Haz vs Bobby | InfraredShow Dicussion

hello

hello

yeah

good how are you

hey uh

i'm not trying to

i actually believe that about 95 of

everything you talk i appreciate your

education

everything you you know you spread

whatever i just had a question about the

military

man um

i'm totally on the same page with you

man like i'm for i love my countries and

like i love my neighbors i love

uh

you know what i mean uh

but i have no connection to the to the

flag right i have no connection to these

borders or anything like that and i'm

i'm not gonna you know closing this down

with you know the history of our country

obviously right

so i just

i can

i only reason i say this because i see

one of your one of the biggest

criticisms people have of you online is

that you know

a nazi and [ __ ] and i totally disagree

i just completely

like i get the parallels for people that

don't know you you see what i'm saying

and i'm just trying to like

maybe there's

i want your thoughts right i guess

because yeah

so

the fla i'm gonna break it down the flag

thing is a cultural thing right so we

could push that in the back

but i would insist upon something

borders are based in material reality

they are not arbitrary

borders are based in determinate

uh recognition between sovereign states

and there are lines you do not cross

they're mutually recognized

internationally

borders right which means they function

material they have a material reality it

doesn't matter what you think about

borders

even if you for example

believe in the complete elimination of

all borders

you cannot speak for the people of

canada and mexico and other places right

you

uh they're still going to have a border

whether you want like it or not

if you believe in no borders your effect

and you want to impose this upon them

you're effectively an american

chauvinist because you're imposing an

ideology that you contrived in america

for as an american upon the mexican

right so this is how uh borders and

territories are actually material

realities it doesn't matter what your

ideology is

the difference is actually materially

real formally

um

okay um

i i'm kind of a dumbass so i think i get

that right um

it's like it's like we are americans

we're

there there's a difference between

there's been americans and mexicans

right mexicans say we have our own

country we have our own state americans

say the same thing if americans decided

to say we don't have our own country we

don't have our own state we can't impose

that on mexicans because they live in a

different country right they're coming

from a different place

i get that i get that i i guess

all of it so all that though is

the borders and everything like and

again because i hate that we stole this

land argument because it's it's

it's a stupid argument but i mean like

so for example during the revolution

like getting for example like uh the

black black people the black working

class to get them on our side for

example with the 1776 arc

like

any most people

like 1772 is what sutherland the the the

crown right banned slavery in in

everywhere except the colonies because

it was a sutherland or whatever it was a

guy's name was right

and so a lot of the callings saw the

writing on the wall like for example the

people we know people that win the wars

write the history books right

there are 13 colonies right they all

didn't go to war with britain over the

[ __ ] t right it was other things like

they did like the crown didn't want

western expansion right and like and a

lot of it cause some of it in the south

probably had to do with slavery like

they saw the writing on the wall because

of the southern act right so like going

with this 1776 and and to a lot of

people that they see that as a as a war

flag even to this day

you know what i mean so i just it's

and i serve too man i've seen the [ __ ]

we do overseas you know what i mean and

that's one of the reasons that turned me

off to capitalism because i've been

front row and center for the for the you

know i've been in the belly of the beast

i hate it's [ __ ] [ __ ] i've seen

what it does you know and so

yeah so

yeah so

so here's the thing right

the seven 1772 case of uh somerset

is widely

sorry yeah it's widely being used by the

proponents of the 1619 project who are

trying to push this idea

that

uh the english were about to abolish

slavery in the colonies but

the the law actually just stated that

slaves that run british soil could not

be brought back to the americas

and if you look at what actually

happened

after 1776 the somerset axe was actually

used as the premise

of laws within the 13 colonies in the

north in order to lead to the complete

erasure and abolition of slavery

somerset continued to serve as the

foundation for uh abolish

abolitionist interpretations of the

constitution after 1776.

so there's nothing about it that

like it's the american revolution

couldn't possibly have been a reaction

to that

uh at least it couldn't significantly

have been because it was fully

consecrated after even after the

revolution it wasn't reversed or

abolished

um right

no i i totally agree and i mean the

other part too right what they the crown

offered freedom to slaves that fought

against the the colonists right as well

or no that was a cynical ploy by the

british

yeah it was a cynical employee they

didn't care about

and the only evidence we need to know

about the nature of the british empire

is

during the

sorry is my mic working

i can hear you fine i don't know if they

can on the stream hello okay let me

i don't know what the [ __ ] happened

okay here we go yeah

the only evidence we really need for

that is the fact that

the

british industrialization was carried on

the back of southern uh

slavery and the confederacy in the

british empire would become

geopolitical cultural and strategic

allies right

it's almost like slavery in the south

came to represent the last

representation of the british empire

right and

lincoln represented the final triumph of

america over the british empire at least

and this was the eyes of the british

press they demonized lincoln as like an

anti-liberal and he's betraying the

fundamental anglo-saxon uh you know

principles of liberalism and he's a

tyrant and all this kind of stuff right

so i think it's it's more ambiguous now

as far as winning over black

working-class people

um i think there's an issue

of a need for black national

self-determination and that means we

can't confuse the way black people

understand their own history and in this

country with the way that uh people who

are committed to the united states

do right i don't just mean white people

i mean anyone who is so concerned who

believes in the united states and and

you know

um

believes in being a part of the united

states which i don't think black people

have any obligation to the united states

hasn't

well it hasn't uh

it has excluded black people

since the founding right so

so i think we if if we want to convince

the black population united states that

the us is something worth being a part

of and and fighting for the job is on us

to prove that to them so we that's we

can't expect different types of people

who have been victims of the united

states to be so eager to join the

project but

we do have a common enemy in the current

uh

political establishment which is also

stifling

the ability for there to be black

self-determination which is something i

do fundamentally believe in

i mean yeah anything that's

progress in the word of you know my

definition of progress in this case i

hate all the liberalism and all those

terms because people

you know they use them they don't use

them in the right it's they don't you

know what i mean they use them for to

make a point and it's and as like

insults and half the time they don't

know what the [ __ ] they're every

everything's a fascist like the lady

didn't bring your [ __ ] chips she's a

fascist like it's [ __ ] stupid so i

just yeah man i and i sort of just

i heard you i watched the other night

you were with you that [ __ ] uh

extreme racist uh blonde kid uh rook or

what yeah the guy

and and so he kept bringing up this

with in regards to like the civil war

the revolutionary war and he's he you

would say you're from lebanon right but

he would say no it wasn't y'all it

wasn't us or it wasn't you know that

wasn't us that did this and even like

people in his

it

like

every i just

i first of all i appreciate your

patience with him because that was but i

how do you how do you do like what is

your argument to this to that

the reason i'm so confident about

that yeah the re what makes me so

confident about being an american and i

don't mean to be vulgar here but you

know america is one of the only places

where everybody's circumcised right when

you're born they take a little piece of

you and that means you're an american

basically right

it's just a analogy right that's how it

works for your soul too right when

you're born in america and you're born

in this country this country

restructures

how you relate to your reality how you

think about reality how you live it

doesn't matter what cultural background

you come from this country takes a piece

of you right

and

to me

um

there's something about me despite my

cultural background and not having

ancestors who are from here that is

fundamentally american right

um

so that's what the whole we're all

immigrants essentially right yeah yeah

yeah exactly it's like to me it's it's

almost like america's a curse but i also

have this curse too right there's

something about it that i also share

america's like uh

it's like a common

um

it's a common existential crisis we have

and my view has only been that i just

think the people

who are trying to erase america it's not

that i'm like saying oh please don't

erase america i'm just saying i think

it's a cope i think you're not

confronting our crisis you're trying to

cop out of it i think we have to face as

americans

like

we have to face what america is we have

to face its reality we have to face why

it is america came to be what is really

great about america why has it survived

for so long why did it become one of the

preeminent power of the world it's not

just because of imperialism there were

also many other imperialist powers

um

you know we have to we have to give

credit to the fact there is something

world historically significant about

america right

and that's just uh

i just first i mean personally and this

is something that i feel like that that

uh our schools and media are willfully

ignorant to most of the public is um the

petro dollar and the arrangement with

saudi arabia the arrangement we have

yeah absolutely and

and how that like

we're in the middle of the cold war and

it's this big arms race and then all of

a sudden nixon makes this deal where

they can basically print money and now

all of a sudden oh where the [ __ ]

capitalism wins like yeah as vero focus

said

it's almost like we're not even living

in capitalism because in capitalism

profit is what drives the economy

whereas what's what's driven our economy

since 2008 is just printing money

yeah exactly well it's yeah once they

figured out the the hack basically i

guess yeah it's it's not it's not even

like people aren't even making profit

normally anymore they're just printing

money and and and injecting that into

the economy

yeah and they're just out printing the

money they're just out printing

inflation they're just trying to

basically stay in front of it at this

point yeah it's like they they repent

money and they just hope the real

economy will catch up

and they just keep kicking the dance

they can down the road yeah and i mean

domestically it's a [ __ ] ponzi scheme

the dollars right and then

you know internationally that's why we

have you know like iraq syria libya

[ __ ] it was going to be venezuela

these are all these are all countries

that got off the petrol dollar they went

to the euro or these other

you know and it's no we're the world

trade currency and it's no you know

it's no coincidence we have one 800

bases all over and like nobody's you you

bring this up to people like it's the

most obvious connection with everything

with all our foreign policy

and you and you and it's

that's what got you know once i figured

that out that's what sort of just

started making me scratch my head and i

was like wait and then just sort of

connecting the dots i just got really

[ __ ] curious and uh yeah man i i just

it's

it's almost

aggravating trying to talking to people

and it's it's it's just all over the

place man

um yeah i don't really have

go ahead man oh no keep going

i mean i don't really have much else man

i'm not really trying to get into a big

debate man i just like wanted to just

yeah

i just think the you know a lot of

people think that oh what is america

america is just this white supremacist

project and i'm not denying uh white

supremacy's relation to america i mean

that's very much obvious but i think

there's more to america than that i

think america represents pragmatism it

represents

this in contrast to europe it represents

this new way of re relating to reality

where we don't make assumptions about

reality we we um

we just focus and care about things that

work instead of they don't necessarily

have to be meaningful or have to be

loaded with intention or whatever they

just have to work they just have to

somehow

function or be there i think

this american mentality is something

that all modern countries came to

presuppose the soviet union china they

all adopted

this

thing that seems to have originated from

america

uh this specific form of modernity right

and now they also rediscovered their own

particular civilizations after but my

view has always been

that embracing american patriotism is

going to give us a platform

to also rediscover the unique you know

cultures and civilizations of the

americas whether they're indigenous or

whether they're you know hispanic like

related to mexico and our southwest or

whether they're french

or

wherever there's so much different

cultures and localities within the

united states i just think america i

don't think america is its own culture

necessarily i think it's a platform

yeah to discover specific cultures and

realities if that makes sense no i i

completely agree and what i mean

the essence of what america was

basically after world war ii like that's

where all the growth and anything that

we you know what i mean and we got

alaska and hawaii and yeah

a lot of people really take that we are

a lot of people take for granted how for

example in the soviet union

they were considered very much american

how do i put it amerophile i don't know

what you call it but people foreigners

remark why are you so uh

obsessed with everything american why do

you idolize henry ford

um what it is about america that you

consider so

worthy of like

um admiration and so on and so on

and

iran now right even the youth and iran

are

well that's that's just the cultural

thing and the soviet union at the time

in the 30s they would basically respond

they would say in contrast to these

arrogant europeans we just like

the frankness of america we like their

pragmatic practical attitude where they

just like to get to the root of things

get to the bottom of things and they

don't like to waste time and be arrogant

and so on and so on like

there's something there that i think

isn't reducible to white supremacy or

this kind of racism or whatever

no i look i i'm 100 with you but there's

everyone there's all this a whole group

of people that realize that they're

three-fifths of a person when that

arrangement was made you know what i'm

saying and so

getting past that hurdle with a lot of

people and especially with everything

else and then it's just

yeah i mean uh

i i think that

i don't think america is

in essence racist i think racism is a

is something that

it represents the way america struggles

with itself and struggles with its

origins in the british empire the truth

is and this is why jefferson would say

things like the american experiment will

truly prove its uh

its merit when we have a muslim

president and he was he was joking when

he said that it was so outlandish to say

that but he was talking to the tunisians

or sorry uh

was it the tunisians or the libyans at

the time

it was like there was a diplomatic

mission he was basically like oh yeah

like

basically he was trying to say the amer

our ideal our vision is to have a

country that does not recognize

distinctions in

you know background or religion or

ethnicity it's just this

state which is the bare minimum of a

state

a commonwealth of some kind of republic

that is by foreign of the people and

which is totally indifferent to our

specific backgrounds and realities now

where white supremacy figures in

is when this indifference is turned into

like a

exterminationist rejection when the when

it's not only indifferent to our

particular backgrounds but it rejects

our particular backgrounds right that's

where i think white supremacy and like

white purity comes in where

they just want to have this culture of

absolute purity that's not contaminated

by specific substantive

cultural or national or ethnic realities

but i don't think that's an i don't

think that has to be the consequence of

america america doesn't have to be white

supremacist we can still preserve this

specific american indifference to any

one specific uh

nationality while at the same time

respecting those realities if that makes

sense we're not going to inscribe them

into the foundation of our state

but we can still respect them and still

even acknowledge them in some kind of

way

well yeah and then i mean all the we

don't we don't have to make a state

founded on the basis of nationality or

ethnicity

uh or religion

but we can still be a state that

respects those things is what i'm trying

to say oh i i i don't i don't disagree

with that at all and i just feel like

some of the

uh i don't the things that we've grown

accustomed to

are like a lot of we've been sold a lot

of

goods you know for especially like poor

people in this country and it just sort

of flows over into minorities because

the way the system works like

one of my favorite is the 13th amendment

right like they repealed slavery but

kind of not really because if you're in

trouble they can just

you know what i mean and then now you

have these for-profit prisons that you

have sheriff's departments that have

quotas they have to fill seats like it's

a [ __ ] movie theater you know what i

mean yeah i i agree i mean like i'm not

a i'm not like some

one-sided american caricature i do

recognize

there is a fundamental evil to this

country and especially

i wasn't trying on social television to

think you didn't i know you all already

know yeah i mean yeah this is a brutal

evil country also which kills and

stifles people's humanity and

annihilates people's humanity in the

name of this false sense of stoic

indifference and um a sense of uh you

know

substanceless abstract justice i

completely understand that and and i get

that

this is a country that's

built in a way indifferent to our

humanity right

but

i don't think

i don't i just don't think it's

one-sided at the same time you have this

hideous evil

you also at the same time

uh can not overcome this evil by trying

to just ignore it or wipe it away in

favor of like

completely discarded there's something

about america that's true if that makes

sense there's something even about this

evil that's true and if we don't

acknowledge it's rational kernel so to

speak

we cannot uh

we cannot

we cannot really cure the disease of

americanism itself

we can just try to attack then target

the symptoms but we're not going to be

able to deal with the disease

i mean i agree and a hundred percent

it's just that you know

yeah with the wealth and equality and

everything it's it's there's there's so

many layers and it's we're just uh

indoctrinated into this system of a lie

i mean from like

what you're four or five years old when

you go to kindergarten right

and it's

all the way through public schools

you know what i mean and yeah

you get the college debt and you have

your chase to this thing your entire

life a hundred thousand dollars

whatever it's uh

they've got so many people just buy the

balls and they don't even realize it

it's anyways i just like know your

thoughts man because when people see

your clips

of yelling at people and like it sucks

because i see the passion

but then when i see people like oh he's

a [ __ ] fascist i'm like yeah it's

[ __ ] hard to win people over like

that man

um

anyways that's it man yup all right see

you later thank you so much buddy bye

all right