DESTROYING Ben Norton

the they're inverting the old political

problem of the social democrats who

claim to be socialists but always bend

over backwards to defend the democrats

as the lesser evil

so you don't doubt you don't defend the

democrats ben you just defend

the

cultural superstructure of the democrat

politics you just defend

the woke culture and woke agendas

and policy positions that correspond to

the political power of the democratic

party but you're too much of a fucking

coward to come out and admit that in

practice you actually just support the

democrats just like the bernie people

are too fucking spineless to come out

and admit that they just support biden

right just like how the democrats

themselves are too cowardly to fucking

admit and come out and just say we just

support the status quo of the

establishment republicans

[Music]

so we're talking about organizations dsa

psl workers world friso

uh you know other progressive

organizations like that's the left it's

not a bunch of like weirdos with a

youtube channel like these so-called

patriotic socialists it's not us either

by the way like we're left

so first of all benny uh you're saying

that oh the left is actually all of

these like fronts for the democratic

party so what you really mean is that

the left is the democratic party and the

institutions under the control of the

democratic party because even if these

organizations aren't directly shilling

for the democrats although the grand

majority of them do they're still tied

to the same institutions that correspond

to the democrats in political reality

the same academic institutions the same

ngos the same network of activism yadda

yadda so what you're really talking

about is george soros and the democratic

party that's the left according to you

it's just so we're clear because i don't

i don't exactly know why the dsa what

about the dsa and the psl make them any

more real than just like some fucking

people on the internet well what is it

the fact that they've had book club

meetings in person is it the fact

they're touching each other poking each

other like physically is that what makes

what makes them more real it's not like

these people

you know are successfully exerting any

like hegemony or are directing anything

that is outside of the democratic party

it's not like these things these things

have any actual influence on the

political reality whatsoever

outside the democratic party i'm sure

they influenced the democratic party and

its policies in some ways such as the

progressive wing of the democratic party

aoc in the squad which also happened to

be the vanguard of u.s imperialism as of

2022 promoting and trying to export the

united states's woke cultural agenda

around the fucking world something the

gray zone is rather cognizant of

uh so cognizant that it led to the

falling out in which you resigned from

the gray zone because you decided that

you know uh american woke

politics is is somehow uh

continuous with international

anti-imperialist

politics which just isn't true outside

america at least

so let's let the let's let this strange

uh being who looks like

uh grendel from beowulf continue

speaking

we are not the left

yeah like this guy and then

who is this

who is this uh

i think you are the left actually i

think you are um

you're all doing this you're all just

democrats pretty much you're all just

shit libs and then this gives us to this

whole nonsense of like these patriotic

socialists who have a lot in common with

the national socialists i'll say and and

uh and

uh apparently we're just supposed to

like take that

we're just supposed to like

take that for granted and not question

it like do we ask him for examples of

like how or

no we just he just said that okay i

guess we just assume that's true because

he said it

i mean you know what no i'm gonna drop

the passive aggression and just be like

hey ben how how ben actually how

how the fuck are patriotic socialists

like national socialists like materially

speaking fucking how are patriotic

socialists being funded by the military

complex are they being funded by

industrialists are they being funded by

the imperialist financial bourgeoisie to

like exercise extra democratic extra

liberal emergency powers with which to

like retain their rule and power like

how are they like the national

socialists exactly

like what an abjectly stupid fucking

thing to say

how

are they fighting actual is there a real

communist movement that they're somehow

suppressing or fighting and please if

there is one put me in its fucking

direction and if you tell me the dsa is

a real communist movement i'm gonna spit

in your fucking dumb face

or the psl for that fucking matter i'm

gonna spit in your dumb fucking face

how little socialist they are and how

how much patriotic and nationalist they

are but uh

i we just got attacked for being too

anti-american by the way because samir

appraised

the diplomatic relations between china

russia and saudi arabia because it's

undermining american hegemony so that

just goes to show what it like dumb

inconsistent fuck this guy is

i mean these people are first of all

complete fringe they have no influence

outside of okay then why are you talking

about us

hello is this on aren't you talking

about us

why don't you talk about something that

matters

ben

benny boy why don't you fucking talk

about something that matters then if we

don't matter and we're just fringe and

irrelevant so on the one hand we don't

matter we're fringe and we're irrelevant

and on the other hand we are no

different from that we share a lot in

common with the national socialists who

are famously known for having no

historical significance at all right

like social media and i say this as

someone who's a journalist but like i

don't claim to be a political leader

i don't claim to like you know have a

movement of people behind me like these

so-called patriotic socialists who

always bend over backward to do lesser

evilism in defense of republicans

how

how all all of this is aesthetics all of

it is discourse it's all because

we like endorse a lot of the messages

coming from republicans

is that what you're talking about

so what

the republicans are a counter-hegemonic

uh force okay the it's yeah it's a

deception they're just it's just it's

wolves leading lamb to the slaughter

but that's what it exists as the

republicans

are like a party of disruption they're

just like a counter-hegemonic

anti-status quo virtue signaling

which usually translates into upholding

the status quo because behind the scenes

these are all neocons and people who are

in bed with the department of defense

granted okay but still the reason the

messaging the reason a lot of the

messaging of the republican party not

actually of the party but by like

republican figures like major taylor

green madison cawthorne and donald trump

resonate with us so much is because

they're anti-hegemonic messages

and in and of itself those aren't bad

messages all right

and we're kind of playing we're doing

something counterintuitive

by using those messages

in a pro-communist way

so

that's what your butt hurt about because

you're like a fucking butt hurt you know

leftist who just like has your fucking

panties in a bunch over like we're not

using the correct terminology shut the

fuck up dude you just we're just your

teddy bears being beaten up and that's

what you're fucking mad about you treat

you shoot socials like a teddy bear and

we're beating the shit out of that teddy

bear and that's what you're fucking

whining and crying my teddy bear fuck

your teddy bear okay

fuck your teddy bear

what is the point of that like all

they're doing is

like you need like this consistent set

of slogans and imagery and aesthetics

that make you feel comfy and cozy and

we're like shitting all over that and

that's your fucking problem

they're inverting the old political

problem of the social democrats who

claim to be socialists but always bend

over backwards to defend the democrats

as the lesser evil

so you don't doubt you don't defend the

democrats ben you just defend

the

cultural superstructure of the democrat

politics you just defend

the woke culture and woke agendas

and policy positions that correspond to

the political power of the democratic

party but you're too much of a fucking

coward to come out and admit that in

practice you actually just support the

democrats just like the bernie people

are too fucking spineless to come out

and admit that they just support biden

right just like how the democrats

themselves are too cowardly to fucking

admit that and come out and just say we

just support the status quo of the

establishment republicans but to be fair

to the cp usa something i didn't cover

tonight is at least they're starting to

just openly fucking endorse liz cheney

now a fucking republican

by the way the fucking cpu usa endorsed

liz cheney we're gonna cover that

tomorrow mike i'm saving that for

tomorrow remind me

doing the same thing but saying

republicans of the lesser evil and

they're calling for outlying with people

like marjorie taylor green who is one of

the most explicitly fascist politicians

in the u.s

how

how is she a fascist

explain she has good messages

and yeah she's wrong about china but

that's because she has like a miss

like but why is she wrong about china is

there something fundamental there or is

she just misled and i think she's misled

us right now let's not forget this is

someone who who honored and admires j

edgar hoover the founder of the fbi a

complete mccarthyite and rape

notice ben is just talking about like

some dumb fucking ideological aesthetics

nothing about where her messages and

signaling actually aligns materially

in the infowar nothing of that nature

like there's nothing decisive about her

talking about j edgar hoover there is

something really significant and

decisive about her calling for the

abolition of the fbi

racist who oversaw cointelpro

assassination of black revolutionaries

like fred hampton oversaw me or my teddy

bear my teddy bear she's using words in

a way that hurt my teddy bear what is

what's your material relation to those

forces though ben to cointelpro and the

like she could paint lip services jaguar

hoover materially speaking is her place

in the info war actually beneficial to

them it's not that's why they're fucking

after her and they call her a fucking

russian agent you dumb fuck you dense

dumb fuck looking like fucking grendel

from beowulf

uh you know the surveillance and spying

on of of mlk i mean

she she was praising yeah she she she

literally surveilled and spied on mlk

so he's going from the leap of majority

taylor green

said something positive about a

historical figure

that makes her responsible for that

what does that say about her actual

position today in relation to the actual

people who inherited that power

structure i don't know he doesn't care

though because for him it's all ideology

that's all that matters

using the fbi when it was cracking down

under trump on black lives matter

protest all right guys get your get your

nerd emojis out get everyone get your

nerd emojis out

let's put our glasses on

so major retailer green is speaking out

against the fbi

but you're not doing it in an

academically informed way

you're not doing it according to the

correct theories

you're not doing it because of the same

academic reasons and theoretical reasons

isn't it rich that there's like

ideological contradictions in major

taylor green's position

that's just makes her a hypocrite and it

just makes everyone stupid for trying to

endorse her because everything's about

ideology and those contradictions

couldn't possibly be explained by

something in material reality relating

to the position of the american working

class that she represents

versus the institutions of the

democratic party the woke agenda and the

globalists who are the highest stage of

imperialism

oh my god let's put our glasses on

she just doesn't have the right academic

reasons that's the problem

tests right she called black lives

matter the biggest threat to the united

states

uh fuck blm fuck that whole movement i

just said it

now now it's not only her it's me who

said it i said it fuck fuck them

fuck the george soros front blm how

about that

this was a little over a year ago she

and all these trump republicans were

encouraging the police to brutalize

protesters and now there's con

calling for they're not going to

actually abolish the fbi what is their

tangible

okay so

first of all he thinks the police is the

same as the fbi and they're not they're

actually structurally different and as

much as i'm against the police

the anti-police sentiment that was

coming from the progressives

was inversely proportional

to their anti-fbi sentiment they're pro

uh globalist federal institutions like

the cia and they're against these like

local whatever ones and again i'm

against the police everyone is but just

being anti-police doesn't fucking mean

anything right especially when the

majority of the anti-police sentiment

from the establishment is coming from a

perspective of increased federal powers

all right

and anyway

um

he's saying they're not going to balance

the fbi they're not going to abolish the

fbi

okay

but at least they're making it

politically possible

to be opposed to the fbi now now an

anti-fbi position because it's the

position that matters ben it's where

you're positioned strategically against

imperialism that fucking matters and

it's not actually about whether you're

going to fucking abolish the fbi

overnight it's whether or not you are

you can actually form a political

platform in a political position that is

strategically positioned against the

institutions of imperialism because mind

you ben the fbi isn't a fucking

democratic institution of the republic

it's an imperialist strictly and

explicitly imperialist institution that

forms in the aftermath of the

first world war the imperialist first

world war so ben get your shit straight

we're talking about the institutions of

imperialism

which she is

participating in a politics that is

strategically positioning itself against

that has implications for the class

struggle ben you dumb fuck you're

sitting here like a fucking utopian

idiot

interpreting political messages in terms

of like the immediately immediate policy

making

uh conclusions oh they're not gonna lead

to the destruction of the fbi they're

just gonna make something worse instead

what

that's that's like saying um

oh yeah i'm against you know i'm against

black nationalists fighting the police

because they're just going to create

something worse instead who fucking

cares what happens after

if you are looking at us if look

the collapse of the establishment is

unconditionally and always good

fascism didn't collapse the

establishment at all it was an extension

of it

nothing was collapsed

he's saying yeah i actually anticipate

they're gonna like destroy the fbi but

i'm scared they're going to make

something worse and it's that you're a

cuck you're a coward and you're

defending the status quo because you're

fear-mongering about a hypothetical that

is nowhere within the practical

vicinity of our intervention or reality

and by the way i don't think they're

going to abolish the fbi either

which is why you're even wrong about

fear-mongering that they're going to

make a new gestapo they're not even

going to succeed abolishing the fbi what

they are doing is

giving expression to the masses

opposition

to the institutions of imperialism that

is very profound that is a profound

achievement that should be endorsed

should be praised

of course it should what the fuck

action plan for abolishing the fbi first

of all they don't even have

yeah you didn't run by you didn't run a

plan by me and major retail green so

even though the masses are like overly

overwhelmingly engaging in anti-fbi

sentiment because you didn't run a plan

by me ben norton

shut the fuck up you fucking gatekeeping

nerd bitch

who the fuck are you to be run to have a

who needs to run a plan by you at all

for anything

the fuck

the votes if they wanted to which they

clearly don't want to what's much more

likely is they take power the

republicans take power again and they

strengthen the fbi

i mean this is a ridiculous she actually

said that she actually has said that by

the way that it's just that republicans

need to take back power yeah they can

like make it not a political weapon

anymore yeah so

this is

okay

but if that happens it's going to be

perceived as a betrayal of the trump

aspect and yeah trump has already

betrayed his movement which his movement

is starting to be cognizant of you don't

go again you don't

tap into that

by supporting the mainstream media and

the establishment

it's it's a primary contradiction these

dumb fucks don't understand maoism

they don't understand

that the trump movement is never going

to be taken to its fruition yeah he is

going to sell him out he is going to be

betrayed

but in terms of what makes sense do you

have to use the language that makes

sense to these people communists used to

fucking speak in religious terms when

they went into the fucking south because

that's what made sense to people same

thing with trump same thing with major

retailer green and all that shit if you

don't get that you're a dumb fuck you

don't understand anything works

this is a complex political debate that

goes back many decades right goes back

hundreds of years about when you should

form political

short-term alliances with your enemies

with you know far-right right-wing

libertarian people right so

notice no there's no there's no material

or class analysis enemy and friend is

based on ideology nothing more another

example this would be like the anti-war

movement like i think libertarians on

economic issues are really dumb i think

their economic world view is insane it's

another planet but there are a lot of

short-term coalitions between the left

and libertarians against war

why why why should we why should we why

should we ally with libertarians against

war they're not going to against war

they're going to be against war when

they get into power they're just going

to ramp up the war machine why should we

why should we ally with them because

libertarianism preserves capitalism and

capitalism creates war so why should we

ally with libertarians ben they're not

gonna they're not gonna destroy or

abolish war you fucking idiot

what a fucking

sellout or yeah man we're in libya that

makes sense because

no it doesn't make sense man it doesn't

fucking make any sense really i mean i

don't want to cut you off too much but

when i was at fire when i still had jade

hampshire at fire dog lake who the fuck

is this

who the fuck is this

whipped the house and stopped them from

passing a resolution in support of the

syrian conflict that was the process

margaret taylor green wants to put forth

a bill in congress shooting the word

socialism with a machine gun so you

the other part of this is that if you

form a temporary political coalition

with someone you do it with someone who

so if libertarians shoot the word

socialism you shouldn't ally with them

as for an anti-war coalition right is

that what you're saying

is a lesser enemy not a bigger enemy

right like libertarians i think they're

dumb a lot of issues but i don't think

they're as bad as fascists

because because they don't shoot the

word socialism

as long as they don't shoot cardboard

signs they're fine right the number one

enemy and and obviously i don't like

liberals either but if i have to switch

between liberals and fascists i'll

choose the liberals you don't ally with

the people who are even worse enemies

who's supporting the azov battalion

which is an actual fascist organization

in ukraine

do you even know what fascism is you

dumb fuck if the fbi is engaging in a

bunch of fucking

extra judicial and extra fucking legal

raids using arbitrary violent power

that's an example of fascism you dumb

fuck you don't even know what fascism is

you just think it's a fucking

fascism is when you're super

conservative and super traditional

that's fascism fascism is when you're

against the progressives that's fascism

shut the fuck up you dumb fuck

that's just almost like when you're

super anti-woke shut the fuck up you

dumb fucking dumb as a rock dumb fuck

political coalitions work so the idea of

the left aligned with the far right

against the center is extremely stupid

and by the way the left is very little

power what is the far right then

materially what is that far right tell

me what it is materially

why are you what are you using are you

using a bunch of ideological terms

translate this into an actual class

strategy give me the actual

social formations all of these forces

represent

go ahead

and and explain their specific strategic

significance

within modern day imperialism

the actual one that exists mind you

and that's based in the city of london

and wall street give me an actual

fucking analysis ben give me an actual

analysis

the far right in the u.s has a lot of

power so if you form a coalition with

someone and then your coalition wins

they return against you and you have no

power so the far right's gonna win the

people

the leftists aren't even worthy of

entering into a coalition with anyone

because they're not even fucking

significant enough to do anything in the

first place so what are you fucking

bitching about in the first place ben

we can't answer it you're just saying we

should waste our energy tailing

democrats because of the threat of

fascism when we support liz cheney

instead of using the messages and

language of the trump movement to reach

the actual working class to make common

ground with them to build an independent

party an independent movement

yeah thank you so much chris yeah the

irony of that using schmidty and logic

to call other people fascists you're

right

for the full episode go to the

center.org

i would rather fucking drink a bucket of

piss than fucking watch the full best

fucking episode of that

suck at full fucking dick

suck a whole fucking dick