Haz vs James Hake | InfraredShow Debate

hey everybody tonight we're debating

communism and we're starting right now

with infrared's opening statement thanks

so much for being with us infrared the

floor is all yours

sure uh glad to be here thank you so

i think when we have a discussion uh

about

the over putting a overall historical

verdict on judging the legacy of

communism i do agree that when we're

talking about communism we do have to

talk about what that actually meant in

reality so this idea that you know

communism has never been tried or it

wasn't true communism or it doesn't

actually reflect the real thing

i think we don't have to that's not

something that has to be in dispute we

can all agree that communism

specifically in the 20th century refers

to a phenomena that begins with the

soviet union continuing through

countries like china

other countries

in the world outside of europe in

america

and the eastern bloc and so on and so on

as well as the legacy of capital c

communist movements uh within uh the

united states

and western europe and so on so i think

there's no dispute about the fact that

communism does have to refer to the you

know the thing that actually propped the

name into relevance and significance in

the first place

and to me

uh when you begin from there you have to

have a very honest and sober assessment

of the the record and the facts at hand

now the experience of communism was

obviously very bloody it was obviously

something that was fraught with

catastrophes to say the least economic

catastrophes

famines

moments of political terror and so on

and so on but we should have a more

broader uh

investigation and criticism

of whether this is specifically because

of communism rather than a feature of

modernity as such because the

modernization of let's say even the

western capitalist countries and the

world at large

fits the same pattern that we saw if not

far worse actually i would argue

in the case of communism the

prerequisites to the agricultural and

industrial modernization of the

non-communist world uh required in an

immense level of um

famines

social instability terror unrest

um colonialism slavery and so on and so

on in the new world genocide these are

all things that aren't um

that can't be

brushed to the side when we're

evaluating

how modernization takes place

historically

so to me you have to place communism

within that context of this question of

pre-modern and largely agrarian

societies confronting and trying to

persevere through this challenge of

modernity

and to me

uh modernity specifically in the form of

agricultural modernization

somehow historically inevitably leads to

this kind of

chaos

and uncertainty in the way food is

produced and in the way uh the

foundation of economies agricultures

um

is preserved right so this is obviously

something fraught with several you know

small mistakes can lead to catastrophic

outcomes but at the very least we can

say that these mistakes were on record

things that communist states learned

from uh after they were made very

quickly i should add and when you don't

only look at the negatives that are

mostly mass publicized as a result of

cold war anti-communist propaganda and

uh and elsewhere you have to also have a

fair and sober assessment of the

overwhelming achievements

of communist parties and leading their

respective peoples uh

to a position a social position far

superior

uh to than before whether in the realm

of literacy

medicine

access to a bare minimum of a standard

of living a basic dignified means of

livelihood a kind of guarantee of a job

so on and so on obviously this came to a

certain limit and crisis in the 1970s

where this primary standard of living

was no longer enough

to support the wants and desires and

aspirations of the peoples and communist

states but nonetheless i think

we can retrace and reevaluate the

original significance of communism

in order to now address and put into a

new light the challenges that we now

face today which our current liberal

order seems to be unable to um

to deal with we're facing a fourth

industrial revolution we're facing an

economic transition not uh dissimilar to

the one

that communists were addressing namely

the one from pre

modern agrarian societies to industrial

societies now we're in a situation of

industrial societies transitioning into

an era of smart cities and you know and

more internet based economy and more

kind of decentralization

and i think that communism has

uh a new newfound significance uh in

this regard

so i think i'll just uh end it there

you go thank you very much for that

opening statement infrared

want to let you know folks if it's your

first time here at modern day debate we

are thrilled to have you here no matter

what walk of life you are from and

we are also thrilled to have here james

hake thanks so much for being with us

the floor is all yours for your opening

statement as well well thank you and

thanks to haas infrared for

coming on as well this was today was my

introduction to haas and infrared and

what they

or he i think is they

believe i think he's a marxist leninist

leninist communist

what is interesting to me about him is

that he does not appear as rabidly

anti-white anti-christian anti-man is

the typical communists that i think of

that i run into

i don't know looking around america like

the democrats the black lives matter

antifa people the mainstream media types

and i i saw a video where he said you

can be patriotic and

and nationalists as well as communists

but i my take on communism is that it's

atheistic at its root

like you have to be an atheist to be a

good communist was one quote from a

famous communist i think i've heard

promoting the insane idea of equality

which is not an ideal nor is it the

truth the serpent told eve

in the garden of eden

that you can be equal with god and

that's a lie

and feminist communists have sought to

be equal with men

and it's just been a big mess since then

communism seems to be against men

and against nature

it's

around in america it has sought to

render the men unnecessary to the women

and to the children

and it's

it does not mind as he said famine

abortion forced vaccination

in the name of you know against healthy

individuals who are not at high risk

from diseases

that don't threaten them it's a

violation of individual they don't mind

in uh violation of individuals rights

for the so-called collective the greater

good

uh

it pushes the lie of anger to be angry

the communist unions

seek to persuade the angry so-called

workers

to

go up against and subvert the

the bosses who envisioned started built

and led the businesses that gave them

the jobs

and the communis the communists

sometimes pretend to be friends and want

mutual benefit for everyone

and some of them may sincerely feel that

way

but

in the end it's it's a phony thing the

best intentions

are the road to hell as you

may know

communists don't mind lying stealing and

killing to get their way many others do

too

dennis prager said words and ideas are

more important

for uh the intellectual which is the

same thing as a communist or a liberal

as then actions in reality

so

it's partly why the straight talking

nazis are much more maligned than the

sweet talking communists which the

mainstream media

is you know they have they have a they

pander to basically

in america i think what we we have

what's called what i call kami kami

capitalism

because

amazon google facebook

all these are in bed with the government

they support black lives matter antifa

just destruction of the country they

support the mass immigration that's

that's changing the face of the country

and the values of the country

they support the communist shutdowns in

the name of the

the virus that we have that has just

destroyed their competition or destroyed

the businesses and just meanwhile

they've made mass profits

and

that means more power for them as well

as for the government

in america we're already a socialist

country

you don't own your own land or property

you don't have a right to contract for

work with workers to pay them just one

or two dollars an hour if they want to

work that you know be a be an usher or

whatever we've lost a lot of jobs in

that way you have wealth redistribution

which is really more like ghetto

redistribution

through progressive tax and social

programs and affirmative action and all

these things you have the harsh hand of

law quonpo la coming down on innocent

capital protesters

because they are

the communism seeks to divide and

conquer the whites against the

the people of color or the people of

color really against the whites and the

liberals against the whites

and it's overwhelming the systems the um

in order to destroy them and rebuild

them in their image through immigration

you see the border is just being

destroyed

because they like to destroy and exploit

the crisis and then rebuild it in their

image

the government and the media

are just filled in my view with

communists from

joe biden and kamala harris to

nikki haley and

even perhaps greg abbott over in texas

i don't see capitalism as the opposite

of communism i see it really as good

versus evil so i see capitalism as as

just as many communists do as a stepping

stone

to communism because

when in capitalism we start to do well

and then we forget god

you know the saying goes

tough times make strong make strong men

strong men make good times

good times make

make a weak mint and then weak men make

tough times

and that's when the communists like to

strike

so

capitalism is supposed to be about

freedom but you can't have freedom as i

think john adams said without morality

so

freedom from

is supposed to be freedom from this

degeneracy but they push pornography and

all of that madness to just subvert

families

it's about envy

it's about made up words and false

ideals

things like racism and just division

satan came as the angel of light and

evil is

subtle it sounds good it's an imitation

of logic and morals

so that's communism don't fall for it

you gotta thank you very much james for

that opening statement as well and want

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with that thank you very much james and

infrared the floor is all yours for open

discussion

sure um i want to be kind of brief i

don't want to ramble too much but um

i think in the united states and this is

one of the things infrared wanted to

embark upon to kind of change people's

perception is that here in the united

states i think there's a lot of

confusion about what communism meant in

other countries and how that would apply

here and i think that for several

reasons there has come to be this kind

of confusion in this country that

there's this association with communism

and the experience of communism in

russia and china and existing communist

states that survived today and there's

this association with that with the

current um

you know the deep state and the

democratic establishment and george

soros and the ngos and

the kind of davos agenda for the great

reset there's this association between

communism and these things i think

because uh in the united states the

democrats are considered left

and the republicans are considered right

so people just have this idea that

communism is just

the like ultimate

logical conclusion of the democrats

current agenda but i think when you um

actually study the experience and

history of communism in the proper

context you will find that um

well for one there is a historical uh

tension between communism and religion

but that wasn't necessarily because

communism is inherently anti-religious

or even inherently atheist it was

because the religious establishments

that communists were

going up against in their respective

countries were deeply rotten and corrupt

to the core they defended the interests

of the very corrupt ruling class and you

know many normal ordinary religious

minded people could even see that within

these very same religious establishments

you had utmost cynicism and hypocrisy

these people that were occupying these

roles of religious power didn't actually

even believe in it themselves so there

wasn't even really any authentic faith

there themselves and for that reason

communists uh had taken in the very

beginning a negative stance toward

religion but as the experience of

communism was able to mature more

especially now

i think a certain understanding has

arrived that between communist

internationally and religion which

allows for a communism that has room for

faith not only does it have room for

faith but is actually able to rediscover

itself in the history of uh the world's

great face

frederick engels uh

marks his friend if you don't know who

he is

uh toward the end of his life he wrote

about how in

the early stages of christianity you

found pretty much a a very striking

parallel to the socialist and communist

movement in europe that the principles

and values of christianity

are strikingly similar to those of the

communists i mean

the president putin of russia has

pointed out that the uh the code of

communist builders which was the soviet

um kind of like handbook for the

komsomol youth

he said all of these things are already

to be found in the bible so

around the world especially in russia

with its communist party and in latin

america and in the middle east

and i hope in the united states

communism has not only been proven to be

perfectly compatible with faith

but they appear to even complement each

other because

from the perspective of the world's

great religions we can see the kind of

corruption and and decadence and

inhumanity

uh that capitalism has brought upon the

peoples of the world

and the way in which this has to be

addressed economically and politically

um

seems to be very much compatible and uh

similar to what the communists are

saying right now in regards to this

question of equality

um i think there's also confusion here

too because communists never wanted to

make everyone absolutely equal because

as marx angles and lenin pointed out

people are inherently different some

people have more skills than others some

people are smarter some people are

stronger and people are different in

general so

we don't communists don't have this idea

of making everyone equal we just believe

um

as far as equality is concerned no more

than what was written in

the declaration of independence that

we believe

uh that men and women were created equal

right which is what the founding fathers

of the united states have said and all

that means that insofar as the

government is going to

serve the interests of the people we're

going to have a government buy for and

of the people

it's not going to privilege these

special interests like amazon and

facebook and other monopolies over the

ordinary man this is our government and

we will should be treated accordingly

people like jeff bezos bill gates

uh and other billionaires are not gods

among men they're not somehow more human

than we are they're not somehow more

citizens of this republic than we are so

in that regard we just as far as

equality is concerned believe that

everyone should have

a certain equality before

the government before the law that

allows us to begin with equal

opportunity now we don't we're not

advocating for an equality of outcomes

in life if you look at communist states

like china

you don't find uh

you know an equality of outcomes between

people and yet countries like china have

done a very good job in being able to

crack down on monopolies like the ones

you're seeing with amazon and and and

the billionaire class

china is actually an example of a

country with a government that isn't

able to be infiltrated by the special

interests the corporations and and with

their special private agendas that are

beyond the interests of the people so i

think we should be clear that communists

don't want to completely level society

and make it equal we just want

people to be able to have a fighting

chance and that means people don't own

land they don't own homes we want people

to have to be able to own things because

if people are able to own things in

general they're going to have a solid

foundation

from which to begin and

begin as equals

uh

are you an atheist

um my personal relationship to religion

i would say is complicated but

uh in certain regards i think i am an

atheist just in the sense that i don't

like making assumptions about what god

is and what god wants and who god is but

at the same time i'm also someone who's

motivated by a profound sense of faith

and um faith in something that i

struggle to call anything but god or a

god but again because religion has been

misused so often in history i i want to

be very careful about

uh my own relationship to faith

personally

um where are you from i'm just curious

if you don't mind

oh yeah my parents are from lebanon

okay

um this is a quote from

mark's the communist manifesto by marx

and

angles communism abolishes eternal

truths it abolishes all religion and all

morality instead of constituting them on

a new basis it therefore acts

in contradiction to all past historical

experience

at root is it not atheistic

um i i wouldn't say so because uh i

think what marx and engels were trying

to say

in that regard is that communism doesn't

mean to replace all these things with a

new religion and a new dogma and a kind

of a new tradition and i think that's

very

important to you know keep in mind

because

it's very easy to just assume that

because you're having this new political

movement and phenomena that it's gonna

somehow make a new religion and make a

new thing like that

and also i think there's often times a

mistranslation as far as the word

abolish is concerned in a lot of these

texts so

oftentimes the word of hibong which

actually means sublate which means to

preserve while at the same time going

beyond is translated into abolish and

abolish means like to wipe out right and

oftentimes marx and angles write about

the sublation of things

uh

which is not necessarily incompatible

with their preservation in a new form

right so

the way i look at that and the way i

would interpret that is that communists

don't want to abolish christianity they

just want to give a new ex ground for

the expression of the authentic

christian faith

without the corrupt religious

institutions and establishments which

deceive the people and trick people in

the name of tapping into their real

authentic faith

who are just motivated by cynical

interests of serving those in power or

serving special interests or just

plainly trying to scam people into

making money

i've seen reports that that china for

example as recently as last year

they were clamping down i think on

christians as well as some other

religions like falun gong or something

like that

and saying we need marxism not

religion not christianity

and i've just noticed that

uh for example armenians i've had some

armenian friends and they

lived in a former communist country

and

because of that there is a lot of

corruption and a lot of cheating and

low trust society making

business practices

with um

with many armenians because of that

culture that

basically where life is not done life

was once done in america with a

handshake you did not have to

worry about a man that you shook hands

with

pulling a fast one on you

whereas that's not the case in many of

these communist countries because

it seems to it seems to be that

communism

does not understand

or ex or else it purposely exploits the

weakness and corruption

and laziness of human nature

because

it has it has you

where you are

you get something that you didn't earn

and you don't um

you don't appreciate it you don't

properly take ownership of it

um in in regards to the situation of

religion within china um

christians are not being cracked down on

china for their religious faith now

there are various cults among them the

falun gong which which is a cult it's

not really a

historical or traditional religion

the chinese government will crack down

on those but not simply because of in

the name of uploading marxism versus

religion now chinese society you have to

keep in mind has historically not had a

the same relationship to religion that

other societies do the chinese society

has

um been mostly secular throughout its

thousands of years of history just in

the sense that

its way of relating to spirituality and

religion all those kinds of things are

done through the concrete bonds of civil

society and statehood so that's not

really an innovation of communism it's

just been true for china's history

at large but otherwise christians are

free to practice their faith openly and

freely within china and um events like

the taiping rebellion in the 19th

century within china which was a

christian religious uprising against the

qing dynasty was obviously very

influential uh

in

you know influencing the communist the

eventual communist movement that would

come later so

i think there is an interesting

relationship to christianity there but

again china is not a christian country

now in regards to this cynicism that

prevails within armenia you have to keep

in mind that after the collapse of

communism when the very same forces that

conservatives within america are trying

to struggle against

um

basically engaged in the wholesale

privatization of the former soviet

countries and you know pretty much

eluded them and destroyed their

traditions and was trying to destroy

their culture and set up all these ngos

and and things like that to promote the

to promote a society that was more in

line and more within the interests of

the american deep state

obviously the situation in the

post-communist states has been

catastrophic but this wasn't the fault

of communist

it actually was the fault of the same

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global billionaires and the global

capitalist class who are funding ngos

people like george soros people like uh

you know the ford foundation and and the

rockefellers and all this kind of people

who have this very they don't only have

an agenda for the people of the united

states and for this country which i

think to many americans has been

revealed they had an agenda to

completely overthrow the communist

states and replace them with liberal

democracies and that has been an

absolute disaster for traditions and and

for culture and for religion so much so

that in countries like russia you find

the communist party to be

fundamentally uh orthodox christian at

its core it's allied with the orthodox

church because both recognize

the

forces of anti-communism to be a menace

to religion within their country

so

um to me regarding the promotion of

laziness and selfishness i think you

have to keep in mind that in the 20th

century you had this kind of economic

equality within communist states

primarily because they were coming from

a backwards agrarian society and

transitioning into an industrial society

so the goal was just to give people the

minimum of just some kind of

modernization now when that came into a

crisis communist states responded to

that in different ways but the most

successful way a communist state has

responded to the issue is the the path

china took and obviously no one can

really make the argument that in china

these vices of you know a lack of

economic entrepreneurship and innovation

and

um uh you know

uh things like that

is is uh being promoted china is a very

industrious hardworking innovative

competitive

uh society and then this is no lying and

cheating

sorry and lying and cheating i don't

know if that's well i i i'm not sure i

think that's

a culture of lying and cheating is

common to all you know market societies

or societies that are part of the global

capitalist world economy right so

that's not something that's the fault of

communism i think that's more something

that's the fault of the kind of

dog-eat-dog world that we live in but

china has seen profound cultural shifts

and specifically with the president's

the presidency of xi jinping we're

seeing a more of a promotion of morality

instead of the kind of uh nice

un unfettered economic growth for the

sake of economic growth there's more of

a promotion of moral values and kind of

cracking down on this kind of cynical

dog-eat-dog

uh society

the uh just a side note you mentioned

china

so and you said

we you talk about we communists

and you distance yourself from soros and

all the ford foundation who i i think of

them as communists

you mentioned

xi jinping i guess that is that the only

communist

is a public figure that we would not

recognize that you would consider a

communist

no there are several uh within latin

america there's people like pedro

castillo there's the leader of the

russian communist party uh zayuganov

there's other communists throughout

eastern europe

uh

leaders of communist parties and you

obviously have communist states like

vietnam

laos cuba and then also venezuela under

the

presidency of both hugo chavez and

nicholas maduro so there's many

people i would consider socialist or

communist

anybody in america

um it's a tricky question within america

because i think that

there has been a big confusion because

of the history of the cold war and the

left-right division

leftists within america and liberals

have adopted the communist identity not

because they have any connection to

communism globally but because they just

want to kind of spite the right wing

similar to how people adopt the identity

of satanism despite

christians but within the united states

we have

figures socialist or left-wing figures

that i would consider to be more aligned

with the global communist movement like

people like jimmy dore people like jesse

ventura figurehead figures like uh caleb

maupin who is himself a devout christian

while at the same time being a socialist

and a communist you have people like you

know michael perenti and this is a new

and growing movement which i think in

the future

is going to be much

much larger than it is now but for now

unfortunately the american left is

dominated

by forces subservient to the billionaire

class and to what we would consider the

forces of

american capitalism you know

i think of communism as exploiting

the natural fissures between society

i've heard that they for example race in

america

they divide the races they divide

again worker from

worker from boss or whatever

so-called rich from so-called poor

when men from women just

the lgbtiq madness

um i don't see you guy and i mentioned

this at the beginning i don't see you

and the infrared people as being so

viciously anti-white

so

anti-explicitly anti-christian anyway

um

how are you going to get

how are you going to get

your

how are you going to get communists to

become reasonable

well

i think you just have to look at the

name so communism it comes from this

common root of common right it's about

finding what is in common and that's why

for me

as americans

if we're going to be communists we're

going to promote communism we're going

to try and promote what is in common

between the people we don't want to

divide people or accelerate or promote

these current frivolous cultural

divisions that are being promoted by the

media to distract people from their real

enemies we want the american people to

come together to be reconciled with one

another so as they can focus their

attention on their real enemy which is

the current american establishment the

current billionaire class the current

oligarchy and the current monopolies

especially in our particular

the big tech monopolies whose power is

so unprecedented that if allowed to

continue they may very well lead to the

destruction

of our republic and of any semblance of

democracy these unaccountable big tech

companies which are seemingly above the

law and don't have to answer to anyone

and who aren't even being regulated in

in any capacity so we want people to

come together we don't want to keep

dividing people along these identities

now at the same time

we can recognize that there are racial

tensions in this country um

there is a historical and ongoing uh and

i in my view injustice committed against

america's black people because uh

they have been denied the post-civil war

uh rights of 40 acres and a mule right

and that's not you know some kind of

total economic equalization it's just

the minimum of having a solid foundation

with which to build their own community

that i think that's the last thing they

need

sorry to interrupt i think that's the

last thing they need and sorry to

interrupt but yeah they've been they've

been given and given and given it's been

debilitating i i don't think they have i

don't i'm not speaking so much of a

handout to make them dependent on the us

government which i think the democrats

have played a part in trying to

in order to secure them as an electorate

what i'm speaking at is some kind of

fundamental just ability to own

something

from which they can build economically

right and that's not that doesn't take

the form of just you know being

dependent on the government or being

dependent on welfare actually if you

look at the history of the united states

this ability for americans to go and get

their own land was the foundation of

american prosperity and economic

prosperity

you had the um i forget the specific

name of the act in the 1800s which

allowed americans who were westward to

be able to just pretty much

the homestead act yeah

these things were integral and for the

prosperity and economic flourishment of

the united states people were able to

have their own land and from there they

could proceed and build something and

then later on you had the populists and

the farmers alliance who are struggling

to have some kind of

land reform and break up the monopolies

and you know have uh the government

be able to regulate electricity and uh

things like this so that

monopolists couldn't use it to to hurt

the little guy and um

suffocate his chance in my view the

the commie capitalism has made that

harder

for people to afford things i think

blacks

just as much as anybody have the ability

to

to gain wealth in this country but that

ability definitely is limited because of

the subsidization

of subsidizing so-called education and

the corruption of education

has made people

and the subsidizing of housing and the

minimum wage those of all

those along with what you just said

have made things harder for normal

people to get along

and they have two they have men and

women working

which has only made people

able to afford more but then they just

raise the prices and so so men and women

feel like they don't really have to but

they feel like they almost have to work

both of them and then they're separated

from their children it's a

it's a such a corrupting influence has

it has it not been just one quick

question i know i'm adding things on top

has it not been the case that communists

exploited the divisions

and balkanization and all that stuff

uh in order to create a crisis and take

power

um no so i think i'll just answer in

order just two things

the first thing is that i do agree that

there are current monopoly impediments

to the general americans ability to

flourish economically but i don't i

don't know if i agree that those things

are necessarily the minimum wage and the

subsidization of housing and education

although those being enamored and all

the bureaucratic red tape and corruption

that they are definitely do need to be

improved and made more efficient i i

agree but

in general i think the number one

obstacle is actually the big monopolies

whether in the form of um

you know in housing you have financial

institutions like blackrock that are

buying up america's homes

um and madison what you call

commie capitalism i think i would call

it and this is something that people

have referred to it in america is a kind

of socialism for the rich i mean the the

mainstream media tells us we live in a

free market capitalist society but

clearly you have all these special

grants and favors the government does

for the one percent and for the

monopolies right it gives them subsidies

it gives corporations tax breaks and

subsidies the average american doesn't

have

access to there's tax loopholes that

allow special interests to be able to

gain the system and and basically rig

the system

so i do agree we do have a kind of

socialism for the rich uh all i'm

advocating for as a communist is that we

have a socialism for the people um

instead and to me

now the second thing about um

the the is highlighting the difference

communists haven't tried to create

crisis uh in order to cease power

they were rather the ones that seized

power as a result of crisis that no one

else was able to

overcome for example in china you had

the um invasion by the [ __ ]

the japanese

and communists had a very important part

in the war of liberation and leading the

chinese people against

uh the japanese imperialists and the

communists were the most effective in

being able to rally the chinese people

and unify actually the chinese people

rather than divide them

uh to create the people's republic it's

not really the communists that we're

dividing people it was their enemies

that were promoting um various divisions

between them

in order for the ruling class of the

time to be able to maintain its grip on

power

so again i think the primary goal of

communists is to unify people but when

we unify people you're gonna see the

establishment um

the mainstream media the special

interests uh the institutions the ngos

the think tanks all these kinds of uh

universities they're all going to rally

together and try to stop it so conflict

will inevitably be generated

because it's what we want what do you

think of trump and tucker

well here's what i'll say about trump um

i'm obviously not the biggest fan of

trump

i think that he made many mistakes and i

think the primary mistake that trump

ended up making

was that

he had he was completely beholden to the

republican establishment

and i don't think trump really had any

independent direction i mean the media

was labeling him as a fascist and a nazi

i don't necessarily agree with that

i don't know what trump's personal

ambitions or goals or loyalties were but

i can't appreciate the fact that he did

kick-start a movement

of americans who were fed up with the

system and who were fed up with the

establishment

and he gave them a sense of hope now do

i think trump

do i believe trump himself personally is

going to be able to make do

on the expectations he's given to his

movement i don't necessarily think so

and that's why as communists we don't

necessarily want to go against

the trump movement and trump people we

rather want to um show them that there's

a more effective way to fight this

establishment

um

than trump can i mean

trump for example um was so i agree he

was very much treated unfairly by the

media he was very much

you know lied about and so on and so on

but at the same time

um i think as communists we want to

propose a more effective and better way

of combating the same forces that were

demonizing trump better than trump

himself could right and also part of

that means um making more alliances

right we want to reach out and make

alliances with leaders of the black

community fed up with these thousands

because believe it or not

the black community is not you know uh

as loyal to the democrats as the

mainstream media is trying to say

there's many black people who are fed up

with the democratic establishment many

latinos are fed up with it right so i

think we want to reach out and make even

more broad alliances with these groups

um

maybe in ways that the current trump

movement hasn't uh been too successful

in doing i've noticed that the um

the communists people who i call

communists the people that

who commonly think of the antifa black

lives matter

and i have a broader definition than

than maybe others

uh they exploit the anger of the

so-called minorities

it seems like with this with this uh

version of communism that you have

you want to exploit the anger of

everybody you want to not exclude the

whites

and it seems ripe for that because

whites are getting

angry as well at what's going on they've

been

demoralized lack of morals

and they see the injustice against

explicitly in many cases against them

and men too

so

i don't know you might you might be

successful in this

yeah i think um the first thing i want

to say is that you know to me

the

so-called antifa at least within the

united states they're very clearly foot

soldiers of the democratic establishment

now black lives matter as an official

organization received funding from

george soros we all know that um

and obviously it's very mis it's very

ambiguous and mysterious to say the

least about what interest exactly

they're serving but

all i could pretty much say is that

there are legitimate grievances within

the black community but i think those

grievances are being turned against the

democrats uh

themselves and as for antifa i think the

the

so-called antifa phenomena they're

calling themselves communism they're

waving communist flags but this isn't

because they're actually communists it's

because they're trying to instill fear

in conservatives they're trying to

provoke fear

in the people that the so-called

deplorables that are against the

democratic establishment and because

most americans and this is a result of

the cold war

have fearful attitudes toward communism

um these people are trying to exploit

that fear and and make themselves into a

boogeyman right

now as far as the anger and grievances

that white people or men are

experiencing

i don't necessarily think this is

because

uh

white people or

or men are necessarily oppressed but i

think that

um

many working class people happen to be

white happen to be men many ordinary

regular people and one of the ways that

the establishment is trying to sow

division between people is by you know

um

trying to you know target or you know

sow racial divisions and and make people

feel bad or guilty because they're white

and and promote all this [ __ ] about

how we have to tear down the statues of

founding fathers and all this kind of

stuff so i do agree that there's

legitimate anger there but i don't think

that we should sow more of the division

and more of this tension i think we

should recognize it as an attempt by

those in power to divide people right

and what communists want to do is we

want to bring people together

um

because we think that they're being

distracted with this infighting from

their real enemy and that real enemy is

the american establishment and the

monopolies i don't know i

that is there is some truth to that but

um

the enemy is within it's a good versus

evil and

like

anything anybody with anger is gonna be

going to end up working against their

own interests i don't think that

the black the black community really has

legitimate grievances

at least none of that they are cl none

that they're uh crying about none that

we hear crying about in the mainstream

at least

well the the the black people that are

being given representation in the

mainstream don't necessarily represent

um the grievances of the black community

i do think the black community has many

legitimate grievances

yeah sure um they don't have enough

self-determination and independence

they're ruled by police departments

that aren't really connected to the

community much in the same way that

rural people in the united states

have been you know

since the 90s and the 2000s especially

ruled by these federal agencies that are

completely disconnected with them right

so are you aware of the amount of crime

that's happening in in these communities

and there are black people

right but i'm not denying that there's a

reality of crime i just think it's a

vicious cycle in which the economic

conditions that are promoting crime uh

namely from this wholesale robbery and

scamming of america's uh

black population by the democrats

specifically

leads to the end you know the attempt by

the democrats that seems at least clear

to me

to target families right and make

families harder to start this creates a

vicious cycle which then leads also to a

vicious very vicious form of

police repression now i do agree that

much of the so-called black lives matter

protest we're not coming from black

people but we're coming from uh

actually primarily white leftists who

are serving the interests of the

democrats i think it's because

the democrats have tried to twist the

legitimate grievances of america's

various minorities and turn them into a

way that will serve their own interests

even though the democrats are the ones

who have betrayed and robbed

these same people for decades now our

solution to that isn't to focus on the

anger and and you know

aggravate grievances but find a way that

we can come together

in order to address our common problems

we don't really want necessarily people

to be angry we just want people to feel

powerful enough to feel brave enough and

to feel bold enough to stand up what's

for what's right

and to fight for their own republic

right to fight for republic by for and

of the people because this establishment

these corporations uh and our deep state

is nowhere to be found in our

constitution it's an overgrowth right on

our republic that was not intended by

our founding fathers and uh

is threatening to devour uh our republic

itself now i want to make a prediction

i'm looking at the media and i'm looking

how they're promoting people like meghan

markle

and it seems to me they're trying to

prepare her for some kind of uh

political existence or presence and i

find it a nightmare that

it's a possibility that our elites are

planning on dismantling our republic and

basically ins installing

uh the british crown to rule us right so

i think this is something we really have

to keep in mind and it's something as a

communist i want to get the word out on

you mentioned fighting for what's right

how

are communists to fight for what's right

if they have no

god no morals

no absolute standard

they just do

by any means necessary is that not a

communistic

line is that just in america religion by

any means necessary yeah well

religious faith is not dogma if if we

had an absolute standard

it wouldn't be faith we wouldn't need to

have faith we would be able to have a

guarantee the reason we have faith is

we're putting our trust

in something we don't necessarily know

right and i don't think communists uh

i don't think i don't believe the

majority of communists are without a god

um even as an atheist for most of my

adult life i have come to

see the value and importance of the

feeling of god at the very least right

um the presence of god right so i don't

necessarily it's not that communists are

against god it's just that we're

reluctant to focus too much on it

because it can very easily be twisted to

serve the opposite now the very

religious the great religions of the

world warn about this they warn about

how people

um do things in the name of god say

things in the name of god

while in reality serving satan right

it's the you yourself pointed out

earlier that um

i forgot exactly what he said but evil

does disguise itself in the form of good

and as beautiful as i consider the great

religions of the world it's precisely

because of how

good true and beautiful that they are

that evil forces have used them for

completely opposite purposes right so

that explains really historically the

reluctance of communists to really

get really deep into the religion but we

saw in the soviet union how for example

when the germans invaded their country

they rediscovered the russian orthodox

faith this pure sense of faith divorced

from the institutional corruption of the

church

um which i think was a more authentic

and uh real form of faith

than the one that existed before

communism right

so

we have to keep bear in mind communism

is not incompatible with religion i

think you can even go so far as to say

that communists merely want

to do good in the world we don't want to

make heaven on earth

but we want to be good people in this

world we don't only want to focus on the

afterlife in heaven because this world

does matter what we do in this world uh

matters if we didn't believe that then

how could we

how could we condemn and recognize the

evil of what our elites are doing we

clearly see that this is evil because we

know that what happens in this world

matters

i think that i think that everybody sees

evil

but they're not good at diagnosing it

nor are they good at

coming up with the right solutions for

it they end up creating more evil it's

like a it's like an imitation of logic

because karl marx himself said

it

his marxism cannot be conceived

without atheism

and i think it's more i think it's more

than you're letting on it's more here's

why there's there's the reason there's

confusion around this is because

historically religion had taken the form

of philosophy in marx's time right marx

wasn't thinking about religion beyond

philosophy and in the philosophical

sense marx was an atheist he did

wholeheartedly

reject religion but that's because in my

view the meaning of religion became

perverted by philosophy and what was

once an authentic and material form of

faith right just based in feeling and

intuition and true faith and conviction

turned into dogma and it turned into

this kind of absolute guarantee that's

that i view is inherently corrupt but i

don't i don't think that

that you can reduce people's religious

feelings to that i think people's

religious feelings is authentic marx

also agreed it was authentic marx called

religion the heart of a heartless world

he said religion was the only way people

were able to give expression to their

authentic humanity right

now

whether or not you believe that in

building a more human world

religion is going to disappear we can

all agree that there is something

fundamentally good about religion

um marx himself was making a point that

the problem is not religion

the problem is

our current world and the evils that we

associate with religion

are a reflection of the evils of our

world right so it's it's it's kind of

more of a philosophical issue that

shouldn't be taken as face value because

his historical experience shows and this

is especially true in 2021 that in no

way is um

religion incompatible with communism

have you noticed that

males who are communists have a

like a female version of logic where

it's always excuse after excuse

it's not responsibility like the best

the solution for the black community is

responsibility it's not

oh they have these grievances the police

the police are not the black community's

problem at all well

here's where you notice that they have

like a female mindset exchange yeah i

would just i would just say two things

you know first thing i want to say is i

do consider it an important feature of

manhood that we recognize we're not

going to insert ourselves in other

people's business right so i think black

people themselves are best equipped in

being able to diagnose their own

problems and what those are now i agree

that the white left is trying to speak

on behalf of them and you know make

excuses or whatever i agree they they're

trying to speak for black people right

but regarding this kind of i guess

you're calling it female logic yeah um i

think uh you don't really you don't

really find communist men in this

country in the united states all that

much but that's also because and this is

historically true and this is actually

true in the ex-communist states

the ruling

elites and this is especially true for

this more overly socialized and more

urban people right the students and

people don't really work with their

hands they tend to be

more um

less manly to say the least

and interestingly in eastern european

countries those are those people are

actually the right wingers and it's the

communists who are more conservative and

down to earth and so on and so on uh i

think this issue as far as manhood is

concerned

um it is yeah it's really i guess as a

communist it is embarrassing to see the

type of communists that claim to

represent

what this tradition is but that's why

i'm trying to set a different example

and several others are trying to set a

different example so that communism

won't be associated with that

anymore

i do agree that

the

so-called self-proclaimed

uh leftists and communists in america in

the main the majority of them especially

the ones coming out of these

universities

and academia they are fundamentally

morally spiritually um however you want

to put it bankrupt people um they have

no sense of honor they have no sense of

dignity they have very slimy you know

tactics i myself know this firsthand

because i've been victim of them right i

know how

dishonest um

and inhuman and dishonorable these

people truly are right i know that

firsthand

but at the same time the way i see that

is it's the same reason why you see

religions being corrupted because to me

evil takes the form of good it disguises

itself as good but i do fundamentally

believe that at its core communism is

good i just think evil people in this

country specifically have been

corrupting it

for completely and wildly different ends

that's human nature what religion were

you before you became atheist

i came from a shia muslim background

okay

uh last quick question i know that i

think we're running out of time

um

the

hong kong protests

is

my impression is it was communist

students

fighting against the communist

establishment government

what's your take

uh the issue with hong kong is is very

complex but needless to say

as we've noticed in the united states

and throughout the world you have uh

vested interests trying to promote these

color revolutions and these fake

revolutions have proven all this social

unrest and it's not really uh it's not

an organic like spontaneous thing just

like how we saw in the united states

with george soros funding

unrest and protests here these same

people were funding the unrest and

protests in hong kong now a lot of that

grievances of people in hong kong came

from the fact that there's no housing in

hong kong right there's no land for

people it's people can't find affordable

housing in it life is getting harder and

harder in hong kong that's also because

the communist government doesn't enforce

its economic policies in hong kong which

are very pro-people policies so it lets

hong kong have its own system and this

led to a lot of

grievances that because it was exploited

by global uh forces

was blamed on uh

the communist party right in hong kong

so i think we have to look at hong kong

also look at the protests in russia with

navalny look at the protests in belarus

look at the protests in latin america we

should all look at these in the same

lens with which we look at

with the same level of suspicion a lot

of the unrest that happens in this

country

interesting

that's about that's about all i have for

you

for this

ready to become a communist james

no

his answers for me

are has his answers for me are

they muddy the water they do

explain that

a lot of this stuff is just evil human

nature

but i think that

a lot of it is

um

you can't

one cannot tell what actually happened

in history

look at look at how the media lies about

the present day so we don't know

who did what and what the motive was

they lie about charlottesville they lie

about the capital mostly peaceful

capital protests on january 6. they lie

about the black lives matter movement

they even seem to have haas

fooled on the black community's

uh grievances

so it's

to me i think it's a

who knows who cares type of thing as far

as the history goes

i like to know present-day reality have

responsibility

and not throw out

god with the bathwater

juicy any last thoughts infrared

um i think it was an overall productive

good conversation um

you know i guess i would say with

regards to the black community i think

this is our main point of contention i

would just recommend reaching out and

listening to many black leaders right

because these are not people who are

co-opted by the democrats they're

against the democrats and uh i do think

they they they authentically um you know

are leaders of their own community they

have

their own specific views and they're

completely demonized by the mainstream

media as well and it's something that

they have in common with american

conservatives

so i just

think that that's important for unity

but

you know i do overall agree that the

media sews unnecessary division but at

the same time that doesn't mean we

shouldn't be trying to make an effort to

bridge those divisions because there are

in my view at least based in very real

realities

i like to

yeah do you have any

who would be a black leader that

that you think of as a leader

well historically you have organizations

like uh the nation of islam right oh man

yeah i mean you have uh

you know you have other you have the

traditional marcus garvey historically

and its successors

you have malcolm x historically who

famously called the democrats the wolves

and sheep's clothing so it's a very rich

tradition and there are living people

who um

i talk with blacks practically every day

on my on my radio show

some of them have sense some of them

agree with me many of them agree with me

many don't many have that anger

they've taken on false identities they

think they're black hebrew israelites or

they have embraced the

islam stuff the nation of islam what do

your parents think when you left the

shia muslim thing

um

i i think they were okay with it um

primarily because

you know i did have issues with religion

uh growing up but i've come to a

perspective where i have great respect

and reverence for all of the world's

major religions and also i have a new i

acquired actually as a communist a

newfound appreciation for christianity

and in particular right because of how

closely entwined communism historically

has been with christianity

so to me um i find beauty and truth in

all of the world's great uh religions i

think it's important that

we not

get caught up in the identities where

you can't just tell

where you can't just tell people the

truth

on

for for example for the hake report i

call on my show i call

i call blacks out i call women out i

call

uh the black hebrew israelites out and

they can call in and uh disagree with me

i call both the rhinos and the democrats

out

the mainstream media

but i think that we should be have the

freedom the freedom of speech to just

say our impression especially whites and

men

because they're and christians

they're some of the most

docile and submissive lately and fearful

and intimidated falsely intimidated

because you know look at what is

happening with kyle rittenhouse he's

charged with murder

over a clear case of self-defense people

don't have justice

and we have lost a sense of justice and

freedom here i i definitely agree that

i do believe that americans freedom of

speech has been curtailed specifically

and especially by the big tech companies

and regardless of who i agree or

disagree with i do think people should

be allowed to give authentic expression

to what they really do believe and um

what they really do feel because

regardless of whether i agree with it or

not um it's a first step in being able

to come to an uh a point of unity and

mutual understanding

and as i i think a good example of this

was recently and let's not get into the

details of it because you know i'm on

twitch so yeah i'm not sure what but

recently with dave chappelle's netflix

special right and he was trying to just

give authentic

you know expressions what he believed

and he was uh he was he was cancelled

for it he now he's having trouble

finding uh

ways to get his his movie published and

stuff so it's like

his stuff published i mean so you know

it's it's it's really a shame that we've

just created this culture of lying and

people not even being honest because

they're too scared to speak what's on

their mind you know one quick

other point you mentioned black leaders

i think that

one of the problems with

men

is that we have people that we put put

up as leaders we should not be doing

that we should be our own leader

and then we unite together and work

together and

somebody if somebody's gonna be a

president like a trump

then

that's fine but he is not he is not put

up on a pedestal where

he is

influencing our thought any more than

any other man

would be you and you can hear the truth

from any man even even your enemy

i i agree with that i do agree that we

should we shouldn't get caught up in as

men you know especially as men and i

can't speak for women because i'm not a

woman right so i can just speak for men

because that's what i am

um so i'm not assuming that they they're

different or something but

i'm just you know i agree that we we

shouldn't be relying and putting our

putting all of our trust in just other

men right part of being a man is being

your own man having your own thoughts

and being able to think for yourself so

i completely agree with that you know

um i think that's been the pro part of

the problem with

the black community is they've had these

people that they've propped up as

leaders

and they've made them into heroes and

you see it you see me

human nature to do that

especially nowadays because here's the

thing is that i think

ultimately i believe that black people

themselves know what's best

and know how to best diagnose their own

problems right i think that they need

our help we're all human beings and we

all have the freedom of speech and they

can

they can hear the truth from other races

they need to learn to do that especially

whites

they close their minds to whites and

it's not good for them well i don't know

if that's necessarily true because they

just have different experiences you know

they have a different situation they

have different uh circumstances right

and oftentimes it's hard for white

people to relate to that because

they don't share those same experiences

and same circumstance but they're but

they're all nose up against this

imaginary problem that that's called

racism whereas whites don't have that

blind spot and sometimes it takes

somebody from the outside looking in

to see through the the madness and

occasionally someone will wake up well

listen that that also manifests in the

form

of white people not experiencing this

this racism right so if they haven't

experienced it

it doesn't exist

well

that's i think where we would

definitely have to disagree i think

racism is a real thing if racism is real

then blacks are the primary offenders

i i don't agree but

one thing i can say is that to me as far

as i'm concerned

um the democrats

uh

are a very racist party and

are a big source of what i would

consider real white supremacy i don't

think that rule ordinary americans

are the main culprits of white supremacy

i think it's actually the democrats and

the liberals

who are the most uh effective sources of

racism do you think white supremacy is

is happening in america

obviously yeah

i don't know

i don't know which

i just think ordinary americans and

rural americans who are white actually

have more in common with black people in

terms of you know being down to earth

people instead of being these stiff

you know liberals who do epitomize what

we would consider white supremacy that's

why trump was such a uniting force for

people with any decency

well in many ways you could say that

liberals were even more far more white

supremacists than trump because

um he was more relatable and more down

to earth whereas they are more obsessed

with purity and political correctness

and many have pointed out that this is a

feature of white supremacy but

regardless

um

yeah are your parents more conservative

or or liberal

they're they're really not uh

non-political yeah

you got it we'll jump into the q a this

has been an enjoyable one to say the

least so we're going to jump into these

questions want to remind you of a couple

of things one if you have a question

feel free to fire it into the old live

chat we'll go for about 30 minutes and

also our guests are linked in the

description

so if you want to hear more of james

hake or infrared you can and that

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because we put all of our guest links in

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episode as well and so you can find

their links there as well so jumping

right into it with this first one from

lin yen chin says debate is useless

noise that never resolves anything it

just

it's just prattling for amusement men

don't do that but beta males do

god bless you lord good hair

thank you i appreciate that linda and

shin

next up shaggy boy says let's go

and anna rodriguez says i love you hake

nice i love you too

ozzie and says you convinced me

havoc

is havoc like a some sort of slang word

is that are they trying to make fun of

you hake they say i'm an atheist so i

must be communist sarcasm then they say

thanks for convincing me that i am not

on your

team

well

all atheism

is not communists but all communism is

atheist

juicy this one coming in from chris

morlock says there are almost as many

people in china that identify as

religious as there are in the us about

120 million why is this james

well there may be i mean there's there's

so many there's so many uh people in

china for one

but

you know under under hard life i don't

know

if they are real christians it's hard to

know it's hard to know how many real

christians there are in america so many

as has pointed out so much of

so much of the organized religions

it's just filled with phony people and

so i don't know maybe the tough times

are making a christian movement rise in

china but for sure

there is a

they have to suppress themselves they

don't have the freedom of speech and

i've

i've heard of struggle sessions

in uh communist worlds where they just

they don't really they

try to force people to believe things

that aren't true

and if you don't believe if you don't

believe it you go through what

uh

dave chappelle is going through

or worse really

you got it and this one coming in for

infrared kevin dunn asks why can

communists openly be on all big tech

platforms but

n-a-z-i-s

can't

yeah uh i think the issue is that

there's just not a lot of people who are

informed about communism and the the

mainstream uh political establishment

hasn't had to deal with you know there

has been a very clear neo-nazi uh

phenomenon there's been you know a kind

of right-wing

altar right movement in the united

states there hasn't really been a

communist

movement

in many many decades in this country

that has posed a threat

to the establishment so i think that

pretty much explains the majority of the

reason why

you don't really see a crackdown on it

just because it's it's not really that

it's politically relevant to the us

beyond recently becoming um

a symbol of you know the liberal

democratic

um

extremists right but

beyond then beyond that i think it's all

related to you know

have you

have you caught hate for not

hating white people enough

as a leftist um

i have been accused of being a white

supremacist i've been accused of being

a white chauvinist and this was all

because i insisted on the fact that

communists have to be patriots and that

doesn't mean you agree with everything

your government does or you agree with

your government

it means you have a love of your country

and its people and your people right and

for that reason i have been attacked and

called a white supremacist which is

ironic because

i'm not sure if i am considered white

it's not something i pay a lot of

attention to but my parents are from

lebanon i'm from an arab background so

it's really weird how

people are trying to use race against me

when

wide enough you're white enough to be

hated i guess yeah

this one coming in from chris morlock

for you again hey they say there are 44

million christians in china for

comparison there are

in total about 18 million so far less

chinese people that live in the us

how is the people's republic of china

against christians

it's kind of look it up

this one from chris morlock says america

is against christians by the way just

fyi

but anyway says quote religion is the

sigh of the oppressed creature the heart

of a heartless world and the soul of

soulless conditions unquote karl marx

that's nice

it's uh

tough times

do make you turn to god sometimes and

that's important karl marx although he

was a blind atheist was right about that

i guess

this one coming in from john kramer says

i'm here to support hick of the hake

report says keep speaking the truth

brother also thank you for having this

platform thanks for your encouragement

john and as mentioned take they are here

to support you hake thank you appreciate

that

black lennon says question for jake i

think they mean hake but yeah it might

also be hank they say what do you think

of the labor aristocracy do you deny it

what's your thoughts

i have no idea what that is the labor

aristocracy

by the way it just made me think we need

tea and earl here

red butt red blooded republican trumps

says

how do you explain sorry i cut your name

off there friend i know it probably says

more than that but it says red republic

red-blooded republican trump dot dot dot

how do you explain the current failures

of communism in america being the

american indian reservations

um i i don't know exactly what that's

referring to but i think the failure of

the communist movement within the united

states

um i think is a theoretical issue it's

it's the problem is is the type of

people intellectuals who are attracted

to communism

um

do are attracted to it because they're

anti-social and they you know they i

guess they were the losers in life and

you know they turned to communism for

that reason

but i don't know how this relates to the

reserve reservation system but uh

i think that's how to explain the

failure of

the movement to ever really be able to

kick off here i think he's pointing out

that the american indians they

they get

uh payouts whether it's from

the casino payouts and things like that

and that ends up being debilitating to

them and so they don't end up doing for

themselves and working for themselves

and taking responsibility i've known

some indians who got kicked out of their

indian tribe

and that was honestly the best thing for

them they quit being deadbeats they

started working and got their lives

together and

had families

well i think uh all i would say to that

i'm not really familiar with the

situation of the reservation system but

what i do know about it is an important

part of communism is sovereignty it's

being able to have the necessary level

of control and self-determination over

your community and as far as the

reservation system is concerned it has

been a form of um we all know that the

there has been various treaties violated

and the way in which uh indians or i

don't know if i would say native

americans have been um have been treated

by the us government has been very

unfair

and they have been you know

uh

[Music]

they have not had a good deal as far as

i would put it if you want to put it in

trumpian trumpian terms though i don't

know if it'd be a good example of

communism as much maybe uh internalized

corruption and

yeah you seem to have like

that same

woman's mindset if you will

allow me yeah in that you have like this

feeling sorry for these different

so-called oppressed groups these uh

my minorities if you will

the well well trump trump talked about

how

the

current u.s government wasn't it wasn't

a good deal for the american people the

policies of our government and its

industrial policy that's true american

people were getting ripped off it's not

necessarily you know making excuses or

blaming it's just pointing out

that the native americans

or so on they haven't had a good deal

right they've been you know as far as

their relation to the u.s government is

concerned and that should be

investigated but it's a complex issue

but the one thing i will say is that i

don't think it's an example of communism

and that's something i can be certain of

without knowing uh much else

you got it and this one coming in from

creo debunk says

greek have you heard about kybernetic

economy any objection to that and i

don't even know what can you tell us

what it is

hake if you know what it is i cannot

cybernetic or kybernetic economy they

put it with a k kybernetic

cybernetic

i don't know

if haze knows the answers to these

questions he's welcome but i don't know

i think it means cybernetic but i think

it's a complex issue

yeah

did you know the did you know that other

thing the

labor

he said the that's like a community meme

uh

i was i debated before okay

yeah

you got it and long nights youtubing

long time viewer good to see you says

how do we explain the government putting

drugs in the street creating the war on

drugs snatching the father out of the

home then acting like white people know

how to solve our problems when you've

created them

i think they they said hake at the end

so i think that's for you

so i didn't put the drugs in their

community i didn't take the father out

of their home and honestly

the best thing for them

if the government was involved in that i

know the government did bribe them to

have the father out of the home there's

a bribe and i know that they made

conditions tough or whatever for you

know people in general to make a living

nowadays or buy buy a property

but

the best thing for us

and i think this is addressing the

communist that that

false imitation of logic that false

imitation of manhood is responsibility

if blacks if the black community who

surrendered their fathers

had took responsibility for that

rather than

continue to blame the government which

is evil and and it is against

them and us and everybody

then they would be doing much better and

i think that that's that's why i'm

concerned about whites and white anger

and the appeal of

this version of communism that's not so

anti-white

uh

is appealing to that anger which is the

lie that you have a right to be angry

and to blame when you're better off just

taking responsibility

and then you can then you'll will have

the strength to fight back in the right

way and you'll have the wisdom too

i don't think i think black people are

taking responsibility but they're also

trying to point out that

you know they don't want

people outside their community to try

and force things on them right

so i think that's part of it right it's

part of having your own

self-determination i don't know what you

mean by people outside the community

forcing things on them

well i think they i think um black

people know what's best for themselves

right they know

the best answers to their own

if they did would they be voting 96 98

for democrats

vote voter turnout is very low i know

but would they be doing that if they did

i i can't speak on behalf of them i'm

not myself black and

i don't i wouldn't but you can see we've

got a fresh one coming in this one

coming amazing annihilation prism says

for hake

lenin praised washington's 1776 and

lincoln's anti-slavery crusade in the

civil war as revolutionary in his letter

to the american workers what is your

response to that it's a red flag i think

there's a lot of melodrama about slavery

and this pretense that it they make it

sound worse than it really was i think

there's much worse evil today i think

the democrats today are much more evil

than the than the democrats who own the

slaves

and

the 1776 thing

uh

it's it's nice it's a nice sentiment i i

get that they want to latch on and

support the revolution but i think our

revolution

as far as my impression was more

righteous and based in in god and nature

and nature's god

right whereas the communists are atheist

you got it and that is it for questions

we do want to say folks our guests are

linked in the description we really do

appreciate these guys the debaters are

the lifeblood of the channel so you can

find their links but i think i think i

think come on we can't

most americans understand that slavery

is probably the

biggest historical evil in this country

i think

i mean look we gotta we can't say i mean

you surely you understand slavery is a

great historical evil right

i don't know it there was there were

decent and indecent slave owners

and i i it's not it's not ideal it's not

ideal to have slavery but it's not ideal

what we have today and we have actual

like mass

killings of babies

i think i think on this point that's

just a red line that i don't think

i could ever come to an agreement with

you like

that i think that is way beyond the

realm of

conceivability for just normal even just

normal americans like it's in it like

slavery is the it's evil was so

unprecedented in the history of humanity

that

like these series yes

absolutely and oh man

yeah that is i mean it was a reality of

all of history

no the slavery that existed

in the united states was qualitatively

different than historical slavery

because we treated them it was a modern

form of slavery where slave owners were

able to do whatever they wanted there

was no like you know we made them

christians and in the past slavery

merely referred to um a relation of

power that existed before ambiguously

right in in the islamic world slaves

were able to actually take power right

so it was an ambiguous thing slaves were

castrated

that's that's just coming left field

right it's just left field

to talk about amer to try and downplay

the crimes of american slavery we fought

a civil war to eliminate that evil from

the face of this country you did not uh

millions millions uh died in that war

and you know

i think it's fundamentally

anti-patriotic to try and downplay the

historical evil of slavery

part of that is an attack on the south

the beautiful south is more christian

more down to earth more decent honestly

to the black community than anybody else

in america regardless of the south today

we did fight a civil war to eliminate

slavery and to we did not

historical evil of slavery is a form of

treason in my view against uh the very

basis of this country right well

honestly they were not treasonous when

they fought against the the north they

had legitimate grievances we we can't we

don't have time to get into a debate

about uh the question of the civil war

but i do find it extremely appalling and

inhuman to speak about slavery in this

way you know i think it's i think you

will never you will never be able to

come to a common understanding or a

common point of unity with the various

different peoples in this country if you

try to downplay the historical evils and

injustices i'm telling the reality of it

the black community no i think i don't

even think you adequately represent the

trump's own movement when you say this i

think even trump's movement can admit

the extreme historical evil that is

slavery and to stoop to such a low level

so as to try and

play that and insult

uh the the black people and citizens of

this country i think that is

fundamentally appalling blacks should be

grateful

to be in this country they should be

grateful for that by way of slavery

that's just which i'm serious it's just

a bunch of nonsense

what you're saying is nonsense

you're just keeping them interesting

right now black people fundamentally

played an instrumental part in building

this country you're talking about they

should be great that's complete nonsense

they should be grateful no no should

they not be grateful to be here you're

speaking a bunch of nonsense right now

you're no you're not

this is communism and by saying this

actually by saying this you're serving

the current establishment because you're

trying to sow unneeded unnecessary

racial division no this is reality so

anti-human and inhumane no you're you

people support abortion give me a break

we're not talking about abortion right

now we're talking that's much worse

that's much worse

that you want to see past the divisions

and and get to a point of unity you're

treating blacks like children you should

be ashamed of yourself it's pathetic you

think like you think you think like a

female you're treating the blacks

you're speaking about thinking like a

female like a woman i i can't i can't

think of anything more [ __ ] cowardly

than trying to downplay the historical

evil of slavery

it's either that you're ignorant and you

don't understand now that's just

melodrama being deliberately malicious

no you just you have to use you have to

use the misery you have to use the anger

you have to use that false anger about

something long past in order to keep in

order to prop up your communism you are

saying unspeakably evil things if

someone was if someone was advocating in

favor of pedophilia i'd be angry it's

long over what if someone what if

someone was defending pedophilia

wouldn't people do it a little bit angry

they do it all the time they do it all

the time okay but human beings of course

human beings should be angry when people

say unspeakably evil no you you fight

each other you fight evil you don't

believe that is fundamentally an evil

thing you're saying no it's not

yes it is yes it is slavery was one of

the greatest historical evils however

humanity how so

because it was the modern form of

slavery um

complete it's literally in the name

people were reduced to objects they

didn't even have the minimal status of

being recognized as human beings i

understand it's not ideal and the

devastation that this has caused to the

black community and the scars of this

evil to this very day not true um that's

a lie it's a lie absolutely the only

scars

the only scars

what event in history could be more

catastrophic for building the foundation

of a family than something like slavery

slavery they had their families more

than today

and they had their families after

slavery morning today

since right now the no it's real

an infamous cruelty of this no you're

ignorant right here listen we fought a

civil war you did not

you did not stop saying we

we did i am an american i know but

you're contributing but you're just as

much of an american as you are and now

you're an anti-american so yes you're

feeling sorry for the blacks we did

fight that

you're feeling sorry for people long

dead they're i am not feeling sorry

fulfilling my patriotic duty

honoring the tradition and history of

this country to fight and eliminate from

the face of the earth the widely

recognized historical evil of this

country that is all i'm doing you didn't

even explain how it's evil

i didn't explain how it's evil that we

say all men and women all men are born

equal and yet some people live in chains

and are reduced they're attempted to

reduce to the status of cattle and

animals i think it's self-evident the

way we made them christians

we uh

they were there's nothing nothing

christian about the institution of

slavery it's a mimicry it's not a pagan

form it's irrelevant pagan form of roman

slavery the confederates were among the

leaders of the confederates were among

the debauched depraved and decadent

elites in history somebody has nothing

to do with christianity they were more

honorable than you are favoritely there

you had the elements of uh paganism and

complete uh

anti-christianity among this has nothing

to do with christianity whatsoever the

most fervent christian christians at the

time were fighting to free their fellow

man from the bondage of slavery john

brown was fundamentally religious a

terrorist

he was he was he was an angry terrorist

john brown was an angry terrorist and a

murderer is the slavery in africa you

call john brown a terrorist and a

murderer and meanwhile the union army

was singing his this is communism by any

means necessary just anger and lies

listen and murder listen human beings

have the right to be angry about funding

no they do not unjust things not true

yeah

no they don't have that the right to be

angry were the blacks the blacks

enslaved in

africa is that evil they they absolutely

do and you are playing into the tropes

of the media that all conservatives are

racist which i do not fundamentally

believe because you think i'm racist

i think it is fundamentally racist to

try and downplay the historical evil of

slavery and you are particularly

insulting the black community no to such

an extent that no possible inroads or

alliance or reaching out is possible

between uh

blacks calling into my show every day

agreeing with me they're not as

soft-hearted as you think you were to

say that slavery was not that bad i do

not think uh you would have people

believe uh why do you why do you need it

to be so bad

it's not that i need it to be bad it is

a matter of historical record that it

was a fundamental evil it's inscribed

into the very basis of our country as

from the civil war the civil war wasn't

in order to nothing in order to ignore

the present day evils that we have going

on right now it's since listen you look

at the spiritual you sound more like a

democrat right now

than anything else for you to apologize

for slavery i'm not a democrats oh you

mean defending it at the time

is just fundamentally appalling and

revolting are democrats not worse today

than than during slavery therefore

killing them

listen there is no need to uh

lie about the historical ref record and

change things to such an extent in this

way if anything if

are you are you kidding me have you seen

the people

making a melodrama about slavery every

slavery movie the 1619 project just

outright lies yeah in the way

the way you combat the lies of the 1619

project is not to deny the historical

evil of slavery but to recognize that it

was the intention of the founding

fathers from the outset to eliminate

this evil and the civil war was the

manifestation of this inevitable

historical mission a historical mission

i would call a holy mission even i think

that it's just that just as you can't

recognize good you can't properly

recognize evil

so i think we are not going to be i

think you're getting emotional we are

not we are not going to be able to agree

upon this no i know i understand that

what so but your your argument is

emotional

well it's not it's not simply and

communism is slavery listen you you have

said something fundamentally appalling

and anti-human that's all i could no no

it's not anti abortion is anti-human and

the democrats today

there is no need there is no need to

address that address abortion to insult

an entire group of people by trying to

downplay the historical evil of slavery

they don't the last thing they need is

people feeling sorry for them and

pretending that it was so bad

they did not even experience it normal i

don't think american conservatives agree

with you we're talking about i don't

think they need normal baseline and

that's why they lose

no that's why americans so conservatives

are losing john you are beyond the

threshold of sanity

that just came in

this one from chris morlock says how can

james hake claim to be a christian when

he cannot see evil is slavery

because slavery is not inherently evil

it's not ideal you don't want it if you

can get your freedom you should do so i

i suppose i'm happy i don't know if i'm

happy about the way it went down

i hear a lot of things about about that

stuff but evil

is real and evil is more subtle

than these people realize

long nights youtube and says as a black

man thank you infrared

sam

shaggy boy says y'all read stream labs

we don't have stream labs it kept

crashing on us

amazing but based on it says

hank

how is an economic system that

encourages greed and envy more christian

than one that promotes equality and

helping your fellow man

that's what communism is it's based on

envy it's based on covetousness it's

based on jealousy and anger

and a false sense of justice the playing

god

when you're not god

and you think like a woman

how does it feel to think like a woman i

thought

that's going to get us in trouble oh

yeah yeah sorry my bad how are you

colonist says

tank how

we got that one chris morlock says hank

or hake does the bible not say in exodus

21 16 quote whoever steals a man and

sells him and anyone found in possession

of him shall be put to death

i think that was talking about fellow

israelites the the even the israel the

black hebrew israelites themselves who

might talk to they're pro-slavery they

just don't want to enslave one another

gotcha i think there might be one more

this one coming in from hitch wagster

says haas aren't you framing slavery as

a past evil and ignoring all the slavery

that we still have today

no i'm my position is crystal clear all

i am doing is doing the baseline

recognition that slavery was an utmost

historical evil that should not be

apologized for downplayed or

there should be no revisionism of this

fact we should recognize this baseline

fact we fought a war

um that tore this country apart on the

basis of the recognition of this fact

it's as simple as that in islamic

countries they they were castrated in

african countries they're enslaved to

this day i don't think that i think

you're downplaying the worldwide evil i

i don't know

i'm not playing any uh instance or evil

of slavery whatsoever but i'm just

recognizing the qualitatively distinct

and distinctly evil nature of slavery on

the american continent specifically

um

leading up to the civil war how old are

you 25 yeah see that's why you're

brainwashed in this way i when i was i'm

i'm 40 when i was in school we learned

that there were good and bad slave

owners

listen i think that's just that's

this view is fundamentally incompatible

um with communism this is like saying

there can be a good and bad rapist

there's nothing to do there's nothing

about slavery that's rape

yes there certainly is actually no yes

there is no

actually there fundamentally is and it's

on a it's a matter of historical record

and widely

i recognize that there may have been

rapes that took place but that's rape

rape is wrong slavery is not ideal and

the two were fundamentally intertwined

with one another

you're claiming you're making that claim

but again there were no

it's a matter of historical fact so

every slave owner committed a rape

against every slave

listen the two were fundamentally

intertwined as you're phenomenal you're

making you're making it okay we are

speaking nonsense let's continue to move

clear is mud just muddying the waters

this question coming in from

steve who says i could be wrong maybe i

misheard him but did james hake say that

slaves were quote treated well

they were treated well many were treated

well they were they were raised

christian some were even taught to read

which reading was not widespread even

among whites

so overall we treated them quite well

compared to many other cultures

this one coming in from adam albilia

good to see you a long time viewer says

infrared it seems like what hake is

trying to say is that quote you haven't

demonstrated how enslaving people is

evil yep

i think it's a matter of it's a

self-evident

and absurd uh

it's the the reason why is just

self-evident if we have to get to a

point where we have to debate about um

why slavery is fundamentally evil then

everything else becomes up to debate too

right yeah i don't want to arrive at a

situation

where we have to start debating about

things like pedophilia and things we we

know intuitively and inherently to be

wrong god is self-evident but you're

relying on your feelings you're lost

about that

um

like i said there are things there are

lines we should not cross as human

beings as a matter of basic human

decency and humanity

how do you react to the british deep

state's attempt to assassinate lincoln

by supporting unpatriotic john wilkes

booth and the confederacy also shout out

to infrared and rtsg

i don't know much about that but it

sounds like it was evil fighting against

maybe evil i don't know whether abraham

lincoln was good or evil because i just

you can't trust any history nowadays

much less the mainstream media present

day

you got it and with that do want to

remind you our guests are linked to the

description folks it has been a lively

one to be sure and we are excited for

this other lively one that i had

mentioned earlier in the stream as we

have confirmed it just a couple weeks

ago destiny and stefan molyneux in the

last week of this month you don't want

to miss it that's going to be a juicy

one so hit that subscribe button and

want to say thanks again james hake as

well as infrared it has been a juicy one

to say the least

thank you guys appreciate that okay

thank you and i'll be back in a moment

folks to give you updates on upcoming

debates so stick around for that