Haz vs Chevenitsu1 | InfraredShow Debate

what

thank you for the five by the way what

yeah i can hear

what do you want

i i don't care you're on your phone what

do you want

you said what did you say again you said

you wanted to debate me so what do you

want

you want to debate me in person or

something right

okay

what about her

there was multiple

i i don't remember what do you want

okay whatever um

so um like i'm a capitalist change my

mind

uh why should i change your mind

because you need your party to grow

i don't need you

okay you're a cat let let me entertain

this you're a capitalist right

yes

what do you sell

my services

what are what are your services

i drive for ubereats

and you're happy working class you're

happy with your life

this job is

okay i guess

so what do you want from me

i'm talking to people who are not happy

with the current state of affairs if

you're good with everything

and you don't think there needs to be a

political change

okay well i do though

that's why i'm watching you obviously

no

get your bag

do what you got to do to survive but

i'm just saying

when you say you're a capitalist what

does that mean

i

want to reduce my expenses and increase

my profits

so do i

why

yeah i'm the same way i do i want to do

that too

how is that

that's just living life

yeah i'm in austin right now and how do

you how do you define capitalism then

yeah

we agree on a definition

okay capitalism is a society

that pursues profit

as the ends of all economic activity

just profit

so if you think that's life then

is are you okay with it still

um

what do you mean okay with it i think

there's internal contradictions to that

type of society

which is why and i think that society is

like

internally contradictory and has the

seeds of its own destruction

so when is the destruction happening

um i think it's been happening actually

for the past 150 years

i think capitalism has done more to

subvert itself

and undermine itself

more than any other system in the

history of the world

give me some examples then

sure um capitalist crisis leads to the

wholesale

devastation of capital right it leads to

bankruptcy and the loss of profits

um

and the form of private property it

leads to tremendous increased

socialization of labor

and society as a whole

um i don't want property or capital to

concentrate at all

um

or is it more nuanced than that

am i too loud or yeah i i think the so i

think there's like this issue where

people have this idea that

you you can just choose

what society is gonna be based on what

you want

but we you have to get down like what

the reality is in the first place don't

you

okay then

what do you want change then

i don't

what do you mean it's not that i want

what i want change is the third party in

politics that's what i want a third

party

okay that's where i think will that's

why i think someone's will can actually

like be of decisive significance but in

terms of

capitalism capitalism isn't something

that's overthrown on the basis of you

know someone's will or someone's want

capitalism is a historical mode of

production that

um

is only you know turns into something

else in a material way right

now

like in terms of what you want

that's not going to be reducible that

you can't reduce material reality to

what you want

caleb answer these kinds of questions

much more fun

caleb answers questions much more

clearly how's getting too vague and

theoretical yeah because i got two hours

of sleep you dumb [ __ ] conversely you

know you're such a stupid speculating

[ __ ] come back in seven days how about

that

but

i'm so uh hold on i'm gonna meet for a

second

i'm gonna meet for a second give me a

second

i'm so [ __ ] sick of speculation andes

who always every time there's a very

clear cause of an issue and usually it's

just i'm tired

or something like that they always get

into speculating they always get into

speculating what the issue what's the

problem

speculation andy's you little stupid

[ __ ]

shut the [ __ ] up

you don't

you're not you're not aware of something

no one else is aware of i just didn't

get sleep

i really just want to think about

pokeman right now if i'm gonna be honest

i don't care about anything except

pokeman right now

okay

because i only have time

to focus on one thought at a time

i can't think about it's hard okay it's

hard to even talk right now i'm so

[ __ ] tired

okay

so speculation andy's get the [ __ ] out

of here you understand okay let's

continue

all right

so yeah

when you talk

huh

do you want to do a video call no um

anyway

okay so

the issue with what so in terms of

you're saying what do i want

i want to

contribute to

building a third party and and why do

you not care about my vote

because

i think most

people in america are not the type who

are like

oh yeah you know i'm here's that here's

where i stand now convince me otherwise

i think if you're really interested in

being convinced

like

you have to prove why i should convince

you specifically right okay

out of everyone else because i'm i'm

saying capitalism is a better way to

you have to like prove that your views

represent what the majority of people

think

okay so

do you think i'm working class

yeah

i would say so why why am i working

class

okay sorry um

is somebody in india like a

a customer service

over the telephone in india of working

class

um

i i think

if there was an equivalent job to that

in the us we would call them that but

i don't know what words they use in

india to describe the various classes

they have a lot less than we are listen

listen

here's what i'm trying to get at the

word working class is a very colloquial

cultural term

so so in this country when people say in

this country when people say the working

class

they're referring to something

that's cultural and colloquial right and

we tend to describe certain jobs as

working class jobs

and

other jobs is not working class jobs

right namely salaried professional

whatever

now in india

as far as people working in the call

center is concerned

um

there's other examples of this too like

there's bots of people who play video

games they get you know

they do power leveling and [ __ ] right

there's whole like farms of them

getting paid like dirt cheap to do kind

of stuff like that

now in in terms of

america

no it happens in third world countries

or developing countries like you want

the cp usa right just in america or the

whole world or what is this

this okay this the cpusa is called the

communist party of the usa

so are you on isolationist or

am i isolationist because i don't

want the communist party of the usa to

to be global it's the communist party of

the usa what do you mean well i heard

you say like

other countries shouldn't

like

care about other countries or something

like that

that's not really what i said what i

said is that we shouldn't treat

um

sovereign countries internal affairs

as

part of the jurisdiction of the

government we have because it's not

so you don't like things like the u.n

well use the u.n then

do it through the u.n agree with what

the u.n does that's what i'm trying to

yeah but everyone who's in the u.n is on

in the u.n on the basis voluntarily

right they're there voluntarily

they can leave the u.n if they want

there's no like u.n that's forcing

people to follow u.n rules and u.n laws

you're you're there voluntarily

um okay then why did iraq happen if

sorry if i'm getting facts wrong but i'm

just tired it happened because the u.s

doesn't care about international laws

and international norms and and doesn't

care about respecting uh international

you know if the party was in charge

would you

be would you leave the u.n would you

stay in the u.n

we would probably stay in the u.n

obviously but hypothetically in iraq

hypothetically [ __ ] not

okay how are you going to convince the

rest of the un to

like be okay with it

what what do you mean

i don't vote together to like to do some

kind of action right

no

that's not how it works dude

okay well then tell me how it works the

us doesn't

ask the un's permission to do this kind

of [ __ ]

well then how does the un decide to do

things

um they vote on resolutions and stuff

and they you know

that's how they do it

gets a vote

yeah

okay so does nato vote together or

how does it work bricks or

that third one

i think we should leave nato definitely

i am fully for the dissolution of nato

okay but then you would would you lose

power in the u.n if you did that

no you wouldn't

they're completely separate things

okay um

let's go back to the us

uh

let's see

okay so i'm how i'm working class how am

i am i representative of the majority of

the us or what's up with that

i don't know enough about you right like

what i just asked me questions

okay

so what is you so how old are you

30

uh

and are you educated

yes

you're in debt

like five hundred dollars

okay yeah and i mean i don't mean like

that

student debt oh

yeah that's the student debt i guess but

i'm never gonna pay that um

by how much

i said five hundred dollars it's not

even much they try to charge me like the

quarter after i graduated or some stupid

crap like that so why are you working

uber eats

because uh i applied to like 200 jobs

and good jobs

says that

like no one called me back or whatever

what are you qualified to do

managerial work

like just be a manager

yeah or any type of work like i guess

ceo or

area manager account managers you know

anything like that what's your family

background

uh both my parents are from mexico

i mean the class background

uh

my parents moved here when they were

younger maybe around the 70s

we we just started

we first bought

our house in like

2012.

it's still not paid off yet we have like

so ar you're not are you like an artist

type of person or

what are you

uh

you went to school to just

what did you get a degree in

uh business administration with a

special and uh

um

yeah i mean what city you live in you

don't mind me asking

miranda valley that's next to riverside

i've never heard of it so that's answers

it oh so okay um do you know san

bernardino it's the inland empire that's

the

yeah i would say you're working class

yeah i would say you're working class

okay so why don't you need my vote

um

well

let me try to think i'm telling you

right now um

it's not that i don't need people and

it's not that i don't need your vote

because your class position

it's just that

i if you're not interested in the first

place like

i am interested i'm i'm trying to

convince people through the street i'm

trying to convince people through the

stream itself like i can't talk to

everyone individually so if you come on

and you're like

yeah but if you talk to somebody in my

class they would relate to that and then

vote towards your side

true but the reason i respond that way

is just because uh

you just came in and you're like oh i'm

a capitalist convince me otherwise and

it's just like well if you're if we

throw my other messages on stream and

see what i said

i

i'm dude i just got off a [ __ ] flight

and

i mean i didn't type that much it was

probably like

10 messages dude listen i got two hours

of sleep and i came back from a flight

so i'm not i i don't have a lot of time

to devote to your

message you know your discord message

but

um

i'm serious they're like not even

they're like fragment sentences

i think the the way i approach it is

that i don't try to pander to people and

i i trust people's intuition so like

you have to be interested in the first

place if i'm not actually doing a good

job of making people interested

and getting their attention then i don't

think i'm doing a good job in the first

place right i can't if you're said in

your beliefs and i haven't made a dent

in your beliefs

at all just

that's what i'm saying okay okay well

okay

well what what makes sense to me and

when it relates to me is that you're

basically talking about capitalism so is

marx

yeah yeah how does that not sound like

pull yourself up by your bootstraps

um

like working as a farmer and gaining

some type of money to expand and

yeah i think the the issue is

historically is um

in order to pull yourself up by your

bootstraps

you need a baseline like no one ever

just begins from nothing right

people have a baseline that's a that's

based on a social norm right so in the

history of the united states

uh at a certain point in history that

baseline was the land that could be

claimed by settlers according to

what it was called if you moved out west

and you claimed land you just have that

land

okay

um

and that was the basis for a lot of the

ability for people here to

[Music]

you know get rich and and make a fortune

for themselves or at least the homestead

act yeah to have an opportunity to

become capitalists in the first place

right

but if you don't have anything like that

if you don't have like a form of

starting capital

then it's not possible to become a

capitalist and just be a farmer you know

i guess it can be in really miraculous

situations especially with

people who just

with a combination of extremely hard

work and luck because i'm sorry luck

does play a big factor in that

yeah you could you can rise to the top

but

you know that's not

it's not going to you're not going to

have nearly as many people be able to do

that

who don't have some kind of

starting economic base to start from

did you do you think i had an economic

base to start from

no

so how did i make it just luck and hard

work but i thought you'd do ubereats

wait

can you specify a little bit more

my reasoning of doing ubereats

it's like a desperation to make more

money or what do you mean by that

i asked you what you do for a living and

so i assume that you do that for a

living i didn't know you did it as like

a hobby

uh yeah pretty much kind of

okay so

so you're you already made it pretty

much

well i wouldn't say so the house isn't

paid all the way

and if there's a housing crisis like

why did i not sell the house that would

be stupid how how have you um

sorry bear with me here how have you uh

how are you paying off the house right

now

like how are you making money right now

social security

bruh come on man

you got social security you're doing

ubereats and that's the only way you're

making money

yeah how else should i make money

nah i'm not judging you i'm just saying

i don't think you became like a

capitalist and you made it

unless i'm missing something unless

you're unless you're doing the uber in a

lambo

i don't know if that's an example of

somebody who's made it let me tell you

why it's because

you know

you should not have to be

you should not have to be like

how much do you work a

um it depends because of like the

shortage and sometimes you don't get um

i guess eight i could i could

theoretically work 16 hours a day if i

got deliveries constantly yeah bro but

you don't you know you don't you don't

need to be

doing those you know you don't need to

be working

such long hours doing such a dumb job

like uber eats

you know you just said you just said you

got educated and you managed to i don't

know how you got the money you obviously

college is a scam dude bro how did you

pay for college

uh

government programs fafsa

and you that only left you a 500 in debt

did you go to community college yes okay

okay i got you i didn't take any student

loans i'm not that stupid but as you can

see the community college didn't get you

a degree

that's that's getting you

high quality jobs

oh no i have a bachelor's yeah

that's associates and bachelors are

different community colleges i know i

know you got a bachelor's but

yeah

what

you can't get hired right now there's no

jobs yeah

yeah even mbas are

having the same issue yeah i mean

you know when i say when i when i talk

about capitalism and stuff i'm mainly

talking about the fact that i think

people like you are getting ripped off

you know you pay taxes right or no you

probably don't have to don't do you i do

because of racing yeah yeah

so you pay taxes so you pay taxes into

this government with your hard work

and so this government ideally is

supposed to be doing everything it can

to help people like you right whatever

is in its power to you know

work for you

right but it doesn't do that

instead

it focuses on maintaining

the system of

financial capital for the

monopolists and for the financial

capitalists at wall street

the rest of the country be damned

so

what do you think is a good timeline to

change this am i going to have to wait

15 years for something to change

well

i i don't i would not place your bets

for having change on politics and that's

what i tell everyone

if you want to devote your pal to me the

the people so if you want to devote your

life for the political cause

that's a matter of belief and conviction

and devotion and and things like that

but

do you have that belief

i do yes personally i do

and how how is your party going to take

power if everyone's blackpilled

because they're not they're not making

enough money

i think

politics and this is going to come as a

shock to a lot of people

but politics is not actually about

um

uh

how good your life is or how you know

comfortable you are politics is about

this kind of war for

meaning right it's it's not it's almost

kind of like it reminds me of like when

the joker's like it's about the message

right

but that's really what politics is it's

like

it's not even about

what the policies are or anything like

that it's about the message it's about

what it means right

um it's about the contradictions and the

people in power and it's about the truth

of what they're saying and and whatever

it's almost like ontological right it's

like it's almost like this question of

like our being itself like what are we

even right

it's like answering this question of who

we are in the first place

this is a this is a vicious what i

always tell people is that right now we

in a dog-eat-dog world it's a vicious

world and if you're a normal working

class person like yourself i would never

ask you to

you're hustling every day right you

don't have time to work for you know the

communist party and do all that [ __ ]

all i would say is that i would if i

paid money yeah yeah that's what i mean

it's like so you focus on your life and

you know that's what you got to do out

here to survive right that's why most

left is you probably know this too

they're privileged i come from a

privileged background myself right most

leftists do have the time to put time

aside and

you know focus on this [ __ ]

but so why why do your people follow you

if

i mean if you're already like say you're

a higher class than me yeah i am your

people follow you this sounds like just

like

[ __ ] and like uh

virtue signaling

i mean

at the end of the day

it's about what i'm saying right and

it's about what i'm saying in relation

to

what i would consider this kind of class

struggle and i think that's what i why i

resonate with so many people

um

but

yeah i come from a very privileged

background actually um i would say so at

least

and do you help people

with your

background like do you help um

let's just say i don't i don't

i have in the past

where i can't believe i'm not like super

super like the point where i can just

it's like i come from a very privileged

background in the sense of like

being okay for myself right i don't have

extra to him

give to other people yeah yeah

what do you mean like uh

dollar amounts you can't give five bucks

or something like that what do you mean

i mean

i guess i could i get i don't know what

the limit on that would be but i'm not

like swimming in gold i still have to

like make money and pay bills and [ __ ]

like that it's just when i say i come

from a privileged background i mean like

i don't have i didn't have to worry

about student debt and that's a big

thing for undergrad right

and well i didn't kind of either so

wouldn't that make us the same then no

because

i grew up in a nice town

um so it had a nice school

which helped me go to a good college

um do you

do you have like an mba or a jd yet

no i i have an mba

bachelors but i was in the process of

getting a jd

but i i took a year leave and

after

by next fall i'll make the decision

whether i want to go back or not

based on how the streaming stuff works

but

i think you know the streaming is good

enough to not become a lawyer dude

yeah that's what i suspect but i'm still

gonna wait it out

dude

you you obviously know how much you make

and it's gonna be way more than a lawyer

how is this not i listen i'm very

successful right now but i don't know

how long term that's gonna be so i'm

still waiting you guys are so insecure

bro i'm just saying i took a i'm not

willing to drop out just yet because

gamers are so insecure dude

yeah

i guess but uh what i was saying is um

what i would tell somebody like you who

comes from a working class background

you're working and you're getting by

is

people like you are always being do you

vote

yes you actually vote

yeah local or federal

both

um

well i would say what the time you

already spend devoting to this stuff

because i'm sure you already spent some

time to it i'm not saying you do more

just with what you're already doing

um

you know you don't have to

get with the program is what i'm trying

to say it's like

when they tell you hey you gotta go vote

democrat or hey you gotta go virtue

signal for the democrats and you have to

assume this is only possible you don't

have to that's what i mean it's like

you can not vote or you can vote for an

alternative third party or you can you

know and it may seem like you're wasting

or when you talk about politics with

people

you know you don't

have to assume that

dude you already blackpilled me on this

[ __ ]

yeah i mean

i guess that's a matter of like

philosophy or religion then because

communism or whatever politics it's not

going to solve your issues personally

and why pursue it

i mean look let me put it this way dude

if

for me

i don't have to worry about money but

you know like

i would love i mean actually i wouldn't

love it but

for me communism not gonna solve the

issue that right now in this time my

life

there is a

very noticeable lack of big booty

[ __ ] in my life

and it ain't gonna solve that problem

that's a personal issue

well yeah

well in a classical sense because you

would that ain't that ain't gonna solve

[ __ ] that's just a personal issue you

know if you were the leader of super usa

and the president you would get all the

[ __ ] you want no no

literally no that's

have you ever heard of jfk right or any

of the kennedy family

bro that's called corruption that's

called like that's being a sex that's

that's dude at that point i don't even

believe in it anymore if i'm doing that

right because at that point you're how

many women do you want

because i'm trying to tell you that

your personal life

and your politics are not

the same thing

personal this policy is not going to

solve your personal issues

is what i'm trying to say

i don't get how you're not sounding like

a hypocrite right now i'm sorry dude

it's not that it's hypocrisy it's just

that they're different things

politics is one thing your personal life

is another thing

but you personally make money off of

politics how is it not your personal

life you said you were paranoid earlier

and you drove an hour back home or

something crap like that did that not

have to do with politics

yes it's intertwined with your stream

yes but but even then

that's because i'm very transparent with

my viewers about what the long-term like

for example what am i living for it's to

build a media company right in the media

comp like i'm very transparent about

them about what this is all for and what

it's about

yeah so you're intertwining your

personal life with politics

not really because

in terms of

i guess like let me put it this way it's

gonna sound like

[Music]

not convincing but it's like

me being able to

not have to worry ab you know about

money and and

to a certain extent i guess and just be

able to sit and stream all day

that's because of the product like

that's not i'm not doing this to be able

to like

you know not have to work and be in that

situation

i'm doing it to build a media company

right i'm doing it to build this

infrared thing that i believe in and

that's like that's a byproduct of that

i'm not doing it

on this now

huh

you stake your entire life on this or if

yeah

um

if it fails then i yeah i'll consider my

options and i'll just go back to law

school

oh i wish you the best but

you know um

i don't know if i yeah i mean i got a

scholarship to law school

so you know that's why it's really hard

for me to just throw that away because

it's just

dude twitch streamers sounds so [ __ ]

entitled then

yeah well i don't

i don't know why like i got a

scholarship dude that's that's not

something you'd want to throw away

and can i ask you uh some personal

questions yeah yeah go ahead okay do you

know anyone who viewbots

um

no

[Music]

have you ever heard of anyone

viewbotting

no i know what it is though but i've

never heard of anyone using it

um uh well

okay

because

i believe that

to start some

twitch streamers before they become

vague viewbot

yeah i don't

i don't know uh

i don't know anything about that

okay that's on record

all right that's it

okay

um

bye

bye

okay

that was a really weird conversation