CHATTING WITH KANTBOT TWITTER @KBULTRA0 [2021-06-24]

i'm a poor man who needs some money poor man who needs a job

money i needney

i guys we do not have

too much time to spare

the woman i have to cut this intro short

the person i'm going to bring on is

ant bat the famous conntbat you don't know who cantbat is

you live under a rock and basically you know you're just

pretty much not even cool to watch this stream in the first im just kidding

he's a

you know i'm going to let him introduce himself because i don' eve know what to say

he's a super interesting guy

um

he's famous on twitter

he is famous for

announcement

that trump was going to complete the system of german idealism

ya i'm going to bring him on right now

okay

was the man

oh can you hear me

yeah i gave you

i

sor i have

um

if can youuh turn your mike up a little bit if it's possible

ah

how about that

that that one's way better yeat that's better ok sorry there we go

sure you know i have all my little audio gears and

and shit like that of this wlitll

box thing this focus right now have all these little buttons and stuff

turn

yeah i think probably max's volume would be best

with a mike

all right we're

uh

that's max for me that's max right now

ah it's good as good

all right

am

so uh

i was thinking maybe if you could like uh introduce yourself to the audiencec cause

are we on right now

yeah yeah we're alive right now

i was just listening to your little

um intro that you gave me

i think you give me too much credit

i don't think of that i

knowing people online makes you

that cool

uh

but i don't know i don't see

you're in this whole world of like

debating will

bushes and

people like that i don't get that i don't know anything about that

so

i don't know is are we going to debate bush can we debate goush right now like i'll help you

no unfortunately like um

you know what oh my god i'd love to you know what

maybe he will debate you he won't debate me again because i've been trying he just won't

but i don't know i don't know of him i have no idea if he knows who i am so i

no no clue if you would want to do that but o yeah

i'll champion you whenever you want oh

my god that would be fucking legendary honestly that would literally be like

if you started debating those people it'd be like

it's just

yeah that would be

i'm too mean when i debate people people get like upset like trouble

did they get

well you know i did this

debate with this guy's name

that he is russell

i

i don't know if you know he runs something's called like renegade university

i don't know who that is i'll tell you i did see one of your debates before and it was

it was actually you were literally right like

on ironically you were like

exactly what my view was

i don't even know if you were trolling or anything but like it was my literal like view it was like

you're debating this guy about stalin and you were like

so have you seen dune and the guy's like yeah and he's like yeah that was that that's daddyus russell oh that okay i saw some of that one yeah and i on iron like on ironically that is literally like

my view

it was pissing me off so much i mean he was like

kind of a schemer or something he's like a

did this whole thing of

teaching at columbia he wasn't really a full professor or anything as far as i know

but he sort of like played himself off like

i'm the renegade professor man

like i'm you know going rogue and i'm going to like acept this new the renegade university

and he charged like three hundred bucks or something

to like take the classes on this website which are just like

well youtube videos of him just saying the stupidt shit

you know and then

so then he like wanted to debate a communist or whatever

and i

i thought would just be like a good time and

i thought he knew what he was

it w

it was the deal was

because he asked me and then but then doing that debate

he just like

he that cried afterwards or something

like i heard him that he

said that his audio

uh didn't work so he couldn't send me his track and

all types of shit like it was

but people got mad at that one they thought it was like to mean to him so i don't know if they'll get too mad if i do that

bount ah

i will tell you right now that

that would be like

incredible

that would be like a work of art

if you debated fucking bread tube and all those people

that would definitely be

mean where the breadsheep stuff come from

you know uh

that's it's like a chapel thing it was on the chapel u

chapel read it i think they were talking about the

that

that quest for bread book or whatever that was like you yeah is that what that is peterpotk in the conquest of bread yeah that's yeah that's what it comes from

so basically bread tube uh it's it was like

it was part of the

gamergate counter revolution

so they're pretty much like

the white guard of

no fucking game or gaate

like m

so i think it came they pretty much like

we're you know like in to twoenty and sixteen like

there was like this huge like eighties kind of

revival or whatever

maybe i like in terms of like aesthetics and like

i don't yeah i don't believe in decades

i'm

yeah

so basically i think

bread tube was like part of that

stylistically like you like the vapor way thing

and they just like had a left wing spin

to it i guess

know you know what kind of reminds me of though it's like

during the french revolution there was the

their counter revolutionaries they were called

muscadi you know what i'm talking about

yeah

that's kind of what i'm thinking when it comes to like bread whatever like contra points

ah nathan robinson he's got their style

i don't know i can't really follow it

but last time so the last episode that we did so know i didn't introuce

h introduce myself

to everybody but i just do this like mean my my guy

edberg

who is my man

he he wanted to be here he just couldn't because he's like doing all this house sitting by the way

so you hep

he'll do one he wants to do one with you at some point

him up

but

desinitely we know the show together where we just cover all these different topics in history we go really

deep down we do like

one hundred hours

a research

to do these different topics like

you know iran contra and all this

stuff so the last one that we did

was

on political economy right

and so i

and for like the intro for it i do all these little

nix is of

like sound collages

different samples and stuff so i went

try to find

debates of these people like

the voosch

versus destiny or whatever

and it just is it's incomprehensible to me it's just garbage is total bullshit it's nonsense

it's just gibberish

like i was listening to through this

and um

putting in

you know editing the sample and it's like an hour long fuck and screed of these two guys like yelling at each other about fucking nothing

and then

i was just like clipping out like

sections at random to get down just like

that

taking out five minutes ten minutes

twenty minutes and then

there was no you couldn't tell that i had done that if you just listen to what i played back

h sounded like a continuous like

gibber stream of them talking to one another

like there's no

there is no coherence or structure or anything as like you could jt take anything out at random and it was still

sound exactly this

well that's why it's so easy because like these are people with like

hundreds and thousands and millions of followers and stuff

and it that's the thing it's like it's it's pretty much like you're walking into an an open door like it

it really wouldn't take that much effort for someone who actually knows stuff

to just

pretty much

completely

just

i guess fucking

it's just like pretty much like btu police people you know

like there's like this whole debate culture with bread tube and all these people and it's like

oh you know is destiny going to debate this guy oh who's going to win and it's like it seems like there's so much

it's just the lamest

debates that they can have the talking points that they use is just the oldest hit

that you can hear ofly people

busting out these arguments

that sound like stuff just libertarian talking points from like

ten years ago yeah

ya that's what i mean it's like

so someone who really like actually knows stuff

it would not be hard for them to just pretty much swoop in and

because it's i'm a i don't know i just

i like

political economy i want to learn more about it the people don't do these

sub

justice they're lazy that's what upsets me about it

yeah suw that we did i mean we were just talking all about like

william petty and like the royal society like going back to the

the financial revolution of

that

sixty ninetunes england and shit like that it's like

have these people ever read anything about any of this

it's like they live in their own t

you know insular bullshit world

this's jus complete fantasy they're not engaged with these topics at all

so what is this like

you know and

the totally hypocritical first of all but also just embarrassing

to even

but they're stuck in like this kind of like discourse trap where like they think the extent of

subject matter

of any importance is like exhausted by

the discourse that they're in like for example

um like oh what did vosh say or what did destiny say or what did this person say and like what were what are they arguing about like what ty you know what i mean like

they're stuck in this like loop where the only things they care about are defined by

that

the subjects that they're so that's why i'm saying like

it would be super easy for like an invasive species pretty much

to come in and like just completely change the game

that's hu man that's why i here you're doing i mean that's what people are telling me i mean i didn't know

you know i hadn't heard of

you before and i hadn't heard of like any of this

stuff

before really but

it was it was edberg

who's like turning me on to your your stream your youtube

so and i was like he he's not the type of guy who

watches streams or engages with a red tube or anything like that he doesn't carr his way above that stuff so then

when he said that

you know oh

yeah infrared is pretty cool like i listen to that sometimes i

i said all right

you know that must be something that it must be something worthwhile because ed ed berg doesn't fuck around like that

no yeah edberg is

yeah he's an o g he's cl

super

he's one of them

pro yeah one of the most

ah

well read

and most

unique and interesting

marxis

i think uh

i'm ever familiar with y

b so but i i been i've followed ed berg for like since like twenty seventeen twent he's twenty eighteen so

you know we got uh hooked up just because

i i was doing all this

you know

got way more into

into theory on a couple things because i've been doing all this stuff with like

libnez and like worlds

and you know

contin cosmological

uh idea

and and things like that putting putting that together

and so we got hooked up on that i

he had been around for a while but we had never talked to mean we like followed each other

but then like last

year like last

bring our

w i think

we started the

just chatting a lot because

i reached out just started sharing some of these id

ideas i was having was

going through like liveness

stuff

and then that led to us just doing all these

different shows about like j f k

a iran contra

and it's just like i love doing stuff like that so much more i used to do these shows these podcasts

where you get like dasha on you know who like dsha is yeah yeah i know you talk to dasha for an hour it's just so it was always boring there's nothing you can ever talk and talk about those people

din't know anything

so i always have to do these shows of people who are just like you have to carry the whole thing to come up with stuff that they can talk about which is like usually just themselves

and the

yeah

born but

just doing stuff with like edberg is so much better because i love

you know

on all the shows that we do all the research that we do it's just so great because we can talk about

you know

marxism

and we do talk about we talk about marxis mlott in the show i feel like

the stuff that we do talking about marxism on

our shows way more than i've ever heard any of these bread to

oh yeah it's not even i mean like we're pretty much dealing with

a completely different dum

universe basically like

you know the way i think about it is that the

i it's almost like when i'm dealing with bread tubment like i don't consider that to be like the actual realm of like

thought or theory or like i don't really even see theory being like suspended in real time

as like even necessarily relevant bread tube is literally just a complete

the specta it's like a complete fiction you know it's like a complete uh

fake word

y honestly feel crazy because it's like

do these people even know anything about marxis i'm not your they do not think about it

but you know i feel like there's so much of the actual

but nuance

of

theory that's just missing i mean i'm big into theory what i have like a kind of a broader

understanding of it of mean this is the whole point of view

like if you care about like

dilectrical materialism that's like the whole point of dilectrical materialism is that it's

you know you're changing consciousness

and that's like the theoretical angle of it and the

point is that it links together

you know changes in the economic situation

changes and you know through the historical

the self awareness

of

you know the proletariat

and

theory is that self awareness right it's like they're

self consciousness of their own historical position

which then puts them into a position where they can like change

the you know material circumstances

that they're nest it's like

you know there's a that's what the dialectic is but hear these all these other people talk about t they revert back to the most bullshit inane

like mean definitions and like what you know

it's just awful

yeah i mean um

you know the the thing with that is uh

it's an interesting thing because the the things that

bread tube considers like

profound and like interesting theory and stuff

is really stuff you find interesting

when you first get into like

caring about politics at all when you're like you know

fourteen thirteen years old like what what w bo says for example

that's stuff that like i would think about

and say when i would when i'm like fourteen years old and i'm first interested but at the same time you know paradoxically i guess

this is what commands the attention

of

and hundreds and hundreds and thousands of people so it's really like i know cynically we tend to think like oh yeah the masses are asses

like ocause you know

mean edwar we were recording an episode yesterday we're doing this huge episode on newfoundland

which is like a whole can of worms did you know that newfoundland is uh just totally fucked it's the most fucked country in the world that the the en the british sold

newfoundland to canada

and exchange for canada forgiving the debts

war debts that from the loans that they had given britain during world war two

that newfoundland did not have any like say or choice

and joining

um

you know confederation with canada

and this was entirely completely illegal

by the way

yeah that's crazy

no i'm no it's even worse than that this is like a real thing believe me so it's

newfoundland was not part of canada until nineteen forty nine right it's a dominion that's like in the english commonweth the british commonwealth thirds

the idea of the dominion

so it's all these sovereign dominions right there sitting alongside one another in this commonwealth

certainly technically they're all supposed to be ranked

know equally as like all sovereign nations along with great britain

and

until nine heenred forty nine newfoundland and canada were both separate dominions rathertected with separate countries

and so

during the nineteen thirties

um you know after the great depression started

basically newfoundland was broke they were close to bankruptcy so they went back to

britain and they said they went to like the foreign office the dominions office there

and they said

can you give us some help

right

to get out of bankruptcy we're like dying here

and part of the bankruptcy it had to do with

the fact that the

this was during the great depression so they were

uh it had to do with their welfare spending but it also had to do with like the fact that they had made

im

loans to great britain for world war one that britain didn't pay back stuff like that

but

basically

great britain sent a commission over to newfoundland right and they said

ok

um we are going to help you but we're not going to give you a free ride or anything right

you have to work for this you know this is serious we're not just going to give you a handout

so what we're going to do is

we're going to have a take away your sovereign rule

and we're going to put a commission in place a british commission that's going to rule

all of newfoundland have total power over and you're going to have all your democratic

institutions

suspended

until at such a time

when your when you are profitable again right

when you are no longer running a deficit

so

they signed a law nine hundred thirty three parliament there is an act

that put into place

the you know the terms of this agreement where

it said

that

when

newfoundland is solvent again

it will get itself rule back it will be you know have its sovereignty returned to it

and so

during world war two

newfoundland was very successful because they made lots of like leases to america and to britain for bases and stuff

like in the newfoundland airports called ganger airport

it was the busiest airport in the world in world war two

because you knowh newfoundland if you don't it's onlik the the most easterly yeah part of canada like the so

gandra airport is where they were flying all the supplies

back and forth between north america and great britain

so this was just part of like all the different things that newfoundland

a dead during world war two that made very strategically important and also

they made a lot of money and they they became solvent again they started making

a surplus budget surplus

so then

after world war ti

aad

they they reopen the

you know issue of sovereignty and self rule

and ending the commission rule

and they held a convention basically where they said ok now we're everybody all your propit all the parts of newfoundland

you are going to elect delegates they're going to go to convention

and they're going to have some vote

basically decided making a suggestion

about what the next steps are going to be towards newfoundland getting its sovereignty back

but

in secret

and this is completely true

in secret great britain and canada

had conducted extensive negotiations as early as nineteen forty one

to sell newfoundland

to canada

britain was like britain was exercising its complete authority under this commission rule

over newfoinland

and was negotiating to sell newfoundland

to canada

and

but they didn't have any right to do that under the terms of the one nine hundred and thirty three act which you know established commission rule they were

you know required to give sovereignty back to newfoindland

before

you know in december of oneusd nine hundred forty five is when they announced this this convention right

but before that in

in september of nineteen forty five they had already closed the deal with canada

so this dealt this convention and the delegate the delegation that was sent to it

totd bullshit it was all like

pre pre arranged even before that months before thaty had closed

all the terms

that newfoundland was going to have to accept

in order to confederate with canada

that's so did anyone raise the issue afterwards or

people try to but they you know it's a very contentious issue newfoundlan i talked to some newfoundlanders

a while doing this this episode

that's go gets

treated as kind of like a conspiracy theory or something but in the eighties

all these foreign office papers

got like declassified and you know it's completely

true it's not like even that

you know there's nothing

crazy about it

but

basically

it was all done by this guy named joey smallwood who is the first premier of newfoundland

newfoundland and labradors the full name is like labrador

labradors the part of the the canadian mainland which is like bordering quebec

and then there's aan island in newfoundland right and they form together a province called

newfound london

newfinland and labrador right

but

it's like the size of can california right and it but

california has a population of

whatever like forty million people

newfoundland and labrador has a population of like one hundred and fifty thousand

yeah and it's the same size

so it's like the last frontier of like mineral resources right

mmhmm so

the premier the first premier of newfoundland guide

joey smallwet who's actually

was a socialist journalist

um

who spent the one nine hundred twenty s in new york like covering eugene debs and

stuff like that and youterviewing all these femous socialists from that era

and so he has a big reputation as actually being a socialist which is very contentious because

when he became premier of newfoundland

like in the one nine hundred nine hundred forty nine and then in the one nine hundred fifty s

is that he arranged

for all these companies like n m rothschilds and company

and like rio tinto mining corporation and like

anglo american

anglo american south africa corporation

like to come into newfoundland and do all this mineral

exploration

right

and if you don't know like anglo american like south african corporation like that's the company that owns de beers diamond consortium

yeah and and them rosschild is like the london bank of the roschilds family it's like

so

it's kind of like this whole fucked up situation so the i mean the show that we're doing

uh right now is just all about

the kind of that history but then going into all these corporations

that did all this mining exploration uranium is a big part of it

it's crazy but

i don't know i didn't mean to summarize it at such length because my real point

to begin with was just saying that when we mean and were recording yesterday

he had been mentioning you

because we're talking about all this the

you know

this

idea of how kind of economic development happens

and he was talking about your

w you know he said that this is as far as he understood was like your theory

of um

you know development as we were talking about

how the idea of like competition

and like organic economic development how that's bullshit basically mhm

and how it's completely like

you know it is a kind of socialism right and he we were talking about the idea that communism has to come and destroy socialism and that we already have socialism

yeah is that you know something you talk about that's

yes it's something i would talked about extensively at first

a when i first started screaming but

i real a lot of my viewers started to get super like upset

and they were like actually like if you know like they're just pretty much like a lot of marxoids

and it's not that i want to like pander to people but i was so annoyed by like chatters just coming in like

you just being marxids pretty much you know like

um

trying to like correct me like i'm a student who'd like

got the wrong answer on a test

so i just stopped just because of how annoyed i was but basically the idea is

my idea was that

if you want to go like really far was that actually marx was the first critic of socialism

is and that marx and angles actually anticipated socialism

as some kind of a

inevitability

like a real force of history and that they were the first ones to actually critically reflect upon it

in some kind of way like everyone else pretty much denied it

you know like the idea pretty much is that anti communism

or antisocialism has always just been a colpe like even the fucking austrians are in a way like some kind of utopian socialist

thinkers well exactly exactly because

the thing about the austrians is that the whole idea of like the planners problem or whatever if you yh stop and look at it right we're talking about like

von meesus came up with the plannet's problem right and then hyak was like the one

who like made it famous and popularized a lot

but the whole con the whole point of that problem is like

talking about coordination right and so

the the idea is between you either have the choice between a central planner or

you know using the market to coordinate

but if you really

think about it

the en goal is the same in either case the end goal is coordination

yeah

so yes like there's not

yeah

it's like um

the main thing for me at least is the way in which

politics is connected the way in which economic ends are indexed

or even sometimes determined by politics right

it there's a there's

some kind of political goal

with the use of economics right and this is a kind of elementary

socialistic relationship

and it's one that i'm aware of course

even proceeds

like for example to simplify things i often talk about

contrasting nineteenth century liberal capitalism with

the twentieth century capitalism of course this is a real distinction

what

it's also very clear that even nineteenth century liberal capitalism

was in a way socialistic

that you know what i mean

no i totally agree with you i think just like factually you're you're correct because if you look at

like what the first investment bank in history is

it's a bank it's called credit mobile ari right it's a french investment bank

right and so

the corporate

form

that

the talk was

it's the s a form the society and nominee

right

and so in

and like france

they uh uh

i think it's like eighteen o two

uh they pass these

it's a new corporate code

in the corporate code they put into place the possibility of like forming these new kinds of companies called these society nominee right

and

really society and nominee is like an older form of

royal charter corporations right there's an implicit

public function that these that the first investment bank

was

you know understood to play

that's why they were allowed in the first place the idea

of you know credit mobile lare was that

it sucked up all this capital that the middle class had beg begun to accumulate

and then use that to build all these railroads and ship all over europe

and right and they they were responsible for all this industrial development they were also like sain simonians

by the way yeah yeah i think i heard about what you were what you're talking about actually

um

ya but the it that

i don't knowf

you define socialism as just like public

um

i think you know

public control of the economy or like yoking

corporations or you know business activity to like public ends

and like government regulation and

that's like

you know

that that

it has been going on since

that

in a

the turn of the nineteenth century

and that's how that's how all of europe was developed in terms of like building the railroads and utilities and ships

i think

another way to think about it

for me at least is that

so when we when we think about for example private property right

and of course private properties like the

like the center of everything like when it comes to

when we're talking about capitalism or anything else right

it's what defines

ah

the range of exchange it would and the market and all that kind of stuff

so to me

um

that what's going on is an interesting dialectic between

private property is something that's objective right like something that

fundamentally does exist outside of

on the public or state sphere and then private property as an institution which

is basically the extent to which

private property is recognized and respected

abide the state whether that's in the form of riightes or some other kind of a institution like in the pre modern era

the basic idea is that

there's a because of this contradiction you get a certain kind of paradox

private property

is in a way

commune like

socialist or communistic because

private property gets to a point

and insfar as it's an explicit public institution

of becoming so intermingled with the political forms of its instantiation and recognition and so on and so on that

for example the prevailing form of private property becomes sustained by

formal or informal networks

uh it becomes uh sustained by uh

connections with the government it becomes entangled with politics decision making

becomes a kind of estranged from its

real objective basis and it becomes a

instanchiated in some kind of likey

subject mostly subjectively mediated form

and sing it

yeah and basically like on agree with you

i totally agree with you i mean i just want don't mean to interrupt you oh yeahh i'm not trying to be right i'm just saying like oh yeah i think you're right

oh ya appreciate ya

im

y and so basically the idea is that you get a kind of interesting paradox with that like um

and then also you can think in marxis terms like this is where value becomes recycled it ceases to be the site of the creation of value but

the form of its recyclement

then h

paradoxically

the real objective basis of private property real private property if you will

becomes the very basis for a kind of new

communism or a new socialism

which seeks to kind of like break up

these institutions or

kind of um

to break the power of cities which is the historical example of it

uh you know like the ins the relationship between cities and uh

no mads or cities in the countryside in before capitalism

um

so it's interesting like uh i don't know it's a very paradoxical dialectic kind of thing you have to wrap your head around which is basically that

this is kind of also how i understand the reform and opening up in china it's like

in in order to

so pretty much let me just put it this way to be a ron paul libertarian you have to be like a communist basically right you need

you need some kind of common social

basis and power in order to break up monopolies break up big institutions and repartalize

a property

in order so there can be a so called so called real market or whatever

no you know this is

a really key point historically i think if you go back to

you know the the

late

um

seventeenth century and basically the financial transformations that happened there

because

them

like this is what habber moss talks about ins structural transformation

transformation of the public sphere

and so

the idea of what you're saying is but about this tension right between public and private property and about

like that i think you're exactly right and when you're talking about like the

you know

the

disconnection the abstraction right

of economic activity and she looks like

own separate realm that's a very historical thing that like definitely

is you can trace it directly back

to like the sixty nineties into english

because that's in sixteen ninety five is when the bank of england is formed right

and

if you look at that whole history

of how that you know surrounding that transformation

it's actually its incredible because

the economy at that point was entirely fictionalized

into this know modern speculative economy

and they used to call like today we have entrepreneurs

well back and then it was called projectors right if you go and you read like the

you know daniel defoe or like jonathan swift or stuff they use the term they always use as projector as in

somebody who's coming up with projects

right

so that was the big epidemic at that time and though you had things like the south sea bubble

came from otn a few

have looked into the history of that all it's just an interesting kind of parallel to

like the the crisis is of

the two thousand and eight or whatever but

very similar economically but the point is that

at that time

basically the

during the

the restoration

right

so they had the

they wanted to base everything based on land

and

and they had an economic theory of value

right that held that

that there was a finite amount of wealth a finite amount of value that value was

you know linked and

you know as a substance that was

you know the essence contained by

precious metals

or by lan or by labor

and that's one of the actual funny things is that

that the the

originator of political economy is this guy named william pettit who is a physician

right and he uh

came up with this idea is called political arithmetic

right and then that's kind of the

point at which mercantilism changes into

up

classical political economy of like the eighteenth century

is to his guy william petty

but william petty had a labor theory of value

right and it wasn't until after that until the the

you know eighteenth century until like

i

you know

you get into david hume in the scottish you know commonsense philosophers and am smith

that you had a change

to subjectivize value

because petty

starts off like he's part of he's like an economic advisor

to you know charles the second james the second

during the restoration years

and they had their whole economic ideology was based on

you know there is this finite amount of wealth

that you know precious metals like silver

that they contain

their own value that you know

that

labor that value is a objective thing that belongs to labor metal or land

and so they saw

their natural enemy like england's natural enemy

to be the dutch

in because the dutch were the ones

also who are going around asia and trading

and so they imagine that there was a finite amount of wealth to be gain from trading so they did they wanted to give

like the east india company a monopoly

on you know trade in asia because they thought that all the british traders just went over there

and were coordinated

that they would cut into each other's like

shares of this finite amount of wealth that was possible to be obtained through

this trade

and so

you know the uh

the they had

this very set idea of what value was

but that w'll change

when you get the glorious revolution of like six hundred eighty eight and then

you have the formation of the bank of england in the financial revolution there's a switch

between you know immobile

property to mobile property

right

that's exactly the whole the whole thing i switch from this land and metal

and to a switch to credit

and financial instruments

and you know the

abstract value

value that's taken out of and abstracted from

you know metal or land

or labor and turn into credit and money and

you know bonds and

representations

of value

and that's exactly what happens

you know in the in the sixtiy nineties but that

point

is also exactly when the public sphere emerges

and the public's fear is exactly that point

that area where you're talking about

where economic activity happens

right it gets like put into its own little realm

ah and if you know anything about like um

you know eighteenth century british literature there's all this very big tension

like you were kind of saying economically but let's carry through

into literature

in the tension between like your public self

in your private self your domestic self

right

and so a lot of the you know eighteenth century english novels they all turn around

um

you know these

these

problems of

people

projecting themselves into the public sphere making themselves appear to be certain ways ah ok

so that's like one of t

you know one of the big authors is henry fielding like he wrote these books like tom jones

these different big english novels of the eighteenth century

and the humor of all those books turns around like

the fact that you have people who are

a

you know manipulating how they appear in the public sphere

right into something that they're not in order to gain varyous social benefits

and so that's directly connected

like historically

to the the

creation of like finance capital

as like an abstract thing like not only does

not only is like

wealth and value abstracted

but also like character and personality

so two things i find really interesting about that is one

so

so um this kind of puts into new perspective things like obviously the whole

um

what do we call it uh in a now we call it uh

the attention economy this entertainment economy whatever

but yeah you can very clearly see how this is a kind of very clear primordial unity i guess sounds like

between the

the economic financial sphere and what we today call the attention economy or the the

information economy today it seems like these two are very much divorced like for example

amh

the real so called entrepreneurs of the present day they're kind of in the shadows and the people who represent them

uh the fate the people a they're pretty much

paying them

but there is a whole kind of different economy going on there but so it's so a projector basically

was the earlier form of an entrepreneur

and rather than like the term the just the term that they yeah back then i mean

yeah yeah and and instead of maybe like thinking about it how we do today in terms like oh yeah a business person is someone who creates wealth a projector is more someone who

amplifies

a there

i guess

existence

projects themselves onto some kind of public common sphere and

rather than someone who creates something from thin air it someone who

is some

occupyes like the public

some kind of public view public space

it's super interesting you know it's like r it's like

this is exactly where like public relations come from like advertising comes from right it's the same

about like

you know the tension economy or or whatever it's like this is the same sort of stuff

that just happens on social media it's i mean it's obviously way worse now than it was in the eighteenth centy so

when we talk about all these like performative

like debate people or whatever on twitch and shit like that it's like this is the same thing as that they're totally alienated from there

oh yeah om

elves is that

and the project these characters that you know

they endow

like falsely

with all of their reality that they have of their own existence

and they turn like these characters of themselves into

you know these these phantoms which they think are real which are off fighting all these battles on twitch

over like the bullshit version of of economics that

they don't even know anything about

so the real

the real question this is kind of probably a hard question for me is that to think about is

what actually is the object of this new

public sphere like

what ultimately is it

substance what is it really like um

this thing in which people are projecting themselves onto or this

sphere of uh

the public

the so called public

um

oh yeah nothing i wanted to point out just as a quick aside

the distinction we're working with i think m

probably continues also in the form of the tension between the tories and the whigs ort the tories represent more

land substantive basis of the economy and the whigs

or maybe it was the opposite i think maybe they switched the view yeah the wigs represented more the kind of the

abstraction a abstractionism of finess on it's pretty much like it's simply like the doogan's distinction between

uh land based and atlanticist right

what

yeh

but um

i think he's totally right but just aside about

doogan i mean i don't like like him very much because i just see him as jus a total propagandist and i think that like most of the people who are attracted to

reading him

like in the west in america like all these mean people online and stuff is that

they're just getting like propagandized too and they they on't have any critical capacity

to uh

engage with with that stuff and not be like affected by it in a bad way

like you obviously written it's propaganda that's written for the west to target people like that

but i think that like what the whole

frame of like atlanta assistance yeah yeah using me that

that's real old i mean we come across that a lot

in researching like walter lippmann and like the early nineteenth century and like

you know the influence of sea power on history and like

there was there really is like there was a whole attempt like a transatlantic

kind of financial quarter developing between like new york and london

like

you know during the inner war years actually the

the dollar and the pound sterling they

shared pserve currency status it was like fifty and fifty in terms of reserve holdings of like all the world's major banks

so that's like the whole basis of like atlanticism you know it's just like

that the sterling and the dollar

are the dual reserve currencies

yeah and some a lot of like the political alliances and stuff of like you know in world war two before world war two before they had been leased the first thing was called the destroyers for bases

where america gave great britain all these destroyers in exchange for

you know ninety nine year leases on a bunch of like

properties of military bases naval bases in the

caribbean

so that was like there's a whole vision there that's like totally like that parts

yeah

i think very

a very salient and accurate

mmhmm

um

yeah back to the question the like what do you think of it yeah about the public sphere what is its real

what is it ultimately that

people are participating participating and i think like maybe

you know some people would probably say i don't agree with it at all but like

just as a way to like um

give some context

some people would probably be like

it's really ai ltermately what what this is is like it's it's

it's all uh ai you knowll like the whole like landian bullshit like it's ai assembling itself from thet where they go wrong i think yes i agree i mean

that because that's just hypothasis that's like reification that's like just a total erroneous like

you know you know taking

something of taking an abstraction or an ideal like the public and then just

you know indulge yeahbstly reality immediate and in coorporealizing it in some kind of yeah and then i mean that's exactly what like marxism is against that's exactly like you know i'm

like i don't like um

you know the second international marxists

i you know the one that i go for is is gosh so he's like the one who i actually agree with and like a lot

mmhmm but um you know that's

that's something that i think he understands really well in particular and that that's like his

main major critique that he levels against all of his contemporaries of like the second international

right

is exactly that point against hyposthasis against reification

and i think that's not that's not even a coincidence either because you know he actually was a neo contian

yea yeah i mean uh

yea i've um

i've uh argued with pe about that before but ahbutly gosh

yeah yeah yeah

but he went to heidelberg the university of heidelberg not to go on a big

tangent but that's where like max ber and stuff

um taught and uh karl mannheim

and that was like the big sociological like center of like neo contunism neo conontinism how like four major academic centers

in different universities and in germany at the time it was like

you know marburg strausburg like heidelberg and whatever the fourth one is i

can't be even

i can't on tip my tongue can't remember right now but

i

yeah but yeah so lucas definitely had that neo conti in like

angle that he

definitely carried over if you read like theory of the novel or whatever at the beginning he's talking about a

how or he was too kindy and

right be caause he had that repudiation yeah right of like theory of the novel like in the well it is um it's really what l the way lucox do creates the school of western marxism itself right is this

rejection of engles is dialectics of nature

and this view that um

ah

materialist dialectic only applies to this kind of

uh

almost like h the trans and

sociality becomes like another word for the conti and transcendental

subject write this

sociality is the the

are the way in which reality ha is transcendentally mediated the social sphere

and because that's the whole point about trans like what the word transcendental means it

transcendental does not mean that transcendent

yea don't means second order that's the whole point of like what the

critique of pr reason is about is that

this is this is only a second order thing is that this has no reality that a soon as you start

applying the categories of like causation in existence and like substance to

to this idea

's like you're committing like the major like fallacy that's possible in all thought and that you are

hypot hypostatizing like

this idea in turning into like a false idol

yeah i mean yeah the distinction kant makes is basically like to avoid

conn't really wants to put a a

some kind of uh barrier in front of like this kind of english benthamite kind of uh

greedy subject who really just wants to get at the thing and just kind of

make it some kind of object of the senses that they can

immediately consume or

pleasure themselves with there's something like that

so yeah the yeah it's an important point for cont that you have to respect the

wh you look at like the publics fear to go like you

your actual question is like

that's the that's the sight of the discourse right that's the that's the whole thing is that

that in that sphere is where you have all this like

you know

writing happening public that's were like the publication industry takes place right book culture

like rub street is or the

call is like

that's where you have all these people writing letters

in their public personas

and like engaging in this public debate

right and the point of that is to like legitimize

you know the state's actions

is through this mechanism of the of this discourse right

yeah so it's almost like

i think your view would basically be that

this fear of the public is really

this kind of uh social transcendent uh

mediation of reality itself

a really good book a really good book

it's called i can actually just look

real quick and

bringing up here it's like am smith in the spectator society i think because

okay so

one of the big magazines that got published

like in the early eighteenth century it'es called the spectators written by these guys

joseph addison

and richard steele joseph addison was like a very important writer during that time

for like the wigs he was like a kind of like a literary like intellectual leader of the whigs

m and so they wrote the

this magazine

called the spectator and the premise of the magazine

is that there's something called the spectator society right that that's like the fictionalized like premise

a conceit of this magazine is that there's a spectator society

and anybody could be a member of the spectator society you never know it's like membership is secret and it has members all over

the whole world

and that they're just observing how people behave

in their public

selves is that they're they're observing people

in terms of their public behavior their etiquette like their their habits their manner

right

and that that's what the content of the spectator magazine is all the articles are about like

you know

one of our members in such and such a place has a funny you know this curious story about this one

h guy's behavior that he observed and

ya ya and and

you know

that had a whole thing about

uh kind of tailoring and like molding

like the public

like how people acted

whats there's there's a

i think it there's a

there's a some kind of author who is he

he was i think

uh in france paris he was like some kind of

and it was yeah it was about

observing all of these kind of archetypes of different basically like characters that you find what was his name though who was it i i

it was

fuk i can't believe i forgot

no not not guide wor i'm talking about much earlier

is i think

he was either french or he was a

h fuck i forgot his name but yeah he was basically like um

he was in the nineteenth century with some kind of author

that

and i don't remember i don't know who i

i can't place who you're talking about but yeah

look look it up and tell me because it sounds like there's

there's some different there's lots of interesting guys like

uh francis hutchinson in england like uh

at francis hudgingson was scotch and then there's the english there's the

well

his name um

it's sort of remember off the tip of your tongue sometimes

but uh

um

lord lord lord lord

a

sucket suck effect

but

basically we had all this debate in the early eighteenth century

in like england and stuff where you had this transformation from

um

objective value like i was talking about

lright

and that was carried through in a lot of like literary writing

and like by people like francis hutchinson because

they they wanted to like change to like a subjective mode

get away from this

like objective value because this actually goes this is like what locke is all about right i think people kind of misunderstand locke in this way

mhm and that like locke was like a he was like a

silver bug right

is that he like believed in that like silver

contained value

that belong to the silver

and so he was in all these debates at the at the time when you know over the monetary policy of the day

based on you know its going beyond just monetary

theory or economics

is that the real

point in contention

was you know what

you know the metaphysical idea of substance right and like where is the quality of different things contained

is it subjective is like a matter of our perception of objects or

you know is it

something that is

inhered in

yes themselves right

so yeah it's some

yeah i've i've tried to call this in my kind of critique of

mainstream marxism i call it cause i it's something that permates evenir i call it uh substantialism right

so disk this can go pretty far it applies to conception of the theory of value according to which

there is some kind of a

underlying tangible substance

behind the value it's the idea you can apply to class analysis that the proletariat is some kind of specific

but it's yeah to me it's substantialism is basically this kind of

um

way in which

essence becomes substance in this kind of time at this time period you're talking about of english early modernity

yh has a do with sentiment i was thinking

it's um

lord shaftbury is who i'm thinking of he's

an english writer

who kind of like

transforms

right this whole debate going away

from

the objective like theory of value into the subjective theory of value

and it's really like later it's like smith later

who is

really addressing that most and so the book that i actually want to recommend you that i brought up

here it's called the impartial spectator

and it's a really good book and you can see some of smith's quotes here right

he he says that like um

smith is talking about like

how

he says when i endeavor to examine my own conduct it is evident that i divide myself as it were into two persons

and that i the examiner

and judge represent a different character

from that other eye the person whose conduct is examined

into and judged of

the first is the spectator

the second is the agent

so on you're talking about like how people

are behaving in the public sphere

and like this is the whole point of like why i was using that the joseph addisons like spector as an example because

the way that it ends up uh becoming is that

we imagine

like hyper rational kind of

the being over ourselves right

who' is like

uh impartial and that he was like objective in his judgment who

we imagine like basically that he's

a novel reader and that

he's reading a novel about us

mhm and then that's how we then

determine whether or not our conduct is like right or wrong

in terms of like the

a public standards of behavior and public morality

is that we appeal to this imagined you know

hyper rational judge

that's a creation of our own minds

and so we put it up

over our own behavior and so we try to assume this like hyperrational perspective in judging our own conduct

right and thats that's how i d

you know if smith's

theory of moral sentiments like that's what it's all about

so

and it's it's very clear how like the big personalities on the internet for example

try are do not to me seem consciously aware of this distinction it seems like for

and you know if you hear about a lot of these debates

you're going to hear very weird kind of things like for example

should we support

m

should we support this or that person should we support this or that country

but they're not aware of the fact that

there's really a difference they're not paying attention when they say this thing

not making a distinction between

projecting the appearance of a person who supports

and what it actually means to support the thing as an agent as like some kind of causal agent like there's two things going on right

there's the

what should we project the appearance of support or should we actually

support it's two entirely different

things and they're not aware of that distinction so for example when they

during the twenty twenty election when they got on camera hey guys go vote for joe biden

i mean they knew that and they pretended as though

this is actually supporting joe biden

in actuality as some kind of causal agent

which it wasn't they didn't make a difference when in reality it was all a complete spectacle it's the're just the

they're just a

speaking as if like hypothetically if we all shared the same kind of agential

a position we should support bidence

but they treated that as though it's

there's no distinction between the two god to get what i'm saying

no i i think i understand what you mean i mean

it's like

this this whole idea of this judge right that you're creating in your head that you're appealing to

i mean that's like the same thing as

you know the idea of the public as like a pure abstraction right it's like basically

is that your ansropomorphizing

and like turning into a character

like this hyper rational like public

but you know

idea this abstraction

and you're like making it into a person

and then like you're assuming

in your imagination like the perspective of that person

right and you're not really the problem is that you're not really realizing is that i think is what you're saying is that you're not really realizing

that there is a subjective element to that that that

but you know

the perspective of that like hyper rational public judge

that is not objective

yeah you know yeah

you know that but that's the whole point of

the economy of moral sentiments that develops like in the eighteenth century

is that because they needed a way to coordinate all all

everybody's economic behavior in the public sphere

and so

if you can't appeal to an objective moral order which is like what lockdd

right yeah lok yeah

no

uh block is appealing to this whole idea of there's just like

uh it you know the um

an inherent like moral or order that god has imposed right and man just has like following

right and that

man knows what the moral order of god in the universe is based on

like you know feelings of guilt

or shame or things like that

yeah yeah

and then in the eighteenth century it gets by the time you get to smith that's all you know change is that you don't have that idea of the subjective moral order anymore to appeal to when it comes to coordinating everybody's

economic and like public activities which includes like political activity like voting

and

you know consumption choices

and opinions like what opinions are you upholding

in your writing like you know

like that's exactly what we see it today on twitter it's like

you know

ya

are you that's what people are mean when they are always using the stupid terms like signaaling and counter signaaling and right yeah you're being contraaryan

and what does that mean i mean that just means that like

you know according to the hyper rational judge or whatever

that you're contrarying to that based on like

the idea is that it's supposed to be an objective arbiter

but it's not

and that's like the hole that's where you begin to go off the rails

and you know um

it's also interesting because there's it seems like there's multiple

judges

ah

it's not only that it's not it's going to have your own

it what not to preempt you but i think what you mean is everybody's going to have their own

version of that judge because

you know you're creating it you're like you'r

kind of it's like a pure abstraction like you can't yeah i mean

when any individual person thinks about it they're going to like it

h reduce it down like boil it down into like a new version of that thing that belongs to them and they

the conflation that happens is in assuming

that

that version that you have that each individual has

that they all refer back to

this like hyperrational objective perspective it's not no yeah it's not only on the individual level i mean to say

with different states

different states you know

like um

it kind of it's reminds me of how for example there's different internets like china has its own internet

for example america has its own internet

and it's also a different uh kind of um

i don't know if you're like a fan of

like la con on or anything like that but that the kind of judge were we would be talking about because there's a word for it in

blakanian language

would be like the big other right if you heard of that or

yeah i've only heard about like because i read like a

blime object of ideology and yeah it's not i not there's it's not too loaded it pretty much just means what you're saying this kind of just like this other basically right that basically interpolates us

ah

that we perceive as this kind of gaze always judging us and

kind of our actions are

conforming to

um it

it it seems like it's somehow instantiated in the form of state the state itself what do you think about that idea

i think that's what a lot of people want it to be

oks when n know i mean that's what you get into i think when you when you get into

like fascism or you know some of these like mid twentieth century like political ideas because

really like then at the end of the nineteenth century turn of the twentieth century i think there's just a general failure

of like liberalism right

yeah and that you get into like even in america like twentieth century america is not liberal in theany traditional sense

that's the whole point of life

the development of

are pr controls of like the

the progressive technocrats right

who are you know using p r techniques in advertising communications theory social science

in order to like

you know control public opinion

to control the discourse to control

of you know what's happening in the public sphere

right they put themselves in a position where

you know they they

to set the terms of

the the discourse that's happening and they set up what the options are

and they try to lead people to you know the right decisions right

but that's exactly connected

to kind of this this ongoing collapse

of

this appeal to like in the impartial spectator of like am smith right

by the end of the nineteenth century

that kind of liberalism of like classical

political economy

that's what we're talking about this is political economy

like the classical political economy of the nineteenth century falls apart at ends

and that's exactly what happens because

that's exactly when you get

a neoclassical economics

the beginning right that's you know in the last couple of decades

of the nineteenth century that's exactly when you get like william stanley jevons

and the managerial aroun

the marginal theory of value in that kind of revolution that happens

during that time and that's exactly what marxs

is like dealing with two marks and angles as that

you know they're dealing with this whole idea that political economy

as like a mode

has run out

that's reaches and course

so then to go into the twentieth centuries that youi have all these different responses to it

and like neoliberalism or you know quote unquote neo liberalism in america

that i was describing with like public opinion control and like

progressive technokra sy in walter liptman and berne and

you know george gallop and elmo roper and

that kind of thing is one response to that collapse

but then you also like these other ideologies

you know of fascism or whatever is that they are also responses and so i think

their whole response

is to try to make that identity happen like you were saying

to make the state equal that public idea

yeah yeah yeah

uh i s i ya i mak okay so a few things um

because there's a lot

so i this is actually what i mean when i s when i used to say we live in socialism basically like

what i'm trying to give people an understanding of is that

when mark

and engles were anticipating the collapse of capitalism and the inevitability of socialism

this should be historicized as

the political economy of their time they saw it was precisely this that had come to an end

and that this corresponds to the the

basically the inevitable collapse of

capitalism as they knew it

a in general and that this is this is what they meant by the inevitability

of socialism

of course you to riighte about that

i'm i mean

mmhmm that

that's the whole point about like the the

that's that's what

they

you know marx does is

he historic sizes the theory of value political economy is a theory of value

it gets use in this was the whole point of this huge political economy episode that mean dead

but you know the whole point of that is that

a political economy is not just general synonym that you can use to refer to all economics

right througho all time

political economy specifically means particular

mode

right of like

you know theory of value

right that's happening at a particular time mostly in the eighteenth century following william petty in the financial revolution

and the bank of england

and that by like the mid

um you know

the nineteenth century

it ends it reaches a terminal point like a

you know ja s mill is the last classical political economy writer

but and then after that you get into an entirely new mode when you get into

you know william stanley jevans and like the

the marginal theory of value and like price theorys like

and neo classical economics that's something else that's like a new uh that's like a new mode that

supersedes that the

is the next stage

right and so the theory values itself its historicized

oint like it's historical that each

each of these economic like modes

you know is a theory of value and that the value what it is is being changed through

the succession of these theories

and i sind that

yeah

yeah no go ahead go ahead oh yeah i think my view is basically that

this turn that you're describing of the neoclassical economist corresponds to

what appears to me as an era in which there is no longer an objective

ah

notion or theory of value and

what this implly also coincidentally of course not a coincidence corresponds to is a sphere in which the economy is seen as a political tool

as some kind of uh thing

the government can intervene in to manipulate and change according to different kinds of political ends whether those ends are relating to war or social welfare

ah

piecehing al your no bro i'm sorry but you're totally you know you're exactly right

you're totally right because

that's exactly what the change in terminology is because this we're talking about the change from the using the term political economy

to using just the term economy

yeah and what happens is that

that is actually

you know that is where

the concept of politics

is devolved into its own separate thing as like something that you study separately than economics right

yeah

so yeah i mean just in the term of terminology you can see what what you're saying is that that

innovation that's being made in the late on nine hunenthd century with new classical economics

is it that's you know exactly corresponding to what you're saying at like all levels

yah so it's like um

that's really what i'm getting at the whole like kind of socialism thing is like you get to this point where

it's very unclear

what is the objective basis of

for example today's economy where like

you know we always talk about everything's a bubble but

what does it mean for something not to be a bubble in

in this day and age you know like

is everything kind of virtualized

i jus see that yes because i already see the virtualization as having begun

like i said

in the sixty nineties and i just see thiss a continuous process of further virtualization

that's been going on ever since to the point that you get to today

like would by the time you get to like the one nine hundred seventy s and stuff like

it's just like this is the compounding

h you know

o know

just

it's

debt

you being used to collateralize more debt and that debt becoming like financial instruments

that is used to collateralize like more financial instruments and just like

we have a

an almost infinite amount of of

uh so called wealth that exist

within all these financial instruments in the futures markets and derivatives

and none of it is real at all it's all just based on this like compounding

like

multi multiplying of

you know debt on top of debt like using being used to collateralize more debt you know

and none of it's real

and it's interesting because there's a clear dialectic

that we're dealing with

throughout all of this which is basically kind of the kind of dougin thing i was talking about earlier

um

and as we can see

i guess the the

this is a crude term but

just for the purposes of simplification

the atlanticist side of things right

we can see how it continually reinvents itself in new ways

even six even sinx as you were saying

l the sixties nineties

but what about the other side the the side of uh substance the side of uh

objectivity

is it possible that this

side of the dialectic i should say i suppose

that this also reinvents itself in new ways that this is

you know what i'm thinking about for example is uh

the fossil fuel economy right on the one hand you do have this complete virtualization but on the other hand you have

this bizarre way in which this seems to be

not of course oil is liquid we all know that it's not gold

but still a

not liquid in the financial sense but like just in general like it it's not really tangible in the same way gold is but

at the same time throughout through all of this

financial abstraction you get a kind of deeper

a corporealization i mean a corporealization so so deep

that it becomes molten right it becomes like

liquidity like like oil

ah

um

so i wonder if there's a kind of dialectic at hand in which we also see ah

the earth so to speak

the the substance becoming deeper too

yah hold on one second i'm just want to find this ok

i think you're you're right about that and the actually have a really good

paper

that's

you know

oh another thing just really quick too

is that we can also see how for example

ah

the ancient regime

at the landed aristocracy and the

often case like not in eng u k is a very peculiar case but

colliqually we associate the sight of land with the peasants the king and sometimes the landed

nobility

we also see and as opposed to the kind of um

a republican or democrat democratic forces we see this distinction reemerge with kind of so called petro authoritarianisms

since the seventies including the soviet union

who are more traditionalistic more tied to the ground more tied to the soil

anda of course more politically quote unquote authoritarian

and uh this kind of um

london and new york and canada

more financial hotspots and centers which are

so called the democratic

yeah uh well firstly so this is a really good paper that i'll recommend to you i can sent to later is that

is geology and world politics mineral resource appraisals as tools of geopolitical calculation nineteen nineteen to nineteen thirty nine

by andrea wester westerman

it's from historical social research published in two thousand and fifteen volume forty bubo

so

this is a really amazing paper that i think goes along exactly with what you're saying

about because mineral calculation itself is like that's not a scientific thing

right

at all

is that that's like a very social

and you know calculations made people have a false impression

that when

we do estimates or whatever how much oil reserves a country has

that that's like an objective scientific

thing

that that that it's not

there's no accuracy there

it' is very fluid and it's very dependent on lot social

factors

in terms of like book uh you know

you never have any idea how much oil or how much of a mineral is in the ground until you actually go and take it

is that the no to tell

otherwise

well that's all that's also uh why

i personally am very sympathetic i think ed edberg is also down this h thing too

is h the deepot biosphere you know what i'm talking about

yeah to fo i' meing s that for a really long time is that

uh

you know that's just kind of a very weird

m

theory can be card to suss out

yeah is actually going on there because it seems like kind of a conspiratorial

kind of theory i mean there's

as far as i can tell there's some like reasonable

colonel there

but the idea is that like oil is you know

it's made from what we call it fossil fuels

the assils that's made out of is of like the fossils of you know algae and shit that's in the ocean

yeah right

and so the theory of like the deepot biosphere and like abiotic oil is just the theory that

le and

that

the fossils of that algae that we find in petroleum like

that's why we think that it's like fossil fuel like if you take it out of the ground

and do an examination of oil you you'll find little fossils of these little algae like plankton

knives floating around in it right so yeaha is like

oh so oil comes from that

but then there's this ide well the deep hot biosphere like reverses it of just

tot say like

well what if

that algae just lived

underground in the city

biosphere that we don't really know much about and just

what if it ate oil

yeah

know oil what if it was reversed

what if like oil sustained like an ecosystem that was you know under underground somewhere and even if it's not true i just still like the idea you know

it's just

i don't know its just uh it's cool to me i don't know

n know it is it is cool but it's also like

there's such a you know fictional aspect to the way that we do this this mineral calculation that they're

you know it's even important

i think just to kind of bring up sometimes theories like that

just to kind of confound

you know the traditional views of things because

with

you know mineral calculation it's like like i was saying a very social thing in that

how they do it is they're taking into account like

oky

so

you know this country that this oil is and that it's progressing technologically and in terms of engineering capability

at a certain rate

and so

the amount of its

oil reserves is determined by that rate of

a

you know engineering capability

impr ah okay because

as that as their engineering ability improves

they're going to be able to get more oil out of the ground

right and because oil the how much oil oil you can actually get out of the ground

is a product of

it being profitable to get out of the ground

right the oil might be there but if it's not profitable to get

that nobody's going to get it so it doesn't get counted reserves you so the reserve doesn't mean like just oil that's just in the ground it means oil that can actually be

taken out of the ground

yeah

or will be taken oft of the ground based on the idea that

if it's not profitable to get taken out of the ground it won't be so

you have to rely on like technology getting better

in order to drop the price of getting the oil out in order for that oil to get put into your your calculated reserves so based on

based on what you know

do you think

do you think oile is

do you think any time soon like how

we're we're being taught by the media that

so called fossil fuels are going to be

replaced by solar and all this do you think that's going to happen or

ah i have no idea about that i mean i'm really skeptical of the

the plans to do that like i hate the fucking

the democratic

plans of the green new deal and stf yeah me too that i don't

that's all bullshit obviously is that and i don't think that's going to resolve

any uh kind of

the ecological problems that's not going to make

we have a

solar power better if you look at the fucking plan

that they have that they put out for the green new deal

it's like part of the

plans like in ten or twenty years or whatever you know we have to get off of

using jet fuel and using using like jet plane

right

yeah and so

they're like setting this timeline and they're like

ok in twenty years we're going to

be totally off of using all jet fuels and all jet airplanes and we're going to have something else right

the the the actual plan that they put out the bernie sanders put out

it doesn't say like what any of that means it doesn't say like what we're going to replace jet aircraft with

and it doesn't even say like we're going to ban air travel i mean i could be downed for that like fuck yeah ban just like ban all air travel

and you know that it is i mean we know the democrats are not doers there are more yh democrats are just kind of

they're kind of like the party i don't know i maybe the republicans are also this way but it seems to me democrats are the party of discourse they're stuck in a kind of

discursive

game where they're all just kind of virtue signaaling like

and it has nothing to do with it like a democrat way that the plan works is so dumb because

erney sanders like the way that he a dressed

itm is like he just says it

all right i'm going to the green new deal is going to earmark three hundred billion dollars

to do research

and development into

a new kind of airplane or some shit

it has no idea didn't

you know

it's yeah plans like that are just they're not made to

actually do things because they'll never succeed i mean they'll never succeed yeah objectively they they know they're not going to succeed they're just made to kind of like

say oh yeah we intend on doing the right thing and to please the right kind of people like you know the

the environmentalist

type of likelight

yeah

but i don't believe in the terms of

these kinds of plans ability to convert the economy to

h solar power or whatever the they're totally impotent and they're not able to do that because like you said the people who are making them

ar toal bullshit artist con artist is all rhetoric

you know there's nothing to it it's all yeah like like i said before it's like this basic distinction between

appearances and kind of like the appearance of someone who intends on doing this

ah and

the actual

like

reality in which it is going to be done

i mean there are two completely different things like

you know it's like um

it's more it's more to generate like a

yeah

yeah i mean the oil energy economy that we have i mean my only point would be just to say that

that is a product of you know socialistic coordination even though

it can be framed as much as people want

in terms of the being like uh

a product of economic competition and shi but if you look at me

danard oil is a fucking

global oil

a monopoly

right and that was never repudiated you canly talk about how

the standard oil trust was broken up by the sherman andy trust act but that's not actually true

because then later

you can go and find the congressional documents about like

um

in it

the oil cartel in the middle east and how national security

concerns over oil production

officially superseded

h the the outcome of the sherman anti trust like uh

dissolution of standard oil

like you know frank church released the the

many of the documents pertain to this but there is

you know a giant oil cartel a ramco

right that was formed out of standard oil of california standard oil new jersey standard oil of new york in texaco

and that

they formed a big huge s company in like the nine hundred forty five

called a ram co which ran all saudi saudi arabia's oil into

and then that's like officially you know a cartel

before monopoly

and the oil industry so

that whole you know the modern oil industry

and you know fossil fuel energy economy

that is a product of you know socialistic

you know coordination by the state and private companies working together

so

the idea to that you're going to transfer that you're going to transfer everything to

uh solar power based on like

if you can only get the

amount of energy per square inch of the solar panel to be low enough

you know

that that's going tout compete fossil fuel or whatever

that's bullshit to

i mean in worre you know

in order to actually make that transfer

uh away from fossil fuel energy economy to something else is like

that's going to require i believe

a socialistic you know coordination as did building the oil economy in the first place

but the problem is that you know

bernie sanders and all the democrats and all the d s a people and they're all

buckers and they're not you know

they have no idea what to do

so

yeah i mean um you just look at biden's new kind of infrastructure thing and so many people were impressed by it but

you can tell the democrats have

started to take into account

the like inability to just pass anything because the republicans

into their like so called boldness like

they do things not because they think it's going to work but just to like posture to the world that like oh yeah we're the good guys and it's just the republic somebody says in the chat hold on i one of you ck up this person the chat

the people in the chat they're like what's you what does he mean as socialistic ramco

the fuck i mean what do you fucking thining i mean it is that the second cairo conference

there a is two chyro conferences

you know f d r sent out survey teams to go to saudi arabia to make oil estimates

of the reserves

and then at the second cairo conference

they fuck and signed on to build

the the first major oil refinery in saudi arabia

and it considered an emergency priority that got expedited by f d r and the joint chiefs of staff

right

that

what the fuck you talk about the was considered like to be a major national security priority

and it was

completely done in terms of engine you know

the action of the state

right

do you know who the the lawyers for texaco were

is james forestall who is the first secretary of defense

and also working for james forestall

was paul nitz who authored and n a c sixty eight

right

do you know that this was a very fully coordinated plan

that they have that

there were plans basically to go and

bomb

the so soviet oil field in baku

right at the start of world war two because the soviets were selling their

petroleum to nazi germany right

so

the british and the french

y they actually had a plan to go and bomb the soviet oil fields in baku

that going back to like the eighthundred nineties

that there was a giant international oil war

between standard oil and between the baku oil fields and originally that was run by the nobel family right of like alford nobel

right and it's like this huge oil war that's been going on for so fucking long

and absolutely it's very you know

intimately bound up

and uh

national security concerns and state intervention and geopolitics i mean it's not just like

you know standard oil didn't just go see form it's like that's what i was talking of like the kind of like actually like marxsyds

in so you have to understand not marx is they live in this fairy tale

where

socialism equals like

kind of the kingdom of heaven on earth like socialism basically means

the good society where there is a unity between being and virtue

and it's basically like you it's a sacred kind of word you can't use it unless you're referring to that otherwise and that's why they have debates like oh is this true socialism

or is this fake like you know like they don't understand

they don't use socialism in the way like

you know like

people back then were using it like marxs and angles which is basically like you know

this kind of discernible

yeah the're scientific socialists there's like other differenty types of socialism like the kind

like america socialist and that in the way that we're like

fabian socialists like

if yeah what walter lippman

is that walter liptman is

he was a socialist i mean he was like one of the founding members or very major early participants in the intercollegiate socialist league right

and that like we're talking about going back to this is the socialist party of like eugene debs and like jack london and shit

is that

somebody like walter lippman he was absolutely a socialist but

he explicitly like rejected any scientific socialism

yeah he rejected class issues and he replaced them with fordy and like mass

you know

cycle analysis of like a society wide scale and by public relations and communications theory

and that he like used that in order to supplant like

the class basis

of like marxi and social

so he's a socialist

these people are all socialble

like all these like

you know herbert hoover and shit and all these republicans in the one nine hundred twenty s and like f d r is like

they're all socialists

but they're not like scientific socialists which is the only you know that seems to be what upsets people they're like they

yeh go ahead

god oh yeah and the reason it does is because

nobody really cares to call thehimself a socialist anymore

because it's just superfluous it's just like

it's already happened you know like why would you

like for example

during the liberal era of capitalism supposedly liberal era

it would make sense to be a socialist because but now that you know we have all these institutions and you know everything in place w what does it actually you know that's why iw sa like even neoliberals are

neoliberalism is like a post socialist phenomenon it's like

you know it's not some kind of return to actual like liberal capitalism it's just a kind of

it's world planning that's when no liberalism is it's like panning

it's not like you know

that and that's going back to like this whole idea of the planners problem like von mess and hyak is that

even as they are you know trying to

uh

move forward this idea of

the free market or whatever

it's the

they had their idea of the free market

is

that coordinates everybody's behavior into a system yeah that has like

a noble kind of uh

you know uh

way of

functioning that can be understood in empirical terms and like manipulated

the market is a tool of central planning

you know that's that's what that kind of terminology

all means you know like price sig

it's all right is a signal that's the whole point of the you know what

this libertarian economics is austrian economics

the idea is that price is a signal that price tells people what to do

yeah it's like it' it's information for central planners basically you know it's like it's if price

price you know if if

if we lived in like a free a so called free market price would not be a signal because price is just like an imminent

kind of

reality that

is a byproduct of rational independent actors engaging in exchange based on individual interest but

no clearly price is a signal for some kind of higher social

reality right

but anyway i all setting you a universal standard right because yeah

the idea here is that like

you know it's like you're saying that

people aren't negotiating in terms of like

to

rational free actors coming together in

you know a

a a covered marketplace you know like in the olden days of like you know

aladdin or something going into the bazaar

yeah you know at the marketplace and like trading their camels or shit and then come into a bargain

is that the idea is and actually it's william petty

who is the person who made up this idea

the idea is that all these marketplaces for commodities

that they all collapse into one another that they're all reducible down to one another and that price is a standard that holds across all

and like yes

you know that so the idea of the

that it's a standard of all people's activities everywhere and that the all these places are interchangeable

through time and space

i mean that's not exactly like that you know

that that's setting a universal stanard for people's behaviors that you know controls

how societies form

so kind of semi related to that

um this is like a really broad brush kind of tough question but

what do you think is the real origins of

uh what is called cybernetics in the twentieth century like going even all the way you know you can go as far back as you

i mean not too far but obviously like in the context of early modernity in european we just looked we looked at this like a lot

um we have a cybernexs episode that we did but we haven't like fully

crack that nut because it's like norbert wveener is like the guy who comes up with the term cybernetics it's ye

h you know the idea of regulation like cybernetics it

that's the root of the of the word like that's its earlier origin is actually refers to like steamship regulators like of a steam engine

mhm so the i mean the whole idea of is that it's like a self regulating system

that uses a feedback mechanism

it's really bit based on all the hyposthasis of all these like metaphors and biology

and yeah the idea of homeostasis right that

they take that idea and they kind of like they hypostasize it into

uh in

the idea of society right they they'd reimagine

all social activity as being kind of an organism right

and

you can follow this whole trend going back a really long way at the term organism

that that the origins of that word

go back to the the

english financial revolution that i keep talking about that's sort of the crazy thing

if the the political economy episode that we did

his

but i was researching all this for like two months just going like fucking crazy

looking at like the history of the royal society and shi because

if you go back too

the words that saudi that's exactly the context

of where

the term organism comes from right

it's actually comes from i think the first usage of it is by a royal society member

named john evelyn in a book that he wrote called silva which is about like

uh forestry right and about uh

you know i

planning out

the use of

the england's like timber reserves in order to you know maximize like shipbuilding

right

mmhmm

and it's like this is from like the seventeenth century that's whrely theok term organism starts coming into play

and you know the organism in the its original use

h usage

just means

a you know a self organizing system

right

a self organizing process

so then when you get into like the twentieth century and you have

cyber connects people and systems people

and they're throwing around the word organism the and saying like society is an organism

or veno

all they're really saying is to go back to the seventeenth century

is that

you know this this uh

complex self organizing system is a complex self organizing system they don't even realize that like

the way that the the

they're using the word doesn't even make sense because it's just basically referring back to itself in the thing that they're trying to define because they don't even know its origin

yeah

i mean that that idea of the organism is like where cybernexs like flows from i think like historically and then in the twentieth century

you know it's the cybernext comes from

especially like in world war two

to it comes from the coordination efforts and science with the military

and operations research

and in you know

then ever bush

and the mit radiation laboratory

and the manhattan project and the office of

scientific research and development o s r d

and that's where like cybernext comes from that's what like norber ofner like worked for

right is that he worked on

you know automatic gun systems that's where his whole idea of like cybernext comes from is

it he was trying to develop these gun computers right for any aircraft

up

you know turrets or artillery guns

and that in order to target those at

incoming enemies

aircraft

is that you would need to have this like feedback system because

the guns would have to a themselves taking into account the actions of the pilot that was trying to avoid the guns

mhm so he was like trying to develop like this algorithm

to um

you know target so that the gun computers could

could do this becausd they

they could take that into account and target the movements of the pilots as the pilots were like

rafing back and forth like trying to avoid

the the gun turrets

and so that's like the genesis of cyberneics like in actual

like you know

the form that norbert veener

like lays out in his book cybernet is that that's where it actually comes

wow okay um that's interesting

now to go even deeper this is kind of something i have briefly talked to logo about

um

do you think that

i don't i'm not speaking in terms of cause you like what caused it but do you think

the the kind of distinctions that

enabled the possibility of

something like cybernetics

mean and the things like the organism

uh

do can do we trace its kind of real origins in some kind of

shift in the metaphysical view corresponding to

a guess protestantism

some or some of the kind of uh religious changes that led uh leading up to it

like m

i guess uh

i guess i mean to say it's very tough to talk about like the origin of for example modernity because

modernity itself reveals something about

history in the first place right

but still we do find that

in the beginning

there's thousands and thousands and years of years of history and then suddenly

at this decisive period something really changes and then

something kicks off

so for me

ih a lot of the time i spentd is to try and understand what that was like because

you know i'm always of the view that

some there is something

new and unique about modernity a complete change of some kind well actually if you want to read a really good essay i was recommend not to recommend you too many

things to readause you're busy on your own and

reading other things but

one good essay

the you could check out i like is willhelm delthies

essay that he wrote on like the the history of the lightenment

mmhmm

and it's about like alignment his uh his geography right and so

i know i agree with you what you're saying and that's the thing about historicism

is it like you can't

there's no universal historical perspective from which to judge different eras you know

so eve when we're talking about like

trying to understand the formation of modernity

like we're trapped within the horizons of like understanding it from their perspective

yes

the historical mode which like we're trying to describe so it's like

you know it's

um

this very like self recursive like looping process that goes back in itself that you can't obtain

like yeah understanding

independent of that like historical

mode so

that's thes one thing to keep in mind but then the transformation that specifically you see happening

it really takes place with

voltaire

right involunteer wrote this big huge lone book

called the

his essay on universal history so what you're talking about the distinction of modernity like historically

it

in that idea of universal history is like the key thing

mm yes

universal history has to do

with like

you know understanding

the enlightenment right that's what voltaire was writing about understanding like the enlightenment era

like culturally and like spiritually like as a subjective idea like understanding the history of that idea

not as a chronology of like

physical political institutions like legal institutions but understood trying to

tell the history of an idea

right

and so before

the you know seventeenth century eighteenth century

that's what history was it wasn't

the history of an idea

or like a culture the history of a society

it was a lineral

a literal

like physical chronology

of like actual

physical institution

and so universal history is what

you know brings about that change

and that's like what is characteristic about

the way

that you know modernity sees history

and the way that modernity sees history is how it distinguishes itself from other eras which is what makes it like come into being

as something opposed to you know

other periods of time you know what i'm saying

yeah yeah

m

interesting

um

ya it's like uh

i don't know it's very hard

not t

see everything in terms of like

in terms of the kind of perspective when you do all the research that you do for example

do you you ever think of it in terms of light

it's leading up to something

that has yet to

exist or kind of come in to being i don't think so i mean i don't really

think you can look at it in that way is just

and

you know people always get very upset because people want to change everything yeah yeahyeah you know they're always like what does it matter if you're just like learning stuff it's like this how is that going to like change everything

it's like i don't really want to change everything and

you know it's not like that's that's not my responsibility to do and i think that change even furthermore like per

like you know dielectrical materialism and

and m sociology of knowledge and these these modes are

yeah

you know they come about like sociology and like marxist thought in like the late one nineteenth and twentye early twentieth centuries

that those are like probably the

the models that i hear most closely to in terms of actually

how i would think about

change it's like chang isn't happening through lif

action yeah yeah it's not like voluntary

i mean that's exactly what you get like jan that whole the capital riot thing in the january that's exactly that was

you can see like the whole problem with that mindset and how that played out

because it was basically just the dumbest people in the world

who were convinced that they were going to like

we're going to go act and we're going to go change things

and then they just like not only they got totally exploited

by you know forces that they didn't even understand

into basically just being patsies and you know that's alls in this game and then being used to justify other people's agendas and they had no idea that that was even going on because they just walked right into it

because they were just like you know naively

convinced that they could act and like make things

changed in some way that they didn't even understand

well a lot of people oftentimes will reproach me and they'll just be like

what is what what is your plan what are you going to do like what chang you know it's like i

people are really looking at it the wrong way in the first place like a

real change does not happen

by means of

someone with a plan you know what i mean

that makes sense and if you're going to go change like

the politically anything like even if you could do that what would that's not going to actually change any spiritual

or like subjective qualities of modernity right

even if you even if you were empowered to go and like

be the speaker of the house for a day or something like what would you actually fucking do

like nothing like there's nothing you can actually do to

that it's a

process where people are getting very confused about

two separate things

where they think that

politics is

you know the

the mechanism through which

uh you know social harmony

and uh community and truth and beauty and all these o they think that politics

is what controls that

but it doesn't

and that's the illusion that people follow that misleads them into you know acting like

idiots about

you know these stupid pretend political debates all the time so you get

this whole

you know thousands of people on the internet and all these stupid bred tube people you know

who are pursuing this

they having these stupid debates thinking that they can like

you dot make exactly that kind of change

politically if they just have the right ideology

but the whole thing about ideology is ideology is fake

ideology is inherently an illusion

it like mystifies

the the actual underlying

a material relationships of things ideology is not something you want to have you should not want to have ideology

you know you should be using a critical

you know methodology like

critique

in the true sense to

uh you know dispel these illusions of ideology

because that's the you know that's the whole c you know that's what marxism is i don't understand

because to me that's just so simple

what if you go read the german ideology it's like

what's not to understand but then to get into all these debates and

stupid shit that people are talking about online

it's like they they think the ideology is just like this thing that you have to have the perfect ideology

and if you just move your opinions around

and make sure that you're

your opinion about the

you know this racial issue is the socially correct one

and this economic issue is more correct and you can just tweak it all and then you have the perfect ideology and if you do that

then you've like saved the world or something it's like it's nonsense

yeah i mean um

the band tub phenomenon is interesting because you can also tell that

it has exhausted i mean it's it is on the decline

already because biden was elected in

the era of trump is over right so their whole kind of

reason for existing is gone

what how you know i mean logo always says that

uh that

but i didn't is like

day

you know that after trump that people just didn't want to have a president so that's why they gave us yeah ps' of like not having a president and everybody was burned out on having a president

true

n

yeah it is true it is a that is actually a good way of putting it yeah

because i i always feel like you know i

he does he barely even exists to me so

yeah i mean i definitely he i definitely don't notice his uh existence

often but um

no i i g i think um

yeah and an interesting thing is that uh

it's also a very ominous atmosphere right now in america though like you know it's a very kind of um

how should i put it it's kind of like this moment where

something has happened but

it's almost like you know in marxism how

first there' is a change in the

the forces of production in then

the relations of production catch up

and it's kind of like that or there's a change in the base in the superstructure it doesn't catch up yet and it's kind of what happened in america like

feel like that's what the discourse like that's what the discourse is really that's

purpose

yeah right it's od to make

to keep

the

you know public perception in uh step with that change

right

and so

people always think that having these stupid like

twitter debates about like every fucking thing that happens in the news

they think that that is like productive in some ways

but really i see that is just like the ultimate trap of like

that's exactly how the

you know the new status quo and the different changes that have happened

that's exactly how they're you know normalized and justified and legitimated

yeah so yeah you know it just makes everybody miserable having stupid debates online about nothing

and just acting like they matter and the you know if you talk about the news cycles like people think they're engaging in this heroic

yeah you know

heroic battle of

you know expressing their opinion

and like having the discourse but really

the discourse itself is like the exact

thing that makes it

so that

the the underlying changes

are legitimated and like

you know

permanently installed

yeah i mean um

there's also this kind of little stuff about like the great reset and all that stuff but

i don't know my view of the great reset is basically like a

it's a coat

like i i think the

people in power want to do this but they're too incompetent

and they're not actually able to what do you think

yeah i don't really have much of onm

faith in them

uh that like

maybe like a good

a great reset would be a good thing

in the sense that you know if

we could use basically our society is

failing

and comparison to ase like china that's the whole thing with china is that they actually have a society that can do stuff like that

but the whole mode of how we've come to you know function

in the twentieth century

is just like it's

it's like on its last legs so we can't actually

uh bring about

change on that massive of a scale as much as we may need to

so i don't really have any faith in their ability to do it

and

m

you know

it would be good if we could

you know make

uh

change like that

under a new mode of culture or something that could

coordinate society and like you know more

a

you know just way

and bring about a way to address like some of our

most

you know pressing issues and the things that actually matter the most but we're not going to do that

as long as like people are having online debates and stuff and living in this fantasy world

and like we can't really rely on

you know ur elites or whatever to lead us

because they're all in competent and the you know

it's just like it's a total shit show so i have like no faith in it at all

like i'm ot

i'm not holding thaty breath for anything

i think one of the big turning points in how people like saw things was really that epstein

stuff and i think

it was kind of around that same time that i started to

notice

uh urine ads kind of m

work more because

i don't know it just the kind of atmosphere set the tone

but

in general do you think that there's really like a genuine in the works you guys have been doing

a real genuine element of justic

real conspiracy

you know like a

of

elites in power

yeah uh it depends on what you mean by conspiracy it's just conspiracy is like a totally false

you know that

the way that people the

the concept of conspiracy that they use is like

that

idea of the capal right yeah yeah

it's like this idea that there's like a room

where like the most

powerful people are and that they are a secret society

and that they are

planning things out and you know making a plan for everything and that they are all go then going and doing their part of the plan and that it's going to have a big effect

but in't know that's not

the only way that you could describe how a conspiracy works but that's what everybody means by the word conspiracyright yeahy

but like you know even the idea of a secret society or a conspiracy that's like a sociological construction right

and one thing that you know if you want to go read

um

you can go read the secret society

right by uh

you know

these these earlier like sociologists if you go back to like the nineteenth century

um you know max veber's friend was a

you know the sociologist who like wrote this

h car what's his name

now i'm getting mk my throats getting dryer cover steve here

but what's what the what's it name i

me just look it aut

y but pob what is that

ah der im

on in my my library here no no it's simol simbol simbol

simol has a book it's called the secret society that you can go check out where

he does the sociology of the secret society and talks about works but

you know it

the point that he makes in his sociological writings and about something like the secret society as an idea that

you know when we talk about

a

yeah

that his

historical ideas too and how those are wrapped up in the the historical modes of understanding that we use to try to like interpret them

the same thing applies to these sociological ideas like a secret society

right

n

you know we need kind of like a post

a

cabal view or model of a conspiracy

and that's kind of like what i feel me and do more on the show

on our shows that

we try to like

go in more into that direction of actually like decoding

uh like sociologically

like the social relationships and structures

that are the

you know working to carry out these so called conspiracies a not really conspiracies

you know it's just that

this is it's a quic way of coordinating between all these you know top businessmen the rockefellers and the whitney family and stuff

uh that

at least causing them to come together it's not like they have a bad idea

in their minds it's like

you know

the these guys aren't evil

geniuses they're not super villains it's not like gjames bond where they're

they have a self consciously evil conception of like what they want to do and they're sitting down in a room and they're saying like

we want to control everything

and we're going to like enslave humanity blah blah blah

is that they actually think that they're acting in like a very good way in on behalf of the world

and that they're trying to like promote international trade

and they're trying to promote like monetary unions and that their belief

and this comes from like world war one

right is that their belief is that in the inner war years and that

at the end of world war one you had the paris peace conferences failed and you had the league of nations fail

and that the great depression happened and then what how di people respond to the great depression

all these different nations they put tariffs into place right and those tariffs

that economic protectionism

it collapsed world trade

and so all these national domestic businesses in all these different countries

is that they couldn't export the goods that they made anymore so they had to like lay all their workers off and then that caused the great depression

and then you know that led to world war two

because that whole the whole

inner war economic order broke down

and so

when you get into the post war

era of like then

breton woods and the united nations and the world bank

that that is all

the targeted at

basically preventing that from happening again

right

so in their mind the people who are like

these world federalists who are trying to

you know control everything and like manage the whole world is that

they're doing that in this you know through these economic institutions

and

you through this

program of development right and you know they're going to

make world bank loans to third world

undeveloped countries that are going to allow those countries to

tolop economically

and that

wages are going to go up in those countries as a result

and that jobs are going to be created and that those countries are going to become more politically stable and that

you know edge the education systems in those countries are going to improve

and that like

they have this whole

theory about how all these things are going to stack up on top of one one another

and that

you know the world market is going to be a vehicle of like world peace

and so in like the minds of these different people like nelson rockefeller or whatever

is that they say they see themselves as pursuing this goal and they see it as a good thing

and i think even if you talk to like a lot of normal people

could you know that they would

probably agree with a lot of aspects of this

like you know

uncritically is that they would say like

you know it's good for economic development to happen in thir world nations and

you know even like a wholl the democratic party rhetoric and like n g o s and all this stuff is that that's what it was all designed to do

so

that's like in my mind what the conspiracy is but it's not like a secret conspiracy

it's a very public it's for open and this agenda is totally fully stated by the people who believe in

so like why is hillary clinton like she's like an evil schemer

behind the the

uh you know the

in some closed boardroom with her little people and she's like scheming out how to gain control

it's like i don't really think so i mean i think that she's like personally just like

you know

you know a shitty person but i think in her mind

that like she believes that

you know she's carying forward

a you know international peace and that this is what america is designed to do

you know in her mind it's not like america

uh in uh

the point of america is to preserve this whole structure

and right and if you preserve that structure that's good for america because america

historically like since the end of world war two is on top of that structure and benefits the most from it

because it's like the enforcer of that structure

so it her mind like pursuing this agenda like globalism and stuff

like as opposed to what people on the right think

they igined her as like scheming and she's like i want to destroy america in exchange for this globalism

yeah that's not how it is at all like she's

pursuing globalism

because that's like the policy that's best for the united states historically

and it you know it um

no it makes sense it's like and it really makes sense that how things work is that

you have a very

bague floating good aim and that and the pursuing

apparent pursuing of which is what reveals all of the materials

and objective contradictions

but

i think the conspiracists

very deep suspicion

and you can tell this in the diversity of conspiracy theories about it

is that

things are at such a great scale that at some

top top level

there has to be this kind of a

some type of self aware

i'm of conscious articulation of what it all of a conception of like what it all is

that goes

ah

deep at the level of like you know i don't know renaissance occultism or kind of some kind of mysticism like some there's been this kind of preservation of this this

um

a colt change

which is responsible for them the modern world as we know it like a

the reason why the world

is the way it is

but this is not what i necessarily believe but i think this is know i know you're saying it's like yeah in that that is just saying like i guess

sarcastically just trying to like get on what i just said like organized crime think they're the good fellows

or i don't know if that's what they meant but i mean to respond to that

yes they do yeah

you know that's how a a

you know a

we have a false idea of unitary sovereignty right that there's like the

that all of america's like sovereignty is endowed in like joe biden or something that's not true

is that like you know obviously sovereignty shared between a lot of different parts of society and a lot of different agencies within the government

right that's what people mean by like the quote unquote deep state it's not they missed people mystify all these things and they can't understand them

but in my mind it's like

you know it's much clearer

than that in that

there is like a national security council

in

that that's what the national security council is is that it's

an attempt to fuse together the fragments of sovereignty held

state department and the intelligence community and like thepartment of defense

and like the president's office

and each of those

parts they hold a part of our sovereignty

and so the national security conference council in the

you know historically that's exactly the purpose it served is to like act as a way to bring those

those shards together

but even like with the mafia i mean absolutely

that you know that's what how the mafia like starts is as

basically providing a police function and a security function to like immigrant communities in the united states

because they weren't being protected by police and so you know that's why you know the mafia is like

you know a shadow state in that sense or you know in italy

it was just the actual state

i mean you know it's not necessarily just like

yeah

scarface or whatever going back to like the early n

twentieth century

i mean really it's like this was the state of the immigrant communities that was like imposing justice and like maintaining order

in like these marginal communities that weren't

you know that were ignored by the police and justice systems

yeah they deceive themselves as something good

do you yourself ever suspect

like rea because i know you you you just taken so much information

do you

because this is really what like h

this is like what is

people want to hear right

not necessarily what's true but it's just like what people find so interesting is like

do you suspect any kind of

eccentric kind of accult

belief

at

uh the level of this kind of rockefeller's and ford foundation type people i hate no i don't i hate people who are going on this whole thing of like this is the satanists the satanists

yeah no

no no not not necessarily saziness but likeh let's say likel alk alc

alchemy or something like this you know what i mean i think that's all such bullshit like the jeffrey upstein is a state in this tedophile and the global

you know pedophile leap in there conducting the rituals to state and the if you look at the actual

me

historical look at like john foster dulles right

mmhm you know john foster dodlls was a fuckin

a protestant

right and he was legitimate is legitimately very sincerely

uh you know um

a protestant modern

right

is there

you know he was he was like presbyterian like very genuinelys like father was a

the preacher

you know it

if you look at what he was actually doing and going to all these

you knows

echumenical like prottant conferences and like engaging in you know the whole protant community is like

his whole idea for like the united nations and everything was like a

you know

came out of theological discourse that was happening that was

you know as part of the ecumenical protestant movement in like the inner war year

that was all

completely genuinely very spiritual religious like protestants like he wasn't like

baking

like i don't know why people how people can think stuff like that

like the what they think that like the dulles brothers and like all the rockefellers and all these people that they

you know we're all just

fakers that

you know pretending to have all these religious sentiments or

uh you know humanitarian sentiments and that

i don't think so at all i think that those beliefs are all genuine and that's you know

ya i and i think its that

and i think a lot of it originates in the counterculture with like this kind of new

um

interest in people like crowley and

this uh psychedelic kind of culture which itself is a

i personally find a little bit spooky the psychedelic kind of thing but

i think the another reason is because people saw how among the media

people who were in media power were kind of seem like they were

interested in this kind of a

uh stal lima and all this kind of stuff

yeah

you know i don't i think that's all it's just

you know it has to be stressed that it's such bullshit i mean alister croley was just like you know

he was an intelligence agent as well and yaes he

all of these later like in the one nine hunentred century like theosophy yeah yeah yeah likekult movements there own scams

like they're not you know come on that's the whole point of them

is that theyre they're just scams that these uh

people were exploited by right they're not like real things

um

and i don't think the elite like holds them i think that those ideas are actually for

if anything

like the lower classes and likey like it's to manipulate people

it makes sense yeah

yeah because if you actually look at it

with like a lot of the psychedelic stuff is that

you know i

you know new world humanism and like eastern spirituality and like

new consciousness and stuff like that

it like the one nine hundred sixty s is that that

you know uh

it's like a cover or like a version of

kind of the more mainstream

like rational beliefs of like world federalism right

the wave

you know getting stupid people

to believe in

your agenda of likeight

we need you know global economic union so that we can survive like climate crisis

right

yeah like economic coordination so that we can like s you know do this and this and

you know overcome like the

that

you know scarcity of resources and overpopulation and things like that

it's the same stuff but you know it gets sold back i think of anything by a

a lot of kind of kooky groups

to you know

stupider people

as you know it's kind of like a psyoup in that sense but so here's the kind of um

question i have

but there's a lot of evidence of well actually i mean mean are probably going to do show about this because there is a lot of weird stuff that goes on with like

the guy who came up with the idea of plant consciousness you know and like

all these people they worked for a

like the remington rand computer corporation and they had like a special research division that was interested in like all this new age shit

and then like even on like the early internet like the

arpenet and stuff is that they had a lov

kind of kookier new age stuff that was being done alongside that

and but i think that like that's what

you know

was going on historically is that

you know it's it's uh

a way to just sell back

those beliefs like world federalism and stuff

and

different kinds of

but

basically marketing packages for these different demographics that you know

to appeal to them

right it's just advertising of any

you know another question i have is you mentioned

how late

the belief of these kind of big visionaries is a genuine one

when it comes to the post war anti communism do you think that this was

resulting from a genuine kind of ideological

thing or was it kind of object

was that

it's all it's all manufactured

i mean the

like the whole idea of the cold war is like was made up during the cold war

you know if you think about it like the cold war is a narrative

of history that says that

you know that the soviet union and the united states that these are the two global powers and that they're having this like battle ands being conducted through all these different avenues and that

blah blah blah blah blah

and like that's just a

a narrative that was imposed

on history like going back to the forty's it's actually walter lippman

who comes up with that and he wrote a book called the cold war

that's why we think about that period of history as being the cold war

s walter litman wrote a book

that

said that that told the american public

this is the cold war now

there this is what's going on

and he i mean i don't know if that's

too fine of a point to come across but if you see what i'm saying is like yeah

but to what end this was was this manufactured

i think the big you know

the big one is that stalin

pulled out the hea of breton woods that he didn't go along with it right

hm they had made all these concessions to like stalin and been negotiating like

bretton woods

and to get the soviet union's participation for a re long time

and then like at the very last minute like at the conference

stalin is like no

he's like i don't want to do this and he just like walks away

right

ah

that's a really big thing because it goes into this whole idea of what i was just saying about like international

like you know trade and financial coordination

is that

that's why you know the soviet bloc has to be

separated

and like

you know exclude it

that's the basis of it because if you're not part of the economic order

o they get set up by like breton woods

and like all the post war

economic agreements if you

pull out of that

you become like we know like they say today a rogue state

right so ah you so instance of being a state outside of that system

is a threat to that system

so from that

yeah it justifies then

you know doing some kind of embargo or blockade

of these states wh are not participating in this system

because this system is you know

international law

so if you're not

following international law you're a criminal rogue state

and then that justifies you know

the imposition of economic sanctions of blockade of

you know making an exclusionary zone

that you know you're not allowed to participate in international trade if you're not willing to follow the rules

a what you know that's what happened to the soviet union that's the whole point

so it's almost like there's a direct continuity between

the post war soviet union

um and to the kind of rogue states of the twenty first century like iraq and libya and

yeah i think the logic of it is is exactly the same not that

you know every state that follows that path is the same but like it sid the reasons anything is like yeah you know

certainly

uh you know every case is

there's lots going on with these i mean

did

different motivations the leaders may have for not participating in these economic systems

they may be different but

really that's the logic of it like internationally speaking in terms of

the whole doctrine of global development and you know global trade

is that like once you stop participating in the system

you become like an economic

really you know international criminal in a way

because you're you know

you you are you can't participate in this

free trade of the world

without following these agreements that the whole world

you know signed on to

right and america is

you know governing this world trade system and the dollars the reserve currency and if you don't follow that

you're a threat to that you're like you know you're a fugitive

i remembered one of the last speeches stalin gave was basically like

the old banner of kind of bourgeois riights

of like free speech and you know all that has been tr

set aside and trampled on

and it's kind of true also in terms of this rise of the breton woods era where it's like

the old kind of paradigm i guess i don't know actually if it's really old of like

national sovereignty and self determination and kind of

right is completely trampled over and it's a

countries are forcefully integrated into this

the global system libya was bombed by obama

yeah

yeah i mean

but i mean i'm so i'm sorry to cut you off i try to message you on on discourse oh sorry i got start wrapping up i ok sorry about that i haven't i didn't have just soord ok oh yh no no i really enjoyed

talking i really enjoy talking me i don't want to cut short but i got a coule things i got

oh yeah yeah i understand

thank you so much for coming on it was really an honor and hopefully the next time you come on we'll have a

we'll have ed as well

yeah i would love that too i'll be happy to do it again and thanks

thanks a lot to you i mean i really appreciated the opportunity to come talk to you and

talk about shit that is a little bit more interesting so

you know then everyone else is talking about so

thanks a lot man thanks

genuinely was

great fun

great man okay i'll see you around

you too have a great one you to

thanks

um alright

oh wow guys what do you think

super cool

super cool talk

yh the reason i' be a little tired though is 'cause

i took that

you guys saw last night i took that um

that gummy and it's just like

for some reason it still has me a little bit

out of the loop ior tired a little bit

yeah

that was super cool

it's going to be a long youtube video

h it was like two hours or something

what

yeah that was super cool guys yeah that's that's cont bot you can find

is podcast

well you say is just go on a twitter i think it's on a twitter it's kb ultra zero

um

and his podcast is the soudeau

doxy a podcast

and you can go in you can go to that podcast and you can listen to him and ed's

um

super interesting

research

on one second i got to take a phone call one second

sorr guys that was a gim that was calling me because there was an issue of like membership

and they were calling me and i had to like

there theyir clothes basically so is to sake the call

i just updated them with fucking payment information

ah that's why

it took so long

but

yea

i need it light payment

k is read it down or something

okay guys apparently also another thing apparently today i'm not going to be able to talk about

mccafey

because

the surfce something happens to them

so i can't talk about my cafe apparently

um

yeah i don't know what's ab with that

whys wet it down

what's up with that

is read it down

dos you want to check the red it

looks like it's down

sorry we couldn't load posts for this page what

what is up with that

not for you

yeah it looks like they delet just read it

it deleted read it

apparently

seems like the only reasonable explanation

i'm kidding

it's probably just fucking down

but i don't know why

ah man

ok guys miss you question

have any of you been experiencing insomnia

recently

because i know someone else who is as well

what is up with it

why has there been a fucking surgeon insomnia

k why is the folking red it not working i'm getting pissed

read it

look at this shit

what is this oka this works

we're going to re fresh it because apparently i'm not logged in

there's no other information

wall street bets is down too

it's too hot it's not hot out where i live it's fk in raining

this is crazy with the thought

the weather sucks dude

but literal i'm not what am i going to do i can't tan i'm going to have to travel because for the next week

it's gonna be fucking stormy i'm just gonna drive somewhere else

it's literally thunderstorming all for the next

bucking seven days

it's going to be storming

i'm going to florida dude

i'm going to fuck in florida fuck that

ok anyway

this fucking rddit is not working

avoid the condos

fox

i really a disappointed

do unserf dot unserf

what is this what is that going to check some of the ready

bad mouse explains why he left whos bad mouse is he banned on wwitch is if he's banned on shich we can show him why the fok is it not working i don't under

tands been down for the past forty five minutes ok we're going to do something else then besides check the read it

there's been some videos i've been wanting to watch

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i'll just go grab the english copy

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quoted poky main oh guys by the way

i'm going to be debating destiny again friday i'm going to be going on a panel

with a few other people friday and i'm going to be debating destiny

tomorrow wait friday is tomorrow yeah tomorrow

that's going to be tomorrow yeah

that's why i got to make sure i sleep tonight

let's see the destiny thing though

what you're talking about

equipped

tweet quoted

oki main

what

check it out

is this the double ironing room because this is how exactly how streamers feel how pepole

ink streamers feel

you look like

shit

today

i don't know

not really for me it's not doesn't really work like that for me

but maybe destiny

but yaes some streamers do feel this way

not me

why ises the law if fucking china' is committing genocide then so is canada destiny

um

ea

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don't be mad at the mirror if you're ugly guys remember that

live nmit nicakoat thsuania

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i would precas would be

a regal gotor aal of congress

you got s three

i was nkish to like you know americans invented this trope it's called

and you hang black people so basically

it like every time we question the soviets about human rights

they would point out what's going on here and it's a yeah because you're a fucking hypocrite

focus on your own fucking issues before you go

you know it's bossing other people around

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appreciates w l thmslegain issues

s you se si but chday that we

there you go again mr president what about it you w no what a gret to ot medicarek over medicareck

but then how what else is your ok if not america

thank you so much for the sub i you know i forgot to thank some subs

sa me go online

hedkockkoo thank you for the subdude

um depression hold on sorry

merur thank you for the gifted sb david thank you for the gifted sub do appreciate it

a spiros thank you for the sub dude

carei in tanky thank you do thank you so much

um

i think that was it for today

but

yet if not america then what is your standard for fucking judging another country like i

what's gonna be your standard for fucking trina

speak down on these countries you know i don't understand what's your fucking standard then you know

what is your standard

credits back up

if you're lying you get bged

i'm kidding

this is some

it's not back up shut up

always back up

let's watch this really quickly

this is the anniversary of

the great patriotic war in color oh you know what

i don't think i can show it

i don't think i can show it yeah it's probably to

yeah

glad i caught that one

you know i mean you can you can show you can play call of duty where you're slaughtering people and literally bullets or you can you know you can play g t a and you know do all

but oh that's ok you can't oka i understand

i see how it is

no use in complaining about it

okay

see

ah a cafe i'm going to ignore that one

you got that

is there nothing new on the fucking redit

really there's nothing new

wow ok too has a video on the ethiopian revolution

but

yeah there's no there's nothing in the queue

is the contot discussion going up on who tube yes

the ethianopian revolution explains

wow it's a twenty minute video

nice

go check out a tose video guys

we'll shake it on

not i mean uh

not now but when you get the chance check it out

s cont bk neo conti and i just think he's contian

i don't think he call himself neo contiin

i don't think like

it's kind of redundant to call it neal

um

in the news

we have the caafe business going on

um

i don't think there's any other

politics

hold on

and make sure i got everything

no okay other than that let's get right into

something i wanted to show you guys

our watts together

ready guys

ready

oh so there's too good ok

are guys

let's get ready

ur

igins yeah

are vegans

aloud

goold bevegans be respected

okay

let's

get into it

no

you sure ok my non ironic take on veganism is that is fucking stupid

that's my non ironic tap

wis and li

agriculture can reach every corner of the globe

how would that affect

if at all

your views or your

inm i going to be judged

if i say not at all

i became begin

because i could no longer

think about

eating

something that was once living and breathing the primary thing that keeps me begin is just always the animal liberation the idea that we are trying to

push

our

yes

animal liberation

respond to word video

oh i don't care about yarin broke dude i don't know the fuck that is i don't care about them

i don't care about him i really don't care about him

on to others

that stereotype i've experienced the most hunting of the very hard concept

for people to understand i am in texas it's a lot more acceptable

even though be wanmed to hunt people

still

you know have a really hard

that cluds

i feel like a lot of people think

vegans are more effeminate people will question your sex they genuinely are

they literally are w

please show me a fucking example otherwise

quality oftent times i grew up in a ro village living off the land the way we live is a total s

back

to the animals and i think there's so much that people do not know about indigenous culture

is she a hunter

b the indigenous woman is a falcon hunter

so vegans what do you have to say about that h

what's you all got to say about that

because they're all woke people right

my name is danny clear and begin and i'm ultiy

hi my name is don marvan

i've been a vegan for coming on six years now

i'm a freelance

photographer and i recently moved to the l air

my name is nina i'm twenty four i've been

coming up on five

now and i'm a

floor

oh

hi my name is britney i'm

quite condome from alaska

guy

a

first generation college graduate in a

school and

n area and i'm currently on a road trip visiting friends to learn who's

number

i'm carlely i'm from texas i'm a wife i also do sales in mark

i would not walk forward i would be the one guiy to not walk forward

i do not give a shit about animals

you know that

i don't give a shit about fucking animals

it's funcking it's god's job to care about animals

not me

animals

take care of yourself

it's not my fucking job to take care of you

you gott to take care of myself fuck animals dude

one of the animals ever helped me

that day i'll care about animals

is one of fucking

lyon comes and helps me

in my time of need

yah why should i give a shit about animals

why should i give a shit about dumb animals

is that surprising to you two hundredver i don't give a shit about animals i don't

im i would love to hear what

but you wouldn't abuse your pets

because it would be my pet

it's a pet

that's your pet

why would i care about animals th

i yeah i would love to hear

who's going to save the bees

the bees can go fuck themselves dude fuck bees

all they do is sting me and fuck in

whatever

fine maybe they can do something to make sure

honey can continue but

don't act like you care about bees i don't fucking care about bees

maybe i care about honey i care about fuckin

you know that

the world not going extinct but i don't care about bees

i kill every bee i see

in gta

ok i'm sorry i don't know this aloud

if i see a bug

in my fucking apartment or even anywhere near me

the bug is gone

i'm not going to just let that bug be

you just gave up your right to fucking

buzz around any longer

you'll never kill honeybees their chill

no they if they're bothering me i'll defend myself fuck the honey bees

i don't give it a shit

any bee i see buzzing my way

got another thing coming

ok

hey animals if you insects

if you don't want me to fuck and do that

get the fuck out of my apartment

ers have the utmost respect for animals

i think that's a really hard thing for people to see am i allowed to go into the bees bve

in e do a lot to go near their behive

but they can come in my house

how about no bits

can i go in there behive

how would they like it if i went inside of their beehave

how can you love something when when these do these bugs pay my rent

he so golet me get this straight

do these insects pay rent

what have they done to live here

and respect something that you kill

it's just a hard

concept right

conservation is a big reason why i hunt

it not only providesod for my family as the smarter and bigger being you have an obligation to the lesser life forms

that makes no fucking sense at all

and i don't think people are smarter than fucking

o their life forms i just think they're different

no one's smart here okay

it's not like there's like a spectrum of intelligence

and humans are just on that that's such a cope that people invent it oh there's a spectrum of intelligence and humans are just on the higher end of that no they're not

there's no fucking spectrum at all a human being is qualitatively different

than a fucking animal it's not a fucking spectrum you're either human or you're not

it's not a spectrum

it's not a fucking spectrum

but i can shoot a certain number of deer each year

and that will keep that population and not heard right thing

i guess i've never really came at this conversation from like a angle of vegans

verse hunter is always vegans verse of meat eater so i understand

in a sense the

the respect you have

to what you're doing

i just know

that i could never do that and i think that for me is one of my

maybe more bigger issues it's not with vegans but it's more

people who eat meat

but don't understand un

so you're going to eat meat that the fuck up

why should i why should someone just because they eat meat they have to care about hunting

that's so stupid

and by the way that's fucking wrong

because most meat doesn't come from hunting

most meat comes from raising livestock

dude what is like shut up

shut the frok up

why should anyone have to care about hunting

ah

so just because i eat meat i have to care about fock and hunting

your betake is kind of anti human no it's not

i don't care about bees

i don't care about spiders i don't care about no animals

it was slaughtered

at a

factory but i can't just give

idea one swift

great bullet in the i was it not a spectrum

because it's fucking not

and no other apes do not have an intelligence

they're just different

they're just different

ok

you have to understand something the reason for fucking chimpanze is

don't do math

isn't because they're too stupid

it's because they're just different they they'll never care about math

chimpanzees care about fuckin

scoop

eight

screaming

yelling

and eating bugs that's what they care about they don't fucking care about dumb fucking human bullshit

ok

and mating

sometimes

barbrett dies

albert supposed to die i was one of those people that said i could never even be vegetarian like i was probably like the people that you're describing just you know not having a connection

to what they're eating i didn't think about it and then

as streaming services go i found a little doct monkey prostitutes is just human anthropomorphisation cope bullshit

buck a nat geoarrative

it would appear the monkeys are engaging in a form of prostitution now it would appear that a actually was going on those to shut the focku

stop trying to funk and cope

you're a way into understanding animals because you never will

documentary through the suggestions it chakes your life and and like i i remember i went to brunch that morning and i had like sausage and egg and like fried cheese

and then that night i watched this documentary and so that's why i'm beging because i can't support like

us

as an industry and as a populace like removing the choice from that

large of a swath of animal population

what

you think animals make choices

if animals make choices why don't they make the choice to free themselves why do they need you

this what i hate about animal liberation is cacuse the're

so

why can't the animals funck and liberate themselves then ha

that's how they think of people too they have this patronizing attitude

that you're his savior and they're going to come save everyone

look like you claim you know animal i don't know matt jay you're so fucking stupid you're the most dumb fuck in my chat

do do you know that animals are not being heartbroken and s

dying inside

every time you fart

you don't know should you stop farighting

if animals mind it n't they speak up

otherwise shut up

just like you should shut up

don't fok

just because they're animals

if there was

a solution like just the magic happens i don't give a shit about animals

until the day a goat comes and tells me otherwise that's my going to be my position matt jay

why do why does these fucking cows and goats need you to come talk shit to me

why can't a fucking cow type in my chat and tell me what their issue is then

how but they fucking do it instead of you

i'm so sick of humans

defending animals

if the animals should come and defend themselves then

skuy's part and

all the met is like

done any way that is humane with that

make you more inclined as your question

why would you treat an animal in a humane way if an animal isn't human

you shouldn't treat a cow in a humane way you should treat it in a

cowaan way cause it's a fucking cow

honestly have some normal vegan and a normal discussion you will learn about vegan position

i'm goinga eat keep eating burgers and you can't do shit about it

matt j

you can't take my burgers you can't take my shatma

you can't take away nothing from me

you can't take away mykelbab you can't take away nothing i'm a keep eating it is nothing you can do

come and try and take it

to eat me i think that you sort of get into the fundamentals of like is it humane to kill

thing i have to understand and respect and honor that like

in

it literally is

indigenous cultures you know there's many reasons why people hunt we would all be remiss if we didn't admit that you know at a time in human history like

we need gillay bugs when the who's they dude no one's going to ban all the meat

literally the world will riot

seven billion people are not going to tolerate meat being banned

ok they're just not going to no where in the world are people going to tolerate that

no and my burgers are not fucking spicy you goddamn sociopath

why the fuck would my burgers be spicy of all things

did

animal protein and animal meat to survive

but today

it's not necessarily a necessity

i was being taught at

fifty percent of your dairy products content is allowed to be pushed from the tit

if it tastes good then i don't care

zero

by an ethical hunter and again i think that's a hard and harder concept here

because trust me like her househole hunters but that's what i was i saw conservation

you know i'm a hunter guys you know my best way of hunting is that road kill you know i get in my big truck

n just drive right into a you

cannot run my truck

how is it

survival the fitness

and i saw ethical hunting and i saw wt

why would i suck a cow's tit matt j you freak

begons are trying so hard to make

to freak of fy everything

oh the gts be in the fucking like they'll get like body they'll get in like a fucking bag full of blood in the street like this is the same thing is what you're doing on's comean et me what come and eat me like

have vegans ever been able to make a point without ridiculously exaggerating everything in like

not making a stupid fuss about stupid shit like no i'm sorry it's not the same thing

i know you feel like it should be treated as the same thing

but that's just

an arbitrary logical association you made in your head

that's leaving out all the other important factors to make that equivalence

why we do it and i s

look at me i'm a pagan look at me

b my hand gohead it's the same thing go ahead bit my hand it's the same thing as what you're doing when you're eating that burger it's the same thing

here here have my baby go ahad defeat my baby it's the same thing of what you're doing when you're having a pizza it's the same thing here my baby go tok it's sut the fuck up

saw the food you know i haven't bought beef

mm

i mean in

six seven years i asked you a question that i'm kind of scared to ask and we'll see so you said that your mother like it is clearly not the same

it is clearly not the same dude it's really not

it is not

and if you think of like bambi do you ever consider the

small baby animals that you're taking their parents away

from them okay

so

b and b doesn't exist that's a disney movie if a mom is there with her

yarlings

you would never kill that mom

right you wait until she kicks them out of the house

and that's part of like ethical hunting that is like yeah no one really like you wait until the babies are kicked out

are you in favor of trophy hunting lions and elephants as well

um

guess what

how about this lowest evens

who has sovereignty over those lions and elephants

it's the african countries or asian countries themselves

they decide what happens to their elephants and lions

not you and not me they do

the whole reason why people go in fucking hunt those things from foreign countries isce they

they think that lions and elephants belong to all humans nog they don't

if there's a fucking elephant

on african soil it belongs to the african people

so far as you're concerned

have you ever seen ask yourself no i haven't

they can do whatever the folk they want that elephant to

i learned from my clinkic cousins they're from the southeast n alaska

they're the ones that invented

the fisher

it was so wide that only a full grown halibit

could get caught

it's a generational

thought you're not alley cat this is literally where it goes wrong

imagine you're a deer but she can't imagine you're a fucking deer it's stupid that's literally why we have furries cacuse people literally think they can imagine themselves as a fucking animal

you cannot imagine yourself as an animal it makes no sense

you're a human you do you will never know what it's like to be an animal you'll never know what that's like

you cannot empathize with them you cannot imagine what it would be like it is fundamentally impossible to understand anything about

what it is like

to be a deer furthermore

you're assuming dears have subjectivity which there's no evidence for do dears have southwod and subjectivity where they actually

experience things as a subject where they experience the world as a subject no they don't

so shut up

ah just thinking about

oh i need food tonight you're like

how do i make sure i protect

their natural processes when fishs are made now anything in so many of our

pre colonial traditions where

staying in balance with animals we had so many practices that prevented over hunting and the people who are living off the land who are fighting for the land are getting last priority we're not allowed

fish i was thinking of it in this sense more so i meant poaching and killing animals for the sake of killing them

if you don't give a fuck if this was happening in the united states

um

in general

in general

like

forget about like the

the consequences like just assume there would be no consequences right

assume theres no consequences

i literally do not give a fluck

i literally don't care

i literally don't care i literally do not give a fug

i actually don't care

but i don't think it's as a it could it could never be a widespread cultural practice because

that would drive animals to extinction

which would probably cause environmental problems but like in principle i do not give a fuck about animals i don't give a shit about them

there's commercial fishing we're constantly being watched and find

constantly having land taken away

oh

if you look at any community it's constantly

happening to them where they're

would you eat a dog

am it is not within my culture

but let's say i was invited

to like the yu lin festival in china

and my host it would be imminate like if you're eating dinner at their house

i think it would kinda be rude

be p i personally i don't know i don't know if i would decline it because it's like

you should have to be polite you have to respect the household

but i could just be say like religiously i can't do it

but if there's no religious restriction involved

i don't really care yeah i would eat one

i don't give a fuck

would you eat a bat

no i it's not really common that people eat bats

in china

by the way it's really not that common

it's like kind of a

from what i know it's a more of a marginal thing

um

they're told they're not allowed to do this or eat this it's all would you eat a gorilla

guys

context is everything

the extent of my dietary restriction is basically going to be religion

without that

if people there are eating something and i'm a guest

i think i would oblige them and eat what they're eating

what

i wouldn't go out of my way to seek eating that

connected i fauts likele

hold on mods can you make sure people who are talking about fucking cannibalism get timed out

and

yeah

thean

if you have a choice so where you get to get your food and where it comes from and even knowing about it

is a privilege

to have

the choice to be vegan include you know makeup and clothing and all of these things and

you know sustainable clothing for example is

top dollar if you're trying to buy it new and thrifting is great but

some people don't even have access to that and so just i think that

choice is a privilege and

what is this

you'll see what i'm seeing

what is that

do anyone know what that is

what is that

just her birth mark

one

aganism is a choice

i was born in haiti

of the poorest country in the western hemisphere in the fact that my parents were able to

leave with me when i was just like one years old into the states

like really shaped how my life

would

go

the lifestyle that i'm living is such a stark contrast

from the people down in the caribbean

i feel like i have to

talk about how begin ism especially in the states and especially in like the global west

has been totally co opted by like under you notice how leftys always say it's been co opted

every fucking leftes ask yourself this

if it's corrupted if everything's spocken corrupted

was there ever anything authentic to begin with whor are you just making that up as your fucking primordial cope and your primordial insurance policy against these companies you're just trying to extort

oh

you're not the real vegin i'm the real original vegin and then i'm entitled to shut the fuck up

you're all fake how about that i think you're all fake

i think they're all fake

ever thought about that they're all fake

going to say it by no means real beganism shouldn't be a privilege in my opinion but

it is like the world that we live in now it is

ok in what world would bevegan ism not be a privilege according to you

but i'm a real m l right

there's barely any fucking m ls in the u s to call someone a fake m l in the first place dumb ass

but no my brand has if anything that's like marxism

or socialism

my brand has never been to be the most authentic m l

whatever

so shut up

i don't know enough about being a vegan i think of it as like something that

people a magic guess how many chickens died for me

guess how many

in my whole lifetime

guess how many chickens died

for my

tastes

and cows

you will never save them

they're never coming back

they will never get justice

ever

they're never going to get justice

they're never going to

no one's going to remember them

no one cares about them

and nothing happened

you buy them in wal mart you never killed a chicken

all even better

even better i don't even have to do that

you can't stop me from eating meat you cannot stop me

you cannot stop me

i will continue to do it

you can't stop me mag ja

you can't stop me

i youa halal only know

i don't know any vegans i don't know how much money it costs

yeah a lot of people also you

from lower income backgrounds or areas they also rely on fast food and i will only eat meat when i can kill it myself why

wh literally why that's so stupid

you're not more authentic by do you aalize most fucking people

eat meat from fucking livestock that's

and the meat is sold to them

you know most people in history are not directly killing the things they're eating it's so stupid

i bet you would not be able to snap a chicken's neck yourself

your mom's choking my chicken every fucking night so i can just learn from her

and that stuff is really cheap because

as far as i understand the government subsidizes me and animal products much more than it does

vegetables when we think about someone who

house

to work a low wage job

to survive

you also have to think they're probably working

more than one job possibly

you want the easiest meals

you want the highest calorie meals because you're working and you're burning so many calories so when you're saying

why do you more plant base you're asking them to change their shopping habits you're asking them to

spend more time you asking them to and they literally they literally won't argue with her because she's indigenous

but if it was like a white girl saying this they would all be screaming at her

ses

and when you are working the hard

you you have to numb yourself youre eating to survive that is you know you see how patronizing that is how condescending that is

if this was just if this was a white guy saying all this shit

they would be all be screaming at him and like

so pissed and so angry but just cause she's indigenous she's saying that

they're they're like nodding their head and oh yeah we agree with you because they don't even see her as human

they see her as like a fuckin token

type of thing you know

different

then

choosing wy eating

totally

and it's not fair to like

ask any of those people in survival mode to completely like

shift their way of life and learn a new lifestyle and i definitely agree with that what is true of an animal that if a human would justify murdering them for animal

what

first of all animals can't be murdered you dumbass

you don't murder an animal

i'm just curious like

if

we were all born

meat is

meat is

my meat murdered your mam's pussy okay sorry

never mind

in g three centuries

is for now

the world has been globalized and like agriculture can reach every corner of the globe

how would that affect

if at all your aew he's trying to get to the art yeah why are vegans like

can't why do they want to eat people so bad

i don't have an instinct to eat people i don't know anyone who wants to eat people

so why don't vegans like throw these hypotheticals as though there's like some

definitive like burnt rant rustle like axiomatic logical framework that's the only reason we don't eat people

oh yeah yeah yeah

the only reason you don't meet people is because of this logical moral argument of that i'm going to challenge no it's not there's a lot of other reasons to

that are not even conscious reasons you know like

that the only reason it's not the only fucking reason people don't do that there's a lot of reasons people don't

reasons that can't be debated or negotiated about

so stupid

these are your

choice

in my

just because you can do something doesn't mean like

you need to you know like someone's like so what's going to stop me from eating a disabled person

if it's ethically correct why shouldn't i why would you want to do that though like isn't that isn't say there's something weird about you if you want to do that well sound what people no weird no i don't i don't think weird people should be allowed

to do what they want i just don't i think weird people should be

closely examined by society in like

i'm a conformist you know what that means i'm a traditionalist and i'm a conformist

people need to understand that you know a normal human being lives in a community follows the norms of your community

follows what's normal and follows their tradition

and you just conform to the normal status quo

of your community you know you don't have to fucking

have a satanic rebellion and question everything

ow is it at a shut up

if you're fuckin

father ate goat and your father's father ate goat and his father's father ate goat

you'll probably be fine eating goat oay

so just fuck and eat it

i feel the same way about wanting to kill animals for no rational reason

well a big game hunter wouldll tell you there is a reason and it's because it's like it proves your prowess as a hunter

and it's like a game

so they're not saying it's no reason

i don't care about big game hunting but

i ca be judg say not at all w are you going to debate perspective philosophy

on my cheat day so i can have a hamburger while i debatinghim

i genuinely carry it i

like i'm going to eat me

i don't want to say there's no reason to not eat meat

but there's maybe no reason for me not

i get it i'm feeling jusdgt i'm not judgingwy but i don't understand i'll be honest and h

i mean

like i still cry and i kill something and the love the animals but

they're still

able

like

it's ok to eat one everyone's been eating meat forever

that's true you know

lois tevin just called me anthropocentric

my anthropocentric world view

you don't think you're anthropocentric

we're fucking talking about anthroposentry

what is the non anthropocentric world view

show me a fucking

show me a foking

world view that doesn't come from humans show me one

please prove to me there's such a thing as a world view

that is not from humans and therefore human centric

and defined by human human finitude

boin its beens never been a culture

like i've never seen a fucking cow walked up to me and be like

you're stuck in an anthropocentric worldview

but i have the cow world view and you should respect my cow world view

i've never seen that before anywhere

was one hundred percent beag and you know they have shifted

their plant made in mediterranean and buddhast and they have moved toward

we culture who is one hundred percent begin

i don't think has ever existed

it sounds like it's a natural order kind of thing that's interesting to hear because i'm firmly of the belief that like we are animals

so for me ok if you're an animal the conversation's over

go live in the falalk and forest

the natural order

perspective

doesn't hold a lot of water do you guys have pets

i

but the fuct that he he just said nothing

are we animals

if we are animals

what does that even mean

what do you mean i feel like there's a pretty clear distinction between humans and animals

mean in a way we're animals

but not in the way you think

up

and in other parts of the world

what you would consider your pat

some people would eat

but that

i have a co worker who constantly spouts hippy garbage

that we should allow flies and rats in the store because humans built over their natural land

according to fucking bread tube

that's a worker who's going to have a say in controlling the workplace no thank you i do not believe in democratic control of the workplace

some people are fucking mentally ill

and should be prevented from having a say in anything

in anything

that person should never be allowed to have a say in how that workplace works

and if i owned that red srat i would fire her immediately

holy shit

sorry guys

thank god that restaurant is not work her own

because if it was

they would be dining with rats and fly

what a fuck is that

that's there i mean

i don't need my dog and need my dog you know i mean worry about

someone in china eating dogs like i you know we can all

try to make the world a better place and it's interesting though because it does kind of challenge the natural order perspective

like were do you draw right something to think

about in this conversation to because there was like where do you draw the line like there're psychotic like cannibals like

they want to like draw the line because they otherwise want to eat people

let's say there's no line do you really want to eat people

please stop

you don't have to bring up problems that you alone invented because you're the only one who invented this problem

k

i don't see a problem of me wanting to eat people do you want to eat people because i think you should be admitted if you want to eat people

i personally like

this is not a moral dilemma for me i've never

felt like i wanted to do that ever

saw some i want to eat people ok then you need to be admitted i think i think you should be admitted

because i don't see you as an sane or normal person

you dine on swine personally no i don't

is knowing that

even when we eat plants there's so many people that we're exploiting yes

the

hey i want to i want to know a question how do you draw a hard distinction between plants and animals

sensing the worlduse

plans consense

what is it

i want to know matt jay what's the difference between a plant and an animal go ahead where you draw the line

where do you draw the line between a plant and an animal

go ahead

maybe because animals feel pain

do plants feel pain

sentience

so plants are not sentient according to you

because no there isn't a hard distinction but in terms of sentience

plants do sense things so therefore they do feel pain

and plants are sentient

plants cannot feel pain that they can only react to stimuli how can you measure being able to feel pain then beyond reacting to stimuli how do you fucky know an animal feels pain did they tell you

did they tell you they felt pain

pretty sure they're just reacting to stimuli too

body

only humans can feel pain i know that but people try to say animals can feel pain if animals can feel pain why can't plants we can measure animal pain

how do you ok how do you know

plant scream

how do you animals only scream to alert other animals there's no other fucking reason

cell structure where in the cell structure did the animal tell you that it can feel pain

sorry that's just stupid oz is it mag jae

where do you draw the line between a plant and an animal

and where do you draw the line when it comes to animals

how do you measure all this shit ah you can't

no pain is definitely something unique to humans

ok

pain is definitely unique to humans

yes it is yes it fucking is you're stupid if you think otherwise yes it is

animals do not feel pain no they don't shut up

no they don't

you don't know what you're talking about

you are stupid i hope you fel stupid

please tell me you're trolling i'm not trolling they do not feel pain

they do not feel pain

they react to stimuli in a certain way

but they do not feel pain

you do not know what pain is if you think animals feel pain you do not know what pain is

do you think some animals are conscious no what is pain

pain is a measurement that is strictly only possible

in regards to your

conscious dream of subjective experience

there's no

without that there's no

you're not really feeling pain

at all

you're feeling pained because there's a deviation from some kind of fucking

baseline

no pain is not just the stimuli pain is not just the stimuli it's the conscious experience

of that stimuli which is painful

yes it does have something to do with fucket subjectivity dumb ass

the only reason you experience pain is because you're reacting to a certain

stimuli

consciously and objectively

don't fuck and feel pain in your sleep dam mass

don't feel pain in a coma

domaz

animals are conscious though did they tell you they are

how do you know they are no they're not there's no reason to think they are at all

pain is a mechan no it's not a mechanism you just got it wrong goodbye

trying to fuck and understand animals in terms of machines is retarded goodbye

you just called it a mechanism you sounds stupid i get that you learned evo psych in your college

ah

it's an evolutionary trait inherited from animals shut the fuck up

you fuckin

imagine literally ironically thinking

you don't even know what evolution means doarmask

human pain is not the same as non human pain if you ask human which is a creature capable

of

expressing pain to other humans

how do you know anything about non human pain then eh

you're acting like your fucking dog came and told you this shit

vegans have like this telepathic connection to animals we just don't have

every vegan is like doctor doolittle they're just talking to these they know so much about animals cause these animals are just

telling them everything

they're talking to the geese they're talking to the mice we're feeling pain raining di there like describing it to them

doctor dolittle mother fukers

we can measure pain in animals how

ow

god got physical pain is a pretty basal process no it's not

how can you measure it

how do you measure animal pain how

i didn't do it

i di got

i dot

pain is even subjective among humans

it's cliarly so bris fucking that's why the doctor has to ask you about the pain scale

the fuck you know how much pain you are experiencing

we can't even measure pain in humans objectively that's really what i just said

it's super subjective

animal liberation

is a cause without a revolutionary subject exactly it's for fucking white supremacists

you want to be condescending

this is a language gamesman no it's not

ok

read zuangzi the happiness of fish

stop trying to look at stop trying to cope and be like oh chinese people were ugans no they're not

that's pretty much like a proto object oriented ontology book

has nothing to do with empathizing with animals

there air experience that show that there are animals that can recognize themselves in the mirror oh youre we got the mirror test andy's it fucking means nothing

and no you

they don't recognize themselves in the mirror like a you're saying they're just reacting to the stimuli of their reflection in a certain way

why do animals need to tell people they are feeling pain to know they are fear then how do you know they're feeling pain

how do you fuck you know they are

that's my question to you

if you hurt an animal can't you see that they're experiencing pain you really can't

that's the thing you can't you will never understand animals you'll never understand why animals do the things they fucking do why don' some animals kill their children

that's a thing why do lions come and kill the fucking cubs of

they kill babies you just don't understand you'll never understand so stop trying to it's so stupid

how can we know any humans experience pain

god go you literally just said the dumbest thing i've ever heard in my whole fucking life

how can we know humans experience pain

because they say so with the falcc

because you can experience pain

and other people say that they can experience it

so you can extrapolate that they're experiencing what you experience and you can relate to it

these are easily explainable phenomena you're just dumb then explain instead of calling me dumb you bluffing idiot beitch

stupid fucking vegan

a human would kill a baby if it was starving

i wouldn't speak for yourself you crazy deranged mother fucker

what about nonverbal people

well you just deduce they can because they're human just like you

you deduce they can

daga

why do you want a fucking inflict pain on nonverbal people why do you bring devil's advocates that no one asked for or needs

and are not a problem for anyone

scientists have developed grimma skills

for mice rabbits and horses each animal displays certain physical changes

that are reliable indicate

they are not reliable indicators of pain they are indicators of reacting to certain stimuli

has nothing to do with pain

prove to us that you feel pain

i will fucking prove my cock to your mam's pussy you fucking idiot bitch

that's not the fucking point

pain is real

among humans

for completely different reasons

i don't need to fuck and prove it no one needs to fuck and prove it you fucking idiot

if i'm telling you i experience pain is literally just that all bucking pain is is an abstraction

let's leve what pain is you bucking idiot

pin is literally people saying aw ouch that hurts

pain is literally belonging to the realm of language even when it's not verbally communally caicated you're communicating it to your own head

it's very subjective conscious experience

that is a reaction to physical stimuli

why wouldn't why wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that they react to negative stimuli isn't painful

hold on

that they reactions isn't painful

who the animals

it's not reasonable to assume that

because it's a fucking mistake it's mistaking what pain actually fucking is

pain is something that

can only be relevant

re humans

for speaking beings for transcendent subjects

or

people who have a divine spark

this debate is stupid at fuck islamic scholars resolved the matter of animal consciousness over a thousand years ago

society will look back upon the phenomena of anglo veaganism as cringed thank you stalin based and very true

supertrue

why do animals want to run from fire

are you stupid

that's like saying why do animals want to hunt

they are the animeals

none of what you're saying proves any type of conscience

self reflective experience or prove any pain

animals want to animals run from fire they don't want to run from fire by the way they just do run from fire

because that's how they react to their fucking environment

like you just say why do animals survive

will clearly animals survive and reproduce themselves

that does a fucking mean they feel pain

you don't think animal i'm trying to fucking explain to you dumb ass fucking people that pain is literally not just

a nervous system reaction

pain is something that is only be measured in comparison to your conscious subjective experience

it's the way you consciously experience that stimuli

that's painful that's the pain

pain itself is not

some kind of reflex

when the come animals

experience reflexes they don't actually experience pain pain is a fucking existential

subjective thing

and papa retard in my chat keep saying

what i'm saying is dumb he has no rebuttal but he has nothing to say

yet people keep conflating distress with pain

thistress is a physical phenomenon

pain is a theory of mind question exactly

i don't think feeling pain is a conscious self reflective experience babies can feel pain

non verbal people can feel pain

gaga you don't have to be verbal to have conscious self reflective experience non primate humans can probably feel pain p yes pain is deep goaga because the thing that's painful

is the discomf the physical discomfort is in the way you consciously experience that is fucking painful

why do we all feel pain in the same way we don't

we actually fucking don't

and by the way most pain is not physical

most pain isn't physical actually

ly most pain is non physical

so stupid

and yes

non physical pain can literally have physical consequences on your fucking body so it's a real thing

there' is no such thing as a nonverbal person

yeah

the self reflective exp even helen keller was verbal but she wasn't verbal with other people

she had some kind of system of language going on in her head

the self reflective experience is easy to prove and it has been demonstrated in several

circumstances by associating a physical infliction of harm

simultaneously with a non physical visual or auditory stimuli

il was do a non physical ut

a visual or auditory stimuli when presented solely with a non physical

even without the physical discomfort

there's an emotional response the you're just assuming that

you haven't proven it at all you just saying that you you're assuming that's the case

and how i want to know how a fucking animal can experience something that's nonphysical

that's another thing i want you to fuck and explain

you animals have physical discomfort

i mean they have physical distress very clearly yes if you mean animals have a physical baseline

they do not want to deviate from

such as temperature such as

outside things penetrating their skin things like that yes they do they have a physical baseline

that they

that they subsist in

animals absolutely have a conscious experience

the biggest fucking idiot of the week

clap for the biggest dmmas in my chat

he literally said animals absolutely have

a conscious experience

heelepathic andy domas in my chat he he's experiencing a

animal consciousness

are you talking about physical or emotional pain

lially in physical and emotional pain

i like

they're not as different as you think

by the way they're not

why is it that animals placed on a gradually heating plate end up jumping off at a certain point

i literally just explained it to you

are you not fucking here

is your you have an ear problem

i literly just explained it to you

it's because they're physically distressed

and they're trying to maintain a physical baseline

as an example i every time i turn on a red light in a room and honk a horn i kick a dog eventually turning on a red light in a room and honking the horn will create an emotional and physical response in a dog

based on memory of the past experience

even if i don't icke it this time

that does not prove pain

that does not prove pain at all

how does that prove any pain

it's like b of skinner's conditioning you're associating one thing with another thing

animals do that

that doesn't mean they feel pain

you're streaming vegan shit and i got a crispy chicken

commercial this is flucking gold

a

when you're sleeping and unconscious you can't feel pain but you still react exactly

what's your opinion on pan psychism literally

the cia and the k g b were talking about it so something's going on there

physical distress from what

from my cock and your mom's pussy

have you seen elephants cry when their offspring died

shut the frocg up

blitterly shut up

ah you'll never understand we'll go do elephants literally kill shit for no reason di you see that video i don't even know it's tl wes

was really just a peaceful vegan caussell gazell or something walking around in the tall grass and elephantly came from the bushes and kill it for no reason

the elephant didn't

e it

the elephant gained nothing from doing that it liter me just charged this mother fucker

and he killed it

why did the elephant funcking do that

you will never understand you'll never understand

he has no responses or argument oh your mom co parter yes you fucking idiot you haven't fucking made an argument i've made a million arguments and after people don't respond to me then i talk about your mom you fucking idiot i've actually made arguments to back up my mom jokes you haven't made a single argument to back up your insults you fuckin idiot brain ded vegan lid bitch suck my cu

back

suck my fucking cock

is it not a reasonable inference whatsoever to you to think that some animals can feel pain no it's not

buck your cat and fuck your dog

your dog's an assole your cats an assole none of them care about you they never will

core of this i think is just having

i'm not a vegan you dumb unt you're just being the dumbest fuck

you keep call ok calm me down one more time

without proving it i'm going to give you an opportunity to either come and v c or make an argument or you're bann forever you fucking pussy make a fucking argument make one argument to prove it to back it up call me dumb one more time go ahead

one more time

one more time

i'm going to give you a chance to substantiate it o kay

so the pussy comes in my chat

i give him five billion opportunities

to actually make an effort to substantiate his claim that i'm dumb and he can't because he's a persy he's a bluffing persy he has nothing

the fucking has nothing

he has nothing

they're all bluffers they have nothing they call me names they can't substantiate it

he just wants to feel good about himself cause he knows i'm ripping his mind a new ass hole i'm fucking his skull fucking his mind

and he's coping

stupid bitch elephants killing things for fun doesn't thisprove that they have emotions

if animals have emotions it is on a level so different that you cannot apply human morlity or anything to them

ok

you don't we don't even know what emotions are so shut up

just because animal just because elephants maybe have some kind of pro primorial emotional group may be going on maybe doesn't fucking mean you can empathize with them or understand them or put yourself in their shoes in any kind of fucking way because you can't

so where's the line gogga you always ask where the line is why are you looking for lines

why are you looking for a lie

so where's the line for consciousness

it's fucking language it's so easy it's litterally language

didney ander thoughts experienced emotions

meaningless question there's no line

hello you lebanese mongrel taser

immediately bend

immediately banned

good job writing that paragraph no one's ever going to see it

good job writing that dog

debate perspective philosophy on this

and i'm going to eat a hamburger while i fuck and do it

i'll eleat a hamburger while i fuckn do it

i don't i'm out say this shit

that was

back

for

your food i

fully agree with that i think it's such a falsehood when be can say cruelty free

mmhmm

i agree that self consciousness is marked by language however conscious experience comes before this

there is no such thing as consciousness without self consciousness

there is no conscious experience without self consciousness the estrangement

consciousness implies an estrangement between a subject and an object

conscious experience means you experience the world in terms of intelligible things

that you consciously isolate

you need self consciousness for that otherwise there's no conscious

it's completely meaningless to talk about consciousness

have you heard mouthy infidel he recently became vegan

i'm going to eat a hamburger when i talk to him the

when i have to eat with vegans i eat veggies so they have nothing to eat

isn't consciousness always in relation to the self yeah more or less

you are not willing to extend

sovereignty to the natural world

how could you

you seem so willing to replace non human diversity on earth with robotic processes

if they can sustain you as well

if they can sustain you as well that's why i'm skeptical

but

what do you mean i'm not willing to extent well you're such a funking weirdo you're really the type of guy who goes into the forest and is like

you are sovereign i am granting i am extending my sovereignty guys snap your fingers you don't clap snap

i'm extending

my sovereignty upon what do you fucking mean

what do you mean extend sovereignty

the natural world is either sovereign or its not

and by the way why are you making such a hard distinction between humans and the natural world huh

you sound weird

how could there be a sovereign neatural world what is sovereign

nothing is sovereign in being there is no sovereignty at all in being actually

only our law is sovereign

what he mean sovereignty of the net doesn't even make any fucking sense

the avocados that i eat you know

were harvested by people that are being exploited could you give me three months i will debate you

i will literally ban you for three months if you try to schedule a debate with me three months in advance

if an animal injury here the paragraph andy

if an animal injured i'm not reading her paragraph

i'm just not

what can paragraph andy's dude

tl dr

so

do you guys consider gans why do you all look like this

why do all vegans look this way and sound this way

i've never seen a vegan who talks and sounds like me

and looks like me

why are you all like this

a privilege to a a point right what of people are going literally in their backyard shooting something

processing it in their house

and putting it right on the table

family like

that to me is

beautiful

was youre a cave man

my fucking cock is in your mom's cave

so i'm that type of caveman

can be really expensive you basically have to have a huge ranch or you have to spend a ton a ton of money to some i think veganism is a

c ia siop it is

his ranch and then i think what a lot of people see are

the trophy meet some vegans in the wild stop watching i have met them in the wild and they're the same way

hunters and the going over to africa and hunting i have not done that

all vegans are the same

yet that does not mean that i

and not for it plenty of vegan n f l football players and the'll never be in the top ten

that

i do know that tourism in africa benchwarmers

huge money maker for them i mean i'm not reacting to a fucking link mouse

ck fish

that'm trying to pervert

five six of other countries

yeah vegan is eugenics dude and i don't want to eat lab meat i'll never fucking

i'll never eat lab grown meat

i'll eat it the normal way

in a factory farm

wow but for real i will never eat lab grown meat never

that's litally where i'm gonna draw the line

i literally don't care where my food is from when they start talking about lab grown meat that's wright i draw the line i'm going to start eating consciously

and only eat organic

don't think we can know what animals experience or don't

okay

you don't know what a plant experience is

so there you go

you can't know what a rocq experience is

many chinese buddhists are vegans and the fuck in dalai lama

tortured people in shit

dude i'm sorry for all you people worshipping like

or in listen it's not what you think like when when the dalai lama and shit is like oh yeah when we construct a building

we make sure the worms are all safe and happy like

you realize like the unwritten part of that is like

past systems and like really fucked up

shit like don't even get into it dude

the dtll

chinese buddhists are not hippies theyre de are not hippies dodud these are hard coore people so don't don't assume you know anything about that

poor

and having an entire animal and multiple animals that hunters give them is a's

big for them my question with that would just be

why would it have to be

a tourist it kind of just sounds like

the white savior complex

narrative

because we're willing to pay the bet was a feutile society i know to think about like

a single elephant in its lifetime can garner over a million dollars

just from photographic tours

one single elephant's ivory is about

twenty one thousand dollars

so just that in itself like to me is evidence that like nonviolent

you want to know something i don't care about the ivory trade

i don't care ivory does seem like it's cool

lent tourism like non trophy hunting tourism like is just as lucrative if not more lucrative than trophy hunting i don't give a shit about the ivory trade i don't care about animals

i literally don't give a shit abouttom

if it was legal and i could have a ivory gamer chair i would

and like i couldn afford one i would

ivory gaming chair slash throne

i would if this was asked first

i think that's cruel

it's pretty cruel how that elephant randomly came and fucking killed a

gazelle for no reason

guys is it your wish to show animal violence like can i show an elephant attacking animals on twitch

they want to show you this video

and i want to hear what the vegans have to say

don't risk it okay okay

have disagreed but after hearing your story it is necessary

to an extent

m if you're

hunting for food

then you're saying that

show people killing other people

mad ja literally

things

people on the level of animals so if you're a kid in a fucking a

baby pig was in front of matt jay

just to let you know maggja's going to save the pig over your baby

he's going to flip a coin because there's no difference

if it were legal i would have a human share

this guy is literally a sociopathic scum bag you're literally a psychotic scum bag

you think humans animals are the same

domas

he thinks humans and animals are the same

and s wn people a like

i'm sorry i see on twitter like people are reacting to trophy on

how would you feel if

i hunted you and put you on my wall

m you would be a fucking serial killer cycle piece of shit

fucking weird deranged

person for even saying that

because animals and humans are not the fucking same thing

and if you think they're even close to being on the same level you are a fucking psychle you need to stay away from everyone's kids

let me tell you the truth about veganism somebody who has the time to give a shit about animals

takes humanity for granted

you know what it means to take humanity for granted it means you're taking the ruling class for granted

your specific version of white supremacist

humanity

your specific version of humanity

you're taking your specific version of

humanity for granted but guess what b humanity has unfinished business with you don't be worried about the fucking elephants

humanity's got unfinished business with you

understand

there's more to this humanity than you think only somebody who thinks they know what human beings have up their sleeves

is going to be like oh the what if i wanted people how would you feel were you just assuming you know what people are you don't

you don't

there's more humanity sleeve than you think

you've taken humanity for granted for too long that's your issue

or life

every fucking

period of history the aristocracy loved animals

they love their animal mighty capricious poodle you know in france you know what the fucking peasants did in france to piss off the ruling class

they would literally

pying cats

they would find cats and just put em on trial and hang them for witchcraft

and they literally only did it to piss off

the fucking ruling class who loved animals because they love animals because they take for granted their humanity only somebody who thinks

humanity's got nothing left

is going to go toward turn toward animals oh my birds my birds the every aristocracy in history every ruling class in history loves their stupid fuckt animals

because they're taken humanity for granted

thoughts on life after death

don't worry about it

but just assume this is it

as far as you're concerned

don't don't don't be worried about a next life

thank you class two three two

i will animal meat but only if it's spicy

collgula and his wrse exactly

fidel loved coles we betre just trying to go to the other extreme not saying you should hate animals or not appreciate the beauty and majesty of animals and the grace of animals i'm just fucking saying

when society is getting to the level of trying to like debate animal rights and taking it to that level then it's different

i'm not saying you're a fucking asshole an idiot

just becuse you have a cat

or a dog

and you you think that these are beautiful creatures or whatever i'm just saying when you start to like take it too far and bring in like morality and ethics and political rights and all this kind of like

this type and consciousness and that level you're taking it too far you're just taking it too far

i don't funton hate animals i've never been an animal hater

but i don't confuse i don't get it mixed i don't confuse humans with animals that's the fucking difference between me like fidel loved cows but fidel didn't introduce legislation

so

make animals health care a fucking priority over human health care like he didn't he didn't fucking get to that satanic devil's advocate where do we draw the line thing he was just a normal natural human being and yet a normal natural human being

does not torture animals or fucking kill animals for no reason

it's just not it it's not a normal thing a human being would do

but guess what

the whole factory farming and eating meat

that's not because people are sadistic it's just the most efficient way to give

people meet

and h people want to eat meat

beuse meat is good

it's way you can eat way less meat and get the same amount of nutrients as if you ate

none meat

simple as that

you know

i don't believe in animal rights because i don't even believe in human rights honestly i don't

but i'm just saying like

stop trying to take it so far wre you fucking

i think we should appreciate the natural world we share in existence also appreciate yeah but don't l up and start getting like

lawful and technical about it where like you're just assuming this kind of like

law like perspective and cold disinterested detached perspective where it's just like we must preserve

the sovereignty and rights of ana no it's like no don't take it that far

you're taking it too far when you do that

yeah matt jae you're in a cault dude you're literally in a cault

is i'm not the type of person who is like oh is it o k

to not be is it ok to eat meat

i'm past that level now what i want to know about is is it okay to be a vegan

like should we tolerate veganism should it should begans even be allowed

s that's the level i'm on

i'm on the level where i'm like

should even veganism be allowed

i don't think it should be allowed honestly i don't

like is veganism itself unethical i think it is i think it's

are vegans bad people that's the question

at the level i'm on is is r vegan's bad people

also animal abuse is a red flag so there are selfish reasons

but goga there's a you're talking about an individual perspective versus social one

factory farming is not the same as an individual

like beating a dog ok that's yeah that's very

intimate personal

psychological issue with that individual

you cannott make the leap to the level of like

universal moral and ethical reality

what is your aversion to lab grown meat it's spooky itky and nasty and weird

and i don't trust it i think an animal should have to

die

like a living thing i want to eat something that used to be living

i don't want to fucking eat lab grown meat that's disgusting

and i don't trust that these scientists know what they're doing i don't trust that scientists

like i think

for example did you know that an animal was scared at the time of its death

the meat will taste better

there's so many factors that go into meat

i don't think you'd even grow it in a lab and it'll be the same thing

i think you're losing a lot

how would you ban veganism

um

unless you come from a different culture and religion

i think people should be forced to eat meat

veganism for the purpose of environmentalism is a simple individual sacrifice no it's not shut the fuck up

you're not helping the environment at all

by being a vegan not even a little bit not even a little bit

it absolutely is oka

not only do you think it is you think it absolutely is

that's what you think but you're wrong it's not

the animal dies anyway because there's not enough of you vegans in the world beause no one cares about vegans and no one ever will be of cringed vegan like you

fok the environment

there's no saving the environment

malfusians

that

the environment will change

so you we going to have to adjust to this change

you are participating in joseph blow one way or another literally joseph blow let me tell you something

by being in my fucking twitschat you are participating in the environmental crisis

b bliterally just beat typing in my twitch chat

where was your keyboard made from where was your phone made from

where was your bandwidth from

where's the internet

what's what's powering your source what's powering the internet that you're using

huh

you are fucking participating

you are participating joseph

you definitely are

you definitely are

you actually make an effort to mitigate your consumption

but you can trim fat why not because you can't trim fat

beuse what you're doing is wrong it's not only that you're not helping what you're doing is wrong

that's why

you're actually a bad person for being a vegan you're literally a bad person

you're not it's not just that

it makes no difference it's that you're actually a bad person

you're actually just a bad person for being a vegan

use you the reason you're corrupt in a bad person

is because you think you're doing something good and you're not

it completes corruption and narcissism

fganism is a byproduct of colonization before european colonizers arrived the indigenous people of the americas utilize all kingdoms of life for sustenance when colonizers came they thought indigenous foods were s par so they began to import domestic animals and food crops from their homelands one of the tools of colonization is the disruption of indigenous food systems an example of this is the killing of buffalo to make the native americans dependent on the colonizers food supply in

the same way beganism is the next phase of creating food dependence it is not an idea born of connection and integration with the land but of extreme disconnection from the natural world we can see this by searching you're not doing any good by being a vegan you're not doing any good you're not doing any good at all whatsoever

to be vegan you will get a list of cities because cities is what makes this life white people most definitely do not have a claim on veganism they're the ones who invented it

th're the biggest

ok percentage of people on earth who are begin

what percenta of their wright

what percentage are right

which one

which one

it is that possible

mad j i don't just eat meat passively i

samor

in i've med my

steak to be a little red cause it rejuvenates me kabab

i feel the way in which eating meat

power' is me

i'm an active meat eater the majority of vegetarians are indian

shut up

indians don't care about you and have nothing to do with you

the closer you get to the natural world and food sovereignty the more this illusion falls apart and the more conscious omnivary becomes the law of the land all industrialized food systems are out of balance and choosing one over another

before we get to the

important th

vegan copers

i refuse to let white people claim veganism too bad it's a white phenomenon made by white people for white people and it's one hundred percent white

that other

animal's life

and that is more reasonable to me this is the most white woman i've ever seen in my whole life

she's witer than any trump supporter

saying that you were

pleasure or your trophy or whatever is more important than an animal's life

there's also safety which i now realize and

it's like almost two hours if you needed a medical emergency evacuation so yeah i don't know any killing besides safety and

food and then we still try to make the most out of the body in the fur and we'll try to like feed it to the dog seems

there is just the biology of land and there is biology of carrying capacity in there is biology of how these animals have to be

you know

taken care of

i know

you're a pussy if you don't slaughter animals with your bare hands hey charm ho you fuck an idiot

most people in the fucking world per thousands of years did not kill meat with their own hands you fucking idiot

literally after the fucking new

neurolithic

people started to use fucking livestock nobody just fucking you think that before the west people were just fucking hunting animals no they weren't you fuck an idiot

people raise goats and they raise fucking cows

and they barely do it themselves you buy the meat from the local butcher

shut the fuck up

idiot

psychowirdo

why the folk was you have to kill with your own hands

say that indeed yeah i said after the neolithic ashole

a lot of people still hunt for meat indigenous people but they're the minority

i'm so sick of fucking

you know these white westerners who are fantisizing fucking indigenous people fuck you bitch

it's the choice is not between indigenous people and the west cause the majority of the world is neither of those things asshole

most people in the world are not indigenous tribes hunting animals

you know the rest is not the only fucking civilization in the world

it's not the only fucking civilization in the world

most people in the world probably do know how to butcher a chicken or goat actually wrong

actually wrong

like the reason why white people are obsessed over indigenous shit is because they're like oh we white people are the only ones with civilization everyone else lives in tribes and hunts animals

literally not fucking true at all

go to dixieland they kill alligators with their bare hands

good for them

just saying

the idea that it's not hypocritical

to fucking the idea it's hypocritical to eat meat without killing the animal yourself

is the most stupid shit i ever heard in my life

no

that people are he's just being an annoying idiot in my fucking chat talking shit

it was dear

a're goness

dark

there's not enough food there's not enough water there's not enough shelter

so to me i will take one for the team and i will show you dear this year

to keep the land in check and the ecosystem in check

i don't disagree that

veganism is the ultimate form of communist

biggest fucking lie i've ever heard in my whole fucking life

biggest lie i have ever heard in my whole life

maintaining equilibrium of an ecosystem is important

my questions veganism

is an aristocratic phenomenon

of city dwelling

corrupt

urban night

petite bousgeois

anti human anti people

mentally deranged

cia funded and s propped up

stupid people

that would be like what's actually sitting at the root cause

of the deer overpopulation is the root cause that people aren't hunting enough or is the root cause that they're

you know their land is being taken away but what

there's too many fucking deer everywhere

what are you going to do about it me making assumptions

hunting is a band aid solution like i wish i could i agree i think they should pass laws

giving all citizens

um

armor to place in the front of their trucks and cars and we should just start running them over

because yes hunting is a band aid solution i think we need to have more drastic measures against this deer

inser a very

smart and like well based on data you we look at los angeles and doallas and like weere her animals go right

they're ying

you know i mean it but what is the solution i don't know

the us

a lot of the times has

tried to decide where animals need to

go or not without the guidance of indigenous people who have been doing this for thousands of years and who have relationships with the animals there are so

oh my god i fucking other paragraph

climate change is a reality

yes and guess what

guess what it you're not going to reverse it you can't do anything about it you have to adjust to it

i'd rather not live in a world that does not value ecological diversity than go live on mars

with lon moske

because it is the most productive to human civilization as no further value then go fucking jack off animals on mars

this is our world beach

such is true for our food systems mass species extinction is a tragedy no

mass species extinction

is the only consistent fucking thing we have on record that's all that fucking happens

in history

why don't you look at the fucking fossil record

look how many focking mass extinctions there's ever been

you want to cry about it

you sound like a five year old bully who has to be tolld about the coldness of life in those movies all right listen here son

we're goin to have to take old yeller out back and put him down i'm goin to teach you how to be a man cause this is a cold world these are the cold realities

but but old yeller na son i'm a you know

that used to be how it was

but now that five year old boy rules our world and no one's taught him about the real world

he's everywhere

dude this is just reality you're so weird

you're so weird

learned from the wisdom of funcking humanity

you sound like a child who doesn't understand the fucking cold hard truths of the world

but papa oh why does all theyeller have to die

well son that's just the way of the world

or like you're like a little kid and fuckin

the fucking h

you'd be like a fucking kid and like fucking um

the middle east is like oh

now but why does their good have to die

my son

but sow he know in the middle of eleasy bag i saw he throw his shoe at him and fuckin slap him around a little bit shut the fuck up

have you ever killed something with your own hands

why are there so many weird vegan serial killers in my chat

ever killed something i've killed many bugs

and yes i think i have

like when it comes to livestock yes but you just sound creepy and weird

you sound creepy and fucking weird

have you ever killed something with your bear

mad jae is a guy at his house he literally has fucking people

like he has dead bodies all over his house and he's like

what's the matter

it's the same thing as havin some chicken in your fridge

it's all the same to me

i've discovered the truth

about

morality

fucking pycle dude

walking weirdle

solutions there are people that know it and we need to push people in power to

uplift voices who have this knowledge i'm not the one sucking cow tit's

when havem i sucked cowtits you're trying to say that me drinking milk is the same thing as sucking cowtits no it's fucking not one of them involves putting your mouth

on a fucking cow's nipple

the other one involves going to the store and buying some milk and drinking it you fucking idiot

no it is not the same thing

it's not the fucking same thing shut the fuck up

it's relially not the same thing at all

my diet is healthier

vegans are bad people they're honestly bad it's wrong and immoral to be a vegan

bugs are the futues say good bye with your stak and berg good luck with that

you see how the people deal with that

you think that the people in davos are going to

get what they want

nope

everyone knows

the people are the true masters of history you're not going to take meat away from the people you're not

the question is healthier than what i chose to come up here

you weird why are you drinking milk look at the vegan cop the vegans trying so hard to like make themselves seem normal and make their colt seem normal

you weird why are you drinking milk made for a baby cow weird ah a

like mad jays of a guy he's like he goes thug a storm you're eating burger he's trying to like artificially create morali ah he's trying to artificially create like coolness and norms he's like

oh you're eating a burger that's so weird none of the cool kids eat burgers something fuck up mag ja you're so like you're try you're coping so hard trying so hard

to like

like

oh you're drinking milk made from no you're using a very cold

deductive logical process that has nothing to do with human instinct or intuition to say that

whereas

fucking on a cow's tit does is weird from a perspective of normal human intuition in everyday common sense

you're not using common sense

you're fucking using something else

don't you think it's time to stop drinking milk i'll do what i want bitch

i mean i'm not i don't drink a glass of milk every night

but

i have way protein i drink fucky i have a lot of cheese

i ha there's a lot of milk in my food

you know

and when i eat cereal i'm going to put some milk

what are you going to do about it

but pain is abstract

that's common sense

yes it actually fucking is if you think ab if you have to be dragged to the point of thinking about it it is common sense isn't that most people don't have to be dragged to the point of thinking about it because most people don't have to fucking justify their pain under the threat that every animal experiences the same thing as what they're experiencing you fucking idiot

what begans

they really violate our humanity and our human common sense

they try to impose this supercld rationalistic purely logical

way of thinking on our human intuition and common sense introducing problems that would never be there oh it's ok to kill cows why isn't it ok to kill disabled people no one wanted no one that was out here talking about killing disabled people it is you're making a very violent fucking equivocation that's based on a violent abstraction from reality that has nothing to do with our human

everyday common sense at all

but you vegan you pieces shit lawyer you fuckin pieces shit lawyer scumbag

literally white supremacy to the max

if something is convenient for you then it's just common sense matt ja

i'm about to ban you why shouldn't i just ban you from my chat you fucking dumb coping asshole

ma jic not anyones a fucking calvinist like you a calvinist a calvinist who thinks virtue means living your life in an unintuitive way for god cause god wants us to live unintuitively oh

do you live according to what's convenient oh you just you don't live according to virtue then because this is a world of total depravity and going against what's convenient is the source of human virtue

you think people in lat america don't live according to convenience do you think people in the middle east don't live according to convenience do you think people in africa don't live according to convenience or do you think that their calvinist white fucking pasty right towards like you who live according to abstract morality that is in direct con contradiction with their everyday normal human lives

you stupid fuck

get the i'm banning him forever n i'm banning him for twelve days come back in twelve days mat jay

you're knowing fuck

veganism is the future

is this achley perspective philosophy

this is actually him is it

no it's not

is it

vegan is a future

perspective i'll literally debate you if that's you i'll debate you whenever

als so please don't talk about morality as if you understand it oe he's a p here's it

he's a p member what david army said he that he's got a ph d in philosophy so he thinks he knows things

becuse he got taught in school

you're actually more stupid

then but if you didn't go to school at all and didn't even know anything you just made yourself stupid by going to school

no mess

i don't know anything about morality

what is morality perspective for philosophy what is morality then

go ahead in the chat since you're in my chat what's morality go ahead tell me what it is

you better get it right too

i want to see if your education and philosophy

is going to do you any good from a historical perspective

what is morality

what is the origin of morality as a distinct category of thought

what is morality go ahead

let's hear it

morality

evaluations of good and bad behavior by an individual sking wrong sking wrong rely wrong

no it's focking nott

what's stupid talking are you

w when continentle talk about morality do you think they're talking about individual evaluations no

that's fucking utilitarianism that's british bullshit that's bentham that's that type of stupid fucking bullshit that has nothing to do with it

you know what theral consciousness is do you know what it means for there to be a moral subject

even know anything you said i don't know morality is and that's the fucking answer you gave me

imagine being that dumb look underneath dummy underneath what

you know what you're talking about

you don't know what morality is do you

you don't know what morality is whatsoever

you just gave me a fucking textbook definition that's not even correct

from a historical perspective

that's the actual perspective philosophy it's nearly two am here when are you free

saturday

from a historic was known it's fucky not

no it's not

morality was a category of aesthetics historically actually

so you don't know what you're talking about

younple even know about the connection between morality and aesthetics

o you even know athatics is you know athatics is

but what are you talking about i've read netsche

ok

don't come in here tommy you don't know you're talk aout when it comes to morality

when you literally have a fifth grade education on the matter

you're talking about the cllqal usage of morality in twenty twenty one by english speakers you are not telling me what morality is from an authentic philosophical perspective that betrays an appreciation for the history of classical and western philosophy

which is what we're talking about here

no one cares you red nietzsche don't come here and try to fucking flaunt your authority when you have none

no i am not

since i am he gelian i distinct

zo

ire something gorian and you don't know what morality is

and by the way the distinction between ethics and morality

it's what unique to hego

everyone knows there's a distinction between morality and ethics

everyone knows their fucking distinct that doesn't come from hegel hegel doesn't invent the distinction between morality and ethics morality and ethics

they have always been qualitatively different things they refer to different things historically

well since he was the first no he didn't

no he didn't he did not

he was not the first person to say ethics is something entirely different from morality no he fucking wasn't

or i should prepose this he was not the first person

to give

meaning to the distinction between ethics

and morality

people used ethics and morality in different ways

at least since kant

but even before conk

probably

how can you call yourself a hegelian you know nothing about hegelian view of morality

morality comes from moralist ethicals

they have the same etymological foundation that doesn't change the fact that people use them in different ways historically

people did use them in different ways historically

i suggest looking into mactin yar on how morality got its current meaning

how ut you just argue about it yourself instead of trying to point me toward other people

your phd is worthless i can't believe

you call yourself a hegelian you don't even know about the hagelian view of morality

how could you understand a word of hegel

if he don't understand what he means by morality the moral consciousness and the moral striving

as the condition of freedom

how could you be a gigelan if you don't understand this

that's what i want to know

i understand that you're like some like analytical

you know fifth grade philosopher

but you call yourself a pagaan

ethics is freedom

morality is not

you don't know what you're talking about dude you don't know what you're talking about

specifically do not know what you're talking about

message me on twitter and we can arrange the debate

no we will do it saturday

my twitter is going to be banned any minute

i'm debating our destiny tomorrow we'll do it saturday

email you

i don't want a fucking e mail you

i'll bashes d m e on discord

why should i email you e maail me

beitch out then

no mother fucker if you challenge me to something

you have to be the one to message me i'm not going to go out of my way to email you fuck you

wh the fuck are you in't even know you only have five hundred followers on thich you don't have the upper hand here

i am here aren't i

so saturday i'm telling you 'us do a saturday

unless you want to bitch out like a pussy

come saturday

i'll be free saturday

you given orders like you're in charge

you're not

he doesn't even know anything about thegelian view of morality

he thinks morality means an individual's evaluation of good and bad

no that's the fifth great way of looking at

pago's meal morality is so much more expansive than that

it' so much more expensive

so much more expensive

you have this bazaar

view of ethics and morality

completely estranged from being that is completely alien to hegel

how can you call it you're not a hegelian you're one of those contians

who realize kant is not enough so they supplement their kantianism with hagelian it

a pretensions but you're not actually a hagallian

whod donated five hundred bucks nobody donated five hundred what are you talking about

whatk are you talking about

someone donated five hundred ware

is strange from being you highmatee yes

the ha gelian view of ethics and morality is that they're not

something completely ah

holy strange the you don't just say

this what is you don't individually arbitrate what is moral what is ethical

i mean you got one thing vaguely right about ethics being instantiated in institutions

but this is not something you discursively arbitrate

or debate about that's not the he gelian view that's more the ontological view

that's more conti in view

that is the distinction between morality and ethics

that is a way of looking at the distinction but it's not the only way to look at it

but that would be

the view of ethics in relation to institutions is vaguely hagelian

but you don't know anything about haigel hagel is a deontologist he's not

he's really not

for hegel

things like morality the moral consciousness

is suspended in the development of reality itself nor where does an individual draw a line in the sand and say this is it

or they discover a line in the sand and say this is it

it's not the hegelian view at all that's the contian view

you can't be more wrong you don't know what you're fucking talking about

you don't know about alfur hagle

pgle shifts to a more objective view about how it develops in reality itself

then it's not a matter of individuals discursively arbitrating any of this

deontology is objective

no

in the sense that forcant

deontology is a matter of drawing a line

do you know about higgel's critique of cont

specifically on this matter

about the contient sublime

perspective philosophy five four

five two four two d mi

how many views do you get on average what am i gaining from this

where would i like to go

friends a friend

perspective

philosophy

what is it

five

two four two

five two four two

gu i just sent you a friend request d m me you got my friend request

go ahead yummy

what am i gaining very communist of you of course that's fucking communist you fucking idiot

you know anything about communism

you know about how all communist fucking did was focus on how they can spread their fucking newspaper that's the founding of the fucking worlds

first major communist party on earth you fucking moron

thumas

but he's a galle and right now you're an individualis retard has nothing to do with hagel

he thinks he thinks communism means

saintly in a christian like saintly way disavowing the worldly reality

just for the sake of some abstract virtue

to fuck up you dumb fucking cont

very cam of course that's communist of me

it's common to somebody to want a fucking grol this channel you fucking more on

do you think communist gos to lose

dummas

the fuck you know about communism

i can't wait to wipe the fucking floor with you saturday

i can't wait

stupid fuck

what can i gain

yeah

and what's your point

what can i gain who am i who the fuck am i perspective philosophy

what does it mean for me to gain or not to gain what defines the matrices of my gain or my loss

stupid fuck

or do you think there's an objective a historical

standard of individual self gain

that transcends

an individual's instantiation in some kind of institution organization or

a greater social whole

you stupid fuck

well i thought you were a heganian

do you think there's an a historical standard of individual self gain

completely divorced from reality

i thought you were a he gelian boy

who'se i

what does hagel think of i

what does it mean for i to gain

dumb fog

he's just playing with words cause i said what do i gain obviously everyone knows what is me on the stream what is the infrared gain

what is i as the fucking streamer gain

but he's just trying to play with games and that's what these fucking academic

fake philosophers do they're not real philosophers by the way

the people who go to school

they try to play with words

oh but you said demiate

i just added you bitch dar me

the mmy i just added you

so you had me are you going to bitch out and pussy out

the enemy

and by the way i'm going to eat a big fat juicy burger when we talk i hope you get ready for that

i'm specifically going to eat healthy for the next two days

because i'm going to eat a big fucking burger

matter of fact

i might do an iir ol stream at the butcher

we'll debit while i'm at the butcher

want to do that i'm going to see if i can get that arranged

i'll need a burger too just a vegan one

ok

i'm going to be at a butcher

how about that

you going to be a your vegan butcher

i'm going to be doing a very immoral unethical thing i'm going to be eating salvating in the fucking suffering of that cow while i debate you there's nothing you could do about it

remember to suck his cock wh i want to make you suck my cock you fucking bitch

you're going to souck my cart

you fucking pussy you don't know shit about anything you're talking about fake hegelan doesn't know shit about hegel

thinks morality is an individual

deciding what is good or bad

what a stupid fuck

doesn't know that the moral consciousness is something objective it doesn't fucking mean

an individual evaluating good or bad

likek an idiot

i asked him what is morality i was thinking i'm going to get a profound answer

gives me the answer of a fucking fifth grader

i ask you what is more isalen you're supposed to be informed not what you're talking about

he gives me like a high school a high schooler would tell me that

what does this big philosopher

this is the big philosopher

he's a big philosopher

dmu

see you in a bit i can't wait to fuk you and by the way

this is gonna be me against the whole united kingdom

so you better represent

beuse you're going to be representing all the u k

saturday

tomorrow i'm debating destiny

they say this is the guy who beat destiny it's not hard to beat destiny ugh philosophy debate destiny doesn't give a shit about philosophy

british empire falls saturday yup

and i'm going to actually see if i could go to the butcher and do it from a butcher

i'm going to do it from a butcher

uh place i'm going to see if it's allowed on twitch

but if it is that's where i'm going to be debating him from

what will you debate destiny about

i don't know communism something like that

it's crazy how he said

hegel is deontological

like wow

really

really

higgel is not a deontologist i don't know where he got that from

he doesn't know what he's talking about

currently perspective does not like vosh and he beat vosh so bad that wasoston upload the video wm going to beat him even harder

i'm sick of these vegans so all this is going to put

a rest to the vegan debate

this is going to put to rest the debate about veganism

so yeah

you don't know if someone is a vegan you'll find up the two minutes of meeting them i know

the next battle is against this week is t vegan week

this is the battle against vegans i was not eating a diet

i love a beyond burger is that healthier than eating rice beans and color greens every day no it's not do i believe that eating plant base is healthier than eating animal products

yes and if you're super superintentional informed about what you're putting in your body then it's going to be healthier than someone who's not that's also healthier on an emotional and mental level there's this

detachment this emotional detachment they are going through when you're

eating an animal and that to me is emotionally unhealthy i think awareness is one of the healthiest things that

we can have

mmhmm

i know if you like search of eganism like online especially on youtube

you can see very dangerous vegan diets being a

like just told to like a massive audience of like young impressionable people

like but like oreos re vegan tw

i believe that the non human world

oh my god

this guy again

i believe that the non human world should be enhanced to the benefit of humans

a mutualistic sense to the world do you disagree yes i do

i do disagree

but there's are begin and that's been one am and i've downed a sleeve of orioles i'm just like why did i do that

just maybe s you're thirty yeah i'm twenty four so i feel like i'll just keep on kicking i don't know

coming here i want to be very careful in

extreme

like my meat is he you know my diet is help

i don't know that i don't know you i don't know you i don't know you

i believe the meat i eat

it's better

then

which you would get a mcdonald

think it would be

so hard to

peakan

mhmm

becaus it seems like so much work

there's a learning curve

it's not hard in the grand scheme of things

i feel a lot better

um

putting in the work because i feel more empowered i guess you could say the definition of ganism is

just as far as what is practicable and possible it's all about doing your best he thank you

um

what was i going to say

was thinking

ah

we're going to watch another jubilee

the video we anti vegan hads where you at right here my friend right here

right here

i

now let's what is this

oh shit

can youutah

check this out

we i don't know about you your misactun

i'm gonna see if i con judge

basically who's the high schooler or who's the middle schooler

middle school is right here

it is the middle school

right here

club there's one middle schooler the rest are high schoolers

we brought together seven high schoolers i'm a high school i am a high schooler i am a high schooler i'm a high schooler i am a high schooler i am a highch i am a high school she's not igh school one is a lie if the group discovers the liar is the'll st a cash prize if the liar survives they win the entire

a prize who is the aud one now ok names and like grat ok ok so you i down the line all right i'm nathan i'm a junior and i'm a sophomore i'm o livia i'm a freshman i'm sara i'm sophomore im use off and i'm a junior i'm london coco and i'm a junior i'mm freshman so no it's emett it's the guy whos it's the two freshman's

because why would a middle scholer say i'm a junior

my eyes on the freshmany middle school is sixth seven and eighth grade

yah i do't s are it's very easy to say oh i'm a freshman she was like

oh the freshman they're going to be the most suspect ones and i was like or you could like be doing that like throw us off of you so what classes are you taking honest english p

chemist o prediction yh it's tou predictions

one

prediction

ok let's do

start prediction it's going to be is haaz right

is has

right

yes it's one of the

freshments

no

ok let's see

mm

yea it's going to do is hars right

there is not going to be mult all way now i going tosue multiple choices multiple choice on

prediction

i'm going to delete this one

hey who are all the people again

so let's get this right

get this right get this right

um

k one is nathan

prediction

guys keep your eye on the screen

only you can't there is this not multiple choice

it is not multiple choice

ok it's not multiple choice

i

if and i'm adopting prediction i'm and i'm a sophomore i'm olivia i'm a freshman i'm sara i'm a sophomore i'm use of and i'm a oh my god it's only thirty seconds you guys only have thirty seconds

hey

o

gyway i'm going to give you more time

i'm deleting this one

yeah i'm going to do one more and i'm going to give you like a minute

because that's not enough time

how about we d two minutes or not we have a lot of time

let's do

five minutes

is

az right

yes no

yeah we're going to do five minutes

prediction

so we're going to have five minutes to vote

i picked that it's going to be one of the freshmen

re i'm london coco and i'm a junior i'm emmett and i'm a freshman yes it's going to be emmett or that other person on the freshman noyh i don't are it's very easy to say oh i'm a freshman and she was like

oh yeah look at this guy

freshman they're going to be the most suspect ones and i was like or you could like be doing that to like throw us off of view so what classes are youys taking honest english

the fuck everyone's hoosing now

why the fuck would you choose no

p e

chemistry a p let

a perh

honors theater five honors theater four i take religion because i go to a private school and algebra w heer i'm a junader oh you t i'm going to tak headter oh yeah you have lived as a junior

yeah my i know all the public schools do laning and then we do go i have chemistry algebra two sociology italian english you guys back person because my schools fully back and oh really only on my really n go two days a week i did that for a while

i'm very suspicious of sarah she has braces and although there's a lot of people in high school with braces i feel that's more of a middle school thing

and we have a tie that tie is between sarah

and olivia

i knew that since i said i was a freshman hold on he said

on proerspective philosophy said i am not free for at least two weeks

i have four debates before you

lam a what a fog

said what when are you free

why the fok ask when i'm free if you can't debate

for another two weeks

come to me when you can debate

when you

and debate

what a fucking idiot yeah i think he's just pussing out

it does sound like he's just pussying out

and i was shorter that i was going to have more votes on me and more suspects

that means we're going into a tie breaker

each of you is going to get

twenty seconds

to state your case

i was fres last year holy shit more people are saying i'm right

and so my school now we are doing like kind of like block schedule you go to school two days a week so basically i'm in group b so i go wednesday and friday which i like friday right ok well i'm a freshan way she looks kind of

six

and it's my first year in high school

i'm taking like math one i'm doing a p human geography we're learning about how to read math we're starting football games again and i get it he and im sarah is kind of sauce

she said something about like i'm in a p geography and she's like yeah we're learning a lot about maps and i was like

yeah that's kind of the definition of geography

it's ok'

i thought i did all right but

of course wasn't the best i got voted out what are your like main three extracurricular

i have an internship right now i voted on one of the freshman i have a job as well but it's not like fancy i'm just like a bus boy you guys have job so either alivia or emmet it's either emmett or olivia

you guys have jobs i apply for one but i won't be here until summer

it's like a not

that's cool go on ok

i'm working at john's incredible pizza because the they start hiring yeah it's really cool they start hiring at fourteen but i'm fifteen so so how old are you guys

i'm sixteen

i'm sixteen fiften i'm sixteen but i turned seventeen like two weeks you know what she looks like

she looks like go

stranger things

what's that girl

when some people started revealing their age it was like maybe the people who are older are actually the moles because it's

would be harder to lie that way i started my own club this year so that's also yeah milly bobby brown she loks like milly bobby brown

where

club

i started a drama club i think you're all i've i really don't knowve i'm believing all of you you know a lot harder than i your may actionly yeah this a drama club sy next well i will make my case i am not like some like kid actor and i'm not like

a good like

naturalistic actor i'm like shakespeare so i god trust i think it was just the acting thing that it

am it

made me really think that it was london sorry but this person makes me feel really sus we have a tie

the tie is between london

and olivia to do is give you each

twenty seconds

state your case well i mean honestly i'm a really bad actor and a liar like

you're an actor so i take a p classes i have a p exams next year

and i'm not sorry not next year next month just because i'm an actor doesn't mean people have to attack me i have watched disney channel my whole life it does not ptray high school at all i feel like there are so many different people and there's never just one popular mean person everyone's mean and yes there is

group so just be nice that's all i say probably could have talked more about high school i kind of went off on

ran about

disney channel on t v bets are over predictions are over they literally had grues bums you guys

if you want to continue playing the game and you think the mole might still be in the box

please raise your hand in three

to

one

i think we should shift to like pop culture stuf because we talked a lot about school i agree with that yeah

um what shows did you guys wat

growing up

the middle it was on a b c i used to watch that twenty four s what did you i watch a big time rush i was

it's more like nickelodeon i car nickoloneon

blue i chrlie a big time rush jesse i love jesse dog with a blog good luck charlie

sponge what the fuck is all that shit

here's what i knew from disney channel

sweet life of zach and cody and then the they went on a cruise ship too the i remember the cruise ship one

i remember

drake and josh

then i remember i carley

was i carly a spinoff of drak in josh

and i remember uh

here's what i watched on cartoon network

billy and mandy

with the grim reaper

o g type of show

i remember camp laslow a little bit

but before then

i don't really remember nothing

even stevens i remember fucking even seeing samurai jack

i remember that

yeah i remembered n he courge the cowardly dog i remember that

which is the waverly place

no that's p that's something my younger um

siblings would watch

foster's home i remember dexter yes dexter i remember that

johnny test nah that's some zoomer shit i don't know what the book that is

south park

kids next door yeah kids next door i remember that power pup girls i remember that

ca is old tom and jerry i remember tom and jerry but that's very old

bill and may yup already said that

this is pretty that makes sense guys as a kid

i literally thought fred fredberger was the most funny shit ever

from billy and mandy they had a character called fret yea cat dogs nickoeloone

they had a character called fred fred berger

and i thought it was the most funny thousand

like as a kid i was just kicked i was

i literally thought it was the most funny thing ever

i literally thought it was so funny

so so funny

this ear agt of water would jes se those are kind of new when emmett said that he watches like jesse or like

those type of new shows what chowder dude that's some zoomer

k look

some kids there's the weird o kids and the cool kids i'm one of the cool kids

after a certain point like sixth grade

or fifth grade

the cool kids went on to watch

family guy

or south par

the weird kids continue to watch

cartoon network

and that's why like

a lot of weird people they're like it i love inventure time a venture time it's like

you really never grew up did you

those i was like those are kind of like shows that my younger sister and i don't care what anyone says family guy is still funny

we agree with m

t she is in middle school

so was kind of suspicious of him metals fat boy and chum chum shot up adventure times base shot up

schoolers are just a couple years younger than us like what shows you watch family guys good

justice like when we were kids

family guy on top family guys better than the simpsons south park futurama

family guy is fucking god tear

it's the best one

manly guy is the best one

it is

it's ally the best one not going to really differentiate any of us

do you guys think middle school is different from school is that even a question

i got in trouble a lot family guy relies on unfunny aunti s what are you fucking talk shut up

middle school i'm not fully developed as a high schooler but

and middle school you're still like even less developed so like

it's like you just make ub mistakes and re really childish and like

middle school for me was

horrible i had to do with a lot of fake friends and bowling in middle school

so high school is just like a complete different

environment for me people talk about how

like oh my god high schools how and so i was like no my middle school and hew i was

horrible we you have any extracurriculars yeah yeah i like help i said like i help my cousins with like this apparel brand that she's doing and that's cool to i really

think that admit

was the more

family guy wins

because just look at peter griffin and how he talks

that in and of itself will always be funny just literally look at peter griffin

and look how he talks

that in and of itself is funny i don't care what anyone says

that by

by itself it's funny

only because he had like a really really baby face so i guess softbarre's the worst one instantly

thought of him

oh

sorry no you're good by guys good luck bekaus if you want to continue playing the game please raise your hand in three cre

gras

you gotta come over with some lemonade i can' do it

i can't do it dude slicker can do the fucking

heard the voice

to

liquor knows how to do the herber voice i don't

yes

yes i was i

how does you folking do it i don't know

to

one

greece

if you want to continue playing the game raise your hand in three

two one

i don't think we're going to but ok i was going to say i'm suspicious of you just nowll raise our hand i feel like

once i did it you're like o way i don't want to look like the n i've never watched ricken morty in my whole fuck in life and i never will

i will never watch rick and morty till the day i die

i will never watch it

so i was like oh let me like i'm kind of st the v and i'm sorry but i don't know you's like i have my club

about drama quickly

answer this question quickly

what class are you

a twenty twenty two ok and you're a junior i thought you were a freshman

i w i'm so glad i'm not a freshmanmy sor when did you start like high school like did you have like a full year of normalcy i only had one semester of normal year so did you get like any school dances or anything we did i got to go to form on sdes we used

yeah'd rather not talk about o liave it like with all of us you're the only one like

really like dressed up like in heels and stuff it could be like a way to hide but she's

oh my god yeah aquatine is good aquatine was good

aquatine was pretty good

but pretty dark too i'm not my name is london coco i am like a being in and of itself something i dislike london i dislike her

ll are going to regret it no mo i've stated my case so many times like i am such a high schooler if you want to continue playing

please raise your hand in three

to one

so if the light turns green that means you have voted out the mall and you win

if the light turns red the bll is still in the box and you shit let's see

if i could possibly be right ok i could be right i could be right

all of you who voted against me

you'd better be swaating

god i was i was i swear if one of you guys was in middle school i was like i can't we this onell the mod please step forward and reveal yourself in three one

i mean

yes i told you to trust me

i told you i'm never wrong i told you it's the truth i told you don't doubt me i told you i know what's goin on but youall keep doubting me thinking like i don't know what i'm talking about

all of you who stood by me

let me serve you up your points

so

seventy five seventy one percent i said i was right

twenty nine said i was wrong

was house right yes

come on let's pay it out let's pay out that

let's pay out that money

those good channel points

it ain't wise to vote against me it ain't wise to bet against me

it ain't why i've seen i've not seen this before shut the fuck up

h gt i'm in eighth grade yeah i wasn't suspecting that like somebody younger would be the more i thought they would try to throw us off i saw livia was the mole from day one i was happy to see that my instincts were correct i generally thought i was going to be out first because when i arrived everyone looked older than me so the fact that i i was like

back to the matter okay what's going on with brittany uh

everyone's talking about brittany

what's going on

britney speaks out about abusive conservatisve

ship

o

hold on

britany speaks out

brittaney

a defects to the deep

there we go

ok now to britnany spears who is pleading with a judge today to end her court order

conservatorship

which she calls

and i quote here abusive

telling the judge again i quote

i just want my life back

more in the story now from c n n stephanie ela

one more time britty spears is angry she wants her life back

mouse tand can end stream

no you can't

how much fucking points does mouse ten have

he can fucking end stream

you can end stream

oh no dejstine

dessiny backed out

it's for tomorrow's thing

he can't do it

four

fok

bark there goes tomorrow's content

everyone's fucking backing out

no

bring warch

and she wants the world to know it

speaking remotely to a los angeles but to boss boss wants to take time before he debates me in a courtroom

the pop singer saying

her wish and dream is for the conservatorship to end

a legal arrangement she's been living with for nearly thirteen years

in the status hearing spears expressing frustration over the lack of control of her own life

saying quote i'm traumatized i'm not happy

i can't sleep

i'm so angry it's insane

even adding she wants to marry and have another child

ok mousetan let me ask you a question

mels stan i'm going to call your fucking bluff right now

if you can end stream do it

do it

i'm calling your bluff right now

if you can dstream do it

major life moments she says the current concern exactly

he you need three hundred k to ens stream

ship doesn't allow

her father's only response to the artist

stinging criticisms

was that he loves and misses her

the trouble for britty spears began in two thousand and seven

her girl next door image unraveling in front of the paparazzi who are always chasing her

capturing her every move

especially the uncomfortable moments

in the singer's personal life

the following year multiple health and psychiatric issues landed spears in the hospital in january

her father jamie spears filed a petition with the los angeles county superior court that february

to place her under a temporary probate conservatorship

jamie spears an attorney andrew wallelat becoming permanent coconservators of brittny's estimated sixty million dollar estate

in october two thousand and eight

her father getting control of her medical care

something spears spoke emotionally about saying quote

i want to be able to get married and have a baby

i was told i can't get married

i have an i u d inside me but this so called team won't let me go to the doctor to remove it

because they don't want me to have any more children

this conservatorship is doing me way more harm than good

usually most conservatorships in probate court

or for the elderly

people that have

i'm

have exhibited memory deficits or judgment deficits that are pervasive and most likely going to endure for the rest of their lives

but through all this brittney spears kept working well under this conservatorship

releasing several albums to that win platinum

what's up big

holding down her pieces of me las vegas residency reportedly earning her thirty million dollars and attorney andrew wallet resigned in the spring of twenty nineteen

leaving spearss father in control of just about every aspect of brittney's life

but last summer britnany pushed back

in legal documents her court appointed lawyer stating

britty is quote strongly opposed

to having her father as conservator

and requested that jamie be removed

instead

a judge in november added bessemer trust a private wealth and investment management firm

as a coconservator to oversee her estate

now spears wants to pick her own lawyer and as she said in court quote

i just want my life back

stephanie em c n

los angeles

to join me now to discuss samantha stark isses

samantha's a director of the documentary

framing brittany spears

i love the doc by the way samantha it was

really really great so thank you for that

and seen in legal alice joey jackson a criminal defense attorney joey always a pleasure to have you on

good to see you as well

joy so britnany spears one she has blue hair

what does this mean to end her conservatorship she has been

under it for nearly thirteen years she doesn't want to have a clear

she was she doesn't want have a clear health evaluation

she's thirty nine years old she's incredibly successful

will it happen what's going to happen

so it could don good evening to you so what happens is we obviously know that she's had her share of issues right she had some mental health problems a lot of people do

a that is a thing and so unfortunately with that and some alleged drug use or what have you

about thirteen years ago her father thought it was appropriate to act as her guardian lot of things at stake a lot of assets at stake a lot of decisions to be made

and a lot of predators quite frankly as it relates like britty's faz

breakney

i'm your father

i'm sickly nonsense and sickly a horse and around

you know

playing games with the media

you' know doing crazy shit

i am your father

britney i'm your father

this for your own good

as for your own good

he griffin ok sorry

so all of her monies and all of her income

and so there was this conservatorship and i think at that time perhaps for very good reason and that's continued over the course of the years to guide her

to look over her to ensure that things are as they should be

but now as she apparently gets better she's in court

uh indicating that she's competent she's able she's responsible and that she wants back in and so

look we live in a society where all of us should be able to attend to our affairs if we're competent and able to do so argument she's making is that she is and so to your question in the event that she can demonstrate to a court's satisfaction

after psychiatric and other evaluations happened that she

ain't a great fan

beat do

he'd a gree thin

height

we're going to read your debt strind if you can

especially it's

you're a vegan

especially if you're vegan

especially if you're a vegan

vegans definitely can't read it

are you kidding

i would never let a vegan read it

noa n noa no no no no no no no no no no

no neo no no no no

me

na no no no no no no no no

n n n

the

no no

no no no no no no

n no no no no noo no no no no no no no no no not labor aristocracy you' not labor aristocray

h

h

m

which one am i going to play michael meyers

desert bz

this looks mighty interesting

cops and robbers please fuk can't play anything get out of my house joined this one fuk no fuck in way

i wish you would tell me like what game it is

it's reach i'm going to be piss please no fords world i don't want fords world on to play l or something i don't want to fucking play

ah halo reach again

i wish you would tell me what game

honestly is this all halo reach

infection

ninjer

what is this shit sys cops and robbers this is cops and robbers here the goal is basically you tell prisoners what to do so where's the jail so r p you basically r p where is the prisons go

comm on you're back in jail the fok new what kind of cops and robbers is this this is where you become a prisoner they were leaving this

yeah

i don't want to play ach

is there anything here that's not reach

let me see anything that's not halo reach

among us

does the custom games browser have like non reach

has ford's release for non rechtyals yeah it has

multiplayer custom games browser browse

let me look that up on

oh it's a limited to a reach only

the custom game browser is now live within the m c c in this videoright go over everything you need to know about the custom game browser so stay tuned out the whole video to understand a the details have that like but if you

you can sort of by a map what you need to do to get to the cusom gamecribe let's get into the content here ok so when you boot up into the m c c right here what you need to do to get to the cusom game browser click on multiplayer and they'll see cusom game browser right there neth custom multiplayers so pretty much would makes sense right there and then you have option to browse which you can search for lobbies or you can create your lobby we just click on browser here because it's pretty straightforward we're below

in you can sort by session name game type you can sort by maps you can sort by players you can sort by paying as well which is super useful there's also a thatice little refresh but down here so if you want to jump in browse again things refresh is about every like thirty seconds or a minute yeah i think it's only for reach and see create oh yeah look at that it's only for reach it's on three

reach fuck that i thought it oh ok

i thought it was everything

i'm going to show you guys my forge maps

let me show you this forge map that i've been working on where's the map it's gone ahmn it's gone i literally had a cool map i was making like a year ago ahmn

jeze loay

joyes love ones

what is this

mm

e

um

thank

so basically

things guys

yes

um

when in doubt

when in dowbn

thing you gotta do

the thing you really gotta do

is

give advice to those who need it

so what kind of advice would you you guys need

look at the title

it's i know

the title

i'm here for you chad

i'm here for you

tell me what advice you need

give me give me your problem i'll give you my advice

go ahead

just pipe it in chat

should you be friends with your exx no

i was baby formed from a stork

how to get a diskour gf

basically what you gotta do is

you gotta do the following steps

number one

go to jail mother fucker that's what you first you gogta do

someone cheats on you should you fuck their friend

i am of the opinion you should falx a friend

if they don't cheat on you

but it seems like this is not going to get my viewers back

so let's um

let's move on to the next topic

um

bets

people love bets right

how do i become a sigma mal excellent

question

i am so glad you asked

the first thing you have to do

hold bye

no i don't want to do that

um

it's so hard to troll on any game honestly it's so hard to troll

that's smell of foccer okay

all right hon let's do this bit

ah what do you think a eh

ah

um

what a bit

see gus can you can you bet on that for me

can you bet on that for me

ok so it's got postponed to next

friday

we got postponed on next friday

mmhmm

no no

no no no no no no

no no no no no

everybody always cancels on the plans what am i to do

i theb be of minegarden on moon

and i'm trying so hard to convene with the chat i'm wn playing in games and you gone back reds ain't eraditated ma

i don'n know what to do

y is a mounning n

and every time that i am alive i'm telling you the truth

the trave me what do you got to do

now i been round town

or fifty years or more

but every time my men knew the snoringmor

and i'm telling you all right now that your beton's all forur vain and telling you the true buty ain't got the same

cause i'm trying so hard

to be in the c's reside

an i'm fishin like the fishes do

tellin them mll vegins got to do me what i'm doue and all the vegins come to me and try to tell the rules

but i tell you doggy dog i hear true

an somethin's i go fishin

an other times i'm huntin

the truth now you now that i'm denn a mi me in nothing

and everything iss a the don't evenmunt to nothing i tries o r they me go

there was a lady cross the lake and she said holl ard you do i rd with my boat over there and i went and took the loop

i took a big od shed in her out house for an hour and smelled so bad she kicked me out and took the lage and said you better shower that's the ory of my life

oh name will dom

now tomorrows rangers tell me what i gotta do

every time i'm singing i'm going to pick up trug in the mud

i din't my main my my windoan's hang come on chall go get your lighters out every time i'm singing i din't man my own meindoom

aomst singing thats pn a my made crew and then everybods singing hanging g thing nms hong amons haning ainting thing to my mad crew and i'm singing my miles ain ho minint and imagine a five hour stream of jazz singing like the game and i'm that

candlelights with singing and min's oman true and the truth there's nobody i choose except you i sang and i all the name then i'm drowning in my truck driviing through the waysland i'm run and i get stuck and i'm pulling down my truck and now i got again it

thk

hunting and fishing out there was saying nice hany a mymanj and thes there and i'm saying and ohnm time my mad thing and when the mo me well mo mean thing a wle and i

aund he the nam nm n ha na damn damn all truth you got your memory i'm righting the memys hom me and i me and i mey