Haz has discussion with Jackson Hinkle, The Defeater of Jabba the Vaush 🚀 Infrared Content Catalog

what up man how you doing

yo what's good oh [ __ ] man it's

this guy this is jackson hinkle the one

and only the guy who completely

obliterated wash i've never seen it in

my life

like i appreciate the kind words so

first question i have for you have you

are you an experienced debater

uh i'll answer that question am i am i

on video right now or is it just audio

audio you can turn on video if you want

should i uh it's up to you entirely up

to you

i mean i'm down i just uh what do i

click oh turn on camera

yeah yeah let me um

it's not showing up saying like eos

okay okay hold on damn dude looking

fresh looking fresh hold on let me get

this

um hold on discord

let me properties there we go so it's

good all right cool [ __ ] man

who this is the craziest collab man

so okay before you answer that i have

another question

how the [ __ ] have our communities not

heard of each other

i don't know i don't know

you you've been you're pretty big on the

scene

and i never you're you're like you're

very prominent on the scene but for some

reason i never

uh encountered you or our community

never mentioned you it's like

yeah it's crazy i don't know sometimes

it's just like that i feel like twitch

is

its own little like

random haven that's safe from youtube

and all like the

the trolls on youtube it's it's a little

community it's so

disassociated from everything that's on

youtube that that's probably

that's honestly probably why we've never

like interacted or

had any sort of like like collaborations

or

even people that i know that have like

worked with you like i don't know if

we've had any like com

commonalities in the collabs that we've

had with other people

with caleb i think one of the biggest

ones yeah yeah

yeah kayla i think caleb's the only one

probably yeah probably

yeah that's what i like to say like i

like to used to like to say that youtube

was literally like a wilderness

it was like savages and it was it was

like

it was so toxic and then twitch is like

we came we come to like settle down

basically and like

you know have a settled community yeah i

i like twitch a lot um like during

covid i remember i was just watching

like hassan [ __ ] non-stop all day every

day

um and that was

like that honestly i just really enjoyed

the community

way more than any community on youtube

so um

hopefully you know we can we can create

something of that for like

anti-imperialist

real leftists on twitch yeah i mean

um before you came on you've already got

that you've already got that but i think

we i think we can do a lot of expanding

no that's what i'm trying to say is

before you came on i was literally the

only one

who's like in the same political

um place uh

on twitch politics so it's really a

welcome addition especially after like

that's what i want to ask are you an

experienced debater because i've i've

never

seen someone who's just

was able to just keep on their train of

consistency no distractions

no kind of um falling for any of bosch's

traps like you never got

angry you never got emotional and by the

way

that is the reason that's so commendable

is because

when you're dealing with big streamers

for the first time

it can be really nerve-wracking and one

of like the things people do is like

they just get too

um anxious and emotional or whatever and

it just makes them look bad but

yeah you really great performance

honestly

thank you yeah i mean so i that was my

first real debate like

um i don't know if you know kevin logan

he's another streamer who does

political stuff yeah that okay let me

tell you something about kevin

he he was our first like

twitch enemy like all he would do is

like bother us on twitch

he would always cover us on his stream

he would always

i remember i shaved and there was a

shaving accident

and he called me just to make fun of me

because like a shaving accident

yeah like we have a petty beef for some

reason kevin

and then i ended up did i ended up

debating him for some reason he was very

polite then

and yeah since i've never i've never

thank god i've never seen him or heard

of him since but

he was one of our first challenges on

twitch you know

so he like uh during force the vote i

was very involved with that

the forcing the vote on medicare for all

and uh

he wanted so he reached out to me to

like debate me about it and then i

i did the the debate and it was mostly

him just asking me like

questions so i don't even really he

labeled it as a debate but i don't even

really think it was a debate

yeah he's sorry no you're good you're

good what are you saying

i was just saying he's he's not

combative when you're actually talking

to him you know like he's only combative

like

talking [ __ ] yeah some people are like

that some people are like that

they're uh you know that once they get

like face to face or screen screen they

they chicken out um but

vosh was like the first real debate i've

had um like online

but before i started any political

streaming or having a youtube show

i ran for i ran for city council in my

hometown that i still live in and um

you know i i would have to like i was

still in high school when i was running

for city council so

i was having to like debate like all

literally i

i there's only been republicans who've

held seats on my city council since

i was born um so i was debating like all

these old chuds that that are like

you know real estate people or like land

development people that

are like big orange county politicians

and um i prepared a lot through that

i i think like doing debates with them

and then

and then in my campaign um there was

some random guy who who reached out to

me through like one of the other city

council

members who endorsed me and he like he

did like

speech and debate coaching for like all

these ceos of fortune 500 companies

and he just coached me throughout my

entire campaign like trying to get me to

be a

better speaker and public speaker and i

think honestly like i credit that to

like me learning everything that i

learned about public speaking

um and mainly through that because the

guy was just such an incredible coach i

mean

i can tell i can honestly i was just

yeah

i can really tell um yeah it paid off

yeah i mean another really thing that i

really liked was

you had such a solid you were able to

make use of the facts so efficiently so

elegantly

and that's an issue i have debating

sometimes like when we get down to

factual disputes

it's hard for me to like have a

immediate kind of command of the fact

surrounding a topic

in an issue but you know you there's a

really there's a big kind of stereotype

on twitch which was basically this idea

that us

kind of jimmy dore people i guess is

like there's kind of a civil war going

on right between tyt and

and jimmy dore the basic idea is that we

are just kind of

emotional and yelling and we don't have

any kind of uh

solid grasp of actual facts we're just

irrational

uh the anti-establishment position in

general is just

unsubstantiated conspiracy theories uh

all of the facts line up with what the

mainstream media says about the world

i mean it will surprise you right

because

i guess you may be more used to um

the truism that it's not the case but

here on twitch

if you're looking at people like dylan

burns and

all these personalities it really does

the view really does prevail that the

mainstream media and the mainstream

institutions of our society

they are just they have they are the

truth they literally are just telling

the truth

um and that all of the people who doubt

because here's the thing so there are a

lot of people

on twitch who

all these uh progressives and lefties on

twitch are

used to debating right wingers and trump

supporters

and they're playing on the defensive

when it comes to the mainstream media

but they go ahead and they apply that

pretty successfully i think

uh so far against uh leftist and

progressive skeptics of the mainstream

so

we really need someone like you who can

lay down

and it sounds like it's you know why

would you have to do that everyone knows

about that but

even for things like um the way in which

the dnc robbed bernie of his nomination

in 2016.

yeah even if you were to just debate

someone and set the facts straight about

that

you would really be making a huge impact

you know yeah and and uh i'll also say

that like i feel like our

uh from what i've seen in your in your

debates like our

our uh different like debate strategies

and strengths kind of like uh

you know compliment each other so like

maybe where like i lack a little bit

um you you're pretty strong like when it

go when it goes outside of like just

presenting facts in a in a fancy way

that might make a convincing argument

and when it comes to actually like

debating high level ideas

you're very good at that so um i think i

think that's super important as well

and also getting to what you said about

like

twitch kind of being like this this echo

chamber like

i definitely see that and i it's it's

it's honestly kind of funny like

um you were just mentioning dylan burns

and like the only reason why i debated

vosh is because he has such a big

following like obviously the dude is

is a joke right like he has no idea what

he's talking about

he's never before like that week i don't

think he'd ever really

read about the opcw cover-up in duma let

alone like actually

read the reports um and i still don't

think he's done that

so we're what we're dealing with on

youtube is like the actual journalists

who

are digging into this and are being

leaked the reports and are being leaked

the reports from the whistleblowers of

the inspectors are on the ground in

douma

like those are the types of people we're

having on our shows and we're exposing

those people to our audiences whereas on

twitch you have people

like dylan burns who claim to be foreign

policy experts but have

nothing to show for it's like what what

what qualifies you as being a foreign

policy expert you don't know your ass

from your elbow

uh like it it's so it's just kind of

funny like uh

crossing over and seeing these people

that really think that they're

they're so knowledgeable and they're so

confident in their wrong ideas

um and i think confronting that head-on

is the best way to really deal with all

the misinformation that's on twitch

and uh given that you and i kind of

you're

we dabble in both these worlds now it's

like i think it's gonna be

i think it's gonna be pretty dope to uh

you know hopefully try and win over

that audience yeah i mean as hassan

shows i mean the audience is out there

that

are looking for some kind of political

content on twitch that's against the

mainstream

hassan's audience to my knowledge it

goes beyond hassan

a lot of the time you know beyond what

he's comfortable with

but i think the main thing is that it's

it that is so incredible what you what

you said it's like

like twitch that the only reason these

people are prominent on twitch is

because literally no one who's got

experience and knows what they're

talking about has come on here and

actually

challenged them it's it's kind of like

um

putting like a seasoned puff warrior

into like uh chuck e cheese and it's

you know like whoever the top bully kid

was in that chuck e cheese like you know

sorry it's yeah yeah it really

is yeah and like to to some effect like

that or

i i feel like um you know the the real

journalists who are doing this work it's

like they they're they're not

we shouldn't expect them to waste their

time debating people like yeah like

dylan burns for example

but uh when it comes to people who have

massive followings that are just

outright lying to their audiences like

okay well now we're now we're getting

into some like

really really uh dangerous territories

right you have

uh these people that are just like

like lying like i don't know what else

to call it they're just lying about

what has taken place and the the

geopolitical ramifications of what has

taken place

in douma or in palette i mean dylan

burns doesn't even support bds he

doesn't even support bds in palestine so

it's like

again these people have no idea what

they're talking about

um and it's really concerning given

that some of these streamers have

massive followings just

massive followings and um i i hope that

at least some of them when confronted

with the facts and

the reality of what's happening maybe

some of them will will wake up to the

fact that

some of the things they've been saying

has been wrong like i had that happen

like i i was

i i've had a political journey uh take

place in the time that i started my show

which was in february

of 2020 like i've uh become someone who

is just kind of like an

anti-republican social democrat to now

being like a staunch

uh marxist leninist anti-imperialist so

wow

these things can't happen and oh what

was the lot of things

your journey been like yeah i mean um so

the thing with me is that

i was always more of like a nerd i was

more like into

you know theory and philosophy and that

kind of aspect of marxism

and i only kind of um appreciated

marxism leninism in the past few

maybe three four years um

kind of uh after coming from like a very

abstract kind of armchair marxist kind

of position

but i had always understood the

importance of staying in the real world

and real world politics and

understanding that

you know uh you know there's there's

some

you know i'm really glad you come from

where you come from because

the scene is very discouraging if you

look at western mls

most of in for the most part it's kind

of like these people are not in reality

you know these people are not

having a good grasp of um

of actual real world politics and you

know this kind of stuff

and then also there's a lot of there's

an endemic kind of weirdness

you know it's among a lot of them you

know this is a big problem

and obviously you are one of the

examples of like an

actual normal human being so it's like

for you to say you're an ml is very good

for

the brand so to speak you know in

america

yeah likewise for you as well i think uh

i

i definitely resonate with like another

normal [ __ ] human being like there's

just too many weird little basement

dwellers that it's like

cool i'm glad you have good political

takes but like am i gonna want to

hang out with you or associate with you

outside talking politics probably not

so like it's good that there's like more

normal people

yeah yeah yeah i mean um yeah there's

other stuff you said yeah about this

you know the thing with with bosch was

that i don't know if you know this

but no one has done what you did like

no one has actually debated washed

and just unambiguously won like okay for

example even me

i have many excuses you know i had a

horrible insomnia i had i was always

really

uh explosive temper and all this kind of

stuff so when i went on wash

it's it didn't take me long for me to

like

you know get too uh

too into it i didn't stay calm and like

you know i kind of uh

went too far you know that's why it

ended so quickly but

what you so i've never seen anyone i i

actually considered myself for the first

i always consider my like

nah i defeated voge so badly no one's

ever done this but when i saw you i was

like

he actually on them like so bosh's

viewers can just say i just yelled and

[ __ ] right they get to be like okay

there wasn't a debate he just he

he went out and he acted like a gorilla

or whatever but

i cannot see how anyone in good faith

regardless of their position on the

matter right in that specific debate

there is

actually no doubt about who won

i i just don't see how anyone could

contest that you know

yeah but i've never seen anyone do that

to wash i've

i've never seen him so weakened and so

humiliated as in that debate

he he was humiliated and i would have

loved to have seen him

uh after the fact because keep in mind

like i i don't have a

massive following like like he does i

have

20 000 plus on youtube and like

i think at the time i had like 11 000 on

twitter or something like that so

the wit after the debate i went on the

beach run you know i did my challenge

the

beach run that was more challenging than

the debate and i and i came back

and then i looked at my phone and

the all the top clips from uh you know

the vosh debate like vash it was

trending number 15 nationwide on all of

twitter for the united states and i was

like

holy [ __ ] like bro that is that is sigma

as [ __ ]

you literally just you just defeated

wash basically and then you just went on

a beach run

not even looking at your phone like yeah

i was like i was like [ __ ] it we're

going on a beach club

i'm like we're celebrating beach run

we're gonna get [ __ ] up tonight it's

gonna be good night

and then i'm just i'm just so now i'm

just like i'm trying to grapple with

like

what type of reaction vosh must have had

when he realized that this like

like you know dinky youtuber who he said

was

gonna be embarrassed at the end of the

debate i saw that yeah

yeah you said i was gonna have a mental

illness or he said like you'll have to

have a mental health

he was like he was like he's like i am

so confident

about this topic and i am so confident

about what the truth is

that if he ends up disagreeing with me

it's because he has a mental and i was

like oh that's pretty bold wash let's

actually see

what's yeah you know yeah so i

i wonder what his reaction was because

he couldn't have been like

in a good place when he saw that happen

that you'd never be in a good place when

you're trending for negative reasons but

like

then everyone else start started piling

on and the whole thing was hilarious

but uh no i find your debate's hilarious

as well

i watched um i watched several of them

um

god what there was one where you were i

don't even know it was

maybe the kid was like a white

supremacist or something like that

there was some [ __ ] where you were

debating him and you just shut him down

i was dying laughing

i was [ __ ] faded just dying laughing

watching that [ __ ] it was so good

your shit's funny yeah yeah that's and

sometimes you know it's just sometimes i

don't know i'm just kind of more

emotional and more like

uh answering a lot you know

kansa that one yeah yeah the that's

actually you know what a pretty big

channel made an animation for that i

think the video is going to go viral

that and yeah people really like that

for some reason yeah

there's no way this is gonna keep going

and then you keep going yeah

she was funny as hell yeah i mean um

yeah but that's honestly hilarious you

know i always the thing with vosh is

that

i think i heard him say once that it's

okay to lie

in order if you're fulfilling the right

goal so i don't think

i think vlosh saw it as an l

in the ultimate pursuit of his like goal

i think he was just like oh i [ __ ]

that one up you know like

i don't think he personally was like

questioned himself

or he thought oh what if i'm wrong about

he's like i think bosh is basically

saying

it doesn't matter what the truth is

about the opcw

because if the um if your side is

correct

then that's a slippery slope and

stepping stone to you know far

right uh i mean uh

fascism 2.0 yeah we're on twitch i don't

know what words we can use

yeah the the the the how he kept

bringing that up and comparing it to

historical revisionism about you know

world war ii and stuff

it was so shocking to me you know he

like he he

i i don't see like it was so abysmal

like you were

you were talking about concrete facts

and he would just

randomly talk about how that you sound

like uh

you know and the terrifying thing is

basically the implication for vosh is

that

he doesn't care about facts he doesn't

believe that these historical

revisionists that he's talking about can

be challenged he basically says

you know i don't know if he knows this

but we all agree

that these revisionists are horrible

people

but you also have to prove that to them

and many people have proven to them why

their kind of revisionism is wrong

you can't just say that you know you're

wrong because you're bad politically you

have to stick to facts and stick to

truth and wash

was admitting that he doesn't care about

facts he just cares about

ideology and political political truth

basically

yeah yeah and there was a few times in

the debate several times in the debate

where like

you know i caught him in his tracks

doing what he does and just

lying about you know

he he what he does is he'll lie about

small little details

here and there and use those small eyes

to craft an

overarching narrative that deviates

sharply from like

what the reality of the situation is

and if you can continue to like pick

apart those lies

then you can hopefully uh expose to his

audience that

look he's using these lies in a cynical

way

not it's not just like oh i made a

mistake here i made a mistake there he's

using these lies in a cynical way to

like

build a narrative that that you know

fits into his agenda and his agenda is

to win a debate as you said it's not

about

it's not about finding the truth like

okay here here's a perfect example of

that

i thought there would be one one common

understanding that we could have by the

end of the debate

um i thought there might be more but i

was i was very wrong about that

um but one one in particular was okay so

my claim is that these inspectors have

found all this evidence that

assad wasn't responsible for the alleged

chemical attack and that

this was a this was a staged event

manual manually placed bodies we don't

know how the bodies were were killed we

don't know how these victims died which

is

that that's a startling fact that anyone

should look at and say well i just want

to get to the bottom of how these like

49 people

died right but um vosh sits on the other

side of the aisle he believes that this

rep

that the final report the doctored

report was accurate

um if he is so confident in his belief

that that doctored report

is accurate and that the key inspectors

were on the ground to begin with

were incorrect in their findings all of

their findings throughout the

engineering report toxicology report

first draft original report and

everything else they found

then i asked him i said bosh wouldn't

you

support the idea that decide the opcw's

scientific advisory board looks at all

of the information

all of the arguments that are put

forward on both sides of the aisle of

this issue

assesses them all and comes to a full

conclusion as to whether or not there

was a cover-up and whether or not there

needs to be further investigation

and a reasonable person who believes

strongly in their core argument would

say sure

investigate it take it before the

scientific advisory board

let it happen i feel strongly in my

beliefs but

he didn't he didn't say that he didn't

say that he just continued to obfuscate

and move on and he chose to not answer

that question so i that really showed me

what type of a person he is and what his

motives were in the debate

well that's the thing with him is that

he focuses really you said it on

narratives he doesn't focus on facts he

focuses on

so for example he he kept trying to pin

you down

ideologically oh so you're an assad

apologist you you know

you're you you know deny that it's you

know you're you deny assad to dictate

all this kind of stuff when you're just

trying to focus on the facts and then

you know one of the things that not a

lot of people noticed is

how deficient in basic logic wash was

when he kept asking you to explain

like he's like oh then uh how do you how

do you explain all the dead bodies or

what did he say how do you explain

how do you propose but he doesn't

understand from a from the perspective

of logic the burden of proof is actually

not

upon you to have to explain anything

um all you're doing is pointing out the

facts now the the explanation

the implications that has for the range

of possible explanations

may surprise wash expectations but it's

not your fault or your problem like

so boss was basically trying to pin you

down to making the positive assertion

that

you know there was crisis actors or was

it was staged by the rebels

but you didn't it would you did not have

to actually defend that

all you had to do was focus on the um

inconsistencies and the um

the lack of evidence for the claim that

assad did it now who did it

we don't know it's not it's not the

burden of proof isn't actually upon you

to

to know that we don't know you know it's

like is it viable or likely that assad's

enemies did this

probably i mean that makes sense to me

but

it's not that you're dogmatically

treating that as the premise of your

argument but

vosh kept trying to make it seem like

the premise of your argument was that it

was staged by assad's enemies when it

clearly was

not and the the reason why he's doing

that is because the facts

in this story in particular are so

damning

like everything points uh to

to the facts that assad did not

his forces did not uh carry out this

alleged chemical weapons attack so

um he probably at least realizes that

there's a lot

a lot of evidence that uh leads the

conclusion that assad's forces could not

in any way shape or form have

carried out this alleged attack so he

chose to do that he

chose to try and uh change what the

basis of the argument was about

and get me to yes like be be cornered in

this pigeonhole of like

like me trying to come up with a

different narrative as to who could have

carried this out

but as we all know you can't do that

because the investigators were literally

forced off the fact-finding mission team

before they could have

reached a likely conclusion as to who

may have been responsible for this so

it's like

i'm i'm totally all for the idea of

investigating this further and finding

out who's responsible for this

but we just don't have the evidence yet

the evidence we do have though shows us

that assad could not have carried this

out so

yeah i mean the the the premise of this

debate was he was reacting to

a kyle kalinski clip in which kyle said

there's no evidence that assad could

have carried this

alleged chemical attack out and bosh

responded by saying

that's horseshit that's total horseshit

right and then he said well

i don't know foreign policy is difficult

let me call in dylan burns to talk about

this more

yeah i mean um i think you know one of

the

the real distinctions that are exposed

in that debate

is it's very clear that for vosch

ideology is the premise of his position

first it's kind of a saying i i heard

from a chinese commentator

you shoot the arrow first and then

choose the target

right so he just begins with etiology

ideology is true and then facts are

secondary

and the sad thing is is that vosh's

marxist leninist opponents are also

guilty of this

oftentimes a lot of the time they don't

stick to a kind of business like

impartial um focus

on the facts they they get caught in

vosh's web of narratives and ideology

and all this kind of stuff

so and that's also the case on twitch as

well like

the pro-establishment kind of liberals

and progressives here

um basically uh

premise their position on the basis of

well we have a reasonable

uh grasp on facts and the others are

ideological fanatics who disagree for

ideological

reasons so i think you can really change

this

perception in general and basically say

hey the reason why

the reason the anti-establishment

position the jimmy dore position in

other words

is and the bernie and the force the vote

position all this kind of stuff

this is not some kind of ideologically

fanatical or extreme

ultra left kind of uh position it's very

it's grounded in a reasonable

apprehension of

reality plus some courage

right it all it takes it's not that

we're fanatical and we just want to

bring down the system because some

preconceived ideological values

it's that we are willing to confront

the truth of reality with courage

because it takes courage to go against

the establishment it takes courage to go

against the grain and

it's that issue of courage that is

really the defining line in my view

it's not because you know jimmy dore and

all these people are

unhinged and you know completely wrong

and stuff

it's that the people who consistently

defend the democrats and defend

the political establishment in america

they lack the necessary courage to

confront the fact

that um it is internally contradictory

and

basically corrupt yeah no i agree with

that wholeheartedly like

it's it sucks it sucks having to

be right about this stuff like i wish

the squad was fighting for us

i wish that progressives actually cared

about these issues

i wish i didn't have to go out on my

youtube show every day and like [ __ ] on

these people

for continuing to sell us out and be

careers like rank

careerists uh falling in line with so

many politicians of generations past who

have chosen to prioritize their careers

above the needs of working-class

americans americans i remember when i

was first listening to jimmy dore i had

a friend

uh who initially got me to listen to

kyle kalinski who recommended i listen

to jimmy dore

and it was during the it was during the

uh

initial coven bills and he had a lot of

uh criticisms for

aoc in the squad back then when they

were voting for those coveted bills and

i was i was ah i don't want to listen to

this i don't want to listen to i don't

like this

jimmy's too uh you know he's too

critical of the squad that was like my

initial reaction

and then the more i started to listen to

it i was like well he's actually right

he's right about all this this is all

this is all [ __ ] up so like

um yeah it does suck and it takes

it takes like courage to you know not

just be friendly with these people even

though we're the ones who got them

elected

it takes courage to call them out and to

recognize that

they are in the wrong it it's it's it

you you can't you can't

look at all of the evidence that's been

put before us

and say like oh yeah they're they're

just they're just

their hands are tied behind their back

it's like no they are making

active decisions day by day uh

to prioritize their careers above the

needs of

working-class americans and the issues

that they campaigned on so

um i agree i agree it definitely sucks

like i was the biggest like

uh you know justice democrat supporter

i had i i had like a aoc shirt that i

bought i was a member of the sunrise

movement

at one time at one time i was a i was a

member of nancy pelosi's youth advisory

council i was in the belly of the beast

like i've seen it all

i've been there and i [ __ ] recognize

that that [ __ ] is

is it it's terrible it's it's the

problem it's the rot

of uh politics in this country

sorry that is so incredible you know

it's um

what we really need to do here is we

need to shift

the burden of just ideological dogmatism

and fanaticism upon them we need to show

how

they are continuing to defend the squad

because they're trying to maintain this

kind of fantasy and they're trying to

maintain this ideology

that contradicts the plain faced reality

and for you to be able to on twitch

because hassan doesn't do this

hassan doesn't show his audiences for

you to be able to be on twitch

and walk twitch audiences through

whether in the form of a debate or

something else

precisely why the squad has betrayed

working americans

and confront their arguments and the

opposing side

i really think you would be making a

huge dent and you would be introducing

something

people haven't seen here before because

even even me you know

i am not a guy who's well versed in the

inner workings of the us government as

much as you are i mean you actually ran

for

for office so you really have an

understanding of of how this stuff works

you know that my strengths i think come

mainly from

theory and kind of philosophy and maybe

logic and this kind of stuff

my weaknesses yeah yeah and um

but you know you you do the hard part i

do the easy part basically

i'll know about that i don't know about

that but that's also what i'm saying

like i think like i think like uh uh

i don't know if people on twitch do like

well actually i do because you were just

saying that before the stream started

you like

team debates or something yeah yeah i

think that would be

that would be i mean just nothing like

the

listen there if you and i were on a team

in a twitch debate

this would be something never before

seen on the platform and i guarantee you

we would grow our niche

[Music]

i we have to we have to we need to find

worthy

opponents first of all you know i mean

um

i actually kind of like destiny

personally but i really think

you you need to debate destiny i really

think it needs to happen

i would like to debate destiny on

everything we were just talking about

with the squad because i know yeah

i think you should you should debate him

about pop like really about

what's going on in in washington you

know you gotta

debate about the squad aoc

um biden the significance of um

the democrats and why alternatives are

necessary

to the democrats does he support biden

yeah fully 100 really yeah yeah

that's honestly tough because it's like

that's tough that's like really bad

um but i i think he he also

critiques jimmy dore's criticism of the

squad he actually is of the position

he's like

well if i was a progressive i think this

is what he told me

i would support aoc and at least you

know

get more people to vote and basically

that's how i would deal with

the issue the predicament yeah

so he so yeah i know he's gone he's like

retweeted a few of the things i've said

about the squad in the past

um but yeah yeah i'd still like to talk

to him about it he

i listened to your conversation you did

with him last night and i

i do agree i kind of i kind of uh

i feel like i'd only ever seen him in

debates which

is never a good indicator of someone's

personality because like usually people

are fired up in a debate and they're

pissed

so but like sorry he's actually he seems

like

he seems like a pretty normal dude he is

he is and and from my the extent of my

experience with him

for the most part he's pretty good faith

i mean from what i expect and i can't

make guarantees so i'm just saying from

my experience

i don't think he's gonna be like boss

where he's gonna be like oh you're a

holocaust

denier or you're you know you're a

neo-nazi or whatever like i don't think

yeah he'll go there i think he's just

you know the lefties that destiny

debates are

very unhinged and very emotional and

like

they do take it really personally so i

think it could be a polite but very

fruitful and

um aggressive but not in a you know

personally demeaning way

kind of a debate but if if we i don't

know i'm thinking

if me and you were on a team what two

opponents would be worthy of us on

twitch

because the issue is is that wash

has sworn off ever debating me ever

again like

he will not ever accept any kind of

debate with me

i've been trying for a long time to get

a part two but

dude i i don't i don't even want to okay

so i don't even want to engage with him

like

i saw all this stuff about like his uh

sexual assault stuff and all that or

harassment whatever like

i i saw that stuff after the fact i

really wasn't aware of that

i don't even want to engage with that

dude he's [ __ ] weird you know what

like

here's what i'm thinking what if we had

destiny and pac-man

versus me and you oh because pat says

because pac-man's more honest like

debater yeah

yeah that would it's gonna be a tough

one but me and you could prepare for it

and we can collaborate and

wow that would be the debate of a

lifetime i have to message destiny

sometime and

let him know about that but oh dude

that's

that would be a game changer that would

really be a game changer i think it

would be a lot of fun

i think that'd be i think that'd be a

good conversation uh

definitely but uh

yeah i i i listened i listened to uh i

listened to your conversation last night

i gotta say

i uh i took i took destiny's side in the

in the conversation about open

relationships

yeah it might be over yeah i mean um

yeah i don't know it's just uh i guess

it's like well you said you're from

michigan actually right

yeah i'm named after jackson michigan

but i'm from i'm from

uh orange county oh i was gonna say it's

like it's different uh

i have rural midwestern values and

it's different yeah yeah i mean um

yeah i know you know another the thing

about twitch is that

which isn't only based on politics you

know twitch is based on

personalities it's a very personality

focused

platform so twitch if you're you know

you can't do this on youtube that's what

i learned but on twitch you can really

get comfortable

it's being yourself you know it's like

that's what

viewers i think expect here you know but

yeah another thing about twitch

streaming is that

twitch is a very it twitch is about

long-form streaming right like twitch is

people who stream for like

six to 12 hours a day basically at the

extreme end you know

it's pretty intense yeah basically just

fully you know it's like it's like what

hassan does you know

yeah how do you do that like i don't

even know how

i would like prepare for that because

the way i do it is i usually

i'll get like five six stories prepped

before i go live and i'll spend like an

hour doing that

and then i'll just run through them and

in between each story i'll just read

super chats and kind of react and chat

with people

but um yeah how do you do that for that

long

i think it's it's mainly that you

i don't know you you have to and you

have to really do

enjoy it and you kind of have to really

enjoy you know

the thing that kind of keeps me going is

on twitch is it's really the chat the

chat on twitch is different from youtube

because

twitch chat's gonna be a lot more

personal there's gonna be more emotes

and you're gonna get less trolls you

know you're going to have more control

over your chat and you're going to be

able to be used to

it's kind of like a parasocial or

whatever relationship but a dynamic i've

noticed is

okay first of all you don't have to

answer this but how old are you

21. oh what

you're 21 yeah bro

you make me feel like [ __ ] i thought you

were 30.

i was thinking you're a third you're 21

with this much experience and maturity

uh i i yeah i am 21. and you were in

politics running for office and

holy [ __ ] dude i'm

oh my i was thinking you're 30. i'm only

25

you know so i mean i'm as old as 25

i didn't think wow you're 21. dude i

thought you were older too

i thought you were older too that is

i thought you were like 28. no dude you

you really got a future i'm telling you

you have a future on this

but what i was gonna say is that

something i've noticed is that

you know the civil war is right now

between jimmy dore

and the young turks right and they're

both old they're like boomers basically

and it seems like twitch is where the

young people the young people are you

know

um yeah i'm in like boomerland over on

youtube

yeah but you know what the the you we

have to i mean

you'd probably want to be cautious

because you've been very successful on

youtube

like i've no i've noticed you get how

much is your average views now it's like

100 it's like usually like 400 to a

thousand

oh wow yeah you i remember i think i saw

you once

and you were you were usually doing like

200 right so you grew pretty fast

i started streaming uh in like the final

like three days of the election cycle

so that that's like i went from like for

a while i was streaming like 20

40 people 30 people and um

it wasn't until forced the vote when

so like during force the vote i i was

the one who like

uh organized there was a there was a

series of protests in dc

outside the congressional offices and

when i was there and i was able to like

connect with a bunch of other

uh political people like lee camp uh

brianna joy gray for the first time

uh max blumenthal aaron matt or aaron

wasn't there but anya parm pill was

there and

that was like that was the first uh

combo couch i think i'd met them before

because they're in la but like

the first time we all kind of like got

together and they were i was able to

meet a lot of them so

um since then it's just grown a lot

which i'm very fortunate for

it's been an incredible experience that

isn't i will say that is

that blows my mind wow i mean 21

and like you know at that level that's

you know um here's the thing about

twitch hassan really thinks he has no

challengers here like he thinks he's got

a monopoly here and like

he's the only he's the only genius guy

to figure out that

you can really reach the youth and

really tap

into that source but with people like

you i think

we can change the game basically you

know we can really

um we can really change the ecosystem

you know on twitch

but yeah i mean um

yeah here's one thing i'll say about

hassan because

from what i've noticed about hassan

again like i was the biggest hassan fan

until forced the vote um i don't i don't

think i'd ever

even sent a message like you know how

you can rack up all those points on like

you rack up the points if you're in yeah

yeah so like i had racked up like so

many points

so many points just because i never sent

chats but i watch them all the time

and i was i was a i was a subscriber too

he was the only person i've ever

subscribed to so

i had all these points and then during

forced vote he was just saying

literally the dumbest [ __ ] i've ever

heard yeah so i

started spamming his chat with all these

like you know the messages where you use

your points

to make them pop up and then he

responded

wow and dumber and i was like what

but when when he's approached by people

that he at least respects or if he's

approached in like a debate style manner

uh to his left he usually agrees with

people like if you see kyle kalinski or

crystal ball

who are i'm way to the left of them but

they're

to the left of hassan when they press in

on

something regarding the squad or justice

democrats

um usually usually he'll make a

statement whatever and it'll be some

[ __ ] statement then kyle or chris

will come in and like kind of like

course correct and be like well like but

this is actually what's happening and

he'll be like oh well i agree with that

so

i i i don't even think it's necessarily

about challenging and like you're like

winning over his subscribers i think

it's like about just like

maybe even in that case with hassan like

trying to like show him that

there's more than this twitch echo

chamber and there you can actually

pressure these politicians it might be a

bit hard with aoc

i think he wants to see but um beyond

that i think we could have some

some real ground that we uh we cover

with him that would be really great to

be able to win over hassan but you know

one of the issues with hassan i think is

that

and i don't really blame him for this

because i understand but there really is

a personal problem

that the young turks like jank and jimmy

dore have

it's like hassan really can't side with

jimmy dore on on anything you know

because

it's you know it's family you know no

yeah

no that's that stuff is tough and it's

like

i love jimmy i love jimmy but it's like

jimmy is like one of the most passionate

people i've ever met in my life

and like if you are on the receiving end

of that passion

because you said some absolutely gutter

brain dumb

stuff uh you're not gonna you're not

gonna you're not gonna leave the

discussion feeling great about yourself

or jimmy um which is like jimmy's

strength right he he calls balls and

strikes that's what he does he's really

good at it

uh and i think a lot of people

can't understand that it's just his like

his sincere passion like the dude is so

passionate

he's one of the nicest guys that i've

ever interacted with in

any of these spheres he's a very genuine

human being

um and that that you can see it in his

commentary like it's why he can get so

fired up about this stuff

yeah i mean um

yeah he's definitely a very very

passionate guy

and it's it's interesting to see

how you know

how this sphere of just online

influencers

is starting to shape real-life politics

and a lot of people ask like oh what's

an example of that

and it's aoc she came from the justice

democrats who were set up

by jank and um

kyle kolinsky right so i think what

we're going to start seeing

is we're going to start seeing more of

these influencers and

unfortunately influencers like vosh

and others using their platforms to

funnel and um influence

the course of uh progressive politics in

america

that's one of the reasons why i've i've

i've taken the streaming and the channel

on youtube to be a long-term investment

because

sooner or later this is i mean we saw

the donation model

that bernie sanders pioneered become

mainstream even with biden his small

donations and that's actually the

monetization

model of uh youtube and twitch content

creators you know so

i think we're gonna start seeing a

closer and closer

uh connection between these two and the

fact that you have experience in

politics as well

is uh also like an added bonus in that

regard you know

yeah bro i mean i think that's where

we're headed

uh you yeah i mean like

there there's uh i i think the new

iteration of it is gonna be and they've

come under a lot of flack and i think a

lot of like

um really really uh

like bad smear attempts but the people's

party i don't know if you've ever heard

of that yes

yeah yeah the movement are they are they

still a movement for people's party or

are they now the people's party

people's party uh like obviously

i am a again a marxist lindenist so it's

like

wherever i can push for that i'll push

for that uh

i i i've become so

like uh discouraged from electoral

politics in the united states on the

federal level

but i do in a lot of ways think that the

people's party is going to be the next

iteration

of what we've seen with the justice

democrats because people

aren't going to be supporting the

justice democrats anymore like they're

not even blacklisted by the d triple c

anymore

um they they stand no real like they

don't they don't pose any real threats

to the democratic

uh you know congressional campaign

committee or whatever but like

um you see a lot of people now who were

the pri the the first members of the

justice democrats who have been

forced out of the justice democrats uh

now moving over

to the people's party and you see like

um

like the new executive director of the

people's party literally was like one of

the

the first people involved in justice

democrats and these are these are like

the good core people who are like pushed

out of the organization by the

the you mean like uh corbin trent and

that other guy what's that his name is

it corbin trent is the guy

no so um the new executive director her

name is like

zainab i always forget her last name but

um

yeah i you know i have been looking at

the people's party

and hearing a lot of different things

but that's what i was looking at too

actually for the past few years that

that's what i had my eye on was movement

for a people's party because

to me the question i always get

confronted with is like okay

what's your next step what is your real

political position in america and i

always respond

a third party building an alternative to

the republicans and the democrats and i

think this is a reasonable and viable

path i don't think it's a pipe dream and

and

for me the justice sorry the populist

party is a uh

is an example of that now one of the

things i've also floated here is this

idea of reviving

the communist party the cp usa

um but i don't think that

i'm not dogmatic about like um whether

that could

be or substitute for something like the

people's party because as you said the

people's party has the people with

experience from the justice democrats

and it's also more ideologically neutral

than the communist party right

so i i think my idea would basically be

that they're not really incompatible

that the the communist party can still

be revived but instead of the communist

party trailing the democrats

the communist party can trail people's

party

right and then it can still i mean like

as a marxist leninist for me

ideologically the way i think about it

is that

the communist party can be like a

faction within this broader populist

movement

to convince people and persuade people

not dogmatically and not in a divisive

way

of the merit of marxist leninist theory

and ideas in the american context

yeah i yes in in politics

at its core is all about coalition

building like that's what it's all about

uh regardless of whether you're you're

you know

your team you're on the tea party side

of things or you're like a communist or

wherever you stand

you know it's all about coalition

building and

just because you might be voting for a

people's party candidate

or i might be voting for people's party

candidate in 2022

uh doesn't mean that i can't

also support the overarching mission of

like psl

or green party or cp usa like any of

these

uh parties right um i think if anything

it's like we should be

i mean green party they all every

party's gonna have issues every party is

gonna have issues but like

um at the end of the day like if we can

if we can maybe one day

facilitate people's party members to be

in congress and

they're endorsing psl members who are

running for local office and green party

members who are running for local office

who have viable campaigns

that's what coalition building is all

about i think that's how we're going to

be able to achieve like actual

uh you know like progressive ideals in

this country

i think the most progressive

revolutionary thing

let's just be a groundbreaking

achievement is if we could

get a people's party candidate some in

congress

wow imagine aoc when you know she

chain she made a huge ripple effect and

she's still a democrat imagine if a

i mean that would really change the game

you know one of the things i've been

thinking about

so i don't interrupt but i've noticed

people's party

originated in the west coast in

california

i think right uh that's like

nick nick lives in dc and he's the guy

who started it

oh okay i see i see i for some reason i

thought it was biggest in california but

i think

i would think i would be personally

interested in maybe setting

some mid-western presence for the the

people's party you know because

that's something i think i could kind of

work with is like because i understand

the midwestern

situation a little bit and i understand

progressives have a really hard time

winning over these kind of uh

you know this working class uh rust belt

people right they're they're they're

overwhelmingly republican and

overwhelmingly pro-trump yeah winning

these guys from

from trump's support would be i think

the

decisive um victory

for progressive forces because if we can

win these

trump people the working-class ones i

mean

we can really actually pose a threat to

the democrats we can have

our own base of some kind to challenge

the democrats because remember biden's

will stick was like

oh you know bernie's too far left and he

can't compromise with

you know the republicans and

conservatives but what if

what if the actual real left

progressives

won over the working-class elements of

trump's base and also the working-class

elements who aren't voting

at all and who are apolitical that would

really change the game i think

you know yeah yeah without a doubt i

mean like

well it's not it's not if that could

happen that is what happened with

bernie's campaign like he

he he he pulled overwhelmingly better

with uh self-described conservative

democrats

right that that's just that's a fact uh

because at the end of the day like a lot

of these

um very socially left

individuals who might not be as left

uh in their in their economic school of

thought or

their geopolitical school of thought

they don't like bernie because

bernie's kind of the opposite of that

sure he's progressive on social issues

but like

his main like stick was that he was he

was left on economic issues that was his

thing

uh when you look at his policies and how

trump campaigned

they both oppose nafta they both oppose

tpp

they pose permanent normal trade

relations with china

they i mean like uh he did trump like

live up to any of that [ __ ] no he did

the usmc trade deal it's basically the

same thing

but like they campaigned in a lot of

similar ways they were very

protectionist

uh in their like trade policy ideals and

it's like that's what

that's what won over a lot of these

people and i think

i think uh the people's party has an

incredible opportunity to win over

working class americans and i think also

it's it's incredible that we have this

opportunity with a new third party

because

if you look at all of the uh socialist

like candidates politicians presidential

candidates or

uh prime ministers who are winning uh

elections right now all across the world

in europe

definitely in latin america all of these

electoral successes

are coming on the backs of third parties

that are new parties that aren't like

the archaic

uh socialists or left or communist

parties in each of these countries

it's like new parties with incredible

candidates

that whether you like it or not are are

objectively

not like these crazy left uh you know

people on social issues but they're very

far left on economic issues

yeah that's that's been the trend and

you know the this is my

theory was that the decisive blow to

bernie in 2020 was how the democrats

were able to

opportunistically um

turn it into a kind of left-right issue

when it came to

culture and then they threw the baby out

of the bath water basically they were

trying to make

bernie they were trying to associate

bernie with the worst

elements of the left that the working

class hates

basically saying like oh bernie's the

far far left

biden's the far far uh sorry trump's the

far far right and here's biden he's in

the middle and he's going to be a

compromise

and they successfully and it's not only

them who did this it was also a lot of

bernie's own supporters

they successfully divorced bernie from

the working-class

base that would have been decisive for

his victory

and i think this is the main lesson we

have to take away we have to

win back the trump consolidated working

class and obviously not

they're not all trump supporters but a

lot of them sure as hell would never

vote for democrats even if they don't

like trump

they won't vote for democrats they may

they might not be voting at all you know

i think these are the people we need

no we don't we don't have to be

reactionary when it comes to social

views but

obviously we can accept that there has

been a left-wing

opportunism there have been people

elements

uh within the progressive left

that have been taking things to the

extreme

and over being overly judgmental

uh against people for not being as

progressive as them and also

not on not getting their priorities

straight that the

material realities come before the

cultural and uh

social ones as you said you know so

i think you know a lot of the problems

of the left in other words

they're internal problems we see it on

twitch i mean you you

you yourself bear witness i mean with

your

debate with vosh you know i've

personally i've never

debated a right winger who is so vile

dishonest and disrespectful to me

as these leftists are you know there's

these bread leftists you know

i never have either yeah it's it's

incredible it's like for some odd reason

i can actually talk to right wingers and

i can talk to trump supporters and have

a human

conversation with them but these bread

tube leftists they are just

so vicious and so relentless i mean

i i i don't know if i can really even

say this

but i am genuinely baffled

and i am genuinely confused

as to whether or not this is literally a

government psyop

like are these people government agents

i actually don't know you know

i don't know either but um the things

that they say and how confident

how confidently they say them they

definitely give me pause a lot of the

time

and it's it's it's not it what i'll tell

you it's not crazy to say it's not crazy

to say that they

just regurgitate state department

talking points i mean

the night before my debate i'm sure a

lot of people saw it

vosh spent four hours on his stream

reading bellingcat in wikipedia to prep

for our conversation and we all know

bellingcat is literally it is quite

literally state department propaganda

it's funded by the ned it's funded by

the us

the uk british foreign service office

like that is that is

that whether he is doing it wittingly or

unwittingly

he is regurgitating state department

talking points you know

uh which regardless of the motive that's

a huge issue that is a huge you know

i i i was in a debate a week or two ago

and there was this leftist and

she was so adamantly pers

it wasn't she randomly brought this up

about how

you know the it's better if the us stays

in afghanistan and the corrupt afghan

government

has continued to pro it's like how is

this the left why would a leftist be so

passionate about

what how has how has the left the farm

you know mind you the far radical left

quote unquote people who call

themselves anarchists and how have they

become to the right

of what liberals used to be in in 2008

you know

it's yeah in 2008 being

anti-war and wanting to pull out and

being anti-intervention

was an extremely mainstream position

among center-left liberals

and now it's apparently a far-left tanky

extremist position

um so i i really yeah

it's it's really wild it really is

i don't know how anyone could like

actually believe that stuff

well one of the one of the tactics

people they employ here on twitch the

leftists is they'll basically say

factually speaking everything the

government and the establishment and the

ngos and

whatever this network of institutions

says is

actually true but as left is for moral

reasons we can

you know have some room but we need we

need some kind of discourse here that

actually says

people in power are lying to you about

reality

distrusting mainstream media does not

make you

a far-right neo-nazi uh

because we can demonstrate it you know

uh factually we can actually rationally

and coherently demonstrate

how the mainstream narratives lie about

reality

yeah yeah i mean the

ah i i i i don't even know because it's

like

so many of these bread tubers they just

they just

they i mean they a lot of them have like

the the facts and the evidence before

them but they continue to choose to lie

about this stuff and then they call

themselves

anti-imperialist but they're not and in

one of like in one of josh's clips that

he posted

this week he literally said that china

is more

i don't know if he posted this week i

saw it this week he said china is more

imperialist than the united states and i

was just

bored i was like am i missing the 830

chinese military bases across the globe

am i missing the the chinese

interventionist wars across the globe

like am i not seeing this stuff like

what are you talking about what the idea

of ash is spreading

is basically this kind of um extremely

dangerous lie

so he's basically trying to say that

america's foreign policy enemies are

actually fascist

and that supporting america against them

is aiken to supporting america against

nazi germany during world war

ii and vasha's also decided to rewrite

history so washes also said that

actually the soviet union was a fascist

country

that was allied with the nazis and that

the only reason they went to war was

because um

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stalin was too greedy to want to split

europe with hitler and then that's

that's basically the reason i would not

be surprised if voss stumbles upon the

idea that

hitler was the true anti-fascist

and you know he should have been

supported against the fascist soviet

union because

you know with vosh what you're

increasingly seeing and all these clips

you're getting out of wash

is that up is down left is right and

that you know

everything is upside down and it's just

everything is backwards basically

you know yeah no that's that's a

it's an accurate representation of of

his political commentary i don't

understand how he has an audience but uh

you know slowly but surely it's going to

be chipped away at and i look forward to

i look forward to engaging in that with

you and uh i think

i think we can make it happen i've

already had like i've already had

several dozen people reach out to me who

were like i was in bosch's discord

i kind of listened to him sometimes or

like i listen to him a lot

and uh you expose him and like maybe

i'll listen to him sometimes now

like less often whatever but like uh you

you

you expose them to be an absolute liar

on on this issue in particular

yeah i mean like i said i'm really

grateful that you

you know you're on the the platform now

and that you know your name

is getting out there because i'm going

to do some real self-criticism i didn't

do a great job of winning over

bosch's people they just saw a kind of

crazy angry guy

kind of but you know with you i think

you're really

making you're you are really doing a

good job of making marxism leninism

mainstream or not even marxism leninism

per se but

just the kind of progressive

anti-establishment

anti-democrat position that's actually

going to be the true

successor um

yeah yeah sorry

i don't know if you broke up there for a

second but um

yeah it's i mean it's got it's got to

happen it's got to happen and we need it

from all sides we need people who are

like

angry and pissed off when we need people

who are more calm as well it's like it

needs to be coming from all sides

because

who knows what's going to resonate with

the person on the other end of the

screen you know like

yeah who knows who knows everyone's

going to be

like you know resonating with something

that's completely different than the

next person

and the more voices the better if they

don't like jimmy dore

maybe they'll like maybe they'll like

you or maybe they'll like me who knows

but

if we continue being vocal

and exposing the the bs that they're

putting out

uh at some point or another they're

gonna have to listen and when they start

listening

i think they're honestly going to be

surprised with how much they actually

agree with us

on yeah i agree with you and one of the

things that

you have that's so important is that

good faith that belief that

those people are out there not all of

these liberals and wall supporters are

just bad people

a lot of them really do believe that the

facts and reality and truth is on

wash's side and all these other people's

sides so

i really do see the capacity with you

to win them over to because you yourself

were a former

like you said you were kind of a former

liberal type of guy yourself and

you saw you know through your own

journey through your own experience

and i think that's an extremely

important um

path people need it's an important

journey that

should be made accessible to more people

hopefully we can do it bro i

i think that uh that pacman destiny

debate would be a lot of fun

i have to i have to message destiny

sometime about it but

i think we should also talk again but

this time next time in private because

there's some things i want to talk to

you that

i don't know if i want to talk about on

stream but

yeah just to give you an idea of like

the twitch scene and

kind of like the differences from

youtube and all that stuff but

i'll definitely let you know sometime

i've been kind of busy because

i haven't been getting a lot of sleep

and you know i'm not a lot of free time

but

i will definitely message you on the

discord do you what do you use more

discord or twitter

for dm's twitter twitter i'll dm you on

twitter yeah i'll let you know on

twitter

uh to schedule a time uh to talk on

discord

and uh yeah we'll definitely um we'll

definitely get more into detail setting

some stuff up and as soon as we nail

down a debate that we can team up on

we'll set up a kind of group chat where

we can

share like strategies and evidence and

we can really

because we got to be in it to win it you

know we really have to make this like a

legendary that's the only way you can do

it

yeah why you have to when you can when

you can go full out

you know right yeah all right bro

yeah thank you for having me on i

appreciate it it's good it's really an

honor you know it's it's a really a

pleasure to have you on

was not expecting it it was a pleasant

surprise and guys

do your twitch name has two elves

yes two l's yeah it's jackson hinkle

with two l's on twitch go give him a

follow

he's kind of how much followers you have

on twitch right now

um

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i think i'm over 700 now that honestly

thanks to your raids i was at like

500 or 400 or something a few days ago i

think yeah i mean

if if you're live and i'm going offline

and i see you're online

i'll you know i'll make sure to raid and

most of the time but yeah i mean uh

so it's jackson hinkle two wells you

wanna your youtube is just jackson

hinkle right you type that in the search

and

yeah it'll come up if you just type in

my name yeah yeah so guys this is

only the beginning of the collaborations

to come between me and jackson

i'm telling you this is the team that's

going to shape shake up the game on

twitch you know like

uh yeah so you know i was oh it's always

a pleasure

and i look forward to talking to you

soon

likewise bro you have a good rest of

your night thank you for having me on no

problem man see you later

peace