Infrared has discussion with Anti-Brexit Scotsman

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okay so first things first

that we gotta talk about so

you have an issue with mr george

galloway

yeah yeah dude okay what's your issue

so i think he's made a few problematic

positions

uh over the years even though he's been

very good on some things

on other things there's a lot to

question him about

so i think problematic figure

so which which why are you anti-brexit

well because brexit in the past 10 years

has been about

uh being racist more or less you're

blaming

all the problems on immigration from

from europe

immigration from outside of europe and

that's not the right way to be brexit

maybe you can be against the eu

as they were in the 70s due to economic

reasons due to the institution that is

the european union

but in the past 10 years it's not been

that case it's the the discussion hasn't

been about

uh those things right so being brexit

in the past 10 years isn't correct okay

so the the uk joined the eu

and since it's joined the eu something

called de-industrialization happened

which means people lost the jobs that

used to guarantee them basic dignity and

basic livelihood

so it seems to me that we can't discount

the thing about the economics because

uh it's just like the trump situation

um i'll admit that racial uh

rhetoric or anti-immigrant rhetoric has

played a huge part in the cultural

expression of this but is that really

what is

fundamental about people who wanted

brexit

and the sentiment or even

the sentiment of the population of the

uk that were pro-brexit

is it primarily that they're

anti-immigrant racist

or is it because their fundamental way

of life

has been undermined since the uk

joined the eu and the uk's national

industry was completely decimated

well like as someone that lives in the

uk you don't really see

the debate consisting anything about uh

even the intentions of the

tory party or the the tory like faction

within the party

that is pushing for brexit you haven't

seen like a change to

sort of change the air like the uk

economy to that way like you don't see

that all you see is talk about

cutting down on immigration making it

harder for people to come just cause

huge problems

and their nhs and huge problems and like

filling other important sectors

in the economy and you haven't seen any

positive change now you can say

maybe in the long term this will come to

our benefit because we're no longer part

of the eu

but the tory party is more popular than

ever

and brexit has only helped strengthen

the tory party and and even

rather than just strengthening the tory

party it's moved every single sort of

voter

to the right and that's i can't see how

that's a good position to hold

well don't you think that the underlying

reason for something can differ from the

overt expression

meaning just because people aren't

debating about this doesn't mean it's

not the actual real reason

people some don't know how to directly

talk about the real reason because it's

so fundamental

uh and obviously so com complicated to

be able to understand consciously but

that doesn't mean it's not the

underlying

fundamentally material reason for why

the population of the uk is so disposed

to anti-immigration

sentiment my view is that there uh they

associate

immigration with the transformations

that have occurred from a more broader

perspective

um that have that are fundamentally

incompatible with

a dignified human life um

that's true so so you're saying

immigration that has been used as a

scapegoat for other reasons

yeah that's what i think that's what i

think i think they're harping on

immigration because they don't know how

to actually

articulate their real interests

um to me jeremy corbyn

got close to articulating those

interests in the beginning

right when he talked about reviving the

uk's

national and sovereign industry but

obviously brexit

uh was the end of his campaign but

let me but i'll just put it like this

the uk's membership in the eu

is not compatible with the revival of

the uk's uh national industry

the uk the eu you know the problems with

the institution of the eu

it's not politically accountable it's

completely uh undemocratic it has no

regard for the sovereignty

of the constituent nations within it

and one of the things that i like to

emphasize

is it's not even so much whether we like

the eu or not you have to regard

something like brexit actually as an

inevitability the uk people are fed up

the establishment isn't able to contain

their discontent because the source of

their discontent is not because

they're too ignorant or they're too

prejudiced it's because of real

underlying material reasons

so to me anyone

who comes from a left-wing an

authentically socialist or left-wing

position

if they are opposing brexit they're

basically digging their own grave

i think look we've got a like you're

saying

okay like uh the eu is incompatible with

with what we want and that's correct

and they agree with that and i did see

people on the left that

that articulated let's say a non-racist

uh brexit movement and if you want to

look at up about it it's called the full

uh brexit and and and that's good and i

agree with that but what i'm trying to

say

is when we're talking about the impact

that we'll have on society and

and if you look at where the uk has been

going for the past

10 years you can't say that being

pro-brexit in this current environment

is what is good like for people

especially me

as an immigrant and as ethnic minority

in the uk i don't see how

it's a good position to be in when you

know

britain is just becoming more and more

racist and it's not

even even if uh you'd say that the

working class are the people sort of

that are proving a discontent with the

eu at the end of the day

it's a very middle-class sort of brexit

that we're having it's all the

rich people that are trying to say that

we don't want sort of immigrants coming

here and taking

so the jobs we want to have our own

economic security and that's what

that's the sort of policies that you're

seeing are being adhered to they're not

we're not seeing a change in

economic policy towards something that

would benefit people it's just becoming

worse and worse

as an environment in the uk well i don't

deny that the uk environment might be

getting worse and i'm not even

saying that brexit is good or bad i'm

saying it's

being refusing to be against brexit and

even

putting your own spin on brexit is the

starting point for any progressive

forces in the uk

if you don't begin from there you

there's literally nothing else you can

do you can't side with the labor party

you can't side with the establishment

because they don't have the support of

the majority of the the uk's people

and bigotry and anti-immigrant sentiment

may be widespread

in the uk among the uk's people but

you cannot find ref sorry there's a

little bug

you cannot find refuge in the uk's

establishment as a source of protection

for immigrants

the only chance immigrants have

within the uk for a better future

is allying themselves on a from scratch

without the

institutions of the status quo without

the establishment from scratch

some kind of new relationship with

uh the uk's uh non-immigrant people

who are also the source of this kind of

racism

if the material interests of the uk's

population can be correctly articulated

then i have no doubt that then

a real uh a

real new dialogue between immigrants and

the native population

can be worked out and which will address

a lot of the racism and prejudice and

bigotry

it's not inevitable that's going to

happen but let's begin

beginning from the establishment is a

non-starter it's only going to aggravate

the problem

that's what people like galloway did

though that's what that's what my

problem is with someone like halloween

is that

he aligned himself with with the

mainstream sort of sort of

like momentum of being brexit

not not speaking and like not seeming to

care about the implications that i would

have

and like that's the problem you're not

starting sort of

then you're not articulating a new

discourse of why brexit is good

you're just saying okay whatever the

outcomes are by b

just because this is a and i agree with

i'm going to put myself in on that camp

and that's not the way to go about it

but the the issue is that those

implications are going to be realized

whether or not you sober up to this new

reality this is the will of the uk's the

majority of the uk's people

and siding with the uk's status quo

where it's establishment

is not going to solve the problem it's

going to

only aggravate it so

articulating independently a brexit

position

is the only path uh progressive forces

within the uk and people like galloway

have

there's no other alternative but that's

not what galway has done do you

acknowledge that or not

what do you mean that's not what he's

done that's that's not the way that he

went about

sort of being pro brexit like i think i

think it is

i think galloway was very firm as far as

leaf party he aligned himself with the

leaf party

so the mainstream sort of right-wing

faction that was in the tories and

and ukip is uk backing and then he even

told people to vote for tories

so that's very problematic because what

you're saying is

that what they're doing even though you

might think it's not

you might think it's not okay you're

saying it's not that problematic what

they're doing

you're sort of mixing it's all the good

and the bad you're blurring the lines

well i don't i don't think there was an

alternative to galloway's position

so you think that we should tell people

to vote tori and make things worse in

the short term

by the long term hope that something

goes if

well it's not that he tells people to

vote for tori it's that he wants to

defend

the will of the people of the uk

who decided that they wanted to leave

the european union

now there's forces that want to go

against that

popular sovereignty and that is a very

slippery slope

as you can imagine if they can go

against the will of the people

in one regard what what kind of

precedent does that set for a so-called

democratic country

that's not what i'm arguing here i agree

that if the people have

decided on something then yeah of course

this is their sovereign right to

what i'm trying to say is that the

people might have decided on something

that we think is good

but they decided on it for the wrong

reasons that doesn't mean that means

okay

there might be something good that we

agree with but we're not it's not going

to be a good outcome for us because

what they're voting for and the and the

people that they're voting for

they're going to have the next 10 15

years to in

like instate something that we really

don't want and we really don't want

a racist britain like that's not

something that we want we

britain now is working on this story

britain is now working on ties

establishing ties with with the likes of

america and the likes of australia like

how i don't see how that is

the better alternative to what we had

before

and and nor is it sort of creating the

the sort of the the environment for us

to start

articulating in new positions just

making everyone pushing them to the

right

accepting these sort of uh positions

such as oh immigration is not the best

it's not it's not it's not good for the

country uh accepting these different

tendencies and that's what

that's what the political spectrum looks

like in the uk even

talking about like economics the way

that jeremy corbyn did didn't work

because people

were so concerned with with brexit that

they didn't care about the economic

positions and different sort of

uh policies that jeremy corbyn and

and the other guy was named there's two

things

yeah there's two things i agree with

that that's the the rate things are

going at now the question is

is that inevitable i see galloway as

someone who doesn't

who's not whose view isn't that it's

inevitable he's trying to build his own

political movement and that's what he's

doing the second thing is that um

with regard to the significance of the

economic possible that's exactly where

jeremy corbyn went wrong

he never are he never articulated or

expressed

the real authentic connection between

the 2015

corbin of reviving the uk's national

industry

with a pro-brexit position a solid broke

pro-brags

as you said people don't really care

that much about the details they care

about brexit

if corbyn articulated a pro-brexit

position

people would not have cared so much

about the fact that

corbyn's against racism corbyn's

against the kind of bigotry that's not

what people find essential or

uh not so they're there you would have

had an opportunity to have a brexit that

would not

lead to the outcome that it has led to

now

you didn't realize that just because

corbin like

for corbin to be pro brexit he he can't

just say

like it's very difficult in the uk

climate political climate to say

i i know but the reason for that

the reason for that though is that

corbin's constituents

were these what we call the professional

managerial left

they were the city left who don't

represent the people

so it's the problem was the people who

were leading corbyn's campaign not the

masses on the ground who were decisive

for his victory

it was the people who were defining

corbyn's movement culturally who were a

tiny minority who were

an elite compared to the majority of the

uh the uk's people

so he didn't do enough to purge those

elements out from his party and have

an authentic populist uh rank and file

that is there's a like that's a fair

critique of corbin and that's

probably the difficulty of working

within labour parties that you're not

never going to have full control over

the party

in a way that your current you can state

a sort of a pure

sort of political program but i think if

corbyn was more of a populist

he could have drawn the support of the

uk's people and they would have been

able to drown out

the labor the labor status quo gets

a lot of its power from the fact that

it's confined to a specific

type of person uh the more privileged

type of elitist type of people in the

cities

um if corbyn made an appeal to the

people

i think he could have taken control of

the labour party which with much more

power and could have used this power

to um to leverage against them i know

that it's not

entirely democratic and that there's

institutional power

in the labor party that can't be

contested just based on popularity alone

but it sure as hell could be a huge

source of pressure to put on them

uh i think again um like the thing with

corbin

is like you said the institutional sort

of limitations on the labour party

they'll he'll never be able to take i

think the sort of the populist

like angle i don't think it would be

that much successful i think

um he's already like what he tried to do

appealing to the people in the uk is is

very difficult because

you can't appeal you when you appeal to

them you have to speak something that

resonates with them and what resonates

with

with a lot most of the people that were

pro-brexit is not sort of left-wing

economic

uh political it could be

it's right-wing racism no but but that's

just because the leftists

wrote those people off if leftists

articulated a left-wing populism

why couldn't leftists win why wouldn't

those people be more drawn to

something that actually represents their

real economic interests in the first

place

i think for labor to be a true

working-class party would be much more

appealing

i don't think people are inherently

racist or bigoted i think

racism and bigotry is a type of

signifier if you will

that just allows people to distinguish

themselves from

their class people who are of other

classes

like for example liberal or we call

liberals in america more kind of

enlightened and progressive people they

hate those people because they're

elitist so

oftentimes racism becomes popular

because it's a way

to distinguish these working-class

people

from the elites now obviously it's not a

good way in my view but

it's not because they're inherently

racist or inherently uh bigoted i don't

think that

no it's not about that it's that the

political climate at that time

was not what that like i think it needs

a lot of grassroots effort and a lot of

sort of

structures built in the community for

you to be able to

resonate with people in the way that we

want right

i think i think a left-wing populist

position was very

possible for corbyn at the time um when

the decisive

time came to make a decision about

brexit i think corbin should have

immediately

leaned with the pro-brexit crowd because

it's all about

class who is the class base of the

people who are pro remain were they the

english working class they weren't

well if corbin is a champion of the

working class

and old labor which is what he

which is what he fashioned himself as

from the very beginning he should have

taken the pro-brexit position

i think that's that's taking a lot of

the the context out of what the uk was

really

like to to take a pro brexit position

would have

damaged colgan a lot more and i think it

would have damaged him in a few ways

i'll name them right

would have damaged him insofar as he's

popular among

metropolitan leftists rights you know

privileged more

urban or socialized leftists right those

type of

educated people and those people it

would have gotten him in trouble from

the media but my view is that

all those things are downstream from the

people they're

the only reason these leftists even

exist

is because ultimately everything is

produced

for everything is downstream from the

people so if program

if corbin took a populistic position

that would have been a source of power

for uh alternative cultural

and media whatever forces to help him

against those people who would have uh

went after him and and but the worst

thing of all is that

the climate was already bad for corbin

they were already

you know they did they did everything

they could to destroy corbin already i

mean

him doing this wouldn't have made all

the difference in the world

i don't think it would have made a

difference at all to be to be honest

i don't think it would have well that's

what i'm trying to say is that

even if he had i don't think he would

have benefited i think

the program you you would have to be on

to articulate a pro-brexit that would

resonate enough with people in the uk in

2015

and onwards is going to be a sort of a

very right-wing

brexit and not something why you might

be able to bring in left-wing

economics into it but at the end of the

day what resonates with people

is what the the tories are saying right

now and

that would that would be the only way

but why why did it happen

why would it have to be inherently right

wing why

couldn't it be a left you know there is

such a thing as a left-wing populism you

know

why couldn't you you can i'm saying it

won't be popular it won't resonate with

the people because that's

not the people i'm looking for that's

what they're looking for they're looking

for a very specific

understanding of the problems but how do

you know

what if that understanding is the only

one that's been made available to them

well yeah that's that's a problem but

then you would

like for that problem to be like solve

you'd have to go back a lot of years and

you can't just say

i'll start today to articulate any

problem when the election is next year

like that's not how you would see

success and i don't i don't

see how you would have to take a right

wing position

just because for years there has been a

right-wing sentiment

i mean uh i don't see why that's

relevant i think that

i think i think people take sides based

on antagonisms and contradictions

if corbyn were to appeal to the uk's

people

he would have initiated a conflict with

the media with all those other people

similar to the one he already was

embroiled in except

in the one he was embroiled in he had no

popular support

and he didn't even make an attempt to

reach out to the necessary base that he

could have rallied behind

to combat the establishment that was

going after him

uh if they witnessed that conflict

people would start taking sides it's all

about these

conflicts and these antagonisms and

these contradictions

that's what all of this rhetoric is

really about the whole thing about

racism

isn't just that people are racist and

they're con they're

convinced racist it's gonna take years

and years to convince them otherwise

it's that they do racist [ __ ] the media

reacts and then people start to take a

side

and yeah it's about narratives people

start to take a side

uh based on the antagonism so corbin

could have began and initiated a new

antagonism and that

that being that being uh

a pro-national sovereignty uh

pro-national industry old labor

position which can be a little bit

culturally conservative

that really resonates with the

sentiments of

the uk's working classes as opposed to

the cities now there's an example of

this

that's very recent in peru castillo won

precisely on that basis so i don't see

why it would have been

impossible for corbin to pursue

precisely that because

if you remember corbin had pretty good

prospects starting out in 20 2015. he

had a very powerful position

and and people were pretty open to

corbyn because the old labor position

you have to remember old labor is a very

powerful position to take in the uk

because

the uk's working classes were

historically aligned with labor so

there's a tradition there

right so someone who's bringing back old

labor is really going to resonate with

people

yeah and i agree with that but i think

that there was a few points you said i'm

trying to remember them now

uh the thing is i don't know the

castillo context too much but

from the uk context i just don't think

that

it would have been that quick of a

position to articulate in the timeline

i think if you look at corbin's popular

popularity

the only reason it got worse and worse

for him was because of

of brexit and yeah but but that's

because he didn't take a decisive stance

on brexit when the time

came to he kind of flip-flopped because

he was afraid of

his current main constituents which were

not the working class

but he didn't recognize that all power

comes from the people it doesn't come

from

the people who appear to be behind you

it comes from

the people it doesn't come from what the

media is telling you

about reality it comes from the actual

reality he he underestimated that so

profoundly

uh and he paid a very dear price for it

what do you think about the the scottish

referendum then

um which

the the one that already happened or the

proposed new one

i think like both the idea of scottish

independence

from my understanding scottish

independence was not

led by the actual national base of

scotland

but by the liberal elites of scotland

who

saw scotland as a way out of the brexit

conundrum

scotland was basically the scottish

independence movement was

basically uh led by the remainers

in scotland and it was a form of trying

to resist

um brexit

that's the extent of my understanding

from what i've been told by people

from scotland sculpture i think has been

like here

not much longer than no no i know i know

in general yes there's a real

scottish independence reality

um oh you know what you're right the

first renderer okay i got it wrong

the first referendum for scottish

independence

was different from the calls to renew

the

referendum again the first one was not

related to brexit

and i don't know too much about that one

i think at the time i was pro

scottish independent at the time

especially for geopolitical reasons

um so you're saying at the time so right

you're not the meaning of scottish

independence after

brexit changed when people called for a

new referendum

uh the meaning changed but then you

think that the same way you're arguing

that brexit

can have a good or like a material

interest of brexit

can be met through brexit no matter what

the meaning of it is

uh scottish independence can be

understood the same way no

no i agree i think i definitely am for

scottish

independence but we have to

contextualize the meaning of scottish

independence

after brexit but in general

like in general i think brexit provides

an opportunity for a type of national

awakening for many of

the uk's constituents

through a scottish independence followed

by uh not an irish reunion

yeah of course so that means

that is the is the beginning of a domino

effect

possible domino effect where first

brexit then

scotland can leave the uk then ireland

can leave

and then maybe they can

renegotiate some kind of union on a free

and equal basis maybe i don't know

but as it stood with the eu there's no

chance

um in my view

well the way i see it is if we're

looking at the long term

uh having a being a pro scottish

independence now

is is going to result in what we're

looking for much quicker

than the brexit and the type of but i

don't think it's going to happen i

agree with galloway if you hold another

scottish referendum now

they're gonna strike it down uh

so it's just a distraction and a waste

of time

do you think the people strike it now i

think this if there was a scottish

referendum i think they would

they would not vote to leave yeah i

think there's a

much more uh popularity with scottish

two reasons one was already very close

before brexit but two

scotland was very pro staying in the eu

70

of scottish voted to stay in the eu so i

think that would have pushed any sort of

uncertainty in that away so i think

a scottish independence soon is

definitely something that we should look

for

and uh it's very likely that

it will pass and that's why the uk is

very

the story party especially is very keen

to not make sure

to give any opportunity to that

happening um

i i don't know i would have to look at

like polling data and

uh and stuff

more scots voted for leave then voted

for snp that's what someone is telling

me right now

um so scott

much bigger distance and that's what the

smp is campaigning on

so 30 compared to 70

i i don't know i don't know uh i

genuinely don't know but regardless

galloway is thinks it's a waste of time

because he

as a scottish person himself doesn't

believe the scottish people want to

leave right now

but but i don't think we should take

everything from galloway that's what

that's

all i was trying to say i'm saying but

that's the basis of his opposition to

scottish independence if galloway

found out that the overwhelming majority

of uh

scottish people want to leave maybe his

view would differ but

the issue is is that it the the

referendum already happened so

what basis is there for doing another

referendum

the basis that people want it like it's

like

but they already had a referendum

the recent national election in scotland

happened two months ago

and the main parties that campaigned for

a second

referendum were voted in by like a

majority

the greens and the smp were the ones

that got the most seats and their their

main thing was

ndrf2 having a second referendum so that

means people

will vote on that platform i think

people do want it

uh it's clear that uh this is what peop

this is what many people at least want

to happen is that they want a second

referendum

i don't think it's fair to to give a gun

away if scotland wants a referendum

i'm not going to get in the way of it

and i doubt galloway has the ability to

get away get in the way with it so i

don't see what the issue is if a

referendum is inevitable i'm not going

to be

shedding tears over it the issue is uh

someone like galloway is given such high

regard when i think

he has very questionable decisions

how how has how has his decision gotten

in the way of the scottish peoples

uh i'm getting in the way it's like it's

it confuses things right

when we when we say that galloway has

has has clearly good policies but then

he goes

and tells people to vote for tory and he

goes and

stands against scottish independence

doesn't that make us think well

if we know that you're so good in

concerns uh stances then

what does that mean for these other

stances it's

i don't know what you mean i think uh

galloway there's different things

going on right i don't think galloway is

focusing the majority of his effort or

even a significant part of his efforts

against scottish independence you know

his significant parts effort is getting

back into

uh the british parliament which he

failed at

last week but

so i don't i'm not too up to date did

didn't did galloway join the labor party

no you he ran with the workers party and

he lost a

a by-election which is an election for

1c in parliament

didn't you rejoin the labour party he

didn't rejoin the language party now

okay okay no he he was in the labor

party but he got kicked out

2006. yeah okay gotcha yeah

but he's done a lot of weird things and

i think people hold him in high regard

for certain stances which may

be good and we may agree with but in

other stances he sort of

falls short and i think we shouldn't

hold someone like him but which stance

do you think he falls short on so the

ones that i've we've talked about

one including brexit uh the one

including the scottish independence

and uh also as an iraqi his stance in

the 90s when he was very

pro saddam hussein i don't think he was

pro-saddam

i think he was anti-intervention i think

this is a rewriting of his record

so from the videos that i've watched

when he walks in and calls him your

excellency and you know

well this is a formality he's meeting

with the head of state

there's ways to go about being uh

anti-sort of

anti-war in iraq i think the the

position i held

towards saddam hussein is and this

is a problem of many leftists they don't

know what was the dumb stuff it's a

false it seems like a falsification by

the media i've never

galloway has completely denied ever

being uh quote-unquote pro-saddam he has

been

against war in iraq

i mean that's a good position but the

record's very clear

i i don't think so because when he he's

he when he goes and meets with with

saddam hussein and his sons

and he and he so do you know why he met

with uh

saddam and

he met with them to get to the bottom of

uh

all of the allegations i mean yeah he

was in front of where

he was in front of the us supreme court

wasn't from a front of congress and he

was uh

he he told the story he went and met

with

saddam there's a video of him meeting

him you know have you seen that

yeah i know they met but why did they

meet did they meet to just be friends

no i don't know what he meant he met

with

uh saddam to get the record straight

i just want to verify something i'm not

a liberal um

as an iraqi have well give me one moment

i i have to wash my hands after i ate

give me one moment all right i'll just

talk to your child

all right i'm not a liberal what you

guys need to realize about saddam

hussein is that he slaughtered and

butchered millions of iraqis

and he was actually supported by america

to get into iraq the cia

supported a coup in 1963 against the

the the rule of abdul karim asim

and and saddam hussein and the birth

party were supported by the cia

to get into iraq and to rule iraq in the

1980s

the war against iran saddam hussein was

supported by it

saddam hussein was supported by

americans and anyone who thinks that

saddam hussein

is uh anti-imperialist or anti-american

needs to look at his full history before

coming to terms that he he's got sort of

a good position

and someone to support and that's

putting us

that's not even talking about all the

crimes that saddam had on his own people

so

i think people need to realize that

saddam hussein isn't someone to be proud

of or someone to support

or to call based or anything like that

um

but whatever he's done you have to be

uh anti-war in iraq and that's a clear

position to hold

but what i'm trying to say when it came

to george gallows

he seemed like he disregarded sometimes

crimes and

i'm not saying oh i want him to go to

the british media and talk about the

crimes and

and sort of give leverage to imperialist

uh policies on iraq but there's a way to

go about these things that maybe you can

look less uh

favorable towards someone like saddam

hussein

um

so i mean uh

you realize that galloway met with

saddam because

there were existing sanctions against

iraq which were hurting the iraqi people

and

galloway's mission was to

help put an end to those sanctions

if that's his mission that's good i

think there's a general tendency amongst

people that are anti-imperialist to see

saddam as someone that

is an entertainer i think i think this

is um i

i am never someone who you know um

says saddam is based i don't even say

bashar al-assad is based

i think this is something that's up to

the judgment of the iraqi and the syrian

people

and i prefer not to uh uh

intervene with my judgments

what's that i'm iraq no no i know i know

i know i know i heard you

i respect your position i don't take

issue with your position

uh i respect i mean i grew up in a place

with many uh

iraqi immigrants who fled the war

and also fled saddam so i respect your

position

um but it's still the it's up to the

iraqi people it's not for me to uh

to decide fair enough um

so it's been a good talk uh you do good

content by the way i just saw you

released a new youtube video so i'll go

i'll be going watching that

okay i appreciate it uh it was a good

talk yeah

see you soon maybe huh another debate

okay okay for sure see him

take