea that the

north africans were

of a beas still instinct no they didn't try that that was just dumb propaganda and war

that was no i'll post it right here

how is that enshrined i'm not denying that i'm not it's from the central committee manifesto i'm posting in the v c chat

go ahead

h so i'll read it out if you want no i'll read it out

okay

thad i

the ashes have

this is their manifesto

in the nine hundred thirty s they adopted it in the nine hundred thirty s i believe

their traitors has not been extinguished they open the gates of spain to the arab

sought to possess our fertile gardens

ok this is nationalist propaganda i mean ironically they're more nationalist to even

honestly even the little you know xenophobic and racist

then the franco guys

but this is not they're not enshrining this view they're just using it as nationalist propaganda

against

franco

and the rebels who yeah i mean you got to think about this think about the implication who's the real fucking nationalists here right

the spanish stalinist patriots

we're internal to the business of spain

franco can't rally the president so he's got to go to morocco and he's got to go get the arabs to fight for him

kind of nationalist is that

he's clearly not popular enough to rally an army of the spanish peasant

he's not some spanish mao

you know if you i wt youver i it if you're a real patriot

you're going to go down to the soil of your own people get and i'm not condemned d mansrdy both communists and anarchists because he saw them is a better option than liberal capitalists like this is like way that was before the war broke out quit taking things out of g twisting truth thk

you're not exempted from the line struggle you've got to get in v c due

ay you for the fifty voute

listen

becaus like furthermore like just in a fighting going on

among the

you know the the infrared right faction i guess i don't know

listen

oh n i i hate that guy

i ok it but that but we're not

i might bring them in v c and you guys can go at it just so we can observe what's going on

but

because i don't even know what's going on here right

but anyway

i would argue that the republic had no support in the countryside

maybeo maybe that's true maybe it's not true

but people like wliioning all the luck in but people like jose dias and the stalinizers

were precisely the only force

who would have been capable of rallying

the spanish countryside

and if you want to you want to you want my take on the spanish civil war

there was a it was a mistake

because the stalinists did not hastily

m do that fast enough they were stuck

in the soviet union's it own internal struggle going on at the same time

the great perses and other things

and the rap they would have to have rapidly kind of

accelerated the pace

by which they

really purged

the internal leftist enemy

before they could embark on a kind of

campaign to rally the that's what they wanted to do by the way

the solonists hated what the leftists were doing

they haved out the leftist were desecrating

the religious stuff

they hate they wanted to win the middle presidence of spain that was their goal

and the both the bouszoisie

wey i don't know that they copied the common turn doctrine had no independent basis

in spanish that may just like the communist in afghanistan but the main thing

that's not the main thing though the main problem

was that they were surrounded by two enemies on top they had the spanish liberal bousgoisie the liberal ones

who hated the falinists

because the songist wanted to empower the spanish middle presan

then on the other hand he had the ultra leftist in the lump in

anarchi is

who also hated

these stalinists for the same reason because they wanted to be the urban lump in

it criminals and you know scumbags

and they also hated how the communists

had this potential to unleash

the spanish peasant

right

and then on the other hand the rebels

who you seem to be defending here i hate to break you

the rebels were the pawns

of the spanish

landowning class of aristocratic nobility in the fucking monarchy

ts like the only authentic potentially authentic popular force at this time

that represents the spanish people

the spanish middle peasant the average ordinary joe in spain

is the stalinist

well you know the go back is the aart of the luk

inarkist for the strongest element like the non state leftist element the c n t

um engles wrote about it in

the bconis that work the

yeah you know but that was a problem

and

even if the land reform with francisco franco wasn't strong

it still did a good job of distributing the land

in go say you had everyone oingly did it because in frankos frankels land reform was giving peanuts to people to colonization efforts

instead of actually addressing the more fundamental problem of this entrenched elite

do you know this

yahll i'd have stanying back on the fact that

the stalinist were doing a good job at winning over the peasants i'd say that the that the nationalist did a better job at this

and haing the wages on time w as ies that they want have sees property and what right was and say then why did they have to import an army from morocco

if they were doing such a good job

h because it was just an added advantage they had

the rocking you need that advantage if they're going to be more popular at winning over the average president

then the communists

why do you got to import foreigners to fight for you

well i'd say that because for franco

had these strong ties with the troops and the

morocco he was the head of the army of af why couldn't he have strong time loyal

and mees they were ties they were the most effective troops in the spanish civil war like they were

this great yaters so he couldn't haveen they you so ok he couldn't have ties with his own people

so he you saw a lot of resers in the republicans so you can ignore that there are a lot of deserts

maybe

look i'm not here to say i'm not the one creating a cult of the spanish republicans

as much as i would have

given my lesson from that is the stalinists should have

more strongly asserted themselves

because after all who opened the gates for franco it

this is al someothing you're not neglecting mention

there was a coup against the negrin government

by the anarchist and the liberal bhoz was he combined

they overthrew

the spanish government because they said it was infiltrated by the stalin

stalinist and it was a soviet puppet

and they pretty much open the doors for franco to negotiate the terms of peace which they failed in doing

so that's also a part you're missing

you're missing the part how

the actual reason the republicans lost in the spanish civil war

is because the actual popular elements of the spanish civil war

which was the stalinist government

right

they were betrayed from within by the liberal whz was and the lump in ultra left scumbags and that's my lesson from the spanish civil war fought the leftist

never ally with the liberal whoz was he under any circumstances

and leftists are your enemy that's my lesson from the spanish civil war

but i'm not creating like a cult of something that failed

says

republicans failed as reason they failed

and i want to learn from that

but you're creating a cul to franco

who was just a bastard at that i mean he was just

a poppet

oh

the spanish

necrotic incestuous

ancient dynastic landowning classify a pushed back

arabs only consisted thirty thousand of franco's army

which was overall nine hundred fifty thousand

nine hundred thousand

strong overall so like

that's like ninety percent or whatever

spanish compared to a marginal

arab north african afa youre miss good point disingenuous to argue that on of these

spooky bloodsuckers

in spain

just you know it's just like um

it's not even the ancien regime it's some stuff after the napoleonic wars where all the

monarchies in europe were reshuffled

and the it's all a fraud by the way because

it turns out these monarchies have no legitimacy and no continuity before this

so it's like even book

it's a complete

you know

it's a game all the monarchies of europe all of them

but i would all agree that it was something it was

i on red we're right on that it was mains monolgy servative nature

on this point say you're right that it was due to his misled conservative nature

but

i would have to argue that

this doesn't negate the fact that

overall

this

franco led to a more independent

ain then because of his pragmatic policies

and the possibility of createing a rank not ae rk go had to give the s a base in spain

a base m one nine hundred sixty six he would ban nato aircraft from going over or to a can i youre stillve the u s a military base in return for giving him well that was a small concession

for iustrialation sll concession i think what is if he's going to make it basically like

not even useful to america by

cutting off the possibility of nato allied aircraft from no i to orll useful because it actually proved that when all said and done spain

would at least when there you're ignoring like the big fact the is lera program

a praer do is zero

ah which was developing an

path for nuclearization of spain

a nuclear arsenal

suspain could

not only be the eighth largest industrial power but would have nuclear arms

to be a major power to be the eighth largest industrial power in the cold war is not a huge achievement and what tering the clearly this thought as a threat because they

killed cara blanco who

createve the program

and then the successor to who is going to be the successor to franco

that killed tehador who

bro about the i'm not i'm not denying it's not i'm not denying t

i'm not denying of that i'm aware that i was a bit he was like bishmarck he was like a he was a develop mentalist

would you agree with that

no i don't think so i think franco belongs at best to the generation

oh

marginally

post war us allign strongmn

who the s then turned on later

just like chanin g shak just like park

park forgot it

i forgot his name

but there's all there's a lot of other people that fit the edge even s even pinoche

was similar to this right

eventually yeah he was totally appointed by the cia

then eventually they got rid of them ino

just deposed of them

there's a reason for that i get it

it has to do with the open society and globalism and democracy

but frankel couldn't protect vin

enough

sin spain was embargoed by the usa until the one nine hundred fifty s

that he gave this one concession

but he had to create a domestic sovereign ins that he got like was ans fors in if you look at the spanish national institute of enterprise

this was key in developing the spanish industry

to make it an independent country not just a country relying on no or trade ined u s loans

to develop its industry

i disagree i think it was due to the national enterprises ok to look up look ap hollk up the airs ok policy then look up how much loans spain took from the u s to industrialize

since you most the industrialization was done in the one nine hundred fifty s

in america only got done

with the embargo in the fifties so i your point is kind of moot there

why is it moot it got it's just

spain was still being embargoed in the fifties

but spain got its funding to industrialize itself from america

you're saying spain was already industrialized

no you may most more themert listen to the boring because that's not true

no most of industrialization was occurring in the fifties

with the help of u s loans

that was after

ok so you're saying spain even before the u s embargo

was rapidly industrializing correct much of the work out towards industrialization occurred a that's that's ambiguous

what share of the industrialization in particular

look can you can you give me a chart to look at beuse you always have these charts

and statistics and grabhs so let's see yeah i can pull up something

dit save somewhere

so i'm reading here that there was only an arms embargo there wasn't a complete embargo economically

so only armaments were embargoed during the period of the spanish civil war

what is this other embargo you're talking about

that that was an arms embargo dude why would you

am i missing something

well 'm final a check for you

no wait you just said the u s was embargoing spain

and wasn't funding them at all in the nineteen fifties

which kind of changes the facts here

thank you so much tax

i have a lot to say on franco and how he was the worst of the nationalists but i am at work at the moment however balbolla can debate me next

hold on hold on so so yah

o i'm i'm looking it up

so

thomen especial

acually had horrible relations with francisco franco

part in due part because the fact that truman was a

freemason

ok we didn't mean potatoes ok

so by the early nineteen fifties per capita gross domestic polluck was bared barely

forty percent of the average for west european countries

i

the growth of the black market food rationing and widespread deprivation gradual improvement began to take place

then after a decade the regime took its first faltering steps toward abandoning its pretensions to self sufficiency

and toward inaugurating a far reaching transformation of spain's retarded economic system

that's their word not mine

the pre civil war industrial production levels were regained in the early nineteenre fifties

which is pathetic by the way

though agricultural output remained below that level

until ninetheen fifty eight

so spain's agricultural output according to this source

remained

below its pre civil war levels until nine hundred fifty eight

but and then i

and then want a further impetus to economic liberalization came in nine teen fifty three

the signing of a mutual defense agreement the pack the madrid between the united states and spain

in return for permitting the establishment of a military base in spanish soil this is

according to the source september nine hundred fifty three

so you're getting the facts wrong here you said also i mean i do right here you have a chart which shows that

industrialization was picking up

already

starting in the the

mid on nine hundred forty s and picking up rapidly

by the nine hundred fifty even before that

what am i looking at here no this is almost hilarious what am i looking at here ok

so you've got a few lines

so this is a sector primero is the green one

what is this

it this one seems like it's shrinking

why is it shrinking

is that the cultural sector the secondary sector i imagine is the

industrial sector so we got a little loop to loopline

so here it is

it goes down to shit

and it even goes further down somehow

in the forties and fifties mainly its shit chit shit shit and that it only regains its previous

rate of growth

by nine hundred sixty when it was being funded by the u s banks

for direct investment into spain's industry

so

where is this narrative that most of the industrialization is going on in the nineteen fifties because even if that was true

they already gave america a military base in one nine hundred fifty three

more than one billion dollars in economic assistance which is a lot of fucking money at that time

flowed into spain during the remainder of the decade

so between fifty three and fifty eight the u s was giving them huge loans

by the government by the way we're not even talking about the private sector right now

spain's gross national product rose by about five per cent a year

not incredibly impressive

for example stalin's industrialization we're talking about ten iimth grates primary models are ma china we're talking aout ten percent growth rates that aboutus i guess you didn't want to help o us loans by the way and i was a en picking up before

the usaid so

primary sector would be agriculture

a you have that

so that was not great but you have to admit how the industrialization was picking up

years before the usad

spain o ar do marga listen listen h

by nineteen fifty

it was starting to get

slightly close to dremer withdrew the american ambassador uting me

it was getting to the rate of growth

that that spain was at before the civil war

which it did not get to until nine hundred sixty

that's not impressive

ok

spain under franco was a shit hoole

and that's a fact

but the gross national product a of the puzzlei percent agricultural thank you so much a real leader realort national rel agriculture it was a zacgword country under franco

from nine hundred fifty one to nine hundred fifty six

the i this was the number of people employed increasing it wasn't relating to the growth

this is the number of people employed in the sector so it showed there was a ok then you gainer then you rit me right after then you gave me a meaningless

grass

give me so knows how he recovered the employment

no that's no that's not what we were asking we were asking for the rate of growth of the economic sectors

you gave me a you lied about what you just gave me right now

i'm starting to notice some dishonest tactics from you but i didn't play ideah sy whators the was this shit about the one nine hundred fifty s which was completely like n know then it was you bullshit hold on then you then you like to me

you youre you your into graphics are a lie it's all lie you fucking said the u s had an embargo on spain no it didn't it was an arms embargo you saw u s didn't invest in spain until the nine hundred sixty s not true they gave him a one billion dollars throughout the nine hundred fifty s i think most of spains industrialization occurred in the nine hundred fifti s even if that was true they were autarchic and self sufficient they had full foreign capital had full access

to spain

during all these periods

private capital had full access to spain

from international capital during these periods but the u s government to add insult to injury gave him a billion fucking dollars

in addition to that

so stalin in maw that'm got to tell you why franco will never be

one of the icons of the infrared movement

because stalin and mao were cut off from all international capital ten percent growth growth rates in industrialization

per year cut off from the whole fucking world

spain backward shitthole spain

gets one billion dollars in assistance which is a huge lot of fucking money at this time in the nineteen fifties

plus access to internet opital door us nwaten you call us and direct and direct private foreign andort in ct and

and they have a measly five percent rod growth rate a year source source the u s capital and

so i can look at it

which u s capital

your claim about u s capital the billions of u s dollars can you source it

the one billion it's on stream right now the one billion dollars

that

the united states gave

to spain in economic assistance

and then i sa

the recovery with the employment was done without the any marshal aid for spain

the i don't care about i don't care about spain's employment

franco could employ spaniards

to grow grab a shovel and dig shit

i don't care

i care about i care about ecomic show me the economic growth show me the industrialization more plant delayed so it was delayed

so he was able to

accomplish a recovery before the

basically his version of the marshall plan a recovery hold on

spain was ab hon han

this is pretty rich

spain was able to recover

from before the spanish civil war

before the u s economic assistance direct

assistance

by the u s government

what about hod i'm worry a the

what about foreign investment

from private capital

i'm looking up

it's not impressive by the way to take

fifteen years to recover to where you were before

a civil war when you're not cut off from the entire fuccon world

like the soviets were

by the way

look the backwardness of agriculture in the land tenure system all hallmarks

of keeping intact a parasite class of agricultural landowners

and aristocrats

sitting and eating cheese on their extravagant mansions with their

millions of acres of useless fucking land they're not even putting to work productively

this is what happens when stalinists don't take over

this is exactly why franco

is a fraud and he'll never ever be up there in heaven with soalin and mound

farm productivity was low

a lot of tourists

exports lagged

high domestic demand

institutional restraints on foreign trade

franco finally oted in savor of a group of neo liberals barl you were calling me a usano but you were walking out la now

so a debate took place within the regime over strategies for extracting the country from its economic impasse

and franco opted in favor of a group of neo liberals

the group included bankers industrial executives some academic economists

and members of the semi secret roman catholic lay organization oppas day

so to translate that

only until spain

opened up

did it make any progress in the economy

what makes its economy sovereign

in particular then

right

during thee nine hundred fifty seven to fifty nine period known as the prestabilization years

i

lot of reforms for foreign private capital

a drastic remedies are required in spain as lace in the rest of europe

in the process of liberalizing trade among their members these organizations found it difficult to establish economic relations

uh okay

spain became an associate member of the

organization for european economic cooperation

the o e c d

in sixty one

and every developed country in the non comommunist world had this spain joined the i m f and the world bank

in nine hundred fifty nine

this is sovereign

industrial development i'm still waiting for how o

these bodies immediately became involved in helping spain to abandon their autarchical trade practices

that it brought its reserves to such low levels

spain was influenced by france

so this is a classic textbook marshall plan

semiclony pretty much

youur royd semiclony

and then eventually

you know

yeah i agree with the american second phase of neoliberalism or whatever

they kind of cut their loose ends and win against all the strong men they previously supported

a again shank i shek park

see same i'm not denying

by the way that

the cia wasn't a huge fan of franco

because he wasn't fully in line right

but

that doesn't mean franco is a model to cheer for

because even though he wasn't fully in line with u s imperialism

he still

was responsible for the backwardness and stagnation

of his country because

franco doesn't need to be a puppet of u s imperialism when he's a puppet of spain's own parasitical

and ancient dynastic

ruling classes and landowners

so that's a fucking problem

right

now i'm not going to be here and start you know all franco was the worst guy ever ok is that

you're doing the opposite in the server you're doing the opposite

where you're constantly constantly constantly schilling for franco

and it's

at this point it's making our server look like shit

because it's in direct contrast with our vision

just because franco

wasn't necessarily a fascist

doesn't make him a fucking icon and model

were you going to put him in front of an infrared glow why would you do that

oh i never did that actually well it's someone's doing that

yes someone did that but i would never do it

so thank you oh that's a lot of the industrialization

later on did a to do is

usaid and this however actor how would you explain ho l right after here be came the franco system got toppled

involved in the

um cia

whatever they started in the industrializing in the

p e government socialist party government because you a you ignore the b i just said imergy starl

you ignored what i just said

in the second phase or in the phase of us neo liberalism

they began to dismantle

some of their pillars of the marshall plan system

so they wanted to do that to france may sixty eight in france

was cia shity they didn't want to gll they started getting tired of the gll

they started going against the south korean dictator park whatever

they started cutting all their loose ends and yes trying to de industrialize

all of these former

kind of semi colonies of the u s marshall plan system

so i'm not denying that they had it out for franco at the later years and all this shit and they assassinated people and that

fraends lk

fran is spain's liberal democracy was ushered in by

the cia and they did ind the industrialized spain i'm not denying that i'm just saying

spain's

the fact that the u s could deindustrialize spain

is because it's the u s which pretty much industrialized it in the first place

spain never

developed a sovereign

real sovereign kind of

economic

polarity like

the chinaes and the russians did

they never beg to recognize that instead of receiving the marshall aid funds just

with the usa able to demand complete

like a baskets ot of control

hod thk it was able togothate that

economic aid on his own terms yeah that was the same with the gall in france ok

so that's what i'm i'm trying to say he's like a b a

the goll type figure that he is like a digll like figure but why why would there be there's no one who's shilling did goll infoll graphics

in the server

well it's mostly just to counter the idea that um

you know he's like this big bad

nobody cares about franko that's the problem

it's not that he's there's a campaign to say oh franco's

worse than hitler

it's just that why are you shilling him so persistently and so fucking often

in the server

that's the problem

now now that i've been able to get my point across to the

community that he's a degal type figure

ok which many people continued to say he was this

kind of hit the right

you know that type of stuff no he was all beer he was more like to gall

but he was not based according to the infrared official guiding

ideology our live

our line is theb all ok our line isn ideas we don't we don't show for good tog all either right

the goll was the gall

we support the stalinist

golden center the stalinist line

nobody is going to be a full patriot for their country

unless they go down to the soil of their people and from scratch

build completely new civil and political economic institutions

like mal did

not

shilling for the landowners

not in dugal's case shilling for the french

a colonial ruling class in frances vestigial colonial system

even if he's against it

unipolarity it's like he's doing it as a reactionary

and we're not necessarily saying he's a bad guy for that

we're just saying he was doomed to the dustbin of history it was a complete vain struggle

that's also our line when it comes to

franco

i so you'd like recognize that

he

wasn't a total like vassal state more similar to go to go i think yeah rection some much further

it's definitely not true that spain

was fully controlled

by the u s we all know that right

but

neither was france and

that's why the neo liberalism thing happened

because that one

pretty much

created the full control of the global system

but that doesn't mean we're going to sit here and die on the hill of these

fig people who couldn't even stop

that from happening

beakerus no i

i think we've pretty much settled it i don't think we're going to agree on like the

other stuff we must we re really banning

the franco infro graphics

period

and

the franco shit is concluded

there's no reason for this to be shitting up the server

i don't want to go take a shit

and then open up my my the server and go to general chat and see shit about frank anymore

ok so we're done by it now

deal

ok

oh also shout out to king me yah

the ok

n

who who else

what what is your business who are you

you're a new guy i dot you have a leaf next to your name i don't even know what

you're doing here

i

that's that

ok we had two people

kind of a

not

ideal enough showing

right

we're done with the jibber jabber

we're done with the jibber jabber

we're done with the jibber jabber

ok

thank you carlo appreciate you for the tourny

thank you so much carl appreciate that

a

there's something you are missing that babal is not mentioning

the left in spain rejected religion and tradition of their people which caused franco to raise

emil needs to uphold those things i agree with you

i agree with you fully

stalin rehbuild the orthodox church

so i agree with you i'm not

against that i fully agree with you carlo

i am not here to uncritically be like yah they didn't yah but it's like who am i on the side with of course i'm on the side

with the popular spanish

like i support the french revolutionaries i support robesphear

so guys

i'm waking up at like seven a m now

and tomorrow i'm going to promise you a mega mega stream

ok

tomorrow we're doing the patron on q and a

because wednesday is the ben bergess debate

yeah that's wednesday

so tomorrow i want to do a massive massive stream

to do the patri on q and a

and some gameplay

for atoma card which i want to continue my atoma card gameplay

but m

that concludes today's

infrared rumble and there wasn't a big showing i'm not going to lie there was not a big showing

there is not a big showing

ok

so yeah

what

it was enough

ok

time do i sdream

about

you know

about

four p m tomorrow how about that what do we do a four p m stream

want to be one of four p m string tomorrow

because i can do one

i can make that happen

no problem

i can make it happen a four p m stream tomorrow

is not hard

in fact i could have done a four pm stream today i just

didn't think people would be awaye

you guys want it will do it

we'll do it

four p m stream

i got to wake up early then right

i got to have dinner and then i gota go to sleep

beautiful stream guys

patron q tomorws to get your questions in for tomorrow

going to be the ultimate patron q and a

someone's in show que

what is the sky

i don't care

too bad he's too early

this guy joined three days ago he's not

t a significant enough

ok

our guys

great stream

iill see you guys tomorrow

bye bye