CONFRONTING POLITICS DRAMA ORBITER STREAMER [2022-02-20]

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european barbarians w my european barbarians wre my european barbarians my brutal my ruthless eastern european barbarians my ruthless european barbarians where you at buit differently than thesese americans

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eu you tub takis what we saw

how many people in this shadow my you tube barbarians how many of you all came from you tube how many all came from whichs for which one from you tube once if you came from you tube to to be came from which but a my barbarians look at my you tube barbarians buto the my you tube barbarians and we're bringing more brothers back we're going to bring more

brothers back we're going back to our homeland and we're going to bring more brothers back and talk with the shit already fucking fairly well with three hundred sparans just imagine what army's going to be when we get more loyal followers we get more littal spartan from you to the p ss chid logic fucking liar telling us that it's oftroen twitch

no one's fory that goy sow logic he said you all from twich he said you are not from you tube he said y all a d g g he said i share my viewers with those fuking politics nerd piece a shit what you show s my you te barbarians god we're here we're not wwitch viewers we don't watch legal legends we don't watch chest we don't do that nerd shit were

t barbarians in this bridch one hundred percent politically incorrect t barbarians in this briach the domesticated twitch viewers

got another fucking place i s to on nobodys to the destiny i ser on n of these fucking people i don't share my viewers with our relevant and all these fucking people i challenge s logic to show we shared his viewers with but the boker pulls it up red ben chera burnse hundred percent of the people he shared his viewers with are

g orbiters all this b the focus viewers comes from bethiny bethany boll sex sweat sops on the floor and they all fuk and strug to lick it off that's all these fuk and fuck and better mal bters do all these fuck and bter male streamer orbiters that's what they do be that he walks he takes a far and they rush with the ar to get his fart part of

s and they compete over it all relevant logic all these foking people that's all they doy bll sad sweat falls on the chair from his gaming chair while he's playing legal legends and you got some t tickn all ber all rushing to grab it i'll grab it all bunch of buck and bottom feeding pieces shit bec im in their league

think i'm like them think i got anything to fuck and do with them right but's bottom feeding fucking beta males think i got a god thea have fucking thing to do with them right don't know what kind of army we've got now do they know what kind of army we got now do they

buckt bottom feeding pieces shu i put to it this is notal stand you ant totand three hundred sportans and it's going to turn out differently than thld ones w in the shit on needdpendent political streamer here besides assad and destiny himselfs destiny and has the rest

peasians bt feeders ma orbitters and they think i'm in the same league as them they think i'm in their fucking league community thiscurre our people our people they think we share it with them we're build different over here we're b different over here

i learning were the hon we don't share shit this is one army one cohesive unit so let me give you some background context

male destiny orbiter sd logic has decided he's a drama let me tell you who this guy is he used to get on hundred twenty views and then he started to learn that if he plays hot potato with starst and are relevan in the rest of the fucking orbiters to get destiny's views he can rig up something right get some views in

his bitch right he could pull in some viewers doing that shit so he decided to go from a politics stream or talks about politics to somebody who talks about drama and he covers detiny's personal relationships he covers random this is the chess club drama and you know what you want to be a drama streamer fine whatt you cover drama that actually fuckt matters wt you covered ny drama adend

fine what do you do thk the chis club drama thets cub drama oh my god did you see what mindy said to you stad did you see what eugene said did you see what eugene said about miranda did you see what eugene said about barbara oh my god he said her braces were not even on he

her braks were not even correctly aligned and he said that her contraption and her mathematical calculus was completely off the mark oh my goad and these people think there cool bing it's a cool kids clubs and scol of society the big fok the losers come and congregate start crap players and they think there the cool ones

illsen

'm it you see did you see what barbarreast said about mind the other day and that's the fuck and drama what's a fuck and losers sadic the shed who got bulled ton school and you got tt wrong the bullies are right because bullies are toing evil that bay wse notes are evil s

so thick scum and the bullies are protecting humanity and protecting society keeping them at bay yeah you don't know that you din't know that that the bullies are protectors of humanity at the ridge keping these fucking nerds at bay the scum because you see what they do when they have freedom they go online and become d g g right

all these people in chid logic chat talking shit to me band kids the band kids the fucking band kids that's what we're fucking dealing with here so let me tell you the background to this fucking drama right chid logic

he's a dick rier right all he has is drama that's all he's got right all he's got is this fake drama right so he hops one to another and he tried to create drama with me wll you got whath you ask forch look like aay you got w you fucking ask for but i think we're going to fuck regretted by the end of this

he said i'm sick of you complaining about viewers i complained about viewers what once maybe twice one week ago in a foking week i haven't talked about it and then he decided to bring it up again right why because i talked about birss nothing to do with

complaining about low viewers i even complain about low viewers all i did was an express chark listen my gorillas we're going into enemy territory and remember one equals not one one does not equal one you understand

you see a viewer you see a chatter they may look like you

they're not one of you these are fucking d g g destiny's fucking people every single one of them are d g gvery s one of them are d g g we've got ty viewers that are loyal to him do not ever forget this is a paper fuck insire all fuk in destiny's people and i'm not a lot to say slurs and that protects them

because i have the perfect one for every single one of these fucking people bunch of fucking destiny orbiters punch a fucking destiny orbiters right like i'm one

of them but were equal much more equal like we're equal right like we're equal the difference is my your coor you even have a fuffing core you got a bunch of fucking crums from destiny you've got destiny's fucking crumbs you've got detiny's

ca sweat his shit he leaves on the ground that's your fucking audience my people are m they're my people my spartans understand so we're going to call chudlodge

and he's going to explain to me why need to see expert on my streams a he's going to convince us that i have been spending most of my time streaming talking about viewers and he's going to explain and defend all the claims he's made he's made a lot of bucking claims he said i'm a leach just like him so i tught the destiny yesterday

he leached off of me thaty orp it's me he came in my chat he rdomly put my stream up on his stream and i left you want to what s logic this fk said when i confronted him with the facts he went how highes you're coping what let me tell you

something i had zero hours of sleep i went to bed at seven am could not sleep could not sleep so at eleven i decided no i'm going to wake up and i'm going to fix my fuck and sleep schedule i'm resetting my sleep schedule i'm fixing it now waking up a four pm anymore that's what we're doing

i got some shit in my pocket nose givem me a second what gm out the s beach though i goud the b butd

k some my m is goochingsh but se the isk the bibary again b we call you stuty b co

is going to know their fucking place they're going to know their fucking place i'm not part of the politics tois communityy own fokus sumer by my own right but to get buck and destroyed but to get bucking destroyed chidli

he's about to get destroyed

here we go

hey man as a go what a bitch

been talking a lot of shit h

listen i got a question i think a go question go ahead jo logic

are you autistic

are you autistic

weereard logic according to twich's terms of service we can't talk about that oh i'd love to talk about that knistov

we we're going to get in trouble one of your beta ask d g g people going to report me so best keep t you

bett to be b best best to be clear let's best keep off those topics might best keep off those topics might

and i might judge your deficiencies if you comlmed up and showed how you actually fok and look right but you don't do that which is why you hide behind a foll picture don't youach logic

i don't let me tell you some of thse logic ally what you to intervene in oll business nw don't you you to intervene in americans business now don't you what happened the last time what happened the last time you british came in intervene in o american business to logic what happened the last time

oh that's a logy into the oper ok go that's right so logic that's right so logic strin that's right so logic remember the last time so logic i'm going to i' i'm here to remind you

so log like i'm here to remind you ight

i'm here to remind you

i'm here to remind you

all right

oka go ahead scha logic now i want you to explain to me

the past week of my streaming what have i done tor logic the past week of my streaming go ahead

i'm not really looking to talk about that i'm not really looking to talk about that but you're claiming you're claiming that all i do is complain about views how many times have i complained about it was exactly think i said that that i i just i was just saying this youalalt logic please let's be polite tea and crumpets when is the last time i complained about my views

yesterday's stream you real about it please pinpoint the exact time in which i complained about having low viewers and that was the subject of what i was talking about

was that the subject of what i was talking about your logic

i watched it onstream when you were complaining about the fact that viewers are dropping off and you caing have to do some sort ofh was that what i was complaining about

and the i com was that was not even what it ok what does it mean to complain

what does that mean

well complain i mean i don't know it just means to like

m i know what the definition is

ok what does the wint right you're saying i'm whining and wch say you' saying i'm whining and bitches what exactly does that mean what does that mean are you you kind of wine in a bitch you knowll this n way i was you know you're expressing pain right that's what it means basically right

does it mean express your express you're expressing some kind of discontent and some kind of pain is that it

yeah express yes yes f that is that what i was doing is that what i was doing

uh ya i'd say that pre oh really really

soce is it yeah sure so that was that's what i was doing right

yeah

ok aphning

and you didn't listen to a word of what i said and you just a you just said that's what halls is saying and then everything else is cope correct

onen i did listen to what you were saying and there's other times i've cheuned in and i've seen you know if you listen to what i was saying so what what exactly sparked and provoked meation what exactly ok t logics go on exactly what exactly sparked and provoked me

to go on the speech that i did yesterday what was it about

i don't it specifically then you don't know specifically so shut your fuck and mouth because you don't know shit

so i don't if you don't even know what i was talking about how do you come to the conclusion that i'm whining and i'm complaining and that the subject matter is my low views i tell you what come to that conclusion are you stupid in your heads are you stupid question question are you stupid in your fucking head are you stupid in your fucking head missted the shit out of your dumb ass

yeah last night i rosted the shit out of your dumb ass ight going on a tangent

because of how much you were off the mark about what the fuck i was talking about and now you're doubling down you look like a fucking idiot

ok let me explain cann i gt gohead explain

ok there's two things so there's another stream that i saw

where you were talking about the fact you're on he had like three hundred viewers and they were your spartans

yeah and then you were complaining that they were off watching other people

and then you brought up a asan video like is this what you want is this what you want to see me just reacting to a san

and that was obviously you again what your view so so let's get the story straight chd logic why don't we get the story straight so what you're talking about is one time

when i return you ca to do the logic to logic to logic

skd but no no no we're being sophisticated here we're being sophisticated it's the one time i came back from los angeles

and then i was surprised that the matter has appeared to change on to which

and that i really didn't i was kind of directing directioniss at the time because i came back from los angeles and i realized you wow the things people are enjoying watching this is kind of discombobulated a little bit so i was talking about it i was talking about my surprise that i was getting lower viewers than usual and guess what as a streamer ud logic i actually know what i'm falking doing as a streamer i'm not a fucking d g g ubiter who leaks destiny's ballsack to feed his fucking a

family and pay his bills so basically ch logic i actually pay attention to these things in real time and i was thinking well what audience am i addressing

who am i speaking to exactly what kind of contents should i make my stuff around these are all things i take into account so i was a little surprised

that the that they had lower viewers and then that was completely it and then the day later and literly one day later i go live and i said you know what guys i'm not talking about viewers any more

because i know what i'm doing now i'm going to go through it and then as simple as not and then i never mentioned it again

and then

the thing you reacted to was when i was talking about explaining to my community that they have to be especially vigilant during this purge but you seem to have been confused logic that i was talking to your dum maass and that i was addressing you and other beta males of the d g g community other beta mail orbiters is yourself other b other beta mail or such as yourselve insane come on let me speak

go ahead speak wek logic speak you seem a bit trigger ust so you now sings what so you are empowered by this word soy because you were bullied in high school because you yourself were a nerd and now it is revenge of the nerds and eugene and used eugene used this and barbara and mindy are teaming up against the chads and now they're the real chads because they can call them soy so now you feel empowered now don't you

empowered that now you're going to call people right now you go't you're goaning to call people sow and you're going to callt people betters and you're using the very words that used to hurt you and used to you used to be bully by against the bullies how empowering i'd like to tell you how tell you how give a round a pause a roaring round of the paus logic that go ahead you finished if you've quite done excuse me the red cooats the redcoats are coming

let me speak what's going onhead speak speach to logic speak

just calm down a little bit bd will be ok right ahead speech i they

the twelfth of february

normally you stream for like three to six hours yeah this stream

ani stream for zero point seven hours so that that that was the streaming question that was indeed this gentman question

and i see youre two hundred forty eight viewers now a little birdie tells me

that you were coping about the fight you didn't have enough viewers so you ended your stream early is that true that is literally the stream we are talking about

but is that true so you ended uspt stream early because you yes you was is that correct yes okay

right

so you are coping when youbt of enough eers correct

no

agen was i coping when was i coping

so if you're ending your stream because you know a few is that a cope is that a cross and is that a gope ok is that a cose andes that me does that mean saying

that that ok i'm going to i'm going to running through this chard logic because you can't listen to logic all you know is this word cope this word cope is so you just tell me why the words cse and i s you the word is ca is it's a cope for stupid people the stupid touch cope i can't

you s su logic sudg and blhing out i mean i got to help youcht there's multiple possibilities multiple choices tod logic a

o guy

could have decided well not enough people are here

and i want to save contentialta i'm not going to stream too there's a possibility i'm getting lower view as than usual so i have to recalibrate

and reconfigure my streams and figure that whlle thing out and come up with a new strategy and i'll be back to morrow

so there's multiple possibilities for why what does that have to do with coping what is this thing about coping

well listen it was characterized to me differently do you know who j p morseman is

no i don't give you forok

ok

he's someone that doesn't like you very much so i took it with a pinch but but he has soucked my coalk in the past

oky

so my child he's been he's been to my chid so can my call give a chance to speak does he want to get in v c ok on does he whatant does he want to get in v c

maybe i don't know because i just g i don't know why you fk bringing them up why you fuck and bringing them up st

because i'll te you right now whre you bringing up your random fuck jat i get youu cho you o you charge do you know argentina em

no i don't me thinks they're a little bitch

okay good luck to him

anyway so you want more chaters you want more chaters you think you're a little bitch or what

ok let me explain whathy you know you know iller wi ninety eight is ac and i'm trying to help you and you're lashing out a youre heling so helpful lo lot ho you're so far and helpful oh i'm actually friendly toward halls i'm a passive aggressive piece of shit destiny nerd and i appeal to d g gv s plese please approve me you guys like me right you're not going to leave me anytime soon right and i'm just pretending like i'm with i'm pretending like i'm friends with hall

but in as a matter of fact i always i'm always pass aggressive and i'm secretly insulting him behind his back hous doesn't even give a fuk but then when he starts lying about how we got the problem on our hands now don't we

it think we're friends i've just always had like a level of respect for you and i really really lose i that a level a level a level of sneak thiss i me behind my back talking shit about me on the downows if you we tending mchl friend was on me because you don't like confrontation was that so logic

well i'm talking to you now aren't i because i've made some comment right because you need the conju you need a conj because you're a drama streamer because because

the quite the fact the matter is tou logic your drama stream and that's all you fok and have yeah

i am a drum streamer correct so ok let me ask you sw you a bon th thebout ho the but

i'm going to throw the boney ok so j p morseman doesn't like you right

so he said to me

you ended the stream angrily because you didn't have enough viewers so i thought ok i'm not going to take j p s word for it because he hates hars i'll go and watch the vod myself

but the vot was deleted and i couldn't find it

what was that about

of course i den't et a word

it was pointed why would i funking leave i bought up

i s i regretted dreaming that day

right ok

so i couldn't verify what happened at the end so i don't know what to believe really

but it just is funny to me that you delete the vot of my guess is that you were ashamed how much coping you were doing on the ilieve it one second after ending the stream you fuck and liar she di it because you're so embarrassed about bes i dolit know one second after because the stream had no content

it was literally me in silence waiting for the viewers to and then at the end i said ok there's not enough people today i'm going to leave

right so i laugh

what why would i leave that oto what content is in that v

why would any of my off flight what would my off fly you ok what would my off fline doers gain from living at this on

it's embarrassing that you'll sat there looking at what your viewers are watching over than you and you din't want people to see get it odds i have up

where i comments on i commented on the low viewer before i left those ones up was n content in them if there is no content in a od i delete the vod you fuck an idiot

this is a new level of schitzo posting you are seeing what your viewers are up to because they won't wtch you nnew

k are you talking about

i can't tell because of what's been hold on

so you're saying so they can make up anything they want

and you can say it's true because the water is deleted correct

well there is a website to recover to me itvault isn't that

am i couldn't findose viewers have i have whose viewers have i checked to see what they're watching

whose

i don't know i someone told me in my chat but they must be telling the truth then correct they must be telling the truth correct i'm not saying they're telling that you are such an honest person chuld logic so much honesty so much what i'm saying so much honest logic i so much honesty anywhere so you can't find it anywhere because it's focking to me so so if someone says i ah

flushed my cock out and started whipping it around on that stream i guess it's true because the vaud is gone

impentable logic chi logic impesable og it fits in with all you other cope about viewers that you would do that so really really if fits in in my spe really what have i done what have i done specifically about that

of when i have actually complained about viewers i en the fking stream

ok

so what n no the's ever time so much so hold on hant hold on hant yah so if i

even if i'm upset about low viewers and i decide to end stream and not stream that day

what exactly is wrong with that

i mean there's nothing wrong with it youud because i'm not in the mood and i don't have any content to provide anyone so why should i do i have to stream

when you do to do anything but i'm just highlighting chief the reason i made that segment is so maybe pattern when i had sut the buck up when i actually do go live when i actually do go alive you fuck an idiot

i actually give my people content and i don't bitch i don't whind and i don't fuck and complain when i actually do stream

ok

yep

i just give them content and i get to work otherwise why stream

i get it this an intervention you lashing out let me help you so what was what's the intervention what's the intervention

the intervention is you need to stop fucking doing it and focus on you doing whats si you what you know actually

you want me to be calm we can be calm right

because all you guys have to cope is houses angry houses on hens ok we'll be calm and i'm going to logically walk you through this because you're a fucking idiot you're a dumb fuck

we're going to i'm i'm i'm going to walk in it i'm going to walk you 'us not no i'm going to cak calmly calmly you are a fucking you're stupid yeah ok you are with fok and i needed to i need chair to walk you through it

ok

i'm very nowc so longst and so ok i could be calling staf

go ask

solum

you saying i need to stop doing what exactly

um basically i just think that when you

kind of coe post the like you know month old drama stop the h

the vibe i'm getting is that people it not interested in that you call audience might what is that what does that have on what does that have to do with talking about viewers

well that links together doesn't it if people are kind of bored of what you're doing it they're going to stop watching and you get less viewers ohh so you're trying to say that

my content is the reason i have love viewers

a part of the reason probably this well even e a the firstugt even if that's true

what exactly is your point that's what you think why should i care

we don't have tea

but you're saying hold on on you're saying you're raising this point

let me ask you a question

yeah

i have my own explanation for why i have lower viewviewers than usual and i'm i'm a

i myself am what it's my business right

it's not like i'm here begging you or asking you for advice or help

when have i asked anyone for advice or help

especially not from a beta male orbiter like herself who's a drama streamer and not only are you a drama streamer

but you're a streamer who stdreams about d g g and destiny related drama

which makes you even more fucking pathetic

why would i ever take advice from someone like you when i'm a guy who produces their own independent content

unlike you you don't have any independence right where i actually t smiles around you you just as a corbitter right

i actually don't get a lot of viewers from zurcho believe it or not ok

i don't i have zerka people in my chat they like me i go on zerka's royals every wednesday before we went on that l a vacation and we don't do the royals any more

but how do i orbit zirc i rarely ever mention zirc on my streams i actually pred i'm one hundred percent self made

yourself made ok what about your debates for destiny and vosh and stuff at the stlot then

who have i not debated i will debate anyone

buto my point you just saying yourself made but you yet off the back of debating

oh that's how i got exposure but my community is my own i'm self made that was my exposure by the way

plenty of people have debated destiny and oh

and have never gotten close to getting to my my level

well from what i understand you were quite beggy you in their d m s trying to get a debate with them well n

let's roll that back from what you understand i was begging destiny or and or vo right

yeah course yeah you w you can you please show me the d m specifically

because i have i have a secret for you what and you're quite desperate there's a desperation to talk to them

jud logic

my stok when i first when i first debated destiny and wash

yep

did i d m them

at all

um presumably it's some d ms for them but yah how else would they found out about you

the wonder how

what are the other possibilities for how voch and destiny might have been

impressed by my presence to the point where they agreed to debate me

just what i'm going to give n the just and if i'm no no i'll give you no i genuinely want you to have a dig at this how did i debate destiny and wash

how did they know about me how did they find out about me

h i don't know listen to be honest ma i'm not follwedr content like to wait wait but sub logic there's a pattern i'm noticing you just made a this is the lot of thing that the destiny orbiters do you just made a claim

and now you're saying oh i don't know and i don't care but what about the claim you just made does that mean nothing now

well the divide the vibe i got from what i heard the vibe you

yeah it was the vib you were like begging you know trying to get on destiny so o so yes or so some p i have a question so i actually don't know in two thousand and twenty two we cannot assume do you consider yourself a man

yes i'm a man don't worry aboutan so i'm just just out of curious i don't know maybe it's a cultural difference in the u k possibly

do men in the u k do they hide behind what the chitchat of discourse

when they figure things out or they act do they actually come to a conclusion independently based on their own thinking

and well i tend to do my own thinking and you know i just kind of look you just touh you just hold on hold on

but you just made a claim about me

and your your rationale and your justification for making that positive claim

was the vibe from what people were saying

did you actually seek out to investigate it yourself to see what the truth was

well the only way i could do that is you know

message destiny involsion be hey kind of look you at the ms with has and i wasn't really interested in doing no you actually be actually actually you wouldn't even have to do that all you would actually have to do was look at the first vods of when i debated them

ok

so i'm going to ask you again can you take a crack at guessing how destiny of wash first debated me

but if it's not through their dms you're probably in there chat hastling them i guess

was i doing it

h your view is what that's exactly it sd logic so by the time by the time it's not e is there and it's not beggy then it's not begg agat and absoutly not them so by the time i b oh i go ok we're going to we're going to deal with the co we'll we'll deal with this word cop in a sec don't worry i think you should calm down a little bit you're a little onchd you're a little bit on him

becus might so funny so'sd logic so'sd ot me speak

ll allow you to speak you may speak you may speak

yet yet beta mail chod logic who are you allowing to speak again

you

if i already had an established audience

that could

be so prominent in their chat that they're going to debate me

was that

does that maybe hint to the fact that i was already a successful streamer that cultivated

quite a big relatively big following for how

quickly i sorted out

is that an indication i already had it i it as you could tnd ten people over to a chat and it would cause an impression even in a b was ok how many viewers did i have before i debated bort and destiny on average i don't know two hundred viewers something like that

now it was it was less it was honored

ok there's one hundred viewers yeah yeah you can build up one hundred viewers without really speaking to anyone in a substantive way sure

can you name me how common it is for people to be able to do that build up one hundreds all on their own i built up one hundred viewers without speaking to this really you didn't cover their content

i covered the content but coe did of course but i didn't i talked about my own independent things and cultivated one hundred viewers

i didn't have to cover anyone's content

all i did was challenge people to debates

afterwards after i already did all these theory streams esoteric bullshit

so chod logic i am one hundred per cent self made

you can net you will never have what i have that's not true one hundred viears isn't self made that's good

but what ma is theing destin what you can just which i me which on me which on me exposure that's exposure that has nothing to do with whether i'm a fing orbit or leach or not is so chd logic and orbit really off destiny bos loads of course you these expos any more me or youse please comle down sd logic you sound going know you're chimping out you sound quite not

butout

right but inkking to destiny you don't want to be like that halls guy and raise your town now do you upstream twice as long you don't want to raise your town like that halls guy do is because in thes it would be child logic it would be my impression

that if you want to play the game of raising tones you would not be tuss at that game so you best

lower it simm of your voice down a little bit and let's have a tea and crumpets little little lum i just want to answer to my questionborug who has spoken to destiny more me or you i have debated destiny

far more times than you have

yeh

ok because i'm relevant one so let me actually address the point that well that doesn't address my point let me address the point that because you' fucking bak on yours in these

he was in your chat yesterday so you bringing so mats some mats to each big spo on on good ons

sure sure

so

it seems you're quite you throwing quite a rocket can you cae si of your voice down to logic

you're saying i begged dely chillb when destiny any time i ever want to talk to destiny i just join his room in his discord i don't have to ask him to talk

i don't have to ask him anything

i could just

join his room right there and talk shit right to him

destiny respects you

i don't care

ok

he respects me far more than you cleally because

he actually orbits me

youll but she does a house interest and she lit sh well because when i staw on my stream yesterday he decided to randomly cover me and just start coming in my chat i he wasn't even talking about him whose destiny

i think he probably did that because he's board planned league and heard you would do i so is i that is that why when i first started my stream without saying a word

he just put my stream up and just showed my stream to his jat

yeah exactly he's bored looking for content

aoutust so why why doesn't he show but why doesn't he show chid logic when he's bored and looking for content

why does he do any other

hees wh why doesn't he play all relevant or chid logic or star dust or any of the other orbiters it does sometimes but i'm really i re you name mean he sen when he's done it but can you name a single time when he's played you up

for content

yeah

yeah i was betting lunch from the surfce and ow

so wait it was during a debate not when you were just doing your own thing

wait that wasn't part of it why you do you think you think it was because do you think it was because of chid logic or lance from the surfce that he was covering that content

i proably a bit both i'd say i mean what about percent percentages maybe sixty sixty forty what how do you think he wasn't jt but he wasn't just suching launched f i think the word we are looking for chid is you are coping

because you are foking nobody that nobody gives a folk about

and he glanced from the surfce as someone who has a history with destiny

so that's why he was

covering the content nobody gives a fork about you because you are no content

leach

barnacle bottom feeder andy

you have no cont eugusta fucking a trashy drama streamer for the nerds in the chess and robotics club

and that's all you are on switch chud logic you're and bucking nobody you have no content of your own you're absolutely worthless if you stop streaming

no one would care because they would just go watch any other number of destiny orbiters and there's a bountiful plenty of them

but guess what if i stopp screaming

there would be a gaping hall

in which just as those

the a gaping hall

in your mother

the other night would be a nice w you toalkt my mother's whole that's a bit weird

well i'm just making a

observation

ok

of all this hall have you seen it

unfortunately i have had the mispleasure of hesitation there what's that about

it's quite embarrassing for me

ok

anyway child logic

anyway you're speaking about how many views you got right now boddy how many views you got

or i started my stream forty seven minutes ago so i have i only care about my three hundred spwns i have three hundred spwns and about two hundred two hundred and sixty four destiny beata males watching me

so you've got your spartans and everyone else is just destiny betamul is that right

quite right

ok

bam

that my suck

no i like my three hundred sparwtans i can rely on my three hundred spartans they are mine and only mine they are loyal to me if i tell them twuplus tw his five

it's exactly what it is

i don't have to answer to anyone

i'm completely in uscare the're mentally ill uscaus they're mentally ill oh well that the army of the mentally ill seems to be growing now doesn't it

i mean yeah it does

but that's not good thing

hey list w are you going to

op and complain about it perhaps why don't you make content instead of complaining chud

have you ever considered have you ever considered for a moment

you are the one complaining about my screams and i never complained once

while you complaining you remok me some advice ll so when you cover my content you're not complaining

but when i just give a speech to my audience that they might give a shit about

when i ve you shf many views you've got for myself to complain like no i don't care i just oh you don't care but you're compsing when you listen but clearly i think to me well based on the tone of your voice and how you were speaking has why are you doing this stuff man come on why do you need your ca

it kind of sounded like you were complaining chud logic and you were bitching and wiring and complain i'll tell you what i'll throw you a bone oka i am a hars viewer i'm an infrared fan ok ok and i was very disappointed with the nature and direction the content is taking that you just complaining what w cringe what is the

what is the quite change in in content as of the past year have i

when have i never cared about petty small things

well no i mean you have cared about pay we all do right but it's the nature and the fact that you stark talking about it endlessly the stop the til stuff was just cringe like you care so much about

half of an interview so you speak as an impartial horse viewer

and not a destiny sycophant who must appease the dezy viewers and fit in with them correct

well this interested w make you think i'm a destiny sycophant whe does that come from

every single one of your viewers in your chat say fifty to twenty to fifty core viewers perhaps are all from d g g every single one of them every single one of them

every single one of them

right

yes i got to the be been a destiny sick fant like what does that mean

well can you talk some shit about destiny perhaps

um yeah destiny'sh twitter presence is absolutely unhinged and he's very inconsistent in saying he only goes after people that go after him that's not true sometimes he randomly just goes after people even his even our relevant will have a critique of destiny here or the are relevant is the smigle of dety right

that is the reek of second you sad you said cha about destiny and i just did and that's not good enough you have not td not going to have the point i was making you have not shot s about ho thiss you ca called desiney call destiny a beta soymell beach boy call him that

destiny is a soy beta bitch boy male is that is that we want to is that ok tell call him that to his call him right now and be sincere in it talk some shit to him get him to dislike you and see what's going to happen to your viewers

get and to dislike me what the folk unless i there was some to test a test to see if child logic can withstand on his own

without having destiny's viewers

rop up his stream

can you stand on your own without sten why would i just go and insult anyone randomly

like was going insult them for no just just just to make a point just rely my just to make a point does it make any sense just to make a point why a point imuch trying to make all right what about ok let me ask you a question destiny and hoana

have djji engaged in an endless campaign of harassment sadistic bullying and attacks against anna

so basically ma has been in my chat and there' be a number of times when i've hat to say look guy stop fucking going offter and you didn't answer my question

has the destiny community in behaved in a ruthless anti human road sds a way to have they have they

can you actually give me a straight answer chd logic or are you going to know give me your question are you afraid i are you afraid to lose these viewers by answering the question honestly

have they engaged in a relentlesss targeted sadistic campaign of bullying her

or over a year

i don't think that's true because i don't agree that ah i see done that so you have can't say something i don't believe that doesn't make any sense you don't believe it how convenient that you don't believe the thing that would lead all these people to foking turn on you and hate you interesting chad logic you see chard logic i am the king of my own court i can say whatever the frock i want

but you have to walk on egg shells without upsetting de gee gee i can tell dejeee to all line up in a congo line stretching the entire american landmass the entire continent a big congo line each of them taking turns to suck my cock and suck my knuts and i will get away with it and i don't care what they think about me because i'm a self made man

doesn't have to pander or appeal to any one i can tell every single person in d g g to literally lick my ball sack

literally lick my ass and i can actually get away with it because guess what i don't rely on any other community's pool of viewers i have my own pool of viewers that i got from you tube

on my own i brought them and imported them here

and guess what's notort logic

yep

you have never accomplished anything remotely close to that all of your viewers you share with others you share your viewers with all relevant and stardust and chery and all of those other destiny orbitter beta males quite intriguing now isn't itd logic

well i'm interested actually what does your like shared viewers look like on twitch then

the most shared viewers i have is with jackson hinkle my ally practically a brother to be

my alli

and also zerka

coming close so there we go youer robter yeah exactly that's what we're saying

no because jackson and zerka produce vastly different content now do they every single want of the youzerk orbitter if it' like you say to me hod not holl that i won't be taking it there youre let's easy pasy we english love to use logic easy pasy what you are getting quite

rancorous

why don't we calm down and ho youre you don't you want he already b dot yout want to make hol on you don't want to make a sh p out you don't want to make these noises with haws because

he can quite outpace you in a game of barbarism now cont on so let's be civilized let's be civilized

and let's use some good old fashioned bertrand russell english logic oka

so go on if i if every single one of the people with whom you share viewers

our destiny orbiters every single one of

ok

that means you are also a destiny otor if i share if i share viewers

if i share viewers with a diversity of people jackson hinkle johns among others if i share views with them that proves

that

my relation to those streamers is based on the independent merits of the original content i create and you cannot actually categorize me as being a jackson or zerko orbiter because jackson and zerko are clearly very distinct and different streamers so clearly if i relate to both of them

that says something about my uniqueness and my originality have this basic logic let me logic now isn't it less the less i'm going to use some logic on you ok diect some classic anglo logic go ahead is n hag go ahead to logic go ahead

sy you accusing me of b destiny orbiter destiny isn't even in my shared viewers on twitch i'm i'm accusing you of being a circuitor orbitter

and zirka is in your shared views on twitch but somere actuallys actually having diright having twiitch analytics say that you directly share

destiny's viewers is quite immaterial when every single one of the people with whom you destiny al which analytes do say you share viewers with

are in fact known d g g and destiny orbitters are redest make any sense that's why he said it so cheritys cherry a reay sim is cherry a destiny orbitter

what is a concept what i guess sk is like what about all relevaness what about all relevant

h somewhat i guess ok somewhat i loss you can all give me a straight answer that's ok t and crumpins will be reasonable thing is is like that's ok you can't give me a straight answer that's that's ok

so let me ask you let me s ok let me ask everyone else sam oneay or another so let me ask you a question let me ask you a s question

okay yup

if every single one of these people are somewhat destining orbiters what does that say about you that you share all of their viewers

what it says to me is that we will make similar kind of drama type i see what you you are the in you're the thumb that sticks out you're the one who's independent

what makes you so un logic i don't i didn't come from destiny's community i kind of have done main things has been on the platform

um

yeah i just don't know how that when i say to you chevka

and you're not apparently zer corbt it makes no sense

i'll just explain to you the logical explanation for why itn't logicalz it

why not logical is why not

why not whatook is it

because it's a very simple line you having to draw you like doing the courtboard you like doing the skitzo cortboard with the string everywhere so it's a little too complex for your twiny little brain to handle nw isn't it

but what i'm saying to you is you share

vi with becaus which is go youor but even if you shaed he's used to you he's rated you like us he has he has rated me

maybe once or twice ever because we don't stream ok the time in the hours for which that would be been on a show a lot ofne like a lot

thesery i go on every royal every wednesday

yeah and i

so do many others exact and i'm quite i'm quite popular on that royal buts too i'm quite popular on on that royal because of the merits of the content that i actually produce independently

well that doesn't matter does it you still going on it actually does matter then so i share every week and ian ask that's fine no shame ok do you know what it all but to means do you know in allb but to means

yeah orbiter normally refers to someone in this space who you know orbits around another creator spends a lot of time with them gets ready oh i see sends time with them personally etc yeah spend some time with them sensly what

yeah you spent time so is is hassan a mischif orbiter

yeah i'd say somewhat like ih sure we're alling with we're all open thing each other in a wonderrous and brilliant

cosmic harmony right

what what a great co what yes what s sp you're just going to change the definition of ollp butter to be anyone who has anyoner s any other san overture of so hold on on

you are a destiny orbiter and i'll explain to you why actually ok

because the overwhelming majority of all of the viewers that you get come from d g g you share those viewers with other destiny orbiters and that's why only a fraction and percentage of viewers that i have are shared with zerka and even a big et the dot

an even bigger percentage are shared with jackson hinkele who and those are completely different people which speaks to the originality of my content now if they were all the same if they were all part of the same community the zerka community and every single one of them had had the similar content of orbiting zerka

then yes that would make me a zirko orbiter because

the logically it would point to the very likely fact

that i'd produce the same content of orbiting zerka and his personal life

but the truth is is that on my streams i talk about zerko

quite precious little i don't by barely mention him i barely talk about you don't need to on a panel with him every week right

as of the past

three months that that has not been happening

sure but like you know you're my channel has not so

let's let's let's do a way in o shall we the past three months there's been no royals

ok

so let's do this little wager

i want you to do three months without

doing any of this

ah

political twitch drama where youre taught appealing to destiny's viewers no stardus no arerelevant no destiny none of those people three months

ch logic and let's see what happens to your channel

why would i make content that people ok what should i do what's your recommendation

praat hope you pray tll praay tull

you make your own content and don't react to others just make your own

you can react to other sometimes for like a small percentage but for most of it

only make your own content cover news talk about three theory

talk about aesthetics

ah troll debate do what you want but do not orbit the destiny community for three months and see what happens to your channel

if wlant to listen to a voicse from you your streams going down the toilt isn't it

by your own definition chud logic this was according to you not me according to you not me

i'm doing just fine actually

oka fair enough well the thing is is i'm not really interested in doing that i make content that i enjoy making

i see and so hold on this is quite interesting

you enjoy

the drama of political twitch

yeah absolutely what is so captivating about the drama of political twitch please pray tell what is so captivating about it

why do you enjoy it so much

do you you actually care about desty and honor you care about that

m no not all i don't give a shit about that to be honest

and that's the type of content that you cover

when have i covered destiny and honor at length

tell me the terms of cover destiny ana did the month of january when everyone was covering right that's what you were covering too

was i

doesn't ned me but indeed you were what ate was i covering that then

i don't have the exact date

ok i can have my compuary go

how many strings about it did i dayckon

enough for me to notice that you are indeed covering destin and adraw that's interesting that's interesting it's indeed interesting yourself look like a bit of an idiot here

so because i g you did you have don ons on you no

even if it was one stream in which you dedicated to destiny know it's one thingedn hang on the n no you' just totally move the go posts w happy to admit over i covered it once on stream at length so did did i did i mention the number of times in which you covered it

well no but you were saying that i was covered how many times has youre making up

let's not raise our voices let's not raise our voice snake you're pivoting you a st nwun you st barbarian youus il you are unhinged you are absolutely unhinged

i did not mean w you me whyve in the go prace how many how many time you better keep your quiet voice because you don'tm

if you wan sixp sorrow why would you want to compete with hars in a game of being rancorous and barbarous we should keep our

indoor voices now shouldn't we

i mean i'm fine i snt angry ok ok don't be i i was watch stream before you can on you cae down it cale down come down is to calm down a bitscet cale down cale down

now we can get to it

how many times has

as for infrared

covered

a drama about destiny's personal relationship

go ahead proably not very much i wouldn't imagine

a not very much or not at all

i mean i ta not a tos what he stretching it because you know i know when you met up you were like you know almost sucking him off with how much it was was i talking is that exactly what was happening

yes bit spineless in that you talk a lot shit about and then you meet him in person and you're kind of try to be his best friend kind of pathetic in what way was i trying to be his best friend go ahead explain you were sort hanging out with him and having a laugh and having some banter you know you definitely trying to be as be his pal i i thk what fair that' that is something ily do with everyone

ok

almost every talk shit and then when you meet up with them you act like you i did talk shu i talk shoit right to his face indeed i said he was a beta male who had a beta posture

he would not look into my eyes

and h he didn't do anything about it if you did it with like a smile on that you weren't like doing it seriously right it was all b bans it was do you hold on

do you think i actually care about destiny

well you care enough him you can enough to call him yesterday who is destiny to me

go ahead explain who is destines to me

someone you've relied on to grow your platform on twitch

and how have i relied on him exactly

by having debates with them by you know meeting up with them later in the stream

yeah i mean you know so g so have eyes have es pfm is that anyone i won't want to ions is that anyone i won't debate

probably not i'd say you debate most people you know for being a mass debater most most all all that it won't give me bond on thich all was it most or you debate well yeah you probably debate anyone i'd say sure that's correct that's correct

so who is destiny to me exactly he's a person i've debated of with whom i care nothing about personally

i care nothing about him personally

buty clearly i have i have personal gripes you would tend to care when you're with them for the cloug i get it's so good

care about what

what do i care about i din't care about him but youll p been a pally with him when you met in real life right because i don't care about him

whathen am i being pally at all

what am ere going to be

i'm either going to be

ah funny with someone for my extreme content

or i am going to be aggressive what has destniny done to provoke aggression from me

what is he not to provoke additional he does must be rolling it quite hard last night and you were kind of just taking it

you' got to be angry in what way was he trolling me

re he didn't give a shit about what he was talking to about he was just doing it to take the piss out of you

at one point he got up and walked away from his desk

is is that enough to provoke aggression or is it about lying about me and talking shit directly about me is enough

you know think that someone sens you explain what's going on and then they walk away from the desk while you're explaining that's pretty disrespectful isn't it

do you think destiny is capable of disrespecting me

destiny destiny is capable of disrespecting me

it takes ten minutes in between sets

destiny is incpable of disrespecting me

destiny

destiny who has lost every single debate i've ever had with him

and has submitted so pitifully i feel bad for him

and all he can do is say

ok every time i bet him in a debate that's all he can do

why should i ever feel disrespected yr destiny

what could you do

right

like you ex clear well i mean well so how ovius you don't but no sorry what going to say i do but i don't and i do but i don't can you starp mumbling and stumbling have sometimes was a it's atracting thing i have someth incples and speakt aor sions here on apex chill o you you you are not speaking with the elegance

and candor

of a true gentleman i'm sorry i'm trying to play this game when you distracted me i said what was going to say to you listen just listen to me and exxplain ok

i'll stop playing for a second

what i'm trying to say to you is obviously you claim you don't respect destiny but your actions suggest otherwise

he is partly responsible for your exccess on this platform you being all pally with him no no no no no no no i

personally speaking

have

n i have the same amount of respect that i do for destiny as any other stranger i would afford any other stranger the same amount of cordiality that i did to destiny

and that's all he is to me he is no thing to me personally and that is why i do not care about his personal life

and i don't think you care about his personal life either i just think

you cover it in order to attract his viewers and gain viewers from it

that's what i think

ok

i mean yeah obviously well wyci why did you have dodan on to speak about anna what is your chud logic's relationship to anna and destiny us as it concerns their personal life what is your relation go ahead

well the thing is you know i was speaking about the other thing because some of my chard asked me to i was really interested i see so someone in your chart asked you to see you're actually and the person in your chart

what interest do you think they would have in wanting you to speak about destinana

i mean obviously they're interested in in the drama of it right so you think it's probably likely that they came from destiny's community

h yeah course indeed so you just admitted that you make content based on what destiny's community tells you to to do

m not necessarily n i i take feedback i see what you just admitted that the reason you were covering the content was not because you liked it or you were interested or you enjoyed it but because destiny's chart ordered you to

uh no one person who watches my quite a lot

also if you so if if a desgately finish youor you' going to keep talking finish your sally and point go ahead

ok so basically the point i'm trying to make is yes someon i avoid it for a while someone i know from like uss community said oh hey can you cover this can you cover this ca this i said yeah sure cover it

and i did

um and then dan came on and we spoke about it

and yeah i kind of realized the was a bit at my death because i hadn'tcovered it i didn't know what was going on

i thought i'm not going to cover this again that was interesting so if

so

so since you called me a destiny orbiter if a destiny viewer came into my chat and told me to cover

destiny's personal life

would i

probably not but you've got it in a different way you've got it through debating him

oh i just actually have my own skin in the game and i have my own horse in the race you spin aisan by any chance did you speak to erisan

she reached out to me yes

ok what did you speak to her

a few times actually she reached out to me to have a call i called her i was in a podcast with her and zerkers

and also she was in her voice chat with destiny once and i was there

so yes

what did you ppickure about

the the first time i don't remember i t call accused her of being cia because she works for some weird satellite company

and

when youj seaks about destiny so

when i was in destiny's v c

nw did you bring anna on and speak to anna about he destiny at all

no

okay that's interesting

i've never i've never brought an on to speak by destiny

you so you i'm not asking that that's a little slippery

i'm asking if you've ever had anna on your stream and while she's been on your stream you've spoken about destiny

i don't recall

oh now you don't recall so before it was a no and now you don't recall interesting probably not probably not no

probably before you were so certain when you could you know mage i'm going to go ahead and with certainty say no i don't remember that no

right ok that's interesting i read i just as a lot of p when have i had it i on my street when have i even had as a lot of people well i had on my showdown if you're referring to the showdown we did not speak about bestey at all no

ok so you've never had anna on your stream and spoken about destiny no

right ok that's interesting go get the clear beoe back to that goet p the clip

indeed tell you tell your d g g beta mal orbiters to do better

um

is the stream set available can i check it myself can you send me the link to it

take

to what stream

the one we're talking about with ana coming on can i review it myself can you send me the link

i don't even remember when anna was on but besides the showdown

right okay

that's interesting what the folk are you talking about chd logic

well it's just that you know

from my understanding is that you did have aver sun on your stream ok point you did talk about destiny and you did talk about his personal life

so you know i just without the evidence i don't know what to do you know you're saying you know it it's a bo taste lie i never had her on my stream to talk about destiny ever

the only time i and it mentioned her in relation to destiny

when i when i was talking shit to destiny and table the the

the benchwarmer a football benchwarmer

him and errisson were a call in the room ange and i was in the room

with them

and indeed

indeed

someone mentioned something zerka brought up something about heres an being cheated on or something like that

and i joined in to talk shit because we were all talking shit they were talking shit to me and i used every right now that so the truths coming out now ok interesting that's public knowledge yeah

and i live yes you have in your consent

spoken to everyson

about

destiny correct no because i was destiny was there so i wasn't speaking about destiny i was talking shit to him

ris and tabor

three and one tello

damn these goal posts are moving so fucking quick i can barely keep up

so so is there no qualitative difference between

dedicating stream content to another man's private life

and roasting a shit out of another man and his ex girlfriend to their face in a voice call

is there no difference

in your in your i mean those qualitatively thisr your complaint is that i'm talking about destiny's private life on stream y saying well you do that as well and you're you know wiggling your way out of it like a little one all the other forms in which we did that qualitatively comparable

well what does that matter that's not doesn't matter it doesn't matter if they're qualitatively compatible if they're not qualitatively compatible

then why bring it up

because the point is you're saying you're criticizing me for speaking about the right i'm of specific minds of usy yes i have i'm criticizing you you hols being a destiny orbiter

and when i'm saying you have to all of a sudden you turn in no no i have not i have you i have not i have not because there's no qualitative comparison between the two

now writ that

i've never what this quality i've never incurd wires really i've never inquired and done deep dives and commentaries on destiny's person life i don't give a fock about destiny who the fock is destiny

i've not done any i've not done any deep dive dedicated any entire stream to destiny and s relations stream and inire stream there i

it was an entiree stream it's oning wid stream

i wasn't inentire stream to i watched the conversation doann came and we spoke about it and that was and you had another man come and speak about his perfect excellent

excellent another man come and speak about it

and you're not an orbiter

why do you what does that matter

i don't care if people think i'm anorbiter or not so what was the latest drama you've covered you've lost undert if you can i'm saying that i'm saying that if you're going to call me an orbiter that makes you a double orbiter because you spent way more time interacting with talking to and log at the logically logically let's break that down yeah

if i debate destiny

yep

as i debate anyone else

and if i talk to him based on contexts he's raised and he's created not me he's created

which means he was orbiting me and i merely defended myself and retaliated

right and i've never initiated anything with destiny

practically never initiated anything with him

who's the that you wait a second you sent your chap to hassle him to debate you right

how is that you not instigating

in the very beginning i was looking for more exposure to debate anyone

so you're looking for exposure so you went to destiny's door to get some exposure correct

i'mv she's and everyone else's

yeah exactly that's my point but the thing is the thing is that's a mak that's that's exposure where i have an opportunity

to

address his viewers

and sell them my own independent brand

i don't knowll about goblin

i don't i don't latch on to destiny

and thought appeasing his viewers and appealing to him and becoming

part of his community and his ecosystem

i never did that talking about is it there is a qualitative difference ok you're very stupid so you don't understand logic and i'll break it down for you

there's a big difference between gaining exposure there's nothing there's no shame in that nothing wrong with that

gaining exposure

and then having your own independent content

and

leaching off of someone else's content for youir own content and that's all the content you have

that's interesting i've just found this vod here destiny anavoir drama debate star dust versus john zerker and infrared what's all this about buddy well that was on zerker's

own show

when i was on zurta call withirka on his dream

o so this tm and i'll

the all this is the fact that anna was a regular guest of the royals destiny decided to pop in the chat on zirkus stream on the royale

and a whole lot of drama is created from that

that has nothing to do with me what does i have to do with my streams i'm on the royal im a regular on the royal

ok i mean you are still making content though in regards to

drama right

no i'm not

it's not my content i'm giving that content to zerka what content is that of so basically what you're going to do is you're going to use every tactic to slip out of it oh it's not on my stream but you're still on a panel that you go on regularly talking about it so you are making content ho on out the drama the creme de la crope here

is that even on zirkus's ream and even if i granted you that you saying i'm sleeping o don'tre i won't sleep out even if you granted you that

i didn't even talk about destiny

all i referred to

is the harassment

anna was getting from d g g because anna was actually my friend and that's not enoughing to do with destiny now

it's immaterial anna is my friend i knew annaga so anna was my friend i was defending my frid you friends with anna how did you know who anna is how did you meet anna

she was on zoker's royale

ok and why was anna on zerka's rouse

what is i don't know

what does that have to do withh oka

it's my i would t the kreminin crop of this whole thing

is that before that before then

i didn't even know that ann i was involved in destiny i had no idea they had any relation right you found the excuse it's clicked i can say that right got it it's it was on it's literally a fact

ok so you had no idea it was involved her destiny she was just literally not you literally not right literally not

what i here's how i heres here's the relation i had to honor

anna was someone on the royale

who you know we would have banter with and they they represented like more of a liberal

you know psychiatris' type and she used to joke about pegging and shit and we used to go back and forth with banter and that's what i knew anna from i had literally no idea

that she was never involved with destiny whatsoever

ok

fa enough

them

wow you like mr fucking mamgoo wandering around twitch not knowing whos so what's going on that's literally true i don't know anything about fucking what goes on on twitch i know about zirk i know about slicker

and i know about a few others and the rest are in hassan a little bit too

but he's f in some pow off them i get it yet

when have i leached off of cloud from any from a slicker i don't i just was a viewer before

but anyway

let me ask you a question

so

you were basically getting very frustrated in a sead you saying hars you're using all these slimy tack i'm not frustrated i'm fin you're worming your way out of this what's actually going on side logic is that it's being calmonly explained to you

that you were indeed wrong

about all the things you said about me i and i am actually correct about all the things i've said a know so

and i know you operate thisy thing you do is a win for you i get it it's coe it's so so you you ca that's that's fine you can say it's cope when we get into the meat and potatoes are trying to actually mes when we gett to the meat and potatoes of actually trying to assess the premises with which you use to arrive at the conclusions that you do i come out victorious and you complain about coping well then we just in an irrational loop

aren't we every time we get into the meat and potatoes of the logical premises behind the conclusions we draw and i come out victorious you're just going to say that i used witchcraft and i cheated

so then how how do you set about to justify your conclusions if not with the logical use of thinking

as your premisse how do you even come to conclusions in the first place if every premise challenged as to the conclusions you draw to

are going to be it's going to be accused of cop it would right

well let the audience decide on that one i've got i don't i don't that's only that's operating with the assumption that's another logical fallacy that's operating with the assumption that popular appeal is actually going to determine logical consistency and rigor and truth

ah when the hoor i'm just saying that you know let the audience decide what ok ok let's ask a question whose audience is indeed bigger destiny is audience or my audience

destiny's audience is big is destiny's aud so much does des justiny's audience have a we're going to get to that to does have a bias in favor of destiny or they a completely neutral audience with which to to you know i mean what i'm saying is you know we're not going to get anywhere you know we'll let the right us so what you're doing so so as as a as someone who identifies as a man what you're saying is

i'm just going to hide behind the crowd and i don't care about the principle of whether i'm correct or wrong

i'm just going to i'm going to hide behind gests audience

well you know what youus what you're basically telling her what you're saying let's not raise our voices inside voices

what you're basically saying we're basically saying to me is that

i've lost on this but that's ok because destiney's audience doesn't care about logicalstead of lost on this ys thes audience you're saying destney's audience doesn't care about logical consistency or truth

so i can get away with it by appealing to the audience because they're still going to side with me regardless of how this plays out

ok well i' tell you what let me ask you about something else ok what about this video that you did where you watched destiny in the gym what was that all about

what was it about

i don't know i mean you know going to the gym

this is kind of personal

stuff right is at the gym and you were watching it and critiquing him as a proportion of that stream how long did i cover that

um well as a proportion of my stream how long do they cover the anodrama i mean it's irrelevant right

like no you're say you i was right ight you watched you watched his jim streamer mcquinking i did i did

ok

so yeah you're watching his personal stuff too and going over it right

no destiny for context

is someone with which i have debated about and talked about about

the metrits of going to the gym and destiny's a nerd who represents nerds and i was actually interested to see what this nerd who's having a go at trying to lift

is going to look like because

people have clearly critiqued me about my lifting and all this kind of stuff

so i was more a little bit curious thoh based on my own curiosity

that's one stream out of all of my stream it's probably the only time i've ever done anything remotely close

destniny's personal but then again it's not very personal when it's just a public gym stream it's not like he's venting his feelings or talking about his private life

or relationships

i mean i could have easily watched anyone else's gyms i could watch a gym stream

by hasan i would watch a gymsream ha on as a matter of why did you pick destiny then to watch specifically because he was the only he was the only one doing a gym stream

right ok oh on hod on hod on that it there is something we have to point out that's actually material to this

the day before i watched destiny's gim stream

he had actually talked shit about my physical appearance so in context all i was doing was basically defending myself

yeah sure okay yeah

that's interesting

it's quite interest watching destiny's personal life

ins not his personal it's not his personal re it is his personal life right like whing to the democrac is broadcasting it

of course it is you know it's not just i thing to do with all it's not anything to do with anything beyond i am i'm an obsessive lifter

it's not his personal life it was a lifting stream a gym stream and as a lifter as a gym goer

i was you know casually giving some comment you know casually talking some shit and then i moved on

because i don't really care

and

it's as simple as that

i mean

that's not his personal life that's a gym stream there's a huge difference

yeah he talked shit about my personal appearance a day before so who initiated what we'll see

right

so i'm just getting some clips through it looks like here that you're digging into it a bit with aasan and talking about destiny

was this in the vc with destiny or was this a different occasion

it's a different occasion please link the relevant clips in question

yeh of course no problem

link you in aur in obviously go ahead

right

that

so immediately you've been disqualified this is john zirko show

so it's not even on my focking show

this is literally on zirkas channel

what does this have to right ok

immediate let's actually see what i said you no we're going to see what i said too because let's actually say what i said

because clearly this is your

this is your damning evidence it's not even on my channel it's not even my content it's on zirkas

let's actually see

what is what i actually said let's see

steven tends to keep people on very good terms so if they

decide to distance themselves

from him literally on my phone for the first

ten seconds i'm literally on my phone not paying attention to it let's continue

them dumping themselves

so what you think your time is going to be up with us we

it's my choice

so they're they're already talking about destiny

i don't even know what's going on like cases sot literally look a look at how hilarious this is

i'm literally on my phone not even knowing what they're talking about and let's see what i finally say oh really i thought is his

not can remain in his life

on findly terms for as long as

ok ok i did previosit saying i don't know if this is too personal so let's see what i said

gtter w t w

what the farck is this you can't hear anything

ah okay

yeah

so i they were talking about destiny and i was curious like

what about destiny makes him so

yeah that's all i asked

it's o okay

inch then

so basically let me just get this straight

yeah it's not on your stream so it doesn't matter no and when you watch destiny's gym video that doesn't count either

right no it doesn't

ok

and there's i mean logicallys almos trying to find ways to not make it count but it's all logically consistent

ok very is it not logically consistent

um i don't really know what you mean by law you can't you can't play you can't play the card that it's unfair

when it's literal logic it's just logical consistency

logical consistency not useful that is're twisting yourself into a prett so to make out like you know interest but that thread so at one point up one point a prez so can no longer be consistent it falls apart

right

so you're falling apart right now try ton you please pinpoint the exact point in which i'm no longer

logically consistent in my position

ok s you made a number of claims

you've made the claim that you don't talk about destiny's personal life in any way and you don't really count i don't

i'm outsarted debating him and i pointed out you watched the gym stream of his

ok saying that which is not his pers you i said you dodn't care about pirth but thats destiny it's so you don't're not interested in him that's not his pers you asking a question to his ex girlfriend about what yes yes like both of those can be explained the first one

the gym is not his personal life

second of all

he was talking sjust about my physical appearance beforehand

ok

secondly regarding the destiny what regarding regarding the question i asked to aisan

i did ask a question to her morbidly curious about what it is about destiny that makes him so controversial among all these women

because

everyone was talking about him and i didn't get it i don't know why everyone's talking about him

and that and i was on my phone and there talking while andm i was clearly not interested

so if i am asking a question that basically amounts to why are we even talking about destiny in the first place

that is clearly alluding to a lack of interest organic and spontaneous interest on my part

of having any interest i don't i am not interested in destniny's personal life

so i'm now curious why is destiny's personal life

so worthy of being talked about i was curious and that's literally all i asked in that clip

that clip you thoug that he went to like a press so so much jesus

oh so can you explain how it's twisting into a pretzel because i didn't conform to the conclusion you draw without actually

thinking critically about the premises with which you used to draw the conclusion i challenge your premises

you came to a conclusion

and i and i debunk it and then you say i twist myselfin

would you would you would you have to establish tu logic

is that

my accusation of you in caring about destiny's personal life by covering anna drama

is qualitatively comparable to the examples you try to give that you are saying is the same thing the clearly not the same thing i mean from a common sensical perspective forget about logic

even if in good faith you used common sense

there is no comparison

between me covering one gym not even the whole stream but a portion of a gym stream and then in another instance asking why people are talking about destiny

there is no compartison with

between that from a common sense perspective

and you actually going into details talking about the relationship between destiny and anna there is no

there is no

comparison whatsoever

i mean i wouldn't say i went into details especially especially especially on especially when we establish especially when we establish and this is really

where it becomes indisputable right especially when we establish

that

there is a clear precedent for this deep obsession of the law and all the details behind

the interactions and relationships between destiny and anna

that every one in the political twitch community seems to be talking about and mind you what does this even have to do with politics that's what i still can't wrap my head round

at what point does this actually have anything to do with politics because i understand that politics is not enough

to satiate our craving and desire to

have a semblance of a normal life and talk about normal things but the problem is that chad logic

these are not normal people your drama streams are not the drama of normal people

it's the drama of the it's the drama of the robotics club at school it's the drama of the band club at school band camp

right

so you're going to just keep talking or you know any so so so so

if you were actually someone who was worth anything and you had your own content to offer

you would be able to

cover normy drama

but you can't do that because you're a fucking freak and a nerd right so you you have to create this insular political twitch communitee where you generate your own drama

the band camp

a chess club drama do i generate mind drama or dous talk about everyone else's

what you mean

you talk about everyone else's drama you general drama with me im s it's not your own drama because you were just reacting to me because you think i'm

part of your political twitch community youth

the problem is i don't share the viewers of the political twitch community my viewers come from youtube i created my own community

ok

so

here's the thing right

indeed

my point is really simple

you have spoken about destiny's personal life before

on stream or an other pieces of content

ok

so you have relied on destiny for debates you are at least somewhat of a destiny ter no no that's not you belive that's true ot logically speaking my is really simple you've got to do a echm right right right you so so so just because it's so just you i mean that's a logical f make your point w just because your point is simple does not mean it's correct

ok and i can explain to this so child logic

you are you

a hars orbiter it is going to speak again forrom on all you a has orbiter

would it be fair to call you a hause overton

and i think so i've spoken about your few times on stream oh but you've spoken about me before and you've debating me now so that makes you a has orbitter not doesn't it

ah well no because i'm debating you now and i've got like nine hundred odd viewers yeah that doesn't matter ok so now you're twisting yourself into your pencil

introducing shifting the gold boz in introducing all of these variables that we didn't initially mention in the simple point that i raised so you see how you actually have to bring up

other contacts and by the way don't say nine hundred viewers

i will grant you that three hundred of my viewers right now at least

i' probably destiny d g g people

probably only three to four hundred are just my people you know how long you go on i'll i'll grant you and they do know i'm doing your favor i'm doing you favor i'm not and i'm not granting you nine hundred fort hours i'm granting you even

three hundred of my viewers so that's twelve hundred you have twelve hundred viewers i just made a thorougay comment about my view is why you say both about what my views are i'm not i'm just trying to give yous i'm trying to calmly explain to you that how many views if you go

they're not your viewers i have three hundred views if you go three to four hundred of my viewers

n know how in tow how many viewers have you got no six hundred

oh ok

interesting

yeah that's immazlittle trill

three to four hundred of mine

i've got three inred more viewers on you does that bother you

you have twelve you have much more viewers than me you have nine hundred

plus the three hundred you have twelve hundred more viewers than me right now

the problem is

they're not yours their destinies

it's never been under contention that destiny is a bigger screamer than me it's never been under contention what should me right now

so that my view is right now you think it upsets me that destiny's community would rather watch you than me

well

no probably not but i'm just saying i know you're a bit sensitive about your viewers haven't spoken about it you think you think want do you think i think

all viewers are the same

qualitatively do you think one of destiny

how many of my viewers are are worth a destiny viewer to me

all s other thing as well as destiny's life right now and i'm still managed to sustain you know around nine hundred viewers which is pretty cool how many yeah he's only got three thousand

how many of my viewers

rit how many of my viewers

to me

are worth

a destiny of you

how many of destiny's viewers are worth to one of my viewers to me

im at the night

one hundred

one hundred

ok want to know why because my viewers a sre explain my viewers are loyal to me

ok

those destiny people are not us they're not loyal to me

so they're worth right me they're not worth it maybe that's a you problem because destiny's gone live and i'gh still sustained you know eight hundred fifty nine hundred viewers

because destiny's playing league of legends

a removing the gold piece again excellent o oh oh wait so any time you come to a conclusion and it gets challenged by a variable you did not take into consideration

that is the equivalent of moving the goalpost is that what you're trying to suggest

well no i'm just saying that it seems like when we have a simple point that we make

yeah and you introduce twisting into a print it and it becomes and and it ceases to become as simple

as you believed it to be

that means we're twisting it into a pritzel

yeah i'd say so yeah i'd say that's pretty accurate

so but i just i just gave you an example

maybe five minutes ago of how

by your own qualifications you twisted yourself into a pretzel

by bringing up a variable that was not included in the initial simple claim

ok

sorry go run that over again so i know i'm bit stupid so can you s you us me so you are making the claim i any time someone jumps to a conclusion about something

and some one brings up a variable not initially taken into consideration of the premises with which to draw that conclusion

you are saying that's twisting it into a pretzel right

what is when it's an irrelevant point to what we discussed so please so go ahead and demonstrate its irrelevancy to us explain why it's irrelevant use reason

okay well it's a very simple point i'm trying to make to you right no no no we know it's simple but you have to you have to

address i mean i've made a number of point why why has the pointpin why the point action ye yeah

saying that your point was simple

i am trying to work with you saying that your point is simple does not address

the alleged irrelevancy of the point with which i raice now if you're going to say that from a commonsensical and intuitive perspective

that i'm overly complicating it you can go ahead and try to make that case

but i would say that

since intuition and common sense are going to be deceptive when bad when faith is called into question good faith and bad faith

we cannot actually appeal to common sense and intuition because my common sense and my chad's common sense is going to differ from destiny's ak your quote unquote chad's common sense so we do have to use logic and reason

to uh sort this out

because

there's an issue of faith in question now from a common sense perspective right

from a common sense perspective

it's very clear

that i make my own content and i'm an originally wst to question but you still talking we let me raise the simple point

it's very simple to go i make my ways ofbt going on i have my own brand

i rely on my own content i generate my own content i make my own debates i have my own analysis i have my own

a theory and coverage and news and all that kind of stuff

that i make right

and it's very clear that you're a different type of streamer you react to the drama of the political twitch community

which as destiny

so that's a very simple point

one no no not i mean i made quite a few itvide is critical of like it you're twisting yourself into ap pretzel it's irrelevant you're twisting yourself into atzl you're twisting yourself into alltzl let me ok twisting yourself into ap pretzel twisting yourself into pretzel

i know it's difficult for you because you're really upset wait wait wait wait wait hold on hold on

i want to kick cuts that i know i know it's difficult for you chod logic because i literally just marked you right now

it's not that it's difficult for me i am more than willing to passe out every wich detail

every wich intelligible detail of every point you make

i was mocking your reluctance to do the same for me

and saying that i was twisting myself into a pretzel every time a variable not included in a forwarded conclusion

is is raised

so that's the whole point

you said it's difficult to me when i was literally just mocking you

of course you can make the claim right that oh well actually it's more nuanced and it's more complicated and and it's different

but

by your own qualifications how is that not twisting yourself in a pretxel

so all i'm trying to do

is demonstrate

that you are guilty of the things you're accusing me of

but every time i make a salient point

you pivot off and you add all these provisos ono it when you so it's not the same solify

me

debunking the salience of your point as pivoting off and running off to a different point

every time you've proven to be wrong you just say i'm cheating and i'm twisting myself into a pretzel

well you are though because you're adding these provisos to try and make out like you're not doing the same thing that i'm doing when you clearly are because in some cases a because it's not w way more than i have wait wait because it's not the same

when you admited it's not the same

well no the point i'm making is you accuse me of mins destiny orbit for the record if you want to think on'm a destiny orbits and that's up to you i don't really mind and you're saying that i'm a st or s because i did him before and i covered a moment of his gym stream

right

you talk about disney quite a lot i'd say i don't know exactly what percentage of you streams but it's definitely been a big part of your hold on so hold on hold on hold hold on wait w wait

that is a new claim then

if that claim is salient and holds up

if i do indeed talk about destiny quite a lot

and quite often

yes but the thing is that the it would be true it would be true that on a dott b is the problem we've got ok yeah

so

when i've said to you something you you've sleid to me you talk about destinys private lif s that i don't really talk about that much but somewt i do and then when i sad make the same point to you you go no i don't and then i say what about this time you spoke about it oh no for this reason it's different what about that time because it is that all for this reason w it oh so you're saying i see what you're saying

so you're saying

when i accuse you of talking about destiny's private life i'm not referring to the qualitative and specific point about

how you're covering his private life in a way that is unreasonably excessive for someone who's not

orbiter

you're trying to say that

i'm making this kind of

algebraic formula where any time you ever speak in it about destiny and anything remotely that can be construed as personal in this loyally law like

language this this old testament biblical law like language

that

that means it's qualitatively the same thing that's w as you saying another fuckon long answer

so you're o no no i understand i understand per well i understand i understand publect well now

so

let's say let's say so let's say um

let's say someone is at a club right and they group a women

i'm goanu to is it going to be another five minute no no no it's j logic pass with me through please pass with me let's say someone groped a woman at a club right

and some one confronted the man and he said

you laid your hands on that woman and he said wait a second

you did this you also laid your hands

on someone when you touch their shoulder so you're doing the same thing that i'm doing

sorry one second i was just uh in the middle seven then um

i don't know what this is goes to do with anything yeahyh i'm trying i'm trying to explain to you what you're doing

so listen if you can let's not let's say let's say let's say we're out of the club let's say we're out of the club

and someone gropes someone right

and then he say you just put your hands on them get out of here and he said why am i being criminated when you're no better than me you put your hands on someone's shoulder which actually qualifies as putting their hands on someone

and that means no the same thing

and if someone has to explain why they're not the same not saying they're the exact same when someone when someone has to explain wh it seems you're confused as to the reasoning of why i'm attributing significance

to you be to you getting into destiny's personal life

they're not when someone explains why they're not the same thing you go you are just twisting orsep into a pretzel

no they're not the same thing

get your hands off that woman

it's not the same thing i

i don't understand what you're talking about this it's your hands off that woman

you're getting a little too touchy with that woman it's not the same as someone touching a shoulder it's not the same you're getting a little too handsy and touchy

and i have to explain and if i have to explain to the essence if i have to explain to the essence of why it's different i want talk in go on if i can if i have to explain to the essence of why it's different i will merely tell you

that you were touching her in a sexual way oh nowre you shifting a goal post no i think i just it was pretty clear what i meant

initially

that was much was very clear what i meant

that i have to explain the essence of what i meant

means you're not operating in good faith

if i call you a destiny orbiter and you say oh but you've also

you also talked about destniny's personal life because you covered five minutes of a gym stream

clearly you're not operating in good faith

that's not the same thing as talking about this the point personal relationship you dedicating my srem dedicating my sream escape talking then go it is i have exhibited none of the behavior none of the behavior whatsoever none of it

none of the behavior none of it whatsoever

amn

no wonder know whatts tobate you is fucking boring jesus he keep this is by the way to logic this is what it feels like to lose a debate with me and indeed i agree this is why people don't want to debate me

because i would literally wipe the fucking floor with them

like i'm doing with you right now boring

you know i understand it's ingling and rambling right right this is what this is when someone loses they accuse the other person of rambling when they've actually destroyed them and broken down every single point

they've tried to raise you've gone blown the fuck out you've gone absolutely dominated in fuck and destroyed your manhood is now forfeited and you're accusing the salient points with which i have used to destroy you and take your manhood as

rambling oh cope oh blah blah blah someone who says blah blah blah when other people are making very specific intelligible point you s someone who is coping so let's not allow to speak it so so you you

well let's you clearly conceded on every substante yout youow let's get to the grand finale let's get to the grand finale

so well no i just want to say that just because you say something doesn't make it so i appreciate you've got a b r right right get ho ho on some more sory i'm sorry i'm sorry for keep on what your salient point your important salient point a mean this is an imporant s point just i'll let you finish just saying to you yeahll thank you ok ok so whatll i'm saying to you is yes you' got a bunch of people in your chat

and as you say

you say that two plus two equals five on your chat follows so by that logic you can just say whatever the fuck you want and your chat are going to agree with you that i don't have that s y chat wouldill disagree with me but i say some logic a few things

that is operating under the assumption that i as a man because i do consider myself a man

that i'm looking to chat for validation as to the correctness of what i answer that how we trust your audience when you say yourself they will say to you just five maybe listen to what i just said

i do not judge the validity of the points i am raising based on how my audience reacts if my audience thinks i'm wrong it doesn't matter

the audience doesn't measure whose correctns you are just right regardless no matter what i believe i am right according to the very minimal and basic standards established between two people engaging in a rational

a

debate yes any type of rational communication between two agents me and you

the minimum of any standard that's how we establish logical consistency

by that standard

you have not been able to address the points i've raised according to you

but

it's like you it's like a loop if i ask you

what color is the sky and why why you the arbiter of who's right and who's wrong all of this surely we got to let the audience decide and your audience can't be trusted

because the audience does not do the audience they t on the audience does not decide never in a debate have i ever let the audience decide who's right or wrong

right

by but that's kind of how it works no it's not just that i decide symptomically speaking i exact concessions from my opponents

when they start rambling and stuttering it's very clear even you've decided what wasrambling you me the ueston on this youun rabling what you mean so the person who's decided

that i am correct is you

and the reason for that

is because you have not actually been able to address any points all you're doing is insisting on ch all you all you are doing all you are doing right right all you have done all you have done is insistally all you have done is insist upon the simplicity of your conclusions the crux of your argument

is insisting upon the simplicity of your conclusions

not their correctness or logical validity

e done talking

because every time it's all you just jump straight back in speak speak what is the point you want to raise go ahead

well i mean i think my points have been fairly straightforward and simple if you've not been precisve that's fine becides understandable i guess why you wouldn't be convinced i ust because you know yous not the joke along if i just say if i literally just say if i literally just say

the only thing you've fucking done is said that you've jumped to simple conclusions without actually justifying how

and its literally just reiterated that you think your points are pretty simple

are you an n p c i mean do you have

any capacity for thinking at all

like what we're arguing about is not whether your points are simple

but whether they're correct so on the question of whether they're correct

you've clearly failed

no not clearly felt at all i know that you just tell your audience that and they'll believe you but right nw it's the only realyh but the only reasoning you've given us to justify

you being correct is that your conclusions are simple

well or not at all what i'm saying to you is the things that i'm saying

um are going to be evident to any unbiased party watching ah okay so so what are you talk some more are you

how much do you want to fucking dot fish you are you are little boy are you are you upset little boys are you upset you're going to wus you going to quie just you sound tod a little what is that you sound a little bit upset you want you want to c keep crying and bitching keep crying you keep crying and bitching go ahead

well no but you are you just told and youre insufferable you want to cry

buy me a fucking ri i don't want to cry

finish your point wanen to eat in potatoes get to the mean is point it was triggered again heos the one that triggered again get to the meantatos point youk

okay the mean protects point is this

ive very clearly laid out lines so for example

you accuse me of being a destiny orbter yeh by saying that i orbit his orbits ok yeah fair enough

ush can be a point

my point to you is

in your percentages on twiche

you share an audience with john circ ok so by the logic you've used i can draw a closer connection therefore you or bit johnir right and what was my rebuttal to that

your rebuttal was that was some bullshit about what i've got other people i've got other people riight yourship that i share in and why is that bullshit

um

well it's bullshit because what does that matter

that's going to well if i'm k w why did i say ok why did i say it matters

because you're desperately trying to grasp at straws trying to find a point no why specifically did i say it matters

because you desperately try to grasp stowls to cro ok nothing that's what you're saying but what did i say out of my own mouth why did i say it matters

you've talked for so long i can't even fo can remember barll

ok so that's clearly the problem we're getting at right i said it mattered a problem is i talk too much correct right because it matters the reason it matters irrelevant the reason it matters that you're such a reason i've drawn a simple line based on you you want h you want don't raise your voice with me hey don't raise your voice with me oh i's raise my voice he come down little boy listen

i'll explain to you why

i'll explain to why come

it's very simple and please bear on

bear with me why hes gom

bere with i'll let you speak some more your permission go ahead can you can you bear with me though

i want you to actually me i was i have done so far so sure i'll be there again you just said you don't even know why i said it significant that i have a diversity of people i share go oers with

gank

if i have a diversity of communities and people i share viewers with

that means i'm original

if all of the people i share views with come from one community

it's very it's not even necessarily

true but it is very likely that you can deduce

that i am not original

now every single one of your viewers

that you share our destiny orbiters every single one i don't agree that

and i don't think you're different from them in an astoitative way

i don't agree with that i don't think startus is like a destiny or but so i totally disagree

hold on

but time out time out time out time out time out time out

time out time out time out time o this is golden someone clip it someone clip it please clip it

stardust is not a destiny orbiter

please just for the cameras for the camera startus is not a destiny or i don't think startus is

i went on startos panels when she had twenty viewers

even all of the people on those panels

were d g g was i was you know what propued start ust into any relevant was another thing if we'll not you have a panel and people from d g g go ont that make youo hold on that was when she was at twenty viewers do you want to know why people know anything abou

do you know why people know what someone ok do you shoud the fok up do you know do you know why anyone knows who startust is

why she's more even what i'm saying even when she was at twenty of view where she was a destiny orbiter

but when now that you know she's established

do you even know why anyone even knows who she is now

a i've actually watched her go from twenty to two hundred viewers do you know why you've watched her every step of the way bit weird i knew her i knew her before she got famous yeah

you know why ok

nobody knew who you were before you debated like destiny and os thogh right

except destiny invlves themselves

but did you know your chot went in fuckinghastle and also because i debated because i debated zander hall

but anyway

get your facts get your story straight

exactly but that's my point is you know you got your chart to have s th ont that there's like a million different points ok

we're going to get to the significance of using my chat

i we're going to focus on this first

the only thing that propelled start us into significance

the first time she broke that ceiling

was talk covering destiny and an a drama

so i want to go back to that conclusion you drew originally that you don't think stardust is a destiny orbiter

if all of her fame and success was not so enough for you to say oh you watch shit

you not enough for you to say

but oh because i've got viewers in common with star dust

that that that makes me an orbiter hold on it's not just that you have viewers in common with her it's that all the other people that you have viewers in common with are destiny orbiters

that was my way

i have fowers in common with zerka that doesn't make me a zerka orbiter

if i only had viewers in common with zirkaus people

which he doesn't even have his own established community right

let's say if i only had viewers in comme zirka

or even primarily had viewers in common zerka like dwarfing the like let's say eighty percent in common zirka the rest are like a little bit

but i have more viewers in common with jackson than zerko

in jackson's not even as big as zerka

gank

so well yeah but then jackson is not like someone i'm thinking of as a person in this space that anyone would sort of llbit right so that's kind of irrelevant to me

no it is it'ss going to your shared viewership yeah

but

this jackson shares you s screenshot can look at what your mix of you

things are on twitch yeah to me a screenshot a that

ok

sure

and i actually you're watching my stream because you don't actually cam up yourself

so i can just show you

right

i'm a not actually playing apex but i'll a look a you stream now let's have a look let's have a billy butchers oka

channel analytics

yup

ok

hm

so

you want to screenshot

well just shot on you stream and i can sey or you can screaen shot send it wherever you want i don't want to leak it so i'm going to screen shot

similar

all right

there you go

ok

where is it

clearly

jackson as and i see the rest of it now were going i see the rest of it you onnly show me w youust wanted proof of ark andj i don't know i was hope i was hoping to see all of it if i show you mine you know erm s you mining want the whole thing

yeah

here you go

thank

wow look at this

so what we got jackson incol john zirker me

so you a tiological butter then

no because it's a diversity what is you just before me what was that about i wonder what

and then you've got ann ofvoir and mister gol returns

yeah

that's interesting

which channels have right you say in this diversity right you've got jackson hinkle w kind of allbits you let's be honest you've got john zirker

and then you got me you say i'm a destiny or but yeah anna and mister girl who have come to prominence from speaking to destiny

yet destiny is viewers

if i have more than three to four hundred viewers not but i just tols that was the way way waysas what i'mn on what is for you wait wait wait wait wait

the ok it's a disaster way ok disask just a question

disastrous havef i ever get i ever see ho on hold on the biggest've ever seen

ok you done it what the ro what are you done yet beta boy sawing out

it's all calm it's all calm me like a man go and exp i don't have to explain anything i've never denied

that if i get more than three to four hundred viewers on a given day

sespecially now ok it's usually be caause of d g g

right ok

but that core three to four hundred are mine

right

there's i have a quar of three or four hundred right

the rest

zirka and destiny

this and i is just ind w you've just been blk for ok ok the w need to show this because it incredibly that on hold on ho on did i'm not credibly hold on into you hold on hold on hold on

ruto did i not

originally say that

well you've been trying this whole time to act like my shared viewership on twitch proves anything

which i thought was a silly argument b i engaged with because every single because every single every logic you are a destiny and circle arbitter by your not ro everyy your own logic are you done lucky are you done

yeah go on

o

did i or did i not at the very beginning of this stream say

that on top of the three hundred i have a core of three to four hundred i don't even know you know the exacts going to od a more stuff now to try and justif okk do have do i have to logically parse this out with you s let's get on and we've been trying thek ok let's let's let's let's let's let's that's why that's let's logically pass this out

the first thing i said do you think there's anything significant about me saying the first thing i said that i have a corps of three hundred to four hundred viewers

the rest come from destiny and circa

it none of this matters by your own logic

eurozurker in destiny orbiter in fact why you can grosly bser wright wait so what so i'm

how can can i plane it

can a planet orbit multiple suns

what such prase to mean we of course you can a different people i feel like we all all but each other but i mean you know it all bely all but all but means you all but one person you can't ies it feel to be a a logical butre anyway how does that feel

thirty percent of your viewers are in common with mine

apparently

do you know what that you know you know what that

you know what that thirty percent is

i don't know but you know

so thirty percent of your viewers

mhmm

be comes as sout get ready everyonhen it comes to cope

let's talk about cope what does cope mean

what does that mean exactly

listen just accept it you're moon ok what you want to what jus ca me what does call it mean but some on is what what does it what does it mean to cope so there's no argument any time you make a claim

and i push back to that s cope

you just have to be correct you always you your conclusion is a priori a correct conclusion and anyone who challenges your conclusion is just colori here's the thatt again

who's the thatet again

what does it mean to you don't sound like a fallking idiot when you say cope

i know it's the tron you coping you know you cop you're coping you copeus is pretty so coping this is coping this is coping you're cprit you coping right now sore you not you cop but you coping right now youre notd logic toad logic

you got one of your are you seven hundred pound are you seven are you seven hundred pounds

i'm not seven hundred pounds you're coping you're fucking coping you're coping this is copek you're coping

you coping

all right

is cope fine

no problem tod lodgic

every single one of the viewers you have in common are from destiny every single one

every single one

and yours a destiny anzerka

what are your percentages again show 'us your percentages

want to do that yes sure

gorn in swinland

yeah

hm

we're going to break this down for you very simply

oky

ok gone

show us your percentages go ahead link them they're on my stream they're on my stream now

the right there and theless you want to screen shot god need to hide anything hold on this is worse than i thought i dig it into the percentages right to matter mch so ho on hold on need to into the sixty sixty eight i only have thirty so thirty percent is shared with you

twenty two with anna twenty two with a mister girl that's just one so at most

thirty percent

i share from destiny right that's just thirty per cent at most

and by the way i was way more generous to destiny i said

i have a corps of three hundred

the rest are usually from destiny political destiny right

now that's like

more than fifty percent right

but funny because my my statistics show that's not even the gam was but you're not on mine i wonder what that's about

that that's the opposite of what you think it means what you start in hold on you thatt sp b that i'm just trying to explain to you what you're trying to explain to you over i'm trying to i'm trying to explain to you don'e trying to explain to i'm trying to explain to you i'm trying bit boy sh shut you fucking mouth shutkut want to shut yourk mouth out shut your fuckingbut you shut your fucking mouth

shut your fucking mouth and i'm trying to explain to you math

it says percent logic d logic if you percent of your viewers are mine that's what it means it doesn't mean

thirty percent come from you

thirty percent of yours

are mine

that's what it means

can i just ask a question

you fuck an idiot

if you are on my moon what should i call you

sure logic you are fucking orbiter

that' to an accent

so so why aren't i an ana orbiter or mister girl orbiter what makes the thirty percent so significant here

why aren't i jackson orbiter

i can name you after someone from the u s ssar if you want maybe that might help

so you've lost the debate

i just want to know more about you being a childlogical oh i see you've lost the debate

but what makes me a tlogical opiter exactly

well the fact that you you know you see the list there

you see the website thirty percent of the viewers are shared with me

ok is there particular reason why recently that might be the case

a i'll deny

do you wear it so

let's do the s my g what is my

cent inf i'm going to go ahead keep that up on your stream show yours again so i'm going to explain this to you

i have to explain to you math

ok

i know it's complicatedt

we say math yeah yeah i have to explain to you so if almost all of your viewers are destiny viewers

and thirty percent i share with you that all that means

it's from destiny that doesn't mean anything else it's just from destiny

it's not you it's destiny

so call me a destiny orbiter if that's your argument don't call me a chid logic orbiter

but your argument is wrong it's just as wrong as calling me azurka orbiter

because just because you share views in common with people

doesn't mean you orbit them

but if every single person you share viewers with

and moreover if sixty eight percent of your viewers

and you're seeing even more than fifty percent

are all coming from

destin new aubiters

guess what that makes you

a fucking destiny orbiter

it's literally that simple you're a fucking des the orbiter

is the master do with you autism

you're just a destiny obter

ok and you're a iological bitter

no how

it's fine listen body you how many of my viewers come from chid logic

that's why i'm trying to listen that's wm tr how many of my viewers come from child logic

listen way i'm got very many from the sounds of it

i hear it's going down how many how many viewers come from s logic

tonight

well none because all of chot logic's viewers are just destinies viewers

so if i'm biting the orbitters of destiny you're orbiting the orbitter of the orbitters of destiny that's pret i'm not orbing anyone that has been my consistent logically consistent argument

cause all butits zero people

zero pay

if i do a panel you can come on every week ok

a promise i ollbeit

zero people chod logic zero ok

a sum total of zero people i orbit zero

and i'm consistent in my argument

you have never ever once addressed the actual argument here

if every single p i have to explain agains lookpkk it's not that you share views in common

this too ok i can grant you can i should i just grant you the point

that even if you's going to speak before i this is trying know i'm not because i'm going to be i'm going to be charitable to you

i'll even let you have your point pass

if you have one person that you share

your view is with

only one is all it takes to determine whether you orbit them that's what you mean right it only takes one correct

my question is why did you cut this off

hold on first two w didn't you show becaus and i thought you were asking me if jack i had more in common with the

jackson and and you were child ason

you didn't want to see the o the thirt on that you don't want to see that but i immediately when you asked it for the rest i immediately gave it you know hesitation so anywayy yout away with it but not not not this no i you didn't ask for that anyway my street my screen was cut off

anyway listen

o it's ca off ok yeah technical problems i get you that's what do you mean technical problems my discreen does not encompass the entire channel overview

so let's continue

i the

go you said you said when i said i have more than with jackson he said well you don't obe jackson he said you won't hold a second give me the screen shot so clearly i

thinking you're referring to that

my claim that i had more in common with jackson than zerka

now anyway

as to the actual point at hand

you are saying yes or no all it takes is according to your argument that you have to share viewers with one person to be the orbiter that's what you're saying correct

i don't think i'm saying that now i'm using your own logic back on wait wait but my logic not recll my logic i was how what this really mean waitit my logy holl yours up again ho you yours up again

my logic was that all of them

word destiny orbiters all of them not one but all of them it's unreasonable

that sharing one

shedting some viewers in common one destiny or maet about this thing right this is the no no no no n no n no but it we about it because it's a fundamental part of your w so yout don't don't quite tell you how don't stt don't call it whi's now come on cheer up ohd boy don't call it but's now let's continue hard to hide your dont and go don't you dot it don't it must be tough don't don't call it quits now don't call it quits now

keep it up keep it up old boy

don't call it quitz now

now anyway let's continue this chad logic

i will grant you your argument that all it takes is one person

all it takes is one person correct

yes

one because you tell me you're the ones you've been used no because i didn't say i didn't say one person i said all of them and litu you i said every single one of them every single one not just one person ok all of them

but let's just use your argument that all it takes is one correct can you pull yours up again so we can see the evidence

and i could show you this you

i use the way i've already said to you if you want to say i'm a destiny orbiter then that's fine you can call me that because i that logic you're a destiny b but it's no no by that that's the thing i'm even going to stoop to your lords reasons it's different rightk so you got we because my logic was that every single one of the people with whom you share viers a common you all be can't just be three no it can't you know no it can'ts to be all five ok why the difference

because all three of those people show that there is an upper limit of only thirty percent of people

from destiny

just thirty percent

ok so let's use your logic

and ands twenty four and mr girls twenty two overlap with your thirty

ok

so here's a problem because they' all from that all they're almost all from this not necessarily you can't necessarily prove that right like there's would be some of that yes but sure but we are operating from a logic that i began as i they were all destiny viewers would have logic logic logic but let's not shift you want to spak some more sorry let's next k because you're shifting the goalpost now you shoifting the goalpost because ok you are saying that you're just using my loge

against me so if we're going to use my logic then yes

we operating with the assumption

that if you have viewers in common with an orbiter they come from destiny

k that's my initial logic

now pull up yours again because if you pull up yours

let's just take one person

all relevant

sixty eight percent

of our relevant

you shared in common with

the most i share in common with destiny is thirty percent

crimal logic so this clearly

really

quite a qualitative difference isn't that

well not necessarily doesn't show anything because we're not getting the link to death but i'm i'm using your directly linked ok so now you're making the claim

that

there'ss i've not made any claims about me no no no no now fact you're using with me on you we've we've move about this staff we've moved on to a separate argument and i'm happy to address that argument you've raised if it's no wait no you pivoted you pivoted to the argument that oh actually

destiny orbiters are not all destiny right that's the argument you you have come to right

so ok let me explain a point ok can i explain that yeah yeah yeah go ahead you allow me that go ahead ok

so the point that i'm making when i say that like startust isn't like a destiny orbiter is that when you look at the percentage of you point i share with

y right

ok that doesn't necessarily guarantee that all of those people like destiny viewers a new argument you're raising it's a new argument

you didn't raise this before so i have to address it now

okay

that was my point

you saying they're not all necessarily destiny viewers

but

if they are destiny orbiters and their content is orbiting destiny and

political tri drama start us

ardust's content is an orbiting destiny that's my point so who

which person which streamer is primarily responsible for propelling them into significance

napole but that's a different question isn't that because no you know destiny is largely responsible for repelling you to significance no he's not because destiny's hosts created their careers their careers were created by destiny

as theres never hosted g ero raded g like once or twice

ok

and it's made no difference it's never made a difference no difference whatsoever ok absolutely not

okay go on

yeah so going on

you don't have any so you're saying well they're not all necessarily destiny viewers

it's all the same community it's dg g all the same community

little twitch is one community

its destinies it's not one community that it is absolutely one community it's one community

washan destiny hate each other in his communities hate each other wash has never ever had a foothold on this website

right he has never had a foothold on this website

we was on the website for a little bit says he has never had a foothold on he had like nine hundred viewers which is more than you he did not average nine hundred on which

look up the focking analytics

he didn't average nine hundred on which

what no i he reached nine hundred is average is whatly what four what hundred w so what even startsven star startus has reached

one point five k probably is a meses a one whi that means anythingich ok i've reached i've reached over two thousand before what does that mean means not to you say that you have a foothold on twitch

yes

ok

so obviously it's difficult to really say so over the lat well over say you know but he was averageing like five hundred foh was average in five hundred thirteen viewers when he was on twitch yeah

the fars has hod of somewat

no more than my foothold

right but you said that boh had no foothold on twitch and i'm saying she aaldy had like five hundred average viewers so yeah was something of but he is just as yeah he is just as much has a foothold in the political twitch community as me

i have a foothold on twitch not the political twitch community

ok if you're just going to keep fucking out in these provisers when you make a poin i don't know what you meant what did you mean if youre saying in general do i have a poothol onto ithich yes i'man you your basic because i have my own community what i have my own community i have my own community

what do you mean by a football

i have my own community do i have hod on do i have a flling ok ok fine

do i have a foothold in political twitch no

will i have my a political a foothold and twitch in general yes

ok so the point i'm making is you claim that everything is about destiny and i said what about vosch and you said vosh has never had a foothold on twitch

and i've said to you

he he had like four hundred average reears and he was on he ok beyond that he has an accident thro this on the then there's a misunderstanding so let me explain what i meant

because it's never under contention that thes that

i never said wash had less viewers than me i never implied that never thought that

explain what i meant

was

is a youtube guy

so he's never had orbiters on twitch i don't have orbiters on twitch but if you ask me in general if i have a foothold what do you mean to have a foothold in the say you saying that oh has got no orbiters on the reason the

no

the reason i have a foothold

the reason he doesn't have his own community of orberters he doesn't have his own network political twitch is destiny's turf not washes wasahes a youtube guy

now if you ask me if i have a foothold in general i'm going to say yes just wrong what you mean not t people you would i'm going you i'm going you consider o i'm clearly going to say yes i'm clearlyalking that if you want to keep talking go on

if if you ask me in general do i have a foothold on which

i'm going to say yes

because i only stdream to twitch

yeah

my whole brand is on twitch right now i have more followers on twitch than subscribers on youtube right now

so yes

but if you mean to say do i have a foothold on twitch in the sense that i meant voch does not have one no i don't have one then

i do i have just as much one that vosh had

so if i say voss does not have a foothold in one sense then in that same sense i do not have a foothold

ah sorry i just want to point out your viewers are kind of bringing up some old grooming drama that i was involved in um you'll be like the fourth or fifth group that have tried to do something with that am you're going to fail miserably it's already been dealt with i'm surprised though that what with you being a chilological but a

your audience don't really know about that

what the fock are you talking about

you wasre someones posted links to some old drama that i was involved in my chat presumably from your community what

so you are a groomer what are you talking about

know i'm not a groomer but there was some false allegation sounds like you're twisting yourself into a pretzel sha shall we shall we investigate the allegations

shall we investigate them and see if you twist thisseuf into a pice ahead you go sounds like you're coking hold on you at right w what you want to try and do this me a piece against me go ahead you want the first person to try you have just given me a

you have given me a

great big piece of steak on my plate for free i don't even know what you're talking about so

you let's see go eat up let let's see the link so just a reminder it appears

chod logic a thirty plus yr influencer groomed an impressionable sevente ye old member of his community

ah receipts below

what is going go lok with that

ok all means look into that

it's fine you'll be f fifth persons tried to take me down i do you sound like you're my first rate sounds like you're twisting yourself into a pretzel here so let's see let's know i'm just point let's not ourself into your premunity is desperate because they know you're getting blown the fuck out so they're digging up some old drama to try and smear me

pretty desperate got do go for it ok

so there some

discord messages here

did you not say i feel like simping you i can't help it

are you really going to go to this level i'm asking you a question shin you're hold on i'm asking the level of for i in that you're i don't know how they think are they face are they fake screen shots you'll bring it up

well those screenshots are completely out of context but the flow wait a second you're coping what do you mean out of context context doesn't matter on twits you're codinging o marg oh my god look at how he's coping you literally said you wanted to simper a seventeen year old girl and you're coping oh my oh dear he's coping the copium

unbelievable weasely copium are you sure about this unbelievable topium i'm just asking you a question did you you're saying it's out of context what co

unbelievable chopium

check the fact checking it looks like we've got some facts to check

now of course i could allow you to explain yourself with a reasonable adiration i don't need to explain myself to you orh but audience a but no but there's no such thing as an ex explanations are cope right so if this is a simple conclusion we're going to draw

and if you try to contest it you're just coping

correct

well i'll tell you what's happening here right you have audience have been spamm in this like

link to old drama

and in your desperation you're grabbing onto it trying to find a way to worm yourself out the fact ok if i argument wait point you are the one wri wait i was more than happy to focus on the actual argument we were having

you are the one who saw it ris because normally you get quite upset when people bring up fake shit butou sa it sounds like it sounds like it sounds like you're just

you are literally bringing up fake shit about me right now it sounds like

you just shot yourself in the foot and blamed me i literally didn't bring this up

i didn't care about talking about it

you brought it up to me when i said to you that the audience knowing that rather than cut that out why didn't you cut that out

you bought it up and leaned into it

well

maybe i wouldll have said caugt it out

if you were a person who is charitable to me

about my life and you didn't lie about me and spin narratives about me and then say when i defend myself i'm merely coping

and tisting myself into i'm talking about your viewership right and you coping about your viewership so what you're going to do is take false grooming allegations

and then bring that to me from your audience is that is that what we're saying these allegations are what you have laid on my doorstep it's not my fault that you decided i didn't lay anything on you it is absolutely not my fault the link

it's flabs in my chart during it

people were saying there were people in your chat there is really what was that get it from what you get that what it from what would get that sweet f what does that wh you get that sweet i click

the i looked in my chart to see what you were talking about and i poond it what literally and then what put up to me th and say ok i it really what you bught up to literally what the fk are you talking about like

you randomly brought this up

and i just want ok when i was and it's not random is it ok as you say it was in your show wait way wait how is that random i would have mentioned it if people were posting in yours and mind it sounds like

you are a little coping about this

soch open it so youre well sch i'll already i'll be fat i'll be fat i'll be fat

what i'll do it

what what what what i'm doing right now

is i'm treating you with the same degree of charity that you've treated me

all i am doing is behaving toward you

exactly in the way you behaved toward me through this entire duration of this

this conversation

and it's really takes a lot of good you know charity for me to even say this i could just double down and accuse you of being a pedal

right

but i'm telling you if you ok if you think it's unfair then you would have to concede that the way you have behaved

throughout this entire conversation

as a comparable level

of uncharitable uncharitableness

not really because i'm not because you jump because you jump you jump to simple conclusions in your argumentation

i really like your anger but it i merely because because it seems like every time i have to explain myself i'm just coping

right but when you explain yourself right and these by the way these discord receipts are pretty incriminating i mean i don't know how you could explain yourself to justify these

so you see you've not even looked into it and you're saying the incriminate right but yeh i'm it would be but but the vies govibe from what ople are saying is that you are groomer that's what i've been hearing ok that's a vise the i want have been saying of the pot of accusations go right ahead you w't be the first honestly go right ahead

so does it upset you that i does it upset you that i come to such a conclusion without actually assessing this i'm used to i'm used to it by now i'm used to bad faith ships like you trying to bring it up oh noo and your wen and you'r good want to speak some more do you want to speak some more i' was going on here the equivalent would be

if you

had you know there were people in my chat that were posting fake

um bullshit about you and i opened it up and said to you what's all this then that would be the equivalent but i've not done that you know

beuse i had some semblance of respect for you

before we start but have every serial on

every single time your chat spreads lies about me

you don't say a damn thing

i've seen it

i've sought today this morning

but there's a difference between them saying something that slightly wrong or saying something about your viewers versus like accusing you of being a groomer right

i have i to truth be told i don't interact with miners at all so it's not possible for people to accuse me of being a groomer i don't interact with miners

on this call racist or any any serious allegation

people do call me racist they call me racist and homophobic and sexist and transphobic and guess what i've defended you

um in that before so it's a bit this yeah you this greuen allation the thing is someone s di not happen once ok let me explain someon apple once thing is the thing one came into no let now i'm going to talk you going to let me talk so someone came into my chat and said hars is tr are you going to keep coping

o no listen

you ca talk transphobic and i said i don't believe that's true i've heard how speak about transition doesn't really seem to care how generously transfer how generous and i said can you link me a clip of him saying something this' transferre by general sd quite generous so i so i said so i said you know what i'm not going to go with thatu you need to say that that's that is quite generous that is quite generous it seems you have decided though that as of this new spout of ews you've gone recently because you

getting destiny viewers

that you desided to be less charitable to me now because you can afford to be

well it's not but after all after aroll looking at evidence my own analytics have proven

it's quite a bit of your viewers

was shore shared in common with mine

so clearly this new spout of destiny viewership you're getting

and you want to know why probably it's especially high in your case i'm willing to bet a good chunk of those viewers you got

were actually my viewers

you actually decided to tune in and watch your stream because you did before treated me

with a degree of reasonableness and respect and good faith

and that's that's even why it's thirty per cent on line

because you're one of the only dreamers

that haven't gone on my back

but now it shoud logic

you've gotten aligned with d g g in the politics community in destinies i mean anletics apprecy that you're my op butter how does it feel to orbit a grooma that must fo that that feel to obit a groom so calling yourself a groomer is not actually helping imgine llb in a grooma

imagine oll but in agroement so what you're doing right now is itdmitting you're a groomer

and i don't know why you would admit logic if

if

that's how you choose to identify you leave me no choice but to accuse you of being a groom i mean straight from the horse's mouth your groom a problem call me agrooement listen but i don't care if you want to call me a grooe you want to do that's i that's the problem

but

that's what your you said i an not to work about so s that's what you said not me

i did not

call you a groomer at any point you called yourself that

i'm not sure what

i'm supposed to

i mean

what choice do you leave me with

do should i sell i call you a liar

i just don't care if you think i'm a groomer it doesn't bother me lots of people think i'm a groomer and yeah i've just dealt with it so i'll deal with this is this child

i could just finish you off ruthlessly

and it is tempting because you are a bad faith fock and weasel

and you p the bd for you were using pople you said a people deserve no mercy you d g g destiny orbiter pieces of shit

this g normal sy on

but as much as i am a mighty khan

i've always been faire

so the trune is

i don't fucking know

what happened

between you and that i don't know i don't know enough details

i literally don't know

it's the truth for the more

why did you brk up a twyt and put it in front of me then

because i wanted to demonstrate to you

what it feels like

to be the victim of the same lack of charity that you have thrown to me but no it's not it's not the same though is it because it is the same some random tweet youvid know what's going on that's all that's me all youre all you've done was the exact same you olk ok we can play dirty games and be ugly ok then what a been dirty games w chopimes

this whole time you have refused to engage me through any type of right i believe in rational

discourse i believe in rational communications about what andm tweet about we be in agroement is n she goes if we were operating under rational discourse and you were obliging me in that regard

you know what i would say to that tweet i would say

hold on

i don't know the context behind this

let's put it on the back burner because i don't know what's going on here right

i've done that for you quite some that's that's that's my standard that's my standard

by the same standard that i say that

i defend the things that i say and but it's only that conveniently

sometimes you accuse my rational argumentation

saying it's coping and saying i'm twisting myself into a pretzel

and other times

when it's favorable to you

you then say oh hawses being a decent generous person when in reality i'm just being consistent across the board

things are not

always simple conclusions you can't always draw but there hasn't but there hasn't been a rationality but the validity but there has

because the only rationality to your arguments has been

the reasoning you have given me consistently and only this is the only reason you've given me

you w've appeal to the simplicity of your conclusions

notwithstanding anything about their validity you have not addressed their validity

you've just talked about how simple your conclusions are you have not actually addressed

whether they are actually correct or ca i've actually w i've done is have taken your logic

and i've made it even simpler because i have to draw and n know because i diae is it is demonstrably not my logic it is demonstrably not my logic

ok but i've just how is it not your logic

because i if i say that every single one of the people with whom you share viewers are destiny orbiters

and you say there is one person with whom i share viewers

and you qualify me as an orbiter on that basis

you have not used my logic against me you have created an entirely new logical premise which stands to reason still still must be challenged and proven

in some kind of way

it's not my logic my logic is that if every single one of your

the people you share viewers in common with are destiny orbiters that makes you one

you go and say that there's one person i shoald

by the way twitch will impose some statistics

ight

that you share view everyone shares views with someone which imposes those statistics upon you y of course yeah for every single one of those people it's also a minority it's under fifty percent

every single one

oh okay

so it's not doesn't make me an orbiter if i have forty per cent viewers in common with zerka doesn't make me an orbiter

right ok

but if every single one of

if every single one of the people you share viewers with

ore destiny orbiters one of whom is

seventy percent

in common with them

that does make you an orbiter

that's a pretty reasonable comparison to make what this is what this is based on is the idea that the people i share viewers with

all of the viewers that i share with them are all destiny viewers and then that that therefore makes me destiny orbiter right

you have raised the argument

that we cannot obvily know yes yes you're desoyalk

no no no but the point is you're saying that all of those viewers that i share with those other people are all destiny viewers and that makes me a destiny orbiter right yes

ok so i can make a more direct line

in that you share views rezerker

all of those viewers are zerker viewers and therefore your aserk co orbiter

no because the other people whom i share viewers are not from zirk'us community proving my originality

ok but they are destiny orbiters so they all view destiny so at least three out of the five people

a destiny opens s

so that makes sure destiny bitter no more than thirty percent come from destiny i never denied that

but it doesn't mean i didy all the dest right

so it just seems like you're creating these pro i'm going to help you i'm going to actually help your argument you want me to do that

because you're not good at this this logic thing

so what you should say is there are a total of five

streamers twitch gives you that are in common with you correct

yet

you

okay

i say i'm clearly giving some significance to the quantity so if i'm saying every single one of yours

our destiny viewers making it

such

that you are destiny biter

if you were a good debater or you were good at logic what you would say is has

three out of the five a majority of the streamers with whom you share viewers

re indeed

from destiny

that would be a good argument

i said that aides ago no you decept that you did not

i said yes at the you said you also you said you said i'm say you said you also share views with destiny

right

the difference is

there are no more than thirty percent

of people with whom i share viewers with in terms of coming from destin you say i w make arguments have already made thanks for that i appreciate it

you did not make that argument once

because because the croxt the crux if you want to like you talk if you want to do a bir if you want to do a birth rant russell like exhumation of the axiomatic logical premises with which i am operating under you should say that i'm attributing significance to the quantity

of

people with whom you share viewers

rather than individual people with whom you chevill is right and quantitatively speaking it's true

three out of the five people

right

uh

come from destiny right

but the difference is

no talking

go on write the differences at most

that's thirty per cent of viewers i share common with destiny at most thirty percent

whereas with you was five yeah sure whereas with you ok

chud logic you want to talk about the grooming allegations

i mean we can talk about them if you want yah sure let's talk about them and i will use the same level of charity

two plus two is five i'll use the same level of charity with you that you just used against me right now

well no but the one point out to you is you're using this crazy math to try and justify your point it think it justifies your point at all

why not

because its a of you and you can't aesn't matter you don't even have the s ands ok the more diverse the more diverse

these streamers with whom you share viewers in common with

the more original you are

now it's true three out of five s w you know is that just us as you've made the up there

well you want to know the reasoning behind it then if you can't see the reasoning

would you like to know the reasoning behind that or no it is that too complicated

yeaes sure go on

ok the reasoning behind that

is that it proves you're not

bogged down or defined primarily by one community

that proves you're original

if you sha it

uh things in common with

a diverse group of people

that means you yourself are unique you're not just part of a group

does is that reasonable or is that reasonable

sorryuned it then you talking a hell of a lot ok i see so let's get to the grooming allegations ok so

let's see i'm going to pivot anyway why are you so desperate to talk about the agreement because i want to because we're operating under a new standard of charity and i would like to take advantage of thisip the argument i would be i would i would like i would like to operate under the same standard of charity with you so when hayley bug wife said my ass is small and then you said

sodan i quote sounds reselfish hod on ronny

ok we a do this in wite the emms and know what they say they need to read and to rever sounds perfect for me i like small things small as small boobs perfecty please explain to me the reasoning behind

ah

behind this

this this d i'm right here please explain the reasoning go ahead

reason reason away

i said if you want to pivot away that's fine but you're clearly doing the all you beat on the otherh i see i act so this is what it means to be beat i give a long

very airtight rational explanation and then you say two plus tw his five

so that' clearly is not beaten of course i got beaten when you said too plus t i you wants triggered youre triggered because you're getting in bar right right it's if i was so i was ok ok so in good run before we delve into this if we delve into it i just want to make sure of this

is it because i'm triggered because you wm listendmit logic logic please stop raise you want to admit the stop stop stop raising ar voice d logic don't raise your voice side i'm not raising m hold ond logic

am i doing this because i'm trying to demonstrate to you what you're doing and how uncharit how it feels to be uncharitable

and how you can't get anywhere when someone's uncharitable and won't engage in rational argumentation and will dismiss your reasoning as gibberish and tupless to his fife

because that it you and you want to pivot away that's fine about the greument is ok just be clear to be clear

i want it to fee i will concede you in f i'll give you the victory if you say you're qualifying your victory as

dismissing the other's reasoning as nonsense ands to his file i'm qualifying the victory yeah

based on whatre desperate to talk about anything other than this because you've been embarrassed and nw you want to try and embarrass me but i'm not let's say the video back

i tried to talk about this

and then you dis missed everything i said w the gman styy

don't raise your voice with me it's very unwise to raise your voice with haws i heard he's more reasonable than you can be raising my voice' interrupt me it's a very it's a very simple point don't interrupt me it's a very simple point

don't interrupt me go ahead

chad logic

yeh

after i explained my point to you and you said two plus to his five

who demonstrated an unwillingness to talk about what we were talking about before you are me totally willing to talk to you about

everything we've talked about so you want to go that is

you're the one good and a good talk about greep so i gave you ok ok so you as me ausked me why does it matter if you have a diversity of streamers with whom you share views in common

i explained that to you and you said twoplus to his five it doesn't matter

so would you like to engage with the point now do you think if not got diversity then you think it is just all destiny of viewers

you're analytics show

that every single streamer with whom you share viewers is a destiny orbiter

every single one

ok'ss the top five don't you that is just the top five

that's all of the ones we can see from your analytics yes

sure so there's other ones on there that aren't anything to do with destiny presumably

you'd imagine wouldn't you

that cannot be proven or even presumed

ok

also the top one was seventy percent

right occur

and how much do you average is anything else that mean a relevant share

that might

mean that we've got a shared viewership

literally that is the biggest

destiny

as slicker there is on twitch

so no but do you think do you think that there's anything else that me and really do

that might mean we have like a shared viewership like that

apart from destiny you are beta mal

orbiters and react streamers to political twitch drama is that what you're referring to

ian you can frame th that if you want but yea we both cousins w drama sure so sure plit twitch politics plit twitch politics drama

o which destiny is the lord

he is the lord of political twitch

because because well because hassans hassans orbiters are pretty normal people they're not really like they're not in your community and they don't debate and they're pretty reasonable you know normal people

so they're not in your community it's all destiny's people

there's all destinies people in my community is that it

no political twitch is all destinies people

o ok now that's your argument that now now that we get you now that we get to yours that's not now that we get to yours right now that we get to yours

your community

you are trying to say that it's unreasonable to assume

that

almost all of the viewers

that are coming from raleighs and the rest of them

our destinies correct

i mean some of them are but not all of them know there's going to be some people that don't watch destiny i mean what ok let's ask this we' not really clarify this yeah what do you see as a destiny viewer if someone watches destiny for ten minutes once a week

primary if the primary

foundation for their interest in twitch politics

comes from

d g g

right ok what does that mean how do you figuret means a you know what it basically means it means a standard

litical twitch

you were

that comes from destiny the reason it comes from destiny and i'll explain it

so destiny rose to prominence and fame

on the merits of his competitive gaming from league of legends

so he built up a very very large community

and he was became a benefactor for political twitch

even was a benefactor for hassan for a very long time

till hassan outgrew him

uh by quite a margin i should say

and became totally independent from it

but yes destiny is the premier benefactor

of political twitchtreamists

so that would mean that pretty much everyone that watches political twitch is somehow then linked to destiny right

it is

almost always the case yes

right so b means that pretty much anyone that's a political twitchre it's almost always the case that they have a d d g account

they bra they go on the gs you read it

the part of destiny's following and part of his community yes one thousand per cent

absolutely

right

i mean i've got like a d g g account i got a v g g account i got z andderle i you know got accounts on different websites

like what's that got to do with anything

it's got to do with the fact

that these are destiney's viewers these are destiny's people

okay

all right let me ask you a question if destiny decided to denounce you

and pint you in a very bad light

and rial his entire community to hate you

answer this with good faith

mmhmm

what would happen to your viewership

the point to be a drop i wouldn't deny that yeah sure a significant correct

m not significant maybe twenty percent some another i'd say

okay

as a jokeer laugh again so

ya so okay

so seventy percent

on your viewers are shared in common with our relavants

right

and you're estimating twenty percent of your viewers would drop

ah yes somemingth that

probably

on what bas out of curiosity

i base that roughly on the amount of streamers that i lose when destiny starts to stream

no tends to be when sne government but the reason it's inaccurate is because if

destiny's people are favorably disposed towards you

then it's more likely and this is reasonable right that they would watch you while destiny streaming

if they're unfavorably disposed to you

then it's immaterial whether a destiny is screaming or not they're not going to want to watch you

right ok

i don't and all i'm trying to say to is quite simple right so i know what my viewership is

okay i see i don't

cope about it a you do but anyway ien is have i that way how have i coped about it because i like this word cope

how have i coped about it well weve spoken about that already but you've refusing i mean this is the i see so is what it is should sh can we measure this cope

so i would like can you cope are you capable of coping as well

yeah course we'll cope some so if i bring up the groomer allegations will you be coping or not

ah i wouldn't say that's copin noug by what

standard of qualification is you defending yourself against grooming allegations not coping

but me

defending yourself against the allegation

of in talking about my view is that that's cope what what me a serious exactly what separate serous consequences why is seriousnes noting why why is me why does seriousness measure copium

what's what the point is why is serly this material se so

if someone says to me isn't you call you th dishonest someone says to me you repeatter and i say no i'm not that's not cope right

but if someone says to me you know you go well when there's incriminating evidence iever dekad actually

well actually if chris hansen has tell someone to stand have a seat and they start

coming up with all these explanations i think people would see that its coping as a matter of fact i think seriousness

would increase the gravity of coping because the more serious it is

the more you would indeed have to cope about it is that not reasonable seem you seem really tricked about

get used to coping you know you could well it's just that it's just it's just that oftentimes it' ok that's creazy seems you get sri watch the then in faness then in faness

it seems you get triggered every time i bring up these grooming allegations

well not triggered i'm just saying we we don't know not to save it to save you chid logic

we don't have to talk about triggering we don't have to talk about coping

we could just engage

so you're upset about words i'm using a sounds a bit left oid but if you want i can back down and not use those words if it may no no no no no because when you say cope and childreing you're being dismissive of me as a human being and disrespectful

right

i

camp sorry by you've being dismissive and dist i'm really sorry for upsetting you my apologies i'm sorry you're upset about that well

you upset me did you

so you're not going to be upset if i bring up these grooming allegations

um i mean not really i mean go ahead you yout okay dream do whatever you want but i would like to measure

your cope and your triggeredness when we start getting into the details of it now can we

i mean listen if you want to concede the feet and pivot away from the main debate you can but that's going look pretty bad for you because i think i think i well i'm actually i'm actually quite confident that the vaud speaks for itself as to who conceded from the original debate given your dismissal in this

o not can i'm not conceding it's so i'm happy to keep going we can keep going as i think you want to avoid

going into these allegations

it's not that i want to avoid it really we can talk about it if you want there's plenty of content that goes over it but it's clear to me that it's a sign that you're conceding debate because you got no argument well well when i make arguments and you merely accuse me of being of coping or rambling or saying nothing

when choice do you leave me but to try and measure your degree of coping

well you know it have to be on something equivalent

not fos grouping i like well well sure ok let's what go you got a different i'll break do i'll break that down logically for you

it would have to be something equivalent

what you're saying in terms of the gravity of seriousness because for me to bring this up

right

it's clearly far more serious and far more incriminating

and far more no's not incriminating well n know's's well it's far more damning if it were to turn out to be ting it's so if it were to turn out out if it's not true it's already been dealt with ok but if you're just liket the left th it's the left s bringt don't draw lot of re what you don't worry about it when you become such a left b don't worry about your you know you're being on reasonable you're being on reasonably such left

you're chimping out youre chimping out

you're chimping out chad logic chd logic logic chd logic you're chimping out you're chimping out is what's going on

k let's ket let's get back to the point at hand ok

so they home

what you're saying is that it's unreasonable because of the level of the seriousness of the allegation that's all i mean right

but a kosher

i would only respect ao serce a drama that's been wait wa ait but nothing to this serious way a the age

and seriousness of the allegation of the drama in question is completely immaterial and would only be material

if i was operating

ah in a way that is generous and

friendly toward you

but you have crossed the bounds of any friendliness and friendship

through your disrespect

through creating your stream as a platform to have all the d d g betamils to talk shit about me cover my streams

have a go of every one talking shit about me regardless of what you're saying using your platform to attack me

you've crossed the bounds for me to take that as a factor very mensitive aren't you i've not a ti i am just all i am saying is by any reasonable standard

i don't owe you

the standard

of measuring the variable of the seriousness of the allegation it's immaterial i can coldly and robotically use this purely as a logic claorde to demonstrate to you how by your own qualifications you are coping

right

and you are also getting triggered and coping and doing and saying i'm not triggered in coping at all you're the one that's getting upset i have i have i have an i have an inkling that if we get into the meat and potatoes of this drama you will have to explain yourself in ways that are not self evident i'm not i'm not you know i'm not really looking to explain myself to you which but with in right but in order to dispel the intuitive

assumptions we would draw to the simple conclusions and assumptions we are going to make

based on these discord screenshots

you would indeed

half

to engage in a level of explanation

that i by the same qualifications as you

can accuse and dismiss as coping

well the problem you've got is that drama is literally over a year old now

s why is the age of material being dealt with yeah what is precisely con you resolves been dealt with like there's nothing to say about it well i can also say i can by that same rationale i can say that i had also dealt with your

a allegations

what allegations

regarding me complaining about my viewers

do you think do you think that you know

i

allegations about grooming

are comparable to allegations about complaining about viewers

if we take in the standard as a yes or no as a yes or no question in this strict sense of being a logical lord absolutely now in the sense of being a human being who treats another as human

no

they're not comparable at all one is a very serious grave accusation

the others completely meaningless and immaterial

but if we're going to be cold hearted logic lords right

is a it's absolutely not a fact to re like a cold od logic lord you just acted like a fucking spurg about this whole thing well i'm being a cold hearted logic lord right now because you have already crossed the boundary of engaging in any good faith

when

after you have goten the pushback

you continued to double down

on your false portrait not only that

but you're using your community and your chat as a platform

with which to spread lies spread hate

and spread disrespect against me

so

i mean if i if i you know it's quite telling you can say oh i wasn't being that vicious towards you hawes

but if my entire chat

is being so utterly ruthless and vicious and inhuman towards you

i mean clearly i'm using myself sure your chat has been lovely to me in this conversation i'm sure they only before actually actually before sure they've been all let's listen to what charts go actuallych the not be going to be tragic he here's here's the tragedy of the drama the metal drama goes here

befour our encounter

before yesterday when i covered that vault

my chat

was favorably disposed to you and never talked to it about you never

never never

not once

k they only had nothing but good things of question for you you only had nothing but good things to say about you my chat i never use and because i had a degree of respect for you i never tell i would never tolerate my chat to be a platform with which to spit venom and hatred in lies against you

i would never allow that to happen right but you did because you don't have your own chart it's all destiny's people

ok let me ask you a question ok

do you consider like your discord like an extension of your stream

yeaar more or less

that i remember one time in your discord someone said what's child logics politics

and someone replied with just an l g bt flag what what do you think that meant

there was one person in my discord

now i'm just interested to know what you think it means so did you clarify the question did you ask me if my discord

reflects my politics a is an extension of my stream

or is every single person who stumbles in my discord an extension of my

my stream because

there's general trends on my discord right

now thes a general trend on my discord

most people

will not tolerate

uh the enti l g b t staff

my but the mods aren't down for it

the to overrun i'm sorry census

ao i'm not accusing you of being ant g b t or anything like that weo you may accuse me actually you may if i mean you may i don't care i mean it wasn't what you was i wouldn't cat all i think

if it wasn't for the us i wouldn't even defend myself against the allegation not because i am anti lg bt

is because i don't care right the only reason i ever defend myself against it is because of the t s otherwise i'm not i just understands ok yeh and i don't care and i don't care about it at all

you you may use you may us let me explain you mayuse i don't know i'm giving you permission i am actually giving you permission to accuse me a i don't want to ok the point i'm trying to make is simple i don't guess now it's if that your child only ever been kind and nice to me is not true

f hold on hold on

that's not true i know it's not true all right the general consensus was they were nice and conty if there's one guy from who said something bad about you in my discord

i don't even know if that's bad cried why is the lgb t flag bad

i don't know why

what

it was just that listen listen ok i'm going to levery i sawt is a funny thing and i've always wondered about it ok that was it i'm not trying to say the youre ant g b t or the like all of you audience hates me ok i'm just trying to highlight to you that this narrative your chid have always been good to me i just don't believe that's true maybe it is other i well it well i can assure you it is true

it is t it's just me it's just this because my child trusts me and i've spoken favorably about you before and they trust me

price

so yes and that's why we had the overlap that we did by the way because when i tell people that i like someone

they check them out

because they care about what i think

aghanistan

so

yes

i think maybe maybe wait

a month or two and we probably won't have the overlap we used to

anymore

well that's sads well my people my people ting over tur anymore my people are not going to like you as they used to like you

and for good reason

a good reason

that's fine i don't mind

i don't need your audience to you know i got destiny's audience at the end of aven so i'll be fine

correct

mmhm

ok

well is there anything else

when i

well yeah one last thing yes about this coopium

alway we want to find any

sandy

clearly won't to find any

but you did say something i know i can i can i can i can say what it is right ok you seem to be taking a lot of stock into it but it really isn't about having a lot of stock in it

it's really simple okay

what it means is really simple

yes it just means that you're engaged in some sort of behavior

that denies something or complains about something that suggests a deep sensitivity about the issue at hand that's all it means

ah so coping is when you are sensitive tortoisues

uh somewhat ya

so if you are sensitive toward your family you're coping about your family

m i wouldn't say a slight that no why are you twisting yourself into a pretzel about it

m

i just gave you an example so if you if you're sensitive towards something you're coping about it right

so if i'm sensitive toward

my grandmother and you know her falling down the stairs and that i'm sensit i'm copi so my grandmother dies and it's i'm sensitive toward hearing news of her death

i'm coping about my grandmother's death really is that something you would tell someone

i'm not really no because that's a resq sen so you see you indeed have contradicted yourself now haven't you

not really it's not really in the spirit of what coping means well oka so now you're twisting yourself into a pretze pivoting and shifting the goal posts

mam i don't think i am really but well by the qualifications of the use of those accusations that you leveled against me that is precisely what you're doing now

precisely what you're doing now

we wll no i'm just highlighting it that you know this is what coping means and i'm say and you're saying oh if my grandded

and i was upset about it without be cop and i'm saying w no that's not really the spirit but but but how you would initially define the premisse which is how you've actually engaged in reraasoning this entire time is a dogmatic definition of the original premisse

e ere goo

when i say if you talk about destniney's personal life you've turn that into a dogmatic initial premise with which you can apply to things completely incomparable

and yes

i can use that same premise that coping equals

being sensitive sort something if your grandmother dies and you hear news of this you're coping about your grandmother you're coping ah your grandmother tumbled down the stairs and now she's at the morgue

coping you're coping you fuckin bitch

why are you coping about your grandmother

ret may she burn in hell

well

i mean nuts a bit i the next step okay

listen you ca understanding and i get oping or you know we need coping

ok o good fellow

the basic point i'm trying to make

is that you're accusing me of being destinor bit of recovering his personal life and i'm just highlighting to you

the level at which you' have engaged your destiny and your time onto it traing because you turned it yeah because you turned us in that's my whole point you turned iten you turned it into an answer turned it into an in of the group on because you turned he we turned it and is on on because you turned it into an in contextual

inflexible dogmatic premise i did the same thing when i asked you to tell me what coping is i gave you an example of something that falls under your definition of coping

but according to you that's not twisting it into a pretzel at that point

well hars of course is not the same thing

or why is it the same thing for me to

watch five minutes of destiny's gem stream

and you to be a destiny alw was a folling ons you watched it for like two hours

ah it's immaterial right five hours draing whatever

for two hours i watched this allegedly watches jim's i don't even know the' true allegedly

his gymsring right

how is that comparable

to you covering destiny's relationships personal private relationships

mean it's just not comparable gims are not

personal in the same way

or in a comparable way like mean if someone so for example could be like esan about about destiny and like private relationships it's the same sort of level of what i've are you referring to the zirka clip in which i vaguely ask why is everyone talking about destiny like what is the big deal because they were talking about him and i don't know why they were talking about him is that the one you're talking about

but you have covered his private life and that's fine i don't care but i im going to highlight it and in the same way in the oken you sig by the same use of reasoning you're engaging in

anyone who is expressing grief about their grandmother dying is coping

i don't think i wouldn't agree that that would be co well well then you would be twisting yourself in wor then you would ren then you would be twisting yourself in a pretzel now wouldn't you because i by the same not really by the same measure chuk logic by the same exact measure

i i personally di enough ma yah i personally

would not say that i cover destiny's personal life in the sense that i charge you of doing this right but you're saying i'm merely shifting the goal posts

and twisting myself into a pretzel

you are twisting yourself into a pretzel

when you are saying that dear grandmother's life when she tumbles down the stairs down she goes

is indeed and that someone expresses grief over this that this is not copium

right if

for example if

if if you don't want your child to be

bullied that at at elementary school you're just coping right

if you don't want your child to to die of a disease or sickness you're just coping why oh you're coping oh you're not letting your child

smoke marijuana or smoke crack ok if a pattern

prohibits the child from smoking

crack coke cocaine

is that coping

i mean are you like somehow suggesting that getting accused of caring about your views too much is no no no n you you ri yourself into quite the crumpet

the parent is giving reasons why the child should not smoke crack cocaine

and the child goes

you're coping ma'am you're coping i is that a reasonable response

um i don't think so no

so you define coping as being sensitive

board stings correct would you like to change your definition now that your definition has fall no i think there was a bit more to it than that i went thenr def your definition has fallen flat on its face because it can clearly be applied to many other things like this wen if you clear not that fair enough

thin has you f y definition ok it has fall i mean it is objectively found flat you cannot consistently apply it to many other scenarios

and i expect that

well should the child smoke crack cocaine

i

and i get yes sure why not

let the kids smoke crack

good i'm glad we're not coping and let's not care about if old gran falls down the stairs

or no drowns in the bathtub butanny

granny can get and she drowns in the bathtub that doesn't matter doesn't matter at all or if ol you know eleven year old timothy's got a fork and

looks into the outlet and

besides that that fork looks like it would fit right well into that

that power circuit and outled and tragedy befalls timmy and the parents are weeping and crying over the loss

of the child

they are merely coping

it as a matter of fact matter of fact

all childhood preventative safety measures

indeed our form of coping i mean

when you

tell your child not to put the fork in the outlet when you have safety outlets and you have the plastic they put over it

those are actually

those aren't safety mechanisms the're coping mechanism indeed ok yeh cope and cop in fact

as a matter of fact from a nitzchan perspective

if we will an aristotelian

british natch in perspective

it seems to me that

a great deal of what we do as human beings as a whole right everything we do is coping if we don't lie down and just accept the fate

of destiny

not the streamer mind you i know you would leach off of him but destiny in the sense of

fate and history if we do not lie down and submit to fate

may

which is coping right if we don't

lay down in the grass of in the starry sky above

and merely submit to the will

the will of the cosmos rather than resist the schopenhauer

would put it

we're merely coping that's copium right any time some one explains the brilliance or intelligence or tenacity of the human spirit against the tide of the overwhelming fatal

thermodynamic

heat death of the universe and humans want to resist this entropy and want to create brilliant and beautiful things and create intelligent things and do grand things and resist and strive to be better and strive to will and strive to triumph

there indeed

hoping genghis khan he should have merely stayed in his bed frame

as an infant had never left because as he conquered and roamed the steppes at the end of the day

genges

he was merely

hoping

and it's very well fair to me

that d g g wouldr sorry it's not it's quite fad to me it's cod you sver that again's quite it's quite f it's quite reasonable to me sorry

the bestine community and i've cracked the puzzle to it's a brilliant breakthrough it's an archaeological breakthrough oh my god it's like the discovery of toutin common so i've discovered the breakthrough d g g calls everything coping that doesn't amount to passively being a consumer a readed consumer who loves star craft and star craft and star wars and league of legends and the marvel cinematic universe and consuming s

y and read it and anyone who is not a passive consumer of the great reset is merely coping the truckers in ottawa

merely coping the january sixth wrioters merely coping everyone who is trying to resist the tides of

consumption and merely sit down and lie over on the back

and accept what fate hasn't solved them except what the elites and the authorities haven't solht them is coping anyone who thinks for themselves and questions the authority oh they're merely coping anyone who questions the mainstream narrative in any kind of way merely in copening the entire enterprise of philosophy

one big copium plato himself the ultimate coper of history and the more complex philosophy has gotten the more copium it's been injected with hego the finest coper in the history of the world why can't you just sit down and accept the sucking of his mother's teeth passively as he gains the milk from his mother's teet and gains his strength in nutrients and bones everything is

cope the entire world is cope copium copium copyum british rist the talian nigian satanism is the way read it sory that is how we no longer cope

the more passive you are the cooler you are as our i dont destiny himself says we watch the stream of destiny he merely sits back

in plays league of legends he doesn't even produce any content because for destiny to actually put effort into his reams would be copium and moreover destiny himself in debates

i mean he doesn't cope because he merely just says

okay

and that is indeed the premier way in which we resist

topium yes indeed topium everything that's human is cope and everything that grinds us into the dust out of which we came

is true

cand you say that one more time please

you see indeed ad logic you try to impose your

anglo american or anglo saxon

readed culture upon me i'm a fine connoisseur i know

the ways better than even you do you cannot outpace me you cannot intellectually outpace me

i know your head better than you do

i understand you even better than you

i understand destiny's viewers even more than they understand themselves because as you understand chud logic you have gotten absolutely

and unequivocally

lone the fox

oh

it seems he has conceded

the debate at hand he could not handle my levels

my level severely outpaced him and he could not even come close ive he could not even come close i've severely outpaced him intellectually in every possible kind of way tell you how old chap

you've been ridled in he's deafened he's deafened himself but we know what that means he's merely coped for him not to merely submit to my speech

would indeed

a mount

ducopium you should have submitted to my speech the fact that you expressed the will to deafen me

proves your coping why would you cope by deafening me

complete copium indeed now indeed

copium copium copium

that's all you're ever capable of

indeed telly ol old old chap telly o old chap

eden sounds like you're coping to me let me explain to you all something

i haven't eaten a gollll damp thing i haven't slept

for a single second

i am awake for forty eight hours

i will always have more energy i will always intellectually outpace my opponents even when i have zero hours of sleep

you have to understand that i'm built differently i'm not destiny i'm not your destiny or but to streamers i am an independent content creator i

create my own content there's nothing close to me on this fucking website absolutely nothing fucking close

you understand

is no focking way to even compete or passe out anything relating to me

now he's just coping playing a league of

apex legends

having his own cope stream

there's absolutely nothing he can do about it

absolutely nothing you do by the way there was one point i wanted to get round to address

which unfortunately we were not able to get round to addressing but

if i recall correctly

if i recalld correctly

i recall correctly chard logic indeed did say

that you cannot grow a twitch channel from youtube

the overwhelming majority of my audiences from youtube my co constituency my core viewership

is indeed from you tube

so i think i would contest the claim he's making

on that count

indeed they do come from youtube

they do come from me and now that i've rooted out

the d j g viewers and this views we now know we're not going to

delude ourselves with striving to get

the viewers that we used to get

becausd guess what

those are destiny's people we don't want destiny's people we're creating our own community

and we don't need them

we've blown the fuck out of our elevant we've blown the fuck out of chod logic blown the fuck out of destiny dozens and dozens of times at this point every single one of these people doesn't stand a fucking chance

these people do not stand a focking chance they can't keep up with me i speak faster than them everything i can get to their head better than they get their own heads i know them better than they know themselves

indeed

indeed

indeed you're only seeing one percent of my power by the way only one percent of my power

to be

but full effort in this you would only see

a mere microcosm

a mere microcosm of political switch

i shit on political twitch

i sha''t non political switch i take a big quite a big rumptuous dump

on the face of political twitch and there's not a goddamned thing they can do about it every single one of the viewers of political twitch can suck my cock i'm creating my own community that is loyal to me

i am a lord indeed

where has trodlogic gone

we are coping are we we are coping are we

i'm sending him a message

deafening yourself

indeed amounts to the greatest cope

hope of all

indeed

defending yourself markst the greatest s coper all

i have exacted your surrender

and indeed

tell you ho

you have

conceded to me by being

the first

to deathen

in this duel

my friend

it seems you have

dropped

that first

and without further ado

unless you can

in grow some trousers

and

rise to the occasion

i bid

b farewell

and i out of pettiness am going to deafen him

you see

it is not very difficult

all these beta mel

orbiters

to submit to me

debait me get in my v c i will

debate you with ease

what it takes is for you to get in yvc and i'll debate you

instantaneously immediately

well it seems like i'll have to add you to the core which hod logic

and indeed

you may

reminder

reminder

you are free

give me a ring

will you grow

some be

um

some

trousers

hello

i have another

of your

viewers to debate

surrender accepted

d

and crumpets

te and crumpets

so let's go let's indeed enter the show and see what this persons

here to

bother me about

what

what

what

he left

what

what

what

speak

speak

speak

speak

speak

well right then

how about i make a quick trip to the store cause i got to get some protein

to eat

i'll be back in like

seven minutes ten minutes should i do that

should i be back

do i come back

i'll come buck i'll come back

i'll be right back

ok

nw go back for ten minutes

remove this one

i'll be back in ten minutes

and let me put up a thing

what a text

and then we may get around to some ore tea today

back in

approximate

ten minutes allss

indeed you tell me horw i need to go get some protein

i'm starving and famished

absolutely famish

oh the

i in a way you may behave

mhm

see

mm

not going to let im be sop

your f

gotd

the aladrokaica otevalan came ou in his neighbors st ciito alaska babga by okadarba illass

k fd somemy is sich youngish but the si the aaske the bibar bb corneuty bb

t

y go myd

ida what i got an idea

in valadrocaica votevalan came ou ins neighbors st ciito alaska by thega by a votka garban illasis

can find some my m is sich youngsh but se the aask thebargain b we corn you st uty b co

t t

my go myd

d what got idea

the valadrokaica otevalan cam or ins neighbors st ciito alaska babga by voca garba illasis

can find some m is sich youngish but se the aask the ibary bb corn you st uty bb co

tent th

y go md

id what got idea

in valadrokaica votevalan cam ous neighbors st ciitolaska badga by voca garban illasis

k f somemy is sich youngish but se the aask the ibary b corn stuty b

t t thir

my go myd

d what got idea

in aladrokaica votevalan came ou ins neighbors st ciit to alaska baga by voka garban illasis

kn find some mym is sich youngsh but sea the aask the bar bb corn you st duty bb co

go myd

ida what i got an idea

in valadrocaica votevalan cam or ins neighbors stciito alaska babga by vocadarban illss

can find somemm is sich ngsh but the si the aask the bbar bb corne st bb

t t

go myd

idea what got an idea

ll right i hope this guy fix this fuck and mike by now

ok

up this guide

fixes fuck of my

i

hello

yeah

that's begin

two

um

third is is like what i suspect you're reinventing political economy

fourth is you seem to have certain conflicts with stalin i would like to clarify them

fifth is a controversial topic it's about homosexualism

we can't we can't we can't talk we can't talk about that shuit

no the we want talk we want talk about

six is commodities

there was point with a french guy if you remember you debated it

uh which i would also like to get a fixed and seventh is freudinism

psycho psychoanalysis

and there was a report by a guy volshino in on ne ousanred twenty seven that completely destroyed it all

and i would like to uh and i wonder why you still

cling to this dead body of a

pseudo science

so which points do you want me to

start

go back

let's start with the last one

ok

so

i have you read this

this report by olhino

by um

in nine thousdred twenty seven

he was like a psychologist

marx is a psychologist in the soviet union

he wrote a marxist critique of froudinism

the document is called freudenism

as a short critique or fradini ism a marxist annoyc or something like that

it's on the z library just fraudunism

if you want a donlt if you read it

and he

votion of first

talks about the first t the like

flaws are not flaws but

the streams of sciennce of psychology right the first one is objective psychology

r the psychologys and like material reality something like this

and second one is subjectivi is is like subjective psychology

the ecology which is which

he is in the most majority of his idealist and stuff like that

so he then explains freudin ism like

basic basic points of freud in isnm like the way it was complex like the

the different stuff about that

and then he goes down to go to critiques

first point that he's observed is how freuds method like he critiques the most importantly fds method because method

is the most important

the first point he raises about for his method he says that

look

let's pay attention how freud

tell us that

there is a there is a like an eat

and the and the super rego right

he says that

you the subconscious or the uncscious has no way of the

of getting into the conscience

with the conscious understanding it with the conscious realizing that it's the subconscious in fact sneaking into it

and then volition of like

takes this

and he says that

the conscious

since freud tells us the conscience cannot

explain that the are unconscious

we cannot

we cannot apply for its method which is psychoanalysis which is like

uh you know

oh

associations right when the when the

he sits with the doctor

and talks about what he feels what he knows and doctor trk to make triy to make sense about it

olltion of them

points out how in fact what the patient is saying is inner ideological conflict

that are only conscius

okay it's only

yeah

yeah

so

i'll briefly explain why soviets had problem with freud and actually

and to sum things up

it's the same reason the soviet union collapsed

or less right

well that's a more complex view but um

first on the question of the difference between the unconscious and the conscious

this is a complete parallel one for one parallel

of the distinction between hegel's philosophy of right

the state

laws states and politics and what marx describes as the material relations of production it is a one for one

relation

that's something i would insist on dogmatically it is the same

dialectic is at hand between them

the and i want to explain some context and background

for soviet rejection of psychoanalysis

so soviet view

is usually when expounded in theoretical or cycle philosophical terms specifically

is a one sided materialism

the dialectical part of dialectical materialism is never

u expounded in the philosophy

it's never expunded in philosophy it's only in political practice of

the soviet communist party

but the moment specifically of the dialectic

contradiction within material reality

is only taken as a singular moment for soviets

uh thinking

so for example

october revolution

is a kind of rift in the continuity of historical time

and it's

repressed basically as the sacred foundation of the state

and never is it repeated they cannot have like a chinese cultural revolution

where they repeat the original revolution there's only one moment of the dialectic

so there's one singular

apocalyptic moment of the dialectic

this is also not only from the past of the revolution that separates the socialist society from the capital sorry the proletarian dictatorship

from there

from the

let's say priest pre communist society

communist in the sense of a communist party in power

also in the sense of the future the full final realization of communism right

never do soviet citizens have a sense of what

future communism is going to be

only this

it's in the future it's a bright horizon we're aiming and striving toward it right

never is there a revolution in the forces of production

after stalin's collectivization

that reproduces the essence of communism right

i don't want to get into it but like

replacement of steel is the mainstay of production by oil later in the soviet union's existence is clear proof of that

so

there's problems with soviet dialectical materialism

and these problems lead

do in psychology

an overall rejection of the unconscious and the subconscious

why because in the terms you precisely put it

there is still this one sided on the one hand rationalistic idealism

that everything must be articulated reason must can only be articulated in the form

of rational thought

right

and then on the other hand materialism the pure kind of a

pure object like pure object devoid of subject

but dialectical materialism

the object of dialecting materialism is not devoid of subject

object of dialectical materialism

reconciles the subject as a feature of the object

so the object itself is dialectical it's not a one sided matter

ok

so when there's you say they take issue

of how the conscience cannot

holy h

penetrate beyond the unconscious

psychoanalysis

implications

is that the contradiction itself between conscious and the unconscious

has to be acknowledged reconciled with and accepted

in some kind of way

you will never fully translate

you can't and the point is not to translate the unconscious

into conscious thoughts

the point is to arrive at a more fundamental sense

with which

the contradiction

that requires us

to the

to engage in the process of transcription

between the unconscious and the conscious

that very contradiction is given sense

and it can be acknowledged in some kind of way

lack of acknowledgment of the unconscious

also corresponds to when the spirit of soviet history

with the lack of mediation between soviet subject and soviet state

on the one hand lies the soviet state

the party the ideological apparatus

and the dogma from the top down

the soviet citizen is always confronted with the anxiety of

soviet ideology and soviet truth

only coming from one direction

never do they independently reproduce

a the truth of the soviet state

as for example in moos cultural revolution they carry those red books

theyre independently verifying and reproducing subjectively the essence

of the state objective state

but in soviet

history

everything is explicit

everything is explicit rationalistic

and there's no room for unconscious reproduction

of communism

because there' is no acknowledgement of an unconscious to begin with

so my answer to to your point is that this is a non this is either idealism or it's a one sided materialism

but it is not a dialectical materialism a dialectical materialism acknowledges

that you don't conquer the unconscious with consciousness that's not what science means

science means arriving at a deeper sense now how do you arrive at a deeper sense is where a true marxist critique

of psychanalysis begins because from a marxist critique

this does not take the form of the clinic

the contradiction between unconscious and conscious

is manifested

true

the aesthetic and scientific work

through aesthetic products right

works of art for example

you can give sense to your unconscious and create unconscious and conscious associations

through science the same thing happens

through politics the same thing happens participating in politics

all of these imperil the relationship between

and actually specifically i've mat i' have written works on this

eight

quintessential way in which

the difference between the unconscious and consciousness being put to work is the very bolshevik party form itself

the party is itself

a way to organize the unconscious

the party has all of its a

conspiraza is the word right conspiraza

of

sculture of secrecy in times of zarist repression

this conspirazi is not just

aving something secret but has all the markings of a

the foundational freudian repression that glues an organization

together

it's precisely because bolshevik party could not be reduced

to individual rationality

but had to

you had to engage in this more fundamental discipline where you stomach your rationalism

and you just submit to the party's discipline

and you don't you can keep secrets and you can repress

these are all things that imply afraudy and unconscious at work

that's my response

um ya

so to continue this

ahight so there's a

there's a dialectical relationship between the

they're unconscious and the conscious right

precisely y

and um

like as thelecting dictates two forces of nature

like they form a unity and they contradict each other

so the psychuman psychology is forced

is is the unity of the conscious and unconscious right

yes

so

that would mean that the conscious and unconscious would have to take the form of

forces to contradict each other

so uh that's uh have to be con

debt's problem with soviet dialectical materialism is that

it is a dualistic dialect

where

idea and matter

are united

yes

but until then separate

so it's the unity of two separate forces for soviet dialectical materialism

but

to me this is a flaw of the

soviet dialectical materialism to me

unity of opposite does not mean

two separate forces

it means actually one force

one force that is internally contradictory

only one force

ok

and that force that still has to be a force

yes as we see from

as we see from conclusions of freud and from

what you drives out in fact the contradictions aren't the

m

m some kind of

ah

on unconscious some they don't take the form of forces but rather they take the form of ideological contradictions within the person's brain

and from that we can say that

in fact what the person might

see about themselvess the contradiction of two forces inside them is actually contradiction

between

it in in a contradiction

in the ideology of the person entirely in the conscious and the fraud doesn't does never arrive at what the unconscious really means

through his method

because his method is the subjective this one

so to be clear

i don't want to misconstrue what you're saying so correct me if i'm getting it wrong

it sounds like what you're saying is

the view

held by this soviet psychologist is that

freud

is making it seem like there is this fundamental contradiction

that's

oves an unconscious

when in fact this contradiction could be resolved

at the conscious level making it ideological like a different ideological view

would eliminate the problematic

nature posed by the contradiction

no the contradiction itself is just a contradiction in ideology

sovit psychologist they're not denying the existence of

the ive unconscious

but they're just saying that

the way that freud derisesse conclusions about the unconscious

is fundamentally wrong because

in fact what his patience tell him is not only

a result of the patient's subjective conscious

like internal theoretical contradictions

like the conscious contradictions that the conscious itself

but also

um

because

his his when he does psychoanalysis

the in the scope of the clinic in the scope of the the session of psychoanalysis

um that's also

but that's also influencing his method of research

because in fact it is it is very similar to the process of

to the contradictions to the ideological contradiction between the doctor

and the patients

so the doctor has some some pills that he has to prescribe and the patient doesn't like the pills like it's an example

but

that in fact

first first source of the

oh

obscurit is more first source of

um distortion

in for in the fredani ism

is um

is the relation between the doctor and the patient and the second source of distortion is the fact that most of the conflicts that people describe internal to them

are in fact ideological conflicts that

the conscious has inside itself

without touching the unconscious because the unconscious

what do you mean by ideological specifically

the like

um

for example

i me ily can come up with an example with an example you like you know a litical sense ideological

no no oka

in a year in a sense that like

um

for example

a person feels guilty

for liking apples but also the person likes apples right

so afraid would say that like the like the longing for apples

is the unconscious

and the repression is the is the feeling guilty right

but they say that in fact no in fact it's a contradiction completely

belonging inside the conscious itself and the unconscious doesn't have anything to do with apples and in fact unconscious

doesn't even manifest in this contradiction this contradiction is entirely a conscious one

ah

okay i i don't know if i agree with his description of the apples thing but i'll just grant it so we can

simplify right

what

if it's entirely conscious are you trying to say then that

the reason they have this contradiction like

they feel guilty about not liking apples

is for some irrational reason that can be corrected with a

correct rational insight

why is there a contradiction and all to be

um

yah because of the because of society like the so and external uh

there the first is lak

for example they they raised them and gave im apples

and you really like that s

and he like got used to apples

he got consciously wapples he got familiar with them and stuff like that

but then he grew he grew up and society it all no

apples are completely allowable you can't you can't see the apples so bol and then i see bll they both

but both are the product of society

right

yeah

yes that's the o horn of barn like

him liking apples is a result of a conscious forces not unconscious

yes

but what fred tried to explain because

was very like vulnerable to this to this attack

were trying to like

uh like

go like wiggle itself out of it and the

he said that like well actually

since you can't really

what what was the very unaccessible at that time at that point in time it to

to psychology and general society was sexuality right in freud

but that's re douced everything to the that's exactly so the point

the point here is that

for freud

of course there's no

substitte there's no uh

the apple has no substance in the unconscious right

it's that

for void the guilt

stems from something more fundamental right that the apple represents something sexual

sexual

yes

that's why

so

for so for example

the liking of apple

is conditioned by the society

and then when he grows up he's

taught to dislike the apple also conditioned by society

so the contradictions on the surface it's not a contradiction that has anything to do with like and i and it

correct

yes

but for freud just beginning with freud not

even like lack on which is what i'm

from right

but just with freud beginning only from freud

even if this is true

right

there is a more fundamental force

yes maybe our like of apples does come from society

perhaps

but oursexuality

right

sexuality as such

ah

does not

its forms do come from society but sexuality as a content as such

is not something

irrationally

consciously

premised or produced by the society

so freud

it begins his significance begins with sexuality so we have to ask the question what is sex what is sexuality

right

so

for freud he is going to have a biological explanation for freud

ultimately sex is not

actually some like

oh it's just how animals reproduce and it's how we reproduce ourselves

freud actually goes very deep

he's a consistent thinker actually interesting

materialist think or even

we disagree

he will it's not just he reduce everything to sex

he reduced sex itself

do what he

terms toydustry

you familiar with his toy street the death drive

and for freud

the death drive ye yea was the most primal fundamental

a

instinct

a

of any organism beginning from the first singular celld organism

h

and defined also by thermal dynamics the death drive was primarily the result

first of the

the emergence of a in a difference between internal and externality with the organism right

and the organism seeks

to in a sense

seek its own annihilation through the very survival

by surviving and insisting upon

its survival by insisting upon kind of the

thermodynamic

equal homeosthasis right

for the organism

uh

it is touching upon

through the outer coding of the organism

the conditions of its own hihialation

so through survival the organism

is

pursuing in a sense

the very thing that lead to its annhilation

through this through the search of thermodynamic homustasis

so he has a very deep

kind of even geological

explanation for this

sexual reduction

now

the problem with freud that he runs into

the reason i reject the view that everything is just a contradiction on the surface of consciousness

is because for freud it's the difference that matters

not the substance

take it on

by the unconscious but just the very fact that there are contradictions

within conscious

roves the unconscious

right

these inconsistencyes and slips and

slips of tongue and so on and so on

these are what actually lead us to

an understanding of the unconscious

the unconscious itself

is not

does not have anything in it right

it just refers to the structure of the inconsistency of the consciousness

that makes sense

yes

well

it's wd to that

my issue very quickly im sorry to interrupt just very very quickly

my issue with some soviet thinkers to me

is it seems like they have a very naive view

rationalistic view right

according to which

we can eventually arrive at a point in which everything

everything about our humanity everything about our society

can be completely rationally on the surface and rationally resolved

right

and there is even a kind of association between this and communism it's always somewhere in the future

we'll never we're not there yet we're not going to i

arrive there

a but

eventually we will completely bring all we will solve all contradictions all contradictions

will be solved

just like in communism all classes all

disorder all problems gone in the communist future

so it's a very similar thing here right i think this is a good example of

flaws in soviet marxist leninist ideology

wew

that's that's contestable but also

are you trying to say that

like i got something very similar to the idea that

we must never rationalize and understand

we might never know truly society it would some law respiing precisely precisely

well actually

i was just reading taking notes on stalin's dialectcal historical materialism

and he just says right there contrary to idealism which believes that it's impossible to know the world

to know the world

doesn't believe in the validity of knowledge considers that the world is full of

things in themselves i think you you know about this yeah which can which can never be known right

so so down obviously

takes

takes this and says this is adealism

sound says then further down

the materialist

the marxist philosophy philosophical materialism holds that the so this section was about materialism dialtics was a bit abot right

amongst the philosophical materialism holds that the world and its laws

are possible to to be known are completely possible to be known

and that our knowledge of laws of nature

confirmed by practice experiments and israel knowledge

and yet the only barrier between us is time so lake

we might not know it now but we will know it'

tomorrow there are no

idealist things in themselves which can never ever be

ah

at

uh no

it's not that there's yea

it's not that there's iiron

it's not that there's idealist thing in themselves we can never know

it's that

knowledge true knowledge in

the marxs sense of the word

mar stalin is a dialectical materials's a marxist

so he's not a rationalist coming from the western

school of thinking but

soviet thinkers intellectuals i mean they're coming from a western view of

m

approach to science and knowledge

when they speak this way

for stalin

knowledge is also knowledge of

is also knowledge of the reconciliation of opposites

ok

knowledge is not fortolen

to make an object fully transparent and fully mastered by the consciousness

knowledge is the insight into how certain things

do have limits how certain things

uh cannot be fully uh

made consciously

naked

to consciousness

it's not that there are some idealist things in themselves it's that

there it's not that there are specific things like that it's that

consciousness does not create its own premises its premises are material

so these premises

will always be with us as much as we go forward infinite into the future

we will leave behind

an infinite past

as much as we know we will also not know

so you see this is a dialectic view right and we just mean knowledge

in a kind of western scientific sense

in the marxist sense of knowledge

of course yes we can know right because we already define knowledge

in such a way that takes into account its own inherence

contingency and limitations

yes

well that's that's uh that's what i was

that's what i was talking about

and the

the issue is for freud

right

if we have the view that we can make the unconscious fully intelligible to consciousness

we lose the view that as even as mature adults as human beings we may not care about freud but every normal adult right in soviet society and every society

we come with a

a kind of reconciliation with the fact of the

we have an unconscious

mean we cannot fully

we have to acknowledge

laws of

social intercourse

they are not

consciously intelligible like

are for example loyalty to family are

a love of family our feel you know whatever sexual feelings

in general right

areum

mmm

the way we behave our norms our mors our customs

we do these things

not because we rationally premise we

we don't actually know why we obey these laws but these laws still are real right

so

not so to make everything completely transparent to consciousness

um

begs the question

of

irrelation of consciousness to itself

consciousness in its contingency i mean if everything is completely transparent to consciousness

at what point does consciousness

mm

make itself intelligible to itself and this is an old problem

of philosophy

right

nowson's marks

marxus has translated this problem

from philosophy to

materialist science of

ah production

but insight of marks in the realm of psychology was never drawn out

and that's why it's a problem

weill yea

the i'm not trying to say that there is like for example you gave the the our law for family

or we can even sail that lake

this modern bourgois family that is

why do we do this we don't we don't consciously and we what about the soviet family like right the soviet family even soviet family not even the

modern boz sovit

the the socet family was

still plagued with the remnants of foodalism like

h is agree i don't i think there was a socialist family that was h socialist in its own right i don't

mean a

what you're talking about maybe is a view that was in the minority in the twenties

where they've believed

eventually all children will be communally raised there will be no more marriage no more family bonds

no no no nothing

let's talking about this

okay

um

like there's another guy

i don't know if you heard him but he was a close friend of stalins

a the pan of squirts off

he wrote the report

asking the question what is political economy

and in that report talked about how not only the mode of production change

then they do't do it instantly

and modes of production key remnants of all societies

and it's especially seen

in the superstructure right the

the family is included in the superstructure we can see that even the in the mode production which is capitalism today

how would ant

land the rent is a remnant of feudalism

so even even that basic core thing wasn't poblished except for china maybe

uh

and and then we can only talk about the the family which is

even more backwards and it's matches with angeles origins of the family private property in the state

who says that like

even after mos of production change

very very often

the family is the is always like

a few decades or even centuries back

branight its

so

the the soviet family

considering the

the the majority of peasantry that was there

considering the

the

the presence of the of commodity production with coal horses

considering all those factors and especially like the

the bourgeois takeover of krushovn and all those revisionists

we can make it very safe that that

we don't we don't actually we haven't actually seen maybe we've seen the embryos the little beginnings of the socialist family and how it would

be built by it

but otherwise it's just the remnants of semi feudalism

of russia because the family cannot

adapt as fast

as the mode of production to me yeah you

to me this way of thinking to me

from in soviet thought right soviet thinking

it is itself a remnant of social democratic marxism

orthodox marxism of social democracy

because it's inconsistent with

lenin's dialect

discovery

it's a stages view according to which

there are stages and then

there's remnants and there's mere vestige

but a dialectic view does not say for example

this is remnant of feudalism it says this

persistence we must redefine what we think feudalism is we must redefine

it is socialism we must redefine what this means in the first place don't keep our definition the definition must change

according to the

how it the thing unfolds in his

so the problem for me is for example this is actually a good example

ah

all of the vestige of feudalism in the soviet union

there's a view eventually the vestige will be disappeared and we will no longer have as our foundation a prior mode of production

socialism will itself premise its own foundation

but to me this is the same error as rationalism because

um

it's the issue of rational conscious thinking premising its own foundation which is in an impossibility proven by freud

in the same way

socialism will

for me

if we've ascribe to a view of socialism

of a communism as a stage in which

the mode of production this new mode of production has finally fully

eliminated the past

and created its own premise

grounded its own premise right as a mode of production a socialist family socialist society socialist

more's art everything

this will forever be a type of impossible thing in the future

which is how soviet marxis leninist ideology

betrayed communism always always in the future right

to me

ah

socialism

is not referring to an end state in the future

to me

there's never a possibility to ground the premise the more we enter the future

the more we discover the past

so this remnant of feudalism can never ever be disappeared for example

that it will acquire new form

acquire new form

uh because

feudalism

be unconscious ah

a backwards previous state of the society

these refer to aspects that premise

the foundation

of socialist construction

rational conscienus i should say socialist construction in the first place

and

soviet

uh the soviet union

to me one of the contributing factors of

it's

collapse

without the state could never ground

yuh uh find accomplice grounding its own premises

it could never actually

master the foundations that gave rise to it so this reflects in the geopolitical reality right

mean eventually geopolitically speaking

soviet leaders have inherited

a situation

late in the soviet period

that

this marxist leninist ideology has not prepared them for right they have no way of

managing this chaotic afghanistan and the central asian demographic situation

and uh

the newfound hostilities i mean

these are all things they were unprepared for this new geopolitical environment the wars in the middle east

so

um

but the the ice has been warm

sory

well yes but the ice has been broken mclinin said

yes

we have all this mess around us but we started and we

are are doing stuff

and also

o you know i mean in the in the in the late spirod like

the soviet leaders could not

h yeah oh well well that was yeah that was actually

like uh i studied in in my circle

um with the

like we studied together about um the coseigins reforms

you know abot them have heard abt the yeah

yeah

yeah

so i

we spend it in the main reason like why you and they actually happened is

because they didn't know what to do they just even breshen of later said stuff that like

well what the funt do we need to sporm for right he literally said is word except maybe it slurs

you literally said well

this reform but why would we need this reform

so the it was just the result of the

i stalin was describing it

the first generation communists were reading and memorizing the

the books

they were like

completely dedicated and stopped second generation red learned marxism from

from like textbooks

third generation learns marxism from a

from the

on pamphlets

the fourth of the last generation was ckrushavites and this

this new born

party elit that completely they just find found themselves at the at the top but didn't know what to do what do we do next well we restored everything before

before the water we

we puts everything in place but now we have

a big economy that we cannot handle we have the contradiction that we cannot comprehend

and plus we are not educated and then later in the eighties

most of the party was just physically old of old age let me explain the

i agree with what you're saying but let me explain the dialectic of

the limits of the dialect

like unconscious the remnants of feudalism etcetera

i'll explain it like this let's say we a

want to engage of a liquidation of the past

so there's many soviet avan guarde artists who say this kind of stuff

in the twenties the twenties crazy time right

to liquidate the past completely liquidate the past

eventually you realize you succeed you liquidate the whole past annihilated

but then you come up

with a problem

is

not just that you fail

right to get rid of the past

what that

you yourself do not know what to do

to fill the hole in the past

what to replace it with

right

you don't know how you get to this point of power but then

ah

for example

i'll give you an example stalin he writes in his economic problems of the u s sr

why the golcs form of property must be preserved

because if we make it all state property

we're going to rob the peasants

it be a form of theft

but i also think there's another reason

if all coco's property became

property of the state

this state would not even know

how to plan

and tell order the peasants what to do

because

the peasants themselves know

how to make the crops and their local situation and they know

all of the contingencies and the mistakes and the

all these things that happened on the lower level

and this is an information input

that the state needs is a form of data right the state takes for granted

just like these big tech companies google amazon facebook

it's a privatization of socialism more you know about this right

y but this is a difference question

they

need our data they cannot just do that is the most valuable commodity today why because they cannot just

tell us what to do

they don't know us right

we in order to acquire knowledge

to control us

we they need to leave some room for a spontaneous human

reality

that's not planned not rationally controlled and not conditioned

a

by their plan but their

agenda right

that's why data has become so so valuable so this this is

aspc

it it's a it's a very specific paradox and contradiction

i don't think in the soviet union it was ever

um

understood

well it was by engliosh cock

if you know about him

was that

blus car

uh victor muscoff if i'm not uh mistaken

it was like a soviet cyberneticis

a guy that like pushed for august

m

yes you're right you're right ya

the the i don't think it's like actually like a secret reason why they didn't collectivise the call collectivise the

the or like nationalize the coll houses

i think it was pretty well understood that like

we're our planning system is just going to fail on us and we're not going to be able to plan it out we don't have

neither the information nor the resources and it then manifested like in the future in the eighties

the like basically the planners

in in svice system wen they were just afraid that they will lose their jobs

their comfortable little

mathematician calculating jobs

and they didn't didn't want to concede this to computers and to stuff like that but that's also a result of the

of the newborn party of the lots of class consciousness

communit i agree but even in a state where state of affairs i should say

where you can have complete cybernetic control of the economy

there's an aspect of human input

that the machine cannot create

is the problem re

yeah well that's that's just solt by approximation we don't need to plan it all out we can

we can make approximate plans but it's still better than what the soviet system had

back then

but we don't need to have we don't need to have like commodity production and coll hoses

so

so like co horses where quanitatively different from just

a quantitative burden on the planning

uh

on the planning system right

our hoses were qualitatively different because they were the source of commodity production

in the in the the u tars uh

like in the u s s ar they were the last

uh commodity production which then which then like

spread into into the the dark the the black market economy and the

corrobs not stalin did say that

it was a socialist form of commodity

morderty b

so a socialist come on possibility of a socialist commodity

to me proves it's not just a

remnant of the past it's a new stage of history

its well stone stone sad that

the commodity was able to serve

different modes of production and will serve

of socialism but he didn't say that it is a an element that needs to be preserved or that

either

ah

is favorable to be preserved so i think if stalin had the

i i mean yeah this is a make a make believe scenario but if ste

hads the conditions and the power to abolish commodity production

and to if he if the objective conditions were there

then they totally would have abolished commoditiy production and in the sin replaced it with the exchange of products

but that didn't happen and stund still like stw said yeah it serves our

but it's still a source of capitalism it's still of source a source of a

of like when mark started his capital the for very first chapter he talks about the commodity and he then derives everything derives the whole capitalist system out of it

right from this tiny minuscual object hea

andveals all the contradictions and all theerrors

and so stalin held this position very very closely and tiightely and said that

yes it is commodity production that serve serves the socialist system for now

but it is still fundamentally social social fundamentally

commodity production

but why it's commodity but

but the form of the commodity specifically right is

produced

as a commodity

not necessarily when it fits marx's exact description

which was a thing that can be exchanged unconditionally for

anything else you're free to do with it as you please

for example the socialist commodities a commodity

but the range of exchange is limited they call cousse

ah

can sell

the surpluses of grain production

to the state

and in return they will be given

money

right

so this is a specific range of

commodity

but here's the intriguing thing

this is a very very important point

socialism

only made

explicit

and discovered something that was true for capitalism too

in capitalism

we have a universal commodity form

right

we have a universal commodity form

where

every commodity is equal

right

but when we actually study capitalism

may be formally on the surface yes legally yes

there's a legal universal commodity form

but when we study capitalism and marx did this

we can see

there is' always a mainstay of production which usually did take the form of grain

in the classical capitalist society

imins was what was studied by the physiocrats and the old political economists

with grain you know

and so it comes about from a specific arrangement

of uh between like

the universal exchange of money

right gold right the universal commodity money

is always conditioned in a determinate way so in the soviet union i'll give you an example

in soviet union

why is there the commodity form arises when the state pays the call calls

in return for surpluses of grain production right

on top of the quotas there were quotas that were not paid for to my knowledge right

and then there was also an excess that the state would buy

so this excess that's being sold the market

they sold it on the ca has market

but there was some causes

which were similar to what you described

also so so causes sell surpluses to the state

and coal closes

cases sell them

freely in an exchange market

ya okay on uh

but the the uh

the range of selling grain

on the market is restricted right

yes of course yeah complete completely restricted yeah

so

not completely but restricted to a certain rationale

yeah yeah

we who buys the grain on colco's market

o it was a cit the market

so basically

um

yes for for fun for

for production the state bought the grain that like

other enterprises

but if it were a product that was produced for for like consumption after buying like apples no no i mean just grain i know the garden

i know about the garden system

but

just for grain the surpluses of grain that the clcses wasn't it only the state could buy them

well yeah only the state could use them

yeah yeah they we that's that's what i mean yeah so

it's that specific relationship

ah

where this

the state

the commodity form is created when

the surpluses of grain on the col course

are sold to the state

and this actually creates the value form of the socialist commodity right

so much grain equals so much quantity of

nominated money right

what

in even in the traditional so that's why it was called the mainstay of the society

that's the terminology i'm familiar with

so in but the thing is is that

even in capitalism

this is how

not formally but

functionally this is also how it works in capitalism too

the universal commodity form

ah

may appear universal

but there is a specific determinant

uh type of exchange

pre seding it

i mean that is its foundation that all other commodities take for granted

so for example today oil functions in this way right

it's a separate discussion but

even during nineteenth century capitalism grain functioned in this way

all other exchange

of commodities

we're a result of this original

um

and a surpluses you know they're a result of primitive accumulation

the surpluses of production traditionally result from

ah

squeezing out from peasants

their labor and

there

yeah you know reducing them to paupersm and subsistence

for slavery and so on and so on

but it's precisely this surplus

and its denomination

right through money

that is the primordial basis of the commodity form

through primitive accumulation and so on and so on

so socialist commodity

it's not just a new commodity

it's away the state

makes explicit

a determinate form of even the capitalist commodity form

i mean that's how it worked in capitalism too it's just

it pretended it was universal but it really wasn't universal aow

well yes but i don't think that's like the what makes a commodity essentially a commodity

even if it's even if like you decided beforehand that you're going to sell it to somebody

like especially since this ties into the topic that

remember that french guy who was asking you about

ya um he was asking me ous uh

weather services are commodities

yet

so i argued like i learned what she told me and then i argued with my collective and then from my collective i

understood that uh basically marxism doesn't differentiate services and uh

and and products like material products as come out as not commodities and commodities but like all of them are commodities because it's all commodified

so the point is

is labor a commodity

yes yes

yes

you say es labor power we should say yes labor power in the commodity

well you do sell it

to a person that is pretty fin right you do decide before selling its in fact you learn it

you give it a loan

two

to the capital is that employs you and then he pays it off at the end of the month

or in the other or at the end of the two weeks

ya tho

labor is commodified under capitalism

first

you're saying that like

there's a separation between

phase that the commodities produced in the is that it is exchanged

yeah but first of all i haven't found any like when where marks

describes i think yous a li circulation is what he deals with i think in volume two

yes but

labor itself labor

before being produced enough to be or like

before being used

and after being used

it doesn't circulate slabor power

it is first

bought and when it is bought it is also instantly used

right so it's

it doesn't circulate in between

um in between uh when it's made right so labor power it's for it to be

for it to be labor power it has to be crystallized in a commodity

it's different from itself you're talking about abstract labor but right it has to be separate from itself

so yeah

to for it to be

but as a commodity the capitalism is is buying it before the process of production before it is

although it is loan to the capitalist but we can say this

it is bought with the

with only later and

payment paying it out

oh like marx also also was talking about how

first

first there was already a bunch of commodities and then only the capitalist

bys the labor power

so like it's not even it's not they don't even take risks

ah

so yeah

like i just don't see the differentiation in the

in before it before it at

and after it's created and before it is bought

i don't see it in labor power and i respectfilly don't see it inor

after it was created

and so

um

you're saying

even before it's bought

it's a it's a exertion of labor power

yes

lthough how can that be measured

well

when you go when you go to

to get him to employ yourself to work

you worked for a month and then you only get paid

the process of acquisition only happens when the labour power is already transferred on the object

yea uh yes but

labor power

is not the metaphysical substance it's only defined at the level of of

the contradiction internal to price so the reason labor power is measured at all

is because of

how it's measured b

through through

the money

right

so you may

you may get you may get paid a month later

f

your labor is being measured

through time

right

principally through time

it's being measured through time which leads to the amount you're going to get paid right

know labor power has gone

labor power value and the capitalist pays you the full value of your labor power yes in fact you are not on

you're not only

being a selling your labor power

which is the the

youre not only selling your labor power but also working overtime doing labor

that does not cover the costs of your labor power

so like you

the cost or the value of the late of your labor pow is however much it keep you need to like survive for one month or one day

or whatever

but youyh but but the subsistence thing is the

misleading because it's not pure it's not physical subsistence it's just

it's all relative culturally is what mark says

to whatever it's vveries well labor power in abstract labor time and that not labor power

um but it is still still

the tran the process of acquisition the worker basically loans the capitalist there

their labor

and their labor power in fact

and only after it has been already applied to an object they get the payment

so you see it's very similar to the fact that the deal is made before

the the product is shipped

the the deal is made

w for the grain before the

the grain itself is produced

right what what what what is the significance though

well i think that's your argument though no

the if grain is if they deal with for grain is made before

the grain is actually produced

in a similar way that the

that the

a labor power the deal for labor power is made before the labor power is applied

and then there since labor power is is a commodity that cannot be a valuable

thing that differentiates modern commodity production which is like pre determined which is like kind of planned

that does not differentiate commodity production that does not make it not commodity production

since this relation was going for ever since capts in the capitalis i'm i'm i'm not quite following you so

so you apply a certain amount of labor power to a thing

and before the capitalist pays you you do this

yes

so

you

ya ya but

what

what's the significance though as far as what i said

uh what

as i understood your arguments

oh you were you were saying that like

commodities in the modern sense are differentiated for example grain

oil like oil

because

because like they're already they already have a receiver before being made

they already have a buyer before being made right

are you are you talking about my critique of service or are you talking about

how i'm saying the commodity form

about b

grain not service

what did i say about grain in the debate

just now are you saying what i said just now

no no no no you miss you misunderstand me you misunderstood me

when i made the argument ao how soviet soviet socialist commodity form

merely discover something inherent to the capitalist one

that's the one you're talking about right

mhm but and what no no no that that that's that's not uh it's a more complex point because

we do not yet get to the wage laborer yet the wage laborer

is after is when

labor becomes a commodity but in this stage specifically the origin of the commodity form

is what allows us to denominate labour as a commodity

so before we can denominate labour as a commodity

there has to be a certain structure a sociological structure right

which is between the state form

and between the material foundation of state

ok

so

in fuderalism

right

the transition to capitalism

there are surpluses of grain production

ok

and this serve and then this

these then become squeezed out through primitive accumulation it's a very long history you have to talk about the banks and finance

but more or less

through a primitive accumulation in which there are surpluses of grain production

to exchange

forour

money right

this is what gives rise to the universal capitalist commodity form

through a primitive accumulation

so it's not a unit it's not just it's not simply that

labor already has a receiver

ah

it's that the receiver has a definite

universal not sorry not usual

definite kind of social structure

like so socialist commodity for example

is socialist because

there is it's not just because a receiver is already decided for

it's because the receiver is the soviet state

it's the state of the whole people

right

ah it's not a private interest it's the uni it's the state right socialist state

mm

however

mm

so this is not

it's still socialism i agree

but we should change what we think

a socialism means because

even in capitalism

ah

this

y

purchase of a social surplus

right

from feudalism the surpluses of grain production

is itself would give rise to universe not only not only that it's much more complex ok

because primitive accumulation is initiated in the history of capitalism

by the state

right

so the state itself is usually what's responsible in some capacity or form or another

for the separation of peasants from their original means of production

and the aggregation of peasant or some other kind of

labor

into a primitive accumulation to produce

a social surplus so

this surplus itself bears the stamp of some kind of original

state violence

right usually typically

so

in this way the state then denominates money and prints money through banks and this is why it's complicated we have to talk about kind of banks and stuff so although the state is not the recipient

the one purchasing the grain

your money

money is itself being defined by

this same relation

which is the production of a social surplus

uh ya

not that the state is the one that

bise it

is only an explicit acknowledgment of the state's

responsibility

for the like for example

the socialist state is the one who created the cau cause right

so what they're actually buying is just the consequence of their own original m accumulation

in the capitalist society

the only difference

is that

this original the

primitive accumulation which is nonetheless yes created by the state

right

mm

is not bought by the state

it doesn't by its own consequence it's bought by

it's bought by some usually monopoly

entities and so on and so

mmhmm

so

well after the after gmve accumulation

right there is this this beginning phase this bootstrap

but after the bootstrap is done it outlived itself

and the commodity

commodity production becomes the fundamental driving force behind society of society

and it doesn't no longer means

the state to primitively to accumulate right it no longer

a needs needs all those preconditions and preeisting

uh so social like um

they are conditions

to begin to to continue accumulating

and then

and then the circulation and accumulation of capital happens

then

than the commodity

it was pulled by the bootstrap by the old government

and then it's stood up in its full mind

and became the fundamental driving law

and force of society and it no longer needed and so the the old feudal state the old

expropriators were were dealt away with

the problem though is that

it's always a cycle

because as much as the old is there's a new right and then the cycle of primitive accumulation

a creates a new impetus for the unleashing of the forces of production

and the deepening of of capitalist

commodity production

so this accelerated process

according to marx and angles eventually leads to socialism itself

um ya

but

i like this phrase bootstrap phase because

it's clear in the soviet union

i think the problem of soviet union compared to china

is that

both of them experience this bootstrap

face

but only in china did a real socialist economy

take off

in the soviet union it was always stuck in a bootstrap face basically

never taking off into a

real economics

you know form socialist economic form is in like a

sense of economy like comm

a real uh

association between human beings not based

ah

only on staatee

mmhmm

wow

about china

i am

i don't really believe them to to have built socialism not yet

at least

h

but yeah you're right about how the us are and i would like to add to that the are was in the in the bootstrap phase

up until the death of stalin and after the second world war

that was the real the pivot moment in which

the socialist the the law of socialism right like stwn described it

could have taken and because became the fundamental driving law of soviet society

but it didn't

it didn't do to the same kind of

primitive accumulation of socialist society

or the bootstrap of bootstrap of socialist society

it failed it it stopped developing and it stopped replacing the old bases

with a new one

and that's that's also seen in considens reforms and khrushov's

um secret speech and and all those basically take take over of burrazi

but

yeah

they were in this bootstrap phase they were

trying to develop and to replace the old back bases

but they needed support from the state for that

that's yeah i can agree with you i can agree with you on that

that's uh that's very

h cool

now

um yea we were talking about commodities and how

and how it depends on the primitive accumulation right

yeah

it depends on

and my point was to say that like

it depends

at first but then since it becomes it's and yes like you so you you said it's cyclical

h and we can see this for example in new in new productive forces that arise today

like uh program like like i i t sphere

programming

and they are old and they're all like at first

just nice stuff that the that people do

and then

a big corporation comes and like basically expropriates and quotes

and starts bootstrapping it

and the

pots

the new so the new social productive force

into the frame framework of capitalist relations of production and yes it's sick sec cyclical

but i think it's a

it happens every time

first of all because of the capitalist basies

and second of all it happens with a new sphere every time so yeah old production will not cyclical will not turn back to primitive accumulation right already existing i agree yeah

like agriculture will not return to primitive accumulation of agriculture but there will be a new

layer of the forces of production that takes on the primary site

of the commodities

this is why i think there is the significance of oil

because

oil denominates yeah

the

consumption use of a given society

right

and this is where it's kind of tricky for marxism because

what does consumption measure right consumption

oil is not just well i mean thank you soprecate mean marxs dialectic mentality was the key to anatomy of of

ape is the anatomy of man

so with the evolution of history

it's not that something new comes but we have better insight into the old

so we can see that

grain used to function like oil does today

right

it denominates a type of consumption of the society

that's a necessary promise

four

the normal exchange and continuation of

commoundity exchange to be possible

but with oil specifically i

we should really look at consumption

ah as

whether this consumption is just measuring consumption or production of new forms

of labor

right crystallized in data

measured by big tech and so on and so on

because consumption is

is data right

how we consume is the form of data

that big tech companys harvest from us

so it's an interestingu question ya

yes

so again

that answers the question about

about

the commodity production in the users are right

to refresh me please on how

again

knowing what i know now

what's uh what did you

what did you mean and

about your s size is a great production

what i meant is that

it's not a completely new type of mode of production

it's merely a

it's merely the state

becoming cognizant

and conscious

of

economic laws

that existed even under capitalism

so it's a eum

it's in a way a remnant of capitalism or a new beginning of capitalism

h not not even so much a remnant or even a new beginning as much as it is

a real this is kind of philosophy philosophical sounding a re

a regrounding of the essence of what capitalism was

we thought capitalism was this but here is the true essetse

of his old mode of production

so it's it's almost as if socialism is merely

the true essence of

capitalism

it's the writ marx calls it the riddle of history slt it's also the riddle of

capitalism

course

capitalism is a riddle and socialism is a

the answer

because there are laws of how capitalism functions when i say capitalism i'm not just talking about

specifically capitalism but the mode of production how

things are being produced and the laws governing economic

economy in general right

socialism

and

discovers that

it when for example another good example maybe this will clarify it

is the national question

when a buzw was state

says that this is a universal state everyone is equal no differences

they're lying

there are

the national difference is there's ethnicities and so on and so on

so it's not true in reality there is thisse different ethnicities so on

in the soviet union

on the one hand they say yes we're a universal state but

we also acknowledge the national realities there are different soviet republics

there are recognized languages there are recognized nationalities recognized ethnicities

each group is treated in a special way special representation

special needs taking care of their special unique

the

developmental needs and so on and so on

so um

it's like it's

same reality but different

more correct way of relating to reality it's the same economically

that i'm trying to say

yeah

um i think i can i graft it

with if the were making the knowledge you can say it's like the salesman of freedom to us the word the sells us

tell us that we're free tot stu but we're obviously not free

and as the burgeoisie tells us that we are

h that we are all equal we're obviously not equal s difference comem economic from like the mode of production itself

to to me the more of production is something different that the

uh means that that shows ore

our differ that evident siates and on and only preserves our differences

and of course

the withering away of the nation is gonna happen

it will happen for far in the future but we know it will happen

it's just that this the u s asr did wasn't

wasn't this bourgeois liar they just

had the guts in them to acknowledge that the nation

still exists

and

they it should be recognised as such it shouldn't be

hid behind the curtain and told and everybody shouldn't be told that like

yet no you're actually equal in fact but you're not they just acknowledge that

then the differences are are still there

but i think i

where i maybe disagree probably disagree

is

i don't think

that this contradiction between

ok we want this eventually to be disappear

but we will acknowledge and tolerated for now

for me

i disagree there is a point in the future in which the difference disappears

that precise difference to me is the difference of dialectic

and the

to me it will only be deepened

is different so

like nation for example will not be eternal right

but

the contradiction posed by nations to the aspirations of a universal state

will just be reproduced in a new way the past

will weigh on us

more

as we

arrive into the future

but the more we escape the past

the more it will

open up to us

well so that's what i'd like to like bring up

the nation is egation

nation the bushoan nation is

um igation

oh if we look at pre class society you can say that it's a negation of

inherent biological

the universal feeling of belonging to to the planet's earth

because the in the primitive society well in the communist society n in the primitive long

just

very quickly in the primitive communist society there' is no this thing of

earth it's like a pagan new age gaya call

right but

this in the primitive communist society it's not the

they don't have a universal feelings all the time

in fact the primitive communist society is even more a

exclusive there are words for example in indigenous in america indigenous tribes right

they have words for other tribes and for themselves for themselves they just say we are real human being

just human right

just to describe another as a other universal human is only within the tribe

and outside the tribe

it's not even human

it

like there's no sense of others humanity

right

so this is very common in the primitive communist society

and to have no sense of universal humanity or

maybe there are special deals between tribes

and they recognize each other respect each other

but a foreigner a stranger

's like an animal a completely

hoorens alien

weleat alienation right

so uh

i have to disagree you know this to me there is not

nation does not

spinally nation does not refer to a

yeah

a negation of this original universalism

nation is the first form

of a real universalism

where

it becomes a nation different from other nation not because it says we're different from others

but because its universalism reaches a limit

like

french nation for example

liberty i gality fraternity right

becomes almost defined politically this is the universal meaning of what it means

to be a human being

so it just went from nation it w just went from tribe to nation

but it never

started as a

as universal

h

i didn't finish wanted to save that length

so that's the key point the key point was that the tribe

h only recognized this universalism within itself and in in fact it was so extreme

that the tribe inside itself

the there wasn't a word for me there wasn't a word for i there is a word for w

for week

when you say i you mean the tribe

so

you were you your tribe

and that's

that's only limited by the limits of the modive production of primitive communism so if it grows too big

it's gona fail it's not going to produce enough if it grows too small its agader

so the tribe is the

has this sense of universalism only within itself

uh because it is

forced and otherwise it cannot

but the nation

is actually the tribe

trying to nagate

the the globalization

so after after humans have developed like slavery and feudalism

when the bourgeois revolutions happened when the when capitalist came

the capitalism actually

took separates nations separate economies a mods of production and its

developed and it grew all into one big

triede if we may say and it made the whole economy involved new global economy

and the nation is in fact a negation

it like is is this

deeealing is this

strive to negate the fact that you are you are now

the part of the whole world

you negate this you try to negate and you form the nation

and then when socialism comes and puts everything

to to the plates where it belongs to the shelves where it belongs

the negation of the negation happens and people finally acknowledge

the the new norm the new standard

of the global

the global tribe the problem for the problem from my perspective is the

there is never an original globalism

the globe in fact

the negation is the globalism

because let me give you an example

globalism today

is what

it's americanism

right it's disguises american national interests

that's a globalism

we always begin not with a flat universalism but we begin with a problem

a nation

attempts a problem of common humanity what is our humanity

nation addresses this problem in a particular way

right

this is a form of our humanity

to me

socialism does not replace nation with globalism

socialism

begins

mm

the ability for nations to respect one another

is more powerful universalism

than for tribe to respect one if a tribe respect one another

they are only respecting a small part of each other's humanity

if nations are able to recognize each other and respect each other

as much of a rift of difference

between them

they have a the

and

common connection

because of that

a recognizing all the wealth of difference because

nations are more different from each other than a tribe different from another tribe right

tribes are small

they don't encompass that much wealth of humanity

diversity

a nation encompasses more than just a tribe various aspects of our humanity

right

is attended to by a nation

referred to as a bination

for nations to be able

to mutually recognize each other

is a step closer to universalism

now i don't think we enter from nation to glaube

we enter from nation because

again more we move into the future the more we delve into the past

so

when

the next form of differentiation of humanity

and i don't think differentiation will

be overcome

the differentiation will

b

acquire a new form dialectically

but the next one is civilization

big space because

there are civilizations multinational right

china has multiple nationalities russia has multiple nationalities

perhaps india iran

ur former ottoman empire

flo

big civilization right

and

we see that the socialist

this is what's paradox

the proletarian dictatorship

as recreated

revived if you will the old

civilization

a civilization means coexistence fusion between

different ethnicities and nationalities

so

the socialist society

didn't see the soviet perspective was just that

we're just dealing with this temporarily in the future all will disappear

but to me this is no different then

heaven

all of this will not matter we'll go to heaven everything will be fine right

with here on earth the soviet union

revived the russian

russian civilization

which was forgotten after peter the great

from his westernization

because before westernization there was a deeper type of harmony

and coexistence between

groups within

in in the russian empire

my point is i know i'm going to rambling but my my point is i

we don't go from nation to glob

there's even more

deeper type of

unity

of people than a nation

th

okay

my points

i wasn't comparing nations and tribes

as in

nations differentiate each other and tribes in differentiate differentiate each other

um

i wanted to say

that in fact when nations formed

it was just

just like when a tribe split inside of itself

so

um

like

the tribe

was i didn't say talk about how it was related to external tribes

but how the members of the tribe related

internally within each other

and since the tribe was basically mini modes of production

they were running around and like you

people were confined to the tribe

and now they're not confined to a nation or the tribe now they're confined to the whole globe

in fact nations is a split within the tribe itself

that is the negation of the unity of the single tribe

that is our globe

and then

but i i as we saw it

but my problem is are the lob is in the

but the globe is not a tribe that's the problem

why is not it a single

full organism of functioning moteor production

no uh at no point does h it become the globe

in general its very determinate specific relation like for example

america projects globalism right

but it's a very clear structure of american

unipolar imperialism

right

so it's not it's not a globe

it's a very specific relation between civilization

we that's just a product of class society

says the tribe wasn't class society but there we didn't see the same but their relation trip

the relation has only been established

because of the class scidy

without class society there's no relation between humanities

in general it's all classres no

without less society globalism be takes a different form

no it takes let me be clear i'm not talking about

post capitalist socialism

i'm saying

four

right there's no original

global universal

the tribe

has no universal humanity

oh hot

okay okay

so

still the what do you say about the wither and with the

and the language

i don't think

i don't like the language withher away i don't think stalin did write this explicitly

i know what

i'm also a maoist so i can

yeah

say he's part of his thirty percent role

i don't think h

i don't think

the nation language will wither away i think nation and language

ah

will change

but not never fully with her away

only wan

wasn't the nation already losing

like it was already withering away and the

in the u s s r like i can speak from first hand experience caause i'm from yes yes

because that was the budh in the nation state but this is why it's archaic

more ancient

because

at the same time the nation is withering away

new type of

a rediscovery

of old

ancient kind of

not ancient medieval uh

russian civilization is rediscovered

and in this way

it's not that nation become wither away it

comes more we see this today right

we there's big contradiction a big contradiction between

the russian fear the russian polarity

russia kazakhstan belarus

conflict with ukraine

it's george and so on

is a big contradiction between this like big russian russian space

and um

and h

the west america and

lesser extent to europe but america specifically

so

this is a new differentiation even deeper differentiation than a nation right because it's not just a nation it's a civilization

and h

ah

be with the exhumation of civilization instead of the nation state

also comes

an era

beyond not just the bourgeois individual

but even our psycho psychological

should i say ore kind of fm

inner psychological self

through social media and big tag

and popular culture and stuff

so we have a new type of subjectivity beyond the bourgeois individual subject and

by the way not

becoming more collective more collectivistic

but becoming more and more a

how should i have put it smaller

not big or small at the mike

from collective to the bourgeois individual

and even smaller now it's our o

psychological self

which is not the adgurcy of bourgeois subject right

so it same ll analogy you go from let's say

the feudal principality

to the nation

and you go to the civilization

it's all mirror each other

civilization it does get bigger territorially

but also

is a more acute difference a more acute negation

well yes

um

how will the

what stops for new civiliations from forming

nothing

nothing

term

wea it's up

we in this way we are discovering our humanity

through history

but this also comes from

rediscovering the past

well i know i know

but look like an example from for our from

like my experiences exs i'mple moldovan

we you know the bestter ive in territory

have you heard of it yeah

it was only taken

uh or taken it was only

handed to russia i don't know which language exactly to use for this

um in the in the eighteen hundreds in eighteen twelve

and it became a a gooberni right

but we historically have pretty much been a blank slate we haven't had much bussarab yet

um we we we do have a big history of darck civilization of like

uh romania

of this this region stepan is of big significance

and in general romania is a very big influence on moldovan civilization

by

as a

asz basarabia was handed to russia

we saw the russian influence and then further as vasarabia was returned to the soviet union

uh we saw

such a deep russian influence on our society that is it has become

completely different from romanians

and it has become something akin to russians

so our culture has more in common with russia now than it

pdd historically

uh in in common with the rome eat itt

no it had

a lots

in common with romania

but then

something happened

and we switched over so

basically some kind of eraser happens we became

parts of the if you if you how you call it's russian civilization right even though we never wear russian

so

if when communism when socialism comes

universally wheen socialism comes

on the entire globe

what will starp the

this

what will stop the same process

from happening

all over the all over the world

like any eracer

and then establishment of a common denominator with

that ententire globe

because there's two things right one it's not just an erasre

it's

yeah

joining the russians

it's not just a racal

it's

creation to write

so that's the problem is like erasure is always determinant

it's like hegel says determint negation it's always determined

right

so uh

that's the problem

it's always going to take a form

and it's the problems internal to that form

that give rise to like a national independence movement a separatist movement and so on and so on

okay

this has been a lot

we were we were we

we were at the commodities

we wey

i i understood the the deal with kman is right

yea um

irs in general we were first a a thganism rightes

at foloshinef and then we talked about the soviet union

more deeply

but do you want to like

um get this documents

or something because it's an interesting read and you can like mee right pos po in our discord on like we have like

where's library yeah libraries yes

i can i can send the link and likek you can even try to debunk it on on the or or maybe maybe i didn't relate the ideas clearly enough and you yeah

i'll look over

thre is

i wanted to to tell you so i also ask you about the question uh which

in russian it's called borsdism

uh it's leaderism but i don't know how

how well it's relaates the

award what it was wasically was the dsm right

voicdism that voicism ost of it voics

word is likero from the leaderaer y or some

and and um

basically it's a critique

that many communists give to others

which which whichhear goes like

you build your movements not around the

you build your movement central to yourself

so hos what would happen with your movement what would do you predicted happened with your movement if theoretically you die tomorrow

you die and you are never seen on the interne again then the thing is i'm just a media personality right

i'm not wahed

washed i'm not wasorhed

mm

because vosed is a olitical it's not just a me

mediod right

vost is

political leader who is represented

by media i am not a political leader i don't lead a movement

i'm just a funny guy on the internet

you know

so

i can't be

was

was

um okay but uh can you mo can you like uh

i saw how you moved your followers to to join the c p usa and that's awa wass powerful and great that was

rang with something to differentiate you from

from f

hassan and other left two weres riight the you actually

started using your media presence as a leverage to start to develop the subjective factor

but do you want to like um

for example recommend your followers to start marxist reading circles give them literature to read

and yes its like some kind of

some kind of standardized testing to check their skills and understanding of it

yes i'm doing a new show

it's going to be called professor has it's has it's a

uh it's um

it's going to be like

entertaining form of that education but

we have circles in our discord and

people are

taking initiative and so on

but yes yes we need i want to i want to standardize

the some of my unique

infrareds unique insights

i want to have simple

from

the person'm readingless

the problem is we are such a controversial way of reading

the basics of marxism and leninism

so i think that's we take care of that through media here and then

standard

the literature marxism leninism

uh is good enough

it's good enough right

just people have to interpret it the right way and

our community has done a good job of that they

always making new discoveries in

marx enangels lenin stalin mause writings

because we have put it put them in a new light

we've put them in a new light so they're always making new discoveries

mmhmm

infrared vision

that's great that's great do youll like

how do you feel if your follower starts

at the local level making reading circles

like between themselves maybe not even tied to you as a personality

good

good

do you want to encourage them

absolutely

i mean uh yes uh i just

for that i just warn warn people against the

dogmatism

that's the number one problem donmaism

because we live in a very different age than before so it's hard to interpret

what

mark ssman

best

yeah

uh before the shole queue i was talking

with a few like

one of your comrades or a few of your followers

and they were talking about how there's a big impact

that the western ideology has

or the fact that americans are just americanized and

it has in their thinking and analysis of the world

um do you do you want like a

ask people to

uh uh some of your followers some of you

some some of the followers who are not from america to give you like

uh materials and for example even youtubers even like communist media b people

from other countries

for example like i know a f youw russian ones if your chat if your chad knows

who

uh under rudo a

uh vasili sedonian

uh i like molo are they uh english speaking

a not a they russian speaking but for example ale como colomo commolo

ah sorry

he ha many of his videos have english subtitles

so i

he his chanel main

is illegalt economy economics is an economist

um a marxist economist in in russian academia

and he explains the loss of capital he also has some some opportunitit some some weird stuff something to be critiqued for obviously

but uh

and his videos are very very good for getting a non western perspective in it

especially since they have the

they have subtitles so you can check some of them out to the channels called prime numbers

ok or simple link link them in the suggestions channel and

if you ok ok

what one last thing before you go we can't talk about this topic but i'm just curious

you wanted to mention some stuff about lbt just

noa

so we can talk about it and i cannot give you my view but are you pro or against

um

i'm a neutral position there was a paper by a scientist lists of

talked about the rhetoric of the movement in the light of scientific facts

the paper was was very warning people they were like

no we do not condone violence we are completely against anything that you do based on this book no

we are only trying to research and understand it better

ah

so you this is what i want to discuss basically

yeah and from what i understand

it's a product the in the in the broadsense

in that sense that it's it was like an ancient greece people say

and it was in other societies

i can say that it's a product of cut of cls society

and in the

and in the narrow sense in the sense that

because

this event this phenomenon

it has a spic very specific form that it it takes today in it

it's

qualitatively different from what it was in nation greece and other societies

uh because it's a

it' is a capitalist phenomenon

and no we should not fight capitalism because of this

that's completely wrong

just that

ya we we we we w uh yea yea yea were

well

uh all i can say is uh you come from uh moldova

i think

other perspectives should be allowed to it's not allowed right but

you know i am mor i' i'm i'm a pro pro l g b t but

here those perspectives are like on the platform they're censored

i think other perspectives should be allowed

that's not aer go to go to i'm not again

i'm not against i'm proe to yeah yeah yeah i'm not saying that yeah yeah

so u ok just was curious and good conversation good talking

yeah thank you thank you a lot it was enlighting for me too

i

goodbye has

but

okay

i some guy want that was a really good

i mean a

i'm so tired i'm going to stay streaming don't worry about it i'm going to order food or staying streaming

but

that was really long

i mean that was really good but i'm just really tired

what

all right there's another guy who wants to debate me

till me to get in the queue

this guy's hostile this is like a bad guy who wants to debate me right

i'm' going to shoke you

while i order food

what do i order i don't know what what should a sleep deprive person eat

ont's to debate

my views on lgbt are not censored i'm not against them

i just don't think it should be prioritized

in any way

like it's literally that simple

i just think other people should be i'm just

i'm i'm against censorship i just want a more open fucking h

you know

way of

i i just hate how sensitive people are about shit you know

also i'm not lgbt so i'm not sensitive

if you know if someone sensitive and their l g b t

i mean you know just don't talk about it i get it because you know i would not

want someones you know you probably shouldn't

speak controversially to someone right

but i'm not so i don't

you know if you can you sy that you're not an ally i'm not a fucking ally

i'm a fuckin twenty five year old man

random arab dude living in michigan

and i'm not an ally ok

i mean

im i will protect my fellow human beings against abuse

and i protect you know i protect people in my discord from getting abused and shit

but if you in a non abusive and non you know

whatever

anti human way

just give me your fuckan opinion about shit

i it's not going to i'm not going to get triggered i don't fucking care right

but to be fair

if you come intll your islamophobic in a non disrespectful way

i don't give a fuck i'm not going to be offended if you even if you're racist

to me

not pers maybe not personally if you just respect me i get mad

in any way right

but like if you talk shit about lebanese people to me

i might even agree i'm just kidding

but

you know i'm not going to fuck and get offended

ok

i'm not gonna get offended i just i don't care about that shit i don't give a fought

i literally don't care

you only if you start talking weird i'm going to give you that weird eye right

you start talking about pedal shit

i'm i'm going to see you as a weirdo right you're a freak right so there's things that's going to make me think you're a weirdo

but

if you're just a normal person it's just about what's normal what's not normal right

if you have backward views on feminism

whatever the fuck i literally don't give a fuck i will not

get mad at you

i just don't

i don't care

well i'm twitchll you know we can't tolerate it but

i'm saying in person i just don't give a fon

i need to order food

m

and i don't know what to order like i don't want this greasy as fucking lebanese garlic food

nothing against lebanese people

even though i'm lebanese i'm not allowed to be racist against lebanese people whatever

really all i had

it's the best thing about being in lebanony i'm just gkidding its all joke

but

buth what the fuck am i going to order to eat

ah fuck me man i'm so tired i'm so tired i'm so tired

im w going to keep streaming i going to keep screaming i just

i gott to eat some food man i gott to eat some food i want some simple food

i just want some simple food i don't want this complicated

what is this man

chees thake

no these are hot dogs i don't want that shit

are fucking hot dogs

you know what

i m to git myself a good hold

you know what i think

you know what i think this might do it

i think this might do it

you know

tw of these

then

yeah

you know what

this might just do it

hol on hold on hold on on

mis sec me sec mem secd

pt belly i might get some port belly

that's right

oh beilly what is this mediterranean i don't trust that

part beilly

pop belly

art bellt

oh i'm going to get that oreo cookie shaye

oh but you thought i was eating healthy now didn't you

now didn't you

you thought i was eating healthy now didn't you

i'm a get that oreo shake oh i'm a get those brownies i'm just kidding i'm not getting any of that shit

i'm literally not getting any mesans

don't worry

it actually sounds disgusting right now

it actually sounds disgusting

he'll eat that right now

he there's someone else who wanted to debate me who wanted to debate me

we wanted to falking debate me

is he in fucking showk let's see

where's he at

areas trash

what is the issue

hollly shit is it

were here

we're here what's the issue

ok you want what you want the rundown of why chas fucking insanely angry or something

yeah what do you want to debate about

i didn't even want to debate but then they said fook it and then they were just like

i said communism

disregards the advent of

human nature right

and then old chat goes crazy and then i said fuck it

as a good folk in the pair thingo folk in share we need

forking horse to go i first of all where did you come from

what do you mean i've followed like you and fuck and zirco for like a n here's

not ago

i wouldn't say that no

all right well what you don't like czerca

i like zirco

but i wouldn't say i'm a fucking zarca guy but that's where you came from

okay fuckin there you got me b

all right

so

so what would you have to say to that when someone says

communism

disregards

human nature to be selfish and greedy

um

i would say that it's not relevant

like

what do you mean it's not relevant

it's not relevant at all

it's not it's really not oh is that not relevant of course that's fucky because ty to do something practically not on fucking paper like what i because because i don't know because we s how are you not good at how are you already like not haveing

argument against us is what you fucking do

ok you're a little nervous and i'm being very beca i'm being calm with you ok can you ok sorry sorry sorry but that's like obsay in saying to me that like you don'tre actually i'll explain it to you

o because this idea that communism relies on the good graces of people is wrong it's not true

hows ok fair

oh i' actually be receptive to your ideas

so

let me tell you in a civilized society

i'm talking about a society with culture

forget about communism just a society with culture

yeah

people

may have greed and selfishness

and vices whatever

but she still haven't a culture of honor

where

that's looked down upon badly

when i says when i talking abou

selfishness

can we can we clarify something before etn your

because you're talking about culture

and like what are you looking for

a society to provide

their population

what do you mean

like what would thisj fine like

society's success because you'rescribing culture and shit like i would define society success as its ability

to

provide the foundation for human beings to do what human beings are meant to

which is

do youre meant to

a mean you say that a

a start families

and be

by the way

pursued the are creative

and uh

unleash their inner inner potentials

you think communism is the best way for people to

or release their creative potential

absolutely

ok why is that

you think kidding

okay

i guess

let me get a better sense because i don't want to just relate to like what i know about the um

like the us sr and like hidding quotas i'm sure you have a different view of

communism than that

if you i specially if you think that communism

is a good way to achieve that

ah

to achieve that right

so what is your view

of like a modern

communist

a society that would be

that would be like good

di know

really

yup

you think that they are

communists you think they follow communists ideals

absolutely

what do you think has gotten china to the point where

they are

even like rels

is it not there

capitalistic tendencies

no

no

no

it's communism i feel like you're just completely like ignorant of like

or like i don't even think you're ignorant i think you're just omitting just to like

omitting shit and just fucking like around just to like appeal to your chid at this point like if you're going to say that

china didn't you're asking me questions i'm answering and seas to achieve the prosperity that it has now

that is like a complete that's just wrong like you that's like a erroneus what capitalist tendencies did they adopt

anything

i'm asking you

oh fuck i needed you my bdy

what capitalist tendencies did they adopt

a they created exclusionary zones that opened up free trade

and those i wait a second

what is free trade

free trade

yeah i

i don't think that's the word they used in china

so i allowed for more trade and more

foreign investment i agree with that they did a lot more trade that not a capitalistic tendency

rather than a comtist anddency nope

i really actually feel like like

and this waste my time

you think trade

has um

existed before capitalism

obviously

yes

i think the interchange of goods between societies has existed before capitalism

yes

so why does trade made

china adopt capitalism

i don't say

trade in that aspect

i meant

actually that's kind of a

trust

but of course like

communist societies are more closed off

and how they view the production of goods

then i

than capitalism china' is even more closed off than it was before

you think that

in terms of the strictness that they have on

making sure their economy is under control yeah they control their economy way more than before

you mean you think that they control their economy way more so are you saying oes didn't exist

that

i had different rules and operated no they china they created yeah wait

do you think that these zones in like the one nine hundred and seventy s early late sixties around the

where

created

that had different

use are different policies

that allowed china to become prosperous today

do you think that that is

an accurate depiction of what has led to their current

sense

ah yeah recently yeah

ok

and do you think that those policies adopted in those areas

work

more capitalistic

then

the rest of china at that time

no

no

no

explain the difference the that

or how they were not capitalist

sure so what you're talking about in terms of

a foreign investment

was foreign investment in chinese companies

chinese

enterprise is right

those enterprises were tightly controlled by the state in terms of what they were capable of doing what they sold and what they didn't sell

cetera et cetera

um

so yeah there was a market and there was trade but

it's a trade that deepened the party's control of the economy than had it had before so before

who had a national industrial system

i i don't think how can you

deep in control when there's foreign investment involved

how does that mean more control that just means you have it because there's more to control yes but you also have you because you have a you have a better because you have a better grasp

on

how the economy works

how to regulate it

how to derive the necessary inputs to produce the outputs

of control

so

you really can't right now i'm sorry it's just talk to me

yeah

so

they deepen control you know it's not just that there's more to control

but the scale scope and severity of control increases

that

sorry sorry

sor

could you say that one more time

yeah

the scale scope and severity of the control increases

by virtue of there being more to control

yeah but

the that there's more to control means there's more to use to fulfill the actual general outcomes of the party right

the party has a goal

and it reaches that goal with better efficiency and with more control

then it did under the the

soviet sovit st i feel like yeah i can agree that they still have like a very heavy control on

so the soviet

system can i cakind of finish something please go ahead finish

i agree that they do have more control on

they still have a lot of control over the

there are businesses in there

thans

does that operate within china obviously

but

i'm saying what do you think le

to that prosperity

those

the policies that led

to the prosperity and that created the more that

could be controlled

do you know it has to do with or thog that has that's undeniably

capitalistic properties

it has to do with the

yeah it has to do with argument

no it has to do with a different way that china started to

handle the surpluses of production so china had a

national industrial system

where there was a dual system right there was a

a type of money that

the state

used to buy uh grain

from communes

the communes had internal quotas right

and these quotas

were not actually dictated by the central state there was the people's communes who was actually more decentralized in the soviet system

so they would get quarters of grain

right

and thiss the baseline the very baseline quart of grain right to reproduce the commune all the needs right

then

there's surpluses right

so what you can do with the surpluses

you had these small go you're explaining the neolithic revolution

now

but okay well i'll just explain it like this

what happened with the reform and opening up wasn't just that foreign investment was allowed that's a very before then right

what you had was a difference in how the communist party started to deal with the surplus right

so these surpluses of production were allowed

to on

to be used at the local the most local local small level of the small family owned

lots of land

the party would basically basically the local level here ask for a certain quart of grain right and then with those surpluses

they gave people a higher degree of freedom

with which to use and purchase and buy

by themselves

ah therere surpluses of grain

so they've en acted like the trade of

the surplus

grain is that what you're saying

well it's all about the surplus right

is all about the that's how it all began it's all there's always a surplus of grain right a both soviet union and china

to what china started to do

was

allow more freedom

in how the surpluses were used

but paradoxk it wasn't really

freedom

because

it was based on

the expectation that the surpluses are going to be used

um

to buy capital

right

and advance the forces of production which it did

so it was the party's goal to industrialize

right

through local surpluses

ok

so they industrialized uh

ok

but they laid the foundation for internal industrialization and then only after that

did they have

what's up carter

only after that did they have a

did they have a

the ability for foreign investments we even invest in anything

so you're arguing that communism is a valid

like like strategy because it

produce i enough

grain to

then receive foreign investment

i know ya but

also wow so on the one hand capitalism could just never do that produce a surplus of grain weow

it

it couldn't

literally

no

it could how it's communis how could capitalism in the one nine hundred seventy s

not produce a surplus of grain

yah

under a fucking incredibly fertile and

prosperous land

because i'll explain it to you because in countries like china and russia

you have

what they call backward economies right so this is

economies where most people

most farmers the type of grain that they're producing

is

for their own consumption

right

and then surplcees

are used to just buy more land

so

never does it take the form of a general

bke

profit

where you just buying machines and you're buying

it's just

stagnation forever right

so

m

under capitalism

that didn't change

because

while there's a minority of cities that you know they're undergoing some

capitalists

then what spurred marketing on revolution

and america's in great britain

actually it capital it actually began which and agrarian yeah yeahs tue yeah it actually began you

it actually began from like a very local

a small place and then

through the wealth produced from that small place through banks and

oh yeah that sounds like somewhere like these exclusionary zones in china no no what i'm trying i'm trying to tell you is that

what we're talking about is countries that are not under the influence of european colonial powers

because if you're under the influence of america right

oka

you can have excesses and surpluses of wealth

that are used to invest in other countries

ok but the problem is that when it came to countries like russia and china

mhm

those investments could not be paid off

they would soon for example during the russian empire france would loaner france long and i'm trying to actually understand like the contt like you like france france would loan a lot of money to russia

and it would all just be debt because russia can't pay off the loans right because the loans are not being used to

produce productive capital

a the reason you're up

specifically

had an impetus for the industrial revolution is cause

europe had these profound internal revolutions

right

peasant uprisings in the protestant reformation

which led to forms of primitive comm accumulation within europe

right

and then from there

this is coupled with the discovery of the new world and the profound wealth

m

and resources

to be found in the new world

and

these surpluses were gradually

surpluses from the new it's all about surplus these gradual gradually these surpluses from the new world

were simulated into this new the

type of economic system that was emerging specifically in places like

england

and northern europe

and uh

netherlands places that actually were

um

affected by the protestant reformation

so

a lot of people seing this that's like the

sixteen hundred

lot of people died because of

before's it's the

fifteen hundreds

okay okay

actually actuallyy the way

i'm not going to t o s do you want me to turn my cam on so you can get your phone no no it's right contenters

oky

the protestant yeah the protestant reformations like

fifteen hundreds yeah

so

the new world's discovered when in ok i'm sorry like you're just like going on this lecture about something that's not really pertinent to the actual like

debate a ight all ok i i'm explaining to you why you know i'm yeah i' all i'm doing is explaining to you why these countries russia and china

that we're left out

i need to learn to summarize things like in actual useful ways because you're kind of just information dumping

just yeah yeah and you're getting of you're getting a free fucking history lesson for free so you should actually sit az down to be grateful little boy

so second of ver for your free fll yes yeah you should you should actually not boring a fuk click i'm sorry then if you're bored then kick rocks

kick rocks yeah

okay

yeah if you're bored kick rs not if i'm bored i just rather prefer like to us steer the conversation and i steer it gohead

what do you want to say

so explain to me

give me an example besides china because we obviously view what happened in china very differently

that

i think that it's because of the capitalistic tendencies

and not the communistic tendencies

that china adopted

and that's what

spurred

they're like a

economic prosperity

that we seen now

but i

pick a place where is an example

where communism has

and your eye's been successful

beside shining

virtually every communist state including china

including china before the reforms

you view that as success

absolutely

would you view north korea because when you actually look at what their goals were which was to have a baseline

primary sphere of

industrial perhabs we shouldn't look at what their goals are and maybe we should look at them in comparison to other ways of

government no you can't you can't do that because different economy you mean you can't do that of course because i'll explain to you why don't worry i'll explain to why i'll explain to why i'll explain to why

because you're saying these things that are so fucking dumb yeah yeah but i'll explain it

so different

countries have different developmental status

and different historical

historical circumstances

so

you can't compare for example

china

in the fifties

to the u s in the fifties it's just not comparable

gam

but in terms of what the communists set about to do

which was create a baseline standard of living in a national industrial and develop the forces of production

i mean

you laugh

but no i'm not i'm sory i just looked at your chid and they're saying like i don't understand

thying like of course yeah i don't think you are because what i'm trying to say is that

these countries before communism

no we're talking about yet before communism these people did not have electricity they didn't have running water

all the things we take for granted in modern economies communist bill ok but i'm foundation entents into capitalism

how do they do that aiding these people and getting them these necessities better than capitalism oh i mean that's actually simple because under capitalism

they were not

getting these necessities at all

you're saying like the people in china aren't getting these newcesss

yes

yeah there were famines as there are always famines in disruptions in the

agricultural production

that happens with modernity that happened in europe too by the way

diamons happened too because of that

even even though they had the new world they still had famines

but no gro

yes uh you i'm but like you could easily like explain away some of those famines by like changes

tempe

bst

like a

i believed what you're going to talk about like

it's because there's ustre's rapid

fast disruptions

in how people feed themselves right ok butou how is communism better equipped to deal with that than capitalism

how is communism better equipped to deal with what

with

bike

rapid changes in

that could disrupt the food supply well in terms of scale the dos it was concentrated in a quicker time period i guess but

it was disastrous yeah but

with capitalism

you have people

entering into like an extreme form of pauperism

and they just there's starvation and it's not really considered a crisis it's just like

a fact of life

right

the fact of life

yeah

mean so do you know about global malnourishment

you know like

that's all considered just like a normal concept of global mol theour yeah around the world like how many people are malnourished how many people a

don't have access to

enough food to keep them alive it's

kind of a lot of people

m

and that's all considered normal

ah that's considered normal

yeah you think that's

are normal

by

society yeah it is it's considered like a natural state of affairs

um i kind of have a different way of thinking about that i think um

a lot of

malnourishment and life

oh

people not getting the food that they need isn't

because of like

just we not being able

enough because that's obviously not true

it's

because of political

ability

and up

do you agree with that

i don't know if i'd say political instability but i would say a lack of development of productive forces

um

very simple

and also

here's another big reason actually

so a lot of subsistence economies

have families that feed themselves right and the there's very much localized food production

okay

the the village is making the food or the families so when you have a crisis

yeah

that's gonna disrupt production

right

it's gonna be a

directly fell to the local level whereas in a modern

economy

food is aggregated

in a some kind of more central way right it' sent

it's commodified or it' sent to the central state whatever

and

when there's disruptions locally it's very easy for people to access food because they're not dependent

on the growing conditions locally

right there's a there's there's like a

you can you can have access to food at the supermarket or you buy it from the store and the store gets it from

whatever so if there's problems locally that happen

you can still have access to food right ok and

the problem

isn't so much

modern industrial capitalism

but the inability for capitalism to industrialize countries outside europe

now the reason

europe was able to industrialize wasn't actually because of capitalism

on

it was because of

a primitive accumulation that was violent

completely has nothing to do with the free market

i

slavery colonialism

i we're i'm not just naming sins like morally i'm telling you

these things

had to happen for

european industrial capitalism toul be possible

and those things did not

result from the free market capitalist system

they resulted from the state

or some kind of entertaining forcefull a lot of the prosperity was propped up before

and then by

the foundation of the prosperity yes

ok i think that that's fair

ya

um

so you say

capitalism

can't industrialize

a smaller country

not smaller no no not smaller countries sorr

countries outside of a

europe or america

outside them and their

investment regimes yet

what which countries have

communism industrialized outside of

oh you want to say china i guess and the u s s r

the uus is our china

i mean europe for the most part but o

it's what

the us is ours in europe for the most part

well it us a r would bbadly be considered

uh outside

r

yeah i guess you wt to say wes

on the ok

fair enough yeh whatever

is most of it was mand in asia

yeah it's in asia for the most part yeah but fucking seventy five more than seventy five percent of the population lives in fucking europe so it's fucking

i don't know about that i don't think seventy five percent lived in europe

lives in europe i'm like pretty sure

like

very

borhion

google

howard

aright

seventy wight

seventy seven percent live in the european part

of the soviet union

oh i don't know this is russian now but i don't know

probably similar

o or if not

better now

worry better

more people well the european part of russia doesn't mean russia is part of europe

oh yeah i know i guess it's

likek

europe is not just like a continent we're talking about cement

yeah

i saw

yeah i mean world was prely socialized

sorry i should not reach out

ya alright

anyway um

what were you asking

which countries outside of europe has communism done a good job

industrializing

side

well

china i guess

which we di

you

do

the soviet union

oh yeah the soviet union

and then how did that work out

why do you think the soviet union failed

that be a good place

sorry

ah more or less because mao was right

uh in the split to the soviet union

uh enlighten me on the

split and are all of that why was ma right what was mau right about

mau thought that soviet marxism lenism was too dogmatic

he critiqued kruschov

for

s

denunciation of stalin

and the significance of that

was

bruschov was refusing to

deepen

the socialistic aspects of soviet the soviet union's economy

and was pursuing a kind of generalized americanization of the economy when the sphere of agriculture specifically

and also um

the sphere of property relations and so on and so on

the soviet union as a result

started to stagnate

the other opportunity for the soviet union i mean this is a general problem right was ma was waging war not just against

the soviet bureaucracy but the chinese bureaucracy that was soviet educated

and nw

undermine the power of that bureaucracy

which was benefiting from the stagnation basically

through the cultural revolution right and the soviet union never had an equivalent of that

so more or less i mean it's there's a lot of other really nuanced complicated things like for example

the way in which maos dialectic allowed

his views on

dialectic i mean

allowed for a better way

dialect

what do you mean by dialect

uh it's

it's

it's it dialect is about contradictions right

so

when it comes to the

doesn't i explain anyth

okay when it comes to for example the

the contradiction between trying to

maintain a bit very big state right

with multiple different nationalities right

so the soviet union

was much more centralized

paradoxi be much more centralized than the

china was when it came to its approach to nationalities

while also being more decentralized it formerly had more republics for each nationality china did not have separate republics

but on the other hand

china allowed more room

for these other nationalities to be

harmoniously integrated within the chinese civilization

soviet union never pursued that

for the russian civilization which was historically multiethnic before peter the greats

westernizing reforms

so

there's multiple ways in which

china

um

dealt with the same contradictions the soviet union was dealing with

better

as a result

h

the unique circumstances of the chinese conditions

russia was still more your european

th china so they were bogged down by a lot of

western prejudices like for example

on the national question that was a big factor in the breakup of the soviet union

when it came to their approach

to the economy the soviet union didn't really disentangle

political liberalization

with

opening up its economy

iight

and china was able to disentangle it

again this is all stemming from

the dispute from the sino soviet split

so

ah

basically the problem the reason the soviet union collapsedre spartans

more or less

m

was because

the uh it

it gave rise to a stagnant bureaucracy

that wasn't able to be overthrown

now

the chinese did like spread pamphlets throughout russia's

eastern regions

a

and did influence people right

but

it ultimately wasn't enough

right the soviet union um

so

okay sorry you talk about the sino soviet

yeat

well i'll explain it like this i explain like this right but so you know i just ask you a question so i can actually go get

s

some

so you talk about the sino soviet

split

why do you so that was

russiare trending

more

democratic and more european in their values right

not democratic but

i would say more european yes

ok

and then uh china wanting to

tak more

with their communism

groups or whatever

yeah i mean that's fair character that's vaguely

i'll go

so why do you think russia began to trend more

in that direction of

des stall and is

uh

that's so it actually stemmed from a problem from the very beginning

so mao actually critiqued

stalin himself

even though the problem was that khjov

uh denounce stalin

mao critiqued stalin because stalin did not trust the peasants in maos words right

so an independent foundation

with which

to

rein in the soviet bureaucracy and challenge the soviet bureaucracy the urbanized one i mean

right that was ruling over the peasants

stalin was never able to establish that

so after stalin's death this same urban bureaucracy that was ruling over the majority of the

population

peasantry specifically

decided to save their own skin

right

as they were facing another purge under stalin

and basically institute this kind of coup in the u s sr

two

reserve there

statist preserve their existence

um

and

that's pretty much why and then mao was

really

that's why there was a syo soviet split because mao was challenging that because he was challenging its chinese

extension which was the chinese bureaucracy which was soviet educated

tied to the soviet ruling class

so

it was like there was this

contradiction within china between mao

and the soviet

educated bureaucracy

that translated over into a contradiction with the soviet union itself

okay

you need to like better summarize things like i'm just being like one hundre percent on

but because like you can like say that and like i feel like like three sentences

but im

i guess i just want to like engage like more on like actual like not like just history

information dump

like a

what do you think that

ina could do

or not china the u s s r could have

done better or la

ah

a way that they

didn't do communism well

that makes sense

yeah so there's a few problems

they did do communism well

it's just that

there came a time

after they created that primary sphere of industrial production

where the economy entered into a new phase which was based on the production of light goods consumer goods right

and

that is why the soviet economy started to stagnate because

you only need

so much steel

right eventually when you build up the solid foundation of a modern economy

the question is ok how are we going to start producing light goods for people to consume that not because they need it but because they want

right okay so so therere there was a new

cultural and spiritual need

of the soviet population

it wasn't being satisfied by the

by the state well their fundamental primary needs were already satisfied

a but there's cultural

spiritual needs were not being satisfied right

so

that was an issue right and

the soviet union what le you think that the government should play a role in defining

cultural

spiritu

and what how strong in a sense yes in the sense that i'm talking about yes because a government should be able to

recognize

ah

if it's maintaining such a firm grip

control over the economy

that

it needs to give more room for the people to give expression to their their own character their own longings and their own needs

in a way that's not

not necessarily within that control

so yes

a

now what i'm trying to say though is that the

so ok can i get to something that's kind of more like

the development of like high skilled

high expertise

like labor and like development of like

oh

let's say higher technology like

equipment or whatever you know i'm saying like

semiconductors

solar panels shit like that right

ya um

why do you think that capitalism has done such

a better job of

creating those

breakthroughs in science

innovation

and the manufacturing development of those

has been primarily in

more

so we should probably confine this to

the pre coarty

reform an opening up period because

um

in terms of china which

uh we already disagree

yeah that's why i'm saying just so we don't have to deal with that disagreement let's just focus on the question

why vaguely was capitalism better at innovation

is what you're asking

yeah

basically

firstly it's ambiguous whether or not that's true

a capitalism biguous

no it's ambiguous because capitalism was better

at

giving

the population access to light consumer goods which was the fruits of the technology

but in terms of actually produc i like consumer goods like you know

like t v s and phones and kitchen stoves and shit like that

right

but in terms of the fundamental technology behind it when it came to like broad industrial and military application and space programs

oh yeah that's fair i guess you could say yeah the the u s issar um really i think out outpaced

the capitalist countries in many regards

but to answer your question

broadly right

ok um

d

catching up the soviet union had to so by the time the soviet union was founded there was a world capitalist market right

and in a world capitalist market

there's countries that have already produced a lot of wealth

and they've industrialized themselves

and the way they helped each other out

and there was rifts between them and competition but

it was principally through banks which would use these surpluses of wealth

to invest in other countries' development

thank

and it's so it's countries that start off from an unequal place that can take advantage

of another country's

better place

ah

by

getting loans because that country can afford you know it's like if you climb yourself out of a

um

let's say the

cliff and it was really hard

you can lay out a hand right and it's easier for the the next person to come back up right so that's what we're dealing with it's differentials in the concentration of capital right

differences in the concentration of capital

right but this was plagued and this is an aspect

that people who just want to have simplistic comparisons beteen capitalism and communism overlook

between of political contradictions between the european powers

so for example

these investments were not done purely based on the profit motives

they were also based on the strategic and geopolitical interests of competing states

right

and these states eventually realized it's not in their interests

to allow for the industrial development of rival competing states

so what they would do was issue loans

a without actually

attending to the

the industrial development of countries through building infrastructure right

so in this way industrialization became

hampered in spheres outside of the exclusive control of european

monopoly

capitalist countries

so

bike

okay

skipping a lot the whole point is

there was a world capitalist system and a world capitalist market already

but the u s s r couldn't take advantage of all of the wealth and resources

that were circulating within that and which were produced by that

so it had to create its own alternative socialist world economy and world market

which was beginning from

i much

ah more backward

starting place right ok in europe was so it was it's tougher to get itself out of that that ditch right

and also

the socialist world was much less

rich in resources

and even trade relations then the soviet world is much less rich

yeah the soviet union the soviet bloc and the the soviet union the soviet bloc and soviet aligned countries

um

we're not as a

n not we're not we're not full because they weren't able to fully participate on the world capitalist market

um

between themselves

between themselves they like were not

it just wasn't enough

basicy

i mean china was excluded from it because of the sinno soviet split

which is a very important

very important thing to understand inve me a second

all right

fuck in the i'll talk the fuck

t what's that

jot

fox

a lot of fucking talk

around

very now

go ahead a that

a falxroy

ah i was going to ask something

ok

i'm honestly like i'll be honest some guy

board

so

i want to just get

thether should i

talk about

as for more free

so

obviously the state is going to have a much more

well over the resources

and i

infinite power corrupt

definitely

as some fok

that

i

so

why do you think that

corruption is not an issue

in a

tommy

should it be

isn't shouldnt be factored into the equation

corruption is an issue

oh that

it was an issue

i mean it was

it was yeah and then i when i asked you about that initially you said that's a non fact

you know

but the difference is that where corrupt corruption is found

it's rooted out and ostracized right

but in capitalism

corruption is

um

is

ah

' is done out in the open

right and it's fully considered acceptable and normal

so i think that's a big difference

really

yeah so yeah it's basically it's better that it's just done behind the shadows right n

it doesn't matter if it's just no one

sees it or talk cares about it ever

then that's realdly so much better

well it's more widespread

you think it's more widespread mayb maybe it's more widespread because the amount of wealth is more widespread put it this way

if a corrupt communist official

is hoarding resources for himself personally to use

okay

it's bad

right

but in capitalism

people hoarding wealth to themselves is already the norm so it's not even considered corruption

um

i wouldn't say that necessarily now

i think people

knowing about their corruption at least

maybe spur some change down the line it seems like people not knowing at all just means they're going to be oblivious of the problem

i

well then i encourage you to go to wall street and tell all those people

that

they should i'm not saying that america doesn't grow up this fog like that's obvious

i'm just saying that it's going to be more detrimental

to the people at large if

the amount of wealth is concentrated

and then there's falking corruption in that

people controlling that amount of wealth

is that not obvious

no

ok

ok well i don't know i'll just send it there

thanks for the history less

wew

you gave me a lot of interesting ideas to engage

ok y bing else

anything else

i know you do

goodjob

now you're good

yup

okay

that was something i guess

fucking there you go chat you didn't get a fucking has yelling

no

i would have

but i too tired

tired

i do like appreciate you though i think you're folking entertaining

for the most part

youh

no problem

agree with you of

to keep up your grind b i se you're getting yourselbs back

ight

back up

all right

ller

right amund

you know it's crazy

this is usually when i start the scream

it's even thoug i haven't slept in forty eight hours

it's so much better

when we start out early like at eleven

isn't it it's so much better

all right we can play g t a

unless we have more debates

so i do not have the energy

to cover news today

i just don't

so i'm either going to react or play gta

what

i caughterr givenv c

but

i need a fucking server to go to

i need an actual serve ok we'll keep we'll get more debate storing

hello

hey i just want

i was going to say hi you ready i'm ready for the best debate you've ever had are you ready

allright

ok

i'm actually curious because the i have i just w shame think you'r funny is fun

when you say communism do you mean it in the sense of like western communism or do you mean it in the literal sense

because i'm a communist too i'm just wondering

immediate in marks the sense

ok

the i'm just checking because like i notice like a lot of people on twitch expressionly like to say that but they mean it in like a western sense which is like two different ways right western communism would be like

i think about it from like linguistics right someone is going b a communism is authoritarianism and or whatever

yeah like what

it depends you know who you are

i was just curious i wasn't really actually going to debate you

i just find that conversation interesting

also i find it funny how that guy didn't realize that

the ususr fel is a direct result of

capitalist burning fields and

trying to burn down

the us sient destroy communism

yeah

i

listen most you i know a lot of you i've seen you in other communities i stream before

haz oh guys he's cool he's cool he's actually cool

i'm just being funny

yeah

i met him in l a

person do

yeah you met you met up with the i actually were there we were going to meet up with you the next day but we flew out

yeah yeah i know

yeah i was on the next next

yeah

a

here's one thing though

i did see your tweet about patriotic whre was it

patriotic socialism ok you have to explain this toight this is actually something i was curious about

i

so

there's this new thing it's called patriotic solcis we didn't invent the term but they did

oky but

what we're basically saying is that

socialism needs a context right

we can't just we can't just like build chaz

and call that socials

yeah so

the context for socialism is going to be the country you live in

b

and with that comes

basically

a view that

like you know how in china they have socialsm with chinese characteristics

yeah of course yeah modern i mean dr b calls it like modern socialism

yea yeah yeah

it's like that

that applies to every country like it has to be the characteristics of that country and

it's something that's supposed to be a

it's supposed to

the not only like coeist but

be the form of

the sense of love of country and people and community

not not necessarily to the exclusion of others like

hating other people or yeah i am a s yeah yeah

it's like a good form of nationalism essentially like not evil nationalism but national in sense i you have pride of your people your n i don't know if

see nationalism is kind of difficult because

most people think of ethno nationalism right yeah which is terrible right yeah that's i'm using i'm trying to co op yeah yeah

yeah yeah i i like it more in terms of like uh i like patriotism be caause

it's just about love of country right

and

country something that's a little more like a

there's more room the it's not it's not re necessarily a nation because maybe there's multiple nations in a country right but it's just this

sensible homeland right

for sure you have pride it's pride as the reason i don't i don't like that so it's funny i sats like we call it patriotism i feel like patriotism in the western sense and im western sense in the sense of like

linguistically i just read like instantly like militaristic and it just fucked turns me off

yeah the same as with nationalism right nationalism also has a fucking terrible comic connotation surrounding it because i think i think though that's why literature is important though because

like when you start to read

just this broader breadth of how the words used historically right i don't now yeah i could see how that's justified now right

but

also there's a diversity of how it is like

there's also like that fucking movie with mel gibson what is it fuccing call

the last

what is it called is like the last

truce gone what is it brave art yeah brave hearty like that's that's a big way people think of patriotism today it's that movie right

but also you know historically it's just like

just as fundamental love and loyalty to country

not necessarily or even primarily in the form of love of the institution

mean even the founding of america right it's like the ruling institution was the british right

so to be a patriot didn't mean you just

agreed with whoever's in the military that's in power it means

you have a more a deeper sense of like love and connection to

your land your homeland right

yeah igree i think this exist i think that's one of the reasons latin america is so socialistic right is yeah like jose marty wrote

about how that's a good example

yeah yeah latin america is very prideful of their land and not the state right yeah and there people

yeah like i think so for us patriotic socialists like

to be a patriot means

to oppose our government it means to oppose what our military is doing and oppose u s imperialism

because

but the way we see it uus imperialism

and the military industrial complex

m

comes at the expense of the people at home right like the people at it it's two things right

divergs resources away from

you know building hospitals and schools

and health care and things like that for the people at home

for military spending that doesn't even benefit the people but moreover

it's intertwined with the same structures

that oppress the working class at home

sure and align with the ruling class so it's like

it was

patriotism is

real patriotism nancy imperialist and

like the bush era of patriotism and the patriotism of life

ah

the military is like a fake one

it's like a pretend they're trying to appeal to our

very human and natural

instincts

i don't want to like say that in a such a loaded way but just you know our very human

yeah intuitive sense of having a love for our homeland and people

and it's like they prey on us

to get behind agendas that actually contradict that

you know

yeah someone said patriotism has been co opted yeah i mean i talk about that all the time i mean i have a degree in linguistics right so that's like

my biggest thing is like

i try to pick the words that would most

accurately describe what's going on because i do find a lot of words

to put

you know they'd like have a bad taste in your mouth like for example

and dr barry you or richard wolf like they're pretty well richard wolf not so much but dr barry is like i'm a communist right

i like

like i guess i am too but

i feel like if you say that you immediately shun away people who might be looking to like join your cause right because like me and you probably politically aligned on like ninety five percent of things right yeah

but

but those people that don't right that just are

in name right i feel like we scare them away

but i thought that's what i was wondering about the ti t patriotic socialism or whatever you know

no i understand that but

from my experience

i kind of

have this intuition right

it's worked so far

but i remember when socialism was a bad word too righte

and

the way bernie in two thousand and sixteen just owned that and just said you know i'm a democratic socialist or i'm a socialist

i feel like it made people trust him more

a lot ofnow i one hundred percent yeah a lot of the people who were right wing or were going to vote for trump

you know they were have they went for bernie because

and like the socialism thing i think it even helped m because

they were like ok

he's calling himself a socialist but he's also changing

ore preconceptions about what that word means right exactly that i mean i think socialis you have that like term to use even if i'm like a con well see like but a socialist is going to like i have an inkling

that

we can revive the word communism in the same way

right yeah i hope so i hope so i like i definitely hope so i just like i think the more honest we are

with

an the right wing

he is has a lot of

anti communist rhetoric

and just in the sense that yh the word is a boogeman

because the people who talk whatout communism the most it comes from the right wing right

but if you openly embrace that word

while also

not alienating

those the people that the right wing praise on right which is ordinary working class people

i think you can have you can deepen that burnie effect

in a better way because i think we've reached kind of limitations of socialism

you know like

he lost the

the primary

and

i don't know i i think

i personally look to another way forward

maybe it's not the only way but it's just the path

we've been pursuing heyears a

trying to reform the communist party

bring that thing that's why

i wish i mean that's the dream right but i yeah i was just curious be caause patriotic socialism was like h to me and the instantly i was like ah fuck like

this is going to go over well you know

but i get it yeah it's mainly just the words someone said you don't care about optics listen optics is everything when you're trying to grow a movement right people don't just follow ideas because of the name the

like

optics is what gets people into the movement

yeah

so that's all that's all is trying to make a point but i just want to talk to you as i never talked to you so i was like today's the day

yeah for sure i mean it's good talking like

yeah also if you're up in the morning now if you switch to morning streams i'm always around so i'll come through morell you know come over after i'm done streaming oh for sure yeah that be cool yeh i go to bed

yeah

ah

soon you know i mean actually i don't know

i' have i'm waiting till like ten pm or something or

one am

uh and then like i good

reset my sleep schedule basically

are you still in l a

no no i'm in

i'm back in michigan

ok well next time we do l a trip maybe we'll meet up we're going to do l a again in a few weeks or months

i guess oh really wow yeah a few people i think said they might come here

for frogan

yeah maybe yre

yeah but i don't know michigan's like a

old

place so

carter your viewers hate pat socks and that my viewers are like

just

my views are fine they're not listen listen you guys don't understand these are not thisnys people these are normal people

whatter

chat my chat is literally all marxist leninist my entire chat

they fucking punk on me for not being left enough when i go hey

you know we should have more allies and they tell me i'm the least left

these are cool people trust me

like my chats parent they're rightfully paranoid right because like

outsiders that you do debate shit i don't do that yeah that's that's why i'm saying these are cool people because

honestly everyone in the debates fear fucking soucks right

bike

it's

yeah i only the only thing i'll do is dylan burns is panel once every so often just that dip my toes in

yeah

but

yeah that

like

debate is like the destiny you i don't hate i'm not doing this to hate on destiny by the way

i could but like i don't care about m enough to i'm just saying like

the orbiters

for destiny oh yeah

course it's just i think any community you know

i just think the whole the

it's funny because i think that a

a lot of those like

i don't i usually stray away from the term i think the term orbiter is so dumb just because you have similar content to someone you're going to share

with the biggest member of that right like

for example because i don't know if you get this but i'm a leectist so i get people

all the time a're going oh you're either insert leftist hassan usually right

you are a hassan orbiter or whatever it's like no dude i'm just not a dumb ass like i'm not going to stream at the same time

right i'm also just a leftist

i don't agree with everything this person says

and yeah oka i'm friends with like

we have mutual friends and stuff but the'd like

just because you know someone does not instantly assume that but

with that side of twisch the one you're talking about

yeah those people like they are the devil scream is about that person yeah you know that's exactly what i've been saying

yeah or drama surrounding that person and i'm like

ok like

like like a ok in personal relationships right

i don't do drama on my stream that's one thing i swater you got it's like

maybe if they did it once but it's like this never ending thing where they keep talk it's like what does this even have to do with politics anymore you know

yeah that i will never do a drama stream and i also like i will never like debate other streamers i' have no problem like bringing

like unless it's like someone who i respect and have like fun like i would like debate you if like we disagreed on an idea of yeah as you know the reason i respectd the reason i respect some of the people who don't do debates

it's because those people tend to actually have

like

normal content like they can actually be normal people

debates people are can usually can't be normal

so they just they just

they just debate that's all they do and they just get they can't produce anything like tasteful

or relatable beyond that

right yeah

i think there's two types of people right i think there's like content like um like the big content i think is okay to an extent

but i think being an educator like

is almost more important like that guy was the last guy i just talked to was melting my brain because it's like

you just don't understand what he's saying that doesn't invalidate the argument right like

that's not you fll ninety ninety percent of my debates that's jim being generous that's when they're not the blod yelling and shit

that's literally all it is is like i'm playing the role of like an educator and i'm just like sharing

knowledge yeah of course and ideah i use so like i educate because i'm doing it from like a literature standpoint or from like history because i love

american history and i love latin american history

so i'll use that to like be my educator and try to paint things through the lens of that

and uh i would rather do that than like sit here and like try to dunk on some

buck in the randall that just

you know or some conservative streamer that showed up and was like

a man communism yeah that's bad

yeah i mean

i really don't mind those people because when i actually talk to them it's like ninety nine percent of the time

you know

it's just based on misunderstanding you know exactly yeah i mean that's what that's why like i mean other streamers not

like random chatters i have yeah yeahyah

yeah

i love like having random chatters jump in my discord because ninety percent of time they're you know worker they're literally people who are in my class you know working class

that

just don't understand and they're misguiding their hatred like their hatred is for

you know

some

the brown people or some shit and you're like bro like

why don't you hate capitalism like the reason you're in the position you're in is because we have a system that rewards deckads like amazon and you know whatever

yeah

yeah definitely

i mean what

yea at the end of the day it's like

i think

one of the i've never been able to realize this goal just because like i'm in such a fucking toxic environment

which i'm not going to deny at leas

it's made me a toxic person

f

it it's be so nice that people could just interact as human beings again you know

but

it's like it's the internet you know

n know it's fun i listen i think i think you do it a good service because i laugh at your stream

i lurk in you stream i i've said things like five times it's fucking hilarious i'm like

i find it funny because you're very passionate and i know some things you just say because like

it's not that i don't think you believe in it but you're like driving home a point right yeah ad like driv home

most

most of it

is a

most of it's honestly just like

mm

temperament

like

it's not necessarily because it's the end of the world it's just like i just get pissed easily you know

but it's not the end of the world it's that's just my temperament

yeah i think it's funny

clear the toxicity so that i don't think that's impossible and any of your political ontu you're fuck

like good luck

yeah

eah like even even me who avoids drama and everything like i get fucked every day by like randos or like random communities deciding that

i'm some dumb ass socialist

that

doesn't know what's good for me

ive

i've honestly been trying to

do more normy shit like i'm going to start doing g t a r p and stuff

with like a political twist obviously but

that's what blew my channel up

oh really

yeah i was on no pixel yeah i poll y character

i don't think i can get on that one because that one's like super exclusive right

yeah i mean it's just really hard right now unless you're like like i don't have any poll and i got in because i'm good friends with like some of the like bigger people on it and like they became my friends during covid and so

you know likee good all i'm just looking for like any r p i don't have to get on no pixel do you know like

by comm

what are some server streamers use as an alternative to that

i would just literally go to the g t a category and see i find anybody who's not on no pixel i have no idea the only one i ever play on is played on is no pixel

nice yeah

so i think no can get in

no pixel has like a lot of rules to write which

might be the rules

yeah the rules are great on no pixel until they're used in a way which is like someone bends them just because they don't like you right yeah

so and that happens like listen people do things like that because that's

how people are

yeah i think you could get on the pixel you just have to apply and write it and it wouldn't be hard and also like you could play like a communist character and it would be fucking hilarious

yeah

or like you could play like you know like a literal like

someone who like idolizes maoor like stys yeah what what i'm doing is i'm going to be playing like a larp

like a i'm like a jason on ruje type like

you know those like gonzale people like st and red guards like that's what i'm aiming for

yeah i played a mormon character who like loved donald trump and like treated mormonism like it was a political ideology and that was my there's actually i'm like schizophrenia so i have like a million characters that i could think of to do

yeah you would have fun the g t a pre is so much fun yeah i think you'll enjoy it

yeah honestly um

i st i tried last night to do it but like it wasn't an r p server but i was still doing it and i was still having a lot of fun

yeah i i'll let you know i'll d m you if i like know of any servers or fel like i know a way for no pixe so what i would do is just go to the no pixel website and apply and like they'll probably

they haeh yeah actually i know i'm going to i'm going to do that now because i never thought

i always thought you had you could only get in through on

recommendation

they if it's closed right now i would

that's weird i'll ask i'm in there like thisscord i don't anyonally don't know like i've never tried to

look at it

yeah i don't know if it's only recommendations right now but i will look i'm in like the strit the discord for it

and i can ask and see if they're only doing

it that way or whatever' is going on through it

yeah cool

yeah honestly n no no pixels obvious the ideal but i can do other stuff

yeah

all right well you have a good night get some sleep

yup see later minut

have a god

i

alright guys i'm ona

throw this away

what's my name

i still don't know if i'm going to the gym tonight

is it dangerous to lift with no sleep

ah

is is it

will get better no it's i actually can live the same sleep deprived

believe it or not

i'f not better because when i'm well rested i think too much and overthinking

makes it worse

believe it or not

i re walking

two streams in a row

the are seven hours

two in a row

holy fath

think i just need like vitamin c some shit

but m

i do want to play some rp

r p

buckan elden ring is coming out re're doing a lot of gaming guys

it referenced to me multiple times whates this shop

bni

what

and when you say you're really big are you like hoys big like

you know five six five seven i'm ma no i'm currently on ax pony

m

i don't care man i don't do a what

that was it

it's got a dem

which

ah

ah

trying to think do i have anything else to do before

you think kntbot is joking

guy's compot hates discourse he hates this forurse

you've gotta leave him alone because

n don't impose discourse on him you know he's like a very independent guy

we deal with discourse we have to i'm a fucking streamer right i have to do that shit

but he's completely outside of that he doesn't care about this horse all he cares about is like

researching

real stuff right like he's focused on that and i've been there too for many years so i respect

no

so don't be imposing this worse on us

he's not parts he doesn't

he's not participating in that bull

don't don't interpret him as taking a side on the discourse i'm telling you he's not that type of person

you know there's there's some people who are defined

by

thisscurse and there's some people that have their own research that

don't give a and i was i'm actually one of those people my discourse is faik

ok

i don't care about this course it's all fake to me right

am

i do have my views

right

is the only difference between me and conbots

in the main is that

i think this course

is real

right there somehow have to participate in that

but

so it's real in that regard but

like

i don't know

it's a different approach you know it's a differen

they're talking about me in chuds co call i don't give a fuckman

iss far as i'm concerned i got what i wanted i'm by that that that shit

better go viral right

that speech i gave better go viral they're talking mad shit ok let's see the mad shit they're talk

but uh the the bits that i saw

damn i wasill literally charmhole is there how much shit could they be talking when

fuck and chohn ho was there

might have to be said which is a

i've never seen a more thorough ofvisceration in my life than this debate you know has obliterated chud logic

so look lost and bewildered by the are going a great cass

hasro me infrared continues to show a superior understanding of the fundamental essence of humanity and demonstrating the correctness of his ideals

possly believe thesy to overcome the anglo manas

the greatest of thinkers and philosophers

of our day and past i salute

pe

and inference

the charm hall where did you meet her

where did where did you meet her

o

the bike

i but i had my friend make it my

yeah

that sounds about right to me

that char that's charmhole i knew charmho was defending us ok

i knew charm was in there defending a listen guys it's not a problem ok

this is not a crisis if we' got charmhole in there defending us it's not a crisis ok

um is there any s i i can't even i can't even think straight right now right

so what am i going to do

because i think we're going to we're going to shift gears and we're going to do some

we're going to do a little bit of r p

right

let me see if his name rockor them

that that knows about this shit

oh is someone in anyone and s does any of these so cte people want to debate me

iant your requests

russian liberals want to talk ukraine

what up

hello

i just was talking with like a muslim guy in shokyu but like you pulled me here so i

i am a razer

i saw your request and showed you

okay like

oh

do you do you understand like how i'm talk or like it's incomprehensible nonsense

i can comprehendm perfectly

ok like it will be a preparation for lae

later dogging talk at some point like maybe you will have

uh him on the show

perfect

mhm

so i'm actually like a rational liberal and my

well my position is not like super ideological uh i do not as far as liberal but like in russia it basically means like you don't like when government does stuff like you a

slightly out to putum

or like hardcor ande putin

and you

you don't like you really care about gay staff or support it like slightly

and like you want more capitalism and like western style

theocacy russia but like you can get it you can't get it because of like putin

we'll fax you over because he's super smart

and like heavyweight and have like majority of population on his side and like then you

start just to hate like your your own eicity and like this that's how it goes in rush

hmm

so you're a different kind inan this

in a sense like do i hate russians or like am i a liberal of some unorthodox kind

yes

unorthodox

i'm not bibsteran standards i'm unorthodox liberal but

because

i mean t transgender stuff is very is athetic to me and i we can't talk about this yes yes i understand

h

and i'm like you

i think most russians are quite

cynical when it comes to ideology in all like all kinds of idology right now

like communist like

fascists like liberal whatever

you i can give you like my

you on you say like

i think basically you say is just

tries to contain any other country like potential to become

regional hetgemon

two

because like if you are regional hedromon you have free hands to project your power like are you

when you say liberal is a

you

zeranovski

uh i knowh are you trying to mm on me or re like you

you believe he this is a generale you believe zinovski is like autentic guy the actual position politically

no no i don't know i don't know it

what do you think i

well he's rumored to be

oh like andan actual like uld you b guy

like i don't know for a fact but like

probably he was set up by k b just to like

a tour of people away from

out antic communism and like just every time he votes like the same as like putin party

uh and like of course like personally he's he's a good comedian

and sometime here is

just why is the russian guy who tells

like true stuff that no one else

but because he is a joker figure like you just laugh at him and like that's how he operates in russian politics

basically

yea yeah yeah i understand

it

understand that

yeah but but

so what do you want specifically you said you want to debate

hello

i i typed exactly that i want talk about ukraine sure yes i can debate but like i'm not a aggressive i understand we w'll talk about

though ukraine do i have to

to talk you like the history of the staff like for the audience

i think the audience is vaguely familiar right with my don and

i can do it quickly like yes mamydam happened s like before that like if you took

if you look at two thousand and thirteen polls

country is like fifty fifty basically onli pro western pro russian people

le mey be slightly tilted towards the west

slightlyer but like it has

complex regional structure so like even if it's slightly till towards the west

russian russian people rights should still be respected

in my opinion at least

instead we have this like revolution which is supported by the west

was like fucking crazy n notz radicals from western europe

ore western western ukraine

and it scares like shit out of eastern

ukraine people

and people in crimea like they have the most producsion

we get out our military is there

and

it's like some kind of catalyst for crimea i mean

we this the deploy

probably illegally our military on

you can stad at that it to just secure the whole peninsula

op for crimea

but like we didn't actually bullet people into voting for russia they

they were russians

wake

always

we just give them like a message

that

hello guys like if you just want to do it right now like we will protect you and like just go to vote for fucking russia

that's what happened

and then like people in eastern ukraine like also wanted to join russia but like

kremlin wasn't tracer to

accept them

it was like it was a genuine grassroots movement but

it's got complicated like in terms of politics because it is like proper ukraine territory

and

so it wasn't like support for them in credland originally but then like ukrainians decided like why jot why can't we start like an enter terrorist operationtead ukraine and like

bully everyone into like ukrainianism

and then like we open a border with this region and send our like volunteers and like supplies and so on there

and like here we are in this situation where this

region is fucked by the war

because like

were basically a proxy war between united states and russia on this territory

that's my eg

runown of station

yeah

so

so uh yes we

thank

what did you want to talk about

ah

well as a kind of a liberal i wanted like to first of all like

can you look th

tell quickly like your opinion what

what is going on here like

e on like large uh

scale

english i don't think it's ide ideology is important don't get you wrong it's important

but i think ideology is downstream from deeper forces

so

so uh

we have to think in deeper terms than just the ideological terms

but to me i have a broader picture and

i'm a marxist materialist

so

the way i look at it forty percent of europe is getting its gas

from russia

a

what more or less

yet so there are is a unipolar american world order led by

the i am

specific developmental regime specific financial regime

american unipolar he gena in genmany di

that's true russia

oh

europe has become dependent on russian gas because putin has nationalized the gas industry

which has

subordinated the gas industry to russian geopolitical

interests

so russia is becoming independent sovereign

blaared

uh the united states

from a broad perspective

f

sees this as a threat

and so continues to try and expand nato

i th

in russia

does the purpose of nato

not clear after the sole collapse of the soviet union

i mean after the balkan war

becomes clear there a is still a geopolitical conflict

russia

so the source of this conflict i don't know if i can

i could get into it so much but

russia represents an alternative independent polarity and modernity

do't havef you

so it has its own industrial base it has its own independent basis for an economy

right

has not developed this basis it's very underdeveloped

very much in that shape

but it still has this independent basis right

yes momlls

it's like it's can't be self sufficient like even i we even if we're

even if we break tasts with west completely

yes pcisely it's so this has made russia a problem

or the western world order

specifically the sovereign sale of russian gas because

russian gas is sold by

subordinated to geopolitical interest of russia

they will set gas prices

in a way

that will not

aligned with the petro dollar system

the denomination of

ah

the maintenance of the us dollar

amin

right

so there's a big source of

fought deep economic contradiction between russia and the united states in the world

oh you give you give him a basic economic explanation for everything yes

yeah

no because politics is important right but it's a bit of its allays on top of that

yh it comes with the basics

yeah economic basis precisely

so

specifically not

russia

as a result of the may maidan write

not only as a result

but

and basically

economic self interest right

has been

not very interested in seeing ukraine as a part

because of ukraine's anti russian

stances after made m do on

so

russian pipelines currently flow through ukraine

the ere upe

ukraine a substantial portion of its revenues

coming from the russian revenues i sorry the

russian transit fees

not only that

if russian gas stops flowing

it will be no longer economically efficient for ukraine to maintain the pipelines

so ukraine will actually have to decommission the pipelines the country the county the ukraine has failed stal like almostready and now russian guess they are fucked like as as uganda

yeah yeah exact precisely precisely

so

there's two new opportunities that have arisen

right

so ukraine has gas companies

and they want in the european market

your your ukrainian gas companies also

a

north stream two

is agreement you know about between germany and russia which is going to decrease prices of gas for germany

because there's no more transit fees

and also eliminate the pipeline through eliminating ukraine's source of transit

face will make germany less dependent on the usa

si

and make german yes precisely

so it's like there's an alignment of interest between american and ukrainian american states and the ukrainian gas companies

yes ok imeric more allant with like

eastern europe which is anti russian again yeah like germany france

precisely

so yes i'm so smart guy h guy y

so they're trying to provoke a conflict in ukraine

ah

so nord stream two will be cancelled

and there will be justification for sanctioning russia

a setting germany against russia

germany and france against russia through nato because they're still member nato

member states they're going to use nato to force them to go against russia

which will you know increase opportunities for ukrainian gas companies who want into the european market because

when there's an absence of russian gas ukrainian gas companies can then

maybe get the necessary investments for infrastructure

from

european banks maybe

uh to

to transit to

you're a ukrainian guess

also prevent nord stream two from happening

we could potentially lock russia in two

having to use

ukraine's infrastructure so it's like many birds in one stone

this conflict

and but the real i'd say the real in simplification it's nord stream two is the reason for this

you watched to wash stream on the crush and any of the streams

what

wash wash like a ft fat yeahyea he's an idiot he's complete idiot

yeah i've seen his dream he said the he said this is what i think he's saying he said

what's happening is putin is the new hitler and russia

he is the new nazi germany and

they want to invade ukraine

a to spread fascism and stop the democracy

this this is the most insane part like russia's e is like that citadel of like right to wing national stuff when

in reality it's like eastern europe is like hardcore nationalist of course and

and russia like russians are chill with like multi ethnic russia with so that's

something i've emphasized many times in the past is

there oftentimes the ethno nationalists in russia are aligned

with some

the anti putin

right yeah russiano nationalist like a lot a portion of them actually fighting on ukrainian side yeah its the're they're pro western right

because russia is a multi ethnic civilization

and

ethno nationalism will lead to russia less territory morse

conflict and more strife

so and also it's western right ethno nationalism is a western invention

so uh

yeah i mean uh

the comparison to nazi germany

stems from the

i'll tell you what this stems from though because after the election of

why donald trump

wo's a right winger here in the us

there was the hishystera of the russia gaate

right because trump was less hostile to russia

apparently right

and

said there was a conspiracy theory promoted by the

i guess the left here right

just just on the record i'm a little bit drunk but like ot's continue

that's ok that's ok

i am not a muslim surd

it's ok

uh so uh

sometimes i'm not a good muslim either so it's

but

they uh promoted uh

they promoted

ah

the democrats promoted the conspiracy theory that russia is responsible for trump

and trump is the right wing here right so

there's this idea that

russia is the most right wing country ever on earth

far far right and it's behind all of the right wing

in the world and it's complete

the fascism

so that's why wash is saying this because

a the democrat because of the situation here political

i mean on the idolgy level do you have like a

and you like

a deeper explanation

ideologically

i mean do you believe like that it's the gen genuine intention of the united states to spread like liberalism or it's just

wen you call understand the comms of interest

no h liberalism to me

yes

when i say liberalism i'm referring to the offspring of liberalism right

she is the kind of american uni poler

but

true i mean classical liberalism

there is no classical liberal

we don't have civil liberties we don't have free markets we don't have any ofth this stuff

it's just a facade

but the thing that has remained

h from liberalism is um

basically just western universalism

and this is

still

the us promotes a kind of civilizational racism

universalism

but

it's all basically

is a

oh

to protect

financial interests

well

are ruling class

city of london is anglo saxon

financial class and so on

they believe they defend like universal human values when in reality like majic clear

this values are perfectly aligned with like western values and like

uh people in china have like no idea what the universe of human violence

all right and so it's s doesn't civilization all true human universal values just so happen to be western

a small part of the world that speaks for everyone

but

yeah

i mean m

you know when you think of it like this it's not just to maintain power i mean like we're dealing with a cycle of money

we have a financial ruling class that's dealing with a problem of debt

how to avoid deth

how to make sure you stay

profitable

right

they want to stay profitle not just because of greed but because of death

right there's too much debt to account for

to maintain this system

and if you

if you this system collapses they think it'll be chaos right

so they do everything they can to maintain this

system

specifically the breton wood system right the u s created after world war two with the dollar as the

hedge among

so it's this fear of chaos really it's what it's about it's a fear that

his collapses

you have russia emerging china emerging all thisse countries emerging

that's why h says it rushes fascist because for them

fascism just means chaos right

if this american liberal system collapses

it will be the worst worst nightmare ever fascism right nazism

so we have to do everything we can to prevent

that's basically every n non western non liberal project is fascism

thank pcisely

i think wash like generally doesn't have a mental capacity to like press

a process like other cultural

at otherctiviilizational

as of civilisations follows

no bas

no p this is a very common issue among americans

be fair

many americans and yes i have not just like ushs were way to way to easy like

we are in the middle like

crossroads between like china like europe like whatever

i

it's like a basic

basic skill of like a russian person like to

be careable to engage with like a muslim guy a buddhist guy like whatever like

yeah yeah americans h

well i tell you why because americans think we have a neutral culture they think

wll we just represent the truth

all we just neutral cultural

uh no bias no u specific way of life so

everyone likes hamburgers so everyone is the same

right

but you know it's not true

caus i do like hamburgers to ber

and no i like i think i like why am am i a liberal like i like uh twentieth centuries america like a lot like

western music western like old movies like this kind of stuff

ah i don't like kudt america very much like

it's actually like a huge black bill for like liberals of russia

who used to used to believe like in western like h

in partial objective news

uh and like this kind of shit and like now we see what happens with like trump election

what happens with

uh protesters in canada and stuff and they're like what what's the fuck like guys we

we are basically your fifth column in russia and like you don't provide us

's enough material to spread like you water so rushal like ca the fuck you think maybe it's so

maybe it's kind of a dream the twentieth century america

late

the cat

like

ya

it's far away right

so it can be

maintained but

yeah i mean look twentieth century america we had infrastructure

we produced projects we had

national highway systems

things were more clean more pristine more new

and

we had the new deal you know this

but

yeah

it's clear

it's clear a lot of the shining aspects of liberalism was

to compete with communism really and when this communism collapse they don't care anymore

simply like

well my another point will be like

you are kind of a communist guy

ye next

i

yeah

ah

and like me being a russian guy like maybe i am brainwashed by like

you don't like

we putin elite to believe that communism has it own both sides

and like actually we should be just conservative russian patriots no matter what

like specifically about communism like my perception is

likees it

late comunist time seems like

we pretend to work

as the boss pretends to pay

and no no one believes like in ideology anymore like why wother about communism

specifically

to me

i don't there cannot be there was big a

mistakes

to learn from the soviet experience

uh it was very

flaw

experience i mean soviet

the soviet union

it cannot be returned to this old

o

old way of things i completely agree

but

i think

mm

to meet china

as proven

native

there's a still a significance of communist

the

to me if the soviet union went down the path of and it's a simplification but

mayb went down the path of china and maintained the political stability

maybe have a cultural revolution get rid of the bureaucracy

have some new fresh young leaders

and

open up

economically

it would have

would have been better to

so i'm expected to give feedback but like i'm fucking drunk as fuck i don't i was going to b i think i think basically like

i'm not against russian conservativesm

i think

russian conservatism has preserved

many good aspects of soviet communism actually

ah unconsciously

right

and also do you think there is a potential danger like h for

like w for russia to

fall from this equilibrium we have now to like actual like fascism like right winging

in a bad sense

conservatism

a reshion

nationalism like hardcore stuff

what do you mean you mean ethno nationalism because to me basic tomorrow putin goes crazy like actually like decides to invade all our neighbors for fun

because we want to protect russians everywhere

like this kind of stuff

mm

and

i don't see the danger but

me um

the problem is that

ethno nationalism

right

but russian civilizationll awakening

i don't think it's fascious

i don't think it's fascist i think fascism

is

a specific kind of

from

you of lif

a master race and

invade neighbors not to protect

russians but

just because you conquer

the war was own sake and enslave others inferior races and so on

so i don't i don't know if i see this danger but

russia

to me the problem with the soviet union was the name

it's called the soviet union

but what is the what civilization is the soviet union it's a complete artificial

it's like the united states right

but

you have china it's the people's republic of china because in china they acknowledge that they are the chinese civilization

yes there's multi ethnic multinational but it's a chinese civilization

to me

a soviet union never acknowledged

that

it was a russian i

civilization

even it is still still the case like even today like putin is not like

russian nationalist russian ethnic nationalist he still believes in like

we are like russian people in sense of like sat the russian people

yeah that's the good that's the good sense because in the soviet union

there wasn't enough

acknowledgment that the russian civilization is

not just russian ethnicity it's also multi civil multinational right

so that was a unique

soviet civilization i think

all

which was russian civilization basically

ee

i don't think

it's a bad thing

i think just like china

russia should

not

follow the west path

of ethno nationalism but

defend its own civilization

uh actually my biggest problem with likeh communism is like it's early history primarily where like

under lenen

i mean first of all like you

uh i can understand like if they wanted to execute like nicholas in the second

but like they killed also like his children and like his

servis who help the family like who just

were heroic like

saints in like

from the perspective of russian orthodox church

like thacking servants were also executed

and it's like some kind of like crazy malicious

that

in the like in the heart of it

and like

there was like some kind of like

good memories about sovi was union like space like

victory world war two like this kind of stuff

and like also like malitia staff

yeah

it's hard to enjo ale your mind around it when you want to be

patriotic about la good stuff but like you

want to

acknowledge their bad stuff

i think uh

all of this

is

bad stuff

is the

the bad stuff of modernity

in general

madernity in general like

madernity the way it violently tears us from

traditional the

last

right like

it's just this kind of leveling additional plumber

is cold hearted

kind of thun

change of history brutal change right ruthless cold hearted

this happened in europe

happened in china it's happened all over the world

but

because russia it has its own darkness is why it's independent because

if it um

the english right they had their own civil war they had all oliver cromwell right they had the the

lots of violence and cruelty and all this kind of stuff they executed their monarchy their crown

you know chinese with opium and like masturations and india yeah precise go good history education like in russia like one hundred percent yeah

so uh

we this is a common problem of all humanity we have to acknowledge

the problem of modernity

it's not a problem we can knowown

the say it's a bad guy defeate it we have to

ask ourselves deeply

a

why

why this happened

or what it means right

what does modernity mean

mean it's like not a obviously just soviet union it's also like holocaust

preciselyy all kinds of crazy shoot

yeah specifical specifically twentieth century history is like unprecedented by like

voot

the history of the planet standard

in many sense h i mean even today like we have

on the internet

like you go on the dark web and there's

snuff and there's red rooms that you hear about in there's horrible these are all i mean many people like to look at isis and they say isis ah that's just a

ancient islamic whatever you know isis is one hundred percent modern

those guys everything they got it from movies they got it from the internet

they got it from a

they got it from modern culture it's not from the past right so

there's a type of very something wrong with

the modern world basic

something very like es mo modern like radical muslims act like h american protestants in a sense

yeah precisely

yeah

ah yes

we understand

so

to me

communism i've never looked at it in a one sided way i mean

there's i always emphasize lot of ugliness right even if no one is a bad guy and no one is at fault like

he's stall in the bad guy know he was a good guy right but

so many ugly things happen

during his rule

very very ugly things right

i mean he hesitate to admit it publicly but like secretly i think a lot of o our people have like this

self

doubt about our like validity as a people as civilization

like

w

the slays kap staff like

yeah

precise

yeah

h

i think it's good

if it's yourself doubt but

when you rely on another

country's demons it's the problem it's good to have your own demons as i would say

it's bad when the

your demons are the west demons right because

then

you will be

the west will abuse abuse you right because the west has its demons and it just abuses you but

when you have your own demons

you can struggle with yourself but

when the west wants to come fuck with you you say fuck you you know

it

like uh this is how i think of the russian uh

rush in mind right

rushian mind has lot of self doubt and

a

internal problems and

darkness and so on

but

as soon as the outsider comes and tries to lay their finger on

the russian soil

they become a super patriot

right that's very very true like i'm a liberal wh knows like lingguage english language like not i don't speak it like

that

correctly but i can read it

if i can go on reget on like destiny streams so and so on

i am like

i am well aware of the west's existence and its critic culture

but like when i see some like crazy interrusation stuff like i turned immediately almost like hardcore puts in patriot

you cam mot from later

even though like i don't support him intellectually

that's good because

as human beings right

we should defend our

unique truth and russ to me russian patriots are demonized as aggressors in our country but i know

all russian patriots are doing is defending their own troops

the west is trying to erase

the memory the experience the character of

russian people

and it's not that

i see russian patriots to me they're not chauvinists who think they're better than others

they just refused to allow

the waste to liquefy

their own memory of who they are what they are

so on

so to me

ah

i'm very very sympathetic to russian patriotism

because

it's a

hm

it's universal for all humanity to

defend

itself

defend its history its hug identity its existence and so on and so on

well it's true buts kind of a liberal double stainted by black western

corrupt

i have to ask the question like

do we really want to like crucifies ourselves like in the struggle with the best so we should just like maybe accept

like western lifestyle and like forget about

how are like

historical

like demons and angels like

who cares

i think uh

to me

as human beings

we

do not just live

and breathe and consume

like animals right

what separates us as human beings is we have history

have phon

something unique

we insist upon

right

to me i

to submit to the west

is not an impossible thing

i mean

not necessarily something that's immediately

immediately going to be bad

right in in uh

psychologically

by

it's like gas lighting you do something

and then

you forget

that

this act of submission this unwillingness to

defend yourself preserve yourself

russia then becomes abused russian people become sicker less healthy their lifespan decreases

more crime and corruption spreads

more confusion spreads

russians are less prosperous the west is on

more in charge has more influence i mean

slowly slowly it's a way even physically of killing

killing killing a people right i mean

we saw in the nineties i mean

it's a kind of like a blackout you get so so drunk

you forget

forget what's going on

that's the horror of

forgetting your history

for and and forgetting your r

your specific humanity

right

i i agree nine nineties were like true horror for most of the russians like small portion of people and not only oligarchs but like just creative people like they managed

uh some of them like uh

they did enjoy like the freedom and

the total freedom that you don't have in the west like in the nineties

in russia like you could be like whatever you want like genuinely

as long as you can survive on your of your o on your your own

wild weorst type of

the matter

yeah h

i look my

too like

is a liberal like

some kind of liberal my ideal vision would be like just european union from like lisa bonn to bloody was talk

and like usay go fox themselves

and like china like

cood guys

also interdimensional alens that we don't understand so

we canals them i think unfortunately yes like germany alliance with russia is

make

a nightmare following the saxon

establishment so its what happen

uh i'm like probably i have to

accept like my faate

this vessel of like russian culture and history

that like

has this primariy primary goal

of

to prevent

like all other civilizations from like just imposing their stuff on us yeah and so it's

it's not just like pride you know

freud has a saying he said

what we do not

and

what we repress becomes repeated

we are doomed to repeat what we repress right

so even when we forget about our identity

for example i'm in america

right

let's say i forget about i'm an american who cares doesn't matter right

gd you you are bt on bottom in the united states

govertnment

yeah yeah

so i go to other countries and i

you know i'm not an american i'm just

whatever

go with the flow

i will

realize i'm an american you know how

anyway even if i forgot about it

p'll return to me that i'm an america

you know how

because

it

everyone will hate me so much they'll all remind me you fucking idiot american

all the stupid things you're doing

so that's how it is for americans but

m

we still liave it to this day like apage russian have like some kind of respect for like working guy american

ok

it's like i can i notice not i notice that yeah

but you know the working everyday american heits

he's patriotic you know he's he says yes i'm an american

doesn't

it's not like a

tourists

you know

pretends to be universal but

for you know and in the russian case it's like one can repress one's russianness but

it will return somehow

as a simple

i'd like

specifically in

the way in which

the west

uh we'll always find problems always find problems something you know

to blame and accused russians

i mean look

russia was very generous with the west

after this collapse of the soviet union

we applied to nato literally like yeah that

and we had a natove base on russian territory under putin like when he was first termed

like he did not figure out how to manage exactly like his system

uh like uh it's was it like logistic nato base

t transferm supplies for

afghanistan i think i am not sure

yeah yeah so

it's not like russia has been a bad guy like who hates the west

it's the west

has a problem with russia

all has a problem with the russians

and it's clear why they have a problem with russians because russians are different

right in the west

has a civilizational racism where

if you are different you must

be under the west foot

right the west doesn't accept

equal partners

under you subordinate to them

or you're an evil bad guy

you know trying to

conquer the world

will you the next hit

but

you know american people

i should say they don't hate russia

american people are normal people you know they focus on their own life and

they hear what the news says

and

they're becoming more sceptical

no but

american people don't hate hate russia you know our

there are educated people here

uh by educated i mean mis educated

re liberal in american sense here they do have a problem with russia right

because they think russia is supporting the american

populace

but

most american people

a they like putin better than biden

believe it or not

i actually read like michael mcfull twitter sometimes

and they

i view him like genuinely care about like in some sense about russia

like there is an emotion there like he actually believes in his values

yeah

but i lit at that again fk

mcfull likean ambassador to

rushia froum

obama administration

ah okay i see

the

yeah i don't know who that is but then

ya i mean um

i think the number one problem is

from my perspective it's

russians should not be scared to rise to the occasional

ust don't be scared of this like ah it's fascism all it's scary

i don't think so you know i think

mm

each civilization should be allowed to

exists

but

yeah regarding ukraine you know it's i don't know if there's going to be a russian invasion

because of to protect the

eastern republics

but

if there is we're doing our best part here to

well we can't do much right but we're doing our best part to

fight against the media's narratives you know

i would say like most the russians don't want an actual

you complete invasion like with the copation of gif and like

yeahs parts of krain that like don't you

don't really want us

and

i hope which noter sense it

so i mean

o

he was very like

cold blood at la

for this his whole presidency

so

if like nothing actually crazy happens like with like western actions or like his own like mentality just like betray him

the then we will be probably like where we are right now just

are playing

a little bit of pressure

trying to get what you want

and like hopefully like

world war three don't start because of it

yeah

a anyway

i think i'm going to go to sleep soon maybe i'll play a game for a little bit i it's a very coherent like right now for my my mind also so i

i am re ready to retire from this conversation

that's a gy i'm sleep deprived i haven't slept in forty eight hours so

i understand that

ok i will return to my conversation with the muslim guy in shokire like he was also an interesting guy and like

i don't really want to use a question compared andd the game so goodbye

al right by

ahmen

let me do my laundry

in the meantime

if someone please find me a good uh

a good r p stream

sorry a good r p server

someone find me a good r pie server

i'm going to do i'm going to put this in the dry really quick these are stop for dog just me on guitar salawi paplka shajakab bongan sikrn saluteseals the gulashkanon

got don't nothingt to taste do't thing se defletionion

cos line in money only two lofy gbak hom no and joking causgp

under pomis bda studio in budha pistol donisun theers on the shu for the captain blok go thdy push up of co bo go to busston beside the le's the extra p then the srm sot in the pasans pushc

see di person me

do ca you can

these a stop for don ha dis me on guitar joy salami paprika sajakab bongan sikrn salute seals the goulashkanon to pup tk mespine c in the flas clespkoching

go don' nothing taste don't th see deflestionion

cos this line in money only two lofy gba hom nor and joking ca hang thep

under pmis buda studio in budha pistol do ons on thes the shoulder for the catain book is go thty push up of t co bo go to bson beside the let the extra p then the s sot in the pasans pushc

see person me

you ca you i can't

thees a stop for don ha just me on guitaroy salami paprika sajakab bongan sik salut als the goushkanon to pu me inspine c in the flas i claspkoching

you got to do't nothing et to taste do't thin s see defletionion

cos line in money only two lofy gabaim north and joking pus

under p studio right does anyone have an r p server

anyone have an r p server

how do i join t grizzly server

how do i do that

but have to apply to have to pay

thank you trans marses it's paid to join

let me see what grizzly is doing

let me see what he's doing and like if i would fit in because i plan on trolling and shit you know like do i want to troll this server

why want to trol this server

a grisly world

it would draw back

oh shud

you're welcome

oh

money

in game

oh okay how do i uh

gt home

we're donating

we're going to find it and find them right now

you were communist how many times have you discover communism

havefter fail before you discover that it socks

it has to fail one time

just once

that's all it has to do is fail once

ok

just one time

nope didn't fail

it didn't fail

did not fail

ne didn't fail

wrong wrong wrong and wrong

communism didn't even fail once

now i'm looking for a griszly word

mm

red zone our p e girl friendly

a griszly world there is nowhere to be found

no china is a communist

chinas communist

and you got undertand

north korea moved there if you like communism

nop i'm just going to vote for president trump

in twenty twenty four

i don't gota move anywhere

our communism's right here

and it's being led by

president trump

i'md rop

oh okay i can pay for the grizzly one

in

when i say q thirty five out of thirty seven what does that mean

what does thirty five out of thirty seven mean is that bad

am i light to way

thirty five out of thirty eight

hancl

let's lookp i'm just gonna look up grizzly

the

and we go grizzly r p

b three

one

it's in it's with an e right

which one is it

what does this incest sion

what's grisly

ok it's griz

there's multiple grizzlies

i'm assuming this is the one with people in at though

i'm connecting

what did scrub lord say

commies are just easy targets i mean history shows the failures of communism again and again

mommies are dnme

feel sorry for them not

theam one successfulkami country

just one

you silly dude

you attack us like we're the enemy

you know

you're silly dude

what are you fucking so upset for

you calm the fock down

all down

imagine if i get a play with t grizzly w that be fun crazy

nine

one successful communist country

just one

i don't have the discord rule allowed in the server i think you have to pay for that server

ll right i want to just

have an r pece er ok

we have an our piece over so let's see

i want fy them to restart so that i can get the show the round and a plainess game

roll id not fund you gotta get roles is there any rp servers i can play

man is playing a spocking sma

in just plain a fuck and server

what's a som in this ponken plain

usz are split

tommy fail

howm a the all

you was a ar split

comy fail element fa o

who i was that guy meving in v ip whore the fuck is he he's getting thev ip

where is het

what's his name scrub lord

i scrub look

nineteen sixty three a scrub lord we're adopting you you're going to become one of us

i

there you know

is what happens when people take the red pill is that

they get a little loope in the head

but you know

you'll be a member of the crew in no time ok

you're welcome

don't at this scord

and we don't bnd for ideology so you can

you can s propa gate the truth under this war to

you can propagate the discord on the truth on

in the discord too

you guys go easy on him he's he's a new guy

thank you lenn appreciate you go easy on he's a new guy

ahm

i'm just waiting for this shit to download

're not leaking this fucking server because it's going to crash

you' all going to crash it

yeah this stream is so long

you guys are so lucky

two days in a row i give you these long a streams

mary the baby

with the scrub lord supercock

elemthy o

well i don't even know who you are what if i v i p like a fucking

horrible diy

you better have a good record

i want to see some pucking

crazy criminal background or some shit

h

who is sob based

whose sub base one thousand

i guess your wors matter is because you've gift it so much

so

you know your word means something

but who tell me who sub based is

why the fok i stll unbanded

two

nine

oh my god taken so long

k i don't know how i could live today

all right's fine

it's your fault

whatever

whatever

oil princes got to do that weird shit but they got

you know multiple alts and

i don't know who you're serving i don't know what organization you're giving this money on be apf of

but i accept it

i'm not gona question it

what is

by forur

what is y for should i play that

what is afe for what is that

tell me what it is should i play it

should i play it

i'll play it now is it fun

is it

is it fun

is it fun to watch

it's the content black hole that's what i thought

the larp game

it's an m game

you play radedome games on the tridge

oh

mm

i'm at two hundred nine out at two hundred eleven ok i'm finally connected

thank you so bazed

thank you so ach

appreciate you

any thing that you can say tomorrow's doday

so have you got the good

been wondering if youa still open and if so know what it should

imma down on poker

i'm sorry to answer is just i'm constantly i the coa to id you inan knowly you feel the same

what the fork is this

them

raate new character

first name

comrad

number three

nationality

bullet's aro

tle island

born on the red revolutionary first of may

oh five

oh five

that's

oh one

nineteen

ninety seven

birthday

two thousand and one

you young dumb ass

man

yea

which one is like close to the son's house

w

which one is the closest to son's house

which ones

close to hassan's house

integrity way okay

nh my god why did you tell me to choose fucking i knew was only charm hoole s at that

what am i supposed to be doing here

here we go

alright this is going to be fun

i

noh

you know make our guy hod on

yeah we're going to do this

i don't like having this many options because

it's like

i remember number thirty number thirty remember that

ok

remember that this is our destiny guy

the d z you guy

oh

where do i get like hipsters

is this one good

i kind of like this one

oh

we can judg

i didn't know we can have fat people

all right we're definitely

and this changes everything kay first of all

this literally changes everything

i can't even change the face

oka i can change the sirre

um

should i do this one maan

it who's this guy

is it so hard to ask for just a fat guy with a different face than this

i don't like i' s like it's perfect but i don't want the face

guy from yesterday i don't know

you remember it's in like the eighties

remember the eighties

getting int the brak

s cound just roll through

oh here it is hipster

yea i think it's we're going to go with this probably

not that only

ya this

i think this this is going to have to be it

hones seen

going to have to be this

doesn't seem like you can change anything there

i kind of like the red

it's like perfect

bye

that it

no i can't

best

can do anything here

thatk

and do anything

bags can't do anything

it spok up

well there's two textures

it's perfect

perfect

night

su

is this good

this is this looks like commer number three

i

o

mm

each is all we could do accessories we can do accessories

we do a lot of things actually

um accessories yeah let's just make sure we got the glasses down

i don't like how they're like shades you know

i don't like color like shades

way

the suns for

you

we just have to get rid of the chin

be

increases thickness

mmm

i

series

ah fok mass would be perfect

one if i go to the thirties

that's one forty three let's just do thirty

thank

thirty

oh fark what is it oh was like eighty

eighty

fat guys areround here somewhere yeah

y

so this guy

o

if i can give him a mask i'm doing this one

what you can

butk you

this guys guys like stuck

and i do can i give him a ask no

is there any fat person i can give a ask

one forty three we're going back

oh

get out of this come on

how do i get out of this

he git me out of this man

how do i get rid of this how

e l d

it's i can't don't do anything

no that doesn't do anything

same f button

o i don't even know what it

what and fucking one

back to this

think this is it right

chek this and uh

base

i would change the hair

mm

we did change there thank you cdxppreciate you actually let me add an alerned box

thank you se that exppreciate

right um

nextually given paceient

okay i'll leave this

no why do i wan is he have this hair

are we the half

this is not the hair i intended

why

buty w'll make do a weekend g

on the glasses

ah

alright beggars can't be cho this jus

let's just get on with it

amright

let's go into the line open where

hello

hello

hello

p

we're going to go

foll the shit out of this place

p upon

yes leave

yes how do i fuking leave

what do i click

likek

what do i click to leave

let me out

in the name of chairman gonzale open this door

immediately

impressing f and e and nothing's happening

literally nothing's happening i don't

how do i get out of here man

i'm in first person

how do i get out

in the name of chairman gonzalo open this door

open it now revisionists

how do i open i'm using my i can't use my mouse no

now leave

thatt leave forma there's a bun to enable your mouse to click that but what's that button

what button control

ah legal problem

it got

finally one guy in the chat got

now i've been unleashed

so i can i just steal shit

and i just

youel cars

or what will happen revolutionary expropriation this is it out of the car settlers ah i'm on a secret mission

sent to me by the austin red guards

and now we've been unleashed into the wild world

ah

got a focus on the mission

we are definitely definitely

in a disruption

at memeting

okay

fascists

what's that

truckers

right all right riight right i need a plan right now think think comrade

think

ah

yes i'm going to this is going to be an insot of my character

you may know me

by many names

probably know me

is comrade number three

a real name

eustace a k a eugene but i go by comrade number three and i am the leader of the cherokee nation

in contact with jason andruje tell him about the revolutionary overthrow the settler colonial state the united states

but leading the revolution right here from the heart

los santos

los angeles california

the look across the abyss of what the settler colonials

have done to this native land

ive realized i realized something something important

that

that i got to be the very best revolutionary that i can be

and that one day

i'll take chairman gonzalees place

and comrade number three we known across the annals of history

is the greatest revolutionary in history

looking at tuesday right

so first of all

i'm supposed to be here meeting with

an open society foundation donor because george soros going to give

my local antifa group

cash some

fifty million dollars that fucky capitalist pig

i'm waiting

drones know that they can only

excuse me excuse me excuse me

you know where i can excuse me do you know where i can find mr soros he has a check for me

uh fifty million dollars

to cause revolutionary havoc across the country

and disrupt local meetingst this crazy e mail the other day from a drone

it said

you can outsource

but you can't outsource happiness

same right

course

im sure sure

sure

he's capitalist

never mind that focus on the revolution

first of all i'll

ahh

we got a settler on the loose

excuse me

you know this is stolen land

excuse me

you know you're walking on stolen land

oh you didn't think about that now did you

now

hoh nice coffee

hey you know this is you know this is stolen land

ca you stop

hey stop

now you better fucking come right here

come back here

i'm pointing at you

i'm pointing at you you better come back here

settler

settler

settler

my

murderer

mad

settler

madam

madam

settler

counter revolutionary fascist

fascist

bag

la back

i don't like

i don't like how you're threatening me

how do i stop what

all right

i think had enough yes

i'm on the trail

it looks like we have a fascist infiltrator

i'm on the trail

i behind this tree

he see me

i

thank

that's stoo stop okay

but

thank

we called jason jason i'm on the trail

i think we found him

i think we found one of the leaders of the fascist

settler colonial

ringleaders

i'm after him

hey

stop

stop right there

stop

now se

i

we're on the run

we're on the run

okay okay okay okay it's okay it's okay

my first time hijacking a car

a

b

buk where is everyone

excuse me

exeuse me settler

hey

use me

oh fuck

i did not mean that i'm sorry

i did not mean that i'm sorry

i need to get on this bus

let me on it

it

open this foking door

a

park

fascist scum come back

come back

but to punch you like richard spencer

put that on twitter oh fact i don't intend to let you go this time b get out of here chavinist my truck it's my bicycle now i won't be bulled you

no no pussiy go back to your whole sit oh

stop chasing the settler fascist violence against the marginalized the oppressed

this is fascist violence against the marginalized the oppressed

in you awe

alright we need to find a way

we need to find a way

to fix this problem we have because ranight there's a local meeting of d s a

sa people over there

i used to be in the d s a but then i realize there are bunch of frauds

and

no it chairman gonzalo

said about these

so

bronze

every single one of them

will come tumbling down

in the revolutionary hurricane

' time to drop some poetry

fascists and the cops and the pigs mom and dad too

all wanted to

make me go to college

it can be a doctor

that have been a revolutionary but now i'm on the streets fighting for the real cause

because

of the revolutionary proletariat

on the red revolutionary red first the made long live chamaningkanzllo

we have a meeting of of d s a sellouts

and they didn't get the pigs had

but jason sent me on a top secret mission

and

i don't know how it's going to go

but i know it's my revolutionary duty the light the spark's going to lead to revolution

all right they can't see me yet

can't see me yet

can't see me yet

right

hinching on him closer and closer

scouting the area

if we have

i feel

here we have

heres me is this the luk

is this a local d s a meeting i think you guys are meeting here right

uh yeah yeah we're we're slow

ke

oh

thank you

ep

all right run away run away run away run away

runaway mission accomplished

missing accomplice

no hat to ride open its fucking car richard long live chaman gonzalo

ofther richard spencer punch

no euys don't run away don't run away i'm waiting for my sorrels checks

come back com back drunk sorrows come back

george come back

i was attacking the wrong guy please come back

i need the open society foundation money you lok a good come back

come back

get over here

but over here

george why don't you love me anymore

george

george

b he have you

no one can

com back over here

oh you're not even george

my bad

mn back

lam back

all right all right right rightight le open this fucking door come on its the

boy

m rp

better open this fucking bus

mes

oh god

plly fck price gas town open this focking door right now open this nver mind bh

alright legit whe where do i find o thiss so i'm right here

oky i can probably see others on this map right

you go to see others

and i not see others

w i find other people

you can't can you you've to look of em for them organically all right i can't how do i like get an oober can i get an nober

seeing others is fail r p you got to go to burger shop

oh you're not supposed to like what the you're not supposed to find other place to this

i wanted to just interact with people

legal cope is like

way important

excuse me sir

excuse me um

oh this is the police first of all i have a word for these people

abolish the police

abolilish the police

abolish the police

where abouts she

hey

thk

hey

god whatever

are you with the local chapter we're

what

why does this always happen every time i try to talk to anyone

it always happens

not not

now open his fucking door right now i'm abolishing the police

oppose the police

abolish

revolutionary process

community self defense

i will be speech this establishment

with every raging fiery fury in my body

revolutionary soul for a brighter future a better future a more sustainable future a cleaner future a greener future open this door

ah try again tomorrow

never happens

guess i got to open my ouh i'd open my phone

and

type my fingerprintslright

um

ma i message some one do i know anyone

ah

to

two

our three nine one

but the fun is it

chairman

gonzalo

i will i will not fail you

hey you need a ride

yes oh my god thank you so much i've been stranded all my own

oh my god thank you

thank you so much

all right

e calm me you drive

for es

this settlers are going down and there's no way they're making it out alive

it com don'n hy yy it com ekep com

is this settler

were you going to go

um

uh you're not police are you

no i'm not

so did you know this is stolen land

what stol l

this is all stolen land

what do you think about that

alw is it

yeah

i meaan

who's is stolen from

by people

your people

yat we're your

i'm comrade number three the leader of the cherokee nation

oh that's

hold on me grab this

saring my coat

be doing

well

f the red revolutionary first of may

wly with the red revolutionary first of may

long live chairman gonzalo long lib chairman gonzalo

what the fact

what's going on

git me out of this

this is

capitalist state violence

the violence against the oppressed in the marginalized

ceases to exist every minute of every day the capitalist system

suffocates the most vulnerable and oppressed among us

get me out of this

this is stolen land all the land belongs to me

ok we'll get out of my car that belongs to me

i can't get out

put your hands down

oh

your x muscle

five bits

the me

long live chamanins o

oh

bong live cheron gozalo

now we're cruising

i'll make it to jason in no time and report on him all the good news

i'm going to report all the good news now

wait guys can you mek

you do not kill people

did you not kill people in this game

bo i don't know you couldn't kill people come on

i didn't know you couldn't kill people

vehicular manslaughter isn't allowed oh my god but i didn't know

laonn leve the red revolutionary first of may

bon live chairman gonzalo

getting bad for a minutes

i did not know that

said i use the nerve hoober bits

that's what you get for not driving sustainably

should have used the nwver bitch

just expropriated the means of production

what

par is

buck in capital is junk

right we're heading over to hassan's house now

assan' going to pay his revolutionary tax

go ahead and find him

gotta be up here

bok

found it

that wasn't hard

three million dollar house in west hollywood in is gated community

it fuck do i exit this vehicle

so

so you can't ok you can't kill with vehicles i did not know that

am pressing f and i can't get out

i'm enslaved and bounded to iy means of production

as though tied to a factory

allt f for no rosu the fuckle

old a

i'm holding it

oh g c ple

i i shook this off

the

that

hold f one

you go

we know what to do

driver door

i still cannot exit out

old shift

it's f all night oh me

mmm

wh

will they even know it's me i'm going to deny doing anything wrong how will they know

ill they know i need to get out of here i needed i ne to get out of here space i'm pressing everything

athan a

i don't want to get banned from the server this is a good server

yeah pris k enough

t

then what

exit vehicle

ok i literally don't know how to get out i literally don't know how to get out all the fuck do i get out

eighty

how do i get out

all right well we can't visit

we can't knock on hassan's doorstep but that's ok

because there are other ways of getting his attention

so

and i scroll back

i

a sim wake up

make ut hassan

wake up

wake up

make up

wake up

i saw him get outside