Leftism Today Fails Marxism 101

okay kid

you got what you got my attention let's

see if you're gonna live up to it

so what's all this shit you're talking

about me with leftism with that fucking

guy fellow travelers

so so i really really really got pissed

off

when i saw that well are we going to

talk over each other

yeah we are because where would you yeah

okay bye retard

yeah you're going to talk over me what

an idiot because

i know what you're going to say you got

pissed off because i treated him because

he's an elder even i don't

yeah okay so let me ask you oh are you

done speaking i don't want to talk over

you

okay sorry it had not been a fucking day

since sansa

had fucking banned our fucking twitch i

stood up all fucking night fighting this

red to fucking

guy i stood up all fucking fucking night

doing it i didn't get any goddamn sleep

it had not been a fucking day that this

guy dms me and says

i challenge infrared to a debate

after i had said mind you after i had

said on stream

that here on out this is the policy if a

streamer

who is less than me and subscribers and

viewers average viewers

wants to debate me they have to get

through my community first

and the community has to tell me that i

should debate them and and better worth

my time

because sansa got our twitch suspended

and fucked us over that way and ambushed

me so i don't trust nobody at this

fucking point

and i said this before before he dm'd me

and by the way his dm said i didn't want

to have a discussion his dm said i

challenge you to a debate if he wants to

challenge me to a debate

why should i owe him anything if his

express fucking goal

is to beat me publicly why should i

fucking owe him anything

it had not been a fucking day that i'm

dealing with the sun saw bullshit

why the fuck should i deal with this guy

who just wants to cannibalize me

and steal my fucking clout because he's

fucking butthurt he doesn't get as much

views as i do and he wants to challenge

me to a debate about china

why is it an opportune time for him to

do that when i already have one

scheduled with comrade king

who's probably to my knowledge more

knowledgeable about that kind of shit

even if he wasn't besides the fucking

point why is this the opportune time to

fucking do this if he's a so-called

fellow ml and he's showing solidarity

what kind of fucking snake

challenges me to a debate when i'm in

the middle of the fucking heat

dealing with fucking bread tube explain

that to me okay first okay

first of all first of all you know

there's a difference between

pointing out your chat and saying hey

appeal to my chat

ones or twos in the chat like your

keemstar if someone should come on the

chat

and then there's also a difference

between rescheduling a debate if you say

hey i'm taking a lot of shit right now

then you can reschedule debate

you can also tell someone alternatively

that you don't want to debate about a

topic

instead of making someone beg you asked

him to beg you acted like a child

hey let me ask you a question what's

this what is value what does value mean

since you're marxist what does value

mean

what's your point well here we are guys

here we are this is the part where he

crumples what does value mean

what what how does mark's define value i

don't think you have an answer to that

question

yeah average quantities of unskilled

labor time it takes to freely reproduce

freely reproducible good in a given time

or place now we can define this in three

ways we can divide this into policy

capital and variable capital

what the fuck did you say he doesn't

know what i said because he doesn't

watch my video guys

average quantity so the average

quantities are measured in hours weeks

minutes etc of unskilled labor time the

reason why it's unskilled is because if

we open marks

for example i have capital volume one in

front of me if we open marks we have

simple

labor versus concrete labor now mark

says in the commodity chapter one

135 page simple labor simple average

labor

it is true varies in character in

different countries at different

cultural epochs but in a particular

society it is given

that means that simple labor is given

that means

that simple labor is universal you think

this is ambushing me all you fucking did

was spam a sentence

really fast all i heard was simple okay

is that what you're trying to say

okay average quantities right average

quantity so it's measured in

hours weeks etcetera right

of and honestly dude i don't wanna like

i'm gonna be real here for a second

right

i don't wanna i'm not even saying this

because i'm afraid i feel like a dumbass

fighting with you okay i feel like a

little kid i don't want to be a little

kid

let's not be located okay why do you

feel like a little kid

i feel like a little kid because i'm

yelling at someone on the internet at

one a.m

i feel like a lot okay though and you're

smarter than me so why are you scared

yeah well well look at how many views i

have calling you paper for tiger

versus how many views i said polite

criticism of you

i told them the discord i'm coming here

right now so they can watch yeah

so anyway that's why they're here and

you're chasing clout by the way you just

i'm not chasing clout i'm not chasing

you're chasing breadth cloud and you

said real marxists don't get clout what

the fuck are you doing right now

yeah yeah no hey chad notice how he's

obfuscating from the question

so average quantities it's measured in

hours weeks minutes etc

of unskilled labor time now let me

educate you for a second since you don't

know let me educate you so it's

we have complex labor which is concrete

smaller blocks of unskilled labor

and then we have unskilled labor now the

reason why we have unskilled labor

is because uh basically you can train

and he actually says in the first part

of volume one you can train a horse to

pull a carriage you can train a machine

to put

parts together i want to go back to your

definition

why is that value though why is that

specifically value

because that is the least common

denominator of commodity exchange

why is it value can you redefine your

wait what do you mean why is that value

value is not something you can arrive at

until after price it's not the same as

price but

there's yeah i realize that before price

price comes from value

price is the deviation from value i know

i know i know

but defining value defining value

without taking into account

what gives rise to price is fucking

impossible but

it's not getting the price yet what

gives rise i'm sorry you're just giving

you're just getting to some kind of

you're not getting to value you're

getting to some kind of substantial or

mechanical

uh labor process that is divorced from

the

value form the valuation form the value

form you can't talk about value without

value form

okay it's form so yes you can only do it

from a perspective that comes after

you take into account price even though

it's not the same as price

yeah i i agree you know price is the

deviation from value

if we look at the water diamond paradox

there's a reason why diamonds have a

like if you take the s if you take the s

is not the deviation from value

price exchange value is price and that's

indeed

sorry price is the only formal

expression value has

but value is not reducible to price

because

it's a more fun value means something

that's more fundamental than price but

at the same time

is only price this dialectical uh

paradox lacan calls it the non-all i

know you don't like nicola khan and all

that kind of stuff

but it's the non-all it's all and then

it's some of it is outside of it

and then all of it is within it it's the

non-all

that's the relationship between value

and price yeah but

reasonable to price but it is the

fundamental

thing that explains the rationality of

price what's behind

why certain prices are the way they are

ultimately not not in every instance but

ultimately like

for example from the aggregate

perspective

uh okay i turned you down your

definition

oh my definition you want well my

definition is literally marx's

definition by the way

no it's not yes it is your definition

didn't take into account

post price your definition is just the

average amount of labor it takes what

was you said to reproduce a commodity

measured in time

is that what you said more or less yeah

of unskilled labor time that's well

that's the

i i pose the definition of value the

same thing as value dude

you don't get to value until you have

value form it's not value yet we'll

define value form

uh okay give me a second because this is

really complex shit you want me to sum

up in a sentence so give me a fucking

sentence so my cpu brain

no no no no no no i'm not here i'm not

here i'm not here to do that i'm not

here to talk over

whatever i'm trying to help you give me

a fucking second to try to sum it up and

simply yeah i'm

i meant to say that i'm giving you a

second okay give me a second

okay i won't talk okay what is value

form

what is value form okay this is how i

put it

this is how i put it this is how i

explained it in communism state in class

this is value form value form

is the manner by is the manner by which

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labor things in reality

pass through the formalization

established by a polity by a polity

not a state per se but a policy that's

the value form

this is why currency is fundamentally

related

to pop politics in statehood that's how

i would define the value form

the value form is a fundamental

type of estrangement

between labor

and the manner by which it is given

expression in society

that's how i would put it so

i was crumbling like a cookie fiero he

asked me to fucking define the value for

him no i ask you define value

okay well you can okay well you can

define you can you have to write a book

to fucking describe it you wanted me to

do it

uh someone did already write a book it's

called the capital i know i can't write

a fucking book for you right now though

can i

no but you can describe it in one

sentence like i did no

i could dude you spent this whole

fucking time doing that

i did look at look at look at my stream

right now i did oh actually sorry this

isn't this isn't describing value theory

that was me in 30 seconds and mine was

still better than yours your whole

right yeah with the sutter's right i'm

gonna read your ms paint right now

let's see read your ms paint read my ms

pan read your ms paint okay

surplus value already wrong

okay so as surplus val is surplus value

um

is surplus value not value minus the

variable capital

do you know what variable capital is yes

i do know what is variable what is

variable capital

it's the fucking it's the measurement of

uh labor non-wages or whatever oh well

yeah it is the wage yeah

so how is it not how is it if we go to

the theories of surplus value right now

i can show you where marx

literally says that its value minus the

surplus

its value minus the uh minus the wage

the the sustenance of the worker

its value minus the sustenance of the

worker

where does mark say that i'm curious

there is a surplus value

okay let's go on through series of

surprises i want to see this formula

theories are certain

maybe you're right theories and you know

what man i don't like

i i honestly just got pissed off because

like that guy is a you know i understand

i understand that that guy

well it's important okay there's let me

go i'm typing right now

yeah it's not good to treat people that

you don't know that way it really isn't

that's not productive

i'm i'm googling as i talk by the way he

knew it he was he knew what he was doing

and he challenged me

well people can challenge other people

man i know you're we're both

he knew what my policy was about smaller

streamers challenging me

and he knew i was yeah well vosh is a

way bigger streamer than you that

doesn't make him right right

i mean what the fuck are you talking

about this was before samsung fucking

got my twitch suspended and i'm in

fucking

okay but we're not taunt sol bro i mean

i'm all i'm suggesting is that you'd be

nicer to other people

monday explicitly he wanted attention

he's he dmv in an unfriendly way he

wasn't friendly and he said

i challenge you to a debate about china

okay so what why do i owe him an

obligation to change the policy that i

established on

i think you have an obligation to defend

your beliefs i don't i already laid out

my policy

if you are a smaller get smaller viewers

than me and you're a smaller streamer

you have to go through my community

first

for now hold up on ironically find me a

pdf of theory

i literally can't find a pdf of theories

of surplus value in the chat right now

or i'm giving it to you in the discord

right here

okay oh yeah yeah thank you thank you

which section

uh i will have to find it it's been a

while

this is a really big book okay so which

which part

which section

i have to find it remember when i gave

you time give me some time

okay fear are you gonna say he's

crumbling now

i mean i can ask you about other stuff

but i won't pivot

no we're gonna sit up we're gonna stay

on this all right let me find it let me

find it

i know i archived it in a youtube video

so i'll find it

probably put in my labor theory value

video

[Music]

let me see

sorry remind me what we were doing again

we were uh looking for

remind me again you are reducing super

value to the formula

oh yeah it's a formula of um value minus

wage

wages and by the way how do we

denominate or measure value because it's

a mathematically i just told you how

no hours weeks value has to be a number

what is it a quantity of

it's equal to the equilibrium price

which is supply equal to demand

so value is the equilibrium price not

always it's not always the quantity

it's fixed it's fixed capital minus

variable capital equals surplus value

what do you mean by do you mean constant

capital what's that

you mean constant capital it's constant

capital plus surplus value plus surplus

value

or plus a variable capital that's what

you're saying is so that's what you mean

that's surplus value no sir no surplus

value is

value minus minus wage wages right

yeah let me fucking find a dude but what

is value that you're measuring what are

you measuring with value

in what way are you measuring value

because it's a math here i'll give you

i'll give you an example i'll give you

well

okay i'm i'm on okay like i'll give you

an example right

no no the math what's the math what's

the number what is oh well you can look

at a supply and dem well you can look at

a supply and demand chart of diamonds

and then you can hold uh you can plot

the equilibrium price on the supply and

demand where

uh supply and demand are equal and that

is exactly what value is right there

that equilibrium price

now price of what the price of what uh

for example diamonds

the price of pretty much anything that

isn't trademark anything that isn't

trademarked so when you said that

the labor theory of value doesn't apply

to tesla you were right

no no wait wait wait wait what minus

labor i'm asking you what

minus labor what minus labor equals

value

no you said surplus value equals value

minus wages

right yeah okay we can measure wages

we can't wait to measure terms of the

price oh i

understand okay that is the value of the

worker

now you're asking how that's measured

right yeah okay well then

well i just i told you how it's measured

no you didn't yeah because it's a

mathematic formula so we have to measure

it in some way

i mean i can give you the mathematic

formula from capital i don't fucking

know that off the top of my head i don't

know the exact formula on the dot minus

your uh formula for value was already

disproven

sorry yes it was because your formula of

value doesn't take into account

that value is always a value form do we

okay do we agree first of all do we

agree that value

um comes from the socially necessary

labor time do we agree with that

yes that's where it comes from so okay

socially necessary labor time so you're

talking about the value form so you've

added the word form

to value i'm not i'm not calling you

dishonest i'm just saying that we're

talking about

otherwise it's just labor there's no

value in communism dude

so yeah

there's no value in communism dude yeah

i know that the reason why there's no

value

the reason why there's no value stalin

was writing about

the ways in which the socialist economy

is moving beyond

value yeah the law of value so i agree

is unique to the value form so your

definition of value is incomplete well

show me where mark's wrote about the

value form

dude marx writes about this in

grundrusse he writes about it in capital

he just doesn't write a fucking bread

tube definition

and that's not how mark's dude why are

you why are you why are you saying it's

a bread tube definition it's literally

the difference

that's not how marx gives expression to

his ideas it's just not

well we'll see about that i mean okay

show me where marx defines communism uh

socialism he just gives a sentence he

says this yeah i'll show you okay

please please please please please okay

um you might nitpick though

because uh he doesn't ex

well first of all words change right we

can agree that word's changed no no i

want to see where you he gives a

scholastic definition

okay well it depends on how you mean

okay okay i'll stop talking i'll stop

talking shut up

what are you talking about he's not

giving a definition of socialism uh yeah

he is between capitalists and communist

assad

what when what between capitalist and

communist society there lies a period of

revolutionary transformation one into

the other corresponding to this

it's also political transformation which

is the revolutionary dictatorship

proletariat

that's where you find social definition

of socialism well

socialism revolutionary declaration of

the proletariat i mean that's what i

call social media that's the definition

of soldiers where's your

yeah uh yeah mark's also called hey mark

also calls himself a social democrat are

we social democrats now

uh lenin also called himself a social

democrat the definition of socialism

i just explained to you that you're

going to nitpick and say that

dude but i just asked you for a simple

definition of socialism laid out by marx

nowhere is mark saying give me okay give

me marx's definition of socialism then

give me it

saying mark doesn't give expression to

his ideas in the bread tube way

what do you talk he literally just said

here in a fucking sentence that this is

what it is

yeah and sorry i don't mean to take that

sentences the what

but that sentence is in the context of

him critiquing

a god of the program of a fucking party

so he's not giving a scholastic

definition

of a word no no he says it clearly he

says

between capitalist and communist society

there's a period of transformation of

one to the other is he saying

is he saying the definition of socialism

is as follows

no we can call it socialism we can call

it eggplant or aubergine this is what i

mean by socialism is socialism not the

dictatorship the proletariat

is socialism not the transformation of

capitalism it's the communism angles

we're not

anal about the word the meaning of the

word socialism yeah they use them

interchangeably but this is where

yeah so we agree so you're telling me to

you should show the exact word socialism

and then you're saying

well they weren't anal about the word

socialism communism well i just gave you

an exact definition in sentence in words

that's literally today my whole

my whole point is that marx does not

give expression to his ideas

in the form of discreet anglo

definitions like bread tube does and how

you do

well sorry but he i mean he literally

did no he does no he didn't

you're seeing on screen right now how he

isn't you're seeing on screen how

right now how he isn't doing that right

now it's on screen

nowhere does he say that this is my

definition of

oh by the oh sorry are you talking why

is he saying this okay why is marxism

why is he saying it is he saying it to

define socialism

well he's saying it to define the

transformation of capitalism into

communism you can call that whatever you

want but i just call that socialism

why is he talking about that because

he's critiquing the

german social democratic party okay

exactly so the significance of this

is not to give a definition of socialism

it's to make a point of some kind

so but i just asked you to name me a

place in which marx

gives definitions like how you're asking

for

uh i mean he gives definitions of use

values

uh you want that what's that he gives it

he gives the definition of a use value

you want that

yeah okay admittedly he does for use he

also gives a definition of

capital to be fair in capital though

marx does

say let's define use value in this way

and then let's

deal with exchange yeah i i i totally

agree that it's his own definitions and

he completely made the term use value up

that's his own term that's

why that's why that's why that's why he

had to define it because he made the

term up so he wanted to just

make it clear to the audience what he's

trying to talk about

okay but marx does not deal

in fucking uh definitions like how

you're saying like

let's define value in the following way

the concept of value

marx is taking from the schools of

political economy he's implicitly

acknowledged

acknowledging that value is something

we all understand implicitly and he

develops what value is

not by giving a sentence but throughout

his entire project

throughout capital as a project is where

is how he's defining value

at no point does marx actually say this

is exactly what value is and i challenge

you to find me

where he where he says where he does do

that yeah i can actually

okay please please please okay where

mark says this is exactly what value is

as a definition

i'd love to please please i'm curious

either yeah please

well right here he says let me find it

can you please put it on screen

oh no i have a physical copy of capital

i mean i can go control that for it

okay let me pull it up on screen then

where is it please can you not put it up

uh

okay get the pen yeah i'll put it up on

screen okay let's do that

all right

oh fucking bite my fingernails too much

um penguin classics capital volume one

can't see what i'm typing

no no no no because i need the pdf of

the exact version i have because it has

the same page number

um as my bookmark tell me the phrase and

i'll just keyword it and

marks as well yeah yeah yeah it might be

different because of translations but

and it's capital volume one yes capital

volume one

okay let's go

and pull it up on screen please so give

me the phrase while

while you're waiting for it okay um

suppose

two equal quantities of social which

part oh sorry

um this is uh commodities of money or

marine this is money in the circulation

of commodities which i think is like

part two

okay money in the circulation

commodities i'm right there okay give me

the phrase

uh suppose two equal quantities

suppose to equal okay and uh

which exact phrase in your view

is where mark says this is value this is

what

value is if the

uh let me find it the magnitude of a

value of a commodity therefore expresses

a necessary relation to the social

necessary time which is inherent in the

process

of why which value is created is that is

that

yeah the magnitude of the value of a

commodity so how much

he's talking about okay

[Music]

i'm gonna have to give you multiple

places though is that okay because he

doesn't

okay okay okay leftism today i hope the

chat has learned an important lesson

right now what's up you have to give me

multiple places

okay first of all the commodity 129 page

spell it out as simple as you can why

did martial because okay this is how

because this is how he wrote capital he

wrote capital with starting off with a

commodity all the way to the division of

labor and manufacturing i

said i said marx does not give

expression to his ideas in the way you

do

and now you're agreeing i understand

okay i understand what you're saying so

let me i want to understand your point

because i am an honest person

what you're saying is that marx does not

define stuff

in a single sentence that's what you're

saying yes i agree with that

i agree with that find stuff in a single

sentence he doesn't

he doesn't premise his use of words

by scholastic definitions whatsoever for

marx a definition is something that must

be developed

dialectically well

oh i mean now that i think about it i

mean yeah

i mean i can just like with me now you

can so is it fair to say that i don't

know anything

about what i'm talking about and i

completely don't understand marxism at

all

well no it's not fair and i'm wrong

obviously but look at how many people

came on look at look at how you came on

huh and i could explain myself and i can

explain fellow travelers position

isn't it funny how it works the internet

okay

you have it you okay so you want to

apologize for this uh yeah of course

i apologize for slandering you do you

want to apologize for slandering me and

fellow traveler

i don't think i slandered them well okay

i won't say slander

do you wanna do you wanna okay i don't i

don't want you to apologize

do you agree to i understand the

circumstances that you had

do you i hope well no no i want you

to go forward in your live streams and

talking to people because

you know i actually went through this

whole thing on my channel where i was

trying to

get all of the marxist youtubers

together in a video conference

sorry i don't mean to go on a test if he

said i just want to come on and talk

that's fine but a debate is something i

have to prepare for

okay a debate especially with someone

like that

where i'm not just going to be able to

roll over them

i don't expect to just roll over them

like the bread to people out of respect

i don't expect to just yell at them and

roll over them and get gotchas

i want to prepare for this so i can

comprehensively

clarify my position on china

okay yeah i respect that conceptually

theoretically i want to lay it out

so i can say it simply and concisely

okay

okay now something like that a debate

like that which i'm already preparing

for with comrade king

which i already promised him something

like that

that's a challenge okay before i can

commit to that

i need to know i don't even know who he

is i don't know the scene on youtube

so i need to know that my community

wants it

and thinks it's necessary because a lot

of people who come to debate me

say things that even my community knows

better

yeah yeah so

all i wanted all i wanted to all i

wanted to encourage you to do

was to look at people

well i i understand what you just said

let me think of something to say

i guess your community i'm going to be

honest with you

your community is very xenophobic and i

don't mean that in a racial way

i mean that in the outsider way you

cannot do the opposite of a mccarthyism

by assuming everyone is spread to that

is not

healthy because when i went on your

stream now i'm in war mode i'm in war

mode right now

okay and i hope and anybody who has the

minimum of respect for me

would understand that if they watched my

video about sansa and how disgusting in

the fucking lengths they went to

to take down our twitch yeah i

okay well i understand that well

i get that so i

i mean i hope you i hope you i hope you

understand that there are people out

there who

disagree with you and want to talk to

you and you know what just tell them

i don't feel like debating because

personally man i don't think the whole

begging thing with me

and well we already established it's not

fellow travel right i don't think the

whole begging thing is good

okay man listen man if and here's some

advice if you want

to get more attention for your channel

don't come at me man

don't come at the future because i we

are the future at infrared okay

don't be coming at me for attention you

know because oh sorry we are the future

but it's not like we're already

established why don't you hone in on

your sharp and uh

this is my advice to you sharpen your

skills to come at bread too because

bread tube are still the people in

charge

when i become the established guy and i

have 500

000 uh subs maybe then you can you can

try to come at me and sharpen your

skills but why don't try to kill us in

our cradle dude

this is just the beginning of infrared

so that everyone can see this as

pathetic

don't be doing this shit man don't be

talking shit about us like all these

uh s uh b uh c tier

bread tube streamers are because we're

the talk of the town right now okay

if you want to see marxism leninism go

mainstream just the name marxism

leninism you don't have to fucking agree

with us

just don't talk shit about us dude okay

you can disagree with us but we're

making this shit mainstream

okay we want to bring this up we want to

bring this this that stratosphere unless

you're happy with the scene now with

bread tube and shit

don't come after us like this all right

let me just say something

there's a reason why i titled this video

infrared as a paper tiger there's a

reason why i started this video off

talking shit about you

you know why you know why it's because i

knew

that's how you would come on what did i

do the other the other time

i acted like i said i acted with

civilization okay if you do this again

well obviously i'm not gonna do this

again tonight i'd prove the point

sorry okay if you do this again it's not

gonna end like how good tonight okay

okay well just know that i'm your friend

and all i did was prove a point

okay okay okay that's fine and i don't i

i don't i literally don't give a shit

about clout i played copyrighted music

at the beginning of this video but

obviously

as you can see i do care about this and

you know what

if you want to lead uh your channel

100 i support you and you know what i

just want to say since i have you here

your channel

is literally what i wanted a couple like

five or six months ago i wanted a

channel where everyone just got together

and just posted on one discord and i

don't mean to blow smoke up your ass but

i actually do mean that

yeah now kiss but anyway all i mean to

say is that

i know you're in attack mode but you

also have to

look out for other people and in in

lasting lasting lasting lasting lasting

try to give a handout to other people

that's all i want to say and i

understand he was trying to debate you i

understand that that was the wrong thing

for him to do

we can have criticisms but that's the

last thing okay that's that's fine

but i since we're growing with such

success

instead of coming at us learn from us

something we're doing that's working

okay something that we're doing is

working

i know and i hope you i hope you know

and i don't want this to seem like a

meme or a cop-out

it's true i started this live stream

with hey if this guy isn't going to

fucking talk to me when i'm being nice

i'm going to be a dick to him

and then look at where you're at you're

right here with me so you know

okay so that's all i say anyway i'll let

you go that's

that's all i got for tonight

okay is there anything else anything

else we want to say to chat

i'm glad i'm glad you apologized yeah of

course

i'm not afraid to i'm not afraid to

apologize i'm glad you took back the

idea that

you know i don't know anything about

marxism because we both know that's not

true

yeah oh well yeah so

yeah yeah summer freestyle debate me

infra

i'm not on stream right now what do you

want to debate about i'm not going to

debate you on this guy's stream

i gotta go now yeah okay

yeah amer why don't you come in our

discord and if you want a quick

chat with me maybe come in general and

when i eat while i'm eating dinner right

now

i'll i'll see if i can chat with you

okay how about you do that

by the way i'm not wearing any hats

so stop talking your nonsense in this

okay sure yeah okay i'm gonna go now

alright see you bro thank you