UKRAINE-RUSSIA TRUTH (EXPOSING DISINFO) / UKRAINE IS LOSING [2022-03-31]

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all right guys we were not go do r p today we're going to news no time for or p start a little later than i wanted to but that's ok tomorrow you know tomorrow w'll start a lot earlier

in any case i uh want to talk about something before right and i might i might actually write

a substack first it's been almost a year since mean more than a year since i started on switch and instead of

commemorating the anniversary starting to get more a lot a lot more contemplated right and you know i realize something and the main thing i realized

i've always got shit on my nose i've always got shit in my nose always got shit in my nose but started to realize that i got to clean up my

i got to clean up my image and i got to clean

i got to clean everything up

first of all

i got to clean up the

my beard

so i'm going to go get this beer trimmed very soon probably tomorrow i'm going to go like get it cut get it trimmed like a lock because i can't even eat you know so that's the first thing then next on the agenda i need to get a d s l r camera and i don't know what camera i should get but i'm kind of i hate

this room i can't fucking stand this room i can't stand this room it's like yellow and i'm sick of being yellow has you know we have yellow parenti we don't need yellow has kh so i need a new camera no more yellow has k no more

this looks dirty this looks like piss it looks unprofessional it looks gross so i need a fucking new camera yeah i know the lighting is horrific because oh god it's horrific it's absolute p right it's a fucking hor i want to get out of this lead

east so bad and just get the fuck out of this place you know but i'll do something about it i'm kind of thinking of doing some dark maga lighting you know like glowing red sun i'must see what i could do about that i'm going to look into that yeah now i'm going to look into that i have to get rid of this fucking light this

yellow light bulb bright it's disgusting do you guys recommend a d s lr camera though like a better camera than this one because this is not working any more it's not working for me it's not working for you and we need to up the quality of this ship and i got to start taking care of myself more

and i want to i want to start getting a streamer outfits like you know i'm not going to wear a suit but i want to start like dressing up for stream like professionally you know this this shit is just like i'm still in the fucking jungles of vietnam right now you know this is not this is not this is not acceptable you

and then let me blow my nose ice uk and shit in my nose

i think i'm starting to realize i mean i've talked about it before but like this is actually a career i'm going to be making for myself this is going to be like a real career right i'm not i'm going to be

i think i'm dropping out of law school i just think i am and if i do that i have to start taking the shit more seriously you know

thank you noble woman appreciate you

you know there's a lot of shit that i don't want us to be so immature anymore i want to be a little more mature now i never took this shit that seriously you know but like now oh my god i have ily like after going to the c p i conference and stuff and it's like realizing that a lot of people do the they don't only take what i say

a seriously which is i care about but a lot of people do take my my me seriously as a person as a human being like my public persona and i always considered my trolling to be a way of disrespecting my enemies but it's also kind of disrespecting the people who respect you know

so yeah i want to clean up i want to clean up and i don't want to keep doing this bucking and i'm still going to joke and have fun i'm not going to like become boring but you know there's some means that we have to kill you know we got to kill some some of our like

think you bas socialist like you know

i'm really conflicted you know i think a lot of people just see me as like a thuggish

un serious person you know like

i don't know

my fan said that i win miss no

you know you know

t yeah like that's probably a good example you know the two holes thing that's it makes me cringe now it's a dead mean let's just fucking just not do that you know let's completely drop that shit like that that shit literally makes me fucking cringe now you know yeah kill that fucking mean it's a dead mean you know

we entertained it because i was getting a lot of attention over that little mistake that i made and it that doesn't need to be a community met you know it's just like do we really want that to be a commute it's fucking let's just retire that one guys this's just it's super cringy it's not it's not there's nothing funny about it you know

yeah it's gride let's completely fuck in and me yeah i know they exploded on twitter and they still do i think i don't know actually but yeah that's just so grun it's

soper and if i knew what it would be caom i would have never entertain it to begin with like i didn't know like you will care i don't know is this big of the thing you know back in to day i want to look up who mythic politics is first if mythic polits

ficks was a destiny orbiter because i know he's having destiny orbitters on his panel i don't know who he is if i'm going to look him up if you was the destiny orbiter i'm not going on the panel i'm only going to be promoting new fresh political streamers i'm not promoting destiny orbiters i'm going to let them fall off i am not

not in i'm not even going to interact with these orbiters anymore like there are a lot of them trying to leach off of me now i'm not saying he is because i don't know who he is

but others are trying to releech off of me now i mean it's not happening you know he got he's gone i'm not going to fuck and help you you're done you know be by yourself and collapse you can try to releech off us on if you want i doubt he's going to accept your shit or give you anything you know he's not coming down from his mountain so i'm putting that behind

i'm not going to give them anything i'll collapse yeat are there russian political streamers because i would collab with them in a heartbeat yeah if there are what about the whole pep aesthetic in the soychad vocabulary there are some things that you're not going to retire like there's some things that are inevitable right i'm just saying

i just want to be a little more mature about this guys i'm a twenty five year old man you know and i haven't been taking this that seriously i've just been kind of fucking around and i said i have to start taking it more seriously i got to start being more mature and shit you know i can't

can do this silly shit

i can't keep doing this silly shit you know

no more g trp

no we'll still do g t o p

we'll still do that it's just like

we'll still do that it's just like i'm not going to have no sense of humor i'm just like i'm really over this fuck in i'm oll i'm over the fuck i feel like that's so twenty twenty one you know yeah comic relief is cool

but sometimes i do overdo the means and then my mediterranean temperament takes over and i actually do start like showing a lot of passion and shit and whatever it's just like i do' you know it's a waste of my time and energy i don't want to have anything to do with that you know

e tu la wi ah songd de tu

why do you want to drop out of school thank you sir

and we face something guys like which streamers are bombs i'm a bomb lipshit army

invaded your thread i know i'm going to fuking address that it's actually crazy i'm going to address that it's actually insane but i'm going to clean up guys you know another difference with what's going on is that i have a t

now you know that's also in media and shit and you know like people like samira they've been helping me a lot like a lot

like

more than anyone honestly literally more than anyone you know

ever

so that's been extremely extremely like

helpful you know

because i'm going to be honest with you guys for a long time

i was free falling i was like holy shit

i wasn't saying holy shit i was like you know fuckt i got nothing i don't go a fuk about anything i' was going to do whatever you know but yeah i was going down the fucking twitch de gen rabbitle which i don't you know

some of them make a lot of money i know it's interesting it's interesting

you know the whole russia a lot of things have just danged you know been a repucking roller goes through

but you know i'meah i could really see why some people think i'm a grifter i could honestly you know i just i could see it you know i just try to approach it like what if i was just a random person who stumbled upon me like what i think of mean i was like yeah i could i could see but who the foxs this bo with the beard yelling with a yellow buck in camera what is this guy's problem you know

is he even talking about i get it i honestly get it i understand it

like you can't really take it that seriously holy shit like i look like a jackass you know like it's like i look like a jackass you know and i understand that i really do i really understand how i look like a jackes you know but i want to up the level of seriousness

someonant to up the scale the quality you know i want to make this more professional want to make it look better

and

you know i'm not going to pretend to you like i'm some

i will never pretend to you guys that i'm like an established guy with credentials like oh yeah i'm some big shot you know i

taking it to you

i have a ph d in journalism i don't i'm just a random fuckin

arab guy from dearborn michigan but i've started to actually realize that i have a responsibility to take this serious you know like a lot of people do take me seriously and i have a responsibility to actually like be more mature about this you know i can' just like just go alive and just fuck in

i can't go i'm acting like a homeless person i'm actually acting like a crackhead you know i've been acting like a crackhead who stole a mobile phone and goes live on instagram on fucking

aleck baldwin's a counters some shit you know like imagine some like hollywood celebrity lost their phone and a homeless guy picked it up just went live and started just doing crazy brackhead shit like that's what i've been doing you know and i got to start taking my platform a little more seriously

i can't act like a bum like this you know

augustins shc

that is the exactly thish the business suit

i feel so bad sometimes because i know there's a lot of people a lot of people right good people who like

just get a first impression of me and they're like off fuck i don't want anything to do with this shit this guy's fucking crazy this guy's literally like you know this guys a fucking thegent i get that i understand been usedords you know your story what prompted

this well remember that talk you remember how i was thinking about madernity and shit

and like how like something happens where it's like everything you did was wrong like somehow everything changes i feel like that's what happens when i get live you know with infrared like maybe you take me seriously first and then one or two things happen which change everything you know and it's like i will never have a

clean image i know that i'll never have a clean image ever you know

it's so weird how that works psychologically because it's like

people people like

the way the human brain works is like if you see me

you going to think i'm a guy who's like on crystal meth twenty four seven like thinking about all this like um trivial shit like you know i don't know people people always say i'm insecure that i give so much i don't know like whenever whenever you let me tell something whenever you see another human being

being on the internet the first thing you're going to think is like why are they here what's their message what are they about what are they trying to accomplish really trying to do it's like fe like a lot of people see me some ut people like just from on the outside and they see me and they're like this guy's like he's he gives a he cares about shit that doesn't matter you know

being too harsh on myself

i don't know

ll i've always been that way you know but sometimes i feel like i'm not harsh enough you know

yeah yeah streaming more in the day is like my very short term goal like my very very short term goal you know that that lecture i gave yesterday about madernity guys what i really need to start doing is mastering the way it's not just optics it's more fundamentally like how there can be these ruptures in

the timeline and if i want to if i believe that my timeline my destiny is the correct one that i've said for myself i need to focus on that one and stop freaking out and stop being so sensitive

when another timeline emerges like

when people create a narrative about me based on optics i'm really starting to realize that i really do need to just focus on what i believe like like

i know people say don't give it attention but it really is kind of that simple like i used to be a guy who would go live and i would literally interact with literally every single hostile and negative form of attention directed at right and now i'm like i'm always

reaching out of the fact like how could they make this false image of me and turn me into someone that i'm not and what i understand right now is that like i need not be intimidated by that you know i youed not be intimidated that by that and just a confidence and and what i believe is the truth and

focus on that you know because the more i feed the more i try to like push back and tell the truth the more i'm feeding the beast of an image that's false right like i'm feeding it you know and i kind of also used to do that a little bit for content and views

and i feel like i don't need to do that anymore you know i feel like i've already established myself and i've gotten the attention that i wanted so now i just want to also if

f i do think that there needs to be interventions and optics i am not going to be the one to do it i'll have other people intervene right i'll send the guerrilla army to do the side psychological worker sh if i really feel like ok we need a we need to like pushback on this bullshit right so i understand that

what the sun is going do that's getting out of bridge soly liv in s love you may maye liv in love ma may be me and now i am in your love ma be no this day

like there's unlimited means about me on the internet and that'll always be true because i knw that would be the case when i started streaming and specifically started streaming on wwich so it's like i know i always know that's going to be the case you know and i'm fine with that i'm fine with there being unlimited means about me on the internet you know

but to be honest i owe a lot of these like new friends that i've goten you guys know i've never had friends before right real friends you know like like for example today i was thinking about this and i called logo

for advice you know i talked to him for a little bit and i was telling him about this and he was giving me some pretty good advice but like you know what to do and it's like i you know i can actually get people to you know that in good faith do kind of give me good advice and shuld you know also

again samira's been like helping me a lot you know a lot so yeah i o her a lot like a on literally like nobody on the internets helped me as much as to here you know and then obviously jackson number one ally you know so

yeah like actually having a network of people who are on the same page with you and

it's so refreshing you know i've never had that before you know i've never had that beae you know i would really like people who forgive me you know i like people who forgive me

for the crazy shit i've done on the internet you know i've done a lot of crazy crazy shit

i've done things i didn't even know were going to turn out to be a big deal like especially on twitter like

you guys remember my old twitter like i didn't even know i didn't even think twitter was going to be a thing for this long i was like ok they bann trump so butter is clearly going to like fall off in like twenty twenty two or so and it didn't yet you know so i really like didn't talking take twitter seriously i just you know

ah

oh

like i treated it as just a fucking joe right but i you know i i'm starting to understand that

i can't just treat my image or my personality like a fucking joke you know

people take it seriously people give it

oh forver

people expect more from me you know whatre is a joke i do think it's a joke

hours pater

i do think it's a joke

but um

i'm more into the dark aesthetic now you know i'm in the bact i like the batman aesthetic i was kind of soul searching and wandering because i realized that old age of irony is over right and now is the age of reconciliation but the way we're going to get there is through the dark aesthetic you know some

i think i'm going to shift my aesthetic from being a clown does you like on twitter i'm going to switch from being a clown to the darkesth that you know i like that one and as far as my twitch you know i'm still going to be me i'm still going to be myself and you know farm kick w in the chat but

yeah also this is the year i'm going bad one hundred percent i think yeah one hundred percent i'm going bad this year that's a thing

it's also the year i'll probably get a hair transplant now i'll get a hair transplant yeah i'm going to go to turkey i'm just saying i'm going to clean up my image you know i'm going to clean my beard

mrrow actually i think of friday you to change your voice change my voice to what change it to what are what you a ben i'm not thinking what do you mean change my

voice you remain ntty always forever i will always be nt forever for all eternity is long as i exist i'll be ntty i think friday i'm not i'm going to go visit my family friday

an to be afraid afraid to die

are you training boxing no i was never training boxing am i going to get back to training what i was training before austin yeah i think i will i think i will i think i'm going to take my time though

yeah i think i will you done the bench press video to collect your money no i still haven't gone to a freeway gym i know the don'nor link is broken i don't w

jim doesn't have free weights also even if it did thank you jenhn even if it did i need a spotter because i'm pretty sure so i'm going to do two videos i'm going to do the one video of two thirty five which

is an easy five hundred but then i'm also going to max i'm going to try to max my bench like i want to like what is the most i can do what is the most i can do yeah i'm still trying to get out lease but like what is the most i can do

i think it is going to be at least over three hundred it's got to be over three hundred yeah so hans of hanik here

said that i have to send him a video of me doing

one wrap

of two thirty five

and i get five hundred dollars from him

t

thirty eight

we'd be standing in the road illing like we all

yeah all i have to do is do one rerap of two thirty five

i don't know why he he uh offered that but

yeah

yeah yeah i'm still confused about that too you know i mean maybe if you said ten raps i'd be like ok i don't know

but one just one measly wret

i feel i can ave

i feel i can lose a mortal and mortal and mortal

no not k g

hunch of shut the fuck up you know every time i do some reflection or self criticism the dumbt the resident dumb masses of the chat pilot and they're like o but also no not also you know just because i'm admitting the fact that i may have not been going you know maybe that i made

mistakes doesn't you know i mean it's almost like you know this is like when ma did that kind of like let a thousand flowers bloom campaign res ok guys write some criticisms of of you know what the how things have been going so far and then all the dumb asses started to pour in after a while and there were also communism stst and miles hold on you know

we did we didn't mean it like that you know and then he shut it down right and that's a lot of the times that's what happens when i do these public selss like people pour in and there like i don't i really take issue with the fact in that's not how it works just because i was wrong about one thing doesn't mean

have lost all credibility

why did russia go int to kiev and other regions rather than just staying the dawn bass ah thats simple so what they said this is like them i'm pretty much paraphrasing them they didn't want the ukrainian military to be able to replenish supplies for its attacks against the dawnbass so they wanted to take out ukraine's

military infrastructure all across ukraine to prevent them from replenishing their shit talk about anything combat or fitness for one minute straight and i'll give one hundred sonws ok easy easy ok so first i'll talk about fitness it's a

joe youre you're own thin ice i'm going i might just that might be your fucking timeout for the day every fucking

dream cho's gota say some shit where we got a sa ok onch so you're done for the day go home every single day and his dude is on thin ice and he's getting close

thank you sushi sophia thank you all right well

get a heir transplant don't go to look bronze guy

all right uh i just want i don't want to focus too much attention on this so as you guys know the russian ruble has almost completely recovered like almost entirely recovered right um

ften

thk

and i made a tweet about it right and it's actually extremely surreal like what you're going to see

so first let's check the quote tweets i just i know you guys don't care too much but it's like

b

like everyone is mocking me saying that i'm stupid

all right so this was just a little surreal to me tell me what you guys think

and i just maybe i haven't been on the internet that much

but everyone's mocking me saying i i thought this was the parity account he can't be that stupid

guys are we going to tell him are we going to tell him

and the reason they're saying that is because

actually one rouble is only worth one cent

and that's why they're mocking me because they're basically saying like

like houses so they're saying i'm dumb as rocks and i'm the biggest dumbss man lets are rising i can't because

they're trying

yeah

this is what i was talking about by the way but

at least you guys might empathize with why i made all the mistakes i did they were like

you know

they're trying to say that what i really meant

was that the ruble is worth more than a dollar

because there's more rubles than dollars

so they're all calling me stupid saying

is no one going to tell has

that this actually means the rubles worth less than the dollar

and i was thinking about making a tweet on this and responding to these people

but because i've been reflecting i was no i'm not going to feed into it you know they just

but

someone here is like stupid right and i'm

i'm like the ant establishment guy i'm the guy who's telling everyone

that everything they think about the world is wrong and everything you see on mainstream media is wrong

so it's like

how are all of these like mainstream people

this is hilarious please don't delete it

ya but

the idiots think that every currency has to be one to one to dollar

no that's not the point

oky

um

can i explain to you guys the point

please

so

when the invasion

or the special military operation happened

the rubo

started to exchange it got up to

one hundred and forty

rubles per dollar

which means that there was inflation

so

all these liberal streamers were mocking me like

haws are you going to pay that in roubles because the ruble became worthless right

or it wasn't worthless but it like it lost it's like devalued by

you know one hundred percent

right

so

what this actually

means is that

the ruble recovered thank you phost girl

thank you ghost girl but

it's crazy

thank you appreciate it but

ah

what did you say

miss os

well

you know

i don't know to tell you

whose fault with whose fault

it's not my fault

anyway

ah

what was i saying

ya so

all i was trying to say was this

is that

and i'm trying to be extremely patient right now like

i've i've been uh

reflecting on my anger levels and my anger management and all that stuf so i'm just really trying to be patient

but all i was trying

not it sounds bad when i say it

it just sounds like

it's it almost does sound like i'm coping even though like

it's simple right it's just that the ruble has fully recovered

from the inflation

that was

a result of the sanctions

right

and that's literally all i'm saying

that the ruble recovered

you guys see my fucking problem

it's like i don't explode in anger over ship like this

how could the fulking majority of people be this fucking stupid

and then when i exploded in anger

and how fucking stupid they are

you're likew you're such a low cow you're so sensitive and you get angry so easily

but like this is so absurd

this is actually bucking insane

this is hilarious please don't deleute it

let elemo one dollar's worth eighty five roubles i think they're saying i told you so

so my lovely country currency is worth more than russia's

but that's not that's not the point

you were all mocking the russian currency

because of the loss to the currency's value

because of the sanctions in a special military operation

well it does it just return to the pre invasion levels and that's the all fucking point

nobody's saying that the ruble was a particularly high value currency

relative to the dollar nobody was saying that

oka

forget about the details of currencies not no one was saying that what we were trying to say is that it

fully recovered

and that the sanctions didn't work and they failed to do what they were intended to do which was destroy the russian economy

and i don't fucking understand

how

this shit happens to me because

like i said guys

i'm the anti establishment guy

i'm the fucking guy

mm

makes a ruckus and i'm the i'm the one who's like bringing negativity and i i'm supposed to be wrong

what it's like

how can i be so fuck and correct

and it does really

anger me i'm telling you the truth it does

bring me

profound fugking anger

it does bring me profound fucking anger and i don't i don't know what to tell you guys

you know

i mean is it possible for the mainstream to be this stupid

you know what i want to do guys

i want one of these people to get in my v c right now can i please

i want a pro ukrainian destiny viewer diyllon burn's viewer

any of you guys on the other side of the aisle get in my show quue

and i just want you to just

calmly explain to me

he rings you anger because of your tiny brain

so when i explode in anger at a comment like that people are like cas he was just trolling you and baiting you

was he or was that a guy who actually believes

that this makes me look stupid

i mean anyone in good faith has to admit

that the ruble recovered in value

gaslighting has been normalized in the air for the past decade

they're pretending to be stupid to make your blood boil and stress you out

they weren't trolling there legitimately stupid

yeah but these people are not supposed to be stupid these are supposed to be the educated parts of our society

that's what i'm trying to say

these are supposed to be the educated

parts of our society

these aren't supposed to be the dumb fulks

i mean it's just

i don't know what to say i literally don't know what to say

like yeah is this is this a troll like look at this

look oh god hawz is so stupid

oh god one dollar equals a hundred pennies

you guys think it brings me comfort to have to be angry

you know it almost kind of helps and soothes me when people like has you're just a fucking freaking out because you're coping

reality's fine

now reality is not fin n life

please tell me

how i'm i supposed to react

to the educated parts of our society

literally not understanding

that this means the ruble has recovered

i just want someone to like

defend these people can someone make the case

that these people are correct

can someone just please defend them for me

like please just defend them can you please defend the comments

mocking me and attacking you for saying this

look how far you've been pushed

when this first started you were saying some really dumb shit now we're here the rubles the last thing you're clinging on to

what are you saying i literally just said

why are you being silent about the recovery of the russian ruble and everyone saying

that this is somehow making me look stupid like look at this guy this is hilarious please don't delete it

here just in case he self deletes

and there

ah is this bots is this a bot

is this a real person or is this a boss

this isn't a parity account this morn doesn't understand the concept of buying power

oh this is a twitch partner

thank god

so we can actually hold them accountable by debating them

we're not debating but just having them explained to us

what do you mean by this

what what do you mean

what does that have to do with the ruble recovery in value

because

i distinctly recall

the lipshits mocking the destruction of the russian economy

because the ruble was a

trading at one hundred forty

per u s dollar

so now the ruble's gone back to its pre invasion level which means the sanctions didn't work

they think you said what you didn't say

someone please record all these comments and make a video about it

i want to make this a max if you're in the chat

please get all of these comments

like make a video for youtube and let me release this on youtube because

the public deserves to know

mike

and get all the quote tweets as well get all the quote tweets and comments

so we can make it a youtube video

stop taking them personally let them wallow in their stupidity

this is why i've been defeated

this is the sort of thing you should ignore that you said at the start of the stdream

i know but it's like i also want to see how you guys

react to this because it's like

should we just overlook it or is there a deeper truth to be gleaned from the fact that like

we just get these direct cases in which

forms of stupidity which are usually very rare and how direct

and

like indisputably wrong they are

are just so crystal clear like this is a guy with

you know this guy gets eighty three likeks

there's a ton of people in you know

pointing out how this is worth less than the uus dollar which is

wyat twitter is a minority most people don't use it

but it's like how does no one hold

take note of this or hold these people accountable and just be like

like

you know what you know like you know the way i think was like i would imagine like an account that like is compiling screenshows like

holy shit i can't believe how fucking stupid people are

and it should get like five thousand likes you know like

holy shit people actually don't know that

this means the ruble recovered and it

it has nothing to do with

whether the ruble is worth more than a dollar it's just the fact that the ruble recovered

eight

like what do you think inflation means inflation is when

it

goes up relative to the dollar it inflates

that's what it means

you can reply to your own tweet with a clarification call out all the idos

no i can't

because

if i do that then suddenly

suddenly i'm coping and i'm walking back what i originally meant

which is apparently that the ruble is worth more than the us dollar

that's what they're saying i said no

who cares they say you're coping

we'd be feeding the beast

you know

i've never seen this

ever on this website

i have never seen this

i have literally never seen this

i have never seen such a black and white contrast ever

is is thats how it is

no it's not please show me other examples

like have you ever seen so many people so confidently be wrong

yeah yeah

h you're right i shouldn't take it seriously

but

i just feel like i'm creating these

alchemical contradictions that are just like

nuclear just splitting the atom just

showcasing how stupid people are in a way that shouldn't be allowed

like it

shouldn't the cia come and clean up this thread like holy shit guys you're not supposed to be that wrong openly you know

should i make a tweet should i just be like

please

look

at the quote tweets and replies of this tweet

and you will understand

why sometimes

i lose my mind on this website

we went

from the ruble recovering

to pre

operation levels

to

the ruble

being worth

less than the dollar

as if

that's even relevant

but this sounds it just no i shouldn't i shouldn't

i shouldn't have to say this cacuse it sounds like

you know i always every time i do this

they're like haws you're coping

it's a cope

okay

k

upi down

the sky isn't blue the grass isn't green

freedom is slavery

truth is falsehood

no i'm not even going to respond to it fuck it i'll just

i'll just leave it there but it's like

i

i wish people could take note of it you

i wish people could just take note of it

i wish people could just take note of it

hey you know i don't really care what your ideology is i don't really care like

what your opinion is like

can anyone just at least admit that

people responding to this are literally fucking

no of course they're not stupid

course not

there

ah

people have taken note of this behavior on twitter check whispers

well max sd is making that video and that's all i need honestly i just need that fucking video

when i have that video will be fine

yeah

that's literally it

k there's a streamer that i'm going to follow right now

curarent ly itds a russian streamer

then a following

but let me give a lesson in optics to infrared supporters because i'm actually going to do i criticize myself and i'm going to criticize

argentinian e m here ok

so i'm just going to give you a little lesson because you guys should be better than this honesty you should be better

this guy goes

one ruble is worth one cent

and look at what you did

you took the bait

and now you're addressing something completely irrelevant

all you would have to say is resply to this and you would just have to go

what the fock does that have to do with anything

the ruble

recovered from the inflation created

by the

western sanctions

which you

claims

was destroying the russian economy

like all you would have to do is say this

but instead you decided to go on a tangent

about the nature of how currencies work and honestly

argentinian f f m i'm sorry to scold you like this

but you did us more dirty than this person did

you've fucked us over more than this person

because the din't dignified their points

you'd have made it seem like their point was even relevant

and that that's this is what we're talking about

why even respond

to this point that they're trying to make

when the whole fucking point is that it recovered to pre operation levels

why are you even dignifying

like the arguments about why the ruble is worth

a cent

it's always been worth a cent

that's been true

we a long time now right

dude he was trying to help

but as you can see he didn't actually fucking hell

he actually didn't help

helping

would have just been pointing out that this isn't relevant

he made me look like a fucking gmass

he made it seem like i was trying to say the ruble is worth more than the dollar

of course it's not fucking worth more than the dollar the russian economy

is obviously weaker than the u s economy of course the russian economy is poorer than the u s economy

like why are you what you're like coping you're like oh it has a lower rate against the dollar but actually the ruble's more com no it's not the ruble is worth less than the dollar because the russian economy is worth less than the u s economy

everyone fuckin knows that

like you made us look more fucked stupid than

you know than our enemies because you just argued with a completely irrelevant point

don't defend this behavior chad correctly

don't dignify like

a lot of the times i see you guys on twitter

and someone will be like

a i don't know they'll say some like slanderous shit they'll be like

what is some embarrassing shit someone could make up onbo me you' be

h

pauses a furry or some shit and you gves it actually there's nothing wrong with being a furry that's how you guys operate

why do you always assume that the enemies aren't just lying

ok

guys like someone will make a tweet

the'll be like haz eats babies and you'll be like actually babies are very nutritious

no that's not what you're supposed to be doing

you're supposed to be saying has doesn't eat babies

because i don't

you know

i'm sorry but you guys need a scolding about the way you're defending my optics

on social media

i we do need a purge so fucking badly like we really need one so fucking badly so fucking badly

and i just i'm really close to just

going ham no mercy you know like we need to purge so badly because it's like

i can't fuck and believe how stupid my community is sometimes and i'm sorry i know you guys

you need this falcon harsh

scolding you need this har scolding you like

you don't understand anything you guys

you guys get si uped by my enemies my enemies will say that haz eats babies

and instead of questioning whether that's true you'll be like oh actually babies are nutritious

it's really disturbing to me because you guys know you guys should know better

and not be so mentally weak

so as to entertain my enemi'es arguments you know

remember the stool picture

they're like ah haz was standing on a stool

you guys would be like

actually there's nothing wrong with standing on a stool

and a podium because podiums are often manufactured to be too big for

like

why do you why do you even say that just just

point out the truth is that i you know

what why even do that it's fucking cringe it's so cringy you know

it's so craingzy

yeah it's taking the bait

you're just taking a fucking bait

whose i see it all the time on twitter

in my community is always disappointing me on twitter

instead of just

telling the truth you always just like

take the bait

you know

like

yeah

why pretend like sanctions aren't killing the russian economy because they're not

because the rubles recovered

to the levels

before the war so it's not

dam

ten

liquid the problem is that there are huge amounts of people

who think this like this is what i was like this is somehow

relevant

and he's dignifying that relevancy by responding to it

i think i just need to be at peace with the fact

literally everyone says this

but in our case it's like objectively fuck and true

to the point where a

it's objective truth

these people are j

the mainstream are genuinely fucking stupid

that's not an opinion

it's not an opinion that they're fucking stupid

it is literally objective truth it's like

i would love for anyone to get in my vc and defend these responses please get in my vc and defend these responses

you know what should i like call stardust or someone and just be like he can you look at this tweeed and defend these responses for me

can you please like defend the way people are responding to this

can you like actually explain or defend that

ok is she online

let me see

don't dignify these yeah you're right

but is are there any other libshits that i can like

ask to be held accountable for this

's yeah it's mind boggling

it bubbles

bubbles is here hopefully this will be one of them

hello

hello

hello

hello

hello

hello

hello

hello

all right so start ust

i just want you to defend something really quick that's coming from your side of the aisle

it becae i

yeah yeah i just think i think it belies like any um

rationalp so i consider myself i want to try and like

i'm known for being like a very unhinged person right

ok

like i'm a lunatic right

some people say yeah yeah

sure

so i'm actually gonna be very calm

i want to be as rational as possible i go to do my best effort to be rational

so

i posted this tweet

and i said

two libshits liberals right

maybe you take offense with the offensive language let's just say to li i don't really

i don't care yeah i said

remember when you kept mocking the inflation of the russian ruble so do you know what that's referring to

mmhmm

the inflation of the russian ruble

uh just invade inflation in their economy

or

well do you know what happened to the value of the ruble after the

special military operation

it droped significantly right exactly

fine

soony said why' so silent now

then i posted a picture showing that

the ruble is now

at

free operation levels eighty dollars per dollar

right

mhmm

so your viewers

right destiny's yours

mmhmm

uh

please just go to the tweet and check the replies please

i'm trying to find let me sey i'm trying to find it sorry

do you think you can link it to me

yes

so here you go

oh where'd you post

yeah ok i just want you to like de

like make sense of why they're responding this way

let's see how they're responding

flighting the rible would mean they're paying too much for it and igree the rles worth less than the

very

but

but is

and also check the court tweets

uh did

you are you seeing what people are saying

yeah somebody posted a mean about one dollar equals one hundred pennies

what else are people are saying

look at math not mathing

did you see the guy who said this is hilarious please don't delete it

um

i didn't see that but i believe that

so what's going on

h

one united states dollar

equals eighty three point five

i guess they're saying that

i guess they're i don't know i guess they're saying that it's still really bad even if it's better

than before

um

it's really bad

because of what

i don't know that they're putting it

because

so

they're saying that it's really bad

despite the fact that it got better are they acknowledging that i was saying it got better are they just saying

well first of all what is the

what's the mistake that i made according to them

i think that according to them they just think it's funny

even if it got better it's still really bad is what what they think is funny

i guess

no they're not they're saying please don't delete this it's embarrassing so i clearly made a mistake can you

inform me on the mistake that i made

and also if i'm talking about

people who were mocking the inflation of the russian rule

not the value of the russian ruble

in general but the specific inflation that happened because of the operation

why would the russian rule

be

relatively

worth less

have any relevance before the operation

isn't the whole point that

russia's economyes being destroyed because of their actions and the ruble went sky high

and now the ruble's becoming worthless and it's infl it's getting out of control and how much it's

losing value isn't that what

was being said

i don't know

i'm going to be real with you dude i'm i've been like i took an edible but you i would love to talk to like

your viewers or any of the

economy experts to like please

explain

the response its twenty i mean the only thing that i can see here from one of my one of my fears is they're saying like

you're talking about

a

you're talking about a bunch of accounts with like seven followers

you know and that you shouldn't care about it or whatever

but yeah but the but but hold on but these are like the

destiny viewers and your viewers and it's like these are the people who

or mocking me for being stupid it's like aren't

aren't i supposed to be the wrong one and the stupid one

i don't know i gess they're just that i guess they're just saying it's not a w they're just saying like why are you treating this like a w when it's not a w

i can hook you up with a cono boy though if you want

yeah bring him in

ok let me message him and see if he's free

os i thought i'm supposed to be the one who's wrong all the time and it's kind of rare that

we can see like that being tested in a

indisputable way but it's like

i'm really curious about whether people know

about

the fact that

this means the russian ruble has fully recovered

from pre

invasion levels

i messaged him i don't know if he' is free right now

yeah because it's like i'm getting a lot of flak from this

and

that that worries me i mean doesn't it kind of worry you that like the people who are supposed to be correct

are not

um

be se

honestly dude i am

what i means look

would your side of the aisle treat me in like bad faith way of course not so like

someone's got to explain what's going on here you know like someone's got to like exke sense of it

you know

m

i

nobody says

ok let's see

ausan somebody asked a a russian market still closed

well all i did was post a picture showing that the ruble

is where it was before

the operation

and

we have to get to the bottom of why destiny's followers are saying that this is a

pace

this is like a mistake that i made

maybe i maybe i i was wrong

and that this is not how much the rouble's worth right now

but

if you ask me startus it kind of sounds like they're trying to say that

the point of this post

was me trying to say the ruble's worth more than the dollar

yeah yeah that i think you might be right honestly i'm not going to disagree with you on that that seems kind of like what it is here it seems like people are just saying like oh yeah even if it's better than it used to be and it's almost like where it was pretty and pre

korirea invasion

and this isn't really a real win for you so well when you admit that what they're trying to say is that

they read this tweet

to mean that i'm saying the rouble's worth more than the dollar because

eighty three is more than one

yeah

yeah i din't say that

yeah

ok so does that does that evn some

illteracy of

the

situation as far as the russian economy is concerned like

is interpreting my tat that way like does that

actually say anything about destiny's viewers and your viewers

but that is necessarily my viewers who are doing this even what it looks like

um

but you know they're going to be just dumb asked people on the internet w on so way are you saying that these people are dumb

that are responding this way

well if they're interpreting it as you saying that

you think that the that that the russian ruble is bigger than the united states dollar

then yeah they're dumb idiots yeah but that's what they're saying

yeah so then they're dumb idiots yeah those are that's d g g those are destiny's followers

but i mean if they're his followers they're probably not the smart ones

all right that's all i needed

i just wanted to see someone like

admit that

that's all i wanted i just wanted to see someone admit that

literally that's it

like that's all i wanted to do was see someone admit that

literally that's all i wanted

like i it's almost surreal

it's almost fucking surreal

yeah please someone clip that

yeah someone clipp that

so i can post it or posted in the fucking replies

that's all i wanted i just wanted like

i just don't i'm sick of feeling crazy you know i just want like some sanity to return

why were you relieved

m

because these people are so confident and it's just like

how can you be so confident

and so wrong

don't

it's like mind boggling

yeah

a this white nervosa got almost a hundred likes

hosting this

right we're going to move on to another topic

charmhole start ust you will never

stop

stop fucking scamming that

stop spamming that

stop spend much time that shit out

don't

i don't condone that shitk

i don't condone that shit don't fucking swam that in my chat

did i disavow i disavow

i totally disavow that ok

a

so wow

really insane

speaking of the devil

you clipped it

it's like

bh

let me see that clip

asked people on the internet are you saying that these people are dumb

that are responding this way

well if they're interpreting it as you saying that

you think that the that that the russian ruble is bigger than the united states dollar

then yeah they're dumb idiots yeah but that's what they're saying

yeah so then they're dumb idiots yeah those are that's d g g those are destiny's followers

but i mean if they're his followers they're probably not the smart ones

all right that's all i needed

i just wanted to see someone like

admit that

that's all i wanted i just wanted to see someone admit that

literally that's it

mass people

holy fall

i don't even know what to say like

i have to master this art

i have to master the art of like manoeuvring stupidity you know

i got a master of the art

yeah

so the first thing we're going to get and that's that is that n

so algen zero

he at in a little b

al jazea is reporting on wounded

people

from urbin

ok

i'm sure

dylan burns is also reporting on this in a similar way

so these are the wounded people in the ambulance that are being brought from urbin

mccanwa rbama

yani town call in mezid mean el marda i mean a

me many a tim islat hom mean tilkelmanato meandakel

araben

fairly and

felion is the heart

andyhunan az on was sol ba ladin asad of the familyyet is dethel urban

and not bath ladina cootination o'connll apparently that's

what's going on

in a sado family

start us this back

yeah

baloney man

baloney

what i sent you some i sent you some tweets ok in your d m

look at them okay it's very important the message is the bology has okay

i

we're not doing this

we don't we don't have time

it's just tweets with a picture of actual fucking baloney like

the food

it's just ok ha

sana donm humor s and l humor

that hill urban and nast

eithn and the had he knocked on mazal orra mazzin

did me heay het st

alright ya

anyway

so speaking of the whole thing i i know yesterday we kind of got into like a

a little bit of confusion because

peskov apparently was saying that

they're going to have time

to buy

russian gas

in rubles the're not going to have to switch to rubles immediately

perky it's not the case

because putin saying that starting tomorrow

april first

europe needs to buy russian gas

in rubles

which is very refreshing and very beautiful

already today

yeah

we may even see the value of the rouble

go up

um

even compared to the pre operation levels

you know

show you

what

what

what

hello

what's going on

analysis of what turn up your volume

group all

general chat

look i've been doing some technical analysis on the ruble it's very important it's in general

please look

look

what do you think

what

do you literally have anything to say

do you

if you don't actually

you will get ban from the server forever

you're going to you're going to

show me how fucking dumb i am so go ahead

go ahead

hello

hello

you have literally fifteen seconds

to type and come on so request with the fuck is going on with your mike

or you are parma ban

fifteen

fourteen

thirteen

twelve

eleven

ten

nine

eight

seven

six

be

four

three

two

where he's typing let him type

i can't hear or speak so fix your fucking

settings

fix your settings

i can't believe these dullb masses will get in my v c and they just go

i can't hear or speak then why are you in v c

before you focking get in v c

you make sure your ship works

this is like a fuckin ashole who runs in front of line and cuts everyone

gets to the front of the line at fucking mcdonald's or some shit

and then just stands there and goes

i don't have any money

then what do you want

what do you want

and why are you standing there then what are you doing

the fuck do you want me to do about

free

that

tablishes rules

on selling russian natural gas with the so colled unfriendly states

we

suggest

to the

contractors from such country ites a transparent

and

if you don't understand

seized him to buy russian natational gas they have to

open a brubal account in russian banks

these accounts will be used to pay for the gas

that will be

suppli starting from tomorrows starting from april first of twenty twenty two

if such payments are not made

we will consider it

as

failing to perform

the contract

by the buyer

with all the consequences

followed

by these

no one is selling anything for free so we are not going to

be involved in charity as well so the current contriy

will be stop

today i signed a decree

that

establishes rules

on selling russian natural gas with the so colled unfriendly states

we

suggest

to the

contractors from such country ites a transparent

and

if you don't understand

seized him to buy russian natural gas they have to

open a brubal account in russian banks

these accounts will be used to pay for the gas

that will be

suppli starting from tomorrows starting from april first of

he said it's working last chance literally last chance

hello

hello

that's a pma ban that's a falk and proerma ban

that's a falckon prorabin

ban forever

literally for all time

literally banned forever

literly banned forever

with no right to appeal

with literally no right to appeal banned forever

twenty twenty two

if such payments are not made

we will consider it

i'm not an assual every time i start fresh as a good person

i realized i was always justified in almost everything i did

almost everything i did has been justified almost everything

i've made like one mistake

ever

as

failing to perform

the contract

by the buyer

with all the consequences

followed

by these

no one is selling anything for free so we are not going to

be involved in charity as well so the current country

will be stop

today i signed a decree

that

tablishes rules

on selling russian natural gas with the so colled unfriendly states

we

suggest

to the

contractors from such country ites a transparent

and

if you don't understand

seized him to buy russian natational gas they have to

open a brubal account in russian banks

these accounts will be used to say for the gas

that will be

suppli starting from you tomorrows starting from april first of twenty twenty two

if such payments are not made

we will consider it

as

failing to perform

the contract

by the buyer

with all the consequences

followed

by these

no one is selling anything for free so we are not going to

be involved in charity as well so the current cotry

will be stop

today i signed a decree

that

establishes rules

on selling russian natural gas with the so called unfriendly states

we

suggest

to the

contractors from such countriy ites a transparent

and

if you don't understand

seized him to buy russian natural gas they have to

open a brubal account in russian banks

these accounts will be used to say for the gas

that will be

suppli starting from you tomorrows starting from april first of twenty twenty two

if such payments are not made

we will consider it

as

failing to perform

the contract

by the buyer

with all the consequences

followed

by these

no one is selling anything for three so we are not going to

be involved in charity as well so the current contrest

will be a stop

today i signed a decree

that

tablishes rules

on selling russian natural gas with the so called unfriendly states

we

suggest

to the

contractors from such countriy ites a transparent

and

if you don't understand

seized im to buy russian natational gas they have to

open a brubal account in russian banks

these accounts will be used to pay for the gas

that will be

suppli starting from you tomorrows starting from april first of twenty twenty two

if such payments are not made

we will consider it

as

failing to perform

the contract

by the buyer

with all the consequences

followed

by these

no one is selling anything for three so we are not going to

be involved in charity as well so the current contriy

will be stopp

today i signed a decree

that

establishes rules

on selling russian natural gas with the so called unfriendly states

we

suggest

to the

contractors from such countryes a transparenty

and

if youn understand

seized him to buy russian natural gas they have to

open a brubal account in russian banks

these accounts will be used to pay for the gas

that will be

suppli starting from tomorrows starting from april first of twenty twenty two

if such payments are not made

we will consider it

as

failing to perform

the contract

by the buyer

with all the consequences

followed

by these

no one is selling anything for three so we are not going to

be involved in charity as well so the current contrest

will be stop

today i signed a decree

that

establishes rules

on selling russian natational gas with the so colled unfriendly states

we

suggest

to the

contractors from such countriyes a transparent

and

if you don't understand

seized him to buy russian natural gas they have to

open a brubal account in russian banks

these accounts will be used to pay for the gas

that will be

suppli starting from tomorrows starting from april first of twenty twenty two

if such payments are not made

we will consider it

as

failing to perform

the contract

by the buyer

with all the consequences

followed

by these

no one is selling anything for three so we are not going to

be involved in charity as well so the current contrey

will be stop

today i signed a decree

that

establishes rules

on selling russian natural gas with the so colled unfriendly states

we

sgest

to the

contractors from such countriyes a transparent

and

if you do understand

seized him to buy russian natural gas they have to

open a brubal account in russian banks

these accounts will sy for the gas has place change the suppli starting from tomorrow's

why

starting from april first of twenty twenty two

i such payments are not me oh my god it's been on luke

because it's been looping

eight

i didn't know

i didn't know

i literally was tweeting

i literally was tweeting

i literally didn't know

ay

i

now

a

look at this

the e u viverbally refused to pay gas and rubles

as putin demanded

but in fact began to quietly buy up rubles

which resulted in the strengthening of the russian currency by twenty one percent

in just a few days

the eu is circumventing the sanctions that it itself imposes

the fact began to quietly buy approvals which resulted in the strengthening of the russian currency by twenty one percent

in just a few days

eu is circumventing the sanctions that it itself imposed

based superstructure shut

the fock up

literally shut the fuck up

i'm checking fact checking one by one

so this is breaking news apparently i have to cover right now

i allready

fucking had that article lined up

just stop

holy shit just stopped

goy

damn

i'm coming to you from the center of athens greece i'm right in front of the national gallery

and i thought i would uh knock out one more video it's night time

and i want to get this video up

by today

and i got most of the other videos up that we had for today but this one's an important one so i

forward to this putin does not glove gasper was decreed that's what his video is called

but check this out

the ruble becomes the best performing currency in march

and sores

eighty three to the dollar

now it's like eighty one

so the ruble became the best performing currency in march

best performing currency in march

i can't believe liberals are spinning this as an el

still they're still spinning this

and this is business standard are you going to really just try and say that this isn't happening

that the rouble didn't recover

i so you're literally coping and you're saying it didn't recover

because it's still worth less than the

how many currencies are actually worth more than the dollar

very few

very few

because the dollar is the world's reserve currency

and also the us is one of the most powerful economies in the world

that's not the bar the bar isn't being worth equal to the fucking dollar

the bar is whether western efforts to stranglehold the russian economy

and collapse the ruble worked and they didn't

why why do i have to argue about this ship why does there have to be this fucking

rift in the space time continuum where i have to get angry and start yelling at people over something that people pretty smoothly

should be able to articulate

why do i have to just start yelling at people and getting violent in shit

why do i have to have this explosive anger

where does this come from why do i look like the asshole

why don't i look like the yelling angry asshole

why why do i have to be a yelling guy

who has to come off as this aggressive ashole

just to get the fucking like basic truth but you should just know this

you sh just know this shit

i have to fuck in like yell and shit

and be an asshole

bas

pog

isn't that something people who are wrong are supposed to have to do why do i have to do that

i'm fuckin right

jesus fugk in christ

the rubles being artificially propped up

ok so it's not about it being let worth let this in the dollar anymore

only fock keeps shifting the goal post

what if the eu finds another source for gas

ok i'll by what source

where's you going to find another source for gas go ahead how is it going to replace

and also how are they going to

i think you need to be educated on a little something called marx's falling rate of profit

they need even cheaper gas

then what a're you getting from russia

in order to maintain

they're industrial profits

that they have not

if they start paying more for gas guess what's going to happen

according to the law of the fallowing weright of profit

it's going to lead to an economic collapse

the falling rate of profit is a law according to which capitalists need to continually seek

cheaper and cheaper

marginal costs

for the production of goods and commodities

or

they're driven into extinction

and the whole focking thing collapses

why do you think europe was making that deal with russia nord stream two because germany loves russia no

nord stream two was going to significantly

cheapen the price

of russian gas

thereby removing one of the biggest burdens

on german industry right now

and if you think you're going to replace that with something else you're a dumb ass

can i explain to you guys

germany needed nord stream two

they needed it you know when sponge bob was starving

for water and he goes i need that was falcking germany they need

nord stream two

or their fucking economy will collapse

it's that much as

at stake

i figrets

um let me seck

y

up here and get this visual q

oh my god

yeah

hello

it's possible

oh wait what happened i got dragged in

oh hey has you dragged me in

yeah you're in the show quue

well how's it going but how's life

so

you found a destiny and all thisse people

oh

well i asked you how you're doing number one i'm curious you know and number two fanadusty i mean i've watched him for a while

so what the roud are you part of on which

um i'd like to think i'm my own man

nobody is so what's crowd

well which crowd are you a part of

m

i'm literally a

my own star you know i'm not part of anyone's crowd

well same here i'm not part of anyone not true you know it's not true

you either will can you

destiny i'm with yous hassan i'm with you are vosh

i me you're doesnt me right

use a beter what do you mean by thea

by destiny guy yeah it is a better question what do you think of hassan

what do i think of assan i think that hassan has really really bad political take generalsny

so

o sure i guess not being not hassan is a destiny guy i guess yeah

so i'm all right

i learned something

you ever like piling on me on twitter

um i

think one time yeah like when they when they like

quote we have your spreadsheet around like you participate in that right

no i don't i don't think i've ever participated in like a pilon of you

i don't re have ight interet at all if you like tweets that are like against me and shit

no i can confidently say i haven't i pretty much never like tweets

it's very rare

but you probably sympathize more with the people who are

against me outswitter

right

well i'm not am i'm not an m l so yeah we probably don't agree very much

short on coll so even though you're not an ml

would you say you're like an objective minded person

yeah i try to be

ok

so pull up my stream right now

again

all right i'm pulling it up

i take a look at this tweek

ok

yeah

so

what am i saying

ok to lib schitz remember when you kept mocking inflation of the russian ruble

one u s d equals eighty three and a half russian ruble

a

well it sounds like you're

making fun of liberals who

we're saying that the russian ruble will continue to be devalued

yeah

that's yeah how much thought did that take you to produce

well not very much i don't think

so do you see the quote tweets here

ah fifty

well just fifty three of them it also seventy replies to the tweet

so do you want to know what

the people on twitter

who um

say i'm a dumb master say

say what they shod

oh is so stupid

he literally doesn't even know that this means the dollarsre worth more than the rouble

m

yeah i guess they're just

it it sounds like a

it's like the worst possible interpretation i guess

why are they taking the worst possible interpretation

well they probably don't like you very much

if i had a guess

so are you saying like they would be wrong for interpreting it that way

i mean

well i can see how you could interpret it that way but like i said like that's the

that's the least charitable way you could interpret this sweet i think

like what would lead someone to do that

to interpret something uncharitably i mean if they don't well if they don't like the person that's what i'm saying it sounds like that you just got a lot of people that don't like you well let's say someone was like a little bit informed and knew that the ruble was at like one hundred forty

which skyrocketed like

relative to the u s i mean

skyrocketed to like one hundred forty

right

us doll relative the us dollar

so it's like

wouldn't they know that

i'm saying it recovered

if they had that

that's a good question i don't i honestly don't know because it seems like you're referencing inflation which isn't

like that's not the same thing as the as the value of the

like the exchange rate of the currency

m

so i really don't know the exchange rate of a currency is a pretty good indication of inflation isn't it

um no not really i mean it can be like obviously one one will oftentimes follow the other but it it can be the case that you have like a relatively devalued currency but also low inflation so like you can look at the remembi as an example where

their currency isn't as valuable as like the u s dollar for instance but right now the u s has a relatively high amount of inflation compared to china wait

that

that's not what devaluation means if

the renmies started to significantly trade

um

more ren bees per dollar than it does now wouldn't that indicate inflation

no not always because you got to keep in mind it's a separate market right so on the exchange market you've got

basically supply and demand of a currency

on and like how much well just that suppint am inu a currency but then the inflation rate is the domestic price level

and so we can imagine many scenarios where the domestic price level might be rising

but the exchange rate doesn't necessarily you know you we fre in china has the dual circulation system for foreign exchange and domestic so let's just say for the russian economy

where there's a lot of domestic goods that are from the world market and don't come

from russia domestically

wouldn't a drastic increase in the ruble

indicate inflation

am

that's a god that's a good question i

i'm not sure well

i know that in w it a least indicate an inflation of the price of goods

that are circulated on the world market and not circulated within russia

ah

yeah i would say so i mean like for instance one of the reasons right now that

the russian like people are saying that one of the reasons the russian currency is recovering is because natural gas prices so and also when i say inflation of the russian ruble doesn't it mean that if a currency is inflated

it's rising in value relative to another currency

sorry it's rising in quantity relative to another currency in terms of

how much is it's exchanged for

now like i've never i've never heard some if someone's referring to the value of a currency on the world stage i've never heard someone say like a currency is inflated or deflated what typically they'll say is a currency is appreciated or depreciated yeah

and

but inflation doesn't because inflate because inflation technically is the increase of prices

right and so

you know

there's not really like a price you've never heard be a saying inflating currency

well you can say that like

mm

the currency is becoming less valuable because of inflation right but if we're talking about the value of economist talk about

currencies being inflated all the time

maybe they do maybe you can give me some examples i can just tell you the way that i was taught and the way that i typically see it discussed in the news and stuff like that is that if the value like if the u s like for instance what we would say here is that this is vudvest the pdia dot com

right would you consider that reliable

uh yeah i would say so

right so this is saying

inflation is the decline of the purgency power and then it says

inflation is the rate at which the value of a currency is falling

infl rate at which the value of a currency is falling

and i get that that value is relative

to good

goods and services

right

but that can as refer

it can also refer to other currencies

especially in foreign exchange markets when

just like goods and services other currencies are going to be commodities

yeah i get what you're saying i all i'm saying is that it seems like based on this article that that we both have pulled up right so inflation is typically

you might say relative to the price of goods and services because inflation is just the increase in prices i'm not saying what you're saying is wrong right you could you could say like the currencyes inflated or deflated based on

you know thee on the exchange market or whatever it is all the all that i'm saying is that

like

i think that the

the best case scenario for this tweet

is that people are are

in the least possible way

charitably interpreting your tweet

and obviously in the words there just what do you think is liarus

because i think a lot of people are actually convinced that this events is

some level of stupidity on my part i mean they're saying oh my god haz is so stupid and they're not even elaborating o y we yeah ok yeah to be fair ok so there's a spectrum here so like on one end you've got least charitable possible interpretation on the other and you've got people who are like

i l o l i'm just going to say haws is stupid because i don't like him

and then on the other end yeah you're right you' probably you've probably got some portion of people that literally are just like

hasa so dumb

he thinks that this is what this means and

you know that's that's their thought so i mean would you consider those people to be smart

m

what about knowledge of what would you consider them to be knowledgeable about

how currency exchange works and

the current events specifically as it pertains

the plummeting value of the russian rule

i think i think you could

i think you could know about that and make the interpretation that we just described i think that that's

possible it's just that i think what's more likely probably is that

they

it's not really about their knowledge and it's more about just how much they don't like you so if someone really really doesn't like you

they're just going to be like oh has thinks this because he's a dumb dumb

and so i'm so thisy this is the latest one this is actually forty seconds ago he says this is deeply embarrassing reminder

that tank coids are the most economically illiterate people on the planet

yeah yeah well that's probably an example of like he just really really doesn't like you and so he's like l l ha hawss dumb

simon

so like

not

not there a

like there lack a

hot of it they like you so little that like that informs their interpretation of

of their statement

you know

so i mean like this guy what's his name fucko bucko like he he

for all i know like this could be a ph d in economics or something but he just might not like you very much so he's just assuming that you're

saying something a lot dumber than what you think he does think it's deeply embarrassing

yeah that's whaty i'm that's why i'm saying i think i i think that this is just he just doesn't like you very much so he's just like oh

this makes plk pretty stupid so i'm going to interpret it that way

you know

um

so do you think there's other cases where this like stuff happens where it's like

what about what about like an uninformed person what if there is an uninformed person and they look at this

and they see all these people saying that i made an embarrassingly stupid mistake like

don't you think they would think oh there must be some truth to that

yeah that's well yeah i think if someone like for instance if someone ratios you on this tweet saying

like l l has doesn't know what he's talking about

he thinks that the russian rubel's worth more than the dollar i could see a pile on effect

happening

for sure

do you think

that there's anything comical about that like

masses of people admitting that they're wrong

and stupid

well i mean

well not really i mean it's always you know it's never the mob

the mob mentality

especially when related to misinformation is never

you know is never a good thing

but are you know are we're talking now

right youre tarm me that's not your interpretation so

right but aren't like

am

aren't i supposed to be the guy who's like wrong and they're the ones who are right

yeah i get what you're saying i can see how

from your perspective it's like man these people are

like

they're really dumb because they think like they think that i think this but i actually don't obviously we're talking to you now and so

you know it doesn't seem like

and yeah thak got your word that's not what you meant so

right but it's like

it's kind of

surreal that like

you can have like a tanky guy just like be right and all of them be wrong

like in a really black and white right way like

is that not supposed to be possible

well we're not because really we're they're not wrong about like

because this isn't really an economic discussion right so they're not wrong about

the economics of the matter they're wrong about

what you meant by this tweet

right so you could say that they're

because i mean typically what people make fun of tankyes wll they sa ot that i've hed something really stupid so clearly like

that's what i'm that's what i'm saying right so like if their if their interpretation of this is you think the russian ruble is more valuable than the dollar

we can say that their interpretation is stupid

but

actually their interpretation is sort of

implying at least some knowledge because they recognize that's not what this means

right so they understand at least a little bit about

currency exchanges and like the value of the dollar

right but wouldn't they also have to know that

if the ruble is trading for eighty

per one dollar and it was trading at

one hundred forty per dollar a few weeks ago that what that means is that it's actually recovered and that

that's a pretty like direct

yeah i get what you're saying but they're but they're not

but they're not making a comment on the recovery of the ruble what what it seems like from what you've shown me what they're saying is

like not that the russian ruble has not recovered what they're saying is

has thinks that what this chart is saying

is that

eighty three russian rubles

uh or like it takes eighty three dollars to get a russian ruble basically but it's actually the reverse right so

their interpretation is

you think people overestimate their level of intelligence relative to me then

at the very least like

you think they're kind of projecting an image of someone who's

really dumb in their mind to make themselves feel smarter than they actually are

i don't know what's going on in their mind i mean i think that an interpretation like that is definitely bore out of like a really really low bar

for

for like how smart they think you are obviously

i mean i like to be fair we all have people that's like

we would give no

sort of credit or benefit of the doubt with regard to their

in you know takes on certain issues right and for you obviously that's

some people feel thatu of you a lot of people feel thatut of me

so i don't know why they would do that but i mean you know what i'm struggling to understand is that

how could literally anyone

who is slightly familiar with the recovery of the rouble which is making headlines

on the mainstream press already

how could they interpret this tweet in this way

authentically

if they were like minimally familiar with that

well because they really really don't like you and they probably saw someone else

do that

as well right so there's kind of a pyle on effect right so on one hand you're seeing

well you know on one hand you're saying

people misinterpret your tweet but on the other hand in terms of authentic and like authentic misinterpretation you could say

m

there just

piling on basically

from whoever originally made that interpretation

so where could i possibly suggest

in the language of this tweet

that what i'm trying to say is that the ruble' is worth more than the dollar

when i said remember when you kept mocking inflation of the russian rule

which means that the russian rule somehow inflated

right

and then i also said why so silent now

than now means now

relative to

before so i was implying that there was a time in which you were mocking

inflation of the rule

but now you were silent

so doesn't that pretty es leave no room for interpretation

that what i wll is that the ruble is worth more

i think that the two things you could have done to

avoid this would be to say that instead of

mocking inflation you could say mocking the devaluation

of the rouble

and then instead of this in instead of the screenshot it looks like you screenshot a just the google

like you probably googled like what is a dollar equal in rubles and it gives you like that

that paste

but

you could have just

screenshoted like the one month or two month graph

of the exchange rate

and i think those two things would have left this tweet pretty much

like unable to be

you know

interpreted in such a waly people judge

the value of a currency

by how much rubles per dollar

nobody judges it by for example the reverse wre like

a ruble is point zero like nobody says one ruble is

sorry nobody says like

mm

one rouble is worth one cent

you know this is usually how people represent

these currency relationships

well it depends on your perspective right so obviously if you're representing this to an american audience right that would make a lot of sense

but if you're russian you would say

you know one of our rubles is worth a penny or whatever it is like a dollar or one penny u s d

and

so i get what you're saying i mean you know i don't

i don't disagree with you that this is like a really bad faith interpretation of

this tweet i mean i don't i don't really see the room

presently i don't really see the room

reasonably for that interpretation all that i'm saying is that

the people that interpreted it that way

m dot you think it's like probably

aren't there like a lot of them

big influencers on twitter that these people like circulate around like for example if my community was like

so wrong about something directly i'd be like i would think there's a problem i'd be like wait guys like

hold on likeight

you know it's like it i would be embarrassed like don't don't you think it's weird that like

literally not a single one of these people step in and say hold on wait a second like

pretty clear that he means

it recovered

um well i don't i don't really know i don't know what big creators are involved like i don't know if you've been quote tweeted by

big creators with this tweet i mean i haven't followed

this

like whatever is happening right now um

but i would say that in the in the scenario where a big creator had that same interpretation and then you came out and said

well that's not actually what i'm saying here like i feel like reasonably

this is like this is what i'm saying

and they still said no n no you're a dumb fuck i think at that point you could say well they're probably being bad faith to some extent because of because if you're if you're sitting there right now and you're saying

no no my interpretation was that just the russian currency is appreciating in value

well then

i have no reason to not

to not believe you

you know what i mean

but if i choose not to believe you despite your words

and i don't have any like really solid reason to not still not believe you

well yeah you'd probably say that that person's being bad faith

or that they have some you know

pre disposition against you or something like that

yeah so

a

well okd you find anything boad as ok as someone me who's known for like being a clown

he was always being wrong or whatever apparently

don't you kind of think it's weird when the villain

is

like this is a case of me being unjustly maligned

m

yeah i would

isn't it kind ofally it is a little weird isn't it

it's not it depends on you mean by weird i mean i would say that like i said i don't i don't really see a lot of room for that

interpretation to be reasonable

in this tweet

and so i don't i mean

it doesn't seem right

that so har piling n't it kind of open a worm of doubt though like

if people are willing to be this bad faith

for things like this i mean like have they been bad faith about other things

possibly

well yeah it's always possible i mean i think that i think that the issue here is that

obviously you're more

pro russian in regards to the

you know this sort of internationally known conflict the ukraine russia war

um

and so

basically people are

they're going to look at any tweet that you make on the topic and they're going to try and extract like

you know

the like the dumbest thing possible because

they did they disagree with your takes basically

yeah

i mean this is a case where like i don't

i don't agree with most of your takes on russia obviously but

if you're just making a descriptive claim likeh yeah the russian currency is recovering

i mean that's true

right it's not really much to disagree with

yeah

um yeah

well okay but um

do you think that there is

ok so this person said one ruble is worth one cent you think it's like

particularly smart to point that out

just like le judge it from like a common sense perspective do you think that's like smart

like a smll well it response

if this person thinks that you are misinterpreting

the graph then yes right but it obviously they have a fault they have a

faulty

interpretation of your tweet

well i mean like the fact that they would interpret it that way clearly

indicates some measure of

but yea it indicates that the you know

they have

you know probably a predisposition against you like i said they don't like you very much

right

yeah but don't you think don't you think they kind of got a little like

excited about

thinking they got a gotcha on me but

bk

doesn't this kind of make them look bad they got a little excited about

thinking that well yeahn me on something but

they underestimated

by a law i mean yeah like

you can see like i can see one sweet from the guy polyy go out the bottom where he says that

you know he actually predicted that these capital controls and stuff like that would

bolster the value of the currency right so like

that

that seems like polyglott is accurately interpreting your tweet as appreciating the currency

and he's offering

his liberal perspective on the issue like that to me that would be

the best

faith

like response to this tweet

ian obviously to be fare haws you tweet like you do sometimes tweet inflammatory things right

ah yeah

in bt

you know so obviously people are going to get pissed off about that kind of stuff this is just

to me this is not one of your inflammatory tweets well i mean it is because you're calling out liberals and you're saying like you're you know you guys yeah heads and wrong but it's like

people could you you could critique me and you could be like

this is just temporary or you could just say all this kind of stuff but like

why would someone point out that a ruble is worth less than the dollar

yeah because well i iu said because they're interpreting you in the way that you know we've discussed right they just don't like you very much right

and

yeah that's pretty much it

nw

all right well

i guess that's all

that's all but you didn't you didn't want i thought you know i thought you wanted to talk

the issues

the economics

but

a what is all right i don't know what issues

i can talk about issues oh no

i was just told you wanted to talk about like a

well i guess to be fair about the currency and like what's happening in russia economically speaking but

mll right yeah i can talk about that too

what do you think's going on you think the russian economies you know what's your what's your evaluation of things

well since the it apparently seems like the europeans are being forced

to buy russian gas and rubles

m

i think

that the mainstay of the russian economy is going to be fine

as russia

starts to work out ways to redirect

it's market

gas to china and india

and other countries outside of europe

i believe that

the

forcing them to buy it in rubles keeps i think putin has already delayed that once

because he doesn't there's there was some there was an issue where dmitri pescov

because there's actually division in the russian government a lot of people don't know this between more liberal pro western factions

so pascov said that they will give

people more time to transition

but then putin just recently doubled down basically kind of contradicting pascof saying no

you're going to have to use i mean he's giving them the option to use the

this is as olaf schultz presented to the press

they're going to have to use the russian state owned banks or they can use the russian sattle banks ally the would ease the

ability to transition to

trend to exchange their euros for rubles in which they case they will buy a

nut and gas

yah putin just gave like today the april first deadline tomorrow

oh that's what i heard was that it got extended

a day

yesterday but then i got is extended like another day

today i guess so i guess we'll see what happens tomorrow

m

big april fools prank maybe or maybe it'll actually go down i'm not really sure i mean i think that

you know would you sa i mean you would say that the russian economy is

like

like this war has not been good for the russian economy i imagine you'd agree with

no it hasn't

have you seen out now

butm i think that the russian economy

has been

very much

dependent on the west

um

not necessarily out of necessity

as much as

a result of the geopolitical changes after the fall of the soviet union which

opened up russia to

first and foremost foreign for

capital

a little bit

m

aswlls created a kind of oligarchic class which was heavily

com

dependent on what financial institutions but

bars rush the ability for russia too

redirect

it's

sale of resources and gas i think

the chinese market

in addition to the indian market and other markets could probably absorb

the bulk of it

you mean like russia could transition into more more like facing those markets in order to

you know alleviate the problems with the sanctions

yeah

well it the sanctions are also

heavily dependent on the currency politics of the whole thing

i

but new

deals are already being made with the brics countries

as well as iran countries like iran

you pretty much

bypass the need to exchange

in dollars right i mean that's the explicit goal of the russian government in collaboration with the chinese now

to eliminate the us dollars the premier reserve currency

yeah it seems like there's been some attempts by the chinese government like i think for instance i want to say china bought

oil from pakistan and they used

you wan they didn't use the

yeah right saye what yououghtu be

yeah ok they use the japanese

the japanese yen

well they're also buying they're buying it in you wan

they're selling it to you wan the saudis

yeah you're talking that's the japanese currency right yeah my wrong

yeah

i mean i don't

well i mean i don't know if

well i mean

you know if you transition away from using the dollar but you see the

well

you w i mean you're not exactly

wait you're talking about the mimbi

darn b

you on

you want

i'm pretty sure it's called remimbi am i wrong

remember

um

it's the i think there is the are the words are interchangeable

oh okay i see what you're saring for

okay i see um

yeah it's interesting i don't know how that will go

i mean obviously

china doesn't want to be you know totally totally vulnerable to the same sanctions that russia is right now right obviously china is trying to learn as much as russia is right now and

yeah but by there's some

the issue with those sanctions that comes to a point where it's like

you can't really just sanction the world you know at a certain point you're the one who's getting cut off

not the reverse right

well yeah i mean that's why people are thinking that putin might not actually follow through with his gas threat because obviously in the scenario where

like where in this scenario where germany's is

committed to greatly reducing their imports of russian gas and poland is already committed to not

taking in any russian gas and the u k and canada and the united states have done the same

like in that kind of scenario obviously you could be shooting yourself in the foot right because the same thing that's propping up the value of your currency

good

be the negotiating chip that you're using and if they call your bluff well

i mean now you're back in the same problem you were a month ago right so it's what i think i

russia's economy

i think it is prepared

for short term

that the atmosphere in russia is kind of i would like to call it not without exaggerting a kind of revolutionary atmosphere where

they see this is a new era

and if some old industries

and supply chains and whatever companies collapse

i

i think that this is a storm that russia can weather right in the short term

and

putting that into a context of becoming

more dependent on china and more interconnected with india

bypassing all the sanctions i think the russian economy in the long term

doesn't really need the west i think the west needs russia more than the reverse because

what the what russia' is getting from the west

is money

right and it's using that money to buy things on the international market

right

and obviously western currency

um

purchases for

you know goods on the international markets pretty well right

but we can see that

russia getting over that all russia would have to do is basically like

you know in collaboration with china india establish a new monetary order for the world right

so that's kind of like an issue of symbols and stuff right whereas

the west seems like a very more direct

substantive issue of

like where are we going to get our resources and goods from

right our fertilizer oil

right i mean

well ya i mean i think

well oil is a different question here i mean in terms of gas obviously yeah geas

yeah obviously qatar is a big one obviously biden's also talking about

opening up relationships again with venezuela they have a pretty good amount obviously they're more of an oil country but you know they have a good amount of gas the u s is kind of in a special place where

the u s probably has enough gas to supply its own market that's one of the reasons why the u s was a little bit quicker to ban imports of russian gas in the first place whereas germany is in like a much a much worse spot so

i mean it's it's a

the intermedium z project

yeah but the issue is that

so when you talk about qatar though the reason the germans were doing ortream too

was actually because

the current price of gas

or german industry was starting to have an effect on its level of competitiveness and it was starting to be an immense burden

on german industry and local manufacturing and stuff right

so

they desperately needed a reduction

in the price of gas to alleviate that and be able to become competitive again right it's like they're

basically having this kind of

long term trend of

falling profits

well the ned yeah l as much as possible

right

well yeah germany is an exporting economy and so obviously when one of your key inputs is getting more expensive it causes all of your exports become more expensive and less you know price competitives the rest of the world i an

yeah i get that i mean i it's not it's not that

it's not that you're wrong

so qatar is going to

obviously that would significantly increase

the price of f

yes compared to the

not only compared to what nordstream two is going to offer the germans but compared to what russia was already offering

which i think is going to have a detrimental effect

on the german economy

yeah i would say that germany would

would be in quite a sorry state if they just stopped importing russian gas but that to be fair though that's not what their policy is right what they've committed to is that

in the medium term

and you know we're going to engage in active policies to both build up our military and also

uh build up our energy resilience right so part of that is investing in refineries part of that is investing in renewable energy

um in like suring up domestic production and gas where it exists and then ensuring

a sharing up the supply chains outside of russia right so i think that

you know

on one hand you're right that if

oil imports from russia went away tomorrow you'd probably be looking at a recession across europe

you know

basically within the week

um

but that would also hurt russia quite a lot as well and nobody would be better for it

now as far as who could outlast who that's probably the better question

well my opinion would be

yeah gone yeah i think it's clear that russia is in a state of kind of

i would say again i would call it a revolutionary transformation where

you know it's

relationship to the west is being completely upended it's economic system even is showing signs of change

the class

situation is like oligarchs are now in fear of being called fifth columns and

there's all sorts of these kind of changes in the russian economy

which they're already seem to be kind of prepared for right

whereas

so

the changes that anticipate

that europe has to anticipate with an economic crisis i don't think

the political establishments of europe are prepared for so i think ultimately

russia has more of a bargaining chip here because

you know if if europe decides to shoot itself in the foot

and

you know

to cut itself off from any russian gas

their economies will plummet and they'll be screwed whereas if

russia experiences a lot of damage

it always has china to be there to kind of

for economic aid and to help rescue it and stuff

i mean that's exactly someone in my chat is pointing out like

sanctions are not new

for russians economic hardship is not new i mean even poverty is not really new

russians and the russian countryside is very poor already you know

so i don't shure but that well that but that doesn't mean that

because they would be there would be more poor if if russia

stop

is selling gas to europe right i mean the reason that russia sells gas to europe right now

and not to china already

even though theyd probably prefer it is because europe is an entire market with demand that probably wouldn't be filled without it

right and so at the same time you're right like

you know gas production in russia wouldn't be curtailed to just whatever it is minus what they sent to europe

that gas will get bought elsewhere

but it would probably get sold at a discount

right and so that's a lot less wealth entering the country

which you know isn't really particularly great for russia i mean i think that

the issue

i think the issue with a lot of countries in the middle east and the

in you know russia as well relying on a lot of their

soft and hard power based on fossil fuels

is that we're going to see

i really

transforming landscape of fossil fuels in the next ten to fifteen years

oil especially gas probably less so

but to be fair gas is probably a bigger bet on how we can develop things like hydrogen power because

as soon as like

as soon as like as soon as you're able to cheaply electrolyze

a water

well then gas basically becomes irrelevant the next day because nobody would like nobody would rather deal with russia than build a cheap electroalzer in order to you know

get hydrogen

and and so

that's a pretty big bet right now europe just came out the e u in two thousand and twenty came out with a

a an e u wide hydrogen strategy because they recognize the value of the technology they're you know investing millions and billions of dollars into it

the us is doing the same

um

it's not that it'll happen tomorrow it's just that i'm a little skeptical in general of

like how relevant

russia can continue to be with regard to their gas exports

by twenty thirty five is let's say like now that gas will be a part of our mix but i can sey i can certainly see renewables and hydrogen taking over enough of the market that we don't have to care as much about

what russia does or thinks

well i don't know

i'm kind of skeptical if hydrogen power can even replace

yes as far as europe is concerned i'm also really skeptical of this kind of

transition to renewables but even

notwithstanding that i mean russia's clearly

showing a willingness to want to reindustrialize its country

with the help of china and with the help of

sorry with the aid of

a new monetary order

around the world ride

and

you know

so in the same way russia won't necessarily only be

a country that's exporting

um

gas and oil

or even resources to survive

a with that will also come

an effort to reindustrialize russia so that russia can

no

make things again

i

what

technically didn't really ever make a lot of things but it did like make

it was at one point the world's biggest

producer of steel that was under the soviet union and then

shifted to gas but

still i mean it had an industry

industrial a big industrial sector

under the soviet times which had lost

and i don't see why a new partnership with china can't reinvigorate that

well i think the issue there is that

if russia wanted to establish a new manufacturing base they would need to rely

probably on partnerships outside of china because china's

like the goal of china is to become the manufacturing hub of the world they've already done that to be fair right i don't know i don't know i don't think that's their goal anymore because i

china is transitioning now into a middle class society

which is consumer oriented

and

while they've recognized the issue of how

you know america's

trap

of losing its manufacturing base was

bad for the american economy in the long term

i think china is looking to develop

other countries industries

um

to create new

it's all it's all kind of complicated

related to the supply chains right

bike

well no i get i get were rans i mean like industries are becoming more abstract in terms of how much supply chains they rely on

like for example wiwais a brand of smartphones right

and

it's clearly like you know in a very simple way it's competitive with apple or whatever right

this was an american brass

and

who is making whilewais chips who is making whaws parts i mean i don't know if china's completely

m

ate all that

within the its domestic industry maybe it has i don't know

i'm just saying like there's room for

countries to not necessarily only seek to tap into the natural resources of other countries

sometimes another country's manufacturing base can also be a kind of natural resources

that goes into the finished products which are the like heavy

itters savier economy

well i mean china

is not

so china is not particularly

rich in a lot of

natural resources that are like mainstays right so for instance like right now china is going through a trade war with australia

because china has to import a lot of its iron that it uses for its steel production from australia

right and australia has a lot of bargaining it's like similar to like the russia e u situation where like right now australia has a lot of bargaining power with china because they import a lot of iron from australia

and irons like triple the price that it used to be

right and so china's having a pretty hard time even though australia is like

i don't even like one twentieth the population or something like that right so

and and so

i

i

so chinah china a lot of their manufacturing base isn't necessarily based on resource extraction it's based on like those more intermediate goods so for instance like importing iron to make steel really effectively or

um like they have a lot of rare earth elements but what people don't realize is that a lot of their advantage in real earth elements isn't actually the amount that they have they've got a lot of that uh wealth to be fair but

there's a lot of reserves for are earth elements in like the united states and australia as well but why don't they mine it well it's because china has like a ninety eight percent market share for refining

earth elements

and so

it seems like what china's done really effectively isn't necessarily build its wealth based on resource extraction obviously there's part of that just like there's part that in every economy

it's more so based on the

importing those things or taking those things and basically being able to refine them

or get them ready to be put into like a final good

yeah and so but obviously like with the pll road the ability to outsource those also comes the ability to kind of

cheap in the price right

yeah well's what i'm saying so like the the genius of the belt and road initiative

is that

like

and and i don't really like the belt and road initiative for

for some reasons but

the genius of it from like a strategy standpoint from xi jing ping's perspective is that

they're engaging in a really long term international investment scheme building relationships because ultimately what their goal their long term goal is to

develop nations enough

so that they can be wealthy enough to buy stuff from china

because right now all the people buying stuff from china are all the developed countries which tend to be like

liberal western democracies

yeah and so that's where you know that's like basically the long term goal of the belt and road initiative and it's already having some effects like for instance you see african countries

being a little bit more likely to vote with china and the uun

nw even though the us provides more aid like

net aid to

africa than china does all do e canomic is also an economic reason which has to do with the fact that

china's needs expanding markets

to sell its goods in order to maintain

profitability

say that again

china needs the expanding markets also to sell its goods to maintain profitability

you know one of the ways you can

well yeah yeah yeah course so it needs to continue to grow and remain profitable and also supports

the rising chinese middle class so

whatll i'm trying to say is that the

it seems to me that russa

jan

redevelop its industry

without necessarily a

coming into conflict with china

because it's yeah it's they can do that they can but it's sounded like what you were saying was that china would like

but like

directly enable that

happening like they would be part of helping them do that and i'm just not well not sure if through

investment right chinese investment in infrastructure in russia is already happening

the infrastructure with which obviously to transport

raw materials but also

infrastructure in which to refine materials as well as something chinese have done so

i think china's overall interested in developing

other countries rit

and i was i mean

with that for their own numboes like domestic industry right

china may not be the one setting up the industry but it's going to

set up the necessary infrastructure and investments

i to do that

yeah i get that i mean i think that what's important to point out is that china is not they're not doing this out of like the goodness of their heart right it's not like an altruistic thing

and also there are

im

there's like

some

some problems in like toxicity related to the loans uh and like infrastructure agreements that china's implemented

so it's not all good things right it's just that they're engaging in a strategy to try and bolster their export markets which includes

trying to develop countries enough in my age

why i don't think they're doing it out the goodness of their heart but i also think

china isn't really

giving these loans that can't be paid back all the loans are meant to be able to be

paid back

right i mean i don't

i don't really know of dead traps

well one of the well there are examples of debt traps within with regard to the belt and road initiative but the one of the problems with it evaluating

so people bring up the s lokan example as one where i think that's because you

as the sri lankan government

that was already indebted to the imf

right

so it wasn't it all right so

well it depends on i guess at that point depends on what you mean by det t right because we can we can have a contextual analysis when people say like

the i m f debt traps this country or the belton road initiative does this yeah thing right

i i agree with part of that contextual analysis but it seems like a lot of the

you know a lot of charitability gets

washed away when we talk about the i m f but we engage in more contextual analysis talking about china

right but the problem is that china's has a big record of forgiving

yes

right which really wouldn't be in the interest of a country that wants to create dead traps

well what do you mean by forgiving debts right because on one hand you could say that it's forgive all loans that

countries clearly can't pay back to china

in africa i don' i know

yeah

yeah

no i gue i understand what you're what you're saying when you when you mean forgive but like there's

so there's there's ways we can forgive debt that we would probably consider more or less toxic or imperialist right so we coln forgive the debt on one hand say

hey we forgive the debt

like

fucking don't worry about it we'll just stop building and just keep whatever we built so far right like that might be the least toxic way to do it but then the other top way would be like

yeah we're going to forgive the debt and then we're going to take over all the infrastructure and that ports ours now and that's not what happened in sri lanka i mean in sri lanka chatters fting it already

know the port has already been leased to china

and

the minus the operational costs the profits still go to sri lanka and the problem with that is that

the three lankens couldn't

know they couldn't pave

or

loan to china

and

they re negotiated the terms you know

no but all

well yeah all i'm saying is that when you can't pay a loan from the i m f you renegotiated as well right now we might not agree with all the terms of those loans right for instance you know i i'm just trying to put the shoe on the other foot right

yeaf we were talking about a scenario where

the i m f invested a lot like they they you know say it was ethiopia or something like that right and it's like the they were going to best in the port and sri lanka which is why this re lankins

brought the chinese in the first place

i honestly i'm not sure about that i'm just saying like if we take a hypothetical scenario where the i m f is like trying to build a port

and then the people

have to lease it

to the i m f or like to western nations or something like that

we can certainly imagine a lot of tankies and socialists on twitter saying how unfair and exploititive that is now that's a form of economic maalpet the

the the i m f

puts the country in debt and then takes the infrastructure

no i'm saying we

if we imagine a scenario where the i mf

says

hey we're going to develop a port for you

and we're going to give you a loan for it and you have to pay it back

now i get that you're having trouble paying it back but we already agreed that you'd lease it only to our partners right the western nations we can imagine how

the analysis from people on you know the left like socialist left

would be like

oh you know this is economic imperialism they're taking advantage of the sri lankans the should just be a grant not aloe and that's not what happened

with support

well but you what i'm just saying what you just said was that china like one of the terms of the agreement was that you have to lease the port

to china it was already leased to china beforehand

that's what i'm saying

yeah like that was the initial thing

right

so i'm saying like

you're saying that

they agreed to lease it to china

that's part of this get reinonstruction or whatever it is

well the debt was to the imf

it was to

western countries

well sure but at that at that point if we're

because because i'm not like a great

so you can criticize the i m f for a lot of their lending practices right all that i'm saying is that

we can probably certainly criticize china for their lending practices as well right at least if you care about

less than altruistic sort of

you know economic soft power being right ended on lower income nations

right

that all i'm saying but that's not

what i'm trying to say is that the case in sri lanka is not an example of that

well you again

that's what i'm trying to get across that we can engage in a contextual analysis what i'm saying though is that i think that if we engage in like a similar contextual analysis with the i m f

we might yield a little bit more charitable interpretation to some of the projects that the i m f has funded

or like some of that tim and the i m f does put countries into debt traps

knowingly giving them loans that the i m f knows can't ever be paid off

in a way to underdeveloped countries right

and that's just

what's an example of the i mf

giving a loan out and they know that it can't be paid back

like this is like a

this is like a can like i don't mean conspiracy like and i'm not trying to make you sound like a crazy person i'm saying like yh

what's an example of this conspiracy being earthed

um

sure i mean there's

like

a lot

of examples

i'm not saying there's not example to be thelere i'm not saying there's not examples of

countries not being able to pay back i have loans w you're making a very specific claim haiti is

pretty well known example

ok so in haiti

the i m f

lin's haiti money

i guess it's part of some recovery

and they knew haiti wouldn't be able to pay it back

and the goal of this was what

bk

what's the last part of the story well what it does is it

allows the i m f to restructure

your economic policies

in order to

determine

getting more so you get loans you can't pay back which means you need more loans to be even have that like gambling right

and then order to get those new loans the i m f can decide your economic policy of your country

and basically say ok you need to cut back on spending on this on this

you have a free mork and need to open up to you know western investment and westsi now sn them that but like

you know right

asset seizures and all this kind of stuff and that's

that's what it's a yeah it's a tool to privatize

public properties

right so you're so you're saying that

the i m f gets countries into debt traps or like they've done this in the past

for the purpose of

liberalizing their economy essentially yeah like like

yeah for the purpose of not only liberalizing the economy but engaging in the

changes to the country's overall economic policy and even

social policy right

political yeah i get what you're saying yeah

i think that some of the issue with this is that

it seems weird that they would do that sometimes buth not all the time especially when the context would be like very similar right so for instance the like ecuador's had a lot of run ins with the i m f right

um

but as far as i'm aware ecuador has never been forced to privatize their national oil company

now it's not to say ecuador's had like a ph can relationship with the i m f right but it's there's some give and take there i think that i think that the better analysis on the i m f which is

in my opinion probably a better analysis on china as well

is that neither of these organizations seek to debt trap countries right it seems like what their goal is is to lend to countries to do whatever they need to do

in the case of the i m f it's usually fund

sort of basic government services in the case of china it's to build infrastructure projects same thing with the world bank

yeah and well it's they don't similar well just one last sentence similar to like any lending institution right

the worst thing you can do is foreclose on somebody or like try to collect debt when they can't pay it back because that's a real headache right it's like nobody wants to lend someone money and then they not be able to pay it back

i and i think that in the i m s case i think that

that is probably a more

reasonable rationale

or like frame of analysis for

like determining why the i m f does what they do despite the fact that oftentimes it's based on faulty assumptions right so

again you can criticize the i m f it's just that

i think that

if you criticize the ima for those reasons you have to make the same criticisms of china

but the reality is that criticism is probably not really accurate for either situation but

hou on

the wy the problem is that so you mentioned we have to get two examples right so you mention the case of ecuador

i have a chatter here actually using ecuador as an example of the i m f imposing

terms of austerity on ecuador which the i m f own projections showed

would cause recession and lead to a rise of unemployment and poverty right

and it's just like you yeah and then another chatter is pointing out how the i m f

was giving loans to ukraine which ukraine defaulted on

you know

two billion dollars per year payments right

i mean i don't see how that can be applied to china when china never imposes

structural terms on paying back

you know the for right arms right it doesn't do that

and also china china

doesn't have a view of economics that's based in like

you know monetarism or financial kind of f

a kind of abstract financial view

jina's when it talked when it's

dealing with issues of economics it's dealing with real things so

china's view is like ok

how can we actually help this country get off its feet and become a real economy right

it doesn't operate like the i m f just in terms of like collecting receipts and collecting the money back

well that's what i'm saying that they have different they're different organizations the have different goals right it's just that that's often the comparison that gets brought up right so the original the original discussion was

how china debt traps countries like the i m f or like that's like the frame of the discussion and you're pushing back on that and i'm saying that

the analysis is a little bit siwhlere right

however

i think that we're

the analogy kind of breaks down is that

china mostly does like infrastructure investment they don't tend to try and bail countries out like the i m f does right so

if like

like iif

i don't know if sri lanka if you sri lanka's entire government's about to go bankrupt

they probably wouldn't rely on belt and road initiative funds to do that

i mean they probably might not go to the chinese government in general because the chinese government just doesn't really do that

right it's more of the infrastructure do't think that china's developmental

a

paradigm

would

present

countries from having to be build out in the first place

um

well

no it depends right so it depends on really what the it depends on two things right so it's what infrastructure they're investing in and how the wealth related to that infrastructure is internalized in the nation so

a lot of the criticisms of the i m f that are very legitimate

are the ideas that

you are forcing developing countries to implement

or at the very least you're recommending that they implement

very very liberal market so like free flow of capital free flow of goods and services right

now in theory you could say from the i m s perspective that's the way that you build well

right

but the question would be

build wealth for who

because if a developing country has no way to capture that wealth and internalize it into their market

well you're not really helping that developing country very much that's like the big difference between a country like sri lanka and maybe a country like

you know singapore where singapore had a lot of state

infrastructure and investment

and

very purposeful policies so that they could capture the wealth of their nation

associated with their liberal trading

a schemes that they developed right

and so this is where the criticism of the i m f i think is very very cogent

it's just that i think that where the criticism sort of falls apart is when

we ascribe like almost a conspiratorial view

to the i m f

apologies a conspiratorial view to the i m f but also like altruistic intentions

for china

that's all that i'm pushing but i'm not i'm not really i don't think i'm not saying either of them are i'm saying neither of them are debt ropping countries

wheres your saying

one is and one isn't well i think i don't think there iseeds to be a conspiracy i think we have to look at the surface of the respective foreign policy agendas

of the us versus china

you know and the way these economies actually operate like

china has a very clear policy of not caring

about the internal policies of another country

right they don't

they're not

at trying to like set an agenda

of controlling

other countries right and also china doesn't have a history of anything comparable

to western colonialism

right the colonial systems that supposedly were dismantled

in the sixties and seventies and throughout the cold war the post waryears right

that mean that arrangement with the west

didn't simply disappear right so there has to be a way to kind of maintain

is

flows of goods and

you know these also these financial flows

most importantly i would argue

from from the colonial era which the west is still dependent on right

so

to me it's like the west very has a very clear paradigm of colonialism

was

you know um

the exporting quote unquote democracy and liberalism and stuff in china

doesn't right so i think it doesn't have to be a conspiracy is just you have to look at it from the perspective of

historical president

oh sure there's obviously a history of colonialism in the world right and the debate is less i think the debate is a little's fair maybe there's some people that would say that

there's never been colonialism but i'm not sure if anybody's ever genuinely said that but i would just say that

um

typically the debate is to what extent colonialism happens today

and the second part is like to what extent is colonialism the bedrock of

the western economic order

and

uh many people would say it's the absolute bedrock right it's the most it's the most important piece that's holding the western economy together

i and then some people would say actually it's a very small amount

of the current economy of the current economy

m now

i think that with regard to your other point about china not exporting their sort of governing ideology

i think that's true to a certain extent right china doesn't tend to really care

who buys their products like how they govern themselves whether it's like

you know saudi arabia theocratic you know

autocratic country

or like a fairly developed liberal democracy like norway

um or you know something in between whatever you know on that spectrum

um

and on one hand you could say that this is good because they're not imposing their will in other countries

on the other hand if you have a bias for governing says like if you have a preference for how the government should run

um then we could imagine how soft power

used to build up a more reformist or you know generally more

uh you know whatever version of government you prefer how that could be

a positive and also not necessarily it's the s what doesn't really seem like

it's so there seems to be multiple layers of its intentions with other countries right

so

democracy is something i put in quotations because it's usually a way to erode

the degree of the a country's ability to exercise sovereignty

over its own economy

and over its own

it's country in general right

then on the other hand the ngos

and

you know in the things in civil society that are you know

couraged

like at the level of policies relating to culture and things like that

yeah the u s has a very consistent policy but i don't necessarily think

that's just based on ideology i also think that's a way to

uh open these countries

markets and

also ideological orientation and so on and so on

more because i

well yeah because from the u s is perspective if you're a country that's like got a lot of oil for instance

and you are like antagonistic towards the u s for one reason or another

well obviously from the u s perspective it's better for that oil to be freeing

to be free flowing into the market

because that means that our

producers have access to that oil whereas if you're curtailing production to one area or another that's not in the national security interest of

the united states right

and so

that to me that's like the motivation for some of the

a sort of regime change that has happened on the base of can you repeat that for me please i ind of

yeah sure so i mean

like obviously if you so say like for like iraq for instance right

yeah

pre two thousand and three before the invasion like the

you know the the

the

what do they they called it it was like the provisional government they had set up in iraq before like the

be the actual iraqi government they have today

yeah

so before that

obviously saddam was like

quite a antagonisict toic person to western interest right he wasn't really quite a pro western

arab leader

right

and so

from the u s perspective it's like ok well we need oil you know we like oil because we need it for a lot of our stuff

so if we've got a scenario where

iraq is being

you know against or like counter to our interests

we

now have a national security reason

for why we would be interested in a free flow of that good of that you know resource oil you mean like kind of like

the theft

of the good

well i mean because

i'm trying to

i'm trying to build an olve branch here and say that

obviously it's the case that from the u s perspective

a liberal market

in other countries

i

is advantageous because we're a rich powerful country and the more liberal and free flowing your goods and capital the easier it is for

u s investors to buy your stuff

yeah

and so

that's true on one hand right and then on the other hand it's also true that

the us does have like an ideological predisposition that they try to export

sometimes not very successfully agreed

i

and so

you know there's a

there's a mixture here that i think is valuable

uh between those two perspectives right it's a

it's probably not always the case that the

a u s government is acting like purely in sort of rational self interest and it's also probably the case that

they're not always acting aultruistically but that's no different from any state in the entire world

it's just that we have preferences for how we might want to be governed

like for me obviously i prefer like more of a

liberal democracy kind of style system and then some people might prefer a more

sort of autocratic or like state controlled system like in china

and so you know that's really the

you know that's really the debate i guess

yeah i think the main point i was trying to get here is that

china's belt and road initiative is not

comparable to the i m f

and that

far as my knowledge is concerned i still have yet to be confronted with an example

china has not engaged in debt trapped diplomacy

m

so i'm not saying so to be clear again i'm not saying china is trying to dettrap these countries again i'm viewing the i m f and china

as creditors that are giving loans that they want to be paid back

right and so to the extent that they are well you knowt i don't know if i am

wants to be paid back as much as it wants to establish a relation of

basically indebtedness that will allow

consistent revenues

they come from other countries

well i

well well what do you mean by revenue right because if they're not paying their loan back

you're kind of

you know shooting yourself in the foot with regard to collecting revenue rightight but well no because you're you have interest

right what you're collecting

and on the other hand you also have an unprecedented degree of control of being able to

control the policy of control

country to dictate the terms of

you know you create this

cycle of vicious dependence it's a vicious cycle

i guess so i think that you'd have to

at war

so obviously there's examples of the i m f

negotiating

a structural changes to like countries policies

that obviously exists

m but

i think that there's like for instance i think that the i m f specifically like they they're they seem to be changing

to a relatively large degree i

so like for instance i have a list here because i was researching this a

i think for some debate or something

but there was a a

oh here it is um

so the i m f has recently come out and like changed a lot of their

policies or like their internal viewpoints so one of the things that they came out that i thought was pretty significant i think it was in two thousand and twelve to be fair so this was like ten years ago

was that they actually endorsed the use of capital controls

andm

and that's an example of like

wow

this is clearly against

like the standard ethos of the i m f right and

it's clearly against like a standard sort of

liberal

economic order right capital controls is like the probably the biggest no no that you could probably think of

um and so i mean that's just one example of i think the i m f is kind of coming out of this sort of

the washington consensus tile

thinking

and i think that the fact that they would come out of that at all

would show at least

credence to my thought

which is that the i m f is acting kind of as a bank

kind of as a bad bank because they're not

he the

they they do tend oftentimes to have to get their loans

restructured because they cannot be paid back

but

and they're acting as a bank they want their money to get paid back and they want to sustainably finance these countries and that's the motivations of their policy changes

and the origination of their policies

yeah but i think this belie like this is you have to have a broader perspective about

profhitts today is derivative

right it's like so these loans that the i m f is giving

also play a role in

the financial profits

the derivative profits write of these sums

like extremely abstract global financial institutions

whose ability to maintain a blottom line bottom line is not as simple as like

you know a bank that's giving out a loan and then it wants to be paid back it's loan like

what do you mean by derivative i just don't know what you mean by that

well sometimes dead

is more valuable than being paid back

the thing

because of we g it know it sounds like what you're saying ability to charge interest right

yeah it sounds like what you're saying is like throughout

this is that

the

like in part they want to have interest payments right and then also in part they want to have the economic control right so all i'm saying is that

i think that the i m f has come out especially in the last decade and they seem to have changed their institutional view right so

part of its endorsing capital controls i have a couple papers that they published where they said that

you know redistribution doesn't hurt growth right so these types of welfare policies that

countries have don't necessarily just tank growth

and it's important to have a balanced perspective on

financing a country especially if they're accepting an i m f loan

and so they come out in favor in a paper i think it's from twenty eleven

ofuh of like a plethora of like welfare style policies so

yeh i arn that but that doesn't really have a lot to do with economic sovereignty of having

national industry and kind of like soli we hold on

yeah but if you're

well hold on well because if you're

if your big thing is

well i just don't like that the i m f is

an international body negotiating independently with countries because countries now have to negotiate with the i m f instead of just do what they want

it's almost like a critique of internationalism or globalism itself and less of like the i m f right because every

multinational corporation arguably is entrenchment

to some extent on

international sovereignty like for instance there was a there was a story that came out in twenty

maybe it was like twenty eighteen or twenty seventeen or something it was a while ago

where the e u changed a

law regarding their internet privacy and this is when like everyone got like everyone got like a thirty e mails about

companies having to change their privacy policies

and what happened was because that you changed their policy

so many

corporations that you know control the internet and like multinational corporations

figured well if we're going to do it for the eu might as well do it company wide because it's too complicated to do otherwise and so this reason i ot of is sue i am from trying to get itt here isn't simply that

you know countries don't have to make a deal with an international body

i think that the i m f has a track record of making countries

underdeveloped

and

reliant

upon not only i m fs institution but as on basically the western bloc

a geopolitically

it's which which i do di think contributes to their ability to actually develop

i think it contributes to their ability to be

blooted and kind of parasitically sucked dry of any semblance

of

economic

you know

um

production but i don't think it actually has anything to do with

just the fact that they're negotiating with con

with international body

ok yeah it's not about what the i m f is asking these countries to do

it's right it's not about the fact that the i m f is asking these countries to do things

as much as it is what they're asking them to do and what their intentions are

well ok well yeah well then that kind of just goes back to the kind of reforms that i was talking about the i m f engaging in right so like changing their view on capital controls endorsing many different forms of welfare that in theory would be but the issu is the are countries yeah but what welfare and capital control is not actually

what secures an independent path development an independent path development

has more to do with focusing on

making an economy that's based on the production of real physical things whether that's infrastructure

or domestic national industry

or things like that were credit is going to be used to actually build up

like

the real economy right and i don't think the

regardless of steps taken to promote welfare or

capital controls i don't think the i m f has really laid out a comprehensive agenda of

like industrial developmentalism

althon n to be for well to be fair though that's why i'm saying that the comparison itself kind of falls apart right because

the

i m f is not as far as i'm aware they don't engage in a lot of development aid that's not like their goal right the i m f goal is to

try and ensure that

that countries are

at a macro level sustainably financed right so if you're going to the i m f for a loan

but you have because you see how like right in having a real economy in industrial development is the key

they're not going bankrupt

yeah i agree you know i agree with that to some extent right because obviously typically countries don't just become service economies they they have to you know they usually start you know agricultural then they transition to more intermediate goods and then they tend to you know transition more service oriented economies right

so i agree with that

right i'm just saying that the i m f goal is not to

like

take a country that is currently

developing and make it a developed country typically countries come to the i m f

because they need relief because of their

credit agreements they got in or like whatever the situation is because you know what it more rational for the i m s loans to be targeted toward more

investment in

like similar to the belt and road initiative if that's what its real goal is

yeah so if if we were to compare like international development banks right we wouldn't be looking at the i m f we'd be looking at something like the world bank right or the world and like worse example of that

and

well i mean the world bank as far as i'm aware and i'm a lot less well read on the

world bank than the i m f but as far as i'm aware the world bank does a lot more development aid

and like infrastructure development then the

like the o im f just doesn't do that right so like the world bank is really the world bank plays like a similar role

in

craating a vicious cycle of death

for these conferees

well from the world banks perspective right like if your goal is you know we try to provide loans for

essentially infrastructure projects and like you know electrification and water water development stuff like that

well i mean what is like fundamentally the difference between that and china offering a loan to a country to build a port right i mean it's just so because it has to do with like the targeted nature of the investments

our infrastructure

like the world the world bang

doesn't engage in these specific targeted and

investments

in the way that w you

like what's what's the b i mean because i'm i'm i'm saying i'm genuinely less well read on it do you mean they don't

they don't engage in

targeted investments i mean i assume the world bank picks

different projects to

you know to find right and they go from way it doesn't it doesn't lay out like a comprehensive plan

to develop the country

it's a it it's um

you know it asists

the private sector to invest in these new markets

but i don't i don't think well i don't think china i don't think china has

i don't think they look at sri lanka and they say

how can we

holistically in you know

develop your infrastructure so that you develop right so what i said in the originally was

they try to develop these countries to the extent that they can buy products from china right and if that means

you know hey you need to enable us shipping in the case of building a port

if that's

hey like in the case of pakistan we're going to build a shit load of highway infrastructure because we want to be able to like drive our trucks from china

all the way over to the

you know i guess uh the middle east and like you know eastern europe or stuff like that

right i mean this isn't like a holistic strategy for how to develop pakistan right pakistan's end up getting you know they've been

eclipse by bangladesh

in terms of g d p per capita at the same time that

china is engaging in all this belt and road investment in pakistan right so

i don't think the chinese strategy is particularly holistic either

right it seems like

you know

basically the world bank tries to develop select infrastructure projects for whatever reason that they want

and then china does the same for their own motivations

yea but

you can you name examples of the world baning

investing in infrastructure like

so china is not holistically developing the sri lankan

because that's not what sri lanka wants from china but

china's developments and investments in africa are definitely target

have the long term goal in mind

of developing these countries as a whole

to make them

basically more prosperous

so like you said they can buy chinese goods

one day

ya okay i mean

i well i agree right i'm just all i'm saying is that it sounds like the way that you're framing it is like

china is coming in and they're saying

ha sri lanka haye pakistan you know hey this country that country whatever because okan like all the countries involved in the belt road initiative which is like

half countries in the world or something like that

yh

we're going to come in we're going to we're going to build this that and this and the reason is because you need to develop right and i think rather what they're engaging in is a little bit more of a piecemeal approach which is similar to like the world bank where

they're just looking for good infrastructure projects to build

one at a time or not like not literally one at a well like thing is equentially with each other

the the issue is that the world bank is pretty much the same as the i m f in terms of

having structural loans regardless of what the loans are for

it's these are still structural loans

that are ultimately meant to alter the country's policies

yes like what what what kind of

structural finance

like what kind of uh structural finance has uh

a social finance strong where it's called them

i can't remember the term the i m f uses but like what are the types of oh con concessional financing what are the types of like concessions

that

the world bank is extracted out of countries in exchange for infrastructure development

sure so

um

what kind ofm like what kind of i'm looking at like

what kind of policies does it demand for a country based on paying back the loans

yeah because you're because you're saying the world bank does the same type of structural adjustment loans as the i m f and i i'm not really no no i'm saying that

the world

um

yeah when a country goes bankrupt it doesn't go to the world bank

right

right because they're they have very different goals yeah and

when the world thank is going to grant a loan

you're saying that's unconditional

well i so i'm not really saying much about the world bank bea is again i'm not as well read on it but i'm saying that the world bank engages in development aid right so they might have some conditions in the sense that like

hey we need the permits to actually develop this we need to be sure it's not a regulatory hurdle

um obviously you need to agree to our loan terms so for instance if you're going to agree to a loan there's like

you know conditions by which you pay back your loan but obviously china does the same thing yeah but

and so i'm just i'm genuinely asking the question like beusere because you're making the case that

like the world bank has a similar like

conditional financing like hey were he we're going to build this bridge for you

you need to like

privatize

you know you're

likeuck in transit system or something like that right

but i don't

does that happen i mean i' you seem to know more about it than i do so

i mean you tell me

i like i'm looking i'm looking at this right here right so yes for an example i just googled

world bank infrastructure projects and i found

something from march twenty fifth world bank increasing investment in madagascar's transport sector

and they approved a

a four hundred million dollar i assume it's a loan to

gasy stardin that the world bank does

demand market liberalization and in return for loans but i am going to look for specific examples of that

yeah maybe you can find some i know that the world bank is not criticized nearly as much as the i m f because the i m f engages in more like i said like

macroeconomic type

type dealings because again if you go to the i m f

you're basicly it's basically because you need a bailout

right and so that's where this concessional financing comes up but

you know

the

maybe your chat has a

if anyone if anyone's chat has examples of the world bank doing

bad things it'll be your chats maybe there's i'm not looking at chats right now

but u

take

ie on chat you can do it

link us link us a couple stories

all right so there are structural adjustments

that's all right what up there yeah

so the world banks they call them s a p s right structural

um

structural adjustment programs which the world bank does en gage in

so

worldmping structural adjustment

programs

so i'm looking on their website right now

the're not providing data let me give the specific examples

yeah

because because these my yeah my issoes that the world bank in the i m f are so closely intertwined

that's usually on

usually

yeah yeah the world bank offers all kinds of stre we're looking for specific examples i know this is like

alice would use you the heavily p publicized examples

come from the i m f so the world bank's specific examples it's not like that

ali publicized like

so let's see the world bank

oh

ya but it it also might

well yeah but it might it might also just not be like

i just don't think the

i mean can i could be wrong but i thought i just don't know if the world bank has as much a l because you got to keep in mind like the motivations like

because

and like the ability to ok if youre it is so this is the the

is this the world bank

memorandum of economic policies of the government

of ecuador

over two thousand

that's the imf that's not the focking world bang

it's the problem that's aight so like so just while you're looking for i was going se guys focusll these people are focused on the heavily publicized i know i i know but i'm saying i'm saying that to the chat and what i would you deny that the world thing

has structural adjustment programs

i mean you just you just google that i have no reason to think that they don't right i'm just saying that we have to look at the conditions

of that structural adjustment

and like what the structural adjustment actually is because

from my point of view right we it's what's being said is that

it is based on market liberalizations

it's just that ok

the increasing demand for structurre adjustments this is wikipedia the boundaries between s al and other types of loans issued by enerymisan

and world bank yeah they're usually talked about together another type of loan issue by the world bank

sector adjustment loans differs from s a l only the former places more emphasis on improving one economic sector

ratheran the entire economy

so sometimes they focus on specific sectors i know agriculture is a big example of that i'm just looking for like a case of

a specific one country because usually the i m f and the world bank work together in tandem so usually a lot of the cases

where you have these heavily publicized dum

um

i m f cases the world bank is also involved

world banks development vehicles called the i b r d the world bank yeah but let's get a specific example guys like for a specific

contry

we're looking for

just i mean just something i don't know you know i'm i'm a

i could i could learn a little something here as well by the international an and the world bank loans to the present developing countries

their loans are intended to address different problems the im f mainly lenks to countries that have bounce of payment problems

the world bank offers loans to fund partigar development projects

oweur world bank also provides balance of payment support

so both of them

provide similar

structural adjustment programs

it's just that the

okay here's a case world bank approves five hundred million dollar loan

support india's informal working class amid pandemics

and yeah i saw that i'd be finaning by a concessionary lending arm international development association

be a loan from the international bank for reconstruction and development

right i

yeah but i guess

we would just need to see if they actually

its just because it's coming through that are also another one world bank approves three hundred forty one million dollars loans to turkey for green agriculture

right but that's

right i'm not saying they don't encourage the climate smart technologies

ya yeah again i'm not slep

okay so

we

i mean if one of your

so i the if the idea is like the world bank

does conditional financing

and in this case it is like the world being provided alone and the condition is you invest in

like

climate technology

and that's another one here that ispell reasons more recently from turkey so year's one from south africa

world bank lo conditions for south africa cut the wage bill and no bailouts for state companies

so the world bank told south evera's government it has to cut its wage bill to qualify for a loan

of as much as two billion and agree the money won't be used to bail out insolvent state companies

so world bank operates in a similar way as the i m f

i was saying

well cut its way i don't know what that means cut its wage bill

so like i know there is a bill

supposedly to increase

wages

right which it has to

like w i don't i don't know what that i don't know what that means right so like for

ih

i do't know sorry like a wage bill is on

the total amount paid in wages by a business or industry

so asyms its the cout

the amount of wages being paid

to people

work

ya okay so um

okay yeah so i i don't know the context of why they would do that right but i think that uh

well it'st and there's literally no different than the i m f they're trying to change countri'es economic policies

right so i'm not so again i'm not

i'm not saying that

like you googled it and i took you at your word that the the world bank does some of this stuff right

that's

i mean of course right

um

so i'm not disagreeing with that right i'm just saying that we have to engage in

some contextual analysis like we did with china as well

right

i mean i think that in the case of the world bank where they're doing a lot of

basically infrastructure development

and well i think the common theme is that it's based on austerity of countries having to

invest less

in their own economies and their own sovereign industries like ok for example if you look at this case they don't want the money to be used to bail out state companies well state companies

are an arm of south africa's economic sovereignty state companies allow south africa

they have a level of economic sovereignty right which the u s

what was the what was the two billion dollar loan for

because i mean because you can imagine right so like if you're because because bloated

because it look onunt brougt one billion from the new development bank the lending arm of the bridg ok so that's not that

i think it was general that these were emergency loans to combat the immediate impact of the coronavirus outbreak

okay ya so

right so

i mean in this case it sounds like what they said was

here's two billion dollars

do you know do what you want with it

and the condition is don't use it to bail out state companies

and

cu cut the wage bill whatever that means right um and so

at least

from my perspective it sounds like what they're saying is like don't use this to subsidize wages and don't use it to

to

no it has to cut its wage bill to qualify for the loan in the first place

i don't know that's what i don't know what that means though right like on on one hand there could you was like

yeah it has to cut its wage bill to qualify for a loan

first place ok

let's look up what this means

south africa

wage

bill

world bank

because i don't

i

okay caause i don't know what this means um

let's see

wage bill

am

public sector wage bill

ok well it sounds like

if

ok

i think we're getting to the bottom of this very quickly and it's not it's not a great example it doesn't sound like but

ya okay so

it sounds like

the wage bill

was the

a public sector wage bill so it says that

a wage agreement between south africa's government civil servants

will cost about twenty billion rand which is about one point three billion dollars

m

yeah i mean so well it sounds like what they're basically concerned about is like a really bloated bureaucratic state

right so on one hand a all the all that they're saying that's w i was just me let me finish here so it seems like all that they're saying is that

well

you've got

like here's two billion dollars do anything you want with it

but

don't

you know pay a lot of money for your bloated bureaucratic state and bailout state industry

right i mean to me that

what they're not saying don't use the money doesn't pay waages they're saying they want south africa to cut its wage bill

they're saying yeahyea they're saying

don't increase the pay of puble they're saying like we're not saying don't increase they're saying cut

what you have now

noo

ok when they say a call ale are they to qualify for it you have to cut the wage bill

i ok i think i'm starting to put this together now when they say cut the bill they're saying

they're not saying like a piece of legislation like a bill in congress i know i know wage bill is

yeah ya so when they say when they say cut the wage bill they're saying

you need to

basically de bureaucraties your you know state government to some extent right or the have that like that' some

that's a way of putting it right but it is a way of

i mean this is just money that's supposedly immediate relief for the corona virus pandemic and

the world bank is now stepping in and telling south africa it has to

you know alter the nature of

how it runs its economy in general

no i see i see what you're saying no no i get what you're saying now i i fully understand so it sounds like we could get a

and

it seems like we could hit

a fundamental disagreement here right which is that

i don't so if you're the world bank

right and you see south africas like struggling to meet its obligations

and you look at their economy and you say ok like why why can't they pay their bills like why do they need a loan from us in the first place right and one of those reasons you might come to is

well they have a really inefficient and large bureaucratic state

i

and so if they're going to take a loan from us we need to be sure that

basically the loan doesn't just enable

like poor fiscal management

right and so but that's the language that i m f also uses to

implement its austerity polici i mean this is what the eu this is language the u used to

implement austerity in greece

wherever i mean it's like

that's the language ier see therey is like you know you have a bit of an ited bureaucracy and

you need to you know

cut the red tabe we i mean

i think austerity is a little i think there's a difference between austerity as a means of like

like we're just cutting

bureaucracy and then there's austerity where it's like we're cutting welfare and like government services that people rely on right so right if that examples too much for you because i guess you're getting hung up on

you know ando i what i'm trying to say this a what i'm tring to say also want to mele with belarus when

the world bank demanded that as a condition of getting a

a billion in loans

from the world bank they have to adopt italy's model of

weron a virs lockdowns which would have hurt

bellaruss economy right and if you don't like that example right there's another example here for pakistan

of three hundred and fifty million dollars

and it hears the four conditions that they set

c

he set forth one of the sons saying that in order to get this loan

um

mmhm

they perad where they layout

let me see

wor conditions

the conditions include bringing the center and provinces under one general sales tax

amending fiscal responsibility and debt limitation act

through parliament

harmonization of gs t through the center provinces is main

so these are two of them the other two are

two remaining conditions are

o actions are removal of circular deat

in line with the circular depth management plan and recovery of

areas of power sector for approval of three hundred and fifty million programmes

ya so

i mean this is an example where it sounds like what they're saying is you need to uh

basically create a national tax base

which

again i can understand that if they're talking about the sustain ability of paying back a loan

um

and i guess the last one has to do with

some sort of power infrastructure or something like that i mean

what i was going to say and you know when it comes to these examples and stuff is that it sounds like we just have like

a fundamental disagreement whereas

on one hand you're saying

i'm just kind of against when

international sort of lending organizations try to change how a government w and there's a consistent record of them trying to change governments in ways that

underdevelops these and creates a vicious cycle of dependence that's

that's what i'm trying yeah i you know

and i don't

disagree that there's a history

i think the world bank a lot less so than the i m f but

like i don't disagree that there's a history of the i m f especially engaging in lending practices that certainly are to the detriment of

the countries that they're lending well there's all sorts of new like green

restructuring that they want to impose

carbon tax credits and

curtailing on you know you and you know the

that curtailing the production of

energy

is like the number one way to destroy a country's ability to develop

right

so wle

there they're not

well they're jus

ll they're just saying that

you we want you to develop green energy like sustainable

you know

development rate which is

probably a good thing for

the planet right i mean you know you want ideally if a country could choose between building a gas plant or a solar plant right

if you will no it's not one does

these countries need this relief

right

um

it's like im f it's like the world banks saying a here take this money to make green energy

sying he seems like that's it would turkey

the you used an example of turkey where that seems like exactly what they did

it was like o we're giving you

well not ex all accurate because

yeah not exactly hold on

yeah i don't i mean look look again i just all that i'm saying is that i just i don't think it's necessarily the worst thing go back to the examer turkey and

yeah i don't i don't think the worst me in the

part of a project to support turkey's agricultural sector so turkey's agricultural sectors in need of loans right

yeah it's well

yeah we know

we well we don't know we don't know the context of this loan happening but all it's saying is that

um

we're trying to create like

like the loan seems to be for creating a more like

climate friendly agricultural sector which

i assume is like carbon capture or like agregings issue agrisolar the issue is that the i m f and the world bank work in tandem

right

they work together and the i m f does not actually prod

promote

the development of infrastructure and industry in this in a way that's even close to how china does

because the the world the chinese way doesn't impose all of these additional burdens

and structural adjustments and strings attached

which ultimately are you knocking these countries over

well there's kind of two problems here right one is that a lot of the currents like a lot of the currently outstanding i am have agreements are not actually public

um i think that ukraine

a the ukrainian agreement is public because they made it public but most of these agreements aren't public so it's hard to analyze right and then at the same time

i

the chinese debt terms are also fairly opaque so it's hard to say like what exactly the terms of their loans are

whether they have some sort of cont concessional terms or

you know what have you because china doesn't

doesn't actually publish that either

right now the i m f just happens to have a longer history so it's easier to criticize them from a historical perspective and i agree with a lot of that historical criticism

right i'm just saying that

it's difficult to give china a lot of credit

um because it seems that they they do have some

you know

sustainable finance problems similar to some of the i m f agreements and the actual conditions by which those agreements are signed are not actually

for public view

right and so we kind of have to engage in

some amount of speculation on either side

anm

i'm sorry i don'ed out what did you say

that's okay i'm a i'm a pretty boring guy but

my my big point is just that a lot of the chinese lending terms are opaque and they're not public and

uh in general we have to engage in a lot of speculation in order to actually

uh you know analyze whether or not china is doing very similar things to what the i m f is doing because they don't actually release

what their lending terms are

some

but i think china has shown from what we've seen like the record is very clear china is interested

in promoting a real economy not adding all these

strings which contribute to underdevelopment

and china's a in the world it's a itas developmental philosophi is completely different

thean the west and i think that's enough to understand and know what

you know to to it to infer we can't do with absolute certainty but

i think it's pretty clear that china has a very different approach

then the i m f in the world bank

just because the developmental philosophy underpinning

not only china's view model of like

what is the key to

a country being able to grow

but also china's view

about

how its long term strategy of life

ok how does china's economy continue to maintain its ability to be sustainable

we clearly need to cooperate with other countries like what is the china's model for

multilateral

economic

cooperation and partnerships is that china doesn't have

of you

based on financial parasysm china really does want other countries to develop

real things in the real economy

it's all really consistent with china's own paradigm for how it developed its own country

right

its fiasics developmentalism

right i get that all that i would say is that

i don't think that

i don't think that the goal of the i m f

or the world bank

is to debt trap countries

i think similarly to china somewhat their goal is rather to develop these countries to the extent that they can sustainably finance themselves right

now you're right that they might have fundamentally different views on development

and that seems to be the case let me put it this way do you think that the i m f in the world bank

do you think that there's private institutions involved

with them

um

what do you what do you mean like i'm sure that they

they probably have industry consultants and they

probably hire a lot of people from industry i mean

yeah i would

like theyre that you know they're big organization i mean similar like

there's a lot of private organizations you think that some of the les lows of debt

and finance also and the

benefiting western financial institutions

uh ns fans and you know

all this kind of stuff

well i don't think that the i m f securitizes

any of their

debt instruments so i don't really think that

i don't

i don't think any of the lending agreements that the i m f agrees to ends up

being bought and sold like on a debt market like on a secondary market

yeah i don't think they securitize it directly either

but don't you think that this plays a big role in the flow

h

international

um

financial revenues

you're saying that the structural adjustment policies lead to a lot of profits

to

for like hedge fund type guys

not just hedge fund type people but like international

private financial institutions

yeah are like what the mainstay of western economies

ya know that's that's what i'm saying is that the

the the bedrock of the i m f

a sort of

analysis for a long time was the idea that

the way that a country builds wealth

is the free flow of goods

in services and capital

right and just you know liberalization generally like privatization

and that's obviously not true

right m

now obviously you cant thl think when things are privatized in these countries don't think they're bought up

by financial institutions in the west

it depends on how they're privatized right so for instance you can look at the development story of the

of a slovenia

right and you can see a very purposeful and methodical privatization after

m after the fall of yugoslavia

right and what that led to was a much more equitable society

today relative to their other yugoslavian counterparts

right and so it's obviously the case that sometimes privatization does work

to the advantage of the people

ian sometimes it very much does not

and so it really just depends

and so i think that what i was trying to say was that the i m f obviously for a long time operated under the assumption that

privatization is just good

and also you need to liberalize basically every aspect of your economy

but what they didn't really care for was

a state apparatus or like structures by which

those countries could internalize that well that's why the i m f coming out in favor of capital controls and redistribution

is a pretty good thing

at least if you care about like you said sustainably developing these countries such that they can build their own wealth

and that's why i think it's unfortunate a lot abouting sustainably developing them so they can build their own wealth

keyword being their own

as much as maintaining

the necessary level of social stability

that's necessary for the political powers that

enable these arrangements to continue to be in power but

we i don't really know anything about the case of slovenia and its details so i'll pass on commenting on that i'm not familiar with it at all

ll svenia is just an example of how

like

you it's a it's a case study of how

post

sort of

communist societies or like post soviet style

economy this the old on the problem already is that yugoslavia was not

a soviet style economy at all it was already a

the market economy

which you know it was a tito is like socialist project right and so the i the reason i say

ideological they didn't have the kind of central

state planning of the soviet union

or even the other warsaw pact countries which

course i should say the war saw pack countries which you know

we're actually we barely more living than

soviet union and themselves but

yugoslavia was like

pretty much just like

a market

economy with a welfare state and

no no they had a lot there was a lot of state direction and state planning in yugoslavia the only there also is there also is in

mean every modern country has

a lot of state

heavy handed involvement in the economy but you go slow relative

relative to the early tito government though i'm not i'm not sure we could make that statement i think that the unique part about the u s lobbyan economy was the use of workers councils and like worker cooperatives and market mechanics that's true the worker but that was just kind of like a cultural thing right the way it's economy was definitely not closed off

to the western markets i mean it was a country that was thog i wasn't i wasn't i'm not s i'm not i'm not making thate it was end a all that i'm loans like

yugoslavviaus economy was was

i get that yeah all that i'm saying is that the that

we can we can compare

yugoslavian economies right and how they

reacted after the partition and after like the one nine hundred ninety s style collapse that they found

and we can compare them right and so if you were to compare with sylvenia it's a like

uh you know like serbia for instance right you you would see very different growth stories and a lot of it has to do

with how they came out

of the tito period

and it seems like sylvenia is a good example of how you

could

to engage in some liberalization and privatization

to the benefit of your people

m without sacrificing all of your ability to internalize that wealth and circulze that wealth right so i'm i agree that there needs to be those structures in place

the i m f disagreed for a long time

what i'm saying is that in the modern era

it seems like they agree

it seems like we all agree now right the only thing is that a lot of their modern lending terms are private

so it's it's hard to say like

to what extent they're actually

implementing that in practice i can tell you that in you know when the

twenty twenty covered recession was happening

it didn't seem like there was a lot of news of like incredibly incredibly harsh structural adjustment policies that the you know the i m f was engaging in

but only time caes hell i mean a lot ofarot of a lot of the

with china w therele a lot of the worst examples of the i m f

a come from

like the early two thousand and the one nine hundred ninet s right over twenty years later so maybe right ters well this will be the im is starting to have to be a little more competitive with china because countries are simply

burning to china now what

you know

without that pressure from china i think it's very clear

how the i mf behave

um

you're saying

oh you're saying that

because china is like

competing with the i m f the i am i i look i like i put it this way right just a simple k and the's everything

western economies and

are not based on the production or even the facilitation of the production of physical things

they're based on

the they're based on like

the economy being green which i which is to say they're based on profits whether that's in the form of like

incomprehensible financial abstractions like the various types of derivatives and other securities

it's like

profit at all costs that's what the western economy's pretty much based on right

a whereas china's economy is more oriented toward

a developmentalist approach of

growing the

actual forces of production right it's a completely different philosophy

so

well in the aim to make profit though right i mean that's

actually no profit for the chinese is actually just an indication

that

your

production is sustainable

right but it's not actually the ens itself

that's why china is actually much more forgiving

then the i m f when it comes to its loans

um

because china doesn't see profit as the actual ends china sees profit as just

part of what makes

part of what indicates to us information about a

you know i

the status of development and the status of

the forces are production developing

yeah sure i mean i i agree with that but the i mean the

well i well well i agree with that to some extent so like obviously the

obviously the

chinese economy is based on manufacturing right so

you know making like physical goods like you're saying and obviously the bulk of the western economies are service oriented it's not it's not just that

so china's

has a very different

um

relationship

between the banking sector and the rest of the economy as well

china takes out loans not to simply throw money at the economy

but to actually go into a little bit of debt building infrastructure or building cities or building other types of real things physical things

which you know' get paid off later because for the chinese the wellspring and source of economic growth and wealth

comes from physical things so china will actually sacrifice

money right

in order to actually contribute to investing into what the source of money comes from right

yeah construction is also

it's the same thing right

whereas western economies don't seem to

place

that much of an emphasis on making real things as much as they do

i

you know just profit

well maybe i mean i think

well

you know i think that the like the u s as an example we invest like hundreds of billions of dollars

a year

into

you know infrastructure

development obviously that's not that's not even including biden's infrastructure ability past right so i

you may maintenance

well maintenance and also new constructions like expanding highways and stuff like that and like you know building things and whatnot and

obviously china has you know china somewhere the u s has to maintain their current infrastructure as well but

and

but no so i i mean i i don't

i think it's a little different also because china is

also a developing economy right so like for instance we could say that

well obviously the u s at one point built

shitload of infrastructure

because we didn't have any

right so china also to a certain extent probably has to focus a little bit more on building new infrastructure

because they are still a developing country they're not a like a per capita like wealthy country yet

and so they still need to invest a lot of i think the difference i think yes but i think the difference with that is that when the u s was on

like the highway system that was built by eisenhower is probably one of the biggest examples other shoitld during a new deal

there wasn't really a clear paradigm

of doing that over and over again like you had the

you know the great society of lyndon johnson and

other stuff but

you know toward the seventies and specially eighties and later on you see like a

inability for the u s to maintain a developmentalist

or infrastructure based regime whereas in china you know

china's always been building infrastructure it's been developing for

n

decades now

thirty years forty years

and you can see how china deals with issues of likele oky when

w when

it doesn't go right

and they need to have a new bout

right

of building infrastructure they do it with ease right the u s hasn't proven that they can like

actually make their economy about that

yeah sure but i think that you're you're sort of presuming that that's like a good thing necessarily like now i don't disagree right we should probably spend more on infrastructure

than we do today

right where i where i do disagree is just the idea that

and that's always a good thing like sort of perpetually

and i'm not sure if

if that is the case right there is a such thing as over investment and i think that there's a way to balance the

sort of infrastructure needs of a country

whilst at the same time ensuring that you're as effectively as possible

uh spending those dollars right so

m there's probably some meaningful difference there

um

and

the chinese economy also has a lot of problems as well right so it's not it's not an economy free of criticism certainly

um and if i had to

if i had to pick an economy to live in i would i would certainly pick the the

you know the best examples of of the western countries rather than china but

that's just me obviously

yeah m

honestly i kind of zoned out again i don't

a little bit it's o

it's late at night all right it's late

yes a late

where i am

but if you want we can

come to an end it was a

it was good talking to you though bud

it was a

you know ok simhlar to when i talked to

so when i talked to demon mama everyone said i

you know don't talk to haz don't talk to dema mamma they're crazy they're just going to yell at you the whole time but

you proved him wrong we had a good conversation it was fun

and and

yeah you know if you ever want to talk again about economics let's do it but i had a fun time

okay alright bye

have a good one

i thanked my viewers

bully shit

uh

there was a lot of other stuff

we had to cover like a lot

we e get to watch the cale mop and jimmy dorthing

wen't even get to do that

and

thank you

gread appreciate you

and what is this

was this an early streamstart fuk ner it was

holy shit rocks off

thank you so much rox stars

thatrack

thank you so much appreciate you

appreciate you so so much

so so much

alright um

he's lavrov

as mouch naster i eat

for

new reality taking shape

namius a novaialnsc a napalliar na mir

business t know who di frohly

you got the scuado it's the gopalar on the

the rose was say stage

our guds

yeah

yeah

yeah

yeah

yeah

i got to do like they and

work out

like i have to i' have been skipping like they for two weeks

so ianed time guys any time to go work out and do

like day and shit you know

we're not doing grp we're going to do a long stream tomorrow guys bye bye

se you tomorrow

i guys

let's say you

i guess