UKRAINE-RUSSIA TRUTH (DEBUNKING DISINFO) /WAR CRIMES IN DONBASS [2022-03-15] 🚀 Infrared Content Catalog

foreign

[Music]

now it's over

and by the way this was just the most

convenient scenario possible this is the

most convenient scenario that I could

have [ __ ] ever got is I went there

really expecting something to happen

something I was thinking it wasn't going

to be him it was going to be a group of

people that were there because they were

taking photos

turns out there was no one

now there can be no question about my

character

now there can be no question

it's as simple as that

all this talk they've been doing has

been proven wrong everything they said

about me was wrong every single thing

they said about me has just gotten

proven wrong so we're done with the

[ __ ]

we're done with the [ __ ] now

I don't want to ever see anyone

try and test my character

I don't ever want to see anyone try and

test me again using Twitter and doing

his [ __ ] keyboard Warrior [ __ ]

simple as that

so let me explain to you what just

happened I woke up this morning with

someone claiming

that they came to Lansing

I said okay

I just woke up so send me a selfie

confirming you're there they said I just

drove back to Chicago

so what I said is very simple I said

okay

I am going to sleep at 4am

thank you donated ten dollars Big W

brother today you have proven without a

doubt all dgg has our lives

I know

they're [ __ ] Liars that's all they're

[ __ ] ours liars and bluffers they're

liars and bluffers

so he finally said he's going to come

and then I said okay when you get to the

location

and post a video of you being there with

a selfie and he said no huh as you're

trying to shift the goal posts

why did I tell him to do that because I

didn't want to waste my [ __ ] time and

go drive somewhere

with a strong suspicion no one was gonna

[ __ ] show up

you called the cops

I'm gonna go ahead and um

I'm gonna go ahead

based

so this is someone whose Destiny's Ally

know nothing TV so he claims I called

the cops right

I'm not sure how that would have been

possible given the [ __ ] time

I just did a [ __ ] stream when I was

there there were no cops anywhere to be

found okay so he posted this claiming

that I called the cops okay

game claiming I don't know why he would

call the cops and we're just gonna have

a debate in-person debate but anyway

he posted this he said I call I uh I had

the cops called on him right

so this reverse image find it and it

comes from a Google search when you

reverse image find it

okay

now if that doesn't have you convinced

that this person's lying

here's this this is just direct evidence

okay so here's them here's the DMS

someone mysteriously decided to post he

said hey man I'm in Lansing I'm gonna

stream it and they said give me the new

place and then he said I don't really

want you to waste your time I'm not

actually going I never left Chicago and

just want him to drive an hour to

nowhere

you think Destiny called upon his fans

to send this dude a video of the

location yes

and the reason I knew that was the case

that it was I listen I guys I knew for a

fact he did not record that footage of

him being there why because he said he

was four hours away

at like seven okay

when he claimed that he was there he had

to have gotten from Chicago to Lansing

in like an hour and a half or two it's

not it's physically not possible okay so

I knew he wasn't there thank you hugs

but I thought someone was going to be

there at the very least to confront me

but thank you Ox yeah he was lying

he was lying

and I could have saved my time and just

said he's lying I'm not gonna waste my

time but then they would have said Haas

you're too scared so then I said okay

Destiny give me ten thousand dollars if

I go there and he's not there

they were just trying to bait you that's

their new [ __ ] cult I have some good

dirt on Destiny I have literal career

ending dirt on Destiny

be even more than that and I'm really

saving it I'm really saving it so

whatever dirt you think you have on

Destiny I have [ __ ] that would end his

career

his whole career and there would be no

way to get back from it there's lit

there's no recovery from it okay no I'm

saving it this is something I want to

save for my career to protect mine

based

w

it would devote his life to ending mine

in return the the problem is

I have a clean past

so this is Destiny's latest cope

okay this is the cope from dgg ready

I don't even have the energy to address

this do I have to go do more Shadows

this is what they're saying now the

Shadows look the same so this Shadow

we're going to compare the Shadows the

Shadows look the same

how I'm pretty sure this is a fat obese

[ __ ] thank God they didn't show their

face

in what Universe are these Shadows the

same this is the dumbest [ __ ] I've ever

[ __ ] seen

this is any human Shadow would [ __ ]

have this

this is their latest code who gives a

[ __ ] I went there there's nothing else

to say they can try and shift the goal

posts all they [ __ ] want

yeah and that was there before I left

so they're saying it was a sock account

of mine to make me look good okay then

go look at their tweet history dumbass

a sock account wouldn't

I looked at their tweet to just because

I thought they were [ __ ] bot a soccer

company spend that much time tweeting in

the way that [ __ ] account did

Destiny is a [ __ ] and a [ __ ] liar

he's a [ __ ] and he's a [ __ ] liar and

he's a little [ __ ] I just took

everything from him I just took

everything from him there's no recovery

for Destiny now or his [ __ ] Community

this is the beginning of the end of dgg

and the rise of IGG it's as simple as

that every [ __ ] thing they ever said

about me has just proven proven wrong

every [ __ ] thing they ever said about

me was just proven wrong

even dgg people are telling me yeah I

took the W on this even his own [ __ ]

disloyal communities telling me that but

what do you think that means

I don't live in Detroit

you probably know that by now

thank you so much

yeah they're not saying you're falling

for the troll I don't care because

that's not how you interpret this you

didn't see him as a troll you saw this

as a real guy who's gonna test my

manhood and see if I was gonna [ __ ] out

or show up so had I not gone you would

have literally endlessly you would have

made viral posts and videos saying I

pussied out and I didn't [ __ ] show up

so what if I don't show up I'm a [ __ ]

but if I show up I fell for the bait

shut the [ __ ] up you little [ __ ]

what kind of [ __ ] cope is that not a

[ __ ] cope is that look at Destiny

looks like is a hole is an infrared sock

account to faked the whole thing to make

Haas look good

this the cracks are already clear

this is the beginning of the end

the end for your entire brand and career

you chose The Wrong Enemy

this is an indisputable defeat for you

even your best Lie co is being called

out by your community as BS

enjoy your

Beginning of the End bottle enjoy the

beginning of the end

first I faked it to make myself look

good so I look good then I don't look

good I look like an idiot for falling

for the bait from the troll but had I

not gone I would have been a [ __ ] who

backed out of a fight or I'm sorry a

verbal fight of a debate right

Nico San you just proved that every

single person who talks like you is a

[ __ ] lying coping [ __ ] [ __ ] and I'm

not wasting my time with you anymore

that guy was your Champion he was the

one who was gonna prove your community

actually was about something and he

[ __ ] did what he bitched out and he

[ __ ] pussied out

that was your Champion by the way

just [ __ ] indisputable

they're now saying the guy was my fan

and he was faking it the whole time

and I set the whole thing up

we're done

we're done we're done with the [ __ ]

we're done with the [ __ ] [ __ ]

aren't you I don't give a [ __ ] because

this is the champion destiny listen let

me explain to you what happened I'm just

gonna explain this to you

so I've been beefing with Bonnell for a

little bit right and Bonnell decided to

choose this guy as the champion of DG

there's no comebacks this is what you

decided you said this was going to be

your champion

who is going to test whether Haas was

real or not right whether hos was all

talk or whether he was real

now listen hold on you know what there's

something really interesting with what

Destiny said

I'm calling Destiny out right now

actually I'm gonna call him out right

now actually

so Destiny this is a message for Steven

Bonnell II hey Destiny

if this was a fan who faked the whole

thing to make me look good right this is

how he this is how easy it is to debunk

this

this guy was someone you randomly chose

as your champion and the champion of dgg

as a whole

you retweeted and promoted him

did I

plan for you to do that how keep [ __ ]

coping that's it simply that destiny

if I am the one who made this sock

account or if this was made by a fan to

make me look good who the [ __ ] made you

retweet and promote him the only reason

this even turned into a thing is because

you were promoting him I would have

ignored him otherwise but since you

decided to like put this in a spotlight

and make this this is Haas versus all of

the enemies

and this is their champion this is the

champion of dgg and vosh and all those

[ __ ] people you decided to promote

that guy I didn't [ __ ] force you to

promote him how could I have known you

would have promoted him it's that

[ __ ] simple

it's literally that's [ __ ] simple

what a [ __ ] [ __ ] and a [ __ ] liar

what a liar and a [ __ ] [ __ ] now let

me okay this is like a psychosis moment

for that dgg this is like this is a

black and white psychosis so for all you

Destiny viewers

this is gonna decide whether you're in a

cult or not okay this is gonna decide

whether you are in a cult or whether you

still maintain like a semblance of a

connection to reality right so do you

really believe that this was me that

this Shadow is me and like do you really

believe that you you don't see that this

is cope

do you really think that this was my uh

this was a sock account or whatever like

you are you actually buying into that

genuinely and sincerely like just forget

about your whose side you're on like

don't aren't you still a human being who

thinks you live in reality so are you

really gonna lie to yourself and say

that this is true just you're you're

entering into psychosis at that point

you're a crazy person

like that's why I'm saying this is the

end of Destiny's career like he's saying

this he's just saying like a patently

false thing this is the end of his

career this is like the breaking point

that ends dgg and ends Destiny's career

as a whole okay because

this is just every everyone can see this

as a lie

the fact that you have to openly lie to

your community and and backtrack and

backpedal this [ __ ] hard shows you've

lost the plot you've lost any connection

to the truth it's not even an argument

like everyone sees you're just [ __ ]

coping at this point

no it's not a troll this is this is

literally the biggest surrender of

Destiny's entire [ __ ] career mark my

words this is the beginning of the end

this is the beginning of the end

he deleted this can someone save it I'm

saving a screenshot of it I'm saving a

screenshot of it because he knows

because if he tweets this this is the

end of his career so everyone say and

also save my VOD save this someone right

now right now don't assume someone else

is going to do it everyone save a VOD of

that IRL I just did where I showed up

and I I went on streamed it on Twitch

can you save that too

save that save it right now save it

right now

save it now

log everything

okay because if he deleted this no he

didn't delete it okay he didn't delete

it he did not delete this tweet good let

him keep it up

yeah so this is the destiny fan who

actually like believes they're living in

reality and they maintain some

connection to reality so they're like

wait can someone explain to me how this

is true like come on look like remember

the ghost of Kiev [ __ ] and it was like

disproven and then there was a divide

between people are like okay come on

this is made up and other people were

like no no shut up still like don't ruin

it because it's we have to lie to fight

the enemy right we need the morale so

but this guy's the guy who's like okay

guys this is just not true like these

two Shadows are far from identical this

doesn't prove anything like what come on

guys do we still live in reality and

let's see how he's gonna get responded

to

so this guy's just saying oh pause is

getting debated oh Haas was getting

trolled

haha

so yeah it's just a [ __ ] cult

it's just a [ __ ] cope

okay there you go there's a lot of

people neutral people who are blinded

blinded by like all the [ __ ] fake

narratives and [ __ ] so like I

specifically did this because it was

worth it to me like everyone was

watching and I'm like okay guys I want

to show you who's right and who's wrong

here because so many people don't know

the truth they've just like been blinded

by these coping narratives that like

Destiny and Dylan Burns and Voss create

so guys here's like a live example of

how they lie and makes it up and this is

going to prove who's right was I right

or are they right right and now even

like the neutral people who were against

me they're like okay wait a second there

is something wrong there's like a very

big problem of lying about Haws here

like there's a really big issue here

right even that's all I wanted from this

it's literally all I wanted

as you're acting what you're doing is

quite scary not because you're ending

careers but this is theory of Destiny

hate let alone supporting Putin absolute

psychosis

um

I think Destiny thought that when I was

like nice to him that that was weakness

and when he decided to go to war with me

and it's probably gonna he's probably

gonna look back at this as like damn I

should have stayed away from that house

guy because he was the he was genuinely

the wrong one to do this with that's

what I that's how I think this is going

to turn out and by the way before anyone

like says oh Haas you got banned from

twitch yeah it's very possible I'm gonna

get banned from twitch for one reason or

another it's I'm not saying it's

impossible it is possible but my

presence on the internet does not gonna

begin thank you Jenna my presence on the

internet is not going to begin or end

begin and end on Twitch Destiny's

debating a certain someone this Friday

about a certain topic who is not on

Twitch

um

and that guy's Community let's just call

who it is Fuentes his community will eat

dgg for breakfast okay you know me I've

critiqued the Fuentes community and

whatever all that kind of [ __ ] but they

are genuinely more vicious and more

brutal than Destiny's Community they

will eat the Destiny's Community for

breakfast like they don't Destiny's

Community does not stand a chance

compared to that one and that guy's not

on Twitch so no matter what happens to

me platform wise I'm always going to

have a presence on the internet

I just follow the rules of the platform

I'm on when I'm not on a platform I'm

not bound by the rules anymore

Destiny earlier was calling you a [ __ ]

and saying you weren't man enough to

show up

and now he's backtracking and saying

that I just fabricated this entire thing

he now just backtracked and said I

fabricated this whole thing and that

none of it was real

what the [ __ ] does this even mean what

does this even [ __ ] mean

what even is this supposed to mean

what the [ __ ] does this even mean

okay let's look back

let's look back and compare because

thankfully I didn't just take photos I

took a video so let's

let's look okay so this is what he

posted this is what the guy posted he

said this right

so this is a very clear image now look

okay and then here's this right so this

is what he posted

and then look at my

so that's what he posted right then look

at mine

pretty [ __ ] obvious that it's the

same place

it's literally the same

what is different what exactly is

different here huh let's look at it

again

let's look at it again

yeah okay see here's the barrels and

here's this [ __ ] car

and there it is it's the same [ __ ]

place

what a [ __ ] cope what a literal cope

he's referencing the car the car is

exactly the same and it's parked

conveniently in the same place

what is he even saying what is that

[ __ ] supposed to prove

yeah he just pulled his [ __ ] uh

Hitler attempting to invade the Soviet

Union this was like the biggest blunder

of his whole [ __ ] career

what does this even prove

Oh I thought I faked the whole thing to

look good

by the way what does this photo even

grew

especially when there is a ton of video

evidence

what does this even prove when there's a

bunch of video evidence

I think he's trying to say since the

cars are in the same photos it's a setup

oh okay well in that case well I'll show

you what the setup is okay so this is 8

37 PM is when he posted these photos 8

37 PM is when they were posted right so

here I am

and this is at 902 pm 902 pm okay

trying to say that it was just how

it was literally 20 minutes in between

yeah this is there's no like he can cope

all he [ __ ] wants

but it's over it's literally over

he [ __ ] lost

we don't even have to spend time with

this [ __ ] [ __ ] this we don't have

to spend time with this anymore it's

over the whole [ __ ] thing is over

like this is defeat this is Hitler and

his bunker right now it's just defeat

you can cope all you want I mean Hitler

in his bunker he had all crazy ideas he

said oh no we still have a chance we

still you don't have a chance it's over

Berlin is gonna fall

Berlin is gonna fall bottle is gonna

fall bonal is gonna fall it's simple as

that it's the delusions of Hitler in his

bunker right now

oh is he trying to say that the guy had

to have been there

oh I get it

oh okay I get what you're saying yeah

someone went there and took those photos

oh okay I'm gonna say this okay I get it

now

oh I get it now

he is trying to say that

Ellen must have been there to take this

photo

no he could have easily gotten someone

to take them

plus even if he did why wasn't he there

when I showed up

now I get it yeah he couldn't wait 15

minutes

saying it's your car that's not my car

that's not my car

yeah these were taken from within 20

minutes of each other

here

someone literally lives in the area

who was coming to film it

it's pretty likely it was them

clearly came through a text yeah

why did you fake going there that's so

lame

on this is the beginning of the cope

this is all I wanted all I wanted was

like all I wanted was to win the Normie

thing if you show this to a normie

they're gonna be like yeah Oz was right

there's no way out of this right so

whoever lives in a cult is like if if

you're gonna agree with Destiny here you

you're in a cult you're like and and

that's fine you can have your call I

don't want to win you guys I just want

the the normies to know the people who

aren't Allied to either of us to know

who the who the [ __ ] Victory who the

W goes to here and it's clearly me

you know I don't really give a [ __ ] with

Destiny's cult copes about this

yeah who sounds like a conspiratorial

Tanki now

it's literally unbelievable cope

it's unbelievable cope

here's pogan

no it doesn't actually you know what

guys you go explain to pogan who

explained to pogan because I don't I

don't feel like I should have to do this

go explain to him that someone else

could have clearly taken that also ask

Hogan when he's gonna debate me

right I don't feel like I even have to

interact with this peasant so you go

ahead and tell him

go ahead and tell him someone else could

have taken that [ __ ] photo and when

he's gonna debate me

that's pogan right

yeah he's drawing attention to a [ __ ]

parking space now he's [ __ ] done dude

oh my God this feels so good

and this was like the easiest thing ever

showed the photo while you were on

stream

yeah wait so are they saying I took that

photo when I was literally streaming I

was literally streaming while that photo

was taken match up the times I mean you

know you guys were there to see that but

match up the times if you don't [ __ ]

believe it

oh man this feels so good all right guys

I didn't know what to expect tonight I

really didn't and I thought this might

end really badly actually and it ended

in like the easiest possible way for me

like literally nothing even had to

happen for me to prove them wrong what

an easy W holy [ __ ]

foreign

guys

Rejoice because Berlin is about to be

taken that's all I have to say rejoice

because now Begins the fall of Berlin

now begins to Fall Obama rejoice

it's over the thing is

Alex Jones and Nick donated five dollars

you already won the battle the Press can

attempt to change the story as much as

they like but the record shows no need

to argue the decisive move of character

was done Germany was defeated now

prepare for the Cold War

yeah guys the thing is is that

Destiny's career has to end because

Destiny's career has entered into an arc

as evinced by how he spends his whole

Twitter feed and his streams of

attaching his credibility to a specific

image of my character right

Destiny can't exit this confrontation

with me either he has to be proven he

was right about me or he's going to get

proven wrong and his entire credibility

will be in shambles this is how Destiny

gives birth to other streamers and this

is how other streamers steal his clout

and surpass him okay so the thing that's

happening right now is you're witnessing

the precipice of an eclipse

okay Destiny his career is going to be

over I'm not exaggerating he has no way

out of this confrontation with me he

basically bet his entire the entirety of

his credibility

that a specific narrative he projected

about my image could be could be

maintained as consistent and that's done

now

that's done he was disproven and he was

punked out in front of his whole

community

he has absolutely no credibility anymore

it's over I mean there's no way to warm

yourself out of this I mean he tried to

say that I uh

I fabricated

I fabricated the whole thing to make

myself look good then he said I don't

know he posted circles in the image for

some reason

I don't even know what that's supposed

to mean

this is like Optics disaster damage

control

this is Optics damage control mode you

know

this is Optics control damn this is yeah

this is just damage control at this

point he's like he's like scrambling

like spin this in the the way that makes

me look the worst and he can't

Hogan is asking how to get in VC

uh join the Discord the [ __ ]

join the Discord

join the Discord let's do it we can

debate him now oh [ __ ] holy [ __ ]

he's finally come to beg to suck my [ __ ]

because I actually [ __ ] um

surpassed him I mean well I've always

surpassed him but now I've gotten enough

okay just join our Discord and we'll

remember you up immediately

it's over for Destiny it's honestly this

is like

this is like this is cope you can't

yeah Alex Jones and he donated three

dollars ultimately this is a battle of

character who is worth following a

crackhead clock or a man of Valor in

character there will be many challenges

till the top but today it was a

successful one no two ways about it

I just got like I think I just got

bonded with followers so bear that in

mind guys I just got like a ton of new

followers

I don't know what that's about

this has happened before

yeah that's the thing he's living in

Hassan's Shadow and now he just be he

just initiated the process like the die

is cast he's gonna be living in my

shadow before you know it

it's over

guys

I'm so [ __ ] happy holy [ __ ]

all I wanted was an opportunity to

disprove them literally all I wanted is

an opportunity to test all of the things

they've been saying about me and I I it

was easier than I could have imagined I

don't know what I did to deserve this

but I just want to thank God I want to

thank God for this

yeah this was I want to really thank God

for this you know

most of all

this could have turned out really bad

guys could have turned out really bad

but my honor was on the line

and now I don't have to do this [ __ ]

anymore right this was where I said okay

no matter what happens this will be the

last and whatever I'll risk it

now you guys know that everything

they've been saying about me was wrong I

mean that everything they said about my

character was wrong it's not just that

they were wrong about this

and they got disproven like go back in

time and re-analyze all the [ __ ] they

used to say about what happened to me

you're gonna [ __ ] see I was right

this is all I wanted I just wanted this

[ __ ] opportunity for truth it's not

about Russia it's not about Ukraine it's

not about communism it's not about

liberalism or capitalism it's just about

truth I just wanted an opportunity to

prove the truth that's all I [ __ ]

wanted all I wanted was an opportunity

to prove the truth it's not even about

an ideology I'm it's not about

persuading which ideology is more

compelling it's just truth all I wanted

the reason I have so much anger the

reason I was yelling so much

earlier the reason it made me so [ __ ]

angry was because there's a truth here

and out there that for some reason I was

never able to just

prove to to the public and I could I

could do it today like I was able to do

it tonight and you have no [ __ ] idea

how happy that makes me

you have no idea how calming it is to me

same car at the gas pumps the photos

were posted within a 20-minute window

I was there 20 minutes later of course

it's going to be the same car

what is that even supposed to prove

The [ __ ] isn't so cute great

great

excellent

hold on

let's get him in

what up [ __ ] hey how's it going hey

how's it going

so pogan let me ask you a question

uh-huh yeah Destiny's right huh

what about the uh the [ __ ] thing the

you at the gas station or whatever yeah

he's right I it what what exactly did it

prove go ahead

oh I don't know it seemed pretty obvious

the goal was just to get you upset I

don't know oh but I thought I was a

[ __ ] and I wasn't gonna show up what

happened

I don't think I ever said you were a

[ __ ] and you weren't gonna show up okay

let's see exactly what you said and

we're gonna go off of that sure

Bogan wait wait just to clarify is this

what you wanted to talk about no we're

going to talk about everything don't

worry

okay so uh you said this is not looking

good for AK-47 what exactly is not

looking good

oh I don't know uh

why is your voice trembling two things

were circled then

you seemed pretty upset I was the gist

you seem currently upset so is that the

extent of your ability to analyze things

Beyond this like is this your view of

politics and do you like do you hold

your understanding of politics and

history and Theory to the same criteria

to which you claim I'm not looking good

as a result of this picture

oh I'd certainly hope not there wasn't

much analysis here

it's like very obvious but this was a

statement you made right

yeah that's correct yeah so this is a

claim you made right

what was the claim the claim was that

it's not looking good for me

well I mean you don't really need a lot

of help doing that one why isn't this

looking good for me what does this thing

what is Destiny saying here that depends

do you want to start at the beginning or

do you want to just talk about this

particular thing

this is what it's about it's not looking

good for me because of these green

circles what about them let me just get

a a little piece of gum here my breath

smells like [ __ ] it's been a while since

work two seconds

alrighty um so your question is what's

not looking good for you about the

picture where the things are circled is

that correct correct

um you're responding to a troll

what but that's not what that's not what

that picture was referring to the

picture was referring to the circles

you're confused I don't give a [ __ ] what

the picture's referring to you're being

I'm confused wait wait so now you're

gonna backtrack well that's actually not

what you said

in the replies is it

well I mean it is the same picture so it

proves no it's not it's a minimum that

no no no yeah what I mean it's a car see

the car it's over at the gas so now now

you're back pedaling now it's not about

being baited by a troll now it's about

the car those two things are compatible

Haas okay so what is significant about

these car the same car being here what

does that imply what I said not the guy

was there roughly around the same time

he at least went to the spot right if he

was there why did is there a DM that

proves He Never Left Chicago what am I

the NSA I don't [ __ ] know

so it seems like your ability to

interpret facts is at the very least

somewhat flawed

I mean it seems like the primary

intention was to get you upset are you

denying that you're upset wait but

it how does it prove that he was there

when it's just as plausible that someone

else could have came and taken these

photos and sent it to him after all he

was I mean he was in the DMS with

someone who lives in the area who said

they were going to come to film it yeah

yeah let me just let me just cut clarity

your reason for thinking that I have

poor analytical skills is I quote

tweeted something from Destiny yeah it's

like two things circled which is

obviously an attempt to like rile you up

no evidently he's contributing some kind

of significance to the cars

well yeah so what significance what is

significant about the cars that the

individual in question was roughly there

around the same time unless you think he

was photoshopping or like it's a fake

picture or something no wait but hold on

that's why you have poor analytical

skills because there is nothing

necessary or even likely about that

conclusion

you're you're saying he could have just

gotten it off like what Google Images he

could have he was in if you actually

understood the breadth of evidence here

first of all the time span in which he

said he was coming from Chicago why do

you take [ __ ] like this so seriously

because I take very seriously how people

draw conclusions from available evidence

sir he couldn't you're confused he

couldn't disproportionate like balance

of like giving a [ __ ] here right you're

over here yeah

this is hold on we're gonna be here why

even refer to okay pogan but this is

about my character and my character is

also tied right the token let me explain

this to you logically you're like a

logic Lord right so the reason why the

reason why you are willing to um attack

my character is because of my political

views correct so I then get to draw

conclusions about your analytical skills

when it comes to politics in theory when

you [ __ ] [ __ ] up like this you know it's

the only reason you're interacting with

me in this way on Twitter or interacting

with my image and credibility and

character which you claim to not give a

[ __ ] about is because you disagree with

me when it comes to the meat and

potatoes substance when it comes to

Theory politics and history and etc etc

right so yes so the way in which you

actually judge my character I get to

actually hold that to the standard of

your politics and Theory I actually

right here's here's a surprising

statement right you'll be shocked at

this one I actually think you're

unfairly maligned uh with respect to

your character so let me explain

um I do disagree with you politically

and I think the [ __ ] you advocate for

politically is like really bad it

shouldn't be advocated for yada yada

however

um

I generally take this like

um Twitter stuff like the whole

[ __ ] tits bottle and the responses from

him and this like now car thing whatever

like the way you interact with people

um

unless you want to give me a reason to

think otherwise I kind of assumed you

were always playing a character

now that's not to say that you don't

have legitimate political views I'm sure

you're like a Marxist and you genuinely

advocate for like you know some flavor

of socialism that you cooked up or read

about whatever but I do think you play

this up for like you know views and

subscribers I don't think I think that's

pretty transparent okay so when it comes

to issues pertaining to my character and

you're wrong about them you're willing

to say you were wrong

what was I wrong about you were wrong

about the fact that there's anything

significant that you were implying about

the cars being there you're wrong about

the fact that's not true that I splitted

what was significant about the uh what

well yeah what you stated was

significant about them doesn't hold up

it doesn't hold up that the guy took a

picture of the same exact location not

when you actually analyze the available

evidence pertaining to the situation he

could not physically have possibly taken

those photos

um he admitted when I asked you when I

asked you if you got it off like Google

images or something similar you said no

sorry you gotta where to get them

we're gonna be here all night trust me

you'll have plenty of chances go ahead

and point it out yeah the point is like

just going off that alone you're

actually wrong in saying that it's not

evidence it is evidence for this no it's

not yes it is it doesn't reflect the

available breadth of evidence which is

what I said the reason to think it's not

evidence

the available breadth of evidence

includes DMS in which he talked to

someone who lives in the area who

expressed the intention of coming here

but it doesn't end there the the person

in question was supposed to show up the

guy who wanted to confront me he even

admitted in those DMS that he had no

intention of leaving Chicago whatsoever

and he just wanted to make me drive

there so those are two pieces of like

damning evidence that are available that

are part of the available bridge I do

think he got it off Google Images no

Hogan you are genuinely a stupid person

do you just hear what I said there's

somebody who knows there is someone who

lives in the area

we took those photos and sent them to

him but doesn't that just confirm that

the whole point all along was to troll

you then if you're gonna go with this

like conspiracy theory that Destiny

reached out to somebody who he knew okay

sure this was all controlling okay then

let's ask this this question why did

Destiny then say that this whole thing

was faked to make me look good

practically admitting that it does make

me look good

uh I don't think I saw that one can you

show me that tweet it's right here sure

uh where are you posting it

it's on stream right now

oh I'm not watching your stream I'm like

in pajamas right now well it's right I

don't care what you're wearing pogan

well I don't you call them hey hey let's

not let's not you know just don't jump

to conclusions I think you might care

what if I have like a like a little

infrared red blue purple Globe shirt

what about that okay Bogan I think you

uh you got the wrong hotline that you're

calling right now because you're about

to be in a debate I thought you were a

chat alpha male

Hogan let's not uh pivot away from the

substance of the what's under contention

okay go ahead please proceed you were

wrong

about the way in which you responded to

claims about my character

uh I don't agree with you

well how can you not agree with me when

you just said that this thing Destiny

posted proves that the guy had to have

been here

I think that's still a possibility

but how is that a possibility when he

admitted in his DMS with someone else

that he had no intention of coming

whatsoever

uh I can only conclude it's a CIA State

Department fraudulent so you lost

excellent now pogan the reason why do

you think the reason yeah like the

reason I undergo these exercises with

you is because I want to give the chat a

warm-up about your ability to debate

overall when it comes to more serious

topics that's true I I have yeah uh

black mold brain so we can express that

if I actually corner you when it comes

to a serious topic you're going to

respond in a similar way right

I don't know that has that is what I'm

about to demonstrate now there's one

more thing I want to get to really

quickly before we talk about uh the

substance of can I can I make one quick

comment no you don't mind so here's what

I'm gonna ask you Hogan

I distinctly recall that while I was

suspended from twitch for 30 days uh you

weren't a twitch streamer you were a

YouTuber right you made YouTube videos

that's not an excuse

I actually challenge you to a debate

multiple times and how did you respond

to those challenges

uh are you referring to the combo we had

in DMs

yeah what changed

uh I didn't get a clear position from

you that's my recollection well nothing

changed so why are you coming here now

people ask me to be here and I'm bored

ah so you weren't bored back then

I mean I would hope that at least

something to get from this would be

entertainment value that's secured ah so

Bogan Bogan uh it doesn't have anything

to do with the fact that back then I was

a 200 Andy and I'm a 1K Andy is that

anything to do with it I don't even know

what Andy means it means that's my

average viewers

congratulations how's that been uh going

for you

Hogan it kind of sounds like my slogan

Hogan is a [ __ ] Hogan is a [ __ ] has

been even further confirmed you came

crawling

on my [ __ ] feet while I'm sitting on

a throne of gold when I invited you

while I was [ __ ] uh sitting on a

throne in a tent

now you're [ __ ] here groveling before

me you want to debate me now and nothing

changed what changed Logan actually

technically your fans just said uh my

fans have always pestered you to debate

me no wait listen listen to the

statement

they said come VC

I'm here to VC they've always said that

okay so you are not here to debate

you're not here to debate okay well give

me a proposition if you'd like to debate

us

what prop is what do you want to debate

about

it's up to you go ahead

I mean my videos are public so are yours

pick a position go for it okay I'll give

you a proposition but I will not afford

you the ability to make assumptions

about this proposition ready can you

explain what that means I'm not really

it means it means when I make this

proposition you can't make assumptions

about what it means if you can ask

clarifying questions about its

implications but you can't draw the

conclusion that it's it's loaded with

all these other conclusions ready

so let's begin yeah go for it

you are wrong

about the details surrounding Russia's

invasion of Ukraine

okay and well actually you made a video

saying that I lied uh about the

situation what did I lie about

uh the representation of Ukraine as

staunchly Neo-Nazi sympathetic and

somehow

beholden to like Ultra Ukrainian

nationalism in the way that you were

describing in addition to forwarding the

idea that

um there's some reason de facto to

believe that Ukraine is in possession of

bioweapons facilities merely based on

the statements made by Russian

scientists beautiful so there's it's

actually two-pronged

so the first prong refers to the

over-representation of neo-nazis in the

Ukrainian government and in the

Ukrainian State as well as the

overwhelming prevalence of Ukrainian

Ultra nationalism in defining the state

of Ukraine right and the second thing is

about the as Victoria Newland called

them research facilities within Ukraine

so can I ask uh real quick can I ask a

clarifying question sure um when you

when you say

like Ukraine is Neo-Nazi blah blah blah

blah

um I take it you're referring to

something further than as of

um yes what's your take on and you don't

like this is we'll get into the meat and

potatoes here as you like to say in a

second what's your take on things like

uh Wagner group and Russian government

you know Wagner group is not tied to the

Russian government in any official

capacity it's not given any official

sanction whatsoever oh yeah that's I

well of course I agree but the point is

that it's not tied to the government

officially right because it provides

plausible deniability for Wagner group

operations on the behalf of the Kremlin

all right do you have any evidence of

these operations being on behalf of the

Kremlin

depend well let's CL do you when you say

on behalf do you mean the operations are

conducted in tandem with Russian

military forces to achieve Russian

strategic objectives I'm asking you for

evidence that the Russian government is

ordering the Wagner group to do things

to fulfill its own aims

seems like that would be conducive to

I'm sorry consistent with plausible

deniability oh so you have no proof

well I mean you don't have any proof

about the Neo-Nazi Wagner is a private

military company what is azov

uh it's a member it's a component of the

Ukrainian National Guard

right and

and your claim is that because azov is a

component it's not just because of azov

well I I grasp that right but I'm saying

like you're so let me just be come on

let me just just chill out man the

relevance of pointing out that azov is a

component of the Ukrainian National

Guard presumably

right correct me if I'm wrong here it's

to point out that because it's uh

directly reporting to the Ukrainian

government at least in some capacity

that's reason to make what conclusion

that Ukraine's government is Neo-Nazi

sympathetic overall

that they're only intolerant of

neo-nazis that's the minimal conclusion

if we discount the host of other facts

such as such as the fact that the azov

battalion is extremely over represented

when it comes to the military operations

that are undergone in eastern Ukraine

when it comes to the fact that Ukrainian

officials claim that azov was the quote

the best of Ukraine's Fighters uh when

you take into account finally the fact

that the azov Battalion is not even the

only Ultra nationalist Neo-Nazi

Battalion within Ukraine you also have

the Adar Battalion you have a picture of

the Ukrainian armed forces that

overwhelmingly shows

um Neo-Nazi sympathetic elements being

extremely overrepresented aha

right okay so do you further believe

that that's reason to invade the country

of Ukraine

uh that is not well you just shifted the

goal post we're talking about whether

neo-nazis have overwhelming

over-representation in the Ukrainian

State how did I shift the goal posts

without making a claim because the

question of the the question of the

justification for Russia's Invasion

would have to lead to more prongs right

I just I just asked two questions the

first was do you think what like what's

the relevance of azov with respect to

their Ukrainian government that was

question one question two was what do

you think uh is the relevance of that in

terms of justifying Russian military

operations there's an overall context

that needs to be clarified before we can

uh

explore that question and just give me

let me open like a notepad document here

one second

just just to clarify um would you be

willing to stay like right now for my

benefit you believe the Russian invasion

is Justified correct yes but okay cool

um and a component of that justification

is their objective to denotsify the

country is that right yes

okay

um and you think as of in addition to

some other things you'll mention I'm

sure in a second

is a reason to think that

the I I doubt you would say like the

majority of the Ukrainian population is

Nazi sympathetic right no

Okay cool so it's just the government

then

uh I would call it the Deep state

what does that mean so there's two

levels of every modern government in the

world except with actually a few

exceptions uh China and Russia actually

being among them where you have the

official state with like its official

parties and Parliament and

representation and then you have like

the military and the intelligence

operatives and oligarchs and also Thug

militias that are receiving orders from

these elements basically like people who

pull the strings in a non-official

capacity

okay so you so you generally think

denotsification is one of a set of

reasons that another country can invade

another country

yeah

um no not in a vacuum not as some kind

of abstract precepting a cumulative case

denotification is part of the wider

context of the geographic and historical

realities of Ukraine and Russia

but it's just a government I thought

because you remember when I said is the

population generally Nazi sympathetic

you weren't you said you weren't willing

to make what's the relevance of the

population not being overwhelmingly Nazi

sympathetic the fact that a whole

[ __ ] ton of them are getting killed

right now by Russian military forces

how many exactly

I'm sure it's in the thousands you want

an exact number

you're not like I actually feel like

there's are you doubting civilians have

died I don't know I'm not hold on I'm

not denying there's been um collateral

damage right so what does the number

matter

the number matters the number matters

because

the number matters because if Russia's

waging like a systematic effort to

Target civilians and engage in a

genocide or something like that then yes

your argument would no no I didn't

understand they were genociding

ukrainians I made the claim that if it's

the case that you think at least one

component of the justification for the

invasion is denotsification right then

you'd have to further say something like

well that's going to either alone or as

part of a cumulative case justify the

civilian casualties inflicted as a

consequence of this Invasion right I

don't know the exact number I'm pretty

sure it's in the thousands if you

[ __ ] really want it I'll find it

although those are going to be Western

sources though you'll probably just I

don't scream about it so the point is

your point is not relevant you do

Ukrainian neon population does not have

to be Neo-Nazi sympathetic in order for

collateral damage of civilians

the government is Neo-Nazi sympathetic

but the point I'm making is if the

objective is to denounceify Ukraine

part of that objective means

demilitarizing Ukraine uh and defeating

the azerb Battalion and the in these

elements Slow Down slow down we're

getting ahead of ourselves now it's

demilitarizing Ukraine

we were talking about denotsification

well they're hand in hand because the

Nazis in question are overwhelmingly

represented within the military

okay wait it is the view of the Russian

government as a matter of fact that the

military is in control of Ukraine and

not even the president zielinski I don't

doubt that I don't doubt that the there

are elements of the Ukrainian armed

forces that are Neo-Nazi right even

Beyond pretty much every standing

military in the world especially Western

ones yeah but Ukraine has a

disproportionate uh and

over-representation of neo-nazis

relative to almost any military anywhere

else in the world

are you saying that the majority of the

Ukrainian military is Nazi sympathetic

the majority of immune conscripts or the

military establishment I'm just trying

to get this is the same problem we had

in DMs like a year ago right I'm trying

to get clarity on what exactly it is

you're claiming and it seems like you're

very careful not to say just exactly

what you mean what I'm hearing is this

you can correct me if I'm mistaken here

right

you think that the Ukrainian armed

forces are somehow kind of like innately

or at this point I would call them not

so fun

okay as like a CO as like an institution

collectively yeah the people the upper

eclons that run that institution yes

they're not supplied is the source for

that claim primarily Russian reporting

um it has to do with the

over-representation of neo-nazis in the

ukrainians military operations that's

not the question I asked you the

question I asked you I answered your

question and some no it's not simply

because of Russian sources I don't know

what the source has what are the other

sources

um I don't think it's contested that 10

to 15 000 of the total of the Ukrainian

National Guard are part of battalions

that are Ultra nationalist neo-nazis

but your claim is that the Ukrainian

armed forces simplicator are nazified

yeah how many how many how many units

total are in the Ukrainian Armed Forces

do you know uh I know that there's 50

000 in the National Guard so so even by

presumably the sources that you're

referring to which I'll take your word

they're not just Russia but at least

some of it's going to be Russia right

even by that standard less than what

like let's do some quick math right uh

it's been a while since I've done yeah

but before you do the math just to be

clear

it's not relevant because I never

claimed that the majority of cons so 30

percent

roughly right 30 so let me just explain

to you basic logic the majority of

conscripts within the Ukrainian armed

forces are now that's if that's that

hold on don't interrupt me the majority

of constructs are not neo-nazis what

reflects an armed forces in its actual

character has to do with the intentions

that are directed at the level of

leadership that Define it as an

institution conscripts are just ordinary

people okay and even even

no we're not getting off hold on we're

not getting off track now because it is

not a neces it is not true that there

has to be a majority of conscripts that

are neo-nazis in order for the Armed

Forces to be claimed to be something

that's nazified I didn't say it was

dependent on the majority of this so why

are you pointing out that there is and

this is all this is a really waiting

only because 30 is still a [ __ ] on

well that's again yeah I agree but

that's assuming the sources that you

haven't provided to me are legitimate

but we'll just grant that they are

because I like to be charitable

according to a BBC documentary c14 runs

the ministry of Defense

are you done

well say what you want to say

yeah so let's assume that the sources

you're using for this 30 uh UK AF claim

are legitimate

um and I'd like to just say on like one

topic here instead of jumping all over

the place you are saying that the

government of Ukraine

zelenski as their president is beholden

to this military and therefore the

Russian campaign of denodification is

Justified now that's going to depend on

a number of things being substantiated

the first thing it's going to depend on

uh substantiation for is that the

numbers that high I haven't heard a

source for that yet the second thing is

going to depend just just real quick the

second thing it's going to depend on is

a reason to think the government in the

way that you're describing is actually

beholden to these ultra-nationalist

elements in the Ukrainian military right

which is which itself is a claim that

requires evidence so

you if you can show me both of those

things if you can show me the numbers

are accurate

um the evidence like checks out there's

no problems with methodology there's no

like very obvious like implicit bias in

the reporting and then you can also show

that there's reason to think zelenski

the administration is really just um

subservient to like

uh what'd you call it the Ukrainian

generals right the the highest echelons

of the military

um that'd be cool so what exactly are

you asking for

I just stated clearly what I was asking

for you it there was nothing clear about

what you asked whatsoever give me

something precise you want

what do you I that's like insane to say

I asked for evidence evidence

I just told you the first thing about

the Ukrainian government is notified

or I should say that deliberately that's

a deliberately unnuanced take Ukrainian

state is notified is that a question

you're looking for uh sorry I just

stated the two things that I'm looking

for evidence for you want evidence that

the 30 claim holds

yeah I want evidence that the number of

people who you described as Nazi

sympathetic like that's an accurate it's

not the number of Nazi sympathetic

people it's a number of battalions that

are in their official as organizations

are Ultra nationalists and or neo-nazis

okay yeah so do you have a source for

that one and then we'll tackle the

second one afterwards sure someone get

the source and put it in fact checking

wait you don't have the source on hand I

don't have it on hand

okay

someone go ahead and put it in fact

checking but the combined battalions

which comprise 10 to 15 000. this uh

based underscore superstructure

gentleman posted something from The Gray

Zone

is that the

is that the one that you remember

I don't think it's here

okay all right

all right well I mean like hopefully you

can understand the point that I'm making

because you know I'm I like to pride

myself as a relatively anti-nazi person

and you know when this war first

happened and everybody by the way it's

being the gray zone is not going to be

relevant

uh considering the fact that you have to

question where this primary sources are

coming from it doesn't matter like

primary sources in this way but the

primary source would still stand I don't

actually want you to be angry like all I

did was chuckle I didn't say it was like

[ __ ] or anything on its face I just

did a little laugh you know someone go

ahead and post not everything's like the

end of the world you know post the

combined numbers of all those battalions

all you really have to do is tally them

up

like all you literally have to do is

take all like you have to do two things

I have to prove to you these battalions

are neo-nazis or nationalists and then I

have to prove to you that the numbers of

the people who constitute those

battalions are accurate

uh sorry I kind of zoned out at the

second part but the first part yeah

correct yeah okay how would I be able to

do that for you I mean you well for the

first thing with the numbers you

specifically cited that you had evidence

you further said it was actually no I'm

talking about proving that they are

neo-nazis in the first place

you want the numbers first

you made the claim they were neo-nazis

yeah right so that's on that's your

burden right you would have to okay okay

so is the azov Battalion Neo-Nazi yes

yeah okay is the idar Battalion neo-Nazi

uh I don't know what that is show me

something about it okay where do you oh

you can DM me I don't think you have me

blocked or anything I can only DM

friends

do you want to be my friend Haas

absolutely not yeah practice

okay all right fine just put it in like

uh uh fact checking or whatever I don't

care all right so this is the idar

Battalion you can just look at the

Wikipedia and it's in fact checking the

idar Battalion is right here and

Wikipedia

sure

and we'll work just to clarify we're

working our way up very gradually to 30

right that's the number that you cited

is that correct that's what you said I

said 10 to 15 000 of Ukraine's National

Guard

out of 50 000 standing military units

right which would be 30 percent

right and compared to the Ukrainian

Armed Forces at Large

uh depending on whether or not you want

to combine standing and reserved

Personnel that's up to you but we'll

just go with standing to be charitable

Ukraine has 200 000 active military

personnel

200 000 active Okay so that would be

point zero seven five percent of the UK

oh sorry I didn't multiply by a hundred

don't believe me on that one 7.5 percent

of the military

no this is also something Destiny did

why do you think that the conscripts

are what's going to define instant what

defines an institutions ideological

orientation I didn't say it did I'm

saying it is not even material or

relevant to an institution's ideological

orientation of the number of conscripts

it's literally not even kind of you kind

of just [ __ ] yourself because if it's

not relevant to the like ideology of the

institution you wouldn't be fighting it

you are using it as evidence

but you're the one who asked for the

conscripts in the first place I never

attributed to them significance

I

doesn't even I clarified to you even

before we talked about it that it was

like it doesn't even matter because

that's not what defines an institution

like that was very early on in our

argument about it you want proof of that

it's the 30 or whatever

um so whoever listed them lists all the

battalions again and we'll just tally up

their total members yeah so the problem

is if you thought it doesn't really

matter if I asked or not because you

saying in response to that question

because I remember I asked you

originally no it wasn't in response hold

on hold on hold on you can correct me in

a second

when I asked you like hey cause you know

good bud if you think they're like

neo-nazis and denotification is one of

the many acceptable justifications for

Russian military operations right what

what do you know what you're going to

point to as of right I said kind of

mockingly and you said oh well there's

more battalions than just as of you know

there's 15 000 [ __ ] total standing

Neo-Nazi pieces of Fit And I said Okay

cool so let's get the evidence for that

right that's how the conversation went

down and I'm just pointing out to you

now wait hold on I promise okay hold on

then you said after I said that you said

that that's not a majority and then I

said it doesn't matter if it's not a

majority if it's only 10 to 15 000

um because and then I made the argument

in question okay so I'm not even

Shifting the goal posts and you're

saying okay I want the evidence actually

of the amount right are you conceding

that the number well actually we can

take a step back on that one are you now

saying that the presence of neo-nazis in

the Ukrainian military is not germane to

whether or not the Ukrainian military is

Neo-Nazi at its for like has a

fundamental Neo-Nazi ideology or

whatever that's what I'm hearing Hogan

just a question

are you a [ __ ] idiot

on Tuesdays maybe this day Tuesday so

look at what you just said the presence

of neo-nazis

what does what constitutes that presence

are we talking about in the leadership

are we talking at an Institutional level

or are we talking about conscripts

because I'm not saying that the evidence

that's your claim was that the

government was Neo-Nazi the state yes

yeah yeah yeah so why do so why even

mention the conscripts at all why give

me a number I don't know I don't know

why we're talking you're just confused

you just randomly threw a number you are

the one who wanted to talk about the

conscripts I did mention the several

other battalions whose combined total is

thirty thirty percent number of

conscripts of the Ukrainian armed forces

are the conscripts evidence for the Neo

the government being Neo-Nazi no but the

battalions are that's what I'm trying to

tell you it's not about the conscripts

it's about Italian battalions right okay

and the number of total the number of

conscripts that are under the battalions

relative to the Ukrainian Armed Forces

is What's significant not the conscripts

themselves how many

okay so you're saying the battalions are

the evidence for the government being no

Nazis so how many

how many soldiers total are in these

specifically Neo-Nazi battalions like

all together

so the exact thing we just went over for

the last 30 minutes is relevant then

despite what you're saying

right because that is hold on the

denipero okay finally we got a deniper

battalion idar as of genipur one deniper

two and Don bass volunteer militias uh

of Italian is that's okay so the minimum

is seven thousand

uh and the military analysts have

claimed that azov has gone to a brigade

of three thousand so there's at least

ten thousand we actually know it's at

least ten thousand we know of

I'm gonna talk

in fact checking

sure cool out of a standing active duty

military of like 200. we're talking

about the Ukrainian National Guard right

now

okay how many did you've been conducting

the majority of the operations

uh if not all the operations oh wait but

we just wait wait wait wait just just

two seconds we just went over both the

military itself right the 200k figure as

well as what I thought you gave as the

total National Guard standing personnel

which was 50k is that correct

what's your point

the numbers that I've been providing you

for the last 20 minutes are still

completely relevant

that it's only 7.5 percent

the 7.5 is the Ukrainian Armed Forces

collectively it was 30 if you want to

just look at the national yeah what is

significant about it yeah what is

significant about nearly yeah what

sorry I just had to knock on your door

um yeah it's 30 just with the National

Guard that was the point

okay what is your point what's the point

of that I guess what is your point

that's still a lot you started throwing

these numbers at me presumably as a way

to further the claim that well Ukraine

quote unquote was a Neo-Nazi country

which by by which you really meant the

government is Neo-Nazi uh like has a

Neo-Nazi idea when did I say Ukraine is

a Neo-Nazi country

I mean that's that I said the Ukrainian

State and more specifically the Deep

state is nazified

right and you gave those battalions as

evidence by your own admission right uh

as one of the pieces of evidence for

that sure okay so just let's just get

down to the the nitty-gritty

one of the pieces of evidence you have

for the Ukrainian government being Nazi

is the fact that 30 percent of the

National Guard AKA 7.5 percent of the

total UK sorry Ukrainian Armed Forces

standing personnel

is Nazi uh sympathetic or holds Nazi

ideology according to sources that I

have not been provided including

presumably the Russian government's own

reports so what are what are we arguing

about the sources or granting that this

is just true because if I provide you

the sources I'm sure you have an

argument lined up right

okay so this is this is a source a

source for the list of battalions funded

by kolominski who's one of the Ukrainian

oligarchs wait but this is the same Gray

Zone article you said earlier it's

literally Wikipedia

oh you're not so you're not talking

about the thing that based

superstructure guy dude posted it's

literally something warlock just listed

on Wikipedia

uh Chris Morlock The Gray Zone if you

want to fall into question the primary

source is utilized by the grace of an

article you're more than welcome to I

don't know why you're jumping on me for

for things that aren't coming out of my

mouth I didn't say anything about like

gray Zone's primary sources what I said

is

look I'll just restate the problem okay

okay you are saying you are saying look

at both of them

I will in a second you are saying that

the Ukrainian government is a Nazi

government one of the pieces of evidence

for this claim is the presence of

neo-naziability you want to grant me the

fact and then make your argument then

I mean I would have to look at I know

azov is Neo-Nazi I'd have to look at the

other battalions okay so are you going

to grant me the facts okay but then make

your own I can grant it for the sake of

argument but even if I grant it right

just inductively right because of how

like probabilistic evidence Works how

induction Works saying that it's it's

going to be strong evidence that the the

government is Nazi based on the presence

of neo-nazis and 30 of the guard and 7.5

percent of the Ukrainian Armed Forces

together

on its face is just weak evidence even

if you grant that the evidence is okay

that's what I wanted to get to so the

reason that's not true is because that

assumes that there's an equal proportion

of relevance in Ukrainian armed forces

in turning in terms of defining the

power of the institution and the

exercise of power thereof but as it

happens again that was confusing that

assumes there is an an equal that

assumes that like every single there's

an equal level of significance as far as

like the number of battalions and

conscripts are concerned in terms of how

heavily they weigh in defining the

institution of the Ukrainian Army I

don't know why I don't know why we're

talking you said the conscripts aren't

what's important what's important okay

look just focus on that seven seven

point five percent right

that assumes let's just do it in terms

of percentages then right so let's make

it clear I know you're a stupid person

so we're just going to make this

clearance okay so that is there's 7.5

and then there's 92 point 0.5 percent

right

well in order for these and ever in

order for the 7.5 percent to not be

strong evidence every percentage of the

total has to have equal representation

and significance in terms of defining

the institution

for example for example because this is

this is a complete tangent right no

offense look the point is 7.5 percent of

the Ukrainian armed forces being Nazi

sympathetic

right you're trying to why isn't that

good evidence I'm explaining what you're

missing is the connective tissue here

you need to connect that to the idea

that the Ukrainian government actually

more specifically the Ukrainian deep

State still I don't even really I've

been trying to do that but you cut me

off

okay fair enough so what's the

connective tissue there the connective

tissue is the fact that that's 7.5

percent has over representation in

defining the institution of the

Ukrainian armed forces and in terms of

as measured by its activities

so now the claim is that the 7.5 percent

is in fact I guess dictating the

ideology for the remaining 92.5 percent

implicitly more if we measure it based

on the activity of the Armed Forces yes

they are the Vanguard they are to quote

one of the the president of Ukraine at

the time um poroshenko the best of

Ukraine's Fighters and he was

referencing the azov the other

battalions have also behind azov been at

the Vanguard of operations in eastern

Ukraine which has defined the majority

of the war that had been going on for

eight years against the so-called

separatists in eastern Ukraine I think

you might actually be committing I

forget which one it is it's either the

composition fallacy or the opposite one

I forgot the name for it why but you're

trying to sure you're trying to

extrapolate without real evidence

because you're just I guess we're just

talking about like implications now

you're trying to extrapolate 7.5 percent

of the Ukrainian armed forces being

I guess explicitly in Neo-Nazi itself

requiring evidence that we still need to

look at into the remainder of the

Ukrainian armed forces and by extension

the Ukrainian government and the quote

unquote deep state is Nazi sympathetic

as a consequence of that

no Hogan the problem is that you're just

not a smart person I I understand we

don't know let's just have a blank slate

right to Bula rasa we don't know first

of all how significant that 7.5 percent

is I am not saying they are significant

ex nihilo what do you mean

you and I right now arguing we don't

know right then why then that if you

don't know what the importance of that

is it makes it no I do know but not

within the context of the initial

argument

so there's two arguments being so this

isn't evidence for your argument then

Hogan 7.5

nothing has nothing was clarified I

should say that's what I mean to say

nothing was said or clarified that's

what I mean we don't know we the

audience and you nothing was clarified

as to the question of how significant

they are now if every percentage of that

100 total is equally proportionate

um then you would be right 7.5 is not

strong evidence what do you mean by

proportionate

it seems like when you're saying

proportionate what you're meaning is

just the influence they have on the

collective ideology yeah

the disproportionate influence they they

okay well that's that's that by its very

nature unless you have evidence which I

would love to see okay I have evidence

like that the Azad Battalion no no no

listen listen to the thing before you

you assume what I'm gonna say

you're saying that that's 7.5 percent

has a disproportionate effect on the

overall ideology conviction why am I

saying that but why not you appeal to

the I understand you appeal to the quote

you referenced earlier no I'm not I'm

appealing to evidence that has not been

even brought up yet because you keep

[ __ ] interrupting me I'm referring to

the fact that the azov Battalion almost

single-handedly recaptured cities like

mariopol throughout the duration of the

Civil War you don't know how significant

these battalions are and that's

literally what I'm trying to tell you I

don't know you just don't know how

significant they are you're assuming

they're just as significant as every

other sector of Ukrainian Armed Forces

what they're not the facts show that

they're not

no I didn't make that assumption I just

gave you the number okay so why are you

saying 7.5 is not strong evidence when

you don't know whether it would be

strong evidence or not it would be

strong evidence it is strong evidence if

seven point if that's seven point five

percent was at the Vanguard of the their

operations then it would be good

evidence

I don't know what you mean by Vanguard

you're saying they were literally at the

Vanguard of operations in eastern

Ukraine for eight years well that's just

repeating your statement what I'm saying

is you're trying to make like some

implicit claim here that they have like

a disproportionate influence on the

ideology and belief system of the rest

of the military and I'm just they do not

only has no reason been provided for

that other than the quote that you read

I guess even like like it still doesn't

show me

all I would have to demonstrate can I do

you mind if I finish my salmon please go

ahead finish it it doesn't it doesn't

actually demonstrate that there's any

further reason to believe that the

initial claim which is uh that the

Ukrainian deep state government is Nazi

sympathetic has been raised in

probability to be true right you're

trying to make an inductive case and I

just don't see the induction really

panning out it's not kojo I I did pogan

because

I literally did

what do you mean I did

I didn't hear it

yeah only yeah it's like it's like only

nine percent of German Nazis were were

committed actively involved in the

Holocaust so what does that mean Nazism

but like does that mean like it's not

strong evidence well see the problem the

relationship between Nazism and the

Holocaust the reason that's disanalogous

is because pretty much every member of

the uh German armed forces the Vermont

the vaffin SS Etc right the should

staffel themselves pretty much every

element of them as a mere condition of

being sworn into the Nazi party and then

whatever military Detachment they were

sworn into had to directly swear loyalty

to Adolf Hitler a guy who has explicitly

said multiple times beginning in like

the late 20s that he [ __ ] hates

Jewish people right that's a complete

disanality that just because he hated

Jewish people does not actually mean

that they were directly complicit in the

Holocaust

now you're not understanding the point

the point is merely by me being like a

card-carrying Nazi party member right

you're throwing your loyalty to the guy

making these statements publicly and

being very very [ __ ] open and

transparent about it you you don't even

understand the analysis I'm not even

stating it as an analogy you don't no no

you don't understand the analogies it's

cool because I'm not popped out calm

down it's okay we're okay

the point is it's completely dis

analogous because I'm gonna let you

finish what you were saying just to

[ __ ] prove to you're wasting my time

so go ahead and finish your stupid

[ __ ] sentence Bogan I'm actually a

big fan of the game thing that was cool

finish it finish it finish it finish it

so you can shut your pig mouth go ahead

yeah so the point is there's unless you

have some secret tape recording of

zielinski saying like bro Nazis are dope

and [ __ ] my man uh there's no reason to

think that people won by being in the

Ukrainian Armed Forces subscribed to any

sort of ideology like that simplicator

too that

um because as of and of these other

battalions are referencing are

supposedly as you claim

disproportionately influential in the

ideology that by extension

a majority or even a significant

component of the Ukrainian Armed Forces

subscribe to anything resembling a Nazi

ideology that's what we're missing we

need some code you're gonna shut the

[ __ ] up no I have YouTube because this

has gone on too long Hogan my analogy

was not about I'm gonna mute them I

gotta mute this dumb [ __ ] you're gonna

shut up

you're gonna shut your pigment pig mouth

wink oink you're gonna suck your pig

mouth Hogan you're my favorite streamer

Brogan I wasn't trying to say that the

situation with the German Armed Forces

relative to Nazi ideology is the same in

the case of Ukraine I was saying only

nine shut the [ __ ] up you're getting

muted you're getting [ __ ] muted there

you go now the pig can shut the [ __ ] up

Bogan you have to very very carefully

listen to me like very slowly I know

you're a stupid [ __ ] your brain can't

handle this so listen very slowly trust

me you're gonna feel really stupid after

I say it what I said is that if we

assume nine percent of German Nazis were

actively involved in perpetrating the

Holocaust

your the analogy is to the 7.5 of the

Ukrainian Armed Forces but the object is

completely different one is about

Neo-Nazi ideology the other one is about

active involvement and culpability in

the Holocaust you made the assumption

that what I was talking about was Nazi

ideology in Germany these Neo-Nazi

ideology in Ukraine it's not what I'm

talking about I'm talking about the

proportion of a total political

organization

or Armed Forces

can

uh in terms of percentages

doesn't have to be anywhere near a

majority in order for the institution as

a whole to be defined by them those nine

percent of Nazis who perpetrated the

Holocaust defined almost the entirety of

nazism's Legacy as being responsible for

the Holocaust despite that it was only

nine percent okay now analogously

not just because of them but analogously

if 7.5 percent of Ukraine's armed forces

are neo-nazis

it is possible not necessary because

that requires more

um explanation but it is definitely

possible that that five seven point five

percent can more than easily Define the

institution of the Ukrainian Armed

Forces

as having Nazi Persuasions or as

something that's notified so that is my

argument very simply now you can respond

to what I actually said instead of

wasting my [ __ ] time

yeah that doesn't follow

um the reason it doesn't follow is

because when you're talking about the

7.5 percent of Ukrainian Armed Forces

um that are like Neo-Nazi or whatever

right let's Grant it for the sake of

argument you're talking about people

that though they may be explicit in

their beliefs and their political

ideology

the further claim that you're making the

one where you're talking about how

they're so influential on the rest of

the military is one that's just sort of

being thrown in there without further

cause or further explanation so I'll

explain why that's not the same as the

uh the veramachter like case in the case

of the Vermont the schutz staffel the

Waffen SS right uh those people not only

by being card-carrying Nazi Party

members explicitly subscribe to the

ideology of not relative the ideology it

is no no it's not the Holocaust not only

do they explicitly subscribe to the

ideology of Adolf Hitler right by being

in the party they actually further

um were divided up into detachments

typically tasked with carrying out the

objectives of the Holocaust

etc etc so what you're saying is that it

wasn't only nine percent

well I'm saying that well unless you

want to disagree I'm saying that because

those people were card carrying Nazi

Party members if they did not renounce

their party membership if they didn't

like actively take a stand against their

orders I think pretty much every German

military member is complicit in the

Holocaust to a varying okay then why

didn't you just say that you're just

saying then Haas you were wrong about

nine percent so let me actually um

rewind I did I just used then let's

let's rewind it by Saving ourselves time

and using a hypothetical what if only

nine percent of Nazis committed the

Holocaust and 91 percent had no clue

what was going on would nazism's Legacy

still be defined by the Holocaust

yeah why when only nine percent were

carrying it out

uh because every every member of the

Nazi military swears allegiance to Adolf

Hitler the guy carrying it out

okay sure so let me explain this to you

analogously okay

in the same way that in this

hypothetical that nine percent is

responsible you're not gonna say

zielinski's like a like a Nazi zelenski

doesn't lead the real Ukrainian state

that I'm claiming is notified

well that's important then because I'm

I'm gonna go off wait but Hogan

initially I said the Ukrainian deep

State I didn't say the official

Ukrainian State and zielinski so let's

be clear show me that the Ukrainian

military actually runs the government

then please hold on before we get there

that was an initial premise of this

entire engagement which you knew about

so if you want to talk about that we're

going to have to finish this one first

okay because you seem to got gotten us

somewhere without contesting it that's

actually not for what I could what I

conceded to was that the numbers you

threw out regarding the number

my claim is that the Ukrainian deep

State and including the Armed Forces was

nazified now you're talking about

zelenski okay so what you you've got not

true when I said do you think the

government is Nazi you said yes that's

not true because the real government of

you Ukraine has notified right so that

would mean if I said government and you

really meant deep State and I meant

which I clarified very early on and you

did not take any time to contest well we

can get into that but just to clarify

that doesn't mean like I'm prima facie

saying that I agree with the premise

that there is a deep State and that it's

run by the military but we got this far

without you challenging that premise

okay that's because we spent so now

we're gonna get here so so so so spoken

it actually doesn't matter who the real

president of Ukraine is because by

analogy these neonats these Neo-Nazi

battalions are a function of the

intentions of the Ukrainian State as an

institution in the same way that the

Holocaust was a function of the

intentions of the Nazi party right now

they run Adolf Hitler ran the uh the

German government right who what does it

matter who runs the government to

explain the relevance but it doesn't

listen let's say okay let's say Kermit

the Frog was the head of the Nazi party

then it doesn't make a difference as far

as their culpability in the Holocaust

does it it doesn't matter who runs I

explained why it did the reason it does

the reason it has relevance yeah and a

further reason for the disinology is

again because merely by joining the Nazi

party right you are agreeing to uh

follow the orders and you swear

allegiance to it off okay sure so merely

okay so the by announcement you're

familiar with that right you're familiar

with like how Nazis when they joined the

party they didn't swear loyalty to like

the constitution of Germany it's a party

it's I know what a party is spoken no no

no no it's more yeah why would a party

swear allegiance to the Constitution

careful when the party is not the stake

you dumbass it's a party because because

the Vermont right when they become

German soldiers German infantry whatever

they don't swear like you know how when

you join the military in America you're

like I Swear to protect and uphold

belongs to the German state

you're not under you're not a state and

a party are not the same thing you dumb

[ __ ] honestly you're not listening to me

when you join the US military you go I

swear loyalty to the Constitution of the

US and blah right when you became a

Vermont Soldier Vermont infantry you

didn't say [ __ ] anything like that

you said I swear loyalty to goddamn

Adolf Hitler and that's the point

chancellor of Germany hold on it's

almost done Adolf Hitler's on stage for

years prior to this saying the Jews are

the problem you swear loyalty to the

chancellor of the German state

are you saying that German infantry

soldiers did not swear loyalty directly

to Hitler

yes because he was the champion

historically incorrect about because he

was the chancellor of the German State

you are historically incorrect what am I

incorrect about they did in fact swear

loyalty I didn't deny that Bogan I said

it's because he's the chancellor of the

German State get the [ __ ] out of your

[ __ ] ears and stop wasting our time

you dumb [ __ ] pig

so you agree they swore loyalty to

Hitler yes who was the chancellor of the

German state

whatever but you agree they swore

because he was the chancellor of the

German State yes and he was an

anti-semite

yeah and you think like Germany yeah we

know he's an anti-semite you don't have

to say things we all know but the thing

is pogan the relevant point is that in

this hypothetical you just agreed that

if only nine percent of the members of

the Nazi party

committed the Holocaust right and 91 did

not that doesn't change the Nazi party's

culpability in the Holocaust no no

you're still missing the point the point

the reason why we would think the

culpability thing is different there is

because in the case of the Vermont right

you just agreed yeah they do swear

loyalty shut the [ __ ] up about the where

mocked yeah I have to do like a from

scratch thing because you're just

confused at this point let's let's do

the Cookie Monster I don't wanna we're

gonna we're gonna do the Cookie Monster

genocide so Elmo has an army of 5 000

people or he has a party of five

thousand people and there's a whole

specimen of Cookie Monsters right so

Elmo has only only two percent of Elmo's

army or his party is directly culpable

receiving orders from Elmo right

directly culpable in the genocide of

Cookie Monsters okay that still means

Elmo

as in his party as an institution is

responsible for the Cookie Monster

genocide even if only two percent of

people are perpetrating it yeah because

it expresses the intention of the

institution yeah it's that simple if you

establish an analogy between that and a

situation where not only do you

explicitly swear loyalty to I forget was

it Elmo or cook whatever well Elmo sure

you explicitly swear loyalty to Elmo and

Elmo has been spending the the last like

10 years really [ __ ] Railing at on

this particular about Cookie Monster

right yeah

yeah that's not going to be analogous to

the situation that you're just but the

thing is Hitler did not make the mass

extermination of Jews public

well he certainly said that they would

that it was a problem that would have to

be solved right I don't know no one knew

what that no nobody knew that was going

to be used man

it's not that everyone knew that that

was going to be extermination okay let's

let's use your example right he gets on

stage Elmo and says we need to solve we

need to answer the uh what is it the

Cookie Monster question how many

different [ __ ] things could he

possibly [ __ ] mean um there's one of

one of the one of the plans was the

deportation of Jewish people to

Madagascar which is still bad which is

right okay sure but it's not it doesn't

matter if it's good or bad it's not

relevant to the point use logic but it

does but ah see it does why the point

well because you just agreed that's like

a reason because deportation to

Madagascar is not the same thing as

extermination camps that's why it

doesn't matter well I agree with you

there just be they're both bad sure but

they're not the same thing just relax

for a second the reason it's dis

analogous is because you're trying to

make an analogy between that and like

you Ukraine and these battalions but

there is no similar situation in Ukraine

there's nobody in the Ukrainian

Administration we are talking about okay

okay

I'm not saying there's a holocaust going

on in Ukraine right now what I'm trying

to tell you you're very you're getting

very close to implying it no offense oh

my God you are genuinely a stupid [ __ ]

you're just like not smart you're just

not intelligent I'm sorry you would fail

out of law school you would never even

pass the LSAT pogan what I'm trying to

say a PhD physicist it doesn't matter

you're a dumb [ __ ] you would not you

would never be allowed in law school

Hogan what we're talking about is not

whether there's directly a holocaust

going on in Ukraine we're talking very

abstractly about whether the numbers of

an organization or an institution can

Define its intentions if 7.5 percent are

neo-nazis what you have to prove is that

their Neo-Nazi character is merely

incidental and that the institution is

deploying them for ends that are not

themselves defined by the Neo-Nazi

ideology no no no the point is you were

trying to establish an analogy between

Ukraine as it exists today with all

these battalions and Nazi uh no I I I I

gave up on the Nazi thing because I know

you're a dumb stupid [ __ ] with [ __ ] in

your ears so I gave up on the Nazi

analogy and I made up my own Elmo Cookie

Monster thing okay so we could use this

analogous right no it is analogous but

you can't understand the analogy so I

tried to simplify the analogy for you

why is my objection to the analogy wrong

because you are making it seem like I am

claiming the analogy is along the lines

of their actions being the same thing

rather than the question I didn't say

that yes you did you said well there's

no genocide going or there's no

Holocaust going on in Ukraine right now

that's the reason I cited for this

analogy you cited this analogy because

Hitler was at knowingly it was known to

be an anti-semite and everyone in the

armed forces had to swear allegiance to

it this analogy is that when they became

Vermont or whatever can you can you look

on my stream because I'm gonna just

Microsoft Paint this for you because

you're a stupid [ __ ] like you need

visual learning so let's just do visual

learning right I'm actually I'm well

probably open the open stream we'll do

visual learning okay I'm on an Etch A

Sketch I can't there is no games do

visual learning okay so we're gonna do

this very simply right I just want you

to understand we're going to do this

very simply so here we have all right we

have Hitler

um Hitler's open anti-Semitism right

Hitler's open anti-semitism

all where ma whatever all Army do you

understand shut up allegiance to him

okay

all Army swearing allegiance to him

okay this is how the analogy is based on

each layer okay all Army swearing

allegiance to him and then a proportion

committing the crime

genocide right

okay so one two and three right let's

label them for you you understand I'm

not looking at this well you can look at

it there's no excuse for you I can't you

literally can I have an Etch A Sketch

okay someone take a screenshot of it

when I'm done and post it in the Discord

so we can see you there's you guys you

have such good fans thank you so one two

and three right then we're gonna do this

we're gonna do this one right

I don't know Ukrainian government

Ukrainian government

ideology irrelevant

just uh just so I know Haas what's your

like what's your bedtime

roughly no I'm explaining this to you

irrelevant that wasn't my question

it's 11 p.m on the East Coast man

um

Ukrainian Armed Forces answering

to State let's just say Ukrainian state

so we're less uh

ambiguous entering to state orders

two

a my mom's portion a proportion being

I'm just telling you now a significant

proportion being Neo-Nazi so as you can

see we have these labeled one two and

three right so one here is one so

a significant proportion being Neo-Nazi

is analogous to the proportion

committing the Holocaust okay

and the reason it's analogous is not

because you have a new haircut the

reason the the the reason they're

analogous these days they have pause for

a second I got them

sorry go ahead continue please so do you

concede the debate

what no so have you lost it are you

unable to comprehend what I'm trying to

say well they just posted it for me so

let me read just uh Hitler's open

anti-Semitism swearing Allegiance uh

[ __ ] proportion committing the crime

Ukrainian State Ukrainian Armed Forces

answering to state orders significant

proportion being neo-Nazi

wait a second why is the official

ideology of the Ukrainian State

irrelevant

um because you cannot extrapolate from

Hitler's open anti-Semitism uh a

necessary conclusion at least at the

time as far as the soldiers in that Army

knew of the extermination if if the

analogy I didn't say I didn't say it's

the hypothetical is true I merely said

that he was like explicitly anti-jew and

had expressed that he wanted let me

explain something to you now it used to

be very common I'm gonna explain

something to you I'm gonna explain to

you it is it's not going to sound

relevant at first but you're gonna see

why it is okay in in Old Europe

anti-Semitism was very common you

understand though that that is well shut

the [ __ ] up and let me finish this

you're muted okay

anti-Semitism used to be very very

prominent in Europe the reason it

stopped being as open or prominent as it

used to be is because of the Holocaust

which means in no way was Hitler's open

anti-Semitism or ideology enough to know

he was going to commit the Holocaust it

was a huge shock and surprise to the

entire world which changed the nature of

how anti-Semitism was received forever

okay that's what I'm trying to say

am I unmuted hello yeah you're unmuted

now sick so the point of me bringing

that up when you express the analogy

initially just to correct uh the record

because you straw manned me is to point

out that there's a significant

difference between 7.5 percent of a

standing military

um engaging in neo-nazism explicitly and

therefore somehow magically esoterically

having an influence on the rest of the

standing militaries that's I I can

describe and it just let me finish come

on you've been talking all night and

such that they're partial to the

ideology of neo-nazism right versus

a military that is very explicitly

subscribing to the ideology because the

guy they're [ __ ] directly swearing

loyalty to has been saying for like

years that the Jews are a problem that

they need to get rid of right that's the

reason to think it's dis analogous

because if you'll recall your initial

claim at the outset of all of this was

something to the effect of well I think

the Ukrainian military slash deep sorry

Ukrainian government slash deep State uh

is is a Nazi institution and the reason

I think that at least one reason

um is that we were at least

well sure fine but one of the many

reasons that you supposed supposedly

have to believe that is that these are

there are these battalions which are

Neo-Nazi and they're somehow influencing

all these other yeah

okay there's two problems just just just

so you understand right you you see why

that would be disanalogous no if if

conditional right if the claim is that

somehow we're supposed to believe that

at its core in the [ __ ] Ukrainian

deep state government whatever you call

it even explicitly Neo-Nazi Institution

you understand why that's a problem if

you're if you're doing like an induction

okay it doesn't follow can you actually

like I pogan I've listened to you very

very carefully because I want to rip you

apart you don't listen to anything I say

so listen very carefully pogan

there's two prongs listen very carefully

two prongs

listen very carefully if you want to

even have a chance in this debate two

prongs the first one it is not true that

I claim that they magically influence

the Ukrainian Armed Forces as the 7.5

percent I've been trying to explain how

they do but you keep cutting me off I

would be more than happy to give you

more examples of how this influence and

how the mechanism of this influence is

concerned but the only thing shut the

[ __ ] up because that lets you talk Hogan

I let you [ __ ] spoink oink oink like

a pig for a long time so let me talk now

all I wanted to do is prove that them

being 7.5 alone does not discount the

possibility of that influence I was more

than happy to name you examples of that

influence okay the second Point respect

to the analogy though the second point

with respect to the analogy there's two

prongs to this the second point is that

that is making the assumption that

Hitler's anti-semitic ideology was known

to be the extermination camps of the

Holocaust which it wasn't

did you know that what I'm six foot

three

so you would say because you absolutely

do wait so you're conceding hold on so

you're conceding I didn't concede I just

gave you my rebuttal and that's how you

respond you're refuting a straw man how

it like what do you want me to respond

what is the strong how is it a straw man

the straw man is saying that I ever at

any point was talking about just uh

genocide explicitly when I merely said

all that's necessary for the analogy to

break down is that in one case they're

not explicitly subscribing to some ex

ideology and in the other case they are

that's but the analogy was not along the

axis of the idealities which I even knew

to clarify hey easy cowboy this isn't

[ __ ] modern day debate okay just

chill out the point is that's

sufficiently dis analogous to make the

point break down because you're trying

to let me know when you shut the [ __ ] up

let me know when you shut the [ __ ] up oh

I'm happy to yeah uh that you're trying

to say that's reason to think that like

um we can conclude that the Ukrainian

deep state is somehow explicitly

Neo-Nazi but you haven't actually

presented some sort of analogous

reasoning

you [ __ ] up

the whole thing

the analogy was not you just saw the

Microsoft Paint look at it again I am

not comparing the subscription to

Neo-Nazi ideology in Ukraine to the

subscription of Nazi ideology in the

German Army are you gonna tell me how

CPI was ever

looked like I'm I'm so are you Logan the

more snide remarks you make the more

you're you're admitting you lost this

debate would I need for you to respond

to the point I actually do I have to

mute you if I mute you will you listen

to what I say

I mean you're attacking a straw man

you didn't even hear what I said how

would you know if it's a straw man or

not how could I not hear you you've been

[ __ ] screaming into the mic so pogan

I'm not comparing ideology

of Nazism to the in Germany to the

ideology of the neo-nazism in Ukraine

I'm comparing the Holocaust just as an

abstract analogy about how a minority of

the people in an institution can do

things or or um

if it was you already conceded that it

would Define the institution's intention

hold on hold on Hogan even if it wasn't

a minority of the Nazi party or the or

the institution of the German State

whatever you want to call it

if it was a minority in a hypothetical

scenario you yourself conceded that it

would make the Nazi party and Define the

Nazi party as not only called but it

would be defined by that action yeah but

the point is even in the Elmo Cookie

Monster whatever the [ __ ] case you tried

to present the same exact analogy just

with different pronouns right it's the

same exact setup and right because I was

trying to explain yeah because it's an

abstract hypothetical it's this [ __ ]

what is this

how many times have you interrupted me

in this

I can let you talk uninterrupted if you

can commit and promise to do the same to

me how about that

sure yeah okay then don't interrupt me

again I won't interrupt you go ahead

yeah I think I've explained several

times what the dis analogy is um I'll go

over it again because I think the

audience is like uh kind of paying

attention just a teeny little bit

um so here we go you're trying to say

that there's this 30 component of the

Ukrainian uh National Guard

7.5 percent of the overall standing

military and this is supposed to be

representative of the Ukrainian deep

State being explicitly Neo-Nazi right

and in order to present this argument

you did an analogical reasoning with uh

Nazi Germany and you were appealing to

like um you know the Vermont and the

military and whatever but the problem is

this right unless you have some other

piece of evidence you'd like to supply

in the Ukrainian case nearly having

these 7.5 percent uh of the of the

overall military be Neo-Nazi does not

implicitly or explicitly mean barring a

further argument that the rest of the

Ukrainian military is Neo-Nazi

sympathetic in the case of Germany not

only uh are they like obviously in an

environment where the entire regime and

government and everything has been

cultivated

such that they're subscribing to Nazi

party ideology they actually explicitly

swear Allegiance and loyalty to uh Adolf

Hitler a guy who for like five to ten

years has been railing against the Jews

very publicly and very violently and

very explicitly which means in the

German case we do have reason to think

that the German standing military would

very very very likely be sympathetic to

the ideology of Hitler in the Ukrainian

case we don't possess the same reasoning

hence the disenology please proceed Haas

go ahead okay so I want you to actually

listen carefully because you just looped

again and I'm going to explain to you

why you looped it's very simple okay

now first of all I am not saying that

just because 7.5 percent are there

without any further details or context

that this means the Ukrainian Armed

Forces as a whole is Neo-Nazi the

context of that 7.5 is what's decisive

to the argument here and what they

actually do and what they are for in

regards to the Ukrainian Armed Forces

okay that's what I very made that very

clear from the very start second of all

I never actually discounted that the

whole of the let's say German army

during World War II was anti-semitic or

was sympathetic or subscribed to

Hitler's ideology on because they swore

allegiance to him what I made very clear

though was that subscribing to Hitler's

ideology at that time was not

necessarily the same thing as committing

the act of the Holocaust and the

extermination of Jews and in the camps

okay now even if it was for as a matter

of historical fact just refer back to my

hypothetical in which the is wasn't the

case and in which it was only two

percent and 98 had no idea it is not

true that see what your your issue pogon

is that you're trying to make it seem

like I'm saying

that the German military

vis-a-vis Nazi ideology is the same as

the Ukrainian military vis-a-vis

Ukrainian Neo-Nazi ideology that's not

what I'm saying what I'm saying is that

the um perpetration of the Holocaust

relative to the institution of the Nazi

party assuming only nine percent were

culpable or directly perpetrating it I

should say

is relevant vis-a-vis the 7.5 and the

reason I'm saying that is not to draw

the conclusion that it's necessarily

true that just because there's 7.5

percent that means the institution is

going to be defined in a certain way the

point is it is more than easily possible

for 7.5 percent of an institution to

define the nature of that Institution

nuts even just the ideology but even

when it comes to moral culpability in

actions your inability to hear this

argument probably reflects the fact and

you have to focus really hard here pogan

you are genuinely a stupid person you

are not a smart person

simple as that

are you done yeah

yeah so it's I I never use straw man to

me again in that rebuttal I never said

it was like the Holocaust in terms of

extermination right I merely said that

all that would be necessary for some

member of the German military uh to come

to the conclusions that I'm referring to

what conclusions why are they relevant I

thought we weren't interrupting each

other

is to just come to the it's just like

pay attention to any one of his public

speeches that even remotely mentioned

the Jews for over the course of like

five years right they agreed with his

ideology and the party line at least on

some level you could infer that merely

by agreeing to be a part of a party

because as you and I agreed they swear

loyalty to Hitler who was the chancellor

right and he's not very quiet about what

he believes uh with respect to the Jews

and the problem there is is exactly what

I've been pointing out is the disinology

this whole time the Ukrainian Armed

Forces you can't make the same inference

that they agree with the ideology and

the party line merely because of the

evidence that you presented which was

just the 7.5 or 30 percent right you

have to supply a further argument to

think that that Ukrainian deep state is

a Nazi into institution if you're using

the existence of these battalions as

evidence for that you haven't given an

argument that's the dis analogy you

straw man to me again with the Holocaust

extermination thing and never [ __ ]

said that Bogan Bogan Bogan you're four

foot seven I'm six three okay

okay it's okay you can see it at pogan

I'm gonna repeat this yes you did you

did you did concede to me because I made

it very clear that no one denied that

the German military was anti-semitic or

agreed with Hitler ideologically it is

not under contention what is under

contention is the question of their

culpability in the Holocaust in this

hypothetical and it's a hypothetical

Pogue and stop talking about the direct

thing because the directing doesn't

matter just imagine look okay don't

mention the the Germany again because

you're confused about it talk about my

Elmo and Cookie Monster analogy it is

not relevant what their ideology was in

this case because the object of

relevance here

is about the Holocaust not the ideology

we we all agree that they were all

anti-semitic and they they agreed with

Hitler's um views about Jews and all

that kind of stuff that does that is not

a one-to-one uh that doesn't allow us to

draw the conclusion that they directly

perpetrated

the Holocaust and that is as simple as

that

do you agree that saying that I think

like standing members of the German

military are subscribing to the

Holocaust in terms of extermination like

like you agree I never said that right

if you're not saying that

then you're not saying anything relevant

to the if you concede to me that

then why are you bringing up that they

agree with a concession to get you to

clarify because that was the Crux of

that was my analogy my analogy was with

regard to their proximity to the

perpetration of the Holocaust not their

ideology no no the conversation went hey

I don't think there's reason to think

the Ukrainian deep state is Nazi based

on uh like Nazi sympathetic or a Nazi

institution based on this evidence right

and then we've cited the numbers the 30

National Guard the 7.5 percent and then

at that point you threw up the analogy

with Germany you're like oh okay pogan

so you think all right you don't think

like the German military was like Nazi

sympathetic just because nine percent

actually participated I didn't say Nazis

I did not say Nancy sympathetic what I

said was

no I no no I don't because I did not say

whether they were sympathetic to Nazi

views I said whether they were directly

culpable whether more specifically the

Nazi party is defined by the Holocaust

yeah and I never said that just so it's

about institutions and people wait wait

that's the straw man I never said merely

by being in the German military that I

think like every single [ __ ] person

was signing up to participate I'm glad

you don't think that I'm glad you don't

think that but you've just conceded hold

on because you said I did that's the

straw man that I've been playing no no

it's not that's not what I said you did

I think

what you were saying was that they

weren't signing up for the Holocaust but

that they were signing up for Hitler's

ideology which is true but that's not

relevant to my analogy I just don't

understand why you're so upset when I'm

the one trying to tell you what I

actually said and you seem so like

befuddled because what you said does not

address my analogy

yes it does directly no it doesn't

because you just contradicted yourself

nowhere in my analogy am I equating

perpetrating the Holocaust with

subscribing to the Nazi ideology at the

time still confused that this analogy is

the difference between making some sort

of inference about 7.5 30 whatever

having a Neo-Nazi ideology and the

Ukrainian deep State being an explicitly

Nazi institution versus people

participating in an institution that is

not only open about its political

ideology yeah but you but in order I'm

almost done remember we're not that's

not one just don't finish that because I

know what you I know what you're gonna

say Bogan it's not relevant to the

analogy

why can't you follow your own rules

go ahead waste it waste waste our time

you're a very forgiving person I thank

you for that the point is by joining the

German military by being in the Vermont

to the SS whatever uh by being like a

card-carrying member of the Nazi party

what have you there are two relevant

differences there that are not going to

work in the analogy the first is that

you know damn well right what Hitler

thinks about the Jews the second is you

are explicitly swearing loyalty and

allegiance to that very [ __ ] guy

neither of those things right exist in

the case of Ukraine yet you're trying to

say that this is some sort of analogical

reasoning that you can use to conclude

that the Ukrainian government slash deep

state is an explicitly Neo-Nazi

institution it just doesn't work that

way my friend

okay I'm gonna be very quiet and careful

with you that is not my analogy pogan my

analogy is not about Nazi ideology it's

not the ideology thing is not relevant

to anything I've said I said if nine

percent of the Nazi party committed the

Holocaust only that's still going to

define the Nazi party as an institution

as a holocaust committing institution

okay if 7.5 percent of the Ukrainian

armed forces are neo-nazis that has the

possibility and why I'm not saying by

default because again you may make the

argument that the neo-nazism is

incidental to the overall aims of the

institution but it has the possibility

definitely of defining the institution

of the Ukrainian deep state has notified

that is literally my that is what I said

from the very start you talking about

the ideology of the Nazi party and the

ideology of the where moct

is not relevant it's Hogan before you

Loop in like on NPC say the same thing

you've said the same things dozens and

dozens of time which you said is not

relevant to my analogy and my analogy

has nothing to do with the ideological

loyalties of the Nazi party or the

warmacht it has to do with their actions

relative and in in regards to the

Holocaust

are you done yeah when you throw out

evidence like there's X percent Neo-Nazi

battalions whatever right when the

original claim is something like

Ukraine's government deep state is

explicitly Neo-Nazi what you're saying

you're performing an induction right

I'll walk you through this you're saying

that that raises the probability of your

initial claim being true right you're

supplying it as evidence

I thought we weren't interested why

because you're wasting friends here only

with added context wait just just please

I I beg of you Sultan has the cruel

please allow me to finish my claim thank

you now you're merely saying though that

it's possible when you appeal to the uh

when you appeal to the battalions that

um the Ukrainian deep state is like

Neo-Nazi right so you're actually

walking back the initial claim because

you're no longer performing an induction

at all you're merely saying you're

invoking some sort of weird possibility

okay just for clarity just for clarity

are you saying it is evidence for

Ukraine being deep State Neo-Nazi or

it's not evidence with added context it

is evidence in a vacuum it is not

evidence but we're not operating so the

thing we've been just to clarify the

thing we've been talking about for like

an hour is not evidence unless you

supply other evidence no I don't need to

necessarily just Supply other evidence I

need to address the context of that

evidence if you are not comfortable

supplying this as evidence on its own

like in a vacuum as you said why not

merely invoke the other evidence instead

of arguing with me because it's not

about other evidence it's about knowing

about the what the actual context of the

evidence so pogan you claim you have a

PhD in physics so you used to working in

vacuums that's fine I was joking okay

well sure but that's not how real life

Works real life is not like physics

where it's all just vacuums real life is

actually not everything

real life isn't evidence in a vacuum all

evidence in real life is oversaturated

with context and that context is crucial

to the very structure of that evidence

okay

so in the case of well okay on its own

30 being Neo-Nazi isn't enough but when

you add the actual context of that 30 or

that 7.5 percent it does actually add uh

to my argument it does add like I said

it adds to the overall picture hold on

it adds to the overall picture that I'm

painting

which we haven't even had you haven't

even let me discuss more details about

that because you've been focusing on the

7.5 percent well it's because I was

correcting straw mans and planning oh

you weren't because you were saying the

7.5 is not strong evidence well how do

you know it's not when you supply it

when you supplied an analogical argument

I broke down that argument now you

didn't hold on

you broke down nothing you broke down

nothing because I proved to you either

you never comprehended the analogy or

you were just wrong about it

sorry you broke down nothing pogan I was

having a moment because my favorite

streamer was yelling at me the point is

if you spent so much time trying to

supply an analogical argument for this

piece of evidence only to then come to

me and say actually in order for it to

be effective evidence it requires

further Evidence which is what you

really mean which is no not no it's not

what I mean by context exactly come on

don't [ __ ] with me are there no other

other evidence is is like factually

verified discrete datum what does that

matter context relates to the actual

structure of evidence now you don't know

the distinction of those things because

you're either not a knowledgeable person

or you're too much of a [ __ ] idiot to

put together what that could possibly

think dunbar's number is a defeater for

communism then by the same token I don't

know what that is

really you don't think like the presence

of Russian sympathetic or Soviet

sympathetic people in donbass or

whatever

can work in the same exact way that

you're appealing to with respect to

these Ukrainian neo-nazis the presence

of ideologies that justify some sort of

sorry Invasion am I denying that the

people in Dawn bass are overwhelmingly

sympathetic to Soviet ideology and

communism because I'm not I didn't ask

if you were denying it I'm saying do you

think the same sort of reasoning could

be applied

uh yeah why not oh okay so then it's

just wait what form of reasoning

well presumably Ukraine doesn't want

them to like succeed or be right I think

that in the same way that Ukraine is

Neo-Nazi as I'm the Ukrainian state is

Neo-Nazi by the same that hasn't been

defended okay but by the same standard

you could also say that the Don bass is

sympathetic to Soviet ideology I would

never do that no no no that's that's you

can't say that like the statement one

the Ukrainian deep state is Neo-Nazi

whether it's proven or not is irrelevant

hold the train statement two Don bass is

possibly or sorry Don bass is like

Russia Soviet sympathetic rather than

being explicitly Soviet okay then let me

rephrase it then okay in the same okay I

think I think we should rename the

stream in for this analogy that's more

fitting I gotta be honest sultan

you are such a [ __ ] idiot it's

baffling let me rephrase it then in the

same way that the Ukrainian state is

Nazi sympathetic the donbass is Soviet

ideology sympathetic or let me predicted

the examination hold on hold on hold on

shut the [ __ ] up let me even predict it

even further right in the same way that

the Ukrainian deep state is nazified

that the donbass republics are

sovietized I have no problem saying that

so what you deemed as like an essential

which you deemed as an essential

component of my analogy which was the

keyword sympathetic proved itself to be

entirely inessential Brogan you would

fail the LSAT you'd never be allowed in

law school you are genuinely a almost

naturally stupid person

I mean you still have provided an

analogical argument that doesn't bear

out or why not have ability well we've

explained that for the last hour wait

wait hold on Hogan you asked two factors

that I presented in the case of Germany

right are absolutely we're not relevant

no the ideology thing was not right wait

wait don't say that because that's sorry

burp that's dishonest they're absolutely

crucial and relevant because you're

talking about whether or not we can come

to some sort of Justified conclusion

about the ideologies held by each

respective regime no I'm not I am not

talking about and by extension the

people that serve I am talking about the

Nazi party's culpability in the

Holocaust not its ideology no what you

said was if you think that 7.5 percent

of the Ukrainian armed forces being

explicitly new Nazi is not reason to

conclude that the Ukrainian deep state

is a Nazi institution right what do you

think about and that's when you threw

the Nazi no Bogan the thing is that's

not what I said exactly

well sure the the record supports me

though

the only thing that saves you on Twitch

is I'm not allowed to say slurs so

that's understand that

[Music]

I'm talking about you know like the r

word yeah yeah like the r word whatever

yeah yeah that's okay Jesus Christ okay

that's okay I can't call you the r word

that's okay listen pogan wow let me tell

Logan let me tell you something I don't

think you're my favorite streamer

anymore I don't care Bogan let me tell

you something okay

what I said initially is that just

because they're 7.5 percent doesn't mean

it can't be strong evidence it depends

on this it depends on the structure of

that timer it depends on the structure

of that evidence just because it's 7.5

doesn't mean it's not strong evidence

because the nine percent in the Nazi

party in a hypoth or Elmo's Army let's

say that was decisive in Exterminating

Cookie Monster or whatever or I don't

know

um what's another characters uh big

birds or whatever right

that in no way actually watch Sesame

Street it seems like you're just a

larper that in in no way does that

discount the strength of that evidence

it depends on what that 7.5 is doing you

can't say it's not strong evidence

unless you know the context in which

that evidence is being presented the

reason it's it we'll go over it again I

understand people work on things yeah

talk again about the Nazi ideology

please go ahead

well the reason to think it's just

analogous analogous Jesus I'm tired

they're even to think it's just

analogous once again is because there's

two crucial factors that are being added

in the case of Germany that are not

present in the case of Ukraine such that

they would dramatically influence the

probability of the conclusion then then

forget about Germany and use my Sesame

Street exactly so you agree it's just

analogous thank you no it's not this

analogous because the essential

organization it may as well be a

hypothetical because the essential

component of my analogy has nothing to

do with the history

it's not this analogous because the

essential components of the analogy can

be distilled into an abstract

hypothetical if you're arguing for a

negative right you can't prove the Nazi

like the Ukrainian government isn't Nazi

sympathetic so gotcha pogan right no I'm

not I would really are I would more than

be happy to move on to illustrate more

evidence in the direction of the

government being notified what you doing

buddy Haas come on look let's no I'm not

Hogan I uh I'm opening listen Bogan

you're saying 7.5 is not strong evidence

I'm saying it is strong evidence when

you actually I don't think it's strong

evidence can you repeat them to me

because you're trying to put the numbers

in a vacuum nope wrong

why isn't a strong evidence tracking

anything so why isn't it why isn't it

strong evidence because the two crucial

factors that would dramatically raise

the probability of the conclusion being

true you cannot substantiate in the case

of Ukraine what are the two necessary

factors we've gone over that about nine

times wait so you're now you're trying

to make like a a necessary analogy in

which it would have to be the same

necessary analogy when we're talking

about probability because what you're

trying to say now is you're trying to

say unless uh the German Armed Forces

bear the same relationship to the

Ukrainian deep State officially which is

obviously impossible because the Deep

state is not official to the German

armed forces in regards to the Nazi

party or Hitler himself this isn't

correct either so what those two factors

are what swearing Allegiance uh to the

ideology

they're factors that you presented in an

analogical argument to substantiate what

are the factors I presented exactly and

over that they're the two I'm

referencing the only factors I presented

that were essentialized in my analogy

were this a minority of the Nazi party

whether it's true or not what do you

mean by essentialized like it's

literally the simple a minority of an

institution can easily Define the

character of that Institution

huh that has nothing to do with the

analogy though analogy was the well

because you were trying to say because

okay if a minority of Nazis I guess if a

minority of Nazis commit to Holocaust

that is more than easily enough for that

Minority to define the institution of

the Nazi party oh no no that has nothing

to do with it but that's what I said but

that's what I said initially and you're

getting scared and you're like realized

but that's what I said initially Bogan

who's scared of what that's what I said

initially deep sleep it's okay listen

the point is you presented an analogical

argument right an analogical argument is

designed to increase the probability of

a conclusion being true why because

there's analogical properties such that

if you think something's true in one

case you would have to say it's true in

the other case or at least be compelled

to say it's true except the problem what

did I say exactly we're getting there

trust me and provide evidence of what I

said please put it in fact checking no

no get a clip of exactly what I said and

put it in fact

get the clip so we can look at the

evidence of what I said you said in the

case of Ukraine there's the 7.5 percent

whatever battalions that are Neo-Nazi

therefore it increases the probability

of uh the Ukrainian deep space wow the

Ukrainian deep State being Neo-Nazi and

you analogized this to the Germany

example where there's people joining the

German military and even though it's a

minority of people involved in like the

Holocaust or what have you right you can

still conclude that you know the

government is sympathetic to that agenda

or the party ideology I'm denying that

that's now I'm denying that that I said

that

well I mean that's just I don't know

what to say to that that's because you

omitted you omitted something Bogan what

actually happened was first I pointed

out the over-representation of Neo-Nazi

battalions in the Ukrainian National

Guard okay then you said well that's

only 7.5 percent of the total so that's

that's not strong evidence and I said oh

incorrect incorrect no that's not all I

said that's that's what else did you say

when I said that it was merely 7.5

percent and I added the strong uh it's

not strong evidence statement I gave a

reason to think it's not strong evidence

right what was your reason it's not

nearly the number it's the number

coupled with the fact that and this is

where we've gotten into trouble no my

analogy didn't start don't mention the

analogy don't don't get emotional just

listen right try to listen for once why

is this one let me let me guys this is

what happens when I don't yell this is

what happens when I don't yell over

these [ __ ] soy boy pieces of [ __ ] Cox

is that they constantly [ __ ] uh

Jester around and they do this [ __ ]

[ __ ] Gogan finish what you were

gonna say yeah okay sure thank you

anyway point is I didn't merely say it

was the number that made it weak

evidence I said it was the number

coupled with the fact that you're trying

to make a claim like that an induction

without the connective tissue such that

the number has any bearing on the

probability of the deep State uh

Ukrainian deep State being Neo-Nazi and

then remember let's let's keep track

here remember you then presented the

analogical argument with Germany and I

said well Haas that's disanalogous XYZ

reasons and then you lost the like lost

that would be nice if it was true but

it's not because what actually happened

was that just look back in there okay we

can look back when you asked me for

connective tissue I didn't respond with

the analogy I responded by actually

giving you connected tissue about the

OverWatch I talked about maripol in

2015. I gave you plenty of connective

tissue at the time which you just

completely ignored and then I said Hogan

there's nothing it's more than possible

for 7.5 percent to be able to Define an

institution just look at the case

probable which is it it's more than it's

hold on hold on hold on no it's about

possibility because it's more than

possible it's possible okay well

congratulations yeah it's more than

possible it's possible a Victoria's

Secret model is going to walk in the

door right now and blow me is it more

probable based on some evidence that

you're supplying or is it just possible

okay let's the you're claiming it's

improbable right or whatever you said

that that's seven point five percent you

said the seven point hold on Hogan what

you said is the 7.5 is not strong

evidence where's James when you need

them

God you said the 7.5 percent is not

strong evidence

that's correct yes yeah but I didn't

make it but then you asked me for

connective tissue I gave you connective

tissue and I coupled that connective

tissue by saying there's nothing about

it being 7.5 percent that is that

indicates that this is not uh as uh

protective tissue that you offered was

an analogous no it wasn't the connective

tissue that I offered was the ABS off

taking Maya Pro in 2015. don't get

emotional you are a [ __ ] liar the

connective tissue I offered was the

over-representation of these Neo-Nazi

forces in Ukrainian Armed Forces help

don't get emotional please all right are

you okay Hogan twitch TLS is the only

thing that saves you it's the only thing

that saves you Logan are you are you

implying a death threat you're a pig

you're a pig you're a [ __ ] pig

you [ __ ] squeal like a pig like a

little [ __ ] [ __ ] every time I

[ __ ] corner you sound like a [ __ ]

laughing hyena little [ __ ] again you've

always been a little [ __ ] Bogan never

heard of that huh you [ __ ] fat pig

I dare you for negative tissue you

ignored it I'll supplemented the

connective tissue so giving you an

example of how a minority can

drastically Define an organization if

it's because it's 7.5 percent doesn't

mean it can't be strong evidence you

just need to contextualize the evidence

that's what I [ __ ] said you haven't

addressed a single one point of my

[ __ ] argument not once have we made

any [ __ ] progress because it's just

stupid to [ __ ] understand what I'm

even saying

pause

chat infrared it's been a fantastic

evening

um man would conceded get the [ __ ] out

of here [ __ ] I'm not conceding you are

conceding statement though [ __ ] you're

not getting a closing statement [ __ ]

get the [ __ ] out of here get the [ __ ]

out of here with your [ __ ] pigtail

your schooling squeal more oink oink

with your pigtail between your [ __ ]

legs go ahead and run away little [ __ ]

I'm still in the VC though okay so are

you not leaving then

I have uh work at 8 30. I don't give a

[ __ ]

okay yeah I'll get fired for you Haas

you're my favorite streamer yeah go

ahead you [ __ ] [ __ ] can I make a

statement or not are you gonna let me no

you can't make a closing statement you

either debate me or you don't be honest

debate me or run away you little [ __ ] I

am debating you no you're not you're

running away my position you're running

away

I was gonna summarize my position

you have no position okay with that

what's my position oh awesome okay

what's my position Haas tell me go ahead

your position is that you're unable to

understand any of the arguments I've

actually forwarded throughout this

entire debate that's you think that's my

position that's what you have that is

objectively your position it's just

people outside of your chat take you to

be a serious person I actually don't

give a [ __ ]

that I I can tell yeah most people have

like

at least some degree of like dignity if

you measure this like mathematically I

want like any formal standard of victory

in terms of measuring our debates with

regard to logic I won all right uh take

it easy AK Fort seven have a good

evening fat [ __ ] okay you fat ugly

[ __ ] pig [ __ ] you [ __ ] fat putt

[ __ ] pig oink oink more pogan fat

[ __ ]

ugly fat pig [ __ ]

imagine [ __ ] getting destroyed that

badly

don't try to [ __ ] outlawyer me don't

try to get in the weeds of arguments

I'm sorry guys I took the LSAT cold

and got in a pretty good Law School

and in this [ __ ] law school I didn't

study once

I'm built for this [ __ ] don't [ __ ]

come and get into the weeds of a [ __ ]

argument with me you dumb [ __ ]

especially if you don't have a lawyer

brain

yeah all he could do is this [ __ ] MCU

Reddit quips that's all he could [ __ ]

do such a [ __ ]

such a [ __ ] [ __ ]

by the way guys all that [ __ ]

[ __ ] they do all that [ __ ] all the

entirety of that [ __ ] [ __ ]

it's because of [ __ ] like this I dissect

and tear apart viciously my opponents

viciously

all they can do is cope and lie all they

[ __ ] have is their lying and coping

that's it that's all they can [ __ ] do

cope and lie

back to the [ __ ] meat and potatoes

right

back to the [ __ ] meat and potatoes

where we [ __ ] belong

based thank you Alex appreciate you

foreign

such a beautiful based [ __ ] video

this is what [ __ ] happened

so [ __ ] based

someone give hugs

someone give hugs here oh she already

she's already has hero

[ __ ] based

oh Max said made it thank you Max

appreciate you appreciate you so much

[ __ ] [ __ ] absolute [ __ ] [ __ ]

I'm not

and we yeah we're going to continue

we're going to continue

and you left his best appreciate you

I know there's a lot of news we have to

cover about the conflict a whole [ __ ]

lot

two W's in one night we [ __ ]

destroyed we set in motion the end of

Destiny's [ __ ] career and pogan's

[ __ ] got destroyed to which you know

which is old [ __ ] easy as [ __ ] though

now the the latest cope guys that

they're saying I faked and staged the

whole thing with Destiny they're saying

I staged all of it

they're saying I staged all of it why

don't we ask Destiny directly that

[ __ ] [ __ ] huh why don't we ask that

[ __ ] directly if I staged all of it

who've forced him to [ __ ] promote

that guy and retweet him huh

yeah Destiny's a little [ __ ]

remember what Putin said Empire of Lies

Empire of Lies

there's a lot of [ __ ] we have to cover

about the news

last time I checked Mario pool was about

to fall

I know I saw that stuff give me a sec

I can't believe they had to like invent

a conspiracy theory they're literally

losing their [ __ ] mind it's literally

psychosis it's literally [ __ ]

psychosis unfucking believable

plus if it was me why would I why would

it make up all this [ __ ] about like

calling the cops and all this [ __ ]

dumb ass [ __ ] why would they make that

up it's just there's so much [ __ ] that

just doesn't even make it [ __ ]

possible

yeah when one of these bees Strays from

the high of their [ __ ] losers

yeah we're gonna cover it in a sec give

me one [ __ ] second

bust why did I say it's gonna take an

hour

if that was the case I was like in fact

making up this whole thing you know the

this is the [ __ ] Smoking Gun about

Destiny's conspiracy theory being wrong

right this is the [ __ ] Smoking Gun of

this [ __ ] being wrong I'm just gonna

dedicate one last thing to this and

we're gonna go cover the Ukraine [ __ ]

let me show you tell you why

when that guy said he was there all the

timing was wrong he said he was four

hours away right

he said he was four hours away then he

changed it to being two hours away and

in a matter of 20 minutes and then he

finally said he was there when he said

he was there I was so shocked I ended my

stream and I went immediately there I

wanted to say I wanted a one hour window

before I get there to say oh I'm an hour

away right why would I do that why would

I have done that the timing doesn't even

[ __ ] make sense if I'm the one

responsible for faking this why did that

guy give completely wrong times about

when they were going to show up and why

did it take me as such a surprise when

they showed up there immediately like if

I was lying because I did initially lie

about something I said that I'm an hour

away I am not an hour away I'm much

closer to that place than an hour right

I said I'm an hour away

just because I don't you know I don't

really want people to know where I live

you know but I'm not an hour away why

would I why would I like do that you

know I just proved I'm not an hour away

right why would I have done that

doesn't make any [ __ ] sense it he

would have posted the photos

after an hour passed or something right

it's just crazy like they they it's over

now it's over it's [ __ ] over it's

literally all over

I don't know this is so [ __ ] absurd

okay yeah we're gonna move on I'm just

trying to wrap my head around how

[ __ ] stupid this conspiracy theory is

is he knows he's lying he's lying on

purpose because he's a [ __ ] lying

little [ __ ] right

this is how [ __ ] stupid it is

if I was the one who set it up

how could I have taken that photo when I

was streaming when it was posted I was

streaming when it was posted and I

actually streamed live from that

location

in case people wanted to say oh all

these photos were taken yesterday you

can someone download the VOD too by the

way I streamed live from that location

onto twitch

so I was there at the time in which I

said I was there how could I have been

there

well this this is the [ __ ] Smoking

Gun the smoking

Smoking Gun to immediately

destroy this stupid [ __ ]

cope narrative

how could I have taken those photos

when they were posted while I was live

how could I have

I also was live from that location on

Twitch

the cars being there

at similar

the photos

you know what I mean

indisputably a [ __ ] lie

literally ended stream immediately to go

there

Destiny is now saying the car being

there Cruise the photos were taken

within similar time

windows

a small time window that hurts your

argument

because I was sitting here live

when the first

was posted

can I do time traveling

simple as that

I heard about the news with Saudi Arabia

okay let's get into the [ __ ] news

because there's a lot

are you Arab obs

I am

Destiny's a [ __ ] [ __ ] he's literally

a [ __ ] [ __ ] forever

all right we're gonna get to the news

foreign

So speaking of uh arranged fights and

it's just like a little funny thing to

lighten the mood a little bit

uh kedirov responded to Elon musk's uh

challenge to uh Putin

he said Elon Musk a word of advice don't

measure your strength against Putin

you're two different leagues and it's

not even about martial art or Judo how

do you see it are you in a red quarter

of a boxing ring a businessman and

Twitter user and Putin in blue a world

politician and strategist who inspires

all in the West in the U.S

to look unsportsmanlike when he beats

the hell out of you a much weaker

opponent

therefore you need to pump up those

muscles in order to change from the

gentle Ilona to the brutal Elon you need

to be

I propose training at one of the several

centers at the Chechen Republic Russian

Special Forces you will return from the

Chechen public as a completely different

person

Ilona that is Elon

ah

looks like there's a similar situation

here

that happened tonight

a lot of [ __ ] bluffing Elon Musk

keep up the lighthearted news

I'm going to show you something kind of

funny

so

check this out

American and British mercenaries are

running away from the front lines in

Ukraine

ukrainians are cutting up their

passports and sending them back to the

front lines no weapons in kit this isn't

Cod right they're not

oh [ __ ] my phone broke

I know then

what hold on look what he's saying now

look what Destiny's saying now hold on

this is so [ __ ] weird so I you have

to [ __ ] uh explain what this means

this is what Destiny's saying now it was

a rerun people saw the clock in the

background

what

what [ __ ] clock

what is this

what [ __ ] clock

what is he [ __ ] talking about

my clock

what is that

what does that mean

what does clock mean

what [ __ ] clock

what clock what does that even mean

and

he's saying you had a clock in my room I

don't have a clock in my room

I don't have a [ __ ] clock in my room

[ __ ] dumbass

this is the last tweet I'm gonna make

beta male bottle

all the fairy tales I claim about Haas

are wrong

and lies but are needed for morale just

like the ghost of Kiev

this is okay so let me be clear hold on

I want to actually ask something so is

this like a comparison to how they judge

the conspiracy theories they make about

RT and Russian misinformation

is it the same thing all this [ __ ] that

they make about [ __ ] RT

is the same

oh they're saying the live stream was

pre-recorded right is that why I was

reacting to chat in real time you

[ __ ] dumbasses

this is literally this is okay so this

is what the mainstream media does right

this is what the pro Ukraine people do

they just [ __ ] lie and make [ __ ] up

that's what they [ __ ] do

that's how they lie about Russia and

Ukraine and in Syria same [ __ ] it's the

same tactics the way they [ __ ] lie

about Russia in Syria and Ukraine

let's continue this is actually funny

[ __ ]

so

so these guys wanted to show up for a

fight in Ukraine right where they went

to Ukraine

believing all the headlines that the

Russians are totally getting wiped out

and the Russians are being defeated and

they're being routed and the Ghost of

Kiev and all this [ __ ] dumb made-up

[ __ ] thank you Martin dog they

believed all that [ __ ] right

um so they actually showed up to Ukraine

to fight the Russians where they thought

oh this is this is going to be easy the

Ukrainian military is crushing those

Russians right the Russians are stalled

and they're routed and they have all

these it's a big disaster You know

despite that the Russians are claiming

everything's going on schedule and that

you know the pretty fine situation

um the Western media is claiming that

it's a really bad time for Putin in

Ukraine right so these are the

volunteers who first hand uh witnessed

the situation

I wonder

what they have to report to us many

people who are wondering what is going

on all right all right we were part of

the Georgia National Legion 102nd

Ukrainian territorial defense okay

our base got [ __ ] up the base right

next to us got [ __ ] up

Americans British tons of British Dead

all right they're not saying nothing

they're counting our dead as they're

dead

they're trying to send us to Kiev with

no [ __ ] weapons no kid no [ __ ]

plates the people who are lucky enough

to get weapons are only getting

magazines with like 10 [ __ ] rounds

okay when they wanted to send us to Kiev

we said no our whole group a bunch of

America

Kim's Canadian they're calling him a

Russian asset really

it's like they're turning into

conspiracy theorists they they have no

connection to truth anymore it's

complete [ __ ] psychosis British so

they told us we had to get the [ __ ] out

of there we're going to shoot us in the

back all right so me this British guy

and another American we [ __ ] hid in

the back of an ambulance to get out we

we got to the border and it was a whole

nother mess

when you get to the Border anyone who

has kit anyone who has any military ship

they're [ __ ] pulling you out of the

line and they're sending you back to the

front this human we got dropped off

about five clicks from the [ __ ] uh

from the border and we walked

um

and we get to the Border in this

humanitarian group with a bunch of xsf

veterans from England uh pull us through

signs that you need to get like pulled

us out and [ __ ] like hit us and they

were like you need to dump all your kit

they're pulling people out cutting up

passports sending them back so we dumped

our [ __ ] we got like in all of our

[ __ ] we got in like Red Cross vests

and they had like [ __ ] humanitarian

passes to get us through the Ukrainian

border

people need to stop coming here it's a

trap and they're not letting you [ __ ]

leave

the best way to leave is like in a Vic

or a car guess what

I don't give a [ __ ] about these people I

don't care anymore I don't feel bad for

them [ __ ] them [ __ ] you you want to go

to a foreign country and and wage

someone else you know [ __ ] you you piece

of [ __ ] I don't give a [ __ ] what happens

to you I really don't [ __ ] this guy [ __ ]

him and all his [ __ ] friends too you

go to [ __ ] Ukraine to fight the

Russians you're a piece of [ __ ] [ __ ]

scumbag in my eye I don't give a [ __ ]

what happens to you

and I'm that's the extent of what I'm

allowed to say

I don't give a [ __ ] [ __ ] what happens

to you

stupid Reddit [ __ ] cause I'm sick of

these [ __ ] redditor piece of [ __ ]

scumbags I don't feel empathy for them I

feel like they just gotta learn things

the hard way you know I really feel like

they have to learn things the wrong way

they have to learn it the hard way

or something people who get on by

vehicle have a better chance of hiding

their [ __ ] kit in the back doing

whatever the [ __ ] they can but do not

struggle if you play it off but if

you're a volunteer

it's a mess

and it's it it's a trap and I have

multiple people who can confirm this

story for me I'm getting

all right so you think okay maybe he's a

Russian asset right well there's more

there's lots more actually I'm saying

lots more there's actually a lot more

this is a Brazilian who was high off of

the Reddit copium of the ghost of Kiev

and a Ukrainian Reaper so he decided

he's going to go to Ukraine and fight

those Russians he's gonna have an easy

time yeah

[Music]

foreign

[Music]

well maybe that's just another Russian

agent right I mean who knows it's

probably just another Russian agent

so let's continue that's got to be

another Russian agent

um clearly you know no way better than

anything else

there's actually so much [ __ ] I want to

show you okay here yeah so this is

that's got to be a Russian agent right

except

uh oh God there's also more so just like

Syria would be one to go join Isis

except it's the MCU Isis it's coming to

Ukraine no offense but I'd really prefer

if you left my country immediately

no offense but what are you doing to

help our country telling dumb [ __ ] like

you to stay home I'm a Ukrainian Russian

you dumb [ __ ] the dirty yeah

so there's that

I have family in Ukraine I'm half

Ukrainian my family's in danger right

now go [ __ ] yourself

uh they're telling you to leave not come

I guess these are all Russian agents

right all Russian agents they presume

all Russians Russia Russia Russia it's

all fake

I like this new like Vibe change where

it's like

they have to start becoming the crazy

conspiracy theorists we don't have to do

that anymore like reality is on our side

right there's more stuff from Reddit

right

you weren't expecting missiles in a war

hold on

no just that base of the particular part

time [ __ ] surprised all of us including

the ukrainians you guys are idiots of

course they'd attack a training base

thanks man the cannon fighter terms were

just coming out of a lot of volunteers

for months this is the real [ __ ] in

people's expectations of being utilized

as a unit with operational capabilities

versus the reality of basically being

bodies in front of the advancing

Russians

morale is pretty bad I mean the whole

damn base was destroyed and the legion

is just kind of shoving guys with little

training to the front not at all they

make you sign a contract that states

you'll serve to the end of the conflict

but you want to leave an hour later and

they'll totally respect that

ah

what's happening

uh I'm looking at what to show first

uh okay this is something I did want to

show

so there was a there was an attack

against the center of Donetsk by the

Ukrainian military which was intercepted

by an anti-missile system that led to 20

civilian deaths no one reported it no

one cared about it it wasn't even

brought the U.N it wasn't covered by

anyone I guess the people of the

donetsk's lives don't [ __ ] matter

right

it was a war crime

I have good news

I actually have good news

um

actually I don't know I have to be

neutral about reporting this news so

this is from Midas Touch

and this was a Maga rally right so this

is a Maga rally

in support of Donald Trump and I want to

show you what happened got a good idea

what's going on in you crying when they

went into Ukraine and they found these

labs

they believed that made that the Deep

state is possibly going to use a bio

weapon on Russian people because they've

been just like they were collecting our

DNA in China they've been collecting

their DNA as well

so Trump and Putin right now are the

only ones successfully fighting against

the Deep State I think as well as she

too who she

think about it he's not part of the CCP

Xi Jinping do you think he's working

with Putin and Trump against the Deep

State I think he probably is yeah

probably I've heard that yeah Xi Jinping

is working against the Deep state

in India yeah I've heard that Xi Jinping

Modi Vladimir Putin Donald Trump are all

working against the Deep state right and

then you've got the white hat Alliance

which is a lot of countries you know

Canada uh France he is part of the good

guys the reason I think that is because

he's remember all those [ __ ] bizo MLS

were like Oh They'll always hate China

those look what's going on guys there's

a change in the wind the wind is

changing what did I tell you about Mago

what did I tell you about Trump's people

why did I always defend them why do I

call them brothers

gonna go into Taiwan you wait to see

what I tell you when he gets into Taiwan

guess what he's gonna find

more Labs more bio Labs that is all

planned out y'all it's all planted this

is one big sting operation that's what I

believe yeah so she's in pain

Putin and Trump are the only ones

fighting uh against the Deep State and

making sure that there are no bio

weapons that's right because if they do

not stop them they will release them and

next time it'll be far worse than any

fake Coronavirus

wow

we can't endorse the message there but

we're not allowed to uh that is

um but

what did I tell you

you have to at least admit this

Trump G and Putin are part of the same

populist change

and they're starting to be International

with solidarity between us we're

starting to recognize each other

it's more beautiful than I can even

imagine right

there's another song that's been

released

uh can I show you guys a song you in a

mood for a song because this was also um

posted

just a light and light in the mood a

little bit

[Music]

foreign

[Music]

you guys remember how Fuentes was pretty

tame when he was on Twitch

as soon as he got banned from twitch his

community became monsters

what does that kind of tell you what

kind of lesson do you draw from that

because Fuentes didn't disappear he just

got more brutal more vicious and more

scary

way more scary than before

[Music]

you watch his preview of the debate with

Destiny

uh are we allowed to watch that

I think we can react to it right

I didn't see any preview

I don't have your [ __ ] at

I don't have any at

appreciate you

okay there's a lot more I have to show

you

based

so if you didn't know Russia has

sanctioned Biden and blinken

both of them are sanctioned now this is

interesting

thank you appreciate you

both are sanctioned

I have to download telegram on my

desktop again because I have it on my

laptop I just don't have a download

I have to download it again

um

okay so this is also something

interesting okay

this is what I wanted to see

so this is from Glenn Greenwald

let's do this

so the views stated are in no way my own

ayada yada yada

um but here's Glenn Greenwald talking

about Ukraine

hey everyone it's Glenn Greenwald

welcome to a new episode of system

update here on our home on Rumble there

is a major controversy that has emerged

asses in regards to the research

facilities in Ukraine out of the war in

Ukraine involving accusations being

traded back and forth between multiple

Nations about whether the United States

has biological weapons programs both in

general and specifically ones that

they're developing and have cultivated

in partnership with the ukrainians in

Ukraine right on the other side of the

Russian border and I think it's

incredibly interesting and important

controversy not because it determines

whether the Russian invasion of Ukraine

is or isn't justifiable but because the

United States is making some extremely

emphatic statements

denying that they have any biological

weapons or ever have let alone that they

have them in Ukraine and I think it's

extremely worthwhile and in fact

necessary to determine whether the US

government is telling the truth and the

statements that it is making and to

examine this question I want to look

through the prism of two historical

events one somewhat distant which is the

2001 Anthrax attacks that occurred on

U.S soil shortly after the 9 11 attack

and one more recent which is the

question of whether coronavirus strains

were manipulated in a lab in Wuhan in

order to make them more contagious and

more lethal both shed significant light

on the denials that the United States

government has spent 48 Hours issuing

over concerns that it has biological and

chemical weapons both in general and in

Ukraine so the controversy really began

because both Russia and China for weeks

I've been claiming that they have

evidence that the United States has

biological weapons Labs inside Ukraine

on March 8 2022 just this week the Tas

agency the Russian news agency published

an article quote Ukraine worked on

development of biological weapons near

Russian borders statement documents were

obtained from employees of Ukrainian

biological Laboratories about emergency

disposal a particularly dangerous

pathogens of deadly diseases Maria

zakarova said so that's coming from the

Russians they've been making this claim

for a long time actually years certainly

months but in connection with the

current Conflict for at least weeks that

there are seriously dangerous biological

weapons Labs maintained by the United

States and the ukrainians on the other

side of the Russian border the Chinese

have supported the Russians in this

claim here you see a statement from the

Chinese foreign Ministry also on March

8th quote the U.S has 336 labs in 30

countries under its control including 26

in Ukraine alone it should give a full

account of its biological military

activities at home and abroad and

subject itself to multi-lateral

verification now it should go without

saying that assertions unaccompanied by

evidence from the Chinese and Russian

government should be subjected to a

large amount of skepticism should not be

believed unless there's evidence

presented Justice is true of assertions

unaccompanied by evidence from the

Pentagon the state department the White

House or any other part of the US

government in fact any other government

that's our duty as journalists citizens

to be skeptical about assertions

governments make especially during

wartime when they're very prone to

disseminate propaganda lies

disinformation unless we're shown

evidence but these are this is where the

debate started both the Chinese and the

the Russians are emphatic that they have

evidence for the existence of these Labs

now once this

claim started emerging early on in the

war you don't trust Glenn Greenwald we

don't have to trust him just [ __ ]

hear what he's saying American Media

outlets and his reasoning that he's

using rushed to declare it a lie false a

conspiracy theory even though it was

impossible for these news agencies to

know for certain whether there were

chemical weapons labs in Ukraine or

biological weapons programs in Ukraine

they pretended that they knew and

published articles under their elevated

Noble supposedly neutral and above it

all title fact Checkers which is

designed to make you think that this

isn't an opinion column it's not just a

regular news article that you've come to

these are fact Checkers they are the

ones the Arbiters of Truth and falsity

so you see here from February 25th the

day after the Russians invaded Ukraine

from PolitiFact quote there are no U.S

run bio labs in Ukraine contrary to

social media posts how does PolitiFact

know that of course they didn't know

that how would they possibly know that

how could they prove the negative but

they asserted it because it was

important to the U.S government

here factcheck.org March 2nd quote

social media posts misrepresent U.S

Ukraine threat Reduction Program

there is a threat Reduction Program that

the United States has and former Soviet

republics such as Ukraine designed to

get biological weapons and chemical

weapons under control and that's what

they're referring to but they have no

idea as well whether they're active

biological and chemical Labs the

Russians and Chinese are alleging they

just simply decreed it to be false

because their allegiances to the United

States government here USA Today also on

February 25th the day after the Russian

invasion quote fact check false so guys

this is what's this is why I'm just not

I'm complying with the rules about

misinformation and stuff

but there's some things I can't

compromise on and it's worth it if I'm

not allowed to be here because of that I

I this is like a this is like a line I I

can't [ __ ] find it in me to just not

cross because

you just saw tonight when it came to

like how these people lie

and you're starting to [ __ ] see

how

the so-called factually verified

information is based on in in large part

lies who who fact checks the fact

Checkers huh who does that is anyone

there to do that I mean it's like I

can't do this [ __ ] I can't just agree

with whatever the [ __ ] fact Checkers

say because they've proven their bias

and their willingness to [ __ ] lie I

mean to be completely honest with you

all of this was proven during Trump's

presidency

all of this was proven during Trump's

presidency when we started to see how

the mainstream media in a very like

directly observable way are [ __ ]

Liars the fact Checkers were Liars many

scientists have lied

about some things

I do believe in truth I genuinely

believe in truth I just can't bring

myself to lie so I can't bring myself to

just shut up you know about some things

I can't I just can't

those claims of U.S bio labs in Ukraine

tied to Russian disinformation campaign

I get it there's a lot of misinformation

I debunk a lot of that misinformation

but there's also misinformation that

comes from fact Checkers who are

supposed to fact check the

misinformation itself

you know

let's remember that right before the

2020 election when the genuine documents

from Hunter Biden's laptop emerged

concerning Joe Biden's activities and

pursuit of business opportunities in

Ukraine and China with Hunter Biden and

Joe Biden's brother trading on his

influence

this is the same claim they made oh

those documents are Russian

disinformation this is what they always

say when they want you to disbelieve a

story they actually have no idea here

from foreign policy March 2nd you see

how they're all doing it at once the

first week of the war quote false claims

false claims of U.S bio Warfare labs in

Ukraine gret Q Anon the conspiracy

theory has been boosted by Russian and

Chinese media and diplomats

why was it so crucial for these

quote-unquote fact Checkers which are

just journalists and reporters

pundits pushing an ideology masquerading

as something more elevated and Noble

fact checking why was it so important

for them to definitively assert not that

there was no evidence for these claims

but these claims were false when they

couldn't possibly know that obviously

any biological weapons programs in

Ukraine in partnership with the United

States or otherwise would be highly

secretive and classified they would

never tell the media the U.S of course

would falsely deny it if it were true

so they had no way of knowing and yet

look at them they all like hurt animals

United and rushed to Proclaim it falls

now I didn't talk about this issue or

mention this issue because I had no way

of discerning these who was telling the

truth or lying with these competing

claims the Russian in the Chinese on one

side the Americans and the ukrainians

denying on the other

I began talking about it in fact I wrote

an article yesterday substack I'm now

doing this video only because

the top official

at the state department in charge of

Ukraine under both the Obama and now

Biden administration's Victoria Newland

who notably before working for Hillary

Clinton State Department also was the

National Security the deputy National

Security adviser to Dick Cheney in the

early part of the war on terror and then

became George W Bush's Ambassador denado

she's a classic Washington neocon and

warmonger and hawk and yet you see you

just kind of mutates from one administ

some on the right some on the left she

just stays in control of of Ukraine

showing how Washington has a una party

one ideology when it comes to war there

was only one Administration where she

wasn't welcome and that was the Trump

Administration but the two

administrations before that the bush and

Obama administrations and now the Biden

Administration she's fully in charge of

this region of the world and she went on

May on March 7th so just a couple days

ago to testify before the Senate Foreign

Relations Committee

and she was asked about these she was

asked about these uh claims

by Senator Marco Rubio

who clearly expected and wanted her to

Simply deny them he asked her as you're

about to see does Ukraine have

biological and chemical weapons programs

and I expected he expected everyone

expected her to say no senator of course

not and he would then hold up that up as

debunking the Russian and Chinese

accusations in Chinese accusations

but that's not what she said

she said something much different listen

to what she said not just the first part

in response to that question but also

what she added on to it and watched

their body language as well how halting

and nervous and uncertain she is this is

a a person who has lots of experience

decades in Washington she's a very

cockshore aggressive articulate very has

a great facility with that kind of

official ease that the state department

uses but that completely abandons her

here as Senator Rubio confronted her

with this question and it was only after

her admission

under oath before the Senate that you're

about to hear did I start believing

there was something to the story because

she said so I have a minute left let me

ask you

um

does Ukraine have chemical or biological

weapons

uh Ukraine has a

biological research facilities which in

fact we are now quite concerned Russian

troops Russian forces may be seeking to

uh gain control of so we are working

with the ukrainians on how they can

prevent any of those research materials

from falling into the hands of Russian

forces should they approach I'm sure

you're aware that the Russian propaganda

groups are already putting out there all

kinds of information about how they've

uncovered a plot by the ukrainians to

release biological weapons in the

country and with NATO's coordination if

there's a biological or chemical weapon

incident or or attack inside of Ukraine

is there any doubt in your mind that 100

it would be the Russians that would be

behind it there is no doubt in my mind

Senator and it is classic Russian

uh technique to blame on the other guy

what they're planning to do themselves

first of all it's so almost hilarious

how often they make these claims about

Russia they take extremely common human

behaviors such as what about ISM which

is nothing more than if somebody accuses

you of you doing something you point to

the accusers bad acts as a way of

equalizing you to them or just everyone

does that that's very common in

international relations and human

behavior

and yet they'll constantly claim oh what

about ism is a unique specialty of the

Soviets and now the Russians as though

nobody else does this it was like

invented in some sophisticated lab the

idea that if someone accuses you of

something you point out that they

actually do it too they always say oh

this is a Russian specialty tradecraft

of Russia that's what she's saying here

too she's talking about just projection

that whatever you do you accuse others

of doing that's a very common

psychological Dynamic Sigmund Freud and

young and all kinds of psychologists

have talked about this at length I've

written about it but in her mind this is

a classic Russian tactic to accuse the

other guy of what you're doing

but what's most notable here you see how

Senator Rubio interrupted her as she was

doing something very uncharacteristic

for her and for neocons and for senior

U.S foreign policy officials she was

for some reason telling a version of the

truth he obviously was extremely alarmed

that she was she didn't say no

when asked does Ukraine have biological

and chemical weapons she instead said

they have biological research facilities

now that is a vague phrase what are

biological research facilities it would

have been possible had she stopped there

to claim that oh they're just like very

benign almost like high school level

chemistry labs they have a few like

Bunsen burners and flasks and you just

kind of research they like pour vinegar

into water and watch it explode the way

11th graders do the problem is for the

US government is she didn't stop there

she went on and she said

whatever is in these biological research

Labs is so dangerous

that the U.S government is Gravely

concerned about the possibility that it

would fall into Russian hands that

Russian forces would acquire them as

they approached and she said for that

reason

the U.S government is working closely

with the ukrainians to secure these

facilities to make sure that Russian

forces they don't fall into Russian

hands

why would she be concerned about these

biological research facilities in

Ukraine falling into Russia's hands

unless what's in these facilities is

very dangerous that they can either that

they either are weapons or can easily be

converted into weapons

that's the obvious question that emerges

from what she in very halting

uncertain terms set you can speculate

about why she told the truth my guess is

she was telling the truth when she said

we're actively working

right this minute with the ukrainians to

make sure these labs are secured and so

when Senator Rubio asked her do does

Ukraine have biological and chemical

weapons she didn't want to lie in that

moment in front of a open hearing she it

was in her mind that she's working on

these labs and so she told the truth

inadvertently whatever her motives are

you can just speculate about that she

said what she said which is not just

that they have these research Labs

biological research Labs but that they

are sufficiently dangerous that they are

very Gravely concerned very worried that

they will fall into Russian hands

leading to the question what is in these

biological research Labs that make them

so dangerous that you would be afraid of

them falling into Russian hands now

obviously the Russians and the Chinese

seized on this testimony a lot of

journalists maybe not a lot but some

including me wrote about it and reported

on it and so people went to the US

government they said

what is she talking about what's going

on here

do you in fact have biological weapons

programs remember that was Senator

Rubio's question

in Ukraine and so the US government had

to come out and emphatically deny

that they have biological weapons of any

kind let alone that they have them in

Ukraine here's from a long multi-tweet

thread from White House Press Secretary

Jen saki who sometimes appears more like

the president

than the press secretary but she went

onto Twitter and she wrote quote we took

note of Russia's false claims about

alleged U.S biological weapons labs and

chemical weapons development in Ukraine

we've also seen Chinese officials Echo

these conspiracy theories she went on

quote the United States is in full

compliance with its obligations under

the chemical weapons convention and the

biological weapons convention and does

not develop or possess such weapons

anywhere quote it's Russia that has a

long and well-documented track record of

using chemical weapons including an

attempted assassinations and poisoning

of Putin's political enemies like Alexi

navami

now that Russia has made these false

claims and China has seemingly endorsed

this propaganda we should all be on the

lookout for Russia to possibly use

chemical or biological

what a weird [ __ ] thing to say what a

weird [ __ ] thing to say happens in

Ukrainian to create a false flag

operation using them it's a clear

pattern

that is an extremely dangerous

prediction

that Russia is now about to use

biological or chemical weapons inside

Ukraine that they will claim that it

comes from the ukrainians in the United

States the United States will claim that

it actually comes from Russia you're

talking about weapons of mass

destruction attack on European soil

where both sides are going to dispute

who is responsible she's predicting

basically that that will happen

but I think

it's really important to understand how

eager the government was to deny this

here is Pentagon press secretary John

Kirby who similarly stated quote we are

not developing biological or chemical

weapons inside Ukraine this is textbook

Russian propaganda the state department

got into the ACT they posted the

statement on Twitter quote fact the

United States does not have chemical and

biological weapons labs in Ukraine

and then they added the U.S is in full

compliance with those obligations under

the biological weapons convention and

does not develop or possess chemical and

biological weapons anywhere

here's the state department the

kremlin's allegations of chemical and

biological weapons Laboratories in

Ukraine they said it does not own or

operate any chemical or biological labs

in Ukraine it's in full compliance with

these treaties it does not develop or

possess such weapons anywhere it is

Russia that has such programs and

they're in violation of the conventions

so

that's the U.S government's position we

do not ever have chemical or biological

weapons we're in full compliance to the

treaties that ban any country from

developing chemical or biological

weapons and it's Russia the Russians

that do that not us

now

is she telling that is the US government

telling the truth

we don't know

possibly they are and possibly they're

they're not and that's what I want to

examine with you by looking first at

what happened

with the 2001 Anthrax attacks because it

shines a huge amount of light on whether

the US government is telling the truth

and issuing these statements a lot of

you

probably are too young to really

remember the 2001 Anthrax attacks some

of you who lived through that extremely

traumatizing and turbulent time in the

weeks after 9 11 probably have your

memories faded about it or have

forgotten about it so you just want to

walk through it's an incredibly

fascinating event with a lot of

mysteries surrounding it still I spent

two or three years reporting heavily on

the anthrax attacks and I just want to

show you some of the really pertinent

parts that illuminate the question of

whether the US government is telling the

truth here so

here is an article from The New York

Times October 12 20 uh 2001 so just a

month after the New York the 9 11

attacks quote Anthrax found an NBC News

Aid an assistant to the NBC anchor Tom

Brokaw has tested positive for Anthrax

infection more than two weeks after she

opened a threatening letter addressed to

Mr Brokaw that contained a white powder

official said yesterday now

it is impossible to overstate the

significance of the anthrax attacks on

the mindset and psyche of the American

public obviously 911 was an incredibly

traumatizing event three thousand

Americans died it was done in

spectacular fashion but for a lot of

Americans they looked at it and they saw

that it was actually

isolated in power centers in Washington

and New York and therefore people who

lived in other parts of the country

could maintain some psychological

distance

the anthrax attacks changed all of that

they were highly weaponized strains of

Anthrax not the kind that occur in

nature but manipulated in Labs highly

highly sophisticated science that

weaponize them and they were sent

through the mailboxes to numerous

prominent figures like Tom Brokaw like

Senator Tom daschel and many others it

ended up killing five people people who

worked the post office people who just

ran into the anthrax in the course of

its travel and it convinced people

this is like James Bond stuff now and

it's not just people who live in New

York and Washington it's actually coming

right through our mailboxes like I

didn't save the Russian military was

still in Ukraine I said if they

completed their operation by then

and yes I'm a man of my word

those sacred place of American Suburbia

they everybody felt threatened by this

really unsettled you cannot overstate

the importance of the anthrax attacks

and what was so alarming about them was

that the U.S government was saying this

is not naturally occurring Anthrax

somebody manipulated it into a weapon

into a biological weapon that's what

made it so scary

here was the letter that accompanied at

least several of the envelopes

containing the anthrax here's the one to

Tom Brokaw

quote it stated September 11 2001

obviously intended in the public mind

till they get to 911. this is next take

penicillin now deck to America debt to

Israel Allah is great obviously

intending to create the impression that

the same people who perpetrated 911 were

the ones behind the anthrax attacks now

here is a video clip from ABC News on

October 15 2001 just to give you a sense

for what was in the air about these

Anthrax attacks for those of you who

don't remember it those of you who

didn't live through it look how

terrifying this was the more that was

mailed also today anthrax was discovered

in the Boca Raton post office in Florida

that handled mail for the American Media

Company where one person died from

Anthrax a senior federal health official

told ABC News the strain of Anthrax

found in Florida is confirmed as the

so-called aim strain a strain originally

cultivated in Iowa but used in research

lab territories around the world leading

and you guys [ __ ] believe how much

we're lied to you [ __ ] believe how

much lies there are

authorities on biological agents say the

aim strain strongly suggests a

sophisticated operation right it's all

for it's ultimately serves a good ends

right

at the White House

President Bush was asked if there is a

connection to Osama Bin Laden we're

making sure that we connect

any dots that we have to find out who's

doing this and uh I wouldn't put it past

him but we don't now here there that the

only thing we knew for sure is that

somebody weaponized this strain this was

a biological weapon

we didn't know who did it they were

obviously suggesting it was Osama bin

Laden but there was no proof but there

you see George Bush at least giving

credence to that theory

but what happened almost immediately

after was that leak started coming from

the government through the media through

ABC News specifically designed to blame

Saddam Hussein

for the anthrax claiming that they did

an analysis on the anthrax and

discovered the presence of a clay

substance called Bentonite which they

try to imply with some incredibly

nefarious substance in reality it's just

the clay that's used in cat litter it's

incredibly common but they tried to

claim that only Iraq uses Bentonite in

their Anthrax biological weapons program

leading Americans to believe that it was

Iraq that was responsible this was put

into The Ether for at least a week in

the immediate aftermath of 9 11 here you

see from Peter Jennings the then anchor

of ABC World News Tonight on October

26th he went on the air and this is what

he said quote ABC News has learned what

made the anthrax so dangerous in the

letter to Senator Tom daschel was a

particular additive which only one

country as far as we know that's a very

important caveat only one country as far

as we know has used to produce

biological weapons he then had Brian

Ross the now fire investigative reporter

on ABC News tonight and this is what he

said quote the discovery of Bentonite

came in an urgent series of tasks

conducted at Fort Detrick Maryland and

elsewhere this is what Bentonite looks

like under a microscope a substance

which helps keeps the tiny Anthrax

particles floating in the air by

preventing them from sticking together

it is possible

said Brian Ross other countries may be

using it too but it is a trademark of

Sodom Hussein's biological weapons

program

now here you see the Weekly Standard

which is the neocon rag that was run at

the time by Bill Crystal and Stephen F

Hayes who wrote a book claiming that

Saddam Hussein and Al-Qaeda had an

alliance together that Sodom was

impersonally involved in 911 is what

that implied

they were neocon Central

Stephen Hayes who wrote that book full

of eyes and disinformation propaganda

was just hired by NBC News there they

here's an article from them on November

12th immediately praising ABC news for

blaming it on Saddam Hussein

surprisingly good guys and more this is

a neocon scheme to blame the

sophisticated attack on Iraq because

they even before 9 11 had designs on

overthrowing Sodom Hussein quote on the

critical issue of who sent the anthrax

it's time to give credit to the ABC

website abcnews.com for reporting Rings

about around most other news

organizations this is what the Weekly

Standard said here's a bit from a

comprehensive story filed late last week

by Gary Matthew

Matsumoto leading lending further

Credence to the common sensical Theory

resisted by the White House that Al

Qaeda or Iraq and not some domestic Ted

Kaczynski type is behind the germ

warfare Iraq continues to flaunt its

hostility toward America and to support

Terror the Iraqi regime has plotted to

develop Anthrax and nerve gas oh this is

George Bush at a time when David Frum

was his speech writer in the State of

the Union Address just a month later

blaming Iraq as well Iraq continues to

flaunt its hostility toward America and

to support Terror the Iraqi regime has

plotted to develop Anthrax and nerve gas

and nuclear weapons for over for other

for over a decade so you see this

movement into 2002 to take what is

clearly a biological weapons attack and

blame it on Iraq now as it turned out

ABC News admitted a week after

disseminating it all over the place John

McCain went on David Letterman the first

David Letterman show after 9 11 and said

L shut the [ __ ] up shut up literally

shut up and stop spamming my [ __ ]

chat

we believe the anthrax attacks are came

from Iraq ABC News eventually

acknowledged that their sources got that

wrong that there was no bent Knight

discovered in the anthraction that

there's no indication that it came from

Iraq they admitted that but the damage

was done it's all in the air blame it

you [ __ ] ruin it for everyone and it

makes me not even want to look at chat

every time I [ __ ] look at seeing you

type in all caps to just leave me alone

I've saw it okay

Anthrax on Iraq so the question became

who launched this biological weapons

attack on American soil it is absolutely

development of biological weapons that

was launched on American soil

now

as I said it's hard to overstate the

impact that Anthrax had people remember

that 911 is what caused the trauma but

the anthrax attacks really

that's what got Americans so unraveled

here's an article by The Washington Post

longtime columnist Richard Cohen he's

always been their token liberal but he

was adamantly in favor of the Iraq War

when Colin Powell went and made his

presentation to the U.N he famously or

notoriously wrote after seeing Colin

Powell's evidence only a fool or a

Frenchman would doubt that Saddam

Hussein had

weapons of mass destruction and here he

is in 2004 admitting he got that wrong

and describing why listen to what he

said quote Anthrax played a role in my

decision to support the bush

administration's desire to take out

Saddam Hussein I linked him to Anthrax

which I linked to September 11th I was

not going to stand by and simply wait

for another attack more attacks I was

going to go to the source Hussein and

get him before he could get us as time

went on I became more and more

questioning but I had a hard time

backing down from my initial whoop and

holler for war

that's an amazing admission that he The

Washington Post columnist for foreign

policy believed that it was Saddam

Hussein who was behind both the 9 11

attacks and the anthrax attacks here he

was in 2008 and slate once again

revisiting and doing a male culpa for

all the columns he wrote cheering on the

Iraq War entitled how did I get a rock

wrong listen to what he said about the

anthrax attacks it's always been so

mysterious

to me listen

he's explaining why he supported Iraq

the war in Iraq quote Anthrax remember

Anthrax it seems no one else what are

these [ __ ] people what can they say

now what can they [ __ ] say

um

it blew up in their [ __ ] face what

can you even [ __ ] say I just I'm in a

[ __ ] dominating mood I just feel like

these people have been so [ __ ]

dominated now I just want something from

it

I just [ __ ] want something from it

now

holy [ __ ] this was the biggest

miscalculation from that piece of [ __ ]

biggest [ __ ] miscalculation

what a [ __ ] miscalculation why

Empower me so much like this holy [ __ ]

blew up in his [ __ ] face

and that's how this [ __ ] works guys

you introduce chaos to the mix

with this stupid [ __ ] Destiny he's gonna

slip up one day and today tonight he

slipped up

introduce enough chaos he'll slip up

eventually I got nothing but time and

guess what he slipped up

he [ __ ] destroyed his whole [ __ ]

side he proved that I am with truth

and he has retroactively called into

question every single thing they've ever

said about us not only that they've also

called him to question every single

narrative they've spun about the events

in Ukraine every their whole credibility

and grasp on truth in general is done we

represent truth now

there we represent the truth now they're

the ones warping reality we are the

direct barefaced truth everyone saw it

in real time

that is a very dangerous and Reckless

thing for a liberal who wants to combat

tankies to [ __ ] hand us on a plate

but Destiny just handed it to us

I'm going to war with this [ __ ] till

the end of time until their career is

all but over or there are eclipsed so

severely that it's like I just [ __ ]

completely pass them by

again this was The Wrong Enemy

and if you think Destiny's not fully

invested in this he is the difference is

I'm open about it he's not he copes and

pretends to laugh fake laughter he's got

a lot of emotions in this he got his

wife involved that's how much this is in

eating away at him in his [ __ ] head

and I am not going to [ __ ] blink or

Flinch I'm gonna do this until the very

end

keep in mind guys I'm nobody he's been

here for 12 [ __ ] years I came out of

nowhere I came out of nowhere and I'm

gonna bring this Destiny I'm gonna bring

his [ __ ] career on a roller coaster

ride which is gonna end with the end of

the brand for him

and I have nothing to [ __ ] lose and

he has 12 years of a career to lose and

There Is No Escape

There Is No Escape from this war with me

none

I am not giving up

I think he's done this before and he's

like well eventually high as well be

bullied off the internet that's that's

what I was told that this is the tactic

they do no no I have unlimited tolerance

for hatred unlimited unlimited tolerance

for hate comments unlimited tolerance it

it by now there's nothing it doesn't

even matter the threshold of hate does

not matter

it's gotten as big as it'll ever [ __ ]

get

it makes no difference it's for a long

time and hasn't made a [ __ ]

difference

you think this makes me not want to

stream anymore and what makes me want to

quit

I would rather not let's just say I

would rather not be awake

than I would rather

not be awake then quit

life to me is keeping going

I will never ever give up

I have unlimited energy and unlimited

tolerance

and this is uh something you can't just

you can't move on from this Destiny's

like he can't there's I'm gonna promise

you guys something Destiny will never be

allowed to move on to another Ark until

I surpass him so severely that he has to

give up

one of us is gonna give up and it's not

gonna be me in this war with Destiny one

of us is gonna have to give up I'm

promising you it's not me and I have

nothing to lose he has a 12th Grier

career to lose

so let me put it this way Destiny's

entire career as a streamer is going to

be about me it's going to be about me I

own his career if his career is no

longer about me he has given up and

given in and I won the war

so Destiny's entire [ __ ] streaming

career is in the end this isn't just

like a phase people are saying Destiny's

no it's not just a phase this is a fight

of career death this is a fight to the

death career-wise that's what it is it's

a war of annihilation one side must be

destroyed

either it's going to be me or it's going

to be him and by the way me being banned

is not going to accomplish that because

I'm going to keep going no matter what

happens

as far as this war is concerned

Destiny has never faced an opponent at

my level

never at my level

if Destiny starts moving on from me

starts making his content about

something different than me

he's given up

if Destiny's Twitter has to be about

something different than me he's given

up and he's lost the war

I'm not blinking I'm not giving up I'm

gonna fight this to the end

we are going to destroy dgg we're gonna

destroy that Community we're gonna

conquer them entirely and they will know

they will remember us only with fear

even if Destiny got on his [ __ ] hands

and knees right before me started

kissing my [ __ ] feet and begging me

for forgiveness I would Spit on His ugly

[ __ ] face

I am going to the end

just like Putin said just like the

Russian said the operation in Ukraine

will be finished

the war against dgg will be finished

I am pressing forward there is nothing

you can do to hold me back nothing I'm

pressing forward

breaking this community

is going to usher in a tanky Renaissance

ending this career

destroying entirely The credibility of

this person is going to Usher a thank

you Renaissance and by the way guys I

can do this I have a button to do it

I'm just biding my time and waiting for

the right moment

I have a button

it will totally ruin his image forever

Putin has a button too just a different

type of button but I have a similar

analogous button

I have an analogy of a button

I can't tell you how long this is going

to take

but the operation will be complete

it will be a complete

I

I'm going to end Destiny streaming

career simple as that

does anymore at least it's never

mentioned but right after the terrorist

attacks of September 11 2001 letters

laced with Anthrax will received the New

York Post and Tom brokaw's office at NBC

and the following days more Anthrax

contaminated letters were received by

other news organizations CBS News and

presumably ABC or traces of Anthrax were

found in The Newsroom weirdly even the

Sun is

hold on we're not going to be able to

finish this video give me a second

Tulsi talked about it Tucker Carlson

talked about it I want to show you

something as of is mobilizing in

dinipiro they have a recruiting video

from recent videos as all things

expanded rapidly in the past three weeks

two new battalions

our kid and a local defense unit and

Ivano Francis so they're getting even

bigger than they've ever gotten before

saw you on agenda free TV who

surprised you're a fan of that show

of what show

what the [ __ ] are you talking about

says dumb [ __ ]

says dumb random [ __ ]

okay guys I'm gonna be raiding into

someone

see you tomorrow

it's late trying to fix my sleep

schedule I'll see you tomorrow

remember Destiny's gonna lie as soon as

I raid he's gonna lie right so you make

sure you tell the truth in that chat

make sure you tell the truth

expose him for the [ __ ] liar he is

see you guys

you've got Tucker