DEBATE: Slovenly Sunday WRECKED Beyond Recovery!

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foreign

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hey how you doing yeah it seems like you

have a number of objections to what I've

said so I want you I do and I want to

forewarn you um I was not anticipating

this so I am I I don't care you you uh

you massively massively uh intoxicated

at the moment so I will try my best why

is it okay hold on if you're in so why

do why every time I like confront

someone who like makes this accusation I

don't know what I'm talking about or

whatever and I'm like okay put your

money actually actually by the way if I

may you surprised me a little bit you

know you said some crazy stuff I can't

for the life of me recall what it was

but you were

you were making weird leaps that

indicate that you are not actually that

stupid you actually you've read stuff

and that's that's interesting to see

well I I sorry bad stuff dude but I know

you know you've read stuff but I didn't

know you've read stuff okay so

why can't I ever talk to someone who

will soberly that meaning they don't

have an excuse actually like prove why

the way I'm unfairly maligned on the

Internet is like a guy who knows nothing

at all is somehow justifiable because of

your radically bad faith interpretations

of the things I say on stream like what

is it exactly that well I don't think I

don't think I don't think my

interpretations of what you said on

stream are bad faith but I will give you

this uh what I will offer you this

however

um if you would like to prepare a

discussion on whatever it is we're

talking no why don't you just find hours

behind you

um I would I would be very happy with it

why don't you just confront me with what

you think I'm so wrong about

because I'm two hours behind you and I

don't know what you're responding to and

I don't know what I would be drawing

upon specifically okay well to be clear

I'm providing an introduction and I'm

trying to really simplify

uh a lot of the things that are yeah

necessary to understand to read my Maga

communism sub stack because sure that

sub stack is drawing from a lot of ideas

for the for a beginner they're not

really understanding where I'm coming

from so that's really what we're trying

to develop by by the you mean by they

mean you're you're your general audience

my no the J well I actually think that I

have made novel contributions to

political Theory however minor or uh

insignificant I I yeah I want to die on

that Hill I have made novel

contributions to political Theory well I

I I haven't gone through yet so I'm

quite certain I don't know if you have

or you have not

um what have I gotten wrong so far by

the way what have you gotten wrong so

far well once again like I said I'm

approaching this live I'm listening to

it passively

um there are some things that I would

probably be able to on review identify

but as of right this moment

um I do I do not have wait so you can't

query points to bring it up you can't

name a single thing I was wrong about no

this is an off the cuff live stream very

very massive dumbass like shouldn't that

be easy to name one thing I don't think

I don't think you're a massive dumbass I

think you're a sellout there's a

difference

yeah but the same way as chud logic

which is sad because I think you

actually but if I'm not a master dumbass

why is that my reputation like according

to everyone like on Twitter that's not

my that's not my uh that's not my

opinion but you you I think I think

you're cynical I don't think you're a

master but you actively contribute to

the impression people have me that I

have nothing of any significance to say

because either everything I'm saying is

meaningless or it's just uh well off the

top of my off the top of my head I think

that is the case but I think that's a

matter of your choice I don't think

that's because you don't have the

capacity to actually make an actual

positive contribution to the world I

think you I didn't say a positive

contribution I said

I have nothing to say that should

provoke any thoughts from anyone for

example like I don't have any thoughts

have I said so I don't have any ideas to

bring to the table that are ideas that

are worth consideration or at least

thinking about it however Haas even if

you want to do it from a hostile

perspective I mean like even if you want

to do it from the perspective like okay

this guy's bad he's his ideas would lead

to bad or undesirable outcomes from a

moral perspective or they are

ideologically wrong right or

ideologically

scary right but when people just say I

have nothing that I'm just a nozzle I

have no like unique world view and it's

not a world view that's been thought out

before and it's not coming from a place

of having all right I'm going to be I'm

going to the Mavericks extremely I'm

going to be extremely reductive just

just for the sake of clarity because I'm

if I get lost in the weeds I'm going to

lose the plot very easily right now

um but my general impression of you

is not that you are stupid my general

impression of you is that you found

yourself into a corner where a lot of

people have people like Chad Logic for

ETC and by the way I actually appreciate

it I mean unfortunately was coming from

you given your recent history but I I

appreciated you uh holding him to the

holding his feet to the fire

um for him selling himself as a um what

was it a Mark Fisher socialist and then

changing like that as soon as as soon as

he saw an easy Buck

um

but I I think generally

um what what you are is someone who

probably had at some point early on

um

some real convictions or at the very

least

um you felt a real sense of blowing with

in a certain political sphere and uh you

realize like so many people do that if

you didn't shill for a a

particular set of positions or if you

didn't exaggerate yourself into a

cartoon character that you would have

um you wouldn't be able to sell yourself

and I think that your attempt to do so

has sort of consumed you I'm not in a

position to substantiate that right now

I haven't spent a considerable amount of

time thinking about you

um but that's generally my impression of

what's happened with respect to you I

don't think you're stupid I'll say that

I sold out and I can get to that in a

second but

don't you think it's kind of weird how

just because you disagree with someone

for example on their position on the

Ukraine conflict that suddenly maligns

every other attribute and aspect of

their character like you disagree with

this person on this one issue the

Russell UK recruiting conflict once

again once again I'm not I'm not in a

position to hash out the particulars of

that I might have I'd be happy to do uh

no you don't you don't have to hash out

the parts yeah just saying on bear with

me for one second but the truth is but

you don't have to but if here here's

here's here's the rub though okay okay

so if if someone determines that you're

being cynical on this one point

okay and that's that's generally the

perception it's not that you're stupid

but that you're cynical if someone has

determined I'm not saying that that's

been adequately Justified or not if

someone has determined that you're

cynical on this one point and it stands

to reason that you would be willing to

be cynical and dishonest on another

point and so your right to charity at

that point drops a little bit and I

think that's right but hold on the

problem is not cynicism according to the

actual reputation that has defined me

you know uh

in the streamer community and on Twitter

wherever you else want to go the

impression is that like you know I'm

just a complete dumb fuck who doesn't

have any interesting ideas or anything

interesting to say and you know I'm not

well read on anything I'm not educated

I'm just like a dumb guy who yells and

that's it right that's pretty much no I

think I think I think that's a that's a

bit of a character that you play and I

think it takes a certain level of

intelligence to do that deliberately

um yeah however I think there is a

certain I think there is a certain

um I I see I it's not you know know the

problem present Sunday is that I know

this more than anyone because that's

just Sunday by the way I don't need to

go with the whole pressure my goal isn't

actually to be perceived uh in a good

way necessarily it's just that I want

the things that I say to be

judged based on you know what is

actually being said rather than like

being so radically misinterpreted such

like a horrible lens of bad faith like I

could say something

I could say something and then Hakeem

can say the same thing and he'll get

praised as like a genius oh that's so

interesting Hakeem I want to write like

a 5 000 page you know book on what

that's uh there's an example spring to

mind do you have something in particular

that you're thinking of when you say

that

yeah all the time actually

but like like do you have something like

just just for the sake of clarity do you

have like a particular I'm not if you

don't that's fine that doesn't mean it's

not true I'm just curious

um I just if you take a given Hakim

video which is trying to like run down I

guess capitalist realism by Mark Fisher

or some shit everyone think that's

that's so radical and that's so profound

but if I do a video engaging in an

actual novel

um

reconciliation between Alexander Dugan

and Jesus ideas and a way that I don't

really think anyone's ever thought about

before or at least expressed that

thought like what I that's just nothing

right well I would be I would be

interested to see what video you have in

mind in particular but I will say this

um Alexander Dugan is not renowned as a

critical uh thinker he is a a strong

methodological Nationalist and I have a

a number of problems within the dogs

which I would like to

um collaborate on with with preparation

later on

um okay but Dugan It's it's an un it's

an unusual

how do I want to put this

Dugan and Zizek are antithetical in the

sense that Zizek is somebody who is

invested

in breaking down the reasons for the

presumptions that

govern how we conceive the world whereas

Dugan is highly reductionistic and

essentialist and tries to characterize

these vastly problematic and complicated

political entities as if they could be

simply summarized by reference to

something like National character or

some such something like that that's

very off the coffin no Dugan has a very

rigorous and extremely rigorous and

consistent philosophy and he doesn't

play in such vague consistency and rigor

are not the same thing sometimes you can

achieve a high level of consistency by

shooting because for example Dugan can

tell you what he means by national

character if you read his book ethnosis

yes but but but but if somebody who

knows better does not find that

justifications sufficient then that's

the word you're judging Dugan from an

ideologically loaded perspective as if

his goal kind of kind of the opposite

actually I'm kind of judging Dugan from

the perspective of somebody who spends a

lot of time

um

concerned with material that is

specifically concerned with criticizing

the production the presumptions with

which uh which Dugan must on board in

order to make the claims that you're

completely wrong though if you're saying

Duke is not a critical philosopher look

look look look look once again why do

you have to keep cutting me off are you

scared oh no no I I'm cutting off for a

particular reason though just bear with

me I'm not I'm not attacking you what I

was where I was going is I am perfectly

happy to have a critical discussion

about Dugan etc etc but I am very

particular about approaching serious

topics like this with preparation under

the clearest circumstances possible I

would be happy to schedule something in

a couple of weeks

if you're not prepared for any scrutiny

hmm oh because because you asked me and

I was obliging you no but no I didn't

this is not my definitive statement I

didn't I didn't ask you your opinion on

Dugan you said a bunch of baseless

things what did you ask me I can't quite

recall

I told you why is it Justified if you

disagree with someone on a specific

political issue why has it been

Justified to completely malign their all

other aspects of their character I mean

isn't that kind of like look it depends

if you're if you're if you're carrying

water for a regime that's killing a lot

of innocent people

um at that point like your your

characters

first of all we can get into that in a

second right I'm happy to get into that

but I'm not by the way I would like to I

would like to approach a serious issue

like that with preparation

um under conditions of of sobriety so

you don't need you don't need

preparation to like condemn someone but

you need preparation to justify have I

condemned you

yes

also you've condemned me as a sellout

um I I think you're a seller yes but

once again you've caught me

actively contributed to uh the maligning

of my reputation right I think you've

done so sufficiently by yourself I don't

think you've needed any help from me

believe it or not Sunday

um

how people have come to judge me is not

based on anything self-evident it's

based on a specific and very meticulous

campaign to do in a certain way because

I think what I've seen with all due

respect is I've seen a short angry man

yelling at people in public in defense

of a regime that has bombed schools okay

sure let's yeah let's begin with that

like the whole sure the whole uh short

angry man yelling at people in public so

first of all

I don't even I don't even know where

this impression came from that like

who really I mean I've always joked

about my relatively short height I've

always made I don't think I don't think

your shortness matters I think when

you're defending yeah no no once again

that has resulted in parents losing

their children you don't

do that has resulted in parents losing

their children your shortness is funny

and should be made fun of okay but why

do you make it seem like but that only

works it only works to make fun of a guy

who's five eight if he's bothered by it

but I'm not bothered by it like whenever

we were talking about it

if you talk about me being bald for

example I would move on for a minute but

Sunday I find it funny myself hey we can

get into other things too but it's the

first thing you mentioned right if I ask

you Sunday what is the negative thing

about me you just gave it to me so it's

like you could have said anything else

but as long as you latch onto it as like

a significant as long as that if you if

you were asking me if you were asking me

for the negative thing about you okay I

would go I would go I would go way back

to when you tried to distinguish

Yourself by shouting into your

microphone until it peaked to the point

where you couldn't even be audible you

know what I think I think you did so as

a novelty and I think that was smart but

the problem is yeah you were a bit of a

one-trick pony and that's all you had at

the end of the day Sunday let's add

actually do that I'll I prefer to focus

on the yelling then okay

Everyone likes to focus on my yelling

but nobody wants to evaluate the causes

when have I ever yelled really and maybe

there's a I mean I've been streaming

every day for like two years so I'm sure

you can find one or two exceptions

you're asking the wrong guy I haven't

paid that much okay

all the famous cases of me yelling

we're Justified

for example perspective philosophy sure

I'll grant that one okay that's all I

don't think I yelled that hard with

respect philosophy I don't remember but

I I remember you you literally were

inaudible at one point because your

microphone peaked okay

um regardless it was funny actually

almost in almost every case famous case

of me yelling like social none left or

voice it is always preceded by an

extreme level of disrespect coming from

them

if you I have never actually

disrespected let alone like screamed at

someone or I don't really scream yelled

at someone loudly

if it wasn't

um preceded by a level of disrespect

toward my Humanity if I'm trying to have

a human conversation with you in good

faith and you immediately start making

assumptions about my level of

intelligence just because of the way I

talk or the way I look and you're

starting to dismiss me and disrespect me

and call me names and start cutting me

off

why should I tolerate that why shouldn't

I just fucking you know

of course I'm gonna get angry of course

it will anger me why wouldn't it right

I'm not a fake person I'm actually I I

have I have I have no answer for you and

I wouldn't tolerate that myself however

once again you find yourself in a

situation where you were approaching

strangers on the basis of

off the top of my head minimal evidence

um in defense of a regime that has

caused a lot of innocent people okay

family members okay let's let's assume

I'm so radically immoral because of

Russia which something you don't want to

talk about so let's not talk about right

the fact of the matter Sunday is that

um

you saw the bodies of children and you

put you rated that beneath

okay you but you don't want to talk

about it

if you want to talk about it talk about

it if you don't don't okay I'll talk

about it with two weeks notice um okay

so right now we'll we'll leave that

we'll leave that aside for no fair

enough that you're not prepared to

defend right if you don't want pushback

anyway

I'm just for the sake of argument going

to assume like let's just for the sake

of arguing well I I am a little bit

curious how how many bodies would be too

much before you would turn on Putin

so do you want to go down this road of

Russia I just want to I just want to I

just wanted a miracle answer I I reject

the claim that um Russia Bears the

responsibility

Russia trespass on the borders of

Ukraine Ukraine did not trespass on the

borders of Russia

the fact of the matter is that Russia

had a that is the fact of the matter no

the fact of the matter is that right

that is the fact of the matter Russia

was not in Russia when those deaths

accrued again again I'm going to repeat

this Russia has a legitimate interest in

defending its own National Security it

has a legitimate interest it does not

have a legitimate claim these are

distinct

Russia doesn't need a legitimate claim

to Ukraine it doesn't need a legitimate

claim in your judgment to uh destroy the

lives of thousands of thousands to have

a legitimate claim to Germany they

didn't need one they were just defending

themselves against an aggressive power

weren't they yes but the difference is

that Germany was rolling tanks over the

borders of other countries Ukraine was

not that's what Russia was doing well if

you focus only on Ukraine and Russia

even then it's not true right but if you

don't have the broader perspective of

NATO you can't I I suppose the Germans

did have recourse to the international

cabal of jury

um I'm not sure why you're bringing that

up as if it's relevant why are you

bringing that up like what it's an

analogy house no give me a few weeks we

can talk about it hold on Sunday it's

not an analogy because if you don't take

it it's directly in another Sunday NATO

is an organization which was created to

fight and invade Russia and actually

genocide the Russian people in operation

Unthinkable if you've never heard of

that okay this is the founding causes

belly of NATO as an organization I don't

I don't I don't need to be a NATO simp

to condemn a Sunday criminal gang leader

for Rolling tanks into civilian centers

cut me off if you want no I don't

so are is your position an irrational

one

yeah

so again you're just I have I have I

have an irrational

uh I have an irrational

rage that I cannot quell for when

somebody carries water for people they

do not understand because even as an

easy Buck how can you work killing

children okay I have no I I just I just

I just explode Sunday

if you're going to create a barrier to

rational discourse doesn't that kind of

invalidate your claims to being like a

progressive enlightened thinker you're

thinking I am I am uh I am you were

thinking of the wrong kind of

progressive my friend

okay well what was what's the problem

with me yelling out I mean you're not

even willing to have a rational

disagreement over something you can't I

actually am I am entirely and in fact

what I've said repeatedly what I have

said what I have said Sunday let me

impose upon you what I've said quite

repeatedly is that I would be happy to

have Sunday an extended discussion with

preparation Sunday at some point in the

future of at your convenience yes

um

how can you know that your position is

even correct if you foreclosed yourself

to hearing the other side

I have I I do not I have foreclosed

myself to hearing the other side on

whether or not

um the pride of Russia is worth again

the grinding of thousands of children

into hamburger no one said anything

about the pride of Russia and I'm pretty

sure Sunday that you've expressed

absolutely zero indignation over the

children in the donbass who've been

getting slaughtered since 2014. you

never gave a fuck it's a damn shame that

Russia fermented a Civil War and used

the donbass as a human shield they

didn't they did it because the people in

the dawn bats didn't want to submit to

the fucking Hunter then why is it a

civil war clearly there was not

unanimity about it civil war between the

people in the donbass who speak Russian

and the ukrainians in the West for the

most part that's well clearly not

because the ukrainians are also in the

Don best that's why it's a civil war

Ukrainian military has moved into the

dawn bass yes they have it's literally a

civil war because the Russian speakers

are fighting the ukrainians it's

literally a civil war because Russia

invaded Crimea and then Ukraine it's

that's it no Ukraine suspended any

claims to territorial sovereignty when

it had an illegitimate coup in the eyes

of the people in the dawn bass and in

the people of Crimea and the people of

Crimea are the ones who chose to join

Russia

well that's a little bit strange because

why did Russia need tanks then

maybe to defend from the rabbit to to to

defend from the retaliation to their

crossing the borders with tanks yeah I

expect they did so why did you ask if

they had tanks then

of course it was to protect against the

Ukrainian military but no no no I asked

I asked why they had tanks because the

tanks

action when they crossed the border

Australian government will not respect

the will of the people of Crimea

obviously they didn't and they actually

you think you think if the Russians were

respecting the will of the people of

Crimea they wouldn't have had to invade

that would have been something actually

yes because

considered the vote to be illegal they

wouldn't have held that let's vote you

think if Russia didn't have tanks that

vote would have been allowed to happen

it wouldn't have the Ukrainian

government would have never allowed it I

have no idea let's move back to talking

about like why people are are not being

nice well this is a perfect example dude

you're just not open to the possibility

you might be wrong about me and that's

the problem I'm I'm perfectly open to it

in fact I've said I will I will allow

let's let's set something up two weeks

from now okay so let's spend let's spend

a solid two weeks okay pinning down like

a solid pieces let's do it okay sure

let's do that and then for right now

from say so right now let's just assume

you're right that I I'm so immoral for

supporting Russia but that doesn't give

you a right to lie about I don't I don't

care I don't care you don't have the

right I don't care about someone

hang on hang on what lies have I told

about you what are you referring to

you've obviously contributed to the

impression that I have I have nothing

politically well let's let's produce an

example let's see

um you know just you've I've seen you

Dogpile on Twitter and get on board

talking all that shit basically focusing

I mean you may the thing is Sunday even

you have to admit that I have not earned

my reputation either

crucify me for my position on Russia and

stick with that I don't have I don't

have to admit anything you do um I think

I think I think you're I think your

position on Russia and your situation be

severe position on Russia I there is no

needfulness whatsoever for you to take

your position on Russia you are doing so

because it benefits your channel I think

that can condemns you sufficiently

enough by itself when we look at the

other things like for example how you've

decided to uh try and align yourself as

softly as possible with the radical

right and Target already embattled

groups once again for the sake of

aggrandizing yourself I mean like we can

just go down the list as as long as we

want we can but you're not willing to

because you said you need two weeks not

without preparation I do indeed that's

my policy with everybody we could be we

could be talking about uh

I don't know we we could be talking

about road worker we could be talking

about

um what's that word agglomeration or

whatever okay

well okay all of my sins just how I do

Sunday needs purpose conveniently you

can't really justify all of these

accusations against me you just kind of

ah but I can with two weeks

okay you can do it in two weeks but I

can do it in two weeks but you see the

the yarrow the yarrow will crush the

Khan beneath his heel okay sure but you

see fit to draw these conclusions and

make these statements before the two

weeks have passed I do so I guess you're

just in debt then to see if what you're

saying can actually be paid off in

anything

I suppose so yeah we will have to see

yeah but again

um I gave you infrared infrared's chat

you should uh okay well you should you

should you should you should get to work

and help them out so Sunday I gave you a

chance to uh point out a single thing I

said was wrong your title is obviously

very satirical

um

but I don't know no my my title was

completely serious okay I think you're

the genius voice of a generation cause

okay why does it why do I have to have a

specific reputation why can't you just

like specifically deal with the content

of what I say why does it have to be I'm

either a genius or I'm either a dumbass

why can't you just actually respond to

what I actually just say I think I think

you're a above average intelligence

billing out and making themselves stupid

as a marketing play

I don't think I'm making myself stupid I

think for you I don't think you believe

a single word you say I think you are

saying exactly what you need to to

navigate the conversation at hand you

know why that's so dangerous to claim

because when you've suspended the

ability to ground any position or any

form of thinking or any belief in some

kind of like

something that could be subjected to any

kind of rational scrutiny like when I

have a position that is extremely

consistent and

obeys some kind of intelligible method

that can be communicated is grounded in

a rationally consistent world view of

some kind it's not actually a mystery of

any kind I'm not it's not something like

secret I can communicate my position

very clearly right and I couldn't

understand a word you just said can you

restate that

yeah very funny but I can I can

foreignal rigor I can communicate my

position

so you don't need to say I'm motivated

by anything else when at least what I'm

putting out there

obeys some kind of internal logic when

you tell someone that I'm gonna dismiss

everything you say as the result of some

kind of disingenuous or inauthentic

insincere level of belief you're

basically foreclosing the ability for

human beings that disagree with each

other to communicate

you're making it impossible for

communication to be to happen because

you're basically telling the other

person it doesn't matter what you say

this is I've actually insisted multiple

times in this conversation that we

should have a moderated conversation

specifically

unable to engage with the ideas

yeah I had a donation you said you're

willing to have a debate in two weeks

that's fine but you chose to do this

stream today covering my stuff and I've

given you the opportunity to actually

confront me with what you find

objectionable or wrong

oh when I confront people I confront

people with preparation on my own time

me answering your call is occurring why

didn't you need preparation to respond

to my stream then

uh why didn't I need preparation because

it hadn't happened yet I'm watching it

in in semi-real time I'm an hour behind

you but I'm watching it as it goes were

you going to prepare during the stream

itself did you prepare beforehand

was I going to prepare for what

precisely I'm literally just watching

you write this thing out watching and

responding to my stream

but it's an it's it's it's it's live now

I I was the stream is flying now if the

stream's not done sure I've been told

you've been watching it for like I don't

know a decent amount of time my stream's

been active for about two hours I've

paused a few times

um but your stream has been going let me

look here after a little bit so four

hours yeah so I'm about two hours behind

you so uh yeah I haven't I haven't seen

your whole stream yet so listen there's

nothing to prepare for this is Cutting

Edge an hour of my content right

okay well I've been told that you have a

number of objections to some of the

things I've said and I just am curious

about what that is

I can't recall so yeah so you've watched

an hour so far and you have no

objections

I I had objections as you went through

it I could not encyclopedically recall

them off the top of my head I can go

back and we could talk about this in two

weeks from now

I just that's fascinating you're drunk

and there's no

okay I mean

by the way I've noticed it's a it's a

real um pattern where

um

uh particularly leftist opponents will

get in VC and say I always want to

preface this by saying I'm drunk

uh can you explain why everybody has to

be drunk

well when you're sitting on your ass for

eight hours a day reading books and

streaming and you have like a natural

anxiety about being in front of an

audience of a few injured people you

know you drink sometimes

it really is that simple

right I honestly drinking drinking makes

you feel better I'm not actually looking

for you or any other leftist to agree

with me because I've vehemently disagree

with these people what I'm actually

looking for is for you to correctly

disagree with me which means disagree

with me based on what I say well

disagreeing with you based on what you

say will require me to take time

actually going through reviewing what

you say and ascertaining what you say

first that that would be so you're not

that would be the good faith approach

are you even prepared I'm actually

willing to give you the benefit of it

out and take it completely seriously and

spend time actually combing through okay

are you what you said and judging

so given I have such a whore I'm such a

bad person with a horrible reputation

this is my point okay

you can have your own gripe with me

about the Russell Ukraine conflict we're

not going to get into it you can have

that gripe

that doesn't justify the way in which

um I am lied about really consistently

like as far as if you were if you were

lied about and that is unjustified

definitionally it is a lie

if

right now you can establish that you've

been lied about I would be seems like

these kids pretty often honey I know you

caught me cheating on you and I'd be

happy to discuss these allegations

they get to be excused because you just

you've decided there's a red line I've

crossed a red line into being sorry a

Super Chat was funny

I've crossed the red line into being a

bad person and now pretty much like all

bets are off right

you're aligning yourself with a country

that is in a war of aggression against

another country that is not in a word of

aggression with it you know what yeah

here's the thing Sunday

um Carl Schmidt was a Nazi okay yeah so

were all the other German conservative

Revolution thinkers but somehow that

didn't preclude

left-wing Continental thinkers from

seriously interrogating their work and

taking it seriously

yeah but the reason why they were Nazis

is because they were deeply cynical men

who wanted to keep their positions in

Germany

um Carl Smith had total contemption it

doesn't matter

it does matter the point is the bear

fact of them being uh

baddies from the perspective of of like

the the the liberal hegemony that

followed

um the defeat of the Nazis

um does not by itself valorize every

single thinker who happens to have some

toxic or cynical position at any given

point you are not Carl Schmidt my friend

no I'm not saying I am but it's in

contrast to Carl Schmidt the fact that I

support Russia somehow makes it

impossible to in good faith Sunday I

think you have a problem no it doesn't

however you were supporting Russia in

bad faith

um then it absolutely does justify them

dismissing you elsewhere life is too

short there are other people to read and

pay attention to

no it simply doesn't that's just not

true

simply doesn't what I wasn't really

because because what if my views on

Russia are part of a holistic

going back a little bit it doesn't what

what are you talking about it doesn't

justify the other views people decide to

have

with respect to what with respect it

doesn't it doesn't need to like they're

just dismissing you they don't care

about you there are other people to

respond to you've been himself for

example yeah that's the thing you can't

really dismiss I don't think it's

grounds for dismissal that someone has a

contrary view than you do about the

Russia Ukraine because you may not want

to hear this Sunday well it's not the

it's not the contrary

pretty confident in saying most of the

world vaguely shares my impression and

view of that conflict I believe your

confidence I I do not I do not think

that's true

you don't think it's true that most of

the world agrees with me

if you go I don't I don't think it's

true that most the world agrees with you

it also would not matter work around on

the streets of Mumbai or any major city

in China if you go to Cairo if you go to

uh Beirut if you go to you know if you

go to uh some random place in Brazil you

go anywhere in the world Sunday of these

non-european places and you which is the

majority of the World by the way you go

to

um you know

you go to Addis Ababa or something and

you ask a random person on the street

hey what do you think I've never heard

of that place before in Ethiopia okay

you ask a random person what they think

about the Ukraine situation and you know

what they're gonna say they're gonna say

it's about time someone taught the West

hmm yeah interesting that is you know

you know you know where I you know where

I didn't get my degree in political

science from some random person in

Ethiopia but you have to acknowledge

it's a very common sentiment at least

sure and and on the U.N we know this

correctly most of the world

tends to not vote alongside

the International Community quote

unquote which is just the Western World

on these more newer resolutions to

condemn Russia and oppose Russia most of

the world continues to open up relations

with Russia most of the world it has no

problem whatsoever

and continuing to do business with

Russia

where they can circumvent U.S sanctions

so this is a sentiment that is I mean

the security Council includes Russia and

China

well I'm talking about the other member

states of the United Nations where

they're allowed to vote in uh yeah

so

it's pretty clear that my view is not

I'm not just some horrible anti-social

aberration that might be the case for

liberal leftists no I think I think

there's a lot of money in in

conservative and writing politics and

social media and I think you're doing

the exact same stick that Chad logic is

do you think found a lot of success

Destiny's done the same thing sure sure

yeah do you think I've made more or less

money than I would have if I continue to

just be a

non-controversial leftist if I was just

a leftist who is like aggressive and

yelled a lot

I'm pretty sure I would be at 500 000

subscribers right now why don't you try

but objectively the rate of my growth

when I was less controversial was higher

than it is now my dude vosh is in the

500 000 subscribers right now and that's

exactly what he was doing clearly that

wouldn't no it's not no it's not because

I don't want to be superficial but I

think there's more of an appeal when it

comes to someone like me

then vosh when it's fulfilling this kind

of like you know red lib you don't know

what a red lip is like you know Marxist

learning this yes but still politically

correct still saying things that are

socially acceptable yeah yeah not not

really not really willing to go Beyond

stock Dem in terms of their radicalness

once they reach a certain in terms of

their cultural views but still you know

defending China still doing all that

stuff but not like

not in a way that is

a considered coded I don't think China I

think wash is pretty uh pretty critical

of China I know I'm not talking about

Walsh

I've never been vosh I've always been

for people who don't like vosh but

there's a huge huge contingent there's a

huge audience there's a huge Niche out

there of people who want to be more

tankies quote unquote right but are just

still committed to the kind of like

social liberalism and

turning my back on that probably did

harm my growth if anything

and I'm sitting in a place believe it or

not Sunday where

I'm not this turn it's at least right

now has not paid off if I'm grifting off

of the right has not paid off

the fact that I am reaching primarily

right I don't know dude you're you're

you're you're very yelly when it comes

to people like socialism done left and

perspective philosophy but your tone

gets soft like uh like a mother singing

a lullaby to a babe in a crib when

you're talking to someone like Keith

Woods that has not been lost on me I

think I think I think you know I would

say I think you know where the I think

you know where the police resistance

lies no what did Keith Woods say to

disrespect me why shouldn't I just have

a conversation with someone as a fellow

human being with someone who regards

non-whites as a barbarous including me

including including the people to which

I had belonged but I can have the good

faith of allowing him to have that as a

kind of uh belief

that I have to regret that's the price

you said on your dignity my friend no

it's not no it's not

no it's not having a wrong impersonal

view that is prejudiced let's say

Lebanese people there's a difference

when you have a vague so-called

impersonal impression oh Lebanese people

are inferior to me that doesn't

intimidate me that view doesn't

intimidate me but when you start to

treat me as inferior because of that uh

soak so-called impersonal view that you

have of course I can retaliate but Keith

Woods didn't do that right so I don't

really care what

all range of possible so you're you're

fine with them you're fine with him

disparaging the manifold of people no

I'm not and he didn't provided he's

polite to you in particular he didn't

disparage

um that doesn't stick in your that

doesn't stick

if you recall where the debate debate

got the most heated by the way it's when

they tried to kind of discourage somalis

right saying they didn't want them as

their neighbors

and I found it necessary to point out

what pers and I was I wouldn't have to

resort to emotions either by the way

Sunday because unlike many of you I

don't think these right-wing people or

audiences are inherently evil I think

it's the deficiencies of the left

that has

LED them to that path which you

elaborate draw the line of causality I'm

curious yeah I think leftism is just a

bunch of bullshit and people can see

it's and it's inauthentic and the reason

it's inauthentic is because leftism

categorically are we talking about the

online left are we talking about Vash or

what are we talking about American

leftism

American leftism in terms of the options

on the table as far as What ideologies

people will draw from for understanding

the world right

and it seems like leftists are more

concerned with fulfilling some kind of

abstract moral criteria of I want things

to be more fair I want things to be more

right rather than actually trying to

reflect how the world actually is in the

actual state of the world and when it

comes to that right Wingers

slow down rules slow down a sec what do

you mean by that

it seems like leftists are willing to

oftentimes sacrifice facts in the name

of

um what is ideologically or morally

convenient

you have a do you have a particular case

in mind

uh what about differences between men

and women how many leftists will

concede to the obvious factual

disparities these statistical

disparities for example

between men and women what you mean by

men and women doesn't it

I I don't know what it could possibly

mean no you're you're unfamiliar with

the concept of gender as being distinct

from sex

for me entertaining that right now

what do you mean

you brought it up this is your example

right so when I mean men and women I

mean the vague coincidence for whatever

reason between people's gender identity

and their sex

what gives rise to that coincidence are

you asking for my view or what

your leftist view or what I'm asking for

your view

I think gender identity is just pretty

broadly the cultural expression of sex

that's clearly not true because the

reason why we have to distinguish gender

from sex is because these do not

correlate in those cases no they

supposedly don't correlate in a very

small minority of cases

well in in practice I don't think the

examples that the examples that emerge

in in time so far that we have seen I

don't think have overwhelmingly been

consistent I don't know what Society

pressures them to correspond to I don't

think exceptions disprove generalities I

don't think it's wrong exceptions do

disprove universalities though but no

one is making claim I don't I'm on a

dietitian I don't believe in absolute

universalities

why are we even why are we even talking

about sex and gender then this is

Trivial does talking about uh sex or

gender have to imply absolute

universalities even in nature there are

no apps if you if you if you make a

statement to the effect

um that someone is a Degen or someone is

deluded or what have you whatever you

word you like on the grounds that they

behave in a manner that is not

consistent with the qualities that you

associate with their genital set then

that is going to rest on the basis of a

universal claim that that genital set

determines what their appropriate

behavior is no even that statement rests

on a lot of assumptions that for example

the reasons

yeah well the reason for example I mean

I didn't even say that and you can't

even say that on YouTube so I'm not even

sure why you're bringing it up

it's not something that I could even say

even if I wanted I mean I'm still here I

don't know about you but you can't

Advance something you can

um affirm in the positive on YouTube

Stephen Crowder strongly disagrees he's

fully demonetized is he actually I'm not

sure that's true hang on let's see

I'm not denying it I'm just curious is

Stephen Crowder demonetized

his channel was remonetized after

YouTube said Crowder adjust his behavior

and content and it was demonetized again

in March 2021 with upload suspended for

a week after violating YouTube's

presidential election Integrity policy

unrelated that's unfortunate well I

guess we'll just never know

okay

well in any case

um

I I think

here's the thing Sunday I think um well

you're probably unwilling to understand

is that

and I I I please implore anyone right

this is why I'm suspicious of uh content

creator who hasn't been somehow

extremely canceled in some kind of way

you could be innocent just just assume

this just assume this you could be

innocent you can be honest you can be

righteous right

okay

at least by some kind of internal

internally consistent Criterion you

could just be an honest righteous

innocent person

and if you go against the status quo

while you're on the internet

for some mysterious reason people find

ways to malign your character to such a

degree that what they show you of

yourself on the internet becomes

fundamentally unrecognizable

they make you out to be something that

is so radically at odds with what you

have actually done even on the internet

itself it's fucking scary

and that's what people like you are not

willing to accept memory if memory if

memory does serve just as as an example

you think so there is uh are you are you

familiar with a book called we have

never been modern Yeah by Bruno LaTour

yeah so you had you had someone in your

chat earlier

um say something the effect of like

Bruno tour is Right we've never been

monitored and you flattered insulted him

in in in your chat for that and in a way

that is very easily parodied

because he because he disrespectfully

said bye bye like in a really dismissive

way before he said anything

he wasn't like oh Haas I disagree with

you on this speaking he wasn't that's

not what happened dude stop being stop

saying dumb shit anyway

um I don't even know how you recall that

but anyway neither to be totally honest

with you yeah well you managed to recall

that but none of your actual objections

anyway

um

what I'm trying to say is that

a lot of people like you I would say

have the bias of the crowd must be right

if if Twitter hates this person oh no no

we're at number 101 right I think it's

true though if Twitter hates this person

if the crowd hates this person there

must be some kind of legitimate reason

for that have you have you seen them

have you seen the numbers of like

subscribers for right wing figures on

Twitter it's it's overwhelmingly in

their favorites yeah Alex I can actually

speak to that yeah right wing

um very rarely there are a few

exceptions like Fuentes is an exception

but rarely rare very rarely

do right wing

personalities acquire a the quality of

parasociality

very rarely right B so it's usually just

passive support

um I mean like Jordan Peterson very

rarely Bureau very powerful there are a

few exceptions again the extreme right

is the exception like Bap Twitter right

Bronze Age pervert that whole crowd

um that's a name I haven't heard in a

while yeah

where the right wing is not based in any

kind of universally accessible discourse

so there are no universally shared

conventions as far as right-wing

politics fear about people's reputations

that's why it's really hard

for cancel culture to work over there

because no one is that invested in this

kind of shared Universal discourse about

someone's reputation or how someone

should be regarded morally in the first

place that's no because they're all

selling the same snake oil so they're

standards for entry are like dinosaur

bones you can interpret it that way if

you want that's a fact but you you pay

attention to things they say they're

insane okay again

but what was the original point

I'm stumped As You Are

yeah because I don't really think you're

following with this right

the the original point is that

you could be

you could be like a uh you know

a passerby who's viewing this person

who's getting so maligned and hated

and you could be the type of person who

goes you know what

there must be a legitimate reason for

that the crowd can't be wrong I trust

the crowd I trust the open Society

there's no way that this person is so

hated and so maligned

and and

um it's not unfair

and that is a fundamental left-wing bias

um

and that's one that you think that you

are above

yes I do actually good I'm glad you say

that so when are we arranging the debate

between you and Demon mama

you me and you

you went demon mom in particular I don't

have I don't have the kind of Alliant

reputation I'm I'm sort of I mean I I

would not be opposed to why are you

bringing that up it's gonna be funny

I think again again

it's a vague illusion

to some kind of like hierarchy of

reputations that exists on the left and

I'm not sure

has why should that happen I think I

think generally we're Beyond reputation

at this point because like what you

could point to

because that almost every single person

who criticizes you just so you criticize

them as an equally you know tainted

reputation

um almost everybody in this sphere has a

company not nobody I don't think so I

think I am probably

regarded I think I'm probably one of the

most unfairly maligned personalities on

the internet everybody thinks that about

themselves but I I think in my case it's

pretty if you actually look into it it's

pretty indisputable once again you're

defending a regime that has killed

children

okay that's not a lot of people have

done so you know what's interesting

Sunday that's your reason and yet

the animosity toward me is not

different in content and it's for

multiple reasons that's your reason

there's other reasons too uh some

there's there's there could be a person

who disagrees with me over the Sinnoh

Albanian split

and they will treat me the same way you

do

so in content

whoever threw shit on me and you know

it's strange Sunday because this only

really began

when it started to become clear that I

was starting to impact the cpusa

internally and there started to be a big

internal debate within the cpusa around

the fall of 2021 and all of a sudden

it's so very strange all of a sudden all

these astroturfed tweets maligning me

and and

shitting on me basically I don't know

the first thing about that all I know is

you go no let me explain we're having

Blue Heron and boobs Sunday Sunday I'm

in Sunday Sunday I'm like an in-cell

misogynist guy right

are you that's unfortunate no but that's

probably what you think of me most

people think of me that way right I

don't think about you at all if I'm

totally honest yeah but that's your

vague impression right oh

no no I think I think you're I think

you're a failed law student who plays a

character on the internet for donations

that's brilliant that's a beautiful

example oh my God I'm so glad you said

that dude

I even forgot about that one

so let's talk about that

now just because you disagree with me on

Russia and Ukraine is it really fair to

say I'm a failed law student

things are completely separate things

but why am I understand I understood I

understood you to drop out now me

personally if I was a successful law

student I wouldn't be hitting up YouTube

before I had my degree but that's just

me I actually didn't drop out though

that's the thing oh really so you

graduated congratulations no again

has it ever occurred to you that you

could take a leave of absence

so long leave absence my friend

and do you know so you're not familiar

with it again you're maligning me I mean

if I was less controversial I don't

think you would call me a failed law

student if I supported Ukraine you'd

probably not call me that right you'd

probably yeah if like once again if you

were not cheerleading a regime that

killed a bunch of them yeah then I

wouldn't be a field law student anymore

I probably would give you the benefit of

the doubt but unfortunately that's not

the world we live in lecture you know

what's crazy Sunday is like

it's almost like retro casually

facts about me start to change based on

what you're looking at is arching

political positions that I take like if

I support Russia it's like Schrodinger's

law student if I support Russia I'm a

failed law student if I don't support

Russia now you can just admit that I

actually

completed my first year of law school at

the same time that I started streaming

and law school was getting in the way of

my streaming uh time hours and I was

growing so rapidly that I decided to

take a one-year leave of absence in law

school to see if I could continue being

successful streaming thing you would

know that while I was in law school I

was suffering from an extreme level of

clinical insomnia I was extremely

miserable doing laundry it wasn't my

life

I understand wasn't my passion wasn't my

vocation I hated it I hated the American

legal system I hated having to take

positions I didn't believe and just look

look dude just just own it not everybody

can hack law school it's not a slight

against your character

I completed my first year of Law School

with no problem while I was streaming

full I was streaming full time you said

you were dealing with you said you were

dealing with like a crippling insomnia

like that doesn't sound like no problem

to me yeah once again I'm not that's

that's not something you're blame worthy

for Sunday that doesn't make you weak

that wasn't because that wasn't because

law school was too difficult for me it

was because I wasn't doing what I

believed I should be doing

you say so but you don't have your law

degree so I guess we won't know

so if I go and conveniently if I stop

streaming and stop being uh active that

much on the internet and go get my law

degree Schrodinger's law student then

you'll say something else to malign me

right

well you'll have uh I'll say the exact

same thing as I've said tonight but in

addition you'll have a law degree

how's that so I I I'm a so I'm not a

failed law student anymore I'm a what

I'm a failed streamer then you know what

I mean like I mean you might you might

be again again no matter what that's

what I'm talking about it's a rich make

a normal without cracking a few eggs

leftist

and Destiny's included in this I include

him in the left because they behave the

same way your reputation is literally

based on

nothing factual it's based on whether

you're the in-group or the out group

right and if you're out British or my

reputation is based on making a bunch of

autistic video essays of a Carl Schmidt

in Dead Space but okay again but

fundamental facts about your character

become maligned whether or not they're

true or not having nothing to do with

their factual validity solely because

people assume positions you disagree

with I think that's unjust I think

that's fundamentally unjust

and that's why we aren't we aren't

talking about positions like oh I agree

with Richard wardu's critique of

Descartes distinction between the the uh

mind and no we're talking about the

positions that actually matter in

objective reality and the information so

the ones the ones in which on the basis

of minimal information you decide to

truly decide that we know for a certain

fact has decided for selfish reasons to

bomb uh schools

you know what I do I've seen the bodies

sure but you know this with certain fact

and yet it's not allowed to be subjected

to any scrutiny so it's kind of a

paradox I don't think you're subjecting

them to scrutiny I think you're taking a

position of scrutiny looking because

that's a niche that you can fill and I

don't I don't think you're subjecting

your presumptions about the conflict of

scrutiny because you literally claim

that you need two weeks to do that

well no that's that's actually precisely

acknowledging that scrutiny takes time

scrutiny is expensive it's why you don't

do it but and yet this is the problem

Sunday you are engaging in you're

drawing out normative consequences of

something you have not justified

I don't believe I am called upon to

justify a critique of somebody for

killing children but you don't know if

you don't know how can you actually

start taking actions against someone

this is exactly by the way this is

exactly hang on what don't I know if you

don't know everything about the Russia

Ukraine conflict how can you take action

against someone in relation to it

oh Haas is evil because of something I

don't know

how can you actually do harm to another

human being you're not fully certain of

your position that this indicts them as

a bad person

no Haas is evil because he's

cheerleading a regime that we do know is

killing children again that's that's if

you want that's what we're going to call

the synthetic statement here right the

synthetic statement is not a priori it's

not you're not talking about space and

time

you're talking about a synthetic

statement that requires some way uh it

has to be subject to scrutiny by default

right in order that's not what that's

not what that means but we can yeah it

kind of is what it means it's really not

so yeah synthetic statements are

statements that result from some kind of

non-given

whatever right pretty much is what it is

hello

yeah I'm still there yeah am I wrong

with mild aneurysm you you are a little

bit but it's not important

why am I wrong

synthetic statements are not true by

virtue of some kind of like axiomatic

internal reason like

you know

Bachelors are unmarried

it's not a synthetic statement

because it's true by virtue of the

definition of what a bachelor is okay

something that's contingent that could

be subjected to some kind of

other possibility is what's synthetic so

for example if you say that Bachelor is

wear pink shoes it's not inherent to the

definition of a bachelor it's a result

of a contingent observation in reality

so yes

of course that requires scrutiny

is that wrong or what

you lost me rewind a little bit what

were we what were we moving into this

for

we're moving into this because

you are your statement that I'm gonna

bracket it that you're evil because

you're cheerleading Russia doing X

horrible evil things for X horrible

reasons that's exactly what you can't be

certain of if you can't subject it to

certainty

it's not inherent in the definition of

Russia for example that you can draw out

all these conclusions about what Russia

is doing you need to actually subject

that to some kind of scrutiny before

you're going to draw out morally

relevant consequences in terms of how

you treat other human beings

once again you're operating under the

same information that everybody else's

you saw a country aggressing on another

one bombing hospitals and civilian

centers causing Mass death etc etc

needlessly so don't you think you jumped

on or jumped on propaganda

maybe maybe this is maybe you're just

drunk and you somehow can't fathom but

you're not drunk because when you're

sober you have the same uh you have the

same prejudice

but don't you think don't you think it's

possible for something to be factually

the same scenario but it can be spinned

in completely opposite ways what makes

your way of spinning what makes your

narrative Superior to Russia's narrative

I'm not cheerleading killing children

Russia as saying you're doing that

because you are allowing the Ukrainian

military to continue doing Russia's

Russia's Russia's tanks are in Ukrainian

territory

to protect children from Ukraine they're

Russia's tanks are in Ukraine to protect

children from what they will do to them

if Ukraine doesn't let the tanks roll in

huh no to protect them from the regular

shelling of

the lot people in the dawn bass why are

shells being exchanged at all

because the people in the dawn bass

don't because Russia invaded

and gave artificial support to a

seditious that's not true because that

seditious group is based in the general

will that's true of the people the

general the the general will that needs

the material support of a foreign

Invader yeah that's that's yeah so was

it some general will so did the did the

Continental Army need the material

support of the French I think history

books will tell you they did

doesn't matter

just because a

people disposed of a general will are

receiving material support doesn't mean

that that is reducible to that well no

what it means is that the general will

that you're referring to is not the

general will of a dawn best the general

rule of the Russian no it's not sure

broadly speaking don't want to live

under what they think what of what

generality is the will has if it

requires a massive foreign Force to

assert itself

do you think a general will necessarily

has to have the million you answer the

question

I'm going to ask you the question do you

think a general but I asked you a

question can you answer it you can say

you can that's fine if you can't your

question is can there be a general will

if it requires no my question was of

what generality is the will if it

requires a massive foreign Force to

assert itself

it doesn't

of What Not

it doesn't need Russia to assert its

will it needs Russia to protect that

then Russia invaded needlessly did it

not that's the immediate upshot of that

statement you're drunk dude you're drunk

think about what you're saying logically

and don't interrupt me they don't need

Russia to assert their will they need

Russia for their will to be defended

they've asserted their will very clearly

in their refusal and the establishment

of the Donetsk and lugon's people's

republics that was the assertion of

their General will as far as the ability

to protect for those were those

established as a result of Russia's

incursion into Ukrainian territory no

really no really so those just happen

spontaneously in Russia just

coincidence just a coinkydink they

happen to be rolling tanks into Ukraine

during that time

what what do you mean of course it was

related to the broader sentiment of

wanting to join Russia yes

where are we where are we having this

conversation modern day debate two weeks

okay well I guess you can decide when

you want to have it

there are balls in your court my friend

okay I can have it in one week well you

need two minimum

I like two two's nice how about one and

a half

okay well

we can have it uh the 20th if you need

to

let's see what is that 20th

oh that's a Monday

Mondays okay how about Sunday the 19th

wow now we'll do the 20th

um we'll uh we'll talk with James and uh

what's the what's the topic dealer's

Choice it's all of the topics that you

are not presently equipped to debate

about uh how about we pick how about we

pick three and let's let's try to find

okay happy medium okay Maga communism

what do you mean like the existence of

Maga communism

the the the theory behind it

as uh as

Given In The Stream that you're

currently

or my sub stack

or your subject can you give me a link

to that

uh you could just look up the rise of

Mario communism on Google will be the

first result well you haven't you have

me on uh you have me on discords why

don't you just send me that and that

will that will equip me to address that

it's called the rise of Maga communism

I'm sure your mods can link it to you

eyes Maga

communism okay so that's that's one uh

we got two three more

the Russia Ukraine conflict

Russia Ukraine

particular thing about that uh you think

you've been

unjustly maligned on the basis of your

position basically that do you want to

make that yeah sure subject

all right reputation slurred

and finally

um

it should be uh

trying to trying to remember it

it should be uh

how about Dugan

um

yes but there is also something else

the Russia Ukraine conflict and um

okay yeah we could just do what you said

and then Dugan

how about we just do the first two okay

we'll do uh we'll we'll Loop them both

under you have been unjustly maligned on

the basis of

your political philosophy such as it is

being uncharitably interpreted

and on the basis of a knee-jerk reaction

to your defense of a child murdering

Mass raping regime Fair

yeah it's definitely something I'm going

to have on Rumble holy fuck okay yeah

uh you you're not it's not gonna be

called that because the burden of proof

is on YouTube

um

demonstrate the validity of your

accusations against Russia in the first

place well I was gonna say I remember

what I was gonna say it's gonna be

part of the second topic

whether or not I'm a disingenuous actor

or a bad faith actor whether or not my

views on Russia are not based on a

pretty consistent holistic worldview or

a if you want to call it a principle

that I have never deviated from since

launching the infrared show with whose

tagline was always Marxism leninism in

the age of multi-polarity and the

post-covet world where I have

consistently defended Russia and Putin

it was my causes belly in my first

debate with vosh you can recall how I

bring up Russia and I bring up Putin

I can't actually I don't believe I'm

walking it was literally there in my

first debate with wash I'm not a grifter

I'm not jumping on any convenient thing

the very first stream I believe when I

had two viewers dude

it's my first videos my I have done

interviews with uh Ilya Medvedev who was

in the donbass I've done videos with um

Katya kosbeck to talk about Russia and

my appreciation for Dugan and Russian

civilization and Putin some of my first

videos on my channel are defense of

Putin against liberal criticisms my

first

saying that I'm a grifter and I've kind

of sold out it's just so inconsistent

with the facts but I'm sure you need two

weeks to prepare for that

well I mean personally

if I was if you had refused and I was

forced to commit now I'd be perfectly

happy with calling you a grifter from

time immemorial

but uh okay what made me a grifter

though

on the basis of insufficient evidence on

the basis of insufficient motive you

took on the cause of a foreign Invader

of a foreign country that was killing

but wait hold on you can talk about

Russia's election was itself an Empire

by the way a capitalist Empire okay sure

sure

but you have to admit you can claim that

all you want I can you can yeah but you

would be on it'd be baseless to claim it

by the way but you can you can claim

that

but the facts stand that I do have cause

it is consistent with the world view I

have espoused since my very first stream

on YouTube

I once again I I do not spend my every

waking moment chronically I know dude's

good what was what was okay then what's

the description on my YouTube channel

I don't know it's been there forever

Marxism leninism in the age of

multi-polarity in the postcode world you

say so what do you think that means

I'm quite sure I don't care

we are meeting on the 20th

okay

I'll see you then you said you can

justify that I'm a grifter you can't

dude you can't

see I've never changed I've never

changed the only thing you're not

required to change some people are uh

some people are corrupt when they get

started I don't know then you then you

should have uh crucified me on the cross

of corruption instead of switching up

and deciding all bets are off because uh

I took a position in contemporary World

politics that you weren't comfortable

with maybe you're right

yeah but again it's Schrodinger's

reputation at first I was a good guy and

now I'm the worst guy in the world

thanks

do you think he talks to people IRL like

this I can hear both the cholesterol and

glasses in his voice

I don't know but um I mean you can

probably hear the glasses of my voice I

was chewing on them earlier if you

if you are I I don't think you can say

you're minimally committed to Justice

your mentally committed to any righteous

position a position of virtue basically

when you die on this fucking Hill that

yeah

I'm just gonna attack you laws because

it's convenient to and everyone else is

doing it so I'm safe in doing it which

which Hill is this precisely

when I

um started covering the Ukraine war

uh Destiny

probably not even personally probably

some State Department or CIA should he

threw his whole fucking community at me

immediately to stop me right because I

was growing pretty fast on Twitch

and it was like operation destroy Haas

infrared like for what I didn't do any

nothing personally against Destiny he

was someone clearly told him I think

I've been too hard on him

sorry maybe I've been too hard on them

yeah I think you should probably uh

reconcile because

that's but but you were his ass kisser

back then and you started attacking me I

was Destiny's ask user back then really

yeah and you started attacking me you

joined in on me you joined in with

Destiny and Dylan Burns

because you were basically socially

aligned were you promise I'm pretty sure

your treatment for your alcoholism and

come to the debate 100 you would you

attacked Destiny and Dylan Burns

afterwards right later I'm pretty sure I

attacked Dylan Burns way in advance

can I attack Destiny later on I I have

no I have no no I remember what happened

you I I have no friends

back when I was back when I was on the

right I used to despise Destiny so he

was a weird Weasley guy with the voice

like stretch from Casper Friendly Ghost

was organized I do I usually do have

this experience where you know I will

deal with um

Destiny's orbiters who's our his ass

kissers basically and they'll come at me

and then later on they'll have a feud

with Destiny and break with Destiny ohaz

I was always against Destiny and then

you think I forgive them I don't right

so

you just told me for example ohaz I

appreciate the way you confronted chub

logic because you have beautiful child

logic now where were you it's a shame

it's a shame it came from you but I did

but where but where were you before when

you alongside shot logic we're all

joining the chorus of whatever to malign

me and attack me well anyway

that's an excellent question I'm quite

sure I can't remember what were we

saying

you're just with all of my enemies

well I mean you have a lot of enemies my

friend you're right I do and you'd think

a grifter would be smarter than that if

they were a grifter then Peterson has a

lot of enemies Stephen Crowder has a lot

of enemies Destinies no no

I in contrast to Jordan Peterson and

Stephen Crowder have far more haters

than I do supporters and I know my

supporters are the most devoted

in the world right well that's just luck

of the draw that's not that's not I have

the most extremely devoted supporters

because they see the truth and it makes

them extremely devoted to me but the

truth is yes I have far far more haters

than I do supporters far more

and if I was a fucking grifter I would

be more like these milk toast Hakeem

second thought people that would never

ever say something that would get

Twitter to be mad at me or pissed off at

me you see you think you think second

thought is

absolutely yeah second thought made

videos condemning North Korea as a

dictatorship and now he's since the wind

is going in the direction of ml as the

new trend and he also joined the

Communist Party mysteriously

you haven't observed that

no but I haven't really been paying

attention either so would you agree

Democratic socialism was a trend

Democratic socialism which was a trend

uh when are we talking

like uh 2016 to 20 to up to covid

basically oh you're arresting the wrong

person that was the right wing then what

I was on the right then I was actually

friends with Keith Woods until fairly

recent months DSA was like a thing right

pretty trendy

Hassan piker

it's a ring a bell I never I never got

the appeal of Assad okay well it was a

trend

and a lot of that is starting to change

into ml

I was there first

but it's happening

uh avash is getting hated on all the

time on Twitter and the reason I think

uh you think our team isn't uh ml

Hakeem identifies that way yeah

but you don't think he really is no I

don't

why is that

I think Hakeem is what I would probably

call a base thank you so much

radical Social Democrat but I think

Hakeem is

utilizing the rhetoric of Marxism

leninism

to justify what I would call your milk

toast

wef I will say globalist liberal

politics

but just given the sanction of you know

the uh state of emergency political

dictatorship he's projecting that kind

of politics onto

you know Communist States throughout

history

but it's based in what I consider a

pretty dangerous

almost fascist like

a way of trying to sanction the

increasingly undemocratic dictatorial

powers of liberal countries like for

example Canada

where the Trudeau government started to

freeze the bank accounts of people

involved in the freedom Convoy movement

and so on and so forth and they're kind

of just saying oh yeah that's just like

stalinism so it is it is it is really

spectacular that you're

your uh your your freedom alarm goes off

when a bunch of people are flooding a

pandemic response uh ordinance but not

when tanks are rolling over a border

bombing hospitals barbing bombing

schools causing the the mass Exodus of

civilians yeah I do think it's you I

think War based on a geopolitical

confrontation is not the same as a

government that is uh proclaims to be a

liberal democracy no you think you think

as you think as soon as the government

wants wants territory and land for the

aggrandizement of a Dying old lunatics I

would not describe I would not describe

that as having anything to do with the

circumstances of the Russia Ukraine war

again you're not prepared to actually

have your position scrutinized so just

don't even bring it up

well we will in two weeks I'm a little

bit curious though uh

what do you suppose the reason for the

Russian Ukraine war is then

if I have this one sentence NATO

expansion

you think that you crane wanting to join

NATO and being obliged is a

justification for Russia invading

Ukraine

no if I taste two sentences it's NATO

expansion plus the Civil War in the

donbass

but the Civil War and the dawn bass was

triggered by Russia's incursion to you

not true not true

very true it was triggered by the

unthinkable was the was the maidon

revolution constitutional according to

the Constitution of Ukraine

it's it's a revolution Haas okay sure

the revolution overthrew a leader

poroshenko are you familiar with him

Slayer

he was voted into power do you agree

well she voted into power under a

corrupt system was moreover does the

fact that he was voted into power

um undermine the legitimacy of a

government that follows one's legitimacy

of that one is overthrown by force okay

well don't assume the point I'm trying

to make

where did poroshenko receive the highest

amounts of approval and support

as reflected in the Ukrainian elections

I am entirely certain I don't know and

I'm entirely certain I am entirely

certain that I do know that poroshenko

received the overwhelming

majority of his support

from the russian-speaking donbass

because he was friendlier toward Russia

than the alternative so one half of

Ukraine wants to overthrow him and the

other half sees Paul is that is that one

half of Ukraine

no it's not exactly one half but it's

one part of it what is what is the point

of you saying this

saying one part of Ukraine

supports poroshenko and one part of

Ukraine

uh wants nothing sorry one part of

Ukraine wants to overthrow them and one

part wants nothing to do with the

so-called Revolution

the unity of the territory of Ukraine by

the way

because it was formerly part of the USSR

in which multiple ethnic groups and

language groups coexisted

the social contract that is the

foundation Ukrainian state was the fact

that the Ukrainian state was willing to

be Democratic that people's voted social

contract is the foundation of the

Ukrainian State you mean the Ukrainian

State arose out of a state of nature

you don't have to um get into any stupid

technicality I if you want me to I mean

you brought up the you brought up the

social contract that's your adjustment

I'll break down I'll break down what I

mean by that the acceptance of being

part of a independent Ukrainian State on

part of the other non

Ukrainian speaking groups and ethnic

groups was that it would be a democracy

that their vote would matter they would

have a voice and stake in the system and

that their interests could be reflected

in that state that's the social contract

I'm referring to when that social

contract is if I continue

yeah that is a social contract that's

not a social contract a social contract

in which a people decide that a

government has to reflect and represent

its interests no the social the social

contract no they're just a victory

scheme is a justificatory scheme

for a state that refers the legitimacy

of the state to the internal impulses of

its constituent members that's exactly

what I just said that is not yes it is

it's the justification of the Ukrainian

state and its territorial sovereignty

refers to the impulses of its members

in relation to whether or not their

interests are being reflected

or they have a stake in that state so

yeah it is okay anyway it's what I just

said

that's why no no it's no it's not

because what you're talking about is an

assessment after the fact as to whether

or not they're interested in being

reflected no no no no

when I say there's when I say their

interests are reflected I mean there is

some formal way in which to establish

people's will being reflected by the

state

that doesn't mean their will is always

going to be everyone well yeah but

that's because there's that's why

there's a notion of tacit consent

because if you do not actively Rebel and

choose death over Conformity to the

ordinances of the common of the

Commonwealth again again

um then you have essentially a center to

legitimacy of the state that's that's

the that's the social culture it's a

social it's a social contract because if

you have the right to vote and you

you're you're the right for your vote to

matter and to count right

that means yes the state

can the state can reflect your interests

so sure the state can reflect your

interests if you can vote but the

definition of a social contract is not

that you have the right to vote the

social contract is you play ball with

the community and then benefit from

doing so that's that's that's what that

means okay it's not at the level people

the people in the dawn Bass played ball

like the the notion of a social contract

this is a pedantic kind of like

pointless thing to say because you

brought up social contract might do it

it is a social contract it's objectively

a social contract it's objectively not

you're talking about something else

dude

dude the people of you eastern Ukraine

are playing ball with the community of

Ukraine because they benefit by having

their interests represented somehow by

the Ukrainian sovereign state they can

vote right well that's not normal but

but the the social contract is not

expected this is the bad faith I'm

talking about no no no you're just

you're just no you're just actually

you're just uninformed about what social

contract certainly is Sunday no let's

break this down I'm glad you're prepared

for this when did I say that voting was

the only form of a social contract that

that's the only interest

relevantage I didn't I didn't so when

you said oh yeah

I didn't suggest that you were saying

that I didn't say a social contract in

general is when people are allowed to

vote I'm saying that could be an example

of a factor necessary for a social

contract but it's actually not a factor

necessary for a social contract once

again the notion of the social contract

is introduced no no it actually it

actually it actually can't be because

the notion of a social contract is

operating at a level specifically this

is why it's introduced by Thomas Hobbs

to defend a monarchical system voting is

not a condition of the social contract I

don't think Locke has a notion of a

social contract too

walk does have a notion of Association

so and Rousseau does as well

yes but it does not rely on voters no no

hang on no no you're mistaken

um lock and Rousseau do not rely upon

there being a vote for there to be a

social contract the social contract is

the Justified

plurality of a social contract

doesn't exclude the possibility of the

ability to vote and participating no but

it's it's function in a theory is as a

justification for the legitimacy of the

voting process itself you're just yes

and the voting process cannot be

legitimate for example if a certain and

this is not always the case but it's the

case in Ukraine if a certain portion of

the population either can't vote or

their vote doesn't count

why does their vote not count what are

you talking about because there was a

fucking coup they elected a guy and that

guy was overthrown illegally according

to the Constitution which was the basis

of the social contract that allowed

these people to be loyal to the

Ukrainian state if if you see did he did

he not enact violence on the Deimos

prior to the revolution

that's highly contested

well that's an important contest though

if indeed he was if indeed if indeed if

indeed the executive power as a general

no if indeed the the executive power in

Ukraine if indeed the executive power in

Ukraine was inflicting lethal violence

on the people to remain in this station

against the Constitution then that is

this is the problem with being arrogant

Sunday because you're not actually

educated Electro claiming you are

because I'm not claiming anything in

order for you to establish violence I

claim I claim absolutely nothing I am

saying if Sonny let me finish why are

you so scared to hear me finish I fear

nothing notice how notice how I never

interrupt you because I actually want to

hear the dumb shit you're going to say

so I can respond you do the contrary you

don't want to hear what I have to say

because you can't respond no I just also

want to hear myself I'm just yeah Sunday

in order for you to establish the people

as a general subjectivity you have to

establish that that violence epitomized

a general violence on the people in

general so so for example can you can

you can you slow down just hang on hang

on yeah yeah so for example right try

rest fading try restating that don't use

an example just for example I'll restate

it with an example when a state locks up

criminals or takes action against a

violent mob on the street that doesn't

necessarily mean they're engaging in

Lethal violence on the people quote

unquote hang on hang on hang on you have

to be really careful here though this is

why I want you to restay the thing

before you start bringing up the example

because it is not sufficient to Simply

say that the part of the Deimos that the

executive power is persecuting against

the Constitution is Criminal therefore

it's okay

to to to to then use that as a blanket

justification for now a foreign a

separate political entity and occurring

dude dude watch the Russian State

absolutely Sunday Russia Russia by

itself is an Empire that's not a single

natural community that emerged out of

nature okay I'm gonna be calm I'm gonna

try to be calm but I want to explain to

you why that frustrates me so we are

just talking about the circumstances of

the legitimacy of the quote-unquote

Revolution here for the people in the

dawn bass now you're talking about the

Russian Smo

why are you have to jump around let's

focus on the people on the dawn back

it's a big it's a big world and

unfortunately the dawn bass itself is

not something that simply insists upon

itself as as a a Sunday the thing is the

people generating the element in this

discussion the social contract that kept

the people in the dawn Bass the social

contract did not keep anybody in the

dawn bass anything stop using the word

social contractors doesn't mean what you

think it means the people of the

donbass's social contract with the

Ukrainian state was suspended when

their elected representative was

overthrown in an unconstitutional

formally invalid way

okay was he overthrown after he was

attacking his own people with lethal

Force even if he did attack rioters on

the street with evil force which is

contested why are they they're they're

rioters as soon as it's convenient for

you but you're perfectly happy to to fly

your flag in favor of Putin rolling

tanks over Sunday packed with people he

had to pull off the street because his

own Sunday even even if

he did do that he doesn't say in the

Ukrainian Constitution that quelling a

riot is grounds for the dismissal of the

president

so what

well it's well the Constitution is the

only if he's if he's if he's

characterizing attacking against members

of the Deimos for exercising their

constitutional right to protest but the

Ukrainian Constitution is the only

binding document that's protecting the

rights pause pause

I thought I thought you were like a

Marxist or a leninist or something like

you're you're just you're just a radical

statist like you're a conservative

what's funny you know what's funny is

that uh Adam something brought up the

same pathetic argument in our debate I

don't know who that is yet he brought up

the same argument he said well aren't

you a revolutionary you simply believes

in the overthrow of the state well if

I'm just giving a description as far as

why a people don't want to be a part of

a state anymore because it again the

state is avowing itself as a liberal

democracy I am not actually a liberal uh

statist but when your state calls me you

kind of you kind of are though because

Russia still assumes the liberal form of

the state in Russia Russia is invading

Sunday shut the fuck up don't interrupt

me and I'll explain why okay no you're

cut out for a second what were you

saying don't interrupt me and I'll

fucking explain why was I interrupting

yeah you were okay no no I I'm sorry I'm

you're cutting out a little bit what

were you saying again repeat that

Dan you're so scared of an actual like

dispute over this it's crazy

again I'm not a liberal status what's

going on with the audio here hang on

this is weird can he not hear me

is he lying guys go on his stream is he

actually lying the fuck

again I'm just gonna say it anyway fuck

is going on he's trolling okay

hello hello yeah he's trolling all right

that's fine I'm gonna explain it anyway

I'm not a radical liberal statist

precisely because if the form of

sovereignty was a liberal democracy why

can't I hear anything yeah if Ukraine

was a liberal democracy and then it

foregoes its promise all bets are off

the people in the dawn bass don't have

to care about Ukraine's democracy they

can indeed join Russia oh God damn it

there we go you can they can form their

own hang on hang on rewind a little bit

sorry I I I lost you at yeah okay I know

where you lost me I remember so it was

it was it was like two minutes ago

liberal stateism I'm not a liberal

status because all I'm trying to say is

that on its own terms when the liberal

state

suspends the terms of its own

sovereignty all bets are off

that's all I'm saying when the liberal

State suspends the terms of its own

sovereignty

Yeah by what mechanism does it do so

through a violent unconstitutional coup

hang on hang on slow down cowboy so the

liberal state

the state

uh upends its own sovereignty

by means of a general Uprising which is

itself

definitionally by being a revolution

itself constitutive of a state

yes the form of the prior State

sovereignty which was a liberal

constitutional democracy

indeed was overthrown

and there's a new form of sovereignty

that's based in a dictatorship or it's

at least based in a coup or a founding

coup which was unconstitutional but so

was the previous one no like once the

where does the Constitution come from

what previous one

exactly where does the Constitution come

from

when Ukraine ceded from the USSR we're

not defending the rights of the

sasanians to Ukraine like what's the was

it the sustainians hang on

something against

when Ukraine left the USSR

instead of eastern Ukraine joining

Russia

instead of Western Ukraine Gideons

that's who it was sorry continue

okay when Ukraine left the USSR it

created a constitution That was supposed

to respect and recognize the rights of

all the people living under it in a

liberal democracy where they would have

the right and the ability to give

expression to their interests through

the political process just fast forward

to the part where this justifies Russia

in particular rolling through with tanks

and bombing hospitals I think it's such

like a pornographic mentality we are

going through an intricate detail the

events and you can't let go of oh Rosa

invaded Ukraine we know but how did they

get there you don't want to actually

we're playing guitars with tanks no no

they didn't get there with tanks they

get they got there with a decades-long

process by NATO

to expand Eastward and use Ukraine

countries like Ukraine well that doesn't

really make sense because NATO is going

Eastward Russia was going Westward so

how does that work how does how does

Russia did not go Westward until after

NATO had so severely expanded Eastward

that Russia has no choice but to put it

okay but NATO's NATO's NATO is a Treaty

Organization like it's in the name so

NATO didn't roll in with tanks Ukraine

wanted to join NATO now explain to me

how Russia's neighbor joining NATO

justifies Russia it doesn't that's why

Russia didn't attack Lithuania Estonia

or the Baltic countries when they joined

NATO but it did attack Crimea

again we're still talking about Ukraine

and they did attack Ukraine it did not

attack Crimea by the way

there was no attack there was no attack

really no there wasn't anyhs Crimea just

had like a general plebiscite and they

just decided hey we're Russia now

actually really yeah really much really

more or less like yeah more and then and

then those soldiers Rolling In Those

were cgi'd in right that was like a big

media campaign that was all uh that was

all that was all fake soldiers rolling

in to defend the soldiers rolling in to

defend the Integrity of an electoral

process is not

uh that's interesting see it's it's not

it's not common in Canada here to see uh

United States tanks rolling in to defend

the Integrity of of an election when we

have it especially in advance of any

kind of uh but right and any any any

kind of any kind of Direction

it's because Canada is not part of some

hyperborean super state that is refusing

to acknowledge Canada's existence

and it's not what and the US doesn't

have a vested interest well Britain's

not doing that either and we are a part

of the Commonwealth so okay again

oh okay what does that have to do with

anything

that's that's the that's the million

dollar question Haas no what is being

part of a commonwealth have to do with

anything your analogy was stupid I I

agree what does being a part of a

commonwealth have to do with any what is

being part of a Treaty Organization have

to do with anything

being part of a um

quote unquote uh military here here's

the question for you yeah here's a

question for you

let's say let's say to destroy Russia

let's say let's say let's say uh NATO uh

gave Ukraine like a whole bunch of tanks

and into your support as as just a gift

when when when uh Ukraine was was

wanting to join NATO right what part of

that justifies uh Russia enrolling in

and bombing civilian centers here's the

do you have like a pornographic brain

can you just not think about things

um that don't fulfill some kind of like

immediate sat like cerebral satisfaction

or something like

follow what you're saying are you trying

to imply that is the only Factor here

are you trying to say it's oh how is

Russia Justified because of this it's

not just because of this that or that

you have to take into account the entire

array of factors

that led Russia to the decision that it

took

just taking one thing in isolation will

not allow you to see the big picture

it's not just that I mean so far what

we've got from you is uh there was a

revolution against the government that

because it happens to be supported

because the people of the Don bass are

an indispensable piece of this puzzle

which you're ignoring you're ignoring

them indispensable piece of what puzzle

what of the puzzle for why there's a

conflict between Russia and Ukraine

because when Ukraine really much of a

puzzle Russia yes there is because when

Ukraine ceded from the USSR it did so

under the pretension that the rights of

those people was going to be recognized

those people did not want to be cut off

from Russia they don't want to be cut

off from people they're indistinguished

them out

dude but that's not what how they view

it though you can claim this stuff about

1930s all you want but the fact that

you're I'm sure you can find some okay

uh

Sunday stop pivoting the factory it's

simpler than this the fact is at the

time of the Soviet Union's disillusion

Ukraine and Russia were part of the same

state the people in the donbass and the

Russian people were not especially

different from each other they were

Paris we're not separate we're not

that's different

that doesn't give America or Britain

hold on license to invade our territory

what dude shut up for a fucking second

just shut the fuck up and let me talk

you just interject sounding stupid

because you don't even know what point

I'm trying to make in 1991 at the time

of the Soviet Union's dissolution you

should drink some water the people in

the dawn pass okay and people in Russia

were not separated from each other I'm

not saying they were fucking similar I'm

saying they literally were part of the

same polity the part of same

civilization they quality of

civilization are the same thing a

civilization isn't a policy a

civilization is a question that's why I

didn't say whether they were the same

what is dude you said you said politics

assumes polity assumes a bounded

political community

I said they were part of the same policy

and civilization what is wrong with that

Sunday a civilization is not a polity

apology is a general term for trying to

talk about a political Community when

we're talking about a long expense of

time or the Constitution

of political forms has changed radically

between them I actually think that's

Sunday Sunday

would you would you regard yourself as a

graduate

as a what pardon Midwood you're just

arrogant you're not as a midwit yeah

you're not it depends on the day you're

just arrogant

when did I make the equivalence between

polity and civilization didn't I when

you said it was apology and a

civilization and you referred to the

same thing so okay you know what this is

interesting so if I say Sunday is a man

I don't know if you are but let's just

say you are I don't know how you

identify Sunday is amen thank you sir

day is a man

who um you know wears an orange shirt

does that mean there's an equivalence

between men who wear orange and people

who wear orange shirts

the analogy would be

um

Sunday is a uh mammal and

no it would be uh and an ecosystem right

no it wouldn't which would it would be

that if I say a policy and a simple no

no because because this is actually

really important because when we're

talking about a civilization

it's in it's in the words civilization

is not just a noun it's also a process

right you can have a process of

civilization I don't know if this is

just because you're drunk but this is a

baffling level I'm sobering up a little

bit for you to fucking interrupt me to

say something so wrong if I said that's

actually that's actually not wrong

that's that's cool civilization

civilization initially in the terms of

usage refers to okay this person is

process of incarceration education this

person is mentally ill I'm gonna fucking

point on Microsoft Paint right now to

allow people to visualize how fucking

stupid this is you should scream louder

you're gonna make it more apparent which

of us is mentally ill all I'm

everyone will see Haas says I believe

you polity and civilization

uh-huh

Sunday claims Haas says policy equals

civilization no no you say polity and

Civilization by reference to the same

thing that means that you're referring

to the same thing as both polity and

civilization but that's not correct no

I'm not I'm referring to the fact that

they were you referred to you refer to

Russia as apology shut up for two

seconds shut up but is that is that

incorrect though

yes or no hang on shut the fuck up for

two seconds are you scared to hear me

I'm not why are you scared to hear me

I was referring to the Soviet Union as a

polity which it is a shame and a

civilization ability and a civilization

not even necessarily this even if I did

yes but I was specifically referring to

the fact that they were so so the Soviet

Union is a polity and a civilization

sure why not that's what we're running

with well I can tell you exactly why not

because apology and civilization are at

the same thing I did they don't Soviet

Union is not a civilization it is only a

polity an apology very precise a policy

cannot also be a civilization I do not

think a polity can also be a

civilization though why not

but the same reason that a cancer can't

also be an organism we're talking about

a cluster of cultural similarities okay

let me let me put it different

communities together that can

nonetheless have their own histories

have their own lineages go to war with

one another these are not the same kinds

of things

actually yes gunpowder Empires Encompass

that uh definition of policies which are

both civilizations but regardless

what do you mean by that explain the

post Mongol gunpowder Empires were

extremely diverse in terms of the

various peoples they encompassed

they were civilizations that were on

encompassed more or less by One

Sovereign yes they were well that's

multiple civilizations that's not a

civilization at a polity

yeah it's one civilization

that would be one polity that happens to

have hegemonic rule over multiple

civilizations if we if we accept those

terms no it's not it would not be that

would not be a civilization civilization

is based on a relationship between State

and civil society and Civil Society no

no it's it's really not though yes like

the notion of no because the notion of a

civilization is projected

far beyond State boundaries if you read

any of the any of the the people

actually deploy civilization in their

theories going back to like

spanglaritolian B etc etc back to the

earliest usage of the term it doesn't

refer to Sunday Sunday it refers to

common features between states that

makes them particularly amenable to each

other if you want to render this

conversation intelligible to viewers by

cutting me off after it's two things

kind of sounds like you're scared to

hear me make any argument at all right

do I sound scared to you like there's

something on my phone every time I talk

you can't help but open your fucking

mouth and sound like well that's why I

wanted us to talk in front of a

moderator unfortunately since we're

talking unmoderated this is the game

since I let you talk and I actually want

to hear what you have to say so I can

destroy you you should be confident

enough to hear me talk so you can

dismantle what I'm saying okay because I

let you talk because I want to know

exactly what I'm going to dismantle

anyways I feel I don't feel anyway I'm

saying I I don't want to get into a

prolonged you're wrong about what

civilizations are by the way they do

imply both the relationship between

states I have your I have your chat on I

know you're just reading your chat you

don't know what you're talking about

now you're just intentionally trying to

fucking piss me off that's fine I know

yeah you're just trying to troll at this

point see you're resorting to trolling

which means I'm not trolling I'm

watching your stream and your chat as we

speak and I know that when you interject

suddenly with a correction you have no

idea what you're talking about somebody

has inserted something and you're

grasping for that where like a rock in a

storm looking through my chat right now

where is the insertion I'm looking at my

chat now as farther as farther back can

you please name the user I got it from

uh

uh

uh and what did I get exactly

oh my God so you're not trolling right

now when you're accusing me of getting

this from my chat oh you're 100 getting

this from your chat so

and you're not can you commit uh based

on your honor that you're not trolling

when you claim that

what's that say again will you commit

your integrity to the claim that my

argument is from my chat right now I

think it's from your chatter from your

Discord

okay so anyway let's focus on the actual

substance of contention you're wrong

about what civilizations are they're not

yes you are you're wrong I'm not I'm not

well you you're not willing to hear why

you're wrong Sunday so I guess you in

your own little why don't you why don't

you why don't you indulge me very

quickly and tell me what source you're

actually getting your understanding of

civilization from I don't need a

specific Source I can try and give my go

at describing what civilization is and I

don't need a draw from a source I can

just try and give a proper

definition if you will of a civilization

and my own terms right but anyway hang

on I don't care about your own terms

what Haas makes up off the cuff it's not

it's not interesting do you okay do you

think civilization is like an empirical

object that only um that has to be like

very no I think I think civilization is

a fraught term however in its historical

usage it does not refer specifically

actually no it specifically does not

refer to a particular state it is

deployed specifically to talk about

continuities between different states

Hellenic civilization does not refer to

any particular state it refers to Athens

it refers to Rome refers to a hosts that

went to war with each other and

identified radically differently a

different again a give again you know

the reason you're wrong about that is

because Hellenic civilization could not

be given its full story without

Alexander's conquests which you

temporarily conquered Hellenic

civilization precedes Alexander's

Conquest I know I know but but the idea

would be basically that that is still an

anticipating a more Universal state

right but anyway listen yeah well what

are you talking about Universal State

civilization does not entail a universal

state

as civilization can indeed anticipate a

universal policy in companies seeing the

civilization if what you mean is a

civilization can exist before the

existence of a state with universal

aspiration sure but that there's nothing

whatsoever on the definition of

civilization as opposed to State yeah it

does because you're giving an incomplete

picture of Hellenic civilization for

example when you're not taking into

account how it's giving rise to this

impetus for a shared unified policy but

anyway here's the problem president but

it does it it it doesn't though first

first of all that's what happened

because Alexander the Great was a

Macedonian secondly

um Hellenism the historical period of

Hellenism followed his conquests as we

know it hellenics no no that was that

was the end that was the end of the

Hellenic style uh politics being like a

meaningful category you're not familiar

world historiography the Hellenic period

ends with Mark Anthony at the Battle of

actium or actum I forgot to pronounce it

sliding with yeah Hellenism the era of

you're talking about you're talking

about like a an arbitrary system a

periodization you're not talking about a

civilization the periodization is what's

actually you just said cite your sources

well that's the most conventional way of

citing no no periodization and

civilizational descriptions are not the

same thing periodization has to do with

like Sunday Sunday Sunday civilizations

are a spatial characterization okay sure

a spatial characterization in any case

in any case you're giving an incomplete

picture of a given civilization if

you're not including the way in which

That civilization gives right saying

that Alexander was a Macedonian well so

that's the end of Hellenic civilization

under what Criterion

what

who would say who would agree with you

that Hellenic civilization is coming to

its end following Alexander's conquests

I didn't State Hellenic civilization

came to its end at her Alexander's

Conquest the the the the politea the the

the polis became an irrelevant so was

was

subordinated form after after the

conquest of Alexander because now you

had Empires hegemonically asserting

their rights over individual communities

but but the civilizations you don't

think that Empire was the culmination of

Greek history

no he's a Macedonian well that's not how

Alexander himself articulates it

Alexander it's himself is articulate yes

he's the he's the son of Philip he's a

Macedonian like Aristotle okay he's a

he's a foreigner but he's a foreigner

who's a part of Greek civilization

no he's a he's part of a different

different place

different okay like everything according

to president Sunday

Alexander was not part of Greek

civilization and he had nothing to do

with Greeks okay that's fine that's a

new contribution to history from

president Sunday he conquered them

okay so Alexander

came from completely outside of the

Greek sphere the civilization the sphere

of Greek civilization no he was he was

he was in the territory of Greece but he

wasn't the same he wasn't from the same

type of place as Athens or Sparta or

whatever that's why you don't that's why

you don't

talk about them when you're talking for

example about the Peloponnesian War or

or the war with the the Persians or

whatever

was it not Alexander who completed that

war with the Persians no it's a

different war with the Persians no there

was multiple Wars with the Persians and

yeah but that's that's a different

different war with the final okay yeah

you're right I got a donation saying

you're changing the subject and you are

so can you actually give me 20 seconds

of non-interruption stop letting this

guy change the

subjects impulsively keep responding for

20 seconds no okay sure so you're wrong

about the nature of what civilization is

you're completely wrong about that but

even if you were right the point stands

that me saying policy and civilization

in no way implies that they're the same

thing you could very well have a shared

civilizational sphere it has also

happened to be encompassed by the same

policy policy in terms of territory

saying that they're encompassed by the

same politine civilization in no way

implies any kind of equivalence there

could be a vague Russian civilization

that's shared between Ukraine and Russia

you say that being under the same policy

precludes the possibility of a shared

civilization that's an arbitrary claim

it's a complete being part of the same

civilization doesn't give rights to one

part particular quality within that

Civilization to assert itself

who said Reich where did that come from

did you pull it out of your hat Sunday

who the fuck said writes

you were you were talking about the

universe

let's go back to the beginning when

you're talking about when you're talking

about when you're talking about when

you're talking about when you're talking

about a state using militaristic Force

no we're not talking about that yet

forcibly alter the composition

pornography one of the ways in which you

can describe that as that state

asserting its rights over the other

state Europe that's what that means

you're a porn addict okay you need to

hold your horses we're not here in 2022

yet we're here in 1991. and as of 1991

the people of eastern Ukraine and Russia

are not considered a different people

right they are Russians living in

Ukraine because there's a open border

they're part of the same

Soviet polity and they're also part of

the same civilization I'm going to

qualify that in a way that I hope isn't

controversial these are people who are

marrying each other these are people who

are seamlessly interacting with each

other they're ex they're not considered

different right they're not um separated

from each other on any level of culture

of any level of language they are not a

different people okay

okay so that's what I said and you went

on this whole tangent about politics and

civilizations are the same it's

irrelevant okay well it's not you you

deployed those terms specifically to

justify once again the incursion of

Russia no we're not there yet but we're

not there yet no we're there when we

have to talk about how the ability for

these people in eastern Ukraine to be

part of a separate Ukrainian State

requires according to them according to

the Ukrainian Constitution their ability

to both participate in the political

system and for their participation to be

recognized formally where's this hang on

where is this in the Ukrainian

Constitution that entitles everyone a

right to vote

show me

in the Ukrainian Constitution

after 1991 you're you're questioning

whether this constitution entails the

Democratic rights of the Ukrainian

people no no I'm I'm questioning whether

or not by reference to the Constitution

itself you can actually pinpoint an

argument for why the Don bass uh is

because they voted more actually more

accurately for why uh Russia is

Justified

cementing a civil war because they voted

for poroshenko and he was overthrown in

a way that didn't reflect their

political will

well iforoshenko once again was firing

on his people and was in office so me in

the Ukrainian Constitution where that

matters Sunday show me

the Ukrainian Constitution is not just a

piece of paper it is also a reference to

the Constitution of the community itself

and will we say constitutional we are

not simply there's clear

licenses

we are talking about the composition of

the community in a real talking about

the difference of communities

we are talking about the fact that when

there are fundamental differences

between the various and against him of

course when there are fundamental

differences

when there are very when there are

essential fundamental differences

when there are fundamental differences

between the various peoples comprising

the Ukraine the only mechanism that Gary

guarantees some kind of shared political

Community is a formal Constitution

there's no vague general feeling of

agreement among the community of people

in the eastern Ukraine

it is not based upon people having some

shared feeling there is people it's not

a shared feeling it's a shared formal

document that asserts the rights of

everyone in Ukraine so if people in

Western Ukraine have a vague if the

person if the person who is elected to

office then abuses deficiencies within

the writ of the law to tyrannically

assert himself over the people's will

it's completely appropriate

if to engage in a revolutionary action

against which people which people not

the people in eastern Ukraine so how do

you establish probably probably

at least some of the people probably at

least some of the people how do you

regard any revolutionary actions hey

how do you establish the generality of

the Ukrainian people outside of that

fucking Constitution then a little bit

louder I couldn't quite hear you how do

you establish the generality of the

people of Ukraine still it's still not

coming through you got to go how do you

establish the generality and the

universities

how do you establish how do you

establish the generality and the unity

of the people of Ukraine then

how do you establish the generality in

the unity of the people of Ukraine then

yes not it's not it's not by

characterizing any part that dissents

against the tyranny of somebody wants to

stay in office Sunday Sunday

speaking ukrainians have a different

interest than Western speaking

ukrainians the only Western isn't a

language doesn't matter

it doesn't matter what the fuck does

that mean Western versus

russian-speaking ukrainians Western

ukrainians who are indeed different from

russian-speaking ukrainians in the East

okay

they have different interests in this

case one wants to be closer to Russia

one wants to be closer to Europe the

only reason why these so what the only

reason why these russian-speaking

ukrainians are not taking up arms and

seceding is because they're following

the law and the same law which is

established in the Ukrainian

Constitution you claiming that

poroshenko beating protesters justifies

his overthrow is irrelevant to the point

because it's not justified to the people

who it does because you're making

specific reasons to a democratic

principle to justify once again

those people who are ass hurt about the

poor shenko can live in their own State

they can't impose their will on the

people of eastern Ukraine who disagree

with their sentiment

yeah they can just like Russia Canada no

they can't well that's the thing Sunday

they fucking failed they failed in doing

that that's right

even even running even running with with

with your yeah

I'm unjust for supporting Russia even

running you're on Drugs That's not

healthy are you even running even

running with even running with your

logic

um that would entail that Russia invades

and then stops at the Don bass did it

Russia never claimed to have any

Ambitions quote unquote for Ukraine if

you're a simpleton do you do you do you

do you believe whatever somebody did

Why'd You Come here I was gonna say a

vital maybe there's a vital piece of my

argument you just stopped everyone from

hearing right now maybe maybe you maybe

you maybe the thing I was about to say

maybe you have to stop maybe you have

maybe maybe you have some secret answer

to to no maybe I didn't finish what I

was gonna say which is was Russia

operating outside of the Dawn bass was

Defensive because Ukraine's military is

getting replenished and coming from

outside of the Dawn bass so yes if you

think you think American do you think

American colonialism in the the Middle

East is defensive

I'm going to simplify this for you

Russell wants to defend the dawn bass

and that's its main goal

um Ukraine it's defending a territory

that only exists as a result of it did

Churchill did Churchill just want to

conquer Germany it is

established I'm sorry dude D-Day was

unjustified because the Western allies

have no right to conquer and colonize

Germany it's not like they actually just

wanted to remove the German aggressors

that were coming from Germany and

attacking them no what if this means

what if they did though what if they did

though dude do you think America had

territorials no no yeah well I'm just

just answer that question what if they

did what if who did

what if the Americans really were just

these these selfless Martyrs who just

wanted to stop the Holocaust what if

they did

what

the Americans didn't have territorial

claims to Germany is my point I know so

what if what are you proposing what

counter factual are you proposing well

first of all Germany invaded neighboring

countries America was coming in defense

of itself okay so so America can attack

Germany and German soil without having

territorial claims to Germany right

if America if Germany is attacking its

allies and going Beyond its borders to

okay well Western Ukraine is going

Beyond its borders according to Russia

and attacking the donbass so there you

go okay so so if if the Nazis just

decided to claim that Belgium by rights

belong to Germany that would be

sufficient for you to support the German

invasion of Belgium do the people of

Belgium who are German now apparently

and speak German and are Germans and

identify as Germans agree with this

sentiment well once they excise all the

gays and the Jews I imagine there would

be quite a uh consensus on that so

you're now denying the right to the

self-determination of the Belgian Nation

claiming they have no such aspiration

that's interesting but you're very

stupid okay are we talking I'm very

stupid are the people are the people of

Belgium who are on their own accord

mainly seceding from some higher power

constantly getting shelled and attacked

all the time right by Germany they were

not by Germany by France let's say let's

say Belgium is actually a

german-speaking people and they wanted

to leave France and join Germany and

France is constantly attacking them and

Germany is trying to negotiate a peace

in the form of the Minsk agreements

which France keeps fucking violating and

there's no end to the conflict and a

hostile Coalition of people like it was

it was it was is using it as a pretext

first of all that's first of all that's

first of all that's first of all

incorrect as far as I am aware the Minsk

agreements were simply never honored and

a conflict that was initiated by Russia

simply continued

slightly while they were being okay why

aren't the Minsk agreements honored

because Russia kept an invading Force

acquiring Ukraine into Ukrainian and

ukrainians kept firing it Russia but

here's the crucial Point why would the

Ukraine Florida let's evaluate the facts

Sunday why did the Ukrainian government

ministers the prom I forgot the exact

one in as early as January of 2022 claim

that they never wanted to sign minks in

the first place and they were forced to

at gun gun points because probably they

didn't want to sign an agreement where

they were still firing on an invading

Force within their territory blame

Russia I am blaming Russia they were

invading Ukraine why the fuck why the

fuck would Ukraine sign an agreement to

stop firing back on an invading point

you just said Minsk was never honored

because of Russia and that's not true

Minsk was never no no no no no was

predicated on a Russian invasion it just

really wasn't honored period so then

just say you don't believe in the

validity of Minsk then don't say Minsk

the peace process of mince which is I

never I never said I believed him yes

you said it wasn't honored by Russia

that's a lie that doesn't mean I believe

in its validity it's kind of the

opposite it was honored by Russia it was

honored by Russia it was no it wasn't no

it wasn't all the sources show that both

were firing upon themselves and moreover

it wouldn't matter because once again

once again once again even if Russia

once again once again once again once

again once again

even if Russia did honor it they would

be honoring it while violating Ukrainian

Sovereign territory here's why it does

matter

Sunday it does matter because it was not

only and this is not only what I'm going

to say Ukraine was party to that but it

doesn't matter because Ukraine has to be

particularly

so let me finish it first no no but you

weren't you weren't making sense you

were referencing a thing

I'll explain it after I get my second

point so explain it explain it first

invention this is the point I care about

and then I'll explain what I just said

okay but I don't care about your point

so tell me the tell me that thing I said

I'm happy for you

not only was Ukraine a signatory Not

only was Ukraine a signatory to mince to

a party to the agreement with an

invading power yes you're constituting

the Crimea as an invasion shut the fuck

up second of all yes I'm constituting

the rolling Inn of tanks into Crimea

which was not in Russia hold on hold on

the problem is that Ukraine expressly

expressly it claimed it had no intention

of honoring Minx why would Russia

dishonor the Minsk agreements why is why

is Ukraine why is Ukraine obligated to

honor Minsk Ukraine is being invaded

they'd say they don't want mints that's

fine don't say Russia was the one

dishonoring the agreement because they

weren't I said they both were I said it

never didn't do that no no I said I said

Miss was never honored by other no I

said Minsk was never honored by it

actually shows us okay if Russia's the

only one who wants Minsk what reason

does Russia fucking have to violate the

Minsk agreements tell me that because

because if Ukraine honors Russia

violates Minsk then it's Invasion into

Ukraine is further abetted because

Ukraine has led its guard down what hold

on Russia what is complicated about this

Russia let's let's

play this out let's play this out for a

second so if you're invading if you're

invading a country that is fighting back

against you pretty effectively would you

not want them to stop for a brief period

to stop firing back and to give you a

minute to read what effects fighting was

Ukraine doing against Russia from the

period of 2014 to early 2022 just before

the actual SML the particulars evade me

but they must have been doing something

right because they've managed to fight

off a much larger Force for a very long

time they weren't there was a lot of

heavy Bloodshed going on and it was just

chaos there was Ukraine still stands

this is this this Invasion has been I

can't see them how stupid what you just

said this Invasion this Invasion has

been going on since this Invasion has

been going on since 2014. okay 2022

there's an Smo February 2022.

Minsk you're just not educated

apparently the Minsk agreements are

preceding the Smo I hope you know that

the Smo didn't come from a month ago

sorry the Minsk agreements didn't come

from a month ago the Minsk agreements

stemmed from the Ukrainian Civil War and

it was mediated by Russia because Russia

wanted peace between the donbass regions

and Ukraine they wanted a tentative

agreement in which Ukraine would stop

fighting with people in donbass and they

would just leave each other alone

according to the Minsk agreement no

because because the people who were

fighting in donbass were also Russian

soldiers

even if there was a Russian Special

Operation special uh Special Forces

there the allegations that makes that

the front that makes up the front in an

invasion that's not a civil war anymore

nope that's a civil war being used as a

human not true to defend an invasion you

may not be that well read up on the

Donetsk people's republics and lugan's

people's Republicans I'm not and yet I

seem to be doing fine it's a little bit

disturbing I know people who've lived

there many people okay well then may God

have mercy on your soul I'll talk to you

in on the 20th yeah stop bitching out

dude no let's finish this those he ran

away like a

on YouTube not a rumble I can't believe

this pussy I can't believe this fucking

pussy he fucking ran away okay

the people in the Donetsk and lugonics

people's republics don't need Russian

soldiers to come as the motivation for

them to fight those are people Rank and

file people from the dawn bass fighting

on the front lines if they're getting

some hidden assistance by the Russian

Special Forces I've heard that

allegation it's never really been

substantiated from what I've seen but

maybe it maybe it's there's some truth

to it I don't know

in the main the fighting is being done

by people from the dawn bass easily

fucking bitch ran away what a fucking

pussy