The ANNIHILATION of Destiny (Beta Male Bonnell) 🚀 Infrared Content Catalog

hey everybody tonight we're debating the

war in ukraine and we are starting right

now with infrared and jackson's opening

statement thanks so much gentlemen for

being with us the floor is all yours

okay so when it comes to the formation

of this is the first context i want to

establish when it comes to the formation

of military alliances uh this actually

extends beyond the bounds of the

sovereignty within a state's own

territory uh countries have an

obligation to be cognizant of the

geopolitical geographic and historical

and civilizational realities that their

own sovereignty is situated within and

this is specifically um recognized by

organizations organizations like the

osce according to which ukraine being a

member one country according to its

founding document at least one country

security cannot be strengthened at the

security of another state so what the

osce establishes is that it's not just

that states are just completely totally

free to just do whatever they want in

terms of making security alliances and

in terms of how they construct their

militaries and position themselves

geopolitically there's a very delicate

balance of power and security in europe

and everyone who's committed to actually

preserving long-term peace uh which is

what the osce is actually about uh has

to be recognized the fact that it needs

to be a balance of security there needs

to be a security architecture that

ensures

that um there is a fair distribution of

security across the continent when this

balance is tipped in one direction or

the other it creates a situation of

instability and geopolitical uncertainty

and leads to the conditions that

ultimately could lead to war into

conflict

so one has to keep this in mind when one

is bringing up the issue of the

sovereignty of states

states should have a right to

self-determination and states should

have the right to be sovereign but they

should also be cognizant of the

geopolitical and geographic realities

within which they reside

uh

so as to not create circumstances that

upset the balance of security and the

security architecture

i'll give it to jackson now

yeah so the next point that i think is

really important is to actually and i

would like to uh hear dylan and destiny

respond to this when they talk is to

address when did this conflict begin or

if you know war when did this war begin

the war began and they refused to call

it a war ukraine the ukrainian

government refused to call the war for

eight years because they wanted to have

imf loans and you can't give imf loans

to a country that's at war but the war

began

after the 2014 coup that took place uh

on the heels of the uh maidon protest

which began in all honesty uh without us

backing i mean there was a plurality of

people within

ukraine that were frustrated over the

fact that uh you know there was not

going to be eu membership for ukraine um

and well i guess there was going to be a

delay in the decision

and those protests began and then

eventually they decided that they were

not going to take the unfair uh you know

deal that the eu offered them um they

knew that these neo-liberal policies

that would be inflicted upon them upon

uh the eu eu deal would have hurt them

much more than uh opening up trade

partnerships more with russia would have

helped them

um so

upon these protests the u.s you know

began to

infiltrate the movement uh u.s

politicians began uh you know working

with uh agencies on the ground u.s front

agencies on the ground like the national

endowment for democracy uh victoria

newland even boasted about the fact that

you know they funneled five bit i think

it was five billion dollars we'll

discuss the details of the us

involvement in the coup uh later on in

the debate i'm sure uh but lots of money

came in to these u.s agencies on the

ground to actually hijack the maidon

protests upon hijacking the maidan

protests uh violence broke out um this

was dissimilar to the 2004 color

revolution that the us also played a

part in uh surrounding the 2004

elections which yanukovych was also

involved in initially reported that he

won uh though international western

aligned uh agencies

claimed that these elections were marred

with uh with uh corruption and

discrepancies and irregularities in the

vote the uh election was overturned then

and um you know yanukovych didn't see

the presidency until his second run but

after being elected you know uh during

these maidan protests us and became

involved they led a coup upon the

democratically elected government of

yanukovych

and after

that uh you know

coup on the democratically elected

government of yanukovych we saw the

eight-year war begin um and that's the

next point i want to make it's insane to

assume that uh this war began you know

within the past two weeks everyone knows

that there was shelling there was

fighting in the donbass region uh the

question is when did that begin it began

directly after the coup uh thanks to the

western aligned leader that was put into

power now these western aligned leaders

that were put into power uh have deep

ties to the you know nationalist far

right uh you know uh factions radical

factions within both the ukrainian

military and the ukrainian uh political

apparatus

there's over 80 far-right you know

military militias and battalions within

ukraine some of the most notable uh

include of course the azov battalion

which is one of the primary forces that

has been waging uh asymmetrical warfare

upon the people of the netskin lahansk

who they themselves took votes to

recognize their independence um which

was not uh which was not uh you know

granted by russia or ukraine or western

states uh for many years

though

vladimir putin did come out and say that

he respected the legality or the

legality the outcome of the elections

but he didn't actually recognize them as

independent states at the time uh up

until you know just this month so

all in all

this conflict didn't begin uh this week

it began

during the made on coup

um asymmetrical warfare was waged

against the people of the netske and

lehansk in the past three years of the

conflict which is all i have been able

to find data for maybe dylan or destiny

can provide more evidence but uh

according to the united nations 81.4

percent of the civilian casualties in

the donbass war uh came on the side of

the donbass civilians dying there uh and

at the end of the day uh russia you know

was very very restrained they tried to

engage in peace deals surrounding the

minsk accord and bring peace to the

region uh like it or not think it's fair

not he did do that for eight years

um and in that entire time everything i

just mentioned was taking place and

these western aligned leaders that

controlled the government for different

stretches of time over these uh over

this over this period

have made a continued effort to try and

join nato which vladimir putin has

continuously said and i agree would be a

direct threat to their security

you got it thank you very much for those

openings infrared and jackson hinkle

want to let you know folks if it's your

first time here at modern day debate we

are a neutral platform hosting debates

on science religion and politics and

second before i kick it over to destiny

and dylan for their opening if you

haven't have a question feel free to

fire it into the old live chat 100 of

super chats tonight are going to

worldwide orphans and you can also tag

me with at modern day debate in the live

chat to submit a question as well thanks

so much destiny and dylan for being with

us the floor is all yours for your

openings as well so

putin has been saying it's been quoted

as saying said multiple times that the

greatest geopolitical catastrophe the

last century has been the collapse of

the soviet union i think if we look at

the actions of putin not just in ukraine

but in other countries and other states

within russia around the world i think

we can see that putin's goal is to

rebuild some sort of new body that

resembles the lost soviet union whether

that's going to be the union state that

includes belarus russia and perhaps some

future ukraine or not remains to be seen

based on how well the ukrainians can

resist russian aggression but it seems

pretty clear that putin has a huge drive

to rebuild what he sees as one of the um

as i guess his fond memory of the of the

soviet union

the idea that

uh in terms of individual claims i guess

we'll start going through the history

but i mean almost everything you said is

either half wrong or just completely

wrong the idea that europe was offering

them an unfair deal one of the biggest

reasons why they required that eu deal

was because russia themselves began to

put blockades on certain imports for

ukraine just because they thought the

president was looking towards the

european union for a deal um

the idea that the russian deal was

better when the european deal would have

just allowed them access to the markets

while the russian deal was literally a

an exclusive deal that would have

forbade them from trading into other

markets is hilariously stupid um the

idea that this conflict began in 2014 is

also just completely wrong there have

been foreign policy experts i can find

papers back since 2010 claiming that

crimea was under threat of invasion from

russia and it was invaded russia has

been consistently working with

disinformation campaigns among actual

military aid to places like donbass or

crimea

since at least 2010 if not earlier

there's been a long and a rich history

of corruption in ukraine whether we're

talking about people that used to

actually be in the soviet party that

became leaders of ukraine or were

talking about people that more or less

wanted to be putin stooges later on like

um

like yanukovych i think that's the

equivalent of an armed conflict i guess

we'll get into the individual history of

any of these particular things but uh he

thinks that's the equivalent of an armed

force today that literal fucking idiot

justified in their aggression and

they're taking over of any of the

ukrainian territory uh whether that's

when they took over crimea in 2014

whether that's the eastern territories

that they're trying to take over now or

the rest of ukraine that we're trying to

take over i think it's just absolutely

absurd uh i would echo something that

has said in the very beginning of the

debate that one country's security

cannot be increased at the expense of

another that's a hilarious statement

coming from somebody trying to defend

the neo-imperialism of

the wannabe soviet union uh and i'm

curious how you guys will defend us in

the conversation coming forward he calls

it neo imperialism

so i guess the best thing to do would be

start with um i guess i'll start in 2004

since i know more about like recent

ukrainian history so the orange

revolution which i respect the ukrainian

people for taking power into their own

hands to stop an election that was

stolen he respects the fascists

ukrainian court as of nazis before and

you we call it a coup or it was a coup

of viktor karanikovic what was failed to

mention is that after the ukrainian

courts decided that there was

large-scale fraud committed on behalf of

victor yanukovych in 2004 is that there

was a re-vote 2004.

was done once international monitors

were now involved in the situation uh

that's when victor yanukovych lost the

2004

election so the orange revolution 2004

cited here as a coup

what is not mentioned is just like in

the 2014 coup there is an election after

both the tensions

in 2004 there was a re-vote and in 2014

after victor yanukovych was impeached he

then fled the country and there was

another democratic election where

somebody was democratically elected

there was also another election in 2019

where zielinski won with about 73

percent of the vote what what

i know both of these people care about

sovereignty a lot here uh in both

instances both in 2004 and 2014 and

before it the russian state has meddled

in the affairs of ukraine on multiple

occasions formatting corruption uh

directly getting involved in elections

and directly getting involved with

ukrainian politicians

basically sponsoring this oh but the us

is not they have it's a given involved

in the affairs that's meddling what does

meddling even mean every fucking country

meddles against politicians like victor

yanukovych and you're going to see the

orange revolution in 2004 when a foreign

state meddles in the internal fails of

another state so it's strange for me to

hear all this concern about america

interfering in the internal affairs of

the ukrainian government in 2014 when

there was so much of it going on ever

since the creation of uh ever since

ukraine voted with over 90 percent of

the vote to separate from russia in the

early 19th what does that have to do

with anything like this it has nothing

to do with the orange revolution or 2014

in 1994 and the budapest memorandum to

not invade uh ukraine after it gave up

its nuclear which was which was uh

nullified

the budapest memorandum was nullified

spirit of that was also violated when

they meddled in the internal affairs of

ukraine in both two who's nullified 2014

and many other instances uh besides that

i heard a lot about concerned about the

far right uh but i heard no concern

about for example the russian

national unity movement which is a a

russian neo-nazi political and militia

group that is active under the arm of

the doneska people's republic they are a

neo-nazi militia that has been fighting

on behalf of the donest people's

republic for a very long period of time

now and so for me this claim of

denotification prove their neo-nazis

having to do with denotification is

ridiculous to me not only are nazis

fighting on behalf of russian-backed

rebels but there's also instances of for

example belarus the leader of belarus

which is involved in the conflict

praising adolf hitler saying germany

reached its peak under adolf hitler and

not only that

but also we could talk about the chechen

fighters for example that's evidence

lucas hitler homosexuals in

concentration camps now i don't want to

talk about the deep history of the gays

in nazi germany but if there's anything

that is nazi-esque i would say putting

homosexuals in concentration camp would

solidly being homophobic means you're a

nazi this doesn't even have to do with

polling data when we talk about

anti-semitism between the two countries

or the fact that the ozone battalions

political party which is something

that's cited on multiple occasions has

not won a single seat in ukraine's

parliament you can add the right sector

as well the right sector has not run a

single seat in european's parliament

either now maybe if you added a

three-finger party you can get one seat

out of 450. i wonder why because they're

not popular and they're only fucking

propped up by the deep state of ukraine

ridiculous when the russians that's

fucking evidence the republic's that

it's evidence the coup wasn't populated

with neo-nazis it's simple that the

slavs of europe obviously have a bad

memory with neo-nazis and it's really

easy to convince your population that

the enemy is bad if you call them all

nazis if in this debate i said uh you

know my two opponents here are neo-nazis

it would justify me being extremely

terrible towards both of them because

nobody likes nazis as long as you're a

normal person uh we can probably get

into specifics of uh u.s involvement in

2014

and the labeling of this q we can get uh

more into the budapest memorandum i'm

hoping to get more into that but i'll

just end my statement there for now i'd

also like to add on amends to dillon's

statement that i would like to

congratulate the neo-nazi country of

ukraine for being the first country

outside of israel to have its two

highest level political positions held

by jewish people which is an amazing

achievement for us

opening statements

oh my god

it isn't that surprising that these

people couldn't respect the rules of uh

rules of debate when the russians are

not respecting the rules of war in

multiple cities across ukraine sorry

almost as though they were trying to

improve

their opening statement by violating the

security of ours

all right so i'm going to use the mute

button liberally tonight just because i

do really seriously want this to be a

fruitful conversation so i agree

any last words from destiny and dylan in

terms of that opening uh last word just

for context before we get into uh

debating the ethics of the azov

battalion this is a fighting force of

maybe 2 500 people of whom 10 to 20 are

supposedly neo-nazis out of ukrainian

army that has over 200 000 active

military personnel the idea that ukraine

is some hot bed of neo-nazi activity is

just hilarious having both a prime

minister and a president that are jewish

like it's it's one of the biggest

driving forces that putin uses to try to

push his population against ukraine it's

absolutely pure propaganda

all right i think we're are we good here

dylan i've got a few more minutes

anything else you wanna

um i mean i could just list off uh like

russian war crimes in ukraine uh since

they talked about that uh the targeting

of civilians and kurosawa the targeting

of meaning is laughing uh demented

bullshit all bullshit of civilians all

across ukraine since you addressed me

you're full of shit

my goodness so he's laughing

i cannot comment on that

there is there are about three minutes

and fifteen seconds left for a different

time to stay on topic don't don't make

comments directed at me pillsbury i

can't it's a debate it's debate what do

you mean don't make comments directed at

you do you want to just just think

speech following do you think do you

think it would be would it be considered

a war crime when um yushenko didn't that

guy say that he was really crazy he had

like agent orange poisoning or whatever

there was kind of a random thing when he

was running against yushenko this is

kind of strange i'm sorry when he's

running against yanukovych that was kind

of little a little strange i mean but

you know am i randomly hey

just can't stop see again more evidence

that uh pro-russian uh individuals in

this conflict just can't follow rules of

engagement anyway a civilian uh critical

severe civilian interest infrastructure

has been targeted in maripo civilians

have been bombed in curacao again and

again and again kindergartens have been

targeted ngos like amnesty international

right now in violation of the geneva

convention i believe that the largest

nuclear reactor in the world has been

hit multiple times it is currently on

that's true that's happening right now

actually true we don't have reports yet

i think i saw an rt article saying

ukrainians themselves were shooting

handguns at it in order to uh

foment like false did you did we check

to see if there was a swastika on the

side of the nuclear reactor it could be

a nazi nuclear there was a picture of a

swastika that was released by russian

state media

but it later came out that i was part of

call of duty war at work

that was the end of our opening

statement we rest our case

all right wanna let you know folks as

mentioned if it's your first time here

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don't forget to hit that subscribe

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coming up and want to let you know our

guests are linked in the description if

you'd like to hear more last but

but not least gentlemen

really during this whole conversation i

really do need you to work with me

it really does have to be that you're

not speaking over each other because

that of course thwarts our own purpose

of having the debate if people can't

hear people because they're speaking

over each other so we're going to go

into open conversation

the floor

is all yours

well where do we want to start gentlemen

um i'll start since you guys just went

by responding to

i mean there's a

whole lot to pick through there but uh

dylan did make the inflammatory claim

that uh

that yanukovych was impeached

and um despite the fact that

dylan claims to be an expert on the

matter yada yada foreign policy expert

he seems to have lost out the fact that

yanukovych was actually not uh impeached

per the constitutional requirements in

ukraine in fact i would like to finish

this this well let me finish because you

happen to not know what you're talking

about

so

he needed there needed to be

three-fourths of the parliament to

guarantee an impeachment

and they did not reach that uh they did

not get those three-quarter votes in

order to impeach uh yanukovych and uh

the supreme courts and the

constitutional courts were not involved

they did not recognize this as an

impeachment

um i believe it was the following day or

maybe two days after yanukovych decided

that his life was under threat and he

was going to flee to the second largest

city in ukraine he did he fled by uh by

helicopter and there was actually

reports the reason why he fled by

helicopters because there was reports

that there was going to be

a uh you know uh act of violence upon

him committed by these far right wing

forces that were trying to lead this

coup

and in fact upon his um you know his uh

the series of cars that were supposed to

be carrying him off to kharkov when he

was leaving when in fact he was in a

helicopter they were fired upon by

snipers so uh he was not uh he was not

impeached there was no constitutional

requirement they didn't get enough votes

so i don't know why you said that well

number one it is a debate that is

ongoing in ukraine whether he was

legally or not legally

okay you could continue to

okay you continue to laugh so why did

you say that he was he didn't you didn't

let me let me you didn't let me finish

okay it's an ongoing constitutional

debate on whether he was legally or

non-legally impeached

hold on let's just give a minute or two

just a minute or two for dylan to

respond okay it is a ongoing legal

debate within ukraine and i honestly i

am going to appeal to the legal scholars

in ukraine which said that he was

constitutionally impeached i'm going to

appeal to them because i'm not a legal

expert and i know jackson hinkle you're

not a legal expert as well

but i do want to bring up here for a

second that this is probably the first

time i've ever seen jackson in favor of

a super of a regime change war and can

we also

wait let me appeal to the scientists

i'll give you 30 seconds i got to give

you 30 seconds and then we've got to

take it over because if you want to talk

about science for a second can we talk

about the claim you made that the

ukrainian government was working with

the american government to make bio

weapons that would target russian dna

uh there have been reports that the bio

labs that are operating within ukraine

that the ukrainian government is

allegedly solely operating we're indeed

collect this is an allegation by the

russian embassy and i'm going to appeal

to you have any evidence well i'm going

to appeal to the experts at the russians

so you have okay so yeah just like just

i'm going to appeal to the scholars on

um military uh threats the military

scientist

foreign ministry i'm going to appeal to

the scholars of the russian military who

i trust them i'm not an expert in uh the

intel that all they have which

scientists has backed that up any

scientist

those are russian military ex uh foreign

relations experts and they know what's

going on they have the intel it's the

gru i don't know which which ones which

ones

which legal then which legal scholars uh

in particular so yeah which legal

scholars are arguing that the

impeachment was legal then so you're

fine with me appeal so my this pro is a

problem for me to appeal to legal

scholars but it's not it's a problem for

you i'm just saying we're playing the

same standard you're applying to me but

you were laughing when i was doing that

as if it was a ridiculous thing to do

but you're doing the same so it's okay

same standard all that we can say is

that uh

i don't believe that the russian uh

foreign issue would be lying about this

i don't so you do believe okay could how

would that be done exactly how would you

target russian dna with biochemical

weapons how would that work definitely

consider it you don't necessarily know

that there's

wait let me

finish let me finish

just to be fair to infrared you did ask

him a question i want to give him a

chance to answer that last question

dylan i promise i'll cook it right back

to you

yeah finally uh you don't know that

that's a thing that there's biological

weapons that are being developed that

target the specific dna of specific

peoples that the us was accusing china

of developing this and vice versa for

china you don't know about that whole

thing my problem is it's very difficult

for putin on one hand to talk about the

united like the history of both ukraine

and russia and to have the amount of

like relations between ukraine and

what

yeah we know they share dna right yes so

how are you going to make biochemical

weapons that have russians but there's

no there's no evidence for this well can

we actually ask a reasonable

it's why do we why would we trust the

russian state media who is trying to not

the state like

the russian embassy let's let's which is

which is in 30 seconds and we'll kick it

over either or jackson

if i were to try to tell you that i know

that iraq has weapons of mass

destruction because the u.s state this

was not the pretext for russia's oh my

god wait is there an echo in my is that

my voice

because it's pivotal this is this was

not the pretext for its special

operation so it's not an infrared

so i hate to do this just let's give it

another 30 seconds to destiny we'll come

right back to infrared okay i just i

don't understand because i don't think

the kremlin gremlin would be happy if i

were to cite the u.s state department

when the united states was trying to end

unilateral against another country i

don't think i'd be able to say well the

united states has this thing you would

need some sort of like external european

union body or human body or somebody

looking into something so for russia

that's trying to justify a unilateral

invasion into a country

like while their embassy said that this

was a bio weapon i don't think that's a

good i don't think that's fair

fucking uh yeah if this was the

president you gotta do me a favor you

can't if you're gonna unmute yourself

come on you gotta work with me here so

i'm gonna i'm gonna take his insults and

not to respond we're gonna play your

knowledge you can insult me but just do

it on your time he's gonna see his

little bitch as the nomads down and

fucking put some respect on this or i am

gonna fucking cut him off now if this

was the pretext for russia's special

military operation you would be right we

would need that evidence to be provided

but that's not the fucking pretext for

the special military operation it's

another type of allegation the details

of which have not been disclosed to the

fucking public so arguing about it is

fucking pointless you want to know my

fucking opinion i trust that they

wouldn't make this up because they don't

need to because they have plenty enough

such as the fact that the ukrainian

government is infiltrated by

anti-russian neo-nazi forces and we're

going to talk about that actually you

said that because zelensky is jewish and

that there's jewish representation in

the ukrainian government that there

couldn't possibly be neo-nazi sympathies

rampant in the ukrainian ruling elite i

never said that there weren't neo-nazi

sympathizers there might be sympathizers

but that's not that's not what your

initial allegation was was nazism solely

defined by anti-semitism no it was

primary anti-semitism actually was just

a subset of the pan-european supremacism

that defined nazism they could they were

anti-semitic because they considered

jews to be foreign to europe right the

main thrust actually was targeted toward

russians who were considered asiatic and

slavs to the east in general wait who

wanted to enslave and wait

who the russians do in this lobby

who the fuck asks nobody cares this is

nothing to do that we're talking about

no it does because the fact that

zolensky is jewish doesn't fucking mean

can't have neo-nazi sympathies steppen

bandera who is a nazi collaborator

during world war ii is widely celebrated

in ukraine by the ukrainian government

they're putting monuments by him they're

putting his pictures up during maidan

he's been exonerated and he's been

rehabilitated despite the fact that he

was a fucking nazi collaborator now if

you can't square that consistency with

the fact that zielenski is jewish you

should go as zolensky himself why he's

the head of a state that is celebrating

a nazi collaborator despite the being of

the jewish background so are you saying

that the russian nazis like jews they're

fine with jews i mean the ukrainian

nazis they're fine with jews they're

like pro-jew nazis that's a question you

should raise to them and i'm asking well

i'm asking you i'm not i'm raising a

question to you they may they may harbor

anti-semitic views but as far as i'm not

concerned there is nothing in there is

nothing impossible about the idea of

western ukrainian who are from jewish

descent also have neo-nazi sympathies

themselves having sympathies for

somebody that might have been a national

hero oh i'm sorry i don't want to

interrupt

you a good amount of time

let's kick it over to stephen and then

jackson does it after after stephen just

in case jackson has anything to so this

is like nazi prop or not on obviously

propaganda it's hard to tell the

difference this is like putin propaganda

101 okay so the original claim was that

the government was full of like

neo-nazis and now it's shipped it is

infra am i done talking holy shit now

the claim is moved all the way back to

well there is a hero that was

pretty arguably a neo-nazi that some

people in ukraine celebrate this is a

totally different totally ukrainian

government totally no it's not he's

incredibly he's an incredibly divisive

figure and there is an incredibly

difficult figure even even in western

ukraine okay the united states am i can

i finish a fucking sentence holy shit

this isn't your spencer debate where

you're going to ramble for 12 fucking

hours and letting you get a fucking ward

in okay

the the idea that just because somebody

uh worshiped some hero or some country

said oh this guy is really important

history means that the entire country is

all of a sudden infested with neo-nazis

is no less true than when the united

states celebrates any fucking hero that

has a sort of history or has been racist

or has been anticipated or whatever else

the fucking united states took in nazis

after world war ii in exchange for some

of the scientific information they could

give us it doesn't make us nazis it

doesn't make our government full of

neo-nazi sympathizers if you want to

make the argument that ukraine has

neo-nazi sympathizers they need to show

me neo-nazi actions happening today in

ukraine not trying to allude to some

hero that uh that uh a prime minister

you know in 2010 or whatever decided to

nominate some fucking hero because of

his history in ukraine you need to show

me something current about that what are

the neo-nazi activities that ukraine is

taking on today don't tell me who was

nominated as a fucking national hero

yeah you're complete you're completely

full of fucking shit you just said that

stepping bandanas there's nowhere else

it's not a nazi collaborator his whole

historical significance was that he was

a fucking nazi collaborator he has no

significance outside

this guy his primary historical

significance was being a nazi

collaborator who betrayed the soviet

union and was uh attacking them on

behalf of the fucking dancing that's

true the slavic and russian and

ukrainian people uh to create a

westernized ukrainian collaborator state

so you're completely full of fucking

shit when it comes to that finally you

want to know about the neo-nazi

activities that are going on now and

have been going on in the past eight

years sure it's the azov battalion which

is the vanguard of ukraine's military in

the eastern ukraine and in the dawn bass

which is regularly attacking civilians

regularly shelling civilian

infrastructure regularly embarking on a

campaign to slaughter and exterminate uh

the russian peoples in eastern ukraine

they could they committed the uh

massacre of odessa back in the early

days of the maidan all sorts of fucking

neo-nazi activities they burned people

alive they've hung people they've

slaughtered people they've made people

disappear uh if you want to talk about

neo-nazi activities in fucking ukraine

that are now in contemporary here we

have a whole host of fucking every

single thing you just described modern

day right some contexts

let me get in my two cents now okay

so

at the end of the day

the primary goal of the ideological

inheritors of the organization for

ukrainian nationalists which is the the

vanguard of fascism in ukraine this is

the ideology the radical faction within

this organization especially of stefan

bandera they are the people who are

primarily responsible for the hundreds

of thousands of uh you know jewish

polish and russian deaths that took

place during world war ii when western

ukrainian uh ultra nationalists and

neo-nazis were collaborating uh with the

with the actual uh nazis from germany

that we're invading okay

so

um ideological inheritors of this

ideology and you know apologies for not

being able to pronounce these names

properly but ole tianya book who is the

co-founder of olegs fabota he claims

that he wants to purge ukraine of uh

jewish people and russians he was ranked

the fifth most anti-semitic political

leader on the planet in 2012. it just so

happens he was a people's deputy in

ukraine uh up until 2002

but um this guy right here uh who who

was a co-founder of

svoboda also co-founded this

ultranationalist right-wing party with

andre parubi he was the leader of the

euro medan

protest he was the one that helped

organize the violence that was inflicted

upon the uh what's assumed to be roughly

49 50 individuals who died in the uh

massacres on february 20th of 2014 at

euromaidan uh he was the speaker of one

of the most recent parliaments the

chairs one of the most recent

parliaments in ukraine uh he was the

leader of the society to erect the

stefan bandera monument in ukraine and

he claims that bandera was the most

important person in ukrainian history so

it's not just and i could you know i

could go down a list here you could

maxim marchenko uh uh this individual uh

zielinski replaces civilian governor of

odessa

um command commander of the far right

adair battalion you have victor yashenko

who is president he actually publicly

before leaving office signed a decree

stating that for an unbreakable spirit

of heroism self-sacrifice and the

struggle of the independence of ukraine

i'm granting a status of hero of ukraine

to stefan bandera you can look at uh you

can look at tons of people andre andre

belitsky uh ukrainian white nationalists

he was the co-founder of the social

national assembly first commander of the

azov battalion he's celebrated on tv

shows he was a big uh you know part of

the maidan protest you can go down the

line many uh many many members of our uh

deputies of the

thirty more

people's deputies of ukraine def

national uh security and defense council

secretaries uh all of these people

within the ukrainian uh military and

government have had some sort of an

ideological either

sympathy to or participation in a lot of

these people have with neo-nazism okay

even and this is the last thing i'll say

regarding neo-nazism um this is a this

is a shocking video there's a video of

uh some of the neo-nazis uh who helped

organize and carry out the maid on coup

who said if not for the eight percent of

neo-nazis the effectiveness of maidan

would have dropped by 90 percent and

these were the same people that were

funded by uh indirectly funded by uh us

agencies on the ground uh like the

national endowment for democracy last

thing i'll say is uh that was the last

one

yeah real quick

if the battalion is marginal then why

did poroshenko in 2014 say they are our

best fighters why did even the

mainstream western press report that as

far as ukraine's eastern operations were

concerned the azov battalion was a vital

status why did the national guard right

that was the last question

we can't answer 400 questions

on twitter just yeah just says like a

real quick thing okay like you can go

back as much as you want like 20 years

ago when ukraine was barely a country

for 10 years and the country was still

mired in corruption and try to say well

these guys came from these parties that

were like blah blah blah like show me

anti-semitism in ukraine right ukraine

is like one of the last ones

there are a lot of points yeah so

where is the anti-semitism in ukraine

where is the nazism in ukraine you can't

point to the civil war happening in the

east and going civilians are dying

that's not

you can't you can't you can't you can't

point towards people being killed extra

judiciously people that are being

invaded and genocided people that are

being deported from fucking neo-nazism

the same as anti-semitism how is that

the

you think you can't be a nazi if you're

not anti-semitic yes you can

anti-semitism when ukraine is probably

the least anti-semitic country in europe

according to the ukrainian jewish center

or uh uh according to the ukrainian

jewish encounter at least when you look

at the fact that people in poland are so

eager and keen to take on um people that

are fleeing from ukraine like we don't

see this mass persecution of jewish

people in ukraine we don't see any like

rampant anti-semitism in ukraine like

you can go back all you want and point

to like one hero that was nominated by

an outgoing uh prime minister or you can

you know point to these people that in

the very beginning came from foreign

parties but there's just no evidence

today that there is this rampant

anti-semitism this rampant nazism in

ukraine it doesn't exist where are you

getting this idea that the only

measurement of nazism is

so there's also something that's really

interesting here and it's that nazism

seems to matter so much

on one side nobody cares about the

neo-nazi militias fighting on side by

side with russian soldiers nobody even

brings them up the russian national

unity movement and the militias fighting

on behalf of the domestic people's

republics that isn't brought up why

because those are inconvenient nazis

those are nazis on the russian side

people don't talk about the fact that

we're talking about the nazis are bad

why are the nazis bad obviously because

they put people in concentration camps

they slaughtered people in all the war

crimes that he brings up but the fact

that the same people involved in putting

homosexuals in concentration camps or

right now within ukraine fighting

against the ukrainian government that

isn't something of concern

i heard them laugh when i talked about

belarus

the belarusian dictator lukashenko

praising adolf hitler these things are

inconvenient

facts because the problem is right and

this is the fact of the matter there are

nazis fucking everywhere across this

conflict but the problem is the people

want to hype up the nazis on one side to

make them the nazis because slavic

people have a terrible history with

nazis if you can make your opponent the

nazis then boom they're the bad guys

anything you do against them is

justified if i i could stand here and

tell you that russia is a nazi state i

could bring up the fact that five

percent of ukrainians believe that jews

should not be allowed to be citizens

while 15 of russians believed that thing

almost triple that statistic i could

bring up the lukashenko quotes about

hitler i could bring up the gays being

put in concentration camps

in russian territory i could bring up

the neo-nazis malicious and say so

russia is a nazi state but that would be

dishonest but i'm seeing that dishonesty

from both of you right now trying to

paint ukraine a nazi state and i don't

even think jackson and infrared got

their points in order jackson's saying

that they are anti-semitic nazis

infrared saying that they these are

nazis who love the jews i i didn't

fucking say that

what i actually said was that the

emphasis on anti-semitism may not be as

strong as the emphasis on pan-european

supremacism and racial exterminationism

and but that's the fucking point and

moreover the movement for national unity

is not at all fucking relevant or

prevalent within the fuck they're

fighting it's no they're fighting hold

on yeah they're nowhere near as relevant

or proportional to the fucking forces of

the russians that are fighting in the

dawn bass as is the azov battalion

they're come they're marginal they're

completely marginal

the chechens are fighting the chechens

are right now a very important part of

russia's operation right now you think

the chechens are working alongside these

uh totally islamophobic uh prevalent

force no they're not prevalent they're

fucking completely marginal and he's uh

and if they are if you take into account

the premise of what's started this

entire conflict back in 2014 the

euromaidan protests and the violence

that ensued there and the fact that it

uh was co-opted by these uh coup leaders

that were western-backed um you do have

to acknowledge that the effort to uh you

know accomplish this and the success of

the movement was led in great part

thanks to andre perubi

who is the speaker of uh one of the most

recent parliaments and the chair chair

of the one of the most recent

parliaments in ukraine uh this is the

guy who literally sparks the entire

conflict another thing i heard you say

that was even maybe uh more damning than

the fact that you falsely claimed that

uh you know the president was impeached

when he wasn't impeached was when you

said that uh you claimed that or maybe

it was destiny actually i might be uh i

might be you know getting my quotes

wrong one of you said

uh that crimea was illegally invaded by

russia i would be i'd just be curious

like hear your uh thoughts on that more

and whether or not you respect the will

of the crimean people who voted in a

referendum overwhelmingly to legally

join the russian federation uh

96.77 percent voted in favor of joining

the russian federation

supported staying in ukraine jackson was

that after russia invaded crimea they

held that referendum right i just want

to get that right what do you find

i i just wanted to hear yesterday

was that was that the russian was that

the russian referendum after they

invaded you what do you find

listen what do you find as a russian

invasion because going back to 1804

there has been russian troops in christ

the invasion of when they took over when

they invaded

ukraine despite the fact that they have

had troops there since 18 1804 then sure

we'll call it an invasion but we both

know it's not an invasion crimeans

declared they're in this overwhelming

russian invasion

because there are plenty of videos on

the ground of people saying uh they are

not threatening anybody they're here

peacefully they who who

who has sovereignty right now over the

crimean peninsula i'm sorry

who owns favor who who administers right

now to the region of the crimean

peninsula

is it the ukrainian government yeah or

is it the russian government it's a part

of the russian federation since they

voted okay so what does it mean

and they voted they voted that who held

that referendum

uh the referendum was organized by the

people of crimea

under who

it was a russian organized referendum

it was organized organized by the

christian gentleman

i got it everybody

just just to be sure that

jackson did you feel like you had enough

time to answer that last question from

stephen

sure got you

okay and then i think stephen you were

asking so a referendum that's not

recognized by any other country in the

world including ukraine obviously why

don't you idea that you could invade the

idea that you could invade some part of

a country and then hold a referendum

there to see if those people want to

stick with you or not even if they even

if we granted all of that that they did

say yes you can't just have populations

referendum away parts of your country's

sovereign territory to other invading

nation states that's just not how that

works even if that was the case even if

that i don't care what's interesting

even if that was the case that doesn't

work that way in any other part of the

world that's not that's

but i do want to say dylan is there

anything you want to clean up on behalf

of destiny because we haven't heard of

you for a while there's two things the

first thing i wanted the first thing i

wanted to bring up is that uh i didn't

hear from infrared really he just said

the chechens are fighting to yes but

chechen's involved in putting

homosexuals in concentration camps that

doesn't make them nonsense

listen to me even if those allegations

are correct that doesn't make them

either nazis or not specifically doesn't

matter okay then just say that just say

that then just say that i don't care

shut up i don't care okay i'm trying to

finish my point

i think that people who put people in

concentration camps minority groups

should not be involved in any active

combat zone anywhere in fact they should

not even be allowed to hold government

yeah positions and i'm not finished and

so you should stop talking and so with

that in mind and knowing the when you

guys talked about all these war crimes

and everything that was so terrible yeah

i think it's weird

that one of the the people involved

currently in fighting the ukrainians are

the same people shoved people in

concentration camps yeah

also yeah it's weird that you are fine

downplaying your guys nazis you admit i

guess they are nazis fighting on behalf

of your guy's side you'll downplay your

own nazis and upload the other size

nazis because your nazis again are

inconvenient it's inconvenient that

there's nothing

and so instead of being like there's no

nazis on our side these nazis are

fighting shut the fuck up shut the fuck

up

no it's my turn

it's my fucking turn it's my fucking

term it's one last time it's my fault

dylan's talk too much it's my fucking

turn let me clean let me wipe the

fucking floor with this guy okay wait

one second all right i i do want to give

it a brief chance and then destiny i

know you have a point a couple of points

you want to make so in fred i want to

give you yeah yeah let's go so the first

thing is very clear dylan i know that

you're in favor of a nazi pan-european

supremacist but lgbt friendly uh

ideology i already know that okay but

the fact is i agree it's probably true

that there's a homophobia in chechnya

they're very much more in favor of more

traditional values that's their business

as far as concentration camps are

concerned i've seen no fucking evidence

for that throwing them in concentration

camps but even if i were to grant you

that that was true that still doesn't

make them fucking nazis who want to

exterminate whole peoples because of

their fucking nationality or their race

or their ethnic origins you seem to

think that's not as bad or that's some

kind of equivalent right but i don't

think that's a fucking equivalent i

don't think having a conservative

country which i don't agree with um

persecuting sexual minorities i just

don't think that's on the same fucking

level as being a goddamn fucking nazi

you seem to not fucking care about that

distinction now you're saying that i'm

downplaying the nazis on the russian

side because they're not convenient

never mind the fucking fact that in

terms of the objective significance they

have compared to the fucking azov

battalion on the ukrainian side they are

nowhere near as fucking relevant they're

not significant

they are marginal crazy they are

marginal they are objectively

objectively marginal they are

objectively marginal i just need you to

i i thought it i i did send something

too it didn't seem like your volume

oh yeah 20 seconds ago it did seem like

yeah because you're making everybody

louder than me

no no i promise somebody was that right

i know how to do that yeah i mean these

people in my chat

people in my own chat are telling me

infrared i can give you 20 seconds in

terms of wrapping up your point but then

i've got to kick it over

is making the claim that i'm in that

it's just inconvenient for me rather

than the actual reality being the fact

that the russian nationalists and the

russian neo-nazis are completely

marginal in the dawn bass whereas the

azov battalion are not you mentioned

something also about lukashenko's

out-of-con

comments that were taken out of context

lukashenko is an anti-fascist 100

anti-nazi 100 anti-hitler we can

actually get into the nitty-gritty of

what proves and backs that up too you

took some statements he made stephen is

waiting steven's been waiting for a

while to respond yeah so just to

reiterate again the asshole battalion is

not making up the brunt of the fighting

forces

incredibly small

this is a this is a small battalion of

like less than 3 000 fighters the idea

that these people are making up the

majority of ukraine's forces it's just

not true and even obviously only a

minority of these people are neo-nazis

even even even of the azerbaijan

minorities go our nazis there are

problems there for sure but this claim

that there is a broader nazi problem in

ukraine i mean at this point maybe there

is if we're defining nazis as people

that are pro lgbt and pro-semitism i

don't know what kind of nazis these are

or what makes them nazis aside from

earlier you said they kill people

is it is they is everybody i don't like

hitler wasn't going for like

pro-european supremacy yes he was okay

did you really just say he wasn't going

for european supremacy in his last

fucking speech he talked about how

europe will be triumphant against the

hordes coming from central asia

europe who europe who every member of

europe every state that he needs every

group he was a european supremacist he

was a western european supremacist he

considered western european

civilizations

and everyone else to be subhuman

would you characterize the nazism of

germany as having a large anti-semitic

component and having a large ethnic

component where that ethnicity is not

defined as european

aryan is literally western european for

the nazis that's literally what it is

okay

okay because you're a little bitch and

you never fucking defend what you just

said because you're fucking wrong let's

have jackson go ahead

i i would like to just say one thing

really quick and then uh in a broader

point so uh destiny seems to be just

hyper focusing on the aza battalion

which yes is uh you know making up the

brunt of the violent uh you know

aggression against the people of donetsk

in the hands which keep in mind that war

81 of these civilian deaths that have

taken place there in the past three

years uh took place on the side of the

netskin lahansk uh but as i mentioned

you know the people who literally led

this coup are the ultra nationalist

right-wingers many of whom but not all

are

anti-semites and encompass this neo-nazi

uh you know ideology you seem to be

leaving that out and um you know i can

guess the motive why why

uh to to get to a to get to the broader

point here destiny a few minutes ago you

said that

it's not okay

for and i'm paraphrasing so if you want

to rephrase this after the fact go for

it it's not okay for

uh troops to come into a what you

recognize as a sovereign country

um and you know forcibly bring about a

change of power i think

that's you know we can both agree right

so why is it

that

you think that it's okay i guess for uh

these far-right paramilitary groups um

that encompassed this neo-nazi ideology

uh to hijack the maidan protests uh

massacre people on february 20th when

the protests were actually dying down

and people were going home

and caused all of this violence to

spiral out of control and then

when negotiations are going on between

some of these neo-nazis and the

yanukovych government to try and bring

about pre-term elections to restore some

order to the ukrainian government with

yanukovych um the neo-nazi factions

again like andre uh perubi who was the

leader the commandant of the euromaidan

protest

uh he ordered upon his paramilitary

individuals

to continue blockading to continue uh

you know holding their ground so to

speak and holding their ground

throughout the entirety of this protest

meant raining down hellfire upon both

protesters and police to incite more

violence and there's been countless made

on leaders and activists who provided a

testimony that they were the snipers it

was not members of the ukrainian police

who were doing it

wait so

do you not believe that yanukovych

ordered his special military people to

fire on protesters you think that's just

completely and totally

bullshit oh one of the one percent

there's no evidence and in fact the

ukraine's ministry of internal affairs

literally says this much where do you

why do you say there was no evidence of

that

uh because the ukrainian investigation

into this the special investigation into

this they wouldn't be biased at all

um

they wouldn't be biased

people who are involved they have no

reason to be biased

because yanukovych wasn't even given

guarantees that he wouldn't be charged

that's why he fled to russia unlike the

unlike the prior prime minister that was

able to have a transfer of power because

he was guaranteed he wouldn't be charged

yanukovych wasn't given

that's why he left the country point

here as to why i'm right not really also

earlier you said you keep deciding the

fact that you can't you can't you keep

you keep citing the fact that you keep

saying that in the east wait

i barely talk this guy's like rambling

so much i haven't responded to half what

the shit guy said that there's no

evidence for this

question

so you said uh you know there's there uh

i why do i think that there's uh no

evidence for this or whatever so the

ukrainian investigation uh they didn't

find any and in fact again there's been

several madonna leaders and activists

who provided testimonies while four 14

self-admitted members of the made on

sniper units admitted in media

interviews uh to the madonna massacre

to sniping police and protesters uh

several former members of the georgian

military testified that they and other

groups were made on snipers in hotel

ukraine where these bullets were coming

from um and the investigation actually

proved that bullets were coming from

here they just never actually went to

the extent of saying who is in the hotel

right i do want to take it over to

stephen i do just because i i did give

you a chance to answer the question it

said jump back there's a lot of evidence

so if steven wants the full answer you

know he should be willing to get the

full answer

there's like 20 different things i

haven't responded to so

who who's who's finding goalposts i'm

not changing you're the one that's

adding a new goal post at the end of

every single sentence you've said you

literally said whatever i can't i can't

even respond i can't even respond okay

hold on wait let's okay are we doing

this right now is this what we need to

do to get the conversation going um okay

so who do you who do you side with who's

ruling what organization what

government's ruling do you side with

that said that that police did not fire

upon protesters during the year they're

you're making

what what uh what side do i side with no

who whose investigation are you citing

who's whose details whose findings not a

one-off media interview that was to be

ordered i'm referring to the testimonies

given by

uh the snipers themselves testimony to

who why would you only agree why would

you only look at some testimony why

wouldn't you look at the overall ruling

of the ukrainian interior ministry

because the ukrainian investigation did

not find that they did not place fault

on either side though according to the

testimonies themselves they admitted oh

my god

why don't you look at the fucking nazi

ministry he said why did you look at the

post coup ministry to fight

know if it was there i don't think it

was their role to charge anybody

anakovic already fled the country

it was their role to place charges they

didn't place charges because they

couldn't find evidence that there you go

um in fact

the the reason why

why can't you why can't you give me an

answer for this there were testimonies

there were testimonies

that

the maidan uh you know pro or the maidon

organizers uh were the snipers who shot

at police and protesters

uh we have forensic examinations as well

by government ballistic experts which

determined that about a dozen cases that

the protesters were shot from made on

controlled structures including the

hotel a forensic ballistic examination

um found that uh the bullets killed

protesters did not match bullet samples

from the police i mean i could go on and

on why are you why are you making uh

assumptions without looking at the

evidence itself because i would i feel

like i would rather rely on the overall

rulings or findings of the entire

committee rather than just trying to go

off of some of the testimony that you

might have found given by some of the

officers that may or may not have been

involved well i could go on more but you

have to understand that this committee

at the end of the day is being

controlled by the coup government who

actually carried out

this operation but earlier you had no

problems going by information that comes

from the russian state department about

stuff going on in ukraine

ask the nazis if the victims were

actually looking at guilty investigation

fairly and honestly and you made the

accusation that it was police from the

ukrainian uh you know security services

that fired down now you're getting

caught in a little uh you know a little

problem here so you're trying to deflect

back to earlier discussions why did you

make that claim without evidence why did

yanukovych flee the country was when he

wasn't given a guarantee that he'd be

prosecuted it was the true government

that was gonna fucking why did you trump

shit up the subject there was a coup

government that was led by the guy that

he was gonna make his prime minister

anyway destiny

i just want to say one last thing on

this point clearly you're refusing to

acknowledge the uh reality of the

situation most people consider uh what

took place on february 20th when 49

individuals were killed as the most

controversial hours in any european

conflict since the end of the cold war

it was the precipice for this coup it

was what launched all of this conflict

uh into action so to speak so the fact

that it was a false flag attack led by

the uh coup uh protesters themselves the

the militia organizers themselves to try

and get western backing and to try and

incite more chaos in the streets when

the protests were dying down is a very

very important note when you look at the

broader context of all of this and the

fact that after the coup that took place

because of this

that is what sparks the increased

aggression in the donbass and that is

what also sparks the increased

aggression against protesters in odessa

who are fighting back against the coup

government

there you have no evidence to support

any of that that there was western

backing to any of these people that any

of this was a false flag everything

you're going off of is complete

conjecture the testimony of one or two

i've got testimony in the united states

of bigfoot and ufos abducting people the

testimonies of one or two people doesn't

prove any of the claims you're making

um let's just actually go to u.s

involvement in this because i have a lot

of uh quotes from actual diplomats

themselves who admitted that they were

involved in providing funding direct

funding to the madonku organizers so

first of all we have victoria nuland and

jeffrey piazz who were two u.s diplomats

just let him fuck over destiny

he's destroying destiny

he's destroying handpicking the coup

government and that conversation where

uh you want to send you the link to it

no because i've already read the entire

conversation they don't what did that

conversation say they never said

anything about hand-picking the new

government it wouldn't even make sense

really yes really give me the quote

where they say that do you want to give

me the quote where they say that yeah

read it okay uh we have a leaked phone

call here they said fuck the eu

referencing to the fact that the eu is

not being aggressive enough during this

whole situation uh and then we said uh

or we have a victorian newland here say

uh yachts referring to yatsenyuk is the

guy who's got the economic experience

she said referring to opposition leader

uh arseney yatsenyuk who backed the

devastating uh neoliberal policies that

were demanded by the west so they were

discussing whether or not yatsenyuk was

going to be an effective leader in the

new government and they were saying well

maybe this person should be directly

outside of the new government with the

attorney and destiny guess who ended up

becoming the hold on real quick because

you keep pivoting asking questions

none of this shows them picking a leader

as you said yatsenyuk was already the

opposition leader where is this idea

that they picked him he became the prime

minister

for after

what do you mean

yatsenyuk yeah who was already the

opposition

he was already the opposition leader he

already had 370 plus votes in the in the

parliament what do you mean andre

peeraby was the uh maidan coup leader he

was the real opposition where is the

where is the evidence that this guy was

hand picked by the united states that he

was pushed by the united states a

conversation about this guy saying he

would be good when he's already the

opposition leader is not evidence of him

being hand-picked by the west

oh that's that's not a sign that their

hand station

is good yeah they're going back and

forth

there you have no evidence this is

everything you do just destiny or how

does that know

wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait

if there's evidence in the phone call of

two diplomats saying man this leader in

this country would be so awesome and

yeah that other one sucks do you think

that's evidence

it just so happens destiny that she

admitted that the us uh stoked this uh

coup with five billion dollars in

previous years to lead these regime

change operations wait where did she

admit that

read that quote read that quote where

she admit that okay i will give one

second here can we all sit in silence

while he reads and wait for it i want to

hear that quote where she says the

united states sent five billion dollars

in aid to stoke this coup

let me pull it up and if he pulls it up

will you admit you're wrong

yeah if he has that quote i would be

interested in hearing that

we don't have to be silent i'm sorry

dylan go ahead

give me one second

exactly where the five billion dollars

went i would be interested in that too

in the meantime folks our guests are

linked in the description if you haven't

uh already clicked on there you can hear