DEBATE NIGHT [2021-06-15]

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allright we're going to get right into it

we going to get right into it

um

anything else i have to say

a

uh yeah i still haven't been getting a response from wash about the the boxing thing so

gues he doesn't want to

so that's an update on that

okay

let's do this

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ham and mike

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do quick sound check you good

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all right we're going to get started

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just one second let me get this in

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on

hey guys welcome to politically provoked and interactive podcast where wes debates panels and interviews this is your first time joining us don't forget that subscribe button as well as the notification bell to keep up to date with all of future debates and panels we are primarily on you tube but you can find us on facebook twitter twitch discord that you picked up and inscrim

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we are a neutral ground where people from across the political spectrum can either do ge it out int a debate

or just have a casual discussion in one of our panels

either way we triy to represent both left and right wing views on every episode

all right don't mind that video it's going to be redone but i'm your left wingost britney and this is your right wingost todd how are you todd

doing great great how are you

i'm doing get excited

all right yah so we got an exciting debate for you guys tonight i didn't realize how much hype there was for it but apparently this is going to be a very good debate so let's bring on our guests

let's bring on back

infrared how are you tonight

good good how are you

doing good so yeah you want to introduce yourself tell people where you lie on the political spectrum and where people can find you

sure i'm a haz from the infrared collective we're a group of international marxist leninists

m

are you can find our youtube channel at the the infrared show

ah the infrared youtube channelh you can find us at twitch at twitch dot t v slash infrared show

i thank you

all right and next it's zultanious how are you tonight

i'm doing good you can call me zalt for short b b

that sounds good to me so yeah you want to introduce yourself on tell people where you lie on the political spectrum and where people can find you

yeah so i'm sultanis and i do political content and it's kind of diverse in what i talk about they can find me on odyssey bitshoot

you tube under zultans i'm also

on telegram of people want to join my telegram chat

on the political spectrum

i would say i'm a fascist but i don't

really identify his right wing so

al right um so i do have both of their um information all their links in the description so if you guys want to go check out their stuff you can find it there

um all right so here's what we're going to do each person can give an opening statement can be as little as one minute no longer than five minutes about the topic and your stance

after that we'll open up the floor after the debate is over we'll go into the q and a

you guys can tag politically provoked

who your question is addressed to

after the q and a will do closing statements and final thoughts

so i think let's get started with opening statements but before we do that i

for results and if you want to give a little backstory on your guys's history before you start the debate

i mean there's not much it's just that some people like other rl wanted me to have like a debate

with and for red

because it

carl says he doesn't understand fascism but i don't really care a lot i like

a lot of the stuff they

infrared does when it comes to triggering bred tubers

just uh

really does only or started after i did like a live stream of carl where we kind of like reacted to his video response to oh on socialism

which i do agree that botxes understand socialism i just had criticisms that were

directed at the video really

right

um okay and then just as far as the rules um let's limit the in interruptions and the personal tax and how things might get a little heated but um let's try to keep it to a minimum

ah so yeah opening statementslton you want to get started

ah sure

so like

my main central argument is that

practice and implementations of marxism have largely been a betrayal

of its actual theory if we look at mark's angles and linen

as well as having to go back on things that were said before coming to power

that

power to justify regimes namely stalin with his original rejection of socialism in one country

and the notion of commodity production can exist within socialism which he rejected originally

which he later pushed

for after formulating that s i o c alongside i think the guy's name

a b car in

to ausce left wing opposition

and implementation of marxism has

largely ended up

closer to fascism and i would say this as a fascist because they've adopted corporatist doctrines to justify themselves you dot utilizing

patriotism or nationalism to various degrees with conservatism to sustain themselves

which i just think that's

practical if we look at real world implementations

and i

largely think it's because marxism is unrealistic but i don't think a lot of marxists specifically marxs leninists

represent mark's angles or linen correctly

that's the main

foundation of my argument

alright

has

ah i suppose my stance would be to argue that there is a direct continuity

i

between marks angles lenin stalin mao

and various others that came after and not only was there a discernible direct continuity but that each one of these people

reinvented the same essential insight

i

in a new form

okay so we can uh open up the floor now

okay so

i would say like a pretty good overview of what i'm bringing up here is like on principles of communism

by angles in eight hundred forty seven

and like i'm pretty sure you've read it but

like the main idea is that the proletariat cannot exist with the burgeoisie and the bugeoizie cannot exist

uh without the proletariat and at the proletariat it still exists or commodity production the cannot

be

socialism because it's still capitalist

and

people can

go through that they want to but the

the basic gist of what is there is that

capitalism is rooted in

production of commodities

and

i do know that uh

marx's analysis on this is because of ideas of like division of labor

that would that be largely correct

h well firstly i don't think there's any contention as to the contents of principles of communism but i think you may have

read into it

some kind of um

definitive statement about scale in terms of time

i think there's maybe a misunderstanding that

what engels was actually saying is that upon the seizure of power

a commodity production

as well as the class antagonism would

instantaneously disappear but not only do we not find evidence of angles saying this

in principles of communism

we find direct evidence of marx and angles arguing the exact contrary that

socialism will not amount

an immediate

uh dissolution of uh

the prior form of society but merely represents the proletariats political

seizure of power

now in the ultimate and final sense it is true that the proletariat

cannot coincide

with the bousgeoisie but the keyword is in the ultimate and final sense

that doesn't mean that instantaneously the class antagonism disappears it means that ultimately it does or in engle's words

governance over people

ceases to exist only the administration of things

in regards to the dissolution of the state for example

um

uh yeah i believe what you're talking about is what marx called stotwason which translates to state machinery

uh a lot of people try to attribute that uh

a quote to lenon that's more of a mistranslation but it basically means a state is a skeleton of its former self

where you just have labor vouchers and it's just simply monitoring production

which isn't the way that we actually would think of a

states in the real sense of like a governing body

and

h i do know a lot of marxis leninist try to say like historical materialism uh because of

the different uh progression of the

production to reach socialism

be caause it still has social ends it is usually like a

i would say it's more of a coke

because mark

outright calls that a political program

and a political program is something that you would define as actually being inherently reactionary

uh i'm not sure where you're coming from there but uh i will say that um

marks and angels are very clear about the facts

that the state

a will continue to exist it will not simply be a skeleton of its former self

and you can even read you can even interpret marx's view in the

eighteen brmer about that the states machinery

will be smashed

not to mean that when the pro upon seizure of power the proletariat will

no longer be in possession of a state but that it will build a new state

from scratch and this is precisely what happened in the historical experience

um

but marks and angles are very clear that

the state

h will continue to persist

and that the manner of its dissolution

the so called withering away in no way contradicts

as stalin pointed out to the strengthening of the proletariant

our socialistic state

in fact this view of stalins is perfectly

a dialectical it's one that there is no reason to think marks and angles

according to their own view of what the dialectic was

we disagree with

so i know like in state revolution

lenon basically makes like the distinction that socialism is a lower phase of communism

and

even in this lower phase where he writes about it it would have like the abolishment of things like commodity production

which isn't something that stalin would ever get rid of and even like in israeli years stalin called commodity production the

the inherent characteristic to capitalist production because it's related to the value

and that

this isn't like definitions this is more like the characteristics of a systems definitions are retarded

but uh

well what would you say that

there is no doubt

that commodity production dissolves with the dissolution of capitalism the question is similar to the question of the state what is the manner

by which the commodity form

undergoes

i'd like to say it like this the development of its own dissolution

and historical experience shows that the commodity form is not does not instantaneously disappear upon the political seizure of power

that in fact

a new type of repetition of the commodity form the socialistic commodity

it takes its place in the socialist commodity as a matter of fact corresponds

to the dissolution of the commodity form itself if you read stalin's

economic problems in the u s s r andf you read his works on the socialist commodity it's very clear

in what ways the socialist commodity undermines the commodity form for instance

the socialist commodity and therefore the socialist commodity formed is based on a determinanate relationship

between state for example enterprises in the state in general and the coal causes

another form of ownership which is not necessarily

and private ownership per se but it's still not the same as state

ownership

uh and and

the way this differs from the commodity form under capitalism is that the commodity form under capitalism

uh is the exch is uh how should i say a blank cheque

can be exchanged pretty much with anything so long as

uh so long as uh this other thing uh

can be measured under the same form this is not true for the socialist

commodity form so here we see a direct example of the manner by which

a the commodity form undergoes the development of its

the solution

uh yeah so like i'll get to to my explanation the commodity form in a second but uh i do know an antiduring

uh this is more of a paraphrase quote uh from angles it says the proletariat seizes political power and turns the means of production in first instance into state property

but in doing so

it thus abolishes itself as proletaria abolishes all class distinctions and class antagonisms

in abolishes the state as state

you also have the linen

speech at the all russian congress of transport workers which i'm also paraphrasing in a quote

a smaller quote

indeed the reint of the workers and peasants will last forever

we should never have socialism for it implies the abolition of classes and as long as there are workers and peasants there would be different classes and therefore no full socialism

you also have

lenen and economics and politics era dictatorship ship a the proletariat recess socialism means abolition of classes

and

it is important to address

so the state is weathering away as far as there is no longer any capitalists

class aes a consequent

class can be suppressed

that's usually something people try to say that uh

lenon justifies like a bureaucratic state but he

refers to it in the same term that marx uses which is outwas and state function

which is a skeleton

and i would argue that there had there is no commodity production

under socialism

and the critique of the gotha program

within cooperative society based on common ownership the means of production producers do not exchange their products s as little does to labor employed

on the products appear here

as the value of these products

you have a

capital volume one chapter three were he talks about money a the circulation of commodities

and

like i don't i don't really feel it's super necessary to read all thats it's basically quotes i do have a lot of notes on this so people wh are interested

but even stalin echoes much of this and the agrarian question

uh

were says introducing socialism means abolishing commodity production abolishing the money system

raising capitalism to its foundation and socializing all the means of production

the socialist revolutionaries however want to leave it

all this intact and to socialize only the land which is absolutely impossible i commodity production remains intact the land too

will become a commodity and will come on the market any day

the socialism of the socialist revolutionaries would be blund to the sky

and he would actually contradict this later on when he would encourage small scale private land plots which accounted for a majority of agricultural production the soviet union sorry i was a little long right there

sorry yeah well there's a lot to unpack

i will say i'm somewhat

confused and h i think there's a misunderstanding here

there is no doubt again to reiterate there is no doubt that for marx engeles and lenin

socialism corresponds to the dissolution of the commodity form

and that the commodity form in the ultimate sense is not compatible

with socialism

the question is when

that's the operative point so when angle says in anty during that

st you know the proletariat and seizing state power thus abolishes itself

or he doesn't use the word abolish actually but

dissolves itself in the state

he doesn't say that this happens instantaneously nowhere do marx in engeles or lenin say it happens instantaneously they make it very clear that this is someth this is a

gradual process

a that doesn't none of this stuff disappears overnight furthermore with regards to the critique of the gotha program

i think here you're confusing ah

minimal and maximal programme the critique of

remarks the critique of the gotha program

involved clarifying what socialism or communism would mean in an ultimate and final sense or in other words in the sense of a mat maximal program

he wasn't laying down some kind of principle that in no way

could commodities correspond

ah

to

socialism i mean marx himself understood socialism as a process as a movement not as an end goal or an ideal

but he did understand that this process

has consequences ultimate consequences for

the transformation of society among those consequences being the dissolution of the commodity form

and the state itself

what

a that doesn't mean that this happens instantaneously or that

just because a given socialistic society does not

a possess these characteristics

this means they're no longer socialists the point is

in what direction is the socialist society changing is it changing in a direction

a in this direction

for example

now ren

especially confusing is when you bring up

the point about the land question because

first of all

the context is that stalin is addressing the socialist revolutionaries inability to address the state of industry modern industry

and for stalin

modern industry will be or stalin lend in the bolsviks in general will be nationalized by the state

in regards to the transformation of the

a land into commodities

the operative point is that they become commodities that can be freely bought and sold in exchanged

so the presence of

quote unquote private plots

a is completely irrelevant because those private plots could not

be exchanged between peasants

the produce produced on them could be exchanged in some kind of way but the land itself could not be so i don't see what's actually relevant or i don't see how stalin

would eventually come to contradict himself when he stated that stalin did never say that

no kind of commodity whatsoever would exist

in the early stages or even in the socialism itself

he specifically spoke of

how decisive

the socialization of land and industry was to socials now what that looks like

does not mean

complete nationalization of everything

ah

but it also doesn't mean that land can be freely bought and sold as a commodity this is why i refer to the significance of a socialist commodity form

it's not the same thing as the commodity form under capitalism under capitalism

the commodity form

entails the free exchange of commodities

as a blank check this is not the socialist commodity form because the range of the

the range of fum

exchange is narrowly

restricted

okay so

what would you say would you say like money is it is necessary for

value tat takes

like value form would you say that

ah certainly yes

okay

uh

i do know that like in volume one chapter three uh

capital

marks as the division of labor

it's a necessary condition for the production of commodities but it does not

follow converselely that the production of commodities is a necessary condition for the

division of labor

only such products can be commodities with regard to each as a result of different kinds of labor

each being carried on independently for the amount of private industrialists and it continues on with the seizing of the means of production by society

production of commodities is done away with and simultaneously the mastery of the product

over the producer anarchy and social productions replaced systemic deffinite orphan organization

and

up

i do know that there's actually stuff from

linen which i do have in my document

were he basically says that the that russia was incapable of

carrying out the socialist revolution

but what they wanted russia to

be was more something symbolic or something that could actually

help foster revolutions in western countries which were actually

in a positions where they could have the socialist revolution

and

this is and joseph stalin talks about that in the foundations of leninism

i don't really feel feel it's super necessary to quote it

but but

yeah i just want to know what your opinion on that is on

well in regards to the relevant passages you

quoted in capital again i'm confused i don't actually see the relevance whatsoever does mark say when this would happen or does he say that

or does he imply that this ultimately will be the case does he say that this happens a

instantaneously upon a political seizure of power

a this is highly doubtful because as we can see

marks both marks and angles say the

exact contrary in other places

a so it doesn't make sense to me to quote these passages from capitol as some kind of evidence that the

the u s s r could not possibly be socialist because commodities existed commodities existed but only in so far

as they participated in the development of their own eventual dissolution

a and this is the perfectly dialectical view that is one hundred percent consistent with what we know about what marx and angles said on the matter

now in regards to lenin's view about the

significance of the russian revolution

it's true that initially lennin believed

and the other bolsheviks believed

that the russia would not be capable of establishing socialism on its own

but when it became clear that the revolution was not going to spread to western europe

lenin posed the following question

and i'm not it's i'm not saying it's adverbatim so i'm paraphrasing it a little bit but it's more along more or less along these lines

uh what if

the fundamental

a foundations of civilization and lenin when he speaks of civilization he means

modernization modernity

what if the fundamental prerequisites of civilization

can be built

not following the european path

but in an entirely

neway what if we can build this from scratch

and this was the path

that lenin

resolve to pursue and that's why lenin would say things like communism is electricity

was

sorry communism is soviet power plus the electrification of the whole country

became clear to the bolseviks the revolution was not going to spread to western europe and that wasn't going to save them

so they elected to

they elected to to

maintain fidelity actually to what originally distinguished

at the bolshevik way from the very beginning from the very beginning with the splits from the mensheviks and other trends which was

a recognition that the

the essence of marxism of revolution of socialism

must be rediscovered

new and in accordance with the national circumstances

unique in particular to

and russia and the russian empire at large

okay

so like

stalin does say in foundations of leninism

that for the final victory of socialism for the organization of socialist production

the efforts of one country particularly of a peasant

country like russia are insufficient

for the efforts a the proletarians of several advanced countries are required

uh

you also have a farewell letter to the swiss workers

single haanded the russian proletariat cannot bring about the socialist revolution to victoriaus

conclusion

but it can give the russian revolution a mighty sweep

that would create the most favorable conditions for a socialist revolution

i'd would in the sense started

then

you have the era the dictatorship of the proletariat h

by linen

peasant

farming continues to be petty commodity production here we have an extremely broad and very sound deep rooted basis

for capitalism a basis of which capitalism persists or arises an new and it

bitter struggle against communism

and on state corperation

indeed the power of the state over all large scale means of production political power and the hands of the proletariats the alliance of the proletariats with the

many millions of small and very small peasants

the assured proletariat leadership

of the peasantry etcetera

is that

not all that is necessary to build a complete socialist country out of cooperatives

uh which out of a cooperative alone

mm

so

is this not at all necessary to build a complete social society is still not the building of a sociali society but is necessary and sufficient for it

so it it does sound like it is like

he he's considering it like a trans it's trying to achieve go towards socialism but it's not still socialism you can say they're ideologically socialist but they're they're

and practiced the historical economic system that was put in place

is not socialism

and

that there's many things that we can go through on this but i do you think it's necessary to ask this uh

if

if these things are like uh

but what was all the context that all these quotes are said if they're basically like

out of date

sure yeah it's very simple actually i think again we are coming back to the same and original problem that i brought up before

the distinction you are drawing between the eventual and final consequences of socialism for society and socialism

itself

it is an non dialectical distinction

a socialism is not an end state socialism is a process it's a process that does have

at final or permanent or

discernable

h

consequences for society but when those consequences are realized

and no one knows it could be one hundred years it could be five hundred years it could be a one thousand years no one said anything about when it would alter

as you a

t it adverbatim or as you were quoting adverbatim

the final and victorious conclusion we have to be very careful here and recognize

a these operative words they are not talking about something that happens instantaneously

or over night

a it must be thought of as a process and fin furthermore

i also noted that you brought up

lenin in the era of dictatorship of the proletariat

that capitalism is being reproduced

thats through

petty peasant farming in the countryside

that is not the point of contention that was the whole point

of the colcoses which you quoted adverbatim lenin fully endorsed as the very solution to this problem

so i don't actually see what

we're talking about here i don't see how there are these quotations you've you

you have mentioned i don't see how these in some way negate the view that the u s s r was socialist was it

the final conclusion the final possible conclusion socialism has

for the soviet union or the world at large no of course not but it's not a dialectical

it's not dialectical whatsoever to think in terms of final conclusions you think in terms of processes and you think in terms of

and orientations and developments you don't think of states that are a

begin and end somewhere in some kind of arbitrary way

ah there's that's why

marx himself said that communism for us

is not an ideal to which reality will have to conform itself but a real movement the premises of which

are now in existence

marx understood communism as an objective force in reality

so for the u s osar to be a socialist society doesn't mean

that it's a society

um fine who's ah

or whom the final consequences of socialism are already realized

it means it's a socialist society it's a society that is a

building socialism that is itself socialist is in the process of the development

of socialism there is no end state

or end goal here that we're talking about

so i believe that the main problem here is that i would say it's largely ignoring what the historical

actual economic policies that were put in place at the time in place and

what the practices actually were

in

i am mostly aware that they understood

that

socialism and communism are basically interchangeable and

saying that you're having a political program where it's just addressing itself to historical necessity

at

that's

just seems more it's like a coping process to say that we haven't done socialism or we're not going toward socialism

because if we look at what the actual historical policies were

it's basically state socialism which is interchangeable with state capitalism which i would say are good systems they're better than what we currently have

and

there there's all kinds of stuff uh such as like uh

and kdar on

you had

there's like an hungaryan article where it talks about planned management socialism were it basically encourages small scale

uh petty bourgeois ownership of the means of production you have the case of poland

when it was integrated with the soviet economy were

n

by nine hundred fifty six most of agriculture was privatized

and then you have the peace rate system in the soviet union still have commodity production st have the value form the only socialist to try and attempt to abolish the value form was actually poll pot and i don't even know if most marxists want to stand him even though i think he's a great guy

ah

but i well there's a few things first of all i'm not sure what policy is i'm not sure how i'm ignoring historical policy i think everything i'm sad i've said is perfectly consistent

with an appreciation of those historical policies as perf i think that is that's a criticism don't in rts thes plenty of times where i want to interrupt you and i held back so i want you to hold ok sorry

ill but

it's perfectly consistent with what i said

that socialism will take different form according to different national conditions there's no blueprint

for socials a written somewhere there's no one path

not' to socialism that applies for all

secondly i am very curious to know

where any prominent marxis speaks of the abolition of the commodity form whether marx angles

lenen or styl themselves

abolition is a political measure that you take

by the use of state power directly

it's not a this is a volunteeristic and on dialectical view of how a mode of production changes a mode of production doesn't change

because a state legislates so by law or abolishes something

it happens through a gradual process of transformation the material it's not just instruments of production that constitute

the material forces of production

the material relations of production are also material and not purely subjective and political

so those

a do cannot be abolished this idea that

the value form is abolished is one hundred per cent a american falsification

that has nothing to do with marxism whatsoever there is no

abolition of the commodity form just like there's no

abolition of the state or even abolition of class

the word marx uses often is off he bone he doesn't use the word abolition

he uses the hagelian term subliate

and sublaatee obviously doesn't mean abolition

so in anti dereing federick angle says again with the seasoned means of production by society production of commodities is done away with and simultaneously the mastery of the product over the producer

anarchy and social production is replaced

with systemic definite organization

which became which is state machinery

which marks used the term stot weason which is basically a skeleton of the former self of the state

and this is just broad institutions that all they do is monitor production this is not a

governing

body in the way that we think of like an actual state as state

and

that that that's really like that the main point of contention because like it seems like you just

want to go out and say

material conditions

when the material conditions don't address what the historical implementation

of the policies were

you use that same exact criticism with fascism when you talk about its exact economic policies e though we look at misllinys regime

sure it was laz a fair economics for like what

five years and had implementation the rocko laws with rosi

which you brought in state owned trade unions cooperatives

and then by nine hundred thirty two you hat the formalization

of the corporate state

by that point seventy five percent of the economy was in state

hands owned by the state directly were had state management

and then by ninetheenre forty three with nicolo bombachi which was the founder of the italian communist party

you had ninety

five percent of the economy to the socialized with worker management

and that seems like it's more of a distraction

from what the actual policies of what marx lenon and angles were arguing

and their actual literature to basically say that

socialism is just whatever i want it to be at this given place in time so i can address any pragmatic policy and the you want to implement

people that are incompatible with a marxist world view such as nick landz and heideger

which hyderger if you go through his black books is completely in line with like nazi doctrine and this is something that's largely accepted by national socialists themselves

and i would say this even as a fascist

ok you done there

you don't

yeah i'm done there but

we have a lot

so i can see why you choose not to turn on your cam because i think the audience will show

that the person behind the computer is a broken record and not a human being

oh it's not a broken record

well i'm not sure um yes

so it sounds like you're just trying to throw a lot of shit at the wall and see what's going to stick

you

quoted angles again for no reason even though we already addressed

that what that precisely looks like and when it actually happens was not addressed

by angles in that book

i don't know why you just quote it again

then you said a lot of things about fascism that i'm not sure are relevant to the conversation

and you then we we can we can change the topic to fascism since you don't know anything about marxism we can talk about fascism then you brought up nick land and heidegger and find it impossible that they could possibly that could they ever possibly be reconciled with marxism

even though the precedent for them doing so in the twentieth century probably outnumbers

the amount of people who or at least in the case of hideger probably outnumbers the amount of people who

to have an appreciation for heideger in isolation

and as regards to nick land it's already been established you cad i don't know how you measure this but most of nick lands followers and the people who appreciate him are marxist

so i don't even know why you're bringing up it's very chaotic you're bringing up a million topics trying to pivot away from the fact that you don't know what you're talking about

when it comes to marx and eggos we talk about the implementation of policies

and the implementation of

this contradictory

what marx and engele said was

but you're interpreting marx and engeles's words to be what the blueprint is what the minimal program is going to be when the proletariat seizes political power

that wasn't what they were talking about what they were talking about

was more fundamentally

the ultimate consequences socialism would have for society

a when engle says

that the anarchy of production is replaced with definite organization

that commodities are done away with

nowhere does he say that this is in the form of a policy that is a

written by fiat upon the immediate seizure of political power if he says that

please find a single quotation by angles

that suggests in a specific

determine it in concrete context germany france england

that immediately upon seizing power the proletariat is going to do this this and this policy

that that will correspond with that that wasn't how marx and angles thought it isn't what they said and they said

the exact opposite

engles even said that the forms of private property will persist

after the seizure of state power

it's funny that you call yourself a fascist but the extent of your knowledge about marxism

doesn't go farther than ultra leftist and infantile leftist

and trotsy is that were

refusely already critiqued an excommunicated

from marxism by marxist leninist

precisely on the grounds that they possessed an implicit affinity with fascism

a an affinity that you seem to be here confirming

a the connection it seems between left communism trotskyism and fascism

and you have confirmed

yourself

so there

the sound gone for you is he just not talking

are you still there selton

yp

i don't know if he's there

this is the problem with no camera though you don't know somebody's there

um

y

i don't know if he's there or not

uh p there

thereight

are you talking or not because uh there you got well

no

um

i don't know if you were talking or not but we couldn't hear you

yeah it's being boug it's being really buggy sorry about that

allh

i don't know why it did that

i did not hear anything that he said

okay

sorry about that

um okay somebody sent me a message he said that i firmed a connection between like leftcms and trotsks right

that was the a very minor point that i made

and rebutting pretty much everything you said

i said that at the end as a kind of ironic cherry on top but that in no way was the substance of my argument

substance of my argument is that all you know how to do is repeat yourself

and not address any of the ways i've already responded to the various passages and quotations you brought up for angles marx and lenin

doesn't seem to be it seems like you've lost the plot and you're not actually following the course of argumentation as it's been taken

uh

ok so

i would say that the the

the literature is actually honest of what it says in my view is that trotskyists and and

left communists or left coms have a

more correct application of what marx actually said

i see marx as leninist as partly contradiction and the other part is uh

mostly because the i see them as closer to me as a fascist and most people like nikuet

uh erns sneakish uh cro

uh carl otto patel

which were the german national bolsheviks

uh

identified very closely with them and so did uh

he his name as krivokski which was a

russian national bolshevik

he considered basically bolshevism to be kind like a radish it's

white on the inside red on the outside

and my view is basically the same as that marx's leninist have more common

commonalities with somebody like me

and the historical

process argument i would say that the historic histores

historical progression of what

happened under these eastern countries ended up embracing a form of corporatism

which is state owned trade unions cooperatives or

worker councils that basically coordinate production

and planning

for social ends and that's how i would probably

broadly view it and i think that

marxs and lenen and angles are very

uh

up front about what they actually meant in their literature i just think they're wrong and they're largely outdated and marx actually has a incorrect understanding of socialism i believe socialism is state socialism when it's done for

social ends in society itself

and

the

dialectical process i would say is actually more applied to the state when it applies to

a broader antagonisms inside of it and then

synthesizes them into the state

and then uses them for social ends of its own self and planning

stuff like that that's what i would broadly say

i

don't really want to associate with trotskyists or leftcoms though because a lot of them in my opinion are just h

well la of a better word they look like insuls but also coomers i don'tly know what you call them

okay weird

is are you done or i don't want mean to interrupt you

now yeah i'm doned

okay

well it's not that i consider

h left comms and trotsky is and yourself to explicitly agree with one another but you sare the same

fundamentally dogmatic epistemic

a position in terms of your thinking and in terms of the

your view of the matter i know mussolini thought for example that stalin was a some kind of red fascist

and many people many fascists took liberties both now and in the past

with how they interpreted marxism leninism and the meaning of marxism lenism the plain face truth is that this is a form of copium

you denny

the simplicity

the simplicity of the manner by which marxism leninism

genuinely inherited the tradition of marxism

the very

from the very beginning of marxes

a break with the young he gelians from the very beginning of the

lenins break

with the second international marxism has stayed

mm

in the middle course the correct

and golden if you if you will the golden mean the golden course

and it has not strayed from this either to the left or to the right it is stayed on course

and hiss

and maintained its consistency

and its continuity with marxism as a whole

there's no need to take liberties in a

calling it some kind of

fascism or deviation because as we can see

so long as we are not dogmatic

and so long as we are not the

undialectical in the manner

by which we interpret the words of marx

angles in linen

we can find

a very simply

that

at stalin mao and others

we're in continuity with them

and the only proof of this we really need is that

the same arguments you're using against marxist leninist were curiously levied against lenin himself

lennin was accused of deviating from

the in stalin's word the talmudhistic doctrine of so called doctrine of marxism

lenin was accused of deviating from marxism and being a transgressor but the truth is that what we're dealing with is a dialectic of essence and appearance

h it appeared

the appearance the stagnant appearance of the

marxism would eventually come to contradict its actual essence

lenin rediscovered the essence of marxism and in doing so broke

with the official apparent forms

of marxism the second in international

and it is not without

this break

that lenin would have that the october revolution would

was even possible

and it's the same in regards to

marxis relationship even with for example german idealism

you can go forward i mean

ah

this one sided view that you're attempting to portray marxism leninism

under is the same view

that left communis and trotzkyas head and the reason why marxis lenin is historically associated

am talking about in the nineteen thirties trotskyism with fascism

isn't because they explicitly agreed with one another it's because they belong to the same

ah

historical one sided position of this abstract

negation of

the classical liberal order

a marxism leninism meanwhile was not the passion of a one sided

negation but involved the negation of the negation the building of a new order

uh in its place a new um

reawakening of civilization

you will the things that fascists were saying

a superficially and apparently

a for example about reviving tradition reviving civilization and overcoming liberalism sure they said all of these things and they were very a

vain and passionate about saying them but they didn't actually do any of those things it's only marxist

and marxist leninist in particular who in reality did this and they did this and

which was perfectly consistent with marxism from the very beginning

uh yeah so like

my main view is like

marxism leninism isn't that

it's n necessarily a bad thing that it wants to do like

state capitalism or state socialism are both the same

but

that's not necessarily a bad thing i think they're very positive ins for social planning and organizing the economy for society

in

that's part of the reason why i personally

don't get along with like trotsks or leftcms and you may be right that i may have like a similar criticism but that's because i believe that the

actual literature says different than what the

was put into practice understalin

in fact like

part i know that like stalin's main argument against lenin was because of the net but

this is probably kind of odd for you i personally think khrushchev is better than stalins he actually streamedlined production

nationalized

a lot of stuff and people unfairly associate him with the liberalization of the u s s r which which isn't accurate at all

it's a

but

that's a different conversation on itself really

and

as far as ke

fascism like say it's going to like do a new order and all these different things

i would say like i if you go through like academics like a james gragor roger griffin

zeve stern held

uh a lot of them do see it as a revolutionary political doctrine that did a lot of what it said in practice including like the

by

weber's book varieties of fascism

and

it usually like the more left wing

cope

against fascism is like the capitalism decay thing that comes from

or pump dodllt

but are pump dolts uh main criticisms against fascism which they're

ten points anybody can

look him up

th those same points on what he defines as like the capitalistic nature of fascism otto rule which was a trotskyist from germany used that to basically

umbrella

fascist swift marxist leninist too ironically many of the same criticisms

people can find that on the our plan

uh

website if they're interested

as far as tradition goes i don't

necessarily kill care about tradition like nazis

we're a bit

more about tradition i don't really care about tradition at all like

i'm ok people when i go destroy churchs a religion i don't really care

uh for me i just want a society that's based on concepts of modernity and technology

and uh

at adopting these two social ends

and i don't really see tradition as doing that

mostly it's

oh

sterile when it's mostly a liberal nowadays

okay well i have no doubt

that you

believe that your curricualature of marxism leninism is positive that you just

ironically identify with it

but i'm not interested in the caurricature of marxism leninism either the

that's been created by left communist trotsky and opponents of marxism leninism at large

and whether they on ironically agree with it or condemn it or not i'm interested in the authentic essence

of what marxism leninism actually was

a historically and in the contemporary era and if the

marxist leninists have never transgressed

and terms of the main thinkers of marxism lenism they have never transgressed beyond the simple means of their words

ah

people have to superimpose interpretations that these are red fascists that these are a

that de gravedggers of the revolution that these are

bourgeoise state capitalist deviations whatever

they have to superimpose the

a this interpretation because they take too many liberties

and in terms of how they interpret the meaning of the their words

uh their meaning of the words of the marxist leninist theorists and thinkers

are indeed simple

right they're very simple

what

they're precisely simple because of the depth

and complexity and brilliance

that culminates into them

now in regards to the

the n e p

that this was not the primary i'm not even familiar with stalin disagreeing with lennin per se on the question of the n e p stalin affirmed at least later

the necessity of the n e p he just recognized that it had fulfilled its purpose by nine hundred twenty eight that its purpose was completed

the primary difference between lenin and stalin actually rested upon the national question

things like the georgian affair

and here it's a little bit more complicated

now and it's a very subtle difference not

too much of a

extreme difference

now in regards to this new order of fascism you allege i'm not so sure what

new civilization or reawakening of the fundamental civilization

fascism was ever able to accomplish if by

new order you mean the invasion of libya ethiopia

and eastern europe

a through turbocharging the pre fascist military industrial complex with the backing of

international finance and banking cartels

ah sure but i don't see what's so new about that whatsoever it seems to me

from a cursory glance at the actual history that fascists were merely the hired thugs

of international banks and the military industrial complex and the status quo that had prevailed

and before they seized power

a

the soviet union by contrast

never engaged in such vain transgressions of

attempting to acquire some kind of colonial glory all of the soviet union's actions including the invasion of finland during the winter war

oh

we're done in accordance with its rightful historical

and the

and territorial rights bounded by prior written agreements the soviet union did not

transgress the treaties it signed it didn't

and in vain invade these countries it has no right to

so uh

i don't see the soviet union rather focused on the realwakening of its own internal civilization

uh yeah i would say there's a book by uh think his name is stanley turner hitler a biography

then you also have the myth of big

big business

and nazi germany

uh i don't remember the name of the author but it's whatever you have miscellaneous intellectuals by james gregor then you have fascism just titled fascism by roger griffin which is another academic u

all of them pretty much do a pretty good job

going against

the accusation of international finance backing them

in fact the only people who say like back to the nazis that had like an economic incentive were white russians believe is what is pointed out in the biography on hitler

uh

i am aware of a book

called a

liberalism to fascism industrialism during fascist italy

and

there's actually a letter that's included in the book that is written to gram ski

it's

i can

send you send post an image of it the discord and all my telegram i people are interested

but

uh wait a second

did you get a phone call

just to keep going

sorry about that

uh yup

i completely

forgot where i was at but we're going to probably get into the q and a because we have a lot of them and that could probably take up the

all right so an hour so i don't know if i want to finish up some of your points and then well ok ok

yea

ow

i

forgot what i was saying on the last part but basically those academics do a pretty good job of going against

the idea of international finance backing them and soad they show that there was a

pretty big at

a contention with international finance in them

and

uh the letter that was written to gramski it

basically says that the industrialists were willing to pay the communists in italy to disrupt the fascist unions organizations which is

pretty much it an accusation it's a level level that fascists for doing

against communist which i wn't necessarily deny but

lenon did similar things when he basically disrupted

union organization

and varieties of fascism which is by another academic that i like

he basically says upon closer examination we find that most of the points which dutt considers

characteristics of fascism apply equally to communism

distrust of pollan

parliamentary liberal democracy

power was centralized to the party organs

the central committee e pltabureau

in the early phase of the civil war

lenin overturned the nineteen seventeen russian constitutional assembly election forcibly after the bolsheviks not win the majority

extension of state mo monopolies and state organizations state planning

cooperatives controlled

all aspects of the economy and the limitation and

and repression

of independent working class movements this was seen even dur in the civil war with the crushing of the

think it's a cronstad rebellion in the ukrainian anarchist the

part

concentrazation of decentralization of all blocks to a single

economic political unit

and the excerbation of imperialist antagonisms both within and outside the communist world commi con

was established by stalin as bringing

that as a binding economic force between socialist states of eastern europe and later to warsaw pact to hold onto these vast territories

uh

as far as more antagonism as i can think of china

in the soviet

ah soviet split where china was basically engaging in all kinds of border skrimmishes against russia unjustifiably so

and also many different asians territories and even worked with

paul pytt who was funded by the cia

and

basically you could argue in forms of territorial disputes with other countries

and

i don't necessarily think these are caricatures of what marxis leninism is

i think they put up a front of

marxs angles and linen to justify themselves but largely i see stalinist as engaging in a form of revisionism to

actually warp it to what they want it to be

and this is part of the criticisms i believe that like uh

dogan has on one of his speeches on

the failure of national bolshevism

and one of the reasons why he disassociated from edward liman off

that that's about that's all my points but ye unfortunately i don't want to take up too much time it seems like you're trying to bring up a multitude of topics at rapid fire as though we're supposed to passively accept this without a careful evaluation and scrutiny of all of the different types of things

you're sayings you said quite a lot of things a just there

you made allegations for you may denied for example the connection between british finance and the british empire

and fascism

a you then shifted to talk about

com you then pointed out that there were several apparent similarities between communism and fascism none of which you have proven or

persuaded anyone in my view into

that these are the essential characteristics of either respectively they can even be applied to

to capitalist countries to the new deal america for example

you then uh

talked about how china unjustly

engaged with border skirmishes against the soviet union again well that's your subjective view that in the chinese view ah

all the territories that were stolen from it

in the nineteenth century

that during the century of humiliation are its own rightful territories now you can disagree with that but it's a legitimate historical claim and doesn't come from thin air

like ethiopia's h

invasion of ethiopia and libya and the moreover the nazis invasion of eastern europe which was completely baseless and

was based in no real

a legitimate historical claim but they just pulled it out of their ass basically

and then what else did you say you said something about

you said something about paul pot

i'm not sure why we want to talk about paul pot

the reasons for the chinese supporting the kimer rouge are complicated but they have to do with the

the vietnam and the perceived bullying that vietnam was engaging in in the region it's an old history but

it's a border disputed has nothing to do with the kind of vain adventurism of fascism whatsoever there's nothing comparable to that in the history of communism not even the invasion of

afghanistan whi was

by far the most controversial in the communistic world then you say that marxist leninist put up a front

of real continuity but they twist everything

only in order to fulfill what they want it to be but you haven't actually engaged with the content of what marxist leninist want

hasn't occurred to you that what marxist leninist want is in fact

to maintain fidelity with that original

brilliance

h

and that original revolutionary insight

mm

that began with marks that is what marks us leniness

and ultimately so far as theory is concerned the want

mm

uh anyway um

should i continue or

his

his back hold on

was

and it says you to the devices that connected ths you just did

but

um

i can't pull you in if you don't um fix whatever it is he's

that

below there

um i don't know if we should just

hop right into the queue and the h you can keep going he can probably hear you but um

i don't know what's going on with this oh wait there he is again now

it's not working

i don't know what you're doing

it's not working out whatever it is

and

i don't know maybe we should just hop into the q and a and let him figure this out sure i guess as a concluding remark i'll just say thats far as i'm concerned that

marxism is not as as stalin pointed out marxism is and marxism lenism by extension is not a dead letter it's not a dead substance and it's not a

dead collection of texts

marxism is a living essence and it doesn't exist

to conform to some kind of a

and i guess talmudistic textualism or textual purity

it exists to relate to the material world in a specific way the reasons for which

and relates to something much more fundamental about the encounter humanity has with modernity as a whole

so that's what i'll say

okay hopefully he'll be able to figure this out mey find the questions that are directed to you um al right so here's one that was for both of you guys um is there any use in reading anarchist theorists such as goldman buck

con in crop

dick i don't even know how to say some of these names from this is from oh bandit see if i can pull that comon upcause i don't even know what these names are

uh in my view uh

there is value in reading almost anyone but in terms of one's priorities i don't think one will gleam

much insight

from these thinkers but for historical reasons

it shouldn't hurt to read them

um let's see for has can you elaborate on your claim that fascist

our hired thugs for big banks and businessmyo

mal

well yes the historical connection between

bastism

phenomena of fascism and the terrified was of their respective countries in relationship

to

the emergence of communism is well established

and um

a but specifically it's the relation to the military industrial complex

that i think is essential

hm

from we need critical thinking this is for reuls and he asked who did you vote for

i did not vote

can

and another question for both of you what are your thoughts on national bullsit

thes

so i don't know and foreverws i have always regarded national bolshevism

within russia as it emerged as a form of petite bourgeois anarchism as a form of almost a

ultra leftism i think bread tube has much more in common with national bolshevism than

we infared were

marxist lennons ever have had

allright sltm

um

marxist lenon sorry national bolshevism historically

originally started with a guy called eisenberg who was a

it was a

jewish law academic and

he was a member of the bourgeois party

and the reason why he was called that originally is because he advocated

that the german empire should ally with the soviet union against the west during

that

during the great war

up

that obviously didn't happen

but

later on it would manifest itself with

patel and nkish and nikish we members of the

think it was the

it was like their version of the sokdm party and they got ousted

for being too radical

and

both of them advocated worker councils running the economy and they considered that

the only way a proletariat could take over was through a socialist revolution which would have to be nationalist

and

we i don't have a super positive view of them though personally

it you also have like a russian variant that itn't really manifest much ideologically and then litmanov later on

who was this

an anarchist

uh really if you look at im and really have a real ideology which is why

dodgan left the party

so from many dog fsult in why do you support fascism over marxism

uh i sort of i support fascism because i looked more into

gentila which is like the

a neo he gelian interpretation

like uh

that's my main reason for going into it i'm also pretty

well some people call me an an economicsperg out of the crowd to hang out with as i like corporatism a lot so

that's my main reasons

prior to ideologically i was probably more of a conservative like pale like patrick buchanan back in like two thousand and sixteen but i didn't

it's a long ideological development

for me

can

from g sneed to has thoughts on stalin's anti semitism doctor's plot

i don't actually the historian grover for has actually clarified

in the past

these context of this doctor spat

there was a surge in anti semitism in this period in time in this history of the soviet union

but this roughly corresponds to the

the aftermath of the the nazi occupation and invasion so it

it's possible that it should be investigated to what extent this has spread anti semitism within the soviet union

so far as stalin's a personal views on jews i cannot speak much on a personal level but

is for if we're talking about anti semitism as a historical phenomenons a public phenomenon

as a political phenomenon there is no evidence of

any uh anti semitism on the part of uh

stalin

i do want to come in for a second and soviet union anti semitism was actually condemnable condemnable by death

in the soviet union

and

the accusation of anti semitism is mostly thrown at him because israel aligned with the united states and

united states

department of homeland security has this weird definition where if you're like an antizionist you're an an uh you're like a anti semite which doesn't really hold any water

my opinion

that

sorry like i know it was a question for you haz but

thank

oky so from frank she to ls and the ultan consider china and the soviet union to be facet

to be fascist

no i said they have i had they had elements that i liked that i would say they're closer to me ideologically but i still consider them like a

paradoxical position

uh

as far as like countries go i do support china iran syria russia

venezuela and north korea

those like the only countries i would stand in the modern context

there's also such like a uh

gaddafi remnant military group in

libya that i i also like

that the united states has been trying pretty hard to get rid of

so from frankshi does hawes have any specific examples when leftcos directly supported fascism

ah actually

i believe there is an example in the nineteenh thirties i forget his name so you'll have to forgive me there but

there was actually a left com who said that the

nazism would be preferable is less of a threat

ah to the proletariat then bos of his

something like that along those lines so actually there is a

there's actually an example and obviously people in my chat are saying

portigo but i'm not sure if he he

i'm not i'm not su i mean i suppose

uh but uh within this uh i geest no i yea

i bord to go

lh sorry

left communism historically has always been a very marginal phenomenon but

to the extent that we can discern its historical significance in the on nineteenth thirtyes

athsa left communist intellectuals whether knowingly or not

were ultimately aligned with fascism at the time

against the soviet union they both the fascists and the left comms belong to the same

historical a period and we're both reactionaries of regard

to the dissolution of this

period

ya uh

the accusation against bordia is when he called it a revolutionary movement but the context for that he was arrested

prior to

basically beaten and held a gunpoint to call fascism a revolutionary movement so like it was kind of more like you're going to die re going to call us revolutionaries so

it's kind of an unfair criticism to put at border gua because like border gua

that was

besides being anti fascist he was anti soviet union too

th

um alright so

from comrade the bolton he's for has

so what were the material conditions that gave rise to the construction of the majestic oosnian pyramids

it's just a tol it's a troul question of course it is cause why wouldn't it be

alright

keep going um

form uncle thomas

heir says

if stin wasn't a red fascist then why was the jewish anti fascist league dissolved or were they zionist in his opinion

that was i don't see why it is beyond the realm of possibility to entertain the view that they could have indeed

had zionist affiliations but even if they didn't

i'm not sure what's the significance of the anti fascist league is after the historical defeat of fascism

h so i'm not sure how the dissolution of the jewish anti fascist league is evidence

that stalin is a fascist moreover

i

at most you can maybe attempt fail in doing so but attempt to argue that it's evidence stalin was an anti semite

and i don't see the connection inherent connection to fascism

cam

g a corbor of says can we all just agree we hate liberals and the left coms is the worst insult we can hurl at each other

ca

um

let's sae

what else we got here

n

the two ones we jotted down all right so from uh comrade vulten

uh to sualton

marx analyzed existing systems to inform his writing on socialism and communism

why are you more dogmatic

about i rl socialist impleitations than even

marx himself

i mean i'm dogmatic

about anything

and so like as far as like political theory goes if i don't see

iral organizations relating to what political theory says to me it just seems more like a political program which is which i

wouldn't necessarily agree with

h

i do have problems with some historical

like fascist regimes too for that reason but uh

that that's my overall view

and like somebody can call me dogmatic if they want to but

that

theory is dogmatic it's dogmatic i guess i

call me dout if you want

ho

so for mr smooth to haws ands ol

what a what are your explanations for both tinkys and fascists supporting bashar all assad regardless of their conflicting opinions towards each other

uhuh

sorry i don't need to

ya go n not go ahead okay

ah in my view skepticism toward the narrative about the

or in syria is shared by all

anti establishment forces

it's not just the so called fascist

and tankes its libertarians

it's a whole lot of other people too it's pretty much everyone who rejects the mainstream liberal

narrative on the matter now

if some of those people

and call themselves fascists or whatever what business is that as far as

the real substance of the matter is concerned that it's just people outside of the mainstream

who are sceptical toward what the institutions and mainstream media of our society

are saying about

the war in syria

i would say haws is right and another point i'd want to bring up

anybody that would trust the united states especially after many of a many

gay ops against many different countries to actually have an invasion of them

and destroy the countries and rape the people and bomb the people

uh i believe with like with the internet nowadays you can pretty much see a lot of it just lies

like uh the white helmets for example in syria where they put up the myths that assad gased his own people which has been refuted by all kinds of alternative media

it's just it

the the u s state department it's

people

believe the propaganda but like

people who actually

know what happened historically when we went to the middle east and it didn't

work and it created chaos and

all kinds of problems can pretty much see that it's just a continuation of the same problem

m

um

from mao

t has what was mark's ethnic background do you know his birth name

a obviously mark it's no secret to anyone that marx was a jew you came from a jewish family

that had converted to a

christianity

and

but

so

it was no secret to anyone and

his birth name ah

wow it's kind of embarrassing but i don't think i can recall it

yeah i don't think i can reclak was mordecai think yeah yeah yeah

from stockholm to hars what about stin's pedophilia

it's a completely

baseless and completely fabricated claim about stalin and his time at a certain

settlement in siberia and we can now see that the claim has no historical basis and cannot in any way be

verified that he impregnated a thirteen year old girl

a it sounds like a completely made up

a ridiculous story

um did we do this one for results you believe in the labor aristocracy do you deny did we do that one and writing down

i don't think he did it

i mean as far as like uh

i actually don't

know you mean by labor aristocracy you knows alll

i mean uh infrared sorry said lt my own name stupid uh it's uh just a mean it's a it's a

is it to me okay oky do you guys knock it off um okay see what we got here

um from pcrats a tsult can you talk about china's economy being influenced by the nazis

uh

i believe that's

mostly directed at them because of a appropriating

carl schmidt

i do know that they have like state trade unions which uh

function similar to like the german labor front but they're kind of different because they have them for every industry in occupation

and

they're also controlled by firms and then there's also cooperatives wich theazis didn't have cooperatives there was

cooperatives in fascist italy but

i wouldn't say they're completely similar because every country that

has done a form of corporatism actually has done a different

like even

m

the south korean dictator general park chunki he did it through

three committees one on industry finance and agriculture that were controlled by a

good

right

intelligence agency that would basically view all

occupations and

create central planning

and the

many different examples of it but i wouldn't say it's similar to like what happened in nazi germany

seems like a good question for i i just uh to add one thing um

just to clarify

the german conservative revolution intellectuals and karl schmidt there is nothing inherently

nazi even fascist about them so thisy should be

clarified

time

so from the eighties wolf and open question for both give examples of the biggest lies regarding our history writings about the soviet union

im has you want to go first

uh sure i suppose uh

the

w

one of the biggest the b biggest lie told about the soviet union was that it was a country that

was never able to accomplish or achieve anything

oh

anything in terms of the well being of its own population and that it was responsible for the deaths

of for

hundred hundred million people or some

ah the hollda more

m

um

from gary g how does ulton define fascism

i mean fascism for me ih if we're talking like ideologically it's a form of uh actual it's actualism taken from gentile

apply to nationalism and cynicalism which uh cynicalism is basically the uh

organization of the corporate state

that's how i would define it

a

national socialism would say a bit more distinct because it's based more on existentialism which is like a biological essentialist justification

for for

the same economic model but the intrinsic

philosophical foundations different

huh

um alright so from meal to alt

you're ok with doing away with tradition and christianity to bring about your fascist vision

what culture do you envision in this technocratic fascist society

i mean it for me i

as far as like

society goes i think the

society should be extremely militaristic and organ organized ali likeke the military and as far as like a

uh new people

i believe that people should

be made into what gentile called an ordinary class which everybody is a worker and everybody is a soldier

and it should be an advent grade culture which is h

break

kind of what you saw early on and

france with a circle prorude

h with s sorels association with them very briefly and this carried on over to the futurist movement and then germany the expressionist movement which hitler suppressed

to

um

see here

to with this one uh

pen question forsult is it true that hitler hated people ok no ok i'm done with your crisis questions you guys are off that's it surprised there was no

big chunks mems that seems to me like everybody is mem about me

i hate them so much ok so i guess we can probably do closing statements since that asshole got you guys questions done so yeah sultan you want to go first

uh i mean i think we had a pretty good discussion and like i originally told haws i wanted to have just like a casual

conversation about this not like a super hardcore debate

so that would just respectfully disagree i guess and

i don't mind having being called a dogmatic if it means uh

if

i

what i think if it interprets what the fe

theoretical

ah relations are

and

at the end when i did cut out i do want to say that most of the points i jammed pack haard for through it was me just trying to respond to prior points i didn't

mean to like overwhelm you of with like

in statements as

uh

other than that i think this is a pretty good conversation and i hope everybody enjoyed it that's really just my ending statements

uh yeah i uh i'm glad we were able to uh keep it more or less respectful and uh it was a good uh

conversation

and i suppose i'll concludeed by saying that i think a big shift

yeah

's happening in the way

in the sphere of thought i think it

the older majerny

in the old majornity we create some kind of original

purity some kind of original substance

which in the material world we have to live up to but i think now

there's a shift in that the meaning of

the old words and the meaning of the old intellectuals

is being proven in what happens in reality itself

so uh

we infrared want to be

part of that

um all right yeah thank you guys both for coming on we do have the poll up in our community section on our youtube page so you guys can go vote on who you think uh w the debate leave a comment

with any constructive criticism you guys have no asshole comments

um but yeah thank you guys again for coming on we do have a

busy week so if you guys don't know our schedule it's on our twitter page or in our discord so make sure you guys are join in that and um todd you got anything before we close this down

nh thanks for coming on guys really appreciate it

good talk yeah

i am going to drop the discord link in the chat so you guys if you're not in it make sure to join it and if you haven't subscribed do that but

other than that i guess we will see you tomorrow night at

eight p m eastern big papa fascists will be debating dylan burns on whether or not

we should have l g bt q in our media

so make sure to come check that out

um then i guess

and i

oh what do i do

we're back

oh shit i forgot aterin on

la

ok guys we're back

thank you blaze for the twenty five what a man thank you do appreciate a lot

appreciated a lot dude

play donated twenty five dollars

thank you dude

yeah the debate just ended

oh shit

a

ah damn dude

we're going to have more guys we're going to have more probably more on the politically provoked too we're going to have like a lot more

i think bos the ot is next

we're going to debate bostiat next

um

yeah

i just wish i would have come prepared with like quotes and sources and shit but i really didn't even know we were going to debate about i didn't even know

uh i didn't even watch the video criticizing me so like i didn't

i don't know what it was interview about

the bosnian that set up to the folkup

allright guys we're goinga

we're going to check the red it

yeah we're going to take the redit

ah

let's do the

alright let's see

yacoub's origin story

don't worry he's just a nerd

oh good

oh shit

m

let's see what is this

people for bernie

what

bernie bucking tweeted that

you're aware he's homophobic transphobic

he failed to condemn leak tapes of one of the congressmen clearly belittling democracy

it doesn't believe in a free trade nor international trade

wants to com skate private property and doesn't believe in free press right

i'm surprised they tweeted that though that's fucking crazy

oh thank you carpathian slaughter with the five five dollars

another w

verreat is rising

appreciate it a lot man thank you so much

thank you so much

yeah i was going to cover this

what

i was going to cover this

but

we were doing the debate today so and i got caught up today just doinganother shit

but

oh god dude yeah so here's the funny thing

so let me tell you something funny about what this going on

the young turks had a strategy they're going to ignore jimmy dor right by but jimmy dor thank you so much sovereign appreciate it

mm

and thank you stunn and boy appreciate it

but jimmy dore rose so fast that they just

just like how bread tubes attacking tankys there attacking jimmy dore not

and now anna is saying that

a jimmy dore made

supposed sexual comments about her

uh and you know what here's what i'm going to say about this i'm going to say it maybe i'll elaborate more maybe like later

but i'll say this about it right

should people say what jimmy dore did no you shouldn't

but jimmy dores a boomer he comes from that cringy kind of boomor whatever culture

ah hold on

nefarious brown donated ten dollars

i learn something new after every debate haha thank youi faries brown appreciated it appreciate the time

and i think a lot of these boomers genuinely just don't know how creepy they come off as

and they just think it's normal to like talk about

likeight

for example like their coworkers skirts and shit

and obviously like for us we know that super like weird and just not normal to do

but they come from a different time where apparently they considered that

normal

but you know jimmy dore is not a sexual predator he's not a like a you know harasser or any it's not what he's

that that's not his perspective that's not like where he's coming from you know

and

she tried to blackmail him over that

is he commented about her skirt once and he was like

something she was wearing like a short skirt to work and he like made a comment like

wow a nice work skirt

something like that you know just some dumb shit like that

and

he did that and she fucking the and so let me tell you the story

right

yeat he just said something cringed the story was anna was going after an anti war journalist someone like that

and jimmy was defending the guy

so anna d ms him and blackmails him basically about this comment he made while he was working

what does that fucking have to do with the topic though

that you know that's like

yeat aaron mate what does that have to do with aaron mati why is she bringing this up

lena it would be one thing if jimmy dore was making an accusation and saying like

oh yeah anna commented on my shorts once

then she would be like oka well you did that to me too and it'd be relevant but what is fucking

you know it's so disgusting because

anna and sank

have an iteological issue with

ah jimmy they have a political and etiological issue with him

and

you know it's under the cover of that that they're like going at it you know loud was watch the video you the story the story about that was followed by an apology card you wrote me for degrading harassment

ah

and a casparian

used to dress when i worked there

unbelievably inappropriately for a newsroom

she looked like she was going to rad

the skirt one time she came into the newsroom say with the skirt so short it wasn't a pencil skirt it was like a fluffy one too but so what is it not sak what is it jank

is it sank or is it

thank

what's his fucking name how do you say it

jang

okay jeng

sure

that she bent over in front of me and i literally saw her ass

and her thoughts she's wearing a thong i literally saw everybody saw

and i go hey a nice newsskirt

and everybody laughed

like they laughed louder than i thought they would

and so it humiliated her

she got humiliated in the middle of the newsroom

and i did it and i felt bad at that time we were friendly

and i was just

busting her ball

right for dressing like that it'su

youre going to bend over and show me your ass i think that's a little

i'm not offended but i think that's a little risque

wretgt if i did that i walked around show e but

so when she did so when i did that so she got really mad she got you know she got a humiliated her face turned red

she tried to insult me back and it just

fell flat and she looked

you know bad

and i felt bad for her i didn't fight i didn't want to make her feel that but i just want to make a little joke

and i

all i said was agt and nice and who skirt and everybody

in the newsroom because everybody saw how inappropriate she dresses sh's a dress

and everybody saw it

and i

so that's why i got such a laugh and she was so humiliated

so i felt bad for her

so the next day i wrote her a card saying hey i'm sorry i won't do that again

that was inappropriate you don't have to worry about that happening again i won't comment on your clothes

anymore

i should have said no matter how fucking ridiculous

i mean you'll stop commenting on her thong

on her thought

that i can see

max where would you like to take the conversation

i mean uh yeah i mean yeah s he just did cringe

and apparently that's like

okay guys i'm going to admit something to you

i woke up and i was too late for this but

i watched this whole debate between sultan and sansoy

and

oh my god dude it was

sold on just

holy shit duty hit it out of the water dude

i've never seen somebody get so wreked

dude i've never seen somebody get so wrecked

and you know the fuckin funny part

i would say but like sultanan

defending the position that he did

like you have to be so incompetent to just not be able to like

what you will do is you will go you'll go into a topic

and then you will pick up one thing that you don't like like you dot watch it on stream

i don't think so because i watched it earlier today

i watched the whole thing that the say that sow us highlight someone has to make a video highlighting it i can't s i don't

is

proof that i believe i thing that has nothing is completely disconnected to the conversation that we were having

this isn't it is proof though its proof thatough it's proof though but you can't point to

i find that's a lot of tof so far you find ot ch love i'm so i'm so proud of you what proof i've sent i've sent you offets i've given you examples you a like it's go s you don't even understand how the d c police work so i don't know what the fuck gt all about again again you literally like you a fucking better like just like that you have to have like a source next to words i don't understand how you can read all this theory and like

le i've had i've had a channel ive week and i've multi us and know for a week ont it relevant et it relevant man i love how i love how as soon as it's as soon as it gets the point where i don't pay o that you don't have any actual idea you don't you start calling you this idea you have do i don't give a fuk i mean yeah i'm sure you don't give a fuck the fact that you're i don't get tirem nothing about youet a t country it's funny

is sometimes actually right

like the guy to legit is actually just bad at debating dud he's just bad at debating

it's not even trolling dude he's literally just bad at debating it's just so fungy that assassinates pli about is debating

literally he is dude watch the fucking debate and you'll see how bad sansl is it debating he's so bad dude

he does so

he does so poorly dude

sansul brings up like random shit like he for example sansul is like

yeah like the cossacks

in russia

allra

are the same thing as the fucking prowdboys

and sultan was like dude a you being racist because the cossacks aren'an ethnicity you know you can't just say that they're an e they're not a political organization

they're an ethnicity you know

the cossack yes

so it's like he's so like uninformed

and then what's hilarious is that

sultan doesn't live in america he doesn't live in america okay

he lives in a foreign country

and sultan was lecturing sansal about how america's government works and sultan was right

it's it's like even if so on was like completely uninformed

that's ok because you dodn't even live in america like

you know that you could sa like sansol doesn't understand like dude

sanso how much do you know about how the fucking ah

you know how the police and how the government works in lebanon you don't know anything about that

sultan doesn't even live in your country dude and he was really lecturing you about

how it works in america you know

like way more informed

and

sansal was saying things like

he was saying a lot of dumb shit dude he was like

he was like

oh yeah in america we have democracy cause ah

you can run on the you can run on the democrat ticket

and you can you can call out the democrats and you won't get blocked

but burney did that and they rigged it against him twice like what a horrible example you gave you know

but anyway

it is better that like you issued legitimate abandon this

and even then you and house you're comparing me to as i literally destroyed us

has destroyed i destroyed hous liter and itally destroyed even sportantly

that's how bad you are to the flucking debate you just you should just like a gaming flucking stcheme or something

he's so confused because he literally thinks so he thinks like i may i h

put sultan up to this and like

sultan is like in my colt or something like he doesn't even know where this guy came from

i i don't know in what way that i

yeah but i don't give it i don't even know if this is you b this is your li kind of like you you're just soy youre just soay you just soy all of your political views are soy what does that mean to you even your computer it doesn't like it's fucking cashing on a t me o making b c loo like what it is aling o to your b c cashes

bed four

goly sin

oh god dude oh my god pure sigma energy dude pure sigmaergy oh shit

and

oh god

ohly like

where's the full debate

uh it's on sansls chen i see

someone upload that debate on youtube if you upload the debate on youtube we'll watch it on stream like tomorrow or something

upoad someone upload that whole debate

don't we're not going to go on sansul's channel and give him views don't go on his channel and give him views

someone uploaded it on youtube and we will watch it onstream

do you deny the labour aristocracy

yeah out of god

what nancy pelosi who described six hundred dollars

as significant stimulus for working families

has a net worth of more than one hundred

million

tit your massage and he is showing

what

p the fok ow

literally what a fog

this is a pair of anglos pushing lab leak theory

so i know you know i it's really funny i know things like uh you are banned on twitch and a lot of other conspiracy theories are banned

but this stuff isn't banned you can actually say whatever you want about china on twitch

um

despite the harm that it's going to do

um you know in terms of

creating racist resentment against chinese people

and all that kind of stuff that's ok

um i'm actually not in favor of censoring anything i i if i you know if i could

decide

nothing political would be censored

on any platform

but i just you know it'd be nice if there was consistency you know

it'd be super nice if there was consistency

if there is consistency because there isn't

you know

but and there can't be consistency right because you know it's just not possible

but when you start censoring people you've got to start being consistent right

a

f the're u on military game we i don't think we caun talk about anything

you can see but yeah you're not the so conspiracy theories about america i don't think are really allowed all that much

here

but you can actually say whatever you want about china

m

and i'm not saying that i want people to start censoring talk about china

i just wish it was consistent and that you know nothing was censored politically

but

you know it is what it is

it is what it is angles on mud definitions

yeah

herderian can proceed to build applying the mathematical method he first gives us

following the ancient euclid example a series of definitions this is all the more convenient

oh

that

what is to be proved with their help is already partially contained in them yea true

i don't know why this guy has a soy flare though

san

jenk likes beastiality and is o k with the end word yeah i mean if you want to air jimmy's dirty laundry

sorry dude the t y t have way more dirty laundry than jimmy does so

i've seen this video so many times posted here

what is it

this is actually not true believe it or not

these people do not say this

these people are super obsessed with like trusting the science and all that kind of these people are really here

i've never seen someone that looked like this that wasn't also here

so believe it or not

oh

fascism in america

to so i can think of no better authority than the webster's new world dictionary

the notion of pride

berean und hek

so according to the webster dictionary

america is a fascist country

yeah

so this is the worth of these definitions

as they're being used on the internet

you can even apply them to america that's how fucking

much you shouldn't be treating definitions as something essential

the fuck is this

it's not the netherlands

what

what do you do

su

but

china's great green wall nice

reacting when scrolling through libs of tick tok

what we need another war

marxism psychiatry and capitalism

cool

okay alright let's see if there's anything else

on the read it

any anything else on read it

any ridlers

any rereditors

any readitters in the chat

mind guys it's ready

great

is israel

oh good

here

oh the hungarian soviet republic

oh yes

i ha nothing else on the dit

there's nothing else on the

read it

ito workplace democracy

wow

now

what the big is this lo

look at this some one claiming to represent the new left and wants to step on me like this it's boken

do look like this proogram doing good

ah he blocked me on twitter

i

sure it's merely a coincidence that the birthrate in shin jong fell

wello i've already addressed why it fell or why it could have fell

you're right it's just a western narrative it is

if fuccing is

there's no evidence of concentration camps anywhere in china

yeah

so does the pogan have a response

doubted

i highly doubt he has a focking response

i highly doubt he has a response

that

i leave

highly dont

i lead that

i don't i just don't

have reason

not to believe it

you know

i' have reason not to believe it

um

hope again

i would see

oh my god

whatook is that

the fuck is that

trecksh

think pogan blocked me as well yeah

should i even debate destiny right now

i can probably yeah i can

yeah i can just

what's dessy doing

they'll just debaate him right now

what's he doing

he's watching wrath of jodi

he's watching that true crime shit is it just memirrors like i'm bored about

that that i know it's the metal on twitche and everything

but i'm super bored by it dude i don't like watching it i just don't find it content

what you guys think i don't find it really i really don't find it content

it's really resident sleeper but

it's getting destiny like five k view so i don't think he's going to debate me because this is getting views actually

oh

so yeah

he doesn't really need me right now

he doesn't actually need me

um

what on

b it b

breb

but the

the didn't

what i have it for

did boh ever respond to boxing yeah no he didn't he didn't i messaged him

and i said you know i expect by tonight you have a response and last night you didn't respond he didn't respond at all

i guess he doesn't want to box

like he said

he said he wanted to but apparently he doesn't

maybe he's scared maybe he's not

there could be a lot of reasons you know

when it comes to boxing guys

i'm not going to be as cocky when it comes to boxing when it comes to debating

for anyone i don't care if the

someone out of shape like wash

or even someone who's like a toothpict

you know that's a different

thing guys you know i'm not going to fucking like

you know i talk a lot of shit when it comes to debating

because like that's a

airtight certainty

what

you know back in the days of ancient greece and shit

when people compete in sports no one ever thought it was down to u

a thought whoever wins has the god's favor

right

so

i have a kabib approach when it comes to that shit which is basically

you know i'm not a

i'm not a smack talker and i don't talk a big game

when it comes to that kind of shit because

you know it's h

there's

you got to be humble when it comes to that shit you know

and

it is what it is but i'll do it i'll fuck and do it

i'll definitely do it but you know

it's more of like a

what happens happens you know

i'm not going to like talk shit on the internet

about it

you probably don't know how to cardio

you probably don't know how

cardio heavy boxing is

yes i do i know it's very cardio heavy

m

but yeah that's what i was going to say is like i definitely

i think i would only need

two weeks to train

ah

i don't want to do more than like two weeks to a month

train

um

yeah

i mean to be real with you guys like let's say someone said box hassan

i don't think i would accept that offer because i wouldn't be confident in my ability to do that

m i just wouldn't

but there's people i would box

then i think i would have a chance against

and yeah

you would smoke a cun

i mean how tall are you

or how big are you i should say

dylan burns

is actually a boxer or what

really

is he really a boxer

you have channel points guys we have shit you can do with channel points but

my shit is expensive you can

hom on stream you can force me to play shit

can ask me a question you can force me to show my power level

you can do a lot of things if you get a hundred and twenty thousand points you can endles stream

if you get one hundred and fifty thousand

show power level here you go

there it is that's what it does

show power level

you're saving up to end stream

this mother fucker's going to do that like when i have like

when i have like the most important stream of the summer

he's going to end the stream

you know why i have that because somebody who watches me that much

i just would feel would not do that to be

but i'm trusting you

i'm trusting you toll be able to do that

new launder channel points with

channel points betting yeah let's do some bets what can we better a some let's do some bets right now

what can we do what can we do some bets on

what can we do some bets on

oh you know what i have an idea that's not going to be that popular

what

i want to do it anyway

it would be gary'smd n p c battles

gary's mot n p c battles like

you bet on who you think is going to win

you guys want to do it

you guys wanta do it

i don't know if it's going to be popular but i

let's do it

i want to do it for fun anyway you know just for fun

let's just do it anyway

the first one we're going to do is a

godzilla verse mecca godzilla

i think that's one weill do

do you think that yugoslavia's foreign policy was complex

obviously it was complex

you have left for dead two installed already yes but that didn't fix my problem i don't know what the problem is

with a partical effect but i'm not going to even try to solve it

hopefully the jit doesn't crash you know

hopefully this shit just doesn't crah

because it might just crash

is it that then there

isn't then there

godzilla is gonna win

well see

well see

mecca godzilla will win

well see

hello ad and has feeling better for yesterday

yea i think so

i think so

you know

and so we're all fighting you know every one of us is fighting in some kind of way you know

but you know

gotta keep fighting

makea godzillas to try hard

excited for whenever the iranian revolution article comes out that i promise that

bosnia okay jesus christ

i'm thinking about doing some rios tomorrow what do you guys think

wrial tomorrow

i'm thinking about it

if tomorrow iss sunny let me see

but see yeat tomorrow suppos to be pretty sunny

so i'm thinking about doing some iro

ye i'm thinking of do an iro

each stream won

i don't know

when i

when i

pine beach

friends

oz is going to touch grass

going to touch your

a

kidding i'm sorry i'm kidding i'm kidding

i'm kidding i'm kidding

sorry

completely uncalled for

completely uncalled for

i apologize

u

you guys do what happened to caleb

i think you tube's censoring him

they're censoring his uploads' is super weird so this is what happened

youtube was like a

they're like so we're going to start manually approving your videos now

i wonder if they're going to do that to us i haven't tried to upload anything

on the channel let me try to do that

some time later

and see what's going on if they're doing that to us too

because he's involved with rt

yeah it's gotta be

it's got to be something like that

literally george lopez nineteen ninety eight

ok

let me see bets

how do i do this uh

how'd you do bets agan

points

it slash

slash

prediction

ok slash prediction

i start prediction

how come one godzilla

mecca god zore

submissions period i'm going to do five minutes

named their didiction

start prediction

not it

should haz appear in a c p i meeting

it was mentioned in the state department article i heard about that

i heard about that shoot

everyone's voting for mecca gonzilla but you guys are really being stingy you're not really voting

with much of your points you know you're using like

not a lot of your points you guys know you can choose the amount of points you want to bet right holy shit

somebody just bet twenty

thousand of their points

oh my god you guys are fucking going all in

oh see it

you still have time guys you still have time

i can't see the bet i'm on phone

you think god's is a gang

i don't know about that one

hatnoon

how to bad

just viewers in your region can't bet points that is super fucking weird

so far it's tied

between who's going to win

all in

i don't know about that partner

i don't know about that

i won't stop bothering you till you do ten pushups

i should do push ups

i should do push ups

i should do push ups you're right i should do them

but i won't

frienks

i should do hem but i'm not gonna

mecca for the wind

weak arms

what are you fucking talking about

mecca is a cope i

agree

somewha

somewhat landian ai

congrasss

congus you just said something

mek a cope

so let's just i should have do a third prediction that it's just going to crash

that's a fockon doing

if you push up pokey will notice me

really

okay mab

hoky ma

robots air

wow look what ninety thousand coins are being bt on godzilla

holy

fox

watch like you guys

someone's going to be

you know jack the loaded with points by the end of this

i'm waiting for this shitp to load right now that's what's going on

right now i'm just waiting for this shp to load

um

this game literally takes like five years to load

you went all in

it's going to crash

i sure hope not

let me see if i can do this

it'd be nice if i could just like overlay it like this you know you can

you really can't

you've gota do like the gameor shit

i do it like this

fortunate

got to do it like this and like ever no one likes it like this you know

is what it is

actually

now yet

why is my ship frozen

bum b bum bm bum by bm

one can godzilla easy

twelve cakan gods

mecca godzilla

where's the prediction where do you go it's the predictions done

ok

predictions are done

now let's see who's going to win

let's see who's goninga win

afterroll

okay

first of all this is the first thing i need to do

is

and b cs ignore players

then

second thing i have to do is go here i'm going to

spawn

due to ongoing complaints about file size

ye i don't care

m p cs

a

godzilla versus kg

let me find it

godzilla versus kong is right here

here's godzilla here's mecha godzilla oh shit you gotta go superhigho ok this

okay

is not capturing on

yeah it's capturing now

ya

here we have them fighting fk who's going to win oh shit godzilla's mouth's taken a blow again you can see godzilla's houth in the left top left you can see oh shit

oh what oh see

how fucking big he is compared to oh shuit i felt oh my god what thouh

oh god godzilla is rapidly losing out hows meca godzilla doing look at mec godzills health compared to godzilla do i think yeah i think meca godzilla might just win this one he's terror

rising the city

oh god this is does not looking good should i help him i would have to uh

i don't know what i i can do so i could get in the bansheet

oh fuck what did i do

let's on the banch oh god what's going on yeah let's get in the bansch what happened to my vehicle

just flew the fok

oh god why is it flying so we're we're going near the battles dangerous territory oh god dangerous territory guy

i don't know wo's going to godzilla has half his outh gone i don't know hows going to end up ok he's in the building fk look at mak the godsills he oh god this

looks like it's over before it began we need should we call a third day a x moking oar is that cheating beause there is someone who could end the madness there is someone who could turn the tide as cheating ok f f i need to get the king caong one i didn't get the king i need to get that

and he uh just see oh god it's looking ugly

oh his tail has hit me

big fat bug oh god look at these explosions in the sky oh

oh don't mind me

no pucket crash

the game fucking crashed

what did i fucking do to deserve that

the game literally crashed

ok mecca one mecca fucking one it's object he lost no health

and godzilla was just slowly being killed

so mecca fucking wan dude

he fallkon on that

you on that

there's no you know there's no way around that dude mecca godzilla

one that shit dud he fukon one

am

kind of thing

yeah he won that shit dude he fucker won that shit

we're going to start up another one and do another bet but let me do a prediction

proclaim a judgment

a choose outcome

yeah mecea godzilla wan dude

complete prediction

how guys get your money get your money get your money

get your money get your money

itet your money

get your money

get that money get that money

okay it's okay get that money

get that money

you guys want to do another bt

i think we'll do another bt

am

you're rich

you redeemed let me onstream

oka a two can come onstream

but i have to increase the price for that i realized

it's like too many people are going to come on

what

the the game is blocking the fucking screen so i'll have to wait

wait a second

what's mugan mu gan what is that

i how many channel points did this fucking get you guys how many channel points do you have

holy shit

how many channel points do you guys have

very got

who has three hundred k

he been foalking endless stream

what

he can literally end the stream

oh see

this guy can end the stream whenever he wants

that's dane that's too much power dude

way too much power

that's your have

you have way too much power

this may have been a bad idea

you might just be dooed

i'm going to increase the parcking price for endy street to like five hundred k

no one should have that power do

but let's bring'

i'm going to bring it to on here and it

what haveup do

whats good bro

i'm broke now

oh see

how much points do you have

only got like three hundred brucks

i

you have what

i only have like three hundred

oh so ya you spent it all

put like one thousandth on the air

on the bed

but i never got to payout and i put it on meck

open on the minute

omugen is a two d fighting engine

ah okay mugen

that's

that's what the chat is sing

god damn dude i how do i like fix gary's mot so it doesn't crash

it's cause like they were like fighting like buildings and stuff like that like yeah n it's not wy

like

if they're put in like weird positions it's like it makes

no no i think it's cause some shit like

they updated it recently and then also

i don't know

verify the integrity of gam cashe

ah ya i tried that it didn't work

i think i just have to unsub to a lot of shit in the work

workshop

but i don't know what

i o

i bet it for the wrong good ok guys we're going to have a fight pit but this time it's going to be a little bit more small scale so let's see who we should pit against each other ah n p cs us make sure it's going to ignore players

gag more players

's go to n p c's let me see who are we going to fight um

w are we going to have flight

we're going to have

point

um

let's see we're going to have uh this one will be good

but

oh what is this rhino

we're going to have rhino from spider man

w a disabled thinking really quick

and sable thinking

versus

red snoway they're they're going to fight each other but

versus

resident e where the be

versus jill valentine

okay guys

so this is a good fuck and mix up

i want to know

i'm goinga show you guys who's goning to be fighting here

weyre

jill valentine on the one hand

me get out my own weapon

got jill valentine right here

we've got rhino right here so this is what we're going to do

prediction

ok let's see start prediction

who will win

jill valentine versus rhino we're going to give this one just about one minute to start the prediction got it

start the prediction guys

it's your predictions started

going to be over in one minute

you got jill valentine

and rhino

from fuckin spider man

up

seems like rhino's in the lead in terms of bets who's going to win

i don't know all of you guys super confident in rhino

i don't know if you're underestimating

this resident evil character who is very powerful

um

i don't know

do your own peril you know don't let us down right now a losers i've lost everything

yet the losers are going in hard cause they want to fuck and redeem themselves

all right we're going to start this now

ready

oh god was the fun

what the funck was that dude holy shit ok rhino one

prediction

to the outcome

rhyine no ok rhye no one

complete prediction

n rin no one

that was super quick think it was going to be that quick

okay hold disabled thinking

i literally didn't know it was going to be that quick guys i didn't know hey

ah okay well this is going to be interesting more resident evil people

we have mister x

on the one hand

and he's going to go up against

um

let's see

ah this will be good

reddy krueger

a

walking who will win ready ruger mr g

a prediction

start prediction

ready

ruger

mter x

start prediction got it

all right let's see who's going to win got loody freddie look at him bloody freddie absolutely terrifying but the austere no o we have the

find he killed me because i went up to him he was he was i was a bit too close for comfort for mr x is comfort but that's ok all right we're going to back so let me see who's winning

it looks like mr x is in the lead by quite a lot the austere and the austere religious scholar mr x and freddie krueger a despicable piece of shit ok let's start go what the fuck is this

this is not much of a battle itmintedly not much of a battle it appears freddy krueger is incapable of fighting back on es fy looks like mr x is losing how this on's going to be close guys look at this it's this is far from predetermined bee he's doing

you just can't see it because animations bug but he's doing a number on mr x even though mr x is in the lead this is not this is far from over oh wow it looks like rereddy krueger he might be in some trouble but mr x is also los an out at a rapid pace looks like

freddie krueger still losing is youith to come out with the day a sex mockingoug to to defeat mr x he's going to need a miracle at this point he lost about half his housth should i see the next dana white oh look at that look at that it looks like freddy is still losing

who's going to win guys all look looks like mr x is finally at the half health mark freddy he is he is not doing too well he's not doing well at all mr x is ferociously pounding on him oh shit

jesus well that's that guys

etf o indeed

prediction

choose out call mr x one

okay guys

that was mr x

ah you chose wisely for whoever chose him

now we're going to mix it up a little bit and we're going to introduce

a little bit of some chaos to the mix

you see what we're going to do

is we're going to have mister x on the one hand

and on the other hand we're going to have none other

than thee tried and tested

only sha stalin base the five you thank you so much thank you so much we appreciate a lot wehiate a lot

we're going to have where the fuck is it dude where is he

where is he

um

oh here it is marvel

okay here he goes ryanan

we're going to have ryano versus mister x this is going to be a tough one guys

tough one

prediction

start prediction who will win

a right now it's going to be rino against mr x i wonder who's going to win this one

rhino is quite a ferocious

opponent

but then again mister x has proved his mettle against freddy krueger with that finishing move he could just do randomly

so we don't know who's going to win we don't know who's going to it's far from

welere who's going to win this

no one's betting

for mr x not a single point for mr x

no one thinks mr x is going to win

and some people are betting on it some people are betting on it let's see some people are indeed betting on it

uh

some people indeed are betting on it let's see wow

you think mister rex is going to lose

well

i'll tell you those people who voted on mr x if they win they're quite some

astute you know think against the herd ok let the battle begin

bumping out of

y good goya

s

oka rhino is so fucking op it's not even funny rhino is so fucking op it is not even funny

but i have a trick up my sleeve you understand

prediction

e rhino one

but i'm going to ok w's like a tree right

let me tell you rhino might fare well against mister x

but let me tell you

let me tell you something

the whole is a different beast entirely right

so we're going to see who's going to win this one introduce some

some chaos

let's see start prediction

who will win reyinal or

hok

we're going to give this one minute

the bet

but

this is this one i don't i have no idea sometimes i have an idea i have no idea who's going to win this one acuse these are both very powerful

among the most powerful n p c s in the game though you know i have no idea who's going to win this one this is very unpredictable

uh what are you guys choosing it looks like uh hulk is in the lead by a lot right

yeah hulk is in the lead for this one

lk is definitely in the lead

you go to like make like official like tournament it's like and people like like go fight and shit ya

verybody put like all their money on the first one no shit no ho on id spawn hold hod on the spwn again

these two are just itching to go at it look at them taunting each other would you say b i be shit

well you never had a taste for the hole once you settle down little boy you never had a taste for the hole now let me let me have it all right right le me have was all right

alright guys

let's start it

there we go jesus what the funck is that

what he's gone he disappeared just is rhino goneing hino's gone holk wants another fight yeah rhinos rhino's gone i guess haulk one

notn't even like a

then he barely by god dude

toho a

you hauk voters i guess you go fuck you guys keep getting it right

how do i fuckings deceive you as

heycuse you guys have too much money now i got a fucking

find a way for you guys to lose money ok we have

babusca

and

we're going to have a lower stakes battle

between babushka

and ho about this guy now

um

babuska and

uh

the mayor's wife

is oh god look at that name is that to your s

oh abushka versus

a lion

how about that guys

can a babooca take on one line

what do you guys think

prediction

start prediction who will win

babuska or lion

who will win this

on the one hand we have

a babuska

she looks quite powerful with that ax but but this is a lion this is a fully grown lion

i mean this is an adult male

lion

ok this is a old woman ok this is be careful guy i mean justs just an old woman she's she has blear back problems

and this is a fully grown adult

lion

so who will win it looks like everyone's thinking babouska's going to win

i'm not sure

if uh that is a wise choice i literally have no idea

um

the double bluff this is a lion

and an old woman with an axe

ok

well

let's start it and see if you guys are wise

she's fine

i see

so the eight lig

it turns out what a shock a complete shock curveball

that a a an old woman with an axe is in what stop the steeal she lived

what

wait let me see if that's just like the n b c hold on

no what she can die okay we're have to restart that one we're going to have to restart that one that was an error on my part

i did not know

it was it it she did not die she didn't she was not killed the busko was not killed stop the steel yeah ok we're going to have her here and let's start once again

oh

oh no way she did die she did die yeah

look in the top of

le right corner it says she died okay okay okay okay

got ok well what a surprise

the old woman lost to a fully grown adult male lion

ah for everyone who chose the lion congratulations this was a super tough

a choice

now let's see if we can raise the stakes a little bit

how about

we have tiger

there's uh there's no telling there's a saber tunt

tiger

this animal is so powerful that it is extinct

this is an extinct

sabertoth tiger

and this tiger will go up against

none other

oh we have dinosaurs

none other than a

harry potter himself

no okay i'm sorry it's not fair

that's just is not fair

case that

uh a medic

a refugee

its roll

or do a mammoth

no n i'm going to do

meo winters none other than meo winters the one and only psychopathic woman with a chainsaw versus a saber toothed cat so this seems fair so let's start our predictions

start our predictions

ah who will win

mia winters versus a saber toothed

cat

all right guys

let's see who's going to win this one's going to be tough it is far from clear who will be the victor of this this er match far from clear absolutely er unclear who's going to win

i have i have this stick to make sure things don't go out of control this is a wild animal from uh the ice age and this is a um insane person with a chainsaw

it looks like everyone's going in for that sabre toothed cat

that's a lot of money being bet it's a two hundred k being bet

that sabretubed cat o kay i hope you guys are confident in your choice ah but i will say that nea winters is no laughing matter if you've played resonentdle seven you know that she is no laughing matter so let's let the games begin

it looks like this is not doing be a winters is not doing too well the saber to cat has received no damage ok well it looks like

this did not go how i thought it would

and the

bad cat

bad kitty bad look can anything kill this focking thing

h let's try a mossbird

well this could kill it okay it was close to having no health alright

so let's uh oh god okay the think

this is not a fucking fair like you

you guys how much fucking money do you guys have ok now we're going to do more predictions we're going to do more predictions

um

let's see

we have none other then voh

ahh burs his

that's lunch

naughty santa cla nic think

verses

ah

come on let's do let's get something good

something good

none other than

let's see

okay that's too op be

it's way too op be it's way too op

let's see let's choose a worthy opponent for mir vosh we will have hold on srek srek versus mister vosh we're going to put our predictions in now

prediction

who will win

wreck or wash

ah

we just to fat molded

who will win

coming in from coconut island your we have none other you do onet to only coming in from farar awayioner is not going to be happy about this

it's a cool place and they say it gets cold u you're bundled up now wait till you get od but the media man back to difer ing by the hole in the satellite picture the i state is getting pretty thin the waters getting warm so you might as well swim but word's on fire how about yours i like it and i'll never get bored and i'll start

get the show on let the games begin i the games begin a cool place and they say it gets called up you bundled up now wait till you get but the median back to di by the hole in the satellite picture the

telling them i think they need to be closer toh s i can't see anything luck

it's actually pretty close it's super close but the i'm missing particle of back so we can't see what's going on let's seey it's tied

it's tied it's tied it's a place and it's tied it's tied guyss it's pretty tied about

it game you st get the show it's pretty tired it's a cood place and the say it gets cold now wait to you get

it's pretty tiight guys i got strekes moving by a little bit i think

a place looks like right right wash halfway done shrek is also more than shrek is losing by a little bit looks like shrek is losing by a little bit

it looks like it's coming to a close coect is trailing behind

is there a day of sex mok and i was going to say this about yours and i'll never get this was a good plait

shrek is not a last on his last leg sreks fighting hard guys fighting hard is not going to like this

'm not going to like this guy' not going to like this oh god oh god shrek is about to die oh no it's so

oh no shrek no it's over ah and when the smoke clears it this is disgusting this is grotesque um

it looks like uh

ah this is horrible

okay i that was i did not know where the came

let's go back

it looks like

wash was the winner let'sh put this in

choose the this one was close yeah this one was close

it always seems you the second one always seems to win the second enemy always wins like the second guy always wins

you notice that it's always the second guy

um

are we going to disable thinking

uh we're going to do

spider man

spider man it's spider man guys

it's none other than spider man himself and versus darth vader spider man and darth vader

we're goinga see who wins

let's see spider man versus darth vader

spiderman or darth vader

let's see who's going to win this one guys coming in first it's spider man from the sam ramy films gonna cry himself here we have darth vader who is shorter then this is a short darth vader very short

short limbed and short legged darth vader he's coming in with his red famous light saber famous for being luke sky walker's father and here we have peter parker himself who will win let's see how are the predictions coming in

what do the people think

holy shit everyone thinings bader is going to win here we have shrek in the middle of the battlefield hopefully doesn't obstruct too much but schrek looks a little bit disconcertingly happy about his fate he died a happy man that's all that counts ok let the game begin

oh boy holy shit that was the quickest fucking fight yet

look at that guys

choose the outcome

spider man juan

yeah yeah finally you guys are losing points

absolutely beautiful

oka

yes yes yes yes oka let's see let's see what we can do here

o kay this should be interesting

let's go big

we're going to have

a scarfaceed tyrannosaurus wx so big that it takes up most of the fucking arena

verses

tyrant

now this should be easy now stood in it but we'll see

who's gonn to win

predictions

who will win

he rerect

not

tyrant or t

rex

look at this

this is a live tea rex

and

a man who is very tall

he's just waiting for that bell to ring this is a hungry tea rex

and this is a tall man

ah it looks like this is going to be a tough one guys we have no idea who's going to win this

but it just realized something

oh now i know why you guys are predicting so well

you mother fucking cheeters

you walking cheaters dude

you fucking cheaters

now i know why you guys have been fucking getting it holy shit you guys are cheaters

okay we're going to start anyway

but i solved the cheating problem

began began

holy shit not i hope no one gets knocked off here we go now it's really starting

battles really beginning now don is transform oh god you might just throw off the areina

i he gets knocked off he wins holy shit

no he's jumping on for he's jumping in forro the

he's not the he's not ining it there he's dumping it for the kills

the're still fighting for the tyrants made an unwise decision chaseing thats regs it looks like the t rex onan the roman the earth all god he's attacking civilians get rid of this guy

okay

jesus ok well the t rex one

ah

the t rex one i hate to say it but

t rx one

yeah the t wrk's we that

okay

next up

none other than

red skull looks very happy right now little too happy and this guy who will win who stanak or red skull let's see

ooana or red skull

boost the knock

who's gonna win this one guys

it's anyone's guess anyone's best guess sure you going to win i a ising the ba this guy doesn't talk but he looks

pretty angry looks like everyone's voting for wos the not everyone's voting foros the not

let the game began oh know it's not over yet still betting on that strek response yes trek does look a little bit happy it is a bit this

disturbing and disconcerting how happy he looks the mad on his mind all right let's see let's see holy shit this does not look as clear cut as many people thought it would be

oh god who's the knock is actually losing red skull is winning ws the knock is losing this does not look good for the the not fans look at that a surprise turn of events

red skull is doing way better than anyone would have predicted he's got the range ofdvantage he s's ging them from a distance you know it's the not he's got a mini gun but that big guns not doing him anything he's thrown a grenade look at red skulls taken almost no damage either somethings bug or it looks like who's the koc is about to be killed in no time

that red skull he sees prevailing still looks like's the knocks going to be knocked off looks like they are too stupid to realize that they're fighting so you actually have to the is gon to bring good old oose kno back here

this is terrible oh god red skull still has no health takens the knock is on the verge of annihilation

whos the not he's suffering bad looks likes the kno needs to be brought back it's too stupid to remember who is fighting

but this is this is the beating this is quite a beating guys doesn't look good foruth the not do'es not look good forrus to not this is very young oh god maybe you shouldn't know voted for the guy just he big you you guys made this mistake just because this guy's big this is a supervill

from the d c franchise of course he's fucking power you know what did you guys think you thought i going to be a walk in the par this is a major villain from the marvele franchise versus a fucking big brute minor bucking villin butlet's see is red skull and looks like red skull is actually invulnerable

ok well

you choose wisely guys you know the

you thought you knew you thought you had this one in and a

turns out you were wrong you were damn wrong

we're going to have harry potter

a

din harry spawn using a weapon

weapons

n p c weapon override

harry potter with

a gravity hammer

okay thisb

di not work

ah with a lightsabre

jedi potter

you got harry potter right

verses

none other

then

good old babuska

who will win

who will win

this this is not an easy one oh yeah the hooos

go red skull one yeah

yah

prediction

start prediction

who will win

jd i hrry

mader

babousca

who will win

ah

this one's going to be tough

a they are very comparable

very comparable indeed

ah this might be the flip of a coin

this might be on the flip of a coin guys this might be on the flip of a coin

oh god this is

very much not

clear who's going to win there it doesn't look like you know it's it's far from far from known who will win yeah looks pretty evenly split

on the one hand a very old woman with an axe but on the other hand the moist soy ll

on planet earth with a lightsabre

the light sa were it not for the light saver this one this one would be very easy but he has that light sabver so i don't know it doesn't look good for babuska but on the other hand

this is harry potter we're talking about

a this is harry potter we're talking about

i'm surprised the game hasn't fucking crashed holy shit

the bets are almost over and the games are almost about to begin get those bets in guys

the game's about to begin who will win

alright

let the games begin

it looks like there's an immediate problem okay here we go

ok's super quick this is way too powerfulkuy should not be existing

but

you guys saw it harry one

looks like harry potter won as many people predicted he would

harry potter indeed won

uh yeah it do it looks like babuska is not

a very reliable race horse here i we're seeing a consistent

problem with babushka's performance

what is this this is an error sign

okay on the one hand we have

an angry villager

he is super angry look at his face absolutely

um enraged

and on the other hand wait what she's bacd

ya hold on this is a ins this is

very dangerous i cannot get rid of her

buts can i do can i get rid of her says i literally can't get rid of her she's literally in in

clean up

everything okay we cleaned up everything

y we got a corrupt villager noan angry villager

versus

babuska did not win ok shut up guys

verses gwyn the lord of sunleunkin

verses

ah

in ord

in ork

no way it's too it's too unfair

going to have a goblin

verses an angry villager this one seems fair

and this sangry villager be angry enough to take out this goblein lets see

cast your votes

on the one hand

it's a goblin

he is quite small

on the other hand

we have an angry villager a fully grown male but he does have a justin beebver haircut

ah but he does have an axe meanwhile the goblin only has a club who will win

ah let's

all right

all right let the games begin

im goann to ans the games begin

here you' got die

from below

the goblin winds unanimous

victory for the goblin

unbelievable who would have thought

the goblin won

i should we do some more predictions should we do are you guys feeling dangerous

are you feeling like revenge

gambling

should we do more

should we do more dust flows

h

yeah we got a death knight on the one hand eting we're going to do something fun

if these are not fun

we have a very dangerous man versus another very dangerous man who will win these are not

isn't oour for o sure

what of fuck is there

okay this one's going to be top

godzilla yes that is the godzilla ah do not underestimate that this is a small godzilla because this is nothing to be afraid of verses

ah

verses

none other actually

then rizi

none other than

go y show a y all oll you

then diesol

who will win

let's see

a godzilla is gone

es

this is a mess this is a mess this is a mess

okay

let's see

what

the fuck is this

what

what did i thug caing do to deserve to see this what is

is my game this fucking broken what what the fuck is that what the fuck is that ok that is not all right we're going to have i know we're going to do

when i have

what is this it we're going to have

not one not two but three

lions fully grown lions against one elephant

cast your votes

three elephants

three lk

cast your votes guys who's going to win

three lions

or one elephant

super tough decision

ah but i'm sure you guys

we'll know

which one to choose

look at the teeth

on that one

three lions versus one elephant who would have known that it's com in to this

a neutral spectator

is what i'll be

all right let the games begin

ok a clear victory for the elephant

mm

but the fun was that did welear victory for the elephant ok clear victory for the elephant i don't know how else

you

h decide that but that is

very clearly in favor of thele that that elephant is nothing to fuck with

let's go and ask the common people what they think of what happened sir what do you think h what about you sir anything no okay what about you

nothing ok got sir what do you think about the recent thing that was happening sir sir pleaseeole are going inside doors

it looks like people do not have much to say i' what happen

sorry ah

well

please

somebody color good

no

it looks like the people are not taking it very well they're not taking with what's happening very well let's see if a crocodile hep is

a crocodile on the lose everone runs oh no i mean i it were if it weren't bad enough is an anatonda nots news lose oh no

oner the maniac driving around running people over and shit and were that not bad enough

it looks like uh oh shit there's the dead of roaming the earth oh no

oh no the tallids the tall ids are invading the city oh no how we stop this

oh no there's a maniac on the loose there's this there's a maniac

oh no y youre is tank going to be deployed it looks like the talloyds are not being

affected by the tactful new

to to to

you gotta call in the halo weapons don't worry

the mania what is that i think everyone do this is b you got to clean it all up

got to clean it all up

all right

wre our next battle we're going to have the colossus of roads

oh what a terrifying present vers is godsilla ninety eight with radiation oh shit who will win go a cresh

it looks like the ploss of rose is doing a number on them what is that maca godzi ok the game crash

yeah game definitelys that yeah that definitely crest

definitely that was enough to crash the

e that was yeah

go go did you take the lset yet

wow

that was

white

whit in an event

in event

in event

that's

that's what the

that's the best way to put it

i think i'm goinga head out

see later

i'm trying to see if there's a godzille you took it today what did you get

get the results yet

anything below one ninety they say you have to go back to elementary school

that's what they said that's the new policy

gyet below one ninety you have to go back to the

elementary school

how is the debate

find out in two weeks

it was the online version

oh

yeah if you get below one ninety

they sent you back to third grade and you have to restart everything all over again

how do i fix my fucking game how do i fix garry's mad so

it actually works

what do i have to do

i have to uninstall everything

i like how we went from a debate to jeem honestly i was going to end the stream after the debate

i was just going to end the dream

i decided not to

yeah i think i'm going to unsubscribe from this and unsubscribe from this maybe this will sit

tikes

like how do i make it so the fucking particles are not

broken

you know

what is this

particle resource pack

think that was the issue that that's

what's causing it

do we archat with the guerrilla army

what are my favorite and least favorited sections

everything but logic games everything was easy except logic games everything was dog shit easy it's just those fucking logic games

i literally would have gotten the fucking one hundred percent if it wasn't for the fucking lotgic games

logic games i just i didn't even bother with those dude i just fucking guessed

on logic games i literally just guessed

i' just focing guess

should i do viarceette

i don't know

maybe if i go work out now

i don't want to promise you guys anything but if i go work out now and work out early i'll come back

and i'll stream i'll stream again tonight

just like for fun

but i don't know

i don't know if i will

i like play a game i like play a

some kind of game or something

the archs we'll just have like a cosy stream

you know like put dot put notifications on guys honestly put notifications on

but i'm going to go work out

and then i might come back after i work out

but i can't pronounce it

yeah michael goes to class before paul but only yeah exactly

i didn't bother with those i just fuck and guessed on the logic games fuck logic games i don't get a shit about them

but i still got enough to get int to a good law school

and i got a scholarship isn't that fucking crazy i actually got a scholarship

why

what did i do to deserve that nothing

yeah it's just angle bullshit

okuys i'm going to ininstream

i'm goan in stream go to the gym