Witnessing Micheal Tracey's UTTER DEFEAT

[Music]

Let's Dance

we're only watching the skies hoping for

the best but expecting the worst are you

gonna drop the bomb or not

let us live forever foreign

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foreign

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gone one

stay young

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forever

so many advantages

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eyes

I want to be forever young

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forever

forever

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forever

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like

a baby

foreign

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foreign

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foreign

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foreign

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[Applause]

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so many dreams

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do You Really Wanna Live Forever Forever

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[Applause]

foreign

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[Applause]

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the music

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You Really Wanna Live Forever Forever

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foreign

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Forever

Forever Young

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Heaven can't wait we're only watching

the skies hoping for the best but

expecting the words are you gonna drop

the bombs

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can you imagine when this race

[Music]

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forever

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melodies

[Music]

[Music]

in the Sun

forever

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forever

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do You Really Wanna Live Forever

Forever

Forever Young

[Music]

Heaven can't wait we only watching the

skies hoping for the best but expecting

the words are you gonna drop the bombing

lines

[Music]

[Music]

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You Really Wanna Live Forever Forever

[Music]

melodies

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heart

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land

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do You Really Wanna Live Forever

Forever

Forever Young

Let's Dance

[Music]

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the music's for the sad man

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praising our leaders

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me forever young

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forever foreign

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it's like diamonds

are forever

so many advantages

[Music]

I want to be forever young foreign

[Music]

foreign

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[Music]

hey what the fuck is up it's been a long

goddamn fucking time basically took a

week off we're here now low energy

fucking chat I'm seeing let me see those

fucking Sun gorillas in the goddamn

fucking chat let me see the sun gorillas

in the goddamn chat I've got a new

perspective on things guys I got a lot

of shit to tell you about yeah we're

gonna be able to react to the Michael

Tracy debate I got my setup all together

although I might have to get a camera

because this camera setup is not exactly

working as attended what the fuck is up

everybody we're here infrared is here

infrared is the vision infrared is the

brand and let me tell you guys something

let me tell you guys something

I've come to a realization and I've come

to a realization I am the Walt Disney of

Marxism leninism that's what I realized

I am the Walt Disney of Marxism leninism

I'm trying to make infrared the next

Disney but not for kids I'm trying to

make infrared like Disney motherfucker

and I'm not talking about Universal I'm

talking about like Disney okay so I am

the Walt Disney of Marxism leninism okay

I've got a whole new perspective a whole

new shit to share but first of all where

the fuck is zielinsky Potter because the

lensky Potter was supposed to pull up to

Universal Studios

uh uh Harry Potter World and shit let me

tell you what fucking happened with that

all right so I made the mistake of going

to that Park yesterday and yeah I

brought the set up I was planning on

streaming it and everything let me tell

you I don't know if it was a holiday or

what but it went differently in my head

than what it was in real life because in

real life

that shit was packed like sardines I

could not get attention on myself if I

even fucking tried I was thinking it's

gonna be kind of no dude anytime you

imagine one of these fucking theme parks

remember it's gonna be body to body

packed like fucking sardines you cannot

stream there period okay I could not

fucking stream there the connection was

fucking dog shit but even if it wasn't

the situation was like you can't you

can't just walk around Hogwarts and

Troll and be fucking zelenski that was

not a very good experience I'm not gonna

lie I I don't regret going there because

I'm planning on throwing my own event

this year the carnival thing and I want

to get a lot of perspective and ideas

when it comes to how I'm going to be

doing that and integrating that with the

infrared theme I just it was a good

experience overall but you could not

fucking stream that shit you could not

fucking stream that shit and that's why

that didn't happen and I I was so

disappointed by that I didn't even want

to tell you guys what fucking happened

because I was so disappointed but I'm

telling it to you now that shit

disappointed the fuck out of me that I

couldn't stream zelenski Potter

foreign

packed I didn't think it was I thought

it was going to be kind of like

not too heavily dense or whatever but it

was you know and

basically theme parks

overall I wouldn't say it's worth it if

you got kids take them to Disney don't

don't there's no reason to be going to

Universal it's I I can that's a zero out

of ten and some crazy shit you're

getting theme park ratings for me right

now but

it just ain't no reason to go and that

was my perspective for most of my adult

life actually

until very recently and it's very

mysterious guys because I just get

sudden epiphanies and I came to Florida

with Nadia right

I didn't even like spend anything pretty

much just a plane ticket

um

and

it's like I saw a light bulb went off in

my head thank you solely fuck by the way

crack dealer thank you so much for the

50 brother I see that 50. thank you so

much brother partner thank you so much

for the 20 gift appreciate you brother

but a light bulb went off in my head and

for some fucking reason I was like

I gotta go to Disney World I gotta go

fucking to Orlando and see what all that

shit is about and I didn't fully

rationalize it in my head but there's

just some fucking thing that was drawing

me there for some reason I was like you

know what we gotta go to that shit

and I went to it when I was a kid when I

was a child so it's not like I'm like oh

I'm missing out I want to go experience

that it's more like I gotta do it and

now I re I'm starting to realize why I

had to do it

I had to do it because as I'm making

merch

for infrared which is what I'm doing by

the way right and I'm understanding how

infrared is relating to your lives and

our universe basically I think there's

something very very very special and

important about Disney if you want to

understand socialism in the 21st century

I I kind of went on a tangent yesterday

but like I'm so convinced now that I

actually went to the park I went to

Epcot and I went to Animal Kingdom and

it's like holy fuck that has inspired me

so much in terms of

what I plan to do with The Branding

thank you so much Sage here's to the

Disney of Marxism

thank you appreciate you man and what do

I mean by that is that I'm so impressed

by Disney I was so impressed one of

those parks by the Thematic consistency

of it and I almost feel like I'm an

anthropologist I'm going there and I'm

documenting the adult Disney the Disney

uh adult phenomena right the prolonged

adolescence the Disney plus adult they

love Disney and I didn't go to I

couldn't stomach going to the Star Wars

one even though that probably would have

been better for documenting what I

wanted to I have to at least enjoy it a

little bit so I went to Animal Kingdom

and I went to Epcot I had no I I it

probably would have been better for

research purposes thanks so much sir

appreciate you I just got that dictator

yeah it probably would have been thank

you so much sir probably would have been

better for research purposes to pull up

to the Star Wars one which is latest and

greatest but I I can only stomach so

much right I want to enjoy it a little

bit too while I'm fucking there I don't

want a fucking miserable like I can't be

inspired if I can't enjoy it and I did I

didn't enjoy it I enjoyed the animal

kingdom and being with animals and shit

but

I have a whole new perspective now and

it's I have a very clear direction as

far as how I want to deal with infrared

branding and merch because I'm starting

to understand how this shit works

first of all I want to tell you guys

something anyone who fucking tells you

that Disney's just a capitalist

corporation that wants to make a profit

is fucking full of shit Disney's not

trying to turn a profit when you go to

Disney World and there's like a a statue

of Mickey Mouse

that cost five hundred dollars it's not

that they're trying to get huge margins

actually it's that there's a big fucking

demand

and

it's like supply and demand there's just

a huge fucking demand for it and it's

almost like Disney gives you this

feeling that not that they're trying to

make money off of you which they're not

I don't think at least right

that's a very Antiquated cynical way of

looking at it it's not that they're

trying to make money off you they're

trying to sustain the coherent brand of

Disney they're trying to sustain they're

not trying to actually make any they're

not trying to make more profits for

prophet's sake they're trying to expand

the Disney Enterprise and Empire and

Corporation for the corporation Zone's

sake and that is a primitive obviously

we've talked about it before a form of

Socialism

guys so I have a really fucked up janky

um camera setup that has to be refreshed

maybe every like 20 minutes so keep that

in mind

I'm gonna figure out why that is and why

it's just constantly freezing up

probably gonna have to go to Best Buy

and get a camera but that's okay

fuck I'm so sorry I got the hiccups

holy fuck okay we're good anyway guys

listen

um Disney's not just trying to turn a

fucking profit

uh they are trying to sustain the

experience and the the best way I could

understand this is waiting in lines when

you go to these parks and you're waiting

in the fucking line to

to experience uh

to experience the ride or whatever you

you start to realize like this is a high

demand there's a lot of people that want

this

and why they want it cannot be explained

in capitalistic terms capitalism tends

to only be able to explain

the whole um the cap the model of

capitalist analysis tends to only be

able to explain already captured markets

that are just assumed to be a given and

yeah some of them are part of leisure

and ways above like people want to drink

tea for example right

but it mainly revolves around the modern

Bourgeois subjects needs right well when

you're talking about Disney you're

dealing with a different kind of need

altogether that can't be explained in

traditionally capitalist terms where you

do deal with a scenario where it really

does feel like the Disney Corporation

doesn't want to make doesn't want to

create Disney to make profit they want

to make profit to keep to make Disney

and and keep Disney sustained right

and Universal I probably is more of a

capitalistic Enterprise but even then

the capitalism is sublimated I thought

also understanding The Branding for

Universal was very important and

interesting if only to contrast it and

help myself understand better how it

differs from the Disney one right but we

are plagued with the phenomena right now

in this country with the Disney adults

and you have to think about the millions

and millions and people for whom

Disney is necessary to fucking stay

alive to cope with life right and then I

thought of something I was talking to

Nadia in the car actually

guys once if you can't hear me or some

shit

I was talking to Nadia in the car about

this and I was saying

you know what

all of the Disney adults in Harry Potter

fandom

everything their heart is searching for

and what they're basically searching for

is a way to cope with

what Zizek will call the reality of

fiction the reality of virtuality or the

actuality of virtuality the fact that

our plain reality is not enough and it

needs to give rise to some kind of

fictionalized and I call it thematized

interface in order for us to deal and

understand with our everyday

surroundings

basic modern or post-modern whatever you

want to call it Contemporary American

subjectivity revolves keep it keep can

you guys fucking listen to me and make

sure you're paying attention

the typical persons I'm going to just

put this in stupid terms so everyone can

understand

the typical person

is understanding and and perspective on

the world for the typical person right

is based on

this horrible excess that comes with

living in the world and participating in

society

that is the excess of virtuality

that requires

our world to have a theme

and that theme

is what gives people a sense of meaning

and intentionality behind things so in

other words in our ordinary reality it's

very boring and it's very dreary and

it's very empty right somehow there's

this excess of virtuality we have to

address in some kind of way

which

um

which we use it's like a form of goggles

we put on in order for our world to be

bearable right and for it to make sense

to us

okay

and

Disney and Harry Potter are about that

that's what Disney and Harry Potter is

about

Disney specifically the Disney brand

is the most powerful brand I think in

America I don't think there's more power

please guys throw something out there

that you think is a more powerful brand

in America than Disney because you can

say what about McDonald's well

McDonald's is for food what about Apple

Apple comes close but at the end of the

day Apple will always revolve around

technology almost exclusively

and you come to think about it

and well I mean Disney encompasses

everything if they made a Disney iPhone

people would fucking buy it

BlackRock is not a a brand if people

made of Henry Ford Burger I don't think

people would fucking buy it but if

someone made a Disney Burger I think

they would fucking buy it right Nintendo

that is interesting

but it's not American that's Japanese

although I will say Nintendo probably is

close I think right

but you have to think about I don't know

if there's a technical term for this I'm

not like a

I'm not like well versed in the specific

field of study to be to know the terms

but the BR what is it brand liquidity or

something like that like you can slap

the Disney label to fucking anything

anything and you will

change the nature of the thing

to make it desirable

and that is not true for any other

fucking brand I don't think

I don't think that's true for any other

brand if you had a Disney

um

uh housing complex

brand loyalty kind of right but um

I don't think no Mike dude why are you

saying Microsoft would you eat a fucking

Microsoft Burger

you probably wouldn't would you get the

Microsoft phone they tried to launch a

phone it fucking failed right Microsoft

is not a powerful brand at all actually

Microsoft is the worst example of this

because Microsoft is a brand that we

just have to tolerate because it's

pre-installed on our fucking computers

nobody actually likes or feels you know

that Microsoft enriches the brand I mean

enriches their world the recognizability

of the Microsoft brand comes from the

fact that it's basically this bloatware

that's already pre-installed on our on

our Hardware that we buy which we need

so it's like a brand Monopoly

sports sports do come close

I'll I'll give you that Sports Come

Close like a team a sports team right

but the problem with sports teams

they're not Universal you could just you

can then say the NFL thank you so much

dimitrion looking good bro

thank you so much dimitro I appreciate

you bro you could say like the NFL right

um but I don't I think the teams are all

owned separately so they all have their

own branding and stuff but to be honest

with you guys

here's where I'll fucking right slap you

across the face the problem with the NFL

is it's not all ages Brad brand branding

is not only across different things but

across different demographics and Disney

manages to be in for all Americans for

all Americans regardless of their age

and almost regardless of their

demographic Disney maintains the most

powerful brand thank you so much

now you Naz cash but it's not like

Disney I'll tell you that it is not like

Disney

so Disney doesn't come close

in terms of

the most powerful brands in the world I

mean sorry nothing comes close to Disney

at all and I've thought about this right

I've thought about this so I was

basically we're not you know the Maga

sorry not meaning to spoil it the Disney

adults and the Harry Potter adults

I said something to Nadia in the car

they that is what black lives matter and

all this stuff is all about by the way

all of these causes thanks so much

Tristan

all of these social justice causes and

AstroTurf causes and color Revolutions

in the United States come from this kind

of Revolution that's going on in culture

the need for reality to be thematized

the whole Crusade against cars and the

campaign for walkable cities is part of

the same Trend the basic idea that

thematically America is lacking and it's

not coherent

and Injustice like you have to think to

yourself why is a Suburban young

Suburban

child for example right

thank you so much Jan I appreciate you

why is a uh Teenage upper middle class

or Rich suburbanite so passionate about

black lives matter so Pat where does

that come from does it come from some

visceral class interest that allows them

to relate to the victims of police

brutality of course not it comes from

the fact that within their dignified

thematized universe

this is a gaping hole right the the fact

that this Injustice exists is an affront

to the Thematic coherence of what

America is so it's all about thematic

consistency because if you don't like

the idea that we live in socialism then

start

start telling yourself and start getting

on with the program about the fact that

we live

in a theme park capitalism

it's a thematized capitalism now theme

park capitalism is the same as socialism

you want to know another example of a

theme park civilization is the Soviet

Union

the Soviet I talked about this before

the Soviet Union is thematized right

um maybe you could say the same about

Nazi Germany the fascist in the case of

fascism it's similar you could probably

make that argument right

but the theme itself in it in its

content is important

so that had to be has to be analyzed

specifically for example I would say

fascism was a reaction to the end of

classical modernity and the end of the

capitalist mode of production

which tried to cope with a new socialist

mode of production but did so in a

reactionary fashion

um

so I wouldn't say fascism is socialist

in the sense that it heralded a

socialist uh superstructure it was a

capitalistic superstructure reacting to

its own foundations being transformed

but in any case

um I said something basic like all of

these liberal

Disney adults and Harry Potter fans got

what they wanted they are longing

for in America or for a country or if a

civilization that is thematized right

they are upset of the chaos of basic

bear reality and its lack of thematic

meaningfulness the fact that we have

cars everywhere oh it's not rational it

doesn't make sense the fact that there's

all this Injustice going on all of that

they only care about that because it

speaks to the lack of intentionality

behind

the society and broader world that we

live in right

yeah

sorry they're shooting my throat

so I said something I said

they actually got what they wanted and

they reject it and they can't cope with

it because Maga

is that that's exactly what Maga is

Maga is thematized politics

is Maga just America no Maga is America

as a theme park

Maga rallies are like theme parks the

Maga brand

is in a way in some sense comparable to

the Disney brand because you guys didn't

point this out when I said name a brand

more powerful than Disney

it's really Maga

that comes close

think about it you can if there's a Maga

burger right there is a Maga amusement

park people would go if there was a Maga

Hotel people would Maga is an extremely

powerful brand right

and Maga is this redoubling of America

into a theme

the idea of America as a theme America

as a brand

that is socialism my friends

that's not classical liberal capitalism

by any stretch of the imagination that

is reflective

of a socialized

thematized Community right

so

the maga maga brand right is exactly

this is what I also said to Nadia see

Nadia can't be the only recipient of my

great wisdoms I have to share it with

you guys as well

I said it's almost as if Disney World is

too expensive expensive

Disney World is too expensive so Trump

came and he gave Mickey Mouse thank you

so much Jenna would you say servicing a

brand is unproductive labor yes of

course but uh would I thank you so much

John R what I said was it's almost as if

because Disney World is too expensive

Trump who's a Prometheus he came from

the ruling class he's like a elite he

betrayed his own class and he gave

Mickey Mouse to the masses

he gave the theme parks everyone so

every Maga rally is like an amusement

park every Maga rally is a is a uh

imagineered experience in some sense

right

and when you think about it it's very

powerful because to be able to enjoy a

virtualized world

is a very expensive Endeavor you have to

have Disney plus you got to go visit the

amusement parks and stay at their hotels

you've got to buy all the merchandise

you've got to decorate everything it's

not very accessible to the masses to be

a Harry Potter fan or a Disney fan or

even a Marvel fan it's just not that

accessible

to live and dwell in a meaningful way

with intentionality so Trump pie and

yeah Maga is free Disney World is too

expensive but Maga is free right so

Trump gave Americans their own theme

and this is very powerful he was the

first politician to do that to make

America a theme

uh and that is a very very powerful

Innovation by Trump

which

is sorry

I'm fucking freezing and shit

which uh shouldn't be underestimated in

any capacity and guess what else is a

thing this is a brand right here the

infrared one except I like to use the

old globe

which I think I still have the old Globe

will always be

the old glow will always be the like I'm

doing Merch this is going to be on the

merch right

equals making my socialism

see the thing is Sue is thank you Sue is

the thing is

emirio please Ben I am funnier than you

for spamming please just fucking ban him

um

the thing is Suez all socialism is like

Mickey Mouse it's not that socialism

it's a Mickey Mouse socialism it's that

Mickey Mouse himself

is a form of

socialistic Aesthetics within capitalism

uh

I'm gonna get I'm gonna get to that more

by the way but um

what I was saying

is uh

sorry yeah yeah this is classic infrared

this will always be the classic infrared

brand

this is just the updated contemporary

version that's just more suited to the

time this brand will continually evolve

and update according to time but this

will always be the classic one right and

that's very important for me

but um infrared always I always wanted

to be

something the sixth sense to make sense

of reality because that longing to make

sense of reality is there

and that's when I realized that

it's also was a big inspiration in turn

uh wake-up calls to me because I

realized

you know

I was kind of has I wasn't hesitant but

I was kind of not prioritizing merch too

much because I was like well this is

just kind of like self gain and I'm just

making merch for myself but after me uh

visiting Disney World I'm like

you guys want the fucking merch you want

to be able to wear that shit you want to

be able to rep that infrared shit that's

what it's what you guys want right

and it's not

really a form I'm just facilitating an

ability for you guys

you know what I mean that's kind of how

I feel I understand it now

y'all want the ability to fill that

vacuum because everyone in America wants

a Disney or wants a Harry Potter or

wants a Marvel

whether it's Maga or something else or

whether it's uh the Tanki aesthetic

which is a very poor poor and pathetic

aesthetic the whole tanky one right the

tanky aesthetic

um is the worst brand right now in

America

and we're trying to take the best

elements from the Tanki brand aesthetic

but

everyone wants a brand and ideology is

no different from that it's just like

it's a really weak brand to be like an

ml in America right oh yeah hammer and

sickle

a plain old hammer and sickle and a

Soviet ushanka hat and some vodkas I

don't fucking know right it's an

extremely extremely weak brand there's

it's not thematically coherent which is

why it is oftentimes

um ideological branding is oftentimes

associated with autism because it's not

thematically consistent how can you live

and dwell in this world and and use it

as a filter to make sense of culture to

be a um

to be a brat to have this brand be the

way you interface with reality

it's too it's too narrow right

so I I think um

I'm more motivated to do this merch now

just for the sake of you know you guys I

I understand it's a Content drought

one time prism told me that there's it's

a Content drought and I was like what

are you talking about like you know

I've been doing debates I've been doing

streams and he's like no it's a Content

drought and now I understand what he

meant by that I understand what the

content drought really means now like I

get it after going to fucking Disney and

shit and like I fucking get it now you

know

2023 will be the year guarantee this to

you

merch

and events by infrared

and I'm a fucking risk taker

which means I don't I'm not gonna hoard

any money I'm gonna fucking dedicate my

resources into this

period

I care about the brand of I want to be

like Walt Disney I don't I'm not the

prophet is not the primary thing

I'm not even it's never been the primary

thing but it's just like I will take

risks

I will fucking take risks

is what I'm saying I will take high high

fuck and I always take risks you know

what I mean

the fucking Trump video

the Maga rally video I spent like 700 on

that shit total and it was worth it to

me you know

so I will take risks

that's the Deng Xiaoping high risk High

reward fucking mindset mindset that's

what I'm fucking about not about this

fucking hesitation where we're in we're

in it for all of it or we're in it for

none of it that's my fucking view I'm in

it for all of it

for this fucking brand the infrared

brand to go mainstream I want I have a

vision I you can call me crazy I don't

give a fuck I have a vision of people

rocking the infrared hats the t-shirts

the backpacks and that's some mainstream

shit I have a fucking Vision man I want

to be the Walt Disney of Marxism

leninism I want to be the Walt Disney of

Maga in America which means Maga

communism I want to be the Walt Disney

of Maga you know what I mean

I have a dream

you know what I mean I have a dream that

infrared can do that and anyone who says

ohaz you sound so slimy and shit right

now please please I implore you use your

fucking head for a second

I challenge anyone who's got a problem

with what I'm saying use your fucking

head for a second name me one political

movement thanks so much crack two

appreciate you

thank you so much crack dealer name me

one fucking political movement in the

United States in the 21st century you

really think you're gonna build a

communist movement without understanding

how branding and symbolism works you

really think that you really think

you're going to be able to do that

listen Maga was a brand it is the most

successful counter hegemonic Mass

popular movement

in the 21st century America name

anything else even Bernie Sanders's

bullshit was a brand Bernie was a brand

Bernie himself was the brand Bernie was

a fucking brand everyone knows that

right

the Bernie 2020 shit that was the

fucking brand okay

see here's the Brilliance of trump this

is why like you you listen I cannot take

you seriously if you're not a Maga

communist I'm gonna tell you why right

now everyone's like oh so much okay you

don't have to read my sub stack you

don't have to do any of that shit here's

why I don't take you seriously if you're

not Maga ready

Obama

Obama

Obama

Obama his campaign

the first mass digitized branded

campaign

in the digital age right

2008.

what was Obama thank you so much Jay

Grimes he is far more slimy to pretend

that the very concept of the political

doesn't exist if not slimy then

hypocritical thank you Grimes appreciate

you appreciate you Obama

okay Obama Obama

change oh and then it was like colored

in the American flag

Obama

never had the courage

to turn America into a theme because oh

America for Obama is sacred all the

sacredness of Washington D.C and all

those Stone

museums in Washington DC and the the

store the White House and the capital

and all the sacred Capitol building

that's under attack in January oh my God

or the Constitution as a as a mere

um

theme attraction it's a sacred sacred

they've America

in in terms of the continuity of

Classical liberalism that's what it is

the classical liberalist view of the

state is based on this unspoken sacred

texture and Obama's campaign spoke to

that but it's a fraud because the form

of the campaign was a fucking brand

but he don't he's bluffing about the

sacredness of American exceptionalism

and all this shit right Trump was the

first motherfucker to come out here

and de-sacralize America and turn it

into a brand

Maga make America great again you know

what America he's talking about a

thematized America

notice I don't say mythologized I say

thematized I mean in America that's not

based in any white stone marble

Foundation of Classical liberalism but

in America that's based purely in this

kind of

phenomenological disclosure that is

Meaningful to people and which is

somehow Laden with intentionality an

America that speaks to people in America

that people have right an America that

belongs to the people doesn't belong to

the sacred past it belongs to the people

that my friends is a political

Aesthetics of socialism not only

socialism but 20th century communism

and even communism today in China

the Communist Party of China acts as a

transcendental brand it is literally

functions

if you are a media theorist

if you are a cultural theorist

then structurally the Communist Party of

China

functions in Chinese society as the

highest of highest Brands right

and this is the beautiful achievement of

Maga

right the beautiful achievement of Maga

is that it has emptied America into

um

a sign

and that sign is now suspended actively

in the life of the people that is so

fucking beautiful right classical

liberal America is this Bluff this

veneer of the coastal Washington Elites

of all the sacred principles of Liberty

and democracy and all this jibber jabber

right

and it's a total total fucking Bluff

and then Maga comes here and says

America is only what we the people are

here and now making of it that's all

it's not in Washington DC in some

fucking statues or it's it's not in the

fucking Capitol Building you know I

don't know if you can talk about this on

YouTube but there's a fucking reason a

specific date on a specific year oh my

God this is the worst event in American

history oh my God the sacred is there's

a reason they freaked out about it

because it symbolizes exactly how Maga

elevated the meaning inherent in the

people

meaningfulness for the people thank you

so much txyx which is good for both

political promotion and funding thank

you so much txyx there's a reason

that um

there's a very good reason why

they were so traumatized by that event

because these Maga chuds walked in a

certain place you know taking pictures

and just they were it was like a fucking

theme park it was basically a theme park

and liberals were so fucking uh

horrified by that because

that was an assertion of dominance of

the people's America over the

institution of America

and that for liberals is like Mao's

cultural revolution that's pretty much

the equivalent that's the Red Guard

storming the party bosses and party

Lords and the bureaucrats of the Chinese

State and humbling them down the the the

meaning is in this little red book that

every single fucking person can wield

right

that's the true power of the Chinese

State this little red book that I can

carry that you can carry that we can all

carry and America's Little Red Book was

that Maga hat and it's almost pretty

much the same

socio uh economic whatever it's the same

structural sociological

thing happening in America see Bill

Maher was wrong America's cultural

revolution is not cancel culture

America's real cultural revolution

catching up to China is Maga

the ones who observed the connection

between Maga and maoism were probably

some of the smartest Minds from Liberal

Coastal America and if you did observe

that right Maga is America's version of

China's cultural revolution

and it's equivalent

hey guys in any case we are here to

react to Michael Tracy's debate with

Jackson

and uh before we do that we're gonna fix

this

I'm gonna fix this camera

all right camera's fixed

all right so uh this is what we wanted

to do two days ago but which I was

unable to do

as a result

of

some some lack of Hardware that I wasn't

traveling with right

so let's go ahead and

I wanna be

forever young

do You Really Wanna Live Forever let's

watch it ready

I mean let's listen to it together

oh

starting momentarily

we're gonna do 1.5 speed

foreign

all right um so I think Michael's gonna

be joining momentarily

how's it going Samir hey how's it going

I'm gonna add Michael Tracy and then

okay perfect

all right

hello can you hear me yeah we just

invited you a co-host

okay perfect acceptance

and I guess we're good to go

can we uh can we limit the number of

speakers that are made speakers it's

like just at least initially

so we can yeah sure sure we'll do that I

won't add anyone else

some for now yeah okay

all right well uh who wants to start it

off

uh I I could start off yeah

okay so uh well here hold on hold on

hold up all right hold on

hold on why would Brian be starting off

wait so guys to be clear

uh the guy talking right now is Michael

Tracy you can't see him because it was

on a Twitter space but just to be clear

the guy talking now is Michael Tracy and

he's upset that Brian is also speaking

in the debate

okay I guess in that case I'll start it

off

and um

I'm gonna remove Brian as a speaker for

now I'm happy to bring him back later

just so we can start off

by kind of adhering to what at least the

premise for this space is

um

so I guess to summarize and uh Jackson

you know feel free to jump in whenever

you'd like

but

um

an exchange was topped off within the

past day or so between Jackson and

myself and also others who um objected

to my I guess uh assessment of this

putatively anti-war rally that is being

held on the 19th

in Washington DC I think it's called

Rage Against the war machine rally

something to that effect

um

and

here's my basic thinking on that rally

and why I wrote the Twitter thread that

I do

to be clear to you guys that rally is

tomorrow now I wanted to come

but I just had no time it was just not

possible what that rally is tomorrow

and um

yeah

so I wanted to go to it but if you're in

the area I recommend you show up it's

probably going to be a good time and

you'll be able to meet Jackson but I

wanted nothing more than to be able to

attend that rally

and I want to address more of the

controversy behind because I wasn't able

to do it that much a few days ago so but

let's continue watching the debate or

listening to it

oh no when was it Tuesday night

so uh of course I personally like and

have an affinity for and have the just

you know friendly personal relationships

with a number of people who are

participants

in that rally

um I don't purport to ever feel like I'm

entitled or would even want to you know

police ideologically

the way that activists can organize

amongst themselves in furtherance of an

anti-war cause you know people have

brought up parallels to like say 2002 or

2003 when there was a common refrain

among critics of anti-war activists that

because the actual sort of organizing

entity of many of the anti-war rallies

at that time was this group answer

a-n-s-w-e-r the acronym

um and

that group was you know behind any of

the prominent rallies

that's what it discredited or cast this

version on The Wider anti-war cause

because that group was in some technical

sense um stalinist or they were

stalinous organized within the group I

mean you can go and Google that whole

debate from a lot of jibber jabber like

um that is what I would regard as

something like an ideological policing

attempt insofar as

because the organizers of a particular

rally happen to be stalinists that

therefore tarnishes anybody else who

might be associated with the rally and

undermines the legitimacy of The Wider

cause that led to the initiation of the

rally meeting to oppose the invasion of

Iraq I agree that that would be a an

invalid critique

you know Circa 2002. I just don't think

that critique has anything to do with

what I'm saying Circa today in 2023

because what I'm pointing out is that

the organizing impetus of this

particular rally

is called into doubt by the

extension of invitations to prominent

public-facing roles by the organizers

to individuals who as I think Jackson

will himself acknowledge in what she

said to me numerous signs on

Twitter threads

are overt explicit supporters

of warfare in Ukraine they happen to be

supporters of the Russian governments

so this is just stupid okay

supporting Warfare is not

supporting Wars fair in the context of a

war being thrusted upon you

for purposes of self-defense is not the

same as supporting war in general so

it's just like a really stupid point

he's making

but I'll let him continue

Warfare

they happen to be

explicit about Advocates of the war aims

set out by the Russian state

um and they happen to be opposed to the

American slash Ukrainian

state of worrying by the way I have to

say I have to say this reminds me don't

I have a debate with President Sunday in

two days or did he bitch out of that you

know I saw something really pathetic

where president Sunday was trying to

Lobby vosh to be the moderator

which is funny because uh I hope Voss

shows up because if he doesn't I'm gonna

choose Jackson ankle as the moderator

actually I'm gonna I'm gonna message uh

Sunday right now and tell him about my

beautiful idea because clearly he won't

mind

have you succeeded

in getting washed to be the moderator of

the debate what a very brave proposal on

your part

totally an impartial moderator since

it's all the same to you if vosh doesn't

happen to be available how about Jackson

Hinkle moderates

stupid ass I just sent him that

hahaha

hope you don't back out

I sent him that

beautiful proposal

the boss is probably too scared to

fucking moderate Fair

in Ukraine

hence them declaring themselves outright

over its supporters

of the Russian government stated war

games

um so if the anti-war rally as it Brands

itself go look at its promotional

material on the website on the Twitter

feed on the

fundraising page that it has up it's

casting itself as this momentous

anti-war rally that's the biggest that

will have you know been held in the U.S

in some time

and that's the whole

branding and you know advertising nature

of this event I mean don't take my word

for it take how they actually describe

themselves

and you have you know people being

extended invitations to you know Scott

Ritter was one of them I guess he's been

disinvited at this point but he was

initially invited

um despite being on the record

as declaring himself an overt partisan

of the Russian war effort I mean which

is the coherent

this is such a stupid like actually

moment because ultimately it's an

argument if you're gonna be anti-war

you're going to ask the question who is

Fanning the Flames of War

who is escalating the conflict to the

point where it's a war and it's very

clear it's those who sought NATO

expansionism and those who today

continue to arm Ukraine beyond the

limits of what would be possible for

Ukraine in terms of its ability to wage

a war with Russia if we didn't fund

Ukraine there would be no war anymore

it's that simple

no literally it's that simple Russia

would have already achieved the

Strategic objectives and the war would

be over

so the burden is on people if you don't

support Russia

it begs the question what does that mean

in reality to support or not support

Russia when

the fact of the conflict the dispute is

there Russia has been the one that tried

to pursue every every possible path to

resolving that conflict outside of a war

but the Western Powers decided war was

what they wanted which is what they

always want by the way

leaving Russia no choice

but to participate in a

a war that they would have preferred not

happen so being anti-war is not about

whether you

you know if someone forces you to be in

a war I mean who's forcing the U.S to

fucking fund Ukraine

right

think about it who's for it's a it's an

it's a detached agenda for war

it's not based on some visceral

necessity the US doesn't need to now you

could maybe say oh Ukraine needs to wage

that war then Ukraine can fucking do it

why do we need to prolong the war by

funding them how is that a situation

thrusted upon us or we can't let Russia

win my question is why why can't we let

Russia win

based on what necessity

if we are not willing to allow Russia to

win then we sue for war war is what we

want unless we accept that Russia can

win in which case there's no war

it's that simple guys it's not really

more complicated than that but I'm

curious to see how the debate goes

I'm not saying it's

argumentatively untenable to espouse

that position like you can make a

coherent case

that you think the pro-war position on

Russia's behalf is Justified because

there's a long lineage of the just War

Theory throughout the ages

so if you want to say that the Russian

war effort is a just War go ahead and

make that argument that's uh

intelligible argument potentially and

can be refuted or agreed with

but then to mischaracterize and conflate

that argument as to somehow an anti-war

argument when what you're doing is

explicitly making a crow War argument I

mean you're making an argument in favor

of

a warring parties

belligerent activity and I say

belligerent just in this kind of

technical international relations sense

and that both Russia

in Ukraine are belligerence in this war

cobelligerence include the United States

obviously uh

NATO members

he's like oh yeah I mean like obviously

like nato in the US I mean but yeah I

mean it's like no that's the key element

because without nato in the U.S there

would be no war Russia would have

achieved this strategic objectives now

here's the fucking thing

this is what makes this argument even

less sustainable it's the fact that

Russia sorry NATO and the U.S know

Ukraine cannot win they just want

literally they want the war

they want the war for the war Zone's

sake it's not even to defend Ukraine

because Ukraine doesn't stand a fucking

chance so it's just that they want more

Bloodshed and War

they want the war to continue for as

long as the war continues

for whatever reason the Atlantic Elites

have decided that this benefits them

creates Belarus occupy Etc Iran so uh

you can make that argument but that I

what I object to here

is

really both there are logical grounds

and on grounds of really kind of public

deception

in casting these a validly pro-war

arguments as anti-war arguments and then

kind of

insinuating that into what is being

presented as an anti-war event when some

of the Marquee speakers or the people

the people who have been elevated by the

organizers themselves these are just

random people who are you know popping

appearing at the rally or management

there was the public or you know the

kind of regular sort of Cadre of sort of

assorted eccentrics and weirdos who

would come showed up to any public

protest

these are the these are the invited

speakers who are being portrayed as

representative of the cause writ large

and Jackson's not the only one neither

is Ritter

okay I have to explain this to Tracy

Scott Ritter is an American Scott Ritter

wants his own government to stop funding

Ukraine

thereby ending the war

it's not that complicated doesn't matter

what scottrider's views on Russia are

actually it matters

as far as what position he assumes for

the country that is of relevance

to his agency

to his existence

which is America

Scott Ritter is an American he's not

Russian

I think that detail is kind of lost on

Tracy doesn't matter if Ritter says well

if I was a Russian I wouldn't mind okay

you can try to accuse him of hypocrisy

but you can't denigrate the anti-war

status of his presence at the event

I think that's a really simple thing

I don't think that's that complicated

but for some reason it has to be more

complicated than it is I'm not sure why

go down the line if you like

um so that my case is a uh

the reason why the current coffee War

movement going on whether around is bad

but that they definitely would have

supported the last one if they round

back then

yeah I know it speaks to something all

the people who decided to raise their

voice to bitch and moan about this

anti-war rally what a bunch of fucking

losers there's literally people online

who are spending all their fucking time

bitching and moaning about this anti-war

rally then go do your own fucking rally

what do you want you're just a fucking

loser

holy shit imagine being such a Fed

ankle-biting bitch anytime someone tries

to do anything you have to sit here and

bitch about it

and be like what about what you did with

the Paul moron thing well in the case of

Paul moron he was trying to flex the

Connolly house which by the way doesn't

exist anymore and neither does the

initiative

that whole thing is gone

but he tried to use that as an example

of how his activity is more effective

and important than what infrared is

doing

so we rightfully mocked it right

but there are people who are just coming

out of the woodwork to slander and

malign probably the largest

anti-war rally in regards to the the

Ukraine situation ever in America and

they're coming out to malign it for what

why

because the speaker's there

aren't controlled

by

Soros by proxy of this PSL

PSL by the way is a Soros Affiliated

organization it's a trotsky-eyed

organization as well they claim to be

Marxist leninist but that's a lie they

are trotskius to the Bone and to the

core of their being and An Origin their

trotsky's office 3 on the part of the

debate organizers and participants and

I'm also not saying that anybody who

participates is therefore sort of

irrevocably tarnished by their

participation

uh I still though think that it's worth

being intellectually honest and

consistent in evaluating what this event

is actually about and what the

participants actually are on the record

as in favor of

okay

um so I'll just start off by saying that

yeah I think supporting Russia right now

supporting Putin is

clearly anti-war and um

that's why I don't think it's any sort

of uh I don't think there's any

discrepancy between

the stated goals of the event and

speakers like myself but to make it

clear for everyone who doesn't know

there are 10 stated demands from The

Rage Against the war machine event which

are not one more penny for war in

Ukraine negotiate peace stop War

inflation disband NATO Global nuclear

de-escalation

slash the Pentagon budget also CIA

abolish war and Empire restore civil

liberties free Julian Assange so that

that alone just shows that I mean those

are the aims of the event the aims of

the event don't say anything and I know

what's the PSL Soros connection it's not

a direct one but it stems from the psl's

uh affiliation and collaboration with

open Society

Affiliated

um networks and organizations

and specifically keynote people within

the PSL like Vijay prashad have open

Society Foundation backgrounds through

an organization

for whom I forget the name but it as

backing from the open Society Foundation

oh Michael's not claiming this to be the

case but the the you know the goal of

the event is not to say everyone has to

go support Putin or something like that

but what Michael is clearly laid out is

that he thinks that there is a dilemma

that has risen as a result of some

people being overtly Pro uh Russia at an

anti-war event now

I don't really understand Michael's

argument not pro-russia Russia Pro

Russia's war effort okay shut up because

I let you speak that entire time I

didn't interrupt you okay you can you

can come all right I just want to

clarify things based on what I say after

I'm done okay okay go ahead I apologize

so

um

so I I don't understand okay supporting

well we all know what supporting Russia

means right now and what I mean by that

it's what Michael just said supporting

Russia's military operation in Ukraine

and the reason why I don't understand

his argument is because

there I mean there's a difference

between anti-war and being a pacifist

and a pacifist is like like Gandhi was a

pacifist Gandhi told you know Jews that

they should

um oppose war against the Nazis you know

when they were being killed by the Nazis

Gandhi told the the Chinese when they

were being invaded by Japan that they

should choose pacifism when we all know

that you know supporting defensive

military operations in times like these

are truly the only answer that are left

for entities like the Jewish people or

the polls or the Soviets that were being

slaughtered or like the

um Chinese or in this case like the

Russians and the people in the tombas I

mean I don't understand how anyone could

look at I know Michael was saying like

what maybe you just had you look at the

contextual uh the the context of

diplomacy over the past several years

the past decade or so and you've come to

the conclusion that you support Russia

but that's not that's not anti-war it is

anti-war because if you look at what

happened first Russia tried to integrate

in the west at the start of Putin's

presidency then we saw that there was

many attempts through this time up until

about 2013 2014. 2014 we saw I mean 2004

there was a coup in Ukraine in 2014

there was another coup in Ukraine the

maidan coup even during the maidan coup

Rasha was still trying to encourage

Yanukovych to negotiate with the Nazi

parties like oliitanya book in Ukraine

then after that when the Nazi party took

over and we had all those actors in

Ukraine Russia still tried to negotiate

with them up until you know 2019 around

when zelinski got elected through the

Minsk Accords and then through the Minx

two Accords which zielinski Angela

Merkel other German officials in John

Bolton all all over the span of the past

two months have come out and admitted

publicly that they were not trying to

use the minks Accords for actual peace

purposes but instead to prepare Ukraine

for their War against Russia Russia

didn't want war Russia's tried to you

know bring peace at every single

um you know stage of this process and

then throughout all this time 2014

onward we saw that 15 000 civilians were

slaughtered by Ukrainian authorities in

the dombas Russia I think should have

taken these defensive actions to protect

the people that were being slaughtered

in the dombast with heavy artillery

supplied by NATO long ago I think they

should have done this long ago I don't

think they should have waited till uh

you know a year ago almost today

to do this in many people within the Dom

bass in Russia reflect the sentiment uh

the Communist Party the Russian

Federation also reflects the sentiment

they've been advocating this for many

years and uh so at the at you have to

you have to draw the conclusion that

Russia didn't have any other options

Russia's options were either continue to

get cucked by the West allow NATO to

install more heavy artillery along the

Don bass potentially do a full-scale

Invasion into the donbass with Ukrainian

military personnel and the Russians

would have had to sit back and watch

thousands more you uh Ukrainian Russian

ethnic Russians be slaughtered in the

dombast by these you know Ukrainian

Nazis and they also would have you know

been risking uh escalation to nuclear

war of the ukrainians and NATO forces

right on their border potentially doing

something within Russia itself so

Russia's actions are purely defensive

and saying that you are taking a stand

of support this is the last thing I'll

say saying that you're taking a stand of

support for defensive uh responses to a

war that was not started by Russia this

war was started by the West is not the

same thing as saying that you're pro-war

and in fact

Michael you responded to Nathan J

Robinson when Nathan J Robinson quote

retweeted me and said that you know you

can't claim that your anti-war Jackson

because every partisan and every war

always thinks that they're defeating

absolute evil in the same way that the

United there was United States officials

who believed that they were defeating

absolute evil when they were Waging War

crimes against the people of Afghanistan

Iraq and Vietnam and you agreed with him

you said well put so my question to you

is how on Earth could you ever ever even

come close to comparing uh the

sentiments of those who committed war

crimes gruesome war crimes and what are

uh clearly not just military Ambitions

uh in Iraq Afghanistan and Vietnam to

what Putin is doing in a defensive

operation

in Ukraine

okay uh first just technically

um

for some reason when I'm on Twitter

spaces my voice apparently sounds like I

have a massive lisp

um so uh is this any better because I

sort of changed my setup I think it

happens to everyone

it happens okay too

do I sound any better at this uh like

this sounds fun I guess it doesn't

matter

okay

um

all right so

Jackson all the

rationales that you just laid out there

for why it is that you support Russia's

current war effort

again those are potentially coherent

rationales that one can

either agree or disagree with but the

rationale that you're setting forth is

for why you're in support of the war

effort meaning why you are pro the

current Russian war effort hence making

a pro war argument I mean at a certain

point it really is just about basic

conceptual Clarity here now let me just

give you a parallel that I think

highlights this

since the beginning of the war at least

you know since February of last year

I've almost entirely been in you know

antagonistic dialogue with people who

are pro-ukraine war effort right so

people who are in favor of whether it's

the provision of Weaponry by the us or

the operational coordination that the

U.S is engaging in Ukraine or the you

know endless escalatory measures that

the U.S principally has

effectuated in Ukraine on you know in

opposition to Russia

and the argument that I'll always get

when I characterize those measures is

pro-war is well no this isn't a pro-war

policy this we're not advocating for

anything that's pro-war

this is a defensive War

on behalf of Ukraine to defend its

territorial integrity and sovereignty

against an invader country Russia

and I made the same argument with them

that I'm making here with you now which

is that you can argue that the U.S slash

Ukraine war effort is a just War

that can be agreed with or disagreed

with

but you can't say it's an anti-war

argument because you're making an

affirmative proactive

defense of and justification for

Warfare activity I mean

I I maybe this is kind of a trivial

point or maybe it's like a overly

obvious point but I think clarifying

just the basic terminology is actually

necessary here because if you dilute the

terminology

and allow for all these conflations and

uh

um kind of over

extrapolations to settle in as

replacements for what is just otherwise

Common Sense terminology in that if you

if you're making an argument in favor of

a war you're a pro-war

then I think we're also losing something

that's actually fundamental on a

conceptual level or we're allowing that

to be obfuscated so you know your whole

point about how Russia would be just is

Justified to defend the Don bass or that

the Russia is legitimately

yeah in

fear of its security needs by way of the

U.S NATO encroachments on its border or

um whatever else you might want to say

in favor of the Russian war effort in

saying it you're guys I'm going to

briefly interject just right now

breaking news I just told president

Sunday I will allow wash to moderate

because apparently Vos might be down for

at the 23rd

something I will allow him to moderate

if vosh agrees to debate me at a later

time

otherwise

yeah that is not a uh acceptable

that's not an acceptable moderator

I don't know why that would be an

acceptable moderate that's fucking

Insanity right but if he I will take I

will allow the biased moderator if that

moderator agrees to debate me at a later

time so that's my uh condition that's my

terms and conditions for allowing that

moderator

lending Credence to and giving the

justification for a pro-war effort I'm

sorry an invasion and I noticed I don't

know why you necessarily do this but you

seem to be using the sort of euphemism

about a special military operation I

guess it's not that pertinent but for

again conceptual Clarity I'm just going

to refer to it as a war or Invasion

because it is I mean Russia did indeed

the country

um

you're you're looking at a war that's

underway instead

whoever vosh's handlers are clearly told

him don't fucking debate that Haas guy

he knows and he's he knows his shit

and he'll take you places you're not

comfortable with

and he'll fuck up your career so don't

debate that fucking guy he's he's only

debating me once because he didn't know

who I was and it was a big mistake

uh I don't think he'd ever debate me

but uh yeah that's a dream debate it is

that is a dream debate

anyway let's continue

saying that support for that war is

anti-war

no it's just not the case it's just

flatly oxymoronically contradictory

okay that is a just War if you'd like

but it's not an anti-war argument it's a

pro-war argument it just is

that okay but what the reason why I

referred to it as such is because this

is not Russia's war in the same way that

yes it is in the same way that World War

II was not Stalin's War uh or or you

know the Jewish people's War it was

Hitler's War uh you say well okay Russia

invaded Ukraine uh they went into

Ukraine yes long after the West invaded

Ukraine to pose their Sovereign

government uh made made Ukraine a

non-sovereign state in 2014 onward

filled it with Nazis in government and

then took those Nazis to test to the the

aim of slaughtering people in the

dombast so the West invaded Ukraine long

before Russia invaded Ukraine and um I I

see Samara you got your hand up you want

to ask a question but uh the reason why

we say I I and many others say that and

why so many people were frustrated with

your commentary on the matter is because

you can't look at I you you can't look

at this in a vacuum and just look at

this from you know February 24th onward

you do have to look at the contacts here

in the context clearly shows us that

Russia was responding

being anti-war doesn't mean under no

conditions

would you be a part of a war

being anti-war

means you are against

the underlying causes of the war itself

you are against the circumstances

of the war not that you are unwilling to

participate in a war it's that simple

responding to something that was that's

what Jax was trying to say here but

Michael Tracy just doesn't get it

happening something that a they tried

every attempt at making uh peaceful uh

proposals to prevent from happening and

then on top of that the special military

operation in it of itself which is a

response to Nato invading Ukraine

um

so to put this in clearer terms

if you're you can be against

um

the poisoning of the food supply with

chemicals I don't know maybe you're

against GMOs

and you could still eat GMO based foods

you are just against the fact that it's

in the supply you want to remove it from

the supply but you still need to eat

food at your convenience

it's just that you want that chemical

removed from the food supply or whatever

right so that's what I mean it

it's so stupid right

it's like I want air that is not

polluted

and yet you breathe how can you breathe

and still be against polluted air

because I'm not against breathing I'm

against pollution in the air

is simply an effort to prevent an actual

war from breaking out because this is

not really truly deeply a World War yet

it's a Sith Creek it's the war before

the war sure there's a lot of people

dying and that's terrible uh but Russia

what they're trying to do right now is

prevent Ukraine from becoming you know

the the match that sets off World War

III

um that's what they're I know it's like

when you look at this in the vacuum and

when you look at this in this tiny

little span of life that we have here on

this Earth it looks bad like Rush is the

aggressor but they're not they're what

if you support Russia at this point in

time you are anti-war because you are

trying to stop the madness from

spiraling into what the West wants it to

be okay

I just have a really I just have a

really quick Point um earlier you said

that Jackson did not Define define those

terms that he was making arguments why

it was like a just War but uh Jackson

clearly made a distinction between being

anti Warren being a pacifist but you

seem to have ignored that do you

recognize the difference between those

two things because it seems that you

treat them as like synonymous but

they're not as Jackson yeah no that's a

good point I I meant to address that

no I don't see them as synonymous I'm

not making an argument for pacifism

I think you can be anti I think I think

you can be an anti-war in particular you

can be anti-war in particular instances

and not be an overarching

philosophical pacifists so for instance

you can be anti-war in the case of this

conflict in Ukraine insofar as you can

oppose the Warfare from whatever

belligerent parties are waging it in

Ukraine

but you can support some other War

five years from now

hence you wouldn't be a pacifist you

would be anti-war in particular

circumstances so I'm not

making an argument for pacifism per se

I'm not even saying I'm personally a

pacifist I'm more arguing for

definitional and conceptual Clarity I

mean

but your definition of anti-war is the

definition of pacifism that's what we're

trying no it's not no it's not I mean my

definition

as per this conflict which is what the

whole rallies about

is that if you're Pro the Warfare of a

particular warring party whether it's

Ukraine or Russia or the us or NATO

then you are not in any meaningful sense

anti-war what is that what does it mean

what what is that okay so if we if you

don't think that you can be anti-war and

support Russia's special military

operation what do you think the aims of

the special military operation are

I mean just think about what you're

saying I hope people who are listening

can try to think about this

if you're not in favor of Russia

military operation you're not answering

Jackson is jibber jabber peeled hi guys

by the way Mar was credit Mario Seth

Mario Seth

remember the name that is the origin of

the most powerful rhetorical device in

the history of infrared jibber jabber

okay it's called being jibber jabber

Pill by the way guys

I have a new thing I'm doing on Twitter

I recommend you guys join the lead now

you can check out my replies on Twitter

but um every time I see a leftoid tweet

by like a western leftist I don't care

if they're miles I don't care if they

call themselves ml I just reply with

trotskyites Jibber Jabber

and then I don't respond any further

they can quote tweet it they can reply

to it I'll just say my piece Trotsky Ike

jibber jabber and we need to start

getting jibber jabber ratios going

because sometimes these tweets you know

they're critiquing dengism just reply

with Trotsky jibber jabber and they will

be silenced it's a new weapon uh I'm

deploying it I'm testing it but that's a

new kind of thing we're doing we're just

calling we're just calling things

Trotsky like jibber jabber because

that's exactly what they fucking are we

need to raise awareness of the problem

of trotskyism and Trotsky Jigger jabber

but let me continue right so you're

saying you don't think you can be a

favor of Russia's special military the

anti-war you're saying in favor of

anything operation an invasion Michael

how is being against that it's not it's

not an invasion it's a defense of the

people in the Don bass that are being

slaughtered so answer the question well

what do you think what do you think the

goals of the people and and what do you

think the goals of the special military

operation are

what do I think I mean it doesn't matter

what I think it's what the well it is

state that they are I mean I've read the

Putin speech on February 24th of last

year he lays out the goals I have no

real reason to think that they've

changed so what are the goals and if you

agree with Putin's state of rationale

for why he launched the you know

preemptive War well that's fine in terms

of just conceptual cohesion wait did you

just anti-war I mean do you think Jordan

was making an anti-war speech when he

announced the invasion

I think the best thing to say is the war

has been going on since my Dawn

so

what caused the War was the coup

so to be anti-war is to want the war to

end if you want the war to end the

sovereignty and self-determination of

the people of the Dawn Bass

and Nova rossia as a whole has to be

respected because the situation in

Ukraine changes when there's an

unconstitutional coup that

disenfranchises

the russian-speaking part of the

population

simple right on February 24th I mean

it's just absurd it's just like this

bizarre inversion of basic common

sensical logic and okay

let me give you an Illuminating the

question Michael would you ever answer

the question

so the question before we get into

Putin's bizareness the question was

bizarre

you said his speech was a bizarre

inversion of life it's bizarre to say

that his speech was an anti-war speech

when he was announcing Michael

commencement of a war Michael Michael

shut the fuck up for a second answer the

question what do you think the goals of

these special military operation are

well it doesn't matter what I think they

are I defer to what Putin said in the

speech what are they if you want me to

shut the fuck up I'll shut the fuck up

no no no no it doesn't matter what my

rendering is asking your question the

people okay

what are they

what are the goals

what what difference does it make how I

put into words what the goals of the

operation are look at the text of the

speech the the different the the reason

why this is important Michael is for the

same reason why I was so outraged when

you said that Nathan J Robinson put it

well when he said that uh you know

there's no differences between the the

mentality of those

what did he say and what did you agree

with I'll I'll put I'll pull it up right

now hold on just so I have the exact

okay and and you know we're not gonna

leave the we're not going to leave this

question I have for you we're going to

come back to it but you know we're sure

he says here's what Nathan J Robinson

said in which I said that he put well

once quoting here quote one thing I wish

everyone understood since the world

might be such better off if they did

every side and every war thinks they're

battling absolute evil usually they're

just slaughtering normal people who wish

they could get back to their lives this

is constant across history I do think

that's well put I think that could be

also said for that that wasn't all right

now though that was that was mythology

which thinks that Russia is the

embodiment Michael all evil and Putin is

Hitler and so on and Michael why did you

leave out part of his tweet

that's the that's the entirety of the

tweet I just read it

and then the second part of the Tweet

says W the whole tweet no dude there's a

thread there's two yeah

you responded Michael you responded to

it and said well put it said the second

part of the Tweet says Uh George W bush

thought he was fighting the forces of

darkness and evil as he was slaughtering

Iraqis and Afghans LGB and LBJ and Nixon

thought they were defeating communism as

they bomb peasants Putin thinks he's

defending the Nazis every person who

does evil is the good guy in their own

story so you the the reason why knowing

what Putin's objectives are is important

is because Putin's objectives of the

special military operation as I'm sure

you will admit momentarily when you tell

me what they are are not the same as

slaughtering innocent Iraqis Afghans or

Vietnamese with bombs or Napalm gas

so so tell me again what are the stated

goals of these special military

operation because I mean I don't know

why you're trying to give me a pop quiz

I mean I'm telling you read the speech

if you want to know what this what the

stated aims are what does it matter how

I personally characterize them it's just

the diversion because this is what the

whole debate is about and you can do you

even know what they are

but yeah I of course I do I've read the

speech I've so what are they I know what

Russian officials say the stated aims

are so what are they I mean so so you're

saying so so because because you

absolutely agree I guess with the stated

aims of the Russian war

efforts you even know what they are any

military action that Russia undertakes

especially pursuant to those objectives

right so if it bombs no energy

that's anti-war to support that

uh potentially yeah so what are those

potentially wait wait wait okay so

anti-war movements of the past for

example in in World War II uh they

viewed you know the Allies war effort to

stop the Nazis and the Japanese from

Waging War on other people like they

build that as anti-war now that is the

distinction between you know being

anti-war and being a pacifist so in this

hold on let me finish in the same way

Russia trying to stop Ukraine's war in

the donbass is anti-war that's the

argument people are making that's a

that's an incoherent nonsensical

arguments in World War II I mean I just

did I mean people can go look at my

subject if they're interested from last

fall no one reads your sub stack

probably more subscribers than you've

ever had so I guess some people read it

oh Jesus you definitely don't but

anyways

nobody reads or listens to anything I do

why did you why were you so desperate to

want to debate me on Twitter spaces it

seems odd

um you know also sending me creepy

creepy creepy DMS about like how I'm

lonely on Valentine's Day or something

yeah that's really cool well everyone

knows everyone knows you were drunk

tweeting when you did that and that's

why you think about something no I was

inebriated you're drunk on some kind of

ideological uh you know I don't know

what it is yes I'm drunk on them

something something uh potent so maybe I

can get a sip of that it might actually

be uh a fun time

um no in World War II I mean well

actually lots of people read this

particular article because there was a

giant flurry of discussion around it so

yeah

I remember that stuff maybe you were too

busy kind of uh you know kissing wait so

Michael you're you're giving your time

jumping around the conversation but my

questions

just asked me

in World War II I mean prior to December

of 1941 when the U.S formally entered

the war post Pearl Harbor

the anti-war movement in the United

States has embodied mainly by the

America first

Coalition but also other groups which

was across ideological movement

they were

principally against U.S involvement in

the war that was what they were anti

that's what they you know the obviously

there was disagreement

among certain individuals as to it whose

war effort you know whether they were in

favor of certain other aspects of the

Warfare that was underway then in Europe

but they were not saying it's we want to

enter the war for anti-war purposes they

were for keeping the United States out

of the war that was what the whole point

of the anti-war movement was in 1941

okay so no it's just historically

inaccurate to say that the anti-war

movement was all about trying to get the

United States into the war in World War

II no talking about the global anti-war

movement at the time not specific to the

United States and uh in the same way

Jackson people who are speaking at the

rage against the war machine rally they

don't want any U.S involvement in this

war

right so they're not they don't they

don't necessarily favor a cessation of

the hostilities they just and and we

forget the United States

that's exactly where you're wrong

because

every single person who supports Russia

does want this to end no one wants more

Russians to continue going out and

getting slaughtered more innocent

ukrainians that probably are either

neutral or may even support Russia's

AIMS in this uh go out and get

slaughtered for you know they're sending

out 16 year old kids at this point it's

insane they're sending out disabled

people uh old like it's insane what

they're doing so no one supports that

and I think that's where we really truly

do uh have a fundamental

misunderstanding

um between each other because I don't

support that you say that I support

Russia and and they're like continued uh

War efforts the efforts of Russia well

you do right the efforts of Russia are

to stop the war if the efforts of Russia

if the efforts of Russia I don't know

why you're laughing if the efforts of

Russia were not to stop the war why

would Putin have put forward multiple

peace proposals that were nuked by the

West in particular news by Boris Johnson

um and nuked by Biden officials uh we've

seen this from Israeli Prime Minister

Natalie former Israeli Prime Minister

Natalie Bennett admitted this that uh

Russia was close to finalizing a peace

Proposal with ukrainians and then Biden

officials stepped in and nuked the deal

we saw this also with turkey in the

Istanbul negotiations Putin was close to

achieving a deal there and Boris Johnson

came in and stopped the deal from taking

place those are the only two that we

know about for sure publicly that were

close to taking place and then stopped

so Russia wants this to end the only

reason why they're doing what they're

doing still today is because the West

has nuked every opportunity of peace

even from the start of this war so it's

really crazy that you know you would

claim that we support More Death more

destruction here when that's that

couldn't be further from the truth

well I'm laughing because it's uncanny

how perfectly this Echoes the same sort

of fallacious logic that the pro-ukraine

U.S side constantly makes in just

justifying its own Warfare they'll say

of course we want the word and we're not

sending Abrams Tanks or heavy artillery

or Bradley Fighting Vehicles because we

want to perpetuate the Warfare this is

all about ending the Warfare because we

want to

stop the death and destruction that's

why they're not negotiating escalating

the Warfare I mean it's the same exact

argument it's not it's not because it's

so early it's not the same because

they're not I mean you're saying you're

saying no no warring party said that it

wants to wage Wars

bring in your resume

no it's not because how could you say

that this is the same when we all know

how this is hey we all know logic is the

same no we all know how this is going to

end point a Russia is going to have a

military Victory or there's going to be

mutually assured destruction or end

point B also the ukrainians are not

attempting to negotiate zelinski's come

out and he said I will only negotiate if

Putin steps down I will only negotiate

if every Russian troop leads to the

hundred thousand plus square kilometers

that they've already liberated I will

only negotiate thirdly if the Russians

give back Crimea which voted to join the

Russian Federation back in 2014. so how

could you say that this is the same when

the ukrainians are not trying to

actually negotiate and the only times

that they did on two occasions the West

came in and stopped them from finalizing

the deal it's not the same at all first

off 99 of the time that I ever covered

this topic it's highlighting those

things that you mentioned I mean I read

that that particular presidential decree

that zielinski authored and published in

September where he said that no

negotiations were possible with the

Russian Federation so long as Putin

remains in office which is essentially

stating that a precondition of any

negotiations is regime change in Russia

hence negating the viability of any

negotiations whatsoever and with the U.S

saying that

zielinski and the Ukrainian government

are somehow dictating the Strategic

policy of the war effort that you know

as a de facto endorsement of regime

chains by the U.S I'm aware of what

diplomatic history I know about what not

tally Bennett said I transcribed it

myself I mean you're not telling me

anything new I know I'm simply trying to

remain consistently trying to put it

inside

whatever might be true about the Ukraine

war effort and the U.S war for effort I

mean I think that the logic that the U.S

employs in justifying its own war effort

as somehow anti-war which they do

constantly that's what Ukraine partisans

do and American interventionists do all

the time they're saying the Abrams tanks

are actually anti-war Vehicles that's

what they say and yeah not saying that

everything about the you that the

Russian war effort is quote the same but

there is an eerily uncanny uh

reminiscence of the fallacious logic

employed where you're saying that oh

actually you know we're bombing the

election electrical infrastructure in

leviv and in Kiev and kharkiv and so

forth because we're due because it's for

anti-war purposes so the bombs you know

the bombs being dropped on those

electrical grids they have like a dove

painted on them or something I mean it's

just total absurdity now again I would

be fine and I wish I almost you that you

would do this because then we could have

a more reason to debate I wish you would

just make an argument that it's a just

War so that the these Warfare methods

employed by Russia are just viable in

your town it's not it's not a just War

it's not a just War okay well that's

interesting Russian war effort is not

just no the West war in Ukraine is not a

just War right

Ukraine that's that's another issue we

could talk about that as well Russia's

not Russia is not waging a war it's a

defense so it's not dropping bars on

stuff

I think it's a special military

operation to protect

um Michael treasury what what do you

mean he can't understand

that there's a difference between being

thrusted into a war and

being the cause of the war itself it's a

really simple distinction by the way

guys what do you guys think about this

background because I know the kitchen

isn't that

I'm gonna get a better one I'm gonna

like come up with one

you know because I am the Walt Disney of

Marxism leninism and we're gonna Disney

fly this whole fucking thing when I say

Disney if I mean thematic

quality and consistency but I need a

better camera to fucking do that

I think I'm gonna wait like a month to

get the camera probably

we'll see I'll I need to I do need a

better camera

but I'll I don't know we'll see

because I'm gonna do the Merch this

month

that's the thing this month I'm doing

merch

but uh if you guys have recommendations

for like a portable camera

or I could probably like get one and

then return it right

and then leave

what do you guys think because I'm just

using my phone right now and like as you

can see the

uh it's not very good quality in terms

of like frame rate

and I need to fiddle around with it

myself

by myself sometime to kind of get that

frame rate

you know what I'm gonna just do that now

fuck it

fuck it I'll just do that now

[Music]

oh boy

oh boy oh boy

[Music]

hey guys this is horrific this is

horrific

I mean the qualities wow right but it's

just not sustainable let me see what I

can do about this background

background not

hey I'm back so this is like impeccable

like brilliant quality it's just I guess

my computer is not good enough

I have a really good laptop

um his quality is fucking crazy this is

like my camera at home

this is crazy

I think the Elgato it's not gonna be as

good as this though this is like next

level right

well there's probably something we can

do

uh

uh as soon as you like fuck with the

background the whole thing fucks up

uh we could do all right we're just

gonna do

we're just gonna do this I'm gonna go

fuck let's

let's continue

just the word play trick okay no it's

not it's not Michael let me ask you a

question let me ask you a question

it is was

um was it Stalin's war in World War II

when they were protecting Jews polls and

Soviets that were being slaughtered I

don't know what you mean by Stalin's War

Stalin had a war effort well you're

saying that the war effort

what you're saying that this is Putin's

War I didn't say that I said Russia is

undertaking a war effort in Ukraine is

it not and who dropped the bombs this

within the past 12 hours on electrical

infrastructure in Lev

of course Russia did and I I think it's

okay more method right that's activity

that Russia undertook pursuant to it's a

military it's a military operation

what's the freaking difference it's a

euphemism it's a euphemism that is in

keeping with how Russian State officials

characterize their war effort I'm not

sure why you're so insistent uh

maintaining that euphemism the reason

why I'm insistent on maintaining that

euphemism as you put it so you agree

with the euphemism no I'm saying that as

you put it is a euphemism if you let me

finish my fucking sentence then I'll

I'll finish my point

the reason why uh well I'm sure many

more people are riveted by what I have

to say than what you have to say because

more people actually care about what I

have to say but the reason why people do

a straw poll the reason why I say that

is because in times of War we all have

to understand that there are defensive

responses that take a military uh tone

to them and then there's there's

outright you know war crimes aggression

uh you know Invasion hostility that we

see from other sides so the character of

the states of Nazi Germany and the

character of their military was Far

different than the character of the if

you're going to take a piss or fill up

water like to turn the music

the the character of the Nazi military

in World War II was Far different than

the character of the Soviet Red Army in

World War II just in the same way that

the defensive actions of Russia to stop

World War III and further escalation

against the 15 000 Slaughter than the

donbass and the attempted escalation to

World War III uh by NATO starting with

Ukraine are different than the actions

of NATO uh provoking Russia they're

different you can't say that it's you

know Russia's War efforts when this is a

response to the West's starting a war on

Russia's front doorstep

well okay I mean it's sort of just

fatuous to say all these different War

efforts throughout history are not quote

the same of course the Soviet effort war

effort and the Nazi war effort in World

War II were not the same in every

respect I'm not saying that I don't know

anyone who says that is more efforts

cannot be evaluated so I mean one of the

ironies there actually is that Germany

made defensive arguments on its own

behalf in World War II justifying its

Warfare I mean it was saying that

uh against the Soviets the arguments are

extremely

just shit you can't really defend them

or sustain them in any good faith they

could claim the Bolsheviks were planning

on conquering all of Europe if it wasn't

for us

but where's the evidence it's not very

convincing

I mean it's non-existent

so no it's not the same whereas you have

a clear case of NATO expansionism you

have no such thing in the case of the

Soviet Union what aspirations do the

Soviets have

before the non-aggression pact with the

Germans to expand even into Poland

none that are clear

and and the invasion of Finland was

preempted

by fears

over the fact that it would be used as a

springboard for the Nazis so

it's really stupid to make that argument

and it's just almost impossible actually

as opposed to Russia

you

so I mean almost always

warring parties make what they call

defensive arguments in favor of their

Warfare the U.S has done it Germany's

done it the Soviet Union's done it

Russia's doing it now Ukraine's doing it

now so those defensive arguments are

almost Irrelevant in just coming to the

basic ascertainment that they're still

war efforts all the same so when you're

saying it's not a Russia's war effort I

don't know what that means Russia is

waging a war effort right now you can

call it a special military operation and

do these like euphemistic wordplay Jiu

Jitsu tricks I guess although they're

not very persuasive but when you're

saying by Michael Russia has a Warfare

that can be evaluated on its own terms

you could think it's Justified or not

you could think there is good arguments

in favor

I think it's pretty simple the idea that

Jackson's where Jackson's coming from is

the way I see it is that

there was a war in the dawn Bass

and Russia launched a special military

operation to put an end to the war

meanwhile NATO and the United States

want to prolong the war

by funding Ukraine

with Advanced military equipment that

will stall the inevitable Russian

Victory which will indeed put an end to

the war I I think it's pretty simple

right

of it or not but to say that it's not

Russians you know how you can tell

Russia is not the warmongering power

because you have to ask the question

are the terms of Peace conducive to more

war

um and they're not

the people in the dawn bass will not

take up arms and fight Russia

whereas if the Nazis achieved their

terms of peace that would be an endless

war for because Humanity will not

surrender to Nazism

and inferior peoples will not surrender

to a Master race that's an impossibility

so that would be a prolonged state of

War

against the world

but in the case of Russia the terms of

peace

and be honored

as long as external forces don't meddle

and intervene in them

it's not as if Russia wants to conquer

Western Ukraine and subjugate it they'd

I doubt they have

any Illusions as far as their ability to

do that

um but I could be wrong that they want

to be an occupation force in Western

Ukraine

Russia is very cognizant of the fact you

can't occupy a people

who are anti-feedical to you and don't

want anything to do with you

and you could say oh chechnya well

chechnya was that an expression of the

will of the Chechen people or what were

these extremist elements that's open to

interpretation I think

War I mean that seems like it's almost

like a broader political statement

that's irrelevant point that they're

Waging War right now no it's extremely

relevant and the reason why your take is

extremely brain dead on this is because

when you agree with Nathan J Robinson

that oh you know just every leader every

government feels like they're battling

absolute war and it's all the same

whether it's the U.S and Afghanistan or

Iraq or the U.S dropping Napalm on

civilians of Vietnam or Putin you know

saying that he's taking on Nazis in

Ukraine you're saying that you know it's

like there's no there's no differences

to be made here it's all war but the

reason why so the yes that's exactly

what you said I'm not saying everything

is all the same you keep ascribing this

belief to me that I think everything is

the same I just never have said that

Michael shut your mouth let me finish so

the reason why

so many were frustrated by what you said

is because supporting Russia at this

point in time is objectively anti-war

because their names their whole aim is

to bring an into this they don't want

this to continue the West wants this to

turn into a Forever War maybe there's

some within Russia that do want this to

be a forever War I don't know you know

progosian of the uh Wagner group maybe

he's making so much money on this he

wants to continue for a while but I can

definitively tell you that those within

the Russian government

that responded to the NATO aggression

with the special military operation

based on their official statements do

not want this to continue forever and

based upon their actions since February

24th of last year in the various

attempts at peace that were uh nuked by

the West they don't want this to

continue they want this to come to an

end and they're trying to do anything

and everything within their power to end

this war that was started by the West

that's why supporting Russia is anti-war

you know it's a cliche to say things are

orwellian

um but I have to admit I struggled to

come up with a better term for your

nostrum all right well supporting

Russia's war effort is objectively

anti-war I mean that's just amazing I

mean I hope people listening have enough

just basic

of objectivity or impartiality and just

their mode of thinking that they can

realize how just bizarrely oxymoronix

that is

so after listening to this for 45

minutes I think I can definitively

conclude

that what you have going on here is a

clay case of anglo-box jibber jabber

coming from Michael Tracy and it's

really a semantical debate he finds it

objectionable that one can be anti-war

while at the same time supporting a

specific combatant in a war and to that

end I would say that Michael Tracy

should study dialectics

and

I'm sure this Anglo box he's caved

himself in

has caused him a certain level of

anguish

uh in other regards right I don't this

couldn't possibly be the only thing that

is uh causing him so much stress and so

much anguish

it's really a silly fucking argument if

you ask me and I find it pathetic

uh it's just anglo-box jibber jabber

semantics I think the W clearly goes to

Jackson even by default even even

according to the Ridiculousness of the

premises by which the debate is

happening but this debate has inspired

me okay

I am now inspired by this fucking debate

and I want to tell you guys something I

want to debate

Ben Burgess

speak of the devil I have something to

show you and uh something to respond to

as well

it's Lavoy Zizek on Ben burgess's show

also talking about

the war

um and I want to show that to you

right now

it's always been a bit difficult on uh

this platform

oh we got it

all right

on Alexander Dugan

whoops what is this

do You Really Wanna Live Forever

forever

forever

I wanna be forever young all right let's

do it watch it

I want to debate Ben Burgess I don't

know if I've said this before

but I want it to happen I want to debate

him how do I make it happen I don't know

Ben Burgess is someone I want to debate

period

you know what is my fear that Ukraine

survives

more or less intact okay maybe some

compromises but becomes together with

Poland and Hungary although now they

have best relations with Hungary part of

this let's call it Champion Eastern

Europe

against uh LGBT against those liberal

values for which nonetheless we should

fact you know this is for me a big a big

big well I did say I mean because

because I think that a lot of times you

know in the in the west you know we um

uh talk about Russia

wait why do we have to go hungry we have

to go all right I wanna can I I'm gonna

do one last thing okay okay I have to

react to one last thing all right guys

you know who to blame

you guys know who to blame

you guys know who to blame don't blame

me but we're gonna continue but we're

not gonna watch the whole thing I just

wanna react to the end and respond to

Zizek

uh because that's what I want right

but anyway I want to react to g-jack

right here

guys by the way

we go to bed early okay

and I wake up early so that means the

streams I'm trying to ease you guys into

um earlier streams

like tomorrow I want to stream at like 3

P.M okay

I intentionally delayed this because I

know it's going to be a shock to you

guys for me to start streaming early but

that's the new um that's the new thing

and I can't be streaming very late into

the night anymore you're hiding my hair

I'm not gonna I'm not hiding anything

she wants this okay she wants to take

over all right all right okay okay

all right

let's continue

it's not that he is authoritarian but

yeah you know my you don't agree with

them my secret authoritarian Tendencies

no and from that standpoint I'm worried

about people like doggy that

interventions really create chaos the

Russia his influence created is a

confused mixture of or oligarchs and

Warlords and so on which also have each

of them has his or her own truth

the tragedy is no and from that

standpoint I'm worried about people they

are the good guys they are the bad guys

or rights against the state that by

Williams have against my body you know

like like gather those people as far as

I'm concerned this is the Iran rock war

of you know of of of debates but what

interested me about it was that um was

was that you know do good in in arguing

for this this kind of extreme

reactionary sort of semi-fascist view of

like he actually said at one point um

that uh individuals don't have any more

rights against the state than my limbs

half against my body you know like like

just just insane shit like this

why is this inherently fascist because

this uh political individualism is

fiercely rejected by communism as well I

don't see what's inherent actually

fascism is different fascism

uh for in fascism the state is for the

individual will it's an expression of

individual will read Giovanni Gentiles

so this is a stupid argument by the

obese spenbergus let's continue

they haven't argument for that uh he

didn't do it by saying like uh oh uh

this is all laid out by God or something

like that what he actually did was he

said uh if you just openly embraced uh

postmodern relativism and said like uh

oh well look you have your Western

values that's fine for you you can have

those right you know we have our Russian

values and it was just blatantly this um

what's the problem so this is uh

immediately gonna be a straw managing

response to but Dugan does not subscribe

to a form of relativism

it's actually something more hegelian

that the Zizek if he was smart would

would be able to understand pretty well

Dugan doesn't think that truth is

relative he just thinks that truth is

determinate which means that the

universal truth of humanity takes

different particular forms and that the

only way to unite the commonality of

humanity and the commonality of

creation is through disparate and

particular civilizations uniting the

universal with the particular which is

also a pretty hegelian standpoint that

Dugan has when it comes to that which

I'm not sure why Zizek uh is not smart

enough to see or respond to

but

Dugan doesn't use a post-modern

relativism he tries to when he is

talking to the journalist I think Ben

Burgess is referring to say that we have

our own special Russian truth to

translate

his point into the perspective he's

basically just trying to say we have a

fundamentally different civilization

uh the Russian one and westerners

cannot understand the Russian

perspective the uniquely Russian

perspective the point isn't that truth

is relative

there

the fact of Russian civilization is not

a relative fact

the fact of differences between peoples

is not a relative fact it's a fact that

different peoples need to respect

between each other

that's not the same as the postmodern

view that there is no Truth at all

I know he is

self-inconsistent and treating here

because he says this this approach

modern cultural relativism but when he

says and he also speaks now this

language the West is the domain of

Saturn it has to be not only denacified

but the demonized and so on is this only

his harassment you know he speaks as if

he is

at a universal position where he says we

are the good guys they are the bad guys

yes but the problem Zizek is that

he does speak at a certain Universal

level but

this is not inconsistent because he's

not a postmodern relativist Dugan can

recognize actually that the West

universalism is a form of Satanism

because it is civilizationally genocidal

it rejects every determinate form of

humanity in favor of pure abstractionism

and pure negation which he identifies

with the satanism

you don't have to assume an abstractly

Universal perspective to recognize that

and Iranian can recognize this person

wants to exterminate me a Russian can

recognize these westerners want to

exterminate me a Chinese can recognize

this person wants to exterminate me now

for Dugan

this is satanism

especially within the vernacular of

Christian civilization right but it's

also an evil for the Chinese it's an

evil for the Iranians it's an evil for

others too because of the specific

relationship it has to their own

civilizations as pure negation of course

it's like that it's not because

Dugan is forwarding a multi-polar sorry

a unipolar perspective it's just that

unipolarity exerts the same destructive

tendency to all different determinate

forms of mankind that's why mankind can

come together and recognize the Satanism

of the West despite their own

differences between each other because

it's the West which is uniquely defined

by the intention to exterminate and

destroy all determinate forms of

humanity and being so Zizek that's why

you're wrong

it's not that he is authoritarian but

you know my you don't agree with them my

secret authoritarian Tendencies no and

from that standpoint I'm worried about

people like dogging their interventions

really create chaos the Russia his

influence created is a confused

his influence didn't create anything

this is such a stupid baseless thing for

GG to say it may be reflected but didn't

create

mixture of oligarchs and Warlords and so

on which also have each of them has his

or her own truth

is the tragedy is that rasa itself which

this is uh yeah but

oligarchs oligarchs as a class of course

were undercut by the initiative by Putin

so I think this is a stupid perspective

actually

when you can you can why in the west you

have different corporations and Disney

is a I mean yes in the in Russia you

don't have a complete Unity between

State and Civil Society because of the

oligarchical whatever but that's exactly

what is undercut by Putin's special

military operation

it's one Russia not many Russia's one

Russia right

okay a model of Putin once indicated

this I almost sympathized with both in

almost when he says look at Russia we

are multinational we have Jews Muslims

Buddhists whatever and we try to propose

the same well

well if they all expect just some basic

constitutional values they can all exist

together this is the future of Russia I

think if he were to

mean it thoroughly but unfortunately

again then all these Orthodox uh

Orthodox fanaticism enters the game and

so on and so on

okay well what Orthodox fanaticism

I'm curious because uh Russian Orthodoxy

also contains a universalizing mission

not just to impose the religion on

anyone but an understanding of a shared

and common mankind that is tolerant of

differences especially when it comes to

ethnicities not maybe not tolerance

isn't a good word but can integrate

differences right anyway guys that's

what I wanted to respond to

and uh react to

um

but I'll see you guys tomorrow for a

much longer stream and a much earlier

stream so get ready for the early

streams guys because they're coming