Tankie debates Xanderhal

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so

let me let me just move on guys in the

chat i'm going

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do you not have like earbuds or

headphones or something to eliminate the

echo

capture i know what the fuck he's saying

window capture

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all right show your face you can see it

on my stream i only have one webcam

discord doesn't like use your same

webcam twice

i only use it on my stream or on discord

i don't have a choice

okay one second

xander so what's all this stuff you

calling me a nazi huh

no i'm saying that your rhetoric is very

similar to that of a nazi

the idea that any information that goes

against your worldview is

uh cia propaganda very much you

literally said to me in my discord or in

my uh no

no no no what i said what i said is that

it's fabricated by the cia

and by the nazis i didn't say that this

a priori means

that that's the reason it's wrong it's

just like

nazis no it's just like when nazis say

that any information

that um verifies the existence of the

holocaust is is uh

jewish propaganda it's the same fucking

thing i could link you article after

studying

through an article every single fucking

listen listen listen listen i'm not

gonna dismiss your sources

as uh as uh cia and nazi right off the

bat i'm gonna go through

with you so why are you making

assumptions i'm not here to argue about

you with

or argue with you about every fucking

source i'm drunk as fuck i'm having a

media shirt stream

i want to know where you get the idea

that there was a genocide

intentional genocide against ukrainians

sure i'll explain my reasoning so it

seems like

so it seems like i assume you know this

because you're a big old fan of the us

of you know russian usr uh hundred

percent fall in this game 100

stalinist okay cool so

do you agree with me on the idea that

there was a combination

of uh maybe mismanaged resources

as well as uh natural disasters that

caused there to be a famine

during the time of the ussr yeah there

was a fucking famine there's no dispute

about

that yes there was a drought there was

tons of natural disasters that

contributed to a phantom there was also

the fact

that it was also it was no no it was the

it was it was the collectivization that

led to famine no one denies that and

there was a drought

there's a lot of factors but yes it was

also the collectivization it was an

agricultural revolution

that distributed a fundamental means of

uh relation to production

and just like all modern revolutions in

the history of mankind

including the european kinds that led to

disasters and

famines and all sorts of horrible things

those that were just stretched out in

the span of

centuries and that led to what we call

industrial modernity especially in

england

and in the soviet union that was

condensed into a pro and a

time span of maybe half a decade okay

i'm not denying there was a fucking

catastrophe

i'm not denying maybe even millions of

people starved and died and it was a

horrible thing

what i add what i do take issue with

though is the idea

that the soviet government was

deliberately targeting ukrainians for

ethnic genocide

and that therefore it's comparable to

the holocaust that's my fucking issue

i never said it's comparable to the

holocaust also let me just go ahead and

translate we just said

to something that makes sense the

average audience essentially what

happened was

there's something called the um building

up of economic

uh sorry i'm drunk as fuck right now but

i i i'm having a good time don't worry

you're a very very fun person to talk to

um it was called building up

reproductive forces essentially what

happened was

um back then there was this big issue

where

uh uh what was to be russia was very

underdeveloped in regards to industry

right most of the people

that um were workers during this time

worked on farms

and participate in agriculture the

problem was in order to develop this

country

that or this new nation they needed to

have factories they need to have factory

workers they need to produce

um products through industrialization

the problem is

allocation of workers they started

allocating workers to work in factories

and took workers away from participating

in agriculture which was the first step

that resulted in this famine

um certain natural disasters also

contributed to this which resulted in a

huge famine to happen

now i'm not saying that what happened

with the holdem or was anywhere close to

the fucking

uh uh to the fucking holocaust my

argument is simply that there does seem

to be a little bit of evidence

behind the fact that stalin probably had

a ideologically driven

um belief that there was a worth in

in reserving resources that could keep

them alive from the ukrainians

that is what i believe that is my

opinion on the holdemur wait wait wait

there was

repeat that again it was worth stealing

resources from what

no during the holdemer when there was

this big fucking famine happening

the um government was rationing

resources they took racist they took

food and things like that away from the

uh

people obviously during a famine and

they redistributed them

to try to keep the few resources that

there were left and redistribute them to

the people

trying to keep as many people alive as

possible however there is evidence that

suggests

that stalin had a ideological drive

in keeping those resources that he was

distributing to everyone else away from

the ukrainians

why what evidence do you have for that

sure let me go over it i can bring up an

article for you if you're not gonna call

it uh hopefully you don't call it cia

propaganda well we're gonna go

we're gonna go over it and we're gonna

see its primary sources and we're gonna

see

whether it holds up are you going to

call them cia propaganda

no no we're just going to see whether it

holds up and then we can conclude

whether it's

propaganda or not on that basis is his

is

history.com like from the history

channel website is that

you're like cia listen listen i'm a guy

who i don't actually care

where the source comes from i'm just

interested in the primary sources that

it's going to refer to

unless you're going to give me a primary

source of some kind which is extremely

rare

all of these sources are secondary

sources i actually don't care if you get

it from

a random google document or the

history.com i'm interested in where it's

getting its primary sources from that's

that's very interesting because in the

message that you sent me you said that i

was repeating

cia slash nazis lies about the soviets

that's my conviction

that's my conviction that's my belief

but

in order to have an argument or a debate

about this

i can't just say it's cia propaganda

and nazi lies we're actually going to

demonstrate why this is a logical

conclusion to draw

based on the fact that the people

accusing stalin

of hating ukrainians and wanting

ukrainians to

starve and and this deliberate genocide

we're

going to demonstrate that this is a

hollow baseless claim

and then we're going to also refer to

the origins of the myth and why this

myth has become so widespread in spite

of the fact

that from a factual empirical

perspective

sustains it sure all right

so here's the uh the page this is the

first thing that comes up when you look

up

uh stalin opinion on ukrainians all

right

so you go to the history website decrees

targeting

or targeted ukrainian saboteurs okay

it's working you can hear me right

yeah i'm fixing my discord which froze

one sec

okay let's let's hear it alrighty

meanwhile sullen according to applebomb

uh already had arrested tens of

thousands of ukrainian teachers and

intellectuals and removed ukrainian

language books from schools and

libraries

she writes that soviet leaders use the

grain shortfall as an excuse for even

more intense anti-ukrainian repression

as norris notes the 1932 decree targeted

ukrainian saboteurs

in quotes ordered local officials to

stop using the ukrainian language in

their correspondence and crack down on

ukrainian

cultural policies that had been

developed in night in the 1920s

there was a very clear ideological uh uh

sort of um what's the word for it uh

antagonism

towards the ukrainians their language

their culture their intellectuals they

viewed them as being uh sort of like

saboteurs against the communist

uh okay for context for context

during what is called the stalin

revolution there was a universal

animosity

toward all of the other soviet republics

and they were calling it the type of

bourgeois nationalism that was

cultivated in the 20s

and the stalin revolution which was this

agricultural revolution that was

happening in 2002 and 23

i started 32 and 33 was generally

hostile

against all of the um all of the

nationalities of the soviet union

uh and the specific because you have to

understand that in the 20s

this revival of uh of uh

the cultures of the republics of the

soviet that constituted the soviet union

was within a certain institutional frame

and these institut this institution was

being

challenged by the stalin revolution so

there was an association of these people

with the old legacy of the 20s

and uh yeah so that's the background of

that i'm not i haven't found anything

from that source that indicates

there's a specific uh unique targeting

of ukrainians uh divorced from this

context i just described to you

sure let's continue reading then um but

the songs crop collectors went out into

the

by the way i want to clarify when

there's a fucking uh uh

like natural disasters happening we have

a famine going on i think it's

reasonable for the um

the government of the time to take

measures to try to make sure that

resources

are properly allocated to help as many

people as possible but it seems like

there was a particular effort taken

to try to withhold these resources from

the ukrainians

like every bit of evidence that i have

seen has suggested

that there was a deliberate effort to

prevent uh

survive let's go through the evidence

sure let's read over this then

when sullens crop collectors went out

into the countryside according to 1988

u.s congressional commission report

they used long wooden poles of metal

points to poke into the dirt floors of

peasants homes and probe the ground

around them

in case they buried sores of grain to

avoid detection that's

fine obviously if you're trying to

collect materials and try to reproduce

them or try to

redistribute them peasants accused of

being food hoarders typically

were sent to prison though sometimes the

collectors didn't wait to inflict

punishment

two boys were caught hiding fish and

frogs they'd caught

for example they were taken to the

village soviet where they were beaten

and then dragged into the field with

their hands tied and mouths and noses

were gagged

where they were left to suffocate as the

famine worsened

many tried to flee in search of places

with more food some died by the roadside

while others were thwarted by the secret

police and the regime system

yeah why not do you feel like you want

to defend any of this

i'm not denying there was a famine and a

lot of people were starving and

i'm curious if you want to i'm curious

if you want to defend the um

the behaviors taken here i'm curious

what behavior specifically

the behaviors of taking two children

that have found some like fish and frogs

uh pulling them out into the street and

then suffocating death in the uh

it's probably the case and i can't

confirm or deny that specific thing i

i'm not no position to deny it because

i'm not familiar with it

but right off the bat i can assume that

there were abuses that were conducted

by local officials and even stalin was

aware that those

abuses happened and were happening and

it's simply a disconnect between the

central party and the actual people on

the ground who are enforcing

it's a tragic horrible type of thing and

it happened in all the communist states

there were local abuses that happened

but to say that this represents

some direct intentional will on on

behalf of stalin or the central party

is ridiculous it is listen even mao

himself in china for example

acknowledged the fact that local

caterers and stuff

they did engage in abuses and stuff

against the people but

how could mao for example embolden and

strengthen the people

uh and fight against those officials

while at the same time

upholding the communist order and

defending the communist state from its

enemies

well that's a dialectic that actually

developed and played out

through the course of the history of the

soviet union and we're not talking about

china but also china as well you

you shared part of our video where we

kind of touch up and and talk about that

it was specifically about china but a

similar dialectic was happening in the

soviet union

and stalin actually did represent uh

did represent the peasants uh as it

would come to show

during the great purges and later after

world war ii against these type of

law officials and bureaucrats who

represented

a more urbanized city and

intellectualistic marxists and

socialists who had profound disdain

for the majority of the people so i'm

not denying

of course when you're engaging in

something like collectivization

the people who are carrying out this

collectivization

probably do have some kind of animosity

uh toward the peasant majority as a

whole

but then the tables were turned against

them for example during the great purges

and the peasants were empowered

it's a horrible tragedy but this is the

tragedy of modernity

in general you're naming all these

crimes and these horrible things

happening on the ground during an

agricultural revolution

which was necessary for

industrialization but this is the story

for literally every

all modern industrial powers that did so

independently

england the dutch you know about the

whole fucking ugly story no

i would i would argue that in every

sense that these

uh uh these countries did not handle

um uh industrialization nearly even

close to as badly as the ussr did okay

okay there are plenty of ways you can

handle industrialization

over allocating all of your resources

to fucking uh uh industrialization jobs

causing a fucking famine to happen don't

get me wrong

there were natural disasters that

happened that contributed

you just assume that the countries i

described the modern countries of uh

let's say the

from the 16th century onwards were

socialist countries who were

intentionally

modernizing their productive forces and

industrializing their countries

that's not how industrialization

happened in any of the countries

i'm saying though that the background of

this what we call

modernity and industrial modernity was

horrific

horrible shit that was definitely

comparable uh

to these uh these uh horrible things

that happened

during the communist collectivizations

of china in the soviet union they were

condensing the modern apocalypse within

a span of maybe half a decade

whereas centuries of butchery and horror

and uh divorcing of peasants for their

from their original means of production

both within europe and outside of europe

you're just

you're just all of these things made

industrial modernity

possible and yet when the soviet union

and china attempted to industrialize

independently

of the west they were confronting

similar contradictions

and similar issues that they were they

were confronting this issue of

we need to engage industrialize to

defend ourselves

but this requires a separation of the

people from their means of production of

some kind which is a very ugly and

violent process and yes

leads to wide scale famine in both cases

because

when you're separating the traditional

way in which people cultivate food and

feed themselves

and you're emptying that into a type of

rationalistic planning

there's going to be something lost in

translation if you get what i'm saying

in that translation in that process

it's a very sensitive thing you're

dealing with you're dealing with how

people feed themselves

so this revolution in the agricultural

relations and the forces of production

uh tragically yes led to famine but to

say that this is some kind of crime on

their part

uh is the epitome of hypocrisy from my

perspective

do you mind if i save you really quick

good

yeah sure so it seems like what you're

doing right now is whether you realize

it or not is you're defending capitalism

the way that capitalism and many of

these uh other western countries that

didn't participate in the uh

you know the communist uh status

bullshit

um it's it's actually providing a

defense whether you realize it or not

towards these countries because they

didn't have these same issues nearly two

even because they agree they didn't have

the the not even

close to the degree the ussr did so what

you're saying is you're having

you're unfortunately

let me save you from the argument you're

making right now okay i want to save you

right now

i'm just trying to save you okay because

you're making yourself sound really

stupid i want to help you

i feel bad for you and i want to help

you dude i'm trying to help you right

now

i'm really trying to help you right now

you sound like a fucking idiot

you're making yourself look so fucking

bad you're making yourself look so bad

for something

socialism come on let me help you dude

i'm just trying to help you fuck i just

you're hanging on the edge of the cliff

and i'm trying to reach out to help you

okay

are you listening are you done you know

i'm gonna demolish you

you know i'm gonna fucking demolish you

and that's why you try to silence me

no your fucking point is wrong if you

ignore that this was stretched out over

a period of centuries

and yes horrific catastrophes famines

and all that kind of shit

was fucking happening in europe but even

if we discount what fucking happened in

europe

ever heard of something called

colonialism you dumb fuck

and you thought that was a gotcha point

demolished

demolished done destroyed with facts and

logic

destroyed with facts and logic fucking

ranting this is actually very funny no

go live again for your viewers you just

you just went offline because you know

i'm going to beat you go back on live so

your viewers can see me beat you

i'm still alive right now is my street

is my stream down

yes it's down on twitch

is it on twitch it's still up on youtube

i think

i don't know my twitch my fucking stream

dies all the time

all right hold on keep keep ranting

please i'm really enjoying this

you said i made you're i'm making the

case for capitalist countries

which by the way your bread tube school

of dumbass

shit didn't teach you the fact that a

self-enclosed system like capitalism

didn't fucking exist in this period this

was a process of transformation

which is only vaguely the rise of

capitalism through feudalism so we're

not talking you know your notion of

capitalism is itself very socialistic

the idea of having some kind of system

which competes with another system

that's already presupposing some type of

political relationship to the economy

that you could say is socialistic you're

treating the economy as something that

serves political and social lands and

the general welfare and the well-being

of the people

that's a socialistic type of logic so

let's drop this stupid argument

but second it is really stupid to say

that i'm making the case

for the western european uh modernity

um because of this same horrors were

happening

even if we discount the things in europe

it was still happening with colonialism

which was a fucking disaster in

catastrophe

go ahead yeah my my i think my fucking

stream died it's back up sorry i was

talking to my girlfriend

um no i want to help you out okay i want

to save you okay you

don't need to argue in favor of these

like fucking

authoritarian communist regimes okay you

don't need to do that

okay first of all first of all let's

walk that back i want to walk that back

you you need to you don't need to go so

far to argue against historical

consensus

to argue against no no let's walk a few

things back that's a few things

you're mentioning a few things of the

main concepts and and

ideas behind communism and you don't

know anything about those is my problem

let's walk it back though let's walk it

back

you said the authoritarian communist

states listen to me xander hall

you and bread tube wouldn't know shit

wouldn't even be mentioning marx

you wouldn't be mentioning socialism you

wouldn't be mentioning communism

all these would be meaningless fucking

words if it were not

for the eastern people the authoritarian

asiatic despots you're kind of

hinting at they're the ones who carried

it on their fucking

shoulders and made it fucking relevant

the only reason americans go around

calling themselves communists

is because of the power created by

countries like the soviet union

in china you're basically trying to

steal that clout for them and impress

people with that power

that you didn't earn it was their power

not yours there was no libertarian

communist power

there's no libertarian communist

anything it's all fucking meaningless

trying to use the soviet union's clout

and use its reputation of which

americans are familiar with and you're

trying to say oh i'm a communist but

actually you don't know what communism

really means it means a stateless

moneyless society why don't you own up

to the meaning of this capital c

word communists just fucking say you

appreciate what do you think of

communism

what do you think communism is communism

for marx

was the real movement that sublates the

present state of things a lot of people

think it's abolish it's not it's a

mislead translation it's sublates

marx didn't talk about abolishing

capitalism it's such a silly and stupid

thing to say

but anyway if communism is something

real and objective and material

then we have to refer to communism based

on

the people who actually gave meaning to

the fucking word which are the

ones you're calling the authoritarian

states the only reason we're talking

about communism is because of the

experience

corresponding to those states there's

nothing else there's nothing else

those anarchists in spain were just

shitting up the fucking spanish popular

front who were actually the real ones

there

same thing goes for all the other

anarchists true communists you want to

refer to let me give you the background

of bread tube and libertarian socialism

during the 60s a lot of these wet diaper

uh

youth generation were trying to rebel

against the established

soviet communist parties so they revived

anarchism which is a dead and done

completely irrelevant stupid i think

libertarianism

just as a way of expressing dissent

because of their disappointment

their western chauvinistic

disappointment

against the soviet union and against

these

in other sense the against the

experience of china and other

authoritarian communist countries

they were literally just trying to rebel

against them they were trying to say

well we don't like capitalism and we

don't like the current state of affairs

but you know those the real existing

examples of socialism and communism

we don't really like those so we're

going to it all came from the 60s it's

all bullshit created by the cia probably

in the fucking deep state as for this

stuff about i gotta defend

the communist states dude of course

we're against the fucking establishment

and the establishment narrative

no we're not the we're not the type of

people who uh who agree with the blue

check

uh establishment narrative yes we are

with those um

anti-establishment forces and all that

kind of stuff yes we are

and dude by the way i'm a lysenkowist by

the way you didn't even know about that

either

huh fuck that i have no idea what the

fuck like sentiment

science is also both mainstream science

is also pretty much bullshit

wait hold on how deep is the deep state

you mentioned the deep state earlier how

deep is it

yeah what do you mean how deep is it

it seems like it's pretty tell me about

the keepsake now i want to learn about

people

research a guy named kantbot and ed

berger and they're fucking doing

research

showing mapping it on the fucking

surface it's all on the fucking surface

look it up eberg on twitter and combat

can you be ultra zero subscribe to their

thing and

uh you know they're on a uh patreon or

some kind of thing you can listen to

their fucking

podcast and they're dropping deep red

pills about that shit they're mapping it

all it's on the fucking surface dude

it's not some kind of crazy conspiracy

they actually showed me

wrapping it on the surface holy shit i'm

going to be completely honest

i'm so glad foundation so fucking glad

hold on wait wait please link me your

twitch i need to sub to you because it's

the most enjoyable fucking time i've

ever had you are so

fucking entertaining tv infrared show

or show infrared i forget which one

thank you i i'm i'm going to

sub to you because holy shit this is the

most shit i've ever heard in my life

please keep going yes please keep going

please keep going i want to hear more

this is the most entertaining thing i've

ever heard in my life what do you want

to hear hear any anything you want what

do you want to hear

uh tell me about the deep state tell me

about uh lysenko-ism

tell me more you want me which one the

deep state or less synchronism which one

tell me about the the red pill tell me

more just everything just keep going

okay just let your heart guide you i

don't know what you're interested in

hearing

i mentioned a few just let your heart

guide you i want to hear more

because you lost the debate is that why

you're trying yes i lost debate no

please keep telling me more i'm

being educated right now educate me yeah

i want to hear more

you can call me a crazy person no i just

want to hear more

i just want to hear more based on what

no more let your heart guide you let

your heart guide you

tell what do you want to talk about

okay let's talk about the fact let's

talk about the fact

that bread tube are a bunch of fake

socialists bred too much of fake

socialist

and the fraud squad who voted for nancy

pelosi why

explain that to me why don't we talk

about why they voted for nancy pelosi

again even though they didn't fucking

have to

because every other possibility that's

why you've got to move

them to defeat the ashes of buying

fucking one dude why did they vote for

nancy blows you go

sure because it's probably the most

plausible uh pragmatic option to make

why is that probably because no other

candidate that was more progressive

could probably make it and the only

other ones that were only speak of

pragmatism

with a predefined set of conditions of

possibility

whereas if you're actually a true

socialist like all these people

true progressive you redefine the

conditions of possibility

of course everything's fucking pragmatic

when you're on your fucking knees for

what's already

the status quo and the establishment the

whole point is to build a new people's

power the whole point is to challenge

the fucking establishment why did they

vote for nancy pelosi go ahead explain

it

do you believe what did you vote i'm

curious did you vote in the uh

i don't vote see don't vote okay i will

only vote as my duty as part of an

independent organization

i'm not part of an organization right

now that's the only reason i would ever

fucking vote

voting as an individual individualistic

cookery

is for libs i'm not a fucking lib cock i

don't go and vow why the fuck would i

get off my fucking bed

and drive to the fucking pose and vote

as an individual we're a stupid fucking

thing

sorry go ahead i'm i'm actually curious

if you're trolling right now

i'm not trolling so you don't care about

i'm high energy

i'm a high energy i'm not you're

you know what i'm saying we're reviving

communism down with the socialist cucks

you know what i'm saying we're going

viral infrared visualizing

hold on i'm really curious wait i need i

need you to stand up and show me your

chest because you're so high energy i

think you have a fucking iron man arc

reactor in your chest right now that's

how how high energy you are right now

i want to see your chest show me your

chest

look at my chest it's so big oh yeah

yeah yeah exactly so so so what is it

about go ahead go

tell your point about why they had to

fucking do uh force the vote

wait why they had to do force the vote

uh why did they fucking vote for nancy

pelosi and why did you guys slander

jimmy dore

and she try to shit on jimmy jor why

because jimmy dore is trying to keep the

flame alive

for a new people's power and new

progressive politics independently of

the fucking democratic establishment

you tell me why you've read two people

who are supposed to be socialist

supposed to be offering some kind of

fucking alternative tried to

do a hit piece on jimmy dore accused of

being a fascist and you were

chilling for fucking nancy pelosi and

the squad's betrayal of the people you

explain that to me and you keep laughing

infrared's going viral

you're gonna be yesterday's news pretty

soon keep laughing

is nancy pelosi part of the squad she's

part of the establishment and the squad

capitulated to her by fucking voting for

her even after trump was fucking

defeated

what was the reasoning for that explain

it to me probably trying to keep the

most progressive party that's uh

viable in america in power to try to

keep the fascistic uh

republicans out by the way by the way by

the way it's a fucking race to the

bottom if you keep only siding with the

most progressive

guess what dude let's say we live in a

nazi party one way

wait hold on are you an accelerationist

i'm curious are you in acceleration do

you think if like we let fascists take

power

what do you mean by acceleration do you

think that if we let the fascists take

power and p

you know i don't know i think you guys

are fear-mongering making shit up

trump isn't a fucking fascist show me

the fascists there's white supremacists

there are neo-nazis as far as i'm

concerned among trump supporters they're

a fucking minority and i know they're a

fucking minority i know trump supporters

i fucking know trump supporters dude i

live in fucking michigan

i know these fucking people personally

they're not fucking neo-nazis

they're not so where's the fucking

fascism you're talking about

specifically and you're gonna point to

me to charlottesville i know because all

these fucking

guys from uh 4chan congregated together

um together and met up together and it

was a big spectacle

big distraction but only people who

who thrive from this fascism mongering

are the fucking elites because they want

to scare this shit out of fucking

progressives

to fucking tow the fucking democrat

party line at the expense of building an

independent

people's progressive politics make

excuses for that exactly

are you unironically defending the

fucking guy

trump donald j trumperson who argued

that

biden was a communist and has been

eliciting anti-communist uh

rhetoric through his fan base for the

last fucking game and objectively

he's a clown in the world and the people

are laughing at him in the world and he

corresponds to the decline of

american hegemony you think the people

of the world give a shit about trump

the people of the world give a shit

maybe more a little about biden because

now biden wants to go to war with russia

he wants to spill more blood and trump

was doing the best as he could to stay

out of that

war with russia since you're such a

pragmatic utilitarian or whatever

you tell me trump was it trump had

bolton all these fucking hawks he had to

appease

because of the republican establishment

he was in bed with him he had to be

okay trump himself didn't really want to

get into these interventions

so since you're such a pragmatic

utilitarian who would have led to the

spilling of less blood

for the people that maybe are a little

bit uh too subhuman for you you're a

you're an esteemed bread tube uh true

socialist and all the other

authoritarian com they're all those type

of people it's oriental despots they

don't fucking matter you're pragmatic

uh whatever the fuck you said so you

explained to me why it's better for a

warmongering hawk

to be in power maybe he'll make maybe

biden will make you feel better dude

he'll give you a little shout out i love

biden i love he's gonna shout me out on

on cnn biden's gonna go on cnn he's

gonna shout me out it's gonna be awesome

oh i'm actually curious define socialism

for me

can you can you define socialism and

communism for me just like independently

like to find socialism then define

communism do it for me okay

it depends on the fucking context there

is no pre-emptive

written in stone tablet me you have to

look at the meaning of socialism

based on how it has been used

historically and how it was used in the

19th century was

after industrial modernity the peasants

who were used to having a specific

fixed social bonds in the countryside

were

kicked off their fucking land thrown on

the street in these cities and there was

a substantial loss

of a sense of common sociality so the

word socialism intervened

uh to describe this need to return to

some kind of common social reality

just like on now the factory workers

their jobs are shipped overseas

and now there's also this similar type

of lawsuit oh shit you're a

protectionist

nice uh on no i didn't say anything

about that i guess you literally argued

against

the idea of the ships

how my protection is explain i gotta go

pee hold on can you ransom my stream for

a minute

yeah dude all you zanderthal viewers

guys i swear to god i swear to god i

swear to god

i'll win you over i know i'm gonna win a

lot of you people over i'm gonna win a

lot of these

bread two people over these bread two

people are fucking history dude

infrared is the future marxism leninism

in the age of multi-polarity

and the post-covert world i can't even

see what you fucking guys are saying

you know what i'm saying my chat is more

powerful than you guys chad you're gonna

see

my chat is more high energy more

powerful than you

you know what i'm saying and it is what

it is it is what it is you know what i'm

saying

bread tube is done dude you guys can't

face me no one

on bread tube can beat me in a debate no

one and i didn't prepare for this

it's off the top of my fucking head all

your idols are gonna come down

we at infrared we're like the fucking

league of shadows coming into gotham

city

and you all think you don't know who the

fuck we are you don't know where we came

from

you don't know where we fucking came

from dude we're taking over this shit

infrared's rising infrared's rising

we're growing at such a rapid pace

and this fucking stream right here gonna

propel us into the fucking stratosphere

you know what i'm saying and that's how

it is high energy capital c

communism will dominate bread food

dominate bread tube

where about that high energy capital

city communism

i'm a libertarian socialist now we're

capital c

communists we're 100 stalinist 100

percent miles

we 100 learn from the experience of the

real communists

not the bread tube phonies you hop on

board rising time live saul

that piss i just took was in your honor

i want you to know that okay

that that glorious urination all you

could do dude

is sit there and laugh at me and mock me

and be smug and shit

dude that's so 2019 and that's so 2010s

dude

the age of smug irony is over dude now

we're gonna have

real confrontations i don't know if

you're trolling or not

i'm actually like i i can't tell if

you're trying to listen

listen listen listen listen listen

listen listen you don't know if i'm

trolling or not dude you know if i'm

trolling or not

dude your mind your mind is stuck in the

2010s infrared is thinking in the 2020s

that's your fucking problem dude i know

i'm very i i still

to be honest though you're actually kind

of right you know i'm actually like such

a fucking boomer you have you ever

played the game minecraft

you're a boomer how old are you i'm 21

years old

okay you're a baby no i'm a boomer okay

because when i imagine minecraft

i still think of it as how it was back

in 2012

i'm stuck in the 2010s dude you're

completely right

when i imagine i'm still stuck in that

one point two point five

example okay for example still stuck in

the 2010s they're completely correct

for example breadtube's aesthetics are

what vaporwave bullshit dude that's so

2010s

see how unique our style is see how

unique our styles 2020's era wanna

show the chat our channel on youtube i i

looked at your channel

i hold on let me let me bring it up

actually on youtube

infrared yeah infrared

is there anything else i should add on

to that because i don't think you're

gonna come up if i search infrared look

up the unknown cultural revolution

unknown culture look i even type like a

boomer dude look i'm i'm not a baby i'm

a boomer

i'm a baby boomer

so you've got like a crudely made

thumbnail of uh

me am i in there no i'm not no you're

not in your channel i don't even know

who you were before tonight

i think it's j wait why why were you

there like the second i went live though

i was just doing a drunk media share

streaming or

the second i went live my chat told me

about you and tells me about bread tube

and it's telling me a lot of things

what's this weak ass shit lord rhett

brick remember the name infrared's

growing

look how beautiful my channel is how

beautiful it is

look how beautiful it is our aesthetic

and you can you're going to think you're

going to compare us to bread tube dude

look at us look at our style unbeatable

style unmatchable vision

unmatched i i do i i guess that like uh

images you just pulled off of uh of like

fucking google images are

pretty 20 20. you got me there it's the

consistency

it's the yeah you we pulled them off

from the internet but guess what

it's what ones you're gonna pull off

it's the consistency let me tell you

something this is just an example it's

just our aesthetic style

in every regard bread tube is outdated

marxism leninism is the future

socialism with chinese characteristics

is the model of the future

and has surpassed anglo-saxon liberal

capitalism liberal bread tube

libertarian socialism

is the fucking past wait is liberalism

and military

listen caleb maupin's a nice

uh normal guy and he doesn't degrade

himself like how i'm doing but i'm a

fucking crazy guy dude and

you're not going to treat me i respect

it i respect the craziness i'm actually

having a really good time i'm going to

fucking follow you on twitch and watch

your streams you guys are struggling

this is entertaining as

fuck it was incredible and he was so

respectful

wait are you actually hold on hold on

wait hold on dm me right now are you

actually trolling just dm me okay don't

just damn

insecure i'm not no yeah the answer okay

listen i know it's like you have to

because like people are watching right

now you can't make it public

i just don't take myself that fucking

seriously that's the thing i just don't

take myself that seriously i'm having

some fun

i'm entertaining for the chat for my

chat you know what i'm saying i'm high

energy and i don't take myself that

fucking seriously

i just don't okay but i'm not a smug

irony guy

and that's not how i like you irony

people you act like you're so laid back

and shit

but all you do is make fun of other

fucking people i'm somebody who can make

fun of themselves and i don't give a

fuck dude

i'm willing to put myself out here and

be a fucking human being or whatever

wait didn't i take my throat back

seriously i just don't

want lonnie can you refill my drink i

actually need more alcohol for this i'm

having a good time

okay this needs to keep on going i never

want to end this this is so fucking fun

give me more alcohol i'm actually really

curious you just said you have no idea

who i am you just heard about me tonight

but you keep calling me a smug irony guy

how do you know that

i know about it i know because how

you're interacting now

how you're interacting now is is giving

me this impression

you don't speak to me in a plain spoken

way and uh you want to entertain your

chat

i want to entertain your chat i'ma steal

a lot of your viewers

if not tonight then eventually and a lot

of bret tube

this is what's gonna happen bro i'm more

entertaining people will like me more

trust me people like me more

i see you have 535 subs or something

like that we just started out

how long you been in the game how long

you been in the game i've been in the

game for like a year

okay we just started going hard pushing

our shit

a few months ago before this it was kind

of a laid back little kind of thing

we started pushing our shit and actually

going hard a few months ago

do you think we're rising fast dude this

is like my third twitch stream

we're rising fast do you think that the

um

i'm actually really curious do you think

that like the authoritarian leftist

stuff is

very popular like as far as leftists

what's your psychology

this is your artificial political

species

this is your artificial political

spectrum i'm saying the future is big

capital c

communism and yes looking towards

socialism or chinese characteristics to

learn from

for america is the future this lib ship

libertarianism

weak soyboy leftism is the past

okay people don't appreciate weakness

and all i see in the left is weakness i

just see celibacy i agree

i agree i think you guys are the

weakness why do you cook yourself

for biden and for nancy pelosi and you

sit on jimmy dore

because i think jimmy dore is a dumb

fuck grifter and i think that uh having

a fascist in power who is

outspokenly anti-communist is probably

not the best for socialism

listen you're focusing on surface and

you're focusing on labels

okay trump is talking about communism

because

he knows how to manipulate his fucking

uh

because it's a scary word in america

it's 4d chest it's

it's 4d chess you're completely correct

yeah but guess what

but look what biden's doing biden is

allying himself with the new wave of

rabid anti-communism in eastern europe

and the ukraine

against russia so who's more dangerous i

think biden's more dangerous in the

grand scheme of things for communism's

image if that's what you're getting at

biden's way worse dude is because

outside of america where the legacy of

communism

matters way more biden is doing way more

harm

i see i don't think the optics of the

word communism

should define your political positions i

find that really bizarre and strange

interesting so do you do you prefer

trump to biden

honest to god i would never vote for the

guy but i'm just going to be an honest

guy with you

honestly i would i i it was nicer to

have trump as president than biting

right now but i don't really care at the

end of the day it's not like i'm

shedding tears over it but honest to god

i was never soiling my pants

and fear-mongering about fascism about

trump like how

and he's the most dangerous person

listen it's the biggest con of the

fucking century

what the democrats did to the

progressive wing conning them into

cucking them into

fear-mongering over fucking trump and

where his what has it gotten them to huh

where is it got them to listen it looks

like this is all abstractions it's all

fascism and stuff

but people on the fucking ground are

still suffering look what's fucking

going on in texas

what did that fear mongering over

fascism actually fucking do

biden didn't stop trump's fucking

programs with immigrants

and those kids still are in fucking

cages all that shit is still there

what is where is the fascism decisively

and practically where is the fascism

under trump which thing's undefined

do you i'm actually really curious who's

running uh texas right now

and and who was running texas when uh

the uh

uh the power grid was uh sorted out the

way that it was to be completely

i'm telling you i'm telling you no no

i'm asking you right now who was in

charge

of texas it's republicans but you wanna

know are you really gonna tell me if uh

beto was in power it'd be different

it wouldn't fucking be different dude

stop deluding yourself do the same thing

party they're true wings of the same

fucking party dude

stop deluding yourself two wings of the

same fucking party

i like how you uh you admitted they were

republicans but you had to move on real

quick from that one

no i didn't dude because you really

expect it would be different under

democrats it wouldn't and biden's

president by the way

biden's actually fucking president i'm

really curious

can you name anything that that uh biden

has done uh and any executive orders

these signed since he became president

can you even sing one

not off the top of my head no i didn't

prepare for this debate so i can't

you don't know you all you care about is

the optics of these entire

of these comp of these ideologies you

don't know a single thing

yeah one of the first things that biden

did one of the first things biden did as

soon as he

got into office was roll back tons of

the shit that trump did in regards to

lgbt rights here in america

the first one was the transgender

military ban that was the first one

he did oh wow oh really

do you think wait do you think trump i'm

curious i'm curious

i'm curious do you think trans people

should be banned from having a certain

job because they're trans i'm really

curious

listen what's your opinion on truth as a

communist

as a communist it's not i hate the

military too motherfucker

i hate imperialism and i hate them i

hate it too

i'm asking you right now what are your

thoughts about reality

what are your thoughts on trans people

how do you feel about trans people being

banned by the president from

participating in a particular job based

on the fact that they're trans how do

you feel about it

don't give a fuck who's banned from the

military the military spills blood

overseas do you think that every ass

do you think that every part of the

military it's like am i sad

am i sad that trump won what jobs

what jobs does the military entail what

jobs is the us military impale uh what

what jobs does the us military entail

do you're engaging in abstractions

engagement is an abstraction i'm asking

you a question

what jobs does the military entail

okay okay listen some jobs in the

military aren't directly shooting people

but it's a fucking machine dude that's

why it's

exactly however military in history

do not have the power to obs to get rid

of the military we do not have that

power in the country right okay

but i do not believe i do not believe

that there is any utility gained

from you don't have the power

cultivating a culture

trans people are not allowed

oh what job should they have what the

fuck

[Laughter]

[Music]

won't have to kill for them for free

even it's not your military

sorry could you repeat that you lost the

debate

you lost you lost

this is my competition you lost dude you

fucking lost

you fucking lost i know i lost can you

do a victory lap i'm eating 10 days i

want to hear more can you do a victory

lap please you lost

objectively you lost yes can you do a

victory lap do a vic

keep talking do a victory lap i have

like one two three four five five more

10 days to eat can you do a victory lap

i'm gonna do a victory lap when we

surpass you in followers subs and views

that's what i'm gonna do

i'm looking forward to it okay can you

can you keep going

no you just lost this debate you lost

the debate

you said do you think that trans people

should be buried for having certain jobs

a completely abstract

completely irrelevant point to the you

your

signing example of biden's executive

order was some completely meaningless

non-substantive bullshit

that had nothing to fucking do with

anything it completely went against your

point

take the ld do you think the most people

do you think trans people or

any like minority group should be um

barred from participating in a

particular job

what do you think about that's right

abstraction or do you just think

actually

you know it's completely related to what

i'm talking about you're really really

mad i understand

very much

made it so that trans people would serve

in the military again no i don't

think if you fucking read two people you

take an abstract point well abstractly

this is my position

so if that means on behalf of my

abstract commissioner it's a fuck

mentality you're not in fucking power it

doesn't actually fucking matter what

biden does

and you're not empowered to fucking

begin with you're more of a position not

what you should and shouldn't be

even being realized at the level of

power you have no connection to

in the fucking first place

do you think a particular group should

be barred from having a certain job in

our society

like a broken record and fail to address

my actual point

i'm just going to repeat my point two

can play at this fucking game repeat it

go ahead

ask me do you think trans people should

be borrowed from having a particular job

had nothing to fucking do with the

actual point at hand i just

fucking addressed that point you're

coming at it from the wrong fucking

perspective

it's a stupid thing to say what you're

saying i literally asked if you could

name it

executive order that biden issued in his

first um

like few weeks of office and

i gave up an example and you said that

you don't care i'm asking you right

i think you think society is what i said

let's roll it back roll it back

you know what went through people you

know what actually fucking happened

and you said the reason that we had to

stop i said where's the stopping

fashions and won't change they said well

biden issued some executive orders i

said

what executive orders have substantially

changed everything

so profoundly that if we defeated the

menace of fascism and you said biden

lifted a transgender military ban

there's two stupid fucking things about

that first of all you're an apologist

for american imperialism

and the blood being spilled for millions

and millions of for hundreds and

thousands of fucking people in the

middle east

that's the first stupid fucking point

that i already went through but even the

second stupid point is

maybe it's bad that trump's fucking

transphobic but to say that this is

evidence that he's a fascist is a

fucking stretch

if you're exterminating people for their

sexual orientation

the gravity of the threat is the fucking

problem so we have to sacrifice people's

power and our real progressive movements

just because trump banned transgender

people from joining the fucking military

is that the altar upon which we have to

sacrifice cultivating an actual

independent people's power

and independent progressive politics

from the fucking democrats

that's the altar of sacrifice the

transgender burial military ban name

something else dude because everyone

always talked about the kids in cages

and everyone always talks about trump's

scary and horrible fashion some you're

just getting little tidbits that aren't

substantive what so fucking ever

none of what you mentioned is

justifiable for sacrificing the fucking

progressive movement in independent

politics

what so fucking ever um

i've got a lot of questions i want to

ask you i think the most impressive

i think the most impressive i think

the point lost you lost the fucking

debate the buzzer sounded you lost

you were rating the point you want to

ask more questions go ahead please ask

more

i think the most relevant to what you

just said at the end of your uh little

rant there

is probably i want to ask you how do you

think that socialists can take power in

america

do you think that uh how do we overthrow

the democratic party and uh put in place

a more progressive party than the

democrats i'm very curious

the first thing you do the first thing

you do

is you you you tap into the populistic

anti-establishment momentum that trump

was co-opting

you do it wrong you name the enemies of

the people you separate yourselves from

the establishment and when you

distinguish

yourself from the fucking establishment

when inevitably the american people

are discontented with their

establishment you're going to give

expression to their anger

you're going to represent that anger

you're going to represent their will

and their feeling and the and the

objective contradiction between them and

the establishment

and that's how you fucking win people

trump won people by doing that

leftists and socialists and all these

fucking people calling themselves

whatever the fuck

they need to do the same goddamn fucking

thing the first thing you need to do

the most primordial simple fucking thing

you have to do is don't

sound and talk like the fucking

establishment that's the easiest one

just stop sounding like them dude all

you read to people

all you fucking leftists and

progressives when i hear you fucking

talk

you sound like a same mainstream msm

type of fucking establishment bullshit

that i always fucking hear every day

in a common sense intuitive way you know

what it sounds like when you guys talk

doesn't matter how much you qualify your

position with axiomatic and all this

stupid bullshit

at the end of the fucking day you sound

like the people in fucking power

you sound like the people in power you

sound like the nerds who rule over the

american people

the bill gates is the jeff bezos these

fucking cocks

who rule the american people you sound

like them you sound like mark zuckerberg

you sound like them

stop sounding like them is a fucking

good start start sounding like me

maybe and you'll get somewhere i don't

know i feel like i'd be a lot less

popular if i started sounding like you

you sound really hinges as fuck you're

entertaining don't get me wrong you're

entertaining

but you sound as unhinged as fuck

just wait just wait wait and see how

viral i become

just wait i'm i'm looking forward to it

dude i'm really

i really hope that you actually end up

making it infrared will change the game

i hope that's pretty cool i hope you go

live i

really hope that you go like full

fucking huge and you start making tons

of money

and you end up like having a really high

production value and i can just sit down

every night and watch you rant

because holy fuck has been entertaining

you've unironically tried to argue

uh in favor of the idea of borrowing a

particular minority group from

participation

you fucking liar you little chicken shit

slanderer putting

trying to fucking cancel me put words in

my fucking mouth you little snake

i see you for the fucking cuck and snake

that you fucking are trying to put words

in my fucking mouth you're trying to

paint me as transphobic

i said i don't give a fuck what they do

and who they borrow from the fucking us

military because the us military

all it fucking does is engage in

bloodshed

utilitarian you fucking understand that

go roll back the fucking clip

and see where i said oh oh yeah i

actually abstractly think trans people

should be bad of course i don't

abstractly think that trans people

should be banned from anything

but guess what if life was made of

fucking abstractions

nothing we wouldn't be speaking about

any of this in the fucking first place

wouldn't even fucking exist if life was

just full of abstractions and there was

no concrete material fucking reality

what are we fucking talking about then i

don't think in terms of abstractions

like you do i don't think in terms of

abstract positions like bread tube does

infrared is about something else about

concrete and material reality that's why

infrared's gonna rise

and we're gonna leave bread tube in the

fucking dust you think you guys are

gonna

outgrow bread too huh yes we do we're

gonna no not just

us us in the whole tanki sphere and the

whole mls

you left like you're trolling no no

tank he actually calls themselves

tankies

wait you're actually trolling you're

actually trolling no tanks out

i'm gonna explain take you think tanki

is a smoker

you're

because i do feel like tanki's better

than snowflake what are you going to

call me a lion

you're going to call me kung kong yes

i'm a fucking tanky i am a

i love that fucking turret tank you

wouldn't be tankies and not snowflakes

so i'm down with that term second of all

your bed tube this is where you're

fucked up

you defined and predicated your entire

position based on supporting biden in

the fucking general

now you've been charged and you got what

you fucking want you're going to own up

to that

i suppose or not whether you distance

yourself from that or not you're owning

up to the fact that by the wand that's

on your fucking shoulder so a new left

is going to be born now

of people including many ex-trump

supporters who are discontented with the

establishment wouldn't think it's going

to thrive from that huh

knowing the demographic name of specific

splinter of the left who do you think is

most primed

to inherit the true and authentic

anti-establishment momentum

that propelled bernie the power and

significance in the first place

that you guys were dick riding off of

it's going to be ml's dude it's going to

be mls

it's going to be tankies and yes we're

not perfect we're not all perfect but we

are the fucking future

china is the future and america is the

past you want to know

what china marxist leninist i agree a

lot of admirals

good and sophisticated as the chinese

but you know what that's the future so

what yes

yes there's a lot of rich trump

supporters and a lot of wealthy trump

supporters what's your fucking point are

you trying to make a point

no i just i find it really funny when

people try to claim that trump's

selection came from some kind of

economic anxiety

it was it was where you live what

country which state do you live in

i lived in florida now i live in

california i lived in california okay

that's why

that's why mr california i live in

fucking michigan it does fucking come

from

the economic it does fucking come from

ordinary working-class people i know

that firsthand

anyone who tries to fucking deny that is

lying mister what do you think

i'm really curious why are you calling

me mr california i've lived here for

seven

months during a pandemic when i can't go

i'm from florida in california

and you really think you you know who

trump supporters are doing wait fucking

do you wait aren't you one of those wait

are when you one of those people think

that california is like uh southern new

york

or sorry florida no florida

i miss smoke do you think florida is

southern new york do you want to

ironically think that

have you have you been to florida have

you been to florida

two miles outside of a major city have

you been to have you been to florida and

drove two miles outside of a major city

okay which part of florida are you from

i am from the uh middle uh western part

of florida

literally out in the middle of nowhere

that's fine that's fine but let me tell

you something

in the i don't know how it is there but

i'll tell you what if you're from

trump signs in every corner is how it is

there i'll tell you

okay okay okay and it was a wealthy

place

no okay no

my point that i'm trying to make is that

most people you don't reporters you

don't think there's

you don't think that those people are

very numerous

that what people who are like that who

are like what

who are like the people you are

describing who are rich

who are ordinary working-class people

absolutely yeah

so you're not denying that no of course

not i think there's plenty of

working-class people that are

speaking about them i'm speaking about

them yeah i think anti-communist

sentiment has affected a lot of

working-class people in terms of

ideology i'm not speaking in terms of

ideology

what do you think is the number one

enemy of communism

what is communism you're speaking in

abstractions i'm talking what do you

think

is one of the biggest historical and

current enemies

of communism other leftists i

like to think that the most that the

strongest and most dangerous enemy of

communism

is fascism just like hitler try to take

out the communists

in a genocide against communists

you don't think that you don't think

that fascism is an enemy of communism is

a threat to communism

i think that

fascism has always been the enemy of

communism i think communism is

glowing beautiful enemy of fascism which

is a danger to the people

let me talk because speaking in terms of

abstract ideology

historically speaking after the soviet

union defeated the nazis

half of fucking europe became communist

so yeah

and then another thing is after during

the cold war fascists

were just mercenaries and fucking gangs

who were hired thugs of american cia

imperialism

they were never ever ever a major threat

in the very

belly of the beast like how you guys are

trying to fucking say the true enemy was

always liberalism

it was always anglo-saxon liberalism has

always been the true enemy of communism

who funded hitler huh the british elites

funded fucking hitler who supported

hitler

the anglo-saxon and british elites

they've always been the fucking enemy of

communism they meet behind the germans

they use the germans to attack the

soviet union that's how that

played out wait is it like hydra like

hydra was using the nazis in order to

achieve their own ends

no it's a well established fact that

international

anglo-saxon financiers and

industrialists funded the nazis you deny

that

industrialists and finances sure

yeah there was class collaboration among

in nazi germany of course

well wasn't no no i'm not talking about

the chinese bourgeoisie

i'm not talking about a bourgeoisie not

talking about that either

i'm talking about nazi germany class

collaboration

and american elites supported nazism do

you know that you know about the

businesses plot

that tried to overthrow fdr do you know

about smedley butler who exposed it do

you know about prescott bush who is

involved in that

all real historical on the record by the

way the american ruling class

wanted to institute a real fascism in

america

but you want to know who's behind it it

wasn't populists like fucking uh

trump's people and shit it was prescott

fucking bush

someone who was deep deep into the

contemporary deep state his and his uh

grandfather or his grandson george w

bush was the fucking president

and he's an establishment guy his

fucking grandfather prescott bush

wanted to overthrow fdr in the

businessman's plots

that's where the fascism was the

establishment it's always been the

fucking

establishment the deep state and all

this fucking bullshit

where it's stretched like decades wait

what do you think the establishment was

a hundred years ago

it was what do you mean is it clarified

what are you asking

and here in america what do you think

the establishment

was a hundred years ago 50 years ago

even 50 years we'll bring it even more

recent

uh 50 years ago what do you think the

establishment was here in america 50

years ago

what do you mean you say it's always

been the establishment what do you think

yeah the american establishment was 50

years ago

what was it what ideology do you think

the

american establishment was 50 years ago

so it's the ideology you're asking for

of course

okay it was anglo-saxon liberalism just

like it is now

what is anglo-saxon liberalism what's

that what's the difference between

anglo-saxon liberalism and uh

i don't know fucking asian liberalism i

don't know

just the fact that it actually has its

historical roots and origins

in uh in england do you not know that or

no

no i'm very aware with the uh the state

of liberalism and

since i don't think in terms of abstract

ideological uh

uh ghosts and abstractions we're talking

about real historical continuities and a

real development of history

and a real ruling class in a real uh

elites we're not talking about

ideological abstractions yes

british liberalism represented the

english

ruling class and the british elites yes

it did

and that transferred and that uh

transferred on to the americans

uh america was a an heir to england in

some sense

then there was uh tension between the

american government

which was more protectionist in insofar

as it was authentically and truly

american

and the british were supporting the

slaveocrats the south uh against

protectionists like lincoln

uh because the british were in favor of

the free market liberal system

and uh the americans were uh were more

protectionists

going off on a fucking tangent but these

ways i'm really curious

i think wait the slaver crats that's

actually a really good meme han

do you think that uh tell me about the

slavercrats

they were supported by england you don't

know that of course i know they were

supported by well they were almost

supported by england they actually

weren't

supported by england no it wasn't known

nope you are completely wrong i've done

a lot of research on the civil war

there was actually very close england

relied on a lot of exports from the

south due to their

agriculture exports of cotton and

whatnot but when lincoln announced that

the uh war was in favor of ending

slavery

europe and especially the uk they didn't

back the fuck out of the officials

they're like

no we're not supporting the south and

that we're nope we're not fighting we're

not they didn't do it

they didn't do it officially dude they

dropped the fuck out officially

because that would amount to a

declaration of war against the north so

they never crossed it and went that far

but the british ruling class and the

british press

were overwhelmingly pro-south marx

himself wrote i think in the new york

tribune

about how the british press was

lamenting the fucking

the ladies of new orleans were being

degraded

and uh who were being humiliated by the

union soldiers

the aristocratic women of new orleans

who were slave owners

the british press was lamenting it that

was marx himself was writing about that

marx and engels both

so you know what i mean when i say who

else

who else did marx write to

are you implying oh yeah he probably

wrote for some uh english newspaper

which

no no i'm really curious is there a

particular figure in america that marx

might have

written to abraham lincoln well he

didn't actually do it personally

mark signed a letter to abraham lincoln

on behalf of the international

working men's association i'm not quite

sure that he actually wrote it himself

did he i'm actually really curious about

that here tell me about it

about it the international working men's

association

wrote a letter to abraham lincoln

expressing their support for him

against the war against the south

interesting because right here i have a

letter from uh marx to labor abraham

lincoln

sir we can congratulate the american

people upon your re-election

by a large category this was shortly

after uh lincoln's re-election

this is actually uh right here look um

it's right on marxist.org my guy it is

right here on

marxist.org written by marx 1864.

okay that was a different thing i was

thinking of the fucking international

working men's association letter

which was a fucking letter that he wrote

no it's okay

it's a cia propaganda no it's okay this

is why you're propaganda

international i don't know my chat told

me the source is actually cia propaganda

i got it it's okay

it's all good no okay okay okay fine

that was your gotcha your one got you

this whole thing and i fucking did

beat you in every other thing it was

just a stupid trivial point that you got

me fucking matter

doesn't even fucking matter what's so

decisive about this point of views

you're making

yeah i got it wrong i thought the

international working men's association

drafted it as an organization and marx

just signed it i didn't actually know

marx personally wrote it uh but nice

gotcha dude

so you you got me dude you really got me

what a great point you just fucking made

what's your point what is that supposed

to reveal and express

you're fucking crazy but very

interesting i'm fucking crazy why am i

crazy dude

i said i think i never even said i was

certain about it i said i'm pretty sure

it was the i don't fucking know i didn't

know fucking for certain why does it

matter though

what was what what was your point dude

what point were you trying to fucking

demonstrate

what kind of gotcha is that you're so

fucking weak dude on every substantive

point

i've defeated and demolished you and you

brought up some trivial

fucking meaningless thing to test my

knowledge dude

you you had that ready at hand at some

factoid

it's in the back of my fucking mind dude

that's not the first fucking

factoid that's on my fucking mind is

who's going to be real

i literally just googled marx and uh

uh abraham lincoln that was the first

thing that came up dude no but

you were trying to get me with a god she

said oh who did marx write to huh and

you had this specific factoid in mind

thinking this was some gotcha even

though it was such a trivial and stupid

and meaningless point

i mean you try to make the argument that

like

there was this like insane amount of

support for the south

there was among the english ruling class

yes there fucking was dude yeah and then

they revoked their support the second

that abraham they revoked their official

support when the going got tough

yeah no not when the going got tupped

tough when that

cringy ass liberalism came along and

they said the war was to end slavery

and the british ruling class was like

anything to do with that oh

fucking shit bull fucking shit bull

fucking shit the fuck they demonized

lincoln as like the czar

they compared lincoln to an

authoritarian czar who was harming the

free trade international liberal system

with this protectionism yes they did

fucking compare lincoln

to a tyrant and a caesar you're a

fucking liar dude you don't know what

the fuck you're talking about

holy shit i don't even i don't really

like i don't really go into history that

much but i

somehow know more than you do they put

back support

cracking down on the liberal free trade

system i'm really curious

wait i'm really curious can you tell me

about the uh

capitalist jewish space lasers while i

go pee when did i mention jews

you mentioned the uh the elites in the

deep state so i'm curious

why did jews have to take the blame for

the anglo-saxon

that's fine you're not willing to bite

down on the jew pill that's fine okay i

i know you're like

you're like a nonsense can you just tell

me about the elite

i'm not hiding anything i plainly see no

explain by

the non-jewish elite space lasers just

explain to my audience

why are why are you associating jews

with elites i didn't do that

why are jews at least the majority of

jews were not fucking elites

okay okay that's fine you know what

that's fine

the reptilians

maybe you don't believe in like the

jewish conspiracy theory talk the

reptilian democracy

i believe why would you assume i believe

it

i don't know maybe you know what it's

completely unreasonable for me to

believe that maybe i shouldn't have

thought that at all

you shouldn't have apologize i'm very

sorry you have a beautiful i have

beautiful facial hair

all right talk to can you keep ranting

in my chat while i uh go pee

go pee okay lord redbeck i hope you get

on vasha's stream god help him if i go

on his stream

i'm gonna your idol is gonna be

demolished i'm gonna keep demolishing

these idols

and is what it is is what it is

is what it is you really think your

little your bread tube idols can defeat

me dude you don't know who the fuck i am

just because you've never heard of me

you haven't heard of me but you will

hear of me you will be hearing more of

me because we're taking over the game

just like bane when he entered gotham

city with the league of shadows that's

the type of shit we're on

i don't even know what xander hall's

chad is saying y'all are probably

talking so much shit

it's okay guys you'll get used to me

you'll get used to me trust me

you don't like me now it's okay it's

okay

you'll like me you'll like me soon

i don't even know what the fuck he's

saying you'll like me soon

please debate i will debate boss i i'm

reading his chat

ha ha ha he thinks he's bane yeah dude

i'm taking myself so seriously right now

and i actually

unironically think i'm vain how about

i'm having a little fun why don't you

chill the fuck out stop taking yourself

so fucking seriously dude we're on the

fucking

internet we're on youtube shut the fuck

up dude

please debate jesse i don't care i'll

debate destiny i'll debate fucking

anyone dude i'll fucking debate anyone

what's your channel bro

infrared on youtube

yeah make sure to sub to uh make sure

it's up to him he's gonna eat it okay

dude we're gonna grow fast we're gonna

go

fast we're gonna grow fast you

understand

i'm really curious like i actually have

like this is a genuine question

this isn't a gotcha this isn't like a

gotcha

or like a uh like a meme point or

anything like that i'm actually

genuinely curious

how popular do you think like tanky

ideology is uh in america around the

world in the west generally speaking

it's it ha in america i'm not gonna

speak for the west that's a different

story

germany has dilinky and france probably

got some shit going on with melanchon

and shit

so i'm not going to speak for

continental europe but yes in the united

kingdom

and america tankies are non-existent i

know but infrared is seeing into the

future

we're filling a niche we believe we're

going to be the future

we're not yet right do you want to do

you want to drop like a link to your

channel on my website chat because

people are asking for uh i don't have an

account on your website oh it's it's

just sanderhall.com you just literally

click a button that says login with

google and it like you'll make an

account right away and you can just

i want to give you my google account so

i don't trust you like that

okay i understand okay but like i'm

can i i'm very drunk right now but can i

get like very um

like leaving like the meme like argument

stuff behind can i get like very genuine

with you for a second yes please please

i've been waiting for that so

i love socialism i don't know if you if

you and i agree on definitions of

socialism or communism

i i one of the biggest issues that i see

right now

in our political system is we have this

big problem

right where it feels like a lot of

social like democrat politicians do it

too of course i'm not like a fucking

democrat

shill right but a lot of um particularly

republican politicians are continuing to

perpetuate this

almost mccarthyist fear of communism

and i see that as a massive threat i

think we need to oust the fucking

republicans for being even closer

to um uh politically relevant and i

think that's we're actually in the

process of this right now if i don't

know if you've noticed but we've seen

that um

the republican party is tearing itself

apart right now between like the

fucking insane trump supporting part of

the republican party

and the arguably less insane

like establishment dumb fuck part of the

party and they're ripping themselves

apart they're splitting their voter base

and i think that is fantastic for us

as like leftists because then we can get

to the point where you can start

radicalizing

um liberals and like people who may be

sympathetic to our cause

to potentially voting for someone like

bernie sanders potentially voting out

some like nancy pelosi in favor of

someone who's more progressive

but the problem is right now that we're

dealing with this

unbelievably conservative anti-communist

like literally believing joe biden as a

communist

um uh contingent of americans and i see

these people as being a huge threat to

us being able to move the americans more

left

and being more willing to unite and vote

for somebody like bernie sanders

okay or someone more progressive okay

well since you're being genuine i'll be

genuine too

we can stop the entertainment and the

charading

and i'll i'll respond to that most

reasonable way i can

in my view the perspective you're coming

from is extremely idealistic what i mean

by that is that

you're attributing significance to the

hidden ideological meaning of phrases

and words like communism and stuff

but i actually think words like

communism take a back seat to the actual

sense and meaning given to them by the

ones calling themselves communists

when people hear the word communism yes

there's a lot of fear-mongering of

what communism means as this scary

horrible

thing but if genuine leaders

leading a new people's politics a new

progressive

independent politics separate from the

democrats like what jimmy dore is trying

to kick start

are helping the people leading the

people and giving expression

to the people's objective and material

uh

sentiments and position they actually

won't care who's calling themselves a

communist

or not they say if that's a communist

maybe i'll be a communist too

so in my view the phrase in the word

communism takes the backseat

uh to the actual meaning given to it as

expressed in concrete reality

by the ones using the phrase so i'm not

worried about mccarthyism

and all the fear-mongering about

communism because the plain truth is

that most americans

just don't know what communism means

they don't know and i'm not saying that

in the sense

of they don't know the true definition

uh that bread tube knows no no offense

i'm not trying to insult you because

we're being civilized now

i'm trying to say that they don't

actually know what communism meant

even in the soviet union and china and

the communist states in those countries

that phrase meant something so radically

different in relation to people

than it does in america so i don't want

to knock on an open door i think the

american people are

actually fundamentally open to the

meaning of communism because the meaning

of communism can't be reduced to the

word communism

it must be reproduced

by learning from the examples of the

communist states and how they were able

to acquire

the support of the majority of people in

their own country

you learn from that and you apply this

in america and americans won't care if

you call yourself a communist or

anything else they'll say

if that's what communism means by god

i'll be a communist too

and by the way i don't believe in

creating a new politics from scratch

based on ideology

we observing the objective and material

uh developments in actual reality such

as the

shifts changing among the progressive

wing of the democratic party

as epitomized by the whole spat with

people like jimmy dore

and as communists i would support and be

on the side of people like jimmy dore

who want to create a new party

and who want to move away from

continually deferring to the

establishment democrats on the basis of

fearing republicans and fascism

because that's what leftists have been

doing for so long but the only reason

why bernie

gained a minimum of relevance is because

he was willing to risk he was willing to

risk the defeat of the democrats

in the name of putting his shoe in the

door for this new progressive politics

when he challenged hillary clinton in

2016. now one could have easily made the

argument

that bernie sanders is going to scare

away potential voters with scary words

like socialism

but because bernie had the courage to

risk

risk the loss of the democratic party

that proved he actually believed in

something deeper than the established

political forces that actually exist

and that's why bernie even got anywhere

anywhere to begin with and that's why

bread tube even exists in the first

place

which was uh taking the um which is an

aftermath the result of bernie sanders

thing that he opened up in 2016. in my

honest view

uh you don't begin from ideology and

what's the quickest way to make

communism palatable with people if you

support the establish because the source

of people's problem

isn't that they have a problem with the

ideas of communism

people associating are associating the

democrats

the republican constituency if it still

has one we don't even know this is all

up in the air now

but in so far as the republicans

constituency has the constituency you're

aware of and i'm aware of because you're

from that place in florida and i live in

michigan so we know who we're talking

about

insofar as the republicans have this

constituency

right um it's because that constituency

views the democrats as part of a corrupt

coastal elite and establishments

what communists need to do is give

expression to their material

interests and then everything will

follow from there

the meaning of communism must be

redefined

not scholastically not by changing how

we

uh not by changing the textbook

definition and arguing about that

the meaning of communism must be

redefined by giving new meaning to it

by concrete example and actual reality

we must act

speak and even think in a popular minded

way

so as to lead by example

and allow communism to reacquire uh

relevance

uh relevance um by

what they call in maoism serving the

people

i completely i can completely respect

that now that we're in like uh

genuine mode i can completely see where

you're coming from

my main issue is and i i think you can

agree with me on this

i think the republican the democratic

party has played a part in this too of

course like a significant part but i

feel like it's

for the most part the republican party

has played a huge part

in stigmatizing communism with people

anything that he

is even close or reminiscent of

communism

like have you i'm really curious have

you seen how often

people and like the trump area have

accused

biden of being a communist have you seen

that

yes i'm familiar with the extent of the

republican

um anti-communist fear-mongering and

rhetoric although i'm not so

sure it's directed against communism as

much as it's directed against the

democrats

now the reason republicans get away with

doing this is because they're basically

saying

that democrats while pretending to be

normal moderate liberals are secretly

communism

communists and communism is an unknown

americans aren't familiar with what

communism is so if you're accusing the

democrats of being this

unknown that people's imagination runs

wild right

so to me i'm actually not afraid of the

extent of anti-communist rhetoric by

republicans

because i know the only reason they get

away with it is because no one's

actually giving concrete expression and

meaning

to the word communism if people

succeeded in doing that

um you know there wouldn't people would

see plain as day that the republicans

are wrong the communists

are not the ones behind joe biden the

communists are precisely the ones

against joe biden

the communists are the ones who want to

help the people and serve the people

and um and create in the words of caleb

maupin

a government of action for

uh the american people addressing things

like the coronavirus as they've done in

china

addressing crisis is like what's going

on in texas

mobilizing resources and people uh

for the benefit of of all i think if

people

saw what communists actually mean and

practice an actual concrete reality

what republicans are saying wouldn't

actually matter the problem is that

communists

as far as i see them and i don't want to

insult you now that we're being

civilized

i don't want to insult you but as far as

i can see as far as the people calling

themselves communists

um and bread tube types and that type of

thing they

they define themselves extremely into

abstractly and scholastically promising

a

new society where there's no money and

they're just

defining it negatively basically and um

it's also a kind of hipster thing like

oh i'm a communist but your intuitive

understanding of communism is wrong

why don't you read my definition where

we're coming from

at infrared and i hope i can speak for

our collective

we're coming from a perspective where

we're saying no we want to change what

people's intuitive sense of communism is

we don't want to say to people you're

into intuition of communism is wrong let

me give you the real

a university educated definition i want

to say

let's speak to people's intuitive

sense and work with that and change that

intuitive sense

that way we won't have to actually care

about the true definition of communism

because as marx

made it as clear as day communism is not

some ideal society we strive for

communism is the real objective and

material movement that's what communism

means

communism is serve the people communism

is

uh a force in reality that merely

represents

uh the super the sublation of the

present state of things

the establishment all that kind of stuff

so

that's pretty much where i'm coming from

with that yeah i just

i feel like um my main goal and i feel

like this is

regardless of whether or not they

realize that we've seen like a lot of

people talk about how

their political journey has led them

from being like maybe a bit more

conservative or even alt-right

more towards communism and they come

through these like

more liberal bread tuber types and i

feel like it's even if you disagree with

these like bread tuber people and i i

want to

i want to be very genuine here i'm not

trying to go for gotchas or anything

but even if you disagree with the

rhetoric or the beliefs of these bred

two people

i feel like if you look at most people's

political stories online

you'll find that like 99 of the time

they went through like a

liberal youtuber like destiny and then

found themselves getting into like

communism and i feel like it's one of

the biggest things we need to do is to

one pull people away from being like

i know you disagree with characterizing

them as fascists but away from like

more of a populist fascistic kind of

idea like immigrants are the reason why

um our current material conditions are

as bad as they are

pulling those people away from that and

more towards realizing

it is the bourgeoisie that is keeping

the working class down that is causing

us to be where we are it's not

immigrants and brown people coming over

from the fucking border

i feel like that even if it's discussing

non-economic issues

such as like immigration trans rights

lgbt um

blm stuff like that i feel like these

have their valuable

characteristics and moving people over

and our main goal right now needs to be

trying to reach

these amer anybody really but most

people that are involved in politics in

the politics here right now are mostly

american you know especially after trump

a lot of people got into

into politics especially left-leaning

politics because of trump

i feel like we need to pull these people

more towards the left i don't know if my

rhetoric is kind of off right now

because i'm very drunk but i feel like

we have to pull these people away from

this like anti like this

weird belief that they have that like

their problems aren't caused by

the capitalist ruling class but instead

by like immigrants taking their journeys

yeah yeah

yeah you know um we we disagree about

the fastest thing but i

100 in good faith you know what you're

talking you're talking about right-wing

reactionary views

about immigrants which are vaguely

anti-establishment by the way we know

uh we you're aware of that they might

they mask themselves that way though

yeah

trump is very trump yeah trump is very

establishment

yeah from like everything i've said

he's in bed with all the republicans and

the you know all those people of course

uh i agree

but um nonetheless they uh they

think themselves subjectively to be at

the establishment

but i was trying to yeah well

my issue with um if i can try to

uh summarize your point here the idea is

that

put we must push them left uh and in

doing so they must

begin a journey of some kind right first

the right wing

then they'll pass through liberals being

liberals a little bit maybe

and then maybe we can prod them further

and further and push them further

but i have an issue with um this idea of

pushing

people further to the left in general

whether it's biden or whether it's right

wingers because

to me this only views the political

spectrum

horizontally this is the best way i

could put it

to me this is actually isn't actually

how it works in reality

it's not that because because this only

works in reality

if the essential reason why people

identify with the political views they

do

can be premised on abstract political

and ideological terms

but i think there's a more fundamental

material reason

why people um become associated with

reactionary anti-immigrant views and all

those kinds of things you're talking

about

and if you can tap into that more

essential reason distill it and give it

more clarity

you can preserve anti-establishment

sentiment

uh while successfully winning these

people over

uh to communism or socialism or

something like that

it's about distilling the essence of why

they fall into reactionary views they do

because you know my view about trump and

this kind of stuff is that

marx in the communist manifesto wrote

about all kinds of different socialism

there's reactionary socialism there's

feudal socialism there's religious

socialism

in a sense this also is a kind of

reactionary

vain socialism and the whole point is

guys

you're going to fail to take down the

establishment look at what happened with

trump

trump failed to do it he betrayed you he

was in bed with them

the more essential thing to me isn't

that these people

actually hate immigrants and hate women

and hate

gay people and transgender people it's

that they have come to encounter all of

this

as epitomizing this ugly hideous world

that they do fundamentally uh are

alienated from and are estranged from

and despise

so it's about giving clarity and

distilling this

fundamental contradiction and alienation

in a more

successful way than reaction uh

reactionary

ideologies are able to we don't have to

think in terms of like push them to we

don't

have to have them pass through stages in

other words what i'm trying to say

i understand that i have i have to go

pretty soon because i'm very drunk and i

probably need to

fucking end stream soon but i i want to

say that like

i understand where you're coming from

okay i i don't agree with like the

um characterization that you've put

forward of trump but i don't agree with

like the idea that like

bread tube is this like liberal um

establishment supporting type thing

the the thing that i'm seeing a lot of

right now is that the republican party

in reactionary ideology which

is distinct distinctively anti-communist

and anti-socialist they seem to try to

divert people's attention

just as you said i feel like that's this

is the argument you're making

away from the real problem which is the

bourgeoisie the capitalist ruling class

um diverting people's attention more

towards like minorities that are like

immigrants whatever they're taking away

people's jobs or whatever the fuck

at the end of the day i feel like a lot

of people's antagonism

against minority groups does come from

some kind of

economic alienation but that economic

alienization

does end up at the end of the day

contributing

to a more um i guess you would refer to

it as liberal um

view of minority groups in america and i

feel like a lot of

trying to deprogram these people from

this idea

is like a very important first step to

getting them on board

with realizing who's their real enemy

the owning the

you know ruling class yeah yeah i listen

um

in good faith here's how i'm going to

translate your point

basically we can be radicals and have

all kinds of strange ideologies

we want but at the end of the day it is

a kind of mainstream

i guess liberal view that for example

uh there's an acceptability of lgbt

people and racial minorities all of

these are kind of a mainstream

liberal normal position so i get what

you're trying to say

um we can't we can't just replace that

but one of the ideas we have at infrared

and which others have is that

we need to create not only a new left

but in a sense a new center a new normal

we need to um give expression to a pro

uh lgbt pro

racial minority pro-women politics

that is at the same time fundamentally

distinct to the opportunistic ways

his uh progressive politics is

supposedly given expression

by liberals and the democrats in other

words

if we can not only preserve these

mainstream very mainstream

progressive cultural positions but also

give

expression to them in such a way that

they are at the same time

anti-establishment and preserve

the fundamental contradiction that gives

rise

to reactionary views without simply

telling the reactionaries they have to

deny this initial contradiction

if this can be done a new kind of center

then the the goal must be not simply to

build something that's to the left of

the democrats

but to build a new pro people

uh anti-establishment specifically

center a new center of some kind that a

lot it will be a platform

to allow us to uh have progressive

cultural positions

but in a new and way another let me

simplify this right

in marxist mumbo jumbo you could you

basically have this idea

there's the bourgeois feminism and

there's the proletarian feminism

there's the bourgeois pro lgbt and then

there's the proletarian kind

now they both appear similar because

they're officially pro-women and

pro-sexual minorities and pro-racial

minorities

but actually they're fundamentally

different in the way that they're given

expression you know

feminists like alexandre kolenta

example and clara zetkin for example

she was founded in international women's

day actually

they are feminists yes but they are

fundamentally profoundly different type

of feminists

than the bourgeois feminists of both

their time and

our time you know so there's a

difference between uh

a pro-people anti-establishment

progressive politics and the one that

prevails

and we must make this a new normal

uh to challenge the establishment

basically

uh we must uh make a new normal baseline

beyond uh centrist liberalism we must

have a

centrist communism i completely agree

with that

but i think we have like different ways

of going about that

my main goal is we have to first destroy

the right-leaning republican party in

this country so we can make democrats be

the new

right-wing party if democrats at a new

right-wing party

we can move further from there if

democrats for the new right-wing party

and that was it like republicans gone

democrats these neo-liberal democrats to

the new right-wing party

we can start to move people more further

left because they're going to start to

realize

this neo-liberalism bullshit isn't

achieving what they think it's going to

achieve

we can start to move the overton window

more left that's one of the biggest

problems i have in america

is how right our overton window is the

same goes even for the uk and many

western countries over in europe there's

a big problem where the overton window

is so far right

it feels really hard to advocate for um

like in a serious more like pragmatic

sense like when it comes to electoralism

when we actually are voting and

affecting change in the government

itself

to move these uh uh parties more left

when there is still a comparatively

far-right party still in existence and

so viable to get elected

well i i just think that this

perspective

with all due respect is a little bit um

framing things in terms of abstract uh

ideological

type of political compass positions and

my view is that once we

focus our attention on the material

essence of this different

these political difference we'll see

that i don't actually think it's

possible to destroy

the republican party and make the

democrats the new right wing

i think if you if the republican party

is destroyed another party will come and

um

replace it uh to fill that vacuum and

maybe in a sense

the reason i'm kind of hesitant right

now is because i don't actually know if

the republican party is already

destroyed

i don't know what's going on with that

it seems like a lot of things are

realigning and changing

as we speak but the fundamental thing

for me

is that we don't even have the power

to do that if we wanted to what we do

have the power to do

is use uh our small

range of uh possible intervention into

the political sphere

to build an alternative to the democrats

and the republicans alike

to build a new center because if we make

ourselves foot soldiers for

establishment democrats

we may think abstractly this is some

grand strategy

but we are handicapping our ability

to realize the independently

mediated and conceived fruits of that

strategy

which requires an independent type of

power right if we have a strategy

that involves acting on behalf of the

democrats

in order to fulfill some further aim

uh you're spending time away from

creating the independent basis to be

able to

when all is said and done challenge the

democrats in the first place

uh when all is said and done that's the

issue

we are limited as socialists as

progressives

as communists we are limited in our

human ability

and what little we can do in my view

should be directed

not to serving the democrats but to

building an independent basis of some

kind

yeah and i and i agree with that it just

it feels really um

it feels like we've got this big problem

when it comes to

this like i like you said before you

want a

you think a new party will come to take

the place of the republicans or whatever

right-wing party there is and i want

that to be the democrats i want

to make it so that the right-wing party

in most like for example we can even

extend this across

uh all of the west right um and we're

talking more specifically about the west

here because this is the

main consumer base of most of our

content

um i want it to be so that republican

party

is a completely irrelevant you know gone

no one votes for them

whatever right the democratic party is

now considered the right-wing party now

and we've got a genuinely significantly

more left-wing party now that opposes

the democratic party as being the

previous like

standard for the republican same goes

for like the tories and whatever in

labor and all that

but um i don't know i feel like this is

one of the most like stressful things

for me because i feel like

besides like the the really like if we

get into the nitty gritty like uh

status stuff we agree on what needs to

be done

now yeah very similarly but we

we get caught up in a lot of infighting

and the right doesn't do this as much

and it's something that

that um upsets me a lot is how much the

left does this infighting on very

uh niche issues when in the short term

at least we need to be uniting

to fight against certain right now

threats to our ideology

um all i would want to say is that if

the republican party represents a

reactionary position

i think those reactionary positions even

if they're assumed under the name of the

democratic party

i don't see what difference it makes i

don't think i think in order to push a

country left

you don't appeal to labels and

superficial

political abstract positions you have

something like for example

we can't replicate this practically but

it's an example of trying to illustrate

the point i'm saying

during the cold war the soviet union its

very existence

pushed everyone left the republicans

were left-wing

compared to today and the democrats were

too

extremely left-wing compared to today

just because the soviet union existed

and it was this alternative

in order to rearrange the political

spectrum

and redefine the political spectrum

you have to assume some type of novel

position that relates to the objective

and material essence

that defines people's relationship to

politics

when you relate to the essence in a new

way

it will push the forum along is what i

would say

and the second thing about the hostility

specifically between us

i hope you don't take it too personally

i've got personally very heated and

caught up in the excitement and

it's entertaining and it's like wwe and

it's fun

um but i think the main source of my

hostility

was that when i initially typed in the

chat

um uh i was just upset that i was banned

you know that's pretty much why

uh i think why i escalated it so far

but since you have very kindly and very

graciously

um decided to engage me in a genuine and

human way

um i see no reason why not to return the

favor

it's just that a lot of people tend to

be very dismissive of us

and they um they don't treat us in a

human or genuine way

uh and a lot of people also want to

cancel us a lot of people just

think we shouldn't be tolerated but if

people treat us in a genuine way in a

human way

of course we must be human beings you

know

yeah and i appreciate that like the

first part of this debate was very fun

it's a good time and we you know the wwe

kind of like blood sports stuff is fun

but at the end of the day like

the reason why i got into this whole

political thing is because i i

enjoy i've always want to be a youtuber

and i enjoy talking about what i talk

about but i also

want to affect meaningful change in the

world and um

i just i feel like the right is so

efficient at

getting together and like everything

from libertarians to

full-on neo-nazis and stuff like that

are so good at coming together and

and getting behind a single goal and

achieving what they want to achieve

but the left is isn't nearly as good at

that and it's something that

um worries me greatly

well on a positive note i guess if it's

positive

it seems like the right is very much in

disarray now and

um a lot of people are con looking for

new alternatives and

new ideas after trump and to be fair

there's a

the right do have their share fair of uh

infighting that i've witnessed

um but uh yeah i think

uh infrared we basically just want to

define ourselves we want to

bring something new to the table right

if anything else

um and if people treat us and disagree

with us

it's completely fine to disagree with us

if people treat us with respect we will

treat anyone who treats us with respect

it will return the favor um it's only

when people

uh begin to disrespect us that

we will maybe get a little bit um

wwe you know yeah i i understand that

um i guess just from content creator to

content creator if i'm

if i'm to give you a little bit of

advice when it comes to online content

creation and building your audience

there's a certain level like i know it's

cringy when it comes to politics but

in regards to content creator advice

um optics is very important um

if you're trying to build an online

career you do have to worry about optics

you do have to worry about how you look

regardless of whether or not it means

that um maybe you have to sacrifice

some of the uh principally beliefs that

you hold

if you want to be efficacious and

putting forward your message you do have

to focus a lot on optics because

people's first impressions of you

really do matter okay i appreciate your

advice we are very new to this

uh this is like one of my 12th stream or

something so

um yeah i appreciate the advice we are

kind of newbies to the game

and i understand i'm a little bit

ridiculous but i want people to know i

don't actually take myself that

seriously i'm just having some fun

um and i know how the internet works you

know i know

it's just how you get meme to oblivion

right yeah

but you know it's it's just um

it's just good fun you know yeah it was

a good time i appreciate

um you having me uh you know talking to

me and everything like that

i'm very drunk right now this stream was

initially just meant to be like me doing

it to your list of like leftist content

creators and me getting drunk and doing

like

media share videos which is basically

where like people can donate to send me

videos to watch on stream and i

i do this every friday where i just get

really drunk so i'm hammered right now

but um i do i do appreciate you talking

to me and i know at the beginning it was

like very spicy but i i

try to keep most conversations i have

very productive

so i'm glad we're able to like wrap it

up with with this but is there anything

else you want to

want to say before we wrap things up

um infrared's a completely brand new

channel so if you're interested

uh i don't know how to say it on youtube

but on twitch it's twitch.tv slash

show infrared our twitter is

twitter.twitter.comshowinforred

and um yeah i guess that's all alrighty

um have a good one my dude i hope i i

wish you luck in your future endeavors

with online content creation everything

and i hope you have a good one i'm gonna

go watch some funny videos submitted by

my fans

okay it was a nice conversation see you

later man alrighty have a good one

youtube bye bye bye

i that was really fun in the beginning i

really do feel like when it comes to

leftist unity stuff

like if we can if we can like

cut through what do you think guys was a

fun stream

dude this was a nine hour stream very

important it's 12 dude

i was trying to fix my sleep schedule

too

i mean around with them like a lot in

the beginning but like

i i am genuinely genuinely

oh shit dude i wasn't even paying

attention to chat that i actually value

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you