INFRARED – #2 ft. S. Ankh

[Music]

all right so what's up everybody this is

our fourth entry in the infrared show

and we have another special guest this

time coming from burkina faso word hey

so yes as monkey and I'm an

instructional designer on Pan Africanist

writer teacher Oh

currently born in America currently

residing in yep and I think one of the

reasons we wanted to have you on is

because I think the the the kind of

questions around pan-africanism and in

general if you want to use the world

this kind of shift I think of the world

spirit you know the guys to Africa which

is different from the 21st century on I

think has been really neglected and

under loaded by the Western left and you

know even just in general did the kind

of way of thinking of leftist even

globally and I think there's a lot of

lessons and insights that are to be

learned from it that applied to

everybody that are relevant to everybody

and I would agree with you I would agree

that it's a movement that is well well

you can say it's always kind of been

there but it's just that I'm occurring

that is just now seems to be getting

more momentum definitely not as much as

people in the movement like myself would

sort of evident as well I don't ask you

for you looking there to a certain

degree would not as much as we would

like but its considerable yeah I mean

I myself am not too versed on the the

entire history of pan-africanism or the

current trends in the movement but I'm

very interested about I'm very

interested in so would you say that as a

pool as a vision for as this kind of

almost is also a geopolitical

international there's all sorts of

different facets to the vision what do

you think as far as in terms of right

now in 2020 where do you think is

seizing the sight of so this week

pan-africanism unfolding hard to say but

I would say that generally speaking the

base pan-africanism is is really

ironically not an Africa it is mostly in

the West the United States the Diaspora

does have reputation of recognizing the

movements and its strengths weakness

leads more so than Africans within the

continent I want to be if that is that

is in fact the case in 2020 I have to

say although in 2020 a lot of things

have been asked I feel like the

different conditions of Africans all

over the world it's being brought to

bear but I also believe that it's not

like people didn't know these things and

generally speaking in the movement

itself we are still waiting for a

central inertia and I think that's the

biggest issue as long as base has no

power structure that you can say well

this institution stands for

pan-africanism this institution will be

able to fund this initiative behind Pan

Africanist there is no such institution

so although we've been out and about

since I could say the time of marcus

garvey which is eighteen hundred's it it

has not it as it has not materialized as

of yet hasn't it yeah and what you

mentioned about the the central rule of

that the diets were it makes a lot of

sense you know beginning from the

anti-colonial struggles they were led by

people who were exposed to the kind of

outside world outside of where they were

from first even across the board but

also it also makes a kind of intuitive

sense you know that the people who have

been removed from the homeland with the

other one so to speak now only then are

they able to bear witness to this kind

of Africa as a whole right rather than

be bogged down by the kind of narrow

view that are of the parochial in

particular surface things exactly right

and I would say it I would say

corresponds as well to um to thank

hopeful for this process of reaction

ization so those within the Diaspora

reconnecting with their African heritage

we see a correspondence between the

movement percent hopeful of the Sankofa

movement was process of reorganization

and then an African yeah I mean one of

the interesting insights of what you

know I would I call material is

dialectic so to speak is that the moment

in which something appears purely

negative groundless devoid of base and

substance which one can argue at face

value would be the African Diaspora

right taken from one of the insights of

the dialectic is that the moments of the

negativity is merely the process by

which the ground or the concrete

and it's more fundamental level as able

to be revealed in other words it may

appear that there's just this negativity

it's just this absence but this is

merely a part of a deeper reconciliation

that makes sense I think I catch my

drift in terms of me to be appreciate

what there is there is a saying that the

revolution will not be televised in the

sense that there is that change that

will take place but it won't exactly be

visually suddenly and I definitely agree

to that that's it doesn't mean that it's

that it's not existent but definitely

without an institution it is it is hard

for us to get in games it's hard for us

to give me games yeah I mean yeah I mean

the the the question of the institution

you bring up is really interesting

because in this age in which we're

witnessing a shift from the Westerner

Eurocentric oriented manner of let's say

the relation between nations and

institutions which is the traditional

nation-state to this kind of more I

would argue without

asian-type of statehood which is

transnational and it's more it's more

abstract the institutions for the

speaker

hmm for example they whether it's a

communist party or some kind of higher

apparatus it's it's something almost to

beyond institution but also which is

able to Brown the kind of network of

institutions it's in that you entered

that to the Asian to the East rather

than in the West would say they think

that they are the ones who kind of

wanted that movement or would you say I

mean because the wave of globalization

seems a bit something that was just the

natural evolution of captains

as well oh yeah well the question of the

origination is difficult I think in

terms of because the way I think which

is a kind of the dialectic thinking is

that something may originate in the West

let's say global capital and so on but

it only originates there in order to

reveal something about somewhere else

which is to say I think the trend of the

late 20th century it's difficult to say

whether Asian is what the way or Africa

or Latin America and so on I tend not to

even think in those terms I just think

in terms of they represent new kinds of

orientations forms of statehood and I

only know Asia because right now at this

kind of decisive moment there's a clear

struggle between the American American

imperialism China and Russia and so on

this one but yes I think it's

interesting what do you perceive as

mainly the main obstacles to this kind

of institution building that is from a

kind of an African perspective because I

although I don't know much about the

situation I think I've perceived

especially in South Africa instances of

this new rise of xenophobia and anti

vibrant stuff that is marrying yes it is

I would say I'll start off with the

problems I'll start off with internal

and then I'll go to extend internally

the biggest obstacle to and Africans is

in fact the concept in itself and

Africanism is it be crazy if you think

about it because it doesn't exist

anywhere else there if

there is no such thing as how do you say

pan your kid is a pan-asian ism doesn't

exist in that form exactly you can say

white supremacy you want different

services that may exist but there is no

idea that okay everyone that looks like

this certain race is gonna be on the

same page about this this and that it's

not stated they may be something like

that but I've certainly never seen it in

purest events the European Union try to

exemplify that certainly unions unions

but you see how that will be army times

give pardons you start to fill up like

so I think that's on the virus in

particular hates that so you've seen it

it's it's it's possible and I want to

shout out to my friend there in Germany

just a young shout out you guys are

gonna be the next bosses looks like just

the geopolitical prediction but that

later but hey I Steve but yes what I'm

trying to say is that that would be the

concept itself is too big initially now

you can get back into the internal

issues I would say that the disunity

that is inherent in Africa's history is

a big issue it's look at the history of

Africa going back to prehistoric times

up until now there are not too many

empires that able to unite big swaths of

the conflict so you have a division that

has always been there and that's what's

quite huge has diverse landscapes and

most of them to the average person

planet there's a lot of differences

there and not a lot of people actually

has never been tempted to unify all of

the more than one grandest you have your

modern empires that fire Egypt or at the

time

and you have different empires but no

way it would unify I give that one

identity based on race

there's always citizenship of a country

or state or an empire never fixation on

racism itself so there you have it all

do you have somehow similar cultural

tendencies you have Michigan with

identity so it's never been there and as

I say the first pan-african africanist

in concept was actually able to put into

words was not even enough

so that's your your first issue we're

talking about pan-africanist and the

biggest issue in africa is the fact that

Africans are not united in one mind even

though culturally wrong so I think that

is the biggest issue if you see

historically that is always being waged

whereas others are able to you know move

in a way that is not detrimental to the

base Africans it can often be caught in

it because of the lack of disunity

so I think that is one of our internal

is just to wrap it up not externally

Africa is a bit of a bit of Heisley our

resources you can't see a continent like

Africa and then not think that you want

something from it so that disunity when

you see it I don't really and it's funny

because I don't really put any malice or

anything in the minds of those who take

advantage of weaknesses but I just feel

like in a capitalist system that is what

you do you see a weakness and exploit it

and get the resources that you need and

that's really least I can say the

winners don't really have moments those

are for people who are little in the

winning side so that's really what it is

that's just

the external forces I would say that

that's basically the two big issues it's

lack of unity and externally why I think

counsel or is that lack of unity then

the obvious capitalist response to such

elitist

yeah I mean one of the things that had

brought me in interest to various not

own not simply to pan-africanism you

know that the word is kind of a

catch-all but to this unique

circumstances you find in Africa as

opposed to Ellsworth was I was writing

at dwelling and researching this place

if what is the National question in the

21st century the framework of the

National question principally by is

formulated by Marxists in the early

twentieth century is clearly no longer

sufficient in order to capture because

Africa is probably the best example here

you have what are apparently I'm sorry

apparently national or at least protoman

see where that utilize tribal in all the

sorts of kinds of differences which

cannot be neatly the limit livable to

demarcate in a separate nations but in

studying for example Europe there's a

it's an interesting case even in Europe

how did Germany become a nation how did

France combination you know these

weren't always United Nations they were

they were it was you know so but then I

came to the conclusion that it's a

tricky question as far as even the word

Africa is a little bit misleading right

because like you said it's so diverse

there's so many different regions and

cultures but I think what unites I think

the thrust of pan-africanism and what

while it's a the concept it's able to

have this kind of conceptual

coherence is big it's not it's not

because of what Africans share

positively it's simply what they share

negative it's what they share as a

common existential and world historical

predicament in relation to the best Easi

of colonialism and more fundamentally

what we kind of call modernity

it's a common particulate which can be

defined negatively and my hypothesis is

that the point of these kinds of broad

movements such as pan-africanism is not

so much to erase this wealth of

difference but almost to establish his

common recognition of this common

predicament all things Oh in order that

these differences can actually

development flourish on their own terms

similar to European create lists

definitely I everything went to seven oh

no no no just yeah yeah yeah the sort of

subsuming an identity for the larger

whole but on the issue we had spoken on

um issue an identity crisis and it made

me think of the achievements or the work

of dia that Diop was doing um and his

work more it more broadly for the

pan-african movement him trying to

assert a unifying element in through

culture you know that was like his

long-standing project um and so I was

interested if you wanted to speak it all

on the achievement of Diop no Banga

particularly in reference collect the

UNESCO debate well symposium so on and

so forth so I guess to give some

background information because of the

identity crisis that Africans at home

and abroad face

there have been scholars scientists who

try to assert some form of view

a fine characteristic check anta Diop

went on this mission looking for

linguistic and other cultural unifying

characteristics of black Africa and so

if you wanted to carry him up in there

oh well okay yeah that's just - yeah

just piggyback on that I guess just to

set the stage I think essentially what

diabolos he was a scholar he's an

activist a physician for historian he

did a lot of research just to actually

connect the cultural trainings we didn't

happen because the disunity especially

affected the education of Africans and

the conquer and destroy tactic took on

kicks on multiple forms of course it's

been an educational system and so

applicants will be next to each other

realize that they do in fact have a

likeness so this research that he did

just I'm gonna try and summon him he

spent a lot but essentially he started

off with proving that Africa was the

birthplace of mankind he analyzed

findings by Petri in the Great Lakes

region and one of his most controversial

statements in there was more

controversial findings was that the

Egypt Egyptian civilization as it was

long was in an African civilization not

only culturally information how did he

choose this well he did any melanin

dosage test he was able to actually get

melanin fossils loans

count the amount of melanin and find

that that Mahna Mahna Mahna someone that

is of the median time of course the

matter of the skin color is always

controversial episode

which is all black it's true but with

skin color in itself does not say well

this person was wet because you have

dark skin Asian Jeff darts Little

Indians but there's some finally

dark-skinned person in after me

what are we really shake so that

proximity being followed

intellectual instant coated and gave

descriptions and I think the most the

part of that that was that was the part

of his patients that was undebatable

confession all those other points I just

stated scholars disagree but could not

disprove at this symposium in 1974 he

stood there at the mescal symposium and

he debated with other Egyptologist and

although they did not agree they could

not disprove it and the one point that

they left valid was the linguistic links

between Egypt Egyptian language Medicare

and West African language known as what

the linguistic links between them will

seem to have 80% rate meaning that 80%

of the words actually correspond and had

the same meaning tolling sound in some

cases and so reflected even today or was

just back in the day like thousands of

years ago that is today commit military

as it was Middle Kingdom onwards and

then they looked at one of as it is

spoken today machine similarity is that

sounds familiar

is this categorized as a natural Asiatic

language it is language of West African

cinema yeah because it's interesting I

my limited knowledge on the questions

the so called

after Lee

the attic language family go extend as

far as West Africa to Chad and so on and

so on so in very diverse groups which

I'm doubtful were just the result of

foreign influence it definitely the the

question of the Africa Asia attic is

also it is this question that always

comes up and indeed it think is one of

them one of the points where I think job

and I some other scholars would disagree

where he would say that well Egypt was a

majority was was completely black and I

don't believe at any point Egyptian

civilization was completely black but I

believe that during its foundation

prehistoric period and the old kingdom

up until the Middle Kingdom the majority

of the population so that is from Upper

Egypt leading all the way up to the

Delta region was a majority negroid

space and that was so culturally as well

as racially after the Middle Kingdom the

Hyksos invade they occupy for 30 years

that changes the genetic map of Egypt

forever essentially but still they

maintain that that majority in terms of

the ocean far into the linked period but

yes I would say after Asiatic although

it is the term that I do it in terms of

the influence I think that the Asiatic

aspect does not really take too much for

them to after the Middle Kingdom so the

language of what of being a kingdom

being a language that essentially lived

before and after the Asiatic region of

North Africa I think is a good exempt

from that particularly although in West

Africa you will find languages that have

influence because of course later

invasions of North Africa yeah I mean I

just mean to say no I I agree and that's

why I think the term is kind of

the fact that there needs to be such

determines what I find interesting

because you see that from India to

Europe we were in Europe there's a

common language family that's called the

indo-european language family yeah

Semitic which is a branch of Africa

sorry supposedly it begs the question

where's that coming from you know

because it's not caught so it opens the

door to the question of does this

language family originated in Africa and

I think it's an open question indeed I

am NOT going to say I have to versed on

the origins of that particular language

with what I'm doing and doing the

research in the debate in fact that

actually came up where they were

comparing Semitic languages to the

Egyptian languages and they were not

able to find as many links as would be

perceived because think of Egypt you

think that you didn't have a lot of

things with Semitic people but in fact

it is not which drives me to the last

point which was the cultural aspect of

Egypt which is to me really people's

convinced despite being the more

concrete scientific and linguistic tools

just the culture of the Egyptian people

I think is where it comes up first have

circumcision you have the matrilineal

organization of the state which is

pretty common in Africa it only changes

as people moves and of course people

move the woman has less value because

she's essentially more baggage if you're

moving so then they may settle and then

the system may change to a patriarch or

Petra vanillin because if that moves but

if you're staying in one spot then the

female can pretty much be allowed to

have a power transition so that is what

is evident in a lot of affluent

societies

and from that as far as as well as other

different things like as twice leaving

the headrest I don't know if it's

something that it's true it's a little

thing that they put under the neck and

then you're supposed to sleep on it the

idea is to preserve your hairstyle for

the next day pretty something that is

not found in the Near East

it was only found in partly in China

around that region that's what the song

headrest don't find them necessarily in

the Middle East don't really find them

too much in Europe it is the interior of

Africa Egypt and Far East Asian so it's

it's one of those things that's the

cultural culturally the people were

after us will debate that neighborhood

were able to enforce to admit that

culturally Egypt is in black some places

and check out the job and Banga with

driving forces who were in fact it was

three against seven and they should have

won yeah it was doing snow it was quite

it's just a shame that people don't know

much about us and had shared a people in

heaven that actually has a transcript of

the entire debate and it's that's what

the conclusions this really strains the

way it completely essentially was that

they admitted scholars that were present

admitted that linguistically and

culturally Egypt was an African nation

but they said find the other points

mentioned essentially Europe and tearful

a Bengal were so prepared that they did

not expect to get this kind of this to

have this kind of research I have this

kind of information in front of them and

so they were not compared for the debate

which is weird a little t-shirt or a

debate and you do not don't have all the

things that you just take L lost

babe but they said while we we can't

disprove you but we don't and I guess

that's just an option spaceman yeah I

mean one of the things I think that

definitely we're coming from is that

there's this blind trust in

institutional at the West I mean

legitimacy and credibility and all this

kind of stuff and you have to really be

coming from a more foreign perspective I

think it's the worst in America probably

to be able to see that the experts and

these institutions and all the kinds of

epistemology and knowledge and also

forms of knowledge or they're not sent

down from heaven there's an air sir

right the institutional paradigms of the

West you can see that they're stagnating

they're destined for collapse so I'm

always open and interested to rivaling

and heterodox and opposing the challenge

of kind of theories be it in the sphere

of history is described but also in

science always open to you these kinds

of things because I don't possess this

blind from experience I had have to

learn the hard way I don't guess this

trust in the mere inertia of

institutions of the stamp of credibility

legitimacy and segwaying into a relevant

topic on on that program one of the

things the backgrounds upcoming public

interest here ethically is also in

additions of options one is also

psychoanalysis

and what I and one of the things that

have brought I mean again I hate to hit

simply saying the conflict it's not

particularly but brought me to the

sphere of Africa in terms of finding

interest in various movements sort of

what is that it seems to me that on this

question of not only institution

building but also party building right

organization doing that this ecological

psychological so

so on take an unprecedented role in

terms of their importance I've noticed

that in various diverse and African

approaches thinking also from decolonial

Tyrion sort a lot of it is about this

newfound proximity to being able to

psychologically see past in other words

psychological and this question of the

unconscious and so on and so on

especially from Fanning himself himself

a psychoanalyst this question of seeing

this as a site of political and social

significance I think more than anywhere

else in Africa has taken on this

significance and that's why for me as

someone who's not really even coming

from a sort of speak up an African

perspective in the beginning but coming

from a perspective psychoanalysis and

marks on this one it happened that

looking into this looking into Africa

decided managers response what I

inadvertently discovered a lot of

strange almost as the concrete

manifestation of what I was realizing

that this is OK in what sense in terms

of year when you say what you in

theorizing

well from this broad attempt to link

psychoanalysis with Marxism and then

also ontology and so on one of the

fundamental questions for me is this

question of this new significance of

this issue of class consciousness right

how is it that quite something like

class consciousness is able to emerge

because in the past you simply had a

readily made formation the workers

and the industrial working class and all

you have to do was kind of intervene at

that site but now as far as the question

of Marxism is concerned you have this

newfound significance of the ideological

and the psychological so you have to

theorize this too in order to to still

be materialized in a sense right I

understand from the bicycle materialist

perspective these sphere of

psychological and ideological and so on

and so on is not supposed to have so

much significance so the full meaning of

dialectic materials and historical

material all of that has to be

reevaluated it looked at once again I

definitely agree with you I must say

that in African context what is what I

have found recently which is very

interesting is that the African

continent in its state structure is not

monogamous in the sense that it is not

all same in the genus design and it says

that is not all same because there are

certain states in Africa you'll find the

story that do not have the case system

is a caste ism yes do not have that

breakdown in the social structure that

is certainly linked to materials and so

it lands like interesting and

interesting study of like as you say

psychoanalysis and I when I go with then

it's essentially trying to understand

how is it been Africa find itself in

this situation in this particular

situation and when I go into the

psychosis now after what everyone the

territory will going in is very much

hypothesis very much hypothesis so have

me

some research on these videos very very

experiment yes very experiment you look

at the movements you look at Africa has

spoke about science the general scope of

it historic do you study the reference

of difficulties it's mostly linked to

constant or it's the first fact of

course things naturally exactly such as

the simplification and can occur second

means conscious Africa has this this

space that lends itself like any space

to fight a plant the size of it pushes

the possibility of flight to a higher

degree because it's space if a force

comes in with superior military

technology and they are able to display

shillings to another place because there

is that possibility in Africa it's just

that big a lot of it was mostly jungle

and in terms of the central region and

the century's most Johnson people were

beaten they moved into that jungle with

their superior technology being able to

create themselves in Kingdom there and

that would happen from time to time

after the fall of Egypt it became more

and more apparent that these things

could happen

and they did happen and what you find

there is in fact that because of that

the mentality is different that's why

people always passing something what's

up with with Africa military technology

why didn't bomb I didn't get to the

point where it was like Europe or Far

East Asia and I always tell people to

think about this if you look at the

territory that Genghis Khan's able to

conquer and you look at

Golden's they were able to conquer

Eurasia ascension and during that whole

period so ammonia rule of that region

Mansa Musa in Africa was able to be the

richest man in the world and let me tell

you the military technology was no match

they were using cannons and siege

warfare in mobile do in Africa siege

warfare is not on the level Kapil but

yet we have Mansa Musa who's the richest

man on plan so that's that should tell

you already just the disparity because

you have this super powerful military

nation but the richest man in the planet

isn't Africa is really terrible

negligible compared to Mongolia and I've

done this I'm telling you man as someone

who loves military history that he

didn't try to find ways or maybe it's

this one it's that it's just not

complicated if you wanna get to

hypothetical maybe and the Mali rule is

one of the battlefields it depends where

it lies maybe they could secure a

victory when I'm just looking at purity

statistics and what is on hand when you

know the both sides had his weapons

Mongolian people strong superior so that

gives you an idea Atlanta the richest in

Africa and the space in Africa affected

psychologically the the mind of Africans

in the sense of their ability to respond

to content and their focus on conflict

because when you have a system like that

where your little Terry is not being

challenged to that extent you have more

time to focus on other things such as

institutions your laws through morality

really pondering on those topics of

whoremonger because you're not focused

on advanced military technology so those

efforts that are went in different

regions to work that are redirected into

different areas of society

so that's where you see that and that's

why they come from I circle back to you

idea of psychoanalysis because I am

really interested in studying the effect

that that had in the way that

communalism was able to take hold of

this continent because I want to see

essentially how that is licked and I

know that they aren't call them

[Music]

forgetting the word determinism it is

what is called by which determinism I

agree with them to a certain degree I

just don't get to the same conclusion

system I'll assume this is a large

majority of them would choose that

argument that I just gave you to say

that's because after things amazingly

safeassignment as the Train so under

support they get these ridiculous

conclusions but I'm just saying I would

be interesting to look at the different

cultures see okay in this culture that

means means when you move like that you

essentially do the states and so how did

that affect the psychology of the

African so I think I definitely agree

that psycho psychoanalysis is something

that definitely needs to be studied and

needs to be pushing the forefront

because especially if an African think

of how to find any solution to these

problems that we face as you said I

would say that I would agree with you

that an actual ism is very much a

response to an expansion threat as

opposed to a sum of thought that just

came out of our quote unquote light for

a demon due to the interaction you know

it's very interesting you bring up this

point of the exits though you know this

external threat as you put it that I

identify is really not simply only

European colonialism but its modernity

as such its modernity what they call the

catastrophe of mother which even in

Europe right you had the traditional

realities of Europe even these were

swept away and overturned right all over

the world we have should we say the

plight of modernity has posed a

challenge for every type of people in

relation to the facts on that same thing

see for me the dialectic perspective on

this question of modernity at the full

history since let's say possible 800

something is this iron II of the

relationship between the modern the

present and the past within this scheme

of a linear historical chronology zation

right the prejudice is that Africa is

merely lesser advanced and before Africa

is Asia was less reflect and before Asia

Russia was less really before that Asia

Germany was lesser offense you know what

I mean whoa but the irony of modernity

has always been that what is perceived

as their less advanced vestige of the

past and in this African context would

be the lesser developed forms of

conflict and warfare their lesser

developed social formations as long as

one actually represent a fundamental

aspect of being that has merely been

forgotten and neglected after this

singularity we call modernity and a very

concrete example of this as which you

mentioned which is very interesting is

how today right now at 2020 let's say

the 21st century as such you have this

new question called the relation between

state and civil society right how how

many admittedly reactionary theories but

also futuristic type of use with this

new significance of Singapore private

governance private cities and also smart

cities in general if you of merely one

universal polity for

is diminishing and what is entering in

the horizon really is this this treaty

of spaces specifically states sorry

city states policies as almost places

not what you dwell in as your eternal

home but its places which you dwell in

as a kind of almost kind of choice where

that if you have a problem right you

just leave and go to another almost like

a market you know what I mean and what

you mentioned about Africa is very

interesting because I think you know

it's so ironic because these fear is of

the private governance they tend to be

reactionary who subscribe to ridiculous

pseudo scientific rate races racial is

to kind of use toward African and yet

the apogee the apogee of their the

concrete realization of what they see as

the future is I think going to be

realizing Africa I think Africa will be

the site of let's say we're a thousand

Singapore's I think I think you may be

right about that

I think in Chinese colonies over the

boom sure that but yeah eventually

eventually an african state of that sort

did i think i even discuss that with

Ethan at one point where I was telling

him that if this man Africanism classic

will probably just start off as one

country that it's just really well off

and that is practicing itself and then

go on from there so I think

privatization was definitely the way for

me

don't say believe yeah I mean I mean

already there are cities that are being

planned in Nigeria in weave in Senegal

here they're of course Chinese LED

investments initiatives and so on but

this is part of the dialectic of history

doesn't I don't think it means Africa

will be devoured by China I think China

is inadvertently

laying the basis for this rise of Africa

in Italy in a way that it's not prepared

for planning for but which will irony of

history so to speak but it's a very

optimistic view that the same and that's

in the last instance my view is always

optimistic that's what one man's

optimism is also another man's pessimism

right hmm but yes the African view

toward this question of polity which

also comes to this conflict civil war is

different from the West and maybe the

rest of the world but the arrogant

assumption that this is merely a

backward leftover of the past I think as

we see in America as we see him Europe

and the rest of the world whoever

subscribes this you will eat their words

because in fact it's a challenge Africa

exposing internally for the rest of the

world Africa merely reveals an aspect

about all of us we just forgot about but

which is becoming increasingly relevant

especially in the US which as you know

is the big headline in the u.s. is this

irresolvable deadlocked of local

conflict I will agree with you there

we've seen a male in America's case I

think it's just this is the case of

words Dogma essentially being defiled by

reality on a daily basis yeah it's just

mostly everyday and it's it's more

apparent on the internet but it's just

and it's really Americans but the

biggest struggle of Americans have much

like Americans and their own mentality

of being able to deal with the fact that

everything that they

most of it consumption is a lie which is

not which is not unique in the sense

that you know all the states file tend

to be formed on a little bit of lies mix

snow mix trees but Americans there are

so high off the American trail and it's

crazy yeah it's amazing

sorry yeah I mean I look at the index

like I said earlier you by which I

interpret recent events is this

self-employed and psychosis and

degradation and decadence of America

it's like the fall a dramatic kind of

fall of Rome of Babylon that's going on

and Trump looks like mirrors yeah yeah

guys nothing to it you know but also

another big site of critique for us is

in addition to Trump its it they lately

white left in America is supposedly

radical left in the US it's also we also

see this is also a symptom of the

decadence of the regeneration so to

speak of the Empire I wonder have you

had any experience or if there's anyone

in the chat who has come into contact I

talked to him about this with I said an

anarchist but actually when I watched

this video again he isn't actually a

libertarian and their views I don't know

if anyone's have delved into that spoken

to to win with that particular point of

view but just their approach to the

situation what person in particular is

very interested because essentially in

response to all these black lives matter

protests and calls to defund the police

one particular material said that well I

don't agree with you guys

only because what you're talking about

is still parties what I am not agreeing

with the sense that you

still represent the state and the state

for me represents compression so I want

to know if anyone has ever dealt with

that or how do you feel like that is all

that fits into well I think we've

discussed these kinds of things

extensively with anarchism and

libertarians right the way I view it is

I view it as a kind of distraction I

knew it as a distraction because I think

and especially this is relevant toward

the question of Africa I think these

types of anarchist or libertarians I

think they impose an impossible witness

test for example I think there's a call

in black to the US for self community

please they want to be able to have

control over their own communities the

core self-determination on autonomy yeah

and then with African I sorry

anarchist promise that's not a Freudian

slip but anarchists because they all can

mostly tend to be white they will come

and they will say no this is still this

is still and then we've got the question

of Africa we've discussed this a lot

kind of want experience the economy

stuff a little bit later but to bring it

up I think there I don't see how African

peoples can have a future if they don't

and they do obviously you have some kind

of ambition to develop themselves

industrialize themselves right acquire

independent economic basis but that's

anarchists in America and so I will say

no you can't do this

right you should you should leave it so

that Africa is just beautiful landscapes

with all these kind of animals and

people still maybe can't feed themselves

have shelter we don't here will give

them charity and feel good about

ourselves you know anybody sir yes it's

it's yeah essentially I don't think

that's something that fits in our

context well there are a lot of things

tomorrow

itself is something badness a democracy

as it is sold in the Western world in

itself also does not apply very easily

after the conference yes and I will give

it to them on that type what I would say

is that definitely to ruin you in terms

of economic institutions that is

definitely employed where Africans have

to manage to get on the same page but I

think that's the that's the point where

I think China's presence may be able to

facilitate that because of their style

of colonization just calls for his

family their style of colonization may

be more conducive to them as long as

they're able to get cutting through the

slime but yeah that is something that is

left to be determined by this combat

human be boy the winner of this content

by these things taking place yeah

I mean one of the archive heard

arguments from Africans about China

which is that China is essentially

economically colonizing Africa there's

no way to beat around that much but at

the same time it's not a political

colonization right they're not coming

with armies and baiting people and

imposing their order on people so that

all that gives Africans a much better

place to start so this week then what

they call that

Washington Consensus which is direct

cohesive political definitely definitely

and psychologically as well after the

state because there's no such thing as

Chinese Jesus so there's there's no way

to get in there because that's that's

awesome big issue right yeah the Chinese

don't seem to be interested in

controlling Africans they very pragmatic

about they're angry they want African

resources and in exchange they're

willing to help build infrastructure

exactly and in this case I think

ethiopia ethiopians of

they're really interesting examples

because I think this is where China is

most present and it's also giving rise

to an interesting kind of symbiosis

right Ethiopia has a growing not only is

it a growing tech culture from African

startups with the manner to what they're

looking at specific events what

solutions to what problems will be I

think in a sense is almost more advanced

than currently in the West in terms of

how they perceived like sorry I kind of

rambling right now a concrete example of

is I think would be this how to get how

to how sorry not distributed it cell

because this is economics right

affordable cell phones right this was a

thing earlier before the internet stuff

and now smartphones and so on and so on

another thing about this kind of topical

what I called or someone else it's

called a time bar our ko modernism right

you know China doesn't have any what are

they called the telephones the like I

came in the u.s. in Europe they had

telephone lines right what are they

called

yeah this is yeah yeah okay yeah yeah

China has none of those right because

China immediately jumped to cell phones

so this kinds of leaps are taking place

in Africa right now not only in terms of

infrastructure of continent but also

maybe paradigms with technology the

biggest example of this I don't think

this is the best time to plug this in is

and how you Africans buy and sell things

in many other countries through their

smarts and this is the projected future

for America facebook wants to do what is

already commonplace in Africa small

vendors selling through apps like

the reason I wanted the thing I wanted

to get into was cryptic words because I

think that is also the central site of

this new currency war that will be

waiting could be us in China or crypto

Wars it is I feel want to be Africa

primarily Africa but the current

sequence I want to the currency question

I think we can really get a lot out of

here because we can talk about the

Qaddafi plan of gold dinars right we can

talk about the CFA franc in West Africa

so currency politics I think has a lot

huge and monumental significance for the

end of the content but I am using the

back you up in terms of that I'm start

with the CFO falsified we have here in

West and Central Africa it is

essentially it is the people's parasitic

form of of all the currents I've ever

seen essentially think of France as just

a giant vampire boarding is just

something that the blood of partisans

Western Central Asian countries and that

is really what they've done again you'd

find it it is not something that is here

she wore invincible in the sense because

North African countries were able to

rhythms us Tunisia Algeria all of them

soon as they got independence first

thing they did was questioned the the

currency and actually rid themselves of

all of the former French colonies

Madagascar is well this woman just

recently found little shop 1972 they

said why buy into the circle and the

accident took this took the time to go

to a

they had a transitional model before

they got to the area which is what they

are using today so it is it is

definitely a journeyman step that that

applicants will have to take many into

into the future but I think that the

quicker the out that cook occurs it

gives us is the fact that we can head

into cryptocurrency quickly that are

technology based that is going quite

considerable at this time could be

constants assumes like a logical next

step if we start to invest that because

really we invest in cryptocurrency it's

no way for them to reach stop us Qadhafi

is one example of him trying to play the

game according to their rooms and them

just essentially just swiping the chest

without the table was thinking of gun in

your face like okay you know what I'm

saying yeah the rest sorry yeah the

friends president said that before get

off his collapse and I'm not a huge bit

out in fan but he said that Gadhafi

proposal for the gold dinar was a threat

was an existential threat to the

financial security of mankind when

trench exactly that's all humankind you

know I think yeah I would be interested

to know exactly because my biggest

question that cryptocurrencies lap say

I'm not his first point I just I'm just

really really preaching to it and really

it requires high IT knowledge to get

into and when I hear I've seen and I

think that after they are good for that

it's not exactly a conflict there but

what would you say is the point where

Africans can really take the

cryptocurrency to the next level what

would you say

besides the technological choice gives

us possibly do that well I think the

big story of crypto and blockchain is

what they call the proper blockchain

currencies is this decline of gold as

the basis of currency so we might see

since the end of the gold standard to

become political citizens especially

with the rise of the petro dollar to

arrangement by which gold can only be

sorry oil can only you sell soul of

dollars and also when Saddam started to

sell them in Euros that's when you know

he got over so so this is a story that

has been a long time in the making so to

speak so cool so with this decline of

objective so to speak non political

currency there's a there's a niche that

was always in need of being filled it

for very practical even I think

pragmatic reasons it is not efficient

for example for migrants travelling

across different countries different

currency with different denominations to

work right and then they have to go

through a lot of bullshit basically to

be able to send the money back home in

the correct currency and see there's all

these kinds of photos thanks by people

in tech big tech sees this as a big

leech to plug in their platforms like

Facebook to get people more and more

people using their platforms there's

that but then there's also the political

and financial instability that is

complet that fiat currencies right

there's the fact that currency politics

plays a big role in the various

disparities that which I mean as far as

trade is concerned between nations the

CPA Frank is more explicit but even when

it's not so explicit this problem of

fiat currency also in a vision helps to

give rise to

neo-colonial forms of domination so I

think the big appeal of cryptocurrency

is first of all it's less but also more

in a sense of political less political

in the sense that

gives some kind of measure to an

objective formal value price it cannot

simply be manipulated cryptocurrency the

whole point of blockchain is basically

that it's based on consensus actually

you really don't ever own the ponies

those blockchain currency coins which

you own is a ledger which says you have

sewn stone quarries in this ledger in

order to be in order to be connected to

the network the blockchain network has

to has to be validated by confirming

every other transaction that came before

it but that makes it okay yeah so your

ledger so to speak contains every single

transaction that came before it and that

did sum total of this takes the form of

a special I'm watching it a lot I'm

really watching a lot but it takes the

form of a a realm where is it called and

what is this special code but it's like

a product of prime numbers the way a

product of kind numbers of two big prime

numbers no but just find them there's a

word it's a scythe it's a cryptographic

key or something they call it right yeah

there's a 2 in crib yeah and and this

sum total this up describing Bitcoin I

know there's some total of all the

computers that are on this network need

to use their computational power in

order to decipher this key so the

network sorry I'm kind of rambling on at

this point the main moment for I think

the African context is that it's a

currency which is similar to gold in the

sense that it cannot be subject to the

political manipulation that Fiat is but

also it is also more political in a

sense because

a cripple needs to be on a certain

platform certain kinds of crypto need to

be used and which ones will be used I

think is the site of the political

aspect but insofar as crypto is used

they can't be manipulated in the same

way be honest so right and that's one of

the reasons that many many countries and

Africa due to currency manipulation

that's the reason that they've turned

largely to Bitcoin but of course other

points in cryptocurrency but Bitcoin by

and large what is being invested in and

traded I don't know it's called with

their own thing that the US and response

is going to want to allow Facebook

Lieber to do wrong you know something

interesting too I don't know if

anybody's paid attention to this but

Americans in particulate trying it back

to I guess private cities as well as you

know laying the foundation I don't think

we should disregard or you know take for

granted those Africans in America

repatriating and the in the influence

that they'll have on the African

Renaissance for example in Senegal we

had the rapper Akon write a count is

repatriated back to Senegal and now

heads going back to the private city is

establishing his own City Akon City and

in that city he will be establishing

what's called the a coin and then it's a

complete cryptocurrency based economy so

something interesting to pay attention

but again yes we can't take for granted

those Africans throughout the Diaspora

who choose and are welcome to repatriate

the continent how they will influence

the rise of other Africa and the earth

if you think it's a sister city all it

takes is one private success in private

citizen

hopefully follow that trade I really

chose to become I hope is able to it's

definitely going to be a hurdle what if

he pushes here and he gets the round

backers I know the Chinese involved I

think they are close to co-sponsor

namely the so they would take their

investment I'm very much excited to see

China

yeah I don't know I just have this image

kind of loaded down with Terry ain't in

Africa is when a civil penalty like that

would be the same today I see then I

think it's gonna be yeah the imagery

from inside yeah you know yeah I think I

think in general being a kind of

excitement for an industrial future for

Africa African nations is something that

is not really shared by what's real of

these you know I think Western Leptis

would prefer that Africans remain

without access to the same things that

they're able to take for granted because

they have this kind of aesthetic of

applicants as one with nature for

exactly they see this as somehow while I

for example be totally taking for

granted the fruits of modern industrial

society it seems to me that one of the

forms future forms of US imperialism we

can anticipate is attempting to stifle

the development of Africa in the name

that is pseudo ecologist a geologist

what do you think mother

why will you say smell apologist are you

because I'm hearing two things young

hearing still that paternalistic view of

Africa the consulate it would be able to

doesn't have either social technological

capacity to be able to handle certain

certain evolution or used to be more in

terms of environment in terms of

renewable energy sources which one I'm

speaking more in terms of that we're

Africans to do this forget about the

kind of racist racist kind of prejudices

which say they can't even let's say they

could I think they will eventually I

think one of the forms of Western I

think Europe already kind of does this

with Western imperialism will take the

form of this kind of conservation isn't

that Africans have no right to develop

themselves because the Europeans

Americans will see it as a threat to

nature in the yeah yeah and the

proximity that Africans have to me like

this pure natural sort of ontology and

another form of this sorry I wanna but

other form of this racism I notice is

that you know it's a shame the phenomena

is a shame but there are many poachers

in who need to feed their families right

they don't have jobs so how are you

going to feed your families human beings

right but then Westerners there's all

sorts of really dirty histories all

these agencies conservation agency

sought want to crucify these people deny

them any kind of humanity attending

Western audiences do not see these

people as human they see them their

lives is worth less that means

admittedly very beautiful animals but

when it comes to you know you have to

feed your family I definitely understand

possibly the extent to which the idea

image

it's also a bit slightly incentives that

a lot of cultures that come from in fact

let's do this as oh yeah but I think

definitely there is some credence to the

fact that that is an idea that may be

imposed on Africans that if you develop

too fast the wrong environment and

you're one of the last messages a kind

of natural landscaping for Humanity and

that they should preserve when I think

that it's double edged Norton says that

it does be Ruth you have to choose to be

correct development path and I think

that's where certain back of it that

cultural identity that study cultures

values I always give the example of the

constructions of houses in Africa the

material that every news do we really

need to be using those materials are we

using cement because the best thing that

we could possibly use or are we using it

because Europeans isn't the understand

yes it does it not even with maybe

change build we are ladies living

Africans in the past then if then is

apartments that he can run to the future

and just haven't just changing the

material in the way the architectural

design of the buildings can change

completely the school as far as energy

is concerned using cool air engine not

using as much air conditioner because

your your your place would just be

naturally cool so on and so forth

it can those are things that can't be

done if the research is put into that so

it isn't sense in the sense where they

refer to Sankofa by Evan where you

aren't looking in the past but you are

still in moving forward I think that's

very important concept where

we have to go back into the culture look

at that really dig towards to what is

essentially what is justice claim on to

the essential forward and meet new

obstacles and using new tools to be yeah

the the housing is really interesting

reminds me of how in many places in Asia

they use bamboo scaffolding you know two

old concrete buildings is really big

guys great but no I completely agree

with you it their needs you cannot have

a one-sided approach you know what I

mean in even and I think in Asia they

have a much more dynamic approach to

this question of ecology annihilating

the conditions of your own existence to

do with us realization China has a much

more dynamic approach than Europe the

u.s. marshalls matter

meanwhile the Europe in the u.s. I don't

think they have this dynamism I think

they have a one-sided approach where

they see the future or the modern and

the past is fundamentally irreconcilable

and many ecologists full societies of

the bond that we must completely returns

in nature and completely eliminate

modern technologies right thing from an

African perspective you can Craig never

a lot I think it's more that not only

are they compatible but the past also

gives me ground to what we consider the

most interesting horizon of technology

in other words he even is more

futuristic because of this welcome the

past is one must remember without the

past a few there's no such thing as a

vision of the future future is presented

the same way and the same thing so this

is wealth of particularity of practices

and also paradigms from the past in

these many hundred countries is the very

raw materials by which the teacher can

be realized right so I think an approach

to industrialization on terms different

both from Europe and even probably

different from Asia it's definitely

something I would expect but I just

meant to point out that

I think ecologist ik ideologies in the

West I see those in the future as being

used to stifle the growth and

development of African nations even on

their own unique terms I can see it's

zag so right on the base did working

fossil is it correct yes I think Wow

yeah I wanted to ask about Thomas

Sankara like what is his legacy around

the boot kunafa so people would give us

a picture shot of the barbershop

t-shirts everywhere he needs Africa's

very well

Giavanna insolence Bush and his impact

is really soon in fact in this is

culturally fortune that book left

awesome hands in the sense that

translates to writers usually heavy

emphasis integrity to the function that

is cab members came that is culturally

insensitive in the past and had its

roots in the past two months our current

although somehow in a socialist way was

able to get back to that and mind of

looking at something from that cultural

heritage so you'll find with you people

there is a cold it is not because that

Oh mostly professionals beats to have

words but there is running code that

respects integrity so although I might

say the movies there's no crime there is

a tendency towards constant agency I'll

just give an example or you could go to

the gym and there's you could leave

something in there and two three weeks

later you can come back and that thing

later that day that's a rarity there it

it's not exactly sure I'm saying leaving

it there just we just anywhere in there

and then you have to collect with new

stuff in a country that does not have

resources because in abolition same so

the Central African world do you expect

that people would be more ancients to

get their hands on tools but there is

that cultural trial that stops them from

doing that push them to lose integrity

and told my son Kile essentially

represents that push that is what's

giving them that reminding them that we

like it and pushing them in that

direction as well as of course this the

the humanity activating also because no

key no fossil is in fact a name that is

made of two different languages in

public universities Georgina is part of

a certain dialect fossil time one that

took them together and that is to tell

you mister the tribal context that that

all we need just puts to rest by giving

that name to everyone in that process so

the majority in that process resulted

that is awesome greatly mourned

contribution to so that is

[Music]

the state or the figure that is the

people who essentially reminded that we

we are greater than we are as a society

maintain these quotes detect the source

of the the name but cannot be for the

people of breaking up us and of the is

man or woman include and includes the

people of Burkina Faso and the people

outside it yes yes oh it's Universal and

very making it speaking of them

Africanism you would say that being ka

seafoods not camel camel it was a song

from Cameroon inflection see camel name

and if you wanted to say female

using convenience now if you were to

take that apply to be do not be male and

book in abeyance definitely so I think

he punished on animate made that quick

adjustment so let me say that but it did

very very jesus linguistics to avoid

potential culture and it is there is

also another peculiar thing that I have

to point out here where as you know

slave culture in Catholicism prevalent

and nearly

essentially lose that and they take it

and he kind of slipped there is

something called physically how to

translate that in English but

essentially you'll find me if a person

is has certainly and a certain person

has nothing safe which level and solid

let's say that during the certain time

of the past

the people from the salad conquer the

meeting of the genders they will say

well you're my sleep a night game I was

once a volunteer wisely and they kind of

use that as a not as informative calling

themselves slaves when that's on the

saying that all that history being

finished we are close and it's funny how

they just used that to action force as

opposed to something that could be very

divisive shame I say am I not like

turnout as well so it's definitely

definitely something you need practice

[Music]

continuing with the question still on

the legacy and Sankara a major project

that he had Dryden's his administration

was women's liberation project so I was

just curious and we see that so even

with the main as you had just pointed

out but I was curious what what's been

the legacy of the women's liberation

struggle in Burkina Faso

hosted assassination included well which

the reserves here is essentially the

different roles that are played by a lot

more dead moose in West Africa Central

Africa think maybe just Africa to a

certain communities you will find here

that they are females occupying jobs

truck drivers

security guards a lot of rules that you

are not usually accustomed seen and as

far as the government as well he is a

very high will it be involved in looking

at the government and government affairs

women's rights is Lauren joking matter

in this country as well so I think that

is the impact had essentially empowering

that will again it is somehow culture

because the founding myth of looking at

fashion one predominant tribe really

looking at us with emotion they are

funding it was based off a princess

princess women so when she is

essentially founded model of her son is

the founding father of booking a father

when matter matrilineal weeks actually

point more to her and give her a lot

more credit than natural sudden filed

became lean so especially in a way again

towards authorized empowerment of one

fact he returned to to african culture

working theatre so that is that is the

world essentially you will find

occupying a lot more spaces that are

traditionally held in my men and they do

some of these

is there a stigma yes well you cannot be

in the world that is westernizing have

not had that streamline even within the

African world there is a limited stigma

that sense is still there because women

have physical things that people who are

look at least assumptions on the

physical the opponents with that but

essentially in terms of policy in terms

of cultural norms the woman has no

limits

she is important and essentially they

are they are ready for a female

president at any moment so is this all

just like essentially Sankara still

remembered or is he a popular figure

among common people or a sophistries

legacy which is he laid the foundation

for it and then he's forgotten by many

people

she is not forgot told her he's he's

like Molly she talked cannot you're not

allowed to forgive him confess yes as

you pointed out you know people have

portraits of them in stores you know

[Music]

they may have it does put we did that I

would be and he said I I kid

yeah I guess I don't turn to a cessation

Wow George Washington he like maybe

stolen even like that reminds me a lot

of Stalin was scouring all this progress

and still today he's even by the

reaction airs they worship Him or

remember him to a certain extent but in

immediate after that he was he had no

like legacy in this already like that

was official ways but I was curious so

in Burkina Faso II would you say it's a

primarily rural or primarily urban

country Oh fine and what is what is the

house that I plates the agricultural

unit so to speak the most base

agricultural unit us a like

is it a small-scale family intensive

agriculture as many other countries or

big landowners there is an element of

the small scale but you have to remember

vocalizes dissension in the Sahel so the

farming is not very much family they are

regions on the please look at map for

King Faisal you'll find it's mostly

it's that colors and and then just

little green weeks

what's of the primary industry of

Burkina Faso then like what did they

produce so that is essentially the are

rumors of oil but there has been a lot

of efforts to keep that under wraps

because the kind of attention that it

attracts I think they kind of felt that

because that attention is all in kind of

feared as far as terrorist attacks it's

like but yes it is it is essentially the

country that the individual presence

here is the company I will call I was

trying to get some signs and you find

you go on just like occurred and you see

a bunch of NGOs you win this cross that

entity so it is very much I don't think

some kind of appreciative is very much

big in the gearing's of the welfare

state in the sense that they received a

lot of hate sending injuries so that

that is that is issues so especially in

the rural areas what is the primarily

sorry what is the primary means of

occupation for people what do you mean

in terms of jobs

well maybe not it can be jobs but also

just the general source of income you

know how are people getting by by and

large people are getting by essentially

by working with the government along the

government and small businesses while

people there is a push to

- giving some citizens because that is

seen as the concession the most viable

option on private entities

most of the that coming countries in

France there is unless saying not to

what it was drawn by the current

entrepreneurship even though that is

changing through the surely with this

latest among people I be able to see

that they can actually launch the world

businesses be a little bit more

independent and I've done as I said they

were be Catholic by that magnificent

they got four G two years ago so narrow

attention the situation that violence

also along but I suspected as that

changes they will begin to see their

things wild wash and sensation right now

citizens

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and in that sense certainly the way that

we where most people are allowed to go

so if they're not powering up at the

embassies trying to get them to make it

even though can I be really love their

country so no matter how it won't stay

for long the illusion come back would

you say there's a lot of demographic for

the primarily situation of demographic

mobility for the countryside but people

living in the villages but then you have

a provider who leaves and procures the

main source of income work if they're

trying to get into government service I

imagine it's relatively isolated

villages what is the primary things they

do basically after acquiring youssef

jobs um I would say the primary thing

that you've done it's it's mostly

handiwork it's mostly handiwork on what

I've seen

the vast majority of the pollination is

his index for bicycles like there is a

tentative little class but if you're in

the countryside you're mainly occupied

with farming and then you move into the

city because your path complications

don't have a qualification then you're

moving into the city living house and

you're going to those different jobs so

that is the section structure and how it

takes place so really there is I trying

to think of this majority job people I

haven't and I couldn't tell you off the

top most people have a good time I've

talked about it but I know that

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education is not

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investments have not didn't mean too

much in that damage education

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interference doing that you're finding

campuses on education is not very hot so

a lot of people will skip education

Maalik one people will get into

education and if they get in the

straight to bachelors clip their masters

and it wants to be with their masters

they can come to you and so you see

that's that's kind of like garbage job

or googling worst outside and

essentially leave and come back holidays

in many states the primary source of

revenue for the government is those

extractive industries be it oil or you

mentioned gold and there's also a cotton

industry would you say Burkina Faso is

the same the government the primary

means of revenue for the government is

these kinds of base

materials minerals which they then find

ways of dividing I would say instead and

also consider a lot of loans that they

take from where where are the loans

chiefly coming I know it's a CPA

Zorin country so these are probably the

Central Bank of France right Central

Bank the IMF so that borrowing is a big

issue

yeah even get one thing from those

institutions it kind of puts the country

situation dead further down on line but

that is where it's coming from

but essentially yes it is extracted and

is Burkina Faso I know you may be

difficult to know is it on the map of

where China's belt and Road initiative

Aventine so what is a what kinds of

infrastructure are the Chinese investing

in it and building or mostly in mind

that there is a unhold tracks that were

here that seen anyone talk of any

construction but I think I know that who

care was definitely the spirit because

my lunch certain in African to be

focused they go far list and finish

early and so it would have to be within

booking a spa student and she's like

modern just can't can't describe

the influence the Chinese population

here in this place is not consistent in

the presidency since over the past few

years I'm not sure where it when it

began I think there was some degree of

civil rest across West Africa primarily

in protest of the arrangement with

France and the influence of France and

also the various corrupt governments was

that felt in Burkina Faso - yes words

say the enemy was not so much friend

because Institute was too big movements

that took place which one is this

collective movement which facilities who

knows but it is still debated as to what

to do how to perform and the fact that

it is in fact any trend

meetings in exchange essentially stopped

two countries for being able to operate

as a small state and so that discussion

was being an African country before and

against so that was that now getting

specific to looking of possible what he

had at least 2017 but

2016 was a a sort of cool that took

place not include essentially the ruler

lands the depth of some kind was

constant Bible it was a sleighing 20

operation any external forces will not

involve this plasma because blaze would

generally at me as to perfection of

man's arm

what it was was just be popularized a

discontentment with his room

similarly and his his his family's the

nepotism on went to exist 2018 yes

when it started it was something I

started to 16 and then by the time got

to standard for 2016 action

it bought 2016 and 2017 with the Houston

plans and installment of essentially a

political party with which of course has

a lot of the members from but

nonetheless has a new and so essentially

that is what took place but I have to

say that there was a great facilitator

or in person who we do facilitated that

transition and he passed soon as I had

my October 20 high ride to you pass the

agenda and after that happened we have

someone who's in place was put us

president in his ascension a businessman

something was always an appointee

whistle category we're still cracked the

credit class enforceable and in the

cessation businessman he is not a master

politician and moist and envisioning

they should perform so they are not to

deal with that issue but officially

those were the two movements during the

realization of the beginning of

discussion which culminated with the

African Union banding together in charge

of creating the current known as the

co-occurrence romantic him sprinkle

columns into basically different

currency

and then the French co-opted that is

wrong so that's it's an ongoing it's not

natural so I heard about that the Eco

I'm not too familiar with the details

surrounding it but I did hear that it

essentially was and it it became an

extension of the CPA Frank

exactly yeah I have sorry I was indeed

want to say something yeah long as I

hadn't realized I wasn't I was muted um

but I understand is the distinction

between the two is with the CFA not only

is it peg to the franken year-old but

half of the reserves are kept in the

French Treasury with the ego on the

other hand or still tagged the reserves

are no longer in the French Treasury but

other than that so I mean did you get

this quote-unquote stable currency with

low inflation um but discourages

industrialization so you can't really as

you would say that it would towards

development

yeah and pegged to the French currency

automatically means French industrial

edge imports of French goods as opposed

to the cultivation of domestic industry

that's the whole reason why France

demands his control of the currencies of

West Africa it wants its industries its

exports to continue but I have a

hypothesis that I'm interested in

hearing your user studying the protests

in Africa even before 2018 I came to the

conclusion that this recent spout into

especially in Sudan is a similar

situation in Sudan to my knowledge you

had a trend he had this kind of

transition led by the military general

after the people overthrew the sharp

Bashir I'm sorry i hypothesized that

much of the civil unrest we've witnessed

in 2018 and 2019 but brent yellow vests

to further historically somehow

mainly in Africa because the protests

can be similar in essence as far as the

relation to civil society how they've

originated and spread on this one social

media it seems to me like inadvertently

it's almost like it's though it doesn't

get much attention we advance political

events that are happening across

specifically West Africa but across

Africa are almost like seismic

undercurrents right there they're not

immediately clear at first how they will

eventually culminate in these explosions

you see elsewhere but it seems to me

that historically at least not directly

in a causal way but historically what

we're seeing

not so much originates but it starts

first it to reveal the first in Africa

if that makes sense these revolutionary

changes in the civil society what do you

think about that I think it's possible

because indeed if at any moment there is

a shift in the balance of time it is it

is perceivable then Africa will feel

differently because Africa is such a

chance point content there they are many

pieces claim external forces and when

they move north of generalship the

African population makes feeling perhaps

farther in certain instances and react

to and what remains what this seemed

especially by no other country countries

outside that is most of those explosions

was reactions some of them contrived

others are just as I said with looking

at fossil just kind of took on its own

natural that the country's kind of was

getting rid of as opposed to between

baby buying first I do really that mean

everybody's with supporting because

Africa generally will be affected by

issues that concern because of world

powers investments geopolitical plays

that we have in place in effort it is

it's also pegging off of this question

of the RKO modernism namely that

arrogantly Westerners see civil unrest

in Africa and see this as dis all as

just Africa you know is just simply

simple turbulence but you can look

closely you can see hints of the future

of their own countries is what I meant

to say I think this has actually played

out actual reality I think it's yeah

it's it's the way capitalism works it

works

fall of Empires and have my turn but

essentially these I think what Kovac

main to kind of test it means you stayed

more capitalist the Masters of

capitalism okay how do you deal with

this how do you deal with this pending

and I believe that this is its kind of

looked at as became what happened you

guys usually get the front of us but

somehow this way we didn't each was hard

with what's going on that did yeah in

that sense there is an irony apparently

that the idea of Africa may not always

correspond to the situation and I think

that capitalism has this

psychical nature and people may say that

it is predictable but it could not

predict good

and it was not prepared and I think that

that in itself I'm not sure that right

now I'm not seeing here is people just

being there lectionary

lurking pushing for extreme on one end

or other but it really does have to stay

there okay where do we come from we were

just speaking during the bringing that

you didn't add campaign to conquer

redundant because of this new reality

and his face why capitalism I think that

these protests I was even speaking these

black lives matter protests protests all

over the world I don't think they're all

- linked to black lives matter I think

they're also a funnel to the chimney

discontent and just using this black

lives matter a solution that yeah that's

what we said was the case for a lot of

the white people in the u.s. we're

coming on to protest a lot of primarily

white communities even that had no black

people at all it's nice that show

solidarity of course but I think the

primary thrust was response to

coronavirus other changes responding to

it but it's interesting because

according to you mentioned capitalism's

on you know it's for me at least I view

capsule capitalism as in a sense not

totally but in a crime the previous

sense of modern the stroke that was

already obsolete a new China system as

having already pretty much prevailed at

movements superiority to the Western

cotton so I think in the applicant

contest top context and the Western

capitalism is as far as the future

oriented thinkers people who are

thinking about what must be you

I don't even think it's on the table for

western-style capitalism I think they

pee they are looking at the Chinese

model but also beyond the Chinese model

the same way that the Chinese model was

beyond the Western time but also there's

a theory

oh sorry there's one interpretation of

the theory of combine running

are you familiar with this theory of the

combine well yeah the basic thrust of it

is that there's never a pure capitalism

right capitalism is always intertwined

with other types of economic forms that

it kind of parasitizes off it

corresponds to it synergistically

relates to so you have that kind of

dynamic and one interpretation the one I

subscribe to which is that is that when

when it appears that somewhere is the

most backward where capitalism global

capitalism is on the frontier so to

speak of this past that is actually V

site of let's say contemporary history

history as it is actually unformed and I

think that's the case for Africa I think

Africa more than Asia is a site where

modern global capital confronts social

forms it is unable to fully assimilate

and that the synthesis or the encounter

on this basis is the only real cycle may

be truly purely contemporary history

unfolding whereas history that's

unfolding in America the world even Asia

he's not strictly contemporary history

it's a history that is carries the

inertia of the past distance only I

think in Africa we witness a real cycle

French contemporary which will have

implications in the same way that now

China it's revealed how China is having

the Western mythology in mind would have

said China is the past we're already

ahead of China but because of the unique

encounter between Chinese civilization

and modernity China who then was ahead

of the West if that wasn't

site of a fresh historical development

and the West was back to one who was in

the past

the same before China was Russia yes two

years annexing your optimism into that I

gotta say no such thing to hear from

someone and it's not enough to say it's

just it's very have that sense that I

can agree I really do it is something

that it's conceivable that is there is a

shift in paradigm shift in history a

paradigm shift that shift away from

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people and powerful personalities and

more two words powerful institutions and

principles and I think that that shift

once it is done will be able to

facilitate that because as I do I do see

where these changes that are currently

taking place the opportunity release I

believe that they will take this but I

believe that without being without

strong leaders Africans will not be able

to control the direction of a change and

that is my biggest concern because once

that we comes we have to be able to

direct it if not even wash a lot of a

lot of the identity the standing

structures that they are always that are

there and then even traced by something

that he's essentially the extra stable

just not possible and I think that is

the blind

that has to be walked by in an African

but I do lose that it it is as the past

me find myself

once again at the 480 meters long again

but I would just appreciate if I would I

would prefer that this time as it is

being cut that African leaders be able

to give their intimate and I think that

is that is that is that is the big my

biggest concern but I duty and I high

position no I can say yeah I'm glad you

brought that up because it's it's not

simply a passive fatalistic kind of

thing that's just gonna happen in

Africans are just gonna sit around and

wake up to what you know to a clearly

different circumstance there is a need

to as Mao Zedong said to seize the day

right because if one does not seize the

day there is always the threat of this

what they call in the Bolsheviks Martin

used to call liquidation is there's a

threat of modernity that it was simply

liquidate the entirety of the people in

the past and if history is on and

subsume lately this kind of horrific

uniform almost slavery right so I

completely understand where you're

coming from that this need to see

institutions they're there they're able

to back yes and and I also think social

media has opened up very interesting

possibilities and horizons as far as

that's concerned because the nature of

organization of the nature of

institutions building at the

dissemination of principles and the

manner by which people demonstrate their

loyalty to principles has completely

changed with this new digital age

cybernetic Gator call it this the

paradigm of the one strong lat it's kind

of great chain of being close type of

way is over right yeah so I think in the

African context it is already primed to

take advantage of the possibilities

given by given by social media that's

where Evan denies interest is also very

relevant to this in this notion of the

army right for us an army is not only a

violent force have guns and so you know

these kinds of things and army is also a

paradigm how is that collectives can

form around common causes principles oh

and not only kamikaze but also common

common points of unity so to speak yes

not simply in terms of the unity of a

principle or the unity of an idea but

also even the unity of a type of be

right a type of way of life a type of

maybe nation is something like that you

kind of follow up say with this place

isn't it I think that that army is

saying is something that is it is

progressive in the sense that if you

have that mental defectives then in kind

of those kind of Li the obsession with a

1 Peter because we know that those

factors are essentially the unifying

both of those combinations is common

[Music]

common threads that we have just worked

mad as opposed to obsession what we want

and that's that's just it again

so our meeting at that for me an

instance is definitely I think more more

positively can get more results yeah and

you know during the Chinese Cultural

Revolution there was a huge explosion of

the cult of personality about Sato

but it was also in its dialectic way

also because it was the end of the cult

of personality it was so intense because

it was the final black stamp in this

kind of way and the big achievement of

the Cultural Revolution actually the

point of view was this little red book

anyone can have this little red book

it's not just one here anyone can step

up and recite exploitations and their

vile equally participate politically in

this movement in my view is that it the

little red books that they had in this

close revolution only precipitated this

little right the smartphone I think in

Africa it is already that people will

will in time already if they're not

already be equipped with this kind of

little as the relation to the higher

movers or politicians or indeed the end

I think that that move is this it's

already taking place it will have to be

it will have to find me to safeguard

against manipulation because as you said

social media is a tool a powerful tool

but I'm sure the viewers now Trump's

campaign in how social is reliably given

the fluid will Balaji being kind of

utilize social media to the formal

suspect and Trump's is of course seen as

malicious because left

we just tend to see things well how you

can see that social media can be used in

the recent attacks those recent public

attacks that took place in South Africa

alone greatly out of proportion in the

same year at time I was there doing

three strikes of Xenophon before this so

there was one in 2005 it was one 2008

and they was one in 2016 and I was there

it's almost please and so when I was now

I'm here with my first witness is some

footage leaked and going viral it was

huge and it was these new headlines on

business that's over the food that's

pretty from 2007 to which I show them to

them as if it happened between you know

so if it is those kind of things in the

lab to safeguard against indeed I think

it will require a sort of there has to

be an African Facebook but that's what I

was going to say there has to be an

African Microsoft those things need to

take place in order for Africa to be

able to direct that weight that is that

is one company without that difficult to

stay because memory you are able to

change the once you're able to control

their treatment also change that

legislation at the floor so essentially

you have your own systems and they're

conducting analysis on where do we need

to be in the next 20 years and I don't

subscribe to the station linear in form

of lifestyles Theory all legal errands

just going one way in the sky

where I believe that Africa's condition

it it requires someone to look at me

after the landscape and sitting with us

after we need to know and how do we need

to navigate and it requires us to be

able yeah because but just one last

point just because if someone who is in

the forefront of this there's not take

into consideration the cultural and

social landscape of Africa they will run

into trouble as they already did let me

cut up the console I can articulate the

conciliation travel under yeah that's

why for me they struggle as anywhere

must be dual faceted yes what I mean by

that is that you on the one hand you

have this D central social media and all

this kind of stuff this is a little red

book right but at the same time this

also gives ground to the need of the new

tendency in striving toward

centralization because in order for this

to be possible what do you need

infrastructure right you need platforms

did you mention face spoken and with

this huge manipulations as you mentioned

with camera general it occurred the way

those work is that they compile people's

data harvest their data and then target

specific types of people and amplify

tendencies I think these are weapons

that could easily be used by the

revolutionaries as much as they're used

by the conquer revolutionaries at the

enemies and but this tendency in

striving towards centralization I think

the way I look at it is like this the

tendency towards centralization is a

tendency toward which is the state power

infrastructure all these kind of things

this is something that comes from the

rule it comes from the tradition the

past the culture the things mentioned

all these things that that are let's say

being right of African nations right

this is the see in the Russian

Revolution

if the slogan was the unity of the

workers and the peasants and I think

this division plays out in interesting

ways are elsewhere I think on the

peasant side of things there's a need to

centralize and need to have control they

need to preserve the tradition you need

to establish the identity people

establish not some of the status but

preserve the wisdom of the past that's

it

but on the other hand you have to

decentralize the tendency of the urban

and young people primarily the young

people who are looking toward the new

technologies and so on and so on and I

think these big the key to revolution to

me is the unity of both of these factors

when it becomes one-sided on the one

hand if it becomes one-sided on the

urban level then the urban

revolutionaries will inevitably turn

against the people in the conflict they

will become modern and then they will

attack the rural people for being

backward right this would usually happen

but then if the rural people neglect the

achievement of the modern enter the new

then it gives rise to cynicism gives

rise to lethargy there's a lack of

political initiative support for corrupt

strongmen and so on and so on so there's

a need to unify both of these elements

and I think the key to all revolution

and social change lies in this dialogue

proletariat and the pen I think I'll add

to that and I'm sure everyone would

agree a need for a renaissance they come

I think that that is something that is I

believe will facilitate that greatly

but get any country after any formal

Renaissance it takes only history

essentially and I think that that is

that something that means something yes

every Renaissance is is the

actualization by way of culture of this

dialectic that I mentioned you know and

one of the neglected Renaissance of

course the Western the history's will

deny and slander up distort but really

one of the Renaissance ins was in Russia

under the 30s under Stalin even because

you had this newfound significance of

the Russian peasants and Russian culture

that is flourishing of Russian

literature of books music ways of

thinking that were the non-western kind

China was is now experiencing or had

experienced a similar renaissance

especially culturally across the board

so I think these examples point to not

things to replicate mimic because we

were many mistakes but there are

paradigms of Renaissance I think an

African Renaissance would do good to

take seriously in addition to the

traditional Italian Renaissance with

sixteen fifteen centuries yes and there

have been points throughout African

liberation movements when that

Renaissance begins to emerge and that's

at times when they are most potent and

when the most achievements are are won

most victories are won for example in

the United States a lot with the Black

Power movement and what was going on

combining the Black Power movement will

it return to African cultural values we

saw great strides and African

communities within the United States

yeah I always say our problem the

biggest obstacle to a revolutionary

momentum of some kind in the u.s. it's

not a problem of masses the masses are

ready for evolution

it's not much of anything except we need

partisans we knew I called the partisan

is the one who is educated across the

board not only are they educated in

memorizing facts and so on but they're

also acquired what I like to call an

aesthetic which means a higher sense

they're in need to require a higher

sense from the fruits of literature the

fruit of art culture these kinds of

things this type of person this type of

part is it this is what we lack in

America if we had these types of people

you could do anything you could move

mountains you just need this type of

partisan because the partisan is one who

is neither only in heaven urban or only

rule and earth the partisan is the

synthesis of both in a sense which is

that they use the powers of the modern

they use the power of Education we use

the power of technology to excuse

develop is still and cultivate what is

in the rule what is it the people what

is in the past

they give voice to the people strive add

to the traditions culture and so on of

the people by using what traditionally

is opposed to the people which is this

kind of modern technology

things I was very well put I think that

was it it definitely people's happiness

to movement to thinking that way

thinking that for me to work towards

that toward Wednesday night the I

believe it is taking place but as you

say generations to come we will have to

carry on control it will definitely have

to carry on history I think what one of

the biggest things that I think would

have to underline that Renaissance would

be the education the educational system

that are in various African countries

that would have to have within them an

element a revolution an undercurrent but

without calling the revolution as of

course and in the Spence back and not

even because I see that a lot to be the

powerful centric community there is a

push there is a tendency to say our

issue as opposed to instead of saying

arrange Point Blank period and I believe

that as Africa especially in its

particular context Africa doesn't need

to compare themselves necessarily with

others as it was in fact the first where

humanity began so it just needs to state

its history and do it alone as a self

actualizing way not comparing itself to

others with them and they said I might

have such a where and also the

pan-african community will find itself

at odds trying to battle something out

right

and it's almost like trying to pull

punches and brick wall in the brick wall

means Western institutions Western

society and then you're trying to fight

them him instead of building yourself to

the point where now you should like to

build your own walls and they have to

kind of be there wouldn't finally what's

going on over there where I think that

is that that ship will take place and

education has to have all the code where

our textbooks have to speak in a way

that is self that to us

China if you look at the map of the

world in China China's of the similar

now Africa happens to be in the same

lines really play that game necessarily

but I just say that the mentality has to

be like that when Chinese a Chinese

educational system they don't use

European historians to affirm their own

history we do that's a big issue so I

think in the educational system under

current has to be there where it is just

you are forming your own Institute and

it's things we building opulent when I

get to research not excluding a mobile

solutions just putting your research

based on even their other people's

findings turn northland so that you can

just like to build a to rebuild your

identity and then once that is done

those processes that you highlight will

be a lot easier because will not come

with the true concept of its definition

where you take on this apply to a

particular context and so it hurts you

then you're trying to develop because

you're not taking the ten simulation the

console I know it feels like I'm

speaking of I keep going back to the

same concepts but that this is something

that I had as to something an

undercurrent as we needs to take place

then it is revolutionary point

don't label it evolution and I feel that

that is something that I don't know if

you notice that because I see that

there's a lot of and where the

revolution is coming there is a

sometimes a tendency to what to label

and such and I feel that we need to be a

lot more subtle you know yeah it's so

beautifully put what you said it's a

need to excuse the positive and

particularly rather than simply dwell in

in the perpetual communication and that

is precisely the stuff of Renaissance

Renaissance is not simply when you

declare war that's the energy but when

you cultivate a wealth of particularity

that is almost indifferent to the enemy

in a sense right it's your own thing

you're doing that is really the stuff of

Renaissance and in fact fighting again

what about to bring it back to the

history of the Bolshevism this is

precisely where that Stalin and Trotsky

diverged Trotsky was someone who wanted

the revolution or the Russian Revolution

to do well in his permanent negation his

permanent destruction of the old' but

Stalin in his notion of socialism in one

country viewed it as necessary to

cultivate in particular to not focus so

much on attacking the enemy in the

permanent revolution but let's actually

sit before what we have already and

develop an argument and so I I really

love the way you put it it described

this need to because I at first I

thought you meant just because it would

get you in trouble with the government

that you don't call yourself

revolutionary but nice even deeper point

today you've made one should not always

call themselves or focus on being

revolutionary because it reflects the

size of positive feet

and this is another way of presenting

this dichotomy of the urban in the rule

I mentioned by really the urban is

focused on the negative right the

construction was old in favor of the new

but the reaction was not just a negative

the rule also carries with it the wealth

and particularity of the past the rule

is on the side of positive people and

the four points of this dialectical

Renaissance is so that they heaven the

urban can use the weapon obligation not

to destroy the positive P which is

clarified to distill it and to discover

in it what is most fundamental less

useful

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definitely angry and thousand percent

would you say that's what that's with

the silences I know yeah I'm just trying

to think about what we can do I wanted

to bring up question like um how do you

see Germany's real role in Africa in

general like I have only a very vague

idea it's usually not a very big thing

in the news you just here in Germany

just hear something about Merkel doing

some flights to Africa to South Africa

as she was even in Burkina Faso I think

and but what's actually on the table

here what I can tell the journey I'm

sure the Lord verse 20 sure thing deny

[Music]

but I filled it as Germany has been

repeatedly cut off from any colonial

opportunites after the war Germany has

kind of had had to go to a paradigm

shift and looked England and essentially

the reason why early honestly

[Music]

bastard people is because Germany has

receivable alliance that countries like

France have on colonies they just don't

have it because they never they were not

given there they were stripping section

of their colonies and they had to

England solo from what I've seen of

Germans in Africa it it's involving

seems more diplomatic then than anything

else their economic interest I believe

we've relied certain companies so

companies mostly in schools I don't know

of too many transnational German

transnationals making big moves in

Africa I surely do have but I don't know

what I sound like

from what I've heard like there's this

thing called development help

essentially government your undeveloped

countries if I call it but from what

I've heard it usually goes to your

German companies whatever German

companies in Africa tax lien in some

things like that will happen but what I

would say is since I know that they

don't have the mines I don't know - as

much as seeing a country like France so

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they know they have no information

that's - makes a lot of sense yeah the

way I always look at Germany is that for

me Germany is where Europe in its

particularity begins right the United

Kingdom and France

head up to a certain point only to find

themselves in relation to the outside

world but only when we begin with

Germany does Europe begin to look inward

as you say discover itself in its

particularity but then there's also

there's also trouble when you go further

east or graduate Germany has colonial

ambitions in Slavic countries to this

day I think the European Union which is

centered in the German banks has this

kind of neo-colonial in relation to

Southern and Eastern Europe but I think

despite that it's still within Europe

you know Germany is not gonna sleep as

opposed to France you know Germany is

proved something internal to Europe but

at the same time

I wonder the extent and I wanted to

study it I just haven't had the time

what to what extent is the European

Union as a whole which is this kind of

at its essence a unity of franco

germanius would have liked to call it

the European Union it's the symbiosis of

Germany and France that actually goes

back to the Middle Ages if you want to

to what extent is it dependent upon

Frances colonial dependencies in West

Africa to what extent is the euro

sustained by this it's an interesting

question I always like to discover I

think it is this very likeness

particularly if you speak of the Europe

being something that is if France is

involved the more thing that France has

in the European and it's standing in the

booty

depends on that promise a far the

mission if they lose that they

essentially could see themselves become

a German colony next day you don't say

just

- yeah and uh sorry friends is the

independent industry would collapse it

just become an import and traditionally

the European Union was founded in that

way France began as simply consumers of

German exports and this actually this

relation is what gave rise to the France

is actually the one who pushed Germany

for the common currency in first place

for this reason Oh to help develop

French industry because it was lagging

behind the German so the French

basically said okay let's get married

we're kind of gonna force it on you so

we can develop our own industry but I

wonder to what extent the German banks

you know maybe they may not know how

depend upon this because from the

perspective of the German banks whether

it's in Greece or elsewhere they view

themselves as the benevolent once we're

helping you we don't need you we have

our own independent industry and I think

this is a kind of hypocrisy I think they

secretly rely upon this colonies so to

speak just in ways they don't know or

can acknowledge but we're kind of nice

my association my association by

association because we have there's

nothing I agree right exactly

I think but I think maybe maybe I mean

just maybe redone because I'm seeing as

from the French perspective that also

gives them standing so it's kind of

casually to where okay Germany would

like France to keep those offices that

they can continue to benefit off from

that but also if Germany France which

was promised they would live at the

worst German war children are now they

kind of are because of as you say Brazil

being thankful German but it would be a

little worse if if they were to lose

their confidence because if you look at

a lot of other convenience functions

they are not doing

really not and you know when Sarkozy

accused Gaddafi's plan of being an

existential threat to the financial

security of mankind you know he said

mankind we know what mankind means it

means the European charter of Human

Rights so he was probably talking about

correctly that it would lead to a

financial explosion in the European

Union as a whole which wouldn't affect

the friend sorry the German banks so I

think there is this kind of hypocrisy

that is at play by the German banks and

the German

ruling class that but they're doing a

very great job yeah but at the same but

this is whatever sorry just whatever we

talk with his full potential Germany

never comes yeah what I meant to say by

the same token there's a lot to be

admired about Germany you know there's a

lot to be admired about its export

economy and I know a lot of countries

look at that and they want to learn from

it you know so that you know this it's a

dual dual factor that I think as far as

the lessons of from Germany better to be

learned from open competition I kind of

want to ask personal I don't know take

us off from tangent no no no whatever

ask whatever I wanted to know if

internally I know that the topic of

Hitler his supposed it is the kind of

shit he pushed I information that has

told me that Hitler was in fact financed

by by private entities in the US

yep too young to be able to push this

war forward essentially got the u.s. to

lay his game but I've also heard that

Hitler was behind a certain ship then it

took place in Germany in terms of being

and I wanted to know if in Germany if

that's the case because if he was in

fact someone that was manipulative my

side is that with that because that

resolution generally from him was

actually the favor that led that must be

something else

I just working more explicit thoughts

really negative if I'm because I'm not

exactly sure sighs well it's - in some

changes but he was leading control those

changes contrived we need just to be

able to benefit his pains exactly the

benefits occur in the same way exactly

what's the case thing so my I know it

should be the one speaking but I just

want to say really quick my limited

knowledge of this is that Germany was an

experiment in a sense by the English and

American sections of the American ruling

class and the English elites they didn't

want themselves to go all the way like

that but they bankrolled Hitler because

they wanted to see what it would come to

so it's not necessary that they

controlled it but they in a sense they

indirectly did because they themselves

didn't have all their skin in the game

they just wanted to let but the main

thrust of their support for Hitler was

one the arms the war there's financial

interest in starting another war that's

an obvious one but I think the most

important one was that they wanted to

unleash the mad dog upon the Soviet

Union they wanted to destroy this member

of the Soviet Union but alleged to be

their main on second thought that's

basically it

yes yeah because you know Hitler's

theories it's very interesting because

they're not really German in character

the ideology of Nazism part of it is

obviously a big part of it is but many

of the ideas the racialism eugenics all

this stuff is coming from where

California it's coming from England

these are anglo-saxon dogmas that were

imported by the Germans they weren't so

the Germans always were more

metaphysical right they never had this

traditional vulgar scientific so-called

scientific reductionism that's something

that they got from the English so you

know there's a lot of ways of seeing

Nazis of as an extension of the

barbarism of anglo-saxon civilization

rather than just the German well because

it's interesting interesting point I was

referring to the economic aspect of it

and I was just curious if that was well

I should say it was part of an

experiment

I'm sure the economic basis economics

was actually kind of the focal point of

the experiment I guess you could say see

how he would take to machine info in

German yeah actually a legal businessmen

in the United States formed a big

scandal it was called the businessman

squad and they wanted to replicate Nazis

of economically and so on

in the United States and overthrow the

bender president FDR and the whole thing

was exposed by one of the high-ranking

military figures whose name was Smedley

Butler in the United States so they were

looking at Germany as also an economic

model can this allow us to become

profitable again to increase the rate of

profit and so on and but then also yes

the finances of the foreign banks

industrialists and existence was

indispensable to the rise of German

Nazis but then another thing too is that

German Nazism was also almost the kind

of startup investment because the whole

thing that had to pay off was the war so

they were financing arms and all of that

had to eventually pay off in the form of

at the world war so it was all it was

almost like it wasn't it never got to

the point of economic self-sufficiency s

I always say Hitler treated the

Europeans the way no he was truly

thought the rest of the world really was

at a certain point in time Sinfonia if I

just need something going - yeah I mean

you can also interpret Nazism because it

is on topic at the top of the

pan-africanism an autism was also a

response to this threat which was

epitomized by the Soviet Union but this

general threat of the collapse of the

colonial system the Germans wanted to

preserve they pretended they didn't want

to let the near the end of the war and

so on but in reality they wanted to what

Hitler himself said he wanted to split

the world with this threat of this

rising of the East Africa in a European

mine is also part of because the East

just means the other right so his run of

his rising room the non-european

was a big existential I'm not I'm

speaking in a non materialist way but

just to come to give some context right

this existential threat posed by the

rising of the non-western nations was a

big intentional entity not Susan not

Susan saw itself is defending the last

and the domination and for that reason

that's why he Hitler treated as you said

Europeans like Europeans treated all

because Hitler felt like the only way

you could sustain the European dominance

was to apply upon itself what it had

done

olives

just to rain it raineth I will also ask

Mexico what is really bleep political

landscape looking like there because as

an outside mother passed because which

here coming out here is mostly more

related to crime cartels that myself in

that well of course I have studied it is

sort of the the early period of all the

next bondage since since lap times and

stance independence I haven't really

kept too much up to date so I won't know

exactly what that looks like in both

terms in philosophy actually influence

what let me try to use the best of my

abilities of my tongue language I am

sorry you don't understand it well in

Mexico it's currently in a moment press

gently he was won the elections why

Andres Manuel lópez Obrador in a

movement that one system to tell her to

recuperate

Alastair let's say the magical it state

for the people it could be seen it was

under the modern movement that is in

Mexico receives the name of the quarter

bed for tea the fourth true

transformation it's valid because in

your nation

with us it was three historical

transformations independence the reform

that is were worried where the page in

version versus the repeated by the

gnetophytes and other conservatives and

and the intent of restoration of

monarchy the filter information was

there revolution and in this case he was

decorated in in this movement as the

port transformation formats and

basically is for a Malone trying to

eliminate all this kind of corruption SP

that's common of all the old elites in

Mexico really nationalized a lot of

industries it is not is not there is a

lot of things that what you talk about

what's happened in Africa that were in

general sense of what happens me in what

is the global South things that we have

in common

[Music]

precisely all this ecological is the

organizations in Mexico day early night

with their right because precisely one

of the central themes for this moment is

the nationalization of the oil and the

energy stay an electricity okay Nora

nationalism and obviously a they start

to use this ecological question to

attach these protections of of reviving

the formation of oil industry but in a

very opportunistic away

morality is stirring up a stream at the

end of they they are in the same line of

the international restive all

industries or the outside state product

is ecological industries that are also

it's dead for I'm like if there is a

question of a pilot induced ability

system de Velde rola here in Mexico a

ecological Spanish and there is a

question of trying to recreate this kind

of a steam electricity and generally on

the right that is with this is the

private industry Anastas this politicals

that is contract they do declare a state

that is a and an attack in the

ecological is the issue in Canada one is

only to disparage industries this how

this discourse of the collector is using

for example grain dish has disowned as

the issues against the government

I'll basically is to the political

control esteem it at 58 is the only

system trillion reborn of industry and

miss a common issue in a lot of

countries in Latin America because

potentially Mexico it's from Latin

America and you know it make me

remembers a lot of what you say of

fanatic honest with are all issues of

pan Latin Americans of Latin America

there's this is a common project that is

a way of the left's here in in Latin

America and was with over cherish Evo

Morales etc etc try to put with this

unity if even if we have a lot of

differences between us

we have a common history also the

Spaniard is the contest announcer

portala etcetera etcetera and also all

the interrelations of United States

under English etc etc could we also have

listed a common unity in our listing

defense would have a steel and the

engineers people or the black arts ish

ancestors the house to come here in

Latin America for one other parts of the

form of what is Latin America for

example in in Colombia there is this de

los Valentino's our estate

Pablo's town system townspeople's a that

is made for external black people and

escape and and e-trade his own language

his web loss in this and result this

common things are distinct from anatomy

that he came to unify ourselves

now since and in this is trying to

achieve or own mystic modernity or of

estate combination of commissions on all

community unity for this very intellect

on movement that is trying to in his

honesty since we did not missed on you

trying to create his own modernity from

the south from Latin America there is an

old face here a Latin America that is

the salt is or not Mesa common issue how

they put the continent of America in in

in inverse and Argentina is a lot of

not each station Kennedy's down yeah is

this is the common issues is they see

active movement political movement of

the people here in Mexico and in America

I mean special Mexico in Mexico is not

only the cartels we are is also this

struggle that is coming for the people

and also all direct and I should pose

there some kind of pathetic stay in

fighting left piece from the West Alec

would demand a alright with the right

and they continue use this I don't know

if it's in our general syndrome what

happened here in Mexico and Latin

America well potential a variety does I

think I was actually you answered all my

questions with so since when centric

will essentially if I can just sum up is

that there is now entering there's a new

face Mexico is entered where it's kind

of like that question of nationalization

and then there is a resistance to that

that they'll be included so I think that

is a the people specially like South

american-themed really and where there

is this the struggle to nationalize

those really against that so I think

that's thank you for answering that

question I don't see simply what they

speak a person have a lot of bushes be

able to speak well now that because when

I was able to get there I was able to

get the the idea of a pen Latin American

identity

interested

[Music]

I didn't get that it's a it's called the

Bolivarian is oh it was exclusive

etiology of the chavies right

Raul did you have any other questions

besides that one er no I think it's not

being covered because I think you took

notes or something but yeah it's all

related to what you've talked before oh

yeah so what time is it right now in

burkina faso it's it's about one a body

clock doesn't work in cozy Saints no the

same I go to bed at 5:00 a.m. you know

sometimes I wake up at 2:00 p.m. and it

startled I start my day at 3:00 a.m. so

I started to start point and answer

three phenomenal so you know right now

it's what it's about

oh it's actually midnight is no you

you've been there for three years

Burkina Faso yeah sad so how do we met

in Cameroon as result program because

volunteers they're capable to Kenyan

brain rules nap sleep

guarantee it's it's definitely tough

that I'm sure most struggles yeah but

it'sit's a tough about and Suzanne came

to spark conversation and couldn't found

out that he was also intellectually and

who won't do which the switch was great

fun to least also he was working

alongside with that company East

Foundation yeah yeah I mean came back

from Cameroon I'm sure with a really new

perspective I like you were telling me

about how you

[Music]

fuck what is the fucking place called

forgot the fucking City

Oh a grammar at the Grand Rapids yeah

yeah no completely different yeah and

it's same you say

Cameroon is not a easy place to get

along so you go anywhere else and you

know you're completely different you

gotta figure out okay how do I Grand

Rapids is kind of a soft place in

comparison to Cameroon which is you know

so you gotta you gotta learn how that

you gotta soften back up when you hear

talking that go when I came back home

come like ramble you know yeah yeah yeah

yeah so what you are you're from America

though about you from Texas

yes were your parents in the rinser is

an American Foundation raising yes all

my father he's from camp oh wow my

father key and amendment that's

interesting to really interest when you

find your way back not quite to Cameroon

right now but find your way back to the

others this is still me I kind of

thought I was born here so you didn't a

club in Cammie and then three-layered

South Africa now experience well I

realized if you think you're not really

able patriotism is funny yeah he just

it's funny this is fine yeah that's true

so when sorry

no no I've said just a small I'm sorry

because I'm not supposed to all the

crowd also went what Romania situation

is but I think good question than me

that's to answer so I have

rally was your name yeah so do you want

anything was specific or do you want

Romania situation like in European

geopolitics European your opponents okay

so we have a quite large migrant

population so most of our worker

population is most likely working

somewhere else in the European Union so

it's Germany or Italy or most likely

Spain and they go back and forth they

bring back some money and yeah this has

this is written in the crumbling

industry which has been neglected since

the fall of communism here so most of

the politicians here seem corrupt and

[Music]

the people have no reason to trust them

so they're basically in a deadlock where

they they go to other European European

countries to work or they just sit here

and rot basically that's pretty much in

the rural side of the of the country the

rural and it's an ageing country how

young people are not really but this

dynamic of migration is is mostly from

the south and and Eastern European

countries for the most central ones like

Germany

I think German is the best example do

you see do you foresee any current any

movements taking it gathering momentum I

think is quite funny because out of all

the European countries I've I've

actually looked at our seas mostly

aligned with the US so in a boat leaking

data will boot licking the US will would

I think everything else we're even

hating the liberal more liberal currents

from the European Union it's quite funny

why not we don't even have the liberal

tradition we've never had we try to we

try to break between the words to have

some but then we with could with could

quickly change to fascism so it didn't

last long and it's a deadlock they say

[Music]

I've actually talked about it with with

Raoul in particular I have a concept I

called polar communism he and the idea

is to mobilize these Radek pensioners

he's talking about in the countryside

and the old communist crumbling

infrastructure to relate to this site

with the new 21st century interface 10

smartphones all that kind of stuff

basically to unite these two like

basically basic idea is that communism

didn't really collapse still has these

leftovers and that this should be

reactivated with the new impulses

impedance reinvigoration but I like to

put it from the urban centers yes my

views optimistic so if it came off as

super semitic it's because some of our

more liberal intellectuals so they align

themselves with EU with the european

union

and they'd be completely opposed to what

the hill mentioned yeah like my idea is

that in these ex communist countries

liberalism is just the kind of vanity

the majority of the people are still

immersed in these leftover of the

communist legacy and that legacy needs

to be returned to liberalism is a fake

failed experiments pretty much you know

what they say is what applies to

contemporary liberalism we have a

balance that we balance here you gotta

have the guys like here's you guys have

to cast a class yeah and I'm because I'm

your skeptic myself two men I see good

things I came in enjoyment because my

brain just automatic supposed to break

down how it could possibly be people

yeah we need that balance I'm actually

curious did Romania fund with arms and

so on during the Cold War the African

liberation movements himself I know is

estranged from the Soviet bloc at a

certain point and aligned actually more

at the US I'm honestly honestly not sure

about it about this we've had some

really weird alliances in the code would

like alliance with with Chile with

peanuts Chile that was yeah that was

with I'm not sure

yeah known for its arms maybe it's the

collapse and we possibly pretty

important opportunistically with the US

so we've also been opposed we've had the

love-hate relationship with the USSR and

we've tried to play it friendly to the

west so we may have funded some shitty

movements Sheeran

[Music]

yeah that was there was before 89 after

that we've completely gone NATO and was

[Music]

threatening us

we did very much within experimental we

mean in a very country conditions even

she got the job himself had to get might

be from socialist to be able to finance

in his research which would explain some

of his political affiliations but yeah I

don't think it's I've always had that

relations between Africa particularly

Russia very fascinating you think of the

battle in the colonial era and how they

were able to board the Italian invasion

to party time division essentially with

help from a Swiss diplomat that worked

with the King Menelik and a supposedly

with Russia because they were both

Christians our seems to believe that's

the only reason that's the skeptic

indeed I believe there's another reason

perhaps but I cannot find evidence for

any economic interest but why she would

have in Ethiopia well the day when I

made a resurgence during the Derby has

to do thanks lesson was ousted

I was immediately replaced by communist

regime made in worsen wasn't like curry

but he does the same Russia's has been

there forever even before Congress

during that era the communism

much apart but it was during that during

that time Russians helped out pollutants

with our technicians as well as

instructors military instructors that

were able to train the militia and I'm

just always with mentioning that link

why that affinity is really just the

fact about Christians there something

else um the way I have interpreted is

that you also have in Russia fascinating

cases like Pushkin right the famous

literary author who is of African

descent and the African the person he

was descended from became a really

prominent figure in aristocracy that was

I think the reason is that Russia had an

alternative response to mother than

England that these two poles and Russia

found itself more having solidarity with

African nations because they also were

freshly exposed to this modern and

Russia did not have Russia has a kind

that had a competing vision of the

universal humanity even before communism

opposed to the English kind and in this

vision of the universal humanity there's

no room for not just racism but also the

specific idea of humanity that maybe

originated somewhere in Europe after the

Protestant Reformation which attributed

certain qualities to humanity and then

if people don't have these qualities

they're not human right it was kind of

modernistic view of humanity the russian

vision of humanity almost i would really

be but there's no way i could sum it up

without butchering it but the would

think the way I would put it is that it

views the wealth of the particularity of

humanity as the concrete manifestation

and realization of the universal it

doesn't view the particular as opposed

to the universal like the English so I

think I think

the this implicit solidarity of Russia

with the African nations specifically

reflected that I think it reflected the

fact that they didn't have this kind of

a priori racism toward the African

peoples and because of this some kind of

encounter fresh encounter of two very

different peoples and the nation's so on

was able to be established hold it's

very life especially in terms of broad

two weeks put it that way so we have a

connected world view as opposed to

distinct being able to separate things

that makes things possible yeah I mean

Russia the very idea of Russia is Russia

has always been a multi-ethnic and even

multi religious civilization it's never

been a simple one nation state like

England for example they what they call

the United Kingdom was an island so it

defined itself first against the whole

of Europe but Russia was from the very

beginning this is a really huge other

conversation but followed from the

Mongol invasion this kind of view of

quality statehood is something that is

beyond one privileged group something

that is saying you know I like to call

it to determinate universality it's not

an empty abstract universality that is

imposed upon the world but a determinant

specific

[Music]

also thank you well as far as my dogs

are concerned that I say I think we had

recovered everything no I think we

touched on it yeah but this was a really

fruitful discussion yeah that was

actually really interested sir yeah I'm

really grateful and really glad to have

had you had you on that it was with yeah

like I really interesting especially and

we can't come back on suited central

points yeah I mean yeah I'm so glad that

that evident was had the experience in

the first place to have come into

contact with you know so that we can we

could present this it's it's really rare

is what I'm trying to say like to have

perspectives like yours and also Evans

because Evans lived in camera for a

while be given in this kind of like