Haz Debates Ecology Guy about Ecology

hello

hello

speak

okay you can can you speak

uh what is going on can you can you not

speak

can you speak

this is really embarrassing is is

is is there nothing

he says he has no permission to speak in

the channel

okay let me uh unmute him

there you go

that your chat has been putting forward

okay let's hear it well it's just

we were sort of having a bit of talk

around

you know just different political stuff

and i think i brought up

something about just sort of like

ecology

being part of my my thought and you know

they were

spamming all the saw emotes and

everything um

i just personally think you know it's

all the science shows that we're sort of

leading towards

another extinction sort of event there's

going to be

weather disaster specifically in the

global south where a lot of the

the industry is being forced out to

um in places like china where it's being

exploited by the west

so first of all the global south is a

meaningless word

okay it just doesn't refer to anything

you know especially when you're

including china with that it's like

i'd say that the impoverished

okay but here's the problem right the

key

to poverty alleviation and this is true

is industrialization without these

countries being able to industrialize

and develop national industries they're

going to remain poor

okay i'm not going to come across as too

paranoid here but doesn't it seem

a bit strange when you sort of see that

the only way

for these socializing countries

to save themselves is to sort of

become these and i'm not saying that i

view them

this way but become these in a western

sense

villains in an ecological sense that

we're

all you know we're all destroying the

planet but now people say

you know look at china they yeah yeah

but they didn't know this

right but the reason that they appear as

villains is because westerners are

actually the only ones who possess

the fanatical and bizarre views about

the environment that they do

i mean other countries prioritize

human centered development in the

welfare of people

over animals i mean for example

in non-western countries people don't

believe animals can have rights

i think it's a stupid and ridiculous

idea but westerners

see the way animals are treated in

foreign countries and they think oh

they're villains but well it's it's not

that they're villains

the west has a very strange view of the

relationship between humanity and the

world

sure and i understand this i think i i

sort of view

obviously not exactly the same but i do

think the west uh

takes this almost it's almost like a

savior's stance in a lot of cases

we promote like excessive veganism and

excessive sort of like promoting the

public to take

ecological measures but in this sense

it's more

the science is pointing towards the

the way that weather is shifting and the

way that the climate is increasing in

its temperature

this is going to be something which

affects not just animals not just the

environment but

humans in every level like we've seen

the floods yeah i'm not denying you

there's

there's climate change and that it's

going to affect a lot of different

things

but my only question for you is you know

i remember

10 years ago when there was climate

people saying

oh in 10 years it's going to be the end

of the world i mean when

you know these predictions seem like

they never actually come true

well this is because personally from

from my understanding of the topic

it's because people often misunderstand

how

climate and weather interact with one

another

and uh the sort of the climate is

something a lot

harder to sort of uh to measure whereas

weather patterns in relation to climate

are a lot easier to measure

so if the climate if the climate becomes

a lot warmer

we know how that's going to affect the

weather what we don't know is

when are our carbon emissions going to

make the climate warm

uh i think i think it's i mean we

clearly can observe

um heating that the world is warming

right

it's very easy to observe i just don't

think we have a fully

a really full understanding of

the atmosphere the and how that relates

to the weather i think

people overestimate how much scientists

understand

this and how it relates to environments

i mean here's what we can know for

certain we just don't know right so

if we don't know we can assume that

environments rely

upon the weather in ways we probably

take for granted

um sure and uh hold on this also tells

you

wait wait wait there's someone in my

chat vile said it's not so true the

indigenous peoples of america are among

the people who care most about the

environment

that is the biggest lie i've ever heard

did you know that

indian reservations and that's what they

prefer to be called by the way

literally petition the government to be

able to drill

their own land and extract oil

so that's a very kind of if i could add

a point to this as well

when it comes to indigenous a lot of the

misunderstanding is for instance

in canada it's more that they want their

land to themselves they don't care much

about the environment they just want to

use that land for their

own practices yeah it's more about sort

of like a

uh they don't want more land taken out

of their jurisdiction

than it is you know all these people

they're so tied to

nature and they love the environment

that's a liberal [ __ ] you know

yeah um what i was going to say was

the way that humans can study and learn

about the climate

uh for instance one big thing is china

is

actually coming quite close in a

relationship to my country scotland

um and my country is sort of forwarding

green energy we've always

uh relied on sort of tidal energy and

wind energy and like my city has a

really big oil

sector so we we do contribute to uh

carbon emissions into

to fossil fuels as well but i think if

if countries like china were

willing to sort of take these smaller

countries into account and see how we're

uh we're pushing forward this i wouldn't

say my country's socialist but we

we're a lot more um populist

than i guess most uh uh well especially

england and like germany and stuff like

that uh and see how

like our countries as a populist

movement are aiming towards

focusing on more care for the

environment

uh and you know sort of a more

international collaboration

instead of this war mentality of like

china and their industry again yeah i

just think

i think westerners need to take into

account of how much they take for

granted when it comes to their

priorities

you have to understand that most of the

world

like needs development very desperately

and it is the primary

like if you live in a developing country

right

you will not have a shot in politics if

you don't have some kind of

it's all about development i mean it's

the primary goal

is to engage in modernization poverty

alleviation and

affording the world's people a kind of a

minimal

standard of living so that's the top

priority as far as

they're concerned it is always it isn't

necessary it's a necessary step

but i think it's something we should

definitely look to revolutionize

alongside other you know china

especially focuses on revolutionizing

technology

i think if they look towards

revolutionizing uh energy consumption

and uh and the production of they are

they are they're pursuing

here's the thing there's there's so

there's so many different things that's

really why i don't really like

the term climate change i don't because

it assumes you can just respond to the

climate changing

and you can't what you can do though is

you can engage in

intensive and local policies and things

to

mitigate the effects of what it appears

to be an inevitable

climate change you know something

concrete you can deal with is pollution

the way pollution

arms is quality of living for people

that's something you can tackle you can

tackle

um as far as as

a globe the changes that are happening

at the global level i don't think you

can actually

reverse those now let me tell you

something right now

the arctic is melting we know that right

but because it's melting

there are so many minerals and resources

that are ripe for exploitation

including fossil fuels and oil russia

america

china are all going to pursue these and

this will be a great accelerator of

global

development will it lead to an

accelerated level of climate change

yes but uh ultimately humanity will have

to adjust

to this new uh this new type of world

sure i guess like if we compare this

almost if we return to you know i don't

know personally i'm more of a hegelian

than a marxist but if we turn

to a dialectical uh look at it i guess

there's

this sort of thesis and auntie's thesis

there's this war

and resource effort when it comes to uh

the changing climate

and then the antithesis to that would be

uh a more collectivising

and learning about how we're all

affecting the climate

and you know maybe coming together not

as governments but

i think this is a kind of um western

perspective i don't think

i i don't think that level of

abstraction that like we

as in like the people of the globe right

i don't i

doesn't mean more as a subject there's

already let me tell you the truth

the truth the truth is

there is no planet there's no such thing

as the planet

uh this sounds like thatcher's quote you

know she says there's no such thing as

society only people in there

she was right actually in a way that

there's no i don't i don't believe so

she wasn't in a sense she was right in a

sense she was right because

what thatcher is a good hegelian because

there is no

society society is a determinant

takes only a determinate form hegel

would say something like

society is a determinate dialectic

between the state

and then the civil society and so on but

society as such

doesn't really exist society for example

can be prussian society can be

this or that but society as such does

not really have an existence

i think if we if we are taking this sort

of yeah but let me finish my point about

the planet not existing let me finish my

point about the planet not existing

so what we are calling the planet right

the planet is a tiny sliver

of the surface on earth correct

that's what we refer to no one's

referring to the core and and you know

oh yeah we haven't dug down we don't

even know what's down there we haven't

really dug down very far we don't really

know what's in our oceans

so i think you need to narrow in your

perspective

when people are talking about the planet

they are talking about

the habitable spaces

that we know of on earth for people for

humans

that's the planet and all of the things

we know

that depends on thereof with climate

change there's going to be an

increasingly

uh developed science

of human habitability creating spaces

and environments that people can live in

that can sustain life

uh i see climate change

as in a sense

uh a way of kind of deteritorializing

this thing called

the planet what i mean by that is that

instead of having this lazy view of

a planet we begin to really interrogate

the science of

how through geological and ecological

processes

what we have as this habitable world

is possible in the same way we have a

science of agriculture in the same way

we have a science

of growing different plant species and

farming and so on

we will have a science of growing human

habitable

spaces well yeah i

understand like the way that it's almost

like adapting to the changes

yeah adapting and no and no longer

sorry and no longer taking for granted

the natural premises of habitability we

don't take it

so things like the weather i'm not

saying we will fully control

or fully master it i'm just saying we

will

adapt to it we will have a way of no

longer taking and it's just

same thing as uh agriculture

i think i'm i'm gonna go off to this

next point but i think this is

if i could put one more thing in this is

really interesting uh

in siberia i don't know if you've seen

the um

sorry they're sort of echoing on your

end it's a bit distracting

actually i'll turn them like they're

volume a little bit no no it's okay i've

just removed my mic

in siberia uh some of the the permafrost

has been

melting you know that this we've seen

some of the highest temperatures in

siberia

as of recent and with the permafrost

melting they've been finding these uh

almost like explosions of land or

there's this massive expansion and it

creates craters in the ground

and uh it's getting quite

i wouldn't say close but it is around

the areas where you might

find uh you know

land which is maybe not being settled on

by indigenous people

um but it's definitely land that people

would be traveling through

or you you would find people

even visiting you know as part of their

just if they want to visit another part

of the region

that they live in and i think these are

things obviously that we can't control

we don't know how to to get down and to

stop

permafrost melting it's something that's

just gonna happen

um but one thing i think we can do is we

can look at it sort of indiscriminate

indiscriminate and discriminatory in

this uh take an

indiscriminate view of

even the most far-off regions of the

world

and this is maybe from a western

perspective but the regions that people

don't really think about like siberia

some people might not even know there's

indigenous people living in siberia

um and we can sort of take a view of of

these regions and see them as no

different to

you know flooding in central europe or

typhoon

the problem is that it's kind of uh this

universalism is not sustainable because

there is an objective fact of different

states

different geopolitics and

you know i think one of the reasons i

think ecologism

it's not the same as ecology maybe we

call it ecologism

is an extension of kind of uh unipolar

american imperialism

is because it has this hard scientific

realistic

look at the world's geography right and

the natural world

and it it's no borders it sees all of

this as part of like

you know you look from space oh there

are no borders from space right

but this is an encroachment upon the

sovereignty and self-determination of

states

for which these are actual territories

that they

belong to the people living in those

states it's not we don't live in a world

that belongs to

quote unquote everyone because if the

world belongs to everyone it really

means it belongs to

america america true well

uh i'm gonna go now i think this has

been a really good conversation it's

uh obviously i didn't expect to come

into this speaking to

you know sort of a bad faith you know

destiny or

someone like that one of those sorts of

figures um

okay so one of the things so i was told

that the reason you were put in

quarantine is because

there was like some creepy stuff

i don't know i was just sort of trolling

because uh some people were being i

wouldn't say they were being a

transphobic they were just being a trad

larpers you know

but i can i can sit back on the trolling

a little bit what do you mean trad

larpers

i don't know they were just acting weird

you know uh

i personally i would say they were

breaking the sixth rule because they

were like spamming me with

with some [ __ ] but you know

try not take things too seriously but i

can i can you know i could put my

serious face on don't [ __ ]

disgusting [ __ ] okay don't be sharing

disgusting [ __ ] you know it's like

like i said it's one of those things

it's like i don't know we have a lot of

non-western people in our discord so

people are more conservative you know

we're it's not like uh

wash or bread tube discord where we're

gonna be sharing a bunch of nasty

you know sexual [ __ ]

okay sure i'll get demon right

away uh peace okay bye