INFRARED - #6 ft. Xiangyu

hello

hello everyone what's up guys

hello um so

this is just a second

and we should be live right now

hello everyone uh guys

really sorry for the tech

um tech issue that we've been suffering

um so let's see who are there

uh well lots of people there how many

people are watching right now

i think 31 31

yeah all right we can get more as we go

so this is my first live show we have a

very special guest

today um

a marxist leninist rapper

and he has very he always have the best

take on twitter

um everyone say hi hello

all righty um so

tell us a little bit about yourself um

so how did you

came to be where you are right now um

where you're coming from

so um i guess you mean like my political

development

yes yes or in general in general

so um hmm i guess

i grew up in america but i've always

been like you know

i've always felt connected with my

chinese identity

especially since when i was growing up i

spent a lot of time in taiwan

and like um before i started school it

would be months at a time

and then after that it was like

almost every summer i would spend my

time there

so i was always very i was never removed

from

my cultural roots like um you know it

happens with some people

but another thing is i guess

growing up you know if you're from an

immigrant family then you

know like english is not your first

language and when you're first growing

up your your friend group will be like

your um

your parents kids i mean your parents

friends kids

and you know like in that in that sort

of situation you know like we would be

talking to each other in chinese but

um after after a while like when we've

all started going to school

like you know like with me it's like if

i'm used to talking to somebody in one

language

then i'll default to that language

doesn't matter what other languages they

speak even if we both speak other

languages that you know

we both understand but i

realized like to them like chinese

seemed like a very uncool

thing to speak and it's like um they

just kind of wanted to move themselves

distance themselves from it

i guess the political development aspect

i mean so that was like

i guess one of the symptoms of

imperialism that i noticed

because i mean it's one thing to um you

know adapt to the language of your

surrounding it's another to just kind of

totally look down upon like

you know your own culture and language

that's not

i mean it's normal but it shouldn't be

normal you know it's it's a symptom of

imperialism and white supremacy because

you go to like i noticed like

if when you go to taiwan why is it that

over there

oh knowing english is very cool but

in america it's like knowing english is

cool but knowing other languages is not

necessarily cool

so it's like um you know you notice

these things and you start wondering

why so then i guess to really understand

why

i guess i had to start studying um you

know

history of like my my background and

also just talking to parents and

elders and stuff like that just kind of

sort of piecing things together

and um i was never

i was never really like a radical

liberal liberal

i've always i mean but i've always um

kind of sympathize with the

underdog and i've also noticed that um i

don't know i just felt that

a lot of times the the narrative that i

was being told wasn't the truth i guess

growing up in an immigrant family

it's not unusual or not even just the

immigrant family even just a minority

family

um you're used to hearing sort of like

one mainstream narrative but then you

but then like you also like hear this

sort of other narrative like among

your own community like um

i don't know ezra how long i don't know

how long you've been in america but

yeah uh my experience is a little bit

different because um

i was raised in mainland china um

but it's interesting that you brought up

that

english is very valued in a non-english

major non-english speaking native

speaking country

in china however you know that people

learn english from a very young age

students i went to a international

school

so they really really emphasize on

english but even in general even go to

logos or at least in

the coastal cities of shanghai or the

likes

uh they will teach you english and um

and it's a symptom of the um

global hegemonic status symbol yeah and

and the relationship between the center

and the periphery right like

you have to learn everyone in the

periphery at the periphery in order to

be successful has to learn the english

language is the language of the world in

a sense

but i think what's ironic is that um

for china it has become its weakness its

supposed weaknesses of being at the

periphery

has become a strength of its own because

many more chinese understand english

proportionally speaking and absolutely

then

americans understand chinese

right i think um i think trump during

his

his um campaign this year says something

along the line

says something like if i don't win you

are

all learning chinese

and that's because because as china

becomes more and more

important the chinese language becomes

more important in the world but

currently that's not the case but it's

interesting to think about this dynamic

because well people

are supposedly marginalized so those

marginalized

in terms getting a different kind of

strength

through their marginalization through

their weakness this is a very

interesting dialectical reversal

and i think another thing is it is

important to learn english because

as long as imperialism exists you know

you have to

i mean not everybody has to but but all

um

all peoples throughout the world like

among like their nationalities and

whatever they need to have people who

understand the imperialist language just

you know to

just to function in this world or to

even defeat imperialism

at some kind of that's kind of why when

i went to the dprk

for example like they they talked about

how english education is important

because

we need to understand the imperialist

language and because um

like things like science and stuff are

dominated by you know

imperialism exists you can't just switch

it away so they acknowledge his

existence and they're like if we

if we want to um keep up with um

with the world's developments and stuff

then we need to have on people who

are proficient in the language but um i

guess

do you want me to speak more of more on

my political development um

yeah i think because you identify as a

marxist leninist and we here at the

infrareds

do too but i think um the term

marxist land is like many political

labels

originated from the 20th centuries and

means a lot of different things

to different people all right so

what is your uh ideology marxist

leninism means to you right now

and how do you think uh marxism today

in the 21st century in the context

of uh the west for example in america

differentiated from its original

context in russia in

china in vietnam etc

that's a very good question i think um

the thing about marxism leninism is it's

always

it's it's never been a dogma

right because um dogmatism can

lead to revisionism like opportunism and

that sort of stuff like you see

i'm like there's this sort of idea among

people who don't study marxism leninism

who think

oh if you're a marxist-leninist that

means you want to replicate

everything that's happened in the soviet

union or in china and then just

copy-paste it and

apply it to different societies right

there is that sort of misconception but

um

marxism leninism is um basically you

have marxism right

marxism is kind of like you have what is

it that

i can't summarize it right now it's like

what the german ideology like you have

dialectics

and then you have um like marxian

economics

and you have all that stuff and um

you're basically calling for

um it's the study of why there is you

know

like how capitalism works and why there

is a state

for example like states arose not it's

not like it's not because states arose

first and then classes exist

it's the other way around so it's um a

huge aspect of marxism marxism leninism

is dialectical materialism which is

um you um as opposed to idealism

idealism is more like um

you think of something and then things

are because

of how you interpret them there's like

there's no objective truth whereas

dialectical materialism is there we live

in an objective world we live in a

material reality our thoughts

are a reflection of that and yeah

there's no way to like

totally know everything but the more you

study the objective world the closer you

reach the truth

would you agree with that yeah

definitely um

i think it's very interesting to

contrast these

understanding of um marxism leninism

and specifically the dialectical

materialism

with how not just marxism but

left-wing politics in general is

philosophy in the united states

or in the west in general today because

i don't know about you but for uh

in my impression people here in the u.s

they to put it shortly they don't

understand

uh dialectical materialist and they

don't they don't tend to have the sense

of it when they

approach a political ideology or whether

it's marxism

anarchism or any other socialism

they think is is they think is uh

it's a sect of axiom a sense of like you

say the dogma

they think oh this is what they did this

is what socialism mean this is how they

defined

as it is in a specific context

and therefore we should try to repeat

that in the united states

and bring that um

in a completely different context right

i think um

it's interesting because starting from

lenin and

also with maul their definition of

marxism

was at that time very different and uh

unorthodox compared to the mainstream

marxism right

linen was under lots of fire for his uh

marxism and mao certainly was um he was

the first person

who really emphasized the revolutionary

potential of the peasantry

as a ex as opposed to

you know just the industrial

proletariats um he

emphasized the other parts of the

equation

i think that's important because um

because of the way china developed it

was a

it was a semi-feudal semi-colony

capitalism couldn't have

developed the way it developed in

western europe where they weren't

semi-feudal semi-colonies

you know yeah but china was just forced

into an existing world order

that it had no that it didn't really

take part in

forming and i had to navigate through

that and when when that happens you know

the classes aren't going to develop um

as

like this sort of predetermined path you

know oh you're gonna this feudalism is

gonna end and the bourgeoisie is gonna

write

it's because the bourgeoisie i mean okay

you have the national bourgeoisie but

you also have the

compradors and the imperialists right

yeah yeah

yeah and the the the national

bourgeoisie is definitely not going to

overpower the imperialist bourgeoisie

in that sort of context and um i think

with linen he was under fire because um

you know the second international like

bernstein kowski and all those

opportunists

what they did was they took they took

marx right they looked at him like they

almost like a religion they're like oh

mark said that revolution would first

happen

and the industrialized um advanced

capitalist countries

but the thing is karl marx when karl

marx was alive

he did not get to see a monopoly

capitalism

develop fully to its highest stage

right so he couldn't have him so he made

that sort of prediction based on

you know what he saw and what he knew he

didn't say oh it's definitely going to

happen

so lennon was actually staying true to

the

um the spirit of marxism which is

um you seek truth from facts this is

joseph yeah

marx didn't say that but that's

basically um that's basically what

dialectical materialism is and he

analyzed okay

now we're in a new situation new

situations call for new analyses

and they call for new strategies and new

tactics so

you know he got a lot of fire because he

went against the second international

and their um what i like to call

dogmatal

dogmatal revisionism you know some

people think oh revisionism is just like

you make up a new bullshit no no

if you're overly dogmatic it becomes

revisionism

because you don't look at the context of

where those predecessors made their

analyses and you just really want to

follow them through but you're in a

different world

and by doing that you become a

revisionist

yeah i think it's very interesting to

think of our condition today

i see chris morlock says western

thoughts claims objectivity

or in actuality being the definition of

subjectivity

i think there's a lot of truth to it

because

first of all it's interesting that

historically as we know the

in the 20th century all the socialist

revolution began

not seeing the quote unquote advanced

capitalist society but in countries like

russia and country and china like you

said who are

a few dollars semi-feudal and um

and it's compared to that condition to

the

united states today so our position

is that the dialectics

that's what's going on between the

feudal peasantry and the industrial

workers

that's uh we've seen in 20th century

europe and asia

is still going on it's still ongoing

even in the united states

today but because the material condition

different

is changing the the form that this takes

is different

for example um i think we can talk about

the um the american left they emphasized

today they emphasized um uh

what is comparable to the industrial

proletariats in the 20th century the

people in the urban center right

largely from immigrants and

immigrants background who did not have a

who does not have a sense of identity

this with the american

american whatever american identity is

and this process is ongoing this sort of

constant disruptive process of

capitalism

meanwhile in the countryside

in the heartland of the united states

you have people

who are not peasants in the strict sense

who are no former industrial workers

former um um

people who are previously considered as

you know the industrial

they're not the ones who are being left

behind they're the ones who are

behind in development because the the

united states despite being the global

hegemon the internal development

is actually really behind to certain um

what they call the form of asiatic

capitalism um

and i think the it's interesting there's

this

contradiction today between peasants and

workers is still very real today it's

just

but it's only taking a different form

so what what do what do you think about

this what do you think is the um

biggest weakness of the american left

when confronting the

um the present condition

in your experience there's too many

things to talk about

yeah yeah i i really don't i really

don't know where to begin i mean i'm not

so

like um i'm not going to front and say

that i'm like some sort of like

revolutionary who has like

gotten a lot of stuff done so it's like

so it's like

yeah so so it's like do we have the

answers

i don't know we we have we have you know

certain guides to actions we have

inspiration from which we can draw but i

mean

theory comes from practice but um i do

think

if you want to really um something

that's very

i guess something that's more general

is i do think that

what is called the left today is

very petty bourgeois minded

would you agree yeah definitely it's um

a lot of it is um because you know with

them

i guess this really has to go to if we

want to talk about it we had to talk

about some of the culture

the cultural um programs of the cia the

state department that happened

in the last century because what makes

social

um social movements powerful what's

something in common with um

let's say like um the

the chinese revolution the russian

revolution the

the um you know the vietnamese

revolution the etc etc

it's um you have the

intellectuals right who are you know the

leftist intellectuals

not just like any intellectual but they

are um

connected with the masses basically it's

like um

what many revolutionaries have said

these sort of um communist intellectuals

had to be proletarianized and then the

proletariats the peasants they have to

be intellectualized

right but the um the way that the new

left was kind of synthesized

by um these cultural programs is it it

kind of divorced them

from the workers and you know that's

when you also had this sort of a

neoconservative

like the neocon movement where they like

kind of like

populism got like got them just

hijacked by the right so you you got rid

of the left populism you

replace it with right populism and like

the masses especially the white masses

they're just kind of drawn to reaction

and it's not going to benefit them like

it'll benefit them in some ways but it

doesn't

get rid of the root causes of why

they're put in a um

unfavorable position and then you have

these sort of um

intellectuals like these college campus

radicals

who um you know they're kind of if if

you're divorced from the masses

then um you can have all the right ideas

but you're they're never going to

be transformed into action and if you're

kind of not grounded in the masses

you're not going to really

be able to go forward i think um

and then also in any in many in any

revolution you know

there's two aspects there is the aspect

of tearing

the old reactionary order down yeah and

then there's the second aspect of

constructing something new

there's something there's a destructive

aspect but the destruction is done for

the purpose of construction

when you agree and um most people like

let's say you go to the russian

revolution

what were the what were the masses

promised peace land and bread

um in the in in the world in the um the

world war why because um

they were sick of being sent over abroad

to fight for the capitalists and to die

they they

wanted stability at the end of the day

what they wanted was stability

yes whereas um you know you had some

people like um leon trotsky

who just kind of wanted to see the world

burn

exactly right so then on this these were

these these these kind of trends they

had to be

um they had to be um kind of

reconciled and you had to take aspects

from both they have to keep each other

in check it's kind of like

for lack of a better term like the yin

and the yang of revolution

definitely you know that you if you

divorce them that's why

nowadays you know you have the aspect

that's seeking stability but then the

bourgeoisie has them controlled and

they're like okay if you want stability

this is what you do this is

this is conservatism and this is um you

know

you don't want you want to um return

back to the old days

when you had um a nice um

nice job like a nice factory job at gm

where you could um afford a house you

could have a

like um you know a husband or wife you

have them two

like two kids and a dog and two cars

a front yard you know that sort of stuff

the american

the american dream basically and then um

so you have them divorced from the

from from the left and then you see

you entice them with you know they sort

of make america great again right

yes yes so then that's that's where this

whole trumpism thing comes from now and

then you

and then you tell the left okay you know

what screw the screw the stability part

just keep on

just keep on pushing for stuff that like

you know wanting to see the world burn

then you have like ultra leftism you

have like social democracy you have like

all sorts of um just all sorts of things

that

aren't that

people aren't drawn to except for other

you know

angry disillusioned youth and

their anger is valid their anger is very

justified we live in a very unjust

society but it's um part of part of the

cia's cultural programs is okay we're

not going to get rid of this anger

because we know capitalism exists

imperialism exists white supremacy

exists all this shit exists

but what we can do is we can channel the

energy to somewhere where it's not

going to change anything you know

yeah yeah i think that's the main

problem with the western left yeah i

think

we all here agree completely and uh

henry

and jorge can add to that later

everybody say hi to jorge

oh by the way is my volume okay right

now some people saying that um

i need to turn up my volume

um what about me do i need to turn mine

up

uh they didn't say anything about that i

assume you are fine but so okay i agree

completely

with what you have said um and the

american

left today and this is a bit of my

personal experience when i

um moved to america that's almost like

almost eight years ago

i wasn't political right i was just some

random chinese kid in the united states

and as i was getting into leftist

politics

i was very initially i was very

surprised i was i find this very

familiar because the first

person growing up in china but i also

but even in

non-socialist um non-western country

you have some familiarity with what

revolutionary politics represents

or even just progressive politics

represents um because once you come to

america

you feel like something completely

different you have like uh

leftists who i feel like who are much

more interested

in feeling good about themselves

in trying to be right

uh trying to have all the best health

takes in the world

rather than trying to form a concrete

uh relationship with the people um which

is

very strange because with uh maul

which many left is proposed to even

western left his proportion

to respect he emphasized

uh the necessity of of the mast line of

um connecting with the people

that's no matter how smart you think you

are how much theory you have read

uh you're nothing without the the people

as the base

and um and can i add to something about

mal

go ahead this whole thing about change

and um

leading revolution and dealing with the

masses with their um

with their positivity and their

imperfections and dealing with social

ills is

you um being children you save the

patient by curing the disease but

i i see a lot of um like

um people who just seem to believe that

oh the

the person is defined by the disease so

curing the disease just means totally

disregarding and just pushing away that

person

would you agree yes and what about

youtube do you have anything to add with

your experience

uh yeah i feel like the west western

left has a very strong

purity complex and you see it also with

like

their approach towards history where

they just kind of want to um you know

abolish you know their own history

and their own uh historical roots or

historical figures

for not fitting into you know um the

contemporary moral standards

uh yeah yeah it's it's very

individualistic to it it's almost like

this

um like very individualistic mindset

where they have to keep themselves like

appear and clean of the of reality and

just how the world is

as opposed to you know getting their

hands dirty and uh

really dipping their hands into into the

water could i add to something about

that

go ahead you talked about abolishing

historical figures and you know certain

historical figures like christopher

columbus and stuff yeah they shouldn't

be upheld anymore but there's one

problem

okay i'm all for tearing down the

statues whatever

but one problem is okay you tear down

the statues what do you replace them

with

because people of all um cultures

they want to be able to identify with

you know

these sorts of figures that they feel

define their own roots

you know we all want to have like being

belonging to

a group a cultural group like is very

important to everybody

that's why um that's why identity stuff

is very um

is very powerful because at the end of

the day you know this is very um

it's this sort of stuff is sacred to

every individual but it's like

when we when we decide okay we're going

to chair down okay

like okay fuck fuck christopher columbus

fuck george washington fuck thomas

jefferson okay this is good this is good

i'm totally for that but um

if you're doing it in a way where people

where the masses

don't understand why they're bad they'll

feel that oh

you're also abolishing them you're

attacking you're not

exactly yes and if you're not replacing

those um columbus statues

with i don't know i don't i don't know

what what what kind of mouths don't

statues you might have a lot of

explaining to do if you want to put a

mauso don't statue like

people aren't just going to warm up to

that right away but um

but you know um i mean you look at you

look at um

germany you know when east germany

denazified

what what happened um all of the nazi

figures that got destroyed they were

replaced with you know

ernst alderman and all of the other i

don't know if i pronounce his name right

sorry um

if to german listeners but um you know

all of those um anti-fascist and

revolutionary figures of their own

of their country's history and you know

if you want to get rid of christopher

columbus statues that's great but you

also need to start pushing

you know historical figures of um that

have existed

in this country for example like um huey

newton or

john brown fred hampton or um martin

luther king jr martin luther king jr

is already like but but he's been very

um he's been very um

his revolutionary content's been

divorced from

the name they've kind of whitewashed him

but you know what i mean right you need

to um

have new people that new figures that

people can identify with otherwise

it's just um i don't know i mean these

same people are the ones who

like you also have these pseudo-leftists

who are very who were very um

very cultish about um rbg

right but then they're the same people

who make fun of

um the koreans north korea specifically

for

you know upholding and greatly deeply

admiring you know kim il-sung kim

jong-il

which is um like why it's why do they

but but why is that sort of culture

there

i mean you don't have to agree with it

but um part of what i see is when i when

i was terrorism

it feels good to um it's not worship but

you know what i mean like to

collectively

like kind of uphold the same figure and

to feel like you belong to a

like a greater family than like your own

family you know

yeah a sense of belonging people take

comfort in that that's why i'm

absent of that sort of stuff in the west

that's why um

subcultures are so um are such a big

deal i mean subcultures exist everywhere

in the world but i mean

ezra you grew up in um you grew up in

shanghai um

you could you can you could say that

subculture is there they exist but they

aren't as

um aren't are as i'm sacred to an

individual's identity

when compared to the us correct yes

sorry there's a problem with the screen

i'm gonna

fix this right now um

see

yeah you know uh mentioning the rbg

thing is

very recently like in the last few years

um it seems like our pilot like

worship of politicians has reached like

uh kind of unheard of heights

um and there's a very there's a very

like bland

uh aesthetic behind it you know there's

kind of a static of just like uh

almost like pure law that's what i think

of when i see like you know those

pictures of rbgs like

worship of like you know just like this

kind of empty bland uh

almost like uh aesthetically unpleasing

uh lawfulness uh

exactly but then like these same people

will mock

you know other countries for having

their sort of like kind of

cult of personality and it's like

i it's but it does tell us something it

does show that what i said about you

know okay you can take you can get rid

of certain figures but then you have to

replace them with someone revolutionary

for people to

follow otherwise you're creating a power

void and

if you aren't organized enough to fill

that void with something like you know

progressive and revolutionary for people

to move forward

you know power in these situations okay

like whoever is best positioned to fill

a power

or fill any vacuum will fill it that's

why

like trumpism like was on the rise

just because of um you know

i don't know where i was going with that

i know where i was going but i can't put

it into words but um

yeah it's taking it's taking advantage

of like the basic

psychological needs of people you know

you don't have to offer them um

as a communist you should offer them

solutions but i mean if if you're just

an opportunist and you want to um

like take power you don't have to offer

them tangible solutions you just need to

give them like a

you just need to make them feel like

they matter that's what that's what

trump did with um with a lot of his

supporters

he didn't do shit for them but i think

it goes back to what you said earlier

people really just

want uh stability and like this ability

to return to

um some kind of like normal uh you know

decent

life and that's also true culturally you

know being grounded in a in a culture

yes exactly so i think um what the

western left really needs to

um do is realize these things and then

think okay how can we

work our strategy to take these

realities into account

because i think once you take these

realities into account and you actually

do something about it

then you'll have a powerful left and

here's

here's the complicated thing about

american culture though is that

um lately i'm realizing that it's it's

almost kind of hard to pin down like um

a singular um american culture because

like on the one hand

um you say for example you have you have

black culture

right and you have a black nation inside

of the us then on the other hand

you have like you know kind of like

southern or not even just southern but

like rural

uh white culture you know that's

obviously very embodied by

um uh like the maga movement um

and whatnot and i think maybe i mean if

there was like an official

american culture maybe that would be the

closest thing to it but then on the

other hand

um you have the strange things going on

like um

kind of in cities but also maybe even

more so in suburbs where

you have this kind of like bland

universe universalism

uh that obliterates all kind of like

cultural particularity

or culture goes to die yeah yeah exactly

yeah yeah yeah

um and so you have this kind of weird uh

dynamic going on culturally

um in america

you know what i realized though when you

when you talk about that sort of like

the bland like anywhere usa suburbs

when you're part of that you you really

feel i know because i grew up in the

suburbs it's um

that's why like my um like you know

chinese identity is so important to me

just because like what do i have besides

that

you know when when you're in suburbia

like that's why like especially with

like suburban youth

you know middle cla like suburban youth

like from the middle classes

like especially like the white kids why

are they

why are they like so into subcultures

like you know the whole way like a lot

of them go through like the emo phase or

like the punk

the punk phase and stuff it's because

they're longing for that sort of feeling

of belonging

that's that's the that's the thing

that's missing and um when you don't

when that um sort of innate desire is

left unfulfilled it leaves you

very vulnerable and easy to

um manipulate and the i think the

bourgeoisie is very aware of that

right yeah yeah insecure people are much

easier to manipulate and control

and um roll over right and then you say

like western left

especially americas only have

destruction they only have things that

this stable

that's destabilized right they say no

you're this and this is wrong you're

this is a privilege your history is

wrong

your very sense of identity is

constantly being challenged

constantly being destroyed um

to the point that you know the very um

the very meaning of being a person of it

being

human is uh it's always being disrupted

so you always have leftists just as

you know you're not pure enough like

that's why the conservatives

really take advantage of the cultural

war cultural warfare

in the united states they're saying oh

no

you know the left and i think they are

right because as far as the current

american left

goals you are always um

they are always trying to destroy who

you are they are the ones who want to

attack you they are the one who

um wants anything to attack you yeah

yeah

they want to destroy the family um

you know they're associated with the

pedophiles or something

but but i think on some level there's

great truth to that because

because from where i'm from um

you know as even when before i was

political

um and

the chinese revolutions gives people a

sense of a new identity you know

you know people know for example it's

always

denigrated by liberals as being

nationalists the most foreign

nationalists but

this is this you know it was a contin

it's a continuity of traditional chinese

culture but also a break from it

yeah but also break from it and you know

china is not just a nation states

and also you know this

is this is a new this is what revolution

is uh

revolution is not just an abolishment of

anything just destroy anything

you can see every revolution there's a

sense of

a new identity that's in some in some

way new but

in other ways a continuity of the past

um so right now there's only destruction

there's no construction of any kind

um i think caleb melvin talked a little

bit about this

in some of his videos but um

and it's becoming so bad

to the point that um even being

human uh is being challenged

is something that the left not take for

granted these days

what do you think about that i think

it's perfectly true

and um i guess that goes into another

problem of um

the western left not really just the

western left but

um just kind of um

especially like people from like

americans from a more middle class

background like i've we talked about it

privately like the

and like kind of the lack of um

ability to um turn you know

children literally means um to be a

person it's kind of like think about

shit

hey guys

all right all right are we all

back

sorry about that i think our guest isn't

back

yet but uh everyone from the group seems

to be here

so while he's

what we are waiting for him um

jorge do you see do you have anything to

add um

on the issue of soaring

i think that guy come here only to

accomplish what

oh sorry about that

this is okay so is yours on our end

i don't know what i'm sorry about it

wasn't my fault no it's our fault

um

um so um as i was saying jewelry

literally means them to be a human but

think about how in english shows the

expression be a man

but that's kind of patriarchal nowadays

because it's kind of you know like

you know you know what i mean but think

about that expression and

it implies them you know just knowing

how to interact with people and

treat people with respect and you know

be responsible and all that stuff but

just ungendered that's kind of what

dwarin

is and i think i feel like um among the

western left

at least with them through my experience

and my interactions with people

there there seems to be just that seems

to be missing there's a lot of

there's a lot of pettiness you know some

people will take personal vendettas

and then find reasons to just carry out

character assassinations um

against other people who haven't really

done anything bad other than like

because you don't like them

for example yeah i think um

like oh i know a really good example i

used to um before i moved to taiwan

i'm back in the us that before i moved

to taiwan i was on part of an

organization

and this one kid really didn't like me

so you know what he did he went around

telling everybody that

he believes i was a cop and that i was

infiltrating

just because he didn't like me i think

it was because um he had a bad

experience

um with um a chinese man

like earlier on in his life and i think

there was an aspect of racism i think

that's

i think that's what happened but um

anyways he ended up like

joining the military so it's like yeah

you're gonna you're gonna cop jack at me

and then you're gonna join the military

despite

like knowing full well what imperialism

and all that stuff is go fuck yourself

there's a lot of that going on you know

you when you when you work with people

you don't have to like them but you have

you should

you should know how to um dwarven

basically

and um for example i was i was talking

about i was talking to somebody once and

um

she was saying um

we were talking about just backwards

ideas and stuff and she said i don't

care

like even if you are from like a third

world country

that's like super catholic um

if you are homophobic you're a terrible

person and you know i agree homophobia

is very bad

but if you're from a third world country

and you're like a

from a rural area and like because it's

like super catholic and you're just not

very exposed to these things

you're going to have those backwards

ideas and the um the thing is

um unless somebody proves like

unwilling to learn and correct their

ideas and um

you know you don't just dismiss them

right off the bat and say oh you're

terrible because you know what

like with that sort of attitude it is a

it isn't a way on

classes because you're assuming that

everybody has had the same education

that you've had

at the same time like you know um we

shouldn't assume that just because um

people aren't as educated that they're

they're not capable of learning but

we have to work with people with their

imperfections and deal i mean it's

it's different for an individual to have

like some backwards ideas

than from like to like actually like

actively

spreading those ideas you know like

there is a difference

i i know if i don't make that

clarification somebody's going to read

between lines that aren't there and then

say that oh i'm making excuses for

you know i'm making excuses for like

just reactionaries no that's not the

case we live in a reactionary society

and the dominant ideology is reactionary

so

just by virtue of living in this society

we're going

all of us without exception will have

some reactionary ideas and

as the vanguard what we're supposed to

do is we're supposed to actively combat

it and then guide people along into

you know fighting their reaction that

the reaction that they've internalized

right um a lot of the western left is

just um

you know just people coming making these

realizations

for themselves and then going out and

acting superior to everyone because they

figured

they figured these things out earlier

than other people

right but i think if they are just

merely being arrogant right they just

said you're stupid

i've read this i've noticed i'm

enlightened i'm beyond

uh your concern over your national

identity i'm beyond

your concern about your family or your

stability in your life

if it's only just that then at least

that would be annoying but manageable

but

i think what's happening in the united

states that there is not only not a

real left the left that

current as is currently exists is really

just

um almost like the the institutional

laptop

of the ruling classes of the american

empire because what they are doing is

because they don't have actual power by

themselves

so what they're doing is they can attack

people

for their supposed moral faults and

these people

are um as if these people didn't have

never had bad ideas before yeah yeah

exactly but not only they attack you

the power that supports these leftists

to even attack them

is the ruling power it's the

establishments right like that's why

um when they for example you know

when bernie sanders campaign back in

2016 and then you know he did

have lots of popular supports were

dissatisfied with the establishment

and um you know you have certain some of

the people um

using leftist language attacking them

for not being i don't know

sexist or chavaness of some kind

but what gives them the power to

criticize morally you cannot

moral criticism is not just you need

power to do that

you know they they are doing this from

the position of the

um imperial establishments if you may

and think of a sort of culture of um

just

like espousing right thinking this sort

of hyper individualistic virtue

signaling

was actively um promoted by you know the

cultural programs of the cia that i

talked about like

congress of cultural freedom because as

we can see

it keeps it keeps the masses fractured

you know no matter i think um what's

very important when we um

delve into politics is as with

everything

when we when we um deal with anything

one question we need to ask is

is this good or bad for the people does

this help the people

that's why i feel like um this sort of

um the the um

a lot of westerners are just very

adverse

to critical thinking that's why that's

why on buzzfeed and like

tumblr that's why the buzzfeed and

tumblr um pseudo left was so popular

because um

you don't have to critically think you

just have like these sort of like it's

like kind of

not ten commandments like thousand

commandments where like everything just

has like a

everything is a blanket rule you know if

if you

are if you are um you know this identity

then you are automatically this

if you are this then you there's

if you um if you can check all the boxes

of marginalized groups

then it is physically impossible for you

to be reactionary and everyone should

listen to you i'm not saying people

shouldn't listen to these voices by the

way i'm just saying um that's not

that's not very material that's very

idealistic because um with

within any group there's going to be

there's going to be reactionaries but um

you know there is

you have to admit there is that line of

thinking in the west and i think

before you judge anyone

uh or any mass to be reactionary or not

you have to be with the mass in the

first place like you say

you have to not only slaughter in or be

a be a man on the

individual level you have to um

be humans and with other humans right

you have to you

almost have to begin with a populist

mindset

before you talk about progressive change

before you talk about

i don't know revolution or something

even more crazier than that

um and in addition to that

um you you cannot

speak you cannot criticize you cannot

attack them before you adopt this

position

like i'm not just saying you're

pretending to have this word but

actually having a roots in your

community

actually have a basis and you have to

speak the language

that you know people understand i think

in america

um lots of the language are leftist

users are extremely alien to say the

leaks

i think the most egregious example um

i'm not allowed to know but like um i

know

you know for example like a latin knicks

with an x um

which is not pronounceable oh you're

gonna you're gonna get so much shit for

saying this

well you're not really familiar with our

stream

this is probably by far our most polite

and nice stream that we ever had

um um

he doesn't know yeah you know i guess

that means um

ezra when we um when we go to um

spanish-speaking countries we're no

longer chinos where chinks

[Laughter]

yeah but with an x but x is not

pronounceable in spanish and

it's i think some services like only

seven percent or so latino people are

actually use that term

the thing is i identify with these terms

these yes very angle

english based institutional people in

the university try to say you have to

use this term

um and this causes lots of distrust and

legitimately so like um in latin america

actually if you want to be

gender neutral they prefer um instead of

latino or latina they say latina

like with an e yeah i've heard of that

one

um yeah but even so you know peop

the the masses the ordinary people they

start using a certain language and you

have to begin from their language

um just that's not by the way to the

audience that doesn't mean okay we're

going to start saying terrible things

and

throw around races and like homophobic

slurs no that's not what we mean

like no we're not going to be doing that

no no no

i i but you know i literally was a you

know

like a discord server of supposedly um

uh her left circle this is not known

that's pro china and

ml or some some kind and they were like

forbidding people for using the word

stupid because they think

the term stupidity was disabled yeah

yeah

you know you go to china like they're

pro china right yes

they don't get bullied so hard no no no

no

the funny thing is like in the channel

you have actual chinese people like me

um or chin or people who grew up

actually speaking chinese language and

everybody say how

well how stupid this thing is you know

like

language cannot function with all these

contexts with all these insults with all

these history like um

you know to forbid people from using

that word you are

forbid people from being you know from

being human in the first place

this um this chinese-american woman okay

who clearly doesn't have a

good command of the chinese language

tried to cancel me once because i called

someone asapi

and because b the character b like um

you know the like the who xiaomi

shit yeah right yeah i know um i mean it

doesn't have the same connotations but i

think

like google translate translated that

word to cunt

yeah yeah but the thing is stuff but

it's when you say literally

it doesn't literally mean that either it

just means it just means vagina it's

just a crass way to say it but it

doesn't have the same um

connotations that that that c word in

english does you know it doesn't even

it's not even gender derivative

like you call it sapi really isn't

gendered yeah it's um

sapi is used exactly the way that

dumbass is used but then because google

translated that character to cunt

she decided to try to cancel me so then

i was like okay this is funny so then

i um i posted i i posted that whole

thing on on billy billy

and you know what the chinese people

said

of all the words that it could have

chosen google was the one who chose that

word not me

yeah yeah oh know

like seeing stupid stupid

to that to that woman i only have one

thing to say

[Laughter]

um you know like if he says like you

know saying the word stupid disabled is

if i'm are you saying that's actually

disabled people or they're actually

stupid or something like it is

come on like like the way thing is like

um

has who you barely just met um

always talk about um the anglo

understanding of language

um the americans anglo-speaking people

tends to reduce language just to its

literal form or meaning

in this very static sense words are not

connected to each other word

exists by itself without without social

connotation without context

without history so therefore if you use

this this word is

defined it's bad therefore you cannot be

used without

they think you if you just change the

language you can just

you can change the reality and i think

um

with the western left and there's a a

very popular chinese term these days

it's called baidual right usually

it literally means the whites left um or

it could be

it could be explained as a bite shits or

pie or idiotic

left but yeah that's ableist yeah yeah

yeah can i can i use the bathroom real

quick yeah a lot of tea and coffee

yeah yeah sorry you know ezra when you

were talking about that last night i was

thinking the same thing too like isn't

that kind of insulting to like disabled

people

if you just like you know what i mean

like it's like you're saying they're

stupid they're lazy like if you're

saying

like all these words are ableist it's

almost like you're calling them that

yeah yeah um and

let's see let's see what's our chat

talking

about that's a good idea um

and remember gen zedong has lots of

ultras um

yeah that that's the community and um

it's not just a problem of ultras it's

um you know even if they identify not as

ultras

they i think fundamentally the very

mindset of these

so-called western leftists is a

fundamental one of arrogance and one

one up conversation they they use their

politics as a cover for their own

personal insecurity right like you know

um

i think someone mentioned jay sakai

and i think you know the politics of you

know

those wise working class are just

irredeemable

it's just an excuse for your personal

political failure

there's really nothing more than that in

my view

so yeah we're talking about

uh what we're we're talking about bisour

so it can either

means wise left or as uh xiaomi told us

it can either mean

literally idiotic left but i think it's

a very popular term

in china these days um

to describe

you know the western left

who are into performance into proving

their rights

um those people it's

uh it's related to what people criticize

is

so called identity politics even though

it's

it's more ambiguous than that but it's

um

it's a type of leftists that

everybody despises not just in china but

i think in

non-western world people know like what

do they mean like these people

uh who goes into uh the masses not

in both in their own country and to

other countries and just finger wagging

them and lecture them

even though they themselves is already

as a privileged power position

that's why like people like um greta

thomberg is extremely

hated um outside of the western circle

what do you think i agree i

i'm in total agreement yeah yeah um

i think um that's why i really i highly

recommend people read mao

but then i've i've heard people say oh

that's reading mao it's irrelevant

because um

you know we're not going to we're not

going to support the national

bourgeoisie because there is no national

bourgeoisie in america

and we're not going to be uh having

peasants surround the cities from the

countryside because no that's not the

point of reading mao the point of

reading mao

is to see how he analyzed concrete

how he um you know carried out concrete

analyses of concrete situations

and formulated strategies that worked

and um

and another another thing about his

writings is it's generally just

good like common sense advice in general

it's like for example his works on like

how

like artists should carry out their

political work you know in their art

and stuff it's just it's just

good advice in general you know

basically don't be a dumbass

um yeah and i think you said the

concrete analysis of your concrete

condition is

very important because whenever

i think it was a caleb maupin who we

don't agree with everything with him on

everything we

need a government of action okay

government of action

fights for working families 10-10 um

10-10 impression um i don't know

what the chats think is all this i guess

we'll see the rating soon but

but what he talked about you know and

very idea of us american and

socialism with american characteristics

right

and then it's like half of the left has

just lost their mind on this and just

immediately just

has this knee-jerk reaction like how do

you have a socialist of american

characteristics

even though this is regardless of what

you think

that socialism should be or should look

like this is what you should be

doing in the first place right you

cannot just because i feel like a lot of

the leftists

even the um in fact suppose especially

the

so-called anti-imperialist even

pro-china leftists

they they fetishize us um

on these foreign countries as a way to

escape

from actually dealing with the problem

in their own society

yes but the thing is they'll go to the

countries that they fetishize

and they're not i don't think they're

going to be really welcomed no

you think someone who says like it's

able to say stupid they're going to be

welcomed in china or like anywhere in

the world

they're barely welcomed in america

now here's the thing here's the here's

the other thing you know um i think um

though i i i'm obviously like i don't

like the alt-right

but the thing is like these

pseudo-leftists are just so easy to hate

by everybody

that like what the right does is they'll

be like oh you see this this is

communism this is why communism is bad

and then like certain people buy into

that and then like they're just kind of

swayed

they're not maybe they're not completely

won over but then at least at the very

least

they um they just don't want to be

associated with leftism or communism at

all anymore just because of um

because of some of the buffoonery and

who can blame them

right um because what they all they see

is

from the left is just the inhuman sense

of elitism

and the left can criticize

uh the ruling power as much as they want

say we are not

establishments we are not centrists but

at the end of the day

you know they will side with the

establishment

when you see it for them because the

people are wrong the people

are always bigoted the people

is never pure enough so who is

who can be pretend to be pure and that's

you know the ruling classes as a ruling

order

so if i that's like that's why in the

past year i feel like half of the left

was just

supporting biden for presidency even

though

everybody know what biden is

i just had a thought that i thought was

good but um

i just forgot it happens

happens yeah um

oh yeah um i don't i don't know i forgot

what i was gonna say but then about the

whole um

um socialism with american

characteristics thing is um

i guess i don't necessarily agree with

the way that um caleb talked about it

i mean he um

but i mean it's kind of like how you

know czarist russia and the soviet union

more or less shared the same borders

but they were completely different

things so um

it's you know i mean it's like america

as um

as a um as a settler cologne

as a settler colony does need to be

abolished

it does need to be replaced with

something progressive

but um and then for example like um

oppressed nations within the us for

example like in the black belt

that do have the should be given the

right of self-determination whether or

not they remain

in like a post-revolutionary um

like state that exists where the u.s

territory now

is we don't know like we don't know how

history will play out if that were to

happen

but um the way that it's it's okay to

have criticisms of that but the way that

some people carry it out

is just like okay if you're if you're

america and you're automatically bad and

you can't be redeemed even though these

people are like

and for you to say that it's like aren't

you american

like another thing is oh i remember my

thought it's

half of the time it's not even it's not

even like the what's being said that's

bad but it's just how it's being said

that's like

oh my god you had this potential to win

these people over but now you just

fucked it all up and the whole like

who are you to say this it's kind of

like have you seen weeds the the show

no have you yeah i haven't

i haven't seen it either okay anyways

there's this one there's this one scene

where um

shane one of the characters um when he

was still a little boy got called to the

guidance counselor because he wrote this

um

he wrote this rap song in class that was

like very um just aggressive

and like violent like talk like talking

about like um

bitch you don't want to test this i'm

from the streets of agrestic

but um when the guidance counselor

talked to him he was like well

oh the guidance counselor was like your

classmates are very concerned about you

and he was like well they're all a bunch

of bitch has white kids

and the guidance counselor was like oh i

hate to break this to you but um you're

a bitch ass white kid

right it's uh it's so ridiculous

the you see the thing is

people actually ordinary people um

you know they don't spend all those time

doing those um

purely performative things performative

things

we need to let people know that america

is bad it is a reactionary settler

colony and you know everything that

the united states currently stands for

is bad but you don't

you don't do that by saying okay well

you're american so you are bad too fuck

you

too no that's yeah i think even

even the far rights um some of them even

understood this better than um so-called

leftists in the united states because

i don't know if you notice like there's

like excuse me for far right who

recognize oh you know the american

states is an

empire that's always cons endless war

on other nations they never give this

shit about his own people

and therefore does you know even people

like donald trump has to really pander

to

um his constituents of being

anti-war um and in a way he's

relative to a democrat he is he is more

anti-war than the democratic party uh

by the noah's uh uh biden is currently

sending more

he's going to send more troops to

afghanistan if i remember correctly

um yeah into i think i think maybe iraq

as well

yeah yeah yeah um so so um

here's why i think about you know with

all the problems

we complain about the current

leftists i think at the end of the day

and no matter and dig you say no we said

they criticize you know america america

is bad blah blah blah

it is and at the end of the day i think

they are more american exceptionalists

than even the more chauvinistic

average american in the sense of

i wouldn't say so i think they're about

the same but it manifests itself

differently

no well what i mean is that um um

in when they criticize

um you know the the original sins of

america

when they criticize columbus or whatever

they are using they can they are in the

position to criticize that way

because of the hegemonic liberal order

that the united states

erected um you know what i mean because

whenever u.s american leftists they

criticize scene they criticize on purely

moral basis almost

they're saying you know these things are

bad things are evil

um you know criticize i don't know and

they're bad

but the question is they are criticized

through the lens of um us

liberalism um they will look at china

for example they were

having no idea about the actual living

condition there in china in russia

or in any other country and they just

say this violates human rights

you're doing this as bad blah blah blah

blah

and they can speak it because they they

don't need to deal with the things us

the imperial

center and um when

in january when the um

trump supporters stormed the capital um

most of them just immediately saying oh

my god we need to defend the american

democratic institution

um even though people around the world

intuitively think

oh this no no the empire got what it

deserved

with um with ordinary people just

storming

the seats of power call them ordinary

people

but it's like whatever

yeah yeah but but so just the regardless

you have like real people i don't know

just

people not people in viking horns or

something but just

just complete rentals just just

um just doing all the shits

um in u.s capital um

it's like for the first time in in in

their lives

americans liberals especially are

feeling a fraction

of the terror that the um the

politicians they support calls abroad

all the time

and what i'm trying to say is that um

i think uh for the past year there's

lots of um

social movements rising you know we have

the

uh initially a black lives matter

protest over police brutality and then

turned into something very very

very very weird about i don't know um

canceling tv show episodes or something

but um

i don't know about that you don't know

what so

and then removing like um so it started

as a real

organic anger i think and then it just

becomes a

purely uh corporatized thing

it's like you have like major

corporation you have fashion corporation

pulling out um i don't know black models

or something this is

this is completely detached from this

original meaning

and um it's like some of the excesses of

the great proletarian cultural

revolution but

backed by um backed by certain elements

of the bourgeoisie yeah exactly

yeah it's like it's like a boujou

proletariat

excuse me good boo draw cultural

revolution or something

um

yeah yeah yeah yeah i think um

i think what you're trying to say right

now though is um i made a tweet thread

about this a while back and it's talking

about how um

what communists and other leftists need

to understand is

when people you know develop politically

they um it's because they are

disillusioned with the current order of

things so that's why um that's why in

america

that you know oh yeah people take the

path of least resistance which is why

in america in the west um their defaults

are usually

you know either social democracy or

fascism and

why is this the case it's because um

these two you know social democracy and

fascism are a lot more similar than

people want to admit they're both

attempts at um

you know the third way between you know

communism or social real socialism and

like capitalism

and this is especially relevant in

america because like communism has been

so damn like demonized

that you know you talk to people and

they're like well i'm a democratic

socialist because socialism without

democracy leads to

dictatorship like stalin who was really

really bad you know stalin was based

but and then um but then like if you

have democracy without socialism then

it's capitalism and that's like okay i

don't know what the fuck you're talking

about but

okay let's um that's not how things are

i mean i would be nicer in real life but

um

they um the thing is um both are like

this

because um they remain bourgeois

dictatorships but the thing is um

people like i don't know

like um the other thing is in america

fascism is it takes

form of like you know just like the

alt-right just outright racism and all

like just bigotry and stuff like that

but they don't see

how like fascism abroad can like dress

us up dress itself

up like in progressive garb and when

that happens it's resemblance to social

democracy is even more apparent i mean

look at um you look at um

color revolutions like maidan and um or

the

or some of the you know the hong kong

protesters they they a lot of them are

trying to dress up those protests has

like

left you know what i mean yeah like and

progressive or even bolivia

right like yeah exactly and um i think

social democracy and fascism are so

readily accepted by

people who are disillusioned with the

current order because um you know

at the end of the day they're highly

compatible with

like the type of individualism that's

that's just um

sacred in the west i mean i'm not saying

that we're gonna um

waste our energy on converting you know

committed fascists but we need to

understand

why some people who are just beginning

to question

you know the system might turn to

fascism and we should seek to win the

ones

when when some of the ones over who are

willing to listen i mean the ones who

are just

very committed like okay they're a lost

cause like we need to isolate them but

um i mean

i mean leninism what is it about it's

about on winning over the advanced

segments of like groups and then getting

them to win over

like the you know the more middle of the

rotors and then you isolate

the the backwards you know what i mean

and um

not enough not enough care is given in

the west like the western left is more

concerned with virtue signaling

that um and like punching nazis which i

i i have nothing against punching nazis

you know that's good

but if you're at the point of punching

nazis you're a little bit late don't you

think

i think disrupting the liberal to

fascist pipeline

is very important and that's not going

to happen if you're just

constantly alienating the masses from

you and say oh like your whole existence

is

is wrong also i think the

the streets nazis are also just easy

targets because they're not in the

position of power

whereas the very forces that sustain

no fascism or fascist-like policies

by the u.s order is actually the

the liberal or even social democratic

establishments

they have this um nice face they are

polite

but the damage that they are being doing

to both the american people and the

people

of the rest of the world are far far

greater than i don't know random trolls

from 4chan or something

all right right and the left

you know there's a sense of priority or

almost a sense of like

primary versus secondary contradiction

here

that that they just um they don't

understand they just think

they never get the priority they think

they can just do

these things and like uh uh

they want to almost like act out their

their politics post revolution in a

world which

you know the the establishments is still

in power you know they want to

i know gulag people when you don't

control the gulag or something

it's like you know if you don't have um

if you don't have dual power if you

don't have um

a real mass movement like

yeah you can you can get you can get

your friends to like unfollow certain

people on twitter

but none of this has any bearing in the

in real life you need to realize this

but people

i mean you know this but people need to

realize this

some i i think um

another thing when it comes to the

question of like uh you know social

democrats

and uh fascists is that a lot of people

think in these like super ideological

terms

uh when in reality you know most

conservatives are not ideologically like

identifying you know with

uh fascism or with you know this or that

ideology and i think people need to

think

more so in terms of uh you know class

and also what national like

the national question the class uh

question when determining like what kind

of alliances

um you want to make and so i think when

uh you know there's people who

try to engage with reactionaries it's

not so much because they think there can

be an alliance between these ideologies

but there can be an alliance between

like the kind of like

more backwards masses that might be

represented by these more extreme

um you know ideological uh

characters exactly which is why we need

to be among the masses

and understand where like bad ideas come

from by the way there's only um

three minutes left before the um yeah

before the stream's gonna

and so i think we should restart um

session

so it is abruptly it's a great

[Music]

[Music]

sorry i think there must be an audio

problem before um let me just repeat

that

um so what was the question um

trump caused a lot of changes in how

people in china view america or just

lots of memes

i think trump fundament fundamentally

changed

how chinese people view

america because before trump a lot of

chinese people

um even me to a degree i think

still think that the american liberal

order is uh

is an inevitability it's something that

cannot be shaken

and deep inside they should always think

that america

is uh superiors more advanced

and even some people who will think you

know the

liberal democratic system eventually

will triumph

but after trump there is no there is not

that kind of delusion people

think can see the inherent weakness in

the so-called liberal democracy

they can see how fake it is because it's

extremely arbitrary it's

you know you can have you know make such

complete

you can make it's based on very archaic

rules

and it's not even fair because of the

amounts of

disproportion of power um the media

the um the older guard who has all the

money have

so after trump chinese people especially

younger people are

actually getting lots of confidence in

the chinese system they

they are actually seriously

re-evaluating reevaluating chinese

history to see

how much progressive change have been

done in china

and um you know there are some bad

things or

definitely struggles but the progress

that china made

in industrialization modernization and

recently with poverty alleviation is uh

is is unimaginable in

america or many other places

so there's a much greater sense of

confidence and

no i think it's probably sin like

now more young chinese are more

patriotic

and more interested in marxism

since the end of the cultural revolution

for the longest time um like especially

in

in mainland china i feel like meeple

just

they would say oh whatever works works

we don't really care about marxism

leninism that was like

i think that was you could see that was

a that was what most people thought like

they didn't they didn't concern

themselves with these things would you

agree yeah

yeah yeah yeah i mean i i didn't see

china yeah i mean i mean still there's

um there's

a lot of i'd say most people in china

are still like that today but then now

they're just like okay but um

we don't want what america has

yeah there seems to be this sort of

misconception i find on them like the

pro china

on western left that like every man

woman

child and dog in china like has studied

like

the like all of the works of marx linen

like

ingles stalin it's mao etc

most most most barely read any

like um most people don't care

and uh yeah and

that should change yeah yeah they're

changing in the past even when you do

have um

marxist education under the official um

means it's textbooks

yeah and they're like this it's one of

those classes you go in and just rub

your eyes

i'll have to do this to fulfill my

credits or something

but right now like um i mean still

i won't say it's the mainstream

sentiments but you've seen

young chinese students complaining

that they can't learn enough in the

official marxist classes they want to

learn more

so you have like people self-talking

being self-taught on not just marxism

but even

the history of chinese revolutions

online on video platform

um online forums on this on that topic

you know i i have a chinese language um

channel that teaches like marxist

leninism and um

before it was intended for like

taiwanese people to like better

understand these topics but i find like

taiwanese people aren't really watching

it's like a bunch of like

mainland teenagers and they're like

they're reuploading it to bilibili and

then like yeah they're like you know

yeah i showed this to my class in

school today my teacher liked it yeah

even

weirdly enough like a lot of young

chinese are learning their basic

intro to marxism from like americans

like

like richard professor rachel wolf or

something like taiwanese people like me

yeah yeah they watch my videos they're

like wait this is a taiwanese accent

how how is um how has he studied all

this stuff

because he's so based um yeah

um let's see i can so

uh there's one thing i want to discuss

that's kind of a bigger issues but i

want to

see if there's people who have any

question um

anti-china sentiment is on the rise even

within populism which worries me that's

true and i

think that's that's the biggest

challenge of the american

this you see like you know like um the

mainstream left

you know the people the left represented

by aoc and such like

they are very anti-china but in a logic

that is consistent with

you know the leftist logic just moralism

liberalism um

one that's that sounds at times even

radical in rhetoric

but you are always because you're

materially objectively based

upon the american imperial power so

therefore oh no

it's they take like these sort of like

things that like they just learned about

in america like oh there's like white

supremacy and there's

a settler colony and then they try to

like copy paste it and then like force

it on to trying to say oh you see

hon chinese are like the white people

there are it's like it's like han

supremacy and

it's a settler colony because um because

on the the

the dynasty united like the the

different areas of china in the past and

then like during the qing dynasty this

got incorporated and i'm like

okay well you know xinjiang has been a

part of china for longer

than like california's been a part of

the us

right so shut the hell up yeah i think

this is a nice transition because

um when we talk about you and for just

use two user example

either u.n or ting dynasties these are

not

han rule dynasties you and it was ruled

by the the ruling class of mongols and

the inting the ruling caused manchu

uh and they weren't capitalist empires

either it was like it's like you know

past the

imperial china was like feudal yeah yeah

in many ways but um yeah i think what's

interesting is that

people has this image of china being

this ultra

nationalist um

ultra nationalist country i guess that's

everything is assimilated

by the han culture everything you know

is uh you know how many purified

us han chinese have become because of

the qing dynasty

think about some of the words you use

like for example for like messi

yeah that's not that's not that's that's

been cherry and vocabulary this sounds

mature i didn't know about this before

but it sounds

not like han yeah the han word but i

think it was interesting for china is

even from the beginning either before

the prc with the republic of china

china was never defined as a that was

never thought of as a nation states

right it's because

of the diverse nationalities uh

in the old teen empire so sunny

tried to kind of make it like that

because he was so inspired by the west

but it didn't really work i mean

you know how like he had the five big

nations within china that they tried to

create like

and turn into this like kind of greater

um greater chinese nations

yeah yeah i think um people didn't

really feel like they belonged to what

jonghyun

until recent decades and that's only

because

all of the different like all the 56

different um

or 55 minority nation national cultures

have been so respected

and like preserved and developed under

the prc it's only by this sort of a

mutual respect and

harmony that like then people will

voluntarily like kind of

combine into a greater um that's why

that's why it's kind of

interesting i always find jong ha means

the concept of a chinese nation

interesting because china is a country

of 56 nations like

nation has like national like

nationality like

but um i guess with um this sort of like

common um

cultural um psychological makeup common

um territory common you know economic

activity

over time there has been an emergence of

this sort of like idea

of a chinese nation but with like these

sort of sub nations or

the existence of 56 nations that form a

super nation

if you know what i mean yes yes i think

the

means or the chinese nation is not even

understood in the same way that the

westerners think of all nations

because you know nations um

you know it's generally think about it

espec as a

one people one landing is one roots or

something

and there's a shared history

that um people try to find with jeonghan

enzo but it's

always presupposed no difference

background people with different

background different

routes coming together to form this like

you say almost a super nation because

china is not like a nation states it's

almost like

not quite but closer to a real-life span

pan-african state

um than western nation states like

um i don't know like uh

albania or something um it's because in

the past when cat when um

when feudalist states like capitalism

rose and like feudal states naturally

you know um

like the state did emerge like you know

on a nation by

nation basis for the most part there's

still imperfections you can't like

there's still going to be like minority

nations and stuff but there's that sort

of stuff going on whereas in china it's

i mean it was it was a feudal it was

like a feudal um like empire not like

imperialist as a capital

you know what i mean right yes i guess

yeah so then there's gonna be like

different nationalities within china

that like um

you know we're all subjects of the

emperor that's what

made them chinese like in the past but

then like when

china changed i mean it was thrown into

a new world with like

you know a different world order that it

just had to adapt but then like

what you were determines kind of who you

become

like how do you make sense of everything

how do you fit everything in that's

that's why like these sort of things

just emerge differently in china than

like

in western europe for example yeah i

think right now um

from our point of view there's a

tendency

i think um to see that the old

european-style nation states

that um rose during the 19th and early

20th century

it's being out molded more and more

people are seeing

the world as what they call the

civilizational state

um which you know is china understanding

itself

as a as a civilization which

by default is multinational um dynamic

and um and constantly

interacting with other civilizations you

know you see

similar discourse in turkey um

and you see it's always with russia with

some eurasianism for example

and then you see even some in european

continents they are trying to form

this distinct continental identity

that's different from that

and the soviet union yeah the soviet

union right

i think after a while i mean i first won

the first soviet universe for and i'm

sure people were like yeah i'm first i'm

georgia

first i am azerbaijani first i'm uzbek

then i am soviet but then as the longer

the soviet union existed

like by the time like there was a

brethren of era i feel like most people

who were born then would be like okay

first and foremost i'm a soviet

and then i'm a ukrainian

right but i think to even go beyond the

soviet union because soviet union is

still a federation of nation what they

think of a federation of

national based republic right like but

even beyond that's like china

it's you know you have um special

administrative uh um provinces but

it's part isn't it's it's it's

china is understood as something that is

transnational

yes soviet union don't quite get that um

there's some inherent paradox within the

soviet union

and i think there's this tendency today

to

um to on the one

hand rediscover your national routes you

know there's always been great

resentment against

transnational entities like you know

like the us but also within europe for

example against the european union

etc but there's also a bigger striving

to find the um

different kinds of of um

of a higher sense of identity if that

makes sense

um and this is this thriving

is inherently contradictory with the

anglo-american liberal order

um which purports the world to be

um to be abstract to be um

you know focus only on the individual

rights they want to focus only on

abstract human rights and laws over

history over even culture and

languages itself

then liberals don't understand this and

then like that's why they're you know

what's really funny is um most liberals

would agree that you know

the idea of an ethnostate is fascist and

bad right

but then for some reason they want to

carve up china into a bunch of ethno

states

the thing is no no if the liberal dream

gets realized in china

like let's just say you know something

happened uh the calling is particle

overthrow and they try to establish a

liberal democracy in china

what would happen it would be something

like you know it would be balkanized and

have literally happened with like the

balkans yugoslavia

yeah yeah yeah um in soviet union two

you will have

nationally defined supposedly

democratic republic and there will be

constant isn't contention there will be

war

of of almost exterminations as you've

seen

um in ex yugoslavia and to a lesser

degree in the soviet union

that's what they mean you know like

liberalization means

almost mean extra extermination and

collapse

they want um they want han and wieger to

start hating each other and start

killing each other

you know i think one of my friends who

joked that if the

the cia and the america government

smart enough they would have actually

supports khan

chauvinism or nationalism in china

um instead of criticizing china for

being a hot nationalist

um because it's only by doing that the

only strategic

chauvinism would create the collapse of

china yeah

yeah yeah yeah yeah that's always

interesting but right now

since they keep doing this now we're

just giving them an idea

yeah and also people in china says

because there is obviously organic

chauvinism in

us in all places but you know you cannot

justify

china on nationalism shamanism because

you know china will collapse so you have

to basically choose are you either

pro-china or are you either

a high nationalist

so i want you someone asked a question

what is the

main currency in the cpc i heard there's

different camps

but she represents the ml camp

um i don't know how much you know this

but

for my impression i'm not in actually

exporting the internal working of the

cbc but

um c represents

um represents uh

how should i say not necessarily i

wouldn't call it a male chem but the

camp that

seeks to reconnect with the

revolutionary past

of the chinese communist party because

it's certainly different from the junk

the jungle mean camp yeah yeah and his

predecessor who too

um was just an extension of zhang yeah

yeah yeah yeah basically

um he served for 10 years had power for

exactly zero days

yeah he's basically puppets i don't know

how much of a puppy is but

he's basically that's what people in

china say yeah yeah yeah i know

but he's represented as someone who

actually trying to bring back the

the history of chinese revolution and um

the ccp factional is

a cbc functional dispute is always very

complicated um you have people with

different orientation but

yes she does represents that tendency

and there is still a conservative in a

sense sebastian in

china who opposed him you know the

remnants of the jiang

clique or something the giant camp

seeks to oppose um

let's see if there's anything else

i'm screaming please okay

what the future holds for china what do

you think the future holds for china um

well i think the young people are with

you right

that's my impression um like the younger

generations

are heavily well generally more so than

older generations

but influenced by the xi jinping

thoughts and the idea of a

new way of life with a chinese dream

because they understand their lives

they're one of the main benef

beneficiaries of um

chinese revolution history and so i

think so far

um we'll see in general i think it's a

good direction um

you know it's never perfect and there's

always been plenty of criticism but i

think

in my view um

the current trials of the c factions in

the cb

cpc is a very good thing

china imposes one child policy on han

citizen but doesn't have it for ethnic

minorities that's very true

um you know like one show policy was

um almost generally an urban hunt thing

even in rural hun area is poorly

enforced

and in ethnic minorities are completely

exempt

you know what kind of supposedly

han supremacy states or like a genocidal

state

limits the birth of its own majority

population

like china's genocidal it's pretty

shitty at genocide

um hello i guess the manchus were the

true sellers

live logic now the interesting thing

about manchus not only is that not

not like i guess capitalistic but

the men choose they basically

assimilated themselves

with the wider han culture right like

because um

they've assimilated themselves while

they assimilated us yeah yeah yeah yeah

because

in china the word for us in chinese the

war for this is

which i think is a little bit different

because in my the connotation of the

english word assimilation is one-sided

you have something similar to the other

like you have a

you know almost an object in the subject

but

literally means to become the same

yeah yeah yeah so it's almost mutual

it's bi-directional and that process has

always been going on between various

chinese nationalities

especially with the nomads in the north

um one great example is um the mandarin

that we speak now standard mandarin it's

based on the beijing dialect and the

beijing dialogue was heavily influenced

by like you know the mantras desertions

and

all of those like different groups if

you listen to like the way they

it's um if you listen to the way they

speak and you listen to the way that

like

the the past like standard chinese like

for example like a nanjing or like the

southern chinese dialects

that um preserve like a lot of the

characteristics of like middle chinese

and older chinese like from like the

tongue dynasty it's

you can tell they're it could it's a

very apparent

like the manchurian influence is

very apparent yeah to the point that

sometimes like um type northerners sound

like are all like

for her like when they speak

um and to the point that you know um

from what i read like certain people in

vietnam or in taiwan in

even in south korea who are anti-prc

will say like you know they're not even

real chinese anymore because

their language has been polluted by

barbarians um

like the manchus or something people in

taiwan don't really say that

well i think the older the older k like

the super old school kmt

which aren't really taken seriously like

they'll be like oh they're not the real

chinese anymore because

yeah destroyed culture but it wasn't um

but they

the argument isn't oh because they've

been like mancherified that wasn't

really the thing

yeah yeah it's nowadays separatists it's

like oh it doesn't matter they're

chinese and we're not so fuck them

fucking

yeah it's chinese related so um are the

same because they're both chinese

bastards even though we're chinese too

but for some reason whatever

yeah yeah that's why i mean um you know

my father's friends

many of them are like older like um

blue camp taiwanese type and they've

been saying you know all chinese culture

has been destroyed by

cultural revolution or just like the

manchus come from the north or something

but the terracotta army was

discovered and preserved during the

cultural revolution

for example yeah that's what they say

right this is interesting

uh let's see um let me try to guess

over the let me try to get through the

chat

uh the virgin colonial exploiter versus

the chad

tributary silk trader

the liberals are already mean crushed i

uh i would like to know what the

direction is like if the liberals have

already been crushed so

leonardo i think in the political

central power there's

uh the consolidation of c is a big

strike

against them but i think on the social

level

um in everyday social level especially

in some of the

older uh intellectual circles the

so-called

liberals um in china are still quite

influential you'll be

you'll be actually surprising how

influential liberal voices are

in um chinese institutions

especially universities um that's why so

much for my liking

yeah yeah too much for mine too that's

why um

the term for it's or for them are like a

gonzo or something yeah yeah like

literally mean public intellectuals

it's like the same thing with you know

the twitter blue checks what they say in

the united

states those people who are you know

very liberal

and they say you know um they put their

own

ideal uh way of life

or morality against the

actual living living livelihood of the

people

those people

nation states is a product called

language politics education

i saw a comment i want to comment on

from cosmic bread saying it's sad that

north and south korean are almost

different languages now because of all

the western influence

in southern language

not quite they're still mutually

intelligible but the south does

incorporate

a lot of um western

western loanwords whereas um in the

north they're still loanwords

but um they use a tool they spam it on

the far lesser degree like for example

this this ballpoint pen in south korea

is called um bore pen

but in the north it's north it's called

um uh one's up here

yeah so it sounds very different to me i

don't understand when when's up here it

is um

runs the b oh okay okay like the same

the same hunch the same characters yeah

read in korean it's one zapier

yeah or um or a cell phone and in the

south it's called um

or like hand phone but in the north it's

called um i think um

which also means hand phone but sue was

like um hand and um

telephone see

the the dprk actually um released this

whole documentary like it's a very short

documentary about like the

westernization of south korea and

they're saying like

they have all of these like foreign loan

words such as this this this and one of

the ones that listed was um

which is motherfucker

um let's see

um

western means was

u.s have different racial origin but

there is since anglo-american hegemony

um true cut

was this kaizo cool what's

um wait we're sorry i lost that comments

there's a there's a a question about uh

taiwan from el reydelos namos

asking how deep are the brain warms

right now

that separatist leader lady is on some

wild shit so i guess it's just about

like uh

taiwanese politics

um i guess

that's a very open-ended question but um

i guess for more information to really

understand that you will need to know

the um

the background history of like the

political development of um taiwan and

for that i highly recommend my own

i'm gonna plug myself here but the

series i did on carl's um

silk and steel podcast i did a whole

series on the um

the history of um just the history of

taiwan and its political development

starting from like prehistoric times

to like you know the the late ming early

qing dynasty

and um it's 50 years under japanese rule

it's returned to on the republic of

china

and then um four years following that um

the camt's um retreat to taiwan

until present day and like all the

different developments because i think

um

especially um in the um pro-china

western left

not even just the western not even just

the left but like

i think um with many people like chiang

kai-shek

was just okay he went to taiwan in 1949

and that's that but they don't really

understand like what

kmt rule in taiwan was like and like

with the various different

um oppositions to to towards the kmt

starting with the communists who were

then um thoroughly exterminated by

chiang kai-shek to like the petty

bourgeois

opposition like pro bourgeois who were

like you know pro

bourgeois democracy that later developed

into what is now the dpp or the um that

that um or tying one that that lady you

were talking about with the brain worms

on her

her party so yeah um

someone's oh the do someone want to

repeat the name of the podcast

oh silken steel okay yeah someone

someone typed it

yeah so it's good um i think

another thing that's um we briefly

mentioned um

about you know the western's left in

their attempt even the pro

the china western left specifically in

how

they um operates because we know that

the u.s

is a declining hegemonic power it's

still the hegemon but

it's undoubtedly declining and i don't i

don't think anyone dispute this anymore

everybody can see it

with the handling of coronavirus etc

um but what do you

what do you what do you think about this

because uh what do you think is after

going

to how the world is going to look like

after

the end of the us hegemony um

lots of for our viewer i think there

were going to be a more like

what they call multi-polar world order

um beijing biden will teach us all

chinese

i can't say well i i mean i don't think

a new power

could rise that that's just like america

can rise because like

american hegemony arose and very um

specific

um under very specific circumstances you

had world war ii and like all the rest

of the imperialist powers were too

weakened by the war whereas like america

just kind of

was like the sole beneficiary of the war

basically

and um unless you recreate those

conditions i don't think a soul

like a unipolar world can

um rise again i mean even in um

after world war ii there was a soviet

union but then the soviet union

you know collapsed so from like the

1990s until

until like recently the u.s has been

like the soul gemini but i don't think i

don't think those conditions can arise

again

yeah yeah because even if china falls

like in like

50 years or something i mean the u.s is

still sufficiently weakened

at this point i don't think i don't

think i can make a rebound

yeah and that um although i think um

the weird thing though um i was just

taking taking a few step back

is that when pro china love this when

they talk about china when they are

no for good intention when they're

trying to

counter the forces the discourse of

imperialism

i feel like they're still kind of behind

in times they treated

they treat china as just one of many

victims of

american imperialism and they don't

quite see

how china is a rising power and is one

of the major contributor

to the decline or the fall of a

u.s liberal order and they still use

this

moral reason you know imperialism is bad

because you know

poor people in the third world die or

something it's almost like

almost like that is true it's almost

like almost a philanthropy right like

look

those poor african kids on children

starving you know do you want to

oh another thing is i don't think

westerners really understand this but um

i think us chinese people we don't like

we don't like um we don't like pit we

don't like we don't want to be pitied

i don't think anyone like to be pitied

certain like i think radical some

radical liberals like

uh who realize that can translate into

like social

capital in their little circles like it

but other than that like the hipsters

with their like

with their like um pity porn slam poetry

no i think that's one of the even wider

problem because i think

the left's politics can be summarized as

pity politics right like

you know those people are suffering even

in health care you know um

uh people need help from the

governments etc but

people really don't like to be pity they

don't want respect

yes like because when you people when

you when you're pitied it's almost as if

you're babied

yeah yeah and that's why i think

americans especially the american people

they they absolutely despise being

pitied

they were rather um they were almost

rather died and

huge than the elites trying to pity them

i think this is um a

problem with the american left because

they identify with the ruling power they

say signal

or the government should do this should

give more welfare should give health

care to people it's all

like socialism for them is almost just

giving three things away

and for the american people that is an

extremely

or disrespectful um dynamic in two ways

one you are siding with the the state as

it currently is

you know the the elite what they think

of the elise or the deep states or

whatever

the government and you are

being condescending towards them um

socialism is was

because in china um socialism never have

a connotation of just getting free

things

it doesn't make sense to think about

socialism that way um

socialism no see socialism isn't just

free things because by that definition

like

every single state that's ever existed

whether it's feudal or capitalist or

socialist

is socialist because to carry out its

functions it needs to

it provides things like roads for

example but that doesn't automatically

mean it's

socialist yeah yeah i i see what you're

getting at but i mean

there should be a guarantee that you

know people should

survive i think i'm putting human human

interests

you know of them putting the human

interests of the masses before

profit is um something admirable but

it's not really just them

oh yeah oh yeah i know what you're

talking about you're talking about like

the anti-work left who's like you know

yeah yeah we

nobody we shouldn't have to work at all

and we should just um you know

or is is that kind of what you're saying

yeah

yeah just all right

we're back yeah

and i am

i was thinking a in the terms of this

question of multiple polarity even if

if china china will not stay

hey obviously for obviously will it

become like a traditionalist

power in a sense he could set an example

an example of a question of of

recuperating i don't know if that's the

word is the

this is a need of some kind of sorry

sovereign international syrian politics

uh in i mean it was for example they

have that has keep giving

it was normally related the situation

with the left in latin america in the

question of recuperating in this state

sovereignty politics it was always some

kind of of support and process the

situation between

the places

like venezuela like venezuela or for

example also in mexico

and recently there was system with the

recently estee

return of sovereign politics here

on our country there was also some kind

of people that

is waiting to to revive

is the a terrorist kind of

relations with china

uh going from far away of the

traditional situation of we being

a our explaining state bonded

with the united states uh

for example the example that we are the

ones that

buy it a lot about a lot of among the

very vast scenes that we

will buy the the the chinese dressing

they consider using

or for example there's a soft kind of

of of people here that are talking about

the the the reviving

of the now the chinese now because

in the past mexico was a kind of st

trade center when was the state a new

spain colonial newspaper

was a trench interest we changed

with with and now with uh we

with an hour uh another let's defleet

with now that go from acapulco to

to commerce switching and and some

people in the same sense of of this

stability and initiative there are some

intellectuals left people in in mexico

was talking to rebellion

they now and now now in china

with china mexico so is that kind of

sense that i see

is the relation of the paper that could

have

china in this new situation of

multi-polarity

a new a new center of example of a

recuperation

of sovereignty politics national

politics

um see so

xiaomi you mentioned about almost we

need like socialism

a future socialist women need to

emphasize uh

a type of meritocracy but not the same

type that we've had

do you want to elaborate elaborate a

little more on that or

[Music]

oh i talked about that yeah yeah yeah

i think but i think a lot of the um the

whole thing about

capitalism and um i think

the issue is a lot of the western left

just

can't imagine life under any other

system

but capitalism even though they are um

against capitalism so that's where

that's where like this sort of anti-work

attitude comes from

because you because these people can't

imagine

work outside of the context of

capitalist exploitation you know but

um labor is what gives our lives meaning

like you know being part of society and

laboring and creating value for society

and bettering our society together

i think um another thing about

meritocracy is yeah we should

the the basic the baseline should be

guaranteed you know

you shouldn't have to worry in a country

for example where there is more

there's more there's more empty houses

than there are homeless people i mean

that

there shouldn't be homeless people then

right but at the same time um

i think people in general like

find you know working for what they have

to be fulfilling

wouldn't you agree it's kind of like

there's a difference between like

being given a card by your parents than

from like working and then buying a car

with their own money

yeah i think the also problem people

have

isn't working itself but you know what

kind of work and the meaning of your

work

you know a lot of work and the fact that

it sucks away your life and like you

don't have time to pursue any like

any like cultural activities or just

doing the things you want to do and you

feel like

you're all of your life is just you know

working

for um the enrichment of your capitalist

overlords that is very

that is very um they're very um

alienating

but then i mean if they're even after

socialism there's so much work to be

done i mean when

if you have like um you know shitty

infrastructure

like that needs to be fixed that's work

you have um you know undereducated

people

like because of like shitty schools and

um america and poor areas so

that's a lot of work to be done over

there don't you think that's that's kind

of it kind of goes into the whole

destruction versus construction thing

like

there is the aspect of tearing down the

old this the old the reactionary system

but then like

once that's done there's a lot of work

to be done in constructing a new society

you know and creating creating a new

consciousness among the masses that's

that's all work

and also the works is being done

uh on what's it was presently there i

think um

for westerners and america in particular

they think about um socialism as

as something that's already existing in

their mind a system and then they apply

it to the world

um it's almost like it's just like what

they say the heaven on earth

on this uh pure technical puritans

um you know so that's why you have

so-called anti-china leftists they have

a preconceived notion of what social

media already

is in this very idealist manner and then

because china doesn't fit because of the

reality

uh that is china is inconcurrent

with that socialism therefore

they would um deny the actual concrete

practical achievements of socialism and

of the communist movements

and you know will just reduce

china to just a form of imperialism or

something

with china so there's a little bit more

contention like even within china you

know there's um like the more um

there are people who believe that china

is revisionist and we're not gonna get

into that there but then like the people

you describe they do that even with like

with stalin especially they're like oh

he's a red fascist he's not a socialist

because

you know whatever reason they come up

with a whole lotta more

but i think i want to get back to what

um jorge was saying i think um was he

speaking about the um

the what is it the restoration of

sovereignty

and um national politics surrounding

national politics

in the case of latin america

independence sovereign national politics

independent from

from the united states

oh so you're saying that with um the

downfall of

the united states these countries and

like the people there will have

a more will have more breathing space to

them

further develop their own national

characteristics and their own culture

independent from

like neoliberal hygiene hegemony is that

what you're saying

of course of course in the case of

mexico bolivia

venezuela

a few years ago like when this whole

syriza thing happened and they

thought about leaving the eu they

started making ties to

russia they oriented themselves toward

the east and you also have the same

thing

in germany right now uh like

germany is kind of interesting it's kind

of caught up between west and east

you have this liberal establishment for

historical reasons tied to the

us and the west and the soul navalny

shit

fucked things up a little more

now you have russia and china

[Music]

russia accounts of diplomatic relations

with the eu just recently

now we have russia and china uh joining

a military union

so uh that's also something to note here

one thing that we need to know

is like russia for russia is not a

socialist country but

you know it's a capitalist country and

it has its own interests but the thing

is

it is not in a position to become

a world hegemony like the united states

is and in their pursuit of their

interests it undermines u.s imperialist

interests and

as of now the us is the number one

hegemony

the it which is um in this in the case

of like imperialism you know

oftentimes it becomes on the primary

contradiction that people need to face

so anything that undermines u.s hegemony

is um

should be critically supported and is

objectively a good thing even though you

know

it doesn't mean that we're you know fans

of

exactly fans of putin or whatever but

that's

at the end of the day um

when um i agree with multipolarism

because um you know

okay some some people some like vulgar

leftists will be like oh well you know

some fascists say multipolarism is good

well this is a thing let's see even if

all of these powers

within a multipolar world are

capitalists

when when the

the smaller countries that are stuck

between like you know different

imperialisms they have more

moral maneuver room when um

these different powers are like in

contradiction with one another and have

their conflicts

it's all about gaining sovereignty

even just breathing space yes and

freeing oneself from the u.s

establishment

reminds me of that um reminds me of that

song i think it's from germany how like

it's

um we're all in america oh

yeah yeah there are more many more songs

uh

amigo home is popular

and i think you mentioned we've

mentioned it before butting

this notion of primary versus secondary

contradiction is again

crucial here because people just think

they tend to some people just tend to um

erase

the difference between these two things

all now you have

this contradiction here is the same as

there whereas

you know they neglected the primary

contacts of um

anglo-american hegemony in the first

place

hold up one thing uh leonardo

uh this is kind of not um the topic for

today uh i

will get back to that in a later stream

ask me that question again and i will

talk about that um

[Music]

let's see

usa or

so

i think um i think we can tie

everything back to um what

we've been discussing before um

in your view i guess it can be a summary

or it can be a

further elaboration what

should an individual like what not the

individual what

should the um the left if

it exists at all um do

in um western especially american

context

how what is your advice um

someone who i respect um at least

um do you especially very lots of young

people

out there who are trying to find um

trying to discover a correct path

if i should say i think

mao zedong said something good which is

um you know it can be said that

some people argue that if your

intentions are good then um

like you know it's as long as your

intentions are good then

it's like even if you fail then um it

could be forgiven which is which is true

but this is the thing is if your

intentions are good and one of your

strategies

has been tried and it's proven to not

work and cause damage

if you don't change your tactics after

that can it really be said that your

intentions are still good

right so i think um one thing i would

like to say is um you know be a little

bit

more um just kind of realize that we

don't

have all the answers and that finding

the answers requires

practice and especially it means i'm

stepping out of our little um

left echo chamber i think um

another one another issue that um i see

with the western left is utter

disrespect for

theory because you know there is yes

dogmatism is a problem but the

but um you know when you don't read

theory

you end up trying to recreate reinvent

the wheel and um i mean the one one

one book i really recommend is um the um

what is it the

history of the communist party of the

soviet union

short course which um it will talk about

the various

trends of reaction in like zarya's

russia and

what not like you know the neurotonics

the black hundreds and whatnot

and what's really interesting is you

could see like very similar trends that

still exist today among like you know

the left and like the right and etc it's

because

like the the same class relations more

or less still exist

so seriously take study more seriously

because okay i understand not everyone

can read not be or has the time to read

or whatever but that means

those who can those who can read and do

all that stuff need to

take this stuff more seriously because

now it's our responsibility to um

educate those around us who you know

might not have the time or the education

to

read these things and make sense of them

another thing is um

have trust have more trust in the

potential of the masses yes the masses

themselves aren't going to spontaneously

um spontaneously like erupt

um detonate a revolution

but um without them we're nothing so

um you know there's for example with the

berniecrats

i see one big problem is they're

obsessive over oh

like look at which celebrity endorsement

bernie sanders oh look like

pussy rides supporting bernie sanders

and it's like

why it's the quote from mao zedong is

the people and the people alone

are the motive force of the creation of

history the people

not celebrities so there's there's that

too

i think these are just some general

advice and the other thing is just

um you know most people i think most

people are

are have good intentions and

they're good they have bad ideas because

of um

because they live in a reactionary

society so

instead so we need to take that into

consideration and meet people

where they are and then work with that

and then try to win them over

now i mean there's certain people who we

can't do that with who are just

actively you know doing propaganda for

bad ideas

and those people need to be isolated but

um

those people are not the majority of the

people and if you're doing that to too

many people then you're isolating

ourselves

so i think um that's another thing that

we should we should take more seriously

and another thing is

um at the very least you know not

everyone is in the capacity to do

like very serious organizational work

because for a variety of reasons but i

think the least that we can all do

is do the best we can to educate

ourselves like especially with current

events with history with theory and

stuff

and then spread information and do what

we can in that regard

and don't down don't um

there don't don't be like don't have

this whole anti-intellectual attitude

about reading and

theory and stuff because this is a thing

you know

so-called lived experiences those are

important but

without proper theory like the same

lived experience can be

interpreted like in countless many ways

that's why like having a good grounding

in like in your political education is

important so you can make sense of it so

then opportunists don't come in

and like just just like sway you and

then like

move you to like reaction because i mean

look at look i think a lot of them

yes the on the the trumpers trump like

um what is a trumpism

the the the main base is like the um the

petty bourgeoisie like certain elements

certain segments of the petty

bourgeoisie but then there's also like

working-class people who are um

like kind of tricked into supporting

that

and um shit i lost my train of thought

you know where i was going with that

though very beautifully

completely yeah we should clip that make

a video

yeah but um yeah their their ideas don't

fall from the sky

so it's like the other thing is um don't

just like

talk about the destruction destruction

tear this down turn this down here this

down which is

it is part of the process but then it's

also um

the the building up the constructive

aspect of it and you know yeah you tear

down

as you tear down statues of columbus you

need to erect new statues of them

new figures that people can identify

with and um

you know and look up to

yeah i think um i just want to

emphasize one specific thing you said i

think

read learn but also you know aside from

theory which anyone who loves can give

you a bunch of recommendations

but i think history is very important i

think this one gets really neglect

neglected

especially in the west i think maul

himself

read a lot of history he actually read

much more his chinese history than he

did with uh

the classical marxist work i think um

uh well there's just much more chinese

history to read yeah but how many years

did marx live

but he begin from he began from uh

history i think

then then he encountered um he really

starts

encountering marxism that's why i mean i

think

especially the history not not just of

socialist countries but all of them

exactly no you know you need to

understand the history of your own

community and your own especially

especially that's that's why i highly

highly recommend this can't be said

enough

harry haywood's black bolshevik because

it's it's got

everything in it it's got theory and

it's got history he's lived through a

lot he's i mean he's went to he he went

to spain to fight in their civil war he

fought in world war one he's um

studied revolution in like the soviet

union he's met stalin for example he's

um

seen the rise in the demise of the cpu

usa

so it's um what's important what's

impressive about his book is um how

you know you get to see how like he

um used what he learned and then tried

to apply it to like the history of the

united states

and you learn a lot of history about not

just the soviet union but like about

the the united states the black belt you

know

that sort of stuff so one last thing

about um

you know trusting the people i think i

want and also respond to

um leon leonardo setting the chat a

little bit

when uh on the um wall street bets the

shorting thing um in the past couple of

weeks

um again i think

you know the left has this inherent

arrogance they see something going on

with

a bunch of really pissed off young

people on reddits or

trying to do something to fuck up wall

street and they just wave their hands oh

no they're just

doing capitalism oh no they're not um

they're not

they don't know about socialism they're

not doing extra damage

i think it's wrong to have this attitude

i think you should be

humble first and see what is actually

going on

and um because for

from for my view it doesn't matter

what how many money was won or lost

during that whole thing what happened is

you know

everybody can see just how rigged the

stock market and the wall street is to

the point that they would literally

uh ban you from buying buying um from

trading and

literally selling off your shares with

all your permission

all these things are very important to

expose to people too

uh just because people want to earn some

money to become rich i mean everybody

wants that

right that's that's the dream that's the

um you know

you know in 20th century china everybody

want to have a

good land and work by themselves too

like these are

desires that are real these are real

things you cannot just go in and dismiss

people like that i had a point to that

yeah go ahead um the thing is um

unless someone like is proven to be like

just

beyond reform and just should be

isolated

start with points of agreement and work

for work from there

you know like if you see somebody who um

just

who supports spiden for example

i mean oh okay a lot of them are shit

but um

and just just like a lot of people who

support trump are shit but

hey but if there is potential start with

points of agreement

hey i hate trump too i hate the

republicans

but this is why um this approach

you know i understand where maybe where

you're coming from but have you maybe

heard of this perspective and then

kind of re-evaluate these things and

just hear here's some things that maybe

we should all think about

and then if somebody you know voted for

trump against hillary which not too hard

i mean

how can you like hillary but um still

um i mean still like a lot of trump

supporters aren't like um trump is

a lot of trump supporters suck but i

mean there's there's an element of

among them which is just hey we've been

screwed over by like

all these lofty promises by obama and

hillary doesn't seem to have a message

biden doesn't have a message but trump

has a message i don't agree with the

message but he had he but at least he

has a message

then um that he's not going to carry out

but he still had one on the left it's

like hey

we hate we we hate obama too we hate

hillary too we hate bite and we

hate the democrats and um we but

this but but the republicans aren't too

different

actually and this is why this this this

just kind of plant the seeds

they're not i mean they're not gonna

like probably most likely they're not

gonna be all like oh stalin's great

but at the very least you know

you get you plant the seeds because

political development starts i think in

the case of all of us is when we

the more disillusioned we become the

more we seek answers and like with the

whole thing about like why people start

turning towards like

you know like um social democracy or

like bernie sanders and stuff or

or what or why why are people so drawn

to um drawn to conspiracy theories

well because conspiracies still exist

but then a lot of those conspiracy

theories are wrong but they're drawn to

it because they

feel that something is wrong but they

don't necessarily have all

they're not necessarily connecting the

thoughts in the right way so then they

they start you know they feel like this

thing offers some answers so they get

drawn to it so what we do

is we need to come in and give answers

or give like some give some direction

you know

all right so start off with points of

agreement and then work from there

you'll have an easier time and you'll

probably piss less people off i should

follow that advice more i tend to um

i tend to tell people to fuck off on on

twitter oh hot which is why um which is

why i'm

um locked out for 12 for 12 hours or two

more hours now but

like what you just said most people have

good intentions

even trump supporters even if they do i

don't know bad things

their shit or whatever

get some work with in chinese you know

renjitus

yeah and also not only you should

educate others oftentimes dialogue goes

both ways you can learn almost as

sometimes you can even learn more from

people who you think you know less

just go to them and talk you can learn

more yourself

that's why they support reaction yeah

for example why why were they swayed to

voting for trump

like certain individuals i mean

everyone's case is different

and then like figure out like how this

could be prevented with other people

yeah all right um

i think uh do we either have you

advertised your twitter already here

if not go ahead um

we will link it anywhere in the

description but yeah i mean advertise my

twitter

yeah yeah yeah yeah oh let me find um so

i can i can

it's uh is it s naught's showing you

right

yeah i'll write it down

i'm gonna make your handwriting a little

bit neater

follow his follow this guy's twitter

it is at not changi

is it going to be focused yes

because um i've been suspended two times

and i'm not supposed to make new

accounts

so just saying it's not me

and um you can my my other links like my

own spotify

my um bandcamp youtube and all that

stuff it's in the link tree link

on my on twitter

okay i pinned it so does anyone have

any last comment

all right then um

music promotion

do you have any music propulsion i mean

the links the links in my own in my uh

twitter

bio oh links yeah

there's a link free link that goes to

like my youtube and all that stuff so

yeah if you're interested no need no

neat feet i do not have only fans

alright so i can afford air conditioning

okay so someone asked the last question

i'm going to try to answer this

it seems china is now shifting to focus

more on tackling some of the

contradiction that

came from the growth era do you think

china is entering kind of a new state or

just natural adjustment

um i don't believe something like that

can just be natural adjustments

um it's definitely enter there's

definitely a lot of new development in

china

um on one hand yes china is always

constant reform reform reform they're

always

adjusting and adjust it's kind of a joke

about chinese people we're always

reforming but at the same time um

[Music]

the current ills of

from the growth era um

you know the fact that you can even

address there was a growth era means

that

you're currently in a different era

right like you're doing something new

um so you know it's hard to

it's very difficult to summarize or even

just to express

what this new error intel but it's

definitely something new

all right okay so guys sorry about the

um

technical issues it's um my first time

and um

and this is our first live um

live show with a guest and um

like everybody should say thank you to

xiaomi one more time uh for

having the generosity to come come up

with us

and share his uh insights and experience

well thank you all for inviting me and

um seeing me as someone

i'm just i'm just some guy you know i'm

not like some sort of like

we're all just saying yeah i i don't

feel like my insights like that

you know that special or that good but

you know thanks for

yeah all right

you have more followers than we do so

thank all of um and thank you all to all

viewers i guess 40

40 odd viewers for um you know just

being engaged and everything and asking

all those good questions and

[Music]

you