NEVER STOP WINNING [2021-09-10]

fore the na thank youa gota time me should have shot it w th me should have s probably bucker in a lobby i'm a gang member bi so you know i got it on

i don't do to him or do say living in the what the fuck of the sucase bench on to kick it like a first nam way i do say my brother got a song travel past t you as home which aur traveling a coning got a coo group of the photy o fy back im i have to kill him if the thing which ar jacket as erry clanrir sly which i itch please for you speak get kick back when come outside we and it some s john and they go out a back

never allow hed like you can just a ay looks like you can low and looks like you can people do it gaming and sjit just mo alittle cat on pap on and it's so fucking hot i don't know why let me check the pucking a scen im just tying to catch aurvive give a cholie but i' got to jop on me go flip the whole party me for the nicor oh man a shok guys

i have a fever i might have got gover it not you know i got it on me i do an irot amm m i do irot tomorrow oh shit all right

okay

okay

now we're good

all right le me just

alright

where do i start reading m l theory pll me

the fam we're going to watch that shit and it sad all right i'm still fucking hos man

oh man i don't know what it is i think i overslept might have overslept oh rightver i slept for three hours yesterday you know you know what where were you guys i don't know

yesterday i slept for three hours i debated on three hours of sleep zero preparation against people who were very prepared by their team and then i went on circus royal and people were

complaining that i'm low energy we're going to get back on our grind guys minimum minimum

minimum eight hour stream today minimum eight hours eight hour minimum stream today minimum eight

minimum eight hours i watch the rest of the royaly no no w i you can i have time to do that i worked out today and that's it

the messeno sid

you can wait

care

he here here

so he can oh man its a liutle

its a mornment

welcome we're going to check the redit we're going to check the redit soon

were going to check the red it

i to waterbots

i have two water bottles the fog this one's hot and this one's colduse me oh my god it's not wa i use it for the royal what i'm just gkidding i'm gketting

i'm just gkidding i'm just gketting joke probably not even allow last time i drank alcohol was years ago years ago

that was years ago

the lighting last night looked like i had a shaved head ow

so

subscribe to infrared p l s

to

stu nosts the go the f should we watch the mold book thing before after hippie didy hippy dippy listen guys if hippie

diff he's boring i'm going to dip it's got to be content because remember the last one wasn't that it wasn't that good you know

should i show up like this so i just show up there without a shirt the collective of any videos coming out yes

gow to get into this mentalityro the red it's looking super boring

a cergus which inentangle

what is this

blls what do you doing

what the fuck is this shit

someone made a video infrared as rising

ee

s what are you doing come do content with me i'm doing a twenty four hour historama

your one chance for it what is this man

the fuck is this

in love no he's not if he wasn't fock in love then he'd call me right now don't you dare say he's in

you think i have good intentions with

how did you guys know that d m with the fu

how did you guys

i didn't show you the d m

how did you guys even know about that

we can greepy jet

the what

ll a creepy

you absolutely not absolutely not and you're making me hpe and for you after the bathroom a white

this is

six minutes long

withlo buck mad this

literally who the fulk made this shit honestly

six minutes long

what is this

oka word out don't say that no no no no no no don't say that don't say that what do you say

something that don't as you many thank you're not he's a good guy he would never w the fuck is wrong with your chat

what's going on i don't know i literally don't know

's just i have found you slightly interesting yeah to say the least say theat but that's also you're fucking persistence and whatever and you don't like that

so let me let's continue w you go and talk to my y yah be kind ook at now it just between you i was pretended to be nice to you because your mom was around she will never ever love you she will never care about you she love me way way more than you and she doesn't even know your guyss name you know what you look like apologize

and then you come ord with you know then i wit hang up excuse me you will hang up on me and shoot yourself in t your own prince well there was ay talking to you ho how a wonderful day ginal when a'm i going to clean my room i don't want you know when i stop waking up the press every poskle day

i think this is a double

you know what would have been a massive w yeah

if i called you and then like a normalus same human being because we've been through this whole ring role like a few times nh

would have just been like yah let's talk about normal shit i can see that you're doingd you haved you have a goodime

and you were smiling and enjoying yourself all ti

okay

and then

one last thing

one last thing one lasting good bye no noaying not fucking up not fucking up to the board

stay here p on me doesn't matter no no i'm not going to hang up on you i'm not going to ng up on you stop you need futing bill trust withthingkay

i barely asked you anything about you ok i know

and now i want to know how was your date

days been really fun

j

we got i got to w do not hang up on me you i got the w you undertand i've got the w i do not take else

easy though i do not take ells

hold on guys wait

youy see that guy astro in the chat

hes that's a perma

did you know that was a perma

that's actually a perman

that's not like a two week time out that's not a

our time up that's a that's a perma

see

you don't do that shit my chat

don't do that shit in my chat that's a perma

i promise you that' was a perman

i guarantee you that's a perman

it's a permanent ban

so guys another thing i've been thinking about

another thing i've been thinking about follo words well yesterday for the dad't remember when they were making fun of me beuse i don't have followers i need followersre making fun of me for my lack of followers know that

there mak in fun of me so i got followers i need more followers you know what i'll let it happen organically it's not even healthy i need followers simple as that there right i should be at a hundred cak followers right now that's what i thought to's going on

i need followers that's right i need some followers immediately thse bucked up guys the content i did yesterday in no way helps the stream you notice that the content

i did yesterday in no way helps the stream you guys didn't even watch it yesterday guys didn't even see it

the debate

i didn't gain anything from it

i only lost from it youaw i want to talk about it a little b let me talk about it i thought it was gonna be wat like i thought like they were really gonna

because they were they were making posters for it like we're going to crash and for interrupted logo so much yeah i know

i feel bad cause a

i feel bad that a you tube mirror sa it on a you tube stream mirror i don't know anything about that but all i can say is that you gover to make a few comments i don't know i'm all the substantive

points and here's the sub the points the relationship between capitalist and fascism the reasons why capitalism needs war and the differences with china i think on those three points like me and logo onant we just prevailed you know

i don't i can't see it any other way the stream became kind of pedagogical at a certain point just learning about marxism which is fine but there's just a lot of ignorance about marxism and then finally

the weird thing to me is it is the racial stuff honesty it's weird to me i don't get it i don't it seems like that you know it's just seems sad like this idea of the need to have ethnic and racial purity for its own sake it just seems really sad to me

yeah i don't get that i feel like if a people are secure in themselves and you have real pride in your own tradition and country you are not going to be so scared of others and you're not going to be so like neurotic about purity you know you're going to be confident in your yourself you know

and dude then they started talking about genes and i'm like what what the fuck is traditional about genes like i want to preserve my genes what does that even mean that's literally modern science

i don't know i just think a lot of right wingers just seem like they have an edge to them like

it just

they' little too excited

you know what i mean like

it's the kind of anti semitic theories they have and

the racial stuff it's like they're kind of perverted a little bit right

they' like a little too excited about these things and they just

they just can't help themselves that's why that's why a lot of them do get banned honestly because they can't help

tion

but like say the n word and shit like that you know

they just have this edge like they just have this edge about them you know just this like

jumpy edgy thing

like it's tough for me to understand so a lot of right wingers they remind me of anarchists there arey of leftists like there's so hyper they have this tension they can't just like sit back and chill like i feel like if i sat with these guys to have a cigar the whole time they would be on edge like and they'd be like do it

talking about like

anti semitic paranoid theories and the big beculd' just chill dude it's not that deep there's nothing there you know i don't know it seems really weird it is it is what the psycho out psychoanalytic perspective it's anal fixation hundred percent anal fixation hundred percent anal fixation

see i have the badgenal fixation or the genital fixation so i'm in the vaginal stage royd says there's three stages the oral stage the anal stage in the genital stage right me i'm in the genital stage and what that means is basically like i got pussy on my mind and basically i'm at ese you know i'm saying i'm at

ease i'm just chilling i'm smoking my cigar i'm at ease but these people they have a nal stage disorder and

i don't know that's only applies to straight people too the freud stuff

kimberdy

wasn't the whole oral annal general disaproven

i guess but it still makes sense to me you know they were norder century i don't know

there nordicys that's not true dude i know nordic people i know people from northern europe who are super chill and know how to just be men and just chill

you know

it's like what kinda i don't here what i don't get

it's just weird to just always be obsessed with jewish people and black people it's like only someone who has no confident sense of self is obsessed with that you know like who cares dude would you go to a sona naked yeah that's why dud ea

culture is way less racist and i'll tell you why there's a lot of racism now but dude the way it was in the past you just go to the market the bazaar and you had all sorts of people who look different and they have different religions and they look different and you don't fixate on it you just ignore it like who cares what's the big deal you know i mean who gives a fug i don't

why do you have to focus on it focus and obsess over it and this goes for both the right wingers and the lefties they both obsess over it they don't know how to be at ease with just different people you know they just do not know how to be at ease with other people same way in the soviet union yeah that it is it was su the soviet union dude

like for example in the soviet union there was a lot of jewish people in the soviet union and nobody you didn't talk i talk to jewish people from the soviet uny tell me you know it's just there was like a fusion you even notice you know people t go about their business the goh you're jewish ok oh you're from kazakhstan ok oh you're from whatever ok like you don't obsess

over it either or you just get over it you know we come from different backgrounds you know arab fathers arab fathers do not usually want their kids

to marry outside the culture and as simple as and i understand that i understand that even within the religion right but within the religion is usually you'll you'll be fine right but it'll just be like the'll be a little bit rocky but ultimately w'll be fine but like if youre from it from if you're

you from come an air family you just marry like an american guy who's like you you will probably be excommunicated from the family i'm not going lie not going li you you will be excommunicated from that family thank you lois evns i grewup

in eastern europe it was the same with sex gender only experience the male femal hyperfockus on the internet that's true

that's super true actually

yeah

guys what do you think i'm talking about when i talk about civilization just a question like what do you think i'm talking about

do you think i'm talking about just

buildings in schit no i'm talking about the subtle ways human beings interact with each other

i'm talking about

like how do you deal with people from other backgrounds how do you interact with the opposite sex how do you what is how do you relate family to society that's what civilization means ok

the truth is thank you lose heavens appreciate you is not culture no because civilization is how people relate to this central state that unifies their society

bing

so it's more than just culture it's deeper

but here's the problem is america doesn't have a civilization we don't have civilization

america just has a state we don't have a civil society we literally just have a state that has a sad gunpoints like fall the lg go to jail and there's no organic way that we have norms that are reconciled with laws it's just every time you see a police officer you get nervous right

i get nervous even if i'm not doing anything wrong and the reason for that is because we don't have a civilization we have no civilization ho do we change this there's so much confusion about this patriotism stuf people are so confused right and i'm

to clear up some confusion so to be clear wt to be clear about something right are you saying we should save the american empire no we can't stop act this is the problem with moraalsm the problem with moralism is people who act

like you can just do anything the most pressing issue for communism right now or marxism whatre you want to call it is the issue of morality what is communist morality because people need to understand what morality is and let me explain what morality means morality is that aspect

that can't be reduced to the natural external chain of causes that's morality morality is when

we have a will and we are faced with a choice and with that choice we must act

right

what is the problem with having as the foundation of your entire reality pure morality

i'll give you an example

the landback

jason ki settlership

so here's the issue right this is what's so bucked up about left this is the issue with moralism i'll explain it so hundreds of years ago and throughout the u s government and the british and the europeans committed grave injustices from our perspective just crimes just horrible crimes against humanity horrible barbarism

horrible evil we all know that right but the issue is these people are trying to address that from morality and will so what does that amount to the united states of america as a state and any acknowledgement of it is treated as a moral issue and in that

that way regular ordinary working americans are being morally condemned

they're moralizing youa bad person ya s it's not like they're doing this impartial material analysis

they are it's like it's really evil they're doing two things on the one hand they're making it seem like settler colonialism is an objective material phenomena that has lasted hundreds of years and is not reducible to conscious intent and on the other hand they're treating it as if it's the result of a moral error and it's a moral issue that needs to be rectified and the result is this really

p up form of institutionalized terrorism against the people they have unlimited excuse to basically beat down the american people because they're evil settleer colonialist with their original sin and what's so ironic about this is that the way these leftists who say they hate america are acting is literally a

american protestantism one on one it's the issue of the original sin that we fallen from and we are forever contaminated by this original sin and that our moral will is just helpless and if the only thing we can only find salvation in the pure morality of lefts

you guys ever seen that movie called i forgots calls called feed on netflix definitely a c o s movie you cant watch that on which so there is this hannibal guy in germany and he cut off his dick in the movie and he had someone cut off his dick to eat he invited a guy over he said cut off my dick and he put it on the stove and

eat it the police found the guy tied up and he's like i want to be i wan be and that's literally what these leftists remind me of that's literally what they are s follw you know what i mean that's literally i

nw they are have you seen the matrix trailer yeat guys i spent a few days ago i was in circus discord with cerco we were in his v c with like twenty other people and i was talking to zirc about flat earth and we watched it there this is why islam is based

not an inheritable and there's no original sent yet there's a com islam has a completely different moral framework and that's why i have such trouble understanding americans left is because i have to tell them guys i'm a muslim i'm not a calvinist you know i don't understand your idea of morality from a muslim perspective your idea of morality makes no

no sense to me but what also bothers me is that there are so many second

generation or what is it first generation people born here from immigrant parents muslims in america who are literally being mentally brainwashed

by american leftism and they're completely betraying their own spiritual and civilizational roots

and they're just adopting american leftism because american leftism tokenizes them as like an identity and like oh i'm a muslim and i can climb the career ladder with that identity and they like they use it to get ahead in their careers schools and they need american leftism to do that you know are you an atheist or muslim

the only way to be a muslim is be an atheist if you're not an atheist in twenty twenty one

as a muslim

you are a protestant calvinist christian

who just is adopting a muslim flavor yes dude listen i will tell you where i am spiritually i

i will tell you where i am spirit where i am spiritual there i i know

this is why

this is why i believe in america right i've been thinking about what is the fuck is america right what is america

what is america i've been thinking about it

because i can't discern an american state with any you know real civilizational foundation it's an empty negation the american state is purely negative it has no determinaned

content right american states basically just as the union it literally just means the union of states and those states in turn just guarantee negative freedoms so what is america america but now i realize there is a reality to america and i realize that stranding has the key

the game ust stranding america is a name for the land

the new world andmerica america is always the disclosure of the land america is the geography it's the geology it's the environment it's the it's like america is the

land of america that from seaboard from seaboard to seaboard that's america america is the idea of the new world that's what i'll say america is the idea of the new world specifically the land of the new world and one of the reasons i hate left

this who are adopting indigenous aesthetics is because they're actually repeating the dog matic prejudice of americanism because they're treating indigenous people as part of the land the whole point the whole reality of america is the idea of the land if we want to overcome that you can't

treat indigenous people like their animals who are just part of the land they are related to this land and much of the land belongs to them and their people i understand that but they are a people they are a people who deserve to be the subjects of their own civilization and state and reality that's

why i have such distaste or this fetisization of indigenous people because they're being treated like they're part of the landscape fod i listen i am big into american kis right like you ever see these american

kiy shee and they're beautiful i love them don't don't get me wrong i love it i mean it may be racist and

you know bad but

i it's it hits close to home because it's my childhood right

like going up north and you go to a like restaurants

where it's there're these log cabins and they got the owls and the animals and they also have the native chief

statue and it's like all part of the scenery

i mean

if if you want to if you want to talk about

like racism against indigenous that's pretty much

where it is

right it's like this idea that indigenous people are just part of the land and they're not the land belongs to them or some of it does at least but they're not a feature of the american land that's what you have to step out of the's going to be a holy roman empire as confederation of smaller

autonomous states then washington drove the formation of a proper america washington was the mao of america mao crushed the warlors united china washington crushed the autonomous bureaucrats in united america that's what i'm saying right the idea of america is the land in a relation to the land ah

that's what i believe when it comes to america every country today has in america china has in america when china is making new discoveries when china is engaging in big infrastructural and geoengineering and whatever

hydrological projects and solar projects

they are

facing america their own america their own kind of new frontier right this disclosure of a new frontier china has already assimilated its own america to me the idea of america still has merits i still do believe in america i do but in the sense here's what i think about it in the sense

of debt stranding where america will be reduced to its connection america will be reduced to america's infrastructure the thing that connects us infrastructurally that will be america the highways the telecommunications that's where there will be the state the united states of america the united states

of america will be the united infrastructure of america now the question of land ownership can be different maybe we can give mexico

maybe we can give texas and southern california back to mexico maybe we can give a lot of land even more than they need to the indigenous right and we can we can let them

actually govern the land in the living space

but the idea of america as the connection the union the union state

i think remains

and i think the communist party of the usa

should embody that

it should strive to seize hegemony

over

this specific interpretation of the american idea

instead of thinking about america as a

w

freedom and democracy and whatever joe biden said the communist party say no the meaning of america is not liberty and democracy in these catch phrases the real meaning of a united states of america is united states it's a union state so china the civilization state right china is a state that encompasses a very ancient

and lindi civilization america has no civilization but it has a union it's a union state now what the culture is going to look like what the civilization will be like i agree hispanic and latin america can lead the way from the south they can lead the way indigenous people maybe can lead the way as well in their own way

ah other ethnic groups can lead the way

to create the foundations of their own civilization and we will see we don't know what the civilization will look like right but what matters as far as united states of america is concerned is having a united states a union just a union that's my ideal of america

the u s r addressed many of the issues viaut ono his republics yeah and you know it to me the idea of america is a highway from seaboard to seaboard we will facilitate the flow of goods from seaboard to seaboard that's to me the idea of america facilitate the flow of goods from seaboard to sea

board that's what america means that will be its future for the world america can still be a place of discovery and innovation and investment foror the real civilizations of the world but i one thing i'm clear about

the american empire must be

destroyed i don't think it'll have to be destroyed because it's going to collapse

but

america as a

unit as a polarity as an empire that ruled right that governs the world that must be eliminated absolutely absolutely must be eliminated

it will be eliminated i agree but america as a union state from seaboard to seaboard is silitating the flow of goods for global commerce and industry and aiding the development of countries in its own way

i agree with this idea of america

yes legit debt straining connect the world exactly create

a transsiberian american railroad a railroad from russia through alaska through canada to america

also connecting china asia to the new world

from seaboard to seaboard that's what i believe in

that was really honestly guys that was really what it was supposed to be

that's what it was supposed to fuking be that was thank you mercurialp preciate you that's literally a rous platform i know that's where i got the idea from

i know what la roue dude i know about him he's not like some one i don't know about i know about him i i

i agree with a lot of the things he says not everything but about this side his understanding of history of america i really do agree with it listen because he's just because he's right right

but

listen america

was always supposed to be that

during lincoln's time lincoln was going to link up with the czar of russia at the time

and they were going to form a connection and this would have been progressive for russia and would have been good for america it would have helped aid the russian revolution so there was going to be a connection guess wo fuck that connection guess who fuck that connection up we were literally going to link up with russia through alaska

and have industrial mutual development guess who fucked it up

guess to fonght it up

britain created canada so that couldn't happen they literally created canada so that russia and america could never link up

you got a chill julo you're a fucking mod dude jill

just speak about the facts of history

that was ultimately whole of the emenci aation proclamation show soliday with russia during the civil war yes you supported lincoln russia did russia supported lincoln

britain and france were supporting the confederacy

and russia was one of the only places

that' curiously

decided to support

the union

you want to know lse who supported the union by the way

was the turks

the ottomans the ottomans also supported the union

it's almost like

these

world historical asian empires were sympathetic with lincoln's cause

you ever noticed that

all of the real asian empires were sympathetic to the or support of the union outright yeah yeah did bakun in support the confederates no he didn't i think i was prot on here joseph pro on support the confederates i'm pretty sure

france lly support of the creation of the us that god that's n were talking about id it that's notre falking talking about you think you're smart and you're correcting me and yet you make an an embarrassment of yourself because that's not what we're

talking about we're talking about the civil war bucking get with the program and canada was never near the west coast until the late nineteenth century yeat what does it have to do with the fucking fact that canada was literally created to fil plans between russia and america which is a historical fact you're the fucking historically a illiterate one here you talk about shit that's not even

fucking relevant how on morn right here's your he's your options go get in my discord v c and debate me about this and we're going to see how much knowledge you have or in the meantime you're banned from my fucking chat buk out a year

anything anything

hold on

incorrect i used to teach history ok on what point amy incorrect about go ahead on which point a my own coorrect name the point i'm incorrect about name it gohad and name it fuk i forgot to order food

name the point though go ahead name it

is turkey really as asian as though like russia good if anything it's more asian than russia as russia has a european aspect to it d the fuck are you talking about

ma get some food see the stars of the future

i'm just meaning someone said you were correct you teach histrey are you going over the mold bog thing well the debates going to be at eight minutes so we don't have time but i'm going to go over thank you gorilla get were go over it afterah i think we're going to have a long stream today guys it's only been an hour we're going to do seven more hours we're going to do a long stream let me see

can i commit to that

it's eight now four hours was twelve plus three is three am wow till three am i might do that eating bs what of wre you debating don't worry don't worry i'm debating a bunch of

you know don't worry about it ok don't worry about it i got it locked down i would never ever ever lose as in bites i know you would never ever you would get embarrassed like how can my man be a loser right so don't worry about it

you willing to have joel on your show yes if he is not banned if he's banned i can't how maybe you two i don't know i won't embarrass you inky don't worry

all right should i just show up like this with no shirt should i put a shirt on i don't show up like this everyone o let's do this i'm going to join

the hippy dihippy podcast

the fuck is this man

ah no

everyone but becaus

how much ho dry your hair and de black you look like rescue theme you are you willing to talk to yougn yes yes i am absolutely

thank you gorilla grip i can you have believe i used to be hesitant about talking to do be ill like w i really want to talk to him you know he's kind of as soociated with the far right is now i'm like super like yes i'm going to talk with you there are no there's no left to speak of i'm not betraying anything we just have free thinkers you know

interesting ideas but i have to i'm going to check and see if which is ok with it because i don't want to you know which has to be ok with it all

ultimately

you know it's not really

f the

you know what you know know if anything i will talk to him

on youtube because you tube is completely fine

for sure

you cancell talk about pages in ano

thank you a satiric appreciate you

okay i can join now

to like

get up to like the level where

you know

you've got everything maw

then we're talking

potentially

upwards

like

made

or figures even five

you know depending on how ked it out

dirly i like the r g b

all my parts i believe add up especially if you

froze

monitor lighting

mike ever

that

i'm definitely

five

but i've been building it up

so it's not as impressive as oh i spen

ten grand or more on a

on a on computer parts and built it all right then and there all at once but i mean it's uh

my whole setup is

pretty crazy

and it's still not goet a

still can't stream rust

i need to

oh man

yeah that's the thing you always you always got to keep growing keep climbing

you know it's a terrible time to be

it's a terrible time

we need to wait for the market

why

so

m s r b on graph

hard

in the

and also

hopefully

mean

ping on your opinion

mark

if invideo goes through with

hert

think west

finally

you know

m dot to drives and things like that

so i mean like i think you're probably your best butt

have some

holding

and waiting until

tell you know

am d's next generation a process

march

and waiting until maybe there's less of a s

t

alright we're like

now on person

it feels like we're in a position when it comes to computers where m

like i don't think getting a thirty ninety and any better of a c p u is going to help me with things that i need to perform better like being able to stream rust is a big one like that

that is really hard to want a single p c set up even with like a thirty ninety because the game is so poorly optimized

like right now i am prioritizing a second computer to handle all the streaming effort

and just using this computer is the main one over getting like a thirty nine dy or a better c p i've got a like ris in nine thirty nine hundred x in here c pu yse a twenty eighty for the graphics card

thirty two gigs of like pretty damn good r g b lit ram

and and it's well cold and everything it's just i don't think upgrading parts of this points going to do anything for me i want to do here tonight was a bigger benefit out of going to a seccond p anddle this on reming

you know what's up

'lab

i asked them which ones for game

wanting

you should build one building computers is where it's at

also great content for stream if you can set up a camera on your old computer and build one

and like it's like you know and laugh about you fucking up and

looking at the chat being like no no no no that's too much thermal paste and half of them being like that's not enough thermal paste

i love that yeah no the thermal paste debate has been i don't think it'll ever end

yeah

and just or you can just use a pad and just trigger fucking everyone

oh yeah that's that's sacrilege are you a le long line of thermal pasced guy or a dot of thermal paced guy or an x which i'm

i'm a piece sized dollop of thermal paste guy because you know so long as you appropriately affix your

you'r your fan or whatever you know

you'll be i'm a dot guy too i'm a i'm a little pece sized dot and then i the the

pressure kind of spreads the pace out that's my that's my way

me i same bred if i'm the c p

literally spread it

now

that shits for the birds you on need do that

you don't have to spread it manually it'll spread out when you put the cooler on there and ites it

it's like t a toothpaste you know it just kind of asking me finally

there's been a nat in my room for like a day

and i finally got his ass

good shit i like

the pleasure of your apartment building being right next was swamp

the best way to keep bugs out of your house and people don't realize this but making sure the that the sink is empty and you've got no dirty dishes in the sink and taking out the trash periodically

and i do all of that but i live in apartment building so i'm sure i have a nasty neighbor somewhere

yeah it'soure all discovering people how to grow up

now let's get the show started

welcome everybody to the hippy ippy round table

ah this will be i think the forty second episode

and i want to welcome everybody from a diverse set of political perspectives and places all across

h

believe just the united states and canada

kevin being the

cannot

the dirty canadian we brought on the platform today

and we're going to talk about a host of topics everybody here most of everybody here

knows the rules already but i will repeat them

nothing against terms of service we would all like to keep our jobs

if i'm talking at any point everybody else stops talking i'm not going to give my opinion i'm just trying to moderate i'm going to be pretty strict with moderation we're going to have intros and outtros for every topic that'll be about a minute long

during those time periods you do not talk over other people that so everybody has

to make a clear statement uninterrupted

weill have an open period

in the middle

also if there's any point during this conversation where you feel like you cannot

get in for it let's say you're just not great with panels

raise your hand i'll write your name down and eventually i try to give the conversation over to you

but do know that it will take some time as i do want a natural flow of conversation to happen

as basically all the rules and regulations

so let's get into introductions we're going to start as always in the top left hand corner

with demon machine who's currently the

been

very very masculine very man

and i

mechanican

how's it going demon

fine fine

i am

change

tires but i

happy to be here

and

t's get

discussion

wonderful

i will move on to fabian liberty

hey thanks for having me i'm the little guy here

again you know let's have fun

well uh we'll see what happens between everyone tonight um

i'm an anarcho capitalist duo streamer i usually do the debates my stream partner usually sticks to the channel itself and

do a bunch of fun stuff

i don't know we like to do a lot of boycott blizzard streams some game and stuff some news some podcast stuff

happy to hear it

now i'm going to throw it over to infrared

what's good im infrared marxist leninism in the age of multipolarity and the post coded world

not much else to say

one

now i'm going to throw it over to

jangles

o everybody my name is justin i'm some nerd with the youtue

and i'll call jangles science lab

videos and debate

wonderful

j lowis

yeah um i'm joe leowis you can follow me if you so interest which our t v slash joe lewis the o bing zero

and i'm happy to be here i

came in the last minute but we'll see how it goes thanks for having

happy have you

thwing it over to kevin castleing

yeah thanks to uh thanks to you and danibl for inviting me here tonight it's uh great to be here i'm kevi castley i run the channel superpower broadcasting

i stream every day over to twitch at superpower broadcasting you can also find me on twitter at kevin castley

and our youtube channel right now

a

currently pending s frivolous copyright claims is down but that should be back up and

at some point in the near future in the meantime you can find me over on twitch thank you

well

you're haf

has been had a war done upon them

andw we're throwing it pretty much by other by other hawks to former partners it's pretty ridiculous so

yeah it would have thought that a bunch of warhwks would use aggressive tact

going to throw it over to zanerhll

yeah my name's ander hall i do left wing political content on twitch and on youtube and i also play a shit ton of rust and that's pretty much all you need to know

wonderful and now we're going to throw it over to counterpoint

yeah hi my name is connor

i

run a youtube channel names counterpoints identify cent

on a right

i just made a video for an hour yelling at my audience

but i think the topics tonight are spicy enough that weill probably get some yelling in tonight anyway

looking forward to it

should be fun

do it

wonderful i have one personal question

has

what's that stick i see what that stick con

what is that

it's an african walking stick it was granted to me by a zulu prince

made from rare form of black elephant ivory

um

yeah

it's like the

also enchanted with magical powers to make my opponents confused

wow

and we're going to see some interesting tactics thatday

so we're going to go into the first topic and we're going to start

a very heated

so

recently there's been a discussion online about how we should interact somebody who's re entered at the online political space

lauren southern

and so i'll just get straight to the case

should we

platform

lauren southern and a few people have asked me that why isn't laurren southern continued it

included in this conversation

we that would kind of defeat the purpose of the question what in it

so we're going to start

probably with her biggest

defender

the top left and corner

connor

waslissen

there's something called

responsible flatforming

i learned it from all the left

it's basically where

you you have people on

criticize their perspectives that you think are dogshit

you concede the ground that is worthy of being productve

and that's pretty much it so basically since i've quote unquote

assisted her rehabilitation or

whatever the fuck you want to call it

you know i got writs

malding in my fucking chat because i'm not extreme enough

and she's not being extreme enough

and i think that my goal my publicly stated goal

w did these people

try to get them to stop being criminally

fucking in saning

and you can't do that

i

leave it there for now

ok

next is going to be demon machine

i honestly had to ask who lauren southern was

so that that doesn't help much in my case

but i'm not

the type that supports

the platforming people just because they don't like what they have to say

if you have something to say you can say it you're more than welcome to do that if you want to bring them on the show that's up to you of course because your show type thing but

whether they should be allowed to have a place

speak i think they should

just

the people that are usually

the most to be silent needs

you need to hear what they have to say

kind of

thing whether it's good or bad in if there's

terrible then you can look at him and be like

ah

everybody gets to hear everybody gets to laugh at them together

and we can say well that's

actually insane

and so then everybody has that defense and it's not like a new argument that just popped up and you're like whoa

what is this sex

or what is this

segment of knowledge that i have not

yet

run into

so anyway

that's it

ok

now we're going to throw it over to fabian liberty

yeah i think what's really interesting about this question is that it really kind of shows the the difference between left and right wing people

right

because for the right at least in a current instantiation obviously not you know the nineties eighties kind of right wing william f buckley people

im

you know

the idea of d platforming is such a taboo right

whereas the left there's kind of this you know perceived legitimacy to the conversation about whether or not we should be putting someone's views ford

but i think i want to take the hot take here a little bit and think that

despite lauren southern's kind of history of

being involved with you know ethno nationalists and some of the really far light or far right kind of situations

i think she's actually really good for the leugh

because i think the left on twitch has been in such a situation where there's not a lot of

strong figures on the right

that they've been able to

buttress themselves against challenge their ideas and

to you know really engage with an audience that is right wing and bring them to the left or vice versa

and and i think what it happens and said is we've devolved a little bit into twitch politics community where you have

a few right wing streamers that are

you know speaking to their core audience and a lot of left wing political streamers

that are kind of attacking each other on

on whether or not this person's a neo liberal fascist or whether or not

you know this anarchist is too left wing or whether or not

some one's a marxist and that makes them a tanky and

and so i think loren southern you i mean because like what are we all going to fuck and attack rob nor like is that really the

the final boss of conservatism for twitch politics

and so i think bringing in someone like laurence southern that is

uncomfortable to the audience

and and uncomfortable to the community

i think is only going to strengthen some of the left wing

argumentation

and things assuming that you do what you said like responsible platforming and you don't have someone debate them that like

is totally out of their element

and instead just

southern looked good

so even if you disagree with your views i think it's important to understand that i actually think

this is going to be ultimately good for the left wing

individuals on the platform

and grow the platform as a whole

thank you very much

now i'm going to throw it over to infrared

yeah i mean i think the only issue with

the platforming of in general not her i don't have an issue with her

would be like people who are just

they're just too wild they can't follow rules they're like

you know they're doing alec outright

hate speech like calling to attack people and

just being like really you know

just ya not being able to

you know they have to say the n word all that kind of shit

if you can behave yourself and be a normal human being

i personally don't care what your views are you know i don't want to de platform anyone because of their views

it no matter how heinhous it is if you can just be civil about it in a sense like not

the edgy

um

i yeah i don't

i don't really see what the issue is it' like

ok she has ideas that are

people disagree with so like

you know confront those ideas

and

actually try to persuade the audience that you have the correct view you know

m

i guess it's cool that she is here because um

you know twit jus is kind of an echo chamber

uh to be honest like it's a kind of a left wing echo chamber for the most part

uh so it spices things up you know i think it's cool it's good content and you know it's my position

them

i'm going to thort over to jangle

agree with scot scott

quite a bit

yeah i don't know why people are like

youing lauren southerns this big final boss

eh

of twitch not even a fial bosss like she's so powerful

she's so far above us are that if we even engage with her it can only make her stronger and we're just so weak

feeble

so he couldn't possibly do anything to

down her amazing ida

if you talk like that i think you're doing her work for

i think you are her p r

when you when it's just its like no she's too dangerus

she too smart

she's too good

can't platform or else she's she's going to take away all of audience and we can't take away any of her

i think you're doing her p r

for her like

she's not she's not dumb

that's more

about everything

the people i've seen go up against her just

i don't like especially on the q and as and stufch

ba

people who did bed has under readers like hay weeather bo of cour i saw in

on video like

three years ago

and they thought that was enough to like just to go attack a character no don't do that know a lot about a sub

it's actually

that is

and if she really is the evil white

pemacist that honestly i think she's your views and

i honestly think like deep down she hasn't changed all that much

but who cares if she's not putting that out there eventually her white nationalist audience is going to get like

frustrated

they hep

why she saying it why s why she agreeing with all these people who are saying that the brown people aren't bad

why are they willing to get away with

um

yeah i think they event ofly the white nationalist side is going to get super

trad and slarche like die off so that extremist side

going to look elsewhere which you've essentially de platformed her

them

and maybe she does like

even if even if she's completely disingenuous that she's forced to like tailor her rhetoric to a far less extreme position

but is't that good

to have like someone who's like this

big

a far right figure l

even if it's through force or even if it's dishonest' a good to light

get her rhetoric a little bit more moderate

and like i said if you know more than her

and you can andy talk

to other people in the past year or so and you know how to speak to other humans

go for it

if you think

it's not that it's actually not that hard

to like do well in debate against

i don't know why people

view her with this like

put u up on that pedtal

o

no i'm going to throw it over to joe leowis

yeah h once again thanks for having me don um

she's my wenemye

so i'll never put her on my stream

however there have been people who have

and predominanately as but what's elouded from

has liberty jangles

those individuals who challenge her on those ideas on the left

are incredibly insufficient and incredibly unprepared

and something that i hope those of you who

are within this pan space and once a platform ar in southern

that you keep that in mind where

you can't

the these individuals are crypto

so they're not going to overtly

say the thing that you think that is like

the aha moment

they're going to allude to certain things and i think you ought to challenge those things

i think one of the problems is that you

these people are handled with

kid gloves and i just don't think that's sufficient

right because

if you don't handle that person to the extent that you would never left this

then why are you wasting your time bringing the person into your space if you're not going to really challenge them on their ideas

and that's pretty much what i've seen so far as that the people who

have been which have predomintly been

on the left like it's been insufficient we've seen what rose wrist did

to to expose or in southern

we see the reaction

you can go to the vads you can go to the reactions of the content

so we have an individual who showed a precedent of like how you can challenge an individual

with an idea

and then just watch them cope when you know they can't walk they're not walking back anything o their position or just straight up lying in tweets

so i hopefully people pay attention the rose rists content

because i think for a seventeen year old kid

to show a bunch of grown adults

that his playbook is better

than theirs is is pretty fucking embarrassing

its on the left

kevin castley

yeah thinks tie

so my view on this in general is that i don't

uh have an issue with platforming people per se i think the issue

the issue is already been kind of discussed a little bit there by joe lewis that

if you're if you're somebody who hasn't really done your research or if you're not going to ask sufficiently

a hard hitting questions or be able to detect dog whistles that's where it can get a little bit problematic

i know in my early days

uh when i was doing content i did have people do dog whistles and that just kind of went over my head a little bit i try to be more

uh on the ball about that now you know people bring up things like cultural marxism these types of dog whistles

a lot more subtle ones too

and so i think being aware having a good dog whistle radar is is a good piece of equipment for going in and debating people like that i also think that

in general

h platforming people

i think especially if it's for debate is is usually it can be a good thing

i i would love to debate laurence southern i i mean she's done some pretty despicable stuff in the past i mean you can talk about

uh trying to stop search and rescue of refugees fleeing for their lives from

bshar the butchers regime for example in syria

that she was trying to stop that that

you know that was pretty gross i i'd love to talk with her

but i think that at the end of the day though

if you just simply don't engage with anybody

on that side what it does is it means that their audience is essentially only going to be watching

i complained in total echo chamber

but they get more and more radicalized

and they're not exposed to any views that are socially liberal that are socially progressive that

uh they don't actually have a chance of having their minds changed because they've been sucked into

a vortex which is comprised of people that

uh

they can't get an audience anywhere else and so those people become more and more radicalized and that at the end of the day

it does lead in agregate

to a a more divisive and a less

a close knit sort of social culture which can of course exacerbate other divisions

so i think having things like you know panel shows and debates are a good thing

to try to you know

reduce some of the tensions in terms of the culture war but i do think that

you have to do it in a way

where

you're not letting dog whistles fly without calling them out and you are holding people to account

on statements and actions that they've done so thank you

then now over to zanderhom

yeah i'm surprised i feel like i might end up agreeing more with the conservatives on the panel than a lot of left leaning people

i think and this is going to piss off a lot of left wing people but i think that uh blair white has pretty successfully rehabilitated her image in the eyes of a lot of like the general public that are interested in politics

you can't go on and platform laurence southern and try to argue

like you're arguing with twenty sixteen luren southern i've seen a lot of people try to do that

um it's something i tried to avoid and i debated her though i think i was way too nice um

and if you go too hard on it you could have something like what happened with lance where you're

debating someone you're debating twenty sixteen laurence southern

if you're going to platform her you need to go into it with sort of

a few things in mind at least in my opinion

i don't think there's anything wrong in and of itself with having lauren southern on

obviously should do your due diligence to your research try to do the best you can

but you know debating is something that you get better at as you practice and you do have experience with it

um if you're like a left wing debate brow i would probably advise that you at some point try to debate luren southern i mean

she's very good at debating so it's going to be something that you're going to be able to sort of

learned from significantly

um

i don't think that most lefty creators platforming lawence southern are going to

harm the discourse in any way

um i i i i

think that she's already so large and has been around for so long and as everybody knows of her

that it's pretty hard for any lefty figure to platform her

more likely it's that it's her platforming you

and that's more or less all i have to say about it

ok

so we're going to now open it up to general discussion you can respond to anybody else or make your comments

well yeah i'll just be sply sad

well yeah just on the point about you know the al right in general and people like lauren southern i i think one of the one of the big areas and i kind of mentioned this a bit in my

intro here one of the one of the big areas that they do

have

kind of an advantage is that

they have a lot of dog whistles and

and so on that you've you've got to be more or less aware of what's going on

but

i do think that the idea that well

we we can't engage with people that are you know of that sort of branch at all

it it

basically the other thing that it does the other the

outcome that it does

is it gives people on that side the impression that people that are socially liberal

are just

scared to debate them it gives it basically legitimizes them as the only people that are

that are able to you know say these things and that everybody else is too scared to engage with it

uh i don't think that anybody's necessarily scared to engage with her i think that there's just the debate over

whether or not you're doing a net harm or ne to society by ignoring it

or engaging with it i would still say that you're doing a neck good by engaging

with these types of ideas

and and basically

calling out

m

them for what they are

so

yeah i think it's a really

it's really kind of naive to say that

we platform re in southern as if

her being platformed to

us

she has a twitch channel

have you ever whata so for those in chat

have you ever watched

which

what is ninety nine percent of twit

it's someone reacting to a video someone else

so it's not like

if we don't go debate her she's not going to react

to and

the bunk and

shit on left wing content

that's what streaming

we haven't denied her a platform we have denied her reach to our audience we haven't denied her

the ability to abuse other creators if we if we

don't go and debate her

she's going to do that anyway because

that's actually how twitch works

all we've done if we refuse to debate her is make sure that she gets to do it without us in the room

without us being able there to defend our own ideas without us

there to push back on hers

it doesn't take much to like

take these people down

and i'm not like take them down i'm like

just if if you think someone is like dog willson such

keep asking

engulish

narrow in the l what they actually think if they pivot away call it out

but i think it just if you just know more about the topic than they do and you've talked to other people before if you've got some debates on your bell

it's not actually that hard

to do well against

and so i don't like it

people just think she's so

scary when she

yeah i

oh go ahead go ahead but oh well yeah so if you don't mind me jumping in just because yeah

you know i've been a partner or whatever

i i think the the key thing is like that this is all boiled down to

back in

rhetorical stuff that is obvious when you

do a lot of debates

maybe not so obvious

where

you don't do a lot

um so for instan

' like jangles and has

uh both came in on like something called the gauntlet which is like you know ten minute back to back like kind of debates or whatever

jangles did really well presented a bunch of information that i virtually guarantee

lauren's audience hasn't heard or seen before

haws because he's an esoteric political figure i guarantee they' never heard any of his fucking argument

were and that was kind of like the funny thing was like just watching the shock

both from the audience and from lauren who had never dealt with a marxist leninist

and so and so that's what that's what i'm kind of saying is like

um

i would say at this point based off of

conversations and all that kind of stuff

laur stated politics are probably christian conservatism that fall in line

with maga they're probably the same level of nefariousness as you would associate with anybody who

donald trump

i

don know she supports donald trump

but at the same time like that's the audience that you're going for so you're talking about twenty percent to thirty percent of the american

public

you can deem them nefarious you can deem them evil

but at the same time like

those are the people that you need to go after those are the people that you need to convince that you have stronger arguments those are the things that

basically for the past

decade because i ran in right wing circles

those are the people who you know basically like when you joke about mayo side on twitter

the screenshot that

they post that the facebook without metrics and they say

the left wants to genocide white

and that's the you know that's kind of the audience that hasn't been exposed to stronger centrist or left wing argu argue

that yeah it just yes i wanted to sorry do you mind if i hop in re

hea goa

yes so i think one of the things and i kind of want to add a little context to what super power broadcasting was talking about right because we have science on this right

and i think that's one of the big issues that we need to we need to understand is you know like what does the science say about echo chambers

and about how right wingers kind of differ from left wingers as as we

move people like sticx hexenhammer right and and lauren southern and more right wing you know you tube or libertarian you tube individuals into the platform and so i think one of the great things we can look at is like moral foundations theory right jonathan heights research on moral psychology right

you have you know the left is very concerned with harm and fairness right

whereas conservatives kind of work on a five point scale much more which is harm fairness

in group preference authority and purity or secretity

right

and then when you couple that with with personality trait right like the big five right

you have conservatives have a lot more

conscientiousness so

industriousness orderliness

and leftist tend to have higher traits and personality trait openness right

openness to ideas and openness to creativity and intelligence right

and so when you take those factors and you bring them in context of this situation

what you understand is

is that right wing individuals are form far more likely to coalesce

by their favorite streamer

and hang out with their favorite streamer

and not engage with other content

right where his left wing streamers

are far more or sorry viewers are far more likely to

maybe go see a lauren southern and then back away right or go see a c t v and then back away

or come to my channel right and back away right

they're more open to these ideas and so

when talking about the danger of echo chambers on a platform

you have to understand that the bigger danger the bigger threat

is that a right wing audience becomes an echo chamber then let's say a left wing audience

you know

obviously ignoring censorship and you know and the fact that t o s is somewhat based off of

left wing cultural values and things like that in twitter and facebook but but even still right

i think it's important to understand that if you don't engage with lor and sothern

her audience will coalesce around her

not branch out

and watch her content as she reacts to other people

and become more entrenched in their political views

whereas the left

is likely to end up going to her channel and seeing her

unchallenged

by you the streamer that could be

kind of debunking what you believe to be a mythos that shes constructed around some type of idea

based off of her ideology

and so i think it's far more important here that the left engages with laurence southern

than it actually is that the right engages with left wing streamers

and so i think that's something to consider if you're left wing streamers kind of

understanding that basic psychology of personality psychology and moral psychology

yeah that like that's the thing is that ultimately she's going to be

like kevin stop

hauses turn n

yes so basically i'm saying is um

i don't i really do not understand what all the fuss is about because

twich is already so super strict and so it has standards that are so divorc

i'm the majority of americans in general it's like

i don't get people who just spend their time like wanting to deplatform others

like going beyove and beyond the rules twich has already created like twich is allowing her to be here so like why do you have to be like

and i have a jen iplain just because yeah give me a second me sec

and like to me it's like come

i really think people who are always trying to hate on other people's content

even those twitches already so super strict

i feel like these people just don't have their own content they don't have anything to offer so they just got to like be

all monitors you know it's like its just super lame to me i don't know

it like what i mean like dude not everyone's going to agree with you i don't see why people are so sensitive you know

yeah so i would like to explain some of the sensitivity of a and kevin then i think it was sam

yeah i'll try to be brief

so the two main criticisms of lauren southern specifically as she blocked a refugee boat called the aquarius that was trying to leave an italian port

the aquarius is a controversial boat basically lawnce southern and right wing figures in the italian government accuse them of coordinating with human traffickers off the coast of lebanon in order to move immigrants and refuge

europe

but the aquarius actually has a pretty good reputation as an n g o and was working with doctors without borders

in order to assist people who are stranded in the mediterranean so we really don't know what to say there except for the fact that

lauren southern brock blocked a refugee transport ship that was in attempting to

h you know save refugees that was one of the main criticisms against her

um since then the aquarius has had its charter revoked basically but but

you know that that's just goiningd of

the second thing that she is the reason why people are sensitive about

is because the concept of the great replacement theory

uh this is a theory that was popularized by a french philosopher named like henri kmu or something like that

it basically says that we

mass immigration into the western world is a unconscious but still governmentally

intentional cultural shift

where white people will no longer be the majority within western nations within a generation because our leaders view them as completely replaceable

in the sense that like we can just accept endless amounts of immigration into the western world and it doesn't really matter who lives who lives in the western world whether they're white or not

in this great migration was one of the cited reasons why

a laurn southern specifically

was not

the person that was like cited in this manifesto

the shooter who shot up the mosque in new zealand and i think killed like fifty to fifty five people

in general was somebody who bought into a lot of dissident right figures

and also bought in specifically to the great replacement

theory believing that this was an intentional act

to replace white people in the european and western world with immigrants

and those are the two largest controversies and that's why people are upset yeah i just think it'd be so much easier though because i'm a middle eastern person right so i don't know what people are saying

you know like you i much prefer to just you know if these ideas are becoming so widespread

as a result of not being censored

then it would be super easy to for me to just you know debate them i could just debate them and

i feel you know if you could deal with this stuff in the light of day

then i just think it would be less like likely to give birth to these psychopaths who are like you know in the dark web or whatever

and you know personally to me i just think people are super sensitive you' got to realize people have a wide ranging views of things about the world

and you need to be able to just either accept that or you can debate them and just

put forward your ideas but

forward there's

you know i think one of the issues here honestly from my perspective is that

this is kind of the implicit thing

is that the majority of leftists and liberals

literally do not know how to beat

right wing people arguments to can't they can't prevail when it comes to

the actual merit of their ideas

so they get to this emergency mode of having to censor people because they just

they literally don't even know how to respond right

because for me for example i' a marxist leninist it's very easy for me to talk to even extreme right wing people

and debate them and just you know

it's easy for me to because i under i can understand their kind of ideological

i guess um

fantasy or whatever it's like

i can

i becuse i understand the contradictions within the prevailing etiology that gives rise to that with why the mainstream

is giving rise to these extremist idiologies because there's something wrong with the mainstream and i understand that

so for me it's super easy to deal with these ideas uh i don't want to deal with them but at least

um

put forward an alternative to them

whereas it seems that people who represent the mainstream ediology

cannot cover up the contradictions within the mainstream liberal idiology so they end up just getting rolled by these like extreme right wing people and

i think it's just the high point of hypocrisy that

they have to resort to censorship to just cover up their own flaws

well there's something also weve got to recognize and then after after you joe it's going to be kevin's

sure absolutely

there's also a recognition that i mentioned in my opening in alluded there way alluded to is that

the mainstream in this case the twitch left because that's where she's navigating in

is an incredibly insufficient even

talking amongt themselves about the very policies that they advocate for

like we have people going on like panels for prime kis

about the suburbs and don't know the differences between like

our one housing and our two housing

and then

you get people who are more invested in this and have like a invested

interest in politics and in vested interest in

policy and

advocating for the communities

and then you have to sort of like in my case i have to sit there and watch watch like these people

navigate with these individuals and they just they they crumple

or even like in the face of somebody who clearly

especially for the marginalized individuals like the black

individuals and persons of color who jump into this arena

that

it's very clear in their opening statements or like the first ten minutes that they don't

care about your existence

so why are you handling this person

with a level of sensitivity

when within the extrapolation of their ideology you don't fucking exist

and and then i just god to sit there and watch it and like i'm listen man like i don't

do competitive one on one conversations like this i navigate with them panels and do my own thing but for those who

who go into those arenas for the one on one conversations then it's up to them to make sure that they're the best representative

of whatever they're advocating for and not letting up

on like the small concessions that they give these more foreign individuals

yeah think's still on sow

i mean it's already been brought up a little bit but i think an important point to mention is that

but she's going to react to people's content whether or not you engage with her so basically what it comes down to is either

do you want her audience

and you know and obviously we're talking about lauren southern here but this uh argument and this discussion could apply to any sort of uh

all right or if you want to say like christian conservative type folks

that that

their audience is either going to be getting

on

your if you're big enough or to react to your views

analyzed through her bias exclusively or you participate in debating her

and you get to defend yourself and so i know joe lewis you were talking about how

you're not really interested in doing these sort of one on one sort of debates and everything that's like i could get that obviously they get

a pretty crazy and whatnot but

i guess if she were to react to you and say one of your streams or something

th would you rather

not be there to defend yourself or would you rather just not engage with her and have her audience have this view ofvi you that's completely tinged through her lens of biace

i guess well i mean to answer that pretty directly this is why i think it's very important like for me right like i do so continent wwitch and every once in a while i have a back and forth with a couple of like

essentially it's like i argue with rob nre and a couple of other more far right readies but

my whole thing is that one of the things that people have access when they watch my content

and subscribe to my content or vauds

so if you subscribe

you can watch my vauds

i'm very clear like if you have a position

the you want to have a conversation with we can have a conversation on it

but for the most part like

even the right hasn't really like brought that up i mean ok like if lawn southern wants to

watch my content and

pay the subscription to watch my vode and

commentate on my content i still won't bring her on my platform

like i have too many other people i have too many other things

outside of this that matter

right like i'm running for the board of education my of my township

i have aspirations form my city council i have aspirations as a music educator and i don't want to put like

my students who know that like i exist on the internet my community that i have spent time building

like be subject to sitting through something that's going to make them that uncomfortable

and i some i don't think the question is do you personally lexander gones

would you say jenicos you felt it was important so i want to make sure was

and i don't think the conversation is should you personally host laorn southern it's just like yeah i guess th can you reacs can you react that then i kevin was going yeah i n know i was just asking i was just asking a hypothetical

where lauren was reacting to would say when your streams or something or was talking about your views

at my point was just either her audience sees that

entirely through her lens of bias or

doing gage with her and then you get to defend

yourself and maybe change minds or get the ball rolling

see what i see what you're saying i mean sure yeah i mean like lefties ironically think i'm a genocide denier

and a crypto black separatist and in the right think

i'm literally hitler so

like these people have been like

to

set the narrative f

what i do on this platform already do this and i it's the same present that i do i just kind of ignore them

but for the most part which is very interesting

which is

m knocking at is these people already don't consume my content so i wlaarren southern were to do that

she' be the first

i

so i have happens with this hypothetical hasn't happened yet but i don't think it's going to happen

okay's andanevil

yeah i want to go back to what infrad brought up earlier having to do with the platforming people i think that it's kind of a double edged sword

i don't think that ded platforming is so much a a

di a revealing from the left that we can't handle the rights ideas and that we have to ban them and de platform them to keep their ideas from getting out

i think that's done more so to avoid accountability for these platforms when it comes to

individuals that are using them spreading misinformation though i will admit

it is a double edged sword in the way that when you ban a large right wing figure or even a left wing figure

this contributes to a narrative that this group is being attacked by a

larger more powerful one that wants to keep their ideas triy sound

um yes strike sound effect to a degree right like why are you trying to hide these ideas if they're so bad why not just let them be out there and debate them

and i do think there ish certainly a lot of merit to um

like debating these ideas i mean it's why i do what i do right

when it comes to platforming lauren southern specifically

i don't see any point i

like i mean obviously it's all personal preference but at least for me

i don't see any point in trying to avoid any interaction with thorn southern

i'm probably going to talk to her again quite a few times in the near future who knows

um i think it's just one of those things where

if you disagree on things debate other figures about them it's content it's going to help people improve what they believe and

figure out better arguments for what they believe or figure out arguments against what they believe to help defend what they believe maybe change their minds and

and i

like in fred brought up before

lawrence southern is not currently breaking t o s on twitch as far as i'm aware

so i don't see her getting banned y time soon so she's around we're just going to have to kind of deal with that

as far as i'm concerned she's been pretty nice to me i don't really have all that much against her any more

a i know about her past and i know that her past has been

spotty to say the least i watched her when i was younger

but i mean you can't without very hard evidence hold

past actions on a person who doesn't believe those things anymore at least claims they don't

um and come off not looking like a crazy person you know what i mean like if you try to go on there and be like

lauren how do you feel about your responsibility for the christ church shooting

you're going to look like a fucking crazy person

you can't do that that's never going to work you're going to look insane to anybody who's not already bought in entirely

on what you already believe

respect there's a there's a big problem everybody wait

that was

three people talking at once

chair if you were just talking tould you raise your hand quick so i'll just pick who's ever talked the least

last time i heard

i haven't heard

ooh youve all talked to di

i'm going to with it up

ha

fabian connor than joe

yeah i think the issue with looking at it from the perspective of misinformation i have a philosophical issue with that because i

it's assuming that there's a consensus about us the stream of information that's coming and there's no such consensus exists

not legally not institutionally in terms of the american state is concerned

preciedent that america has established for itself is one of the first amendment free speech

so there is no exclusive privileged stream of information

that i mean i don't agree i don't think

i don't think there's anyone on this platform that i can say that like i share a

consensus with you guys about what

is the privilege stream of what information is

so i don't think there's a consensus about truth i think truth is something that is being suspended in reality

and which is a matter of dispute which has to be dealt with in that matter

i think america's the wild west is so to speak

if you think something is misinformation

you should prove the significance of that information in some kind of way

to be beyond having to silence your your opponent because really it is a slippery slope

we're going to get to a going back against that where

we're going to because you have to understand that

the realities of a a statehood and

political realities are not just objective realities they're also subjective ones

so

we are coming to a point where tautologically

all political opponents will be eliminated

are from the establishment the mainstream

in the name of misinformation

not necessarily because they have gotten a reality wrong objectively but because they take a subjective stance

different from the status quo

thereby endangering a different relationship to objective reality so

we cannot have this kind of philosophical view that there is just a blank

objective reality out there and it's just a matter of being correct

because we subjectively participate in that reality

so that's why i take issue with the misinformation

the

one second i want you know agreed with the w wait

bengles disagree with i want to say something

so i want to throat over the jangles and i'm writing down everybody's name on the list i got to za

ok i'm sorry that this is going to like get

yeah

pretty far off topic but i'll try to bring it backgain

so just because like

yeah like yeahan objective reality doesn't resist or right none of us are of you from nowhere we all have our subjective opinions and all that stuff

you can admit that

and also recognize that you can also lie you can also spread and misinformation

well there's not a single arbiter of truth out there it's not like

the truest ideas like sync to the service i am a huge advocate for debate i will debate anyone i think the vast majority of ideas should be debated

but i'm also not going to sit here and pretend that the best ideas the most truthful ideas

win every single time

when like i don't know how you could possibly think that with the past a couple of years like

you peill believe what they're motivated to believe half the people like

there's a there's a disturbingly high percentage of americans

who don't believe the vaccinho don't believe the vaccine works or things the vaccine is going to like

actually give them covert or some crazy shit or think that like horse pace is the answer to all of our problems or something like that

so i'm not so we shouldn't

i kind of agree with you

that we shouldn't

is see truth as this is this one singular objective truth this omn the potent truth

no truth is a consensus it depends on what field it depends on what information that's wells a little like

good

weeded out by like you jt say information like it's

big blob

is that there's not vastly different types of information out there

on

i will push back you can very easily spread misinformation and it can be very very harmful when done in the wrong way debate can be a solution to that but we shouldn't pretend that the truest ideas are the ones that always

they do ok so you have a narrow view of what truth is you think truth is only the factual objective content not a deeper subjective truth in relation to institutions for example that's just my subjective

who do you who do you dort so well let me let me let me let me step in what you said was him youing and then he jangles just wait jangles just asked

has a question i would like to give her it was it was mostly a facetious question like that justk the truth that i can a prorove it's wrong

ok of a pian you on the list give the fabian

san connor than joe i just want to go on the order because i know them wants to ask cause a question

it

rap rap i'll engage with the current discussion just a second but i just wanted to point out the hilarity kind of the fact that like a marxist leninist than i

and handcap

are almost in total agreement from earlier before

and we were as i was actually having this conversation proudly radical

left wing anarchists and we were all in agreement too that

i think one a of the issues

and this is going back a little bit but i promise i'll bring into the current conversation is that

the left knows how to debate but doesn't know how to argue

and the right

understands how to argue but they don't know how to debate

and i think platforming

individuals such as the

right so debate like you academic like i'm going to break apart the science i'm going to show this study i'm going to show why this study

you know what i mean like i'm going to go into the methodology of this research study i'm going to look at this met analysis right these are all great debate

lowghost things right

but in rhetoric

logos is very unimportant when compared to pathos and ethos establishing credibility and talking about you know narrative identity and talking about the story and talking about emotions

right the left is great ions debate right the former is ivi the second is debate a debating right like colloquially speaking obviously you know what i mean like technically speaking we can get into the weeds on those definitions but i just want to say that i kind of agree with has here that i think that this will be good for people to learn how to argue because someone like lauren southern isn't amazing at arguing

about using emotions and using like

and that's a big part of this whole dog whistling thing we're bact we're back and forth about right is these dog whistles are more than just like

hey i'm mentioning a topic

and there are a lot of times there about

i'm drumming up fears and concerns

and emotional things and

and infiltrating that into the conversation in my audience understands that right

it's a communication rhetoric tactic

more than it is just like

you know the danger of the thing

but but getting into this idea about you know about contingency logic versus

m traditional logic right and

you know i'm sorry but haz is completely correct here again

right like like subjectivity is is is a portion of truth

in almost every aspect i mean even the great light enlightenment thinkers that kind of

formulated liberal democracy as we have it today you know

let's see right mills right like on liberty like read on liberty and understand why

dangerous

ideas

often are important and so it's important that we debate the ideas that are that are held by a minority opinion and prove them wrong but you also have to understand that like

william lloyd garrison

was a radical and an extremist

with an massively unpopular opinion

that many people tried to censor

and tried to shut down his publications

you know what his radical belief was

black people shouldn't be slaves

right i mean so there are also ideas that are very not well accepted right you might

you might think that veganism for example is a is an absurd idea that most people are against but in one hundred years we might look at ourselves as being monsters

for for supporting you know factory farming

and things of that nature so there's a lot of ideas that are rare

but need to be challenged so that those good ones

do spring forth

and do bring progress it's an ok point to make and i do understand i do like to you're differentiating

somewhat fuzzily between like arguing debating i agree with that

but also like be careful when you like use that example of like the galileo example like this one guy everyone thought he was wrong they tried to silencehibody ended up being right

for every

galilee

i know that was an example used but the same spirit

for every gal lal there's one hundred thousand

cooks

out that absolutely which is why we should challenge the ideas that are kooks right

and we shouldn't have a system of state authority

or institutional authority on the twich politics fhere or

you know authority in the in terms of like you know social media companies

that try and push out all radical ideas instead we should bring them to the front and we should laugh at all these stupid ones and the ones that make a little bit of sense should challenge the way we view and see the world

because truth is subjective and we never know how these things might change

and we want to move it over to

oh um

can i move i'm sorry but i got to move the comyes

forward to peoplever talk yet

an san connor than joe so i haven't forgot your

yeah so truth is of course objective we all know this like opinions and whatnot so on whatever right

when i talk about deep platforming people because of spreading misinformation

i'll give a good example i think this is an example it's pretty hard to argue against an example of misinformation being spread knowingly and maliciously

in order to cause harm

alex jones claiming that the sandy hook shooting was a false flag and that the

the parents of the dead kids were crisis actors

this was

a lie

and alex jones's audience proceeded to then send death threats and harassment to the families of these murdered children

and alex jones is banned for that

i think that is fine that is an instance of deep platforming that you will never ever see me

arguing against

though

ill admit

i while i may celebrate it

i don't know if on principle it's a good thing to

ban people and deplatform them simply for opinions that are harmful

my issue is when the

information or ideas

uh that are a th that are

are being pushed forward as authoritative claims like this is how things are

that have been well and truly debunked by authoritative sources like real authoritative sources

that we've generally come to recognize as being valid

um

are being spread by individuals that are and are causing harm

and that's where i'm on board with the platforming

yeah but where's info worl dot com now right

i mean info wars dot com is one i organizations in america like all that's happened is now he's been pushed into a right wing echo chamber where these people can go on info wars dot com

and they can put it as the website as an app on their i phone or on their android and they watches content and it's never fucking challenged and then they go out and think radical crazy shit

because these ideas aren't in a statece like twitch politics where people can do reaction videos and laugh at them and where they're challenged and they're forced to engage with other people a platforming of him has made im more dangerous

not exactly that's actually nott nobody is w were stumbling in have structure

fair enough wayll sorry stop

can you guys hear me

y yes

fabian and zan and jangles you guys have a history of hearing problems

n yes no then you should

well but the machine we're target if you had don't have history of hearing problems then you should be able to hear me

if not turn my volume up i would actually appreciate it if you will turn my volume up a little bit

so you can hear me when i talking so i can moderate

so we're going to have zand respond

than jengles

one

then we got to go to connor and joe

ok cool

yees so

you can argue that de platforming these people just means their audience is sent to an even tighter echo chamber where they're not going to hear arguments against their ideas and i'll completely concede that that's going to be the case in basically every instance of banning

a figure who's spreading misinformation or has a certain idea right or left wing

my problem is though and the reason why i disagree with the statement you're making

is because now that these figures have been banned and sent to much more what's the word for it and

less mainstream places you're not going to have situations like the rampant

political movement that happened in two thousand and fourteen to twenty sixteen

where you could watch like some gaming video and the you tube algorithm's going to take you some

s j w cringe compilation then you stumble across alex jones eventually we know this has happened we know that a lot of people have been in this situation

taking these people off of large mainstream platforms limits their reach

while it does make it their already existing audience it's harder for them to interact with people who disagree with them

it does limit their reach a lot less people are

our

going to fall into their a

into their content or what they have to say from there

i mean but he's grown

he's grown since being banned so

he's grown since being banned in the sense that mainstream political figures have shouted him out but as far as like the youtube algorithm and people discovering him like organically through the algorithms on twitter and i don't even know if that's true by the way if he's grown

but i am aware of the fact that people likeh donald trump and plenty of right wing political activists and figures and politicians here

in america have shouted him out and have given him attention

but without that i don't think you would be growing very much

without the help of twitter instagram or and scrim know you tube these large mainstream platforms that have an algorithm built to keep feeding you what you're already watching

you tube doesn't show you things that contradict

what you're already enjoying

you tube's just going to keep feeding you more of what they know you want to watch because it's what keeps that keeps you watching it's what keeps you seeing ads what keeps

them making money it's what keeps making you tube

or twitter whatever making more money

um

they're not going to be exposing you to new ideas either way

at this point all it does is keep people like alex jones from gaining a larger audience

but it but a can it wa

i'm going to have i just got to get through these people i've got to go over to jangles before we go to connor joe have been waiting for almost like twenty minutes now

jangles i just had id that one comment about like people do react to alex jones so like when you search in foro wars or alex jones and you to

you're going get a lot of like de bunking first

so and i think he agreed

yeah people so react to him that's all

th

connor

yeah

so all right so

so that this is kind of the question though because because it's really interesting to me because we're teasing this out

of what is the overten window and is it exclusively terms of service so for instance i think zander hall brought up a good point

um aus jones was banned because he basically started a harassment campaign that was based on false information

but you know i think i was lially looking at stephan mall and you apparently he had a few violations of heat speech i don't even remember what

did

get himself pan

but it was the i q discussion

ah so that that's

so then that kind of that question kind of gets to you know where is the overton window and how do we you know basically how do we decide that obviously terms of services kind of decide it for us

but then i'm kind of wondering where the overten window is

here i guess like racialism or racism is one of them maybe violence is the other one maybe harassment campaigns is the other one

that we've kind of discovered through stumbling through these figures

but then one of the things that i want to say about opening up these bridges is we're constantly complaining

about the polarity in our society the right wing has gone really far right the left wing

i know you guys hate this but i'm going to say it anyways

has got really far left

and it doesn't seem like people are capable of communicating without you know basically one person's worldview necessarily

violence

so then the question becomes how do we improve communications between

pose

and what i would tell you is from my fumbling attempt

to improve communication through these polls

one

i'll just admit it i've learned a lot from you commmi fucks and progressives on this platform

but two

there's a lot of challenges when you reach out to siloded communities and by silode i just mean like isolated communities

so i literally just shot part of the reason why i'm not yelling at you guys as much

is because i basically screamed into the camera for an hour

um describing like historical injustice and systemic racism in america

because people were trying to say

thisspighte they might feel like this is a straw man

but they were trying to say

systemic racism ended in oneousand nine hundred sixty five

and we don't have to do anything in order to fix our modern institutions

individuals just need to act better

and i think that was like an argument that i

would have expected to find in twentusy and sixteen or twenty seventeen

but i'm

shocked to find it

five years later

that

people haven't done any amount of fucking research haven't moved on from any of their perspectives

and they basically sat

in the same s j w wrecked compilations videos for five

fucking years

like how was that

possible how do you not have

the curiosity to evolve as a person or check out the counter arguments that

contradict your world's view how do you not have that inside you

instince people don't have that shit inside them

h i'm sorry but they need to be dragged kicking and screaming into the fucking world

through debate

and the way that you do that is basically by finding these fuck in avatars of the right wing that have siloed themselves off in communities

anded you fucking fight them public

so connor these are so i'm terst and we alreays have inside of i was up next after i was up nexander hall so one of the things that

a's interesting with that connor right is that

you mentioned something along the lines of

people within this

space that you were arguing with

believed that systemic racism

and these things ended in one nine teunenred sixty five

that the argument that you dealt with it's it's a little bit of a straw man but yeah they basically said that all of our social institutions are operating as they should and oh there's no problems today

well well yeah i mean like that's that that's within like my will well black issues right i hear that argument every day in my stream like there are people who come into my space and ironically believe

that black people just need to lift themselves up by their bootstraps and one of the reasons why the the these pesky blacks are not

moving forward in society is because there's no fathers in the home and there's no fathers in the home because they're irresponsible like i hear that shit every day and my mod's have to deal with it every fucking day and then i had to sit and then but then what happens is

what's very interesting is that

it there's like listen like i'm going to be dead up like a lot of these lefties on on twitch and shit they don't give a shit about black issues

they don't talk abouck it about black issues they don't spend any time talking to black people to try to understand black issues and then they start talking about things like systemic racism and systemic oppression and then when a gein int to these conversations and debates

we literal race realists and literal white nationalists

they're incredibly insufficient in their arguments

they or they end up like co signing

because they don't know how dog whistles work and then i just had to sit there and go like

come up i mean

whatever and that causes a lot of potential harm in spaces that like

for me that is predominantly black and that and other spaces that like when black creators see that

and they want to talk like oh like let me see what's going on with the twitch left and then like you see people who like unironically say things like races genetic and

black people like one of the reasons is fathers are they cosign to the idea of criminality as it relates tot genetic composition or literal just

what what um they call just genics like in

it's's really painful to see you know

ya and and so that this is kind of my thing is the

the frustration

that i have with this

is i feel like

there are people

who want to assign everything to a single variable whether they want to make it like

genetics or environment or fathers or the drug war or something like that

they want to take all of our historic issues they want to as sign it to a single variable that they don't have to deal with

because it's either too complex to deal with

or it's an unchangeable fact of reality and we can't improve anything ever

um and that feels really frustrating for me because basically like i i i don't think that's politics or at least i hope it's not politics

is that we just look at really complex problems and we just go

yeah it's complex

well if that's if that's what we're doing here we're bsing our

fucking time

i'd like not to cut you off but i totally agree where something that i wish

people tried to do as one example of the many things

that the left on twitch and again like there are streamers and consecrators are doing fantastic work and we ought to recognize them

right but at the same time like

there are certain topics that the left has exposed themselves over the past seventy two hours

that they claim to be left this but they're but they fall into the same traps that the right sets up for them like what example is within black nationalism where they there's this continual correlation between black nationalism and black separatism and then regardless of the fact that like i know they don't talk to or interact with any black people about this issue i know they don't do any of the readings of these individuals i know they don't know don't know who marcus garvey is let alone w de bois or

were elaine brown stokely carmichael

um a shada shakor and then like i sad to sit there and go like jesus christ and then when i see them study on streams because they tell in themselves and they do the research it's like oh they just like go on history channel dot com or

go on wikipedia and

then when when like

a very few fraction like i'm talking about a percentage of a percentage

that are doing the actual work and i can tell because they actually

reach out to me about the topic

then it's like okay then those individuals end up being are just

being better in the space like one of the things that

the jangles and i can relate to is that if you're going to

walk into a conversation you gotta know the best of your ability of the topic

but

again like i can't stress this enough my frustration is

a lot of these people in the current mainstream

like again there are people doing fantastic work with all in all

the left is incredibly insufficient and i want to ask xanderhaal something too

because he really wasn't ait because you interrupted me ca sure and absolutely absolutely i talk real quick and then absolutely i back to you

so yeah in here's the thing is like

this is one of the things that's really frustrating

for me like ok

pending either the fascist revolution or the marxist onle in this revolution we live in a liberal democratic society

and liberal democratic societies function off of electoralism which basically means that you need to have broad consensus in order

there is a shock

a moount of things

that have broad consensus especially in the millennial generate

so basically what i would say in particular the drug war the drug war is universally unpopular with anybody that's under the

the decriminalization or legalz legalization of weaed i think

holes around seventy or eighty percent

depending on like which ones

do

and then the decri decriminalization of hard drugs

while more contentious i'm sure you could popularize if you use like a utilitarian model

so that alone would completely change the face of law

wen

while it seems incremental to people who want to overthrow the government it's actually a

pretty big political development

and i think you would be shocked

that you would be able to achieve

large swaths of the left progressive liberals libertarian progressive and liberals

you would absolutely be able to get libertarians and that you would probably be surprised how many conservatives you would be able to get

who consider marijuana as harmful as alcohol and that you have

less cops

on the street

reaching their hands into fucking people's pockets in order to find fucking narcotics that ultimately don't harm any

or don't harm as much as alcohol or tobacco

and then right there we have like a major incremental reform in the way that the war on drugs is prosecued

so what i'm trying to say right now

is you don't have to like somebody

in order to get an electoral w

all you have to do you don't even have to agree on the description

weirdly enough

you just have to agree on the prescription and if you can build consensus along certain prescriptions

you can get them through the electoral process and i'll leave it leave it there

toet you know as an hand caap you know i'd love to have a you know a conversation

i would like to give to kevin first she's waited for a little bit and then we can give to you and the we're probably going to wrap up

yeah thanks john

a this one was more addressed to has who's not

here at the moment but he said something about how

that the mainstream is just in his words basically that the mainstream is eventually coming to

a deep platform everybody on the grounds of

uh disseminating misinformation and

i disagree with that characterization

i know and i debated a couple days ago in the topic of misinformation thisinformation came up

it is a fact that there are people out there

there are organizations out there

there are

that various groups out there that

that will spread di information and it's been verified that there are

is the internet research agency

based in saint petersburg

that pays people about

two to three times a typical russian salary

and it's a basically in order to go

on mostly american social media though some british social media too

and just don't

chaos stoke division

pump out whether it's really far left or really and it's usually really far right

conspiracy theories

to try to get

people in western societies basically to hate each other

and flash with each other

because they see this as a strategy to weaken confidence in civil society

and western institutions

as a means of asymmetric warfare essentially information warfare because

you know we're at a point where you can't really do physical combat i mean every obviously the u s as nukes brin as nukes

russia's nukes so they stoop to doing this it is true misinformation is out there

as far as the mainstream whatever that means i guess we mean big tech going after

literally everybody for spreading misinformation though

i don't see that happening i see that as as over the top

and i think that in cases where it can be proven that

the people were

ah

deliberately spreading misinformation

or were paid to spread misinformation

i think that yeah i think that it should be fine under your t o s to remove those accounts thanks so yeah i don't know how the laws are in canada but

in the united states the first amendment

has no regard for the intention whatsoever so what the intention of so called russians and the internet research agency

is

has no relevance and no bearing on the first amendment whatsoever

shut up sut up

i would like to hear has finished and then we're going to wrap up and any other comments would have to be said during your outry yeah

as

yeah so basically

this is the this is the conclusion you would have to draw if you're thinking about this rationally

so called consensus information truth is a matter of institutions

and it's a matter of trust in institutions research agencies universities and so on and so on

this is where the so called fact checking verifiable truth is actually happened

and if we can accept

that we live in a human reality we are human beings we live in a society

and you know

we are human beings we have a human reality reality is not just rocks and trees it's also human beings

we must also accept

that the matters that concern human beings

are also relevant to the the

deeper sentiments and subjective position and class position and the

popular sentiment of the people if

the institutions have failed to garner the trust of the people

you do not crucify the people and say no the people are wrong

you evaluate the deeper reason why institutions

have lost the trust of the people

mmhm

and because ultimately these institutions only exist because they claim to serve the people why do why anything in our society

should have any relevance beyond serving the human society in the first place

it doesn't exist for someone else it exists for us

now

if there is so called widespread russian disinformation

a which i doubt

ah the reason for err in the past

or in the present the reason for it

would be that despite spreading misinformation and from a purely perspective of factual truth verified by institutions

the russians are tapping into something that is true

something that is true on a deeper level which is the fact

that there is a deep

the antagonism within american democracy whether the russians are going to accentuate that antagonisally true but it's spiritually true

yeah but if i know you're really not you're not literate or educated so you don't actually know that the sense of truth that you mean which isn't within the realm of natural science from a philosophical perspective

is an extremely narrow

i

the view of what truth is truth does not just mean natural scientific truth

truth also intlorty

through this

sorry

based on whose authority

how do you know that's right there's no i'm not speaking pretending to anyone's authority right now we are here debating ultimately with the goal to persuade as many people now i'm going to guess i have more viewers than you

so i guess i'm more th authoritative than it is that is that is that it

what are you trying to ask what are you trying to ask c wait what are you trying to ask clear

oh wait

there is there is no there is no unconditional a you at all there's no unconditional authority

ok let me be clear when i'm talking n whatd he else is talk

ok

and

i said haz was going to wrap us up

until we go into outra

so has please finish your statement that everybody's going to do outrods everyone yeah yeah so i think out i'll just finish with this just to be clear there is this is probably the central thesis here

there is no such thing as an unconditional authority of truth

every single expression of truth

in reality is conditional it's conditional first

based on the material premises of the institution

the amount of popular trust in that institution

uh and so on and so on it is always conditional h

and never simply existing in the aither unconditional simply the truth out there

m

so n none of the actual discoveries of modern and natural science like quantum mechanics and on none of this would make sense by this old view of truth

that you are taking for granted

ok

were going to do out shows now i'm going to start with the two people i think i probably should was going to be fabian

ause maybe you want to say something

that i think is going to be

zand and kevin and then i'll go normal order

fabian

yeah i don't know what the hell is happening here tonight but i'm just fucking i'm andn caap agreeing with the marxist leninist here right like the german philosophers

you know

already debunked this idea of like empiricism being like

complete and utter truth right like

logic is conditional now

understanding you know from a more conservative mindset you have individuals like merton in structural functionalism and functionalism right

you have to build

you have to you know if you want science to make sense you have to assume things are true

at that moment and then build upon those assumed truths in the future

and that's where bias comes in and that's where things occur but

this idea that truth

right can just be

we can just say everything else that disagrees with the ideological narrative of the institution is somehow misinformation

i mean

you've seen this

play out with the beginning of the pandemic and where we are now right like you've seen individuals come out and say

hey there's a lab leak theory in china

and then a bunch of people saying that's total anutter bullshit and now the institutions are like well you know maybe the lab league theory was was true right

we we still don't know for any certain right there's historical ateologies

looked at in the science that assumes that this was probably an accidental lab leak

but i mean there's also plenty of experts saying that it wasn't and now this is being challenged right so when you say that you have

authority

on what is and isn't true what you're really saying is

i have a power i balance because of the popularity of my ideas and i have the right to exert my power over those individuals that have less power than me

right

um i not it's is very you know po critical theory and very marxist of me but i'm but you know sometimes you know a broken clock is right twice a day right this is

fucking

this is a perfect example of that right and so and again talking about this the situation with laurence southern

you know i had one of my viewers just looked at alex jones right

he's gone from three million to seven million since march

right

and so when you say like hey well we platform them and then people don't discover him

but then you openly admit

that people talk about the censorship and you openly admit that the streisand of fact works

then you understand that the reality of the situation in the world that we live in is that no one lives

on a social media echo chamber

what they really live in is a social media echo chamber plus their friends and family plus political speeches plus the news plus all of these different ideas and things

and that de platforming laurrence southern or ded platforming an individual

all youre going to do in summation

is you'r going to allow them to express their views

in such a way that they want where they control them and they control the backlash within their own community

and conservatives i think i've shown with

moral foundation theory from jonathan height and personality psychology are very much

into in group preference a forty structures and secretity and those differences are going to cause

those people to coalesce together

debt

thanks exam

yeah um i guess my main i like my main

thesis statement of this whole drama or this whole topic is that i think a lot of people are sort of overblowing the idea of platforming an individual person i can understand if it's someone like alex jones but

um as far as laurence southern goes i don't think any harm is really caused by it realistically speaking

um and i don't really take issue with people that do it

it's i think that

if you're going to be a debate

figure who does panels and debates people and you're on the left then yeah go out there and debate anybody who disagrees with you right you're going to find

in some like laurence southern you'll find a pretty damn good challenging debate and that's always something you should look for to improve your skills

i don't really have much of an issue with it personally

kevin casting

think so on so just let me also make clear i didn't say it was a the beginning

the last time you can respond to anybody talk about this topic is the intro to the next topic so let's say somebody responds to you here and you're like fuck i can't say anything

you can say something during the intro the next topic about the stopp

governing nor

yeah thanks st and so i just want to quickly respond to something that has said earlier about how

basically making a determination that somebody was acting

to spread misinformation that that

a to sut down an account based on that would be a violation of the first amendment

i want to be clear i'm not making an argument for the government now that the government can pursue

people that are acting as unregistered foreign agents and that was pursued against michael flynn for example because he didn't disclose that he was paid five hundred thousand dollars

by the turkish government for example while lobbying donald trump but

as far as it relates to individual users on social media platforms

that's up to private companies and their terms of service that's not a that's not under the

her view of the first amendment that's a private interaction at that point

that you you know using those platforms you sign up but according to their t o s and so

the t o s or rather the first amendment doesn't guarantee you the right to have a twitter account for example it guarantees you the right to not have

the government silence your ability to speak but

i do just want to say on the point about platforming lauren southern

and platforming all right or all light

figures at large

i again i'm going to stand by by saying that you're better off

having your ideas

you know

basically when they're engaged with

being there to defend yourself rather than having these figures react to you again if you have a sufficiently large platform

a

then then you are just letting them say what you said and make fun of you and

and thinged your view completely by their bias

for their audience who then becomes you know an echo chamber and these are pretty big echo chambers i mean

we're just talking about seven million people as as scott brought up with regard salx shones it's a pretty big sizable percentage of people and so

when you look at when you look at platforming at large you're better off being in the room you're better off

not being able to challenge people but the only point and i'll say this is just

have a good dog whistle radar that's really about it so thank you

ok next is going to be jolowis

yeah i'm just personally of the camp that this this isn't a game for me

right like

these ideas involve me not existing

for some of these individuals and i'm just that ain't down for me

now if you like understd because again like we know how these incentive structures work on twitch

these individuals have no

i

monetary interest to change their positions

so i i for me i just

that just ain't it for me but granted like i dedicated my space to be not

doing that type of shit but

for people who want to sort of like gamify this and

politics is a game in navigating

within these spaces is a game and you want to create like a little

outraged drama that leads into social currency that gets

them into the same room as you and then you want to like

as they're as you're challenging this individual and thinking that your chat is

really excited and cheering you on and giving you bits and donations and subs that's what i want to do the then go do that i can't stop you from doing that

but

it just it just ain't for me um

but for some of you it is and good i just hope that when you're in these spaces that

you do challenge these ideas in the way that is sufficient

that's all i ask you know

yeah

now i'm going to throw it over to jangles

to

i got i got whiplash from that one

if we had gone in like wanted to talk about truth and misinformation and what constitutes like authority and scientific knowledge and stuff

i could have been so ready for that or i would have been like supers pump to that

but i

huh okay maybe next time um

so about platforming and

so like i do sympathize with joe here so

uh ya

sometimes like topics are a game for other people w should not a nice intellectual exercise but sometimes

is your idea

so

i'm a gay man i grew up in a conservative environment i've had to argue for my own identity for my

not my entire life but my entire adult life right so i've had consequences both ofm like losing friends losing family and sometimes like a like

being the victim of actual violence

i know what the stakes are

oh

i know it's not just a game for a lot of people but at the same time like

what else

we got like fight for our ideas

i think our ideas are good like my favorite catch

something i want to make in a catch prase

i think we can win

even when our opponents show up

right that's something i truly believe i think our ideas are better

i think we're smarter than them i think we're better at rhetoric than them i think we're hotter than them

and all we have to do is show up study our shits

and we will win we can like win in this battle of ideas of course it's a way more complicated than that

but so what we can figure it out

and i'll j go aha and say it i fucking destroy lor and southern i imt pussyfoot around here i destroyed or in southern

the reason i did is because i know i knew the topic front back insideway

would i am an expert in that topic nothing else but that topic

i picked i was something that i was an expert

also had a few debates on der my els so i knew like how to ask questions i knew how to engage in rhetoric

so

yeah we can win

when they show up

all right don't be scared of laurence

but if you don't want to deal with her don't i don't i wouldn't force that upon anyone but

don't get mad when other people do it

but

at theend the day it's

s just twitch pole

come

like it's not it's it has an impact

but it's not go to be world changing the best debate in the world on twich is not

world

at least i

was

then i already do the ultro

sorry

got a few

i thught it over to connor

yeah so i've been taking this around in my head a little shout out to my friend tiberius

tiberius d because his cynicism

to push me to this political theory

he was wondering and asking me like hey how much of this percentage is like actual battle of ideas how much of this is actual philosophy actual politics actual this actual that

in my optimistic guess is maybe twenty

i think eighty percent of the twitch shot t v politics debate scene is culled the personality force of personality rhetoric

flare

and that sucks

but if you look at our politics

that's also true

think about all the people that we talk about even within our electoral scene

mitch mcconnell a o c

diane feinstein

all the all these like little unique personalities that while they have electoral impact they become

villains with their own culture personality do donald trump being another person hillary

being another person

and they've essentially weaponized the attention of the public

in order to forward their ideas and their agenda

the reason why i bring this up

is because i think it's ok and it's good

to have the philosophical battle of ideas and as a matter of fact i that's part of what i try to do i try to bring some level of substance

to the things that i say

but what i would also say is that

you need to be willing to you can't just as we were talking about earlier

you

he

just

debate

you also have to argue

you have to have a rhetorical flourish you have to have talent you have to have a skill

the reason why i know about has

before i've ever fucking seen him

it's because he has this

beautiful ram

about the mongolians that's like ninety seconds long that's one of the most like intense fucking rants i've ever seen in my entire fucking life

um and that's because he has charisma in in polish and flourish and

all that kind of shake kind of in like a in a brutal fuck and way

but if you can follow that up at that some level of substance

that makes you a

um so what i would say is

let's not run away from hard fights let's not run away from hard can conversations

let's not pretend that we're above rhetoric or

layer or cults of personality

let's

you know let's have these fights know what they are

and basically kick ask and take name

that would be my advice

so i'll leave it there

that

m

we can now goeing to throat over the dem machine to wrap this topic up

yeah

so there as several things

that i

kind of one of the point

touch on real quick i

one there is a big question that i do have to bring up which is

when

superpower broadcasting was talking au

forgot your name suddenly

was talking about

private companies can dictate whatever is on their platforms and things at what point do we consider

that

these platforms have gotten so large and they've they've encompassed so much of the american populace

inanumber

slf

that it is now the town square in

when do we consider that is

something that you cannot be removed

that you can't just be shut out of the internet and communicate with all these people

that was point one

i

the other thing that worries me is if we do platform people

then of course like

fabian and has and even counterpoints is talking about

that way

oh

is that they're going to take their audience with them and

the other thing is if they're very loyal to their

content creator whether be alex jones or something like that

they're not going to

be in the same space as us

on twitch

and they're not going to

co pollinate they're not going to bother to go look at anybody reacting to alex jones stuff because they're only going to go to

info wars dot com that's their main source of news they're not going to get it from anywhere else

if they don't want to

if they're not somehow forced to or

accidentally doing it

kind of

and

there's one last thing that

we

they don't think of it before the intro the next one

but yeah i just i just worry that when you start

dictating what is truth

and you start

telling people that this is

decidedly wrong

because our institutions say it

and half the people don't believe the institutions and you're fighting an uphill battle and you're never going to get anyone to change their

a

now we're moving on to the next topic

which has to do with confederate statutes

recently a confederate statue

was taken down in virginia

of the confederate general robert e lee

o one second i believe i have

something on this sday

saved

where is it i'll have to find it in a moment

but

the debate has once again resurfaced as it has many times in history

about

whether or not we should remove these statues whether they're a part of history they need to be preserved

or are monuments to traitors etc you get the jests

so what i'm going to do is start in the top left hand corner with

counterpoint

in the immortal words of indiana jones

they belong in a museum

and what i mean by that

is take these mother fuckers down

most of them were put up in the twentieth century they were not put up in the wake of the civil war

they were put up during a time when the

folks from the south

were trying to sanitize and revisit their history in order to make it

better

um i think it was called like the great revival or the great resurrection or something like that but it was basically a time period where like some other politicians

wanted to reclaim confederate history

the reason why i think they belong in a museum and not like melted down or pissed on

is one

every single time that you basically take down one of these monuments and you're actively going to destroy it

you're going to have a bunch of fucking confederates who say it's not hate it's heritage or some shit like that basically have a fucking panic attack in public

and you know

fuck that like leicious

get him down stick m in the museum

and once you're in the museum you can have a conversation you can literally have a conversation about the legacy of slavery

you have a conversation about reconstruction and how it wasn't enough

you can have a conversation about why these monuments went up in the first place

and you can have a conversation about their profound psychological legacy on the united states of america

and why there was basically any kind of controversy would taking them down in the first place

um i think this is two birds one stone while basically

you know

being a optical solution that gets things done

so that's where i'm at

yh

ok one second oh

yeah hold on is the is the moing of

republican like youre fucking idiots and take it down is there fucking idiot

said you need to take out on to stel but we have gone all right

this is the person who debated laurreence southerno

what

hate ha hate hate hate

everybody quite demish

is it ok

a

i really don't have any interest in the statues i don't particularly like statues too much in and of themselves unless they have some sort of point

to them that they're trying to really

like my state capital in south carolina think the confederate flag being in a mem

zero

mute

way i am muted

you're not we can well how did i say that why did i say that sandra call

go back to coping tho thatls pretty fun to watch

youm machine

ok so

uh we

just took down the confederate flag like

twenty years ago i think at this point it it

i don't remember exactly when they did but it was atop the state house and

there was a biggo argument about it

and

they wanted to also take down some statues and what they did was they came to this consensus that they'll take it off the top the state house way the fuck up there

ands barely seable and they put it on the street

so it went from

somewhere way up there w you couldn't tell and then they made it in your face

so we' eventually got it removed from there and put the museum

however i

i don't really care that much it's not worth the fight

like

it's something that we can all agree on as long as we don't forget the history of what happened

how it was resolved and how we

keep going forward while staying together

and not just dividing each other a part

i don't agree with

some of the methods that people are doing by ripping down the statues because you're going to get people have an emotional reaction

because they're like you're trying to tear down history you're trying to make us forget these things and

that's going to cause a viscle reaction that you're not going to be able to fight with any sort of reason

so

bring it to a

city council w give m the

change it the right way

and get everybody to agree

as best you can you're never going to get every ready

agree on any

so

that's all i really got to say about the stat

amp

thanks a going to be fabian liberty

yes so i have a bit of a unique perspective because i'm actually from richmond virginia i'm not docing myself right so this is the monument we're talking about which was the first

the confederate monument ever put up for robert leon on monument avenue

i

i will agree that there are far too many confederate monuments right we have fifteen hundred roughly currently

and over seven hundred roughly seven hundred eighteen of them are statues right like

that's obviously too much

the majority of them were placed between nineteen hundred and nineteen fifteen right the n w a c p was founded in nineteen o nine we know

why most of these monuments were put in place right they were

they were put in place to cause fear

to and to

you know a lod you know

get a response of fear from black

people in this country right i mean we know that it was used as a way of reasserting domination

against those people as their gaining some forms of rights and liberty

and fighting that cost

at the same time

you know and by the way it's not called it was called the lost cause movement counterpoints is what you're looking for is the southern revisionist

form of history but i think that the issue here is

has a lot more context which will obviously be brought out in this discussion but

i think the issue here is that some monuments probably do need to stay

such as the first one ever in the capital of the confederacy

that is an important part of our history

but we don't need seven hundred eighteen fucking statues

and i do think it's important

that there isn't just a lost cause movement in history but there's a white washing

of history

in the other direction as well and a lot that isn't being talking spoken about in terms of that

and the denial of that

i think has caused a lot of

of of you know the right wing southern kind of confederate types to fight back in rage and anger

because we're not honestly looking at the history of the civil war

and i'm sure we'll get into that and i'm sure that will trigger a few people and we can have those discussions later

o

i'm now going to throut over to infrad

yeah just

going to quickly respond to the thing about what

but casle said

well the whole point is that what exactly are these private companies defending they're defending the so called american values

one of the most important ones being free speech so that's why i mentioned the first amendment otherwise what are they protecting

why are they acting as organs of the national security state in the realm of information

okay that's just a quick thing

now i want to talk about for a second also

you see the paradox here with the case of the confederate statues is that it is actually not about the statues

on the question of the statues it's my view that

this is especially true for the ones that were erected in the twentieth century

uh i don't think

ultimately i don't think they have a place

and i have no issue with the statues being taken down

what

because i believe this i also believe

that

it is possible to persuade the majority to agree with this so that it wouldn't be such a

a sighte of division

uh among people in the in the country

it's clearly not about the statues anymore it's become a kind of the

sight of the battleground of the culture war between kind of cities and rural people and this kind of antagonism

between more educated people and more working class people

it's become this kind of um

proxy for a culture war which is also extended beyond the confederate statues and is now being extended to the statues of the founding fathers and other

and relics the issue is not so much the content

of the position of the people want to bring on the statues which i don't necessarily disagree with

it's the fact that

m

it is

a way of asserting the authority of one political faction

over the other

the content here is not really that important it's just the form

so just to be clear about my position i'm not shedding any tears over statues being removed i don't care it's fine

but i also recognize that the objective implication is an acceleration of

culture war between the

the blues and red basically wright

so i think that's this really objective significance is it's been it's just a proxy for this

deeper difference

that

now i'm going to throorw it over to jangles

i think this is what have been this is been one of the topics where i don't know how the'

because the argument the primary argument in favor of keeping the statues up

is so

monumentally

bad that i don't know how it ever passes any sore

flight

the slightest bit of pushack

you do not

make statues to

ok

statues are about creating history

not preserving

history we don't have these conversations about historical like sites

if there's a battlefield during this civil war we don't have any conversation about preserving that obviously that's history something fucking happened

uh we don't have this we don't even have this conversation about like oh here's like a a general's like mansion or why should we keep this up for history

i've never heard i could be wrong the but i've never heard people like no that that's an actual historical place it doesn't matter if the dude's bad

thats a historical place stuff happened there

but these statutes are not about preserving history they're not about educating you don't educate

through statues i don't know what your k through twelve education was like but we never just went to a statue look at duden's like

and have a test on the statue

just a statue not of the information just a statue no you don't educate people you

venerate

trowo stats

you do not

i that's why and it's why like we don't put these things like thisse weren't erected in like simmity

or at least like the modern ones were rected instead cemeteries they were righted in like town squares public areas

they were there to like be a symbol

i't even say like we're going to talk about the founding fathers a little bit later

but like yeah the statues of like george washington and lincoln are the are statutes

george washingon

probable

but they don't educate people about these of these guys they're there to venerate the they're to like

prop up the founding fathers to as these big great men

and i don't think that's necessarily a bad thing like you can

make statues of great people

but we shouldn't pretend that it's about education it's about venerating

it's about like making these people seem like larger than life and

wonderful figures like

so

yeah i don't see the historical value in the statues at all statues are not there for the

you can have statutes that commemorate a specific like issue

are statute that commemorate a specific events

yeah awesome but

they're not educating people and if you say

that they're about preserving history

i think you're being

disingenuous is the spicy word i would use but i think you're at least you're off the

nex is going to be jellous

yeah um

a lot of sentiments that i hold and believe are were expressed earlier

i do believe that these statues don't have any place in the public sphere

i do think that

the place moving forward

considering how the laws are currently constructed is that these local communities have to

have conversations

with their councils and governments and figure out ok what statues can we deal with what statues can we deal with

for example in new jersey we have a monument i think it's in salem county it's in a in

it's in a cemetery that is protected by the department of tern affairs so the only

structure that would be able to help

get this monument and these and this commemoration of traitors out of my state

is through the federal government

a

with that being said i think that

if i believe that

talking about race is difficult in america because americans disagree on the history of race

then it's going to be a long hard battle

getting these statues out of these places because

parallel

problem here and ha's a lot of intersect

is that individuals understanding about

race issues

the history of the united states

the history of the united states before

the founding of the united states

as we learned

through people's

visceral pushback of the sixty nineteusend project is incredibly insufficient we need to do a better job at

having historical

education in the united states especially around issues like these are world problems

like colonialism is a world problem not just an exclusive

american phenomenon and

there's so there's a lot to tackle within what i just said there that hopefully we can get to that

but that's all i got for now

caslee

ya thanks dohn

so just quickly response something that demon machine had brought up basically the point about free speech and everything you can vote to

to make big tach

utilities but until that's done there're still private companies and so it would technically be

infringement on their rights and then also to the point

that has brought up you do need to curtail some absolute freedoms in order to defend freedom at large of private companies deem

or even in this case the government deems somebody to be acting as a foreign agent undisclosed unregistered

they can still clamp down on that and not

then be a violation of your freedom you don't have the freedom to do literally anything

getting into the topic about the confederacy

and confederate monuments that it's already been brought up but it's worth highlighting

that

the the majority of the monuments were set up during the jim crow era and they were not as

as janles had mentioned they were not specifically set up for any purpose of education

or even just oh this is our history or whatever

it was specifically done to intimidate

s intimidate black people

and it was done to basically it was a like let's just be honest it was a giant cope it was a cope over the fact

that the souts

the southern confederacy they committed treason against the united states

they fought a civil war

they got hundreds of thousands of people killed

and they lost

and they had to basically accept

that

slavery was over and so they the

for

all that time

they were in a giant cope mode about and they set up all these monuments

ah you know as already mentioned over fif or around fifteen hundred or so

as just essentially a giant cope and a giant glamurization and veneration as jingles mention

of the these people such as general lee

who did say you know that he would not be willing to accept

of black people and white people as equals and so there's this whole line oh it was about mistates rights

its the state's rights to own slights like let's speak real about that

it would be similar

to having monuments

to uh the nazis in uh germany and and you know there's this kind of idea well

mayb we keep it was mentioned uh it was mentioned by scott well we keep one

and the confederate capital it's like but that would kind of be keeping you know

monument to one of the top n s d a p people in berlin it's like i want to get rid of all them and put them in museums i don't think that they have any place on public lands and especially

in the case of like courthuses and whatno because like let's say that you're somebody let's say that you're a minority

and you're going to court

how are you supposed to have the impression that you're going to be treated equally under the law

if there's literally a monument

to general lee

outside the courthouse that's insanity right so

but i think i think they all got to go to museums i know a lot of people want to take it into their own hands

and remove these and there's a lot of debate around that

i i don't really

like like yeah that techally that to land and then w not i don't really have any sort of like hard feelings towards anybody wh's going to do that but technically in order to do it the best way

just vote to have them all moved to museums but

really realistically speaking

you might need to have a federal law prohibiting too but it does need to be done

democratically it does need to be done through the government it can't

just be

people going in taking matters in their o hans so thank you

zan and i got to use about the i'll be right back

yeah i feel like the reaction to the bread panels mean that i posted makes my argument better than any words could

these statues have no place being in public places

a lot of them were put up during the civil rights movement as a way of intimidating black people in the south

they aren't a symbol of remembrance of history they're a symbol meant to terrify a group of people who have been downtrodden and oppressed in this country for a very long time

these are figures who fought

to preserve the practice of slavery

um roberty lee who i believe the statue is being taken down of that's being discussed right now

um i mean there there was a story about him and how he was particularly cruel

to slaves that he and his father owned

this is a horrible figure these people obviously should be learned about in school

and in uh museums and not h

not being put up in the middle of town squares and in front of courthouses

sweet free for all time

yes so i do

you mind if do you mind if i step in

yes so i think i think this really illustrates i think super you know and i'm not trying to be an asshole when i say this but like you're

misunderstanding of civil war history

really i think illustrates kind of the issue

and kind of illustrates also has

kind of comon here

because you're your history is really it really completely negates

class consciousness and what and what the powerful wealthy elite wanted and what the poor wanted right and what was actually happen we well no and i but your ability to perceive the historical context is is devoid of that right

see like what you have to understand is that

for the overwhelming majority of southerners in the south this was about slavery

this was absolutely about slavery right and it's something called heir invoke democracy right

hen vote democracy is this idea that

you use the juxtaposition of a class of people such as the black slaves

right and you use them as a means of

keeping down the poor whites

and at least the poor whites say well at least i'm not a slave at least i'm not a black slave right

but what you also have to understand is that for the wealthy elites

in these situations in the civil war right the wealthy elite

i

they were far more concerned about tariffs

right that you have to understand the history of the tariff of abominations right

in eighteen twenty eight

you have to understand what was occurring in the stock market leading up to eighteen fifty seven

you have to understand the panic in the banks of eighteen fifty seven

right and you have to understand

you have to understand a lot of about the history right so when they when peoples

you actually understanding a lot of the history the question that i have ight is that how many of you have actually this resech

wait cd v why are you here why you're coming in they're coming in to interrupt i mean i will saans very specific question by the panel host himself was anybody else talking right now to mot mike

exactly i want to answer dyl's question so dylan

well the answer to your question

right is i heard a lot of people throug their opening statements that clearly did not understand a single fucking thing right was only looking this for a very narrow minded point and it's obvious that the knowledge base of the room needs to be fucking expanded like for instance anybody ever consider that perhaps maybe the reason w the statues were werected had specifically to do with trying to make sure that the poor white population to get broked into the whole fucking civi war and was fighting on behalf of the wealthy plantation owners that wanted to

keep their institution of slavery in place to remind them not to be such fucking fools in the future did anybody even bother fucking considering that no so you want to take down you sayk statues in an effort to try to bring that shit back what the fuck is wrong with people when you think you shou need to get rid of and a race history so that ideas a simple that can be fucking lost

wait waitk wor there were four people that wor ads scripted it

ele

there were poor people that were condscripted in i like a army

right like there were poor people that were constributed to both armies doesn't make them good guys it doesn't mean that we should have

monuments of you know gobels or whatever the hell or it doesn't mean that we should have monuments of like

literally hitler or whatever it doesn't mean that we should have monuments of he like robert e lee you can recognize that people

that fought on that side weren't all racist weren't all evil

but it doesn't mean that you venerate their chennerls so so let me ask you this and w in the organization actually who is the organizations actually o and restated my point with anger

wait

for a second

cv

you can respond to a thought over the fabian

yes so who is the organization that actually that actually opened they got these

these things ac right no re probably g the feder the exactly so what was there nefarius intentions there they wanted to have their family members that died in this war to be remembered so that we as a nation make these same type of situations moving forward is not probablylea at the same time not to forget

right the black people were enslaved and that we don't need to repeat that shit either there's a whole lot of reasons why you would want to remember this history

simply taking i got out in a race against i wnt the other point i made out from way back to the other point i madit

ok we have a lot of people in this room now

we're going to do this

and try to do this somewhat orderly so se tov

finish what you're saying

and we guys aret the fabian

ok and to the other point a minute ago right it's not at jangles as a matter of fact right your point about like we don't go to the statute to you know study the statute right you're right you don't you learn this history in grade school right all the way up and then when you see the statute you go oh

this is why i need to remember the sheep

right that's exactly right

this is why we have the statute there to remember people it's true when it comes to roberty lee right and some of the actions a chancellors for were there human stonewall jackson absolutely decimated the fucking union army right it's not just for that it's for a lot of

historical bases around the entire time period right

and remembering george washington thomas jefferson right the world war two memorial a lot of these things are on cap the the fucking

the capital island themselves are like

you have to remember the history and if you don't have the history there to remember and you regulate it to a fucking museum and people don't bother going to the museum guess what

this is exactly false

it's actually not

history

so we're going to throw it to fabian first

you know i love i love you see t v you're an entertaining guy but you basically came in and shit on what i was saying to make my ideas educating people in the history of the civil war and to

a mean

like it's con flucked up

but that being said

right like just to finish up my point right it you have to understand the history of the tariff structure

and i think one of the and you also have to understand what this has become culturally

for right wing rural americans living in these places right these are not although these statues were erected primarily from one thousand nine hundred one thous nine hundred fifteen right

during the n wle a c p coming in during the re

the resurgence of the k k k right these statues in many ways

were put up

as a means to intimidate black people you also understand that the cultural context of today

comes around it does come to the issue of states rights it does come to the issue of federal overreach of power and i think one of the most powerful things is that before the civil war

people used to say the united states of america are a good place to live

and after the civil war the language changed to the united states of america

is a good place to live

and i think that is one of the strongest arguments of how much the federal g power grew

and how much states rights

we're kind of pushed to the side

as a result of the civil war

and we can get in later talking about the fact that if you take down any confederate statue

you better be willing to take down lincoln because lincoln was a horrible fucking war criminal

dangels

we they're still mut to jangles

so yeah you said like the same thing about ten minutes ago and it's not your fault at all but i was going to respond to it then

so i

i can respect that like yeah the it's it's more complex than just slavery slavery could be the primary reason but there's still more to it than that

but

you would have to make the primary galvanizing force it wasn't the primary reason but the primary galvanizing force for the citizen lead to fight the war

yeah but then you'd have to make the case that these statues like

do you honestly think that if we ask people like why should the statute j be in place

it's like oh well it's it shows us the history of terrorists

tariffs and the stock market

and class consciousness that's what that's what it shows it history

of

i don't think you can make a convincing argument for that if anything

it obviuskates with the true history

obvious's like oh no it reinforces that what's called the lst causemth

plascs yeah

yeah this is one of things the lost cause was there it' is there to venerate the heroes

specifically in particularly roberty lea which is why he has

if i'm not mistaken the most statues of anyone general from the confederate army

yea because he's one of the strongest generals that ever existed in human history from a tactical perspective

and the last cause and there's a lot of les yeah and he lost

cool so

yeah but this is part of the laost cause myth like you're trying to gerate these people he was such a great general fighting for what

how many great generals were like nazis do we build statue

them

who cares they are a great generals they're fighting for the wrong cause

like that's what the statues are there for and you kind of just exemplified it's no good there you civil w to there are no good guys in the civil war there a if you better right and of course there were there was a better side come on

no there was't there both ek

and then i'll throw it over to kevin and connor fabian

yet they were both evil

thats you understand about the history of w slavery is an institution whats bot right now i'm getting boreds fuck from the shit kind of want to see the mold bug interview

i don't care about this topic at all i literally don't

right

it was only until frederick douglas fucking fought with him over and over and over again in eighteent is luren online in a loud black

right

there's a lot of things that peop may talk to lauren herself or

and the things that lincoln did i mean lincoln

fucking arresting the journalists okate the fucking

exactly this is are you getting rid of lincoln statues

are you for taking down all statues of president lincoln

why that's the thed topic isn't it

i

but no but do the statues you're

comd pvted away from the boint do the statues elucidate those neuwance

i don't think you make states

well the do care ust the fact that the average american is stupid a was not a reason to take ad statues but might wait years there of the very discussions we had today

well no they don't they obfuskate them aren't statues are about states rights big man strong very good very good general that's what the statues are there for they

obfuscate they push away those nuanced conversations like

we can read books more what do you need a statute in twenty twenty one

you have in your pocket access to

all information that has ever been collected

all of it all of you ss more aboutping the information that says more something more about the person interpret in the information rather than the information itself right i e the information being the statute if the person has a viscal reaction information

tell me whaty whatever makes the st whatever it whatever it is that it pulls from the individual and has a bring to their forethought that's the information specifically that i'm talking about

you already have that youre s we get the individual has nothing if they had nothing the why would they have be having such a viscal reaction because they already know the person is you right so it's wn fucking reactions the fucking problem not the statue itself

thank you very much on t

seats even the

yeah yeah i think so

uh so i got a couple points here i'll get to ce tv too but basically

it is worth noting here it's been mentioned multiple times i got to emphasize it again

they weren't erected immediately the boat

some but the majority of them were not erected right after the civil war

for people that lost you know veterans in that conflict

because you could see why people might do that because they lost loved ones and a lot of those people that did fight for the south

works you know that was just basically they were born in the wrong place

and they were conscripted into it

h

no no no them being erected during the jim crow era was specifically done

with the intent to intimidate black people and basically cope over the fact that they lost the civil war

and they they did not want their

that there there racest sort of a gemony within that region

to be withered away and have to deal with and come to terms with egalitarianism because they were formerly

in you know a better material position by blarding over everybody else and they wanted to continue to

it basically said putting forcing everybody else into submission that wasn't white

now as far as this idea about both sides were evil in the civil war i'm not claiming that the union army was perfect nobody's claiming that abraham lincoln didn't have his flaws

but

yeah lotsor evils right i mean this false ipvocations pretty goofy

and also

and finally on this

the point that c t v s brought up

that's been mentioned about how well no these are monuments they serve to educate

no as jangles noted they serve to venerate but also

if the only way that we can get education the only way that we can be aware of something

is that literally have

i guess hundreds of monuments of it

that how do we know anything about you know the formation of the universe and all this kind of stuff because last time i checked

there weren't there weren't monuments to every random fact in the last thirteen billion years of the universe that led up to us being able to be here yet we still have astronomy textbooks we still have

you know scientists that are aware of the history of the universe don't need monuments for all of that kind of stuff these monuments you could have these things in a museum you have textbooks to educate

the the reason why you have these kinds of monuments in courthouses

it is simply to intimidate black people in the u s let's just be reaburt

so i ust no you're wrong

wll you're fucking wrong're

stop

i want to throw it to connor then has because neither of them have talked

yeah well

connors but i want to throw it over to

his after connor

yeah so there was this really weird contention that you know mr fabian threw out there that i kind of want to address

listen

the fuck and i get that like you know somebody lives for an entire fucking generation and like then you can take

out of context quote holy fuck

god dam interrupted again can you'll hear me or no

yes

i'm going to fuck

king myself ho sure

we can hear you is fine

he can't hear us

ok let me just go really quick i just wanted to address castley's

thing that he said in the beginning

he said there cannot be absolute freedom he has a freedom at large

yeah no one's talking about absolute freedom per se but it's just a matter of the freedom to have certain types of political expression

which is a pretty low bar as far as defending the so called sacred american values of free speech is concerned

if you can't defend that then what values do you have in the first place is an utter contradiction

and this notion of freedom at large is a completely meaningless and vague nothing

a which only seeks to defend those who happ those unaccountable representatives in silicon valley

ah and the deep state who are not elected

whose idiology is completely outside of the u s constitution in the u s state

a we didn't like that we didn't it wasn't accountable to us so i don't see how this can be the representative of so called freedom at large that's all i want to say deep state noo has the thing is though the thing is right has

is that you should try reading mackie vlly sometimes sometimes you've got to be flexible enough

to deal with threats in a way that you live in canada you don't need to read makiali you don't even live in america

this is true for all western countries you live in america and you sent for china for ye and shes but why you so why you're not the prince kevin you don't even you're not the president you don't even live in america so what are you going tore you yeah but i live in america so at least i can t i concern about you can't even vote concerned about the preservation of western democracy liberal democracy it's not in our constitution yeat those

we're not in our prostitution you do's be clear

were we're're vearing off

ok we want to stay back on the topic of

of the statute

ok

do either of you have something to say about statue

oh yeah just one quick thing i'll say

m

honestly i think everyone's losin sight of the ball here it's it would be nice if this entire controversy about statues

was just a matter of a rational argument and that

that's how it was going to be negotiated but the truth is

that these statues represent different interests and different sections of our society

and it's not you're not going to come to a consent can commensurate agreement based on arguing about it rationally

you have to acknowledge

that to some americans statues have a certain meaning

and to other americans they have a different meaning the best course to avoid the pointless division over these statues

is to just first acknowledge that fact and for the people who do want to bring down the statues i'm one of them i don't think they should be there we should actually strive to persuade the majority of americans

i not just in terms of rational argumentation but persuade them in terms of offering a new political alternative in perspective

that will allow them to also be on board with it so it's not such a point of

a point was this i don't see anyone who addresses this argument this is a point of extreme polarizing political division

divisions not going to be bridged based on rational argumentation

it's only going to be bridged when we recognized the difference in the first place

it's also the reality achevement that

black aby met talking

so one second if you want to talk raise your hand this is how we're going to

ok

the machine hasn't said anything i think

okight

on to stop it yet

so

no connor

you've said thing on the topic yet

so you got to give it to him

i got to give it to the machine hasn' said any

the thing that bugs me is that

a lot of what hasa saying is pretty true where it comes to

a lot of people are going to have a viscal reaction because they feel like you're removing their history and you're going to have to

acknowledge the fact that you're doing something to some people in exist that exist that do maybe have heritage that

are concerned about them

being removed however you' got to bring them along with the

convince me you're not just trying to erase

and

that's

something that i don't want to have happen either we have

mind of our history and we have to understand as much as we can about it and

i would like to keep statues maybe not where they are

but if somebody put in the time and effort i mean

like it seems pretty ridiculous

can you elaborate on what you mean by people being errased

oh well

a lot of these statues were erected by the daughters of the confederacy

sure

things like that so what were they trying to say

or why did they ercect why did they ercect

was it was a city governments in the majority of the

in

how many of the cases was

govern

there's not a gazing my question i'm asking you why were they i'm asking you why do you think they were erected and why do you think people feel like their culture

is being errased and who are these people that we're talking about let's be specific here

i mean

whoever has

heritage is

linking back to anybody that defended their

states

thank

what were they defending

at the time i

think it can vary a widely

a union army that was invading the south

h like there were there were people that were fighting for to keep slace absolutely it was the thing

but there are also people that were to fighting because you were marching across their

homestead

and you were just like are you with us or against us and i don't know if they had much choice

and there they didn't know what to do in certain

like are we going to challenge these ideas that like like you said you're going to in in the previous topic

can i

can can i fuck and do anything or can hoor you know i try to talk you ilok i'm just saying i didn't talk the entire port of the conversation i watched you try to challenge the idea wh c t v came in here and you you were if you fail you failed the bar and veered off the topic

so i'm just trying to make sure like if we're goinga

like keep

keep ourselfs on our word and say when there are

opinions and people who might intentionally or

i'm speaking generally in

it's a commentary on the previous topic and it's happening in this one

where if we're challenging these aresured i would love to doect the record can i do it without tending

yeah but i'd love to finish what i'm saying

because we didn't have this happen in the previous topics i wondering what's happening now

so

if we're challenging these things then we should probably then directly challenge what them machine is talking about here

because he talked about erasure

right and then i asked to be specific about

but who's who's a racing what's their culture and who are these people

if we were to identify them sutinctly and i don't think that bar was met

and so that's where i'm ot on that right now

ok so this is what i would like to address

is

basically i don't

give a fuck about the revisionist history because bait and i do think that you can make moral arguments about who was correct during the civil war

the assertion that we couldn't was weird as fuck to me

w which is basically that the whole reason why the civil war kicked off on the fuck in first place is because the republicans said

no you can't expand slave states out west

which the confederate states were absolutely relying on in order to perpetuate the fucking of the institution of slavery

so when they said no you can't expand out westward

the confederate states basically knew that it was only a matter of electoral time before the institution of slavery was destroyed

so as a result they declared secession because they didn't think that they would have a stronger opportunity to do so

specifically to maintain the institution of slavery

i think it about what one small on is thatuck on i'm not done yet

so basically

what i would say

is that while like ninety percent of the fucking population didn't individually own slaves they still benefited from slavery they still worked on you know slave plantations they still assisted

with with the infrastructure of the plantations and on top of that i'm pretty sure there were a decent amount of i think the average own slave was like between one and threes or something like that so even small homesteaders still benefited from slave labor so to protect not slavery ok bullshit c wrog you understand stop

actually a response to connors right little b but we're going to have congh it wait we're going to connor

finish the we're going to have

joe go then cee t v since he's

very passionate

all writ down fabian liberty see your hand and sand

oky i look forward to our fucking hot tub stream next week but i very much doubt that you've read as much fucking history as i have ok

so basically the fuck we'll sey you what with me yeah we'll see won't we

so the fucking point of it is

yes the union was fucking brutal but they were brutal after pussyfooting with the fucky confederacy for fucking two years under mcclellan where they tried to fuck and fight the confederacy with fucking kids clubs

and they kept backing off of every single real fight they had and eventually fuck and lincoln saying that hey this is dragging on way too fucking long we're not achieving any of our goals we need to go score sirt on these mother fuckers unleashed

william to comes to sherman and fucking god damn it why am i fucking blanket on it right now anyways you fucking know exactly what i'm saying i can see is god dm faceing my fucking rand literally

yes

fucking so so anyways

the fucked union w scorched earth on the fuck and south

but there's still air meoral argument here

that basically

you're you're fighting to continue to own human beings there is a moral calculus here in there is a correct side and with that a fuk and yield

the reality situation is i you'reway you know i was fix

now i said it was joe then you

oh sorry joe

we can acknowledge that there were slave holding interests and non slave holding interests

so like i'm i'm i'm responding to you connor but i recognize that

there's multiple communities watching here so i want to make sure i

this is on the table right

so we have been recognized that there were slave holding interests and non slave holding interests

and as much as people want to believe that the north

is this rightful just

institution

that was totally

i'm dedicated and motivated to

liberate african people

and as we get to social construction black people

we can recognize that both the north and the south

we're incredibly insufficient in that goal of black liberations

with that being said

the south

was very nefarious in the practices that they had

in terms of maintaining thse slaveholding interests

and that's something that i want to make sure is incredibly clear because even though we can acknowledge that

they

the slaveholding interests in the interests of the confederacy were just

wrong

period

we can all w think we also have to recognize that

the north in their compromises in this comper compromise of

expansion into native territory and

expansion to

basically the perpetuation of genocide was something that

both sides were equally complalcent and complacent

um and i think that's all to recognize because um because um

i think was liberty that mentioned about the thing about lincoln and i would just want to be on the record

and dylan shats going have to cope and seet

fuck abraham lincoln he was an insufficient president

and a a dirty a dirty filthy centrist

ok ok but but but that but again like we can argue about that we can arre about that portion on another day right because there are people who will get a very like viscal reaction to that b w was recognized that

sure i mean what's what's part of n funting father i wasn't a founding father i was thinking about that father i was trying i was try your that's ok i lost ok can i can i fuck and i need to make this i mean i do but i also want to but i also want to recognize because i have i also want to recognize because i wasn't antagonizing an individual earlier

but i'm just going to keep going it's very interesting individuals who want to challenge the ideas in the marketplace of ideas are currently silent in this conversation and not contributed anything

so i want to make sure that that's on the table and recognize before you before yout i know that was i know that you would i want to respect if you wasn't

there we go thank you don't so so like reality here check

reality

at the invention of the cotton gin right by eli whitney right before this time slavery was actually on the decline in the south

but when the cotton gen was a been invented it made the use of slave labor right much more efficient and therefore is what was driving the economy the result of that had the north ended up

creating a lot more tax the south which further led to the divide right so from that point right understanding that part of the history and then leading up to everything else that you said with the expansion west st absolutely right there but you're forgetting the key which is technology that led to the increase in slave labor which then created the further divide which then had us go through the entire fuckus civil war and the division of the people along the lines of is it states rights or is it not

and this is where i argue specifically that had we just a bad slavery bolish from the start we would have had this fucked problem because i think that everything else would have kind of settle itself out

but because of that and the evsa played out there we are where we are and it is exactly why the statues just to get back on fucking topic need to remain where they are so that we have real conversations about these real fucking things and we don't have half asked mother fucking dumb asses that don't know what the fuck they're talking about we're only only read half of the fucking history herere the points that they fucking want and then they substantiate those points by the half information that they have and they don't go

all the way into the fuck a nuance and get to the very bedrock of it which is where i settle at understanding that the white poor population down here in the south is not going to be taken advantage of by the white elitist no more which is exactly why we end up on the issue of states rights and fuck the federal government

w only directly c t v vote to be directly and ld to me directly so i'd like to respond so i acknowledgen' wait pretend fucking minut'es going to honor connor connor you were involved in an ok

san hasn't spoken in a while

kevin i's spoken a while

hasen spoken a lole

a fucked fabe has soken whill

connor you're not the only person ok

joe

but i wrote your name down joe

you can respond to that the i can not thank you

i acknowledged in my statement that there are slave holding interests and non slave holding interests we can have a longer conversation about every single slave holding interest and every single non slave holding interest but it's very funny to me as an individual who

always gives me hotshit for participating in extended nuance now wants to have this in a conversation about

statues so i want to make sure that's recognized and put on the record with that being said we can have an extended conversation

about the slave holding interest as you recognized you laid out just another context to say that i don't believe or didn't think that i understood that part of slave holding interest is just not true but

i just want to make sure that what's clear

we can talk any time you like youw

that

a fabian

sorry about that yes so um

god this is really gotten off the rails what i wanted to elucidate right is more i guess maybe somewhat of a centrist

position here right because i think everyone is kind of wrong in this in this debate

im

again i have to reiterate that a majority of these

statues did indeed go up

during a resurgence of the klu klux klan

and when the n w a c p was founded and when you have not the civil rights movement but the beginning

of those institutions that later led to the civil rights

many of these were indeed

constructed

in such way not to save southern history

but as a means of in and of interrogating

sorry intimidating people of color in america

right

but we also just as has alluded to in his statements

we also have to understand that these statues mean different things to different people

i think a lot of these statues need to fucking goo we don't need seven hundred and eighteen statues in the south right but if you're in louisiana

if you're in louisiana

and you're taking down a statue of general beauregard like and it's like the only one like that's fucking stupid

that's an important part of your history

like it or not right are we going to take down all of the christopher columbus statues because

he genocided native americans while also you justly ignore

without while completely ignoring the fact that the entire reason we created christopher columbus day was because of horrible things that happened in california

to italians and that it was designed for the very specific reason to prop up a minority group that had been punished

and had been marginalized in america wait like all of these things have nuance and context right

and when you just start saying fuck it all it's all black and white

and then you do the same thing with your history

it really just shows your ignorance on the civil war it shows your ignorance and the conversation and the history of the general

hang on i's got a nail on the head

like a lot of the the jathan lost cosme like the c t v enginame sorry but

thankly i love you you bought int the last cosm of a ton

the reason we let that perpetuate is to like have this comforting livee like ease tensions like oh no totally

yeah you can say that the it was about like states' rights and stuff and

yes slavery was on the way out anyway that's totally cool and you know the south that great generals

like no like

thisse comforting you just alluded to it like columbus dae was like alway's to it's to placate the italians it's this comforting lie to easet tensions

that's not history

that's the exact opposite of history like we should be honest with our histories we shouldn't like

perpetuate these comforting lies of which that's what the statues are there for you're kind of alluding to it in your statements but but you're but how to i want to take thing

pause for a second

who are you talking to jane

see t the void

we're talking to c

real fin chanel c t v so i'm going to have fabian respond in the c t v respond i got to go back to the list

but this is the thing about about this idea that like we just you have to keep some statues up

you have to have these it's not necessarily a veneration right

i think the the most reasonable solution to this problem

is let's say monument avenue

in richmond virginia

right there's already an arthur ash statue on monument avenue

fucke it get rid of stonewall jackson statue and you know what you should put in its place for stonewall jackson

a statue commemorating brown v board of education that happened in richmond county and richmond courthouse right you take these things and you add context to them

right you add other

forms of those six

we can get rid of the majority of statues of christopher columbus and in some of those places we should put up statues of bartolomeon de la cass right someone that actually fought for native rights that

fought for the recombenda system right that fought

in those same spheres and you can put those two things together so that we can have a conversation about the historical context but when you take down those things

that a group of people have associated a narrative identity with it

what you do is you cause political division and you cause wedge issues and all these fucking wedge issues about this bullshit thing about statues is so the democrats and republicans can continuously grows state power and fuck you over so that you can argue about fucking statues ins seat of paying attention to the shit that corporate fascism and neal liberals are fucking so every god damned deay i just want to quick say something i will

go anything yet so i do want to give y yes so

to me i think one of the biggest issues here when it comes to southern states in which statues are being erected

is that no one is acknowledging a different interests

with a different meaning so i think joe asked the question like who are these people you're talking about

it's very clear that after the civil war

and through the twentieth century

there has emerged or there was a continuity of a kind of

rural southern culture southern kind of a culture it's not

reducible to slave owners it's not reducible to the confederacy but

for a complicated reasons the reasons that are pretty clear

they have identified with southern lost cause and so on this kind of stuff as talk about double speed

as a form of a identity to just have an identity because there are differences between the rural southerners

and other

people northerners and other types of t

groups

and of course in the southern states there also is a good sizable population of of

people who are descended from slavery the black people descended from slavery right

so they for me are the most important

people

to take seriously when it comes to who can contend

the existence of these statues

these st liberal students who are not descendant from black people and so on

they are descent from slaves i'm sorry

who come down make a big fuss i don't think they should be part of the conversation so this is between

rural southerners and

people who descended of slaves

i think they should have more a

kind of dialogue and mutual interaction

because they attribute these statues different meaning and my view my optimistic view is that

what you've done by the way

sorry

which is dne by the way

yes my in my view if if this real dialogue can happen i think i

and rule southern people my optim my optimism is that what they lok are you going to do to go to find out who these individuals are you us bell have to have you puck a knock

no n no he is next don't worr no no no

uh no you're not going to go house to house um

i think if there's an authentic encounter between people like this they can come to an understanding that yes these statues represent a bad legacy

uh in the eyes of people descendt of slaves and uh i think this is a much more productive way of looking at it than

just seeing it as a culture war between republicans and democrats because

the real reason why it's a point of division is because there are different groups that attribute with different meaning

so that's my hoodle

who those mean you going let me talk about

wait

let me go talk about the order so everybody knows are included

so with c tv

then it zan then it's joe because joe also wanted

pond

i've moved him up the list a little bit

that's kevin in this connor

conor wrote your name down from earlier

v

oh so has how are you planning on finding out who it is that the people are that that are on this these particular sides of lines are you say so the right people and descens of slaves right so now you've got to start conducting ancestry tests on like all the people that for not yes that's fucking okirst of all i can just eep talking right i definitely keep u on doing it right so from here that's the only way that you're going to be able to find out who these people are you're going to have to to have some type of ancestry to trace them back

to whether or not that they were in fact a descendant of someone that was a slave or someone that was ascendedt of like a white fucking rural fucking person these people the conversation no fucking everybody has to drive by these fucking statues and take a look at so every fucking american needs to have a fucking opinion on this which is exactly why we go back to the root conversation of understanding what statues are put there to begin with right so a lot of these statues are put there to begin with because of the dollars of confederacy and they wanting to be able to have the history and heritage remember because their family

memembers fucking died right on history what heritage

so this is exact i named it off earlier i'm glad you were listening right you go back into bod you can listen to jale so from there

like understanding the history right on both fucking sides of this thing because there's a lot of history of a lot of different reasons that end up bringing up this conversation and having people learn a lot of information that they didn't know before

which is why i feel like it's very very important to make sure these things say exactly where they are now why and particularly favor to what you were saying n there were a lot of thew were bilt during one nine husanred ninehundred twenty were also something put their one nine hundred for fifty s right

so it's obvious to me that over time less and less of the statutes have been being put up

so is there a conversation about removing some of the ones that were put up in more recent history i would agree with that but the ones that have been there for a while they have really become staples of like say potential tourism too areas for them to be able to visit battle grounds and understand the struggles that went into these places i think it's very ba of

excuse me

you're not completing statues and battle rounds yeahyeh so o so where are these fucker statues some of put up at rce aovery much what i' trying to do is just make a fuckt point und me from my mother fucker stelch like respond we gt you we're going to give you ten more seconds and then we got a

these is a lot you put out there so wt to make sure people have time to respond

as particularly has

so you got ten more seconds to finish your thing wrap wrap your thing up

that's the reality re is hans i was watched the first fm f talking to be watching this one all you've done this entire time and time is to buy try to be some type of contrarian right double speaking in the fucking background to try to win the most fucking people to your fucking side the reality is your communist fucking scum

i see listen listen i can understand

it's not very typical among men to be this emotional but we are on a spectrum and he is the more emotional type so i'll give him that

so speaking about the subject matter and responding to his point

no i don't i'm not suggesting through a political organ or an institutional organ you're going to rind round up people and test for d n a i'm merely stating the obvious fact that organically speaking from the perspective of sociological

sociological perspective

organically these groups exist there are rural southerners

and there are black people in the black belt

who are descended this is their sociological and cultural origin

speaking generally there are of course exceptions

we got it in the south in the south where

where

all the states involved i'm going to get the fuck out of here do i'm not going to fuck in which is a quiz every single state in the black belt w you're going to say some dumb shit i'm going to there are black people living in the south who are descendants of slaves people they attribute they appear to attribute these statues a different meaning

simple as that

so what i'm trying to say

is that

if and i'm discerning that the essence of the dispute here why it's been able to be elevated to a culture war is because the democrats

and republicans are exploiting an authentic difference

in understanding the meaning of these statues so all i'm trying to say

as if we can allow an authentic cultural so on not saying an institution is going to do it i'm not saying it's going to be done politically i'm saying we should humble ourselves to the perspective that this is not a matter of having a universal opinion on this thing that these statues are grounded in real authentic

a realities for different peoples and we should treat it accordingly we should recognize that fact

recognizing that that is the first step because if you act like critically thinking fraud here and you're going to base your entire approach to this based on trying to get the most cliques and inflame the culture war but from the republican side you are going to end up inflaming and a division that cannot be overcome because you're assuming that the reason people have the positions they do on this question is because they're uninformed or they just

don't know much as you the truth is the reason the read the overheming reason why there's division over this

the actuals real solid basis of this is the fact that for real historical cultural and so on reasons different people are attributing these statues

for different reasons and with different meaning

that's a fact right no amount of education's going to change that no amount of being opinionated is going to change that no mant of listening to fuckin critically thinking fraud on the fuckin radio with his partisan bullshit is going to change that these are grounded in material objective realities of these people so you have to acknowledge that fact and this is the first step

too and i hope this is the goal of everyone here in good faith overcoming why this is a problem in the first place we're definitely here you to rave the to go to the list

yeah we're definitely definitelyre a good face the reality here is that the double speak in your fucking language is i beocting for like this is this opinion of like higher fucking like realization and everything else will also be like yeah i think we take them down

that's where you're fucking reality fuck no i i've been i have not been i have not been ambiguous my position has always been that personally speaking no no i'm notuble speaking my personal position is and i've been clear about this fact

that i do think i positi for a moment ok

c td v you're going to finish that we're going to have z

have a

ten to fiftey thatt response

then we're going to move on ok

yes so the reality here is hoz li

well i can appreciate like this this call to like an enlightened centrism the reality is that when you come out and you say oh well i think these thing should be removed it removes that entire thing is shows your bias it's not you trying to be getting people to be enlightened to history have them understand the past it only shows that you want to be able to remove the history so that it can be forgotten right so that's where the double speak comes in and need to understand the fuck a standard you dirty comi

o k just to be clear i have not disguised my personal view my personal position it's not the double speak i've put it out in the open

that i do believe

these statues

will

or should be taken down

but i have since i actually do believe this is the true position i don't feel like i have to impose that on people i think people can be

a persuaded

or be shown so that it's not a point of division now if i'm wrong

then my position is wrong in the first place and if i'm right then i'm right

i have no agenda double speak agenda

toh send city liberals to the south and uh

take down statutes i don't care about this bullshit and the

i know that it's being extended to things that have nothing to do with the confederacy too so i can see that

it's not my agenda to from forcefully erase

as statues or taked down statues my position is clear i do think the statues should be taken down i do think that it would be good

but

how is where my position is distinct simple as that i do not really agree with the view that

there should be this crusade

unmediated from the people actually involved

of educated college people coming down and tearing down statues for the media spectacle i just don't buy into it and it doesn't it's not very compelling to me and it's not very interesting to me

so simple as that

all this double speakshit you're talking about is complete bullshit my fucking position

is one hundred per cent on the surface i've been crystal clear about it you just have a very emotional tantrum because of my other politics that have nothing to do with this current discussion so get over it critically thinking veteran not every one has your politics not every one shares your overall idiology grow up be a man simple as that

don't be ma energy records of my life i got to get make sure that other people got time to talk

got to thurt over to isan then joe the kevin con

yeah i when i raised my hand we were on a very different part of this topic so i guess i'll bring it back to that um it feels like a lot of people here and i know c t v is definitely one of them because he was uh raised in

florida or at least lives in florida raised in theur

north carolina that's good enough

yeah when i was in school didn't really learn shit about the civil war not as much as i've learned since ive i've gonten outt the south

um but uh what joe lewis said earlier is absolutely true well uh ab lincoln was personally against slavery

the war for the south was definitely about slavery not so much for the north

in the south slavery was extremely important for their economy

um it's how they uh uh

like harvested the things that they produced while in the north they had factories and they had

m more they had advancements in other types of industry that didn't rely on slavery and so you saw sort of a

a split in ideology between the south and north between the north not needing or wanting slave slavery in most cases in the south

needing it and wanting it

the civil war was absolutely for many people about slavery

these people that we've idolized we've built statues of in the south were absolutely pro slavery and then i want to jump over what has said earlier about how you've got these city liberals from the north or whatever coming in

and uh telling people in the south in you know what they should think about these statues

most people in america that are progressive are liberals from the south not everybody is like a class reductionist lefty

who thinks that a

fucking that the these that the black people hate the city liberals coming in and telling them that the statues of confederate generals are bad ok most people in the black in the south that are black want these statues gone they don't want

to have these giant

looming confederate generals looking down on them they were built in order to intimidate black people during the civil rights movement that is their purpose that's why they're there if we want to learn about these figures we should learn about them in school we should learn about them in museums we should learn about the horrible things they did and we should also learn about the horrible things that people in the north did abraham lincoln did terrible shit as well so did the northern army

i don't know why fucking infred was bringing up these are like

city liberals or whatever but i never denied blis people oppose them just to be clear i never denied that you just didn't i get my point you're probably not smart enough that's ok

it felt like what you were saying was that you've got liberals like young liberals from the cities and you doliges coming and telling black people to the south

you do should be against the

the statute they're not telling black people they're just taking action without consulting the black people living there

do you think that if you go to protest in the south that are that's protesting the existence of the statues

that you're not going to see shit tons of black people from the south there

itpends on the proqestion i don't think you should engage with it so something that i think is incredibly important here because cv says a dumb shit and i have to just got to recognize this look man i'm going to be honest with you

like i mentioned in the last panel topic that people treat these things like games so i want to make something very clear i have family

in the black belt i have family in butler county i have family in dallas county i have family in crenshaw county i have family in montgomery county i have family in gadston county which is the majority black county in florida so i have individuals in here who we can easily track because i am also an african descendant of slavery so when we talk about the individuals who should come in here and have the conversation at the su

self determination about what should happen to these statues i'm included in this conversation but also as has recognized that there's also other people who have opinions and their own self determination in these areas so these are the communities that should have the consulting power to ask the question what should we do with these statues moving forward this is why we can't just wholesale take them all off the map i would love

to take them a off the map but unfortunately my state only has one individual statue and my state also made a dedicated effort to make sure that we have open dedicated conversations about slaver in the united states and then all the consequences of that

another thing that i think is incredibly im portant because somebody brought up i think it was um

scott who brought up christopher columbus we have to explicitly recognize that in the united states

identifiable groups are lifted up and discarded

for political gain

so you can sympathize

with the plight of the italians

but you have to recognize that their plight was platformed as a means

to platform and commemorate and celebrate

a genocide

individual an individual perpetuated genocide and indigenous folks and also and

and so many atrocities in what we now know as

north america is central and south

with that being said additionally we continue to do that with the japanese because again i want to make this as clear as i possibly can

racialized groups in the united states are lifted and discarded not just for the interests of the right but the interests of the left and we have to recognize this with every single thing that we defend when we talk about identifiable groups and especially white ethnic minorities

right joe you're absolutely right and like just quick twenty seconds

you're absolutely right would be a literal twenty seconds

h i will count no worries no worries so quick so show your rights right all peoples need a a voice in this conversation so when there are peoples in the south that have statues up this is where like you may only have one in new jersey but the people say are the ones to be side the sls and theff it isn't to be at the federal level

i don't know why you needed time to say a portion of my point

that was my point

it was e point that's why you pointed out that there was one statue in new jersey but no no no else again like if you're going to spend the time to

engage in what i'm saying you have to engage in what i'm saying so we'll move on from that r yeat this is where like one on one conversation later down a road probably much more beneficial because we don't spose reparations so you don't know rightor going descendants of s right i don't try to be conversation is one part of the reparations conversation and just i would be aing that region like so we can have that but i'm trying to be respectful of not only deals yours and everybody else's time here

so that we just move on from thatow

havever shore

oky thanks don

so a few points here

yeah so a few points here so i want to just address the question that uh was brought up by fabie and liberty scott who said well what about the

but

fabian

fibian hear me

yeah t and i said no i said i

i said i

butut i sort of wrote you down you can put your hand down

oh i didn't hear that part i apologize

geven

okay yeah yeah and so i was just uh responding to something that fabian had said earlier

basically

the question of well you know if we get rid of this other stuff

what was that supposed to mean like get rid of the columbus statues i would support getting rid of the columbus statues i mean you look into

just specifically even just look at hispanoli of the stuff that he directed and oversaw there

you go into any details about it you're going to get a t o s violation basically it was absolutely grotesque and brutal the idea that we're going to have statues commemorating him i've seen this i've seen this on twitter of people

uh one of my friends for example whose m

you know native american

uh racist using columbus as a symbol to try to you know intimidate him and what not it's uh

like columbus is basically like a symbol of that and and it's and it's not something that's worth having a statue

in a public area and nw you can move these things to museums i don't really see the hold up with moving them to museums

because they still serve the education purpose there

so if we're concerned about people forgetting their history will we specifically have

schools the museums

for that purpose on the point about

what has had mention he was saying how wll

basically

this is a he characterized it at one point as a pointless issue although he did say that he's got an opinion that they should eventually come down

he basically said that

well this is just it's kind of a pointless issue

to to ignore or to try to make people

uh not care about the the clauss distinctions going on i find that to be like you know classic plaus reductionism

that was pretty cringy we also saw this sort of thing brought up by i forget who it was but somebody mentioned how

it's a wedge issue that's done by democrats and republicans

to distract people from neoliberal fascism i find that conspiracy

to be insane because republicans and democrats don't really work together very well there's a lot of division in the united states the idea that

both of these parties are going to get together in a smoke food room and come up with social issues to

hit people against each other to what distract them from

we i guess goldman sachs or whatever you caln be against corporate corruption

and a lot of the issues in the economy

and also be against racism and i got the impression from oz basically that he wants to just give a pass to

to poor white racists as long as the

a as long as um he thinks that he can win them over to to become takees or something i mean it is funny because haz was talking about how he thinks that you need to persuade people about this

yet i've seen has one hyc say you know that hundred percent one hundred percent tanky one hundred percent steinist so this idea that he's all concerned about like persuading or whatever no he's got he's got people

your ignorance about history is not relevant to this discussion the fact of the matter is i barely brought up class calling it class reductionism

is the high point of your stupidity to brought up class and cat brought up class yeah yeah he brought up class i barely brought up class the thrust of my argument wasn't so much about class specifically

a you can extrapolate the reasons why i'm having the position that i do

all you want is not actually relevant to my point and

and kevin i'm not really saying that this is something no one should care about

i'm just insisting the bare minimum

that fucking canadians should just mind their business about this topic acuse it has nothing to do with you

is that is that a is that a bar enough that's clear enough like you live in canada

has nothing to do with you doesn't concern you

it's this is an issue for not only americans specifically but

is my argument is

the americans relevant to the controversy in the first place specifically

people descended from black people basically descended from slaves who lived there

and the rurle southerners this is their business its not your business you live in canada you have your own statues sort out your own business kevin

that we shouldn't care about the these and other cotries either your relative well would you want to debate about you want to debate about this topic or a thousand other ones because i mean i already wcked you in the debate we had yesterday so it seems like i'm trying to recover guys guys i have to beb to com

daughter

what

listen

i agree with the authoritarian communists ok

that theredserfect yourself c t like all right so the point the point being that we should be looking for reconciliation some of these issues are not

rational

uh they they're emotional they're they're historic they're symbolic to multiple people forro multiple

reasons

which is why

i think

the museum the museum solution is the solution to go for the publicly pressure people

to t because basically what you're doing

is you're taking them out of the public square

so you're not using them for their previous historical threats

to black people

you're throwing them in a museum and what a museum does is it gives you the ability to talk about the entire history of

you can talk about the civil war

you can talk about reconstruction

you can talk about the loss cause revisionist history

you can talk about when the statues were erected

and you can talk about the controversies when the statues were taken down

all at the same

time they serve their historical purpose they serve their educational purpose

while not being these fucking you know middle fingers

fourteen percent of our fuckin population

of the of the country

so this is where you know being centris is going to fuck and work out and i'm sorry it's true and then the only other thing that i wanted to address the entire

fuck and time

is that there's a fucking there's very clearly a morally superior thing here

just because the union butchered a bunch of fucking cities after playing pussyfoot with the confederacy

too fucking year

and just because out of frustrationd

eight yeah abraham abraham fuck and lincoln

basically said

hey

if i didn't have to nuke

half the fuck in country in order to enslave wrong then i at hold id see to be shut the fuck up you talk for forty percent of the goddamn panel if you want to argue with me argue with me next week

when we're in fucking man ken he's in a fucking hot tub youre fucking youust so excited now it the passion

all right shut the fuck up so i love you but shut the fuck up

so the the point being

oh god damn it you fucking made lose i got them point the fucking point being that there is a clear moral side to go here and this is the people

who were willing

to fight and die in order to abolish the institution of chattel slavery

this is not a hard choice this is not a hard moral choice

this is one of the simplest fucking historical calculations in all of moral theory

and witho a

the reality here is iating my allargre the jail m o military it was a pussy footing

i've been referenced like forur times saban you are the last one for the topic don't w

right now ok

all right yes so i th a couple of things

i've got to go point by point because i was referenced in all these christopher columbus right

again i already made the point of christopher columbus in

contrast to statues of bartolomon dedale coss right i already acknowledge that christopher columbus committed horrible atrocities

but what i'm saying is that you have to acknowledge that there are groups

that identify

with these things as part of their history and there are groups that identify as these things as venerating

ah periods of time where they were genocide or periods of time where they were treated horribly

re they faced serious state

oppression

right and you have to understand that both of these groups grow together and when you just start tearing down monuments

you just create

a problem of division amongst many allines in america and you have to do as has that you either have to convince the majority of people

to get rid of these things or you have to do as i'm saying which is get rid of some of them and put up other statues and other things that venerate other things

i

again i

sorry the idea of the neo liberal fascism working with with conservatives i think like you your understanding of u s politics and economics

has just to be like

so fucking below any under undert like like

like

you haven't en a s ty there

if you have a degree in economics

well then you're doing a terrible fucking job of representing that

right like

like even like even like basse fucking neo liberal economists like joseph stiglitz right

understand that the right wing and the left wing work together and that there are ways in which regulations are written by corporations tax structures are invented in certain ways and that when democrats and republicans agree on things it is often

not to the best interest of the american public and the and the idea that you say that wedge issues don't exist at a distraction

just shows a complete lack of understanding of political history i'm sorry

like

you' gota go back to your undergrad or something and take some fucking like

basic wayway

wedge issues are a thing but are they not on the were ditraction

no no but the idea that democrats and republicans get together and agree

to keep this thing going at some sright they hate each other like you're going to understand what it is like you know it's jot a simple a it's like you sound like you quote right

you don't knowed orn s carlin's wrong about a ton of stuff

but ok i'm trying to bring it down to your level right you don't need a conspiracy when like interests align

right the democrats and republicans like

yes they fucking you know not not you're not here not on you're not on the youit shoes these are real differentces man

real difference

you i

i have no idea how you're this ignorant on a economics and like political structure

anyway have i'm just going to move on you this is donn in krueger right now in his end

it's not done in krueger right like i mean you can say that but like you're not even acknowledging basic shit you learn in understod do you have a degree in economics theyb is right i an associates degree in economics i have a bachelor's degrand so'm so san i're going to ask about the land countl ok we have to wrap this up

yeah i mean like i'll leave it at that but like you know

on this idea of moral superiority

of one side versus the other again is not understanding all of the events that led up to the civil war

right and not understand what occurred during the civil war

right lincoln literally took anti war protesters

put them in prison and then dress them in confederate uniforms and gag them

and put them down the streets in boston and philadelphia

right so that they could be accosted by people

like he arrested journalists

he shut down printing presses he starved people to death in concentration camps

i'm sorry

p o w camps that where they were forced to work right

there are no good guys in this fucking war lincoln was a fucking racist

right like there's just no good guys in this conversation

and yet just like there is a lost cause movement

there is also a movement to obscure

the fact that the north had a lot of evil shit going

and i'll leave it at that

these st was better have that union was still better

will you say it's true therefore it's true there you go

wrap it it iup can't drive ot from it wrap

beat it up

we're going to go any

first we're going to start with c

all right well i think it's obvious why i decided to drop in from the raers and throw steil chaired all these mother fuckers because hos was going to sit here and just be like the communist cot that he is and just be like try to be the most agreeable person in the room to try to go the most favor from everybody right so like here we fucking go with that shit ig everybody is illuminated right to like his fucking level of thinking

right so from there right kinterpoints did make a lot of good points about the history right so counterpoints

uh looking forward to next week with a hot tub stream

but dude you got to go all the way back in history to get into all these things the reality here is folks

is that there's the one perspective and one side that's being being thrown at these things and that's the slave perspective and that is definitely his perspective that needs to be heard along with that though are a lot of the poor white folk that were not

doing anything more than defend in their homeland they were faced with the real choice of the union army is crossing in from the fucking shanandoah valley we got general jackson up there defending the fucking south am i going to fight this fucking battle

here at my fucking home all alone against a fucking army coming against me or my going to fucking come together with the fucking army this head up there to defend the fucking the south right which one am i going to do i think everybody can sympathize with the fact that well if faced with that fucking choice given the limited amount of technology of the day right specsally considering that we definitely have more availability of mass communication now that it has ever been in human history it doesn't seem like it's that far off for

people to go hey

yeah i'm going to go fight to defend the south so from there understanding those perspectives getting me able to get into those ideas is exactly what the statues which is the original topic that we're talking about

is what it's all about

and

the re and like what you really need to do is and be able to understand all sides of the argument no matter what it is

so

at the end of the day

if i did anything here i made everybody think and that right there was the most important thing and that i had to engage in like some higher caliber level of emotion that i can handle myself or maybe other people can't handle yes but you know what it brought forth a lot of truth and that's actually what matters to the day and with that being said mother fuckers see t v out

honor

anybody i thought i pretty much said what i need to say which is basically these things should go into a museum i don't think we should be sanitizing confederate history

that that's

do a machine

well

i would like to leave it up to the local communities to deal with what they are i don't want people running around being vigilantes against

art or whatever it is you would like to call it

whether it's venerating or just

spreading information

and

other than that there's

i mean i learned a lot here today too amongst other things which is very interesting

i'm

which is why i like having these conversations

so

yeah if anything i'd say at this point it's more

for me personally it's a little bit more contentious and confusing that it probably has been thus far

go ahead

since we have to move

up

good a thought over to fabian

i mean like i feel like by addressing all those things i'm good the only thing i would like to add is if you actually want to understand the civil war history

battle cry for freedom by james mcpherson great book

it's a bit of a distance read but it is inaudible and it is a pulizzer prize winning

peace

that goes into a lot of both sides

ok now i'm going to thort over to han

uh house but um np sorry yeah

yeah so it's clear from me that critically thinking veteran he has raised the fact that

maybe there is some ideological confusion and on his part fanaticism about my other political views

so just very want to quickly uh just in a second two seconds or whatever right

just to be clear why is it that i am taking such a conciliatory position when i am a

associated with the extreme left wing in america

all i can say is that

i don't think the american left

has given genuine expression to

the marxism leninism at least as i understand it from a global context

and the second thing is that

as a communist

that to my understanding

to the aim

a forour communists is to give

expression to the authentic interests and realities of the people

and not our idiological beliefs and prejudices but really the people as they are

this is the wisdom i've learned from historical experience you can agree or disagree with that narrative but this is just how i understand it so

i'm not trying to pander people i'm not trying to just

win over as many people as possible for its own sake it is consistent with a

my ideology and deeper views ah

if you are interested in learning more about those maybe have an open mind otherwise let's just focus on the topic

stop getting distracted by this ideological stuff because it's not really important it's not essential to

the actual content of the topic at hand so this is all i want to see

th

jangles

i

that statute

that

i

now

i i did uh

something that i can kind of came to realize over the course of the this topic on the panel is that

and i'll admit this forthright my history

i got i

that my degree is in

biomeic

nothing to do with history i'm not going to claim

pretend i know

ojackion about history

and i'm really upset that see t v left because i wanted to ask him which which statues

that i should go to to learn this history

in but he's not here to answer that so

guess i can ask him which statues i should visit to learn that history now i was going to ask

it it it's not fair to ask fabian because i don't think he would uh

agree with

like statute teach history

but then he wouldn't recommended a book instead of a statue so i think i think my original point the statutes don't

history has been

you know

confirmed

it over

and over the

so

yeah

next up

ok numb thointed over to

los

yeah it it was it's interesting to me you on the previous topic we talked about um

challenging the ideas of dissenting opinions especially the challenging of dog whistles right so i kind of want to a dress that

portion of my closing a few other things

it's strange to me how even the face of

the idea of white erasure and the dog whistle of white erasure

and slave apologia

that those in the previous topic

we're opening willing to have a conversation about

challenging these ideas outright and that they're

that we ought to challenge in the marketplace ideas and prove that the idea is not only stupid but in efficient and a bunch of

other things i don't think that bar was necessarily crossed in the real time test

of the very words that some individuals argued

with that being said additionally i

c t v said a lot of things that were dog whistles and they just weren't challenged for those of you were not

sort of catching what i'm throwing here so i'll throw it a little bit more direct

and i just want to make sure that

not just this panel but the chats and those who are watching recognize

that

whether you think it's direct or indirect

he was dog whistling towards the idea of

of white erasure and slave apology

we're moving forward

something that i think is incredibly important to recognize

america has never had a conscious and dedicated effort

to care about black issues and black people

so when we try to

have sort of policy prescriptions and solutions to these issues

this is why

many members of the black community and even for example

march's leninists also agree on this

that the policies that are brought forth

in the marketplace of ideas in terms of

solving these issues are incredibly insufficient and incredibly liberal

and i understand it upsets liberals that

their their idea for like

they want to be the ones that are the one that are the ins of a just society

right it's a thing they hear in little spaces a lot but in reality they don't care about black people they don't care about black issues

so when they even have the policy prescriptions

to try to help blacy people

that's why they're always incredibly insufficient and

very vapid

the final thing i'll say here because going to allude into the founding father's conversation probably is again we need to keep on the forefront

that

the united states of america doesn't care about black people answer cross

a vast majority of mainstream ideological lines i would say

all mainstream ideological lines and then that also manifests down

into different sects of ideology now i think the closest individuals who acknowledge

the liberation of black people i would argue a marxis lenist

and i think that's something we have to recognize and i don't

really and this might get me in trouble for those of you who hear me talk and seee and cope

i don't think it's necessarily productive to

tried to straw man m ls when they're making

very good points in terms of like righting the wrongs that this country did and certain pasts move forward

so i want to make sure like i want to thank cause directly on that at i do appreciate that because this conversation was in

credibly intolerable

so i jus want to make sure that it's recognized

seven

yeah thanks do

so just that close here

h these these monuments essentially have no place on public lands

if you've got private property and you want to have you know a monument or something whatever

if these belonging the museum and so far as they serve as an educational purpose or a reminder of history

a museum is a great place for them on public lands

that they serve to intimidate

a those who were oppressed by the confederacy

and you cannot just pretend all what was about states rights and ignore slavery it was about states rights to own slaves

and an and basically all this just amounts to a cope that

the civil war was lost the union prevailed

and i found some of the comments tonight about how oh well

both sides were bad both sides did bad things

i mean you can make that argument about world war two as well and that's an obvious example of a false equivocation there doesn't mean that one sides perfect

but if you can't tell that the union

was better than the confederacy then there's a problem there and i'm down to debate anybody on that a later date but

uh just to kind of close up my closing remarks here

it came up a couple times about the fact that i'm canadian and therefore how can i have an opinion about this i find it interesting for two reasons the first is that

i was invited on here

uh by dylan and danabo so i mean obviously people want to hear what i have to say about this and two

uh obviously i'm going to talk about i'm not just going to stay silent for the whole period and to

i'm not a uh relativist i'm not somebody who just says oh well that's in a different arbitrary set of orders so therefore

i can't be opposed to symbols of slavery there

i'm somebody who supported intervention against gaddhafi because he basically ran the country as a slave plantation

i'm against the taliban and they run afghanistan basically under slavery especially if you're a woman

i'm actually against slavery in every corner of the world and yet i'm against that in the united states as well and i do not like

the idea of venerating

and monuments to some of the like the most egregious figures

in american history who let's be real if they had it their way

there would still be tens of millions of people that would be living in chains right now in the united states so thank you

ok and now we're going to talt over to zander hall

hey dylan really quick i'm curious did you bring c t v on hereor did he just like jump in

ctv is a force of nature i w'll comment no further

it

did you us bring them in to do that it we were just following orders thing for the confederate soldiers just for like i dora bring it

or did he like to jump in

he jumped in on his own reguard and i was like well you know what why not

hey

why is he able to do that

the c t

conservative affirmative action is your answer sandra all

yeah yeah it is i guess all i have to say is there was a lot of ed pol brought up in this discussion and it feels like it was really counterproductive i feel like um

making arguments about where people come from or what race they are when it comes to an ideological discussion such as this is always going to end up being

just the the worst thing you can possibly fucking do

um it doesn't lead to anything productive it just leads to arguments about well you can't say this because you're white or you're canadian or you're black or whatever

um can let's just let's just cut down on the d pole please before i

roadblocks myself

in a video game

i got

we going to move on to the last topic of the night the last topic tonight is about

the founding

father's

and so

what exactly we should how should we remember the fathing fathers

how should we portray the founding father

somewhat attached to the conversation we just had a little dis

go

so i'll just slow around the topic do the bottom left ten corner this time with joe leouis

yeah i actually want to um make a

plea for support of identity politics i feel that

identity politics in the united states and the current mainstream discourse is incredibly vapid and just kind of turned into a very liberal position

and a very liberal talking point so i want to make it very clear that we have compounding identities

that

influence how we interact with different structures of power

whether that be political social

and economic and these compounding identities

are how individuals

are influenced

by their politic it's how some individuals and determine their politic actually wholesale

and that's something that we do all the time and we acknowledge and respect it's the same reason why

people were very excited to

cheer for barack obama but it's also the same time black individuals understand as well as and i agree with a lot of individuals on this take that obama is a fucking war criminal

with that being said i want to move on from that because

when we're talking about

i'mr on the founding fathers right where

if we recognize that

the founding of this country was based on a certain group of individuals and not only

the protection and preservation of individuals that look like

those who made these documents

the their families their friends their loved ones

it's very likely that entire groups of people

whether that be that they live live there before they arrived

four

that they were brought on here on ships

four

the sheer and direct purpose for labor

we got to recognize that this country

was built upon a lie and excluded a lot of people within that lie and

i really hope that we can acknowledge

that the founding of the united states was built on a lie

and if that is not the

the surface that we

talk about

when we're talking about the founding fathers then this conversation is going to be incredibly insufficient so again

my position on this is that

the founding fathers

perpetuated o li preserved o li

and

now in twenty twenty one we are seeing the consequences of that lie and even in the face of the consequences that lie we see that the right and the left whether that be democrats liberals

republicans all these mainstream individuals that are in positions of power

they will preserve the lie perpetuate the lie but then do it for the sake of others wither that be on the left thinking that they're the more morally just part of the political process or the right who just don't want to acknowledge anybody

and just themselves

um so that's kind of my stance on it

if we can't say that the founding fathers perpetuated a live then we're not going to have a good conversation tonight

ok kevin gssik

yeah thinks done

'll try to keep this a little bit short basically the founding fathers all together the

i

yeah

by modern standards they amount to fairly problematic figures many of them core said

as slaves

obviously but

one thing that actually two things that they deserve a lot of credit for is you know they establish basically

a state that existed

that that liberated itself from the monarchy

from

have british dominion over north america basically and they set up

a constitution that allowed itself and recognized for the fact that

that they were imperfect and that even if you know

they they were firm in certainstances they recognize that future generations could

look back on and say oh that was yiks and laid down the framework to have

a very successful constitution like in the united states which as survived all this time

and uh lay down the amendments process and everything so that you can reform in a better direction

i do think that

you know when we're talking about veneration with the founding fathers you can look at them as people that fought against the tyranny of the monarchy

but you can also look at their personal lives

personal lives rather

and especially those that own slaves and say yeah well you know

they did some good things

some of them did more good things than others

and but then you know slavery and whatnot yeah that was an address but

you know

it was for its time still

progressive relative to the era it just by no means was anywhere near

what you would hope to have

but again that the self perfecting element of it is something that

does

and deserve degree of credit so thank you

next is going to be zander hall

yeah so when it comes to idolizing and sort of looking up to these founding father figures i think it's extremely cringy i don't i'm not like a big fan of looking back into history and sort of like idolizing any figure if we look at like any of the things these people believe or said or did or whatever you're going to find tons of

really scandalous shit

um i think it's super weird that we like look back at these figures and we sort of put them up on pedestals like they're gods like they're greater than normal men

um it's just something i find extremely cringy

i think like a good comparison of this is there was this like

comedian in the u k that everybody really liked and then it came out he was a pedophile and they took they had a ton of monuments this person up all over the u k apparently he was a big like

household name

and when that came out that stopped people took down those those sort of like a

um acknowledgments and what not he stopped being this big household name that people looked back on after his death as being this

legendary figure i think we should take a very similar movement to that i just meink wered to idolize people that have been lar in the past even if they we can learn about them and we can you know see what they did good and bad and whatnot but i think like they putting a on the moorn putting them up on this gob born thank you super dumb

ok no'w going to thut over to jangle

so i don't think i disagree with anything that

want

has said so far but i might have a

but are i going to go before you i going to take the citrus take fuck you

ok

so yeah there

i think there's a lot of good conversation be had like these were not these like god's

i think weh you have this conversation like i want to talk really fast i we just like destiny i want to be like

yeah like basically were we're going to talk ore now is like

listen i want have a really nance conversation like the founding the fathers and there findings a lot of flaws

lot of things wrong that ma like based on

lot of finding funs like really think was wrong

what i'm trying to say is that

you know i co get understand like historal contaxts and i get things like

this the perpetuation of these systems the institutions is like

if you really understand you really understanding i have to copy destiny's everything i'm not even originally

i don't ean original bone my body

at all you know

but i mem i really think like the deviining bathers

reallys i

than basically like

the founder father is go

got to mak s are these a goas and the founding fathers

really is what i'm understanding was in

like the opinion of like the perpetuation of all these systems sytemic racism the sixty nine he broadsway new york times and like you're not really informed you don't know anything about it like

and he didn't really want to like this iss youe of the fothing gothers like don't e real understand like anything was based on on going

left like all

all right

ather

toether

yeat they were homophobica

i guess fucking you can't like anyone for

they were

too far back right

but that doesn't but

the more important thing for me is

like

the way that we venerate them it condenses american history and greatness down to like these individual

message not

it is a documented fact that historians like

have condensed a lot of stories condensed a lot of the american movements especially the american founding

into these like the founding fathers

this

hen is individuals and changes

who's the founding father

like there's a reason i picked mup beer tonight samuel adams

gets a lot of credit for like bost

and like all the things he didn't boss like he was the instigator of everything that happened in boston n he

but there was a

turns outs a bunch of people who actually wyvou there's a bunch of people

who actually i believe in the things of the founding fathers did and it condensed that and to give credit

to a bunch of like individuals to me that's that's

oo right

are you

of him

answ

ugly

i been verli was a sex and race was but is what i

never say like oh no these gred i go do's never a doubt i do

a yes

ber

i think that that's

that's what i'm'm talking about

necessarily the most concerned is still talk

he's still talking

the most right

ok now it's going to be ho

um okay so

this is a kind of complicated issue and i want to kind of isolate what is the grain of truth

ah from the i think there's a grain of truth being used by the mainstream elements

ah of the democrats and liberals and leftists

that they're exploiting for what i would call nefarious ends so basically here's what i would say

it is very true

that

the notion that the american republic was founding as a truly universal republic for all

people all men are born equal and so on

obviously it's not true it represented the interests of a specific type of group

mm

so that's very much clear from history right

but

here's some important thing i'll say

i still think there is such a thing as a

a objective significance of america

and the american idea as opposed to the

the british empire

which many

revolutionary and progressive and so on

movements had had to take for granted as a premise in the twentieth century the actors may have been hypocritical in regards to the full consequences and extent of this idea

but im

that doesn't change the fact that

the

founding fathers are the founding fathers of what we call the united states the american states

that it's very clear for example that

ah slaves and descendants of slaves never were able to ever get to a point of actually being

equal

ah

or even just stakeholders in the united states as a project the chance for this was

the forty acres in a mule which because land ownership is a premise of being able to be a part of a political community of poliicy

right this was at uh

this promise was

was went back upon it was

well how should i put it

it was violated basically

a and since then there have been genuine authentic aspirations among black peoples and among other groups indigenous people and so on

to have a

authentic

a national self determination their own sense of

polity and national self determination

i think the way to reconcile this issue is to recognize

this need and demand for national self determination

while also recognizing that there is an american state

and

a the we have to be very careful here right

if

the united states ceases to be and

the first step for this is obviously the elimination of the founding symbols and the founding fathers

if this ceases to be what's going to replace it are we going to return to feudalism are we going to return to techno feudalism the british empire like

what how will this be negotiated who is going to be consulted it's really an opportunity for

tech elites and other interests to circumvent

um

circumvent the kind of constitution all these kind of things

that were in place after a

seventeen seventy six so one has to be very careful here despite all moral perspectives on the question

about what's really going on when it comes to this elimination of of

america's founding history or the symbols thereof

now a final thing i will say is that

of course the founding fathers

owned slaves and represented the interests of a particular class and her particular group and so on and so on

what

i don't believe this was their innovation

these things had preceded them

actually

under the british empire

and the sixty nineteen project claims that the british empire was on its way to abolishing slavery in the colonies

but we know later that we have no reason to believe that because it was the british empire that was propping up the confederacy so clearly there was a fundamental dependency there

um

that many commenters pointed out

ah was

from the very start there was a tension between

the american idea or the american project

and the institution of slavery

a there was an inner tension which was not fully resolved but

revealed during the civil war and the events surrounding the civil war when the british empire in france and so on supported the confederacy against the union

so we have to evaluate the significance of the founding fathers not based on the standards of today

but based on what was their unique contribution to history what did they actually accomplish and to me

the significance of the founding fathers as far as what they accomplished is a

the american republic republic that is by the people for the people and of the people

has america as a project i rely lived up to this idea ideal no

and' it's not clear to me that it has

but i still think i

it's still meaningful and it's still real foundation of the

a state

the continuity of the american state

that's all

babian

yeah i you know i'm pleasantly surprised the marxist ens and i apparently are on the same side on almost all these issues but

you know i

i would almost in many ways reiterate what what has is said but i think another thing that we can maybe look at is understanding the cultural context of their times

and looking at it today and i think a great example that is thomas jefferson right

thomas jefferson owned slaves

he very likely procreated with slaves right

which is you know a form of rape

right

he

did horrible terrible things right

but at the same time

i think you a great

quote i had a professor say once was

you know

good men are a product of their time and great men rise above that

and i think you see that even in thomas jefferson right thomas jefferson

was very afraid to quote john locke

the second treatise on government

when drafting the declaration of independence and

he didn't say life liberty and property

which is what he originally wanted to write

and said he changed it to life liberty in the pursuit of happiness

because he was worried that southern slaveholders

would use the idea of property as a means to maintaining a slave empire

he also in eighteen zero seven you know made sure

that the act prohibiting

prohibiting the importation of slaves was passed right

because you have and that was to be

you know to go in effect in eighteen o nine

because of the ratification of the constitution in seventeen eighty nine it was protected for twenty years

that the transatlantic slave trade couldn't be

abolished and yet he made sure during his own presidency

that right at eighteen o nine when that when that was no longer protected

that he could get rid of the transatlantic slave trade

right so you see these things you go wow they're so paradoxical

and i think you do have to look at these people in the product of their time and

and what they accomplished in terms of liberalism and terms of using the promises of enlightenment thinkers

and bringing it forward into a government

is it is extremely important n obviously i'm an i'm an anarcho capitalist i don't believe in a state

right

but i mean i still have to look at them in their time and

many of their libertarian ideas and philosophies and

the minerkist you know kind of constitution that they created and set forth for us

and in a lot of ways that has been bandoned in a lot of those promises to people

you know obviously only extended to white men that were property owners right

but i mean at the same time we do have to look at the cultural context and see what they achieved

getting rid of monarchistic systems right

and it's not until world war one

that you see the ideology

of that with woodrow wilson entering you know entering the war

and

you seeing world war one becoming kind of an ideological war between monarchies and

constitutional monarchies with america there and the idea of constitutions and parliaments

so i think that's a really important thing that we should

we should understand is that we do need to look at them in context but also know that these were great men and great thinkers

and to say that like oh just looking at their ideas is like

oh these guys are backwards

because of the product of their time

and not looking at some of the genious writings of thomas jefferson and madison and monroe and hamilton and franklin

would be would do a great disservice

in increasing the poverty of philosophy and education that we have in america

on because there's a lot of good stuff there

but we also need to make sure we frame it in the context of the time

ok next is going to be demon machine

ben connor

well thank you fabian for taking most of my points

asked

i was going to bring up the

part about life liberty and

suit of

property versus

happiness

cetera

that was pretty frustrating

but

the thing that

i would have to say is if you just want to take a smooth brain take of it is

these dudes took on a fucking eumpire

and they did have some help with the french and obviously various other in even native american tribes and things like that

uh

but i also want to give a little credit to something i learned this past

week

when i was on vacation in charleston where

lot of

that should happen where

the te where the tea party revolution

which happened all along the east coast

it happened here

in the dates wise

it actually happened in charleston first wheen they started protesting the t

tariffs and things like that

and then it happened a few days later in boston

where they dumped it into the fucking ocean

and so it was

a

a very large

thing that was happening that they were

working with lack of communication

and they led a revolution

that succeeded against the largest navy that it existed up until that point

so

mean there is some credit where they got some shit done

also

very much

like a lot of they're thinking of how to go forward to

let the document that they wrote

also kind of be able to be molded with the times as it goes on to where it's not just stuck in seven hundred seventy six when they originally wrote it

etcetera

so i

i don't want to just tear them down to be like we should get rid of them i think that would be stupid because you're throwing away a lot of

really interesting

knowledge

with that

so

that that's pretty much it

connor

yeah

we have

quite a bit of contention

so i'm happy again to be aligned with an authoritarian communist

pissing me off but

you know that's great

so what did the founding fathers actually accomplish

the american republic

yeah

has it lived up to its ideals

now

no society lives up to its ideals that's why they're called

fucking ideals

they are things to be striven for they are virtues

principle

if you if you look at historically back at any society look at the roman republic

was it perfect

fuck no

was greek democracy perfect no of course not it doesn't matter what geographic locale y what people you go to

there's going to be a spouse principles and there's going to be failures of those s spouse

schols and they're going to be dealing with

the material conditions that they're surrounded by

people don't just fucking impose twentieth century or twenty first century morality into the fucking you know nineteenth or eighteenth century as fucking perfect like emotional and fucking moral avatars

bush

and then on top of that so one of the things that was pointed out

was thomas jefferson

intentionally sabotaging the institution of slavery

they basically kew

that if they tried to go after it wholesale they wouldn't be able to achieve the revolution

so they made a compromise

and as a result

they held on to something that was nefarious

and as a result

people

who

founded a lie

her who perpetuated a lie

sent two hundred thousand

of their countrymen

to kill another two hundred thousand of their countrymen

to fulfill

this lie

if you look at the morals and virtues of american history if you look at the twentieth century as a fucking hole you need to be a cynical fuck and bastard

and say it's all bullshit

or you can say that these are virtues

and principles that we haven't lived up to that we're trying to live up to and that we fucked up the entire time

in the fact that like

the the fact that

what the insistence is that we're going to have a contention what your god damn right we're going to a contention

you want to turn around and you want to tell american kids

their entire fucking country their entire perpetual every s the civil war world war two world war one it's all based on a fuck and like at the fuck out of

i'm not going to tell my kid that shit and i'm not going to let that be the fucking education of my god damned country are you fucking kidding me

especially when there's a whole bunch of contradictory fucking evidence that points in the exact opposite direction i' have no idea

what the like i get why it would be fucking person

but i think you're completely ignoring

any evidence to the contrary of your position

so that lie meant many different things to many different people and again

hundreds of thousands of people have died in order to fulfill that quote unquote law sent finally

ight have thank youz appreciate you come back brezy thank you

i think xander hall said that

m

but these are great men by definition

they are people

who have been

vested

with power and opportunity

and this is the thing if you look at people obviously the products of their fucking time

but by definition when you the

plenty of people

who squandered

power in wealth and opportunity

we hold these people

to historical criticism

because they didn't use their power

in a way that benefited them during that time

but when you look at people who achieve something with their power and their opportunity and it become something else

then you do lot those people because they exercise virtue in ways that are risky

as brought up by demon machine as brought up by fabian

that these weren't some random like philosopher duchbags

who came up with fucking ideas and then implemented them in a vacuum they were

fighting the world's most powerful empire at that time and beat it

that's fucking insane

so to act like there're stakless a mooral fucking virtueless doduchebag

it's bullshit

so jangles going to go after you a little bit

who cares what the founding fathers have to say there are a bunch of dead douche bags

what do they know about fucking political structures from two hundred years ago

these were students of history

these were people who specifically studied

the roman republic in greek democracy

looked at all of the failures of power

and said how do we create a social institution that can perpetuate that is simultaneously

rigid enough

to give a society a structural framework on which to base itself

but

flexible enough

that it can perpetuate itself

thousands of years into the future as long as people wield power

in an appropriate way

those are important questions that have been failed throughout history

for fucking millenniam

and we are literally the oldest fucking democracy on the planet

because these people asked the right questions at the right time

so

did

the fucking thing that bugs the shit out of me

these things are not without consequences

they have not occurred within a moral fuck and vacuum

they were difficult to fucking implement

they involved blood in fucking treasure and sacrifice

and guess what

when you try to impose your fucking ideals on society you're going to find out that it's going to demand a lot more of you than just fucking philosophiz in a goddamn room with nine fucking assle

you

ok

for everybody in shop

i would like

say that

i've been pushing my youtube a lot lately

if you go to dlon burns t v on you tube and subscribe it really appreciate it

and these shows take time and effort to produce and any subs doone knows anything when to go towards the channel

i appreciate

the last topic of the night

it is open for discussion

so some i want to jump in of that indor bring up

real quick is the fact that

also something else that the founding bathers did was they put a lot on the fucking line

if they lost they were all like

you

end of story

like

they wouldn't have been questions asked they would have been hung

so

it wasn't like they were going to do this and if it didn't work out they were just going to go home and

go to their farm

but we geting and understand that the very people they enslaved

would have been hung killed

raped regardless of their outcome

i think it's something we ought to recognize at the same time if we are going to appease to connterpoints

or sorry catch jesus christ i'm sorry ter to talk about you talking about slave rebels

like no i'm speaking i'm let me let me finish the let me finish the point all the way like we recognize

that the stakes were high for these individuals

creating something separate and trying and advocating in

pushing towards our own self determination we can also recognize at the same time

there very tools that they use

which were people

never achieved that self determination so in what we're talking about contradictions

there's there's one right there that it's a very easy thing which if you

i'm not again i'm not saying like i'm saying if you in the context of people who might be listening like if you were to take a history course or any history course there's sort of conver conversation about those contradictions like how like

why is it that there's a group of people advocating for their own self determination while simultaneously at the same time taking that self determination from others and then it doesn't matter what the stakes were for africans

they were it didn't matter if the if the goals were met or lost they were still going to be dehumanized brutalized no different than the indigenous people for the land that they stole from and then what sucks about that what sucks right is when we

try to have those complicated conversations about the very contradictions that exist in the united states of america what we now know is the united states there is a movement that wants to push back and say we can we cannot talk about these things these things are in the past but then there's a simultaneous recognition or contradiction that we ought to make sure we recognize and understand the full complication of the founding fathers

ok

so what i would like to answer i would just like to answer your question flat out even though i already know you know the answer because i want to basically say for the audience

right

right the reason why this contradiction contradiction exists

is because of religious

and pseudoscientific

racist philosophy

that people believed at the time

that black people were a subjenre of human beings that they weren't real human beings or alternatively

they were the tribe of

cam

that was punished by god

in therefore it was morally acceptable to enslave them

because basically they had committed some grievous sin against yah

right these are the religious and pseudo scientific justifications that people told themselves

in order to dehumanize black folks

and keep them out of this great idea

the

i

i don't have a problem with talking about those kinds of things

and on top of that

i think we we have to reckon with those things

because if we don't

then basically what's happening is it's like oh you know all the fucking conservatives get on their hands and knees and metaphorically blow the founding fathers without acknowledging any of their fuck and sins

which is a fucking problem because obviously we can talk about all this nefarious bullshit that was going on at the time

but then my problem with kind of like

let's let's just face it liy is a very strong word

ok sure

the the problem that i'm like

this really knee jerky defensive about

is because i think i know

two hundred thousand union soldiers

died

killing

another two hundred thousand confederate soldiers

in the name of sure

maintaining the union

but ultimately

with the fucking goal

of abolishing slavery within the united states

so i'm not comfortable

saying that they died for a lie

it's you could say that they died for an incomplete project

you could say that they died for values and ideals that we haven't lived up to even to this day

i'm comfortable saying that

i am not saying i'm not comfortable saying that they died for a livee

oh sure but we can we can recognize however right so

again and we're talking about stakes and conversations right like

if we look historically

the united states is not as i mentioned earlier the united states

is not designed

for black people

period

and this is historically reinforced

it is socially reinforced economically reinforced

and politically reinforced and then what happens is

when

specifically black people black radicals black nationalists

argue these things

i don't think it's

it' is fair

or

representative of the argument to start arguing the semantics of potential charge language

because oppressed people

will have charged language

about the analysis of the phenomenon

and that can be something that you can disagree upon

but i don't think that actually engages fully in the conversation about what do we do to make sure that we don't fall into those same traps

in in the first place you know what i'm saying so like

as an example right if we understand that

civil rights in the united states is in jeopardy and has always been in jeopardy

and it's a weapon that the right uses to try to strip

the rights of people we've got to start approaching those problems in some type of pragmatic way but even in the face of that in the face of that pragmatism there's still a fight of like well this is too far

or or maybe this isn't like like

what we ought to do we should do do this instead and like the core of my argument

um when it comes to

righting the wrongs of or putting us on a better path is we have to

have the faces

and stories and perspectives and history of oppressed people in the united states in the forefront alongside all those other i don't think you disagree with this alongside the other conversations that we have of things like the founding fathers and the constitution but even that very statement that i just said is going to make people within

and somebodies community right now on this panel start getting very uncomfortable and thats

my community to

so so i know i know other people want to talk so i'll try to be really quick because i know we're running out of time to

so basically what i would say is especially to my audience because i know people are getting uncomfortable already

is

this is what i want to work on with joe specific

is when joe says

hey i think that this country was built on a fucking lie i think it's bullshit i think that a bunch of fucking privileged ask toh bags

started a war for their own fucking benefit and they lied to a bunch of mother fuckers in order to fight that war and they didn't actually understand or respect the universal rights of human beings and they used pseudo scientific and religious reasons in order to dispossess people

of their human rights

i don't want to jump down your fuck and throat and call you a piece of shit that's my instanct

h but basically what i would rather say is

you and i have a fucking problem

we agree that theres a problem

how do we solve that problem

and that's a really fucking hard thing to do it's a really tough conversation we can do it another time and i don't want to monopolize time so i'll just leave it there

we yeah i think maybe to like kind of see how you do is going to be jangles see joe's perspective i think it's fair to say please correct me if i'm

saying the wrong thing

from a black perspective

in america

it is a lie

from that perspective i thk

think about it right

the founding mythology mythology doesn't mean it's wrong it' just like the founding idea of country

ah liberty pursuit of happiness

like what do these words mean for american black people they mean nothing

they mean is f if it's addressed to them and they are supposed to be included

in the we the people and the for the people by the people of the people

then from their perspective i could see why it is a lie of course from their perspective it's a com it's bullshit it's cynical it doesn't mean anything for them because

out

they have never been allowed to have a state

in this country again in the form of a

land ownership so ideas

the cannot assert their relevance

a solely on the terms of ideas themselves they have to assert their relevance in terms of people's way of life in terms of how they

feed themselves support themselves and this is specifically in the form of having

some kind of property some kind of land

and black peoples in america were promised forty acres in a mule after the civil war because even

lincoln and the republicans and the abolitionists understood

that

if we are going to make black people part of the union

really part of this union

they have to be given land they you know you can't leave them with nothing

h

but this this was not the

honored and he terms were not honored so to your mes nott not to cut you off like something that i think is also true at the same time is that there's a contradiction itself

because you'll have right the right wing wll say well we gave you land likek and then you think like ok what does gave you land mean

by giving

land that you're leasing out to former slaves

to continue the work that they were doing

because you recognize they wouldn't be able to exist in society otherwise is a lion of itself and then even than that like there's a way that maybe you could pragmatically make that a fair and just system but even in that there was still like the idea of like ok who controls the land that you now

cultivate the very person that enslaved you

yeah yeah they were forced for the sharecropper system to this is my understanding to work on this land and basically there was a continuity of their relations under slavery

so we who are not the black people we should understand why black people believe that it is a lie

but where i will give my two cents

is when this is extended when we start having liberals basically

using the authentic sentiments of american black people

to push their specific agenda upon the working people as a whole

and this is where i see red flags

i think can i ask one more follow up before you you close so

do you think that they're like

do you think liberalism might be the reason why

connor again i'm going to put a lot of to put a lot of maybe a lt on the table here unintentionally like

i feel like

liberalism at its core

is used almost as a weapon to sort of rile up individuals like connor born or connor who hear that statement or like it's a lie because i don't think that like

when i say it's sounds kind of god it sounds kind of weird but like when i say it and then somebody who identifies as a liberal say i don't think we're arguing in the same plane of consciousness i think what i would say not to just speak for him but what i would say that is that

liberal sorry con yeat liberalism has a blind spot it's not because people are morally bad or something it just has a blind spot

which is liberalism does not acknowledge fundamental differences between people

by fundamental i don't mean like racial realism or anything like that

i mean people have different history they have different culture and different experience

a

we are not just all the universal subject of the state

so

is i could see why they

i could see from the liberal's perspective why someone would be coming from there but overall

everything i said despite all the things i said i still think

that

america still even if it is allied

rightfully so from the perspective a black people

america still does have a meaning

for the

the american people right

so to me

i don't see the issue of the

instead of re evaluating the significance of the founding fathers

i think it is more productive

that

a

the specific needs of american black people for self determination and so on and so on

should be more brought to the table instead of just rewriting the

yeah can i can i address this because i was beally anyone else before

before i got to throw it over to jangles and fabian who

raised and kind of been waiting very

howre you maan

ck in it's

all right i wan't feel bad now

connard do you remember the issue you have with me like

like twenty minutes ago

sure

h was it you said a bunch of old fogy dumb ass white people don't know shit about fuck

i almost verbat im that year

yeah it's almost forbidden that so there wasn't to say that like

so i feel like this that misinterpreted my critique of that like what i'm saying is like when people invoke the founding fathers it's not just like

people invoke the founding fathers to

push

current

modern day

political goals

and that's dull

if you do that if you're a lefty a wrighty i don't care who you are you're very very stupid and you should stop doing that because you're inventing a fictitious

person to do that

uh like uh you said so uh car you said okay uh they uh

the have this

they created this like a a democracy as long as la

lasting democracy in the world

all that stuff is true

but they did it two hundred fifty years ago

ok if they were to to

be transplanted today to be like what the fucker women doing voting are there far there fucking queers here no this is people different colorsro they would absolutely do that and it's not because they're evil it's because they're from two hundred and fifty years ago anything you say that what they would do today

anything

is going to be a fiction and that you guys here when i said fundamental differences this guy's eyes lit up

he's like com

are you talking about

biological races

did you guys see that shit this dude is literally a fuck in the

he's probably a former all right guy and he's projecting on to me

his own pathologies and his own fuck and sick deranged

world views

this is literally a cancele called for leftist

who has never had an original thought on their fuck in life

and nobody is trying to police me on the terms of their own fuck in the

stupid as fuck and world view

like i give a shit about anything they ever have to say trying to fuck and police w do you mean fundamental differences

well what do you fucking think i mean dude

there's no such thing as good faith

you think i'm tempted to be a neo nazy like you are you're probably tempted to be all right i'm not fucking tempted to be that

you know

love of god

everything

jus going

like he live these lefties always act like we all are secretly tempted to be like right wing

and or like far right and neo nazi whatever it's like so fucking weird you know

it's almost like he's he's like

it's almost like sex like you know you're not supposed to talk about sex in public

i feel like leftis are in private neo nazis but they're just like oh you're not supposed to mention that in public

you know

so fucked up

the racial superiority idea and how deeply entrenched it is

and i think you see this best with benjamin franklin because

benjamin franklin famously visited a an all black school in new jersey right

and because of his experience there

publicly stated that he

changed his opinion

on the inferiority of black people

and their ability to learn right

so you have to understand that these founders they lived in a time where they quite literally believe

that black people did not have the same capacity of thought

reason or

of you know ability to learn certain things and yet you knowres a wre change

well no i'm addressing counterpoints idea that when he i'm just rebuffing you know buffing it up if you will

to address kind of the more general conversation

i think one of the things that we're missing here is a psychological understanding of how

especially conservatives and nationalism plays into

the portions of our brain that deal with secridity

and deal with religious concepts right

i think what we have to understand is that for many right wing individuals in america

especially those that tend towards nationalism

so you know the found i can't wait till this is over

we're going to go right to moldbog

as they have become religious figures they're the ideal of them

has taken on a life of its own that is in many ways

you know surpassed the actuality of what the men are

and so i think this gets into this idea where we need to start separating sometimes and understanding that there is the spirit of ideals

and then there's the technical definition of things right

i think it's really important that we approach things from this this bi modal perspective

and understanding that like

yes technically the founding fathers

did these things failed in these ways did these works of writing

etcetera et cetera

but we also need to recognize it for a large portion of the country

the founding fathers

have created this almost religious vigure of like the spirit of individualism right

or you know what what

you knowr com sorry ber might have called like

you know the protestant work ethic that is being

you know ingrained in these things and if you don't

i know that you might not like that take but if you don't recogniz that that's a portion

of how we view the founding fathers in this country

it's going to be difficult for you to parse out the contradictions and why they exist

so understanding it from a psychological and religious perspective

is an important scope that we need to engage with and tackle if we're going to have meaningful conversations

about how we view

the founding fathers in this country

think oh that's something with that

ok oh my god

please for the love of god

jangles everything you fuck and sat

is dead god damn wrong you know how you said it was all about

talking about stop confidently asserting incorrect things you know how you're saying that you could debate fuck and right wingers as long as you do what you're talking about you obviously don't know what you're talking about when it comes to the subject specific

losing you o on fucking two hundred and fifty years ago is not fucking ancient goddamn times we're not using feeling micheh we're not using teleo stare back a tucking

we're not using fucking telescopes in order to peer through the fuck and you know that the beginning of the universe in order to understand what the founding fathers

meant and intended andt a sign lesally wrote down shut the fo

would you try to say i literally wrote down they literally wrote down

every single fucking thing that they said and then on top of that if there's political conceptions that still exist today for instance

the balance of power between multiple chambers of government

has that has that changed in the pazle look the saye now has it and you shut the fuck up if you want to hear no grandplaine

do you want to hear the point or do you want to talk for me do you know you already know everything i'm going to say n know you can go connor you got ok when yeah ok one of the other things that you asserted

was basically that they wouldn't understand women fucking having the right to vote or people of color fucking having the right to vote

bartolome delas casas was an indigenous fucking lawyer for fucking native americans in the sixteenth

century

there were fucking ab abolitionists who were founders of the fucking country who believed that in order to fuck and advocate for a true and you know comprehensive and a more perfect union that black people and fucking native people needed rights under the federal fucking system and on top of that the first fucking suffragette convention

was an eighteen forty

which is literally contemporary to some of the founding fathers so the fact that you're pretending that these dudes are like fucking wiping their asses with fucking rocks and we can't understand what the fuck they're saying it's factually wrong

that

respond i'm going to scream

dude

i'm a scream at you when do women get the right to vote you say oh it's not that long n in twent years suer jetson like the eighteenth superjts exist in eight hundred forty women di when did women get the right to vote

after most of those people who are exisiting eight eunend forty were dead blaock isn't credible

you did not address anything that i said

nothing wh would you trust

a scientist

from seven hundred sixty yes or no

would i trust on what astronomy anything literally anything

sure astronomy absolutely you're wrong sorry no i guess the telescopes they literally predicted plan it's back in the seventy t one of b the years a researchkes our everything we had better all right every idea bettering follos for every idea that you have we we have eloosened it on there for two hundred and fifty years we have better ideas now than they didn't if you disagree with that i'm sorry you're wrong right ourds are freedom are much better you could

said oh one fucking guy why do you pep people you do you are goingthers like a few a the people a few the founding fathers like tossed around the idea of abolition

did they really do we want to like all these fucking cowards like own slaves but like the in their heart in their o hearts the really didn't all like slavery awesome they kept it they kept in slavery to keep the unan together you know what may a hey

we can call them cowards we can say that hey that's the choice they had to make the time i'm not interested in morally impugning the founding fathers all i'm trying to do all i've been trying to do from the very very beginning is say that anybody who tries to like use the founding fathers to like

great god what we want to do today is an idiot who cares what they want to do not because they were bad people but because they interisted two hundred fifty years ago they did not have any idea what our infrastructure is today they had no idea what our information systems are toy di know i our education the no idea what interest are today so what the pu we listen to them any time if both the founding fathers as do today is fiction if you disa

with that your wall what that's much to acknowledge that because you're give me a writing give me a writing on what bejamin franker said that we should do in twenty twenty one otherwise you're full shit i'll literally look it up you know find you somethingk that frank the stufking but at the same time why would anybther why would anybody based off of what you sad consider what la or a

marcus a reallys people who have been dead for ten times longer

but who are still offering philosophical and spiritual and virtual fucking guidance

two

p millions

of people across the fucking planet and not for some fucking religious motivation

literally just secular descriptions of politics and how they work why would anybody based off of your logic why would anybody consider anything that these people had to say when they've literally been dead ten times ong in dond storic any other on then that's the basis for like in the bet this is bullshit the virtues don't we principles don't change power doesn't change as a matter of fact

ceion that in't understand no these things have been understood for thousands of year i dont we have a difficultception what freedom others because you know why do we have a going to wrong why do they don't change why are you wrong why don't we have a di proerception means down you yeah i know i s joe yeah i want to pers yeah i want to perch something that's goct

said

and connor said

it at the same time

let's be careful with one thing right there are entire continents

that were

that had their own cultural expression

their own

um do you nequ this within

the world

at large

and then a concentrated effort

to colonize them

and strip them of their humanity their culture and who they are is something that we ought to

to recognize so i think that while we can agree that

these ideas and these invokions of these

from being quite frank

dead white guys perpetuates itself all over society we also never really looked at something else like we never were given the opportunity to what are the perspectives of

other individuals that these communities looked up to and respected

and due to a lot of reasons they were kind of

race from society but

i think that's something we ought to breakfast but i think something that scott brought up

which is really important here in

because this is my concern

when navigating around white nationalists

is that

one thing that they like to invoke

is this idea that the founding fathers and these individuals of these country are not they're not kings they're not monarchs they're beyond that they are these

these these deities and these figures that ought to not be challenged in any way and then what they do is they then go the next level down and say like

this constitution is a document that is consistent across all of society and that we ought not to change it because

it's essentially our bible so our founding fathers are gods and the constitution these documents they created our bibles now i'm not saying that that's what every single individual who believes right

because i'm saying that this exists and i've heard this within this particular space but then when i branch it out i see the consequences of that type of rhetoric where people firmly don't like

firmly

don't believe that the constitution is a living document and the's people who firmly don't believe

that the founding fathers are

are abel to be critiqued

and then what sucks about it is that like we understand that we we can critique anybody like we critique each other right now so why is it that these individuals found a way

to transcend

to a higher plane of consciousness i think like there's a lot i

there's a lot of like adopting of other things unintentionally but that's like a totally other thing

ok

so

we're going to wrap it up now

it's already pretty late so you guys want ending statements so you just want to wrap it up

i think we should rabb wann to

i'm fine

be honest with the

i'm down here

tommy said he wanted an ending statement

oh it's ok i'll just

but i need just need thirty

thirty seconds on the clock

ok janglesi also get thirty seconds of the clock after we just wrap it up

okay

benjamin franklin said love your enemies for they tell you your fault

he that falls in love with himself will have no rivals

there was never a good war or a bad peace

hey that lies down with dog sll riight with please better slip with the fot th look be for find yourself behind don't perst do'e your neighbors if you own windows that are glass

he that would live in peace at ease well done is better than else ieep going twenty otheruch in twenty twenty one in century i betteright good things good

was you wont go and the day i just begun she boken p it go wt the morning it's not a day it's a day of totching there was not oation having shes going toch she wants there is other a

's gone to she was here's another babyh here's another baby she's gone to here's another baby

so if you are inside the pace right y on the five the gentle voice that talks to you won't talk forver

shes so she was there's another bater she's gone to she wasre's another bahere's another b shes gone

i'm gonna i'm gona take a pce give me a second

a day just begoken i go on the morning it's a day it's a day of catching its not having she's going toch she wants there is another a she's gone to moorroble

she here's another baby here's another baby she's gone here's another baby

so if you are in sight of the days right she's a huntter on the f the gentle oice that talks to you won't talk forever it

she's so she wasres another ba she's gone to she wass another baheres another ba she's gone to boil

tol that she another baby

she's gone tomorrow all that she wants

he is another baby

mm

oh that she wants he's another baby

she's gone tomorrow all that she wants

here's another beabor

may you say

this is a long interview holy shit

ok let's watch

sell

their identity

it's narcissism not philosophy

one of the very few left operating in the shadows of the internet needless to say is a man called i should give you guys some background information me give you some background in forro infull

this guy the tucker' is going to interview his name is curtis yarvin

he was part of the

neo reactionary movement

he was a silicon valley creepy guy he's in bed with peter teal

and he has an idea called neo reaction

and

he's y he's a critic of democracy

and american enlightenment

and

he believe it's just some

i it's hard to fuck in someone up

but he's just a critic

he's a he's a critic he's an intellectual critic

ya he's just

he's interesting guy he's really interesting super fascinating super interesting

he's pretty smart he's got he's really insightful

a he's not as smart as nick land he's not as interesting as nick land

but

you know

he's got some stuff to say

im

the media tried to smear him as like an alt right guy

he's not all right he's not

a white nationalist

he's more like a libertarian

with weird characteristics

that's what i'll call him libertarian with weird characteristics

respective philosophy has more to speak than he might let on why

are you saying that

curtis garvin

for years he blogged under the name mentus molbug n and we should say that curtis yarvan

neodctionary means

he's trying to return to the

critique of

but dur the modern

enlightenment

and democracy and stuff

like the reactionaries to the french revolution

did you read all qualified reservations yes i did

i did

i read it

all that she wantsre is another baby

she's gone to borrow all that she wants

re is another baby

has a job he's a software developer

t

herbit is stupid as folk

h he's also doing a project now called urbit

are he's trying to decentralize the internet

h and implement his ideas it's he's like a utopian he's like a utopian libertarian socialist

i can't explain it just watching himse'll be super interested

i promise you something o

this guy is super interesting

he's super super interested

i promise you that much

i can promise you her fact

actuality he super interesting let's watch it

i've been wanting to watch this i haven't watched it

so let's watch it together

but purely because he had something to say he wrote

about a million words

for free on the internet about his

life philosop

now

personally i would be lying if i said i understood all of it don't have the necessary i q to claim that

but i can say having read a lot of its interesting is help provocative gets you thinking and more than anything adds needed perspective on the moment

we're in now

for the crime of saying interesting things curtis yarvin

has been hounded

nonstop

by the people who write wikipedia by the banks

by the people who maintain the status quo at all costs

we think particularly because we have a full hour

thatll be worth

talking to courtisyar

about what he makes of the moment we're living in right now by the way if you're interested in reading more he writes and substack

it's called gray mirror

is his feed i guess on subscon a chritis arben a genuinely interesting person honored to have him with us today

thank you for that lovely intro tucker i'm know this is one of those conversations that's sound too fit was it too fake

and thead you know i mean i'm not

i'm not even i just have wanted to have you on

because i think you're really interesting i don't understand everything that you're arguing i don't know if i agree with it or not

but i do know that you're considered highly controversial

b by people which is almost always a sign that you are saying things that you are worth thinking about how have has it been five months

thank you gaga

i need a five month badge i don't even have a five month badge

i need to badges guys

think

i've read a lot of your stuff i

think you're a hater in any sense you're not calling for anyone to be heard i don't think you're crazy

think you're pretty far out in a way that is worth

thinking about anyway thank you for coming i appreciate this i think

actually

just to put the you know

i think the best slur out there is that if you read my wikipedia biography

it basically has me saying that black people should be enslaved because there are congenal congenitally stupid

and that's which is a remarkable thing to say actually i think that's what my bank canceled me for

and it's if you actually

what a fult

did he actually say that

if i don't think we can watch this then if he said that s what the fuck

oh that i'm in

see for myself

ok he did he's denying it he's denying

but if you sort of read it straight out kind of stereotypically

you read that and i'm just like this is beautiful

i'm like this is a beautiful work of propaganda

directed a such a slur i mean i know i know i know children and i yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah i think i think i think i think i think recently my son actually got cancelled from his soccer team

a for that i'm not sure but there was something like that it worked out well in the end

m but you know it's a it's a

it's

it's a remarkable experience sort of

and

in a way like when i look at the things that

you know sort of out of this million words that you get

sort of noticed or cancelled for

you basically learn not how to not do these things and how to not create the opportunity right sh i mean on right winger or edge lords

see what i mean

like what the fock

for these kinds of strange construction

it's just so interesting that it gets the first thing he brings up like dude get

talk about the other s

what's the funk is wrong with you

no it's

like i gui he's trying to say like oh yeah they they're lying about me or whatever but it's like

still dude like that's what you're going to open with

the fun

that they want

in i can' overstate this since for our

audience that reads

you know take

take an hour and read curtis yarvin

and it's

it bears no resemblance to the way that it's characterized but it's interesting that they focused on you to shut you down you're clearly saying things

that threaten them

so let's just give our viewers a taste of what you actually think so

our withdrawal from afghanistan devolved immediately into a profound humili yet this is what i wanted to hear

yeah and i guess i have to say like i don't agree with him but

he still offers

insights into what silicon valley is thinking

i don't know maybe i'm giting too much creds

reiation for the united states and the american empire

such as it is

take three steps back as a philosopher and assess what this tells us about our current system well

whatever you'r humiliated

it should be

always be a learning experience yes you're being as a person

you're being humiliated because you learn something

that was painful to you es you didn't want to know or didn't want to be reminded of

yes and that's beautiful thing it's a beautiful thing having been been been humiliated and it's a beautiful and necessary

and wonderful thing and there are two kinds of people

who respond to humiliation in two different ways

either basically they take that in and they're like ok

what was it that i learned that was

so painful

and how do i avoid making the same mistake again and getting humiliated again in the same way

or you know they're sort of more than narcissistic type and they go into this kind of narcissistic rage where they're just like i never want to hear they blame the message

somethly and they blame the messenger

and so you know with sort of the fall of afghanistan i think that

there are a lot of people

who still think of the u s government as having the competence that it had

fifty years ago

seventy years ago

even in the fall of saigon which was basically a masterpie

compared to

and and

and and and so they look at this

you know these are americans out there and they have a kind of you know deeply ritual

association with the real washington and both of us have a family background in the real washingtones and so

you know what they think of and pause there and just tell o our viewers what your background is oh you know my dad was foreign service officer which is so i went around living in embassies and consulates

around

his grandparents were in the communist party do you know that

he's like a he's a big right winger but

yeah

the world that was kind of a

an international jew you might say actually i always wanted like a lifetime subscription to international jew magazine can you see it

you know but

okay dude i this guy's an edgmlore like i know he's jewish so i guess he's allowed to say that but

is

being edgy i don't i don't trust this

w is is this even safe to watch because i i'm i mean

that's borderline

twich

but

i'm scared about what he's going to say going forward so you know what

i need like a mod to watch this whole thing and then i'll be fine becuse this dude is just a fuckin

dude this is why i thougking can't stand right wingers i literally can't stand

them because they literally can't contain

being edgy in public

and it gets me in fucking trouble you know

this is national t v i know but

i don't know how strict ititch is

compared to this

i don't want to risk it

there's no point in risking

canlexander watch

just watch it privately and just see if there's funck in

yeah

it doesn't get worse

i i need a mad to

his self depreciating humor is ok

yeah i know but

remember where we are at

ok so you have to be mindful that

i don't know i don't know i mem it's not like i'm partnered tonight and there's someone i can talk to about this

i got my partnership application denied

for no reason

the reason they gave me was that

you need to wait ninety day sixty day or whatever ninety days after a suspension whatever

and i weaited the exact amount

to submit it in a month later they told me no

looks like your channel was recently suspended channels must be a good standing for at least ninety days

following their last suspension

which i was

so it's weird

or maybe they meed ninety days after

your suspension was restored

but my suspension was p all that's what they meant

what they mean is ninety days

after you get on bad

ah dude i should have just waited

well the ninety days are up now because it's september

so i could do it in like a week or whatever

ten days

the next time i could do it is in like september twenty whatever

so i can't even do it yet

are you watching gogan nights

nice

all that she wants is another baby

she's gone to brrow all that she wants

here's another baby

h

all that she wants

is another baby

she is gone tomorrow

all that she wants is another baby

yeah

not far

bas

wen't fok the emmy on instagram

she leads a lonely life

oh that she won't

she's gone tomorrow

oh les she ah

no that's you wre

here's another baby

is goe tomorro that she wants a joke for me today hash taged

can you put my name on your forehead j j

pro

number one

no because

on

i don't think

so i'm not saying

you are

s

so you had to like someve yourself or

not then you have to

sb or whatever they got not ry some greedy

but it's like

if all the

oh believe yeah we're due eight hours

skin is very sensitive to the point i can i can only literally

literally only wear one tip

powder

on my

in

m

i cannot p my girl

which is why i don't know hom going to do the harley quin is this sze play because

i'm going to have to use like

strawberries for like the red or some shit down

jonhniph

yes but it's you go i know

everyone left to go contact cana's top talent i know

they're trying to find agencies for me

something on

i think

i can i my phone was going

i think those are the ages

calling

we need com thean but goe then is gone thank you marx

appreciate you

youn see the issue

three

amazing

i was on america scot talan and one and simon powell

got on his knees and bowed down

sout

dan hahill skipping over messages didn't know you were like that core caution shut up

ok

so many people have complained

well i need a check mark honestly

i need a check mar

who's on line

what was on line

oh that' she wants

gone tomorrow

mmhm

yes it is it

hi cavalier

oh

ingbot it ok wh we just a lit it down with some s oil ok

so each our own

togein

that

as supposed to track the moisure a little better

okay sir

the lyrics and i'm going to charm this

i must do i know the son white horse hacew

i'm not a taylor swet fan

they don't hate her anything i just don't like listen to her like

slee

so

see that

thought she said

katie perry dark horse

or black horse or whatever it is

that's why i was

where's the content

one

i'm going to message someone

she leads a lonely life

wake up zirka

is already awake

pretty sure

she leads a lonely life

oh that you won

will i ever play mincraft again

poss if circo makes a server he was planning on making a server i think with all the royal people on it and it'll be guys versus girls apparently and that actually sounds fun

i'm gona try to leach

so

i'm going to try to leech

give me a second

y

your you don't have just sh i maye you for the a sens of the story

maange y life

so today we're going to do something fun and something different something i'm really looking forward to

so

you know we've been on the david packman show i think about twice now

and you know really appreciate his dialogue in the way that he works in the way he thinks and stuff like that

and so you know the last time we were on on david packman show we sort of talked a little bit about

you know sometimes he'll say that people will kind of disagree with him and will be pretty vocal

and i sort of mentioned to him that you know it would be really cool to like

sort of talk to someone in an open ended

non judgmental manner about you know what they believe and how they came to believe it

becuse i find that so much of political discourse right now is like really just you know

plastering the other side is backward or idiots or whatever

and one of the things that i really appreciate we can't watch moldbug i don't trust that guy he's too edgy

we're goinga fuck and see if it's clean

first mod's a going to check it then we're going to see if we watch it

appreciate about you know training to be kind of non judgmental through you know became training to become a monk

and sort of accepting people where they're at and like learning how to listen is all and also like learning how to be a good listener through

m you know training as a therapist

i think that those skills can actually be applied to like you know non therapeutic or non spiritual places

and one of the goals that we kind of are focused on you know here at healthy gamer is just to try to understand people right

and educate people about different different perspectives

and so a lot of times our focus has been on like mental health but sometimes we'll talk about stuff like you know how to fih

you can you guys give me a second

me second

me second give me second give me second give me a second

missing it

ick on on a second

make milk whi was saying

a close second

i'm never gonna say i'm sorry i'm a lve for every moe

ho should we study and things like that

but today we're going to try something a little bit different

and we're going to hop into a call with

david packman as well as a long time

i don't know if i should call him fan of the show

but you know there's someone who's who disagrees a lot with david packman but i understand calls in a lot and the i think they've got like a good and healthy dialogue hopefully

and that's jimmy from philly

and so we're going to hop in with them and we're just going to talk to jimmy for and david for a little while and try to sort of understand you know a little bit about

jimmy's experience of the world and what he believes

so i know it's a little bit different but i'm really looking forward to it

and let's get started

welcome everyone david do you want to go

good i'm sorry

this guy fucking he's like

he has so much audacity

for how he looks you know

he has so much audacity

what by

go ahead and kick things off

let me do that yeah just to kind of set the situation here so basically

i talk to all sorts of people on my show at some point

jimmy started calling in and we know jimmy is jimmy from philly

and we would he would bring to me different ideas and questions and i found me to be an interesting character a sad character in many ways a concerning character in some ways as well

what is that

but i think o report is sort of ok although jimmy

does regularly say

you know homophobic things transphobic things racist things et cetera and i think there's probably a lot to dig into there about the the sort of origins

why did this guy's acting like the biggest bad ass

maybe he is but

why does he look

he doesn't look well

or oranges of that

a couple things i'll mention about you know our dialogue with with jimmy

m jimmy has talked to me about his problems with alcohol and you guys can probably see he's got some bottles there over his right shoulder

and that's

this shit is personal do these people hate each other

they actually have personal beef

this guy drove pacman so crazy that he had to bring him on dr kay to sort the beef

that's something i've talked to jimmy about before

um jimmy has talked about how he

has a daughter but at least at one point wasn't allowed to see her because of some physical violence that jimmy was at least aku i'll say he was accused of and will maybe leave it to jimmy to tell us more about the specifics of that

jimmy was also arrested not long ago because of as i understand it

chasing a car

with four black teenagers down the street while intoxicated and that led to a sort of legal

situation as well for jimmy and that's kind of the jimmy that i that i know big picture

and every once in a while jimmy will say something that's sort of open

and he seems open to considering other ideas et cetera

but very quickly he'll go back into

the transphobia the homophobia the racis and and that's kind of that's jimmy as far as my relationship with him which has been through

the internet and through my show

quite the introduction

so i want to just clarify a couple things so i noticed you know david

mentioned like alcohol use and things like that

so just to clarify and make sure we're all on the same page jimmy i am a psychiatrist

but i and my understanding of this conversation is that you know i'm not here because david's here too we're going to just three people having a conversation talk i wanted to just make sure that are you under the impression that i'm your medical doctor or that i diagnose you with anything you for anything ok

so we're just going to have a conversation and try to understand each other better so the goal of what we do

the reason i stream is just so that we can try to understand

people better

and share that understanding with everyone who's watching

are you kind of cool with that

yes

just so you understand you know if after the call if you do sort of decide that you do want mental health support or treatment or things like that

you're welcome to kind of message us and we can kind of provide you with resources we do that for every you know guest that that comes on

it you know but that's kind of it your request we're not going to push anything on you or recommend anything or anything like that

it's just someth su why

ok

um so jimmy is it okay if i kind of ask you i mean do you want to share a little bit like do you want to offer an introduction or

i've got to come o i mean

yeah so first of all like how did it feel to hear david's kind of like litany of how he introduced you

why he's done a lot of it wrong

actually

ok

can you when i get the call with him last year

i clearly said that they were forur

black

twenty somethings not teenagers

this didn't occur in philadelphia it occurred in the suburbs

let's see what else

a

i was arrested for public drunkenness but i beat the case

they had a video of me going after a car

it doesn't prove that i was druck

they the arrest of me because i was off my pri

the video showed them that i was off the property

and they said i was publicly drunk the video showed that i was angry

not that i was drwgk

m

i was drunk but

hm

i was very

i wasn't that drunk i was

they were ready to let me go at the police station

i said the m were in the back of the police car so they wont let me go

sure

so what i'm kind of hearing is that like you didn't get a fair rap

from david

well here's what happened ok so

i'm a trump supporter i have signs on my lawn they continue to get stolen right

so i sat out there was guarding

and i'm drinking a little bit while i'm out there

four black men bumbwah the lan

it takes signs real quick

and they ride around the

lak

pointing me three times

fuck whitey

fock trump

the second time they did i ran in the house i got a knife

third time they got caught the delight

i ran af to the cor

was a little tipsy i stopped to stab the top of the tire

i should have stabbed the sidewall but

the night this

disintegrated in my hed

and at

they got in the car lafh and then chaseed me back to the house

some that we took a video of me doing this

and that

the gave it to the cops

in the cops locked me up for public darkness but i beat the case because

they never showed up

they never they didn't have a case

yp

yeaes so i mean thanks for sharing that jimmy i appreciate it but what i'm kind of curious about is like

when you have kind of your side of the story and like i was frankly kind of shocked i mean david is it i mean is it ok if i be critical of you

for second

please i wouldn't i would love it

so like here he is introducing you

and like he starts off with like bottles in the back and like got arrested for this and like

you know it's kind of a weird way if it's a real charmer

yeah i mean how does that feelce be

i mean likecause it's almost like he's sharing like the most negative or pro provocative things about

well

davidson propaganda what can i tell you i mean he's good at it you

yes so how does that

how does that make you kind of feel to be and i was laughing the entire im and i noticed that yeah that's what i was kind of asking

right because and so so i don't get to send it easy doc if that's where you're getting that i really don't

people can say what they want i really don't care

yes o not the person

you know now see what david wants to make a out of in this situation is

basically that i'm crazy for going after the car

why had two choices doc

how many men are going to sit there

when four men come onto their lawn

take their property i don't give a shit what it was

for my trump signs

then you have to t

the tomrity didn't drive around the neighborhood three times

yelling racial epitaps at me

winting me with the signs to g at the window

and i'm just supposed to sit there like a little soy boy

i don't think so

that's not going to happen

that's not the type of person i am

i am going to do something about

right or wrong i'm going to jail i don't gi a flap

you do something like that to me

you are you're going to get held responsible in some kind of way and you

i think the whole thing's funny

the whole thing's funny

youh so i jimmy

you kind of said that's not the kind of person i am can you help me understand what kind of person you are

well apparently david would have sat on the wall watched these morons righte around and torn him

amd thought it was crazy for me to go after the

yeah so jimmy i'm going to just i may do something a little bit unusual i may sort of ask a question again so when i ask you like you said that's not the kind of person i am and you say

wehle david would have done this like

i'm not interested in what kind of person gave it as you s like in other words i had two choices right

i was duted to call the police or do nothing

but but but they were was trying to make me sound crazy that

and i actually took action when the have to

that just in all from

and do you find saying i'm not kind of person

that's going to sit there

and watch something like that

yeah sure i's right anyay

yet

you know i get that

uh so i'm i'm

but do you oftentimes so what i'm hearing is that like you know a lot of people in your situation kind of may lay down and take it

but you're not going to lay down and take it

yeah but this was basically a thing david put out there you know like i was nuts for taking action

i was not crezd i just di y pl person i a

and i wouldn't blame the guys for not doing that

sure so but

ya

yeah and do you find that oftentimes you know people try to like paint you as crazy by sort of sharing stories like this or

or things like that

well i am a little nutstock i have no problem with that

what is i mean i do thingk that most people wouldn't do

i'm very aware of

that is my personality that's how i am

can you help me understand that a little bit like what do you do that other people wouldn't like help me understand like who are you bro

but

gee i don't know i

i'd like to have fun

ok

i see everything is funny

ok

i make fun of everybody and everyone including myself

ok david see if i make fun of like a

homosexual

or transsexual let's face it a man in the dress is the funniest thing

since the dawn of time all right i'm sorry

i make fun of these folks

but that doesn't mean that i hate them

if these people want to be accepted as normal

then they better be ready to take jokes

you understand

yeah

if you're making them some secret caw which is what david does

and then that

that's just

they're not special people

ok

oh my godness

i have nothing against him

but i think that when shit is funny it's funny and i'm going to point it out

sure

so what i'm kind of hearing is that the way that you you kind of you know treat them in a sense fairly

right because

everyone gets made fun of i don't treat them any way i made fun of them

sure

yeah

big deal

w they can't handle that

and you wearing a dress trying to

look if you look like steve i'm not go on you susie ok i'm just not doing it

i'm not doing it

i think in new york

a landlord or an employer

is fined well over one hundred thousand dollars if they don't refer to these people

as a certain pronoun it could be they ars

what

that's insanity

i'm not going to accept your delusion

go ahead and be diluded you have the freedom to do it

but you're not going to force me to withddress you

as a woman when you're clearly a man

it makes that simple

this is comp this is logic

is science biology

yeah and and so i'm i'm a little bit curious jimmy when when you sort of

you know when there's a group of people that are defying science and logic and biology like

how does that

because you seem to get kind of passionate there as you were talking about it how does that affect you

wo but is this guy

who is this guy doude

it pisses me off

when what pisses you off about it

what pisses me off you're trying to get me to accept your delusion

you have the right to be delusional but

you a make a me look if you look like steve i'm not calling you susie that's want to know where they found im

were

i'm this guy dude

oh yeah this is the people david pacman has to deal with every day

good

limves s'll never be comfortable

you always have crazy people

bothering you

saying dumb shit

that sums it up i ale philosophy

sure

i got no problem with gae i got no problem with you

oh do sh lease call me

hello

hello

hello i hear you

do so

yeah the your name

they ask me

that's your real name susu

yeah yeah absolutely my birthdaye what's up

so this is actually really really important

wll give me a secon yeah

ok

it's super important

okay

hold on a minute

oh okay

we can hold for ads

i listen

yeah i'm listening

so why are you talking she about me

because you're an ass hole and you're the worst

and you pic from that background

is my room

that's so disgusting what the fuck is wrong with you

h some some things some things but but anyway yeah are you going to answer for your crimes against uh kicking my dog

no

yeah that's what i thought y you always avoiding dog in line how about that

keep your foot off my dog

what if your dog's going to run into my foot what do you expect going to happen

you have another foot you could pick up that other foot you know you got to be

conscientious of dogs running a where your sword memember you had a sword

oh yeah it's upstairs i got an axe down here though

oll get it

i

do you mean why

five

i want to see you

i'm coming

do actually

so we got like this one

oh i like this one this one's pretty cool it's like

looks like a viking kind of x that looks like oh that ones cool

yeah this one's just kind of like a simple you know get the job done kind of x but this one like

i break this one out for special occasion you go to the renaissance fre

ah no

w why do you have

medieval weapons

oook you

excuse me

that was a very personal question you

you get me on stream and you ask me like super personal invasive questions like what do you have medieval weapons like

that is so rude man

like you can't be putting me on blass like that

forocked up

look all i'm saying is that

it's a little bit gridche

you're you're wrong that's what reallycur a nerd or something

knives arech are for chads what are you talking about i'm confused

what are your views on veganism

not a fan

i like me

augards

are you a vegan

no

ok me right now

oh let me see

let me

oh shit i just kind of dented my monitor with my axe that's fine

okay let me let me see i'm going to i want to make sure you're not lying to me

i'm going to your scream i'm checking

im waning to meete you so i don't

like here myself

okay let's

they' got like stream sception here

oh god i hate looking at myself like why am i so big on your stream

make me smaller

can you shrink on that

that a chicken nugget or like a tokito what is that it's ethiopian inerbred

wouldn't chick

that is really cool i i've never seen that before

are you going to share

no

is your own faer

thank yous fine

oh well um that's very that's very

upseting me you know i kind of wanted some i got i got coirkies by the way

got what

i got cookies chipsahoy you do you like cookies

yeah can i have one

mae i'll share it with you just this one time

them

thank you

you welcome

ya e

i feel like sharing is like hearing and stuff

so what do you do

to stdream about

um i just make people watch whatever it is that i'm watching

ah we watched some alex jones do you like that guy

really

yeah

he'sve the guy

he has some really good remixes out there a my favorite ones the gay frogs remikes they go pretty hard

so that's what we were watching we also watched a bit of a

hillary clinton remixes i don't know you know i just do whatever i'm feeling

at the time

m interesting so

let me ask you a question

yeah i rated you

last time remember that

yeah i did i also like danny devito here's my drawings

so

is it true that you are a cat

sometimes like go part time part time cat you know the rest of the time have to pay my bills i can't be a cat forever

but how

i just do it like you know you just

he just go like

two

it's easy

have you ever tried it

no

hight why not because you're actually not allowed to change your species

w who said that

where

it's literally in a law

that that's not a lot there's a man that became a dolphin i'm going to show you you don't know what you're talking about

you don't know you don't know what you're talking about like

look at ok

dolphin

okay heare i'm i'm proving you wrong right now because

i know what i'm talking about look at this

if you can't change your species

then fukn explained this

what a fuck is that

it's dolphin

dolphin man

gary what is that

like it's dolphin man by look

see

if you can't change your species how is this dolphin man right here in front of our eyes seeing is believing

this is the stuff you watch

sometimes

uh sometimes we also watch uh

this guy

eyes of the way

y what a fucight

yeah why

because you can be anything you want you can totally change your species you can't just tell me that people can't change your species when this is right in front of you

the proof's right here man

but

ok so

do you not see the insanity in this

i don't know i think he looks pretty good

i can clearly tell he's a horse

would you recommend him to take ivor mectnin

yeah

really

yeah

i mean he looks he looks equipped for it you know

and so

question why are you so weird go ahead

um i don't i don't know w

i i really can't tell you i was raised with a very nice and traditional family and i think i just disappointed them i don't

sorry

i put my ax away i like to practice kfe safety here you've got to you got to keep your axe

since

interesting

amazing

thank you

so how can you remember that giy that

how come you're never on the zircer way on

oh only because he asked me at like the worst possible times i've been super busy this month

i haven't really been stcreaming at all

a as much as i normally do

it's not that i don't want to go i love zirc he's super fun and everyone that he has on his show is like really

really interesting so i do want to go on let's just

unlucky unlucky circumstances bad timing

interesting

im

what is your favorite animal

octopus

what

you asked me whatbo my favorite animal is octopus they've got like four brains and shit they're super smart and

uh i don't know they're cool they got le them wiggly arms

and did you know that there one of the arms is there dick

what

yeah like foral one of the octopuses tentacles

is there there penis

so you never know like you could be shaking their hand you could be shaking their dick who knows you know it's the mystery that i think makes them so intriguing

did you watch the netflix thinge called my octopus

friend

my octopus re

no that's not the thing is the documentary about an octopus

is it my octopus teacher

yeah that one

no i haven't but it looks pretty good oscar winter my octopus teacher youll the octopus got an oscar

that's amazing the dude had sex with an uncle

octobus

there was a lady that had sex with the dolphin

oh

h well she said she was like a dolphin trainer right

and she said that she was getting really close to one of the dolphins and the dolphin was horny so she just like reached over and gave the dolphin a little wink

oh that that's not yes only like

likes

there's that first base

i don't i don't know i don't know what base it is with a dolphin

but yeah it's a real thing that happened she said i helped her bond with the dolphins

what do you think w

i personally would not give a hand job to a dolphin

i

amazed

im anyway

so you know why i called you

you said you wanted to

have a chat what's up

um no i actually haved a reason

ok what's the reason

so

recently it's come to my attention

yes

that

you have

done horrible things

in my name

yeah

by

bnny

i don't know you seem like a nice person i figured you'd forgive me you know

do you

oh okay

and

and this is really really important

by

and i have its so

are you ready

i'm ready

all right guys let's continue the vido

right there's a

i'm eating right now and this is like

trans people

i know i think it's funny as hell

i think it's abs of fucking lootly hilarious

and i mocked theim

but that doesn't mean i hate them that doesn't mean

if i we if

look

if i were to grandpoo bob would i stop it now i think it's hilarious

it's a shit show i mean you know

i just think it's funnier

and can you help me ustand

what

this may sound like a weird question ok but

can you help me understand what you think is funny about it

a man in a dress

that says it all

ok

by games and they got a deep voice

i mean come on man this shit is funny

okay

okay

i hear what you're saying

so i think part of the problem with you know dissecting humor is this the moment you desect it kind of falls apart right

i so that good luck

part of it is the comies are destroying comedy that's what it really is

ok

everybody wants to get you don't have the right not to be offended

you don't

people can make fun of you

it doesn't make them hateful people

ok i'm not a hateful person

neither wre he sixteen

how do you know whether someone is is you know when someone mocks you

how do you know whether that person is hateful or not hateful

you don't but this is the way the left paints

comedy anymore

you can make fun of the hom most you can make fun of the trainees

know that i mean

g minut that

i just finished my food you missed

like to goside fw yourself s you don't have to o me just stnt ma shin

say i'm sorry for the essens of range y life

i'm never gon to say i'm sorry i'm lve for every

i mean look at youtube

they've got a library of things you can't talk about

what

why not

ok

i hear what you're saying so what i'm also hearing that

you know that they're they're kind of

anti science

in a sense

and that that they're also can't become a woman

this is impossible

i don't care if they cut your ake off don't cut the

i don't care

they cannot become a woman when they can change d n a maybe you got an argue

but these peter

cann not become women

and it's just possible

so jimmy let me

let me kind of ask you so you were kind of saying when someone mocks someone else

you know you can't tell whether there's hatred or not hatred

right

like if i mock you if i make fun of you

you know

benefit

but look if you're if you're known as a person to do that

if you known as a perk like ius you do stand up comy

people di know me now

you know i mean it's not my fault that you're snowflake and you can handle a joke

know i mean that's not

if you want to get offended and go and get offended i'm going to lag even harder

okay

so so now what i'm kind of hearing you say is that if they know you're a comedian

then it's ok to make

you know that it's always ok to make fun of people why not

humor is a spiritual principle

it actually brings people together

but the left

is trying to destroy it

ok

um

so jimmy is it ok if i ask you a little bit about it seems like you have a lot of really strong beliefs about what's going on is that fair to say that

is it i'm so curious can you help me understand like how you came to these opinions and how you came to believe these things

because i believe my years in my eyes

when i see a man in the dress i almoust forall the fuck down

i'm skipping down the street when i see this shit like oh my god did you just see

what

ok i have a certain amount of sympathy for these people

but the solution isn't it

follow their delusion

it's not

ress up play barbie i don't give a shit

when you' try

it's coming down a pipe where they're going to i'm going to be forced to address these people

jim i whatever they we you what like we i'm going to point something out to you so there have been like three or four questions and i'm curious you know what you think about that that i've asked you about you

and your answer seems to be

w the f doesn't involve you

so i'll ask you like how did you come to believe these things and you kind of started out with like saying i to believe

i i told you i believe my eyes and my ears yees this is how r works everything's funny

okay everythings for me

like i think in cartoon sometimes i don't know why

so jimmy can you help me understand a little bit about where you grow grew up can i ask you some questions about your past

yeah yeah i grew up in philly

ok what was going up like for you

what was what

what was going on

this guy fuck controls pacman every day and pacman is just like see what i like pacman's literally just fucking

it's

he just wants someone to know what he's going through

this guy

the mold bug thing is safe

after what after what point

very happy

i used to be so happy

i used to skip down the streets

and of course the kids in philly broke my balls until i stopped doing it

gow does he make any more edgy jokes as he did in the beginning

he was like

he's making like edgy jokes does it ever get edgy like that or

the kids on the coll probably watch it tomorrow

unless tomorrow i do an il because i might do an iral tomorrow

i would skit but i was literally that happy

and i have a lot of energy to so kids wo make fun of me but you

it's guys that dom yeah but this is dr k and this on his you tube

yeah that video

that's filly for you you know you

can't do a god dam arnold streams are als with the focal

thing without getting your balls busted on the corner you know it's like

that's what happens in philly i don't know

doctr k i don't want to interrupt at such a key moment but i do want to just say because

i'm not sure how familiar your audience maybe is either with me or with jimmy but

this is not stage

and i think it's important that we just n know this is stage

fris for your and i'm being serious here

this is not an act of any kind we're just having a cap real conversation

i didn't think it was

no no no i know you don't think i know i know you know it wasn't stage but just for peoples why does pacmn why does he just ban this guy why does he like

have to take hm on dr k which is what is the guy doing

you know

some people in your audience think this has to be staged

this connt the

that's facts honest not that's littly facts

this is n ok sure

so so jimmy let me ask you so narwly i'm shocking the snowflakes

yeah

am

so jimmy so it sounds like when you were growing up you used to like skip

and and you said people would bust your balls for that what does that mean you help me understand what that means

well i mean i was so happy that i literally skipped down the street as a child

and the kids who made fun of me

wasn't that big of a deal

i just stopped skipping down the street i was still happier than the moma fucker but stop skipping down the street

that's all

yeah

and i'm i have kind of a weird question what does it mean to skip what does skipping mean like

skipping is skipping skipping

i thining is right

what do you do what you do to see that

but how do you skip what is it what is it

in see it

what is it like

how do you do it nw not toply top me for real threg

i dieed you do i dieed do

go

is that it

how do you do it

i used to be able to know how when i was a kid

you have

ey let me trop

like that

like that

yeah

yes

like that

right

oh you jump every step let me checke that outp

like that ok

hollld that i wanta do it

like that

right

take two steps each

each foot

ohy

that's how you do it

right

up on one foot twice then transition to the other foot

hold on

transition to the other phone repeat hold onp

okay i think i got

like that rot

ho

but i don't fukon understand this shit

oh my god

i can't believe i forgotten how to fucking skip dude i used to know how to do this

thank you clabre i appreciate you

i used to know how to fuck and do what i swear

you i did it as a kid

okay

running man forward

can't skip with busted balls

i don't know how to do it

like so do you think that

i mean how did you feel before you know when you were skipping down the street

and people would start making fun of you do you remember how you felt as a kid

i i didn't like it but do any cardio yeah

that's

whatal can your mom

that's

what happened

m

oh

so exhausting

and tiring

you gw up in philadelphia

everybody knows what you're doing

they see it

you hang on the corner

you know you got the girls you got the guys you know

sure so srk your blows

peop bke your ball you know

i'm hearing that people would make fun of you and that you sort of didn't like it but that's life

pretty much

yeah

and i'm kind of curious like

you know this is going to sound kind of weird but

do you think as a kid you would have

preferred it if they didn't make fun of you

now because it taught me how to

come back with snappy with the responses to the

insult and shit

i see

so it's as you got to know in your guardian pilly you know you're hanging on the corner

ah

you got to be able to hold your own you know sure so i'm hearing that it was kind of like you kind of grew up right source of the school of hard knocks like

it's btory i me mae i wasn't in some really bad neighborhood i grew up in roxbur

it's almost like the suburb

mmhmm

but i hung all over philadelphia hung in some tough neighborhoods

i was in a boy's home when i was a child

and i

i would hang out with the kids in their neighborhoods gds itn sauth west philly

well i've been all over philadelph

es the w me to run it

what does that mean you were in a boy's home

yeah my mom put me in that

it's called saint francis vocationals

and that

you didn't have to be adjudicated but

i was doing a lot of stupid shit i gotten into drugs

i committed some crimes

my mother didn't know what to do with me she put me in this boysm she thought she was helping me

believe me i had a fucking ball there i don't want to leave

but yeah

you were lad in the community weren' you know i had friends i had

you know we went went to

concerts like fifty oferus like

i went to school in the area

i mean i'm pretty much doc i have i aally have fun everywhere like i have fun in thank you appreciate you joe lewis thank you

thank you jo louis appreciate you

appreciate you

ll

so

peace

you know what i mean like i always

my number one goal

is to have fun

oky

so can i ask you

jimmy so how old were you when you got put int the vocational school

thirteen

and do you remember how you felt when your mom kind of put you in there well i i felt abandoned

was very angry with my mother

i remember her crying kissing me

and my dad going

something like fly right or some shit

you know and know

and but that weore off very quickly

b

like the con artist that was at that age

i kept

kind of let my mother

think

kind of letter let her feel guilty

but within days like i was having a very good time there these were all kids my age

like they put you on different divisions

and i

there were some really cool characters you know i mean like i liked a lot of these guys and a pool table anding ponm table

you know i mean i had fun there i you know i did

i got sent to another place called saying gate

that was moth

that the christian brothers ran that

stay in line for a punishment

in the line means you stand and face the wall

for hours

and of course

i was always online

so so what why did you get sent to saint games

m

the court sent me there i

and with the insistence of my mother

my mother thought that these places tek okid a we shoitd thank you so much tok go kidpreciate you so much man

thank you

thank you so much man

appreciate it

she didn't know what to do

what was wrong what did you need help for whll i was doing drugs i was

to mak cries

did you hit me up on this board

yeah what's your discord

she's just one now

teco kid

i don't think i have you on this one

i'm in yours i tried adding you

eccho

i don't have your request

i don't have your request

i just got it

with some

a

all right

that's the best i con do for now

but thank you for the five ma'am appreciate you

ah man

she di it i was going to die early

the she told me

she's to come to court the judges going to let me go and she i want to placed in and they would listen to her

and i would get real pissed off for her

now this was as a child

as an older man now i understand what my mother was doing

you understand i agree with her

you know she just

she just placed faith in agencies to

oh now bright made me worse

but you know

as a child i fluck and hated

so i'm i'm

kind of

what you're saying on the one hand makes a lot of sense so can i just kind of repeat back what i've heard so far

so you kind of grew up in philly right like not like

super bad situation sort of suburbs but you kind of hung out with some kids went to some parts of town where you got kind of got made fun of

it sounds like you were sort of like a happy go lucky kid

and yeah and i've been ascribed as exactly that

yeah and you know the kids on the street like they

you know

they kind of got you to stop being so carefree pretty quick well no i just stoped skipping

sure

fs got to being a comedian

i just start being a comedian you know they were call me gay and

this is that you know

i mean

it's just

it just teaches you to tough en oug that's all i mean you know you liv in in philly you're on the corner you can't be a

was he

sure you can't you skip down the street but that way somehow you kind of started getting into trouble with like drugs and some criminal activity and stuff yeah and then your mom kind of shipped you off

to one place

and then she kind of shipped you off like and it sounded like you kind of

did what you were supposed to do right so

and then well see here's the first thing they did they took me to the valley forge military a

right they were going to put me in there right

and no w no

fucking way

i was going to be a tin soldier

right

so this the guy thato runs a joint

i

he said im waning to talk to him privately and he pulls me a room and he says listen

if you don't want to come here

we're not going to make you come

he sad i don't care what your parents say

he said do you want to come here i said absolutely not he said ok

y a little consultation my mom and dad

we walked away

how do you feel about that

great

what right what

yeah i mean so

i'm going to ask you kind of a weird question

do you have a sense of why you felt great there

because i didn't want to be a little cadet

ahemy

i just want to do that

follow orders march around wake up at five o'clock fo a

was thirteen with the fuck

i see

and then how did it feel when when you know the judge was ready to let you come home and your mom was like ahh we got to sink games

we when i was a child that really pissed me to fuck off

what pi do you play about that i'm watching

i'm watching

butause she won't take me back

in other words i got angry with her

and i would be in the cell with these kids from kensington where

tenstance like a real bad section philadelp

that's

you know it's where the men are men and so are the women i mean it's crazy a it's gotten even crazier

but these kids would do all kind of shit like way worse shit than me

and their mothers and fathers would pick them up

m would

you know and it it

me aes

as young as that that that was my thing

i couldn't stand her i fuck and hated

and my father behind her back

would say you know it was up to me this wouldn't happen you know so

he pissed me off too because i thought he was a

fucping snowflake

you know when i got older i realized

my mother was trying to help

that's all

i was in nssal i was a kid i mean i was i mature

that i think for a second jimmy

attack

can i think for a second

you don't need my permission to think

hook

so you know jimmy what i'm kind of hearing is that you have every reason to be a snowflake but you'll be damned if you're a snowflake

now

no

how so

gt more you get more respect if you're not a snowflake s

but

the way the left paints people now

a silly buy is the way to go

real

that

yeah so i think that's exactly what i'm saying so i'm what i'm saying is that like

you know the story that you're sharing

makes if you look at like the check boxes of being a snowflake

like

getting abandoned by your mom

getting sent to a military academy getting sent to

a vocational school getting sent to a nut like you're be you know doing what you're graduating from there whatever

and then you know your mom

is like

still like the judge is about to send you home your mom's like i can't handle it

getting sent back to another place

having his dad

huh

i hated for yeah and so like if we think about you know when you use the word snowflake what i sort of think of is like a victim complex

right

is that fair yh

and so what i'm thinking it like when i hear this story bro like it sounds like you know if any wasn't and one is tentitled

to call themselves a victim

it's you

but you're not going to do that

what

now i don't

i'm not a victim of anything i'm

i'm

i'm just

person that's shaped by their experiences you know

i don't see myself as any kind of victim now

i i i get

a

he's holding on

i get that you don't see yourself as that's sort of what i'm saying but if you like if you think about it right so if you had like

you know let's say a liberal snowflake who had your background do you think they would think of themselves as a victim

i don't know

interesting ok

i couldn't you know i can yh speak for my i mean you know i don't know i wasusly it was it i mean i was i was a liberal toill my brother put me hit to what the corporate media does

it all started with trade b martin like what a bunch of shit that was

and then michael brown what a bunch of shit that was

and you got to hear about racism like like like nothing has went forward

between the races like like it

it's systemic racism which means everything's racist

sick and tired of hearing his shit

and my brother proved to me

i mean n b c doctor

the nine one one called it zimerman me

that's clear they admitted it

they fired two under

but guess what this is how the news works and david knows

once you get someone to make an emotional judgment

a nuclear bomb of truth

isn't going to make that person change their opinion

very few people

what what because they don't want tomit they were due

and this is how the news works

and this is how they brainwashed

it's just read it's sick

that

that's kind of interesting

so let me just make sure i heard you correctly

so once someone makes an emotional judgment

no man of truth is going to change their mind

for the most part did

oh shit teko thank you so much man

appreciate you

s ches you a lot

thanks man

thank you so much

sure

so we'd some hyperbolic bullshit

report an absolute lie

and then the truth comes out a few days later and people already made a judgment on it

for the most part human need

wow how dos your discord dms popp off

how the forarth do you know there

five

how do you know

things are not goning to go back

the initial motion motional judgment that they made

that's ust

you'd be on

y are not my notifications those are dr kse

was't even mine

the're not even my notifications

you remember from in the waiting room or i don't

no i don't

i really don't

yh so you se people waiting a pleasure

do you think people who make emotional judgments are aware that they make emotional judgments

sure why wouldt that be

interesting so somebody notionally

you know they they know that

interesting so so you

the african nigerian prince from kuana oh what do

what up

ud giana was on zercas last night

heho's on the panel but

she was

really silent

we debaate iill start crying you'll make fun of me

because i would i nt comment

tuly say like the opposite

like i would say that

you know once what emotions tend to do is cloud your judgment

and most people who make emotional decisions believe

n techo dude i'm tired

i'm too tired

i'm probably going to start gaming

like twenty minutes

soon

the last hour

i think we're going to game

the last hour

we're going to game

maybe

maybe

i'm thinking v r chat

i'm thinking v archaq

that's what i'm thinking

um

could be dark souls could be the ar ch at

we will see

they're behaving rationally

and that the more emotional you become

the more rag on in there

you know what let me ask him

let me ask him

i just asked

do that be hilarious

a de falc in awarus

ational you think you are what do you think about that

maybe not in all circumstances i mean

that

i see

in't

okay

it's just the way i am

its

sure i don't like you lied to i don't like being gasolated

and you're doing it constantly

the media politicians

you're be a lied to all the time

everything's a grip

everything is a

it's not appropriate for twitch yes it is

yeah it is

pretty sure it is

breath

everything

jimm me a couple things so so the second thing is

you know so i'm sort of hearing like do you think it's possible for you to be a victim

all ight

but

i guess anybody could go join a random server yeah

be avict

yeah

why not

and what would that mean to you if you were a victim

would know because

i don't

behaved like a vic

somebody wrongs me i get back a

you know i mean i find a way to get back in them and i generally make it funny and spectac

ok

sems is what i do

and what would it what would it feel like to not get back

or

in what way help me understand that

it's just like an unpaid debt

eah

best way i could describe it like

i got to get back at you

mean i'm not saying the violent but

just asist in may

i got a top it

yes so what what do you think about stuff like forgiveness and compassion

so well

you know i was in a for a while and and they taught me about forgiveness right

then i started

o

investigating different religions and

i heard this rabbi on the t v say

si we believe in

forgiveness to but not like the christians and he said

we believe you gota with toone for something before we forget

that i agree with

christians want you to just

forgive m all the fucker for

just to forgive

now

yu

forgive this should not come

now if you dit somebody wrong

and you're looking to make commands

you got a atone for that shiit before i

and i think that's more reasonable nomin atheist

but you know i do some of the religion this basically it's a philosophy right religion

some of them come up with some pretty good shit

i mean i see

no

no problem with

treat others as you should treat yourselfs

you know what i mean i

i think that's a good thing

you know i just don't believe there's a god i mean you

it' just ridiculous

but you know they do come up with some good shit for human relations

and i'm going to ask you kind of personal question you're ok totally fine and not

answer it if you don't want to

i'll answer anything

have you

i haven't heard my question

but

i

have you forgiven your mom

oh yeah

yeah

help me understand how you did that

well i just grew up and realized that look my mother was madic depressed

the other on on this

she was in psychiatric hospital twice

ian

the woman was a little fucked up

you know w and

she wanted to help me there's no dat a bad

i remember my aunt from scotland said

to sheep my hand

i said something derogatory about my mom

and she sat me down she said jimmy do you realize you're the golden boy

i saed what do you mean

she said w theres problem with your eyes

she wished you rent off to the doctor

every time you were sick she brought you that on

she said that woman wasn't trying to hurt you

she had her own problems

and she went with what she thought would help you

and apparently it didn't

yup

ye

i think i wish they wouldle to put a fucking guitar my heners

i mean i was a very

happy go lucky energetic child but

you know they tried to make me into being hyperactive they got me taken rolan

they had me in a crazy kids school

you know alls fucking stupid shit

you know they should have just gave me something to keep me busy

like if computers were around then

you know i think i would have got into

if streaming was around then

i think you would have become a straight roan then in the early seventies in't think so

yes so jimmy that's so interesting so i'm i'm kind of hearing so what i'm hearing is that your mom really doesn't have anything to atone for

yeah

she was blue look she did her best

she told me

she said jimmy there's no book on hew to raise children

i make mistakes

yeah

don't

h

mother loved me

she was a little nuts and me chose mac depress him

did i miss you

absolutely not

you know

mey you know

and i yet

rest of my family don't forgive their their kind and they're kind of

surprised that i take the tack that i take

my sister said to me one time

she puts you in a case like my sister was threatening to put her in a home right

and my mother was defathely afraid of this

and i got real pissed off my sister i said look

she calls me crye one more time

i'm going to fuck you up

you know what i mean like i'm tired of this shit

she wanted to die in her own home

woman had the right to do that

nothing wrong with her she fell one time

big fucking deal

and my sisterm was like literally terrifying her

and i stuck up for my sister was shocked she said

but she puts you in a cage

i' like she put me in a case for a fucking reason is trying to fuck and help me

you ain't trying to help this

i mean i don't like that shit and she stopped

mm

yeah

fuck that shit

a't going to fuckle my moum

you saund mother was't quite fke

she tried to do the best she could with me

that's what

you know what she told me

un till you're eighteen

i'm going to keep you little wys alive

and you're going to go where the fuck i want you to go

when you're eighteen

you die it's on you

hey it work

i'm fifty eight right

i

now

spt my friend request

oh my god

where is your firinal request

there i accept

oh my god why are you calling me

hello hi

how are you

i

doing great

i love it

what

why did you sit up on your chair when i

when you started talking to me

oh my god because i saw that littles in my are w you started talking okay okay

this is literally coring

what

you're not cringing you're blushing

on night

okay

anyways you know how i asked you if you missed me and you said

absolutely not

yeah

s

all i wanted to say is fukey up

a it's convenience

mom wasn't de

graz

you understand

yeah so what i'm hearing from you um

jimmy is that despite

you know being very upset with your mom when you were growing up what i'm really hearing is that

you kind of really respect her you understand her and certainly understand that she kind of did the best that she could given the circumstances

she had her own struggles and you kind of don't blame her for that

sure that's what the mature person does

does i mean that's that's the only way to look at it when i going to still be angry at this woman she's dead

the womans said

some people continue say angry right

yeah

there's no stop saying i fucking lost

oh my god

iwan okay

i want

p saying i lost

poitt there's no

no percentages

so

are you getting edged

was that even fulking mean

i'm so sick of being so irresistible to everyone

can't i just have some pees

can't i just have some peas

like i get it i'm pretty much the only guy on twitch

that a woman dreams about

but come on

can't i have some pease

jimmy i'm kind of curious you said you kind of got into drugs and kind of criminal activity and stuff as a kid like what's your understanding of how that happened

well i mean

i started committing crimes to get money for drug

ok but what and i don't want to blame it on drugs i mean i did it i own it

but had it not been for drugs and when it committed

to

but i certainly committed to crimes

how do you understand

you know

drug like is

like so like some people think of you know substance use as an addiction

is a disease is an illness think about the whole disease thing was a bunch of bullshit

with the insurance companies law

i'm very well versed on all that shit

one a the history of it no

i

that's just just a word that's all it is

sponshi

whether or not it's a disease who cares

you know like i went to a help me tremendously i went through the twelve steps in two weeks

youw people said it's crazy wllf you study the history of a

did it in days and that's a fact

but it did shake like

like i had a therapist to explain me therapy supposed to kind of shake you up

and then you settle down differently

right

that was the best description i've ever heard that so that's really

it it got me to

it got me to take a look at things specially my mother

and i remember when i went to make amends to my mother

i went to her grave

and i cried like a baby

they never

looked ill of my mother ever again

and i was thirty eight years old

i was hating all my motherlaw was thirty eight years old

and i was a damn fool

but you know i did a four step i did a fifth step i'm right around making amends

you know i mean got my car just start making amend

the man is to fix or repair some

to the best of yourbility and that's what i did

because of these actions

see a lot of these people

they're just told to go to meeting

and listen other people sob stories i'm sorry

it doesn't work

doesn't work

you can't think your way out the bad think

have to act your way ino better thinking

and the actions that i took to twelve steps

help me even today to be more honest to not be deceitful

not that not that i wasn't an honest person but

i

you know that the

to get a real fucking feel what's really going on

rather than that dumb shit that was run ot of my head

they know my mother

hate the world think of the world of me a living it does it

w i think theair

it's not

how you react to it

and it really helped me i mean and then i start

become a sponsor

which was the best thing ever because

and you're helping somebody else you may think about yourself right

that's my oole problem i thought about my fuck itseelf too much

a self center selfish

and helping other people really i really enjoy doing it

m

um jimmy i'm just going to uhh

kind of give david a chance to kind of uh chime in for a second other and and

you know just because i notice he's been listening

thoughtfully and maybe taking notes

dave did you want to add anything or ask any questions or kind of share any thoughts

no i mean i think you know one of the interesting things from a complete lay person's perspective is that

it's

follow my fulk and instagram

i barely have any instal followers dude

instagram dot com slash infra haaz

i only have seventy followers on instuff

i only have seventy followers

i only have seventy followers man

folow my instin now i need fuck in two hundred

to night

do you follow back no

i will not follow you i only follow one person

an instant

m twenty people instantly followed

keep following

welcome to my

amen

forwarded

you know i'm thing about doing

i'm thinking about getting like an i pod or an i phone or an i pad just for instagram

and social media

so i could use my personal on'm here and i could just use the infrared stuff on there

breathing water

follow some big booty bitches on instagram

that's where they all thatt

i didn't know the background of jimmy until today

but

it's exactly

would i imagine tal kid thank you man thank you for the five

he say you

b

that gets him to where he is todaycae i can't upload photos from the browser i would have to have it on my phone

but i have my own instramment

my phone

ate in the sense of

i do see jimmy as a victim myself and it's not about whether he has to quote behave like one but

i i

i and you know in hearing about the situation that he grew up in

it makes a lot of sense to me

that

he kind of behaves in the boisterous way and finds this need to always

ah

as you do regular

have this opposite create another profile in the phone how

you can't do that

the phone only lets you have one profile

does it

gad you the phone only lets you have one profile

my w

mm

s

guys my fucking recommends for my insta

oh my

god

oh my god the shit that gets recommended to me

b

amm

well i got to put this away before i get too excited i'm sorry

this shit is the devil du instagrams the devil

instagram is literally the devil

shit is the devilman

i'm going to tell you the truth

haight on be gone

has on reaction to what he's experiencing and he doesn't feel right unless he does that it's like an onpaid ath

yaga telling me to stop being a kumer

literally the

falking most hypocritical thing i've ever heard

that's literally the most hypocritical thing i've ever falking heard

literally the biggest coomer in our community telling me to stop

am

it's

other viewers of mine

have told me similar stories about how they got to where they are in their thirti'es forty's fifties and so it just it makes a lot of sense everything i'm hearing is putting a lot of pieces into into place

so j only thing i

is the seventies

jimmy i'm going to i'm

i know i know you've got

you want to respond i said ok if i follow up with david a little bitre and're ok

so david when you said this is you know the picture that we're kind of uncovering is exactly in a sense what you're not surprised to hear

help me understand like what do you mean by that why aren't you surprised to hear this how do these dots

how do the dots of what we've learned in the past about jimmy connect

with your understanding of him today

well i mean i think it was very interesting that i've experienced jimmy's

um homophobic and transphobic language right i'll i'll give him the benefit of the doubt he says he he's just making fun but he doesn't hate people that's fine so i'll use the term

i won't say transphobia and homophobia his transphobic and homophobic language

and for ex i've experienced it with jimmy as an adult

and he revealed to day

that he was the recipient of that when he was skipping along and being called

that makes

that that

that makes a lot of sense to me in the sense they literally censored it

they literally censored it

they literally censored it

that

he's weaponizing thank god

the way he felt when that was used against him

against other people that maybe he wants to go

infra you are transphobic and homophobic

and because you are lying and making things up about me you are banned

and that on is actually true

t

what i said is true you actually are b

go after get back at like what did you think you were going to accomplish by saying that

i'm going to keep you in my chat no you're getting bann

bye bye

that's some that's one example of why it's fitting together

mmhm

i

what do you think about that jimmy

i don't know i mean david

i certainly have no vict

you know good and bad things happen to people all the time

and in fact

like what is good and bad

what

what's big

the chinese see

whre's that tom

conflict is

like opportunity

you know i mean if something bad happens you can go

one of two routs right

you can

become a victim

it angry

get depressed

stay that way for years

or you can turn that shit around

make

that means out

elemonad elevens right

h

and how do you how do you think so if someone is kind of a victim as someone is sad and depressed

how do you think

you kind of speaking about what you were sort of mentioning about a and becoming a sponsor and helping other people

how do you help someone like that turn

their lemons in the lemonade

well

the whole thing with that is it's

i guess it's a form of selfishness i mean if you keep thinking about youh you're fucked up situation

and not think about a solution

stuck in the problem

so you' got to get out of yourself somehow

and

in front of me help in usse

yes so you've been a sponsor right so you've helped people who are in the dark space and how did you help them out of that

is helped them with the

the big book ablcoolics anonymous i help them

take them through the twelve steps

and they got it to

it defined it the way

they did and

you know like

they got to experience it the way they did the more they practiced it

more day experience

they got to articulate it

anyway they wanted to i didn't tell them to say

i didn't tell

most of these guys would tell you

when i got sponsors right and believe me he was re these were all well meaning people

they would say

call me every day right

so i call them

they could they'd last about ten minutes because i was

i was

piss off

discuss it

one thing to comfort me

drugs or alcohol

wasn't available anymore

and they lasted about ten minutes right

and they would say

well tell that at a meeting

you'll feel better i never did

i th i never felt better talking about my problems over the

and believe me

i talked about my prompt

and never

no i'm asking i'm asking mikel do all that people

what's that

so i'm hearing that you seem to be talking about when someone else is your sponsor it sounded like you were a sponsor

yeah yeah yeah yeah how did you help other people

oh

what i did was i helped

help them to open their own eyes

had

welcome to

let's place them dark soils

see how good i am at this game

let's play

let's play

let's play some dark sl

i bute we get some blames on dark sol

let's play some dark souls

fvermillion with the ten holy shit tk you so much we do appreciate you

rechate you vermilion

t's do this let's do thiss again i very i literally forgot the controls were going to do a quick reces

i mean i just see to remember the do the controls

oka

that's all

i just got to do their control this i got

skiing is hard

find down ledder

every anyone who leases a bitch by the way hi dragon on

all my flashs are empty by the way

our

literally fok this literally literally folk this weon s worst weapon

get our flashback

that takes a machic

i know what i'm doing okayk wuk

suy's artic ill oh my god there's another

there goes my health oh go

that was all theyre they're just born yeah i don't know where to go

you guys help me what

if the viewership drops i'm gonna puck it endstream

ungrateful as chance i'm trying to get us to eight hours

welcome

i don't have a b r heads itf ill those duws up there for a secret boss sorry du

a versin what that means i mean a secret boss dude the's no secret boss

we have no more flasks

no more flahs why do you ok what's the viewer coning at i see four hundred twenty f w that guys if it's that low i'mj going in the stream gon't want to see play games w am i do is for then

thank you red i i have no u hope

walk the chack

we're doing this shit to me

and it's chat's fault by the way it's all jas f you guys give me bad by w be wak shut the who gives a shit i'm running past everyone get out the way get out

get the pos un away get the pose away

fuking staggers me trying to funk get on myus is there a shortcut i can just make i'm sick of doing the same shit over and over again

oy

fk made kew i could do it this isn't the main path i'm bending the chat your line this is the main i'm not going to fuck itac i know what don't worry i've played this before

been a long time and i'm not fucking stupid wy i is a short cut it's a short cut what is that

hey what's going on

hey i i missed the bonfire where a bonfire shit

rey up

why is it sti wart

leave me alone

there's nothing here there's literally nothing here this sas me this co controler i s fuking got the controller i puking input doesn't work

this falking controller is broken i swear it's broken it wouldn't walking turn control it sok yes see i can't control it why my meedle this is the elite controller is supposed to not give me any problems youly re

reason i got this controller they don't want to fuk problems it's literally fucking broken that's why he ss game i don't do

i'm on installing right now

okay

s

s

to

fucking broken as falking controller piece of shit

the game is fucking broken it's a broken piece of shit fuking game

the falking controller falking

it

balking just i hate when they do this

it balking turns in a direction i can't turn the other way because

if you span the copi in my fucking vanui

it's literally the fucking controller it's literally the controller

everyone spam it was a controller or fifty people get baned

everyone has to say it was the controller or fifty people get banned

right now

saye was the comtroller

if the chat's not going fast enough

it's not going fast enough

the chat is not going fast enough

ok

ok yeah i am using an xbox elite

ise i literally got it

it like you know i don't i don't i want to control that's never going to break

never going to give me promse

and i'll just use this

should it was it a mistake

should i have just gone a normal one

ya i got that

fuckan elite piece of shit

ucking best buy employee was like yeah dude i have one and i use this and i was like oh you use it

he said yeah thiss what i use

and he like convince me to get it

i literally was going to get a normal x box controller and the best buy employee came up said

oh you know

if you're going to use p c you should really use get this elite one it's like a really good deal

he i convinced me i should get it

birmware issues with older games

the ps five controller works better for pc

i'm going to get i only got it for halo though

so i wanted to play halo with the controller you know so i got that's why i got the x box one

i have a psr controller

god what a disgrace honest

what there

yeah best buy falked me over as usual they always falk me over

for you my wife

the elite controllers should work fine with the new halo games

no it wasn't working good for mc c that's the thing

for m c c it was not working good

at all

it was working terribly for mcc

ah

it's too late to exchange

begin preparing for the

and we'd love to have you help with that if you're already registered as an insider thank you

we're blown away by how many people are already interested in helping us test the game

as a heads up though our data shows that a large number of insiders which could include you are not actually fully registered and are mtaken up to time again

fighting

i'm not going to fuck and play this game

because they're not releasing ford yet launch so fu that game

goo up mikes

what a maxes

have you seen the elden ring trailer is there a new one

saw the old one

there's a new one

what's a screenshot

there isn't a new one

thatw the three weeks ago

a couple of days ago

distinct

which is weird

a couple of days ago i was invited to a digital viewing

this guy knows me a zaki

the bevelld and ring

it included new screenshots the opportunity for q and

nine

yeah because sffering is not class

oh my gosh

but

on the sixth of july

the official elden ring website updated with a new description it reads as follows

the golden order has been shattered throughout the lands between demi gods holding shards of the golden ring squabble and make war over the ruins of a perfect realm now abandoned by the golden guidance of the greater will as the echoes of this

cotton flicked thunder in the distance and outcast rive

you know who i think of when i think of this guy

inbite's boyfriend

i just feel like he sounds like this

once their ancestors called the lands between home but the blessed light of grace was lost to their tribe long ago and they were expelled from the kingdom

they are the tarnished and they have returned to claim the elden lordship

promised to them by legend those few inhabitants who are not mad or hostile ling near the broken remnants of cities left behind by the shattering they may have answers for you if you help them

above them all ensconced in legacies bristling with traps secrets and guardians

the demi gods

wpe to legitimately think she's hot

yeah

lords who begin the fok

and as members of a royal and noble family

rule their domains with the unyielding power granted by shads of the elden ring this is

probably all the story we're going to get until games come at the end of august and

combined with everything else it's actually a ton to go over so

i've shattered it all inm i don't have enough

memory for this

my storage space in my head is filled up

you know the worst thing is when i go deep diving learning about the lore of something

because

i'm literally filling my fok in

s is d drive in my head with useless made up information

it's literally just a completely fake world

and i like know more about it

one

do you why do you remember all your dreams then

is that deiight

that's on middle gear solid series

mm

not that good

okay

it's ok

it's not horrible

we are probably going to watch this tomorrow but

a mod only this one checks out as good

so her her name is jim bob right h and um j e m b o b that's filming was it that's film me film me o okay yeah se over here okay

the tent next to that is where he stayed he had a blue car and he ran uh two people over one of whom died

bra oxes ain't nothing going on

what's going on

there's nothing happening

braight

tell me where the big boody bitch is at i'll go there

i got no reason to leave my bar

i got no reason to get out of the house

i got no reason

welcome to my war

tima

one to hickory degree do do

the dream she had clung to so desperately

ok smile and say cheeseburger

it is often pointed out that americans themselves

is the center of the universe

and when you look at the story

we've been told all our lives

it's not hard to see

why

most people living in the developed world today grew up consuming american media in one form or another

more than anything else america's greatest export to the world

his culture

but some cultures are too complex to be consumed

some

hed it's

what's your name again

the world

his culture

but some cultures are too win peaks complex to be

when beeks

jamie

jamie

it's jamie

consume

some stories too important to be packaged

and soul

over the decades the endless stream of american media seems to blend together

following a similar

we should save this for tomorrow

whn i say this

but when people are actually here

thk

right ond gentleman

see

your you don't mejt i ma your for the a sens of

i'm never gonna say i'm sorry i'm sry

geno thank you

thank you really ad

si

thank you god ah so close

a pucket oh right

thank you anonymous gift they we viewers set up a custom game maybe

h

a the talking red hazard

thirty seconds remaining ten seconds remaining

you can do what you want to just that day do

i don't even know the song watch belo

no someone

oh god we

in the fre

wvery rais his rthern a day coing i don't bomb taken

seem to fak let

i wasfre i'm so proud but they faded after

be in place i o to be if i have hoe i will give you just see what is going on

a ya ar and the

i have th and ye thinking

place infiltration

infiltration infiltration inil graation in filtration infiltration infiltration infiltration

and the i he came

eky st eky stat

wayway away awayay

look n yah yeahy

i can't kill the enemy team at least i can kill these guys it's so easy what

you don't know that's what cose to joathan

sensitive as beitches so sensitive

thank you te oh shit techo appreciate you man thank you

break break break break break break break break break break break break break br brak bright break break break break break brak break break break bak break break break brk brk brak

e

seems to thing

to

thingers ah

bre one

for every wie

oh

t

oh

sean so bran

but every ding

apter down

there j

thankay town

okay guys

i'm going to watch the last episode of money hie

and then go to bed

but thank you guys for giving me so many viewers

that i can impress this this person with

thank you guys

i'm just gettinghunger

ll right buggers