Haz vs Flaunsy | InfraredShow Debate

hey guys welcome to politically provoked

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oh god and i have my i have your name

with it too but whatever i'm your host

brittany i'm here with my co-host don

how are you i'm doing great brad how are

you we've had a bit of a rocky start but

we're we're getting it um yeah so we're

running a little bit late but we are all

here now we are going to be debating

so let's bring on our guest first up

let's bring on

flosney how are you

i'm doing well how are you doing

brittany and todd i'm good so yeah you

want to introduce yourself tell people

where you lie on the political spectrum

and where people can find you

i'm flossing you can find me on discord

uh floznie gg um i like to debate things

i am a liberal imperialist which will be

going into great detail tonight

hopefully and uh yeah i think that

everything else will come out in the

debate here

all righty um next up let's bring on

infrared how are you

so i just got back from a wedding so you

know that's why how was it

did you dance no i didn't you know no

yeah

but yeah just uh marxist leninist you

know i call myself marxist leninist in

the age of multi-polarity

and the post code world so it's a unique

type i guess

uh simple and anti-imperialist you know

i'm simple as that

all righty

so um here is what we will do each

person can give an opening statement

could be as little as one minute no

longer than five about the topic in your

stance after that will open up the floor

for those watching if you have questions

tag politically provoked who your

question is addressed to we will get to

them during the q and a

um and we'll do closing statements and

final thoughts after the q a i don't

know if you guys want the chat on the

screen if it's gonna be distracting i

could do that just during the q a if you

want um

but we have a new little thing that

shows the chat overlay and i'm kind of

excited about it

like watch just watch

come on check go up it's [ __ ] with me

now all right forget it all right well

let's go to opening statements floss me

why don't you get us started

all right uh so the question today is

can import imperialism be a force for

good

man is born into a world of oppression

that oppression can come from other men

the institutions we create or nature

itself the purpose of man is to liberate

himself and others from this oppression

the best way to achieve this liberation

is with a strong democratic empire what

is an empire an empire is a state that

exerts its political economic and social

will over a diverse territory all large

multicultural states become empires in a

sense but what is more interesting is

how they act imperialism is what these

big states do when they exert their will

internationally and isolationism is when

these states exert their will locally i

believe the best way to achieve

liberation from all the oppressions

discussed is with a liberal empire the

reasons i support empires are follows

they are the most powerful institutions

man has ever created toward reaching a

common goal they are multicultural and

can take the useful elements from any

culture and leave out the bad

and the centralization of the empire

along with its monopoly on violence

allow it to be easily targeted if it

starts to get oppressive now some people

listening might rightfully be thinking

don't employers cause a lot of

oppression themselves and of course the

answer is yes empires are simple people

are saying that you're skipping uh is he

skipping for you uh no no testing

testing yeah it's fine for us i'm so

sorry to interrupt you on that but uh oh

sorry

all right i guess just continue

all right empires are simply tools that

humans naturally form as political

entities cross into diverse areas these

schools can be used for good or bad so

if we are going to use the tool of

empire how do we do so justly the way to

do that is to make the empire liberal

and democratic liberalism is to be

valued for the following reasons it

allows diverse populations to have

individual freedom and not be oppressed

under conformity it allows the will of

the people to literally be expressed

through a democratic process and

liberalism is a limiting framework of

government from which stems some of the

issues of imperialism

a liberal empire almost seems like an

oxymoron but it is in this paradox idea

that we can find an ideal the forces of

liberalism and empire should be opposed

to each other because freedom and

security are opposed to each other and

yet we all want both

these forces are always in constant flux

and you can never have total security or

total freedom so our governing

institutions should be put in a state to

balance these two values this is where

checks and balances come in to mitigate

the empire separation of powers

constitutions protecting human rights

and representative democracy ensure the

empire honors our human rights

the only rights that we have are the

ones that we fight for what makes

something right or wrong is irrelevant

to actually having those rights i

believe that everyone on this planet

deserves the right of life liberty and

the pursuit of happiness i don't see any

of my brothers and sisters in zimbabwe

or kazakhstan or hong kong or seattle as

having a barrier between them i see all

these individuals deserving the same

rights that i do and i'm willing to

fight for these rights the best tool

that we do have to fight for this

liberation is the empire

empires aren't going anywhere today we

have a liberal empire and a totalitarian

dictatorship in china both of these

empires have committed horrible

atrocities to secure their power and yet

both have done amazing things as well

america conquered a continent ended

slavery and liberated europe and east

asia after world war ii china has ruled

over its territory for thousands of

years has the greatest public's works in

the world and has increased the quality

of living so much that they went from a

backwater to a superpower in less than a

century

the question we have to face going

forward into the future

is which of these models will win out

will the chaotic democracy of america

win out with our ability to respect rule

of law the will of the people and

individual liberties or will it be the

competent but brutal dictatorship of

china as it disregards the liberties of

its citizens for an increase in material

conditions for those that conform to be

completely honest i don't know who will

who will win out this is truly the

competition between freedom and slavery

america is the last revolution standing

haiti was beat to a pulp the soviets

collapsed under their own incompetence

and rigidity and china does not even

concern itself with democracy or human

rights america is the last bastion of

liberalism that can fight for rights

around the globe to be fair we have

focused on economics over human rights

in recent decades and i abhor those

actions if there was a better state

position to promote human rights i would

support that if switzerland wanted to

invade us provide everyone healthcare

and free all the non-violent drug

offenders i would not oppose that but

alas the swiss canton systems do not

seem to be poised to be the global

system of organization my goal for the

future is that we extend the rights we

all hold dear to each other throughout

the planet i dream of a day where the

distinction between citizen and

foreigner does not determine your claim

to human rights the best way to do that

is to dissolve the distinction into one

unified state i believe to get there we

need a one world liberal empire with

checks and balances and a limiting

constitution

this is to be fair a far off and lofty

goal this would take generations and

centuries and a vast change in our

material conditions

while this is the ideal i see today

there are real steps i say america

america should take first to get there

we should provide universal health care

to all of our citizens we should close

down guantanamo bay and trial to

prisoners as u.s citizens and we should

rebuild our crumbling infrastructure for

our first steps towards empire brothers

and sisters comrades and companions i

say no matter where you find yourselves

fight fight fight for your liberation

well you may need to bear arms to fight

the suppression the strongest shots we

can take today are often with cameras

not kalashnavs so i say arm yourselves

with whatever means necessary to fight

the good fight and make sure that the

fight is recorded and sent to the

billions of people worldwide so that

just can unite with you to liberate you

from your oppressors

and that's my opening statement there

all right thank you yes

uh first i'd like to say it's

interesting that my opponent here seems

to have unironically either i don't know

if you had invented it yourself or it's

a new trend but i actually predicted

that there is going to be a new form of

fascism that emerges in the united

states which is going to combine the

disillusioned bernie people with the

neoconservatives so aoc plus john bolton

and that's actually the future of uh

american fascism in this country so i

want to congratulate my opponent for

actually unironically adopting this as

some kind of uh internet ideology i find

it very fascinating and interesting but

anyway to

give my opening statement on the

question before we can talk about this

silly idea of a liberal empire and by

the way i'm not necessarily saying

liberal empires are impossible i think

there is an example in history of a real

existing uh liberal empire actually

there's two examples one of which is the

notorious

bloodthirsty pirates of the british

empire which was probably responsible

for more of the genocide slavery and

slaughter of mankind than any other

empire in the history of humanity and

the other one which also has a similar

track record to its predecessor the

british empire was nazi germany another

liberal empire as i would call it

actually i think i would um pretty much

define fascism

as

this paradoxical unity of words liberal

empire fascism is precisely liberalism's

emergency crisis where it can no longer

tolerate the strict formal mechanisms of

liberal government it has to engage in

this um

uh extra liberal

uh so-called empire in order to sustain

liberalism right it requires this

contradiction to preserve it

but even moving beyond this silly idea

of a so-called liberal empire i think we

only need to look at the following facts

to immediately dismiss

the notion that somehow liberalism can

be spread by force by one nation against

other nations and it is the fact there

has never been a successful

or harm meaning minimally harmonious

multicultural or even multiracial

liberal society in the history of

humanity and the reason for that is

because there is no possibility for the

recognition of positive

human realities in a liberal government

i'll preface what i mean by that liberal

governments recognize abstractions like

individual rights and liberties and

human rights but nowhere in liberal

government can they afford a specific

positive recognition of

determinate national reality specific

cultures specific history specific

traditions liberalism is purely an

abstract negative universality that

takes all these things for granted the

minute a government recognizes a

specific nation

or a specific culture or a specific

group it is necessarily extra liberal

it's moving beyond the mere liberal

recognition of equality which is an

abstract and completely um

negative notion that doesn't actually

account for the positive realities and

it moves toward a post-liberal type of

society this is why the only

societies today which actually can

manage multiple uh ethnicities and

nationalities within a single policy in

government are post-liberal illiberal

societies russia is an example of that

russia is not the rule of the russian

nation state and everyone else being

somehow completely oppressed russia is a

multi-ethnic

and civilization and always has been the

same is true for china

so

it stands to question whether a liberal

government can recognize other nations

as even existing in the first place it's

not that i think your liberal empire is

just going to oppress people

the so-called liberal government can't

even recognize nationality

uh culture and civilization as a

positive reality in the first place so

while you think you may be just giving

people equal rights and you're

liberating the world you are

presupposing many things that are unique

to your specific american cultural and

national background that you take for

granted but which other people can can

feel it's sort of like an un it's sort

of like getting unwanted attention from

like a smelly sweaty fat guy behind your

back

he may not know what he smells like and

you know how he's breathing but you sure

as hell can you know detect that and the

same thing i think would be true for

your so-called liberal empire your

liberal empire would be a fat sweaty

unwanted creepy guy

who's claiming to liberate some kind of

woman oh let me liberate you but she can

smell him specifically do you understand

what i'm saying he's not some kind of

abstract force of liberation it's a

specific nation it's a specific country

that's attempting to impose itself on

others whether it acknowledges that fact

or not you can say oh yeah i'm we're not

privileging the specific american

national realities

and imposing that on other people but

that's actually the reality of what

you're doing that's why

that's the very paradox of liberalism

the paradox of liberalism

is that it thinks it's a form of

government that can premise its own real

material conditions liberalism imagines

certain formal premises and conditions

but it doesn't actually account for the

real ones that actually do exist in

reality regardless of

um what you want it to be or what you

think it is right

so i i think it's a complete absurdity

what you're saying so-called liberal

empire but at best if i want to be very

very charitable to you i think you would

be an excellent intellectual for the

future disillusioned uh

dsa hassan and bernie people i think

they would get on board with what you're

saying i think most american leftists

actually whether they want to admit it

right now or not

pretty much completely agree with you

that you are

if i'm being generous to you but i think

you represent the future of the american

left

okay

okay well uh all right um so i just want

to go over a few of the things that you

said in there and then we can i guess

have a back and forth there um i do

understand why you said uh fascism there

except

fascism is like a negation of liberalism

and i want to promote liberalism the

fact that well let me let me just say a

few things that we can go back and forth

um so the so uh so there so there are

key differences there um but regardless

of if we call it fascism or liberalism i

care about the actual policy so i'm not

too worried about the actual uh uh name

that we put on that um so

i'm not really concerned about that yeah

but in terms of

you have to acknowledge my point that

this isn't just about policy it's about

the actual material well i i don't think

you made a good point i don't think that

it's no well

so specifically the reason why it's not

is because i actually care about the

human rights to like for the meaning of

the state i don't care about the state

what is human rights what is that what

is human rights that's something so the

mainstream rights

no no it's very concrete yeah

okay well so the so the human rights i

care about um mainly our life liberty

and the pursuit of happiness just to put

an american context

so yeah so so life means that um because

of your station of birth you're not

going to be determined um if you get

life or not like so you can't be killed

by the state um so freedom from genocide

um and then also basically that you have

freedom of speech so that's the liberty

right there that you can actually

participate so hold on let me address

the first one so you're gonna be free

from genocide which means let's say you

have the example of the korean war the

vietnam war oh the u.s isn't engaging in

genocide against these people because i

didn't say the us never do genocide well

i'm giving you an example of how states

can commit genocide while maintaining

the protection to liberal universalism

the u.s did engage in a type of

genocidal war against koreans and

against vietnamese but it disguised this

oh we're not doing it because they're

vietnamese we're doing it because

they're supporting this nefarious uh

ideology that's opposed to liberalism so

under the banner of defending liberalism

you can in fact in material reality be a

genocide doesn't even work primarily in

the form of like uh we don't like this

group because of where they were born or

what their ethnicity is we're going to

eliminate them it has to do with when

you have concrete civilizational

differences and you can recognize that

it's because of civilizational

differences or not but the very

unwillingness for americans like

yourself to recognize that america is

just another country is what actually

leads to things like real genocide it

doesn't matter if you

so yeah so let me let me jump in here so

yeah so so what you're talking about

isn't really an argument because uh

communist you know regimes marxist

leninist regimes they can also do

genocide something somebody calling

themselves something doesn't mean that

they're upholding their values obviously

that okay but hold on

let me say please let me finish this

please please let me go please please

can you just let me talk and

ameliorating okay

okay

can you let me talk i haven't i haven't

even been able to get at one point

all right all right mr haas

so

one at a time um okay fuzzy why don't

you say what what it is you were gonna

say and then um

yeah so we're uh so regardless of what

somebody calls themselves they can

commit atrocities regardless of what

they do um the reason why i promote

liberalism is because the idea of

the ideas in liberalism are that you

should be liberated from certain

oppressions um one of the oppression is

other people trying to put you down

because of either your race your

ethnicity or where you're from um i

believe that your birth should not

determine how you live um and that is a

central tenet of

of liberalism and stuff and i'm not

necessarily against um just let you know

like marxist thought or uh certain ideas

of socialism or anything i'm not like

necessarily against that so i'm not i'm

not saying that to to attack marxism i'm

just saying that people can use any

ideology as a front and then do

atrocities i'm not for the vietnam war

um something i said in my opening

statement i think that america

especially since the end of the um

second world war we have gone out not to

promote our liberal values but we have

gone out just in search of money we've

gone out just to promote capitalism um

and to fight against communism instead

of letting democrat democratically

elected uh leaders take over in places

where they might want to talk about this

look i don't think you actually

understand what's being said here i

don't think you want to commit

atrocities and you want to engage in

genocide ideally that's not what you

want what i'm asking you is how is it in

practice can your liberal ideology and

i'm not talking about what you want to

happen but based on the material reality

how can you prevent

or how can you avoid

this kind of atrocities in genocide i

know it's not what you want i'm just

saying it's an inevitable result of

attempting to uh be a crusader for your

ideology and regard and you're ignoring

the concrete material and civilizational

differences between different peoples

right different people well the

civilizational difference yeah the

civilizational differences don't matter

like the right side

so there you go you just said it you

just underpinned why i called liberalism

you just made my point for me you just

said civilizational differences don't

matter congratulations you arrived at

why i call liberalism and inherently

genocidal ideology if you don't

recognize these civilizational

differences you're going to overstep the

bounds of your specific civilization and

impose it on others

this is inherently a form of kind of and

this will inevitably lead to some kind

of genocide when you see that despite

constantly imposing and imposing

yourself on others that they're still

resisting it for some deeply embedded

reason this is often the reason for why

genocides happen in history it's not

simply that people have this ideal of

wanting to commit genocide it happens as

a result of not being able to respect

the reality of civilizational

differences

so the reason why i said civilizational

differences don't matter is because the

government that i'm talking about for

like a worldwide empire isn't a

worldwide empire that does everything

for everyone it's not the china of the

world that is in everybody's life the i

would want a limited government that

would barely do a few things number one

is give people freedom of speech and

number two is really stop genocide like

and then if we can do those two things

then i want people to uh uh to be able

to who's gonna enforce that have some

type of democracy

from what so well that so right now

america so right now america is the best

position to do that um i don't care if

it's america if we could have a

federalized u.n um that would go out and

do things because the reason why i said

civilizational differences don't matter

is because i don't see different

ethnicities having a different right to

prevent genocide or to have women go to

school or to you know i mean have

freedom of speech to be able to say what

you want i don't think you know what the

word so that's a huge yeah you don't

know what the word right means so

something called right okay yeah rights

are bestowed by states states have

material civilizations

hey shut the [ __ ] up

rights are based in the state

states have civilizational and material

realities which means states are

contingent therefore rights are

contingent whether you want to recognize

well i don't think certain ethnicities

should have more so hey hey buddy you're

putting the car before the horse before

anyone has to give a [ __ ] about what you

think about which ethnicities uh whether

ethnicities should be given a pass or

not you have to interpolate those

different ethnicities under one common

state in the first place and it's

getting there where you can subsume

everyone under a common state that has

something to say about everyone's rights

that's the problem here i'm accusing

your fantasy of trying to subsume the

entire world into one kind of state one

kind one dispenser of rights as an

inherently genocidal fantasy whether you

recognize it would inevitably lead to

genocide or not is completely irrelevant

it is a fundamentally genocidal ideology

well who would i want to kill because of

their station of birth because that

isn't anything that i've said at all

which is which

hey hey

you have not you have not even [ __ ]

picked up you haven't even been paying

attention to this entire debate i

literally said

you probably don't want any genocide no

i understand but you didn't answer

but can you understand that this is i'm

arguing at least whether you agree with

it or not that this is a fundamentally

inevitable byproduct of this ideology

you have

well i'm saying that you're wrong it's

not that it's the only only people it's

that it's an inevitable byproduct of

trying the only people

a universal liberal state in a world

with various civilizational national etc

differences

so the great thing about the united

states is that we have the system of

states where we have different states

that have different uh uh they have

different uh sovereignties that they can

do civil war can i please finish

so

so yeah so right now we have a

collection of states that we have and

ideally i'd like to see that throughout

the world i'd like to see a united

states of earth obviously that's a lofty

goal we probably won't get there the

closest we could get is like a

federalized u.n but the reason i want

that is i want a limited top-down

government that says hey there's these

few human rights that you have to

respect if you do that then in your own

states then you can do all your other

type of sovereign stuff so that's like

the type of system that i'm arguing for

and nowhere in there am i saying that

anybody because of how they are born

should be killed at all if you want to

say that some people should get violence

against them because of how uh the

actions that they take we can talk about

those actions but that's a separate

thing that's not genocidal so let me get

this straight you're using the united

states a country that was founded on

genocide

as an example for how you're going to

create a universal state for the whole

world you're using the united states

whose racial divisions in this country

are so [ __ ] deeply embedded and such

a source of civil unrest and political

antagonism that it make the rest of the

world looks on in awe at the fact you're

using the united states as an example of

how you're going to ameliorate

civilizational differences when we can't

even ameliorate the smallest [ __ ]

racial cultural differences here i don't

even know if you can say white america

and black america are different

civilizations but the united states is

so poorly equipped with dealing with

differences between peoples cultural

differences between peoples that to this

very day it's a source of such intense

antagonism and conflict you're using

that as an example of how you're gonna

deal with the whole [ __ ] world that's

a joke dude

yeah of course so yeah so the reason why

i'm using that is because it allows for

that sovereignty under a a more

federalized framework um and yeah but

access to change what you want on a

state so so you have to so on that you

would actually be able to change what

you want to say this isn't like a one

you know one day thing that we're just

gonna take over i don't think the whole

world is ready for that um however i

think america's actually really good at

bringing cultures together the idea that

white and black america are two separate

cultures is like a ridiculous thing um

if anything what culture in america

wants to be black culture because of the

uh how positive influence black american

culture has had um but regardless of

that we actually see really well how our

system is working if you just look at

the kyle rittenhouse case he was tried

in a court and then the rule of law

whether whether you would agree with it

or not the rule of law went out there it

wasn't like in china uh where if he was

arrested it would come down to does this

help the party is the party going to win

out here because that's how the uh how

the legal system works over there where

here we actually have the rule of law

and we still have people flooding our

borders trying to come in here because

we have this shining hill of the

civilization no it's not it's people

it's not real quick let me just i just i

just have one more i just have one more

it's not perfect it's not perfect we

have a lot of issues but that's why in

my opening statement the three things

that i said that we should do had

nothing to do with international

expansion the the ideas that i have to

do for

uh for our empire are rebuilding our

crumbling infrastructure give everybody

universal health care close down

guantanamo bay it's not about uh going

out and exporting everything right away

ideally i would want to be a good

example so other people want to join us

i don't want to go out and forcibly and

put this on i want to be a good example

that other people want to be

okay so there's about three things right

first of all the idea that kyle

rittenhouse or whatever is an example of

the profound rule of law the fact that

that was so sensationalized in the first

place and has been such a source of huge

strife and unrest says how much our

so-called rule of law is able to attend

to these antagonisms and these realities

second the idea that immigrants come

here because of our shining pillars

whatever the [ __ ] you're saying it's the

biggest crock of [ __ ] i've ever

heard in my life people come here

because our country is wealthier and you

can get you can have a better standard

of living by coming to live here that's

why immigrants go to europe that's why

immigrants go to wealthier countries

than the countries they're from it's not

because of uh our shining beacon of

democracy where the [ __ ] you're saying

second of all you're talking about how

the united states is going to fix itself

prove itself as an example make itself

appetizing for other countries in the

world to join i guess as the 51st 2nd

3rd 4th 5th state

but

again you're putting the car before the

horse before you can even think of that

you have to address the following facts

one you have to address the current

political antagonism within the united

states i think you're fundamentally

incapable of doing that two you have to

draw out the wealth of actual material

and not arbitrary moral interests that

exist in the united states for why we

would want these various different

countries to join our specific polity

four you have to address the fact that

even if other countries see the united

states as a shining example that they

want to live by for their future and

that's not we're living in fantasy land

right now because that's not what's

going on

why would they ever want to give up

their sovereignty people have spilled

blood for their sovereignty people put

their sovereignty even before being able

to eat even before being able to live

right sovereignty and dignity are

fundamentally

um

and national pride these are fundamental

facts of human life why would people

want to give up their sovereignty and

submit and obey the authority of a

completely different civilization and a

completely different people that just

seems incredibly implausible but if your

idea is basically that we're not going

to become an empire that invades other

countries and forces ourselves upon them

and that this process is going to happen

as a gradual result of countries just

voluntarily deciding to join the united

states

the question stands why should anyone

care about this hypothetical scenario

that probably won't ever [ __ ] happen

what relevance does it actually have

you're saying that countries are going

to be knocking on our doorstep to become

states of this country well first of all

the people of this country are going to

have a problem with that the people of

this country already have issues with

immigration from mexico a country that's

like right on our border right how are

you going to deal with all these

problems and antagonisms and

civilizational and cultural differences

between peoples what you're saying

sounds like a complete joke to me

so yeah it's very evident from the way

that you're talking that you haven't

actually thought about a lot of these

things too much you're you're you just

kind of every thought that comes in your

head you're trying to attach it to a lot

of things which is why you're kind of

rambling on it um so the reason why i'm

talking about the civilization so the

reason i was talking about the

civilizational differences not mattering

is because we have as we progress

forward we have to give up these ideas

of our national civilizations just like

those aren't just ideas can i can i

please talk i just let you talk for a

long time dude come on um so uh so the

ideas of the civilization just like the

ideas of the tribe have fallen away from

us as we've gotten rid of those um the

ideas as we progress forward of the of

the nation state need to um slowly drip

away we need to you know come more

together in a um more of a humanist

ideal so that way we can uh unite on a

planetary um on a planetary ideal the

reason we need to do this is because we

need to be able to muster our resources

um to be able to do the most that we

want and another thing you said why

would people want to join the uh why

would people want to join the state um

the main reason that people would want

to join the state is because we would

want to make ourselves more attractive

and if we're making ourselves more

attractive i would also want other

states to do this as well i would want

them to have the same mindset to make

themselves as good as they can so that

way they could say hey if you're so good

be part of our country and then if we

all get so good and we all don't want to

be part of different countries then we

can come together in unions um i think

that the eu is a really good uh uh

experiment to see are we gonna have

federalization with the the u.s or are

we gonna have confederation with the eu

being uh uh what uh promotes liberalism

uh going forward it seems like the u.s

is stronger right now um but that

remains to be seen in the future um at

the end of the day though regardless of

either of these things if china is the

one that can prevent more genocide with

um their authoritarian rule by having

the top-down approach um then i would be

okay with that if they can actually like

make people's material conditions better

if they can't if they can stop weaker uh

genociding the uyghurs if they can you

know i mean uh stop trying to um

uh dominate the people from you know

hong kong and taiwan then yeah i'd be

okay with that if they can give

everybody liberal values um i don't want

the the chinese government to like fall

or topple just because it's not

democratic and liberal i want it to get

closer to what we are and if we can take

some of their ideas from competence and

we can come together in a global union

that's what i would advocate for so so

first of all the guy goes he says you

say

uh the national realities and

civilizational realities yeah those are

ideas they're merely ideas that we can

swap out and and replace right no dude

they're not just ideas they're rooted in

fundamentally material realities

civilizational memory they're

unconscious realities these are not

ideas and the reason they're not ideas

is because the actual content of

specific ideas don't really matter

civilizational realities

cultural realities national realities

these are things that assert themselves

just through form which means re they

assert themselves symptomately

regardless of what the ideal is

regardless take for example the

experience of communism communism was

the probably the biggest example of a

universalizing abstract ideology or

whatever but

it they had to at least at a certain

point acknowledge yes there are

fundamentally embedded real material

national and civilizational realities

that don't appear to be reducible to any

specific ideology there's something more

fundamental more unconscious more

subconscious that can't be reduced to

some kind of doctrine or some kind of

prejudice so your [ __ ] john lennon

kumbaya thing of like oh we're all going

to come together and abandon our

tribalism and abandon our national

realities this is the complete liberal

delusion and stupidity that i don't even

think is needs to be even addressed on

face value just tell this to people and

they're going to be like yeah you're a

[ __ ] idiot if you think that

right um second of all no not right

second of all yeah shut the [ __ ] up

actually yeah and then you said you said

we have to make ourselves more

attractive to other countries i wonder

if that involves putting a [ __ ] ugly

soul patch on our chin but anyway you

said something like uh you said

something like the eu is a prime example

of it's a really good example dude the

eu is [ __ ] ruled by listen

like german banks it's completely

dominated by france and germany and

there's a colonialism of the eu on the

southern european countries that is an

intense source of [ __ ] uh antagonism

the eu is probably not going to exist in

10 years as a matter of fact the eu has

been such a [ __ ] catastrophe and

being able to respond to issues such as

anti-immigrant populism general

nationalistic sentiment and right-wing

populism the fact is you bring it up as

an example for the entire [ __ ] world

is the biggest joke i've ever [ __ ]

heard now yeah

now yeah great great argument man um so

so yeah so uh so at the end i'm not

saying that we shouldn't uh uh that we

shouldn't care about civilizational

differences or cultural differences um

the way that i would address these

things is on a geographic basis i think

that when you have people that live

together in certain areas that's really

what determines it and i would want

those areas to be states under my system

that i want for

where you're already a state that has

sovereignty over them

okay

wait so what's your question are you

asking how we're going to respond how

are you going to build a state in spite

of these civilizational differences how

will it be built well so so right now

states already exist everywhere

everywhere across the world

the question is so the question is so

the question is how do we organize these

states so right now we actually how are

you going to build a liberal empire that

is going to have sovereignty that

overrides the sovereignty of these

states that already exist

so right now we are already starting to

work on that we have the u.n right now

which is

not an example of okay are you gonna do

do you if you don't care about what i'm

saying then you can like go and just

like jerk off with yourself you know i

mean crying i'm gonna cry am i gonna cry

i don't think i'm gonna cry at all i

don't know what you're talking about man

i'm having fun with this take a sip of

yours this is actually really wrong but

hey if you want to have a big boy drink

another sip um

do you pee out your butt

hey take another sip from your sippy cup

[Laughter]

so um so do you let me just let me ask

you a question you look like a wishes

so question so question i have a

question for you i don't know

this is a lot of fun um so the question

so the question is do you think that uh

we either should or will ever no matter

how long in the future ever have a fully

uh uh planetary or uh human civilization

do you think that's ever absolutely

doubted

do you think we shouldn't have that it

would be weathering away of the state

before that ever happens

so

is he withering away of the state

entirely is more applause did i lose you

guys in a planetary vehicle i'm still

here we're still here can you see us

last night are you okay yeah i can hear

you sorry yeah sorry i got a glitch out

there for a second um okay so i think

that we actually can get to that point i

think that we're gonna get to that point

as material conditions change i don't

think we're i don't think we're there

yet i think that we need to do a lot

more why are we able to get together and

what do we have so

so so i think that the way we have to do

it is actually very reminiscent of what

we did with the eu um the way that that

started with

can i please answer your question can i

please answer your question before you

start asking me another one jesus christ

dude um so the way that the eu started

was they had coal and steel

manufacturers from two nations that were

fighting each other multiple nations

that were fighting each other come

together and uh intersect economically

so we should do that with a lot of other

countries america's already done this to

a large extent with china i don't think

that like china should be taken down or

anything or that we should try to uh

like impose everything over china um i

think that we should work with china

because china is the next biggest force

that can do anything in the world so i

think that china and the united states

should try to work together to

accomplish similar goals

you you you asked me a question i

answered your question yeah you didn't

answer [ __ ] when i interrupted you

that's when you sort of shut the [ __ ] up

because you didn't say anything about

that dude dude you're not posturing very

confidently or strong you're just

showing that you don't know how to argue

no no you're just trying to yell you're

waiting you're wasting my [ __ ] time

you just you don't have any time to wait

and you have you don't have a girlfriend

to go home too you don't have anything

special to do this is all that you do if

you have [ __ ] funko pops and a

[ __ ] squirtle in your backpack i

don't have a funko pop that's just a

it's just a [ __ ] goddamn sword

shut the [ __ ] up you just use the

[ __ ] eu as an example but through

this [ __ ] day the eu is not able to

address the developmental needs and

differences between different states

within it southern european countries

don't have their own independent [ __ ]

industries and it is the inherent

striving of nations and countries to

have their own independent industries

and their own independent economic and

industrial bases the eu has been proved

a complete [ __ ] catastrophe i

wouldn't even say that because it was

never intended for that from the start

it's a neo-colonial institution that

colonizes southern europe with debt

turns them into [ __ ] debt colonies

for german banks you're using that as a

[ __ ] example of how you're going to

ameliorate the economic differences

between china and the us of all

countries you can't even [ __ ] do it

in europe between [ __ ] former

yugoslavia and and germany and southern

europe and italy and greece these small

countries you're gonna take china a

country with 1.4 billion people and

you're going to have the united states

on the other hand you're going to say

we're going to just have the eu as an

our model institution for how to

integrate these two countries what a

complete [ __ ] joke dude you don't

know [ __ ] about [ __ ] geopolitics or

the [ __ ] current world or how the

world works today

i think it's really funny that like

you've like like you you don't

understand my argument at all because

you haven't listened to it because i

don't actually think you disagree with

it too much like if you listen to it

based on some other things i've heard

you say um but the idea that everybody

wants to be economically um and

industrial independent is not true we

don't need to do that it's actually way

better it's actually way better it's

actually way better if we specialize in

certain things and then we trade and if

we're working together

with having an independent real quick

let me please let me finish i just let

you ramble dude can i please finish can

i please finish my thing

can i [ __ ] rambling this entire time

can i guys can i please guys can i

please finish my argument go ahead okay

so uh uh so yeah so the reason why it's

good that uh if we don't just have our

own industrial bases and if we uh mix it

up with different countries is because

that way we share our culture with each

other so that way we have less of these

uh uh device uh

divisions with each other and we share

our trade and industry with each other

so that way our militaries are linked to

each other so we can't fight each other

so like all these things are good at

preventing war and making sure that we

all cooperate together in more of a

humane manner that's that's what i want

to do and if you don't want that thing

that's cool complete it's not about what

you want or what you don't want it's

about the [ __ ] reality and here's the

actual reality we're dealing with on the

[ __ ] ground here different countries

do you want to be in industrial and

economically independent

regardless of what they're [ __ ]

actually specializing in germany

specializes in cars other countries

specialize in different things but those

type of countries have in common in

independent industrial manufacturing and

economic base that is what drives the

politics of almost every single country

in this world is which person is

promising to get better jobs for the

population which presupposes industrial

economic independence now obviously the

world is economically interdependent

there's no way around that but there is

a stark division between export

countries and import countries import

countries by the goods of other

countries thereby creating trade

imbalances which benefit the exporting

countries and importing countries are

flooded with cheap goods that decimate

local industries and decimate the ways

of lives and jobs of the people in those

countries

that alone is like such a simple

condensation of like the most

fundamental economic antagonism that

exists across countries and within

countries it's what drives local

politics politicians respond to this by

promising to return jobs or promising to

revive the economy most of them are

lying but it proves that it is the

fundamental striving of each nation in

each country to build up some measure of

an economic foundation unique to that

country without economic sovereignty you

don't even have political sovereignty

so i agree that economics are important

but i don't think it has to be

industrial the idea that industrial jobs

are the good jobs isn't true especially

into this era um it's one of marx's

biggest blind spots it's that he looks

at the world seeing it very industrial

and then what's an industry the final

age

can i can i please go you said

industrial if you just mean industries

and that's a different question i'm

sorry if i mistook that um the second

part i wanted to go though a lot of the

issues that you talked about with the

trade imbalances treatment balance isn't

necessarily an issue but you did point

out a few issues that come from it um

the tpp one of these organizations that

actually brings countries together which

is what i'm talking about i'm talking

about more institutions to bring

countries together all in a common

banner that would actually alleviate

some of the issues that you're talking

about so my ideas of like spreading uh

the reason why i bite the bullet of

imperialism isn't because i want to go

out and conquer a whole bunch of

territories it's because i have ideas

that i want to spread worldwide because

i think genocide's bad for everyone i

think freedom of speech is good for

everyone and i think that people's

material conditions should be improved

yeah if only material reality was

let me just finish

what i really i'm almost there what i

really care about is global cooperation

to make sure that we can do that for the

most amount of people

yeah if only material reality and how

reality works was based on what you want

and what you don't want there has been

no leader in the history of humanity

maybe besides the nazis who like

directly said yes we want to do bad [ __ ]

and just have bad [ __ ] happen bad [ __ ]

is the result of good people saying they

want to do good things and the bad

shit's a byproduct you haven't even come

close to remotely addressing

and this is the first point i'm making

how you're going to avoid the same bad

[ __ ] that liberal empires in the past

have done how are you going to avoid

that saying that you don't want them to

happen isn't [ __ ] convincing enough

nobody says they want them to happen now

second of all you said another stupid

[ __ ] thing which was oh

industries are outdated today especially

in this day and age ex

please i'm gonna ask you to impress you

upon that how exactly are [ __ ]

industries outdated today uh because of

the unique circumstances of the era

industries what do you even think an

industry is in the first place first of

all maybe we have to get to the bottom

of that first now you're also saying

that trade imbalances don't matter even

though it's the fundamental driving

source of the conflict between the

united states and china up to this day

it's the very source of china's rise in

comparison to united states it's why

donald trump became a thing in the first

place in the united states um you

haven't even made a single [ __ ]

argument this entire debate let alone

that [ __ ] rambling spiel you went on

before i started talking so why don't

you actually get to the meat and

potatoes instead of talking about oh i

want this to happen i want that to

happen can you at least prove how it's

going to happen or that it can happen

nobody cares about your stupid [ __ ]

larping scenario which is just as real

as the [ __ ] pokemon in the back of

your [ __ ] room it has nothing to do

with reality

this it is a lot of fun because like

instead of like arguing it's just like

the name calling and it's just like

going back and forth you are a [ __ ]

and all this stuff before you are a bit

so ex and exactly then

right on cue um so so one of the one of

the things that i would do to uh to

alleviate some of the stuff you said a

lot of liberal empires have gone out to

do this they've done some of these good

things but they've also you know done

terrible atrocities in the week they're

automatically genocidal um i don't

necessarily disagree with you that has

happened i'm with you the way that we

stop that mainly is with transparency um

what we've seen you can see harvard

studies on this non-violent protest has

actually been much more successful than

violent protest um since the end of the

uh what does it have to do with the

atrocity there's a lot of there's a lot

of reasons for that um but what it has

to do with the atrocities is that i

believe we should have transparency for

things if you didn't if you listen to my

opening statement i said that what is

that protest

the strongest weapon that you're going

to have is your camera not your

kalashnov so like that

doesn't stop atrocities people are

accountable

well it does in america like no one does

not able to [ __ ] all the time

protests didn't stop the [ __ ] british

from the bengal famine in india it

didn't stop [ __ ] the british from

committing atrocities why do you think

peaceful protest is going to stop

atrocities well first off peace and also

and also here's why you're [ __ ]

stupid here just yeah

if you're laying the burden on the

people now and not the government you're

speaking on behalf of a potential

government and yet you're talking about

how the people should just be peaceful

but dude you're the one who's the

government you can't [ __ ] go hey you

know all you people who have problems

you should just peacefully protest but

your position of moral agency and

responsibility has its f as its

foundation the government you're not

speaking on behalf of the people you're

speaking as the government the so-called

government of the liberal empire your

response to the question about

uh how are you going to prevent

genocides and atrocities like other

liberal empires in the past have is

saying hey it was the people's fault

that those [ __ ] you're going to blame

the people for that that's a great

struggle

because are you farming because that's a

really good straw man you could take

that out to the farm with you that's

such a good straw man like you could

clarify what you mean by peaceful

progress clarify what you mean by

peaceful process i didn't say i didn't

even you didn't listen

okay

so you're not listening so you're not

listening so so the main reason why i

want this liberal empire is so that

people can have freedom of speech so

that's what the government does on their

side they give people the freedom of

speech if people have freedom of speech

then they can actually be transparent

record these things and make sure that

these atrocities get addressed by the

government and that way people stop it

the only way that something's going to

stop in a democracy is it the people

that does not stop atrocities why the

people have to be what it's the only way

to there's no other way to stop it that

you have like there isn't a way that you

have do you have how do you i am calling

your fantasy inherently genocidal

i am calling your fantasy inheritance

but you haven't you haven't provided any

evidence for that at all yeah like

because the only the only real existing

and you just yell yeah but the only real

existing liberal empires that exist have

existed in history have been what the

british empire the united states in the

20th century and today and i would argue

nazi german you probably wouldn't agree

with that i was all genocidal

but they were all

these empires were liberal

none of these empires were liberals

you're saying

wait wait you're saying the british

empire was not a liberal empire

no the british empire was just a cat the

british was a capitalist where do you

think liberalism originated you [ __ ]

idiot

where do you think liberalism came from

you [ __ ] illiterate stupid [ __ ] you

don't know anything about history you're

literally a dumb ass you're literally a

dumb [ __ ] you think do you think do you

think that when uh uh that when that

when britain took over do you think that

when britain took over the east india

trade company for uh uh that when they

took it over they just gave everybody

human rights and they made them all

citizens bro

when has liberalism ever been defined by

human rights human rights is a [ __ ]

concept

no human rights had nothing to do with

that human there was not even the

[ __ ] vernacular of human rights human

rights

no human rights the [ __ ] phrase human

rights only started to be used in the

american unipolar era of neoliberalism

after the 1970s before then not true

human rights started with like thomas

paine you're way off okay okay

okay when did the specific phrase human

rights right when is the human rights

charter founded

well the human rights charge is separate

from the actual phrase when was the

founders when was the human rights

startup exact date you can look up the

exact i thought you're a smart guy who

knows

obviously post world war two

why are you bringing up the [ __ ]

civil war and thomas paine you dumb [ __ ]

what what wait you you are so lost you

you're not even here for the argument

are you you just wanted to ramble in

yeah all you've done this whole time

it's meta narrative eyes like a [ __ ]

[ __ ] instead of addressing any

substantive point i've brought up

literally all you've done is

meta-narrativize the [ __ ] debate

which proves you [ __ ] lost by the way

i've literally i've literally answered

all your questions

you

of how you address the discrepancy

between ideals and material reality you

have to address the question of how you

can use the eu as an example you haven't

addressed the question of how you can

use the united states as a [ __ ]

example you haven't addressed the

question of whether civilizational

differences are material or solely based

on ideas as you said you haven't

addressed a single [ __ ] thing i've

said this entire time all you've done is

meta-narrativize and [ __ ] ramble and

talk fast about a whole lot of [ __ ]

nothing

i would i would really suggest you to

re-listen to this debate because i i

literally answered all of those

questions that you had like and i

brought up examples okay we'll see in

the post-debate polls we'll see how

people vote in the poll okay we'll see

because i don't think i have to re-watch

someone why

why is so much of the devil why are you

interested in your personal identity

why is so much of it because you you're

a [ __ ] kind

because you are a team

you are a time wasting midwife that's

why you're a time wasting complexion

okay let me ask you so it's all

posturing let me ask you what's up it's

very hard to hear you i don't know if

like um

you want to turn up your volume or

something but it's very hard to hear you

me can you hear me i mean yeah which is

really quite especially when they're

both [ __ ] healthy yeah i'm gonna ask

one of the questions that wasn't

answered to floznie how were industries

outdated he did ask you that question i

don't think we got an answer to so maybe

you can answer that

yeah so it's not that industries are

outdated because industries replies to

uh it's every part of the economy i

thought he was talking about just the

industrial uh workforce that we're

talking about which means we don't have

as much of the industrial workforce

today what's the industrial works

workforce

what are you referring to

people that are working people that are

working in like heavy industry people

that are working you think heavy

industries are outdated

we're talking about a completely

economic analysis yes that yes we should

talk about wait wait you think yes

much more so countries have moved past

the need for

it's not that we've moved it's not that

we've moved past it it's that we have so

much more going on in our economy is

that if you just like one economy and an

industrial focus okay you're gonna like

what like what i literally just went

over what what do we have more what do

we have going on

what more do we have going on that's way

more

i i already answered i literally just

didn't answer you never [ __ ] answered

it what more do we have going on besides

the heavy industries that outweighs the

heavy industry so

well we we've completely expanded our

service industry and the digital

industry that we have it's complete

service and digital what is digital what

do both of those things rely upon still

so they both rely upon computers which

have to be physically made but they're

the the amount of income that they get

isn't mainly from their industry isn't

from their material oh you're talking

about government printing you're talking

about governments mainly from their

intellectuals yeah you're talking about

government fiat which isn't a [ __ ]

measure of the real economy of our

countries whatsoever you don't even know

what fiat means you can't even talk you

don't know what

vietnam what the other school is

i don't know

you're not prepared you're not prepared

for this conversation explain how i

don't know what yes

gold is a fiat currency too you don't

you don't know what it means because

you're not going to yeah but

why is that a problem it's a fiat yeah

why is it probably particularly by fiat

most people mean when the federal

reserve prints money that's not backed

by our emergency

why is that an issue because it's not a

measure of the real economy

why do you think it's not a measure

because biden just printed like

trillions of dollars last year in the

real economy

do you want to know why they print that

money they don't just print that

i explained to you why you don't

understand why i don't know you don't

understand why you have no idea why

because it's not stop telling me hey hey

soy boy

you need to fix your mic or something

because it's kind of they're not gonna

be able to compete with them um

um yeah so that was fun all right uh

something about soy milk what was

happening

yeah he i i asked him uh to make an

argument all he says you don't know

anything about this prove it no i

already you didn't listen to any of the

arguments i made because you wanted to

respond you didn't make a single [ __ ]

argument you just want

measure the real economy and i explained

it to you and then you went well why are

they no you don't explain it yes i did

explain it to you you know you did it

because you don't understand why they do

that how do you know how do you know i

don't understand prove i don't

understand well because you you proved

your lack of answering the question um

one of the main reasons that we actually

expand our money supply is because our

population is continually increasing if

we don't expect the population has

always been increasing you dumbass the

population yes that's why we need more

money because deflation is a really

really bad we only

we only got rid of your [ __ ] gold

standard in the 70s you dumb [ __ ] the

population has been expanding well yeah

i know and the current and the current

dollar is based on the peso dollars it's

not based on nothing yeah yeah it's

based on a petrol dollar but not

formally speaking it's not oh my god

yeah you know if you want to know what's

going on with the price of oil okay

listen the petrol dollar is not real i

don't care you don't understand

economics you don't know economics

you're just bluffing the petrol dollar

doesn't [ __ ] measure the real economy

because the [ __ ]

fake economy has been going up the green

line has been [ __ ] going up and the

real economy has actually been

stagnating you dumb [ __ ] it's that

[ __ ] simple say anything you didn't

address anything with actually the issue

is bluffing prove it prove it's

methodically proven get to the meat

potatoes

so yeah yeah so so the issue is that

you're actually not even talking about

me in potatoes you're not even talking

about gravy like you're saying you know

you're not saying anything no you're not

saying anything you're not saying

because i've explained actually

you don't want to say anything you

didn't say anything you don't want to

listen you're not saying do you want to

listen if i say right now you just said

nothing you just are you going to listen

if i say something you just said nothing

right now you just said nothing you just

said nothing

cool cool you just said nothing you

didn't say cool you just said nothing so

you just said no

so all right i don't know you just said

nothing you just not you did you didn't

even say anything for questions you

didn't even say anything right now i

think we're down for you

i don't know i can't

[Laughter]

oh you guys are fun all right so um

justin fired by the way

[ __ ] great replacement being replaced

fired

um all right so let's see we had a super

chat from

ken beck wait why am i hearing myself

echo uh can back on this can back on

discord i don't know uh serious and

unironic question for flozny is he gay

um i'm still here myself okay

i am not gay no

uh

positive meet yourself and see what

happens

testing hello nope not you still hear it

of course i'm muted i stay muted

hello hello

are you the guilty one

no i'm still here

no how's me mute it real quick

it might be um

hello hello hello oh haas is the guilty

one

all right let's go from um

headhunter

where does haas land on the political

spectrum

um i would say internationally i would

be considered left but in the united

states

left and right are not really meaningful

distinctions i don't think right now so

you know some people i would probably

just be a centrist here in the united

states i'm not really part of the

american left i don't think i agree i

agree with haas on that the left and

right are not a meaningful distinction

in america we have a point of agreement

have you ever done one of the political

compass tests

yeah i didn't do a compass test i just

took a quick test and i skimmed through

it and it just gave me marxist leninist

did it yeah

all right so and then we have from we

need critical thinking question for

later um

who did flosney vote for and does he

consider himself a hypocrite

uh no i don't consider myself a

hypocrite i voted for biden even though

he's not perfect i mean trump was the

other option so okay

let me see the ones that are coming in

now

uh from informationists brick can you

ask flosny how the marxist dialectic

process is enhancing the liberal

neo-marxist conditions of the working

class in the sarin con in the syrian

context of uh dislarges

yeah it's not okay

um

john smith for infrared

if you yell any child will they hear you

better

um

this is for the audience to be honest i

don't really care

okay

uh let me see what else we got

okay wait

uh from audio freak tell floss knee i

said thank you when he mentioned almond

milk i remember to put my milk away okay

all right

um you know i'm not saying

all of the questions because we were

having to do a lot more since our

moderator decided to bail on us

[ __ ] justin

yeah yeah tucker from tucker wilson

question for haws can you please

elaborate to floss me that england

[ __ ] invented liberalism i i think if

somebody is so illiterate that they

don't actually know that i don't think

they're in a position to be on the

internet showing their face and debating

anyone about anything

simple as that yeah so just real quick i

don't i don't think that look that oh

the idea modern liberalism didn't start

in uh uh uh uk i'm not disputing that um

but i don't think that they gave their

uh that they were using their liberal

ideas when they were uh enslaving the

bengalis or the indians and everything

oh yeah

of course liberalism has never been

tried

okay cool one good good one from the

other carl

and this the other carl is the one who

actually requested this debate um for

haws

will america collapse or secede in your

opinion

uh i don't know what that exactly means

but i could just say yes you know like i

don't know what you have in mind for

that but i do think we are headed for a

political crisis that in all likelihood

is going to radically transform the

united states of america as we know it

oh it's the other carl the color carl

and has made up that's cool

yeah i heard you guys had a fun little

debate

feisty apparently all right so from

wtf

h okay does fosney believe in labor

aristocracy

uh i don't know what that was i'd have

to read up on it

okay let's see if there's anything else

i can pull up

on that question that has on the

question that has got though um i don't

think that we're anywhere close to

seceding or breaking up or balkanizing

it wasn't about no one cares from from

what i understand about yeah yeah it

wasn't for you she wants to get the

question so

brittany is that right if i answer that

question just real quick

thank you um

so uh so right now we're nothing like

the balkans it seems like they were much

more invested in their local uh uh

institutions for governance and in

america we seem to be much more

interested in our federal institutions

for government for whatever reason so i

think it's very unlikely

okay um question for both what should be

the primary issue contention to focus on

as we approach 2022

uh it depends who we are but for me it's

building a third party specifically

paying attention to the people's party i

tell my people to join the communist

party usa but that's because i

ultimately believe the communist party

should be like trailing

you know and joining in with the

people's party as a popular front so

it's about building the people's party

and that's a party that i think doesn't

necessarily have to be one ideology you

can p people from all over the political

spectrum should be getting behind

the people's party and that's what i

think

um so i don't think that uh uh i think

third parties are really really silly uh

in the united states mainly because our

primary system has hijacked them um i

wish that we had more options for third

parties and i think that um our primary

issue should really always be uh to try

to dismantle the primary structure to

dismantle the corporation of the

democratic national con committee and

the republican national committee um

those two institutions hold so much

power over our institution over um our

elections i think that disbanding those

should be the main thing other than that

though universal healthcare yeah so it

turns out who would have known for all

his talk he's just a democrat

i mean i vote for who's going to win you

know who i have a chance with voting

isn't an individual act voting is a

community at all

it all amounts to something very simple

vote for biden guys it's all simple as

that oh beautiful strawman again

beautiful

um all right so from the other carl for

floznie why is biden's approval rating

so low right now voters oh there's a

there's a thousand reasons i think that

biden isn't a very strong uh candidate

um or president himself um i think he's

done pretty good legislation with what

he's had to work with um but we also

have a system that um gets you gridlock

if you don't have a strong majority in

congress with your party so because of

that we don't have a strong majority and

we're in this gridlock right now so part

of it's you know just the political

stagnation because not enough people

actually came out to vote for democrats

to put them in power so democracy oh so

excuse me so biden can really flex his

dick um but you know since we're left

where we are it makes sense that we're

going to be in this predicament

all right thank you for the super chat

sultan as i said frederick bliss mostly

made the argument that free trade was a

form of economic control by american or

the uk to enforce its hegemony what

would you say about this

which one's that for i don't know

oh do you want to take that one house or

do you want me to take that

um it's a hundred percent true we know

from history for example that the uk was

pushing the free trade system against

lincoln's protectionism uh around the

civil war

because the development of an

independent manufacturing and industrial

base in the united states would compete

with and hurt british industries so the

british were promoting free trade around

the world in order to flood countries

with their cheap goods the opium wars

was a great example of a liberal empire

in action it forced china to liberalize

so that the british could sell their

drugs

uh to china

so yes absolutely

i i agree with uh your analysis there

okay

all right so from person will philosophy

be satisfied when the liberal world

empire is providing the u.s maybe all

the pokemon

wants um 100 slavery

before i actually read them and i kind

of like i don't hear the person like who

is reading faster than me laughing

because they know what the end is coming

all right go ahead

yeah if pokemon are really cool um if we

could have him that'd be cool but uh

it's kind of slavery but they're also

like kind of digital things so like

maybe it's just an algorithm

like what you have in your background or

something is that like a pokemon yeah

that's the uh that one there that's my

uh uh uh that that squirtle right there

that's my girlfriend's favorite uh

pokemon so yeah got it right behind me

all right

guys did you hear you had a girlfriend i

i just worked here yeah i have two kids

yeah yeah everyone needs to know that so

in case no one heard it

just reminding me

let's see

from google show ask how's why he

rejects his ancestors by advocating [ __ ]

their communism and not glorious baptism

i i don't uh

my family comes from lebanon so

and the bath in lebanon were mainly the

sunni right so i come from a shia

background so actually it's not

my tribal affiliation

okay

um let's see what else we have here

hold on it might be almost caught up i

don't know so we have so many different

like programs now going let's see if

there's anything on odyssey yo well

shout out to haas for that shout out you

gave us we are allies brother thank you

even though i don't agree with your

politics thank you for the shout out

absolutely no problem no problem

somebody sent that chosen that was so

nice

um all right thank you for the super

chat sultan dragon ball z is better than

pokemon nerds okay i like dragon ball z

too um

okay

so let me see what else we have

it might be okay wait

did i already oh okay again from the

other carl for floznie did you ever see

that south park episode that made fun of

pokemon

uh yeah i think when they were like

indoctrinating all the kids and

everything that was really funny they

were making the uh americans feel good

for having the big penis it was really

funny it was really funny i love south

park um zen shapiro i'm not reading that

comment and you behave okay so

um what else you can read it if you want

no i'm not if zen wants to be creeping

on me now no we're not going to do that

he's

being bad

let me see i don't mind it at all you

know me i'm here yeah no spicy takes

literally the one thing you also said

like um

i made it i made a thing where like i

don't i'm not gonna read super chats if

they're talking about people's families

and stuff anymore um i did that to

destiny and i probably shouldn't have um

but i know he probably doesn't care but

it is probably something i shouldn't be

doing uh so keep it to people that can

defend themselves but floznie was

somebody who said he doesn't care if you

guys if you do that i just don't want to

um i want to start you guys on the house

yeah this chat it's not the chat to do

that into yeah so um i don't care what

you guys write in in the chat i'm just

not gonna read it on screen basically

um

i think we might be

caught up i think they think um i mean

if you guys want to go into closing

statements and classes this is a quick

debate i guess how long are we here only

an hour

oh wait what is this um i guess i went

first so i'll go second for that

whatever

go ahead

my closing statement

this was not uh

really a debate in my view it was more

like somebody

basically someone with a mind of a child

talking very fast about things

over which they have absolutely zero

grasp

and zero knowledge to the it stands to

this uh very

minute he did not address one

substantive point or rebuttal or

challenge

i gave to what he said all he did is

bluff about my level of knowledge of

things without even being able to prove

it

or demonstrate it in any capacity but i

will say as a closing remark on this

mentality on this question of liberal

empire i want people to keep an eye on

this

i this

mutation we see with these disillusioned

bernie supporters the direction that

they're going to

which is the advocacy for a kind of

outright liberal dictatorship overriding

american democracy

i think as we've seen the left in

america is extremely unpopular their

best bet

as of now is to align themselves with

silicon valley

deep state and the military

military-industrial complex to impose

their so-called ideals on the population

and that is what i actually foresee i

foresee a unity between aoc

and the neoconservative wing of the

republican party so

lost me i would like to just denigrate

him as a complete clown

because after all he is a dumbass

granted

but i think as a almost as a comedy as a

happenstance as a coincidence he managed

to as a dumbass stumble his way into a

position that i do think is going to

have somewhat of some measure of

currency

in the future probably not on the terms

he foresees it and he envisions it

there's a lot of dumb people who forward

their unique eclectic ideologies because

these are discord debate andes who are

never actually pressed

on their positions in any scenario

besides impressing 14 year olds on the

internet but

uh just on its face value the rise of

this liberal dictatorship fantasy

that's something to keep an eye on

all right go ahead

all right so i really couldn't be more

pleased uh with that closing statement

from haas i think it really just shows

his lack of engagement with the ideas

that we talked about here um i did a lot

of research for this you know a lot of

different uh empires throughout history

whether it's china whether it's the

roman empire whether it's what america

or britain's doing now we really didn't

get a chance to talk about that um we

didn't get to talk about the fact that

uh we are unifying more and more

globally and that is a trend that's

going to continue into the future um if

we do become you know a real space

faring uh uh species then the idea of

having a an earthly uh communal um

civilization is only going to become

that more apparent um and i think that

that is our natural trajectory um not

just because of that but uh but because

of all the unions that we do see

building up now um the main uh narrative

that we have throughout history is of

people trying to fight off their

oppression by working together in bigger

bigger cooperatives to fight off that

oppression and i'd see the empire just

as an extension of that biggest um

cooperative so uh haaz has really just

um reduced himself to uh nothing but ad

hominems this whole debate really um i

thought we were really going to be able

to talk about the issues but i'm not

expected or i didn't really expect much

from

you know somebody who's five nine who

doesn't understand that you can't pee

out your butt so this is where we are um

liberal imperialism wins again is elon

musk gonna take us to space britney and

uh todd is it elon musk gonna take us to

space

no i think that'll probably be the

liberal empire so hold on what's the out

of the butt thing you said that twice

what is that in reference to

i have an idea what was what thing i'm

sorry you broke up first what's the p

out of the butt thing in reference to is

that something your girlfriend

talks about or

well it was it was a question that you

asked because you don't understand that

women have three holes below oh you mean

like you mean you mean the rhetorical

question

no no i mean i mean like you're you're

even more pathetic than i thought wow

okay well it was fun wait wait can you

does your girlfriend talk to you about

how many holes she has do you watch her

pee or something or

well well typically like i can finger in

her [ __ ] while she squirts in my mouth

so i can see the two holes so oh she

pees obviously saying she pees on you

well she squirts i think she's squirts i

like squirting i think it's pretty your

girlfriend pees on your face is what

you're saying

you're

wait didn't you say one time that you

you didn't like to make girls come or

you didn't want to make girls come

unless it was to make other girls brag

about it yes

yeah i stand by that

oh my god oh my god oh man you i feel so

bad for you man i really do man i i hope

that you find some confidence man you

don't you don't you're not supposed to

drink pee i hope you know that so i hope

you spit it out

okay okay hey listen man i i like when

girls squirt if you've never made a girl

squirt

i promise there's a whole new world out

there for you buddy i mean pee

i'm talking about squirting if you don't

know that there's a difference i mean

that's that's on you man i mean you

obviously never made a girl

oh my god this is so bad but you're

talking do you realize you're not making

yourself look good because you don't

understand women like i love when women

scripture it's awesome but you're

talking about girls like it's really sad

you're talking about you're in right now

talking about you're in

it's not here it's not just your ad my

dude there's a lot of stuff in there

okay so yeah i like one girl square

square here's what i do

um you've got a dude that likes to make

girls square that's what you just and i

can't make girls square unfortunately

you can't but that's all right you're

trying to do an own it's not going to

work here because most people like ones

let me ask you a genuine question that's

fun genuine question i don't actually

know what's up

but if she got to know me who do you

think she would prefer between me and

you

oh she doesn't take guys under six foot

so you would not be oh oh really sorry

are you sure about that trip

well if

okay

so are you actually confident in that

she's not

yeah yeah she's not interested in guys

that are under six foot because she

she's pretty tall she's 5 10 so she

likes to look up to a guy yeah how tall

are you like unironically that's just

her type i'm six foot you're six foot

i'm six foot tall so you're two inches

taller than her

uh yep so when she wears high heels

you're so when she wears high heels

you're the beta basically

i'm i missed a super is this is this

really aren't you five nine like isn't

that yeah that's all you are and like

you want to talk about you're saying she

prefers yeah we got a late super chat

you're saying she prefers men who are

taller than her and when she wears high

heels she's thought you're not taller

than her

well no no actually that's not what i

said you again you you have a real

problem with it you said

over six foot i said she prefers because

she wants them to you she wants to be

able to have them look down on her but

you can't do that when she's wearing

high heels nope i didn't say look down

on her you really don't listen well yes

it looked good to me you did it

no you you don't understand there's a

difference there yeah what was the new

one what's going on huh are you getting

to twitter are you going to twitchcon

because i want to actually

see if you're confident

i'm not going so do you you think you're

six you're six foot i don't even know

you think that in real life you would

impose a presence upon me next to me

dude

is this the way that you think do you

think like about like going up to men

like imposing a present like yeah would

you have a present would you have a

presence amidst me would you like stand

out i i promise i would not be concerned

with you at all if we were at a place

together like you wouldn't you wouldn't

phase me okay

but here's what i think i think your

girlfriend would

okay i promise you she's not interested

in five nine short dudes well she can

decide that

she won't be interested in you but okay

well we'll see if she decides

he won't you won't see she's not i i

i i think she could speak for herself

flawlessly

she could speak for herself

she's not your property she can speak

for herself

she isn't my property no she can speak

for herself but i'm not going to twitch

con i'm definitely not ever going to

hang out with you like i don't want to

hang out with you dude i'm sorry well i

just think i think

i just think you're trying to you just

seem really insecure i just think you're

trying to control your girlfriend a

little too much

okay

okay we have a new super chat that came

in and uh i think it's for both of both

parties right britain

you're muted woman

you know

every [ __ ] time every time as you

should be right oh no all right so jan

brade said uh to both speakers what

aspect of the u.s system could be

exported when the u.s people do not

themselves enjoy any stability where is

the thing that is worth copying outside

the us thank you for the super chat by

the way

well i think our rule of law is like

really really strong that's why we see

with the written house that it wasn't

done along political alliance it wasn't

like you know xi jinping just comes down

say hey this is going to hurt the giant

communist party so we're going to go one

way or another with it um so i think our

rule of law is really good that's a lot

of stability which is why people come

here because they want that stable

economy that they can make money in um

but we have a lot of work to do i mean

we don't have universal health care like

we don't even guarantee our people

internet access or uh

housing so i think that we should talk

about china's legal system since you're

an expert on it talk about china's legal

system and its rule of law

what was that since you're an expert on

china's legal system uh can you prove

you have any knowledge i didn't say i'm

an expert i didn't say i'm an idiot you

know about how the rule of law works in

china right

well i know i know that the rule of law

is always subservient to the communist

party in china and that that's why

they're on all the human rights

violations um i really oh yeah one other

thing not anybody if anybody looks out

if real real quick i would just say if

anybody like wants to know like more

about like what china does um though the

weaker human rights project is a really

good uh resource yeah

do you um okay

do you think that the rule of law in the

united states trumps the national

security interest of the deep state

do i think that the rule of law in the

united states yeah trump's this is

my degree was actually in pre-law you

were in my section well we actually have

one of the most we actually have one of

the most stable we have one of the most

stable legal systems around the world

yeah but we don't in practice actually

have a rule of law

no yes yes we do we have a very strong

rule of law yes we do judges rule not

based on some airtight formal rule of

law but very much on pathological who

ever said

no nobody said that rule of law was

airtight you're not yeah so you just say

that in china it's subservient to the

interest of the party it's the same

thing in the united states except we lie

about it no it's no it's not at all no

it's not at all it's not even close to

that

really well then how come trump wasn't

able to try hillary why wasn't why

wasn't trump able to try hillary for

anything but xi jinping can put any of

his political opponents away

because they he found them guilty of

breaking the laws of china for

corruption are you denying no no no

because they found them guilty of

corruption which is institutionalized in

the way that the chinese government

works really do you know that you know

the level of corruption in the party

before and after xi jinping xi jinping

clamped down on corruption so severely

that it's not even comparable anymore

you don't think there was anything are

you denying that's one of the things

that he says but that's not actually

true can you prove it

any statistics or data if if you if you

want to if you want to have another

debate all about china's human rights

violations we can talk about no i want

to talk about the anti-corruption

campaign which you saying wasn't if you

want to if you want to have a debate if

you want to have a debate about like the

levels of corruption in china yeah we

can set up so so the anti-corruption

campaign was just g consolidating power

it wasn't actually about corruption if i

have you guys no it wasn't just

and what have you it was just about the

no no there were multiple reasons i went

if you want to have a whole debate on

china we can do a whole debate on

youtube okay so you can see you're gonna

surrender accepted your girlfriend's

watching see this this is this and the

rendering is really interesting because

you're underexposed this is your whole

thing

exactly this is your whole thing yeah

focused just on like the way that it

presents and the way that like surrender

accepted you don't actually care you

don't actually trade

when you keep trying to when you submit

it you keep trying to beta beta data

beta keep it trying to interrupt because

you know that you're paying anywhere you

submitted to yourself listen when you

don't actually have a way to yeah yeah

when you submit your voice listen listen

when you listen when you can be like

daddy yeah yeah when you submitted to

your when you submitted to your alpha

please when you submitted to your alpha

your girlfriend saw that

your girlfriend saw it

your girlfriend saw you submit to me

your girlfriend saw you submit to me

she's watching she saw you submit to me

i'm the alpha you're the baby

your girlfriend saw it your girlfriend

saw it why are you so concerned why are

you so concerned with this alpha beta

dynamic like are you are you really that

your girlfriend's concerned with it i

guarantee you i guarantee you your

girlfriend's concerned with it

it's nature

i promise you she's not i guarantee you

she's concerned with it

laws i guess

laws

you are not man enough i i have been

with girls who had boyfriends i know

beetles when i see them and you are a

baby wow

yeah wow you've been with a girlfriend

with a boyfriend oh my god listen dude

yeah

and you sound you seem like the

boyfriend to me you seem like the

boyfriend

you remind me of the boyfriend you have

to pass her you have to posture your

masculinity instead of like having an

argument on the subject it's very weird

to me but you're the one who kept

bringing up people

she

notices your beta behavior what are you

talking about trust me

trust me she can tell trust me you again

again you keep bringing trust me she

bring it up can't make a girl squirt

trust me

trust me

and you didn't talk about what you

talked about p you weren't talking about

squirt you were talking about p

oh okay tell me the difference between p

and squirt has what's the difference but

you were talking about p you mentioned p

in the beginning what's the difference

between i asked you if you watched your

girlfriend p and you said yes

n squared okay we can roll back the

difference between p and squared we can

roll back square times square only has a

certain difference

square only has a certain percentage of

p it does have a percentage of p though

uh okay so then i said she squared on my

face i didn't say she peed on my face so

i don't know what you're talking about

but good one good one yeah but he did

say p you did say you could attempt you

did say p nope nope

dude i guess we'll let the video tell

you yeah you did say p do you care about

you i asked you i

do you care about any of the arguments

do you care about any of the arguments i

asked you you're the one who keeps

bringing up squirtle and you just care

about that you're the one who keeps

bringing up your pokemon squirtle but

anyway listen listen you brought up your

pokemon

listen listen

just make sure she's of

oh age older than me so

okay r kelly because you know

you do have a track record

so i believe i could fly

[Music]

i believe i could touch the sky you okay

so

um a question for haws uh it broke up

for a second

what's that

question for haas does he consider

himself a social conservative yeah more

or less

and yeah

from

i don't even know how to say that but uh

oh now i get it squirtle

okay

um

we are okay guys we are gonna be having

our pop on during the chat right after

this i'm gonna do a new stream for it so

um we'll get that going

and

uh we'll talk about the kyle written

house what are your thoughts on that um

um i think it's being used to divide

people although i i don't really have an

issue with the verdict at all but i do

think it's people who are over invested

in it on either side are being whipped

up into a whole bunch of nothing

but that's just my view

dividing conquer tactics yeah

i yeah i am definitely uh in support of

it i mean it was clearly self-defense by

like every single thing and i'm really

happy that uh in america that if you you

know defend yourself with a firearm that

you don't just get uh thrown in jail

with it um somebody said bring floznie

to the zerkos royale i'm down tell

zerger to have me on i'll jump on there

let's do it

oh my goodness all right so um i guess

we can probably shut this one down and

we will start a new stream in a little

bit probably about

yeah we'll probably do it before the 20

minutes but um yeah i think thank you

guys both for coming on the poll is up

in our community section so you guys can

go vote on who you think won um and we

will be back in a few for our pop on

drinking chat so

all right thanks for having me on guys

bye-bye thanks bro see you later all

right good night guys thanks guys

thanks for watching